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votes for prisoners

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

so the UK government is going against the EU ruling in Strasbourg allowing convicts to vote. What are your _iews?

Do those convicted of crimes deserve a vote? If not why not. Also what about those found guilty of crimes yet do not receive a custodial sentence - is it right they get to vote whilst their fellow cons don't? ( NB - those on remand and therefore non yet found guilty are still allowed a vote)

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

I think they should. They are still part of the UK, rather have them than those living/working abroad and not paying taxes

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By *U1966Man
over a year ago

Devon

One of the rights denied while in prison long may it continue not much of a deterrent is it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think they should. They are still part of the UK, rather have them than those living/working abroad and not paying taxes"

That's a good point. Do prisoners pay taxes whilst imprisoned?

Is prison for punishment or rehabilitation? If it's the latter then they should probably have the choice. If it's the former... I dunno

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

I think they should be able to vote...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"One of the rights denied while in prison long may it continue not much of a deterrent is it"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Nope.

Prison is pathetic in this country if you're the type of person who loafs around, likes to steal, likes to hurt others and basically doesn't give a shit.

Now those types can vote and make a fool of the system that they dont like? LOL!

Its like children being given a vote to either do maths or play Halo 4, hmm tough choice there!

No vote, prison should be the focus on either securing them away for life or making sure they can operate at a functional level for society.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

That's a good point. Do prisoners pay taxes whilst imprisoned?

Depends, they will still pay VAT on purchases from the prison canteen. Some will still be liable to pay council tax etc for their homes whilst at her majesty's pleasure tho I suspect most get this paid through benefits!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Being in prison IS the punishment....according to law. Its the withdrawal of your right to free movement/assembly/association. Whether that is enough of a punishment is another question entirely, so i would say yes....people should be accorded the right to vote whilst in prison. After all, it didnt stop Bobby Sands standing for Parliament whilst in jail, did it????

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A person forfeits all there rights the second they commit a crime therefore no they should not be allowed to vote.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"A person forfeits all there rights the second they commit a crime therefore no they should not be allowed to vote."

including the right to a fair trial

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

Anyone actually convicted should loose the right to vote. They will know this before they commit the crime so will have to take it as part of the punishment

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By *histler21Man
over a year ago

Ipswich

I'm just thinking how absurd it would be for prisoners convicted and in prison being allowed to vote for the Police and Crime Commissioners

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

This thread will be interesting reading...

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By *histler21Man
over a year ago

Ipswich


"A person forfeits all there rights the second they commit a crime therefore no they should not be allowed to vote.

including the right to a fair trial "

Are you saying that all convicted criminals have been denied a fair trial?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I'm just thinking how absurd it would be for prisoners convicted and in prison being allowed to vote for the Police and Crime Commissioners "

might get a better turn out!

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By *eneral HysteriaMan
over a year ago

Newcastle

I don't think they should get the right to vote.

They give up access to this right when they commit the crime.

Too many soft touches in the UK.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If your found guilty and imprisoned or not in some cases you should lose your right to vote. Has anyone considered the cost implications too if re were to introduce voting for convicted people. Democratic services are complicated and costly as they currently are without introducing further complications. Unfortunately if you committ an offence that results in conviction that is one of the privileges you lose. All for rehabilitation and reeducating people in prison, maybe then they relise the errors of their ways.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"A person forfeits all there rights the second they commit a crime therefore no they should not be allowed to vote."

so a 'prisoner' with mental health problems..

and the prisons are rammed with them btw..

commits a crime, gets banged up and should have 'no rights'..?

are you serious?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Now I can't back this up with any sort of statistics but I would pretty much put my shirt on it that about 90-95% of those in prison have never voted and if they were at liberty they wouldnt bother their arses voting but you can also bet your shirt that they'll moan about not getting a vote... Mainly because they hope they'll not get it then can sue for compensation.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"A person forfeits all there rights the second they commit a crime therefore no they should not be allowed to vote.

including the right to a fair trial

Are you saying that all convicted criminals have been denied a fair trial?"

no i'm saying the SECOND you commit a crime you do not forfeit your rights, you still have to go through the judicial process, the right to representation, a fair impartial trial and basic human rights. The EU has stated the vote as a human right

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm in the "No" camp

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"If your found guilty and imprisoned or not in some cases you should lose your right to vote. Has anyone considered the cost implications too if re were to introduce voting for convicted people. Democratic services are complicated and costly as they currently are without introducing further complications. Unfortunately if you committ an offence that results in conviction that is one of the privileges you lose. All for rehabilitation and reeducating people in prison, maybe then they relise the errors of their ways."

probably be cheaper tbh, they could act as the 'officials' and the vote would be done during breakfast or something..

certainly be quicker than an all day polling station perhaps..

if your all for rehabilitation, what message do you give to someone due to be released when an election takes place..

ok chum, we want you to be a good member of society etc but your not voting today for the elected representatives who will be in power next week when your out?

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"Now I can't back this up with any sort of statistics but I would pretty much put my shirt on it that about 90-95% of those in prison have never voted and if they were at liberty they wouldnt bother their arses voting but you can also bet your shirt that they'll moan about not getting a vote... Mainly because they hope they'll not get it then can sue for compensation."

in other words you have no idea of the percentage you have made up to justify your position..

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By *teveanddebsCouple
over a year ago

Norwich

If they can get to the polling station they should be allowed to vote.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Now I can't back this up with any sort of statistics but I would pretty much put my shirt on it that about 90-95% of those in prison have never voted and if they were at liberty they wouldnt bother their arses voting but you can also bet your shirt that they'll moan about not getting a vote... Mainly because they hope they'll not get it then can sue for compensation.

in other words you have no idea of the percentage you have made up to justify your position..

"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

if they do give them the right to vote i can see some very strange polices coming out from partys who want in power or want to stay in power i can see it now vote for party A and get a cushy time in side. vote for party B and get a harder centance i wounder who the prisoners will vote for ?

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"if they do give them the right to vote i can see some very strange polices coming out from partys who want in power or want to stay in power i can see it now vote for party A and get a cushy time in side. vote for party B and get a harder centance i wounder who the prisoners will vote for ?"

think the uk prison 'population' is 80- 90k, they could prevent local candidates to each prison getting on that bandwagon by their votes being proxy to their home address..

any NFA could be local..

dont think their numbers will sway any party, may even make joe public get off their own arses..

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By *ucsparkMan
over a year ago

dudley


"A person forfeits all there rights the second they commit a crime therefore no they should not be allowed to vote.

including the right to a fair trial

Are you saying that all convicted criminals have been denied a fair trial?

no i'm saying the SECOND you commit a crime you do not forfeit your rights, you still have to go through the judicial process, the right to representation, a fair impartial trial and basic human rights. The EU has stated the vote as a human right "

It's great how the EU state that it is a human right, they have not got a clue. Voting is a privaledge that people fought for hundreds of years for us to have. The EU courts seem more concerned with guilty rights and not that of the masses that obey the laws

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Now I can't back this up with any sort of statistics but I would pretty much put my shirt on it that about 90-95% of those in prison have never voted and if they were at liberty they wouldnt bother their arses voting but you can also bet your shirt that they'll moan about not getting a vote... Mainly because they hope they'll not get it then can sue for compensation.

in other words you have no idea of the percentage you have made up to justify your position..

"

Yes... Isnt that exactly what I said at the start of my post? I do have a lot of experience in the criminal justice system though and the vast vast majority of the many people I've come across wouldn't get out of their beds to vote.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"A person forfeits all there rights the second they commit a crime therefore no they should not be allowed to vote.

including the right to a fair trial

Are you saying that all convicted criminals have been denied a fair trial?

no i'm saying the SECOND you commit a crime you do not forfeit your rights, you still have to go through the judicial process, the right to representation, a fair impartial trial and basic human rights. The EU has stated the vote as a human right

It's great how the EU state that it is a human right, they have not got a clue. Voting is a privaledge that people fought for hundreds of years for us to have. The EU courts seem more concerned with guilty rights and not that of the masses that obey the laws"

the EU also stated it was a human right not to have to slop out in jails, whih the UK then disregarded. this was only overturned once numerous prisoners won their cases at the appeal court and subseqeuntly HM government had to pay out hundreds of thousands in compensation. It could be VERY costly to the taxpayer if Britain was again to think it knew best

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 18/11/12 15:41:41]

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By *ucsparkMan
over a year ago

dudley


"A person forfeits all there rights the second they commit a crime therefore no they should not be allowed to vote.

including the right to a fair trial

Are you saying that all convicted criminals have been denied a fair trial?

no i'm saying the SECOND you commit a crime you do not forfeit your rights, you still have to go through the judicial process, the right to representation, a fair impartial trial and basic human rights. The EU has stated the vote as a human right

It's great how the EU state that it is a human right, they have not got a clue. Voting is a privaledge that people fought for hundreds of years for us to have. The EU courts seem more concerned with guilty rights and not that of the masses that obey the laws

the EU also stated it was a human right not to have to slop out in jails, whih the UK then disregarded. this was only overturned once numerous prisoners won their cases at the appeal court and subseqeuntly HM government had to pay out hundreds of thousands in compensation. It could be VERY costly to the taxpayer if Britain was again to think it knew best"

Quite easy drop out of HRC then their human rights are our concern not theirs

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

This isn't really about votes for prisoners. It's about Cameron kow-towing to the stormtroopers on the enemy benches behind him. Some of them, mostly from the hang-em and flog-em brigade are worried a thousand or so prisoners could effect the outcome of an election.

Perhaps the answer is to allow prisoners the vote (that'd appease Europe) but give them a postal vote in the constituency they were living in at the time of arrest or where they were arrested if of no fixed abode (that'd spread the risk to individual constituency members).

Being in the EU is a bit like being in a club. You don't get to pick and choose which rules you abide by.

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By *ucky_LadsCouple (MM)
over a year ago

Kidderminster+ surrounding areas.


"

Perhaps the answer is to allow prisoners the vote (that'd appease Europe) but give them a postal vote in the constituency they were living in at the time of arrest or where they were arrested if of no fixed abode (that'd spread the risk to individual constituency members).

Being in the EU is a bit like being in a club. You don't get to pick and choose which rules you abide by."

but the french,germans and one or two other countries appear to pick which EU Laws/directives they wish to obey and not to obey but those silly old duffers called judges cave into the EU at every point costing us millions in compensation.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have a mate half way through a 12 yr sentence. The last thing on his mind is weather he can vote or not

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"

Perhaps the answer is to allow prisoners the vote (that'd appease Europe) but give them a postal vote in the constituency they were living in at the time of arrest or where they were arrested if of no fixed abode (that'd spread the risk to individual constituency members).

Being in the EU is a bit like being in a club. You don't get to pick and choose which rules you abide by.

but the french,germans and one or two other countries appear to pick which EU Laws/directives they wish to obey and not to obey but those silly old duffers called judges cave into the EU at every point costing us millions in compensation. "

Two rights ........., etc. Others may choose not to play by the rules - that's not the sort of country I'd wish to live in.

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By *ctavius StuntMan
over a year ago

london

This is a very interesting topic. Yes people in prison are all bad and good for nothing seems to be the populace _iew. But i wonder how many people are aware of what sort of people make up the prison population. Home office own stats show clearly that the vast majority of persistant offenders were victims as children of severe and chronic sexual, physical, psychological abuse and neglect. They also show the vast majority have severe mental health disorders either diagnosed or not. I find this very interesting because of the schizophrenic nature of the british public, who on the one hand are outraged by childhood abuse and have total sympathy for its victims and then its lack of understanding of what happens to those victims when they do not receive the help they should when they are children, or even in later life as adults. For those who dont know what prison actually consists of it has 3 elements. Retribution and deterrent and rehibilitation. Of course if you commit a criime there should be a punishment no matter what your circumstances or history. But if you want a fall in crime and a smaller prison population the issue of abuse needs to be accepted and faced up to by the public and politicians. Voting is a moot point in all this being used for political porpoises and to find a way out of the EU treaty on human rights.

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!


"I have a mate half way through a 12 yr sentence. The last thing on his mind is weather he can vote or not "

What's he in for? And don't say 'he got caught'....

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By *ady4ladyWoman
over a year ago

liverpool


"This is a very interesting topic. Yes people in prison are all bad and good for nothing seems to be the populace _iew. But i wonder how many people are aware of what sort of people make up the prison population. Home office own stats show clearly that the vast majority of persistant offenders were victims as children of severe and chronic sexual, physical, psychological abuse and neglect. They also show the vast majority have severe mental health disorders either diagnosed or not. I find this very interesting because of the schizophrenic nature of the british public, who on the one hand are outraged by childhood abuse and have total sympathy for its victims and then its lack of understanding of what happens to those victims when they do not receive the help they should when they are children, or even in later life as adults. For those who dont know what prison actually consists of it has 3 elements. Retribution and deterrent and rehibilitation. Of course if you commit a criime there should be a punishment no matter what your circumstances or history. But if you want a fall in crime and a smaller prison population the issue of abuse needs to be accepted and faced up to by the public and politicians. Voting is a moot point in all this being used for political porpoises and to find a way out of the EU treaty on human rights."

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"I have a mate half way through a 12 yr sentence. The last thing on his mind is weather he can vote or not

What's he in for? And don't say 'he got caught'...."

And why hasn't he been released after serving half his tariff?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"A person forfeits all there rights the second they commit a crime therefore no they should not be allowed to vote.

so a 'prisoner' with mental health problems..

and the prisons are rammed with them btw..

commits a crime, gets banged up and should have 'no rights'..?

are you serious?

"

yes why should anyone that commits a crime and is proven guilty have a right to vote goes to show how soft this country has become not just the powers that be put the people that call themselves english or brittish, its a fact that when prison used to be prison the majority learned there lesson and didnt reoffend.

At the end of the day they are in prison for a reason they shouldnt have any rights until they have proven they are remorseful for what they did, have served there time and been released and have shown they are rehabilitated.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think they should. They are still part of the UK, rather have them than those living/working abroad and not paying taxes

That's a good point. Do prisoners pay taxes whilst imprisoned?

Is prison for punishment or rehabilitation? If it's the latter then they should probably have the choice. If it's the former... I dunno "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"A person forfeits all there rights the second they commit a crime therefore no they should not be allowed to vote."

They forfit their rights when they are CONVICTED of a crime. Many criminals life a lifetime of crime and are never caught and they are still a part of the community in which they operate, and that includes voting.

If caught, and sent to jail, then no, prisoners should not be allowed to vote. They decided to step outside of the laws by which the majority live so they should also relinquish any right to have a say in how the community elects it's officials.

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By *john121Man
over a year ago

staffs

[Removed by poster at 19/11/12 01:27:30]

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By *john121Man
over a year ago

staffs

If you decide to live outside of the rules and commit crimes that the rest of us to the best of our ability abide by then you forfeit all rights...

Once you've served your sentence and wish to live like everyone else and be reintegrated back into decent society then welcome back.

Pretty simple

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I would not vote for a prisoner

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By *teveanddebsCouple
over a year ago

Norwich


"

Two rights ........., etc. Others may choose not to play by the rules - that's not the sort of country I'd wish to live in."

But you don't mind being ruled by them?

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By *inktherapyCouple
over a year ago

Gloucester

I don't believe that they should have the vote. They've chosen to commit an offence and have been found guilty of it. Am not sure why they should get a say in the running of the country

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

Being convicted and sentenced to imprisonment is the punishment for the crime, of course they should have the right to vote, particularly if their sentence is due to be served out during the term of the government.

As far as prisoners not being tax payers, what about the non tax payers on the outside?.....do we deny them the right to vote as well?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sitting on the fence till I know more

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

on the 'dont pay tax dont vote', what about non domiciled folk (often to avoid tax)..

they can pop home to vote then scuttle off to their tax exile..

system is not perfect..

being in jail and the loss of liberty IS the 'punishment'..

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By *kin BohnerMan
over a year ago

derby

To my mind if you step outside the law and your actions warrant a custodial sentence then you have voluntarily given up certain rights. Voting is one of them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"To my mind if you step outside the law and your actions warrant a custodial sentence then you have voluntarily given up certain rights. Voting is one of them. "

i cant even believe this is up for debate. no of course they shouldnt

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Dangerous offenders should be imprisoned but for the most part prison doesn't work. It's expensive and largely a waste of time.

It provides no deterrent and is not regarded by prisoners or the law abiding majority as a suitable punishment. There are far better ways for offenders to repay their local communities.

I'd be surprised if most of those currently imprisoned are particularly interested in voting and to be honest given the current selection of candidates, neither am I.

Prison is supposed to be both punishment and rehabilitation. I think the balance should be on the latter given that most of these people are going to rejoin society at some point. For me, therefore, these people should probably be allowed to vote if it's logistically possible - i.e. they're on home leave or in open prison conditions. I'm not sure we should set up expensive facilities inside prison walls though.

And as for the usual idiots who suggest prison's aren't tough enough ..in fact I can't even be bothered to address such ignorant nonsense.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"so the UK government is going against the EU ruling in Strasbourg allowing convicts to vote. What are your _iews?

Do those convicted of crimes deserve a vote? If not why not. Also what about those found guilty of crimes yet do not receive a custodial sentence - is it right they get to vote whilst their fellow cons don't? ( NB - those on remand and therefore non yet found guilty are still allowed a vote)"

OH ..and for god's sake man - put that cock away

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"so the UK government is going against the EU ruling in Strasbourg allowing convicts to vote. What are your _iews?

Do those convicted of crimes deserve a vote? If not why not. Also what about those found guilty of crimes yet do not receive a custodial sentence - is it right they get to vote whilst their fellow cons don't? ( NB - those on remand and therefore non yet found guilty are still allowed a vote)"

I was wondering what all the ball and chains were doing outside our polling station last week

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Be wanting to give them bloody holidays with pay next

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By *john121Man
over a year ago

staffs


"on the 'dont pay tax dont vote', what about non domiciled folk (often to avoid tax)..

they can pop home to vote then scuttle off to their tax exile..

system is not perfect..

being in jail and the loss of liberty IS the 'punishment'..

"

its not as far as i'm aware a criminal offence requiring a prison sentence

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By *obandruthCouple
over a year ago

wolverhampton

well if you give them the vote they could vote there self out of jail

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just wonder how many people who think prisoners should have a vote, would be in favour of giving convicted criminals £30,000 grand a year each to stay out of trouble instead of banging them up…..,,,,

After-all The Ministry of Justice estimates it costs £40,000 per year to keep a prisoner. So it makes financial sence,,,, dun'it eh!

Hey,,,, Then perhaps we give all money save the poor people who’ve been victims of crime…

Simple init... and becuase the criminals will be free, they'll be able to vote too....so everyone is a winner !

Yeah-yeah…. I’m being silly….

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

sense*...... because* sheez,,,, I keep getting my wucking murds fuddled

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By *ctavius StuntMan
over a year ago

london

true story, a very sweet pretty slightly shy young girl ran away from home at 14. Her father had been beating her and sexually abusing her from the age of 5. She was frightened on the streets but it was better than being at home. she had no money and was hungry and thirsty so started shoplifting from tescos. She met some other kids who had all run from similar situations.they let her stay in a squat with them. they drank and took drugs. she started drinking to, it helped numb the pain she felt from the abuse and beatings and from not being loved. By 16 she was on harder drugs and now stole more. She gets caught and sent to prison. Should she get a vote ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

most people commit crimes everyday, ie speeding

what i would want to know is which constituency they would vote in.........the one their jail is in which could have a huge impact or the one of their last fixed abode which would have little impact

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

@m_o lol why dont you try to explain the way in which prison is tough enough to punish those who decide to break the law, prison is not prison anymore they are not punished they are simply kept away from the normal public and have more than some people on the outside, ie, sky tv, dvd players, playstations, pool tables, dartboards and the like that is not prison.

Look at ian huntly the horrific crimes he committed and he gets attacked in prison and instead of been left to go through the pain which by the way is nothing to what the familys went and still do go through he gets a police escort to sunderland royal and a and e closed the public for 45 mins while that scum gets treatment he doesnt deserve.

He should have been left to rot in pain and hopefully die slowly instead of wasting our money and resources on him. So would you like to explain he has any right to vote on what happens in this country.

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By *eminiman61Man
over a year ago

mansfield

I think they should have the right to vote. Not everyone in prison is a scumbag. Some people are innocent some were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. As said above some wouldnt vote on the out or banged up. Some are on remand etc etc

How many people went to prison because they went to a football match or got framed?

The SAS guys in prison so were the Krays etc etc..... When these people write books or have businesses dont they pay tax?

Ali almost went to prison for not wanting to goto war..... Did this make him a criminal.

Theres lots of people that do wrongdoings and never get caught or jailed because of highflyer lawyers/solicitors or baristors..... Or backhanded bribes etc etc

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By *ctavius StuntMan
over a year ago

london

the punishment element of being in prison is your loss of liberty. You seem to advocate for a society with lawless anarchy where those who feel wronged can take revenge.
"@m_o lol why dont you try to explain the way in which prison is tough enough to punish those who decide to break the law, prison is not prison anymore they are not punished they are simply kept away from the normal public and have more than some people on the outside, ie, sky tv, dvd players, playstations, pool tables, dartboards and the like that is not prison.

Look at ian huntly the horrific crimes he committed and he gets attacked in prison and instead of been left to go through the pain which by the way is nothing to what the familys went and still do go through he gets a police escort to sunderland royal and a and e closed the public for 45 mins while that scum gets treatment he doesnt deserve.

He should have been left to rot in pain and hopefully die slowly instead of wasting our money and resources on him. So would you like to explain he has any right to vote on what happens in this country."

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By *eminiman61Man
over a year ago

mansfield

True alot of prisons are cushy..... They lose there liberty sometimes this is enough...... Most people that say prisons cushy...... Have never been......

Societies created this cushy system like the dole/social security farce...... Sometimes it doeesnt pay to get a job...... Some people have kids and get rent etc paid for and in some cases theyre better off than some workers

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

Not everyone that ends up in prison are scum of the earth.. Some end up because of a situation they are in at the time.. Some are due to being in abusive relationships etc..

Yes I think that prisoners should be allowed to vote... Yes you commit a crime you get caught and the JS gives you your sentence... you do the time and for the rest of your life you are stigmistised at being an ex offender.. Some go on to be everyday members of society...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think prisoners that are studying or working inside should be allowed to vote as they are at least doing something positive and are more likely to contribute to society when they get out.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon


"True alot of prisons are cushy..... They lose there liberty sometimes this is enough...... Most people that say prisons cushy...... Have never been......

Societies created this cushy system like the dole/social security farce...... Sometimes it doeesnt pay to get a job...... Some people have kids and get rent etc paid for and in some cases theyre better off than some workers "

Prisons are far from cushy the proper victorian prisons such as pentonville, holloway and various others are just about standing... Yes some newly build prisons offer TV,xbox etc but you have to earn that.. you do anything wrong and it gets taken away from you... life behind bars aint cushy to say the least..

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By *ctavius StuntMan
over a year ago

london

Nelson mandela was a prisoner should he have had a vote ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In theory yes because Mandela should not have been in Prison anyway.

Should Abu Hamza and Ian Huntley be able to vote?

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay


"In theory yes because Mandela should not have been in Prison anyway.

Should Abu Hamza and Ian Huntley be able to vote?"

Nelson Mandela co-formed the armed wing of the ANC, and was involved in the planning of many bombings in South Africa for several years, some of these bombings killed innocent civilians....so WHY should he have not been imprisoned?

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By *ctavius StuntMan
over a year ago

london


"In theory yes because Mandela should not have been in Prison anyway.

Should Abu Hamza and Ian Huntley be able to vote?"
well mandela was called a terrorist by thatcher.Personally i think if you are a british citizen you should have the right to vote whoever you are. Though i do not advocate our political system and i encourage people not to vote at all. The funny thing about human rights is they dont really exist a bit like our so called democracy. Often when people need their human rights they are taken away, so they arent really rights at all, more like privellages.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If a compulsory a referendum (including all prisoners) was held in this country to establish a majority _iew whether convicted prisoners should have a vote or not…

I suspect,,,, the majority of criminals would vote in favour and I suspect the majority of the general public would vote against it…

That’s just my own opinion as irrelevant as it my seem amongst the litter of tangential anecdotes that seem to be peppering this thread attempting defend the rights of genuine criminals….

Or perhaps we could just save everyone a heap of time and ask the very victims of crime to decide by ticking a "yes or no" box that either allows or disallows the actual criminal who violated their rights the option to vote whilst serving a term of punishment…

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"In theory yes because Mandela should not have been in Prison anyway.

Should Abu Hamza and Ian Huntley be able to vote?

Nelson Mandela co-formed the armed wing of the ANC, and was involved in the planning of many bombings in South Africa for several years, some of these bombings killed innocent civilians....so WHY should he have not been imprisoned?

At that time South Africa had many problems if Mandela should have been in Prison so should everybody else involved in the government and legal process.

"

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By *unky monkeyMan
over a year ago

in the night garden

If you chose to break the laws of a society, you are removed from that society and you lose the privileges that came with co-existing in that society i.e. you go to prison.

When they return to society they can vote again, until then FUCK OFF!

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By *ctavius StuntMan
over a year ago

london


"If you chose to break the laws of a society, you are removed from that society and you lose the privileges that came with co-existing in that society i.e. you go to prison.

When they return to society they can vote again, until then FUCK OFF!

"
This is a very interesting topic. Yes people in prison are all bad and good for nothing seems to be the populace _iew. But i wonder how many people are aware of what sort of people make up the prison population. Home office own stats show clearly that the vast majority of persistant offenders were victims as children of severe and chronic sexual, physical, psychological abuse and neglect. They also show the vast majority have severe mental health disorders either diagnosed or not. I find this very interesting because of the schizophrenic nature of the british public, who on the one hand are outraged by childhood abuse and have total sympathy for its victims and then its lack of understanding of what happens to those victims when they do not receive the help they should when they are children, or even in later life as adults. For those who dont know what prison actually consists of it has 3 elements. Retribution and deterrent and rehibilitation. Of course if you commit a criime there should be a punishment no matter what your circumstances or history. But if you want a fall in crime and a smaller prison population the issue of abuse needs to be accepted and faced up to by the public and politicians. Voting is a moot point in all this being used for political porpoises and to find a way out of the EU treaty on human rights.

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

The problem with this debate is that it gives people the impression the vote is worth anything. It gets people all steamed up, the idea that a prisoner might have the right to vote for one of three identical parties, just like the rest of us.

The vote is worthless in this 'democracy', who cares if they get it or not.

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By *unky monkeyMan
over a year ago

in the night garden


"If you chose to break the laws of a society, you are removed from that society and you lose the privileges that came with co-existing in that society i.e. you go to prison.

When they return to society they can vote again, until then FUCK OFF!

This is a very interesting topic. Yes people in prison are all bad and good for nothing seems to be the populace _iew. But i wonder how many people are aware of what sort of people make up the prison population. Home office own stats show clearly that the vast majority of persistant offenders were victims as children of severe and chronic sexual, physical, psychological abuse and neglect. They also show the vast majority have severe mental health disorders either diagnosed or not. I find this very interesting because of the schizophrenic nature of the british public, who on the one hand are outraged by childhood abuse and have total sympathy for its victims and then its lack of understanding of what happens to those victims when they do not receive the help they should when they are children, or even in later life as adults. For those who dont know what prison actually consists of it has 3 elements. Retribution and deterrent and rehibilitation. Of course if you commit a criime there should be a punishment no matter what your circumstances or history. But if you want a fall in crime and a smaller prison population the issue of abuse needs to be accepted and faced up to by the public and politicians. Voting is a moot point in all this being used for political porpoises and to find a way out of the EU treaty on human rights. "

Read back dude, I never once said prison inmates had to be bad people. I'm sure some are lovely. My point still stands.

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By *ctavius StuntMan
over a year ago

london


"If you chose to break the laws of a society, you are removed from that society and you lose the privileges that came with co-existing in that society i.e. you go to prison.

When they return to society they can vote again, until then FUCK OFF!

This is a very interesting topic. Yes people in prison are all bad and good for nothing seems to be the populace _iew. But i wonder how many people are aware of what sort of people make up the prison population. Home office own stats show clearly that the vast majority of persistant offenders were victims as children of severe and chronic sexual, physical, psychological abuse and neglect. They also show the vast majority have severe mental health disorders either diagnosed or not. I find this very interesting because of the schizophrenic nature of the british public, who on the one hand are outraged by childhood abuse and have total sympathy for its victims and then its lack of understanding of what happens to those victims when they do not receive the help they should when they are children, or even in later life as adults. For those who dont know what prison actually consists of it has 3 elements. Retribution and deterrent and rehibilitation. Of course if you commit a criime there should be a punishment no matter what your circumstances or history. But if you want a fall in crime and a smaller prison population the issue of abuse needs to be accepted and faced up to by the public and politicians. Voting is a moot point in all this being used for political porpoises and to find a way out of the EU treaty on human rights.

Read back dude, I never once said prison inmates had to be bad people. I'm sure some are lovely. My point still stands."
true story, a very sweet pretty slightly shy young girl ran away from home at 14. Her father had been beating her and sexually abusing her from the age of 5. She was frightened on the streets but it was better than being at home. she had no money and was hungry and thirsty so started shoplifting from tescos. She met some other kids who had all run from similar situations.they let her stay in a squat with them. they drank and took drugs. she started drinking to, it helped numb the pain she felt from the abuse and beatings and from not being loved. By 16 she was on harder drugs and now stole more. She gets caught and sent to prison. Should she get a vote ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think they should. They are still part of the UK, rather have them than those living/working abroad and not paying taxes

That's a good point. Do prisoners pay taxes whilst imprisoned?

Is prison for punishment or rehabilitation? If it's the latter then they should probably have the choice. If it's the former... I dunno "

They are supposedly there for rehabilitation. As far as the tax issue is concerned, people between 16 and eighteen pay taxes but don't get to vote.

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By *ctavius StuntMan
over a year ago

london


"The problem with this debate is that it gives people the impression the vote is worth anything. It gets people all steamed up, the idea that a prisoner might have the right to vote for one of three identical parties, just like the rest of us.

The vote is worthless in this 'democracy', who cares if they get it or not."
I know i find it hillarious that people think there vote means something. Its completely irrelevant as our political process was sold off to the banking elite and global corporations yonks ago and its them that call the shots not politicians

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If you chose to break the laws of a society, you are removed from that society and you lose the privileges that came with co-existing in that society i.e. you go to prison.

When they return to society they can vote again, until then FUCK OFF!

"

Using profane language in public is a criminal offence.

Personally I would enforce this law more rigorously because those of us who are more sensitive are fed up with hearing foul mouthing all the time. I would therefore prosecute you. But I wouldn't deny you the vote.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

I am stepping away from this thread and my keyboard....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If you chose to break the laws of a society, you are removed from that society and you lose the privileges that came with co-existing in that society i.e. you go to prison.

When they return to society they can vote again, until then FUCK OFF!

"

Funky - please don't beat around the bush and say what you mean man

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By *unky monkeyMan
over a year ago

in the night garden


"If you chose to break the laws of a society, you are removed from that society and you lose the privileges that came with co-existing in that society i.e. you go to prison.

When they return to society they can vote again, until then FUCK OFF!

This is a very interesting topic. Yes people in prison are all bad and good for nothing seems to be the populace _iew. But i wonder how many people are aware of what sort of people make up the prison population. Home office own stats show clearly that the vast majority of persistant offenders were victims as children of severe and chronic sexual, physical, psychological abuse and neglect. They also show the vast majority have severe mental health disorders either diagnosed or not. I find this very interesting because of the schizophrenic nature of the british public, who on the one hand are outraged by childhood abuse and have total sympathy for its victims and then its lack of understanding of what happens to those victims when they do not receive the help they should when they are children, or even in later life as adults. For those who dont know what prison actually consists of it has 3 elements. Retribution and deterrent and rehibilitation. Of course if you commit a criime there should be a punishment no matter what your circumstances or history. But if you want a fall in crime and a smaller prison population the issue of abuse needs to be accepted and faced up to by the public and politicians. Voting is a moot point in all this being used for political porpoises and to find a way out of the EU treaty on human rights.

Read back dude, I never once said prison inmates had to be bad people. I'm sure some are lovely. My point still stands.true story, a very sweet pretty slightly shy young girl ran away from home at 14. Her father had been beating her and sexually abusing her from the age of 5. She was frightened on the streets but it was better than being at home. she had no money and was hungry and thirsty so started shoplifting from tescos. She met some other kids who had all run from similar situations.they let her stay in a squat with them. they drank and took drugs. she started drinking to, it helped numb the pain she felt from the abuse and beatings and from not being loved. By 16 she was on harder drugs and now stole more. She gets caught and sent to prison. Should she get a vote ?"

No, she broke the law and got put in jail. She is temporarily not part of society and therefore should not be allowed to vote on what happens in that society.

I would however question should she be in a prison in the first place.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If a compulsory a referendum (including all prisoners) was held in this country to establish a majority _iew whether convicted prisoners should have a vote or not…

I suspect,,,, the majority of criminals would vote in favour and I suspect the majority of the general public would vote against it…

That’s just my own opinion as irrelevant as it my seem amongst the litter of tangential anecdotes that seem to be peppering this thread attempting defend the rights of genuine criminals….

Or perhaps we could just save everyone a heap of time and ask the very victims of crime to decide by ticking a "yes or no" box that either allows or disallows the actual criminal who violated their rights the option to vote whilst serving a term of punishment…

"

But an uninformed opinion as you have no access to any statistics.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We can all quote an exceptional case of prisoners wrongly convicted but the vast majority of convicted people in jail ARE guilty.

Why should you have a say in society when you have no respect for it's rules?

The biggest deterrent might be to get the straight guys to go in the shower with Bubba who's hung like the OP ...

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By *unky monkeyMan
over a year ago

in the night garden


"If you chose to break the laws of a society, you are removed from that society and you lose the privileges that came with co-existing in that society i.e. you go to prison.

When they return to society they can vote again, until then FUCK OFF!

Using profane language in public is a criminal offence.

Personally I would enforce this law more rigorously because those of us who are more sensitive are fed up with hearing foul mouthing all the time. I would therefore prosecute you. But I wouldn't deny you the vote."

Are you flirting with me? Can't be sure.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If a compulsory a referendum (including all prisoners) was held in this country to establish a majority _iew whether convicted prisoners should have a vote or not…

I suspect,,,, the majority of criminals would vote in favour and I suspect the majority of the general public would vote against it…

That’s just my own opinion as irrelevant as it my seem amongst the litter of tangential anecdotes that seem to be peppering this thread attempting defend the rights of genuine criminals….

Or perhaps we could just save everyone a heap of time and ask the very victims of crime to decide by ticking a "yes or no" box that either allows or disallows the actual criminal who violated their rights the option to vote whilst serving a term of punishment…

But an uninformed opinion as you have no access to any statistics."

Yeah,,,, pfft.... OMG.... and there was me thinking everyone would agree with me... sheeeez........

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By *unky monkeyMan
over a year ago

in the night garden


"If you chose to break the laws of a society, you are removed from that society and you lose the privileges that came with co-existing in that society i.e. you go to prison.

When they return to society they can vote again, until then FUCK OFF!

Funky - please don't beat around the bush and say what you mean man "

Oh shush! I was bored and wanted some fun

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By *ctavius StuntMan
over a year ago

london


"If you chose to break the laws of a society, you are removed from that society and you lose the privileges that came with co-existing in that society i.e. you go to prison.

When they return to society they can vote again, until then FUCK OFF!

This is a very interesting topic. Yes people in prison are all bad and good for nothing seems to be the populace _iew. But i wonder how many people are aware of what sort of people make up the prison population. Home office own stats show clearly that the vast majority of persistant offenders were victims as children of severe and chronic sexual, physical, psychological abuse and neglect. They also show the vast majority have severe mental health disorders either diagnosed or not. I find this very interesting because of the schizophrenic nature of the british public, who on the one hand are outraged by childhood abuse and have total sympathy for its victims and then its lack of understanding of what happens to those victims when they do not receive the help they should when they are children, or even in later life as adults. For those who dont know what prison actually consists of it has 3 elements. Retribution and deterrent and rehibilitation. Of course if you commit a criime there should be a punishment no matter what your circumstances or history. But if you want a fall in crime and a smaller prison population the issue of abuse needs to be accepted and faced up to by the public and politicians. Voting is a moot point in all this being used for political porpoises and to find a way out of the EU treaty on human rights.

Read back dude, I never once said prison inmates had to be bad people. I'm sure some are lovely. My point still stands.true story, a very sweet pretty slightly shy young girl ran away from home at 14. Her father had been beating her and sexually abusing her from the age of 5. She was frightened on the streets but it was better than being at home. she had no money and was hungry and thirsty so started shoplifting from tescos. She met some other kids who had all run from similar situations.they let her stay in a squat with them. they drank and took drugs. she started drinking to, it helped numb the pain she felt from the abuse and beatings and from not being loved. By 16 she was on harder drugs and now stole more. She gets caught and sent to prison. Should she get a vote ?

No, she broke the law and got put in jail. She is temporarily not part of society and therefore should not be allowed to vote on what happens in that society.

I would however question should she be in a prison in the first place."
unfortunatly the vast majority of people in prison have been victims of serious abuse as children and offending behaviour is often a symptom of abuse. prisons are nothing more than dumping grounds for abused or mentally ill people who have been victims of horrendous crimes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If you chose to break the laws of a society, you are removed from that society and you lose the privileges that came with co-existing in that society i.e. you go to prison.

When they return to society they can vote again, until then FUCK OFF!

Using profane language in public is a criminal offence.

Personally I would enforce this law more rigorously because those of us who are more sensitive are fed up with hearing foul mouthing all the time. I would therefore prosecute you. But I wouldn't deny you the vote.

Are you flirting with me? Can't be sure. "

As you have used profane language in this thread I think it likely that you have used profane language in public, which is a criminal offence. As you have committed a criminal offence, by your reasoning, you should not be allowed to vote.

I personally would allow you to vote despite this. But only if you could show that you understood the issues, and like many people, I would apply this to all people. Don't know the difference between social market capitalism and free market capitalism? Then you can't vote. Don't know who Keynes and Friedman were never mind what they advocated? Then you can't vote. Can't sum up the differences between a social democrat and a libertarian? Then you can't vote.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"In theory yes because Mandela should not have been in Prison anyway.

Should Abu Hamza and Ian Huntley be able to vote?

Nelson Mandela co-formed the armed wing of the ANC, and was involved in the planning of many bombings in South Africa for several years, some of these bombings killed innocent civilians....so WHY should he have not been imprisoned?

"

Absolutely. Similarly why should the Pankhursts and other Suffragettes and Suffragists who committed criminal offences in order to push the government into allowing women like you to vote not have been imprisoned? Why also should women in Indonesia who commit criminal offences in order to prevent their small daughters from being clitorally circumcised not be imprisoned?

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By *xodussxMan
over a year ago

sheffield

Those who have the right to vote don't even do it. I don't see the point of even taking about this. Right to vote or not they are still in prison for some reason and are still human

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Honestly reading these posts and the way some people think is it any wonder our country is in the terrible state it is.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There is, of course, another reason why prisoners shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Prison officers are not election officials and as such should not be involved in officiating polling booths for prisoners to go and vote in, and we most certainly cannot permit convicted felons out of prison to go and vote at the nearest school.

Similarly, election officials shouldn't be expected, or required, to go inside a prison to conduct a poll that will bring them into direct contact with dangerous prisoners.

Why not give prisoners a postal ballot then?

Because it would involve their mail being opened to check for anything that should not be in there and that contravenes the rules of a secret ballot.

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By *unky monkeyMan
over a year ago

in the night garden


"If you chose to break the laws of a society, you are removed from that society and you lose the privileges that came with co-existing in that society i.e. you go to prison.

When they return to society they can vote again, until then FUCK OFF!

Using profane language in public is a criminal offence.

Personally I would enforce this law more rigorously because those of us who are more sensitive are fed up with hearing foul mouthing all the time. I would therefore prosecute you. But I wouldn't deny you the vote.

Are you flirting with me? Can't be sure.

As you have used profane language in this thread I think it likely that you have used profane language in public, which is a criminal offence. As you have committed a criminal offence, by your reasoning, you should not be allowed to vote.

I personally would allow you to vote despite this. But only if you could show that you understood the issues, and like many people, I would apply this to all people. Don't know the difference between social market capitalism and free market capitalism? Then you can't vote. Don't know who Keynes and Friedman were never mind what they advocated? Then you can't vote. Can't sum up the differences between a social democrat and a libertarian? Then you can't vote.

"

I'm not sure why you have brought me personally into this debate, what are your motives? Are you still flirting with me?

If I was put in jail for swearing on the internet, no I shouldn't be allowed to vote. But more importantly much as you want the power to give me the vote alas it is not within your remit in this hypothetical situation you have created. Or in this scenario are you some sort of head of state? Don't get me wrong I'm on board with it, I just need you to set the scene for me.

OK correct me if I have misunderstood anything, the facts so far are:

• You are the head of state with powers to make laws.

• You are sensitive and are offended by swearing

• You want to imprison people who type swear words on the internet.

• You are sexually attracted to me

Is this correct?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If you chose to break the laws of a society, you are removed from that society and you lose the privileges that came with co-existing in that society i.e. you go to prison.

When they return to society they can vote again, until then FUCK OFF!

Using profane language in public is a criminal offence.

Personally I would enforce this law more rigorously because those of us who are more sensitive are fed up with hearing foul mouthing all the time. I would therefore prosecute you. But I wouldn't deny you the vote.

Are you flirting with me? Can't be sure.

As you have used profane language in this thread I think it likely that you have used profane language in public, which is a criminal offence. As you have committed a criminal offence, by your reasoning, you should not be allowed to vote.

I personally would allow you to vote despite this. But only if you could show that you understood the issues, and like many people, I would apply this to all people. Don't know the difference between social market capitalism and free market capitalism? Then you can't vote. Don't know who Keynes and Friedman were never mind what they advocated? Then you can't vote. Can't sum up the differences between a social democrat and a libertarian? Then you can't vote.

I'm not sure why you have brought me personally into this debate, what are your motives? Are you still flirting with me?

If I was put in jail for swearing on the internet, no I shouldn't be allowed to vote. But more importantly much as you want the power to give me the vote alas it is not within your remit in this hypothetical situation you have created. Or in this scenario are you some sort of head of state? Don't get me wrong I'm on board with it, I just need you to set the scene for me.

OK correct me if I have misunderstood anything, the facts so far are:

• You are the head of state with powers to make laws.

• You are sensitive and are offended by swearing

• You want to imprison people who type swear words on the internet.

• You are sexually attracted to me

Is this correct?"

You are assuming that it is the female half of this couple rather than the male half who is posting here. This is an incorrect assumption.

Using profane language in public is a criminal offence and therefore, using your reasoning, you should not be allowed to vote. It's so simple that I would have thought that even a retarded Belgian hamster would understand.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"We can all quote an exceptional case of prisoners wrongly convicted but the vast majority of convicted people in jail ARE guilty.

Why should you have a say in society when you have no respect for it's rules?

The biggest deterrent might be to get the straight guys to go in the shower with Bubba who's hung like the OP ... "

So would this apply to people who park on pavements, people who park on double yellow lines, people who use profane language in public, people who speed, people who get d*unk and are either disorderly or incapable, and waiters who don't declare their tips? Because all these people clearly don't have "respect for rules". Or do you just mean people who are sent to prison? And if you just mean the latter how would you deal with a situation where for example Molly in Bristol with no previous convictions has been convicted of shoplifting and sent to prison whilst Betty in Newcastle who has several previous convictions and is arrested for shoplifting is not sent to prison?

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By *unky monkeyMan
over a year ago

in the night garden


"If you chose to break the laws of a society, you are removed from that society and you lose the privileges that came with co-existing in that society i.e. you go to prison.

When they return to society they can vote again, until then FUCK OFF!

Using profane language in public is a criminal offence.

Personally I would enforce this law more rigorously because those of us who are more sensitive are fed up with hearing foul mouthing all the time. I would therefore prosecute you. But I wouldn't deny you the vote.

Are you flirting with me? Can't be sure.

As you have used profane language in this thread I think it likely that you have used profane language in public, which is a criminal offence. As you have committed a criminal offence, by your reasoning, you should not be allowed to vote.

I personally would allow you to vote despite this. But only if you could show that you understood the issues, and like many people, I would apply this to all people. Don't know the difference between social market capitalism and free market capitalism? Then you can't vote. Don't know who Keynes and Friedman were never mind what they advocated? Then you can't vote. Can't sum up the differences between a social democrat and a libertarian? Then you can't vote.

I'm not sure why you have brought me personally into this debate, what are your motives? Are you still flirting with me?

If I was put in jail for swearing on the internet, no I shouldn't be allowed to vote. But more importantly much as you want the power to give me the vote alas it is not within your remit in this hypothetical situation you have created. Or in this scenario are you some sort of head of state? Don't get me wrong I'm on board with it, I just need you to set the scene for me.

OK correct me if I have misunderstood anything, the facts so far are:

• You are the head of state with powers to make laws.

• You are sensitive and are offended by swearing

• You want to imprison people who type swear words on the internet.

• You are sexually attracted to me

Is this correct?

You are assuming that it is the female half of this couple rather than the male half who is posting here. This is an incorrect assumption.

Using profane language in public is a criminal offence and therefore, using your reasoning, you should not be allowed to vote. It's so simple that I would have thought that even a retarded Belgian hamster would understand.

"

It is you that presumes. I had no such thoughts on your gender. In fact it is irrelevant.

We agree then, I said I shouldn't vote either If I were in prison.

I'm more interested in the hamster. You say it's Belgian and 'retarded'. Can you define retarded for me as it's such a vague label. Do you mean it suffers from mental illness? Also is the hamster indigenous to Belgium, how did it gain citizenship? I'm not sure you have your facts right. Please clarify.

Are you attracted to me?

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay


"In theory yes because Mandela should not have been in Prison anyway.

Should Abu Hamza and Ian Huntley be able to vote?

Nelson Mandela co-formed the armed wing of the ANC, and was involved in the planning of many bombings in South Africa for several years, some of these bombings killed innocent civilians....so WHY should he have not been imprisoned?

Absolutely. Similarly why should the Pankhursts and other Suffragettes and Suffragists who committed criminal offences in order to push the government into allowing women like you to vote not have been imprisoned? Why also should women in Indonesia who commit criminal offences in order to prevent their small daughters from being clitorally circumcised not be imprisoned?"

I think you will find that Pankhurst and Co. and women in Indonesia haven't committed atrocities such as the ANC carried out, Mandela himself admitted to having been a part of the ANC's Human Rights violations during their bombing campaign under the badge of the MK.

One man's freedom fighter is simply another man's terrorist....

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

This is clearly a contentious issue. Perhaps there should be a vote on it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"In theory yes because Mandela should not have been in Prison anyway.

Should Abu Hamza and Ian Huntley be able to vote?

Nelson Mandela co-formed the armed wing of the ANC, and was involved in the planning of many bombings in South Africa for several years, some of these bombings killed innocent civilians....so WHY should he have not been imprisoned?

Absolutely. Similarly why should the Pankhursts and other Suffragettes and Suffragists who committed criminal offences in order to push the government into allowing women like you to vote not have been imprisoned? Why also should women in Indonesia who commit criminal offences in order to prevent their small daughters from being clitorally circumcised not be imprisoned?

I think you will find that Pankhurst and Co. and women in Indonesia haven't committed atrocities such as the ANC carried out, Mandela himself admitted to having been a part of the ANC's Human Rights violations during their bombing campaign under the badge of the MK.

One man's freedom fighter is simply another man's terrorist...."

But what you seem to be saying is that breaking the law is justifiable in some cases but not in others. I would argue that the Pankhursts et al were forced to break the law because no government was prepared to give women the right to vote. I would also argue that Nelson Mandela was forced to do what he did, because there was no way that the then government of South Africa was going to give black and coloured people equal rights, and presumably most South Africans accept that or they wouldn't have had him as their leader for so long.

It is as I am sure you know, one of History's little ironies that had the Liberal Party not taken over in Britain there would have been no apartheid in South Africa for ANC to attack.

Another great British achievement, cough.

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By *rishmochaMan
over a year ago

Herts

Turnout in the elections for police and crime commissioners was a record low for a national election, possibly as low as 15%. There are roughly just short of 100k people in prison. Shouldn't politicians be looking at why the majority of people don't vote???

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

The PCC election cost £100 million. As far as I could see, at least £20 of that was spent at my local polling station. Could that money have been better spent?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"We can all quote an exceptional case of prisoners wrongly convicted but the vast majority of convicted people in jail ARE guilty.

Why should you have a say in society when you have no respect for it's rules?

The biggest deterrent might be to get the straight guys to go in the shower with Bubba who's hung like the OP ...

So would this apply to people who park on pavements, people who park on double yellow lines, people who use profane language in public, people who speed, people who get d*unk and are either disorderly or incapable, and waiters who don't declare their tips? Because all these people clearly don't have "respect for rules". Or do you just mean people who are sent to prison? And if you just mean the latter how would you deal with a situation where for example Molly in Bristol with no previous convictions has been convicted of shoplifting and sent to prison whilst Betty in Newcastle who has several previous convictions and is arrested for shoplifting is not sent to prison?

"

Betty has still technically broken the law so I don't know what your argument is. We can all point to inconsistencies in the judicial process or sentencing but the principle behind losing your rights as a free citizen still holds fast for me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Turnout in the elections for police and crime commissioners was a record low for a national election, possibly as low as 15%. There are roughly just short of 100k people in prison. Shouldn't politicians be looking at why the majority of people don't vote??? "

It's a wierd quirk but government look at all sorts of things simultaneously. Just imagine how slow the process of government would be if every single government minister was tasked with sorting out the same thing completely before moving onto another task.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"And if you just mean the latter how would you deal with a situation where for example Molly in Bristol with no previous convictions has been convicted of shoplifting and sent to prison whilst Betty in Newcastle who has several previous convictions and is arrested for shoplifting is not sent to prison?

"

Molly from Bristol should be advised that a life of crime isn't for her because she's not very good at it (having been convicted on her first attempt) but with the adendum that if she insists on pursuing a career in shoplifting it might be better for her if she moved to Newcastle.

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By *H.coupleCouple
over a year ago

edinburgh


"so the UK government is going against the EU ruling in Strasbourg allowing convicts to vote. What are your _iews?

Do those convicted of crimes deserve a vote? If not why not. Also what about those found guilty of crimes yet do not receive a custodial sentence - is it right they get to vote whilst their fellow cons don't? ( NB - those on remand and therefore non yet found guilty are still allowed a vote)"

If convicted of a crime, in my opinion, they shouldn't be allowed to vote until released.

Prison in the uk is a joke as it is. When prisoners have more luxuries than British troops in afghan.

I have no sympathy for prisoners at all, especially the "career criminals" rehab doesn't work for the majority in my opinion and being allowed to doss about your cell, surf the net, play Xbox etc. doesn't seem like much of a punishment to me.

I believe they should be made to do 8 hours work a day. Working for the council, cleaning chewing gum off the floor of bus stops where pikey kids drop it. But that's just me and I'm never going to be in charge of this country so my opinion counts for the square route of feck all, I'll just keep paying an extortionate amount of tax to make the awful life of prisoners that bit more bearable

Bit of a rant, apologies.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I am so glad I started this thread and it is just as lively as I expected! Two distinct camps and never the twain shall meet.

I myself think prisoners should get the vote, The majority of people inside are quite intelligent and politically vocal ad aware. Most are serving short sentences and have hands on experience of what failed in the system to put them there in the first place.

As for the logistics voting inside would be perfectly feasible, quick and simple.

Everyday there are civilians entering the prisons and working face to face with inmates including teachers, lawyers, kitchen staff, dentists, nurses

and visitors. I so no reason why an offical could not visit the prison and oversee the vote.

I will be watching closely what the government decide to do next....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The reason crime is so rampant in the UK is because of lily-livered liberalists who think every perp can be rehabilitated and so called 'human rights' activists who break down the door of anyone trying to introduce a mindset of being responsible for one;s actions.

Only the person committing a crime decides to go ahead with it. Nobody has a gun at his/her head forcing them into it. Likewise, falling on hard times isn't an excuse to rob someone else of what they've got either.

Hard time for hard crime (any crime that warrants a custodial sentence is hard time in my book)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The reason crime is so rampant in the UK is because of lily-livered liberalists who think every perp can be rehabilitated and so called 'human rights' activists who break down the door of anyone trying to introduce a mindset of being responsible for one;s actions.

Only the person committing a crime decides to go ahead with it. Nobody has a gun at his/her head forcing them into it. Likewise, falling on hard times isn't an excuse to rob someone else of what they've got either.

Hard time for hard crime (any crime that warrants a custodial sentence is hard time in my book)"

Totally agree.

As for prisoners voting... no way. They took a decision to live outside the rules of society, why give them the rights to choose those who make the rules.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The reason crime is so rampant in the UK is because of lily-livered liberalists who think every perp can be rehabilitated and so called 'human rights' activists who break down the door of anyone trying to introduce a mindset of being responsible for one;s actions.

Only the person committing a crime decides to go ahead with it. Nobody has a gun at his/her head forcing them into it. Likewise, falling on hard times isn't an excuse to rob someone else of what they've got either.

Hard time for hard crime (any crime that warrants a custodial sentence is hard time in my book)"

Totally agree.

As for prisoners voting... no way. They took a decision to live outside the rules of society, why give them the rights to choose those who make the rules.

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

Besides which, how can they get to the Polling Station if they are locked up? There's no guarantee their postal votes might accidently get 'lost' on the way to the postbox. Especially if the postman was a crim and nicked them.

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By *ovingit2012Man
over a year ago

Dudley

Why shouldn't prisoners vote? Isn't our aim to rehabilitate them and re-introduce them to society? To a society that will take decisions on how their lives and the lives of their families are affected? I wish David Cameron would find something else to get hot under the collar about - I can give him a long list.

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By *john121Man
over a year ago

staffs


"Why shouldn't prisoners vote? Isn't our aim to rehabilitate them and re-introduce them to society? To a society that will take decisions on how their lives and the lives of their families are affected? I wish David Cameron would find something else to get hot under the collar about - I can give him a long list. "

Ok So going by your principles then why wait for people to reach 18 before they can vote?

17 to drive a car, 18 to drink and so on.

These are all privileges like driving a car and if you're going to drive you need to follow rules of the road, break those rules and the ultimate sanction is being banned! Maybe even end up behind bars..see if you give some thought its simple why they should have the right to vote removed. They may very well have taken someone else right to life away!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Why shouldn't prisoners vote? Isn't our aim to rehabilitate them and re-introduce them to society? To a society that will take decisions on how their lives and the lives of their families are affected? I wish David Cameron would find something else to get hot under the collar about - I can give him a long list. "

Go along to your local crown court and sit in on a murder trial. Do it for a few days so you get a feel for what's going on. Make sure you are there when the defendant gives evidence, and watch him/her lie and cajole to try and get away with taking someone's life. When the verdict is announced look quickly to the convict and watch for a response. There won't be one. That person cannot be rehabilitated, nor can the victim be brought back to life.

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

What if a prisoner had been convicted of election fraud? Should he get a vote?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What if a prisoner had been convicted of election fraud? Should he get a vote? "

Why would he want one when he knows it will mean absolutely nothing - to him.

But to answer your question, no he shouldn't, if he is in prison for his crime/s at the time of the very next election to which he would normally be eligible to take part.

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By *inktherapyCouple
over a year ago

Gloucester


"

As for prisoners voting... no way. They took a decision to live outside the rules of society, why give them the rights to choose those who make the rules.

"

Totally agree with this pov

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!


"What if a prisoner had been convicted of election fraud? Should he get a vote?

Why would he want one when he knows it will mean absolutely nothing - to him.

But to answer your question, no he shouldn't, if he is in prison for his crime/s at the time of the very next election to which he would normally be eligible to take part."

*yawn* spot the irony in my posts.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Supreme Court says NO to votes for prisoners.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Supreme Court says NO to votes for prisoners."

Do you know on what grounds was given with the decision

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

good news

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Supreme Court says NO to votes for prisoners.

Do you know on what grounds was given with the decision "

Not yet. Only just heard the judgement.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

it is an interesting topic....

I would have said, now that there are fixed termed governments.... as long as someone was due to be released in that term then they should have been allowed to vote....

there is a difference between being in jail for life.... and being in for a month that happened to straddle that election period........

mind you, with the amount of people in this counrty that dont bother to vote anyway... you wonder what the issue is.....

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

I haven't seen the grounds offered only the headline that the case has failed.

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

Here is a link to the judgment:

http://www.supremecourt.gov.uk/decided-cases/docs/UKSC_2012_0151_Judgment.pdf

The meat is on page 4 paras A & B

EU law does not provide an individual right to vote, which the ECHR does, and that voting eligibility is a matter for individual countries.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


" .......

there is a difference between being in jail for life.... and being in for a month that happened to straddle that election period........

..."

I hope this isn't illegal. I genuinely don't know.

I'd imagine if voting was that important to you and you were facing a short jail term which would stop you attending in person, a postal vote would be the answer.

Do they check?

CAN they check?

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

You have to register for a postal vote and if you are registered at living on Bash St, Beanotown and are instead in Strangeways, then it would be considered electoral fraud.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just to clarify the supreme court in uk have rejected a case by 2 men on life sentences to be allowed to vote which is the correct decision in my eyes.

The european courts of which we have judges and lawyers in have stated uk as with other nations cannot and should not have a blanket ban on folk in prison having a vote the suggestion is parliament are likely to allow folk convicted of offences of 6 months or less right to vote.

Remember folk being given 6month sentences or less are not always jailed but coukd be on curfew or tagged etc.

Once the sentence is served then for me yes allow them to vote its all about rehabiltation otherwise do they say because you committed a crime you cannot be proper member of society.

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