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"^99.9999999% of men are  "True is best to avoid us all really | |||
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"I think I must just choose the right men. " Not always.....  | |||
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. The bar is just so depressingly low, especially in dating. With more casual sex you expect it to be low but unfortunately any effort or consideration by many is considered too much and that's across the board. I guess society in general has just become quite self centred. I'm pleased to know a few gems and it makes them more special. | |||
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"I'm sure the hubby loves this "We are in a fwb situation, I'm very open with him about how I feel. | |||
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"All men or just some men? We're not all misogynistic arseholes." Not all men of course, just several recently and throughout my life. | |||
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"I'm increasingly feeling having sex with men is like "sleeping with the enemy". This is a result of years of misogyny. It may be a generational problem. How do other women put this aside ? Maybe as my hormones have decreased I need sex less and so won't put up with any bullshit." Sleeping with the enemy ? Sounds like you’re the sexist at this stage. Sorry you’ve had such bad men to make you think this terribly. | |||
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"All men or just some men? We're not all misogynistic arseholes. Not all men of course, just several recently and throughout my life." I totally get where you're coming from, I've met some absolute aresholes through my life but they come from both genders so I have reached the conclusion people are cunts. Obviously not all people, just 99.9999999% of them.
Mr | |||
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"All men or just some men? We're not all misogynistic arseholes. Not all men of course, just several recently and throughout my life. I totally get where you're coming from, I've met some absolute aresholes through my life but they come from both genders so I have reached the conclusion people are cunts. Obviously not all people, just 99.9999999% of them.
Mr"lol just that | |||
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"I'm increasingly feeling having sex with men is like "sleeping with the enemy". This is a result of years of misogyny. It may be a generational problem. How do other women put this aside ? Maybe as my hormones have decreased I need sex less and so won't put up with any bullshit. Sleeping with the enemy ? Sounds like you’re the sexist at this stage. Sorry you’ve had such bad men to make you think this terribly." I think you are either misunderstanding me or it's how I've written it. But, if the patriachy still exists, which it does, it does so because those who benefit do not want change. | |||
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"I'm increasingly feeling having sex with men is like "sleeping with the enemy". This is a result of years of misogyny. It may be a generational problem. How do other women put this aside ? Maybe as my hormones have decreased I need sex less and so won't put up with any bullshit." Ha! Youre not alone - I hear a lot of my young friends expressing similar sentiments. Personally, I dont want to play with anyone who is a "manly man" or a "lad" (frankly, its boring when they are playing out that stereotype over and over) but men who are softer I am comfortable playing with. It might be worth remembering that men who challenge the stereotypes are doing more to challenge toxic masculinity than we as women could ever do. So just choose the right people! Easier said than done - age is a factor here... there are a lot of queer/soft masculine people in my age group, far less in older age groups. You could of course only play with us females
Good luck figuring it out.
Fay x | |||
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"All men or just some men? We're not all misogynistic arseholes. Not all men of course, just several recently and throughout my life." I'm sorry to hear that. | |||
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"I'm increasingly feeling having sex with men is like "sleeping with the enemy". This is a result of years of misogyny. It may be a generational problem. How do other women put this aside ? Maybe as my hormones have decreased I need sex less and so won't put up with any bullshit. Ha! Youre not alone - I hear a lot of my young friends expressing similar sentiments. Personally, I dont want to play with anyone who is a "manly man" or a "lad" (frankly, its boring when they are playing out that stereotype over and over) but men who are softer I am comfortable playing with. It might be worth remembering that men who challenge the stereotypes are doing more to challenge toxic masculinity than we as women could ever do. So just choose the right people! Easier said than done - age is a factor here... there are a lot of queer/soft masculine people in my age group, far less in older age groups. You could of course only play with us females
Good luck figuring it out.
Fay x "Thanks, this is great advice x | |||
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"I don't put it aside I just don't interact with people I find misogynistic or those who show signs of misandry either. So I don't have an issue at all and the men I have had sex with on here have all been decent nice men who I am happy to have met. If I felt the way you do OP I would probably step back and re-evaluate what I want or who I want to meet off here. Of course there are men who are misogynistic on here just like there are women who seem to thoroughly despise men on here .All you can do is watch out for signs of those you don't want to have any thing to do with and stop interacting before it gets to the sex stage. " I see more misandry on here than I do misogyny if I’m honest! | |||
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"#notallmen" This, plus.. #notallwomen.. | |||
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"I'm increasingly feeling having sex with men is like "sleeping with the enemy". This is a result of years of misogyny. It may be a generational problem. How do other women put this aside ? Maybe as my hormones have decreased I need sex less and so won't put up with any bullshit." Why are you choosing to sleep with men that must all have the same traits, knowing you are not compatible? | |||
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"I don't put it aside I just don't interact with people I find misogynistic or those who show signs of misandry either. So I don't have an issue at all and the men I have had sex with on here have all been decent nice men who I am happy to have met. If I felt the way you do OP I would probably step back and re-evaluate what I want or who I want to meet off here. Of course there are men who are misogynistic on here just like there are women who seem to thoroughly despise men on here .All you can do is watch out for signs of those you don't want to have any thing to do with and stop interacting before it gets to the sex stage. I see more misandry on here than I do misogyny if I’m honest! " Men should know their place. . . . .  | |||
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" I don't put it aside I just don't interact with people I find misogynistic or those who show signs of misandry either. So I don't have an issue at all and the men I have had sex with on here have all been decent nice men who I am happy to have met. If I felt the way you do OP I would probably step back and re-evaluate what I want or who I want to meet off here. Of course there are men who are misogynistic on here just like there are women who seem to thoroughly despise men on here .All you can do is watch out for signs of those you don't want to have any thing to do with and stop interacting before it gets to the sex stage. I see more misandry on here than I do misogyny if I’m honest! " Absolutely this! | |||
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"I'm increasingly feeling having sex with men is like "sleeping with the enemy". This is a result of years of misogyny. It may be a generational problem. How do other women put this aside ? Maybe as my hormones have decreased I need sex less and so won't put up with any bullshit." I am sorry to read that you feel this way. I don't need to put those issues that you have experienced to one side because I have never experienced them for myself. I have to say that your generalisation of men is not an argument I agree with, in fact I strongly disagree with it. Needing less sex due to hormones and the fact that you won't put up with bullshit is rather confusing and not a debate I wish to take on. My advice is to have a chat with your gp, sort the hormone balance out and get yourself in a good place then you may feel differently towards others.
NBVN x | |||
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"Because all men are cunts....Especially the middle-aged, white, straight ones....." ° Phew! For once it pays to be non-Caucasian! | |||
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"I'm increasingly feeling having sex with men is like "sleeping with the enemy". This is a result of years of misogyny. It may be a generational problem. How do other women put this aside ? Maybe as my hormones have decreased I need sex less and so won't put up with any bullshit." Sounds like your falling for misandrist propaganda. Focus on the individual and ignore collectivist BS as they are all the same. C | |||
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"Because all men are cunts. That’s what you’ve been told to think. Particularly in recent years. Especially the middle-aged, white, straight ones. Who sit to centre or right of politics. It’s the drip, drip, drip of negative press subliminally turning you against them to the point you consider them the enemy. Sad, really. But hey ho, it is what it is "This. It's a case of divide and rule. The ruling classes can't stand on top of a united people. They need them weakened by the bollocks they invented to keep the Great Unwashed distracted C | |||
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"All men or just some men? We're not all misogynistic arseholes. Not all men of course, just several recently and throughout my life. I totally get where you're coming from, I've met some absolute aresholes through my life but they come from both genders so I have reached the conclusion people are cunts. Obviously not all people, just 99.9999999% of them.
Mr"So let me get this right. To not be a c word I have to be one of 0.000000001 percent of peeps? I’m screwed - I’ve never been that special. 
To the op. If you feel like that - here probably isn’t the best place to be. I’m the opposite of you I think. In my experience ‘most’ people are nice.
I’ve spent decades in the wrong relationships with guys who weren’t nice to me - but that’s 2 men in a sea of men.
I’ve also met men - and women - on here who are very flawed (I probably am myself) - but I’ve met a LOT of bloody marvellous people too - some of whom have been kind enough to lend me their lips, penis or vaginas on occasion.
I’d write a list - but I need to be out of the house in a couple of hours. | |||
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"Because all men are cunts. That’s what you’ve been told to think. Particularly in recent years. Especially the middle-aged, white, straight ones. Who sit to centre or right of politics. It’s the drip, drip, drip of negative press subliminally turning you against them to the point you consider them the enemy. Sad, really. But hey ho, it is what it is "It's to save women from the likes of BoJo | |||
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"Because all men are cunts. That’s what you’ve been told to think. Particularly in recent years. Especially the middle-aged, white, straight ones. Who sit to centre or right of politics. It’s the drip, drip, drip of negative press subliminally turning you against them to the point you consider them the enemy. Sad, really. But hey ho, it is what it is
This. It's a case of divide and rule.
The ruling classes can't stand on top of a united people. They need them weakened by the bollocks they invented to keep the Great Unwashed distracted
C"Wrong Elizabethan era. People wash too much nowadays (maybe apart from their hands)  | |||
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"Because all men are cunts. That’s what you’ve been told to think. Particularly in recent years. Especially the middle-aged, white, straight ones. Who sit to centre or right of politics. It’s the drip, drip, drip of negative press subliminally turning you against them to the point you consider them the enemy. Sad, really. But hey ho, it is what it is
This. It's a case of divide and rule.
The ruling classes can't stand on top of a united people. They need them weakened by the bollocks they invented to keep the Great Unwashed distracted
C"I agree with you re the philosophy of divide and rule and distraction, but not for this case, more the current strikes, benefits Britain and the such like. | |||
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"Because all men are cunts. That’s what you’ve been told to think. Particularly in recent years. Especially the middle-aged, white, straight ones. Who sit to centre or right of politics. It’s the drip, drip, drip of negative press subliminally turning you against them to the point you consider them the enemy. Sad, really. But hey ho, it is what it is
This. It's a case of divide and rule.
The ruling classes can't stand on top of a united people. They need them weakened by the bollocks they invented to keep the Great Unwashed distracted
C
I agree with you re the philosophy of divide and rule and distraction, but not for this case, more the current strikes, benefits Britain and the such like."It's been happening for generations. The people find a common ground and then more things happen. The media doesn't help at all. C | |||
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"I'm increasingly feeling having sex with men is like "sleeping with the enemy". This is a result of years of misogyny. It may be a generational problem. How do other women put this aside ? Maybe as my hormones have decreased I need sex less and so won't put up with any bullshit. Ha! Youre not alone - I hear a lot of my young friends expressing similar sentiments. Personally, I dont want to play with anyone who is a "manly man" or a "lad" (frankly, its boring when they are playing out that stereotype over and over) but men who are softer I am comfortable playing with. It might be worth remembering that men who challenge the stereotypes are doing more to challenge toxic masculinity than we as women could ever do. So just choose the right people! Easier said than done - age is a factor here... there are a lot of queer/soft masculine people in my age group, far less in older age groups. You could of course only play with us females
Good luck figuring it out.
Fay x "This
Hubby is a softer man, I've never met someone so gracious and just gentle with everyone. It's even better that he's all mine 
(Well I share him sometimes!).
Really don't like the macho man attitude, shame 99% of the people who land in our inbox are of that category....
And on a side note, it's a shame your all the way in Wales 
Lx | |||
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"Because all men are cunts. That’s what you’ve been told to think. Particularly in recent years. Especially the middle-aged, white, straight ones. Who sit to centre or right of politics. It’s the drip, drip, drip of negative press subliminally turning you against them to the point you consider them the enemy. Sad, really. But hey ho, it is what it is
This. It's a case of divide and rule.
The ruling classes can't stand on top of a united people. They need them weakened by the bollocks they invented to keep the Great Unwashed distracted
C
I agree with you re the philosophy of divide and rule and distraction, but not for this case, more the current strikes, benefits Britain and the such like.
It's been happening for generations. The people find a common ground and then more things happen. The media doesn't help at all.
C"People find big words and labels and apply them liberally to one another.... | |||
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"Because all men are cunts. That’s what you’ve been told to think. Particularly in recent years. Especially the middle-aged, white, straight ones. Who sit to centre or right of politics. It’s the drip, drip, drip of negative press subliminally turning you against them to the point you consider them the enemy. Sad, really. But hey ho, it is what it is
This. It's a case of divide and rule.
The ruling classes can't stand on top of a united people. They need them weakened by the bollocks they invented to keep the Great Unwashed distracted
C
I agree with you re the philosophy of divide and rule and distraction, but not for this case, more the current strikes, benefits Britain and the such like.
It's been happening for generations. The people find a common ground and then more things happen. The media doesn't help at all.
C
People find big words and labels and apply them liberally to one another.... "Not too heavy on the salt  | |||
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"Because all men are cunts. That’s what you’ve been told to think. Particularly in recent years. Especially the middle-aged, white, straight ones. Who sit to centre or right of politics. It’s the drip, drip, drip of negative press subliminally turning you against them to the point you consider them the enemy. Sad, really. But hey ho, it is what it is "This is the best answer here. I don't watch TV and ove deleted social media, I'm happy and I don't miss either of them. | |||
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"99% of men range between ok and great. the problem being that the remaining 1% look exactly like the other 99% and while we live in a society where Men are still believed over others by default, and victim shaming occurs by the authorities I can never blame anyone being wary of men. The full phrase is after all "It is all men until it is no men"" Not sure about this one. Men aren’t always believed over others by default. Not at all. | |||
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"99% of men range between ok and great. the problem being that the remaining 1% look exactly like the other 99% and while we live in a society where Men are still believed over others by default, and victim shaming occurs by the authorities I can never blame anyone being wary of men. The full phrase is after all "It is all men until it is no men"" Never heard of that phrase, but can appreciate the rationale behind it. We try to treat everyone how they would like to be treated. It's not perfect as we all make mistakes, but it's done us well so far. | |||
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"99% of men range between ok and great. the problem being that the remaining 1% look exactly like the other 99% and while we live in a society where Men are still believed over others by default, and victim shaming occurs by the authorities I can never blame anyone being wary of men. The full phrase is after all "It is all men until it is no men" Not sure about this one. Men aren’t always believed over others by default. Not at all. " True, A has been not believed on many occasions... | |||
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"99% of men range between ok and great. the problem being that the remaining 1% look exactly like the other 99% and while we live in a society where Men are still believed over others by default, and victim shaming occurs by the authorities I can never blame anyone being wary of men. The full phrase is after all "It is all men until it is no men"" I don't blame women being wary of men. I also don't blame me dor being wary of women. It's almost evolutionary to be suspicious. The last two years we have been wary of everyone. Are you going to give me COVID? Are you? That's fucked our mental health up end. IMO we have to balance trust noone until you can trust everyone with the benefits of taking the risk with people. Part of that is seeking ways of identifying the 1pc. And getting rid quickly. And I way that as someone who probably was in a relationship that bordered on emotional abuse now that I am more aware. | |||
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" Not too heavy on the salt "Some can't. Some see arguments that aren't there and think they are being attacked when in truth they are the ones being defended. C | |||
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"All men or just some men? We're not all misogynistic arseholes. Not all men of course, just several recently and throughout my life. I totally get where you're coming from, I've met some absolute aresholes through my life but they come from both genders so I have reached the conclusion people are cunts. Obviously not all people, just 99.9999999% of them.
Mr
So let me get this right. To not be a c word I have to be one of 0.000000001 percent of peeps? I’m screwed - I’ve never been that special.
To the op. If you feel like that - here probably isn’t the best place to be. I’m the opposite of you I think. In my experience ‘most’ people are nice.
I’ve spent decades in the wrong relationships with guys who weren’t nice to me - but that’s 2 men in a sea of men.
I’ve also met men - and women - on here who are very flawed (I probably am myself) - but I’ve met a LOT of bloody marvellous people too - some of whom have been kind enough to lend me their lips, penis or vaginas on occasion.
I’d write a list - but I need to be out of the house in a couple of hours. "I don't know you that well Peachy but from what I've seen on here you're deffo in with a chance
Firstly (like many statistics) it was made up on the spot and partially borrowed from another post further up the thread (I may have got the number of decimal places wrong)
Secondly, unlike most threads that complain about people in generalised groups, I firmly include myself in the cunts of my original assertion. I am just a likely to be unkind, selfish, thoughtless, hurtful etc etc as everyone else.
Mr | |||
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" Not too heavy on the salt
Some can't. Some see arguments that aren't there and think they are being attacked when in truth they are the ones being defended.
C"Before I could post I wandered around the forum bemused at this issue. And I totally forgive anyone who is insulted by my humour | |||
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"99% of men range between ok and great. the problem being that the remaining 1% look exactly like the other 99% and while we live in a society where Men are still believed over others by default, and victim shaming occurs by the authorities I can never blame anyone being wary of men. The full phrase is after all "It is all men until it is no men"" Men are not believed by default, in fact men are most likely not to be believed and have stereotypical behaviours associated to them, Which is exactly what you have done here.... | |||
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"I concentrate on the individual man. If he's ok, I'm ok" 110% | |||
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"99% of men range between ok and great. the problem being that the remaining 1% look exactly like the other 99% and while we live in a society where Men are still believed over others by default, and victim shaming occurs by the authorities I can never blame anyone being wary of men. The full phrase is after all "It is all men until it is no men" Men are not believed by default, in fact men are most likely not to be believed and have stereotypical behaviours associated to them, Which is exactly what you have done here...." Then why are 5 in 6 assaults on women not reported, why do only 1% of those 1 in 6 reported cases result in a charge, and then only half lead to a conviction? If people don't believe the men? | |||
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"I should point out to the OP as well that we live under a female figurehead. We actually live in a matriarchal society that puts women above men by and large (despite some undesirables in society). C" Great Britain appears to have strong matriarchal tendencies. However, Great Britain is not a matriarchy. Elizabeth I, Elizabeth II, and Victoria came to the throne in the absence of male heirs, not because of a system designed to place women in positions of power. I googled it to save myself a headache .
We're a nation trying to achieve equality of the sexes and races and classes... But it's a tall order.
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"99% of men range between ok and great. the problem being that the remaining 1% look exactly like the other 99% and while we live in a society where Men are still believed over others by default, and victim shaming occurs by the authorities I can never blame anyone being wary of men. The full phrase is after all "It is all men until it is no men" Men are not believed by default, in fact men are most likely not to be believed and have stereotypical behaviours associated to them, Which is exactly what you have done here.... Then why are 5 in 6 assaults on women not reported, why do only 1% of those 1 in 6 reported cases result in a charge, and then only half lead to a conviction? If people don't believe the men?" reasonable doubt and innocent until proven guilty. It's very hard to show that it was ME that attacked you, even if there are obvious signs of violence. Do you have the same stats for female on male assualts? That would be telling. | |||
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"99% of men range between ok and great. the problem being that the remaining 1% look exactly like the other 99% and while we live in a society where Men are still believed over others by default, and victim shaming occurs by the authorities I can never blame anyone being wary of men. The full phrase is after all "It is all men until it is no men" Men are not believed by default, in fact men are most likely not to be believed and have stereotypical behaviours associated to them, Which is exactly what you have done here.... Then why are 5 in 6 assaults on women not reported, why do only 1% of those 1 in 6 reported cases result in a charge, and then only half lead to a conviction? If people don't believe the men?reasonable doubt and innocent until proven guilty. It's very hard to show that it was ME that attacked you, even if there are obvious signs of violence. Do you have the same stats for female on male assualts? That would be telling. " I was on a jury in november, in a sexual assault case, the instruction from the judge is upon hearing the evidence it comes down to who we believe, the victim or the accused. The literal instruction for acting on the jury is to side with who you believe. "Female" on "Male" stats will tie in to toxic masculinity which is an entirely seperate example of the patriarchy and makes it a strawman argument here. | |||
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"99% of men range between ok and great. the problem being that the remaining 1% look exactly like the other 99% and while we live in a society where Men are still believed over others by default, and victim shaming occurs by the authorities I can never blame anyone being wary of men. The full phrase is after all "It is all men until it is no men" Men are not believed by default, in fact men are most likely not to be believed and have stereotypical behaviours associated to them, Which is exactly what you have done here.... Then why are 5 in 6 assaults on women not reported, why do only 1% of those 1 in 6 reported cases result in a charge, and then only half lead to a conviction? If people don't believe the men?" How would you know 5 in 6 assaults are not reported? Surely this would then be conjecture based on hearsay. Is the 1% resulting in a charge and the conviction rate the same for men being assaulted? | |||
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"99% of men range between ok and great. the problem being that the remaining 1% look exactly like the other 99% and while we live in a society where Men are still believed over others by default, and victim shaming occurs by the authorities I can never blame anyone being wary of men. The full phrase is after all "It is all men until it is no men" Men are not believed by default, in fact men are most likely not to be believed and have stereotypical behaviours associated to them, Which is exactly what you have done here.... Then why are 5 in 6 assaults on women not reported, why do only 1% of those 1 in 6 reported cases result in a charge, and then only half lead to a conviction? If people don't believe the men?reasonable doubt and innocent until proven guilty. It's very hard to show that it was ME that attacked you, even if there are obvious signs of violence. Do you have the same stats for female on male assualts? That would be telling. " 1 in 20 men but it doesn't delineate abuser's gender. | |||
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"99% of men range between ok and great. the problem being that the remaining 1% look exactly like the other 99% and while we live in a society where Men are still believed over others by default, and victim shaming occurs by the authorities I can never blame anyone being wary of men. The full phrase is after all "It is all men until it is no men" Men are not believed by default, in fact men are most likely not to be believed and have stereotypical behaviours associated to them, Which is exactly what you have done here.... Then why are 5 in 6 assaults on women not reported, why do only 1% of those 1 in 6 reported cases result in a charge, and then only half lead to a conviction? If people don't believe the men?reasonable doubt and innocent until proven guilty. It's very hard to show that it was ME that attacked you, even if there are obvious signs of violence. Do you have the same stats for female on male assualts? That would be telling. 1 in 20 men but it doesn't delineate abuser's gender." Google the UK's organisation on r@pe crisis for many disturbing facts and myth busting. | |||
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"99% of men range between ok and great. the problem being that the remaining 1% look exactly like the other 99% and while we live in a society where Men are still believed over others by default, and victim shaming occurs by the authorities I can never blame anyone being wary of men. The full phrase is after all "It is all men until it is no men" Men are not believed by default, in fact men are most likely not to be believed and have stereotypical behaviours associated to them, Which is exactly what you have done here.... Then why are 5 in 6 assaults on women not reported, why do only 1% of those 1 in 6 reported cases result in a charge, and then only half lead to a conviction? If people don't believe the men?reasonable doubt and innocent until proven guilty. It's very hard to show that it was ME that attacked you, even if there are obvious signs of violence. Do you have the same stats for female on male assualts? That would be telling. 1 in 20 men but it doesn't delineate abuser's gender." Do those figures include our trans brothers and sisters? | |||
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"I’m not misogynistic. I hate men as well as women. We’re all cunts. You’ve just got to find a cunt worth sleeping with." A cock for me please. Not that I have anything against cunts as I have one and it can be quite pleasurable  | |||
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"99% of men range between ok and great. the problem being that the remaining 1% look exactly like the other 99% and while we live in a society where Men are still believed over others by default, and victim shaming occurs by the authorities I can never blame anyone being wary of men. The full phrase is after all "It is all men until it is no men" Men are not believed by default, in fact men are most likely not to be believed and have stereotypical behaviours associated to them, Which is exactly what you have done here.... Then why are 5 in 6 assaults on women not reported, why do only 1% of those 1 in 6 reported cases result in a charge, and then only half lead to a conviction? If people don't believe the men?reasonable doubt and innocent until proven guilty. It's very hard to show that it was ME that attacked you, even if there are obvious signs of violence. Do you have the same stats for female on male assualts? That would be telling. 1 in 20 men but it doesn't delineate abuser's gender." which bit of the "funnel" is 1 in 20? It's interesting the gender isnt split here. I'd hypthesise that male on male violence tends to be ore public, so likely to have other evidence than DV which offen is one word against the other. (For the record, I dont have a strong position on this and from child grooming reports there are areas where accusatuons are not taken seriously enough. However I will always poke numbers !) | |||
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"I’m not misogynistic. I hate men as well as women. We’re all cunts. You’ve just got to find a cunt worth sleeping with. A cock for me please. Not that I have anything against cunts as I have one and it can be quite pleasurable "#notallcunts | |||
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"I've given the site for you to seek answers to your questions "I hadn't seen that when I posted !! | |||
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" Not too heavy on the salt
Some can't. Some see arguments that aren't there and think they are being attacked when in truth they are the ones being defended.
C
Before I could post I wandered around the forum bemused at this issue.
And I totally forgive anyone who is insulted by my humour "Almost all of my posts are done with humour in mind. I just roll my eyes when people get the intent wrong C | |||
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"I've given the site for you to seek answers to your questions
I hadn't seen that when I posted !!"A couple of you hadn't hence the above post. | |||
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"99% of men range between ok and great. the problem being that the remaining 1% look exactly like the other 99% and while we live in a society where Men are still believed over others by default, and victim shaming occurs by the authorities I can never blame anyone being wary of men. The full phrase is after all "It is all men until it is no men" Men are not believed by default, in fact men are most likely not to be believed and have stereotypical behaviours associated to them, Which is exactly what you have done here.... Then why are 5 in 6 assaults on women not reported, why do only 1% of those 1 in 6 reported cases result in a charge, and then only half lead to a conviction? If people don't believe the men?" Alleged assaults. When factoring in the figures, do remember that they have admitted counting male victims in amongst the figures of women and children. C | |||
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" Not too heavy on the salt
Some can't. Some see arguments that aren't there and think they are being attacked when in truth they are the ones being defended.
C
Before I could post I wandered around the forum bemused at this issue.
And I totally forgive anyone who is insulted by my humour
Almost all of my posts are done with humour in mind. I just roll my eyes when people get the intent wrong
C"People should be morelikeminx and choose not to take offence, even when it's intended. It's so empowering | |||
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"I should point out to the OP as well that we live under a female figurehead. We actually live in a matriarchal society that puts women above men by and large (despite some undesirables in society). C Great Britain appears to have strong matriarchal tendencies. However, Great Britain is not a matriarchy. Elizabeth I, Elizabeth II, and Victoria came to the throne in the absence of male heirs, not because of a system designed to place women in positions of power. I googled it to save myself a headache .
We're a nation trying to achieve equality of the sexes and races and classes... But it's a tall order.
"Can't happen when one gender has supremacy under law and in society. From bodily autonomy under law (men don't have it) to attitudes to childhood abuse (watch the offers of a high five to male vicims compared to the correct anger aimed at male offenders) It is matriarchal though given nothing is done without her allowance. C | |||
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" Not too heavy on the salt
Some can't. Some see arguments that aren't there and think they are being attacked when in truth they are the ones being defended.
C
Before I could post I wandered around the forum bemused at this issue.
And I totally forgive anyone who is insulted by my humour
Almost all of my posts are done with humour in mind. I just roll my eyes when people get the intent wrong
C
People should be morelikeminx and choose not to take offence, even when it's intended. It's so empowering "That's more like me as well. C | |||
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"this thread is by itself providing evidence of the existence of the patriarchy and that it is in full force. People are showing valid statistics of crimes against femme presenting people and the response is not about how awful it is or what can be done about it. The response is centreing men, what about ism and strawman arguments. " Crime against anyone is awful. And there are many, many occasions where "what can be done" is discussed at great (and triggering) length. But this thread appeared to start as a not so veiled man bashing thread, and that's not ok. People have a right to want to point out that actually, some men are awesome, and some men are victims of the same crimes. And that actually, maybe, just maybe the patriarchy isn't as "full force" as once it was. Misandry is rife in the forum at times, and it's just as bad and just as harmful as misogyny. | |||
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"this thread is by itself providing evidence of the existence of the patriarchy and that it is in full force. People are showing valid statistics of crimes against femme presenting people and the response is not about how awful it is or what can be done about it. The response is centreing men, what about ism and strawman arguments. " I can’t speak for anyone else, but I’m certainly not belittling the risk and crimes that a small percentage of men inflict on women, however the OP opened up with the gambit that “sleeping with men is like having sex with the enemy”. Somebody said that there was a small percentage of men that cause trouble but until you can distinguish these men from the the majority then, essentially, trust no men at all. Men are subject to abuse from females too. Most of that will be largely unreported. Until we can separate the abusive women from non abusive ones then, similarly, by the same reckoning we should trust no women either. In fact, men are much more likely to be victims of assault than women (all assaults, not just sexual). Sad thing is, you will NEVER eradicate a small percentage of society acting like utter c*nts to their fellow man or woman, whether the perpetrators are male or female. You can therefore choose to see EVERYBODY as your enemy, as implied by the opening post, or take each case as it comes. Just my 2p worth, like | |||
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"I see more misandry on here than I do misogyny if I’m honest! " Pretty much wall to wall reading at the moment!! Funny how most of us have buggered off | |||
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"this thread is by itself providing evidence of the existence of the patriarchy and that it is in full force. People are showing valid statistics of crimes against femme presenting people and the response is not about how awful it is or what can be done about it. The response is centreing men, what about ism and strawman arguments. Crime against anyone is awful. And there are many, many occasions where "what can be done" is discussed at great (and triggering) length. But this thread appeared to start as a not so veiled man bashing thread, and that's not ok. People have a right to want to point out that actually, some men are awesome, and some men are victims of the same crimes. And that actually, maybe, just maybe the patriarchy isn't as "full force" as once it was. Misandry is rife in the forum at times, and it's just as bad and just as harmful as misogyny." we need an applause emoji! | |||
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"I see more misandry on here than I do misogyny if I’m honest! Pretty much wall to wall reading at the moment!! Funny how most of us have buggered off " Yep. I’ve noticed that too. It’s a shame x | |||
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"The problem is that people treat misogyny and misandry as equal things. They are not. Misandry hurts people's feelings Misogyny kills people" The far reaching mental gymnastics... Lol just no. | |||
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"this thread is by itself providing evidence of the existence of the patriarchy and that it is in full force. People are showing valid statistics of crimes against femme presenting people and the response is not about how awful it is or what can be done about it. The response is centreing men, what about ism and strawman arguments. " I wasn't going to post this as i didn't want to derail the thread. But while numbers may be valid, it's important they are being used to evidence the position being taken. The stats say: 1 in 5 women have been r@ped/sexually assaulted/sexually absued, and 1 in 20 men. That's horrific and shows why women are right to be more worried about this subject. I have never disagreed with this. This is a huge issue we need to all look at. 5 in 6 women and 4 in 5 men dont report r@pe. That's a shocking number but is similar across genders which makes me lean towards this not being about "believe all men" as was presented. Indeed 40pc day this is because of embarrassment. Something we can all do more about. Only 1pc of reported r@pes in 2021 resulted in a charge in that year. That's not the same as a charge within a year. Or no charge at all. A report made on 31 Dec that resulted in a charge on 1 Jan would count in the 99pc. It's not a great measurement for giving the full picture. Again, I agree there are huge issues we need to address. I'm not denying that. But you need to understand the details of the issues if you are to address them. An I querying the numbers because I'm a man? Or someone who deals with stastics as a profession ? Possibly both. But I do believe if you don't understand your stats, you dont understand your problem. And if you don't understand your problem you are going to be very lucky if you can then answer it. | |||
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"this thread is by itself providing evidence of the existence of the patriarchy and that it is in full force. People are showing valid statistics of crimes against femme presenting people and the response is not about how awful it is or what can be done about it. The response is centreing men, what about ism and strawman arguments. " No it isn't. People use the excuse of "patriarchy" to bash men (as you are doing) when it is purely a government system. The counter of male centred arguments is much on topic as it counters the vitriol aimed at men. Are statistics valid when it is known that the statistics are not real and are in fact wholly inflated by erasure of groups of victims? https://www.familylaw.co.uk/news_and_comment/supporting-male-victims-of-crimes-considered-violence-against-women-girls You are pushing dangerous falsehoods and are not friendly to the kind of people who are finding media lies to be affecting their mindset. Check your privilege. C | |||
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"The problem is that people treat misogyny and misandry as equal things. They are not. Misandry hurts people's feelings Misogyny kills people" ^ this is a prime example of misandry is anyone wants to see what it looks like | |||
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"The problem is that people treat misogyny and misandry as equal things. They are not. Misandry hurts people's feelings Misogyny kills people ^ this is a prime example of misandry is anyone wants to see what it looks like "Damn fucking right it is | |||
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"Pot kettle black The misogyny is through the roof in this thread. The fact some can't see it show how normalised it is" Do you actually know what misogyny means? Perhaps a little google may help. | |||
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"I see more misandry on here than I do misogyny if I’m honest! Pretty much wall to wall reading at the moment!! Funny how most of us have buggered off Yep. I’ve noticed that too. It’s a shame x" It is a shame Nora! Onwards and upwards…! | |||
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"Quite confident in my knowledge thanks. " Ok do you want to point out where it’s “through the roof” on this thread then? | |||
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"Quite confident in my knowledge thanks. Ok do you want to point out where it’s “through the roof” on this thread then?" I’d like to see that too. I’ve read this entire thread and can see zero signs of misogyny. I’d be happy to be corrected in the face of actual evidence. | |||
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"The problem is that people treat misogyny and misandry as equal things. They are not. Misandry hurts people's feelings Misogyny kills people" You're allowing your own bias to cloud facts here. They are the same thing. Both hurt people's feelings and both kill people. It doesn't have to be either/or. On here, we women get pissy when we get lumped in as a group... "do women like xyz" etc. And yet so many women who get pissy do the same to men. It isn't ok either way around. I don't believe all men are good. But I don't believe all men are bad. Same goes for women, and same goes for anyone who doesn't see themselves as either. For crying out loud. I was gang r*ped by men as a teenager. I've been emotionally, mentally and physically abused by 3 out of the 5 men I've had long term relationships with and I've been assaulted a number of times by men. But I don't go into any interaction with a man thinking he is a bastard, because it is not all men. Most of the best people I know and most of the people in my life are men. And quite frankly they don't deserve to be treated like the enemy just because a minority of men are bastards. Some of the women I've known in my life have been bastards, emotionally, mentally and sometimes physical bullies. And I was sexually assaulted by a woman once too. But I don't go into any interaction with a woman thinking she is a bastard either. It shouldn't be a battle of the sexes, it should be a battle between those inherently good and those inherently bad. | |||
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"Quite confident in my knowledge thanks. Ok do you want to point out where it’s “through the roof” on this thread then?" You mean again? Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there, it Could equally mean you are just comfortable with it | |||
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"Quite confident in my knowledge thanks. Ok do you want to point out where it’s “through the roof” on this thread then? You mean again? Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there, it Could equally mean you are just comfortable with it" Or it could mean you’re the only one who can see it. Who knows | |||
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"The problem is that people treat misogyny and misandry as equal things. They are not. Misandry hurts people's feelings Misogyny kills people You're allowing your own bias to cloud facts here. They are the same thing. Both hurt people's feelings and both kill people. It doesn't have to be either/or. On here, we women get pissy when we get lumped in as a group... "do women like xyz" etc. And yet so many women who get pissy do the same to men. It isn't ok either way around. I don't believe all men are good. But I don't believe all men are bad. Same goes for women, and same goes for anyone who doesn't see themselves as either. For crying out loud. I was gang r*ped by men as a teenager. I've been emotionally, mentally and physically abused by 3 out of the 5 men I've had long term relationships with and I've been assaulted a number of times by men. But I don't go into any interaction with a man thinking he is a bastard, because it is not all men. Most of the best people I know and most of the people in my life are men. And quite frankly they don't deserve to be treated like the enemy just because a minority of men are bastards. Some of the women I've known in my life have been bastards, emotionally, mentally and sometimes physical bullies. And I was sexually assaulted by a woman once too. But I don't go into any interaction with a woman thinking she is a bastard either. It shouldn't be a battle of the sexes, it should be a battle between those inherently good and those inherently bad." I started my discourse stating it was a tiny fraction of men. But people as usual equated me talking about maybe 1% of men as attacking all men | |||
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"Pot kettle black The misogyny is through the roof in this thread. The fact some can't see it show how normalised it is" Ironic that you’re saying Pot, Kettle, Black. I’m pretty sure that nobody on here is endorsing any type of assault against women, and I, for one, absolutely condemn it. But what do you want? Should men be ashamed for being a man? Should I *apologise* for simply being a man .. when I’ve committed no crimes? Or apologise, as a man. on behalf of those men that have? Is that what you’re expecting, and anything *but* that is misogyny?  | |||
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"Pot kettle black The misogyny is through the roof in this thread. The fact some can't see it show how normalised it is Ironic that you’re saying Pot, Kettle, Black. I’m pretty sure that nobody on here is endorsing any type of assault against women, and I, for one, absolutely condemn it. But what do you want? Should men be ashamed for being a man? Should I *apologise* for simply being a man .. when I’ve committed no crimes? Or apologise, as a man. on behalf of those men that have? Is that what you’re expecting, and anything *but* that is misogyny? "Where did I say any of that? This all started because i said that a tiny fraction of men are assholes but we cannot tell which ones they are so I can understand people being careful with men. Apparently that was an attack on men | |||
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"The problem is that people treat misogyny and misandry as equal things. They are not. Misandry hurts people's feelings Misogyny kills people You're allowing your own bias to cloud facts here. They are the same thing. Both hurt people's feelings and both kill people. It doesn't have to be either/or. On here, we women get pissy when we get lumped in as a group... "do women like xyz" etc. And yet so many women who get pissy do the same to men. It isn't ok either way around. I don't believe all men are good. But I don't believe all men are bad. Same goes for women, and same goes for anyone who doesn't see themselves as either. For crying out loud. I was gang r*ped by men as a teenager. I've been emotionally, mentally and physically abused by 3 out of the 5 men I've had long term relationships with and I've been assaulted a number of times by men. But I don't go into any interaction with a man thinking he is a bastard, because it is not all men. Most of the best people I know and most of the people in my life are men. And quite frankly they don't deserve to be treated like the enemy just because a minority of men are bastards. Some of the women I've known in my life have been bastards, emotionally, mentally and sometimes physical bullies. And I was sexually assaulted by a woman once too. But I don't go into any interaction with a woman thinking she is a bastard either. It shouldn't be a battle of the sexes, it should be a battle between those inherently good and those inherently bad. I started my discourse stating it was a tiny fraction of men. But people as usual equated me talking about maybe 1% of men as attacking all men" You did. And then you incorrectly quoted the phrase "It is all men until it is no men" as being the basis for the hashtag notallmen. At least that's how I read what you said. Apologies if I'm wrong. But the statement "It is all men until it is no men" implies that your belief is that it is, in fact, all men. You then went on to erroneously state that the results of misogyny and misandry are different, that misogyny is more dangerous. Another implication that men are worse than women. My statement in support of men, indeed in support of good people, is in direct response to that. And just so we are clear, #notallmen actually comes from "not all men are like that". | |||
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" Misandry is rife in the forum at times, and it's just as bad and just as harmful as misogyny." so true and I personally find it just as vile as I find misogyny. | |||
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"The problem is that people treat misogyny and misandry as equal things. They are not. Misandry hurts people's feelings Misogyny kills people" Misandry does a lot more than hurt feelings because for so many on here it has become a mantra and a call to arms. It ruins lives and destroys trust often because some people see themselves as permanent victims and they play the strong independent role right up until they are challenged and suddenly the victim card appears and all men become cunts in the name of girlpower. The biggest problem are the sychophantic men who enable the aggressors. | |||
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"The misandry is this thread is strong. Misandry is far more widespread than misogyny. It's so ingrained in language and todays society that it's not even noticed. But please go on and continue with it. " Ok | |||
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"The problem is that people treat misogyny and misandry as equal things. They are not. Misandry hurts people's feelings Misogyny kills people ^ this is a prime example of misandry is anyone wants to see what it looks like "And it's not killing anyone. Just saying | |||
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"The problem is that people treat misogyny and misandry as equal things. They are not. Misandry hurts people's feelings Misogyny kills people You're allowing your own bias to cloud facts here. They are the same thing. Both hurt people's feelings and both kill people. It doesn't have to be either/or. On here, we women get pissy when we get lumped in as a group... "do women like xyz" etc. And yet so many women who get pissy do the same to men. It isn't ok either way around. I don't believe all men are good. But I don't believe all men are bad. Same goes for women, and same goes for anyone who doesn't see themselves as either. For crying out loud. I was gang r*ped by men as a teenager. I've been emotionally, mentally and physically abused by 3 out of the 5 men I've had long term relationships with and I've been assaulted a number of times by men. But I don't go into any interaction with a man thinking he is a bastard, because it is not all men. Most of the best people I know and most of the people in my life are men. And quite frankly they don't deserve to be treated like the enemy just because a minority of men are bastards. Some of the women I've known in my life have been bastards, emotionally, mentally and sometimes physical bullies. And I was sexually assaulted by a woman once too. But I don't go into any interaction with a woman thinking she is a bastard either. It shouldn't be a battle of the sexes, it should be a battle between those inherently good and those inherently bad." Well said | |||
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"I'm increasingly feeling having sex with men is like "sleeping with the enemy". This is a result of years of misogyny. It may be a generational problem. How do other women put this aside ? Maybe as my hormones have decreased I need sex less and so won't put up with any bullshit." The trouble is women KNOW it's not all men, it's not knowing WHICH MEN, and that is the truth of it. I'm really wary about who I connect with on here and have had some very uncomfortable moments with some men. Men need to do more to help women feel comfortable, whether that is by speaking up when a mate is being inappropriate of supporting women when we speak about our experiences with men, soryy, SOME men. | |||
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"This thread has somehow riled me. And I think I've finally realised why. In the past I've got involved in debates about violence rates and DV etc and can't be bothered to rehash all that. What has got me is the unacknowledged hypocrisy here. The OP says about past experiences and for that she has my sympathy, suffering at the hands of another is not pleasant whatever form it takes. She talks about the patriarchy and I absolutely agree that this is real and has led to huge social injustice. However, to refer to all men as "the enemy" is exactly the same gender stereotyping that she wants destroyed. Anyone who thinks of men as the enemy has exactly the same mindset as those who think of women as weak or incapable of certain roles. It is hypocritical in the extreme to complain about misogyny whilst displaying outright misandry. There's been some great comments from men on this thread but I want to especially thank the women who have called this out. It is reasonable to expect men to stick up for themselves, but it's nice to know that there are women who see through this BS. Mr" | |||
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"The problem is that people treat misogyny and misandry as equal things. They are not. Misandry hurts people's feelings Misogyny kills people ^ this is a prime example of misandry is anyone wants to see what it looks like
And it's not killing anyone. Just saying "Nor has any of the “through the roof” misogyny on here (sic) Just saying | |||
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"I'm increasingly feeling having sex with men is like "sleeping with the enemy". This is a result of years of misogyny. It may be a generational problem. How do other women put this aside ? Maybe as my hormones have decreased I need sex less and so won't put up with any bullshit. The trouble is women KNOW it's not all men, it's not knowing WHICH MEN, and that is the truth of it. I'm really wary about who I connect with on here and have had some very uncomfortable moments with some men. Men need to do more to help women feel comfortable, whether that is by speaking up when a mate is being inappropriate of supporting women when we speak about our experiences with men, soryy, SOME men." I can see that is the issue. It was enough that SOME spiders were poisonous for an evolutionary warriness of ALL spiders. And I agree men (everyone) can help reduce the bad behaviour of SOME bad eggs. However even with all the right moves by the majority of men, there will always be SOME shitty pieces of work out there. And so at some point there's some inner work to be done to accept that small risk. My reading of the OP is she has a fear of all men (hence all being the enemy) although maybe she is saying I feel this even tho o know it not to be true. I always feel with thses discussions there is a lack of empathy with "the other side". I also feel sometimes there is a lack of self cricitism. "The trouble with being right and being wrong is it feels the same" | |||
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"The problem is that people treat misogyny and misandry as equal things. They are not. Misandry hurts people's feelings Misogyny kills people ^ this is a prime example of misandry is anyone wants to see what it looks like
And it's not killing anyone. Just saying
Nor has any of the “through the roof” misogyny on here (sic)
Just saying "And you'd be right | |||
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"I'm increasingly feeling having sex with men is like "sleeping with the enemy". This is a result of years of misogyny. It may be a generational problem. How do other women put this aside ? Maybe as my hormones have decreased I need sex less and so won't put up with any bullshit. The trouble is women KNOW it's not all men, it's not knowing WHICH MEN, and that is the truth of it. I'm really wary about who I connect with on here and have had some very uncomfortable moments with some men. Men need to do more to help women feel comfortable, whether that is by speaking up when a mate is being inappropriate of supporting women when we speak about our experiences with men, soryy, SOME men." Very much this | |||
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"I'm increasingly feeling having sex with men is like "sleeping with the enemy". This is a result of years of misogyny. It may be a generational problem. How do other women put this aside ? Maybe as my hormones have decreased I need sex less and so won't put up with any bullshit. The trouble is women KNOW it's not all men, it's not knowing WHICH MEN, and that is the truth of it. I'm really wary about who I connect with on here and have had some very uncomfortable moments with some men. Men need to do more to help women feel comfortable, whether that is by speaking up when a mate is being inappropriate of supporting women when we speak about our experiences with men, soryy, SOME men.I can see that is the issue. It was enough that SOME spiders were poisonous for an evolutionary warriness of ALL spiders. And I agree men (everyone) can help reduce the bad behaviour of SOME bad eggs. However even with all the right moves by the majority of men, there will always be SOME shitty pieces of work out there. And so at some point there's some inner work to be done to accept that small risk. My reading of the OP is she has a fear of all men (hence all being the enemy) although maybe she is saying I feel this even tho o know it not to be true. I always feel with thses discussions there is a lack of empathy with "the other side". I also feel sometimes there is a lack of self cricitism. "The trouble with being right and being wrong is it feels the same" " The lack of critical thinking and compassion in a discussion online because the keyboard and screen is the barrier will always bring out the worst in a lot of people. I don't see how a little navel gazing when it comes to how we behave is a bad thing. Generalising is damaging but there are reasons that a lot of women feel threatened. I'm one of those women. It is time for change but that is met with too much resistance from the #notallmen, shouting that they're being lumped in, when it is about being compassionate and listening to women without feeling that women are somehow hateful towards men. | |||
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"I'm increasingly feeling having sex with men is like "sleeping with the enemy". This is a result of years of misogyny. It may be a generational problem. How do other women put this aside ? Maybe as my hormones have decreased I need sex less and so won't put up with any bullshit. The trouble is women KNOW it's not all men, it's not knowing WHICH MEN, and that is the truth of it. I'm really wary about who I connect with on here and have had some very uncomfortable moments with some men. Men need to do more to help women feel comfortable, whether that is by speaking up when a mate is being inappropriate of supporting women when we speak about our experiences with men, soryy, SOME men." Men don't need to do anybody. Women don't need to help men either. People only need to themselves as they are not due the labours of others. To think otherwise is entitlement. C | |||
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"I'm increasingly feeling having sex with men is like "sleeping with the enemy". This is a result of years of misogyny. It may be a generational problem. How do other women put this aside ? Maybe as my hormones have decreased I need sex less and so won't put up with any bullshit. The trouble is women KNOW it's not all men, it's not knowing WHICH MEN, and that is the truth of it. I'm really wary about who I connect with on here and have had some very uncomfortable moments with some men. Men need to do more to help women feel comfortable, whether that is by speaking up when a mate is being inappropriate of supporting women when we speak about our experiences with men, soryy, SOME men. Men don't need to do anybody. Women don't need to help men either. People only need to themselves as they are not due the labours of others. To think otherwise is entitlement. C" Hahaha Okay, this is exactly the kind of patriarchal thinking that's toxic | |||
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"You did. And then you incorrectly quoted the phrase "It is all men until it is no men" as being the basis for the hashtag notallmen. At least that's how I read what you said. Apologies if I'm wrong. But the statement "It is all men until it is no men" implies that your belief is that it is, in fact, all men. You then went on to erroneously state that the results of misogyny and misandry are different, that misogyny is more dangerous. Another implication that men are worse than women. My statement in support of men, indeed in support of good people, is in direct response to that. And just so we are clear, #notallmen actually comes from "not all men are like that"." I never mentioned or referred to the not all men statement. I referred to how until we can tell which men are the problem many women (minimum) feel they have to reat all mean as a potential threat. As for Misogyny and Misandry being the same, I have googled "can misandry kill" and I am on page ten without a single result which offers any evidence that this happens, strangely there are results about how misogyny kills, I will keep looking though. In fairness to your argument. The problem with #notallmen is it is almost always used as a kneejerk response to men being held accountable for their actions (which is not the same as misandry). Whether being spoken about as an individual or as a group. It is used to deflect and minimalize the issues of men's behaviour and how they impact women. the #notallmen while it may not have been intended that way, is a tool of misogyny. There is a phrase that is popular among some circles of social media (leftist tiktok) "only a hit dog hollers" along the same vein, "if it doesn't apply, let it fly" they are very generic sayings which are not all encompassing, but thats kind of the point. | |||
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"I'm increasingly feeling having sex with men is like "sleeping with the enemy". This is a result of years of misogyny. It may be a generational problem. How do other women put this aside ? Maybe as my hormones have decreased I need sex less and so won't put up with any bullshit. The trouble is women KNOW it's not all men, it's not knowing WHICH men, and that is the truth of it. I'm really wary about who I connect with on here and have had some very uncomfortable moments with some men. Men need to do more to help women feel comfortable, whether that is by speaking up when a mate is being inappropriate of supporting women when we speak about our experiences with men, soryy, SOME men." I understand this. On a holiday in South Africa to visit my sister who lived there I was aware that there are incredibly high rates of black on white violent crime, my sister had been the victim of attempted carjacking, she had friends/colleagues who had suffered some pretty awful stuff. The simple fact was in a predominantly white area we were far safer than in (for example) a township, if you broke down on a highway you stayed in your vehicle and called the police etc etc. Obviously there are huge and well known reasons for this disparity, massive issues with historical injustice, poverty, corruption, etc but this doesn't change the crime stats as they stand today. If my sister was to take your attitude it would be acceptable for her to simply say I know it's not all black people but I don't know which ones so I'll use skin colour as a means of assessing my safety. I personally found it hard to enjoy time in a country that while incredibly beautiful had a very real sense that race was an acceptable proxy for safety. I find it equally uncomfortable to live in a country where it seems more and more that gender is becoming exactly that. The answer is to stop thinking of the problem in terms of stereotypes. Your opening sentence makes as much sense if you substitute the word people for men. If you believe it's unfair to include 50% of people on account of them being female, why do you believe it's acceptable to include huge swathes of men who are equally as innocent? Mr | |||
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"I'm increasingly feeling having sex with men is like "sleeping with the enemy". This is a result of years of misogyny. It may be a generational problem. How do other women put this aside ? Maybe as my hormones have decreased I need sex less and so won't put up with any bullshit. The trouble is women KNOW it's not all men, it's not knowing WHICH MEN, and that is the truth of it. I'm really wary about who I connect with on here and have had some very uncomfortable moments with some men. Men need to do more to help women feel comfortable, whether that is by speaking up when a mate is being inappropriate of supporting women when we speak about our experiences with men, soryy, SOME men. Men don't need to do anybody. Women don't need to help men either. People only need to themselves as they are not due the labours of others. To think otherwise is entitlement. C Hahaha Okay, this is exactly the kind of patriarchal thinking that's toxic" can you explain why this is patrichal ratjer than any other flavour of thinking? I can't see it, but in the spirit of someone saying it is normaliswd I'm open to being educated. | |||
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"I'm increasingly feeling having sex with men is like "sleeping with the enemy". This is a result of years of misogyny. It may be a generational problem. How do other women put this aside ? Maybe as my hormones have decreased I need sex less and so won't put up with any bullshit. The trouble is women KNOW it's not all men, it's not knowing WHICH MEN, and that is the truth of it. I'm really wary about who I connect with on here and have had some very uncomfortable moments with some men. Men need to do more to help women feel comfortable, whether that is by speaking up when a mate is being inappropriate of supporting women when we speak about our experiences with men, soryy, SOME men. Men don't need to do anybody. Women don't need to help men either. People only need to themselves as they are not due the labours of others. To think otherwise is entitlement. C" I think a lot of people are at that point If I’m gonna be labelled this and that, because of my gender, then those sane people that labelled me said I had to do more. No thanks I’ll keep doing what I’m doing, and that’s not being a threat to anyone. The rest is on you. I can’t control your emotions, I can’t magically make you feel safer, especially when you’ve already labelled me. So I’ll leave you to it | |||
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"I'd hate to be considered the enemy of anyone.  "But yet, you’re a man, therefore can’t be trusted. And to say otherwise is misogynistic. That’s my takeout from this thread so far. So apologise! | |||
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"I'm increasingly feeling having sex with men is like "sleeping with the enemy". This is a result of years of misogyny. It may be a generational problem. How do other women put this aside ? Maybe as my hormones have decreased I need sex less and so won't put up with any bullshit. The trouble is women KNOW it's not all men, it's not knowing WHICH MEN, and that is the truth of it. I'm really wary about who I connect with on here and have had some very uncomfortable moments with some men. Men need to do more to help women feel comfortable, whether that is by speaking up when a mate is being inappropriate of supporting women when we speak about our experiences with men, soryy, SOME men. Men don't need to do anybody. Women don't need to help men either. People only need to themselves as they are not due the labours of others. To think otherwise is entitlement. C I think a lot of people are at that point If I’m gonna be labelled this and that, because of my gender, then those sane people that labelled me said I had to do more. No thanks I’ll keep doing what I’m doing, and that’s not being a threat to anyone. The rest is on you. I can’t control your emotions, I can’t magically make you feel safer, especially when you’ve already labelled me. So I’ll leave you to it "The ask is that men speak out against other mens bad behaviour, and to support women who have been treated badly. It is the bare fucking minimum, not some herculean challenge. | |||
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"I'm increasingly feeling having sex with men is like "sleeping with the enemy". This is a result of years of misogyny. It may be a generational problem. How do other women put this aside ? Maybe as my hormones have decreased I need sex less and so won't put up with any bullshit. The trouble is women KNOW it's not all men, it's not knowing WHICH MEN, and that is the truth of it. I'm really wary about who I connect with on here and have had some very uncomfortable moments with some men. Men need to do more to help women feel comfortable, whether that is by speaking up when a mate is being inappropriate of supporting women when we speak about our experiences with men, soryy, SOME men. Men don't need to do anybody. Women don't need to help men either. People only need to themselves as they are not due the labours of others. To think otherwise is entitlement. C I think a lot of people are at that point If I’m gonna be labelled this and that, because of my gender, then those sane people that labelled me said I had to do more. No thanks I’ll keep doing what I’m doing, and that’s not being a threat to anyone. The rest is on you. I can’t control your emotions, I can’t magically make you feel safer, especially when you’ve already labelled me. So I’ll leave you to it "isn't there a middle ground? Should I call out bad behaviour? Yes. Should I cross the road because of how others feel? A more difficult question. How much should I, a safe male (imo), go out my way because or someone else's feelings ... Where is the line ? | |||
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" Men don't need to do anybody. Women don't need to help men either. People only need to themselves as they are not due the labours of others. To think otherwise is entitlement. C Hahaha Okay, this is exactly the kind of patriarchal thinking that's toxic" How absurd to think this is toxic or even remotely as you say. Nobody owes anybody their time or energy and nobody is entitled to your mind or body. You seem to be demanding that one must devote their time to help another group. You're just wanting a modern form of sl*very. Have you thought maybe the fact you claim something bad, that it could be you? C | |||
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"I'm increasingly feeling having sex with men is like "sleeping with the enemy". This is a result of years of misogyny. It may be a generational problem. How do other women put this aside ? Maybe as my hormones have decreased I need sex less and so won't put up with any bullshit. The trouble is women KNOW it's not all men, it's not knowing WHICH MEN, and that is the truth of it. I'm really wary about who I connect with on here and have had some very uncomfortable moments with some men. Men need to do more to help women feel comfortable, whether that is by speaking up when a mate is being inappropriate of supporting women when we speak about our experiences with men, soryy, SOME men. Men don't need to do anybody. Women don't need to help men either. People only need to themselves as they are not due the labours of others. To think otherwise is entitlement. C I think a lot of people are at that point If I’m gonna be labelled this and that, because of my gender, then those sane people that labelled me said I had to do more. No thanks I’ll keep doing what I’m doing, and that’s not being a threat to anyone. The rest is on you. I can’t control your emotions, I can’t magically make you feel safer, especially when you’ve already labelled me. So I’ll leave you to it isn't there a middle ground? Should I call out bad behaviour? Yes.
Should I cross the road because of how others feel? A more difficult question. How much should I, a safe male (imo), go out my way because or someone else's feelings ... Where is the line ?"The middle ground for me is being good ti people no matter what. Not specifically going out of my way because it’s a woman that needs to be made to feel safer The middle ground is also protecting myself so that I don’t become a target when I call out other men, where I am much more likely to face to physical violence It’s apathy for me. I just don’t care. If I see someone getting beat up, I’ll help. You feel unsafe with me walking the same route? You cross the road. If a bunch of guys are being disrespectful, I’ll assess to see if me stepping in is gonna result in my head getting stomped out, then I’ll act. That’s to anyone and everyone | |||
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"I'd hate to be considered the enemy of anyone.
But yet, you’re a man, therefore can’t be trusted.
And to say otherwise is misogynistic.
That’s my takeout from this thread so far.
So apologise! "You forgot the magic rule for these people: If you criticise an individual, and that person just happens to be female, you're a misogynist. Misogyny is the hatred of women as a whole. Nothing more nor less. Funnily enough though, if a woman hates men due to personal experience then that woman is championed but reverse the genders and it becomes misogyny. Misogyny is a modern boogeyman for the cranially inept. C | |||
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"I'd hate to be considered the enemy of anyone.
But yet, you’re a man, therefore can’t be trusted.
And to say otherwise is misogynistic.
That’s my takeout from this thread so far.
So apologise!
You forgot the magic rule for these people:
If you criticise an individual, and that person just happens to be female, you're a misogynist.
Misogyny is the hatred of women as a whole. Nothing more nor less.
Funnily enough though, if a woman hates men due to personal experience then that woman is championed but reverse the genders and it becomes misogyny.
Misogyny is a modern boogeyman for the cranially inept.
C"The misogyny you refer to is more often than not fueled by a belief that are superior to women. The misandry you describe is more often fueled by the fear the man might kill or otherwise assault them. They are not the same | |||
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"I'd hate to be considered the enemy of anyone.
But yet, you’re a man, therefore can’t be trusted.
And to say otherwise is misogynistic.
That’s my takeout from this thread so far.
So apologise!
You forgot the magic rule for these people:
If you criticise an individual, and that person just happens to be female, you're a misogynist.
Misogyny is the hatred of women as a whole. Nothing more nor less.
Funnily enough though, if a woman hates men due to personal experience then that woman is championed but reverse the genders and it becomes misogyny.
Misogyny is a modern boogeyman for the cranially inept.
C
The misogyny you refer to is more often than not fueled by a belief that are superior to women.
The misandry you describe is more often fueled by the fear the man might kill or otherwise assault them.
They are not the same"Is that from your experience or are you speaking on behalf of men and women.? | |||
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"I'm increasingly feeling having sex with men is like "sleeping with the enemy". This is a result of years of misogyny. It may be a generational problem. How do other women put this aside ? Maybe as my hormones have decreased I need sex less and so won't put up with any bullshit. The trouble is women KNOW it's not all men, it's not knowing WHICH MEN, and that is the truth of it. I'm really wary about who I connect with on here and have had some very uncomfortable moments with some men. Men need to do more to help women feel comfortable, whether that is by speaking up when a mate is being inappropriate of supporting women when we speak about our experiences with men, soryy, SOME men. Men don't need to do anybody. Women don't need to help men either. People only need to themselves as they are not due the labours of others. To think otherwise is entitlement. C I think a lot of people are at that point If I’m gonna be labelled this and that, because of my gender, then those sane people that labelled me said I had to do more. No thanks I’ll keep doing what I’m doing, and that’s not being a threat to anyone. The rest is on you. I can’t control your emotions, I can’t magically make you feel safer, especially when you’ve already labelled me. So I’ll leave you to it isn't there a middle ground? Should I call out bad behaviour? Yes.
Should I cross the road because of how others feel? A more difficult question. How much should I, a safe male (imo), go out my way because or someone else's feelings ... Where is the line ?
The middle ground for me is being good ti people no matter what. Not specifically going out of my way because it’s a woman that needs to be made to feel safer
The middle ground is also protecting myself so that I don’t become a target when I call out other men, where I am much more likely to face to physical violence
It’s apathy for me. I just don’t care. If I see someone getting beat up, I’ll help. You feel unsafe with me walking the same route? You cross the road. If a bunch of guys are being disrespectful, I’ll assess to see if me stepping in is gonna result in my head getting stomped out, then I’ll act. That’s to anyone and everyone"Surely that’s how any normal person would think though? I agree with you, and the man above (can’t remember who it was). Why should you cross the road? I don’t expect a man to cross the road in case I’m scared of men! | |||
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"I'd hate to be considered the enemy of anyone.
But yet, you’re a man, therefore can’t be trusted.
And to say otherwise is misogynistic.
That’s my takeout from this thread so far.
So apologise!
You forgot the magic rule for these people:
If you criticise an individual, and that person just happens to be female, you're a misogynist.
Misogyny is the hatred of women as a whole. Nothing more nor less.
Funnily enough though, if a woman hates men due to personal experience then that woman is championed but reverse the genders and it becomes misogyny.
Misogyny is a modern boogeyman for the cranially inept.
C
The misogyny you refer to is more often than not fueled by a belief that are superior to women.
The misandry you describe is more often fueled by the fear the man might kill or otherwise assault them.
They are not the same"Not even remotely true but then I shouldn't have engaged your blatant bigotry and vitriol. C | |||
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"I'm just done. I don't understand how people don't get that the idea of "if you're not with us, you're against us", and the other ideas in this thread are just harmful, I do not understand. Misogyny and misandry are two sides of the same coin. Both are sexist. Both are bigoted, prejudiced and horrific. And neither is worse than the other. Using phrases as social media hashtags and allowing them to change the meaning of the phrase, or cause the phrase to become something it isn't, is harmful. When I say "not all men", I literally mean "not all men". Same as if I say "not all women", "not all children", "not all dogs". I think it is sad that people see something to fight everywhere they look. But yeah. I'm done."  | |||
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"I'm increasingly feeling having sex with men is like "sleeping with the enemy". This is a result of years of misogyny. It may be a generational problem. How do other women put this aside ? Maybe as my hormones have decreased I need sex less and so won't put up with any bullshit." What do you mean by misogyny ? | |||
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"I'm also done. The demonisation of people not on your side is abhorrent and has more than a few shades of a history they claim to hate. Good luck in life with that mindset, I won't be dragged down by the likes of that. I'm proud of my neutrality (and more than a few people in here) as critical thinking is clearly dying out with some people. C C" Thinking you have been neutral was just the laugh I needed, thank you for that! (that isn't a swipe, its a genuine thank you) | |||
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"I'm increasingly feeling having sex with men is like "sleeping with the enemy". This is a result of years of misogyny. It may be a generational problem. How do other women put this aside ? Maybe as my hormones have decreased I need sex less and so won't put up with any bullshit. Why are you choosing to sleep with men that must all have the same traits, knowing you are not compatible?" I'm not having sex with them to be fair and have looked for reasons why I feel less and less why this is...I merely stated I feel like it's "sleeping with the enemy". I don't think all men are the enemy, I do think some attitudes are not compatible with mine, along with some language describing women our bodies and our lives. | |||
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"I'm just done. I don't understand how people don't get that the idea of "if you're not with us, you're against us", and the other ideas in this thread are just harmful, I do not understand. Misogyny and misandry are two sides of the same coin. Both are sexist. Both are bigoted, prejudiced and horrific. And neither is worse than the other. Using phrases as social media hashtags and allowing them to change the meaning of the phrase, or cause the phrase to become something it isn't, is harmful. When I say "not all men", I literally mean "not all men". Same as if I say "not all women", "not all children", "not all dogs". I think it is sad that people see something to fight everywhere they look. But yeah. I'm done." | |||
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"I'm increasingly feeling having sex with men is like "sleeping with the enemy". This is a result of years of misogyny. It may be a generational problem. How do other women put this aside ? Maybe as my hormones have decreased I need sex less and so won't put up with any bullshit. The trouble is women KNOW it's not all men, it's not knowing WHICH MEN, and that is the truth of it. I'm really wary about who I connect with on here and have had some very uncomfortable moments with some men. Men need to do more to help women feel comfortable, whether that is by speaking up when a mate is being inappropriate of supporting women when we speak about our experiences with men, soryy, SOME men. Men don't need to do anybody. Women don't need to help men either. People only need to themselves as they are not due the labours of others. To think otherwise is entitlement. C Hahaha Okay, this is exactly the kind of patriarchal thinking that's toxiccan you explain why this is patrichal ratjer than any other flavour of thinking? I can't see it, but in the spirit of someone saying it is normaliswd I'm open to being educated. " It's neither patriarchal or toxic. I would advocate an awareness that a woman may feel a vulnerability towards men due to her emotions and experiences. I would advocate that people call out misogyny practices/beliefs in a safe educating manner if able. But agree no-one is entitled to be thus respected. | |||
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"The problem is that people treat misogyny and misandry as equal things. They are not. Misandry hurts people's feelings Misogyny kills people You're allowing your own bias to cloud facts here. They are the same thing. Both hurt people's feelings and both kill people. It doesn't have to be either/or. On here, we women get pissy when we get lumped in as a group... "do women like xyz" etc. And yet so many women who get pissy do the same to men. It isn't ok either way around. I don't believe all men are good. But I don't believe all men are bad. Same goes for women, and same goes for anyone who doesn't see themselves as either. For crying out loud. I was gang r*ped by men as a teenager. I've been emotionally, mentally and physically abused by 3 out of the 5 men I've had long term relationships with and I've been assaulted a number of times by men. But I don't go into any interaction with a man thinking he is a bastard, because it is not all men. Most of the best people I know and most of the people in my life are men. And quite frankly they don't deserve to be treated like the enemy just because a minority of men are bastards. Some of the women I've known in my life have been bastards, emotionally, mentally and sometimes physical bullies. And I was sexually assaulted by a woman once too. But I don't go into any interaction with a woman thinking she is a bastard either. It shouldn't be a battle of the sexes, it should be a battle between those inherently good and those inherently bad." | |||
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"I'd hate to be considered the enemy of anyone.
But yet, you’re a man, therefore can’t be trusted.
And to say otherwise is misogynistic.
That’s my takeout from this thread so far.
So apologise!
You forgot the magic rule for these people:
If you criticise an individual, and that person just happens to be female, you're a misogynist.
Misogyny is the hatred of women as a whole. Nothing more nor less.
Funnily enough though, if a woman hates men due to personal experience then that woman is championed but reverse the genders and it becomes misogyny.
Misogyny is a modern boogeyman for the cranially inept.
C
The misogyny you refer to is more often than not fueled by a belief that are superior to women.
The misandry you describe is more often fueled by the fear the man might kill or otherwise assault them.
They are not the same"Calling out people who show toxic behaviour has been mentioned a lot on this thread.... You belittle everything male and the above is an example of that. Do you believe in any equality at all? | |||
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"I'd hate to be considered the enemy of anyone.
But yet, you’re a man, therefore can’t be trusted.
And to say otherwise is misogynistic.
That’s my takeout from this thread so far.
So apologise!
You forgot the magic rule for these people:
If you criticise an individual, and that person just happens to be female, you're a misogynist.
Misogyny is the hatred of women as a whole. Nothing more nor less.
Funnily enough though, if a woman hates men due to personal experience then that woman is championed but reverse the genders and it becomes misogyny.
Misogyny is a modern boogeyman for the cranially inept.
C
The misogyny you refer to is more often than not fueled by a belief that are superior to women.
The misandry you describe is more often fueled by the fear the man might kill or otherwise assault them.
They are not the same
Calling out people who show toxic behaviour has been mentioned a lot on this thread.... You belittle everything male and the above is an example of that.
Do you believe in any equality at all? "I don't think that is belittling everything male. I believe in equality unfortunately we are far from that in this society or the world. Thankyou for all the posts, it's been truly interesting. | |||
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