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"What’s non binary?  "A person who doesn’t identify as a man nor a woman and sits outside of the classic gender binary. | |||
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"As you're not meeting, have you considered turning off all messages or limiting them to 98-99? You can still message who you want. I've done this periodically to avoid hassle and it's very peaceful! " Yeah, my filters are set to "no". Lol | |||
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"You may be better putting a pic on so it may stop it" How would that stop people being ride about them being non-binary? | |||
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"How many binaries are there out of interest... ?" Good question. I assume 2 as most identify as one gender or the other but a none binary person is not bound to either. | |||
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"How many binaries are there out of interest... ?" How many binaries for what? | |||
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"How many binaries are there out of interest... ? Good question. I assume 2 as most identify as one gender or the other but a none binary person is not bound to either. " Two sexes thus sex is binary. Many genders. | |||
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"You may be better putting a pic on so it may stop it How would that stop people being ride about them being non-binary?" Thought a lot of plp would be thinking are they male or female but if a pic they may be bored and not bother if this offends it sorry I may not have worded it correctly I do appolagise some of the haters are fickle so they may not see the challenge it makes to upset them | |||
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"So basically, you already know there isn’t a way You just wanted an excuse to say you have transphobe in your dms Why not just be direct instead of beating around the bush The answer is to report the messages. That’s all you can do outside of closing off all messages " I’m new here; so I don’t know whether there is or isn’t a way. Second of all, my status already says I have transphobes in my dms; I just need to know how to stop them before they come into my dms | |||
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"So basically, you already know there isn’t a way You just wanted an excuse to say you have transphobe in your dms Why not just be direct instead of beating around the bush The answer is to report the messages. That’s all you can do outside of closing off all messages I’m new here; so I don’t know whether there is or isn’t a way. Second of all, my status already says I have transphobes in my dms; I just need to know how to stop them before they come into my dms" Well if you ever figure out how to ban transphobes through the internet before they’ve acted, you might wanna hold onto that technology. Because as you said. It’s impossible to tell if someone is or isn’t, until they show you. So technically, it’s impossible to stop just them. You’d need to stop everyone Report helps. Admins are pretty good if it’s real abuse | |||
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"So basically, you already know there isn’t a way You just wanted an excuse to say you have transphobe in your dms Why not just be direct instead of beating around the bush The answer is to report the messages. That’s all you can do outside of closing off all messages I’m new here; so I don’t know whether there is or isn’t a way. Second of all, my status already says I have transphobes in my dms; I just need to know how to stop them before they come into my dms" There’s nothing on your profile to say your trans though? So I don’t get why you’re getting lots of transphobic messages. I admit to not knowing much about non - binary as I’ve only heard of Sam Smith and didn’t think he was trans. I’ve never linked the two together to be honest. But I do read these threads to try and educate myself and ask questions. | |||
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"You may be better putting a pic on so it may stop it How would that stop people being ride about them being non-binary? Thought a lot of plp would be thinking are they male or female but if a pic they may be bored and not bother if this offends it sorry I may not have worded it correctly I do appolagise some of the haters are fickle so they may not see the challenge it makes to upset them" I don’t think that’s going to stop people coming into my dms telling me that I need to pick ‘xx or xy’ and that it’s a ‘figment of my imagination’ | |||
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"So basically, you already know there isn’t a way You just wanted an excuse to say you have transphobe in your dms Why not just be direct instead of beating around the bush The answer is to report the messages. That’s all you can do outside of closing off all messages I’m new here; so I don’t know whether there is or isn’t a way. Second of all, my status already says I have transphobes in my dms; I just need to know how to stop them before they come into my dms There’s nothing on your profile to say your trans though? So I don’t get why you’re getting lots of transphobic messages. I admit to not knowing much about non - binary as I’ve only heard of Sam Smith and didn’t think he was trans. I’ve never linked the two together to be honest. But I do read these threads to try and educate myself and ask questions. " Non-binary is under the trans umbrella; people also tell me that I’m lying and that it’s fake and that I’m either xx or xy. | |||
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"So basically, you already know there isn’t a way You just wanted an excuse to say you have transphobe in your dms Why not just be direct instead of beating around the bush The answer is to report the messages. That’s all you can do outside of closing off all messages I’m new here; so I don’t know whether there is or isn’t a way. Second of all, my status already says I have transphobes in my dms; I just need to know how to stop them before they come into my dms Well if you ever figure out how to ban transphobes through the internet before they’ve acted, you might wanna hold onto that technology. Because as you said. It’s impossible to tell if someone is or isn’t, until they show you. So technically, it’s impossible to stop just them. You’d need to stop everyone Report helps. Admins are pretty good if it’s real abuse " You’d be surprised with technology; if I remember correctly there’s an add-on on chrome that you can add to your twitter that marks a persons name up in red if they are transphobic. warns other people not to interact with them. | |||
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"So basically, you already know there isn’t a way You just wanted an excuse to say you have transphobe in your dms Why not just be direct instead of beating around the bush The answer is to report the messages. That’s all you can do outside of closing off all messages I’m new here; so I don’t know whether there is or isn’t a way. Second of all, my status already says I have transphobes in my dms; I just need to know how to stop them before they come into my dms There’s nothing on your profile to say your trans though? So I don’t get why you’re getting lots of transphobic messages. I admit to not knowing much about non - binary as I’ve only heard of Sam Smith and didn’t think he was trans. I’ve never linked the two together to be honest. But I do read these threads to try and educate myself and ask questions. " I recently had training at work delivered by a trans non binary person and they taught clarified about how one can identify as both because I used to find them conflicting in ways. But I think I’ve seen OP talk about their experience in threads before and guess that’s where the transphobes come from. | |||
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"So basically, you already know there isn’t a way You just wanted an excuse to say you have transphobe in your dms Why not just be direct instead of beating around the bush The answer is to report the messages. That’s all you can do outside of closing off all messages I’m new here; so I don’t know whether there is or isn’t a way. Second of all, my status already says I have transphobes in my dms; I just need to know how to stop them before they come into my dms There’s nothing on your profile to say your trans though? So I don’t get why you’re getting lots of transphobic messages. I admit to not knowing much about non - binary as I’ve only heard of Sam Smith and didn’t think he was trans. I’ve never linked the two together to be honest. But I do read these threads to try and educate myself and ask questions. Non-binary is under the trans umbrella; people also tell me that I’m lying and that it’s fake and that I’m either xx or xy." Ah ok. I didn’t know that. | |||
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"So basically, you already know there isn’t a way You just wanted an excuse to say you have transphobe in your dms Why not just be direct instead of beating around the bush The answer is to report the messages. That’s all you can do outside of closing off all messages I’m new here; so I don’t know whether there is or isn’t a way. Second of all, my status already says I have transphobes in my dms; I just need to know how to stop them before they come into my dms Well if you ever figure out how to ban transphobes through the internet before they’ve acted, you might wanna hold onto that technology. Because as you said. It’s impossible to tell if someone is or isn’t, until they show you. So technically, it’s impossible to stop just them. You’d need to stop everyone Report helps. Admins are pretty good if it’s real abuse You’d be surprised with technology; if I remember correctly there’s an add-on on chrome that you can add to your twitter that marks a persons name up in red if they are transphobic. warns other people not to interact with them." That’s because they have shown themselves. Pretty impossible to look at someone and know if they are until they’ve acted And fabs has so many tech bugs and features missing. It’s a real bare bones site without any kind of pattern recognition stuff. There’s been a fake account in my area for a few weeks now and I’ve reported it several times and nothings happened The best thing to do is close your messages down and then message people you fancy. Stops the majority saying as they please then | |||
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"So basically, you already know there isn’t a way You just wanted an excuse to say you have transphobe in your dms Why not just be direct instead of beating around the bush The answer is to report the messages. That’s all you can do outside of closing off all messages I’m new here; so I don’t know whether there is or isn’t a way. Second of all, my status already says I have transphobes in my dms; I just need to know how to stop them before they come into my dms There’s nothing on your profile to say your trans though? So I don’t get why you’re getting lots of transphobic messages. I admit to not knowing much about non - binary as I’ve only heard of Sam Smith and didn’t think he was trans. I’ve never linked the two together to be honest. But I do read these threads to try and educate myself and ask questions. " Trans and non binary are different things but you will get antagonistic people confusing the two and thinking they are in the right | |||
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"What's is dms? Direct messages"  | |||
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" Trans and non binary are different things but you will get antagonistic people confusing the two and thinking they are in the right" Non-binary falls under the umbrella term Trans. T | |||
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" Trans and non binary are different things but you will get antagonistic people confusing the two and thinking they are in the right Non-binary falls under the umbrella term Trans. T" But what are non-binary people transitioning to? I know Stonewall have a very wide umbrella definition I can't say it makes a lot of sense to me. | |||
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" Trans and non binary are different things but you will get antagonistic people confusing the two and thinking they are in the right Non-binary falls under the umbrella term Trans. T But what are non-binary people transitioning to? I know Stonewall have a very wide umbrella definition I can't say it makes a lot of sense to me. " Transgender means that someone's birth sex des not match their gender identity, not that they are transitioning. | |||
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" Trans and non binary are different things but you will get antagonistic people confusing the two and thinking they are in the right Non-binary falls under the umbrella term Trans. T But what are non-binary people transitioning to? I know Stonewall have a very wide umbrella definition I can't say it makes a lot of sense to me. " I'm no expert but non binary and gender fluid aren't transitioning in the transitional sense. They may look or present as one gender, but feel neither male, female, somewhere inbetween or anywhere along the line between fully male or fully female. They may not want to physically change their bodies but may not always feel their physical form represents them. This is quite different from their sexuality and who they find attractive or want to have sex with. I think and am happy to be corrected. | |||
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" Trans and non binary are different things but you will get antagonistic people confusing the two and thinking they are in the right Non-binary falls under the umbrella term Trans. T But what are non-binary people transitioning to? I know Stonewall have a very wide umbrella definition I can't say it makes a lot of sense to me. Transgender means that someone's birth sex des not match their gender identity, not that they are transitioning." Ah that's the best explanation I've read for non-binary being trans. There's a mismatch between birth sex and gender identity. Or is mismatch the wrong word? | |||
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"Sorry to go off topic here, I don't want to derail the thread, but I felt it worth pointing out that I don't think I've ever seen a discussion surrounding trans people/gender identity in an open forum go on for this long without hatred and bigotry rearing their heads. People can be really fucking nasty on this site, so it's nice to see so much support, understanding, and genuine efforts to understand rather than aggression and abuse. Keep sharing the love, people, it's the only thing that can kill hate. "(Also, I realise the rainbow isn't the ideal choice, but there isn't a trans flag emoji thingy!) | |||
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" Trans and non binary are different things but you will get antagonistic people confusing the two and thinking they are in the right Non-binary falls under the umbrella term Trans. T But what are non-binary people transitioning to? I know Stonewall have a very wide umbrella definition I can't say it makes a lot of sense to me. Transgender means that someone's birth sex des not match their gender identity, not that they are transitioning. Ah that's the best explanation I've read for non-binary being trans. There's a mismatch between birth sex and gender identity. Or is mismatch the wrong word?" It's as good a word as any! Transitioning is in many ways an unhelpful term because it suggests changing from something into something else, and that's misleading for trans people. Transgender people have a very instinctive sense of self and identity that doesn't match their biological sex. So, while I am on hormone treatment i'm not doing that to "become" a woman, as for me i have always identified as female so there is nothing to change. The reason most trans people who pursue medical treatment do so is to mitigate dysphoria, and so that their physical characteristics are more aligned to their internal sense of self. It's one of the reasons the "biological sex is real" line isn't the gotcha gender critical people think it is, because trans people are only too painfully aware of their birth biology, but what they are also completely aware of is that gender is an entirely social construct and for whatever reason, their gender is not the same as their biological sex. In blunt terms, i'm "transitioning" in the hope that seeing myself in a mirror feels less like i am looking at a stranger. One of the reasons that non-binary people have particular challenges is it is much harder for them to feel socially affirmed. Depending on how their gender identity fluctuates day to day, it is much harder for them to feel affirmed in their identity because society is utterly cis normative. For example how do they feel affirmed by pronouns and gender markers on their bank card, utility bills, driving license etc etc. It's why their was a recent debate in parliament about having non-binary as a permissible gender on passports, something that has already been adopted in other countries. | |||
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" Trans and non binary are different things but you will get antagonistic people confusing the two and thinking they are in the right Non-binary falls under the umbrella term Trans. T But what are non-binary people transitioning to? I know Stonewall have a very wide umbrella definition I can't say it makes a lot of sense to me. Transgender means that someone's birth sex des not match their gender identity, not that they are transitioning. Ah that's the best explanation I've read for non-binary being trans. There's a mismatch between birth sex and gender identity. Or is mismatch the wrong word? It's as good a word as any! Transitioning is in many ways an unhelpful term because it suggests changing from something into something else, and that's misleading for trans people. Transgender people have a very instinctive sense of self and identity that doesn't match their biological sex. So, while I am on hormone treatment i'm not doing that to "become" a woman, as for me i have always identified as female so there is nothing to change. The reason most trans people who pursue medical treatment do so is to mitigate dysphoria, and so that their physical characteristics are more aligned to their internal sense of self. It's one of the reasons the "biological sex is real" line isn't the gotcha gender critical people think it is, because trans people are only too painfully aware of their birth biology, but what they are also completely aware of is that gender is an entirely social construct and for whatever reason, their gender is not the same as their biological sex. In blunt terms, i'm "transitioning" in the hope that seeing myself in a mirror feels less like i am looking at a stranger. One of the reasons that non-binary people have particular challenges is it is much harder for them to feel socially affirmed. Depending on how their gender identity fluctuates day to day, it is much harder for them to feel affirmed in their identity because society is utterly cis normative. For example how do they feel affirmed by pronouns and gender markers on their bank card, utility bills, driving license etc etc. It's why their was a recent debate in parliament about having non-binary as a permissible gender on passports, something that has already been adopted in other countries. " It is indicative of the phallocentric heteronormative society we live in. When I got married, my identifier changed from Mr. to Mr. Women have to contend with Mrs Miss Ms Mx etc Which all exclude they/them. It will take time. Our language is built upon a binary system and won't change any time soon. | |||
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" Trans and non binary are different things but you will get antagonistic people confusing the two and thinking they are in the right Non-binary falls under the umbrella term Trans. T But what are non-binary people transitioning to? I know Stonewall have a very wide umbrella definition I can't say it makes a lot of sense to me. Transgender means that someone's birth sex des not match their gender identity, not that they are transitioning. Ah that's the best explanation I've read for non-binary being trans. There's a mismatch between birth sex and gender identity. Or is mismatch the wrong word? It's as good a word as any! Transitioning is in many ways an unhelpful term because it suggests changing from something into something else, and that's misleading for trans people. Transgender people have a very instinctive sense of self and identity that doesn't match their biological sex. So, while I am on hormone treatment i'm not doing that to "become" a woman, as for me i have always identified as female so there is nothing to change. The reason most trans people who pursue medical treatment do so is to mitigate dysphoria, and so that their physical characteristics are more aligned to their internal sense of self. It's one of the reasons the "biological sex is real" line isn't the gotcha gender critical people think it is, because trans people are only too painfully aware of their birth biology, but what they are also completely aware of is that gender is an entirely social construct and for whatever reason, their gender is not the same as their biological sex. In blunt terms, i'm "transitioning" in the hope that seeing myself in a mirror feels less like i am looking at a stranger. One of the reasons that non-binary people have particular challenges is it is much harder for them to feel socially affirmed. Depending on how their gender identity fluctuates day to day, it is much harder for them to feel affirmed in their identity because society is utterly cis normative. For example how do they feel affirmed by pronouns and gender markers on their bank card, utility bills, driving license etc etc. It's why their was a recent debate in parliament about having non-binary as a permissible gender on passports, something that has already been adopted in other countries. " That's a very clear explanation thank you. I do find non-binary more difficult to understand - I don't feel that I have a gender identity myself but I accept that many others do. One of my children has several non-binary friends and I'm trying to keep abreast of these issues. It does make a great deal more sense to me now that NB is under the trans umbrella. | |||
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"Apologies if I've missed it. OP, Are you receiving hate messages based on being non-binary or are some people merely trying to establish if you were born male or female? The reason I ask this is because I've read your profile and I've no idea whether you have a female or male body and I think thats the potential issue for some people that message you hoping it would lead to a meet. For some people this matters if things were to progress past talking. For example, pretend I'm a gay female (Not bisexual) if I was looking for another female to play with and were winked by you etc. My first question would be do you have a female body or a male body, your profile would suggest perhaps female but it's also vague enough for you not to be. If you were to have a males body I'd unlikely find you my type, so naturally questions from me about your sex would arise. Personally I don't care how someone sees themselves on fab. For me its about whether I'm attracted to them or not and their personality and attitude. But OP I do think you could have wrote your profile better. Its so ambiguous and I think thats the reason for the volume of messages. Regardless either way, you do not deserve abuse. " You seem to be suggesting the reason someone is getting abuse for being non binary is that they haven't stated their gender in binary terms..... | |||
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"So basically, you already know there isn’t a way You just wanted an excuse to say you have transphobe in your dms Why not just be direct instead of beating around the bush The answer is to report the messages. That’s all you can do outside of closing off all messages " Hit the nail on the head! | |||
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"Apologies if I've missed it. OP, Are you receiving hate messages based on being non-binary or are some people merely trying to establish if you were born male or female? The reason I ask this is because I've read your profile and I've no idea whether you have a female or male body and I think thats the potential issue for some people that message you hoping it would lead to a meet. For some people this matters if things were to progress past talking. For example, pretend I'm a gay female (Not bisexual) if I was looking for another female to play with and were winked by you etc. My first question would be do you have a female body or a male body, your profile would suggest perhaps female but it's also vague enough for you not to be. If you were to have a males body I'd unlikely find you my type, so naturally questions from me about your sex would arise. Personally I don't care how someone sees themselves on fab. For me its about whether I'm attracted to them or not and their personality and attitude. But OP I do think you could have wrote your profile better. Its so ambiguous and I think thats the reason for the volume of messages. Regardless either way, you do not deserve abuse. You seem to be suggesting the reason someone is getting abuse for being non binary is that they haven't stated their gender in binary terms....." Thats not the point I was making. I don't know what the abuse received was as I'm not privy to the OPs messages. It may have nothing to do with it or may be everything to do with it. I don't know do I. But I have made an observation, one that I can imagine results in messages to the OP from potentially interested people. Either way I am not saying that the OP is deserving of any kind of abuse. As no one deserves to be abused. I was trying to be constructive with my message  | |||
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"Tom occasionally gets mailbox abuse. Sometimes he has deserved it and sometimes he has not. When Tom has deserved it then it's because he been a twat. Not because he is binary or non binary but because. Being a twat is not mutually exclusive to one or the other. You can be binary and a twat and non binary and a twat. " Deep | |||
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"Tom occasionally gets mailbox abuse. Sometimes he has deserved it and sometimes he has not. When Tom has deserved it then it's because he been a twat. Not because he is binary or non binary but because. Being a twat is not mutually exclusive to one or the other. You can be binary and a twat and non binary and a twat. Deep" This is no reflection or judgement on the OP. I have never read their posts before or seen the profile. I think what Tom is saying that in life it's sometimes apparent that some blame their identity, be it gay, bi, lesbian, Christian, Muslim, skin colour and many other traits for being the cause of their abuse... Tom is saying that it could just be because although you are straight, bi, trans, black, white etc the main reason for the abuse may also be because you are an obnoxious character. . Just Tom's view | |||
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Otherwise, Im afraid the only thing to do is grow a thick skin and use that block/report button.
Sending warm thoughts and hugs | |||
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"Being a twat is not mutually exclusive to one or the other. You can be binary and a twat and non binary and a twat." A friend of mine who is disabled and works to advocate for disabled people once said that the biggest mistake able bodied people make when working with people with impairments is to assume they’re are “brave and angelic”. In his words “I’m sometimes glad I can’t hear - I’ve met a lot of cowardly wankers who are disabled” If we’re serious about equality, it’s important to recognise we won’t always like each other. Tolerance and respect is the key. | |||
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"Tom occasionally gets mailbox abuse. Sometimes he has deserved it and sometimes he has not. When Tom has deserved it then it's because he been a twat. Not because he is binary or non binary but because. Being a twat is not mutually exclusive to one or the other. You can be binary and a twat and non binary and a twat. Deep This is no reflection or judgement on the OP. I have never read their posts before or seen the profile. I think what Tom is saying that in life it's sometimes apparent that some blame their identity, be it gay, bi, lesbian, Christian, Muslim, skin colour and many other traits for being the cause of their abuse... Tom is saying that it could just be because although you are straight, bi, trans, black, white etc the main reason for the abuse may also be because you are an obnoxious character. . Just Tom's view" The only abuse I’ve ever got has been based off me being trans. I’ve had people in my dms demanding their see my genitals, demanding to tell them what’s on my birth certificate, demanding that I choose either XX or XY, stating that it’s ‘all just a figment of my imagination’ and so much more. | |||
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"Apologies if I've missed it. OP, Are you receiving hate messages based on being non-binary or are some people merely trying to establish if you were born male or female? The reason I ask this is because I've read your profile and I've no idea whether you have a female or male body and I think thats the potential issue for some people that message you hoping it would lead to a meet. For some people this matters if things were to progress past talking. For example, pretend I'm a gay female (Not bisexual) if I was looking for another female to play with and were winked by you etc. My first question would be do you have a female body or a male body, your profile would suggest perhaps female but it's also vague enough for you not to be. If you were to have a males body I'd unlikely find you my type, so naturally questions from me about your sex would arise. Personally I don't care how someone sees themselves on fab. For me its about whether I'm attracted to them or not and their personality and attitude. But OP I do think you could have wrote your profile better. Its so ambiguous and I think thats the reason for the volume of messages. Regardless either way, you do not deserve abuse. " I’m non-binary; im not a woman nor a man, hence why I haven’t got it anywhere on my profile. My birth gender is nobody’s business unless we actually properly get to know each other. | |||
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"Tom occasionally gets mailbox abuse. Sometimes he has deserved it and sometimes he has not. When Tom has deserved it then it's because he been a twat. Not because he is binary or non binary but because. Being a twat is not mutually exclusive to one or the other. You can be binary and a twat and non binary and a twat. Deep This is no reflection or judgement on the OP. I have never read their posts before or seen the profile. I think what Tom is saying that in life it's sometimes apparent that some blame their identity, be it gay, bi, lesbian, Christian, Muslim, skin colour and many other traits for being the cause of their abuse... Tom is saying that it could just be because although you are straight, bi, trans, black, white etc the main reason for the abuse may also be because you are an obnoxious character. . Just Tom's view The only abuse I’ve ever got has been based off me being trans. I’ve had people in my dms demanding their see my genitals, demanding to tell them what’s on my birth certificate, demanding that I choose either XX or XY, stating that it’s ‘all just a figment of my imagination’ and so much more." The only abuse fat people get is about them being fat I would suspect and so on and so forth with most things that people perceive as “not perfect” or not their idea of the norm. There’s really nothing you can do about it except have a thick skin and delete and block. There’s arseholes everywhere and there always will be. Just do you and fuck em. (Or not!). | |||
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"Tom occasionally gets mailbox abuse. Sometimes he has deserved it and sometimes he has not. When Tom has deserved it then it's because he been a twat. Not because he is binary or non binary but because. Being a twat is not mutually exclusive to one or the other. You can be binary and a twat and non binary and a twat. Deep This is no reflection or judgement on the OP. I have never read their posts before or seen the profile. I think what Tom is saying that in life it's sometimes apparent that some blame their identity, be it gay, bi, lesbian, Christian, Muslim, skin colour and many other traits for being the cause of their abuse... Tom is saying that it could just be because although you are straight, bi, trans, black, white etc the main reason for the abuse may also be because you are an obnoxious character. . Just Tom's view" If Tom took the time to read the OP's replies instead of just dismissing their experience, Tom would have seen that the abuse the OP has received is all very blatantly targeting their gender identity. But I suspect Tom is more interested in whitewashing the bigotry experienced by trans people than actually offering any constructive insight. | |||
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"Tom occasionally gets mailbox abuse. Sometimes he has deserved it and sometimes he has not. When Tom has deserved it then it's because he been a twat. Not because he is binary or non binary but because. Being a twat is not mutually exclusive to one or the other. You can be binary and a twat and non binary and a twat. Deep This is no reflection or judgement on the OP. I have never read their posts before or seen the profile. I think what Tom is saying that in life it's sometimes apparent that some blame their identity, be it gay, bi, lesbian, Christian, Muslim, skin colour and many other traits for being the cause of their abuse... Tom is saying that it could just be because although you are straight, bi, trans, black, white etc the main reason for the abuse may also be because you are an obnoxious character. . Just Tom's view If Tom took the time to read the OP's replies instead of just dismissing their experience, Tom would have seen that the abuse the OP has received is all very blatantly targeting their gender identity. But I suspect Tom is more interested in whitewashing the bigotry experienced by trans people than actually offering any constructive insight." Just out of interest . Could that be classed as an abusive post.. ? | |||
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"There is a clown in the room who cannot see any irony in his post..." You've not covered yourself in glory on this thread...let it die, please! | |||
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"There is a clown in the room who cannot see any irony in his post... You've not covered yourself in glory on this thread...let it die, please! " Tom does not seek glory.. He is humble, has a point of view and will air it... | |||
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"There is a clown in the room who cannot see any irony in his post... You've not covered yourself in glory on this thread...let it die, please! Tom does not seek glory.. He is humble, has a point of view and will air it..." You've aired it | |||
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"There is a clown in the room who cannot see any irony in his post... You've not covered yourself in glory on this thread...let it die, please! Tom does not seek glory.. He is humble, has a point of view and will air it... You've aired it" And what do you object to? The truth ?. | |||
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"There is a clown in the room who cannot see any irony in his post... You've not covered yourself in glory on this thread...let it die, please! Tom does not seek glory.. He is humble, has a point of view and will air it... You've aired it And what do you object to? The truth ?." Why do you speak in third person? | |||
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"There is a clown in the room who cannot see any irony in his post... You've not covered yourself in glory on this thread...let it die, please! Tom does not seek glory.. He is humble, has a point of view and will air it... You've aired it And what do you object to? The truth ?. Why do you speak in third person? " There are three of us | |||
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"Hello; Probably a stupid question, but is there anyway to filter out transphobes in my dms? Obviously, I don’t know who’s going to be a transphobe and who isn’t; I’m just tired of people coming into my dms expecting a debate simply because I’m non-binary. I’m also sick and tired of them coming into my dms to claim that I can’t possibly be non-binary Basically…is there any way to filter them out? Other than just blocking them; I just don’t want the messages in the first place " I'm sorry you've experienced this OP. I wish there was a magic answer, but this and another post today have actually (despite your hassles) prompted me to be more open about my own dysmorphia and gender. Another enby here... | |||
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"There is a clown in the room who cannot see any irony in his post... You've not covered yourself in glory on this thread...let it die, please! Tom does not seek glory.. He is humble, has a point of view and will air it... You've aired it And what do you object to? The truth ?." What's the truth, Tom? Annie has started a thread saying they're receiving abusive Dms. What do you think the truth is? | |||
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"There is a clown in the room who cannot see any irony in his post... You've not covered yourself in glory on this thread...let it die, please! Tom does not seek glory.. He is humble, has a point of view and will air it... You've aired it And what do you object to? The truth ?. Why do you speak in third person? There are three of us " | |||
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" Trans and non binary are different things but you will get antagonistic people confusing the two and thinking they are in the right Non-binary falls under the umbrella term Trans. T But what are non-binary people transitioning to? I know Stonewall have a very wide umbrella definition I can't say it makes a lot of sense to me. Transgender means that someone's birth sex des not match their gender identity, not that they are transitioning. Ah that's the best explanation I've read for non-binary being trans. There's a mismatch between birth sex and gender identity. Or is mismatch the wrong word? It's as good a word as any! Transitioning is in many ways an unhelpful term because it suggests changing from something into something else, and that's misleading for trans people. Transgender people have a very instinctive sense of self and identity that doesn't match their biological sex. So, while I am on hormone treatment i'm not doing that to "become" a woman, as for me i have always identified as female so there is nothing to change. The reason most trans people who pursue medical treatment do so is to mitigate dysphoria, and so that their physical characteristics are more aligned to their internal sense of self. It's one of the reasons the "biological sex is real" line isn't the gotcha gender critical people think it is, because trans people are only too painfully aware of their birth biology, but what they are also completely aware of is that gender is an entirely social construct and for whatever reason, their gender is not the same as their biological sex. In blunt terms, i'm "transitioning" in the hope that seeing myself in a mirror feels less like i am looking at a stranger. One of the reasons that non-binary people have particular challenges is it is much harder for them to feel socially affirmed. Depending on how their gender identity fluctuates day to day, it is much harder for them to feel affirmed in their identity because society is utterly cis normative. For example how do they feel affirmed by pronouns and gender markers on their bank card, utility bills, driving license etc etc. It's why their was a recent debate in parliament about having non-binary as a permissible gender on passports, something that has already been adopted in other countries. That's a very clear explanation thank you. I do find non-binary more difficult to understand - I don't feel that I have a gender identity myself but I accept that many others do. One of my children has several non-binary friends and I'm trying to keep abreast of these issues. It does make a great deal more sense to me now that NB is under the trans umbrella. " It is very common for cisgender people to not feel that they have a gender identity, because it is something that never really occurs to them. I'm guessing that if you were asked your gender, you would say "I'm a woman of course". Which is a gender identity, that you do in fact acutely feel. However it is a gender identity that matches your body, and that corresponds to the way you have been treated by society from birth, so like most people you never really have to consider it. You don't have to consciously "identify" as female because it is so deeply embedded within you that it is just a core part of your full personal identity. It is only when that core part of your identity happens - for whatever reason - to not match what society keeps telling you your gender should be on the basis of what they think your body looks like, that it becomes something that you are very conscious of. | |||
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" Trans and non binary are different things but you will get antagonistic people confusing the two and thinking they are in the right Non-binary falls under the umbrella term Trans. T But what are non-binary people transitioning to? I know Stonewall have a very wide umbrella definition I can't say it makes a lot of sense to me. Transgender means that someone's birth sex des not match their gender identity, not that they are transitioning. Ah that's the best explanation I've read for non-binary being trans. There's a mismatch between birth sex and gender identity. Or is mismatch the wrong word? It's as good a word as any! Transitioning is in many ways an unhelpful term because it suggests changing from something into something else, and that's misleading for trans people. Transgender people have a very instinctive sense of self and identity that doesn't match their biological sex. So, while I am on hormone treatment i'm not doing that to "become" a woman, as for me i have always identified as female so there is nothing to change. The reason most trans people who pursue medical treatment do so is to mitigate dysphoria, and so that their physical characteristics are more aligned to their internal sense of self. It's one of the reasons the "biological sex is real" line isn't the gotcha gender critical people think it is, because trans people are only too painfully aware of their birth biology, but what they are also completely aware of is that gender is an entirely social construct and for whatever reason, their gender is not the same as their biological sex. In blunt terms, i'm "transitioning" in the hope that seeing myself in a mirror feels less like i am looking at a stranger. One of the reasons that non-binary people have particular challenges is it is much harder for them to feel socially affirmed. Depending on how their gender identity fluctuates day to day, it is much harder for them to feel affirmed in their identity because society is utterly cis normative. For example how do they feel affirmed by pronouns and gender markers on their bank card, utility bills, driving license etc etc. It's why their was a recent debate in parliament about having non-binary as a permissible gender on passports, something that has already been adopted in other countries. That's a very clear explanation thank you. I do find non-binary more difficult to understand - I don't feel that I have a gender identity myself but I accept that many others do. One of my children has several non-binary friends and I'm trying to keep abreast of these issues. It does make a great deal more sense to me now that NB is under the trans umbrella. It is very common for cisgender people to not feel that they have a gender identity, because it is something that never really occurs to them. I'm guessing that if you were asked your gender, you would say "I'm a woman of course". Which is a gender identity, that you do in fact acutely feel. However it is a gender identity that matches your body, and that corresponds to the way you have been treated by society from birth, so like most people you never really have to consider it. You don't have to consciously "identify" as female because it is so deeply embedded within you that it is just a core part of your full personal identity. It is only when that core part of your identity happens - for whatever reason - to not match what society keeps telling you your gender should be on the basis of what they think your body looks like, that it becomes something that you are very conscious of." No, I'm sorry. I can respect other people's feelings and I do, but I do not have a gender identity. I do not feel it acutely, I do not feel it at all. I am a woman - that's my sex. | |||
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"Someone just did a thread about someone messaging him telling him he had too many tattoos. Some people are like this. It’ll never stop. Just try and ignore and block them. " Commenting on a thread - in response to a direct question - is one thing, but why on earth do people send messages like that? Boggles the mind. | |||
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"What's is dms?" They are shoes that used to be made in Northampton. Made popular by skinheads, students and people who like to be ‘edgey’  | |||
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"Thank you everyone for your advice…finally found out how to filter my messages (because I couldn’t find it even though it was staring me right in the face) so hopefully things should be a bit better now ????" Hope you get left in peace now. | |||
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"Non-binary = attention seeking in the main. There are very few people who are truly non-binary. The rest are just attention seekers." I think that’s a bit harsh. To different degrees we’re all attention seekers on this site. The very existence of the site is due ti the need ti attract attention, We just have different angels. Whilst I don’t profess to have a scooby about living that experience - not something I have any knowledge or interest in tbh - given the exposure to negative attention it seems ti generate - as expressed by the OP and similarly in other threads - it would seem odd that people would choose it as a position simply ti gain attention. | |||
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" Trans and non binary are different things but you will get antagonistic people confusing the two and thinking they are in the right Non-binary falls under the umbrella term Trans. T But what are non-binary people transitioning to? I know Stonewall have a very wide umbrella definition I can't say it makes a lot of sense to me. Transgender means that someone's birth sex des not match their gender identity, not that they are transitioning. Ah that's the best explanation I've read for non-binary being trans. There's a mismatch between birth sex and gender identity. Or is mismatch the wrong word? It's as good a word as any! Transitioning is in many ways an unhelpful term because it suggests changing from something into something else, and that's misleading for trans people. Transgender people have a very instinctive sense of self and identity that doesn't match their biological sex. So, while I am on hormone treatment i'm not doing that to "become" a woman, as for me i have always identified as female so there is nothing to change. The reason most trans people who pursue medical treatment do so is to mitigate dysphoria, and so that their physical characteristics are more aligned to their internal sense of self. It's one of the reasons the "biological sex is real" line isn't the gotcha gender critical people think it is, because trans people are only too painfully aware of their birth biology, but what they are also completely aware of is that gender is an entirely social construct and for whatever reason, their gender is not the same as their biological sex. In blunt terms, i'm "transitioning" in the hope that seeing myself in a mirror feels less like i am looking at a stranger. One of the reasons that non-binary people have particular challenges is it is much harder for them to feel socially affirmed. Depending on how their gender identity fluctuates day to day, it is much harder for them to feel affirmed in their identity because society is utterly cis normative. For example how do they feel affirmed by pronouns and gender markers on their bank card, utility bills, driving license etc etc. It's why their was a recent debate in parliament about having non-binary as a permissible gender on passports, something that has already been adopted in other countries. That's a very clear explanation thank you. I do find non-binary more difficult to understand - I don't feel that I have a gender identity myself but I accept that many others do. One of my children has several non-binary friends and I'm trying to keep abreast of these issues. It does make a great deal more sense to me now that NB is under the trans umbrella. It is very common for cisgender people to not feel that they have a gender identity, because it is something that never really occurs to them. I'm guessing that if you were asked your gender, you would say "I'm a woman of course". Which is a gender identity, that you do in fact acutely feel. However it is a gender identity that matches your body, and that corresponds to the way you have been treated by society from birth, so like most people you never really have to consider it. You don't have to consciously "identify" as female because it is so deeply embedded within you that it is just a core part of your full personal identity. It is only when that core part of your identity happens - for whatever reason - to not match what society keeps telling you your gender should be on the basis of what they think your body looks like, that it becomes something that you are very conscious of. No, I'm sorry. I can respect other people's feelings and I do, but I do not have a gender identity. I do not feel it acutely, I do not feel it at all. I am a woman - that's my sex." But you've just asserted that you are a woman! That your identity is a woman. That literally is what gender identity is. You know that you are a woman. You tell people that you are a woman. You assert that your gender is female. You've always been a woman, you've never felt doubt about being a woman, you are a woman. Your gender is woman. The way that you identify your gender is woman. That is what gender identity is. The alternative is to assert that you don't have a gender identity, which in itself is a gender identity, meaning that you don't feel a male gender or a female gender, or anything in between, but that you sidestep the whole concept of gender. Which is a gender identity in itself; some people who feel this way refer to themselves as agender (sort of the gender equivalent of the asexual sexuality identity), or queergender (having a gender but it doesn't lie anywhere on the 1 dimensional axis between male and female, think more of gender being a 2 dimensional surface where there are male and female with a line in between, but also some alien options off sideways), or metagender (sort of rising above the queergender plane into concepts beyond gender...) | |||
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" Trans and non binary are different things but you will get antagonistic people confusing the two and thinking they are in the right Non-binary falls under the umbrella term Trans. T But what are non-binary people transitioning to? I know Stonewall have a very wide umbrella definition I can't say it makes a lot of sense to me. Transgender means that someone's birth sex des not match their gender identity, not that they are transitioning. Ah that's the best explanation I've read for non-binary being trans. There's a mismatch between birth sex and gender identity. Or is mismatch the wrong word? It's as good a word as any! Transitioning is in many ways an unhelpful term because it suggests changing from something into something else, and that's misleading for trans people. Transgender people have a very instinctive sense of self and identity that doesn't match their biological sex. So, while I am on hormone treatment i'm not doing that to "become" a woman, as for me i have always identified as female so there is nothing to change. The reason most trans people who pursue medical treatment do so is to mitigate dysphoria, and so that their physical characteristics are more aligned to their internal sense of self. It's one of the reasons the "biological sex is real" line isn't the gotcha gender critical people think it is, because trans people are only too painfully aware of their birth biology, but what they are also completely aware of is that gender is an entirely social construct and for whatever reason, their gender is not the same as their biological sex. In blunt terms, i'm "transitioning" in the hope that seeing myself in a mirror feels less like i am looking at a stranger. One of the reasons that non-binary people have particular challenges is it is much harder for them to feel socially affirmed. Depending on how their gender identity fluctuates day to day, it is much harder for them to feel affirmed in their identity because society is utterly cis normative. For example how do they feel affirmed by pronouns and gender markers on their bank card, utility bills, driving license etc etc. It's why their was a recent debate in parliament about having non-binary as a permissible gender on passports, something that has already been adopted in other countries. That's a very clear explanation thank you. I do find non-binary more difficult to understand - I don't feel that I have a gender identity myself but I accept that many others do. One of my children has several non-binary friends and I'm trying to keep abreast of these issues. It does make a great deal more sense to me now that NB is under the trans umbrella. It is very common for cisgender people to not feel that they have a gender identity, because it is something that never really occurs to them. I'm guessing that if you were asked your gender, you would say "I'm a woman of course". Which is a gender identity, that you do in fact acutely feel. However it is a gender identity that matches your body, and that corresponds to the way you have been treated by society from birth, so like most people you never really have to consider it. You don't have to consciously "identify" as female because it is so deeply embedded within you that it is just a core part of your full personal identity. It is only when that core part of your identity happens - for whatever reason - to not match what society keeps telling you your gender should be on the basis of what they think your body looks like, that it becomes something that you are very conscious of. No, I'm sorry. I can respect other people's feelings and I do, but I do not have a gender identity. I do not feel it acutely, I do not feel it at all. I am a woman - that's my sex. But you've just asserted that you are a woman! That your identity is a woman. That literally is what gender identity is. You know that you are a woman. You tell people that you are a woman. You assert that your gender is female. You've always been a woman, you've never felt doubt about being a woman, you are a woman. Your gender is woman. The way that you identify your gender is woman. That is what gender identity is. The alternative is to assert that you don't have a gender identity, which in itself is a gender identity, meaning that you don't feel a male gender or a female gender, or anything in between, but that you sidestep the whole concept of gender. Which is a gender identity in itself; some people who feel this way refer to themselves as agender (sort of the gender equivalent of the asexual sexuality identity), or queergender (having a gender but it doesn't lie anywhere on the 1 dimensional axis between male and female, think more of gender being a 2 dimensional surface where there are male and female with a line in between, but also some alien options off sideways), or metagender (sort of rising above the queergender plane into concepts beyond gender...) "I feel like you might've just entirely missed the point there. OP said "I am a woman, that's my sex" I believe they were referring to the physical nature of their body, as a few people have questioned it previously, and their profile is fairly ambiguous on that front. Gender identity doesn't have much, if anything, to do with the physical nature of one's body, but leans more toward how they feel inside. Just because somebody is physically female, doesn't necessarily mean they mentally feel female... From my understanding, THAT is the difference between a person's sex, and their gender identity. | |||
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" Trans and non binary are different things but you will get antagonistic people confusing the two and thinking they are in the right Non-binary falls under the umbrella term Trans. T But what are non-binary people transitioning to? I know Stonewall have a very wide umbrella definition I can't say it makes a lot of sense to me. Transgender means that someone's birth sex des not match their gender identity, not that they are transitioning. Ah that's the best explanation I've read for non-binary being trans. There's a mismatch between birth sex and gender identity. Or is mismatch the wrong word? It's as good a word as any! Transitioning is in many ways an unhelpful term because it suggests changing from something into something else, and that's misleading for trans people. Transgender people have a very instinctive sense of self and identity that doesn't match their biological sex. So, while I am on hormone treatment i'm not doing that to "become" a woman, as for me i have always identified as female so there is nothing to change. The reason most trans people who pursue medical treatment do so is to mitigate dysphoria, and so that their physical characteristics are more aligned to their internal sense of self. It's one of the reasons the "biological sex is real" line isn't the gotcha gender critical people think it is, because trans people are only too painfully aware of their birth biology, but what they are also completely aware of is that gender is an entirely social construct and for whatever reason, their gender is not the same as their biological sex. In blunt terms, i'm "transitioning" in the hope that seeing myself in a mirror feels less like i am looking at a stranger. One of the reasons that non-binary people have particular challenges is it is much harder for them to feel socially affirmed. Depending on how their gender identity fluctuates day to day, it is much harder for them to feel affirmed in their identity because society is utterly cis normative. For example how do they feel affirmed by pronouns and gender markers on their bank card, utility bills, driving license etc etc. It's why their was a recent debate in parliament about having non-binary as a permissible gender on passports, something that has already been adopted in other countries. That's a very clear explanation thank you. I do find non-binary more difficult to understand - I don't feel that I have a gender identity myself but I accept that many others do. One of my children has several non-binary friends and I'm trying to keep abreast of these issues. It does make a great deal more sense to me now that NB is under the trans umbrella. It is very common for cisgender people to not feel that they have a gender identity, because it is something that never really occurs to them. I'm guessing that if you were asked your gender, you would say "I'm a woman of course". Which is a gender identity, that you do in fact acutely feel. However it is a gender identity that matches your body, and that corresponds to the way you have been treated by society from birth, so like most people you never really have to consider it. You don't have to consciously "identify" as female because it is so deeply embedded within you that it is just a core part of your full personal identity. It is only when that core part of your identity happens - for whatever reason - to not match what society keeps telling you your gender should be on the basis of what they think your body looks like, that it becomes something that you are very conscious of. No, I'm sorry. I can respect other people's feelings and I do, but I do not have a gender identity. I do not feel it acutely, I do not feel it at all. I am a woman - that's my sex. But you've just asserted that you are a woman! That your identity is a woman. That literally is what gender identity is. You know that you are a woman. You tell people that you are a woman. You assert that your gender is female. You've always been a woman, you've never felt doubt about being a woman, you are a woman. Your gender is woman. The way that you identify your gender is woman. That is what gender identity is. The alternative is to assert that you don't have a gender identity, which in itself is a gender identity, meaning that you don't feel a male gender or a female gender, or anything in between, but that you sidestep the whole concept of gender. Which is a gender identity in itself; some people who feel this way refer to themselves as agender (sort of the gender equivalent of the asexual sexuality identity), or queergender (having a gender but it doesn't lie anywhere on the 1 dimensional axis between male and female, think more of gender being a 2 dimensional surface where there are male and female with a line in between, but also some alien options off sideways), or metagender (sort of rising above the queergender plane into concepts beyond gender...) "Polly, please respect my views. I respect yours. You keep on insisting that I have a gender identity - no, I do not feel I have one and I think it's an ideology I do not believe in. Me saying that I am a woman is just a statement of fact. My SEX is female. You keep rewording what I say into your own beliefs. That's not what I believe. I can understand that other people have very strong feelings about their gender. Why can you not respect my views? Don't rename it as being agender etc - you're twisting what I've said to fit your world view. It is NOT mine. I think this is verging on rude. | |||
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"Non-binary = attention seeking in the main. There are very few people who are truly non-binary. The rest are just attention seekers." How rude.  | |||
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"Apologies if I've missed it. OP, Are you receiving hate messages based on being non-binary or are some people merely trying to establish if you were born male or female? The reason I ask this is because I've read your profile and I've no idea whether you have a female or male body and I think thats the potential issue for some people that message you hoping it would lead to a meet. For some people this matters if things were to progress past talking. For example, pretend I'm a gay female (Not bisexual) if I was looking for another female to play with and were winked by you etc. My first question would be do you have a female body or a male body, your profile would suggest perhaps female but it's also vague enough for you not to be. If you were to have a males body I'd unlikely find you my type, so naturally questions from me about your sex would arise. Personally I don't care how someone sees themselves on fab. For me its about whether I'm attracted to them or not and their personality and attitude. But OP I do think you could have wrote your profile better. Its so ambiguous and I think thats the reason for the volume of messages. Regardless either way, you do not deserve abuse. I’m non-binary; im not a woman nor a man, hence why I haven’t got it anywhere on my profile. My birth gender is nobody’s business unless we actually properly get to know each other." Sorry but for many of us looking for sex based on our sexual preferences, it matters very much if someone has a plug or a socket. There's no call for anyone to abuse you, but ultimately this site is for finding cohorts in sexual pleasures & it's not a surprise that folk want to know that basic biological detail before going any further. | |||
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" Trans and non binary are different things but you will get antagonistic people confusing the two and thinking they are in the right Non-binary falls under the umbrella term Trans. T But what are non-binary people transitioning to? I know Stonewall have a very wide umbrella definition I can't say it makes a lot of sense to me. Transgender means that someone's birth sex des not match their gender identity, not that they are transitioning. Ah that's the best explanation I've read for non-binary being trans. There's a mismatch between birth sex and gender identity. Or is mismatch the wrong word? It's as good a word as any! Transitioning is in many ways an unhelpful term because it suggests changing from something into something else, and that's misleading for trans people. Transgender people have a very instinctive sense of self and identity that doesn't match their biological sex. So, while I am on hormone treatment i'm not doing that to "become" a woman, as for me i have always identified as female so there is nothing to change. The reason most trans people who pursue medical treatment do so is to mitigate dysphoria, and so that their physical characteristics are more aligned to their internal sense of self. It's one of the reasons the "biological sex is real" line isn't the gotcha gender critical people think it is, because trans people are only too painfully aware of their birth biology, but what they are also completely aware of is that gender is an entirely social construct and for whatever reason, their gender is not the same as their biological sex. In blunt terms, i'm "transitioning" in the hope that seeing myself in a mirror feels less like i am looking at a stranger. One of the reasons that non-binary people have particular challenges is it is much harder for them to feel socially affirmed. Depending on how their gender identity fluctuates day to day, it is much harder for them to feel affirmed in their identity because society is utterly cis normative. For example how do they feel affirmed by pronouns and gender markers on their bank card, utility bills, driving license etc etc. It's why their was a recent debate in parliament about having non-binary as a permissible gender on passports, something that has already been adopted in other countries. That's a very clear explanation thank you. I do find non-binary more difficult to understand - I don't feel that I have a gender identity myself but I accept that many others do. One of my children has several non-binary friends and I'm trying to keep abreast of these issues. It does make a great deal more sense to me now that NB is under the trans umbrella. It is very common for cisgender people to not feel that they have a gender identity, because it is something that never really occurs to them. I'm guessing that if you were asked your gender, you would say "I'm a woman of course". Which is a gender identity, that you do in fact acutely feel. However it is a gender identity that matches your body, and that corresponds to the way you have been treated by society from birth, so like most people you never really have to consider it. You don't have to consciously "identify" as female because it is so deeply embedded within you that it is just a core part of your full personal identity. It is only when that core part of your identity happens - for whatever reason - to not match what society keeps telling you your gender should be on the basis of what they think your body looks like, that it becomes something that you are very conscious of. No, I'm sorry. I can respect other people's feelings and I do, but I do not have a gender identity. I do not feel it acutely, I do not feel it at all. I am a woman - that's my sex. But you've just asserted that you are a woman! That your identity is a woman. That literally is what gender identity is. You know that you are a woman. You tell people that you are a woman. You assert that your gender is female. You've always been a woman, you've never felt doubt about being a woman, you are a woman. Your gender is woman. The way that you identify your gender is woman. That is what gender identity is. The alternative is to assert that you don't have a gender identity, which in itself is a gender identity, meaning that you don't feel a male gender or a female gender, or anything in between, but that you sidestep the whole concept of gender. Which is a gender identity in itself; some people who feel this way refer to themselves as agender (sort of the gender equivalent of the asexual sexuality identity), or queergender (having a gender but it doesn't lie anywhere on the 1 dimensional axis between male and female, think more of gender being a 2 dimensional surface where there are male and female with a line in between, but also some alien options off sideways), or metagender (sort of rising above the queergender plane into concepts beyond gender...)
Polly, please respect my views. I respect yours. You keep on insisting that I have a gender identity - no, I do not feel I have one and I think it's an ideology I do not believe in. Me saying that I am a woman is just a statement of fact. My SEX is female. You keep rewording what I say into your own beliefs. That's not what I believe. I can understand that other people have very strong feelings about their gender. Why can you not respect my views? Don't rename it as being agender etc - you're twisting what I've said to fit your world view. It is NOT mine. I think this is verging on rude. "I'm sorry, no offence is meant. Communication by written messages only is a very blunt instrument, with few cues about emotional tone. IMHO why discussions so easily descend into chaos. Gender, sexuality, anatomical sex, all matters surrounding this, are a difficult discussion because (IMHO) so much is tied up with the use of a language that means different things to different people. And it all keys into notions of identity and identification, personality and the very core of who we, each individual person, actually are. Again, my apologies, and I shall drop out of this thread. Best regards, Polly xx. | |||
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"Surely the fact the OP states being Lesbian, must by default mean they are female, ie binary. Or maybe I got this wrong, but from the profile it seems clear to me what they identify as. " Non-binary people are included in lesbianism. I identified as lesbian before I identified as non-binary; my sex is female. My gender is non-binary. | |||
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"Polly, please respect my views. I respect yours. You keep on insisting that I have a gender identity - no, I do not feel I have one and I think it's an ideology I do not believe in. Me saying that I am a woman is just a statement of fact. My SEX is female. You keep rewording what I say into your own beliefs. That's not what I believe. I can understand that other people have very strong feelings about their gender. Why can you not respect my views? Don't rename it as being agender etc - you're twisting what I've said to fit your world view. It is NOT mine. I think this is verging on rude. " Why do you consider Polly's views an ideology but your views factual? An estimated 1 in 15,000 XY-males grow up as women. Never notice it, never comes up. Born, live, have kids, grow old, die. There's nothing wrong with them, it just is how they are. Unless you've had a test to confirm your chromosomal sex, you wouldn't know. If you consider your sex to be a statement of fact, consider this: if we tested you, and you turned out to be one of those XY-males that developed female differentiation, and grew up as a woman, would you "become" a man? Would you start dressing, talking, and otherwise presenting as a man? Or would you consider your gender to be different to your sex? | |||
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" Trans and non binary are different things but you will get antagonistic people confusing the two and thinking they are in the right Non-binary falls under the umbrella term Trans. T But what are non-binary people transitioning to? I know Stonewall have a very wide umbrella definition I can't say it makes a lot of sense to me. Transgender means that someone's birth sex des not match their gender identity, not that they are transitioning. Ah that's the best explanation I've read for non-binary being trans. There's a mismatch between birth sex and gender identity. Or is mismatch the wrong word? It's as good a word as any! Transitioning is in many ways an unhelpful term because it suggests changing from something into something else, and that's misleading for trans people. Transgender people have a very instinctive sense of self and identity that doesn't match their biological sex. So, while I am on hormone treatment i'm not doing that to "become" a woman, as for me i have always identified as female so there is nothing to change. The reason most trans people who pursue medical treatment do so is to mitigate dysphoria, and so that their physical characteristics are more aligned to their internal sense of self. It's one of the reasons the "biological sex is real" line isn't the gotcha gender critical people think it is, because trans people are only too painfully aware of their birth biology, but what they are also completely aware of is that gender is an entirely social construct and for whatever reason, their gender is not the same as their biological sex. In blunt terms, i'm "transitioning" in the hope that seeing myself in a mirror feels less like i am looking at a stranger. One of the reasons that non-binary people have particular challenges is it is much harder for them to feel socially affirmed. Depending on how their gender identity fluctuates day to day, it is much harder for them to feel affirmed in their identity because society is utterly cis normative. For example how do they feel affirmed by pronouns and gender markers on their bank card, utility bills, driving license etc etc. It's why their was a recent debate in parliament about having non-binary as a permissible gender on passports, something that has already been adopted in other countries. That's a very clear explanation thank you. I do find non-binary more difficult to understand - I don't feel that I have a gender identity myself but I accept that many others do. One of my children has several non-binary friends and I'm trying to keep abreast of these issues. It does make a great deal more sense to me now that NB is under the trans umbrella. It is very common for cisgender people to not feel that they have a gender identity, because it is something that never really occurs to them. I'm guessing that if you were asked your gender, you would say "I'm a woman of course". Which is a gender identity, that you do in fact acutely feel. However it is a gender identity that matches your body, and that corresponds to the way you have been treated by society from birth, so like most people you never really have to consider it. You don't have to consciously "identify" as female because it is so deeply embedded within you that it is just a core part of your full personal identity. It is only when that core part of your identity happens - for whatever reason - to not match what society keeps telling you your gender should be on the basis of what they think your body looks like, that it becomes something that you are very conscious of. No, I'm sorry. I can respect other people's feelings and I do, but I do not have a gender identity. I do not feel it acutely, I do not feel it at all. I am a woman - that's my sex. But you've just asserted that you are a woman! That your identity is a woman. That literally is what gender identity is. You know that you are a woman. You tell people that you are a woman. You assert that your gender is female. You've always been a woman, you've never felt doubt about being a woman, you are a woman. Your gender is woman. The way that you identify your gender is woman. That is what gender identity is. The alternative is to assert that you don't have a gender identity, which in itself is a gender identity, meaning that you don't feel a male gender or a female gender, or anything in between, but that you sidestep the whole concept of gender. Which is a gender identity in itself; some people who feel this way refer to themselves as agender (sort of the gender equivalent of the asexual sexuality identity), or queergender (having a gender but it doesn't lie anywhere on the 1 dimensional axis between male and female, think more of gender being a 2 dimensional surface where there are male and female with a line in between, but also some alien options off sideways), or metagender (sort of rising above the queergender plane into concepts beyond gender...)
Polly, please respect my views. I respect yours. You keep on insisting that I have a gender identity - no, I do not feel I have one and I think it's an ideology I do not believe in. Me saying that I am a woman is just a statement of fact. My SEX is female. You keep rewording what I say into your own beliefs. That's not what I believe. I can understand that other people have very strong feelings about their gender. Why can you not respect my views? Don't rename it as being agender etc - you're twisting what I've said to fit your world view. It is NOT mine. I think this is verging on rude.
I'm sorry, no offence is meant. Communication by written messages only is a very blunt instrument, with few cues about emotional tone. IMHO why discussions so easily descend into chaos.
Gender, sexuality, anatomical sex, all matters surrounding this, are a difficult discussion because (IMHO) so much is tied up with the use of a language that means different things to different people. And it all keys into notions of identity and identification, personality and the very core of who we, each individual person, actually are.
Again, my apologies, and I shall drop out of this thread. Best regards, Polly xx."Thank you. You're so right, it's quite difficult to have these conversations online. I've always admired the way you write on here and your insights. Xx | |||
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"Polly, please respect my views. I respect yours. You keep on insisting that I have a gender identity - no, I do not feel I have one and I think it's an ideology I do not believe in. Me saying that I am a woman is just a statement of fact. My SEX is female. You keep rewording what I say into your own beliefs. That's not what I believe. I can understand that other people have very strong feelings about their gender. Why can you not respect my views? Don't rename it as being agender etc - you're twisting what I've said to fit your world view. It is NOT mine. I think this is verging on rude. Why do you consider Polly's views an ideology but your views factual? An estimated 1 in 15,000 XY-males grow up as women. Never notice it, never comes up. Born, live, have kids, grow old, die. There's nothing wrong with them, it just is how they are. Unless you've had a test to confirm your chromosomal sex, you wouldn't know. If you consider your sex to be a statement of fact, consider this: if we tested you, and you turned out to be one of those XY-males that developed female differentiation, and grew up as a woman, would you "become" a man? Would you start dressing, talking, and otherwise presenting as a man? Or would you consider your gender to be different to your sex?" I don't want to hijack the thread any further. The topic isn't gender identity. The topic certainly isn't DSDs. I should be allowed to say that I don't have a gender identity just as the OP can say they are non-binary. Both are valid. | |||
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  )
I’m a woman. Nothing more nothing less. That’s how I wish to be referred. No other words added to that. If others want to be referred to as other things that is fine and I will do that (if I’m aware of it) but I’m a woman. People who do wish to be referred to as they/them need to understand that most of us have used he/she our whole lives and mistakes will happen. It’s when people kick off over these mistakes then I lose interest in anything they have to say. I am well aware some people will get it wrong on purpose and do it deliberately but I think these kind of people are very easy to identify from there attitude. | |||
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"I agree with inconceivable on this (shock horror let me pick myself up off the floor! )
I’m a woman. Nothing more nothing less. That’s how I wish to be referred. No other words added to that. If others want to be referred to as other things that is fine and I will do that (if I’m aware of it) but I’m a woman. People who do wish to be referred to as they/them need to understand that most of us have used he/she our whole lives and mistakes will happen. It’s when people kick off over these mistakes then I lose interest in anything they have to say. I am well aware some people will get it wrong on purpose and do it deliberately but I think these kind of people are very easy to identify from there attitude. "*their attitude. | |||
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"Polly, please respect my views. I respect yours. You keep on insisting that I have a gender identity - no, I do not feel I have one and I think it's an ideology I do not believe in. Me saying that I am a woman is just a statement of fact. My SEX is female. You keep rewording what I say into your own beliefs. That's not what I believe. I can understand that other people have very strong feelings about their gender. Why can you not respect my views? Don't rename it as being agender etc - you're twisting what I've said to fit your world view. It is NOT mine. I think this is verging on rude. Why do you consider Polly's views an ideology but your views factual? An estimated 1 in 15,000 XY-males grow up as women. Never notice it, never comes up. Born, live, have kids, grow old, die. There's nothing wrong with them, it just is how they are. Unless you've had a test to confirm your chromosomal sex, you wouldn't know. If you consider your sex to be a statement of fact, consider this: if we tested you, and you turned out to be one of those XY-males that developed female differentiation, and grew up as a woman, would you "become" a man? Would you start dressing, talking, and otherwise presenting as a man? Or would you consider your gender to be different to your sex? I don't want to hijack the thread any further. The topic isn't gender identity. The topic certainly isn't DSDs. I should be allowed to say that I don't have a gender identity just as the OP can say they are non-binary. Both are valid. " You aren't acting like both are valid though - you've said that what you believe is "fact" and that gender identity forms part of an "ideology" you don't subscribe to. With regards to derailing the thread, I don't think anyone would really mind. Conversations rarely end how they start, and I think your answer to the question I posed would help me to understand why you reject gender identity as an idea. | |||
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"I agree with inconceivable on this (shock horror let me pick myself up off the floor! )
I’m a woman. Nothing more nothing less. That’s how I wish to be referred. No other words added to that. If others want to be referred to as other things that is fine and I will do that (if I’m aware of it) but I’m a woman. People who do wish to be referred to as they/them need to understand that most of us have used he/she our whole lives and mistakes will happen. It’s when people kick off over these mistakes then I lose interest in anything they have to say. I am well aware some people will get it wrong on purpose and do it deliberately but I think these kind of people are very easy to identify from there attitude. "Do you have a fever, Nora?!  | |||
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"I agree with inconceivable on this (shock horror let me pick myself up off the floor! )
I’m a woman. Nothing more nothing less. That’s how I wish to be referred. No other words added to that. If others want to be referred to as other things that is fine and I will do that (if I’m aware of it) but I’m a woman. People who do wish to be referred to as they/them need to understand that most of us have used he/she our whole lives and mistakes will happen. It’s when people kick off over these mistakes then I lose interest in anything they have to say. I am well aware some people will get it wrong on purpose and do it deliberately but I think these kind of people are very easy to identify from there attitude.
Do you have a fever, Nora?! " . | |||
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"Polly, please respect my views. I respect yours. You keep on insisting that I have a gender identity - no, I do not feel I have one and I think it's an ideology I do not believe in. Me saying that I am a woman is just a statement of fact. My SEX is female. You keep rewording what I say into your own beliefs. That's not what I believe. I can understand that other people have very strong feelings about their gender. Why can you not respect my views? Don't rename it as being agender etc - you're twisting what I've said to fit your world view. It is NOT mine. I think this is verging on rude. Why do you consider Polly's views an ideology but your views factual? An estimated 1 in 15,000 XY-males grow up as women. Never notice it, never comes up. Born, live, have kids, grow old, die. There's nothing wrong with them, it just is how they are. Unless you've had a test to confirm your chromosomal sex, you wouldn't know. If you consider your sex to be a statement of fact, consider this: if we tested you, and you turned out to be one of those XY-males that developed female differentiation, and grew up as a woman, would you "become" a man? Would you start dressing, talking, and otherwise presenting as a man? Or would you consider your gender to be different to your sex? I don't want to hijack the thread any further. The topic isn't gender identity. The topic certainly isn't DSDs. I should be allowed to say that I don't have a gender identity just as the OP can say they are non-binary. Both are valid. You aren't acting like both are valid though - you've said that what you believe is "fact" and that gender identity forms part of an "ideology" you don't subscribe to. With regards to derailing the thread, I don't think anyone would really mind. Conversations rarely end how they start, and I think your answer to the question I posed would help me to understand why you reject gender identity as an idea." That is really unfair to suggest I'm not acting as though NB isn't valid. Look at my comments and support throughout this thread. I reject gender identity for ME. I've explained why. I categorically don't reject it for others. | |||
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"That is really unfair to suggest I'm not acting as though NB isn't valid. Look at my comments and support throughout this thread. I reject gender identity for ME. I've explained why. I categorically don't reject it for others. " It's unfair to tell someone else their belief is an "ideology" and that yours is a "fact". There was no need for that. The explanation doesn't make sense. It would be like saying you reject sexual orientation for you, but not for everyone else. Your explanation implies that you don't need a gender identity because you have a chromosomal sex that defines it, but that's a flawed premise (also, to extend the simile, something people also believed about sexual orientation for a long time). I posed a question which I can't resolve using your belief framework - to me, if you believe what you believe, then such a test would uproot your whole life! Whereas to someone that believes sex, sexual differentiation, and gender are all different things (which often, but not always, align) it would just be "huh, that's neat". | |||
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"Polly, please respect my views. I respect yours. You keep on insisting that I have a gender identity - no, I do not feel I have one and I think it's an ideology I do not believe in. Me saying that I am a woman is just a statement of fact. My SEX is female. You keep rewording what I say into your own beliefs. That's not what I believe. I can understand that other people have very strong feelings about their gender. Why can you not respect my views? Don't rename it as being agender etc - you're twisting what I've said to fit your world view. It is NOT mine. I think this is verging on rude. Why do you consider Polly's views an ideology but your views factual? An estimated 1 in 15,000 XY-males grow up as women. Never notice it, never comes up. Born, live, have kids, grow old, die. There's nothing wrong with them, it just is how they are. Unless you've had a test to confirm your chromosomal sex, you wouldn't know. If you consider your sex to be a statement of fact, consider this: if we tested you, and you turned out to be one of those XY-males that developed female differentiation, and grew up as a woman, would you "become" a man? Would you start dressing, talking, and otherwise presenting as a man? Or would you consider your gender to be different to your sex? I don't want to hijack the thread any further. The topic isn't gender identity. The topic certainly isn't DSDs. I should be allowed to say that I don't have a gender identity just as the OP can say they are non-binary. Both are valid. " I think there has been some misunderstanding along the line here and I feel like there are some points that havent been made clearly. Im hoping I can clarify without insulting anyone! Sorry if this is a bit long! When we talk about "identity" we are refering to lots of ideas about who we are. These can be to do with how we spend our time or what ideologies we have, and they can also be based on our relationships with others. This is social psychology btw. Its not just stuff I am making up on the spot or stuff that only queer people say. So, a person might identify as a "doctor", "brother", "parent" "christian", "student" etc. They might also describe themselves as "kind", "impatient", "outgoing", "lazy" and this can also be part of our identity. Often we combine those things. "Im a lazy student", "Im an outgoing pensioner" etc. These identities help us navigate the world and inform our behaviour. A person who identifies as traditional is likely to wear different clothes to someone who views themself as a radical progressive. One of the fundamental identities is to do with gender and this isnt something we can opt out of. It is a concept in our society that helps us know who we are and how we fit in with others. It influences the activities we do, the clothes we wear and the places we go. That is why there are more women than men who wear make up and dresses. Its also why more men choose to play football rather than learning to knit. So gender identity is a concept that goes back a long way, before trans ideas entered the mainstream. The queer movement and particularly people who are non-binary want to challenge this idea of gender roles. They say that the ideas of "man" and "woman" are made up by society and do not match the experience they are having. So queer people might say "I dont have a gender identity" or "my gender identity is fluid" to get away from the traditional ideas of "man" and "woman" If you are someone who subscribes to a traditional gender model, it would probably be more acurate to say that you identify as a woman. Otherwise a lot of social psychologists (along with queer people) will get totally the wrong idea and think you are rejecting those traditional models of gender. Hope that is clarifying (and appologies if I did manage to upset anyone...)! 
Fay x | |||
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" ….. The queer movement and particularly people who are non-binary want to challenge this idea of gender roles. They say that the ideas of "man" and "woman" are made up by society and do not match the experience they are having. So queer people might say "I dont have a gender identity" or "my gender identity is fluid" to get away from the traditional ideas of "man" and "woman" …. " Is this not the very definition of an ideology? Like the NRA believing in the right to bare arms or in years gone buy the flat earth vs sphere ‘movements’. It was stated above that it was not fair to present one person’s position as fact and dismiss the other as an ideology. But who decides what is what? The description of a movement who want to challenge an idea sounds like it is about opinions. Not facts. | |||
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"So basically, you already know there isn’t a way You just wanted an excuse to say you have transphobe in your dms Why not just be direct instead of beating around the bush The answer is to report the messages. That’s all you can do outside of closing off all messages I’m new here; so I don’t know whether there is or isn’t a way. Second of all, my status already says I have transphobes in my dms; I just need to know how to stop them before they come into my dms Well if you ever figure out how to ban transphobes through the internet before they’ve acted, you might wanna hold onto that technology. Because as you said. It’s impossible to tell if someone is or isn’t, until they show you. So technically, it’s impossible to stop just them. You’d need to stop everyone Report helps. Admins are pretty good if it’s real abuse " Pretty sure Tom Cruise knew a way.. | |||
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" ….. The queer movement and particularly people who are non-binary want to challenge this idea of gender roles. They say that the ideas of "man" and "woman" are made up by society and do not match the experience they are having. So queer people might say "I dont have a gender identity" or "my gender identity is fluid" to get away from the traditional ideas of "man" and "woman" …. Is this not the very definition of an ideology? Like the NRA believing in the right to bare arms or in years gone buy the flat earth vs sphere ‘movements’. It was stated above that it was not fair to present one person’s position as fact and dismiss the other as an ideology. But who decides what is what? The description of a movement who want to challenge an idea sounds like it is about opinions. Not facts. " The idea that people should be free to express their identity without being confined to gender roles is as much an ideology as the idea that people SHOULD be confined to gender roles, sure. It's a set of beliefs, grounded in values. The LGBT+ rights movement has been challenging the prevailing ideologies around sexuality and gender this whole time, and you choose - implicitly or explicitly - which ideology you subscribe to. The idea that there are people whose experiences don't match those gender roles isn't an ideology though - it's a fact. It is a fact that trans people exist, and that non-binary people exist. It is a fact that sex does not always equal sex differentiation, or that either equals your gender identity (or sexual orientation, or.. interests, or anything else). The ideology really decides what you do with these facts. | |||
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"That is really unfair to suggest I'm not acting as though NB isn't valid. Look at my comments and support throughout this thread. I reject gender identity for ME. I've explained why. I categorically don't reject it for others. It's unfair to tell someone else their belief is an "ideology" and that yours is a "fact". There was no need for that. The explanation doesn't make sense. It would be like saying you reject sexual orientation for you, but not for everyone else. Your explanation implies that you don't need a gender identity because you have a chromosomal sex that defines it, but that's a flawed premise (also, to extend the simile, something people also believed about sexual orientation for a long time). I posed a question which I can't resolve using your belief framework - to me, if you believe what you believe, then such a test would uproot your whole life! Whereas to someone that believes sex, sexual differentiation, and gender are all different things (which often, but not always, align) it would just be "huh, that's neat"." I think you're looking to find offense and no matter how I worded it you'd find it. Sex is material - it's there visibly and physically. That is what I mean by fact - my sex is material. Gender can be just as real and just as valid but it is not material. My sex is female - I am ignoring your straw man DSD "test". If someone else wants to say that I identify as a woman - ok. If someone else wants to say I am agender - ok. I'm not going to say those things about myself because I don't believe in those things for myself. I do not feel them. I would like my beliefs about myself to be respected. Just as I respect other peoples beliefs about themselves. That they identity as female or that they are non-binary. Those are valid. And so are the things I believe. | |||
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" ….. The queer movement and particularly people who are non-binary want to challenge this idea of gender roles. They say that the ideas of "man" and "woman" are made up by society and do not match the experience they are having. So queer people might say "I dont have a gender identity" or "my gender identity is fluid" to get away from the traditional ideas of "man" and "woman" …. Is this not the very definition of an ideology? Like the NRA believing in the right to bare arms or in years gone buy the flat earth vs sphere ‘movements’. It was stated above that it was not fair to present one person’s position as fact and dismiss the other as an ideology. But who decides what is what? The description of a movement who want to challenge an idea sounds like it is about opinions. Not facts. The idea that people should be free to express their identity without being confined to gender roles is as much an ideology as the idea that people SHOULD be confined to gender roles, sure. It's a set of beliefs, grounded in values. The LGBT+ rights movement has been challenging the prevailing ideologies around sexuality and gender this whole time, and you choose - implicitly or explicitly - which ideology you subscribe to. The idea that there are people whose experiences don't match those gender roles isn't an ideology though - it's a fact. It is a fact that trans people exist, and that non-binary people exist. It is a fact that sex does not always equal sex differentiation, or that either equals your gender identity (or sexual orientation, or.. interests, or anything else). The ideology really decides what you do with these facts." Thank you. In terms of positioning the argument your points make sense. The transphobia there fore relates to sex and the other stuff of binary and fluid whatever relates to gender? The former being based on science, the later being based on personal opinion/choice as part of an ideology? I’ve never understood why people learn to play the bagpipes either. Either way nobody should be messaging people with hate about it. Absolutely no need for that at all. | |||
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"Yawn yawn ?? " There is a thread somewhere about bareback ass fucking you could entertain yourself with... | |||
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"Thank you. In terms of positioning the argument your points make sense. The transphobia there fore relates to sex and the other stuff of binary and fluid whatever relates to gender? The former being based on science, the later being based on personal opinion/choice as part of an ideology? I’ve never understood why people learn to play the bagpipes either. Either way nobody should be messaging people with hate about it. Absolutely no need for that at all. " Well sex and gender are both based in facts, right? There's no "trans ideology" or "gender ideology" or anything. There are many specific ideologies that pro-LGBT subscribe to but a broad umbrella would be "social liberalism" - the idea that individuals should be free - and as this relates to sex and gender, if someone is born with a vagina but feels more comfortable presenting as a man (or, as both - or neither) - then from an ideological perspective we'd say "that's fine, crack on" and seek to ensure they can live life as fully as anyone else. The other side of that is, broadly, "social conservatism" - a commitment to some sort of specific structure and hierarchy. An example of that is strong, binary gender roles that every person in society is expected to uphold. You must grow up to develop and maintain a laundry list of traits that match the gender you're assigned at birth (no matter how you feel about that), if you're born with (or develop) things that don't match that binary they must be corrected, and if you notice anyone deviating from those norms then you need to coerce and bully them until they "get back in to line". As an example, if someone believes that trans women are a threat to women then it becomes their duty to ensure they are excluded and kept on the margins of society. Essentially, they'd need to treat them like you would a criminal. But the facts are not in question - to know they need to oppress someone they need to accept that they exist (even if they believe they need to stop existing). They might call their existence "gender ideology" - but the fear is not that people might be convinced to be trans, but that existing trans people might feel they no longer need to pretend to fit the expected norms. Sex and gender are facts; whether or not they must align is ideology. (I should note when talking about social liberalism/conservatism that these ideologies don't match neatly to political parties, or to how we might use those words in other contexts) | |||
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"Has the issue of the toilets ever been fully sorted..." I doubt someone is going to tbe toilet in their DMs | |||
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"Yawn yawn ?? " I wouldn’t go that far but tell me what you want to be referred to as and that’s enough for me, I’ll do it. Reading all this is hurting my head! | |||
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"Yawn yawn ?? I wouldn’t go that far but tell me what you want to be referred to as and that’s enough for me, I’ll do it. Reading all this is hurting my head! " I need a whole packet | |||
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"I am happy to call anybody to call anybody by whatever title they choose however.. Why don't we just use their name. My name is Tom. Call me Tom." And yet look how easy you found it to use 'they' and 'their' | |||
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"I am happy to call anybody to call anybody by whatever title they choose however.. Why don't we just use their name. My name is Tom. Call me Tom. And yet look how easy you found it to use 'they' and 'their'" That’s because in that sentence it’s natural to do so. This morning I said to my daughter ask that lady if she’d like to sit in your seat. That’s natural to me. Ask that person if they’d like to sit in your seat is not. | |||
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"I am happy to call anybody to call anybody by whatever title they choose however.. Why don't we just use their name. My name is Tom. Call me Tom. And yet look how easy you found it to use 'they' and 'their' That’s because in that sentence it’s natural to do so. This morning I said to my daughter ask that lady if she’d like to sit in your seat. That’s natural to me. Ask that person if they’d like to sit in your seat is not. " I actually find "them/they're" a lot easier to get used to than I thought it would be. One of my kids has so many friends who are NB that it was easier to just use them all the time! | |||
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"And why is the word “phobia” being tacked into the end of everything to label those who don’t agree as “bad”. There’s a big difference between being afraid of something and exhibiting hatred or discrimination and bigotry. " This x a million.. I dislike phobic tagged onto anyone who dare challenge or debate... | |||
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"And why is the word “phobia” being tacked into the end of everything to label those who don’t agree as “bad”. There’s a big difference between being afraid of something and exhibiting hatred or discrimination and bigotry. This x a million.. I dislike phobic tagged onto anyone who dare challenge or debate... "Coming into my dms telling me I need to pick XX or XY; saying that it’s a figment of my imagination; saying that I’m a freak and weird, isn’t a challenge or a debate. It’s transphobia clear as day. And why are peoples identities up for debate anyway? THEY AREN’T. Just let trans people, gay people, LGBT people exist in peace. Our identities aren’t political and they aren’t up for debate. | |||
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"And why is the word “phobia” being tacked into the end of everything to label those who don’t agree as “bad”. There’s a big difference between being afraid of something and exhibiting hatred or discrimination and bigotry. This x a million.. I dislike phobic tagged onto anyone who dare challenge or debate...
Coming into my dms telling me I need to pick XX or XY; saying that it’s a figment of my imagination; saying that I’m a freak and weird, isn’t a challenge or a debate. It’s transphobia clear as day. And why are peoples identities up for debate anyway? THEY AREN’T. Just let trans people, gay people, LGBT people exist in peace. Our identities aren’t political and they aren’t up for debate. "I’m not disagreeing with you about your rights and that dm’ing you abuse is wrong. I was asking why the -phobic was being applied to terms like this. A phobia is a fear. The left should have applied a different term. That was my point. | |||
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"And why is the word “phobia” being tacked into the end of everything to label those who don’t agree as “bad”. There’s a big difference between being afraid of something and exhibiting hatred or discrimination and bigotry. This x a million.. I dislike phobic tagged onto anyone who dare challenge or debate...
Coming into my dms telling me I need to pick XX or XY; saying that it’s a figment of my imagination; saying that I’m a freak and weird, isn’t a challenge or a debate. It’s transphobia clear as day. And why are peoples identities up for debate anyway? THEY AREN’T. Just let trans people, gay people, LGBT people exist in peace. Our identities aren’t political and they aren’t up for debate.
I’m not disagreeing with you about your rights and that dm’ing you abuse is wrong.
I was asking why the -phobic was being applied to terms like this. A phobia is a fear. The left should have applied a different term. That was my point. "Phobia means fear or aversion, usually irrational. Its been used as a suffix to create words in a social justice /prejudicial context for ages. Like xenophobia. | |||
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"And why is the word “phobia” being tacked into the end of everything to label those who don’t agree as “bad”. There’s a big difference between being afraid of something and exhibiting hatred or discrimination and bigotry. This x a million.. I dislike phobic tagged onto anyone who dare challenge or debate...
Coming into my dms telling me I need to pick XX or XY; saying that it’s a figment of my imagination; saying that I’m a freak and weird, isn’t a challenge or a debate. It’s transphobia clear as day. And why are peoples identities up for debate anyway? THEY AREN’T. Just let trans people, gay people, LGBT people exist in peace. Our identities aren’t political and they aren’t up for debate.
I’m not disagreeing with you about your rights and that dm’ing you abuse is wrong.
I was asking why the -phobic was being applied to terms like this. A phobia is a fear. The left should have applied a different term. That was my point.
Phobia means fear or aversion, usually irrational. Its been used as a suffix to create words in a social justice /prejudicial context for ages. Like xenophobia. "I get that. I was asking what it was hijacked. Not what it meant. I’m aware there are a few phobias that have twisted the original application of the form. | |||
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"And why is the word “phobia” being tacked into the end of everything to label those who don’t agree as “bad”. There’s a big difference between being afraid of something and exhibiting hatred or discrimination and bigotry. This x a million.. I dislike phobic tagged onto anyone who dare challenge or debate...
Coming into my dms telling me I need to pick XX or XY; saying that it’s a figment of my imagination; saying that I’m a freak and weird, isn’t a challenge or a debate. It’s transphobia clear as day. And why are peoples identities up for debate anyway? THEY AREN’T. Just let trans people, gay people, LGBT people exist in peace. Our identities aren’t political and they aren’t up for debate.
I’m not disagreeing with you about your rights and that dm’ing you abuse is wrong.
I was asking why the -phobic was being applied to terms like this. A phobia is a fear. The left should have applied a different term. That was my point.
Phobia means fear or aversion, usually irrational. Its been used as a suffix to create words in a social justice /prejudicial context for ages. Like xenophobia.
I get that. I was asking what it was hijacked. Not what it meant. I’m aware there are a few phobias that have twisted the original application of the form. "It was never hijacked; it’s a word that’s existed for centuries. | |||
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"And why is the word “phobia” being tacked into the end of everything to label those who don’t agree as “bad”. There’s a big difference between being afraid of something and exhibiting hatred or discrimination and bigotry. This x a million.. I dislike phobic tagged onto anyone who dare challenge or debate...
Coming into my dms telling me I need to pick XX or XY; saying that it’s a figment of my imagination; saying that I’m a freak and weird, isn’t a challenge or a debate. It’s transphobia clear as day. And why are peoples identities up for debate anyway? THEY AREN’T. Just let trans people, gay people, LGBT people exist in peace. Our identities aren’t political and they aren’t up for debate.
I’m not disagreeing with you about your rights and that dm’ing you abuse is wrong.
I was asking why the -phobic was being applied to terms like this. A phobia is a fear. The left should have applied a different term. That was my point.
Phobia means fear or aversion, usually irrational. Its been used as a suffix to create words in a social justice /prejudicial context for ages. Like xenophobia.
I get that. I was asking what it was hijacked. Not what it meant. I’m aware there are a few phobias that have twisted the original application of the form.
It was never hijacked; it’s a word that’s existed for centuries."I stand corrected, the original creator of the word said this: The word homophobia first appeared in print in an article written for the May 23, 1969, edition of the American pornographic magazine Screw, in which the word was used to refer to heterosexual men's fear that others might think they are gay. That being said; language is constantly changing. Linguistics change and that’s okay. It should also be noted that homophobia as a word only came into use in the 60s because gay people were only just then actually being seen as human and were able to openly say that they were gay (albeit, with the reprocussions, aka homophobia) | |||
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"I’m not disagreeing with you about your rights and that dm’ing you abuse is wrong. I was asking why the -phobic was being applied to terms like this. A phobia is a fear. The left should have applied a different term. That was my point. Phobia means fear or aversion, usually irrational. Its been used as a suffix to create words in a social justice /prejudicial context for ages. Like xenophobia. I get that. I was asking what it was hijacked. Not what it meant. I’m aware there are a few phobias that have twisted the original application of the form. " All language evolves, but homophobia was coined by a psychologist in the 60s. It's not an invention of "the left". It's rooted in the study of homophobia as a psychological problem ("phobia" meaning fear but also revulsion and aversion, which is how it's used medically). | |||
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"Is this pointless thread still going???? " You tell me…I literally said I’m ignoring it now | |||
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"Is this pointless thread still going???? You tell me…I literally said I’m ignoring it now " Lol but 3 comments in 20 minutes only serve to push it to the top of the form list keeping it live! as Mary Shelley would say.. | |||
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"Is this pointless thread still going???? You tell me…I literally said I’m ignoring it now " That's the thing about the forum threads take on a life of their own,once out there you have no control over the direction it takes. If you are easily offended by stuff or of a nervous disposition then the forum's are definitely not for you. | |||
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