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"Yay, something else men can be shit for.  "#notallmen ... just those in frocks! | |||
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"The whole notion of appropriation is infantile. Be it gender or culture or anything else. No group should be able to claim complete ownership of a set of traits." Even if those traits are representative of oppression suffered by said protected characteristics? | |||
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"Yay, something else men can be shit for.
#notallmen ... just those in frocks! "Whoa… It’s appropriation for men to wear frocks or skirts? | |||
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"Some cis women objectify their own personal gender for thrills and gratification. " An interesting point | |||
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"The whole notion of appropriation is infantile. Be it gender or culture or anything else. No group should be able to claim complete ownership of a set of traits. Even if those traits are representative of oppression suffered by said protected characteristics?" Yes, personally I'm not responsible and don't care. Take your attention seeking moaning arse elsewhere | |||
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"Yay, something else men can be shit for.
#notallmen ... just those in frocks!
Whoa…
It’s appropriation for men to wear frocks or skirts?
"I don't know. Hence the discussion  | |||
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"Transvestites and crossdressers (as opposed to TS women). Are merely appropriating the female gender for thrills and gratification. Picking and choosing aspects of femininity is objectifying the female gender, and misogynistic Discuss (Disclaimer ... this is an intellectual discussion. The above statement does not necessarily reflect the views of the OP)" People should be free to express their gender however they wish too with out prejudice. However *dons tin hat* when I see certain traits and certain attributes being displayed I wonder if it's a reflection of how women are viewed in society by that individual? Or is it their interpretation of a woman? | |||
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"Also think Justin Bieber is probably relevant to this discussion? " | |||
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"Also think Justin Bieber is probably relevant to this discussion? " And Harry Styles | |||
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"Yay, something else men can be shit for.
#notallmen ... just those in frocks!
Whoa…
It’s appropriation for men to wear frocks or skirts?
I don't know.
Hence the discussion "I’m pretty sure it’s not. | |||
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"Transvestites and crossdressers (as opposed to TS women). Are merely appropriating the female gender for thrills and gratification. Picking and choosing aspects of femininity is objectifying the female gender, and misogynistic Discuss (Disclaimer ... this is an intellectual discussion. The above statement does not necessarily reflect the views of the OP) People should be free to express their gender however they wish too with out prejudice. However *dons tin hat* when I see certain traits and certain attributes being displayed I wonder if it's a reflection of how women are viewed in society by that individual? Or is it their interpretation of a woman? " That's interesting, I was thinking of a different group. The Ru Paul drag people approach it differently. And are viewed very differently. | |||
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"Personally I have no issues with anyone dressing as women for any kind of positive reason. I have at times been uncomfortable however when it comes to men who want to be forced to dress as women because it's humiliating or degrading to them. If that feeling just comes from their own discomfort due to being comfortable and feeling attractive as a man and having themselves be made to appear feminine is uncomfortable then that's fine but I've seen it a few times when it comes from the idea that being a woman and being feminine are degrading in general and I'm not comfortable with that. " And that example of wearing it as a costume for degradation would be misogynistic I feel | |||
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"Transvestites and crossdressers (as opposed to TS women). Are merely appropriating the female gender for thrills and gratification. Picking and choosing aspects of femininity is objectifying the female gender, and misogynistic Discuss (Disclaimer ... this is an intellectual discussion. The above statement does not necessarily reflect the views of the OP)" It just feels a bit odd in my opinion, and I think it adds confusion to people that can’t seem to differentiate cross-dressism (is this even a word) and people who experience gender dysphoria and that are born trans. Mostly because there’s no actual research from people and they just talk according to what they heard or already based on their own (ignorant) opinion. But I don’t wanna start a fight with anybody, on such a beautiful day x | |||
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"A SDB quote I like: ‘All agree in recognising the fact that females exist in the human species; today as always they make up about one half of humanity. And yet we are told that femininity is in danger; we are exhorted to be women, remain women, become women. It would appear, then, that every female human being is not necessarily a woman; to be so considered she must share in that mysterious and threatened reality known as femininity. Is this attribute something secreted by the ovaries? Or is it a Platonic essence, a product of the philosophic imagination?‘" All agree in recognising the fact that males exist in the human species; today as always they make up about one half of humanity. And yet we are told that masculinity is in danger; we are exhorted to be men, remain men, become men. It would appear, then, that every male human being is not necessarily a man; to be so considered he must share in that mysterious and threatened reality known as masculinity. Is this attribute something secreted by the testes? Or is it a Platonic essence, a product of the philosophic imagination? Cuts both ways… We get told to man up, take it like a man, be a man | |||
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"This is a good question OP. I think people should do what pleases them. But I kinda have a question to those who don't identify as women, why so hyper female? Is that how you think women should dress? It's rare to find someone who dresses like the average female on the street. " Never see a CD wearing leggings & uggs! This is probably why they don’t blend in too well | |||
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"Some cis women objectify their own personal gender for thrills and gratification. Some cross dressers and transvestites may do so for nefarious reasons. Some like the feel of the clothes fabric against their skin. Some like how it makes them feel. Some enjoy the fantasy role play of lesbian sex. " Cis??? You mean women, CIS means nothing as they are women, simple XX chromosomes. No need to fall for the silly game of giving everyone a new identity. | |||
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"However *dons tin hat* when I see certain traits and certain attributes being displayed I wonder if it's a reflection of how women are viewed in society by that individual? Or is it their interpretation of a woman? " Yes. I think people regularly do this to Black women. In dress. Actions. Words. | |||
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"Some cis women objectify their own personal gender for thrills and gratification. Some cross dressers and transvestites may do so for nefarious reasons. Some like the feel of the clothes fabric against their skin. Some like how it makes them feel. Some enjoy the fantasy role play of lesbian sex. Cis??? You mean women, CIS means nothing as they are women, simple XX chromosomes. No need to fall for the silly game of giving everyone a new identity." God, only took you a 3 letter word to get you triggered 
Hilarious | |||
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"This is a good question OP. I think people should do what pleases them. But I kinda have a question to those who don't identify as women, why so hyper female? Is that how you think women should dress? It's rare to find someone who dresses like the average female on the street. Never see a CD wearing leggings & uggs! This is probably why they don’t blend in too well "It wasn't a question about blending in on my behalf anyways. It was whether the way they decide to dress reflects on how they think women should dress, I suppose. | |||
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" All agree in recognising the fact that males exist in the human species; today as always they make up about one half of humanity. And yet we are told that masculinity is in danger; we are exhorted to be men, remain men, become men. It would appear, then, that every male human being is not necessarily a man; to be so considered he must share in that mysterious and threatened reality known as masculinity. Is this attribute something secreted by the testes? Or is it a Platonic essence, a product of the philosophic imagination? Cuts both ways… We get told to man up, take it like a man, be a man " This isn’t meant in a rude way but what was the point of this? | |||
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". But I don’t wanna start a fight with anybody, on such a beautiful day x "I wholly agree. Which is why I hope (yes I do realise this is Fab) that this will be a non aggressive, adult conversation where views and differences will be respected. | |||
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"Does this work both ways? A woman in a Rab C Nesbitt vest and a short back and sides?" Well I think with appropriation relationships between dominant and dominated groups is relevant? Certainly with cultural appropriation it is. But I also think it’s relevant to consider that say ‘Tom boys’. My opinion is that it’s not appropriating or even appreciating, it’s more just performing gender however they wish. Men or women do not own qualities or fashion, I would argue, because what even are men and women (as genders)? and so all is free to to be worn genuinely (not in degrading ways as Lacey said) by anyone. | |||
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"Some cis women objectify their own personal gender for thrills and gratification. Some cross dressers and transvestites may do so for nefarious reasons. Some like the feel of the clothes fabric against their skin. Some like how it makes them feel. Some enjoy the fantasy role play of lesbian sex. Cis??? You mean women, CIS means nothing as they are women, simple XX chromosomes. No need to fall for the silly game of giving everyone a new identity." It's just an adjective. Like short, tall, brunette, athletic, hungry, angry, Canadian, rich, poor, young, old, pistachio eating... Or should we just do away with them all? | |||
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"Some cis women objectify their own personal gender for thrills and gratification. Some cross dressers and transvestites may do so for nefarious reasons. Some like the feel of the clothes fabric against their skin. Some like how it makes them feel. Some enjoy the fantasy role play of lesbian sex. Cis??? You mean women, CIS means nothing as they are women, simple XX chromosomes. No need to fall for the silly game of giving everyone a new identity." In this discussion I needed to differentiate. I'm sorry you feel it's silly. | |||
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" All agree in recognising the fact that males exist in the human species; today as always they make up about one half of humanity. And yet we are told that masculinity is in danger; we are exhorted to be men, remain men, become men. It would appear, then, that every male human being is not necessarily a man; to be so considered he must share in that mysterious and threatened reality known as masculinity. Is this attribute something secreted by the testes? Or is it a Platonic essence, a product of the philosophic imagination? Cuts both ways… We get told to man up, take it like a man, be a man This isn’t meant in a rude way but what was the point of this? " Male/Female Man/Woman trans whatever we are we are Human. The SDB lines you quoted push the idea that it is only half of humanity that has an issue of identity. | |||
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"This is a good question OP. I think people should do what pleases them. But I kinda have a question to those who don't identify as women, why so hyper female? Is that how you think women should dress? It's rare to find someone who dresses like the average female on the street. Never see a CD wearing leggings & uggs! This is probably why they don’t blend in too well
It wasn't a question about blending in on my behalf anyways. It was whether the way they decide to dress reflects on how they think women should dress, I suppose. "I have to admit that I do wonder this too on why some would wear things like.. PVC, or leather or fish nets all the time. It could be the version of what a woman should wear? But don’t we all kind of do that tho, let me explain, we look at Instagram, or tv or whatever. Don’t we all sort of wear things that we think are trendy and that other women wear? We call it fashion, but it’s what brands are telling us what women should wear… so it’s the designers who dictate what a woman should look like for the next year or so. Not the same, but u can see some parallels. | |||
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"Some cis women objectify their own personal gender for thrills and gratification. Some cross dressers and transvestites may do so for nefarious reasons. Some like the feel of the clothes fabric against their skin. Some like how it makes them feel. Some enjoy the fantasy role play of lesbian sex. Cis??? You mean women, CIS means nothing as they are women, simple XX chromosomes. No need to fall for the silly game of giving everyone a new identity. In this discussion I needed to differentiate. I'm sorry you feel it's silly. " And this is the perfect example! I barely use the word cis, there’s no need. But sometimes there needs to be made a differentiation | |||
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" All agree in recognising the fact that males exist in the human species; today as always they make up about one half of humanity. And yet we are told that masculinity is in danger; we are exhorted to be men, remain men, become men. It would appear, then, that every male human being is not necessarily a man; to be so considered he must share in that mysterious and threatened reality known as masculinity. Is this attribute something secreted by the testes? Or is it a Platonic essence, a product of the philosophic imagination? Cuts both ways… We get told to man up, take it like a man, be a man This isn’t meant in a rude way but what was the point of this? Male/Female Man/Woman trans whatever we are we are Human. The SDB lines you quoted push the idea that it is only half of humanity that has an issue of identity. " Oh I hear that. I only meant it in the sense of what is femininity? And in that sense, what claim to it do women have over other genders? Etc. | |||
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"Does this work both ways? A woman in a Rab C Nesbitt vest and a short back and sides? Well I think with appropriation relationships between dominant and dominated groups is relevant? Certainly with cultural appropriation it is. But I also think it’s relevant to consider that say ‘Tom boys’. My opinion is that it’s not appropriating or even appreciating, it’s more just performing gender however they wish. Men or women do not own qualities or fashion, I would argue, because what even are men and women (as genders)? and so all is free to to be worn genuinely (not in degrading ways as Lacey said) by anyone. " Cultural appropriation is a weird one for me. I see imitation as the sincerest form of flattery. At the same time how can a race or culture own a hairstyle or a style of clothes. Unless it’s specific religious clothing I think everyone should be able to wear what they want. | |||
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"Personally I have no issues with anyone dressing as women for any kind of positive reason. I have at times been uncomfortable however when it comes to men who want to be forced to dress as women because it's humiliating or degrading to them. If that feeling just comes from their own discomfort due to being comfortable and feeling attractive as a man and having themselves be made to appear feminine is uncomfortable then that's fine but I've seen it a few times when it comes from the idea that being a woman and being feminine are degrading in general and I'm not comfortable with that. " I missed this. It's a good point. Do they (some) feel that women are powerful and therefore dressing as a woman makes them feel degraded? As in, dressing as a man makes them a lesser being? | |||
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"Does this work both ways? A woman in a Rab C Nesbitt vest and a short back and sides? Well I think with appropriation relationships between dominant and dominated groups is relevant? Certainly with cultural appropriation it is. But I also think it’s relevant to consider that say ‘Tom boys’. My opinion is that it’s not appropriating or even appreciating, it’s more just performing gender however they wish. Men or women do not own qualities or fashion, I would argue, because what even are men and women (as genders)? and so all is free to to be worn genuinely (not in degrading ways as Lacey said) by anyone. Cultural appropriation is a weird one for me. I see imitation as the sincerest form of flattery. At the same time how can a race or culture own a hairstyle or a style of clothes. Unless it’s specific religious clothing I think everyone should be able to wear what they want. " These are genuine questions rather than my views. If someone wants to educate me on it then I’m all ears. | |||
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"This is a good question OP. I think people should do what pleases them. But I kinda have a question to those who don't identify as women, why so hyper female? Is that how you think women should dress? It's rare to find someone who dresses like the average female on the street. Never see a CD wearing leggings & uggs! This is probably why they don’t blend in too well
It wasn't a question about blending in on my behalf anyways. It was whether the way they decide to dress reflects on how they think women should dress, I suppose.
I have to admit that I do wonder this too on why some would wear things like..
PVC, or leather or fish nets all the time.
It could be the version of what a woman should wear?
But don’t we all kind of do that tho, let me explain, we look at Instagram, or tv or whatever. Don’t we all sort of wear things that we think are trendy and that other women wear?
We call it fashion, but it’s what brands are telling us what women should wear… so it’s the designers who dictate what a woman should look like for the next year or so.
Not the same, but u can see some parallels.
"That makes sense Kylie definitely, thank you. I find that many dress in a highly sexualised way. And I wonder then is it because they see women as sexualised beings. Or is it because that part of them is tapped into their sexual being that dressing as a sexualised woman is how it manifests? Or is because the clothing industry pushes that image of what a cross dresser should look like? | |||
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"Does this work both ways? A woman in a Rab C Nesbitt vest and a short back and sides? Well I think with appropriation relationships between dominant and dominated groups is relevant? Certainly with cultural appropriation it is. But I also think it’s relevant to consider that say ‘Tom boys’. My opinion is that it’s not appropriating or even appreciating, it’s more just performing gender however they wish. Men or women do not own qualities or fashion, I would argue, because what even are men and women (as genders)? and so all is free to to be worn genuinely (not in degrading ways as Lacey said) by anyone. Cultural appropriation is a weird one for me. I see imitation as the sincerest form of flattery. At the same time how can a race or culture own a hairstyle or a style of clothes. Unless it’s specific religious clothing I think everyone should be able to wear what they want. " I agree with the ownership thing. I think it’s more about considering how it’s being done I guess. I think it is important to not wear cultures as costumes though or for fashion without considering what those things come from. But I’m not well read enough on it at all to even have a solid opposing argument to you | |||
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"Anyway I’m out of my depth here so checking out. Thanks OP for the thread. I’ll come back to it to do some learning. "I’m doing the same. | |||
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"This is a good question OP. I think people should do what pleases them. But I kinda have a question to those who don't identify as women, why so hyper female? Is that how you think women should dress? It's rare to find someone who dresses like the average female on the street. Never see a CD wearing leggings & uggs! This is probably why they don’t blend in too well
It wasn't a question about blending in on my behalf anyways. It was whether the way they decide to dress reflects on how they think women should dress, I suppose.
I have to admit that I do wonder this too on why some would wear things like..
PVC, or leather or fish nets all the time.
It could be the version of what a woman should wear?
But don’t we all kind of do that tho, let me explain, we look at Instagram, or tv or whatever. Don’t we all sort of wear things that we think are trendy and that other women wear?
We call it fashion, but it’s what brands are telling us what women should wear… so it’s the designers who dictate what a woman should look like for the next year or so.
Not the same, but u can see some parallels.
That makes sense Kylie definitely, thank you.
I find that many dress in a highly sexualised way. And I wonder then is it because they see women as sexualised beings. Or is it because that part of them is tapped into their sexual being that dressing as a sexualised woman is how it manifests? Or is because the clothing industry pushes that image of what a cross dresser should look like?
"Oh for sure, but maybe, and they have to correct me if I’m wrong. Is that they experience the dressing up (not all so , please don’t jump on me) as a sexual experience. And as a turn on, so I think the choice of clothes is very sexual because of that While what is women wear, we obviously tend to A) have to feel comfortable outside and wear it for intent and purposes while staying true to our fashion sense. So you take out the sexual side of it. B) even if we decide to wear something sexy for someone else, it’s potentially more conservative?! Also there’s time and a place! Obviously women do wear hyper fem clothes (look around on fab) but it stays in the bedroom or when there’s a specific sexy event. I don’t know … Going back to designers, isn’t it crazy that it’s the designers like Gianni Versace or Giorgio Armani or Valentino Garavani (to name a few, I’d say majority of big Designers are men…) who told us women what is considered sexy or beautiful for a woman to wear? X  | |||
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"Transvestites and crossdressers (as opposed to TS women). Are merely appropriating the female gender for thrills and gratification. Picking and choosing aspects of femininity is objectifying the female gender, and misogynistic Discuss (Disclaimer ... this is an intellectual discussion. The above statement does not necessarily reflect the views of the OP)" Here goes.... Yes some do Yes some do think that My literal brain went kaboom when I read the thread so this is all I have to say about it Jennie x | |||
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"This is a good question OP. I think people should do what pleases them. But I kinda have a question to those who don't identify as women, why so hyper female? Is that how you think women should dress? It's rare to find someone who dresses like the average female on the street. Never see a CD wearing leggings & uggs! This is probably why they don’t blend in too well
It wasn't a question about blending in on my behalf anyways. It was whether the way they decide to dress reflects on how they think women should dress, I suppose.
I have to admit that I do wonder this too on why some would wear things like..
PVC, or leather or fish nets all the time.
It could be the version of what a woman should wear?
But don’t we all kind of do that tho, let me explain, we look at Instagram, or tv or whatever. Don’t we all sort of wear things that we think are trendy and that other women wear?
We call it fashion, but it’s what brands are telling us what women should wear… so it’s the designers who dictate what a woman should look like for the next year or so.
Not the same, but u can see some parallels.
That makes sense Kylie definitely, thank you.
I find that many dress in a highly sexualised way. And I wonder then is it because they see women as sexualised beings. Or is it because that part of them is tapped into their sexual being that dressing as a sexualised woman is how it manifests? Or is because the clothing industry pushes that image of what a cross dresser should look like?
Oh for sure, but maybe, and they have to correct me if I’m wrong. Is that they experience the dressing up (not all so , please don’t jump on me) as a sexual experience.
And as a turn on, so I think the choice of clothes is very sexual because of that
While what is women wear, we obviously tend to
A) have to feel comfortable outside and wear it for intent and purposes while staying true to our fashion sense. So you take out the sexual side of it.
B) even if we decide to wear something sexy for someone else, it’s potentially more conservative?!
Also there’s time and a place! Obviously women do wear hyper fem clothes (look around on fab) but it stays in the bedroom or when there’s a specific sexy event.
I don’t know …
Going back to designers, isn’t it crazy that it’s the designers like Gianni Versace or Giorgio Armani or Valentino Garavani (to name a few, I’d say majority of big
Designers are men…) who told us women what is considered sexy or beautiful
for a woman to wear? X "That's really true about male designers. You've got my brain whirring now. I would say I definitely dress differently when I'm going out on a date with M to going out for a night out with my mates. I guess nobody dresses without some outside influence. | |||
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"Does this work both ways? A woman in a Rab C Nesbitt vest and a short back and sides? Well I think with appropriation relationships between dominant and dominated groups is relevant? Certainly with cultural appropriation it is. But I also think it’s relevant to consider that say ‘Tom boys’. " Leave me out of this.. And what about the Toliet question. That has never been sorted.... | |||
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"Not sure what to think about this, but it seems to spark division - look what’s happening in USA with some of the state laws being (or trying to be) passed. "America is a bad example though as the country is very religious puritan in huge swathes . they are a weird country in general . | |||
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"Does this work both ways? A woman in a Rab C Nesbitt vest and a short back and sides? Well I think with appropriation relationships between dominant and dominated groups is relevant? Certainly with cultural appropriation it is. But I also think it’s relevant to consider that say ‘Tom boys’. Leave me out of this.. And what about the Toliet question. That has never been sorted...." I have a feeling that a cross dresser or a TV (so somebody that lives as a man 100% of the time) would know that womens toilets are not to be used. Where are we getting at, Tom? | |||
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"Does this work both ways? A woman in a Rab C Nesbitt vest and a short back and sides? Well I think with appropriation relationships between dominant and dominated groups is relevant? Certainly with cultural appropriation it is. But I also think it’s relevant to consider that say ‘Tom boys’. Leave me out of this.. And what about the Toliet question. That has never been sorted.... I have a feeling that a cross dresser or a TV (so somebody that lives as a man 100% of the time) would know that womens toilets are not to be used. Where are we getting at, Tom?" If you dress as a woman every evening surely you are not living as a man 100% of the time | |||
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Mr | |||
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"Appropriation implies ownership in the first place. This doesnt exist therefore the whole hypothesis of the OP is null and void
Mr"Morning smarty pants | |||
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" Discuss (Disclaimer ... this is an intellectual discussion. The above statement does not necessarily reflect the views of the OP)" Intellectual ? So singing "Get yer tits out for the boys, Get yer tiiiiiittttttts out for the boyyyyýysssssss" May exclude me from the discussion.  | |||
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"The whole notion of appropriation is infantile. Be it gender or culture or anything else. No group should be able to claim complete ownership of a set of traits. Even if those traits are representative of oppression suffered by said protected characteristics?" what's an example of this ? | |||
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"The whole notion of appropriation is infantile. Be it gender or culture or anything else. No group should be able to claim complete ownership of a set of traits. Even if those traits are representative of oppression suffered by said protected characteristics?what's an example of this ? " Lots of cultural examples of this. | |||
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"The whole notion of appropriation is infantile. Be it gender or culture or anything else. No group should be able to claim complete ownership of a set of traits. Even if those traits are representative of oppression suffered by said protected characteristics?what's an example of this ? Lots of cultural examples of this. " help me out here. Particularly the oppressed bit. Im not trolling, I just don't know what an example looks like here. | |||
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"The whole notion of appropriation is infantile. Be it gender or culture or anything else. No group should be able to claim complete ownership of a set of traits. Even if those traits are representative of oppression suffered by said protected characteristics?what's an example of this ? Lots of cultural examples of this. help me out here. Particularly the oppressed bit. Im not trolling, I just don't know what an example looks like here. " Off the top of my head (pardon the pun) I can think of braid/ cornrow hairstyles and dreads amongst black communities. However clothing wise I can’t think of any. Off the top of my head. | |||
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"The whole notion of appropriation is infantile. Be it gender or culture or anything else. No group should be able to claim complete ownership of a set of traits. Even if those traits are representative of oppression suffered by said protected characteristics?what's an example of this ? Lots of cultural examples of this. help me out here. Particularly the oppressed bit. Im not trolling, I just don't know what an example looks like here. Off the top of my head (pardon the pun) I can think of braid/ cornrow hairstyles and dreads amongst black communities. However clothing wise I can’t think of any. Off the top of my head. " Some examples off the top of my head I've seen in the news. Native American headdresses used in festivals. The use of Indian clothing and bindis which was popular at one point. The Kardashians are often accused of it with their fashion choices. | |||
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"The whole notion of appropriation is infantile. Be it gender or culture or anything else. No group should be able to claim complete ownership of a set of traits. Even if those traits are representative of oppression suffered by said protected characteristics?what's an example of this ? Lots of cultural examples of this. help me out here. Particularly the oppressed bit. Im not trolling, I just don't know what an example looks like here. Off the top of my head (pardon the pun) I can think of braid/ cornrow hairstyles and dreads amongst black communities. However clothing wise I can’t think of any. Off the top of my head. Some examples off the top of my head I've seen in the news. Native American headdresses used in festivals. The use of Indian clothing and bindis which was popular at one point. The Kardashians are often accused of it with their fashion choices. " how is this representative of oppression suffered? That's the bit I'm struggling on. | |||
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"Does this work both ways? A woman in a Rab C Nesbitt vest and a short back and sides? Well I think with appropriation relationships between dominant and dominated groups is relevant? Certainly with cultural appropriation it is. But I also think it’s relevant to consider that say ‘Tom boys’. Leave me out of this.. And what about the Toliet question. That has never been sorted.... I have a feeling that a cross dresser or a TV (so somebody that lives as a man 100% of the time) would know that womens toilets are not to be used. Where are we getting at, Tom? If you dress as a woman every evening surely you are not living as a man 100% of the time" But it’s someone who is living their lives as a man… it isn’t about dressing. Clothes are merely just things we put on our backs to express our style. Again, that person who dresses up every night is definitely living his life as a man 100% of the time… | |||
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"The whole notion of appropriation is infantile. Be it gender or culture or anything else. No group should be able to claim complete ownership of a set of traits. Even if those traits are representative of oppression suffered by said protected characteristics?what's an example of this ? Lots of cultural examples of this. help me out here. Particularly the oppressed bit. Im not trolling, I just don't know what an example looks like here. Off the top of my head (pardon the pun) I can think of braid/ cornrow hairstyles and dreads amongst black communities. However clothing wise I can’t think of any. Off the top of my head. Some examples off the top of my head I've seen in the news. Native American headdresses used in festivals. The use of Indian clothing and bindis which was popular at one point. The Kardashians are often accused of it with their fashion choices. how is this representative of oppression suffered? That's the bit I'm struggling on. " The hairstyles I mentioned were styles Black people used for resistance during sl*very and I think dreads has links to transportation during the period also.  | |||
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"The whole notion of appropriation is infantile. Be it gender or culture or anything else. No group should be able to claim complete ownership of a set of traits. Even if those traits are representative of oppression suffered by said protected characteristics?what's an example of this ? Lots of cultural examples of this. help me out here. Particularly the oppressed bit. Im not trolling, I just don't know what an example looks like here. Off the top of my head (pardon the pun) I can think of braid/ cornrow hairstyles and dreads amongst black communities. However clothing wise I can’t think of any. Off the top of my head. Some examples off the top of my head I've seen in the news. Native American headdresses used in festivals. The use of Indian clothing and bindis which was popular at one point. The Kardashians are often accused of it with their fashion choices. how is this representative of oppression suffered? That's the bit I'm struggling on. The hairstyles I mentioned were styles Black people used for resistance during sl*very and I think dreads has links to transportation during the period also. "ah right. Is this common knowledge, and I'm just ignorant?  | |||
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"The whole notion of appropriation is infantile. Be it gender or culture or anything else. No group should be able to claim complete ownership of a set of traits. Even if those traits are representative of oppression suffered by said protected characteristics?what's an example of this ? Lots of cultural examples of this. help me out here. Particularly the oppressed bit. Im not trolling, I just don't know what an example looks like here. Off the top of my head (pardon the pun) I can think of braid/ cornrow hairstyles and dreads amongst black communities. However clothing wise I can’t think of any. Off the top of my head. Some examples off the top of my head I've seen in the news. Native American headdresses used in festivals. The use of Indian clothing and bindis which was popular at one point. The Kardashians are often accused of it with their fashion choices. how is this representative of oppression suffered? That's the bit I'm struggling on. The hairstyles I mentioned were styles Black people used for resistance during sl*very and I think dreads has links to transportation during the period also. "Those hairstyles were used and are still used to this day to signify tribal marital status, wealth, religion etc Not just for the resistance. | |||
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" Cis??? You mean women, CIS means nothing as they are women, simple XX chromosomes. No need to fall for the silly game of giving everyone a new identity." Cis is short for cisgendered and is a term used to describe both men and women who identify as the gender they were born with. Just like transgender is used to describe both men and women who have transitioned from the gender they were born as. Stop being offended by terminology used to distinguish one group from another. It’s a fundamental function of language. Get over it. | |||
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"The whole notion of appropriation is infantile. Be it gender or culture or anything else. No group should be able to claim complete ownership of a set of traits. Even if those traits are representative of oppression suffered by said protected characteristics?what's an example of this ? Lots of cultural examples of this. help me out here. Particularly the oppressed bit. Im not trolling, I just don't know what an example looks like here. Off the top of my head (pardon the pun) I can think of braid/ cornrow hairstyles and dreads amongst black communities. However clothing wise I can’t think of any. Off the top of my head. Some examples off the top of my head I've seen in the news. Native American headdresses used in festivals. The use of Indian clothing and bindis which was popular at one point. The Kardashians are often accused of it with their fashion choices. how is this representative of oppression suffered? That's the bit I'm struggling on. " Imagine someone killed your mum. Killing her was legal. Now imagine that killing your mum became illegal but the person/people who killed her are walking around freely, but to add insult to injury, their kids are walking around wearing your mums favourite hat. This is a very basic analogy, leaving out several generations of in between events. But the principle is, loosely, the same. | |||
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 lovely image yes 
I live alone so can dress as I like
By the way they’re clothes, the above description of myself should convince you I’m a man as well.
Can we finally get past this image that every Transvestite or Crossdresser does it for sexual reasons ?
I haven’t felt sexually turned on wearing this nightie but it feels nice whilst making my breakfast. Sorry not had a wank in days as that sort of thing stopped years ago. I wear clothes I find visually appealing and once in them feel comfortable wearing. No fishnets or PVC in my collection.
Some TV or CD wear woman's clothes purely for sexual reasons. A lot don’t.
We are not Transexuals we just share the ‘Trans’ bit. We don’t suffer the same issues on a daily basis as they do, we occasionally come across those same issues. Mainly because this is a part time thing I do.
However I do stand in solidarity with the Trans community even though some of them (not all) treat us as tourists or just playing dress up. But their fight is still a fight that I believe will make my life easier and potentially future generations as well. So will always stand together with their cause.
I also stand in solidarity with HPW (hairy panty wearers) the lowest rung of the ladder. See profiles looking for TV/ TS they’ll often state No HPW.
I believe that men, women or tv/ts/hpw can wear whatever they bloody well like with no judgment from others.
A very brave girl called Sarah Lancashire was once beaten to death for dressing as a goth and defending her boyfriend. Her bravery and defiance in the face of ignorance and hatred inspired me as a younger man. I now dress as I choose and will defend that right in a country that still respects that individuals can be who they want to be.
I’m a man, proud to be one, I’m also a Transvestite proud to be one of those as well. Because in the past I’ve been told by a family member I was a pervert and a freak for my compulsion to wear clothes that women tend to wear.
It’s not a lifestyle choice why I do what I do. It’s in me I cannot take a pill and get rid of it (sometimes I wish I could) sorry about that (not).
Well I’ve rambled on a bit about my dressing, thanks for reading it and enjoy the nice weather | |||
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I was going to post something, pondering on what femininity is/supposed to be and why things like having short hair (as a woman) seem to mean you can't be feminine. I was inspired by a thread discussion from yesterday.
Never mind
PS: I can never be feminine. Short hair, fat, massive muscular shoulders, wheelchair. Absolutely fucked | |||
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"Currently wearing a nightie, with a hairy chest and a bit of a beard. Scratched my balls earlier as well. lovely image yes
I live alone so can dress as I like
By the way they’re clothes, the above description of myself should convince you I’m a man as well.
Can we finally get past this image that every Transvestite or Crossdresser does it for sexual reasons ?
I haven’t felt sexually turned on wearing this nightie but it feels nice whilst making my breakfast. Sorry not had a wank in days as that sort of thing stopped years ago. I wear clothes I find visually appealing and once in them feel comfortable wearing. No fishnets or PVC in my collection.
Some TV or CD wear woman's clothes purely for sexual reasons. A lot don’t.
We are not Transexuals we just share the ‘Trans’ bit. We don’t suffer the same issues on a daily basis as they do, we occasionally come across those same issues. Mainly because this is a part time thing I do.
However I do stand in solidarity with the Trans community even though some of them (not all) treat us as tourists or just playing dress up. But their fight is still a fight that I believe will make my life easier and potentially future generations as well. So will always stand together with their cause.
**I also stand in solidarity with HPW (hairy panty wearers) the lowest rung of the ladder. See profiles looking for TV/ TS they’ll often state No HPW.
I believe that men, women or tv/ts/hpw can wear whatever they bloody well like with no judgment from others.
A very brave girl called Sarah Lancashire was once beaten to death for dressing as a goth and defending her boyfriend. Her bravery and defiance in the face of ignorance and hatred inspired me as a younger man. I now dress as I choose and will defend that right in a country that still respects that individuals can be who they want to be.
I’m a man, proud to be one, I’m also a Transvestite proud to be one of those as well. Because in the past I’ve been told by a family member I was a pervert and a freak for my compulsion to wear clothes that women tend to wear.
It’s not a lifestyle choice why I do what I do. It’s in me I cannot take a pill and get rid of it (sometimes I wish I could) sorry about that (not).
Well I’ve rambled on a bit about my dressing, thanks for reading it and enjoy the nice weather "I love this Steph. Especially ** | |||
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"Well, that's my idea for a thread kinda poached, Jennie
I was going to post something, pondering on what femininity is/supposed to be and why things like having short hair (as a woman) seem to mean you can't be feminine. I was inspired by a thread discussion from yesterday.
Never mind
PS: I can never be feminine. Short hair, fat, massive muscular shoulders, wheelchair. Absolutely fucked "Please do it. I love reading perspectives on this. | |||
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"Well, that's my idea for a thread kinda poached, Jennie
I was going to post something, pondering on what femininity is/supposed to be and why things like having short hair (as a woman) seem to mean you can't be feminine. I was inspired by a thread discussion from yesterday.
Never mind
PS: I can never be feminine. Short hair, fat, massive muscular shoulders, wheelchair. Absolutely fucked "Do you feel feminine? (You don't have to answer that.) 'Absolutely fucked' sounds good though!  | |||
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"Well, that's my idea for a thread kinda poached, Jennie
I was going to post something, pondering on what femininity is/supposed to be and why things like having short hair (as a woman) seem to mean you can't be feminine. I was inspired by a thread discussion from yesterday.
Never mind
PS: I can never be feminine. Short hair, fat, massive muscular shoulders, wheelchair. Absolutely fucked
Please do it. I love reading perspectives on this. "Maybe I'll post it later, I'd be doing a grenade thread if I did it now (we're heading out soon) And to Outsider - I'm really not sure if I feel feminine. Probably not, because I've so often been told I'm not (I was regularly told as a child that I was "unladylike"). Absolutely fucked DOES sound good, I agree | |||
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"The whole notion of appropriation is infantile. Be it gender or culture or anything else. No group should be able to claim complete ownership of a set of traits. Even if those traits are representative of oppression suffered by said protected characteristics?"
Emphatically yes. Even then. | |||
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""I'm not a woman, I'm not a trans person, I'm not a transvestite and I do not cross dress...my opinion does not matter on this topic" I feel that anyone that is not part of one of the above groups (and by that I mean, yes, cis men) should not engage in this conversation (and I really don’t know why some of you guys do- but to each their own) On top of that, these debates/discussions should be face to face between people that are intelligent, educated and understanding...having debates on topics as sensitive as this on social media (including the fab forums) will only result in negativity and arguments...but that's just my approach, you guys can carry on "Why should men (cis or otherwise) not contribute? Some very interesting and enlightening points have been contributed to these sorts of threads in the past. If you feel that you have something insightful to say, then go for it | |||
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""I'm not a woman, I'm not a trans person, I'm not a transvestite and I do not cross dress...my opinion does not matter on this topic" I feel that anyone that is not part of one of the above groups (and by that I mean, yes, cis men) should not engage in this conversation (and I really don’t know why some of you guys do- but to each their own) On top of that, these debates/discussions should be face to face between people that are intelligent, educated and understanding...having debates on topics as sensitive as this on social media (including the fab forums) will only result in negativity and arguments...but that's just my approach, you guys can carry on "I think there are topics that cis men should speak to learn and understand and not as experts. I also think there are threads that cis men should be weary of speaking over and for others about experiences that aren’t their own. However in this particular topic I think there’s space for cis men to contribute. Partly because I believe cis men can perform their genders in many ways and challenge rigid, traditional gendered ideas about masculinity and femininity. Cis men can enjoy wearing ‘feminine’ clothes and not be cross dressers or trans and can still be cis het men. | |||
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""I'm not a woman, I'm not a trans person, I'm not a transvestite and I do not cross dress...my opinion does not matter on this topic" I feel that anyone that is not part of one of the above groups (and by that I mean, yes, cis men) should not engage in this conversation (and I really don’t know why some of you guys do- but to each their own) On top of that, these debates/discussions should be face to face between people that are intelligent, educated and understanding...having debates on topics as sensitive as this on social media (including the fab forums) will only result in negativity and arguments...but that's just my approach, you guys can carry on "I am not sure if you are suggesting that contributing on a fab site forum should be only for those who are clever. Who decides who is clever and where is the line drawn. Tom is fortunate that despite not having formal education that he is extremely well read and authoritative on many subjects including science, paleontology, art, literature and horse racing. He has dispelled myths among those supposedly more intelligent. Are we saying that Tom should no longer share his informed opinions. ? | |||
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"I have reached a stage where I feel comfortable in either male or female clothes, I often dress fully but don't wear make up or a wig. It just feels as natural to slip on knickers, hold ups and a skirt, as it does to slip on trousers, socks and underpants." Can I ask out of curiosity, I assume (taking clothes out of it - as a way of expression) you feel at home in your own body? And not talking about like, oh I could be slimmer or taller x | |||
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"The whole notion of appropriation is infantile. Be it gender or culture or anything else. No group should be able to claim complete ownership of a set of traits. Even if those traits are representative of oppression suffered by said protected characteristics?what's an example of this ? Lots of cultural examples of this. help me out here. Particularly the oppressed bit. Im not trolling, I just don't know what an example looks like here. Off the top of my head (pardon the pun) I can think of braid/ cornrow hairstyles and dreads amongst black communities. However clothing wise I can’t think of any. Off the top of my head. Some examples off the top of my head I've seen in the news. Native American headdresses used in festivals. The use of Indian clothing and bindis which was popular at one point. The Kardashians are often accused of it with their fashion choices. how is this representative of oppression suffered? That's the bit I'm struggling on. Imagine someone killed your mum. Killing her was legal. Now imagine that killing your mum became illegal but the person/people who killed her are walking around freely, but to add insult to injury, their kids are walking around wearing your mums favourite hat. This is a very basic analogy, leaving out several generations of in between events. But the principle is, loosely, the same. " was that hat a symbol of oppression and do you still wear that hat despite it once being a symbol of oppression? It's that oppression bit (other than maybe the example given) I'm struggling to picture in real life. Once upon a time it was the men who wore high heels. In the army no less. So fashions are fluid and are "appropriatted" over time. I'm okay with that and so was in the same place as the original quote ^^^. However someone put a spin on it and I don't understand the spin. | |||
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"but I've seen it a few times when it comes from the idea that being a woman and being feminine are degrading in general and I'm not comfortable with that. " When I was doing sex work (and specifically pro domme work) I refused to see 'sissies' for this exact reason... That's where the underlying mysoginistic thinking was, that they 'are not enough of a *man*' so must be turned into a woman. (Interestingly the 'all men are worms women are always better than men' guys didn't get bookings either, they made my feminist self feel equally uncomfortable) | |||
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"The whole notion of appropriation is infantile. Be it gender or culture or anything else. No group should be able to claim complete ownership of a set of traits. Even if those traits are representative of oppression suffered by said protected characteristics?what's an example of this ? Lots of cultural examples of this. help me out here. Particularly the oppressed bit. Im not trolling, I just don't know what an example looks like here. Off the top of my head (pardon the pun) I can think of braid/ cornrow hairstyles and dreads amongst black communities. However clothing wise I can’t think of any. Off the top of my head. Some examples off the top of my head I've seen in the news. Native American headdresses used in festivals. The use of Indian clothing and bindis which was popular at one point. The Kardashians are often accused of it with their fashion choices. how is this representative of oppression suffered? That's the bit I'm struggling on. Imagine someone killed your mum. Killing her was legal. Now imagine that killing your mum became illegal but the person/people who killed her are walking around freely, but to add insult to injury, their kids are walking around wearing your mums favourite hat. This is a very basic analogy, leaving out several generations of in between events. But the principle is, loosely, the same. was that hat a symbol of oppression and do you still wear that hat despite it once being a symbol of oppression? It's that oppression bit (other than maybe the example given) I'm struggling to picture in real life. Once upon a time it was the men who wore high heels. In the army no less. So fashions are fluid and are "appropriatted" over time. I'm okay with that and so was in the same place as the original quote ^^^. However someone put a spin on it and I don't understand the spin. " I kind of take to mean and others can correct me if I'm wrong. That certain people have fought to keep their own cultural identities even though the majority tried to make out it was inferior to theirs. And that now the majority use it as a fashion statement and that makes the minority feel like the majority are using their culture as disposable. | |||
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"The whole notion of appropriation is infantile. Be it gender or culture or anything else. No group should be able to claim complete ownership of a set of traits. Even if those traits are representative of oppression suffered by said protected characteristics?what's an example of this ? Lots of cultural examples of this. help me out here. Particularly the oppressed bit. Im not trolling, I just don't know what an example looks like here. Off the top of my head (pardon the pun) I can think of braid/ cornrow hairstyles and dreads amongst black communities. However clothing wise I can’t think of any. Off the top of my head. Some examples off the top of my head I've seen in the news. Native American headdresses used in festivals. The use of Indian clothing and bindis which was popular at one point. The Kardashians are often accused of it with their fashion choices. how is this representative of oppression suffered? That's the bit I'm struggling on. Imagine someone killed your mum. Killing her was legal. Now imagine that killing your mum became illegal but the person/people who killed her are walking around freely, but to add insult to injury, their kids are walking around wearing your mums favourite hat. This is a very basic analogy, leaving out several generations of in between events. But the principle is, loosely, the same. was that hat a symbol of oppression and do you still wear that hat despite it once being a symbol of oppression? It's that oppression bit (other than maybe the example given) I'm struggling to picture in real life. Once upon a time it was the men who wore high heels. In the army no less. So fashions are fluid and are "appropriatted" over time. I'm okay with that and so was in the same place as the original quote ^^^. However someone put a spin on it and I don't understand the spin. I kind of take to mean and others can correct me if I'm wrong. That certain people have fought to keep their own cultural identities even though the majority tried to make out it was inferior to theirs. And that now the majority use it as a fashion statement and that makes the minority feel like the majority are using their culture as disposable. " aha. That makes sense. Will ponder that angle | |||
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"The whole notion of appropriation is infantile. Be it gender or culture or anything else. No group should be able to claim complete ownership of a set of traits. Even if those traits are representative of oppression suffered by said protected characteristics?what's an example of this ? Lots of cultural examples of this. help me out here. Particularly the oppressed bit. Im not trolling, I just don't know what an example looks like here. Off the top of my head (pardon the pun) I can think of braid/ cornrow hairstyles and dreads amongst black communities. However clothing wise I can’t think of any. Off the top of my head. Some examples off the top of my head I've seen in the news. Native American headdresses used in festivals. The use of Indian clothing and bindis which was popular at one point. The Kardashians are often accused of it with their fashion choices. how is this representative of oppression suffered? That's the bit I'm struggling on. Imagine someone killed your mum. Killing her was legal. Now imagine that killing your mum became illegal but the person/people who killed her are walking around freely, but to add insult to injury, their kids are walking around wearing your mums favourite hat. This is a very basic analogy, leaving out several generations of in between events. But the principle is, loosely, the same. was that hat a symbol of oppression and do you still wear that hat despite it once being a symbol of oppression? It's that oppression bit (other than maybe the example given) I'm struggling to picture in real life. Once upon a time it was the men who wore high heels. In the army no less. So fashions are fluid and are "appropriatted" over time. I'm okay with that and so was in the same place as the original quote ^^^. However someone put a spin on it and I don't understand the spin. I kind of take to mean and others can correct me if I'm wrong. That certain people have fought to keep their own cultural identities even though the majority tried to make out it was inferior to theirs. And that now the majority use it as a fashion statement and that makes the minority feel like the majority are using their culture as disposable. " Thank you for explaining lovely, I am enjoying having my mind stretched | |||
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"The whole notion of appropriation is infantile. Be it gender or culture or anything else. No group should be able to claim complete ownership of a set of traits." The issue around appropriation imo is that people have the choice to pick the appealing parts and leave out the less appealing parts & switch back to their ‘norm’ as it suits | |||
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"Tom went to a fancy dress as a french onion seller once wearing a beret, hooped top with a string of onions around his neck riding a pushbike.. Was that cultural appropriation?" Stereotyping. Next question. | |||
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"This is a good question OP. I think people should do what pleases them. But I kinda have a question to those who don't identify as women, why so hyper female? Is that how you think women should dress? It's rare to find someone who dresses like the average female on the street. " This fascinated me as I know someone who crossdresses on occasion. It's totally hypersexualised, huge heels, slutty clothing etc. I've spoken to them to clarify as I had wondered this too. I mean, isn't a pretty floaty dress ultra feminine too? I did wonder if this was just as that's what's expected from TV's The answer made so much sense. It's a kink. Part of their BDSM lifestyle and not worn daily. It's like when I don my things that I wear. It takes me out of the person I am and into the realm of my BDSM personality. Everyone will do it for different reasons and will wear different things for themselves but I did wonder about the styles and why so overtly sexual and not what society sees as 'feminine' | |||
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"How do you tell them apart other than asking if they are TW, crossdressers or TVs? I've no real interest in how other people dress to be honest." By TW do you mean Trans woman? Well, the fact that trans women generally speaking would be living as a women 100% of the time. Generally blending in. Some trans women decide to live stealth. They might get all the surgeries (along with hormones) and none really questions it. I don’t know the exactly difference between CD and TV. I’d say TV tend to maybe tap into femininity a bit more. But that’s my own interpretation. TV also is about clothes. Being trans is about a whole being and the inner core. With GD being the pivotal difference cos it’s not about what someone wears. That’s just something that people put on to cover their backs and express their style. | |||
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"Tom went to a fancy dress as a french onion seller once wearing a beret, hooped top with a string of onions around his neck riding a pushbike.. Was that cultural appropriation? Stereotyping. Next question." See I do often find stereotyping funny. It's harmless. Until someone stereotypes me. D*unken Irish. You don't have an accent .. you're all just sluring your words all the time!! So now how do I feel about it. Idk. Complicated. | |||
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"Tom went to a fancy dress as a french onion seller once wearing a beret, hooped top with a string of onions around his neck riding a pushbike.. Was that cultural appropriation? Stereotyping. Next question. See I do often find stereotyping funny. It's harmless. Until someone stereotypes me. D*unken Irish. You don't have an accent .. you're all just sluring your words all the time!! So now how do I feel about it. Idk. Complicated. " Imagine the stereotyping of a wheelchair user | |||
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"Tom went to a fancy dress as a french onion seller once wearing a beret, hooped top with a string of onions around his neck riding a pushbike.. Was that cultural appropriation? Stereotyping. Next question. See I do often find stereotyping funny. It's harmless. Until someone stereotypes me. D*unken Irish. You don't have an accent .. you're all just sluring your words all the time!! So now how do I feel about it. Idk. Complicated. Imagine the stereotyping of a wheelchair user " | |||
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"Tom went to a fancy dress as a french onion seller once wearing a beret, hooped top with a string of onions around his neck riding a pushbike.. Was that cultural appropriation? Stereotyping. Next question. See I do often find stereotyping funny. It's harmless. Until someone stereotypes me. D*unken Irish. You don't have an accent .. you're all just sluring your words all the time!! So now how do I feel about it. Idk. Complicated. Imagine the stereotyping of a wheelchair user "I actually can't imagine lorna. I'm not sure I want to. If it helps all my stereotyping of you are the inappropriately sexy type | |||
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"How do you tell them apart other than asking if they are TW, crossdressers or TVs? I've no real interest in how other people dress to be honest. By TW do you mean Trans woman? Well, the fact that trans women generally speaking would be living as a women 100% of the time. Generally blending in. Some trans women decide to live stealth. They might get all the surgeries (along with hormones) and none really questions it. I don’t know the exactly difference between CD and TV. I’d say TV tend to maybe tap into femininity a bit more. But that’s my own interpretation. TV also is about clothes. Being trans is about a whole being and the inner core. With GD being the pivotal difference cos it’s not about what someone wears. That’s just something that people put on to cover their backs and express their style. " Great reply Kylie
But to help with the CD/TV difference. This is my opinion only.
Crossdressing is wearing the clothes without wishing to pass as female. So a guy with a beard can walk down the street wearing a skirt or dress and be a crossdresser.
Transvestite is trying to pass as a female as well as wearing the clothing. So grow hair long or wear a wig, plenty of makeup or hardly any at all. Shaving off of all body hair or only the bits that can be seen.
I am both I spend most of my time crossdressed (at home) but if I go out, I’m at Transvestite as I’ll shave off most of my body hair, wear a wig and apply makeup.
Other TV’s can have different opinions | |||
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"How do you tell them apart other than asking if they are TW, crossdressers or TVs? I've no real interest in how other people dress to be honest. By TW do you mean Trans woman? Well, the fact that trans women generally speaking would be living as a women 100% of the time. Generally blending in. Some trans women decide to live stealth. They might get all the surgeries (along with hormones) and none really questions it. I don’t know the exactly difference between CD and TV. I’d say TV tend to maybe tap into femininity a bit more. But that’s my own interpretation. TV also is about clothes. Being trans is about a whole being and the inner core. With GD being the pivotal difference cos it’s not about what someone wears. That’s just something that people put on to cover their backs and express their style. Great reply Kylie
But to help with the CD/TV difference. This is my opinion only.
Crossdressing is wearing the clothes without wishing to pass as female. So a guy with a beard can walk down the street wearing a skirt or dress and be a crossdresser.
Transvestite is trying to pass as a female as well as wearing the clothing. So grow hair long or wear a wig, plenty of makeup or hardly any at all. Shaving off of all body hair or only the bits that can be seen.
I am both I spend most of my time crossdressed (at home) but if I go out, I’m at Transvestite as I’ll shave off most of my body hair, wear a wig and apply makeup.
Other TV’s can have different opinions "Can I ask Steph, would you say the shaving part of wanting to appear feminine is part of the process? Or is there a rejection from the inside? Personally (I think I’ve become an advocate for laser companies ) , I’ve always rejected body hair as in my head, it made me feel super disconnected to my body. Hence why I’m smooth as a baby rat
But if I see the rare hair, it does still cause me dysphoria. It’s so difficult to put the feeling into words.
Cos obviously women have body hair and it’s totally normal but my brain really scrambles and translates it into: omg, male trait. | |||
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"How do you tell them apart other than asking if they are TW, crossdressers or TVs? I've no real interest in how other people dress to be honest. By TW do you mean Trans woman? Well, the fact that trans women generally speaking would be living as a women 100% of the time. Generally blending in. Some trans women decide to live stealth. They might get all the surgeries (along with hormones) and none really questions it. I don’t know the exactly difference between CD and TV. I’d say TV tend to maybe tap into femininity a bit more. But that’s my own interpretation. TV also is about clothes. Being trans is about a whole being and the inner core. With GD being the pivotal difference cos it’s not about what someone wears. That’s just something that people put on to cover their backs and express their style. Great reply Kylie
But to help with the CD/TV difference. This is my opinion only.
Crossdressing is wearing the clothes without wishing to pass as female. So a guy with a beard can walk down the street wearing a skirt or dress and be a crossdresser.
Transvestite is trying to pass as a female as well as wearing the clothing. So grow hair long or wear a wig, plenty of makeup or hardly any at all. Shaving off of all body hair or only the bits that can be seen.
I am both I spend most of my time crossdressed (at home) but if I go out, I’m at Transvestite as I’ll shave off most of my body hair, wear a wig and apply makeup.
Other TV’s can have different opinions
Can I ask Steph, would you say the shaving part of wanting to appear feminine is part of the process?
Or is there a rejection from the inside?
Personally (I think I’ve become an advocate for laser companies ) , I’ve always rejected body hair as in my head, it made me feel super disconnected to my body. Hence why I’m smooth as a baby rat
But if I see the rare hair, it does still cause me dysphoria. It’s so difficult to put the feeling into words.
Cos obviously women have body hair and it’s totally normal but my brain really scrambles and translates it into: omg, male trait. "Definitely female trait Kylie. Especially after the age of 40 | |||
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"How do you tell them apart other than asking if they are TW, crossdressers or TVs? I've no real interest in how other people dress to be honest. By TW do you mean Trans woman? Well, the fact that trans women generally speaking would be living as a women 100% of the time. Generally blending in. Some trans women decide to live stealth. They might get all the surgeries (along with hormones) and none really questions it. I don’t know the exactly difference between CD and TV. I’d say TV tend to maybe tap into femininity a bit more. But that’s my own interpretation. TV also is about clothes. Being trans is about a whole being and the inner core. With GD being the pivotal difference cos it’s not about what someone wears. That’s just something that people put on to cover their backs and express their style. Great reply Kylie
But to help with the CD/TV difference. This is my opinion only.
Crossdressing is wearing the clothes without wishing to pass as female. So a guy with a beard can walk down the street wearing a skirt or dress and be a crossdresser.
Transvestite is trying to pass as a female as well as wearing the clothing. So grow hair long or wear a wig, plenty of makeup or hardly any at all. Shaving off of all body hair or only the bits that can be seen.
I am both I spend most of my time crossdressed (at home) but if I go out, I’m at Transvestite as I’ll shave off most of my body hair, wear a wig and apply makeup.
Other TV’s can have different opinions
Can I ask Steph, would you say the shaving part of wanting to appear feminine is part of the process?
Or is there a rejection from the inside?
Personally (I think I’ve become an advocate for laser companies ) , I’ve always rejected body hair as in my head, it made me feel super disconnected to my body. Hence why I’m smooth as a baby rat
But if I see the rare hair, it does still cause me dysphoria. It’s so difficult to put the feeling into words.
Cos obviously women have body hair and it’s totally normal but my brain really scrambles and translates it into: omg, male trait.
Definitely female trait Kylie. Especially after the age of 40 "I know x it’s totally normal I’d say majority of women didn’t go through the extent perseverance that I did on blasting my body hair off with laser x
But body hair is just something my brain made me feel extremely disconnected. If it makes any sense | |||
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"How do you tell them apart other than asking if they are TW, crossdressers or TVs? I've no real interest in how other people dress to be honest. By TW do you mean Trans woman? Well, the fact that trans women generally speaking would be living as a women 100% of the time. Generally blending in. Some trans women decide to live stealth. They might get all the surgeries (along with hormones) and none really questions it. I don’t know the exactly difference between CD and TV. I’d say TV tend to maybe tap into femininity a bit more. But that’s my own interpretation. TV also is about clothes. Being trans is about a whole being and the inner core. With GD being the pivotal difference cos it’s not about what someone wears. That’s just something that people put on to cover their backs and express their style. Great reply Kylie
But to help with the CD/TV difference. This is my opinion only.
Crossdressing is wearing the clothes without wishing to pass as female. So a guy with a beard can walk down the street wearing a skirt or dress and be a crossdresser.
Transvestite is trying to pass as a female as well as wearing the clothing. So grow hair long or wear a wig, plenty of makeup or hardly any at all. Shaving off of all body hair or only the bits that can be seen.
I am both I spend most of my time crossdressed (at home) but if I go out, I’m at Transvestite as I’ll shave off most of my body hair, wear a wig and apply makeup.
Other TV’s can have different opinions
Can I ask Steph, would you say the shaving part of wanting to appear feminine is part of the process?
Or is there a rejection from the inside?
Personally (I think I’ve become an advocate for laser companies ) , I’ve always rejected body hair as in my head, it made me feel super disconnected to my body. Hence why I’m smooth as a baby rat
But if I see the rare hair, it does still cause me dysphoria. It’s so difficult to put the feeling into words.
Cos obviously women have body hair and it’s totally normal but my brain really scrambles and translates it into: omg, male trait. "I suffer from a hairy chest unfortunately, great when I was younger and pulling girls but not as a TV. For me it’s passing as a woman for myself, looking in the mirror and not seeing the man. If others see the woman and not the man, bonus. So shaving the majority of my body hair is a necessity to allow me to change my appearance and feel feminine within myself. Hopefully that makes sense and answers the question. | |||
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(Beard and frock reference) | |||
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"Some cis women objectify their own personal gender for thrills and gratification. Some cross dressers and transvestites may do so for nefarious reasons. Some like the feel of the clothes fabric against their skin. Some like how it makes them feel. Some enjoy the fantasy role play of lesbian sex. Cis??? You mean women, CIS means nothing as they are women, simple XX chromosomes. No need to fall for the silly game of giving everyone a new identity. In this discussion I needed to differentiate. I'm sorry you feel it's silly. And this is the perfect example! I barely use the word cis, there’s no need. But sometimes there needs to be made a differentiation " | |||
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"Tom went to a fancy dress as a french onion seller once wearing a beret, hooped top with a string of onions around his neck riding a pushbike.. Was that cultural appropriation? Stereotyping. Next question. See I do often find stereotyping funny. It's harmless. Until someone stereotypes me. D*unken Irish. You don't have an accent .. you're all just sluring your words all the time!! So now how do I feel about it. Idk. Complicated. Imagine the stereotyping of a wheelchair user
I actually can't imagine lorna. I'm not sure I want to.
If it helps all my stereotyping of you are the inappropriately sexy type "Apart from I'm not Lorna, I'll take it | |||
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"Billy Porter in a ball gown.
(Beard and frock reference)"He’s gorgeous. Can I pull it off though that’s what I want to know  | |||
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"Billy Porter in a ball gown.
(Beard and frock reference)
He’s gorgeous.
Can I pull it off though that’s what I want to know "Definitely! | |||
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"Dressing up for sex shouldn't be limited to women." What would you have us wear | |||
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"Billy Porter in a ball gown.
(Beard and frock reference)
He’s gorgeous.
Can I pull it off though that’s what I want to know
Definitely! " | |||
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"I have reached a stage where I feel comfortable in either male or female clothes, I often dress fully but don't wear make up or a wig. It just feels as natural to slip on knickers, hold ups and a skirt, as it does to slip on trousers, socks and underpants. Can I ask out of curiosity, I assume (taking clothes out of it - as a way of expression) you feel at home in your own body? And not talking about like, oh I could be slimmer or taller x " Never really thought about it, to be honest. If you mean do I feel jealous when I see a woman wearing nice clothes, as I know I won't look as good in them as she does, as I have a male body. There are times it happens, but I came to terms with that years ago. I know my limits on looking feminine. Or if I am with a woman, I think about removing her clothes to want to have sex with her. If I am with a bloke I feel comfortable with, I think about sucking his cock and want him to fuck me. | |||
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"Transvestites and crossdressers (as opposed to TS women). Are merely appropriating the female gender for thrills and gratification. Picking and choosing aspects of femininity is objectifying the female gender, and misogynistic" --I haven't read the thread yet as I've just seen it, but I'd say it's actually hard for me to 100% disavow all those statements except the very last one. I'm not misogynistic at all in my eyes. But I accept that some of my roleplaying could be interpreted as such for sure. Probably not so much on Fab though. I'd add that there are a few 'CDs' out there (TVs are in general more committed to the lifestyle of course) who really do take the piss. Some of them are just beered-up old fuckers who really don't give a shit about what they do or who they offend any more. Some of them clearly just want to illicitly wear all the used panties they can get hold of and masturbate in them. Some of them are more open and brash (and a lot are not on Fab!) And in a way, they all have a right to be like that unless they are not specifically harming anyone (some grey lines here I know).* *I wouldn't want some of these people waltzing into traditional ladies toilets though - and I've known people who after x amount of pints would - but I'm hoping that gender neutral toilets will help clear than one up.- | |||
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