FabSwingers.com forum: Should employees have the right to stand up to horrible managers?

By *unandgamegeek OP Man
over a year ago

Bolton

I know that people would dread doing this out of fear of being sacked and would rather report to HR over a horrid managers but, what if reporting to HR doesn't work or isn't enough?

I think employees should indeed have the right to stand up for themselves and their fellow colleagues if a manager is being a bully to everyone in the workplace.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Absolutely. Join a union and call the bullying out

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By *ebjonnsonMan
over a year ago

Maldon

"I know that people would dread doing this out of fear of being sacked and would rather report to HR over a horrid managers but, what if reporting to HR doesn't work or isn't enough?

I think employees should indeed have the right to stand up for themselves and their fellow colleagues if a manager is being a bully to everyone in the workplace."
You do have that right

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By *aui.Man
over a year ago

around here

Don't we already have this right? I mean surely not only is it a right but an actual responsibility to stand up to douche bags?

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By *a LunaWoman
over a year ago

South Wales

The Company should have a policy about this sort of thing. If they are no good then maybe contact Citizens Advice or if there is a Union contact them or indeed a governing body for whatever trade you are in.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

They should and do have the right. It is not always advisable or successful though.

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By *agerMorganMan
over a year ago

Canvey Island

Yes, I’ve done It and stood up to a manager as well.

HR, in a lot of cases, are there to protect the company, not you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is the horrible thing about working these days. People think they need to take everything that's thrown their way because someone is in a position of power. Absolutely not, if someone is behaving a certain way call it out. Don't be afraid to stand up for yourself or others out of fear. You don't need to shout, swear or go down to their level but you can say in a calm way that's not okay.

I've been that person who's done that for myself and stepped in when people didn't have the confidence to. You spend the majority of life at work, don't let it be the place you hate going to the most. Life's too short to stress about it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"..but, what if reporting to HR doesn't work or isn't enough?"

Go the legal route either through a union or via citizens advice.

Unfortunately, some businesses/managers bank on an employees fear of losing their job to allow them to get away with allsorts. Don't let them do it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In my experience HR people are worse than useless. If someone’s title is “HR Business Partner” they are not there to represent or fight for staff.

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By *oodoodMan
over a year ago

Suffolk / Essex borders

Evidence is key. If a manner is being bullying verbally it's a tough one. The key is safety in numbers. If they are bullying you they are likely bullying someone else. Putting in a joint complaint is more effective as it can't be a simple your word against theirs. Make notes of all the occasions as well. I had a friend who went through this and that's he and few others did. As much as I am all for unions they are pretty useless these days as they have no bite due to lack of membership or not recognised by companies.

There's always the constructive dismissal route. If you put in a compliant, with others, and nothing is done then you could use that as a last resort.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They should and do have the right. It is not always advisable or successful though."

Yep, it's easier said than done. I was in that position last year with an overbearing boss and colleagues feeding the fire, could not do anything legally because I hadn't been there long enough... I got another job and told my boss exactly what I thought when I handed in my notice. I was surprised at how it affected me, like I lost my confidence

Now I am in an amazing place, with an amazing supportive boss. Feeling like me again

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By *unandgamegeek OP Man
over a year ago

Bolton

"This is the horrible thing about working these days. People think they need to take everything that's thrown their way because someone is in a position of power. Absolutely not, if someone is behaving a certain way call it out. Don't be afraid to stand up for yourself or others out of fear. You don't need to shout, swear or go down to their level but you can say in a calm way that's not okay.

I agree. I don't think it's right that employees should just stand there and take it. They need to stand their ground and say "No, I will not stand here and let you bully and belittle me in front of everyone".

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Evidence is key. If a manner is being bullying verbally it's a tough one. The key is safety in numbers. If they are bullying you they are likely bullying someone else. Putting in a joint complaint is more effective as it can't be a simple your word against theirs. Make notes of all the occasions as well. I had a friend who went through this and that's he and few others did. As much as I am all for unions they are pretty useless these days as they have no bite due to lack of membership or not recognised by companies.

There's always the constructive dismissal route. If you put in a compliant, with others, and nothing is done then you could use that as a last resort. "

You have to have been at a company for two years or more to go down that route I believe

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Always go through HR, make note of dates, times and what has been said/done. Never react negatively as you can be sure they will go to HR.

Workplace bullying is not acceptable and is the tool of a bad manager.

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By *ou only live onceMan
over a year ago

London

"Don't we already have this right? I mean surely not only is it a right but an actual responsibility to stand up to douche bags?"

Exactly this! We more than have the right to stand up to bullies in the workplace.

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By *oodoodMan
over a year ago

Suffolk / Essex borders

You have to have been at a company for two years or more to go down that route I believe"

For constructive dismissal yes you do unfortunately

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It would be great if true.

8 people made complaints about sexism, racism, bullying, serious incompetence, health and safety issues by one manager.

The manager still has his job, the 8 people all left the business.

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By *etcplCouple
over a year ago

Gapping Fanny

Stand up how?

By confronting, fighting or bullying back?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sit on their face but don’t tell them I told you to do it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

HR works for the business and is there to protect the business from its employees.

If you've got a bullying manager, don't forget that someone higher than them has put them in that managerial position and is likely to support that management team.

My experience of talking to HR about issues with management has never ended well.

I'd sooner leave and find a new job than involve HR.

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By *coobyBoobyDooWoman
over a year ago

Markfield

ACAS and Safecall are good independent advisory routes to take too if I’m need of support from outside the workplace. ACAS can advise on the legal side and Safecall can lobby higher management.

If a worker is being bullied and for example we’re to harm themselves as a result, directors of the organisation would potentially be liable for being responsible under corporate manslaughter rules relating to death in the workplace. So it is taken more seriously now than ever before in many large organisations. Always escalate.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We have excellent processes in place for all employees... Other managers participate in investigations to aid HR

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"ACAS and Safecall are good independent advisory routes to take too if I’m need of support from outside the workplace. ACAS can advise on the legal side and Safecall can lobby higher management.

Yes but that's in extreme cases where the individuals life is at risk.

Where it's not at risk and just making the employee miserable then I've found escalating the problem has made it 10 times worse.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"In my experience HR people are worse than useless. If someone’s title is “HR Business Partner” they are not there to represent or fight for staff. "

Of course they're not. HR are employed by a company to serve the company. If a manager is behaving in a way that breaks the law or breeches the company policies, HR usually deal with it because its in the companies best interest to do so. Many employed in HR are considered to be so in an advisory capacity anyway. A company doesn't even have to listen to its own HR departments advice. I've seen many HR Directors suddenly sacked because of conflict between them and other executives. It's unions that are there to represent and fight for employees, not HR.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"HR works for the business and is there to protect the business from its employees.

If you've got a bullying manager, don't forget that someone higher than them has put them in that managerial position and is likely to support that management team.

My experience of talking to HR about issues with management has never ended well.

I'd sooner leave and find a new job than involve HR. "

This ^^^

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes same. I've known a HR director go on long term sick leave, then quit, because she was against how one of the other directors was treating employees.

All they cared about was revenue and being able to sell the business so they could live comfortably off the proceeds. If employees didn't perform or complained about how they were being treated then they were got rid of.

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By *eneralKenobiMan
over a year ago

North Angus

I’ve no issues standing up to my manager, I’ve been called a prick on several occasions but I only do it when I know I’m in the right on something

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By *emorefridaCouple
over a year ago

La la land

I've been to HR twice in my career so far over management bullying. Each time I've won, I've always prepared thoroughly beforehand and what actions I want to remedy it and it's been ok. It's stressful yes, first time was 20 years ago that a hard slog, last time about 7 years ago and the process is much much simpler these days.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"I know that people would dread doing this out of fear of being sacked and would rather report to HR over a horrid managers but, what if reporting to HR doesn't work or isn't enough?

I think employees should indeed have the right to stand up for themselves and their fellow colleagues if a manager is being a bully to everyone in the workplace."

Is going to HR not standing up to it then?

What do you mean by standing up for themselves?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have done, my manager was a douche. He was expecting more and more out of me, neglecting my primary Job (Nights checkouts) to help refill the store, I reported it to the powers that be and they said they would deal with it... They didn't he went caveman and essentially said 'Me night Manager, Him My Staff'

Eventually I snapped and I had a full blown argument in front of the staff and I even had a dozen people applaud me.

For months afterwards he was nice as pie to me, I never objected to helping out, just I would do it after my job which HE recruited me for

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes, I’ve done It and stood up to a manager as well.

HR, in a lot of cases, are there to protect the company, not you. "

HR protrect the company when push comes to shove at the end of the day. Its you against them as a whole.

All evidence/prppf is needed to support all claims.

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By *unandgamegeek OP Man
over a year ago

Bolton

"I know that people would dread doing this out of fear of being sacked and would rather report to HR over a horrid managers but, what if reporting to HR doesn't work or isn't enough?

I think employees should indeed have the right to stand up for themselves and their fellow colleagues if a manager is being a bully to everyone in the workplace.

Is going to HR not standing up to it then?

What do you mean by standing up for themselves?"

I meant that employees should not be made to stand there and take it.

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By *uper SaiyanMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

HR are not there to help you, they are there to make sure the company doesnt get in any trouble.

Tactifully address the problem with the person, AND with someone above them if possible. That way you can at least be seen to try and resolve the situation and have someone vouch that you have (otherwise its your word against theirs).

If that fails, call them out straight (no shout or swearing), that exposes them and can get others who feel the same to join your club. But dont shout, swear or make threats - you will lose the initiative by doing that.

Hope you sort it out.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I've been to HR twice in my career so far over management bullying. Each time I've won, I've always prepared thoroughly beforehand and what actions I want to remedy it and it's been ok. It's stressful yes, first time was 20 years ago that a hard slog, last time about 7 years ago and the process is much much simpler these days. "

It's nice to hear that you've been successful with two bullying cases.

What happened to the management? Dud your relationships improve?

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"HR are not there to help you, they are there to make sure the company doesnt get in any trouble.

Never was truer word spoken. That's why I always recommend joining a union

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes same. I've known a HR director go on long term sick leave, then quit, because she was against how one of the other directors was treating employees.

True and well stated.

All levels of management are trained to tap into people are drive sales and business. So many use the so called postions for their very own ego's and passive aggressive bullying behaviours.

There is a far deeper problem than many will admit to.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes, I’ve done It and stood up to a manager as well.

HR, in a lot of cases, are there to protect the company, not you. "

110% correct, many are not aware of this very fact and detail.

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By *RANDMRSJAECouple
over a year ago

chester

I’ve worked for the best part of 30 years & luckily always for a company who encourage candid feedback.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"HR are not there to help you, they are there to make sure the company doesnt get in any trouble.

Never was truer word spoken. That's why I always recommend joining a union"

Thats why many unions have been done away with. The corps have the power and backing.

Back in the day companys used tp openly say " we value our staff etc " you dont hear these or many words of praise of value.

Its mostly targets,figures,stats,KPI's .

My last company on 2 months made £60million pound profit.

We the team got £85 out from that 2 month sales period and some pizza's .

The capitalist stystem is very harsh!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I’ve worked for the best part of 30 years & luckily always for a company who encourage candid feedback. "

Feed back is very Biased.

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By *abs..Woman
over a year ago

They already do. They just need to follow the correct procedures.

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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago

Dubai & Nottingham

So many companies in U.K. have awful managers and don’t address it. Its well known that line managers are the single biggest determiner in whether someone enjoys work and is productive , it’s far above pay and conditions.

I’m very direct but would never bully anyone or be mean, I get best results supporting, mentoring and challenging ,but I often tell people bluntly they must change/develop or they will be out and if people lie to me or are lazy I fire them.

My advice talk to them. Tell them if it can’t be sorted you will go to HR. Once it goes to HR it’s formal and typically one of you have to move or go. Try to avoid it if you can and resolve it yourself

In general chose company’s where you like the management style, I couldn’t work for U.K. companies most of the managers I had in the past we’re useless, some were bullies when I was younger but I just got out those companies fast

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"Stand up how?

By confronting, fighting or bullying back?"

Use the American problem resolution method... Speak softly and carry an ar15?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Stand up how?

By confronting, fighting or bullying back?

Use the American problem resolution method... Speak softly and carry an ar15? "

Got folks in the USA, not cool bruh!

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By *RANDMRSJAECouple
over a year ago

chester

"I’ve worked for the best part of 30 years & luckily always for a company who encourage candid feedback.

Feed back is very Biased. "

I’ve only had positive experiences of this

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think most companies encourage people to sort it out before it becomes official and therefore a problem. This obviously depends on how you go about it, the individual themselves (are they likely to listen and take it on board) and your ability to back up what you want to say. Only you can tell what the best course of action will be, but good luck to anyone that needs it. I know it can be a shite situation to be in

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Worker’s rights? Seriously? Back in my day people actually had respect and brain cells.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If we come across a situation like this we just walk a leave. Soon they will get the message.

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By * and M lookingCouple
over a year ago

Worcester

Are they being a bully or just trying to get folk to do the job that they are being paid for?

Seeingitfrombothsides.com

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By *emorefridaCouple
over a year ago

La la land

It's nice to hear that you've been successful with two bullying cases.

What happened to the management? Dud your relationships improve? "

One manager quit his job and can no longer get a job in the UK. The second was put on a warning and I moved to a different manager and am much happier for it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When was working there was no point me trying to raise the issue as my manager would not believe he was doing anything wrong, though I know others have stood up to him before.

Its possibly one of the reasons I have not worked since as worried I would not be listened to or get the support I may have needed

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By *ikeC81Man
over a year ago

harrow

I got a bit of an arse kicking yesterday. Story as follows

Manager doesn't work Fridays

She sent client deliverable to client late on Thursday that wasn’t correct

Staff member who used to work on client was busy and should have been working on deliverable passed it to me

I couldn’t fix/ amend it as per the client request on Friday, I said manager can fix it Monday (Monday was deadline anyway)

Client has complained to very senior manger about it.

Senior manager in our company is trying to throw me under bus because I sent a holding email (as per manger instruction if such issues arose)

I basically said and backed myself, saying well I am new to client I didn’t know how to make the changes what was I supposed to do? Manager hasn’t been spoken to yet

Sometimes you have to back yourself

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Take notes , take recordings if needed, get witnesses , get as many signed statements as possible, then take it above his head. Threaten constructive dismissal by showing all the statements, no need to say who made the statements but assure them that should it go to tribunal you will reveal the identities of the statements and you will win . That will scare them enough to act on your grievance. This is a last resort option by the way. Make 1 informal complaint with his or her senior first then an official complaint if required . But record all of your conversations right from the start of your grievance. It work , I know . I got myself a pay off to leave which was my end goal as I never wanted to work there after the process anyways.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A nice pay off by the way.

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By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

Yes they have the right.

Some bosses will abuse that right.

For real help call the ACAS helpline

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By *ikeC81Man
over a year ago

harrow

Be careful acas will really only come in after 2 years

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By *uper SaiyanMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

Be wary of making things formal - if you lose you are not in a good position, if you win you will have your every move scrunitised till they get rid of you.

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By *ty31Man
over a year ago

NW London

"Stand up how?

By confronting, fighting or bullying back?

Use the American problem resolution method... Speak softly and carry an ar15? "

I prefer the English way- just tell the cunt to step outside and settle it like men

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

HR is just as bad. The HR advisor singled me out and treated me like shit. It was so bad I ended up on sick leave for three months. When I eventually felt strong enough to go back to work I put in an official complaint about her to the manager and told her to keep her away from me. Sometimes the ones who are meant to be there to help and support you are the ones who treat you badly x

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By *nliveneTV/TS
over a year ago

Selby

"Take notes , take recordings if needed, get witnesses , get as many signed statements as possible, then take it above his head. Threaten constructive dismissal by showing all the statements, no need to say who made the statements but assure them that should it go to tribunal you will reveal the identities of the statements and you will win . That will scare them enough to act on your grievance. This is a last resort option by the way. Make 1 informal complaint with his or her senior first then an official complaint if required . But record all of your conversations right from the start of your grievance. It work , I know . I got myself a pay off to leave which was my end goal as I never wanted to work there after the process anyways. "

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By *os19Man
over a year ago

Edmonton

For the last year and a half me and my manager have not been getting on over whether I need 2 hours to do a certain job role which she is the manager for.I volunteered to step down and train up the person of her choice as well as a couple of back up as currently there is only one back person who only does the basics not the full back up.It’s a fiddling job that no one really wants to do including me but I have done it for 6 years and before that 4 years as a back up so I knew she would not find anyone to volunteer to replace me.She backed down but kept asking me to do other jobs during those 2 hours allocated time when I refused she backed down as in the past I have walked out and she knows I can be very hard headed and stubborn.Over the Easter period I fell ill and was off work for 4 days during which time I came in to hand over the keys to the office manager who in turn arranged a handover with my manager and the back up.When I returned to work on 25th April I was not happy with what had gone on and I refused to take back the keys.The office manager has since got involved and as of 13th June I will be handing over to the person of the office manager choice who does not want to do it.Since the 25th April my manager has been in the office for 7 days as she has been on leave and so far I have had one good morning out of her.I know it childish and petty but I intend to only speak to her in replying back good morning or good night.

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By *uriousscouserWoman
over a year ago

Wirral

Early in my career I stood up for myself and for others. I worked twice for bullying bosses, kept very detailed diaries of events, went to HR, got the union involved.

On one occasion it made things much worse, on the other occasion the manager was moved to a different team, so it didn't solve the issue for the business but it solved it for me and my colleagues.

I probably wouldn't take formal action these days. I can usually deal with attempts to bully me before they become too overt but if I find myself in a really toxic environment I'm lucky enough to be able to walk away with no fears about finding another job at the same level somewhere that suits me more.

If someone won't treat me with even a minimal level of respect then why should I allow them to benefit from my skill and expertise? I'll head somewhere that I'm valued.

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