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White plus Red Poppies - why the problem (?)

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I personally wear both a white and a red poppy at this time of year, and purely a white one at variant other times in the calendar. The White represents ALL dead and a hope for peace. The reason that I also wear the red one at this time of year is that I personally feel that I don't wish to offend what's generally seen as a more common poppy at this time of year and that society perhaps as a whole doesn't fully appreciate yet what the white poppy means - but the white one means so much more to me as it represents a desire for peace. Yet thrice in the past year people have verbally attacked this as being 'offensive' I'm perplexed as to where they'coming from? How could a symbol which represents ALL killed because of war (aka: greedy leaders and rich businesess-men's desire for more at the expense of the masses) (90% of whom are civilians) and a desire for no more wars as being 'offensive'?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm a bit of a traditionalist, each to their own but it's a red poppy in November for me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I can't see how anyone can see the white poppy as being offensive! silly yes but offensive never. wear with pride of that's what you believe in.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

That's fully and absolutely respected I just don't see why I've been verbally attacked for wearing an alternative one at other times

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By *uby In StockingsTV/TS
over a year ago

Cheadle

It's exactly the same reason why some people attack swingers, lack of education hun, xxx

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

"Silly"

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Thanks Ruby -

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

When you say


"Yet thrice in the past year people have verbally attacked this as being 'offensive' "

do you mean thrice in the last few weeks?

You don't actually wear two poppies all year round, do you?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

No, in the past year I've worn white on occasion only. Recently I've worn both.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

WW1 saw men used as cannon fodder and shot for cowardice when they were suffering from shell shock. I see no glory in that and that's why I never buy a poppy.

I remember our fallen troops from all campaigns in my own way.

RIP.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"WW1 saw men used as cannon fodder and shot for cowardice when they were suffering from shell shock. I see no glory in that and that's why I never buy a poppy.

I remember our fallen troops from all campaigns in my own way.

RIP."

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

The poppy campaign isn't just about the fallen.

How anyone chooses to spend, or not to spend, their money is entirely their own affair.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

yes silly, hoping for peace, it's a nice idea but flawed. it's like hoping for no more car crashes, or a dry summer. both nice ideas but never likely to happen. best start with an end to religion, it's a good start.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"yes silly, hoping for peace...."

And there we have it...oh dear! Well, goodnight folks and PEACE to all

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"yes silly, hoping for peace, it's a nice idea but flawed. it's like hoping for no more car crashes, or a dry summer. both nice ideas but never likely to happen. best start with an end to religion, it's a good start."

That'd get my vote.

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

personally i have neve put red and white flowers together on there own together especially in the house always has to have another colour.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"yes silly, hoping for peace, it's a nice idea but flawed. it's like hoping for no more car crashes, or a dry summer. both nice ideas but never likely to happen. best start with an end to religion, it's a good start.

That'd get my vote. "

I thought we (the UK) were making progress towards that but the coverage of Welby's 'elevation' to Canterbury suggests the insanity will continue.

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland


"WW1 saw men used as cannon fodder and shot for cowardice when they were suffering from shell shock. I see no glory in that and that's why I never buy a poppy.

I remember our fallen troops from all campaigns in my own way.

RIP."

Poppies are nothing to do with glorifying war dont know where you got that idea they are to remember the fallen and raise money for those who survived

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i think anyone who has a problem with people wearing the poppy should leave the country.

this is the way we remember and give thanks for those who died protecting our freedoms.

and i reckon those who complain about the wearing of poppy's would be worse off under hitler.

remember how lucky you are!

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"personally i have neve put red and white flowers together on there own together especially in the house always has to have another colour."

That rather misses the point.

There was a thread elsewhere a while back about 'my favourite flower'. My favourite is the forget-me-not.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"yes silly, hoping for peace....

And there we have it...oh dear! Well, goodnight folks and PEACE to all

"

kinda cute though, wonder if miss world wears one?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I never knew a white poppy existed till someone I knew wore one and explained to em the meaning of it. I would wear one with pride however I like the red ones better!

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire


"personally i have neve put red and white flowers together on there own together especially in the house always has to have another colour.

That rather misses the point.

There was a thread elsewhere a while back about 'my favourite flower'. My favourite is the forget-me-not."
red and white signifies blood and bandages, its probley my main superstition

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"WW1 saw men used as cannon fodder and shot for cowardice when they were suffering from shell shock. I see no glory in that and that's why I never buy a poppy.

I remember our fallen troops from all campaigns in my own way.

RIP.

Poppies are nothing to do with glorifying war dont know where you got that idea they are to remember the fallen and raise money for those who survived"

Please don't take this as being argumentative as that's not why I saying how I feel about it. I think the way I do because it was ingrained in me at school from an early age. 11th hour, 11th day, 11th year etc.. We HAD to wear poppies in our school, omission wasn't an option, and it was always done to remember the fallen as heroes. That's how I was raised and I rebelled against it when I started reading up on how men were shot as cowards when they were really suffering from shell-shock (and all those men have only recently been pardoned for cowardice, well, gee thanks, fat lot of good it did them then or now).

On Rememberance Day I go down to the memorial that just happens to be at the bottom of our streetand I just whisper 'Thank you' and walk away again.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Without Googling, does anyone know where the money from sales of white poppies go?

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By *hole Lotta RosieWoman
over a year ago

Deviant City

never seen a white poppy, although heard about them. Have yet to see them on sale too.

Always worn a red poppy since being a lil nipper and will always continue to wear one with pride.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Without Googling, does anyone know where the money from sales of white poppies go?"

It doesn't raise enough money to cover much more than the cost of producing white poppies. The PPU state that their total annual turnover is less than the £95,000 paid to the head of the British Legion.

It does seem that the PPU is more of a political movement aimed at decoupling Rememberance/Armistace Day from the continual drive to war that successive governments have undertaken in the defence of our realm. It's a tad naive to promote peace by de-arming ourselves as our enemies will see that as a weakness. While men have great divisions among them there also war will be great. It's a sad but inevitable fact of life that thousands of men will fight wars to settle differences between just a few of them.

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland


"WW1 saw men used as cannon fodder and shot for cowardice when they were suffering from shell shock. I see no glory in that and that's why I never buy a poppy.

I remember our fallen troops from all campaigns in my own way.

RIP.

Poppies are nothing to do with glorifying war dont know where you got that idea they are to remember the fallen and raise money for those who survived

Please don't take this as being argumentative as that's not why I saying how I feel about it. I think the way I do because it was ingrained in me at school from an early age. 11th hour, 11th day, 11th year etc.. We HAD to wear poppies in our school, omission wasn't an option, and it was always done to remember the fallen as heroes. That's how I was raised and I rebelled against it when I started reading up on how men were shot as cowards when they were really suffering from shell-shock (and all those men have only recently been pardoned for cowardice, well, gee thanks, fat lot of good it did them then or now).

On Rememberance Day I go down to the memorial that just happens to be at the bottom of our streetand I just whisper 'Thank you' and walk away again."

WW1 was a particularly brutal war where men were made to walk into machine gun fire wave after wave it is apity the christmas truce did not spread among all the opposing armies as they had the power to stop and go home but some of the men who tried to stop it for good were also executed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"WW1 saw men used as cannon fodder and shot for cowardice when they were suffering from shell shock. I see no glory in that and that's why I never buy a poppy.

I remember our fallen troops from all campaigns in my own way.

RIP.

Poppies are nothing to do with glorifying war dont know where you got that idea they are to remember the fallen and raise money for those who survived

Please don't take this as being argumentative as that's not why I saying how I feel about it. I think the way I do because it was ingrained in me at school from an early age. 11th hour, 11th day, 11th year etc.. We HAD to wear poppies in our school, omission wasn't an option, and it was always done to remember the fallen as heroes. That's how I was raised and I rebelled against it when I started reading up on how men were shot as cowards when they were really suffering from shell-shock (and all those men have only recently been pardoned for cowardice, well, gee thanks, fat lot of good it did them then or now).

On Rememberance Day I go down to the memorial that just happens to be at the bottom of our streetand I just whisper 'Thank you' and walk away again.

WW1 was a particularly brutal war where men were made to walk into machine gun fire wave after wave it is apity the christmas truce did not spread among all the opposing armies as they had the power to stop and go home but some of the men who tried to stop it for good were also executed."

The ranks were _iewed as nothing more than an opportunity for General Haig to move his drinks cabinet 6' closer to Berlin (ok, nicked that from Blackadder, but the sentiment rings true.)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Interesting fact (nothing to do with poppies) during the second world war the Russians (Stalin) killed more of their own people than the allies lost in total during the conflict!! Nothing to do with the war just shooting etc anyone thought not to be "red" enough!

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Uncle Joe had a lot to answer for and between him and his temporary partner in crime, Adolf, it probably amounts to some 20 million Russians lost.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"i think anyone who has a problem with people wearing the poppy should leave the country.

this is the way we remember and give thanks for those who died protecting our freedoms.

and i reckon those who complain about the wearing of poppy's would be worse off under hitler.

remember how lucky you are!

"

These people dies protecting our freedoms....freedom to choose whether we wear a poppy or not being one of them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

yep you can't deny they do know how to die in their millions! I did see a program that reckoned that's why russian men are so odd looking, because all the good fit ones were killed!

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"yep you can't deny they do know how to die in their millions! I did see a program that reckoned that's why russian men are so odd looking, because all the good fit ones were killed!"

That's not big and it's not clever. There's Plain in Salisbury too, you know.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I personally wear both a white and a red poppy at this time of year, and purely a white one at variant other times in the calendar. The White represents ALL dead and a hope for peace. The reason that I also wear the red one at this time of year is that I personally feel that I don't wish to offend what's generally seen as a more common poppy at this time of year and that society perhaps as a whole doesn't fully appreciate yet what the white poppy means - but the white one means so much more to me as it represents a desire for peace. Yet thrice in the past year people have verbally attacked this as being 'offensive' I'm perplexed as to where they'coming from? How could a symbol which represents ALL killed because of war (aka: greedy leaders and rich businesess-men's desire for more at the expense of the masses) (90% of whom are civilians) and a desire for no more wars as being 'offensive'? "

I was told apparently there is a purple poppy, to remember the animals that died in war. I guess the animals had less of a choice whether to be involved in warfare than humans did. Never seen a non-red poppy, I'd happily wear all 3.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"bombing for peace is like fucking for virginity" where did I read that?

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

King's Crustacean


""bombing for peace is like fucking for virginity" where did I read that?"

No idea but I do like it.....

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

King's Crustacean


"I personally wear both a white and a red poppy at this time of year, and purely a white one at variant other times in the calendar. The White represents ALL dead and a hope for peace. The reason that I also wear the red one at this time of year is that I personally feel that I don't wish to offend what's generally seen as a more common poppy at this time of year and that society perhaps as a whole doesn't fully appreciate yet what the white poppy means - but the white one means so much more to me as it represents a desire for peace. Yet thrice in the past year people have verbally attacked this as being 'offensive' I'm perplexed as to where they'coming from? How could a symbol which represents ALL killed because of war (aka: greedy leaders and rich businesess-men's desire for more at the expense of the masses) (90% of whom are civilians) and a desire for no more wars as being 'offensive'?

I was told apparently there is a purple poppy, to remember the animals that died in war. I guess the animals had less of a choice whether to be involved in warfare than humans did. Never seen a non-red poppy, I'd happily wear all 3."

Yes there are purple poppies for all the animals that suffered. You can get them at animal aid.

The money goes to the relatives of the animals so that they can live out the rest of their lives without too much hardship.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"............

Yes there are purple poppies for all the animals that suffered. You can get them at animal aid.

The money goes to the relatives of the animals so that they can live out the rest of their lives without too much hardship. "

LOLOLOLOLOL.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

King's Crustacean

Oh well okay ............ the second bit was a lie. The first bit is true tho

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


""bombing for peace is like fucking for virginity" where did I read that?"

There's an argument that carpet bombing eg Dresden shortened the war in Europe. There's probably less disagreement that nukeing (sp) Hiroshima and Nagasaki shortened the war in the Far East.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


""bombing for peace is like fucking for virginity" where did I read that?

There's an argument that carpet bombing eg Dresden shortened the war in Europe. There's probably less disagreement that nukeing (sp) Hiroshima and Nagasaki shortened the war in the Far East."

I think it's more about illustrating the ultimate futility of war rather than a literal statement.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


""bombing for peace is like fucking for virginity" where did I read that?

There's an argument that carpet bombing eg Dresden shortened the war in Europe. There's probably less disagreement that nukeing (sp) Hiroshima and Nagasaki shortened the war in the Far East.

I think it's more about illustrating the ultimate futility of war rather than a literal statement."

IS war ultimately futile or do we have to accept it's a necessary evil?

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


""bombing for peace is like fucking for virginity" where did I read that?

There's an argument that carpet bombing eg Dresden shortened the war in Europe. There's probably less disagreement that nukeing (sp) Hiroshima and Nagasaki shortened the war in the Far East.

I think it's more about illustrating the ultimate futility of war rather than a literal statement.

IS war ultimately futile or do we have to accept it's a necessary evil?"

That's a question I couldn't possibly claim to know the answer to. I do know that millions of people are killed pursuing a peace that is eventually brokered by men sitting round a table. I know it isn't that simple and I know that the human race is war like by nature but when I see pictures of 20 year old men on tv that have been killed I wonder what it's all about.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


""bombing for peace is like fucking for virginity" where did I read that?

There's an argument that carpet bombing eg Dresden shortened the war in Europe. There's probably less disagreement that nukeing (sp) Hiroshima and Nagasaki shortened the war in the Far East.

I think it's more about illustrating the ultimate futility of war rather than a literal statement.

IS war ultimately futile or do we have to accept it's a necessary evil?

That's a question I couldn't possibly claim to know the answer to. I do know that millions of people are killed pursuing a peace that is eventually brokered by men sitting round a table. I know it isn't that simple and I know that the human race is war like by nature but when I see pictures of 20 year old men on tv that have been killed I wonder what it's all about."

Was declaring war on Germany in 1939 in defence of Poland futile? Should we just have sat back and allowed Nazi tyranny to flourish?

There's a good argument that if more of us had stood against Franco a few years earlier WWII wouldn't have happened.

Sometimes you have to stand up and be counted.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

King's Crustacean

and sometimes you have to recognized when you are being bullshitted into fighting someone elses cause.....

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


""bombing for peace is like fucking for virginity" where did I read that?

There's an argument that carpet bombing eg Dresden shortened the war in Europe. There's probably less disagreement that nukeing (sp) Hiroshima and Nagasaki shortened the war in the Far East.

I think it's more about illustrating the ultimate futility of war rather than a literal statement.

IS war ultimately futile or do we have to accept it's a necessary evil?

That's a question I couldn't possibly claim to know the answer to. I do know that millions of people are killed pursuing a peace that is eventually brokered by men sitting round a table. I know it isn't that simple and I know that the human race is war like by nature but when I see pictures of 20 year old men on tv that have been killed I wonder what it's all about.

Was declaring war on Germany in 1939 in defence of Poland futile? Should we just have sat back and allowed Nazi tyranny to flourish?

There's a good argument that if more of us had stood against Franco a few years earlier WWII wouldn't have happened.

Sometimes you have to stand up and be counted."

I agree you do have to stand up and be counted. I'm saying I wonder what its all about and why the human race is like it is...that's all

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Conscription in the UK ended c1960. All are volunteers and have taken the shilling without menaces (save for a few 'directed' into uniform by the criminal justice system).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Both myself and dave served in the army and he saw active service. We will wear our poppies with pride,.and be there on parade sunday to remember friends we lost, and those still fighting. . God bless you all x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Humanity isn't exactly steeped in glory during the 20th Century but the true futility of war isn't that it doesn't solve anything, it is because wars are started because men couldn't sit round a table and talk, yet wars are ended because men *do* sit round a table and talk. How does a parent of a dead son come to terms with that?

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

remember those who have fallen in any way you see fit, the importance is in the remembering, not the adornment.

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By *edangel_2013Woman
over a year ago

southend

Don't know of anyone has said this previously, it's early and I've just woken up.

But red and white flowers are symbolic of blood on bandages. My Nanna used to refuse to have red and white flowers in the same room, let alone the same vase., brings bad luck.

Personally I think it's a bit of hookam, but each to their own!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I had never heard of the white poppies before reading this thread. I see nothing wrong with wishing there could be peace in the world but like many people also see the impossibilty of it

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"and sometimes you have to recognized when you are being bullshitted into fighting someone elses cause....."

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"Humanity isn't exactly steeped in glory during the 20th Century but the true futility of war isn't that it doesn't solve anything, it is because wars are started because men couldn't sit round a table and talk, yet wars are ended because men *do* sit round a table and talk. How does a parent of a dead son come to terms with that?

"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I personally wear both a white and a red poppy at this time of year, and purely a white one at variant other times in the calendar. The White represents ALL dead and a hope for peace. The reason that I also wear the red one at this time of year is that I personally feel that I don't wish to offend what's generally seen as a more common poppy at this time of year and that society perhaps as a whole doesn't fully appreciate yet what the white poppy means - but the white one means so much more to me as it represents a desire for peace. Yet thrice in the past year people have verbally attacked this as being 'offensive' I'm perplexed as to where they'coming from? How could a symbol which represents ALL killed because of war (aka: greedy leaders and rich businesess-men's desire for more at the expense of the masses) (90% of whom are civilians) and a desire for no more wars as being 'offensive'? "
The red poppies are worn to show respect for those who made the supreme scarifice in order that you can wear a white poppy without being villified for you _iews. Wear your poppy (whatever the colour) with pride.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I posted something similar in my own thread so apologies to anyone who read it.

Red is to symbolise ALL the fallen. They haven't ALL earned my respect for example those who kill innocent civilians and those who join the army now, simply to "kill Muslims"

The guys in the WW's who were killed either for opposing war or being shell shocked (as another poster mentioned) are the ones who I'll be remembering most.

The last living WWI veteran (who's name escapes me at the moment) told of when he came face to face with the enemy and shot him in the leg, injuring, but not killing him. He will be remembered by me.

I will not be wearing a red poppy for the above reasons but will wear my purple one.

And for anyone wanting a purple one, get the metal badge! The colour on the cloth poppy runs when you get caught in a very heavy rain storm and ruins your nice new coat

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Conscription in the UK ended c1960. All are volunteers and have taken the shilling without menaces (save for a few 'directed' into uniform by the criminal justice system)."

There are 8 weapons that are used against us on a daily basis and most people are oblivious to what they are:

1. Force

2. Fear

3. Guilt

4. Lies/Misinformation

5. Duty/Honour/Fairness

6. Sacrifice/Altruism

7. Image Manipulation

8. Approval

All the above weapons are used by the people who control us in order to control us.

If you take the case of WW1, young men were encouraged into joining up to fight by Lord Kitchener's pointing 'Britain Needs You' poster, yet when these young men enlisted they were treated as though they were cattle and sent to slaughter in Flanders, Ypres, and The Somme. The weapon used against them was not bombs and bullets per se, but Duty & Honour, and failure to enlist was regarded as an act of cowardice.

WW2 saw the introduction of the National Service (Armed Forces) Act which required all men between the ages of 18-40 to undergo military training in preparation for call-up. Some 60,000 people objected conscientiously and of those 3,000 were granted unconditional exemption from military service, 29,000 were granted conditional exemption (they had to work in a non-combatant role or in reserved occupations vital to the war effort.) 18,000 cases of conscientious objection were dismissed completely as 'not genuine'.

By the end of WW2, about 5,000 men and 500 women had been charged with offences to do with conscientious objection, and most of them were sent to prison. A further 1,000 or more were court-martialled and given prison sentences for refusing to obey military orders.

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By *londeCazWoman
over a year ago

Arse End of the Universe, Cumbria

I didn't know about white or purple poppies till I read this thread...I wear my red poppy with pride every year (and I've finally got round to getting a crystal brooch as well as the 17 or so paper poppies I always buy!) Have just looked online for a purple poppy, but the brooches are out of stock at the moment...as others have said, white and red flowers are considered bad luck so I can't wear both together, but if I saw white for sale, I would contribute to the cause for peace though I feel we are still not far enough evolved for that to occur

They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old:

Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.

At the going down of the sun and in the morning

We will remember them

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

A white poppy is fine. However, many people may not realise that paying for a red poppy is contributing to BLESMA- the British Limbless Es-servicemen's Association which aids those injured in war and is run by the Royal British Legion. Many of these victims are elderly people now, some in BLESMA homes and this charity supports them as the government does pitifully little.

Where does the money for white poppies go?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Wear whatever makes you happy. Xx

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

Just googled it. The money for white poppies does not go to charity. It is sold as a marketing ploy for the Peace Pledge Union which is a business and does not have charitable status.

Where the white poppy by all means, but do not do so in ignorance of what it genuinely represents - profit.

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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville


"A white poppy is fine. However, many people may not realise that paying for a red poppy is contributing to BLESMA- the British Limbless Es-servicemen's Association which aids those injured in war and is run by the Royal British Legion. Many of these victims are elderly people now, some in BLESMA homes and this charity supports them as the government does pitifully little.

Where does the money for white poppies go?"

The money from white poppy sales go to the PPU ; the Peace Pledge Union, which is a commercial organisation, a business not a charity to help ex service men.

It is run purely for profit.

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

*Wear

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Where does the money from white or purple poppies go? The money from red poppies goes directly to the Royal British Legion where it is distributed to ex servicemen and their families who require help. I do not agree with war, but our lives would be so different today had men and women not given their lives for us in conflict and I feel we should honour those that serve to protect us. As a point of reflection 1961 was the last year a British serviceman or woman did not die in active service.

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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville


"Wear whatever makes you happy. Xx"

Besides a show of remembrance, the main purpose of the poppy appeal is to raise much needed money to allow those affected by military action both domestic and foreign a quality of life.

The white poppy, is basically a marketing scam lining some industrialists' pockets. Not those who need it, put it was designed for.

Wear what you like, but know what you are wearing.

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By *riskynriskyCouple
over a year ago

Essex.

Going back to basics. The red poppy was the first flowers to return to the battle fields.

So white and purple have just been made up.

I like many would love peace but it's not in human nature...

As to those who won't wear a red poppy that is your right, many men died so you can have that right. However those people who won't wear one because of the treatment of troops back in WW1, I feel have got it wrong.

Kitchener and Haig ran the war as they had been trained. The problem was they were trained using the same tactics as Wellintons army, however they were not facing the same weapons as Wellinton which led to high casualties.

I think we need to learn lessons from history however we should be carefull of judging them by todays standards.

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

Purple poppies are to commemorate animals who have died as a result of war. The money goes to Animal Aid.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Only ever been aware of red.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I do not wear a red poppy to glorify any war I do not wear one to be part of society I do not wear one because I believe in heros I wear on because I know first hand how the money raised by the sales helps so many. As been said before know what you are buying and why the royal British legion do so much for so many. Not just the serving or ex military but for the families and also help other countries torn apart by war. As for the purple poppy I love the sentiment but the money does nothing for what it signifies I always try and get to the animal memorial in London to show my respect for all that have died both human and animal so we have the right to express our options

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 10/11/12 12:23:28]

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

White poppies are nothing new and were 'created' by those who were killd's loved ones as a statement that war is not an inevitable.

I can't see why there should be a problem with the white poppy/people should be 'offended' by it - perhaps without knowing its' origins and what it stands for.

The following is an explanation for those who may not be aware - explains it well and no reason for 'offence':

In 1926, a few years after the introduction of the red poppy in the UK, the idea of pacifists making their own poppies was put forward by a member of the No More War Movement (and that the black centre of the British Legion's red poppies should be imprinted with "No More War"). Their intention was to remember casualties of all wars, with the added meaning of a hope for the end of all wars; the red poppy, they felt, signified only the British military dead. However they did not pursue the idea. The first white poppies were sold by the Co-operative Women's Guild in 1933. The Peace Pledge Union (PPU) took part in their distribution from 1934, and white poppy wreaths were laid from 1937 as a pledge to peace that war must not happen again. Anti-war organisations such as the Anglican Pacifist Fellowship now support the White Poppy Movement.

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

I thought it started in 1920.

However, be that as it may, the money does not go to charity.

I have no problem with people wearing a white poppy as long as they fully understand all aspects.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"White poppies are nothing new and were 'created' by those who were killd's loved ones as a statement that war is not an inevitable.

I can't see why there should be a problem with the white poppy/people should be 'offended' by it - perhaps without knowing its' origins and what it stands for.

The following is an explanation for those who may not be aware - explains it well and no reason for 'offence':

In 1926, a few years after the introduction of the red poppy in the UK, the idea of pacifists making their own poppies was put forward by a member of the No More War Movement (and that the black centre of the British Legion's red poppies should be imprinted with "No More War"). Their intention was to remember casualties of all wars, with the added meaning of a hope for the end of all wars; the red poppy, they felt, signified only the British military dead. However they did not pursue the idea. The first white poppies were sold by the Co-operative Women's Guild in 1933. The Peace Pledge Union (PPU) took part in their distribution from 1934, and white poppy wreaths were laid from 1937 as a pledge to peace that war must not happen again. Anti-war organisations such as the Anglican Pacifist Fellowship now support the White Poppy Movement.

"

As a symbol it's a cute idea but it really doesn't help anyone and I think that's the point a lot of people are trying to make. The red poppy is for all war dead look at history those who fought with the British Canadian polish American Indian to name but a few.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I dont see what difference it makes what colour the poppy is, surely its the sentiment behind why your wearing it that counts, your still remembering and paying respect regardless of the colour

Infact i dont even wear a poppy but that does not mean i dont appreciate what all those that died did for this country, it just means i dont feel the need to advertise it to the world by wearing a poppy, you can still remember them regardless

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I dont see what difference it makes what colour the poppy is, surely its the sentiment behind why your wearing it that counts, your still remembering and paying respect regardless of the colour

Infact i dont even wear a poppy but that does not mean i dont appreciate what all those that died did for this country, it just means i dont feel the need to advertise it to the world by wearing a poppy, you can still remember them regardless "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I find some of the reasons for not wearing a red poppy or choosing to don a white version as some kind of anti war statement here totaly bizzare. The poppy is to remember the fallen. Whether you agree with the wars or not should have absolutely no bearing onthe fact that the hundreds of thousands of troops thats gave their lives. Troops thats had no choice. It's about remembering Them. . not the politics that put them into that position. In my opinion, the white poppy is a fecking disgrace to be sold at this time of year . .hijacking what should be a poiniant,humbling and gratefull time for all and those that choose to don the white one (money making excersise on the back of a charitable one)should take a good hard look at themselves . . just my opinion (Mr)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I find some of the reasons for not wearing a red poppy or choosing to don a white version as some kind of anti war statement here totaly bizzare. The poppy is to remember the fallen. Whether you agree with the wars or not should have absolutely no bearing onthe fact that the hundreds of thousands of troops thats gave their lives. Troops thats had no choice. It's about remembering Them. . not the politics that put them into that position. In my opinion, the white poppy is a fecking disgrace to be sold at this time of year . .hijacking what should be a poiniant,humbling and gratefull time for all and those that choose to don the white one (money making excersise on the back of a charitable one)should take a good hard look at themselves . . just my opinion (Mr)"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sorry to post again but just been having a good look at the ppu site and must say I can see why an educated person would see it as offensive really some of the crap they are spouting is unreal. Teey have hijacked a symbol of peace for there own political agenda

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Sorry to post again but just been having a good look at the ppu site and must say I can see why an educated person would see it as offensive really some of the crap they are spouting is unreal. Teey have hijacked a symbol of peace for there own political agenda "

That was my impression of them too. I didn't know about the white poppies before (although I had seen one or two about) but having read the PPU site I'll not be supporting it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Think you will find it was the British Legion that hi-jacked the poppy appeal.

Pre 1994 all poppies had "HAIGH APPEAL" in the black centre piece.

Was originally a means of getting peoples money to pay for a war.

Nothing to do with giving to those that had survived or were injured.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Think you will find it was the British Legion that hi-jacked the poppy appeal.

Pre 1994 all poppies had "HAIGH APPEAL" in the black centre piece.

Was originally a means of getting peoples money to pay for a war.

Nothing to do with giving to those that had survived or were injured."

Please do your research

The Haig Fund (more properly the Earl Haig Fund) is a charity set up in 1921 by Field Marshal Douglas Haig, 1st Earl Haig to assist ex-servicemen. Today, the Haig Fund continues to support veterans from all conflicts and other military actions involving British Armed Forces up to today. Its members sell remembrance poppies in the weeks before Remembrance Day/Armistice Day. The words Haig Fund are no longer inscribed in the centre of each poppy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Think you will find it was the British Legion that hi-jacked the poppy appeal.

Pre 1994 all poppies had "HAIGH APPEAL" in the black centre piece.

Was originally a means of getting peoples money to pay for a war.

Nothing to do with giving to those that had survived or were injured.

Please do your research

The Haig Fund (more properly the Earl Haig Fund) is a charity set up in 1921 by Field Marshal Douglas Haig, 1st Earl Haig to assist ex-servicemen. Today, the Haig Fund continues to support veterans from all conflicts and other military actions involving British Armed Forces up to today. Its members sell remembrance poppies in the weeks before Remembrance Day/Armistice Day. The words Haig Fund are no longer inscribed in the centre of each poppy.

"
Beat me to it lol . . To fund wars pmsl

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Think you will find it was the British Legion that hi-jacked the poppy appeal.

Pre 1994 all poppies had "HAIGH APPEAL" in the black centre piece.

Was originally a means of getting peoples money to pay for a war.

Nothing to do with giving to those that had survived or were injured."

Sorry Robbo, but that's not correct. The Poppy was taken over by the RBL in 1921 after a woman started the idea off her own back the previous year.

The reason Haig's name appeared in the centre of the poppy until 1994 is that Field Marshall Haig was one of the founders of the RBL and he put himself forward to be in charge of the fund which administers monies collected - hence 'Haig Fund'.

At no time has ANY money collected during the Poppy Appeal been used to 'fund a war'....

Pork

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Think you will find it was the British Legion that hi-jacked the poppy appeal.

Pre 1994 all poppies had "HAIGH APPEAL" in the black centre piece.

Was originally a means of getting peoples money to pay for a war.

Nothing to do with giving to those that had survived or were injured.

Sorry Robbo, but that's not correct. The Poppy was taken over by the RBL in 1921 after a woman started the idea off her own back the previous year.

The reason Haig's name appeared in the centre of the poppy until 1994 is that Field Marshall Haig was one of the founders of the RBL and he put himself forward to be in charge of the fund which administers monies collected - hence 'Haig Fund'.

At no time has ANY money collected during the Poppy Appeal been used to 'fund a war'....

Pork"

Also you may like to know that the poppy factory employed ex service men to make them when they could not get jobs elsewhere due to being injured. Or that the poppy idea started in America by a housewife. Yes I have took the time to really understand what I'm talking about.

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

Red poppy for me and 2 mins silence on 11 November. Some of my ancestors died in both wars and if it hadn't been for them, this post might have been written in German.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am sorry for my remarks and ment no offense.

Haigh was responsible for countless deaths though.

I am aware of the factory in Richmond, have visited many years ago.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Think you will find it was the British Legion that hi-jacked the poppy appeal.

Pre 1994 all poppies had "HAIGH APPEAL" in the black centre piece.

Was originally a means of getting peoples money to pay for a war.

Nothing to do with giving to those that had survived or were injured.

Sorry Robbo, but that's not correct. The Poppy was taken over by the RBL in 1921 after a woman started the idea off her own back the previous year.

The reason Haig's name appeared in the centre of the poppy until 1994 is that Field Marshall Haig was one of the founders of the RBL and he put himself forward to be in charge of the fund which administers monies collected - hence 'Haig Fund'.

At no time has ANY money collected during the Poppy Appeal been used to 'fund a war'....

Pork

Also you may like to know that the poppy factory employed ex service men to make them when they could not get jobs elsewhere due to being injured. Or that the poppy idea started in America by a housewife. Yes I have took the time to really understand what I'm talking about. "

Yes - know all that. Like you - I made time to find out what the poppy represents, it's beginnings and what the money raised is used for. RBL used to do work for me 'in another life' - got nothing but respect for them.

On the subject of the white poppy, I think the animosity towards it is due to 'some' veterans who did not understand what it represents when it first got a wave of publicity back in the 70's. Think some of them saw it as something of an affront to what they were doing.

But wars affect ALL - not just service people or combatants - and all those who lost their lives deserve to be remembered... regardless of which side they fought on OR their _iews at the time.

Pork

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I always give to the collection.

But never wear a poppy of any colour.

After a visit to Normandy and Holland in 1972 and seeing so many graves in one place, i couldnt think of anything that would be suitable to say or wear.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"i think anyone who has a problem with people wearing the poppy should leave the country.

this is the way we remember and give thanks for those who died protecting our freedoms.

and i reckon those who complain about the wearing of poppy's would be worse off under hitler.

remember how lucky you are!

"

I think anyone who thinks like this should leave the country. All this national chauvenism is what causes bloody wars in the first place.

Take all the national chauvenists from all countries in the world, put them all together on an uninhabited island and let them blow each other to pieces. Then the rest of us can live in peace.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No offence taken robbo. He may have been but at the time he made those decisions non of us was at his side so we don't know how he come to the decisions he made I'm sure wether right or wrong they stayed with him all his life.

What he did do though was set up something amazing to help all those that survived and a lot more after please take a look at what the RBL do. The red poppy has never been political and was born out of the fields that or boys gave their life in the idea and symbology still hold true.

I have lost many brothers over the years in different conflicts paying for a few paper flowers that help so many doesn't seem like to much to do. And I will stand shoulder to shoulder tomorrow with my poppy and medals. To mourn the greatest sacrifice that any one can give for the things we all take for granted.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I admire anyone that stands up and fights for what they believe in.

When my parents took us to France and Holland to see the graves of relatives, I was expecting another old graveyard.

What I saw was a scene that has stayed with me ever since.

I think more people should go and pay a visit, its the only way you can understand how many didn't come home and gave everything for those at home.

I shall give my 2 minutes and swallow hard thinking of those brave men and women.

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

You could rephrase your last paragraph.

I've been to a cemetery in Normandy...8000 graves....speechless....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"You could rephrase your last paragraph.

I've been to a cemetery in Normandy...8000 graves....speechless...."

some of which are multiple graves.

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!


"You could rephrase your last paragraph.

I've been to a cemetery in Normandy...8000 graves....speechless....

some of which are multiple graves."

Even worse....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I admire anyone that stands up and fights for what they believe in.

When my parents took us to France and Holland to see the graves of relatives, I was expecting another old graveyard.

What I saw was a scene that has stayed with me ever since.

I think more people should go and pay a visit, its the only way you can understand how many didn't come home and gave everything for those at home.

I shall give my 2 minutes and swallow hard thinking of those brave men and women."

Did the same thing with my two boys about 5 years ago - went to a small(ish) cemetary just south of Arras. The effect on my boys was marked. 'Living' history is always better than sitting in a classroom learning it from a book. Have to say, though, the far more sobering experience - even for me - was going round La Coupole at Wizerne from where the Germans had hoped to fire V2 rockets at the UK. Fortunately we overran it soon after D-Day...

As you walk into the dome, you are on a concrete road inside a tunnel. You get about 40 yds into it before the information boards tell you you have just walked over the 'tombs' of an estimated 400 slave workers who were forced to build the place. Brings it home....

Given the option, I doubt any of those buried under the concrete there would give a toss what colour the poppy was that anyone chooses to wear - be it red or white. The best thing you can do is make sure that you NEVER forget what happened in that and other wars (or, as history has proved time and again - it WILL repeat itself) and give as much as you can afford to make sure those who have to live the rest of their lives with their injuries, are cared for to the highest standards.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I didn't know there was such a thing as a white poppy?

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

This is off thread so sorry. We went for a day trip to Lille but stopped at La Coupole at Wizerne and it was worth the detour. The huge concrete building had had a huge chunk knocked out of it by a Lancaster bomb. I looked at this concrete and thought 'good! Bloody nazis'.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"This is off thread so sorry. We went for a day trip to Lille but stopped at La Coupole at Wizerne and it was worth the detour. The huge concrete building had had a huge chunk knocked out of it by a Lancaster bomb. I looked at this concrete and thought 'good! Bloody nazis'. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Reading above posts from people who lost relatives in both great wars made me think of my own ancestors. Both my grandfathers survived WW2 - one was a fireman in the Blitz of London and saw his fair share or burned corpses, and the other was a tank driver on the field at El Alamien in the Second Battle that finally pushed Rommel out of Africa in 1942. Our family had various unlces, cousins etc in both wars but by sheer fluke none of them were killed and only two were wounded, one seriously.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" Both my grandfathers survived WW2 - one was a fireman in the Blitz of London and saw his fair share or burned corpses, "

so was mine! you don't think....? .nah....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I dont see what difference it makes what colour the poppy is, surely its the sentiment behind why your wearing it that counts, your still remembering and paying respect regardless of the colour

Infact i dont even wear a poppy but that does not mean i dont appreciate what all those that died did for this country, it just means i dont feel the need to advertise it to the world by wearing a poppy, you can still remember them regardless "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" Both my grandfathers survived WW2 - one was a fireman in the Blitz of London and saw his fair share or burned corpses,

so was mine! you don't think....? .nah.... "

out of Holborn?

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By *ucsparkMan
over a year ago

dudley

My _iew on red poppies comes from one of my grandfather. He told me the story of the blood poppies of the battle fields. His _iew is all war is a waste of life, but to not stand and mark that someone gave up their life is unkind to those that fell and those that stand.

When I was younger he took me to the Somme and to the concentration camps. He want me to understand that it takes one person to stand for what is right to start making a difference. Life is too precious to be stamped out for land. Most died for freedom because politicians could not or would not sort things by talking.

And yes I wear a red poppy to show that I care about those that have fallen and also those that come home and need help.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"My _iew on red poppies comes from one of my grandfather. He told me the story of the blood poppies of the battle fields. His _iew is all war is a waste of life, but to not stand and mark that someone gave up their life is unkind to those that fell and those that stand.

When I was younger he took me to the Somme and to the concentration camps. He want me to understand that it takes one person to stand for what is right to start making a difference. Life is too precious to be stamped out for land. Most died for freedom because politicians could not or would not sort things by talking.

And yes I wear a red poppy to show that I care about those that have fallen and also those that come home and need help. "

Wow I wish I could of put it like this

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 10/11/12 19:28:59]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I was at the Battle of Britain memorial near Dover recently and started to well up

Something eerie thinking about what happened in the sky above and what it meant to us all - very moving

Proud to be British and proud both my grandads and their friends fought so bravely to keep us so

xxx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not sure if it's been mentioned but - everybody has the right to hope for something, without hope we have nothing, so it's unfair to rubbish another persons hope. Equally you understand that religion is the biggest single factor in war and you hope religion is abolished. Only when this planet dies (not too long, a century or sooner)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Not sure if it's been mentioned but - everybody has the right to hope for something, without hope we have nothing, so it's unfair to rubbish another persons hope. Equally you understand that religion is the biggest single factor in war and you hope religion is abolished. Only when this planet dies (not too long, a century or sooner)"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Didn't know you could get white ones.

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland


"Going back to basics. The red poppy was the first flowers to return to the battle fields.

So white and purple have just been made up.

I like many would love peace but it's not in human nature...

As to those who won't wear a red poppy that is your right, many men died so you can have that right. However those people who won't wear one because of the treatment of troops back in WW1, I feel have got it wrong.

Kitchener and Haig ran the war as they had been trained. The problem was they were trained using the same tactics as Wellintons army, however they were not facing the same weapons as Wellinton which led to high casualties.

I think we need to learn lessons from history however we should be carefull of judging them by todays standards. "

The weapons might have ch anged but after a cpl of days and thousands of men getting slaughtered daily woud not a good Generel have thought "There is something wrong with my strategy here" these Generals were incompetent beyond belief or realy did not care or a combination of both.

Lions led by donkeys, never was there w a truer statement about WW1.

Watch the Timewatch Programme on Yesterday channel at 2 oclock today The Last Day of World War One and anyone will see what these idiots realy thought of the soldiers.

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

I thought this thread was about poppies?

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland


"I thought this thread was about poppies?"

It is about poppies but like every thread ever posted on the forums there is some digression but what I have said above still has some relevance as the reason for the poppy was the wholesale slaughter in the fields of France due to the Generals who sent men over time and time again knowing they were going to be mowed down.

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By *emmefataleWoman
over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

I wear a red poppy, not a white or a blue, or orange one with spots....November 11th is for red poppies no other colour, any other day, week, month wear whatever for whatever cause, i personally wont muddy the waters....red all the way.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

Well said Femme....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

On one of the worst days in British military history is the First Day of the Battle of Albert, also known as The Somme, 1st July 1916, when some 57,470 men became casualties, of whom 19,240 were killed or died of wounds.

Our boys were ordered over the top and to WALK to the German lines, as the Generals felt assured that German resistance would be minimal due to the heavy artillery pounding that had been inflicted on them for the preceding 48 hours. They were mown down by heavy machine gun fire but they were also told that if they returned they'd be shot as cowards.

A less celebrated fact of The Somme is that the only brigade to reach their objective and cross the German lines was an Irish brigade who RAN across no man's land.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Me too red poppy's are for remembrance day and confusing the issue with other ones just makes me scratch my head as to why. There are after all 364 other days to choose from to remember tragedy's with other coloured poppy's or what ever.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

I'm told a Jock from the Royal Scottish Borderers, 1st Batallion the Regiment of Scotland - successors to my grandfather's regiment The King's Own Scottish Borderers, has been killed today in Afghanistan.

Sleep in peace now the battle's o'er.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm told a Jock from the Royal Scottish Borderers, 1st Batallion the Regiment of Scotland - successors to my grandfather's regiment The King's Own Scottish Borderers, has been killed today in Afghanistan.

Sleep in peace now the battle's o'er."

A sad day and I hope his family find some solace and peace in time.

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By *emmefataleWoman
over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville


"I'm told a Jock from the Royal Scottish Borderers, 1st Batallion the Regiment of Scotland - successors to my grandfather's regiment The King's Own Scottish Borderers, has been killed today in Afghanistan.

Sleep in peace now the battle's o'er."
RIP x

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"I'm told a Jock from the Royal Scottish Borderers, 1st Batallion the Regiment of Scotland - successors to my grandfather's regiment The King's Own Scottish Borderers, has been killed today in Afghanistan.

Sleep in peace now the battle's o'er."

He's been named as Captain Walter Barrie, a Glasgow man. He was playing in a football match on Sunday when he was shot, almost certainly by an Afghan soldier, in the Nad-e Ali district of Helmand province.

He leaves a wife and a 15 year old son.

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