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"It's a disgrace that the UK government has excluded the trans community from the ban on the nasty practice of Conversion Therapy. Remember there is a T that goes with LGB. I wonder how many of you "trans" admirers on here will make contact with their MP to demand safety and respect for trans people and include them in the ban !" It's a shame that your post has been presented the way it has. The information is good to know and will allow people to decide if they want to act on it. The pre emptive passive aggressive outrage will likely mean the point is lessened. Shame. | |||
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"It's a disgrace that the UK government has excluded the trans community from the ban on the nasty practice of Conversion Therapy. Remember there is a T that goes with LGB. I wonder how many of you "trans" admirers on here will make contact with their MP to demand safety and respect for trans people and include them in the ban ! It's a shame that your post has been presented the way it has. The information is good to know and will allow people to decide if they want to act on it. The pre emptive passive aggressive outrage will likely mean the point is lessened. Shame." You do realise that Conversion Therapy is a form of torture ! It needs discussion and if it can't be discussed or questioned amongst a group of people who promote non judgement then where can it be ! If you enjoy the company if a trans person then surely you wouldn't want them to be tortured by the state or church | |||
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"It's a disgrace that the UK government has excluded the trans community from the ban on the nasty practice of Conversion Therapy. Remember there is a T that goes with LGB. I wonder how many of you "trans" admirers on here will make contact with their MP to demand safety and respect for trans people and include them in the ban ! It's a shame that your post has been presented the way it has. The information is good to know and will allow people to decide if they want to act on it. The pre emptive passive aggressive outrage will likely mean the point is lessened. Shame. You do realise that Conversion Therapy is a form of torture ! It needs discussion and if it can't be discussed or questioned amongst a group of people who promote non judgement then where can it be ! If you enjoy the company if a trans person then surely you wouldn't want them to be tortured by the state or church " And you missed the point of what they are saying. | |||
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"It's a disgrace that the UK government has excluded the trans community from the ban on the nasty practice of Conversion Therapy. Remember there is a T that goes with LGB. I wonder how many of you "trans" admirers on here will make contact with their MP to demand safety and respect for trans people and include them in the ban ! It's a shame that your post has been presented the way it has. The information is good to know and will allow people to decide if they want to act on it. The pre emptive passive aggressive outrage will likely mean the point is lessened. Shame." I agree | |||
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"It's a disgrace that the UK government has excluded the trans community from the ban on the nasty practice of Conversion Therapy. Remember there is a T that goes with LGB. I wonder how many of you "trans" admirers on here will make contact with their MP to demand safety and respect for trans people and include them in the ban ! It's a shame that your post has been presented the way it has. The information is good to know and will allow people to decide if they want to act on it. The pre emptive passive aggressive outrage will likely mean the point is lessened. Shame. You do realise that Conversion Therapy is a form of torture ! It needs discussion and if it can't be discussed or questioned amongst a group of people who promote non judgement then where can it be ! If you enjoy the company if a trans person then surely you wouldn't want them to be tortured by the state or church And you missed the point of what they are saying. " Enlighten me then. | |||
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"It's a disgrace that the UK government has excluded the trans community from the ban on the nasty practice of Conversion Therapy. Remember there is a T that goes with LGB. I wonder how many of you "trans" admirers on here will make contact with their MP to demand safety and respect for trans people and include them in the ban ! It's a shame that your post has been presented the way it has. The information is good to know and will allow people to decide if they want to act on it. The pre emptive passive aggressive outrage will likely mean the point is lessened. Shame. You do realise that Conversion Therapy is a form of torture ! It needs discussion and if it can't be discussed or questioned amongst a group of people who promote non judgement then where can it be ! If you enjoy the company if a trans person then surely you wouldn't want them to be tortured by the state or church And you missed the point of what they are saying. Enlighten me then. " You came at the topic in an aggressive and condescending manner. Very “pointing your finger” at people That’s gonna turn people off from your post and the message For example, I’m actually pro-conversion therapy now purely because your post annoyed me | |||
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"It's a disgrace that the UK government has excluded the trans community from the ban on the nasty practice of Conversion Therapy. Remember there is a T that goes with LGB. I wonder how many of you "trans" admirers on here will make contact with their MP to demand safety and respect for trans people and include them in the ban ! It's a shame that your post has been presented the way it has. The information is good to know and will allow people to decide if they want to act on it. The pre emptive passive aggressive outrage will likely mean the point is lessened. Shame. You do realise that Conversion Therapy is a form of torture ! It needs discussion and if it can't be discussed or questioned amongst a group of people who promote non judgement then where can it be ! If you enjoy the company if a trans person then surely you wouldn't want them to be tortured by the state or church And you missed the point of what they are saying. Enlighten me then. " Basically people will be turned off from discussing the point because you started from an attack on the people you want a discussion from. | |||
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"It's a disgrace that the UK government has excluded the trans community from the ban on the nasty practice of Conversion Therapy. Remember there is a T that goes with LGB. I wonder how many of you "trans" admirers on here will make contact with their MP to demand safety and respect for trans people and include them in the ban ! It's a shame that your post has been presented the way it has. The information is good to know and will allow people to decide if they want to act on it. The pre emptive passive aggressive outrage will likely mean the point is lessened. Shame. You do realise that Conversion Therapy is a form of torture ! It needs discussion and if it can't be discussed or questioned amongst a group of people who promote non judgement then where can it be ! If you enjoy the company if a trans person then surely you wouldn't want them to be tortured by the state or church And you missed the point of what they are saying. Enlighten me then. You came at the topic in an aggressive and condescending manner. Very “pointing your finger” at people That’s gonna turn people off from your post and the message For example, I’m actually pro-conversion therapy now purely because your post annoyed me " I think when it comes to torturing people I have the right to be angry and aggressive. If people take offence and are so shallow they can't put human rights before ego then that's their outlook, not mine. | |||
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"It's a disgrace that the UK government has excluded the trans community from the ban on the nasty practice of Conversion Therapy. Remember there is a T that goes with LGB. I wonder how many of you "trans" admirers on here will make contact with their MP to demand safety and respect for trans people and include them in the ban ! It's a shame that your post has been presented the way it has. The information is good to know and will allow people to decide if they want to act on it. The pre emptive passive aggressive outrage will likely mean the point is lessened. Shame. You do realise that Conversion Therapy is a form of torture ! It needs discussion and if it can't be discussed or questioned amongst a group of people who promote non judgement then where can it be ! If you enjoy the company if a trans person then surely you wouldn't want them to be tortured by the state or church And you missed the point of what they are saying. Enlighten me then. You came at the topic in an aggressive and condescending manner. Very “pointing your finger” at people That’s gonna turn people off from your post and the message For example, I’m actually pro-conversion therapy now purely because your post annoyed me I think when it comes to torturing people I have the right to be angry and aggressive. If people take offence and are so shallow they can't put human rights before ego then that's their outlook, not mine." That’s true, but I don’t think you should be angry and aggressive towards the people your trying to garner support from. That’ll achieve the opposite effect Had your post been a little more well mannered you’d find about 99% of the forum users would absolutely support your cause Instead I’m now writing to my local MP to ask for more conversion therapy and to start it even younger | |||
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"It's a disgrace that the UK government has excluded the trans community from the ban on the nasty practice of Conversion Therapy. Remember there is a T that goes with LGB. I wonder how many of you "trans" admirers on here will make contact with their MP to demand safety and respect for trans people and include them in the ban ! It's a shame that your post has been presented the way it has. The information is good to know and will allow people to decide if they want to act on it. The pre emptive passive aggressive outrage will likely mean the point is lessened. Shame. You do realise that Conversion Therapy is a form of torture ! It needs discussion and if it can't be discussed or questioned amongst a group of people who promote non judgement then where can it be ! If you enjoy the company if a trans person then surely you wouldn't want them to be tortured by the state or church And you missed the point of what they are saying. Enlighten me then. You came at the topic in an aggressive and condescending manner. Very “pointing your finger” at people That’s gonna turn people off from your post and the message For example, I’m actually pro-conversion therapy now purely because your post annoyed me I think when it comes to torturing people I have the right to be angry and aggressive. If people take offence and are so shallow they can't put human rights before ego then that's their outlook, not mine. That’s true, but I don’t think you should be angry and aggressive towards the people your trying to garner support from. That’ll achieve the opposite effect Had your post been a little more well mannered you’d find about 99% of the forum users would absolutely support your cause Instead I’m now writing to my local MP to ask for more conversion therapy and to start it even younger " You clearly think this is a joke. Be ashamed , very ashamed. | |||
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"It's a disgrace that the UK government has excluded the trans community from the ban on the nasty practice of Conversion Therapy. Remember there is a T that goes with LGB. I wonder how many of you "trans" admirers on here will make contact with their MP to demand safety and respect for trans people and include them in the ban ! It's a shame that your post has been presented the way it has. The information is good to know and will allow people to decide if they want to act on it. The pre emptive passive aggressive outrage will likely mean the point is lessened. Shame. You do realise that Conversion Therapy is a form of torture ! It needs discussion and if it can't be discussed or questioned amongst a group of people who promote non judgement then where can it be ! If you enjoy the company if a trans person then surely you wouldn't want them to be tortured by the state or church And you missed the point of what they are saying. Enlighten me then. You came at the topic in an aggressive and condescending manner. Very “pointing your finger” at people That’s gonna turn people off from your post and the message For example, I’m actually pro-conversion therapy now purely because your post annoyed me I think when it comes to torturing people I have the right to be angry and aggressive. If people take offence and are so shallow they can't put human rights before ego then that's their outlook, not mine. That’s true, but I don’t think you should be angry and aggressive towards the people your trying to garner support from. That’ll achieve the opposite effect Had your post been a little more well mannered you’d find about 99% of the forum users would absolutely support your cause Instead I’m now writing to my local MP to ask for more conversion therapy and to start it even younger You clearly think this is a joke. Be ashamed , very ashamed." He doesn't. He is mocking you, and doing a fine job | |||
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"It's a disgrace that the UK government has excluded the trans community from the ban on the nasty practice of Conversion Therapy. Remember there is a T that goes with LGB. I wonder how many of you "trans" admirers on here will make contact with their MP to demand safety and respect for trans people and include them in the ban ! It's a shame that your post has been presented the way it has. The information is good to know and will allow people to decide if they want to act on it. The pre emptive passive aggressive outrage will likely mean the point is lessened. Shame. You do realise that Conversion Therapy is a form of torture ! It needs discussion and if it can't be discussed or questioned amongst a group of people who promote non judgement then where can it be ! If you enjoy the company if a trans person then surely you wouldn't want them to be tortured by the state or church And you missed the point of what they are saying. Enlighten me then. You came at the topic in an aggressive and condescending manner. Very “pointing your finger” at people That’s gonna turn people off from your post and the message For example, I’m actually pro-conversion therapy now purely because your post annoyed me I think when it comes to torturing people I have the right to be angry and aggressive. If people take offence and are so shallow they can't put human rights before ego then that's their outlook, not mine. That’s true, but I don’t think you should be angry and aggressive towards the people your trying to garner support from. That’ll achieve the opposite effect Had your post been a little more well mannered you’d find about 99% of the forum users would absolutely support your cause Instead I’m now writing to my local MP to ask for more conversion therapy and to start it even younger You clearly think this is a joke. Be ashamed , very ashamed. He doesn't. He is mocking you, and doing a fine job" It's not a subject for mocking or jokes. | |||
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"It's a disgrace that the UK government has excluded the trans community from the ban on the nasty practice of Conversion Therapy. Remember there is a T that goes with LGB. I wonder how many of you "trans" admirers on here will make contact with their MP to demand safety and respect for trans people and include them in the ban ! It's a shame that your post has been presented the way it has. The information is good to know and will allow people to decide if they want to act on it. The pre emptive passive aggressive outrage will likely mean the point is lessened. Shame. You do realise that Conversion Therapy is a form of torture ! It needs discussion and if it can't be discussed or questioned amongst a group of people who promote non judgement then where can it be ! If you enjoy the company if a trans person then surely you wouldn't want them to be tortured by the state or church And you missed the point of what they are saying. Enlighten me then. You came at the topic in an aggressive and condescending manner. Very “pointing your finger” at people That’s gonna turn people off from your post and the message For example, I’m actually pro-conversion therapy now purely because your post annoyed me I think when it comes to torturing people I have the right to be angry and aggressive. If people take offence and are so shallow they can't put human rights before ego then that's their outlook, not mine. That’s true, but I don’t think you should be angry and aggressive towards the people your trying to garner support from. That’ll achieve the opposite effect Had your post been a little more well mannered you’d find about 99% of the forum users would absolutely support your cause Instead I’m now writing to my local MP to ask for more conversion therapy and to start it even younger You clearly think this is a joke. Be ashamed , very ashamed. He doesn't. He is mocking you, and doing a fine job It's not a subject for mocking or jokes." I’m gonna ask if they can bring back flogging into conversion therapy. But I draw the line at water boarding. Unless they really need it | |||
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"It's a disgrace that the UK government has excluded the trans community from the ban on the nasty practice of Conversion Therapy. Remember there is a T that goes with LGB. I wonder how many of you "trans" admirers on here will make contact with their MP to demand safety and respect for trans people and include them in the ban ! It's a shame that your post has been presented the way it has. The information is good to know and will allow people to decide if they want to act on it. The pre emptive passive aggressive outrage will likely mean the point is lessened. Shame. You do realise that Conversion Therapy is a form of torture ! It needs discussion and if it can't be discussed or questioned amongst a group of people who promote non judgement then where can it be ! If you enjoy the company if a trans person then surely you wouldn't want them to be tortured by the state or church And you missed the point of what they are saying. Enlighten me then. You came at the topic in an aggressive and condescending manner. Very “pointing your finger” at people That’s gonna turn people off from your post and the message For example, I’m actually pro-conversion therapy now purely because your post annoyed me I think when it comes to torturing people I have the right to be angry and aggressive. If people take offence and are so shallow they can't put human rights before ego then that's their outlook, not mine. That’s true, but I don’t think you should be angry and aggressive towards the people your trying to garner support from. That’ll achieve the opposite effect Had your post been a little more well mannered you’d find about 99% of the forum users would absolutely support your cause Instead I’m now writing to my local MP to ask for more conversion therapy and to start it even younger You clearly think this is a joke. Be ashamed , very ashamed. He doesn't. He is mocking you, and doing a fine job It's not a subject for mocking or jokes. I’m gonna ask if they can bring back flogging into conversion therapy. But I draw the line at water boarding. Unless they really need it " Any joking, mocking or approval of this evi practice will be reported to moderators as abuse. It's not a subject to joke about or maybe your hiding your real approval behind a pretence of a joke | |||
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". I’m gonna ask if they can bring back flogging into conversion therapy. But I draw the line at water boarding. Unless they really need it " Classy. If a little unsurprising.  | |||
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"Either way, take this to the politics forum Shouldn’t even be here. Don’t make me convert you " Please leave it now, Thicc? It's just unpleasant. | |||
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"It's a disgrace that the UK government has excluded the trans community from the ban on the nasty practice of Conversion Therapy. Remember there is a T that goes with LGB. I wonder how many of you "trans" admirers on here will make contact with their MP to demand safety and respect for trans people and include them in the ban ! It's a shame that your post has been presented the way it has. The information is good to know and will allow people to decide if they want to act on it. The pre emptive passive aggressive outrage will likely mean the point is lessened. Shame. You do realise that Conversion Therapy is a form of torture ! It needs discussion and if it can't be discussed or questioned amongst a group of people who promote non judgement then where can it be ! If you enjoy the company if a trans person then surely you wouldn't want them to be tortured by the state or church And you missed the point of what they are saying. Enlighten me then. You came at the topic in an aggressive and condescending manner. Very “pointing your finger” at people That’s gonna turn people off from your post and the message For example, I’m actually pro-conversion therapy now purely because your post annoyed me I think when it comes to torturing people I have the right to be angry and aggressive. If people take offence and are so shallow they can't put human rights before ego then that's their outlook, not mine." Nobody here deserves your anger and aggression. Calm down please. | |||
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"I know the majority here will be supportive but the small minority shout louder. Peace." And you know this from being here six whole weeks?? | |||
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"It's a disgrace that the UK government has excluded the trans community from the ban on the nasty practice of Conversion Therapy. Remember there is a T that goes with LGB. I wonder how many of you "trans" admirers on here will make contact with their MP to demand safety and respect for trans people and include them in the ban ! It's a shame that your post has been presented the way it has. The information is good to know and will allow people to decide if they want to act on it. The pre emptive passive aggressive outrage will likely mean the point is lessened. Shame. You do realise that Conversion Therapy is a form of torture ! It needs discussion and if it can't be discussed or questioned amongst a group of people who promote non judgement then where can it be ! If you enjoy the company if a trans person then surely you wouldn't want them to be tortured by the state or church And you missed the point of what they are saying. Enlighten me then. You came at the topic in an aggressive and condescending manner. Very “pointing your finger” at people That’s gonna turn people off from your post and the message For example, I’m actually pro-conversion therapy now purely because your post annoyed me I think when it comes to torturing people I have the right to be angry and aggressive. If people take offence and are so shallow they can't put human rights before ego then that's their outlook, not mine. That’s true, but I don’t think you should be angry and aggressive towards the people your trying to garner support from. That’ll achieve the opposite effect Had your post been a little more well mannered you’d find about 99% of the forum users would absolutely support your cause Instead I’m now writing to my local MP to ask for more conversion therapy and to start it even younger You clearly think this is a joke. Be ashamed , very ashamed. He doesn't. He is mocking you, and doing a fine job It's not a subject for mocking or jokes. I’m gonna ask if they can bring back flogging into conversion therapy. But I draw the line at water boarding. Unless they really need it Any joking, mocking or approval of this evi practice will be reported to moderators as abuse. It's not a subject to joke about or maybe your hiding your real approval behind a pretence of a joke " There was a Transgender Conversation Therapy protest opposite Downing Street yesterday. Did you happen to attend? All major European countries have banned Conversion Therapy for Transgender people in-line with the rest of the LGBT community, apart from U.K. France did this recently, and outright majority of government members voted to ban. There is also a parliamentary petition supporting the ban for Trans folk if anyone is a supporter of that. There are allies here no doubt. You don’t necessarily have to be an “admirer” to support human rights. https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/613556 | |||
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Addressing injustice shouldn't require people to be calm and polite. | |||
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"Good post OP
Addressing injustice shouldn't require people to be calm and polite. "Why not? Starting a thread on a topic many people here will not be aware of - if you want support and interest, educate people, explain the background - don't shriek at them. | |||
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"Either way, take this to the politics forum Shouldn’t even be here. Don’t make me convert you Please leave it now, Thicc? It's just unpleasant. " Agreed. There’s no need for it. Whilst the OP was probably less eloquent and graceful with the wording than would have suited some….. it was really not that aggressive and certainly you’d have to be the most sensitive of snowflakes to even remotely feel “picked upon” FFs get a grip! I had to read it three times to even pick up on the aggression. The post was well intended even if clumsy. Get behind the message not shoot the messenger. | |||
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"I have no idea why this escalated to this sort of exchange of posts. Is there something the rest of us don't know? I feel I am in a parallel universe. " The temps are rising. A few snowflakes who seem very easily offended are having a last gasp before they melt.  | |||
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" The reason this version of the ban was turned down is due to the problems of a badly worded bill. There is apparently another bill that is better worded and encompasses other rights and laws without being a bad bill which will hurt the communities it supposedly seeks to protect. Read up on the issues you choose to be offended by. C" Exactly; this is about children not embarking on irreversible and potentially damaging medical treatment at an uncertain and confusing time of their lives and being able to receive sympathetic counselling, not just an unthinking channelling into drug treatment etc. | |||
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"It's a disgrace that the UK government has excluded the trans community from the ban on the nasty practice of Conversion Therapy. Remember there is a T that goes with LGB. I wonder how many of you "trans" admirers on here will make contact with their MP to demand safety and respect for trans people and include them in the ban ! It's a shame that your post has been presented the way it has. The information is good to know and will allow people to decide if they want to act on it. The pre emptive passive aggressive outrage will likely mean the point is lessened. Shame. You do realise that Conversion Therapy is a form of torture ! It needs discussion and if it can't be discussed or questioned amongst a group of people who promote non judgement then where can it be ! If you enjoy the company if a trans person then surely you wouldn't want them to be tortured by the state or church And you missed the point of what they are saying. Enlighten me then. " Others have already done perfectly, even if there was mocking included, but a great example (though not a direct comparison) is Insulate Britain, they didn't really do well at gaining support for their cause because of the way they went about making their point. Their cause was just and well meaning but they ended up pissing more people off. Don't alienate or attack those of who you wish to join your cause. Simple recruitment 101 really. | |||
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" The reason this version of the ban was turned down is due to the problems of a badly worded bill. There is apparently another bill that is better worded and encompasses other rights and laws without being a bad bill which will hurt the communities it supposedly seeks to protect. Read up on the issues you choose to be offended by. C Exactly; this is about children not embarking on irreversible and potentially damaging medical treatment at an uncertain and confusing time of their lives and being able to receive sympathetic counselling, not just an unthinking channelling into drug treatment etc." I think 16 is the legal age hormone therapy and blockers can be prescribed. Just going through some of the media blurb… The NHS and other professional bodies have warned all forms of conversion therapy are "unethical and potentially harmful". These therapies are not all about talking counselling…. There are some brutal ways used to suppress or change someone’s behaviour…. I need to find out more but seems akin to brainwashing, who would want that? And treating as if its a mental health condition. It is not. | |||
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" The reason this version of the ban was turned down is due to the problems of a badly worded bill. There is apparently another bill that is better worded and encompasses other rights and laws without being a bad bill which will hurt the communities it supposedly seeks to protect. Read up on the issues you choose to be offended by. C Exactly; this is about children not embarking on irreversible and potentially damaging medical treatment at an uncertain and confusing time of their lives and being able to receive sympathetic counselling, not just an unthinking channelling into drug treatment etc. I think 16 is the legal age hormone therapy and blockers can be prescribed. Just going through some of the media blurb… The NHS and other professional bodies have warned all forms of conversion therapy are "unethical and potentially harmful". These therapies are not all about talking counselling…. There are some brutal ways used to suppress or change someone’s behaviour…. I need to find out more but seems akin to brainwashing, who would want that? And treating as if its a mental health condition. It is not. " Blockers are prescribed privately to kids as young as nine via Gender GP. Dr Michael Webberley (a GGP Director) is currently facing a medical tribunal over his prescribing practices). | |||
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"It's a disgrace that the UK government has excluded the trans community from the ban on the nasty practice of Conversion Therapy. Remember there is a T that goes with LGB. I wonder how many of you "trans" admirers on here will make contact with their MP to demand safety and respect for trans people and include them in the ban ! It's a shame that your post has been presented the way it has. The information is good to know and will allow people to decide if they want to act on it. The pre emptive passive aggressive outrage will likely mean the point is lessened. Shame. You do realise that Conversion Therapy is a form of torture ! It needs discussion and if it can't be discussed or questioned amongst a group of people who promote non judgement then where can it be ! If you enjoy the company if a trans person then surely you wouldn't want them to be tortured by the state or church And you missed the point of what they are saying. Enlighten me then. You came at the topic in an aggressive and condescending manner. Very “pointing your finger” at people That’s gonna turn people off from your post and the message For example, I’m actually pro-conversion therapy now purely because your post annoyed me I think when it comes to torturing people I have the right to be angry and aggressive. If people take offence and are so shallow they can't put human rights before ego then that's their outlook, not mine. That’s true, but I don’t think you should be angry and aggressive towards the people your trying to garner support from. That’ll achieve the opposite effect Had your post been a little more well mannered you’d find about 99% of the forum users would absolutely support your cause Instead I’m now writing to my local MP to ask for more conversion therapy and to start it even younger You clearly think this is a joke. Be ashamed , very ashamed. He doesn't. He is mocking you, and doing a fine job It's not a subject for mocking or jokes. I’m gonna ask if they can bring back flogging into conversion therapy. But I draw the line at water boarding. Unless they really need it Any joking, mocking or approval of this evi practice will be reported to moderators as abuse. It's not a subject to joke about or maybe your hiding your real approval behind a pretence of a joke " xx | |||
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"His and his wife's practice wasn't part of the NHS and was a totally unlicenced practice. That was of their doing not their patients who trusted them. You will get unprincipled people in all aspects of health, business and life." I guess it didn't matter that it wasn't part of the NHS. The waiting lists are so long I can't blame desperate people for using Gender GP. But they should both be struck off for the lack of care they've exhibited for their patients.  | |||
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"It's a disgrace that the UK government has excluded the trans community from the ban on the nasty practice of Conversion Therapy. Remember there is a T that goes with LGB. I wonder how many of you "trans" admirers on here will make contact with their MP to demand safety and respect for trans people and include them in the ban ! It's a shame that your post has been presented the way it has. The information is good to know and will allow people to decide if they want to act on it. The pre emptive passive aggressive outrage will likely mean the point is lessened. Shame. You do realise that Conversion Therapy is a form of torture ! It needs discussion and if it can't be discussed or questioned amongst a group of people who promote non judgement then where can it be ! If you enjoy the company if a trans person then surely you wouldn't want them to be tortured by the state or church " Its also not mandatory, its completely voluntary. If people want that extreme therapy to potentially help with their gender dysmorphia condition than whats wrong with that? | |||
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"It's a disgrace that the UK government has excluded the trans community from the ban on the nasty practice of Conversion Therapy. Remember there is a T that goes with LGB. I wonder how many of you "trans" admirers on here will make contact with their MP to demand safety and respect for trans people and include them in the ban ! It's a shame that your post has been presented the way it has. The information is good to know and will allow people to decide if they want to act on it. The pre emptive passive aggressive outrage will likely mean the point is lessened. Shame. You do realise that Conversion Therapy is a form of torture ! It needs discussion and if it can't be discussed or questioned amongst a group of people who promote non judgement then where can it be ! If you enjoy the company if a trans person then surely you wouldn't want them to be tortured by the state or church Its also not mandatory, its completely voluntary. If people want that extreme therapy to potentially help with their gender dysmorphia condition than whats wrong with that? " Those that "want" it do so because society makes them feel more than just ashamed. They do so because they are essentially on the edge of suicide from how others are making them feel, a last resort. More often than not its their own families thst pressure them in to doing it because they are viewed as "wrong" and mentally unstable. If it were more widely accepted in society you can guarantee nobody would be wanting to to go through it. Maybe standard counselling to understand what they are going through, but actual conversation therapy, there would be zero volunteers, especially if they knew full well what it involved. | |||
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" Those that "want" it do so because society makes them feel more than just ashamed. They do so because they are essentially on the edge of suicide from how others are making them feel, a last resort. More often than not its their own families thst pressure them in to doing it because they are viewed as "wrong" and mentally unstable. If it were more widely accepted in society you can guarantee nobody would be wanting to to go through it. Maybe standard counselling to understand what they are going through, but actual conversation therapy, there would be zero volunteers, especially if they knew full well what it involved. " Acceptance should be the first point that people should take, but i do believe people should have the option if they want it. If it can help them be who they want to be than it may be worth it. | |||
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" Those that "want" it do so because society makes them feel more than just ashamed. They do so because they are essentially on the edge of suicide from how others are making them feel, a last resort. More often than not its their own families thst pressure them in to doing it because they are viewed as "wrong" and mentally unstable. If it were more widely accepted in society you can guarantee nobody would be wanting to to go through it. Maybe standard counselling to understand what they are going through, but actual conversation therapy, there would be zero volunteers, especially if they knew full well what it involved. Acceptance should be the first point that people should take, but i do believe people should have the option if they want it. If it can help them be who they want to be than it may be worth it. " Just read an interesting article by opendemocracy dot net. “” Does it work? No. Numerous medical groups, including the APA, have questioned the efficacy and evidence for such ‘treatments’. The APA says that attempts to change an individual’s sexual orientation “may occasionally result in temporary behavioural changes for some […] for limited periods of time, but that such changes are often accompanied by depression, anxiety, and other symptoms”. For others, no changes happen “” “” What are the consequences of ‘conversion therapy’? “Research has shown that these practices have lasting psychological effects. A 2018 US study found that young LGBTIQ people who reported undergoing 'conversion therapy' were “more than twice as likely to report having attempted suicide”. “” | |||
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" Those that "want" it do so because society makes them feel more than just ashamed. They do so because they are essentially on the edge of suicide from how others are making them feel, a last resort. More often than not its their own families thst pressure them in to doing it because they are viewed as "wrong" and mentally unstable. If it were more widely accepted in society you can guarantee nobody would be wanting to to go through it. Maybe standard counselling to understand what they are going through, but actual conversation therapy, there would be zero volunteers, especially if they knew full well what it involved. Acceptance should be the first point that people should take, but i do believe people should have the option if they want it. If it can help them be who they want to be than it may be worth it. Just read an interesting article by opendemocracy dot net. “” Does it work? No. Numerous medical groups, including the APA, have questioned the efficacy and evidence for such ‘treatments’. The APA says that attempts to change an individual’s sexual orientation “may occasionally result in temporary behavioural changes for some […] for limited periods of time, but that such changes are often accompanied by depression, anxiety, and other symptoms”. For others, no changes happen “” “” What are the consequences of ‘conversion therapy’? “Research has shown that these practices have lasting psychological effects. A 2018 US study found that young LGBTIQ people who reported undergoing 'conversion therapy' were “more than twice as likely to report having attempted suicide”. “”" It may work for some tho. Like i said its optional if not for you than you don’t have to have it. I understand banning something thats mandatory but its not. | |||
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" Those that "want" it do so because society makes them feel more than just ashamed. They do so because they are essentially on the edge of suicide from how others are making them feel, a last resort. More often than not its their own families thst pressure them in to doing it because they are viewed as "wrong" and mentally unstable. If it were more widely accepted in society you can guarantee nobody would be wanting to to go through it. Maybe standard counselling to understand what they are going through, but actual conversation therapy, there would be zero volunteers, especially if they knew full well what it involved. Acceptance should be the first point that people should take, but i do believe people should have the option if they want it. If it can help them be who they want to be than it may be worth it. Just read an interesting article by opendemocracy dot net. “” Does it work? No. Numerous medical groups, including the APA, have questioned the efficacy and evidence for such ‘treatments’. The APA says that attempts to change an individual’s sexual orientation “may occasionally result in temporary behavioural changes for some […] for limited periods of time, but that such changes are often accompanied by depression, anxiety, and other symptoms”. For others, no changes happen “” “” What are the consequences of ‘conversion therapy’? “Research has shown that these practices have lasting psychological effects. A 2018 US study found that young LGBTIQ people who reported undergoing 'conversion therapy' were “more than twice as likely to report having attempted suicide”. “” It may work for some tho. Like i said its optional if not for you than you don’t have to have it. I understand banning something thats mandatory but its not. " People should be aware the pitfalls even though something may be optional, I haven’t checked if it is. Here’s some background on a report summarising findings of international evidence on the nature and effectiveness of conversion therapy. It’s on the U.K. gov website. “” Research and analysis An assessment of the evidence on conversion therapy for sexual orientation and gender identity Published 29 October 2021 1.2 Main findings The main findings from the studies were that: there is no robust evidence that conversion therapy can achieve its stated therapeutic aim of changing sexual orientation or gender identity the types of practices tend to be similar for conversion therapy for sexual orientation and for gender identity – for example, talking therapies delivered by faith groups or mental health professionals conversion therapies were associated with self-reported harms among research participants who had experienced conversion therapy for sexual orientation and for gender identity – for example, negative mental health effects like depression and feeling suicidal there is indicative evidence from surveys that transgender respondents were as likely or more likely to be offered and receive conversion therapy than non-transgender lesbian, gay or bisexual (LGB) respondents “” | |||
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"You do realise that Conversion Therapy is a form of torture !" I've not read up on trans conversion therapy, but if it's anything like gay conversion therapy it just involves a lot of praying and being told to 'think good thoughts'. Not fun, and not useful, but also not particularly unpleasant. What happens in trans conversion therapy that you consider to be 'torture'? | |||
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" Those that "want" it do so because society makes them feel more than just ashamed. They do so because they are essentially on the edge of suicide from how others are making them feel, a last resort. More often than not its their own families thst pressure them in to doing it because they are viewed as "wrong" and mentally unstable. If it were more widely accepted in society you can guarantee nobody would be wanting to to go through it. Maybe standard counselling to understand what they are going through, but actual conversation therapy, there would be zero volunteers, especially if they knew full well what it involved. Acceptance should be the first point that people should take, but i do believe people should have the option if they want it. If it can help them be who they want to be than it may be worth it. Just read an interesting article by opendemocracy dot net. “” Does it work? No. Numerous medical groups, including the APA, have questioned the efficacy and evidence for such ‘treatments’. The APA says that attempts to change an individual’s sexual orientation “may occasionally result in temporary behavioural changes for some […] for limited periods of time, but that such changes are often accompanied by depression, anxiety, and other symptoms”. For others, no changes happen “” “” What are the consequences of ‘conversion therapy’? “Research has shown that these practices have lasting psychological effects. A 2018 US study found that young LGBTIQ people who reported undergoing 'conversion therapy' were “more than twice as likely to report having attempted suicide”. “” It may work for some tho. Like i said its optional if not for you than you don’t have to have it. I understand banning something thats mandatory but its not. People should be aware the pitfalls even though something may be optional, I haven’t checked if it is. Here’s some background on a report summarising findings of international evidence on the nature and effectiveness of conversion therapy. It’s on the U.K. gov website. “” Research and analysis An assessment of the evidence on conversion therapy for sexual orientation and gender identity Published 29 October 2021 1.2 Main findings The main findings from the studies were that: there is no robust evidence that conversion therapy can achieve its stated therapeutic aim of changing sexual orientation or gender identity the types of practices tend to be similar for conversion therapy for sexual orientation and for gender identity – for example, talking therapies delivered by faith groups or mental health professionals conversion therapies were associated with self-reported harms among research participants who had experienced conversion therapy for sexual orientation and for gender identity – for example, negative mental health effects like depression and feeling suicidal there is indicative evidence from surveys that transgender respondents were as likely or more likely to be offered and receive conversion therapy than non-transgender lesbian, gay or bisexual (LGB) respondents “” " Yeah people should be aware of what it is before getting into for sure. | |||
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"You do realise that Conversion Therapy is a form of torture ! I've not read up on trans conversion therapy, but if it's anything like gay conversion therapy it just involves a lot of praying and being told to 'think good thoughts'. Not fun, and not useful, but also not particularly unpleasant. What happens in trans conversion therapy that you consider to be 'torture'?" Perhaps it might be worth reading a bit… In some places they do this… “” physical ‘aversion therapy’, where the person is simultaneously subjected to a distressing sensation and a stimulus they associate with their sexuality or gender identity. Torture is also used, including so-called corrective r@pe. “” | |||
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"physical ‘aversion therapy’, where the person is simultaneously subjected to a distressing sensation and a stimulus they associate with their sexuality or gender identity. Torture is also used, including so-called corrective r@pe." Aversion Therapy is fairly standard to cure phobias. Exposure to spiders or balloons or whatever you are scared of can indeed cure people. It's not fun to do, but it isn't torture. I'd not heard of "corrective r@pe" before, but we already have a law against that. (Just to be clear, while Aversion Therapy can work for irrational phobias, it isn't going to be any use in changing someone's gender orientation.) | |||
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"physical ‘aversion therapy’, where the person is simultaneously subjected to a distressing sensation and a stimulus they associate with their sexuality or gender identity. Torture is also used, including so-called corrective r@pe. Aversion Therapy is fairly standard to cure phobias. Exposure to spiders or balloons or whatever you are scared of can indeed cure people. It's not fun to do, but it isn't torture. I'd not heard of "corrective r@pe" before, but we already have a law against that. (Just to be clear, while Aversion Therapy can work for irrational phobias, it isn't going to be any use in changing someone's gender orientation.)" Think electro shock therapy is illegal now A recurrent method used is aversion (electric shocks, nausea-inducing or paralysis-inducing drugs) through which a person is subjected to a negative, painful or otherwise distressing sensation while being exposed to a certain stimulus connected to their sexual orientation “Conversion therapy teaches people that who they are cannot be healthy or right,” However the exact mechanism this seems pretty distressing for someone to go through. | |||
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"I love when some one tells me what to do and think. It's fantastic, it makes me think of 1984,Stalin's Russia, Nazi germany, the spanish inquisition (didn't expect that did you). It's also wonderful when the assume my reactions, actions and thoughts. "Says someone who openly used the p-word on forum. Go do one... | |||
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"I love when some one tells me what to do and think. It's fantastic, it makes me think of 1984,Stalin's Russia, Nazi germany, the spanish inquisition (didn't expect that did you). It's also wonderful when the assume my reactions, actions and thoughts.
Says someone who openly used the p-word on forum.
Go do one..."I don't take orders of people who ain't paying  | |||
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"I love when some one tells me what to do and think. It's fantastic, it makes me think of 1984,Stalin's Russia, Nazi germany, the spanish inquisition (didn't expect that did you). It's also wonderful when the assume my reactions, actions and thoughts. "I think it seems more the case that you have been given information on which you can base your own decisions. Not sure anyone has told you what to think. | |||
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"I love when some one tells me what to do and think. It's fantastic, it makes me think of 1984,Stalin's Russia, Nazi germany, the spanish inquisition (didn't expect that did you). It's also wonderful when the assume my reactions, actions and thoughts.
I think it seems more the case that you have been given information on which you can base your own decisions. Not sure anyone has told you what to think."I've already got an opinion on it, I've already acted on it. You're lovely by the way | |||
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"I love when some one tells me what to do and think. It's fantastic, it makes me think of 1984,Stalin's Russia, Nazi germany, the spanish inquisition (didn't expect that did you). It's also wonderful when the assume my reactions, actions and thoughts.
I think it seems more the case that you have been given information on which you can base your own decisions. Not sure anyone has told you what to think."Some of the wording might be too long. But the P-word, oh yes that they know. | |||
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" Some of the wording might be too long. But the P-word, oh yes that they know." Explain? I don't understand the sentence. | |||
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"I love when some one tells me what to do and think. It's fantastic, it makes me think of 1984,Stalin's Russia, Nazi germany, the spanish inquisition (didn't expect that did you). It's also wonderful when the assume my reactions, actions and thoughts.
I think it seems more the case that you have been given information on which you can base your own decisions. Not sure anyone has told you what to think.
I've already got an opinion on it, I've already acted on it.
You're lovely by the way "That's very nice if you to say, but I do think that conversion therapy is a nasty thing, and I would have expected any right thinking, decent individual to feel the same. Just an opinion ... I am categorically not telling you what to say/do/think | |||
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"I love when some one tells me what to do and think. It's fantastic, it makes me think of 1984,Stalin's Russia, Nazi germany, the spanish inquisition (didn't expect that did you). It's also wonderful when the assume my reactions, actions and thoughts.
I think it seems more the case that you have been given information on which you can base your own decisions. Not sure anyone has told you what to think.
Some of the wording might be too long. But the P-word, oh yes that they know."We don't like the P-word | |||
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"I love when some one tells me what to do and think. It's fantastic, it makes me think of 1984,Stalin's Russia, Nazi germany, the spanish inquisition (didn't expect that did you). It's also wonderful when the assume my reactions, actions and thoughts.
I think it seems more the case that you have been given information on which you can base your own decisions. Not sure anyone has told you what to think.
I've already got an opinion on it, I've already acted on it.
You're lovely by the way
That's very nice if you to say, but I do think that conversion therapy is a nasty thing, and I would have expected any right thinking, decent individual to feel the same.
Just an opinion ... I am categorically not telling you what to say/do/think"I'm quite strongly against it, i like my trans friends. | |||
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"I love when some one tells me what to do and think. It's fantastic, it makes me think of 1984,Stalin's Russia, Nazi germany, the spanish inquisition (didn't expect that did you). It's also wonderful when the assume my reactions, actions and thoughts.
I think it seems more the case that you have been given information on which you can base your own decisions. Not sure anyone has told you what to think.
Some of the wording might be too long. But the P-word, oh yes that they know.
We don't like the P-word"There's worse to be fair. | |||
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"I love when some one tells me what to do and think. It's fantastic, it makes me think of 1984,Stalin's Russia, Nazi germany, the spanish inquisition (didn't expect that did you). It's also wonderful when the assume my reactions, actions and thoughts.
I think it seems more the case that you have been given information on which you can base your own decisions. Not sure anyone has told you what to think.
Some of the wording might be too long. But the P-word, oh yes that they know.
We don't like the P-word
There's worse to be fair. "Its not the word per se, it the use of it. At best crass insensitivity, at worst wilfully offensive. | |||
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"Its not the word per se, it the use of it. At best crass insensitivity, at worst wilfully offensive." I've never claimed to be either diplomatic, only adorable. | |||
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"I love when some one tells me what to do and think. It's fantastic, it makes me think of 1984,Stalin's Russia, Nazi germany, the spanish inquisition (didn't expect that did you). It's also wonderful when the assume my reactions, actions and thoughts.
I think it seems more the case that you have been given information on which you can base your own decisions. Not sure anyone has told you what to think.
Some of the wording might be too long. But the P-word, oh yes that they know.
We don't like the P-word
There's worse to be fair. "Wow. Why are you so horrid on here? | |||
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"I love when some one tells me what to do and think. It's fantastic, it makes me think of 1984,Stalin's Russia, Nazi germany, the spanish inquisition (didn't expect that did you). It's also wonderful when the assume my reactions, actions and thoughts.
I think it seems more the case that you have been given information on which you can base your own decisions. Not sure anyone has told you what to think.
Some of the wording might be too long. But the P-word, oh yes that they know.
We don't like the P-word
There's worse to be fair.
Wow. Why are you so horrid on here? "Attention | |||
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"I love when some one tells me what to do and think. It's fantastic, it makes me think of 1984,Stalin's Russia, Nazi germany, the spanish inquisition (didn't expect that did you). It's also wonderful when the assume my reactions, actions and thoughts.
I think it seems more the case that you have been given information on which you can base your own decisions. Not sure anyone has told you what to think.
Some of the wording might be too long. But the P-word, oh yes that they know.
We don't like the P-word
There's worse to be fair.
Wow. Why are you so horrid on here? "I can only be me | |||
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"Its not the word per se, it the use of it. At best crass insensitivity, at worst wilfully offensive. I've never claimed to be either diplomatic, only adorable. "Only racists find racists adorable. By the way. | |||
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"Its not the word per se, it the use of it. At best crass insensitivity, at worst wilfully offensive. I've never claimed to be either diplomatic, only adorable.
Only racists find racists adorable. By the way. "Realy? Next you're going to tell me to go back to my own country | |||
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"Good post OP
Addressing injustice shouldn't require people to be calm and polite. "Agreed. Injustice itself is not calm and polite. It’s violent and it’s brutal. Politely asking to be treated as equal human beings doesn’t get marginalised or oppressed groups anywhere. | |||
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"Its not the word per se, it the use of it. At best crass insensitivity, at worst wilfully offensive. I've never claimed to be either diplomatic, only adorable.
Only racists find racists adorable. By the way.
Realy? Next you're going to tell me to go back to my own country "I just want you to stop being so horrid and overtly racist on the forums and have some care for the other people in the forums that are affected by the horrible slurs you use thinking you’re funny or adorable. That’s all I think most of us want tbh. | |||
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" There was a Transgender Conversation Therapy protest opposite Downing Street yesterday. Did you happen to attend? All major European countries have banned Conversion Therapy for Transgender people in-line with the rest of the LGBT community, apart from U.K. France did this recently, and outright majority of government members voted to ban. There is also a parliamentary petition supporting the ban for Trans folk if anyone is a supporter of that. There are allies here no doubt. You don’t necessarily have to be an “admirer” to support human rights. https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/613556" Well done Kal! , and thank you for also sharing the link to petition. A far more useful approach which will hopefully encourage those who haven’t signed to at least look into it.
Perhaps if the OP had only been more articulate in his approach this would have been a much more informative, supportive and positive thread | |||
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"Good post OP
Addressing injustice shouldn't require people to be calm and polite.
Agreed. Injustice itself is not calm and polite. It’s violent and it’s brutal. Politely asking to be treated as equal human beings doesn’t get marginalised or oppressed groups anywhere. "Just out of curiosity, what does get oppressed and marginalised groups somewhere? | |||
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"Good post OP
Addressing injustice shouldn't require people to be calm and polite.
Agreed. Injustice itself is not calm and polite. It’s violent and it’s brutal. Politely asking to be treated as equal human beings doesn’t get marginalised or oppressed groups anywhere.
Just out of curiosity, what does get oppressed and marginalised groups somewhere? "Historically, direct action has on occasion been effective | |||
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"Good post OP
Addressing injustice shouldn't require people to be calm and polite.
Agreed. Injustice itself is not calm and polite. It’s violent and it’s brutal. Politely asking to be treated as equal human beings doesn’t get marginalised or oppressed groups anywhere.
Just out of curiosity, what does get oppressed and marginalised groups somewhere?
Historically, direct action has on occasion been effective "Lawful protest and petitioning Parliament, is more effective i think you'll find. Historically, less people get hurt that way. | |||
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"Its not the word per se, it the use of it. At best crass insensitivity, at worst wilfully offensive. I've never claimed to be either diplomatic, only adorable.
Only racists find racists adorable. By the way.
Realy? Next you're going to tell me to go back to my own country
I just want you to stop being so horrid and overtly racist on the forums and have some care for the other people in the forums that are affected by the horrible slurs you use thinking you’re funny or adorable. That’s all I think most of us want tbh. "So my opinion in your opinion is worthless and unwanted? | |||
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"Good post OP
Addressing injustice shouldn't require people to be calm and polite.
Agreed. Injustice itself is not calm and polite. It’s violent and it’s brutal. Politely asking to be treated as equal human beings doesn’t get marginalised or oppressed groups anywhere.
Just out of curiosity, what does get oppressed and marginalised groups somewhere?
Historically, direct action has on occasion been effective
Lawful protest and petitioning Parliament, is more effective i think you'll find.
Historically, less people get hurt that way. "Direct Action (noun) the use of strikes, demonstrations, or other public forms of protest rather than negotiation to achieve one's demands. Yes, that's what I said | |||
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"Good post OP
Addressing injustice shouldn't require people to be calm and polite.
Agreed. Injustice itself is not calm and polite. It’s violent and it’s brutal. Politely asking to be treated as equal human beings doesn’t get marginalised or oppressed groups anywhere.
Just out of curiosity, what does get oppressed and marginalised groups somewhere?
Historically, direct action has on occasion been effective
Lawful protest and petitioning Parliament, is more effective i think you'll find.
Historically, less people get hurt that way.
Direct Action
(noun)
the use of strikes, demonstrations, or other public forms of protest rather than negotiation to achieve one's demands.
Yes, that's what I said"I think you'll find the negotiation bit is important to. But each to their own. | |||
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"Good post OP
Addressing injustice shouldn't require people to be calm and polite.
Agreed. Injustice itself is not calm and polite. It’s violent and it’s brutal. Politely asking to be treated as equal human beings doesn’t get marginalised or oppressed groups anywhere.
Just out of curiosity, what does get oppressed and marginalised groups somewhere?
Historically, direct action has on occasion been effective
Lawful protest and petitioning Parliament, is more effective i think you'll find.
Historically, less people get hurt that way. "Women didn't get the vote by petitioning parliament or lawfully protesting. It took radical action. Ditto for rights for black people in America and to a lesser extent, here in the UK. | |||
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"Good post OP
Addressing injustice shouldn't require people to be calm and polite.
Agreed. Injustice itself is not calm and polite. It’s violent and it’s brutal. Politely asking to be treated as equal human beings doesn’t get marginalised or oppressed groups anywhere.
Just out of curiosity, what does get oppressed and marginalised groups somewhere? "I’ll tell you what doesn’t get us anywhere, again in case you missed it above- politely asking to be treated equal. Because if that did work then there would be no examples of organised resistance throughout history because people would’ve just written nicely worded polite letters asking for equality and it would’ve been granted. Lol. It takes organising and that includes peaceful protest but isn’t limited to it. Peaceful protest by the way is still disruptive. And still is not the calm, polite act that people suggest that it is. | |||
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"Women didn't get the vote by petitioning parliament or lawfully protesting. It took radical action. Ditto for rights for black people in America and to a lesser extent, here in the UK. " The outbreak of the First World War on 4 August 1914 led to a suspension of party politics, including the militant suffragette campaigns. Lobbying did take place quietly. In 1918 a coalition government passed the Representation of the People Act 1918, enfranchising all men over 21, as well as all women over the age of 30 who met minimum property qualifications. This act was the first to include almost all adult men in the political system and began the inclusion of women, extending the franchise by 5.6 million men[2] and 8.4 million women.[3] In 1928 the Conservative government passed the Representation of the People (Equal Franchise) Act equalizing the franchise to all persons over the age of 21 on equal terms.  | |||
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"Its not the word per se, it the use of it. At best crass insensitivity, at worst wilfully offensive. I've never claimed to be either diplomatic, only adorable.
Only racists find racists adorable. By the way.
Realy? Next you're going to tell me to go back to my own country
I just want you to stop being so horrid and overtly racist on the forums and have some care for the other people in the forums that are affected by the horrible slurs you use thinking you’re funny or adorable. That’s all I think most of us want tbh.
So my opinion in your opinion is worthless and unwanted? "You have been racist on the forums. You’ve joked about it. You clearly don’t care about it. My opinion (or anyone else’s opinion) of your opinions don’t bother you. So there’s no more to clarify. It is what it is. Let’s stop interacting. | |||
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"I’ll tell you what doesn’t get us anywhere, again in case you missed it above- politely asking to be treated equal. Because if that did work then there would be no examples of organised resistance throughout history because people would’ve just written nicely worded polite letters asking for equality and it would’ve been granted. Lol. It takes organising and that includes peaceful protest but isn’t limited to it. Peaceful protest by the way is still disruptive. And still is not the calm, polite act that people suggest that it is. " You do know you live in a Democratic country? With like elected representatives and an unwritten constitution? | |||
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"Women didn't get the vote by petitioning parliament or lawfully protesting. It took radical action. Ditto for rights for black people in America and to a lesser extent, here in the UK. The outbreak of the First World War on 4 August 1914 led to a suspension of party politics, including the militant suffragette campaigns. Lobbying did take place quietly. In 1918 a coalition government passed the Representation of the People Act 1918, enfranchising all men over 21, as well as all women over the age of 30 who met minimum property qualifications. This act was the first to include almost all adult men in the political system and began the inclusion of women, extending the franchise by 5.6 million men[2] and 8.4 million women.[3] In 1928 the Conservative government passed the Representation of the People (Equal Franchise) Act equalizing the franchise to all persons over the age of 21 on equal terms. "Excellent Wiki pasting
And would this have been in a position to happen, had activists not carried out the extensive militant campaign before WW1? Highly doubtful. | |||
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"Women didn't get the vote by petitioning parliament or lawfully protesting. It took radical action. Ditto for rights for black people in America and to a lesser extent, here in the UK. The outbreak of the First World War on 4 August 1914 led to a suspension of party politics, including the militant suffragette campaigns. Lobbying did take place quietly. In 1918 a coalition government passed the Representation of the People Act 1918, enfranchising all men over 21, as well as all women over the age of 30 who met minimum property qualifications. This act was the first to include almost all adult men in the political system and began the inclusion of women, extending the franchise by 5.6 million men[2] and 8.4 million women.[3] In 1928 the Conservative government passed the Representation of the People (Equal Franchise) Act equalizing the franchise to all persons over the age of 21 on equal terms.
Excellent Wiki pasting
And would this have been in a position to happen, had activists not carried out the extensive militant campaign before WW1? Highly doubtful."It’s the way he mansplains for me. He’s truly beautiful.  | |||
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"Women didn't get the vote by petitioning parliament or lawfully protesting. It took radical action. Ditto for rights for black people in America and to a lesser extent, here in the UK. The outbreak of the First World War on 4 August 1914 led to a suspension of party politics, including the militant suffragette campaigns. Lobbying did take place quietly. In 1918 a coalition government passed the Representation of the People Act 1918, enfranchising all men over 21, as well as all women over the age of 30 who met minimum property qualifications. This act was the first to include almost all adult men in the political system and began the inclusion of women, extending the franchise by 5.6 million men[2] and 8.4 million women.[3] In 1928 the Conservative government passed the Representation of the People (Equal Franchise) Act equalizing the franchise to all persons over the age of 21 on equal terms.
Excellent Wiki pasting
And would this have been in a position to happen, had activists not carried out the extensive militant campaign before WW1? Highly doubtful."Probably. It's one of those inevitable things. | |||
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" There was a Transgender Conversation Therapy protest opposite Downing Street yesterday. Did you happen to attend? All major European countries have banned Conversion Therapy for Transgender people in-line with the rest of the LGBT community, apart from U.K. France did this recently, and outright majority of government members voted to ban. There is also a parliamentary petition supporting the ban for Trans folk if anyone is a supporter of that. There are allies here no doubt. You don’t necessarily have to be an “admirer” to support human rights. https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/613556 Well done Kal! , and thank you for also sharing the link to petition. A far more useful approach which will hopefully encourage those who haven’t signed to at least look into it.
Perhaps if the OP had only been more articulate in his approach this would have been a much more informative, supportive and positive thread "Thank you. I wanted to help find information to share to help gain insights collectively, rather then people voicing opinions for the sake of it (we all like to do that here), and hopefully avoid message ping pong with baseless statements. Hopefully we can get back to point. | |||
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"It’s the way he mansplains for me. He’s truly beautiful. "See you're finding me more adorable with every passing post. | |||
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" There was a Transgender Conversation Therapy protest opposite Downing Street yesterday. Did you happen to attend? All major European countries have banned Conversion Therapy for Transgender people in-line with the rest of the LGBT community, apart from U.K. France did this recently, and outright majority of government members voted to ban. There is also a parliamentary petition supporting the ban for Trans folk if anyone is a supporter of that. There are allies here no doubt. You don’t necessarily have to be an “admirer” to support human rights. https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/613556 Well done Kal! , and thank you for also sharing the link to petition. A far more useful approach which will hopefully encourage those who haven’t signed to at least look into it.
Perhaps if the OP had only been more articulate in his approach this would have been a much more informative, supportive and positive thread
Thank you. I wanted to help find information to share to help gain insights collectively, rather then people voicing opinions for the sake of it (we all like to do that here), and hopefully avoid message ping pong with baseless statements.
Hopefully we can get back to point."Think OP's heart was in the right place though. | |||
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"Think OP's heart was in the right place though." You'd hope so. Surley if it wasn't he'd be quite unwell. | |||
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" There was a Transgender Conversation Therapy protest opposite Downing Street yesterday. Did you happen to attend? All major European countries have banned Conversion Therapy for Transgender people in-line with the rest of the LGBT community, apart from U.K. France did this recently, and outright majority of government members voted to ban. There is also a parliamentary petition supporting the ban for Trans folk if anyone is a supporter of that. There are allies here no doubt. You don’t necessarily have to be an “admirer” to support human rights. https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/613556 Well done Kal! , and thank you for also sharing the link to petition. A far more useful approach which will hopefully encourage those who haven’t signed to at least look into it.
Perhaps if the OP had only been more articulate in his approach this would have been a much more informative, supportive and positive thread
Thank you. I wanted to help find information to share to help gain insights collectively, rather then people voicing opinions for the sake of it (we all like to do that here), and hopefully avoid message ping pong with baseless statements.
Hopefully we can get back to point.
Think OP's heart was in the right place though."Can't say the same for some peoples brain... | |||
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"Can't say the same for some peoples brain..." That statement makes no sense. Engelse stomheid | |||
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" There was a Transgender Conversation Therapy protest opposite Downing Street yesterday. Did you happen to attend? All major European countries have banned Conversion Therapy for Transgender people in-line with the rest of the LGBT community, apart from U.K. France did this recently, and outright majority of government members voted to ban. There is also a parliamentary petition supporting the ban for Trans folk if anyone is a supporter of that. There are allies here no doubt. You don’t necessarily have to be an “admirer” to support human rights. https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/613556 Well done Kal! , and thank you for also sharing the link to petition. A far more useful approach which will hopefully encourage those who haven’t signed to at least look into it.
Perhaps if the OP had only been more articulate in his approach this would have been a much more informative, supportive and positive thread
Thank you. I wanted to help find information to share to help gain insights collectively, rather then people voicing opinions for the sake of it (we all like to do that here), and hopefully avoid message ping pong with baseless statements.
Hopefully we can get back to point.
Think OP's heart was in the right place though.
Can't say the same for some peoples brain..."Say's the Manchild | |||
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"It's a disgrace that the UK government has excluded the trans community from the ban on the nasty practice of Conversion Therapy. Remember there is a T that goes with LGB. I wonder how many of you "trans" admirers on here will make contact with their MP to demand safety and respect for trans people and include them in the ban ! It's a shame that your post has been presented the way it has. The information is good to know and will allow people to decide if they want to act on it. The pre emptive passive aggressive outrage will likely mean the point is lessened. Shame. You do realise that Conversion Therapy is a form of torture ! It needs discussion and if it can't be discussed or questioned amongst a group of people who promote non judgement then where can it be ! If you enjoy the company if a trans person then surely you wouldn't want them to be tortured by the state or church Its also not mandatory, its completely voluntary. If people want that extreme therapy to potentially help with their gender dysmorphia condition than whats wrong with that? Those that "want" it do so because society makes them feel more than just ashamed. They do so because they are essentially on the edge of suicide from how others are making them feel, a last resort. More often than not its their own families thst pressure them in to doing it because they are viewed as "wrong" and mentally unstable. If it were more widely accepted in society you can guarantee nobody would be wanting to to go through it. Maybe standard counselling to understand what they are going through, but actual conversation therapy, there would be zero volunteers, especially if they knew full well what it involved. " That's so very sad to read but true! My trans daughter considered suicide she told me and used to cut herself! Before she came out! I was 100% supportive of her alot of her online trans friends parents were not! Happy to say she is now a happy gourgeous young lady now! Can't belive familys would make their child feel bad about who they are! That said one of her sisters who was 15 I think at the time was ashamed of her still so to a degree which saddens me x | |||
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"You do realise that Conversion Therapy is a form of torture ! I've not read up on trans conversion therapy, but if it's anything like gay conversion therapy it just involves a lot of praying and being told to 'think good thoughts'. Not fun, and not useful, but also not particularly unpleasant. What happens in trans conversion therapy that you consider to be 'torture'? Perhaps it might be worth reading a bit… In some places they do this… “” physical ‘aversion therapy’, where the person is simultaneously subjected to a distressing sensation and a stimulus they associate with their sexuality or gender identity. Torture is also used, including so-called corrective r@pe. “”" Corrective r@pe? This actually happens in the UK?  | |||
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"I've been here before." Who were you? Joan of Arc? Henry the VIII? Peace. | |||
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"Thank you for discussing this issue. Some posts have been very informative, some compassionate and others where people seriously need to take a long look at themself. I'd encourage signing the petition if you can or write to your MP. As for those individuals who think it's ok to send private abusive messages whilst not having the courage to comment in the forum, you have been reported to the moderators and a few screen shots taken as two in particular border on being hate crimes. Peace." I pretty much disagree agree with you to be fair but private messages being nasty is out of order. Hopefully admin sorts it out | |||
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"Al alternative viewpoint is discussed by Sarah Philimore and Dennis Kavanagh on YouTube recently. Have a watch." That video puts the point that a badly worded law might prevent someone councelling a child that feels they are trans, and says that that would be bad as most of those children might grow up to be well adjusted gay people. I'm summarising it because it's a clip from GB News, so some people will refuse to watch it. | |||
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"Thank you for discussing this issue. Some posts have been very informative, some compassionate and others where people seriously need to take a long look at themself. I'd encourage signing the petition if you can or write to your MP. As for those individuals who think it's ok to send private abusive messages whilst not having the courage to comment in the forum, you have been reported to the moderators and a few screen shots taken as two in particular border on being hate crimes. Peace." Good! That's what's needed! I've had same in past from a couple of individuals on this post! They are just nasty cowards! I allways say if u gonna say something (would rather some keep their vile comments to them selves) at least have the guts to post it on the forum post! | |||
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"Al alternative viewpoint is discussed by Sarah Philimore and Dennis Kavanagh on YouTube recently. Have a watch. That video puts the point that a badly worded law might prevent someone councelling a child that feels they are trans, and says that that would be bad as most of those children might grow up to be well adjusted gay people. I'm summarising it because it's a clip from GB News, so some people will refuse to watch it."
Not necessarily a fan of GB news. They spout a lot of shite but I like the interviewer, Andrew Doyle. A gay man....so worth listening to with regards to conversion therapy. | |||
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"Al alternative viewpoint is discussed by Sarah Philimore and Dennis Kavanagh on YouTube recently. Have a watch. That video puts the point that a badly worded law might prevent someone councelling a child that feels they are trans, and says that that would be bad as most of those children might grow up to be well adjusted gay people. I'm summarising it because it's a clip from GB News, so some people will refuse to watch it.
Not necessarily a fan of GB news. They spout a lot of shite but I like the interviewer, Andrew Doyle. A gay man....so worth listening to with regards to conversion therapy."my experience gay men trend to be transphobic | |||
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"Al alternative viewpoint is discussed by Sarah Philimore and Dennis Kavanagh on YouTube recently. Have a watch. That video puts the point that a badly worded law might prevent someone councelling a child that feels they are trans, and says that that would be bad as most of those children might grow up to be well adjusted gay people. I'm summarising it because it's a clip from GB News, so some people will refuse to watch it.
Not necessarily a fan of GB news. They spout a lot of shite but I like the interviewer, Andrew Doyle. A gay man....so worth listening to with regards to conversion therapy. my experience gay men trend to be transphobic "I'm sorry to hear you feel that way. I'm sure the majority of gay men are supportive of trans issues but you'll always get a few bad apples in a barrel. | |||
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"Corrective r@pe? This actually happens in the UK? "Not as far as I can see. Wikipedia states that it has happened in the UK but their reference is to a BBC News article that quotes a government report as saying that conversation therapy "can range from pseudo-psychological treatments to, in extreme cases, surgical interventions and 'corrective' r@pe". However the news article is from 2018 and is talking about gay conversion therapy. I can't find any other sites that say it has happened in the UK. | |||
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"Al alternative viewpoint is discussed by Sarah Philimore and Dennis Kavanagh on YouTube recently. Have a watch. That video puts the point that a badly worded law might prevent someone councelling a child that feels they are trans, and says that that would be bad as most of those children might grow up to be well adjusted gay people. I'm summarising it because it's a clip from GB News, so some people will refuse to watch it.
Not necessarily a fan of GB news. They spout a lot of shite but I like the interviewer, Andrew Doyle. A gay man....so worth listening to with regards to conversion therapy. my experience gay men trend to be transphobic "Andrew Doyle isn't. He's repeatedly said he is in support of trans rights but not at the cost of everyone else's and at the cost of open and honest debate. | |||
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"Al alternative viewpoint is discussed by Sarah Philimore and Dennis Kavanagh on YouTube recently. Have a watch. That video puts the point that a badly worded law might prevent someone councelling a child that feels they are trans, and says that that would be bad as most of those children might grow up to be well adjusted gay people. I'm summarising it because it's a clip from GB News, so some people will refuse to watch it.
Not necessarily a fan of GB news. They spout a lot of shite but I like the interviewer, Andrew Doyle. A gay man....so worth listening to with regards to conversion therapy. my experience gay men trend to be transphobic
Andrew Doyle isn't. He's repeatedly said he is in support of trans rights but not at the cost of everyone else's and at the cost of open and honest debate. "I like him. I follow him on Twitter and I've not seen him be transphobic but I have seen him called transphobic. FWIW. Did he also invite someone on to talk about conversion therapy from the trans perspective though? Because Sarah Phillimore and Dennis Kavanaugh are both gender critical. | |||
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"Al alternative viewpoint is discussed by Sarah Philimore and Dennis Kavanagh on YouTube recently. Have a watch. That video puts the point that a badly worded law might prevent someone councelling a child that feels they are trans, and says that that would be bad as most of those children might grow up to be well adjusted gay people. I'm summarising it because it's a clip from GB News, so some people will refuse to watch it.
Not necessarily a fan of GB news. They spout a lot of shite but I like the interviewer, Andrew Doyle. A gay man....so worth listening to with regards to conversion therapy. my experience gay men trend to be transphobic
Andrew Doyle isn't. He's repeatedly said he is in support of trans rights but not at the cost of everyone else's and at the cost of open and honest debate.
I like him. I follow him on Twitter and I've not seen him be transphobic but I have seen him called transphobic. FWIW. Did he also invite someone on to talk about conversion therapy from the trans perspective though? Because Sarah Phillimore and Dennis Kavanaugh are both gender critical. "Not in that particular debate. Pretty sure he's interviewed Trans people though in the past. | |||
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"It's a disgrace that the UK government has excluded the trans community from the ban on the nasty practice of Conversion Therapy. Remember there is a T that goes with LGB. I wonder how many of you "trans" admirers on here will make contact with their MP to demand safety and respect for trans people and include them in the ban ! It's a shame that your post has been presented the way it has. The information is good to know and will allow people to decide if they want to act on it. The pre emptive passive aggressive outrage will likely mean the point is lessened. Shame. You do realise that Conversion Therapy is a form of torture ! It needs discussion and if it can't be discussed or questioned amongst a group of people who promote non judgement then where can it be ! If you enjoy the company if a trans person then surely you wouldn't want them to be tortured by the state or church And you missed the point of what they are saying. Enlighten me then. You came at the topic in an aggressive and condescending manner. Very “pointing your finger” at people That’s gonna turn people off from your post and the message For example, I’m actually pro-conversion therapy now purely because your post annoyed me I think when it comes to torturing people I have the right to be angry and aggressive. If people take offence and are so shallow they can't put human rights before ego then that's their outlook, not mine." Not all conversion therapy is torture. My question to you is that is someone wants to seek help for the feelings that they have feel wrong to them personally where do you go? It is now illegal for anyone to offer any advice as it might be seen as therapy | |||
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"It's a disgrace that the UK government has excluded the trans community from the ban on the nasty practice of Conversion Therapy. Remember there is a T that goes with LGB. I wonder how many of you "trans" admirers on here will make contact with their MP to demand safety and respect for trans people and include them in the ban !" Why was it blocked in that particular bill? Is there not new legislation following due process which addresses this? | |||
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"It's a disgrace that the UK government has excluded the trans community from the ban on the nasty practice of Conversion Therapy. Remember there is a T that goes with LGB. I wonder how many of you "trans" admirers on here will make contact with their MP to demand safety and respect for trans people and include them in the ban ! It's a shame that your post has been presented the way it has. The information is good to know and will allow people to decide if they want to act on it. The pre emptive passive aggressive outrage will likely mean the point is lessened. Shame. You do realise that Conversion Therapy is a form of torture ! It needs discussion and if it can't be discussed or questioned amongst a group of people who promote non judgement then where can it be ! If you enjoy the company if a trans person then surely you wouldn't want them to be tortured by the state or church And you missed the point of what they are saying. Enlighten me then. You came at the topic in an aggressive and condescending manner. Very “pointing your finger” at people That’s gonna turn people off from your post and the message For example, I’m actually pro-conversion therapy now purely because your post annoyed me I think when it comes to torturing people I have the right to be angry and aggressive. If people take offence and are so shallow they can't put human rights before ego then that's their outlook, not mine. Not all conversion therapy is torture. My question to you is that is someone wants to seek help for the feelings that they have feel wrong to them personally where do you go? It is now illegal for anyone to offer any advice as it might be seen as therapy" This is simply not true. There are plenty of lgbt organisations that offer specialised support and mainstream conventional talking therapies etc are perfectly free to explore someone's sexuality and identity with them. Conversion therapy has the specific a aim of suppressing, changing or curing. | |||
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"Al alternative viewpoint is discussed by Sarah Philimore and Dennis Kavanagh on YouTube recently. Have a watch. That video puts the point that a badly worded law might prevent someone councelling a child that feels they are trans, and says that that would be bad as most of those children might grow up to be well adjusted gay people. I'm summarising it because it's a clip from GB News, so some people will refuse to watch it.
Not necessarily a fan of GB news. They spout a lot of shite but I like the interviewer, Andrew Doyle. A gay man....so worth listening to with regards to conversion therapy. my experience gay men trend to be transphobic
Andrew Doyle isn't. He's repeatedly said he is in support of trans rights but not at the cost of everyone else's and at the cost of open and honest debate.
I like him. I follow him on Twitter and I've not seen him be transphobic but I have seen him called transphobic. FWIW. Did he also invite someone on to talk about conversion therapy from the trans perspective though? Because Sarah Phillimore and Dennis Kavanaugh are both gender critical.
Not in that particular debate. Pretty sure he's interviewed Trans people though in the past."Yes he definitely has. I guess I was curious why he didn't do both sides for that debate. I wonder if people refused to appear with GC people. | |||
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"It's a disgrace that the UK government has excluded the trans community from the ban on the nasty practice of Conversion Therapy. Remember there is a T that goes with LGB. I wonder how many of you "trans" admirers on here will make contact with their MP to demand safety and respect for trans people and include them in the ban ! Why was it blocked in that particular bill? Is there not new legislation following due process which addresses this? " I've read around this a bit and it seems to be that Trans conversion therapy was not defined at all in the legislation. If such a broad brush was used - would that mean that ordinary talking therapies might also be banned? Anything that isn't 100% affirmation? | |||
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"The bill outlined: In this Act, "conversion therapy" is any practice aimed at a person or group of people which demonstrates an assumption that any sexual orientation or gender identity is inherently preferable and which has the predetermined purpose of attempting to— (a) change a person’s sexual orientation or gender identity, or (b) suppress a person’s expression of sexual orientation or gender identity. " Yes interesting to see... There's not a lot of Content.. But if you want to.. Here's the link to the bill and where its at in the process... https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/2939 | |||
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"It's a disgrace that the UK government has excluded the trans community from the ban on the nasty practice of Conversion Therapy. Remember there is a T that goes with LGB. I wonder how many of you "trans" admirers on here will make contact with their MP to demand safety and respect for trans people and include them in the ban ! It's a shame that your post has been presented the way it has. The information is good to know and will allow people to decide if they want to act on it. The pre emptive passive aggressive outrage will likely mean the point is lessened. Shame. You do realise that Conversion Therapy is a form of torture ! It needs discussion and if it can't be discussed or questioned amongst a group of people who promote non judgement then where can it be ! If you enjoy the company if a trans person then surely you wouldn't want them to be tortured by the state or church And you missed the point of what they are saying. Enlighten me then. You came at the topic in an aggressive and condescending manner. Very “pointing your finger” at people That’s gonna turn people off from your post and the message For example, I’m actually pro-conversion therapy now purely because your post annoyed me I think when it comes to torturing people I have the right to be angry and aggressive. If people take offence and are so shallow they can't put human rights before ego then that's their outlook, not mine. Not all conversion therapy is torture. My question to you is that is someone wants to seek help for the feelings that they have feel wrong to them personally where do you go? It is now illegal for anyone to offer any advice as it might be seen as therapy This is simply not true. There are plenty of lgbt organisations that offer specialised support and mainstream conventional talking therapies etc are perfectly free to explore someone's sexuality and identity with them. Conversion therapy has the specific a aim of suppressing, changing or curing." And if it is someone’s wish to be changed? | |||
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" And if it is someone’s wish to be changed? " Then they should be provided appropriate counselling and guidance to determine why it is they feel they wish to be changed. sexuality and gender identity are not changeable. it's like asking what you should do if a black person said they wanted to be white. | |||
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" And if it is someone’s wish to be changed? Then they should be provided appropriate counselling and guidance to determine why it is they feel they wish to be changed. sexuality and gender identity are not changeable. it's like asking what you should do if a black person said they wanted to be white." My understanding of the bill which I admit is limited is right that it is protecting people for forced change but I can’t help but feel that it may also be closing the door too to help people that feel they might need it | |||
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" And if it is someone’s wish to be changed? Then they should be provided appropriate counselling and guidance to determine why it is they feel they wish to be changed. sexuality and gender identity are not changeable. it's like asking what you should do if a black person said they wanted to be white. My understanding of the bill which I admit is limited is right that it is protecting people for forced change but I can’t help but feel that it may also be closing the door too to help people that feel they might need it " Take a look at the bill. It takes less than 5 mins to read it (though not sure about understanding it) | |||
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" And if it is someone’s wish to be changed? Then they should be provided appropriate counselling and guidance to determine why it is they feel they wish to be changed. sexuality and gender identity are not changeable. it's like asking what you should do if a black person said they wanted to be white. My understanding of the bill which I admit is limited is right that it is protecting people for forced change but I can’t help but feel that it may also be closing the door too to help people that feel they might need it " i've quoted the bill above. it is outlawing conversion therapy, not therapy. there are plenty of suitably qualified and trained people who work with those who are confused or questioning and help them work through problems. None of that is changed by this ban. It's worth noting that the word therapy gives conversion therapy a status of respectability it often doesn't deserve. thiese practices are all too often admibstered by people who have a religious doctrine or imperative that underpins their beliefs around lgbtq people, and self appointed and educated counsellors who can range from experimental or long abandoned psychological practices (the royal college of psychiatry has previously apologised for its historic practice of using behavioural modificiation techniques on lgbtq people) through to pastors telling lgbtq people the way they feel is caused by sin, possession or acts of the devil. Conversion therapy doesn't work, it has been shown to le4ad to incr4eased risk of harm and suicide ideation, and trans people are twice as likely as gay people to be offered it. The idea this is protecting young people from being "trangendered" when all they are doing is exploring gender expression as part of a normal childhood is flawed and disingenuous. the bill would consider that conversion therapy too. | |||
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"Al alternative viewpoint is discussed by Sarah Philimore and Dennis Kavanagh on YouTube recently. Have a watch. That video puts the point that a badly worded law might prevent someone councelling a child that feels they are trans, and says that that would be bad as most of those children might grow up to be well adjusted gay people. I'm summarising it because it's a clip from GB News, so some people will refuse to watch it.
Not necessarily a fan of GB news. They spout a lot of shite but I like the interviewer, Andrew Doyle. A gay man....so worth listening to with regards to conversion therapy. my experience gay men trend to be transphobic
Andrew Doyle isn't. He's repeatedly said he is in support of trans rights but not at the cost of everyone else's and at the cost of open and honest debate.
I like him. I follow him on Twitter and I've not seen him be transphobic but I have seen him called transphobic. FWIW. Did he also invite someone on to talk about conversion therapy from the trans perspective though? Because Sarah Phillimore and Dennis Kavanaugh are both gender critical.
Not in that particular debate. Pretty sure he's interviewed Trans people though in the past.
Yes he definitely has. I guess I was curious why he didn't do both sides for that debate. I wonder if people refused to appear with GC people."I think that's most likely. The whole "no debate" approach. Also highlighted by the fact that someone above summarised the interview as they felt people would refuse to watch it simply because it was on GB News. | |||
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" And if it is someone’s wish to be changed? Then they should be provided appropriate counselling and guidance to determine why it is they feel they wish to be changed. sexuality and gender identity are not changeable. it's like asking what you should do if a black person said they wanted to be white. My understanding of the bill which I admit is limited is right that it is protecting people for forced change but I can’t help but feel that it may also be closing the door too to help people that feel they might need it " I kind of get where you are coming from, and it seems a general outcome of this, which research suggests it that people who go through these types of “Corrections” if you excuse the term, end up with further problems down the line in terms of negative self thoughts. As the approach is goal oriented to reach a cured or corrected status. Therefore it enforced they are wrong, they are diseased. This is what I have kinda have trouble with. Rather their feelings should be explored if a safe way, and help support the individual understand their internal thoughts so they can try to come to terms if needed and make their own decisions, which is a different kind of talking support. “conversion therapies were associated with self-reported harms among research participants who had experienced conversion therapy for sexual orientation and for gender identity – for example, negative mental health effects like depression and feeling suicidal” | |||
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"The bill outlined: In this Act, "conversion therapy" is any practice aimed at a person or group of people which demonstrates an assumption that any sexual orientation or gender identity is inherently preferable and which has the predetermined purpose of attempting to— (a) change a person’s sexual orientation or gender identity, or (b) suppress a person’s expression of sexual orientation or gender identity. " Well I can see why it's been flagged as not enough detail! That's very general. | |||
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" Well I can see why it's been flagged as not enough detail! That's very general. " It was deemed fine for LGB... | |||
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" Well I can see why it's been flagged as not enough detail! That's very general. It was deemed fine for LGB..." LBG kids won't be starting medical journeys and taking puberty blockers. The govt have stuffed up hugely promising a ban, then backtracking and then doing a u-turn without trans included. It's a mess and I can see why so many people are angry about it. Fwiw I think they should put trans back into the legislation and write it properly which is what the criticism is all about. Conversion therapy sounds horrendous and ought to be banned. But that bill is so short and has so little detail it is laughable. | |||
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"It seems people are thinking all conversation therapy to the brutal torturing kind. Its true it can be, but their are already laws to stop that kind of therapy from happening. It can also be just talking to a professional that may ask some difficult and challenge questions. I think this is the conversation therapy they are on about and want to keep in place for people with gender dysmorphia this is to help fully make sure that changing gender is the right choice for the individual. With that way of thinking i fully think it should be in place and could potentially stop someone from getting put on irreversible medication to stop the body's natural development or having irreversible surgery. " Counselling yes. Conversion no. Of course proper counselling would be useful, and I would argue necessary. But. Counselling is not conversion. | |||
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"It seems people are thinking all conversation therapy to the brutal torturing kind. Its true it can be, but their are already laws to stop that kind of therapy from happening. It can also be just talking to a professional that may ask some difficult and challenge questions. I think this is the conversation therapy they are on about and want to keep in place for people with gender dysmorphia this is to help fully make sure that changing gender is the right choice for the individual. With that way of thinking i fully think it should be in place and could potentially stop someone from getting put on irreversible medication to stop the body's natural development or having irreversible surgery. " All conversion therapy by definition sets out with the aim to change or repress someone's sexuality or gender identity and you can't. Regardless of the method used it's unethical and wrong. | |||
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"It seems people are thinking all conversation therapy to the brutal torturing kind. Its true it can be, but their are already laws to stop that kind of therapy from happening. It can also be just talking to a professional that may ask some difficult and challenge questions. I think this is the conversation therapy they are on about and want to keep in place for people with gender dysmorphia this is to help fully make sure that changing gender is the right choice for the individual. With that way of thinking i fully think it should be in place and could potentially stop someone from getting put on irreversible medication to stop the body's natural development or having irreversible surgery. Counselling yes. Conversion no. Of course proper counselling would be useful, and I would argue necessary. But. Counselling is not conversion." Yeah fair point. | |||
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"It seems people are thinking all conversation therapy to the brutal torturing kind. Its true it can be, but their are already laws to stop that kind of therapy from happening. It can also be just talking to a professional that may ask some difficult and challenge questions. I think this is the conversation therapy they are on about and want to keep in place for people with gender dysmorphia this is to help fully make sure that changing gender is the right choice for the individual. With that way of thinking i fully think it should be in place and could potentially stop someone from getting put on irreversible medication to stop the body's natural development or having irreversible surgery. All conversion therapy by definition sets out with the aim to change or repress someone's sexuality or gender identity and you can't. Regardless of the method used it's unethical and wrong. " Its a matter of opinion on if you can repress them feelings or not. Its not really 100% fact it does not work. I'm sure for some they can and have and also lived happy full-filling life's. I down really see conversion therapy as unethical or wrong after all someone has to agree to do it. the only think i find unethical and wrong about the ban is excluding trans people from the ban. I think if you are banning something ban it for everyone or just don’t bother. | |||
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"It seems people are thinking all conversation therapy to the brutal torturing kind. Its true it can be, but their are already laws to stop that kind of therapy from happening. It can also be just talking to a professional that may ask some difficult and challenge questions. I think this is the conversation therapy they are on about and want to keep in place for people with gender dysmorphia this is to help fully make sure that changing gender is the right choice for the individual. With that way of thinking i fully think it should be in place and could potentially stop someone from getting put on irreversible medication to stop the body's natural development or having irreversible surgery. All conversion therapy by definition sets out with the aim to change or repress someone's sexuality or gender identity and you can't. Regardless of the method used it's unethical and wrong. Its a matter of opinion on if you can repress them feelings or not. Its not really 100% fact it does not work. I'm sure for some they can and have and also lived happy full-filling life's. I down really see conversion therapy as unethical or wrong after all someone has to agree to do it. the only think i find unethical and wrong about the ban is excluding trans people from the ban. I think if you are banning something ban it for everyone or just don’t bother. " “” Are people forced to undergo this? LGBTIQ people are often encouraged or pressured to undergo ‘conversion therapy’ by family members. Some LGBTIQ people choose to undergo ‘conversion therapy’ themselves, which is a “manifestation of the scourge of both societal and internalised homophobia and transphobia”, according to the human rights group OutRight Action International. “” From governments own reports “” there is a growing body of quantitative evidence that exposure to conversion therapy is statistically associated with poor mental health outcomes – although care needs to be taken when making causal inferences, qualitative studies have found that those who have undergone conversion therapy attribute such feelings to the conversion therapy “” | |||
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"It seems people are thinking all conversation therapy to the brutal torturing kind. Its true it can be, but their are already laws to stop that kind of therapy from happening. It can also be just talking to a professional that may ask some difficult and challenge questions. I think this is the conversation therapy they are on about and want to keep in place for people with gender dysmorphia this is to help fully make sure that changing gender is the right choice for the individual. With that way of thinking i fully think it should be in place and could potentially stop someone from getting put on irreversible medication to stop the body's natural development or having irreversible surgery. All conversion therapy by definition sets out with the aim to change or repress someone's sexuality or gender identity and you can't. Regardless of the method used it's unethical and wrong. Its a matter of opinion on if you can repress them feelings or not. Its not really 100% fact it does not work. I'm sure for some they can and have and also lived happy full-filling life's. I down really see conversion therapy as unethical or wrong after all someone has to agree to do it. the only think i find unethical and wrong about the ban is excluding trans people from the ban. I think if you are banning something ban it for everyone or just don’t bother. " I don't understand why you're arguing for conversion therapy and insisting people should have the option when so many people have produced evidence that it's harmful. And those who do have it are pushed into it by others. ? | |||
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"It seems people are thinking all conversation therapy to the brutal torturing kind. Its true it can be, but their are already laws to stop that kind of therapy from happening. It can also be just talking to a professional that may ask some difficult and challenge questions. I think this is the conversation therapy they are on about and want to keep in place for people with gender dysmorphia this is to help fully make sure that changing gender is the right choice for the individual. With that way of thinking i fully think it should be in place and could potentially stop someone from getting put on irreversible medication to stop the body's natural development or having irreversible surgery. All conversion therapy by definition sets out with the aim to change or repress someone's sexuality or gender identity and you can't. Regardless of the method used it's unethical and wrong. Its a matter of opinion on if you can repress them feelings or not. Its not really 100% fact it does not work. I'm sure for some they can and have and also lived happy full-filling life's. I down really see conversion therapy as unethical or wrong after all someone has to agree to do it. the only think i find unethical and wrong about the ban is excluding trans people from the ban. I think if you are banning something ban it for everyone or just don’t bother. I don't understand why you're arguing for conversion therapy and insisting people should have the option when so many people have produced evidence that it's harmful. And those who do have it are pushed into it by others. ?" Some people lean on the side of ultimate freedom where they’d like to do as they please. So instead of a ban maybe more regulation is needed so it can be offered in a way that’s safe. Much like people that want all drugs to be legal. We know heroin is a problem. But ultimate freedom means my body my choice, I’ll take it if I want | |||
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"It seems people are thinking all conversation therapy to the brutal torturing kind. Its true it can be, but their are already laws to stop that kind of therapy from happening. It can also be just talking to a professional that may ask some difficult and challenge questions. I think this is the conversation therapy they are on about and want to keep in place for people with gender dysmorphia this is to help fully make sure that changing gender is the right choice for the individual. With that way of thinking i fully think it should be in place and could potentially stop someone from getting put on irreversible medication to stop the body's natural development or having irreversible surgery. All conversion therapy by definition sets out with the aim to change or repress someone's sexuality or gender identity and you can't. Regardless of the method used it's unethical and wrong. Its a matter of opinion on if you can repress them feelings or not. Its not really 100% fact it does not work. I'm sure for some they can and have and also lived happy full-filling life's. I down really see conversion therapy as unethical or wrong after all someone has to agree to do it. the only think i find unethical and wrong about the ban is excluding trans people from the ban. I think if you are banning something ban it for everyone or just don’t bother. I don't understand why you're arguing for conversion therapy and insisting people should have the option when so many people have produced evidence that it's harmful. And those who do have it are pushed into it by others. ?" Im arguing for choice. Not for conversion therapy. I am sure if i looked i could find some evidence that people have found it useful and its achieve what they wanted it to. Also i don’t fully buy into that in this day and age people are being pushed into anything. If someone is old enough, wise enough and brave enough to decide and change their gender, than they are more than capable of not being forced to do something they don’t want to. | |||
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"It seems people are thinking all conversation therapy to the brutal torturing kind. Its true it can be, but their are already laws to stop that kind of therapy from happening. It can also be just talking to a professional that may ask some difficult and challenge questions. I think this is the conversation therapy they are on about and want to keep in place for people with gender dysmorphia this is to help fully make sure that changing gender is the right choice for the individual. With that way of thinking i fully think it should be in place and could potentially stop someone from getting put on irreversible medication to stop the body's natural development or having irreversible surgery. All conversion therapy by definition sets out with the aim to change or repress someone's sexuality or gender identity and you can't. Regardless of the method used it's unethical and wrong. Its a matter of opinion on if you can repress them feelings or not. Its not really 100% fact it does not work. I'm sure for some they can and have and also lived happy full-filling life's. I down really see conversion therapy as unethical or wrong after all someone has to agree to do it. the only think i find unethical and wrong about the ban is excluding trans people from the ban. I think if you are banning something ban it for everyone or just don’t bother. I don't understand why you're arguing for conversion therapy and insisting people should have the option when so many people have produced evidence that it's harmful. And those who do have it are pushed into it by others. ? Im arguing for choice. Not for conversion therapy. I am sure if i looked i could find some evidence that people have found it useful and its achieve what they wanted it to. Also i don’t fully buy into that in this day and age people are being pushed into anything. If someone is old enough, wise enough and brave enough to decide and change their gender, than they are more than capable of not being forced to do something they don’t want to. " Do you have the same view on modern sl@very that occurs in the UK? Presumably if people are wise and old enough, they should be able to avoid being exploited by others? And if your views on modern sl@very are NOT the same, then you've just explained how it's possible for people to be coerced into conversation "therapy". It is very common in some religious cultures (and the people being subjected to it are NOT making informed decisions to attend such religious conversation. They are coerced and threatened by relatives and faith leaders). | |||
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"It seems people are thinking all conversation therapy to the brutal torturing kind. Its true it can be, but their are already laws to stop that kind of therapy from happening. It can also be just talking to a professional that may ask some difficult and challenge questions. I think this is the conversation therapy they are on about and want to keep in place for people with gender dysmorphia this is to help fully make sure that changing gender is the right choice for the individual. With that way of thinking i fully think it should be in place and could potentially stop someone from getting put on irreversible medication to stop the body's natural development or having irreversible surgery. All conversion therapy by definition sets out with the aim to change or repress someone's sexuality or gender identity and you can't. Regardless of the method used it's unethical and wrong. Its a matter of opinion on if you can repress them feelings or not. Its not really 100% fact it does not work. I'm sure for some they can and have and also lived happy full-filling life's. I down really see conversion therapy as unethical or wrong after all someone has to agree to do it. the only think i find unethical and wrong about the ban is excluding trans people from the ban. I think if you are banning something ban it for everyone or just don’t bother. I don't understand why you're arguing for conversion therapy and insisting people should have the option when so many people have produced evidence that it's harmful. And those who do have it are pushed into it by others. ? Im arguing for choice. Not for conversion therapy. I am sure if i looked i could find some evidence that people have found it useful and its achieve what they wanted it to. Also i don’t fully buy into that in this day and age people are being pushed into anything. If someone is old enough, wise enough and brave enough to decide and change their gender, than they are more than capable of not being forced to do something they don’t want to. Do you have the same view on modern sl@very that occurs in the UK? Presumably if people are wise and old enough, they should be able to avoid being exploited by others? And if your views on modern sl@very are NOT the same, then you've just explained how it's possible for people to be coerced into conversation "therapy". It is very common in some religious cultures (and the people being subjected to it are NOT making informed decisions to attend such religious conversation. They are coerced and threatened by relatives and faith leaders). " No i don’t agree in sl@very . I thought sl@very had been banned and was against the law. Are you saying that even with that ban in place it still happens. In that case surely conversion therapy will still take place despite the ban so whats even the point. It might also be the case that for some people their religious believes are more valuable to them then how they feel about their gender identity and conversion therapy may be the answer to help them suppress them feelings and life happily in their faith. Look i understand some people will be pressured into it. Im just trying to show i don’t think this is as clear cut as its wrong on all accounts and should be banned. Theres arguments on both sides and topics like this can and should be discussed. | |||
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"It seems people are thinking all conversation therapy to the brutal torturing kind. Its true it can be, but their are already laws to stop that kind of therapy from happening. It can also be just talking to a professional that may ask some difficult and challenge questions. I think this is the conversation therapy they are on about and want to keep in place for people with gender dysmorphia this is to help fully make sure that changing gender is the right choice for the individual. With that way of thinking i fully think it should be in place and could potentially stop someone from getting put on irreversible medication to stop the body's natural development or having irreversible surgery. All conversion therapy by definition sets out with the aim to change or repress someone's sexuality or gender identity and you can't. Regardless of the method used it's unethical and wrong. Its a matter of opinion on if you can repress them feelings or not. Its not really 100% fact it does not work. I'm sure for some they can and have and also lived happy full-filling life's. I down really see conversion therapy as unethical or wrong after all someone has to agree to do it. the only think i find unethical and wrong about the ban is excluding trans people from the ban. I think if you are banning something ban it for everyone or just don’t bother. I don't understand why you're arguing for conversion therapy and insisting people should have the option when so many people have produced evidence that it's harmful. And those who do have it are pushed into it by others. ? Im arguing for choice. Not for conversion therapy. I am sure if i looked i could find some evidence that people have found it useful and its achieve what they wanted it to. Also i don’t fully buy into that in this day and age people are being pushed into anything. If someone is old enough, wise enough and brave enough to decide and change their gender, than they are more than capable of not being forced to do something they don’t want to. Do you have the same view on modern sl@very that occurs in the UK? Presumably if people are wise and old enough, they should be able to avoid being exploited by others? And if your views on modern sl@very are NOT the same, then you've just explained how it's possible for people to be coerced into conversation "therapy". It is very common in some religious cultures (and the people being subjected to it are NOT making informed decisions to attend such religious conversation. They are coerced and threatened by relatives and faith leaders). No i don’t agree in sl@very . I thought sl@very had been banned and was against the law. Are you saying that even with that ban in place it still happens. In that case surely conversion therapy will still take place despite the ban so whats even the point. It might also be the case that for some people their religious believes are more valuable to them then how they feel about their gender identity and conversion therapy may be the answer to help them suppress them feelings and life happily in their faith. Look i understand some people will be pressured into it. Im just trying to show i don’t think this is as clear cut as its wrong on all accounts and should be banned. Theres arguments on both sides and topics like this can and should be discussed. " I don't mean to be rude, but are you seriously asking whether modern sl@very exists in the UK, despite it being illegal?! You know lots of things still happen, despite laws banning them? Little things like murder, r@pe etc? Yes, sl@very still happens here in the UK. My question isn't whether you agree with sl@very, but whether you apply the same logic of "but grown adults can choose what happens to them", which you apply to the issue of conversion therapy? | |||
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"It seems people are thinking all conversation therapy to the brutal torturing kind. Its true it can be, but their are already laws to stop that kind of therapy from happening. It can also be just talking to a professional that may ask some difficult and challenge questions. I think this is the conversation therapy they are on about and want to keep in place for people with gender dysmorphia this is to help fully make sure that changing gender is the right choice for the individual. With that way of thinking i fully think it should be in place and could potentially stop someone from getting put on irreversible medication to stop the body's natural development or having irreversible surgery. All conversion therapy by definition sets out with the aim to change or repress someone's sexuality or gender identity and you can't. Regardless of the method used it's unethical and wrong. Its a matter of opinion on if you can repress them feelings or not. Its not really 100% fact it does not work. I'm sure for some they can and have and also lived happy full-filling life's. I down really see conversion therapy as unethical or wrong after all someone has to agree to do it. the only think i find unethical and wrong about the ban is excluding trans people from the ban. I think if you are banning something ban it for everyone or just don’t bother. I don't understand why you're arguing for conversion therapy and insisting people should have the option when so many people have produced evidence that it's harmful. And those who do have it are pushed into it by others. ? Im arguing for choice. Not for conversion therapy. I am sure if i looked i could find some evidence that people have found it useful and its achieve what they wanted it to. Also i don’t fully buy into that in this day and age people are being pushed into anything. If someone is old enough, wise enough and brave enough to decide and change their gender, than they are more than capable of not being forced to do something they don’t want to. Do you have the same view on modern sl@very that occurs in the UK? Presumably if people are wise and old enough, they should be able to avoid being exploited by others? And if your views on modern sl@very are NOT the same, then you've just explained how it's possible for people to be coerced into conversation "therapy". It is very common in some religious cultures (and the people being subjected to it are NOT making informed decisions to attend such religious conversation. They are coerced and threatened by relatives and faith leaders). No i don’t agree in sl@very . I thought sl@very had been banned and was against the law. Are you saying that even with that ban in place it still happens. In that case surely conversion therapy will still take place despite the ban so whats even the point. It might also be the case that for some people their religious believes are more valuable to them then how they feel about their gender identity and conversion therapy may be the answer to help them suppress them feelings and life happily in their faith. Look i understand some people will be pressured into it. Im just trying to show i don’t think this is as clear cut as its wrong on all accounts and should be banned. Theres arguments on both sides and topics like this can and should be discussed. I don't mean to be rude, but are you seriously asking whether modern sl@very exists in the UK, despite it being illegal?! You know lots of things still happen, despite laws banning them? Little things like murder, r@pe etc? Yes, sl@very still happens here in the UK. My question isn't whether you agree with sl@very, but whether you apply the same logic of "but grown adults can choose what happens to them", which you apply to the issue of conversion therapy?" Yes i am not naive enough to know that a ban / law will prevent but not completely stop something from happening and am aware that people can be forced into things. The point i was making was if someone is evil enough to really force someone into unwanted therapy than they are not really going to give a shit what the law says. I just think there is a big difference between the people targeted and the methods used by sl@ave traders to force people into sl@very and the methods used by family members or faith groups on someone they know who has been brave enough to come-out as trans. I just don’t thing its as big as an issue and especially not big enough of an issue to put a ban in place on treatment that some might so desperately want and need. Maybe banning forced conversion therapy is the right thing to do, but like i said im sure there are already laws on that. | |||
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"It seems to me that the real problem here is not Conversion Therapy, it's that there exists a 'need' for it. People choose to take up Conversion Therapy because they can't cope with the guilt / disgust / self-loathing that their condition causes them. Some are pressured into Conversion Therapy because their family and friends can't cope with the shame / disgust / contempt that they feel for the person affected. It seems to me that banning Conversion Therapy isn't going to change these people's attitudes, and therefore isn't going to help anybody. Given that the best research on the subject found only limited evidence for Conversion Therapy occurring in the UK, I can't help wondering if we're all worrying over nothing." By making it illegal, it means that people who are coerced may be able to seek legal redress against the family members and others who might force conversion "therapy" upon them. At present, there's nothing in law to stop it (unless it involves violence or other actions covered elsewhere in legislation). | |||
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"7pc of lgbtq people have been offered or undergone conversion therapy. The figure is double that that in ethnic minority groups and trans people. I'd say that's common enough for legislative protection." That does not really make sense. Surely they are 2 different figures. 1 for offered and 1 for undergone. Is there a % for people forced into it. Is there a % for success rate? Where do people even get that information from im bi so part of lgbtq group yet have never been asked that question | |||
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"7pc of lgbtq people have been offered or undergone conversion therapy. The figure is double that that in ethnic minority groups and trans people." Where does that figure come from? The latest government research, "The prevalence of conversion therapy in the UK" from October 2021 (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-prevalence-of-conversion-therapy-in-the-uk/the-prevalence-of-conversion-therapy-in-the-uk) states that 2.9% have had therapy. However that is a weighted figure taken from a self-selected group, and it does not identify where the therapy took place. The likelihood is that most, if not all, of it occurred overseas. | |||
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"7pc of lgbtq people have been offered or undergone conversion therapy. The figure is double that that in ethnic minority groups and trans people. Where does that figure come from? The latest government research, "The prevalence of conversion therapy in the UK" from October 2021 (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-prevalence-of-conversion-therapy-in-the-uk/the-prevalence-of-conversion-therapy-in-the-uk) states that 2.9% have had therapy. However that is a weighted figure taken from a self-selected group, and it does not identify where the therapy took place. The likelihood is that most, if not all, of it occurred overseas." It came from the government's national lgbt survey. | |||
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"7pc of lgbtq people have been offered or undergone conversion therapy. The figure is double that that in ethnic minority groups and trans people." "Where does that figure come from?" "It came from the government's national lgbt survey." The National LGBT Survey published in June 2018 (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-lgbt-survey-summary-report) states that 2% of respondents had taken Conversion Therapy, with that figure rising to 4% for trans respondents. I don't know where you got 7% from. | |||
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"7pc of lgbtq people have been offered or undergone conversion therapy. The figure is double that that in ethnic minority groups and trans people. Where does that figure come from? It came from the government's national lgbt survey. The National LGBT Survey published in June 2018 (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-lgbt-survey-summary-report) states that 2% of respondents had taken Conversion Therapy, with that figure rising to 4% for trans respondents. I don't know where you got 7% from." It also does not say when they were offered or undertook it, for all we know it could of been the 70’s a-lot has changed since than. So i don’t think it can really be used for the debate in todays world. But it is an interesting report. I never knew existed. Thank you for posting the source.  | |||
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"7pc of lgbtq people have been offered or undergone conversion therapy. The figure is double that that in ethnic minority groups and trans people. Where does that figure come from? It came from the government's national lgbt survey. The National LGBT Survey published in June 2018 (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-lgbt-survey-summary-report) states that 2% of respondents had taken Conversion Therapy, with that figure rising to 4% for trans respondents. I don't know where you got 7% from." From the same summary report you're quoting. 5pc offered, a further 2pc had undergone. | |||
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"Where does that figure come from?" "From the same summary report you're quoting. 5pc offered, a further 2pc had undergone. " Ah! I had miss-read your original post. If you include 'offered' then 7% is correct. Sorry about that. | |||
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"It also does not say when they were offered or undertook it, for all we know it could of been the 70’s a-lot has changed since than. So i don’t think it can really be used for the debate in todays world." The detailed report has all that information, and it indeed shows that older respondents are much more likely to have undergone Conversion Therapy, so yes, this is quite likely a past problem. It also shows that ethnicity and religion are strong factors. It is quite likely that the majority of Conversion Therapy has happened abroad. Interestingly the religious group with the highest prevalence of offering Conversion Therapy is Wiccan. Who knew that they were so intolerant. | |||
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"As ever the government passes lazy legislation which tries to surf around lots of peoples viewpoints carefully. Such is democracy. In this case though I don’t think they were being deliberately cruel - I think they were being careful. There is a huge difference between the bible-bashing torture of gay conversion therapy, and the kind of therapy provided to young people presenting with gender dysphoria. Especially because this rarely comes alone, and they are likely experiencing lots of other mental health issues - it’s hard enough to be a teenager or young adult now, without the challenges of being trans. It would be awful if a law was passed which inadvertently meant that young people with mental health needs couldn’t seek and receive help. We are after all, not just gender identities. " Well said. | |||
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"Where does that figure come from? From the same summary report you're quoting. 5pc offered, a further 2pc had undergone. Ah! I had miss-read your original post. If you include 'offered' then 7% is correct. Sorry about that." I'd guess the 2pc that underwent treatment are part of the 5pc that were offered it, so the 5pc figure will be the total % | |||
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"Where does that figure come from? From the same summary report you're quoting. 5pc offered, a further 2pc had undergone. Ah! I had miss-read your original post. If you include 'offered' then 7% is correct. Sorry about that. I'd guess the 2pc that underwent treatment are part of the 5pc that were offered it, so the 5pc figure will be the total %" No it was 2% of all participants in the survey that had done it and a further 5% had been offered it. | |||
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