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"Thought I'd poke this hornet's nest just for a lark." I woke at 6:35.... Cal | |||
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"You know, up until a few months ago, I thought that "woke" meant getting high... When the Youngens were proudly declaring that they were woke, I was sitting there thinking they were boasting about doing drugs and I was disgusted. "I think a lot of people have the wrong take on what woke means. | |||
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"You know, up until a few months ago, I thought that "woke" meant getting high... When the Youngens were proudly declaring that they were woke, I was sitting there thinking they were boasting about doing drugs and I was disgusted. "It's generally bandied about as an insult aimed at anyone who thinks the planet is worth saving, or that racism is bad. Usually the people that use "woke" as an insult take that stand because they realise that those "woke" views highlight their own shortcomings. Personally, I'd say I'm not woke enough but I try to care about stuff. Cal | |||
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"The dictionary definition of woke? "alert to injustice in society, especially racism". Yes, I'm woke." Most definitely woke as so eloquently described above. Regarding being awake, up and about early morning on a Saturday .. only just dragged my sagging ass out of bed...  | |||
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"Thought I'd poke this hornet's nest just for a lark." I’m curious why you think its a hornets nest or that it would be a lark to ask people if they are woke? | |||
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"When I was in school and even uni saying things like ‘woke’ or ‘stay woke’ was said seriously amongst Black people. To see the way it’s been taken and made into an insult and also as a synonym at times for black is honestly so frustrating and upsetting. But this world is never going to change. I’m out of this thread now by the way. " Aw, Steve. | |||
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"Thought I'd poke this hornet's nest just for a lark. I’m curious why you think its a hornets nest or that it would be a lark to ask people if they are woke?" There are a lot of people on here who use it as an insult. As if not being racist is some kind of personal affront to them. Presumably the OP is hoping some of those types come on here and start ranting. | |||
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"You know, up until a few months ago, I thought that "woke" meant getting high... When the Youngens were proudly declaring that they were woke, I was sitting there thinking they were boasting about doing drugs and I was disgusted.
It's generally bandied about as an insult aimed at anyone who thinks the planet is worth saving, or that racism is bad. Usually the people that use "woke" as an insult take that stand because they realise that those "woke" views highlight their own shortcomings.
Personally, I'd say I'm not woke enough but I try to care about stuff.
Cal"Those that use “woke” as an insult also tend to use the term “snowflake” a lot…. But strangely seem to be the ones continually outraged that other people get things like equal rights and freedom from persecution. I’m woke and proud | |||
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"Yes, I just woke up " Did you wake up covered in snowflakes ? | |||
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"When I was in school and even uni saying things like ‘woke’ or ‘stay woke’ was said seriously amongst Black people. To see the way it’s been taken and made into an insult and also as a synonym at times for black is honestly so frustrating and upsetting. But this world is never going to change. I’m out of this thread now by the way. " | |||
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"If people think they're insulting me when they call me snowflake, woke, a socialist, a bleeding heart etc etc. They're wrong It does usually mean that they're losing an argument and they know it " And this  | |||
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"Yes, I just woke up Did you wake up covered in snowflakes ?" God no, I stayed well away from those  | |||
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"Yes I am. Please block me immediately if you use woke as some kind of insult. It’s not funny. " I have no need to block you because aside from this forum there is no need for us to be in contact with each other. I don't use it as an insult, just curious of different perspectives | |||
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"Thought I'd poke this hornet's nest just for a lark. I’m curious why you think its a hornets nest or that it would be a lark to ask people if they are woke?" From what I see on social media the term seems to have both positive and negative connotations, and I was curious to see the breadth of different perspectives of the good folk who post here. | |||
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"Thought I'd poke this hornet's nest just for a lark. I’m curious why you think its a hornets nest or that it would be a lark to ask people if they are woke? From what I see on social media the term seems to have both positive and negative connotations, and I was curious to see the breadth of different perspectives of the good folk who post here." I live as I live. Some people lob words like "woke" at me when I talk about how I live and what I believe. It tells me what I need to know about them. I'll just keep on keeping on. | |||
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"Thought I'd poke this hornet's nest just for a lark. I’m curious why you think its a hornets nest or that it would be a lark to ask people if they are woke? From what I see on social media the term seems to have both positive and negative connotations, and I was curious to see the breadth of different perspectives of the good folk who post here." It's only got a negative connotation for people who are threatened by non-racist folks. | |||
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"If people think they're insulting me when they call me snowflake, woke, a socialist, a bleeding heart etc etc. They're wrong It does usually mean that they're losing an argument and they know it "  | |||
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"I'm generally nice to everyone unless they're complete idiots. It makes no odds where they are from all the colour of their skin. I've never thought of myself being woke though, I thought it was a thing for youngsters. " This | |||
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"Thought I'd poke this hornet's nest just for a lark. I’m curious why you think its a hornets nest or that it would be a lark to ask people if they are woke? From what I see on social media the term seems to have both positive and negative connotations, and I was curious to see the breadth of different perspectives of the good folk who post here. It's only got a negative connotation for people who are threatened by non-racist folks." | |||
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"No idea i dont pay attention the these new words people make up for people on the internet the days of having the balls to say something to someones face seem lost " It's a popular word in papers like the Daily Mail and Express. They're not allowed to be openly racist and bigoted anymore, so they have to drop back a little and campaign against "the woke agenda" instead. | |||
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"Thought I'd poke this hornet's nest just for a lark." Is asking people if their aware of social injustice particularly racism a 'hornets nest'? And why would you ask this question 'for a lark'? | |||
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"On the subject of this post I see that Jim Davidson has announced a new "anti-woke" panel show. He's also stressed that no snowflakes will be allowed in the audience and that they can laugh about things like the good old days. Presumably this means he'll be presenting in black face and talking in an accent." Well he had to be colour prejudice on Big Break.. | |||
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"No idea i dont pay attention the these new words people make up for people on the internet the days of having the balls to say something to someones face seem lost " It's been around since the 1920s | |||
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"Thought I'd poke this hornet's nest just for a lark. Is asking people if their aware of social injustice particularly racism a 'hornets nest'? And why would you ask this question 'for a lark'? " | |||
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"Past tense of the verb to wake... We do love a good label, it's an especially good label when it causes offence whilst at the same time "oh no I meant it as a compliment"... Even better if people have to Google it to work out what it means and if they should be offended or not. It means different things to different people. So much so that it causes arguments about what it means and if it's offensive or its complimentary. Perhaps use language that is not ambiguous? And perhaps use more words. English is a beautiful language. Let's not be scared to use it properly. " Language evolves. I don't love the current usages of woke, but to pretend that language is static and that we should just ignore its evolution is not helpful. | |||
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"Past tense of the verb to wake... We do love a good label, it's an especially good label when it causes offence whilst at the same time "oh no I meant it as a compliment"... Even better if people have to Google it to work out what it means and if they should be offended or not. It means different things to different people. So much so that it causes arguments about what it means and if it's offensive or its complimentary. Perhaps use language that is not ambiguous? And perhaps use more words. English is a beautiful language. Let's not be scared to use it properly. Language evolves. I don't love the current usages of woke, but to pretend that language is static and that we should just ignore its evolution is not helpful. " Not sure where you got I'm pretending anything or that language is static or does not evolve from the above... But for the sake of clarity... Im not pretending either. Language surely is used primarily to communicate. If it does not communicate effectively and causes misunderstanding then its not helpful and we might try to express ourselves differently.? | |||
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"Past tense of the verb to wake... We do love a good label, it's an especially good label when it causes offence whilst at the same time "oh no I meant it as a compliment"... Even better if people have to Google it to work out what it means and if they should be offended or not. It means different things to different people. So much so that it causes arguments about what it means and if it's offensive or its complimentary. Perhaps use language that is not ambiguous? And perhaps use more words. English is a beautiful language. Let's not be scared to use it properly. Language evolves. I don't love the current usages of woke, but to pretend that language is static and that we should just ignore its evolution is not helpful. Not sure where you got I'm pretending anything or that language is static or does not evolve from the above... But for the sake of clarity... Im not pretending either. Language surely is used primarily to communicate. If it does not communicate effectively and causes misunderstanding then its not helpful and we might try to express ourselves differently.? " Perhaps. Or perhaps we do as we do with any other ambiguous word and glean meaning from context. (Example, his muscles had so weakened from illness he could not even bear the weight of a stuffed bear) | |||
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"I’ve been addressed on these forums as woke and as a snowflake. The former I’d agree, the latter not so much. "It tells you everything you need to know | |||
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"The dictionary definition of woke? "alert to injustice in society, especially racism". Yes, I'm woke." Ohh yes I'm definitely with u x | |||
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"The hornets are asleep as we haven't yet got a clear understanding of what the term means." "alert to injustice in society, especially racism" dictionary meaning | |||
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"I've been told I need to "wake up" by some people, well, females on dating sites that call themselves feminists. Always found them to be ignorant, arrogant, and thoroughly disgusting human beings in the way they treat people. So if that's what woke is, maybe I am "Is that all feminists? I mean, I'm a very lovely feminist. What are they telling you off about? | |||
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"I've been told I need to "wake up" by some people, well, females on dating sites that call themselves feminists. Always found them to be ignorant, arrogant, and thoroughly disgusting human beings in the way they treat people. So if that's what woke is, maybe I am "It is not. | |||
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"I've been told I need to "wake up" by some people, well, females on dating sites that call themselves feminists. Always found them to be ignorant, arrogant, and thoroughly disgusting human beings in the way they treat people. So if that's what woke is, maybe I am "Wake up and wake up sheeple are at the opposite end of the spectrum than woke | |||
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"I've been told I need to "wake up" by some people, well, females on dating sites that call themselves feminists. Always found them to be ignorant, arrogant, and thoroughly disgusting human beings in the way they treat people. So if that's what woke is, maybe I am
Is that all feminists? I mean, I'm a very lovely feminist. What are they telling you off about?"I was waiting for someone to ask. No, not at all. There have been several 'waves' of feminism and some, particularly the earlier ones, I totally agree with. I refer specifically to whatever it is about someone that makes them go round telling people to "wake up". What are they telling me off about, thinking for myself it appears. 
I'm yet to find someone like that who will actually tell me what they think... because asking the question means I "just don't get it" or "must be one of them" - wtf??? | |||
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"I've been told I need to "wake up" by some people, well, females on dating sites that call themselves feminists. Always found them to be ignorant, arrogant, and thoroughly disgusting human beings in the way they treat people. So if that's what woke is, maybe I am
Is that all feminists? I mean, I'm a very lovely feminist. What are they telling you off about?
I was waiting for someone to ask. No, not at all. There have been several 'waves' of feminism and some, particularly the earlier ones, I totally agree with. I refer specifically to whatever it is about someone that makes them go round telling people to "wake up".
What are they telling me off about, thinking for myself it appears.
I'm yet to find someone like that who will actually tell me what they think... because asking the question means I "just don't get it" or "must be one of them" - wtf???"Not familiar with this brand of feminist sorry! | |||
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"No idea i dont pay attention the these new words people make up for people on the internet the days of having the balls to say something to someones face seem lost It's been around since the 1920s" never been used in my neck of the woods iv literally never heard a person say that word live with there mouth | |||
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"I've been told I need to "wake up" by some people, well, females on dating sites that call themselves feminists. Always found them to be ignorant, arrogant, and thoroughly disgusting human beings in the way they treat people. So if that's what woke is, maybe I am
Is that all feminists? I mean, I'm a very lovely feminist. What are they telling you off about?
I was waiting for someone to ask. No, not at all. There have been several 'waves' of feminism and some, particularly the earlier ones, I totally agree with. I refer specifically to whatever it is about someone that makes them go round telling people to "wake up".
What are they telling me off about, thinking for myself it appears.
I'm yet to find someone like that who will actually tell me what they think... because asking the question means I "just don't get it" or "must be one of them" - wtf???
Not familiar with this brand of feminist sorry!"There was a thread going yesterday about "can guys be too nice" and there was general agreement that it wasn't really about guys who are nice, but needy, desperate guys saying anything to please a woman. (green arrow is your friend) It's the brand of feminism that teaches boys to become the type of guy that every woman hates 
That seems quite typical of "wokeness", it creates it's own problems. The hyper focus on race and racism makes it harder to treat people as individuals and not a skin colour, trans people are used as political weapons when I think many just want some compassion for the difficulties they're going through...
Pick any social justice problem and there will be someone who's done some research and pointed out how the woke movement is shooting itself in the foot and then blaming everyone else for it.
It's like they've gone so far left that everyone looks like they're on the right, even the moderate lefties. Basically, ISIS for liberals.
FYI, alienating large groups of young men, good recruiting strategy for terrorist organisations.
Sorry OP, what was the question again? | |||
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"I've been told I need to "wake up" by some people, well, females on dating sites that call themselves feminists. Always found them to be ignorant, arrogant, and thoroughly disgusting human beings in the way they treat people. So if that's what woke is, maybe I am
Is that all feminists? I mean, I'm a very lovely feminist. What are they telling you off about?
I was waiting for someone to ask. No, not at all. There have been several 'waves' of feminism and some, particularly the earlier ones, I totally agree with. I refer specifically to whatever it is about someone that makes them go round telling people to "wake up".
What are they telling me off about, thinking for myself it appears.
I'm yet to find someone like that who will actually tell me what they think... because asking the question means I "just don't get it" or "must be one of them" - wtf???
Not familiar with this brand of feminist sorry!
There was a thread going yesterday about "can guys be too nice" and there was general agreement that it wasn't really about guys who are nice, but needy, desperate guys saying anything to please a woman. (green arrow is your friend)
It's the brand of feminism that teaches boys to become the type of guy that every woman hates
That seems quite typical of "wokeness", it creates it's own problems. The hyper focus on race and racism makes it harder to treat people as individuals and not a skin colour, trans people are used as political weapons when I think many just want some compassion for the difficulties they're going through...
Pick any social justice problem and there will be someone who's done some research and pointed out how the woke movement is shooting itself in the foot and then blaming everyone else for it.
It's like they've gone so far left that everyone looks like they're on the right, even the moderate lefties. Basically, ISIS for liberals.
FYI, alienating large groups of young men, good recruiting strategy for terrorist organisations.
Sorry OP, what was the question again? "Yikes | |||
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"Ding ding ding. " Remember what you were saying about us all being tired? I'm out. I'm not sure I even want to pull up a chair for this one. | |||
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"Sorry OP, what was the question again?
Yikes "I'm ranting ironically, but... Search your feelings, you know it to be true | |||
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"No idea i dont pay attention the these new words people make up for people on the internet the days of having the balls to say something to someones face seem lost It's been around since the 1920snever been used in my neck of the woods iv literally never heard a person say that word live with there mouth" Agree ,in my world if people disagree with your views generally call me a cunt or wanker . | |||
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"Oh definitely I use the woman’s bathroom x " Mace, what on earth has that to do with the OP? | |||
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"Sorry OP, what was the question again?
Yikes
I'm ranting ironically, but...
Search your feelings, you know it to be true "No. No I do not. I find your views repulsive and I do not wish to subscribe to your newsletter. | |||
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"I've been told I need to "wake up" by some people, well, females on dating sites that call themselves feminists. Always found them to be ignorant, arrogant, and thoroughly disgusting human beings in the way they treat people. So if that's what woke is, maybe I am
Is that all feminists? I mean, I'm a very lovely feminist. What are they telling you off about?
I was waiting for someone to ask. No, not at all. There have been several 'waves' of feminism and some, particularly the earlier ones, I totally agree with. I refer specifically to whatever it is about someone that makes them go round telling people to "wake up".
What are they telling me off about, thinking for myself it appears.
I'm yet to find someone like that who will actually tell me what they think... because asking the question means I "just don't get it" or "must be one of them" - wtf???
Not familiar with this brand of feminist sorry!
There was a thread going yesterday about "can guys be too nice" and there was general agreement that it wasn't really about guys who are nice, but needy, desperate guys saying anything to please a woman. (green arrow is your friend)
That seems quite typical of "wokeness", it creates it's own problems. The hyper focus on race and racism makes it harder to treat people as individuals and not a skin colour, trans people are used as political weapons when I think many just want some compassion for the difficulties they're going through...
Pick any social justice problem and there will be someone who's done some research and pointed out how the woke movement is shooting itself in the foot and then blaming everyone else for it.
It's like they've gone so far left that everyone looks like they're on the right, even the moderate lefties. Basically, ISIS for liberals.
FYI, alienating large groups of young men, good recruiting strategy for terrorist organisations.
Sorry OP, what was the question again? ""It's the brand of feminism that teaches boys to become the type of guy that every woman hates " Let's break that essay down. That brand of feminism would have to exist in schools as well as parents following through with it. How does that happen in reality? I have three boys. What would I do/say to teach them to be guys that women hate? | |||
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"Yep. It's not the insult most presume it to be. " It can be. Like the old ‘PC’ different people see it differently. Personally I just like the ‘decent human being’ label myself | |||
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"Sorry OP, what was the question again?
Yikes
I'm ranting ironically, but...
Search your feelings, you know it to be true
No. No I do not. I find your views repulsive and I do not wish to subscribe to your newsletter."Why? Serious question now, because that's the typical response. You have labelled them repulsive but without reason. All my views are based on wanting to achieve the *values* of liberalism... equality of opportunity, respect for human dignity for all regardless of gender or sexual orientation. I want to prevent murder, genocide, war crimes of all sorts. This is repulsive how? Take another example: many people would argue that it's ok to be gay or bisexual, I say that people who are gay or bisexual shouldn't need my approval. That's a belief based on respect for people to make their own choices as long as it doesn't hurt others. It's not the view I'm "supposed" to have, I think it's better. It's also nowhere near the view of a homophobic that some people jump to assuming when I don't go along with the woke party line. | |||
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"Let's break that essay down. That brand of feminism would have to exist in schools as well as parents following through with it. How does that happen in reality? I have three boys. What would I do/say to teach them to be guys that women hate? " Teach them to conflate weakness with moral superiority. | |||
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"Let's break that essay down. That brand of feminism would have to exist in schools as well as parents following through with it. How does that happen in reality? I have three boys. What would I do/say to teach them to be guys that women hate? Teach them to conflate weakness with moral superiority." I thought you wanted to seriously talk about the issues. But you're just coming up with tropes. I'm prepared to thoughtfully discuss things but not in response to tropes. | |||
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"Sorry OP, what was the question again?
Yikes
I'm ranting ironically, but...
Search your feelings, you know it to be true
No. No I do not. I find your views repulsive and I do not wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Why?
Serious question now, because that's the typical response. You have labelled them repulsive but without reason.
All my views are based on wanting to achieve the *values* of liberalism... equality of opportunity, respect for human dignity for all regardless of gender or sexual orientation. I want to prevent murder, genocide, war crimes of all sorts.
This is repulsive how?
Take another example: many people would argue that it's ok to be gay or bisexual, I say that people who are gay or bisexual shouldn't need my approval. That's a belief based on respect for people to make their own choices as long as it doesn't hurt others.
It's not the view I'm "supposed" to have, I think it's better. It's also nowhere near the view of a homophobic that some people jump to assuming when I don't go along with the woke party line."That people you disagree with a) create men who are hated, and b) drive people to terrorism. Maybe people who feel driven to terrorism should exercise personal responsibility and not do that, particularly when it's driven by people trying to undo intergenerational and well documented inequality across numerous intersections. Just because you dislike something doesn't mean that it's in any way a justification for violence. In line with liberalism and the free speech which underpins it, I have my views and I've expressed them. | |||
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"So I've already tried to point out why trying to explain how something works is not in any way, shape, or form, approving of it. I find it really dishonest when people hear what they want to hear and then put that on me. Disagree, ok, but do it honestly. If you want to dismiss something I've said as a trope then you're not interested in understanding my views and having a discussion. I'm fairly sure most people I disagree with do not drive terrorism. Don't pretend that's what I said. Hope the OP enjoyed the reaction. I was trying to be good natured in knowing that this was a "take the bait" thread but am feeling that some people really are being quite underhanded now in their responses to me so will bow out and let others enjoy their good natured responses. "This is such an adorable response I'm dying  | |||
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" There was a thread going yesterday about "can guys be too nice" and there was general agreement that it wasn't really about guys who are nice, but needy, desperate guys saying anything to please a woman. (green arrow is your friend) It's the brand of feminism that teaches boys to become the type of guy that every woman hates
That seems quite typical of "wokeness", it creates it's own problems. The hyper focus on race and racism makes it harder to treat people as individuals and not a skin colour, trans people are used as political weapons when I think many just want some compassion for the difficulties they're going through...
Pick any social justice problem and there will be someone who's done some research and pointed out how the woke movement is shooting itself in the foot and then blaming everyone else for it.
"Don’t know why you’re obsessed with talking about feminism in this thread first of all. You’re the one that brought it up. Don’t know why. It wasn’t funny. And second can you clarify whether ‘The hyper focus on race and racism makes it harder to treat people as individuals and not a skin colour’ was a serious point you were making or not please? Because it’s something I’d dispute. Especially seen as the people that are ‘hyper focused’ on race are groups racialised as not white and are marginalised by global racist systems of oppression. | |||
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"I've been told I need to "wake up" by some people, well, females on dating sites that call themselves feminists. Always found them to be ignorant, arrogant, and thoroughly disgusting human beings in the way they treat people. So if that's what woke is, maybe I am
Is that all feminists? I mean, I'm a very lovely feminist. What are they telling you off about?
I was waiting for someone to ask. No, not at all. There have been several 'waves' of feminism and some, particularly the earlier ones, I totally agree with. I refer specifically to whatever it is about someone that makes them go round telling people to "wake up".
What are they telling me off about, thinking for myself it appears.
I'm yet to find someone like that who will actually tell me what they think... because asking the question means I "just don't get it" or "must be one of them" - wtf???
Not familiar with this brand of feminist sorry!
There was a thread going yesterday about "can guys be too nice" and there was general agreement that it wasn't really about guys who are nice, but needy, desperate guys saying anything to please a woman. (green arrow is your friend)
It's the brand of feminism that teaches boys to become the type of guy that every woman hates
That seems quite typical of "wokeness", it creates it's own problems. The hyper focus on race and racism makes it harder to treat people as individuals and not a skin colour, trans people are used as political weapons when I think many just want some compassion for the difficulties they're going through...
Pick any social justice problem and there will be someone who's done some research and pointed out how the woke movement is shooting itself in the foot and then blaming everyone else for it.
It's like they've gone so far left that everyone looks like they're on the right, even the moderate lefties. Basically, ISIS for liberals.
FYI, alienating large groups of young men, good recruiting strategy for terrorist organisations.
Sorry OP, what was the question again? "That's where we're at. People who aren't racist are as bad as ISIS. Amazing. | |||
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"I've been told I need to "wake up" by some people, well, females on dating sites that call themselves feminists. Always found them to be ignorant, arrogant, and thoroughly disgusting human beings in the way they treat people. So if that's what woke is, maybe I am
Is that all feminists? I mean, I'm a very lovely feminist. What are they telling you off about?
I was waiting for someone to ask. No, not at all. There have been several 'waves' of feminism and some, particularly the earlier ones, I totally agree with. I refer specifically to whatever it is about someone that makes them go round telling people to "wake up".
What are they telling me off about, thinking for myself it appears.
I'm yet to find someone like that who will actually tell me what they think... because asking the question means I "just don't get it" or "must be one of them" - wtf???
Not familiar with this brand of feminist sorry!
There was a thread going yesterday about "can guys be too nice" and there was general agreement that it wasn't really about guys who are nice, but needy, desperate guys saying anything to please a woman. (green arrow is your friend)
It's the brand of feminism that teaches boys to become the type of guy that every woman hates
That seems quite typical of "wokeness", it creates it's own problems. The hyper focus on race and racism makes it harder to treat people as individuals and not a skin colour, trans people are used as political weapons when I think many just want some compassion for the difficulties they're going through...
Pick any social justice problem and there will be someone who's done some research and pointed out how the woke movement is shooting itself in the foot and then blaming everyone else for it.
It's like they've gone so far left that everyone looks like they're on the right, even the moderate lefties. Basically, ISIS for liberals.
FYI, alienating large groups of young men, good recruiting strategy for terrorist organisations.
Sorry OP, what was the question again? "This is a new one. Non racists being compared to ISIS? | |||
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"I am a massive lefty snowflake. Anyone using "woke" as a snarl word is telling you a *lot* about themselves. " | |||
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"I've been told I need to "wake up" by some people, well, females on dating sites that call themselves feminists. Always found them to be ignorant, arrogant, and thoroughly disgusting human beings in the way they treat people. So if that's what woke is, maybe I am
Is that all feminists? I mean, I'm a very lovely feminist. What are they telling you off about?
I was waiting for someone to ask. No, not at all. There have been several 'waves' of feminism and some, particularly the earlier ones, I totally agree with. I refer specifically to whatever it is about someone that makes them go round telling people to "wake up".
What are they telling me off about, thinking for myself it appears.
I'm yet to find someone like that who will actually tell me what they think... because asking the question means I "just don't get it" or "must be one of them" - wtf???
Not familiar with this brand of feminist sorry!
There was a thread going yesterday about "can guys be too nice" and there was general agreement that it wasn't really about guys who are nice, but needy, desperate guys saying anything to please a woman. (green arrow is your friend)
It's the brand of feminism that teaches boys to become the type of guy that every woman hates
That seems quite typical of "wokeness", it creates it's own problems. The hyper focus on race and racism makes it harder to treat people as individuals and not a skin colour, trans people are used as political weapons when I think many just want some compassion for the difficulties they're going through...
Pick any social justice problem and there will be someone who's done some research and pointed out how the woke movement is shooting itself in the foot and then blaming everyone else for it.
It's like they've gone so far left that everyone looks like they're on the right, even the moderate lefties. Basically, ISIS for liberals.
FYI, alienating large groups of young men, good recruiting strategy for terrorist organisations.
Sorry OP, what was the question again? "Ahhhh, the old feminism is to blame for men trying to manipulate women chestnut. Anything other than the men themselves eh? | |||
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"As far as I can tell, "woke" means respecting other people and being considerate to them. It seems to be used as a pejorative by people who don't want to be that way. I sincerely hope I am woke. I'm sure I don't always get it right, but it is my aspiration. Luke " I think it is ultimately an aspiration rather than a status. | |||
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"Nope. I prefer the term self informed/educated. I choose to read, watch and listen to both sides of an argument. My unwillingness to blindly accept one side of things and ignore anything contrary alone precludes me from being able to use that moniker." Why would you listen to watch and read the racist's side of the argument? | |||
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"Nope. I prefer the term self informed/educated. I choose to read, watch and listen to both sides of an argument. My unwillingness to blindly accept one side of things and ignore anything contrary alone precludes me from being able to use that moniker. Why would you listen to watch and read the racist's side of the argument?" Its not your first thought that makes you a racist, it's your second, your third, and your fourth. We are at a point in society that nobody wants to listen. The smartest person in a conversation is the person who listens. When you talk about black or white, when you talk about race, when you talk about sexism, when you talk about homophobia, the most interesting perspective is to sit back and let that that person talk. There is nothing I can add to that perspective. Right now we are in a society where we can't have a conversation because nobody is willing to listen, people are just shouting. Hash tagging everything but nobody is listening What may be a reasoning or understanding to that person's view that may be able to be understood. Potentially allowing you to then provide your own understanding with your own perspective. Yes they may be shouting hate, and a lot of bollocks but you are certainly going to have more chance of gaining ground by listening than just throwing and shouting hate back at them. If they can't provide anything but hate and abuse then they have had their chance and I'm done with their attempt. | |||
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"I have a social conscience…. I value fairness, civility, mutual respect, I try to treat others in that way and hope that they treat me the same way - it doesn’t need a label - it just is what it is. That’s my 2p worth! " | |||
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"Nope. I prefer the term self informed/educated. I choose to read, watch and listen to both sides of an argument. My unwillingness to blindly accept one side of things and ignore anything contrary alone precludes me from being able to use that moniker. Why would you listen to watch and read the racist's side of the argument? Its not your first thought that makes you a racist, it's your second, your third, and your fourth. We are at a point in society that nobody wants to listen. The smartest person in a conversation is the person who listens. When you talk about black or white, when you talk about race, when you talk about sexism, when you talk about homophobia, the most interesting perspective is to sit back and let that that person talk. There is nothing I can add to that perspective. Right now we are in a society where we can't have a conversation because nobody is willing to listen, people are just shouting. Hash tagging everything but nobody is listening What may be a reasoning or understanding to that person's view that may be able to be understood. Potentially allowing you to then provide your own understanding with your own perspective. Yes they may be shouting hate, and a lot of bollocks but you are certainly going to have more chance of gaining ground by listening than just throwing and shouting hate back at them. If they can't provide anything but hate and abuse then they have had their chance and I'm done with their attempt." me Fair play to that approach. I'm too old to be arsed tolerating racists/homophobes long enough to listen to their elaborate justifications for their abhorrent points of view. | |||
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"Nope. I prefer the term self informed/educated. I choose to read, watch and listen to both sides of an argument. My unwillingness to blindly accept one side of things and ignore anything contrary alone precludes me from being able to use that moniker. Why would you listen to watch and read the racist's side of the argument? Its not your first thought that makes you a racist, it's your second, your third, and your fourth. We are at a point in society that nobody wants to listen. The smartest person in a conversation is the person who listens. When you talk about black or white, when you talk about race, when you talk about sexism, when you talk about homophobia, the most interesting perspective is to sit back and let that that person talk. There is nothing I can add to that perspective. Right now we are in a society where we can't have a conversation because nobody is willing to listen, people are just shouting. Hash tagging everything but nobody is listening What may be a reasoning or understanding to that person's view that may be able to be understood. Potentially allowing you to then provide your own understanding with your own perspective. Yes they may be shouting hate, and a lot of bollocks but you are certainly going to have more chance of gaining ground by listening than just throwing and shouting hate back at them. If they can't provide anything but hate and abuse then they have had their chance and I'm done with their attempt." | |||
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"Nope. I prefer the term self informed/educated. I choose to read, watch and listen to both sides of an argument. My unwillingness to blindly accept one side of things and ignore anything contrary alone precludes me from being able to use that moniker. Why would you listen to watch and read the racist's side of the argument? Its not your first thought that makes you a racist, it's your second, your third, and your fourth. We are at a point in society that nobody wants to listen. The smartest person in a conversation is the person who listens. When you talk about black or white, when you talk about race, when you talk about sexism, when you talk about homophobia, the most interesting perspective is to sit back and let that that person talk. There is nothing I can add to that perspective. Right now we are in a society where we can't have a conversation because nobody is willing to listen, people are just shouting. Hash tagging everything but nobody is listening What may be a reasoning or understanding to that person's view that may be able to be understood. Potentially allowing you to then provide your own understanding with your own perspective. Yes they may be shouting hate, and a lot of bollocks but you are certainly going to have more chance of gaining ground by listening than just throwing and shouting hate back at them. If they can't provide anything but hate and abuse then they have had their chance and I'm done with their attempt." Personally, especially with racism, I have no interest in being someone’s teacher and I ask why it should be my job to try and teach someone to treat me equally, You know? I actually think protecting your peace is the smarter thing to do sometimes. I hear your point though and I do agree if you do want to teach someone better, then you have to do the listening bit. Just think it’s also fair to not want to engage in conversations with people that make racist remarks. | |||
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"Nope. I prefer the term self informed/educated. I choose to read, watch and listen to both sides of an argument. My unwillingness to blindly accept one side of things and ignore anything contrary alone precludes me from being able to use that moniker. Why would you listen to watch and read the racist's side of the argument? Its not your first thought that makes you a racist, it's your second, your third, and your fourth. We are at a point in society that nobody wants to listen. The smartest person in a conversation is the person who listens. When you talk about black or white, when you talk about race, when you talk about sexism, when you talk about homophobia, the most interesting perspective is to sit back and let that that person talk. There is nothing I can add to that perspective. Right now we are in a society where we can't have a conversation because nobody is willing to listen, people are just shouting. Hash tagging everything but nobody is listening What may be a reasoning or understanding to that person's view that may be able to be understood. Potentially allowing you to then provide your own understanding with your own perspective. Yes they may be shouting hate, and a lot of bollocks but you are certainly going to have more chance of gaining ground by listening than just throwing and shouting hate back at them. If they can't provide anything but hate and abuse then they have had their chance and I'm done with their attempt." Very well said... If there were a bit more listening going on we would be better informed | |||
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"Nope. I prefer the term self informed/educated. I choose to read, watch and listen to both sides of an argument. My unwillingness to blindly accept one side of things and ignore anything contrary alone precludes me from being able to use that moniker. Why would you listen to watch and read the racist's side of the argument? Its not your first thought that makes you a racist, it's your second, your third, and your fourth. We are at a point in society that nobody wants to listen. The smartest person in a conversation is the person who listens. When you talk about black or white, when you talk about race, when you talk about sexism, when you talk about homophobia, the most interesting perspective is to sit back and let that that person talk. There is nothing I can add to that perspective. Right now we are in a society where we can't have a conversation because nobody is willing to listen, people are just shouting. Hash tagging everything but nobody is listening What may be a reasoning or understanding to that person's view that may be able to be understood. Potentially allowing you to then provide your own understanding with your own perspective. Yes they may be shouting hate, and a lot of bollocks but you are certainly going to have more chance of gaining ground by listening than just throwing and shouting hate back at them. If they can't provide anything but hate and abuse then they have had their chance and I'm done with their attempt. me Fair play to that approach. I'm too old to be arsed tolerating racists/homophobes long enough to listen to their elaborate justifications for their abhorrent points of view." And your own stubborn approach is just as bad as theirs in a way, they have very little place to be able express or question their views about race (or other things). It's just packaged as hate and the discussion is shut down by YOU when a large amount of the time it is ignorance at most and with a little effort needs nothing more than an adjustment and pointing in a new direction. | |||
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"me Fair play to that approach. I'm too old to be arsed tolerating racists/homophobes long enough to listen to their elaborate justifications for their abhorrent points of view. And your own stubborn approach is just as bad as theirs in a way, they have very little place to be able express or question their views about race (or other things). It's just packaged as hate and the discussion is shut down by YOU when a large amount of the time it is ignorance at most and with a little effort needs nothing more than an adjustment and pointing in a new direction. " To tack on to the end with that, if they are then unwilling to listen or change stance in anyway then as I said, move on and don't tolerate them. But by listening it's surprising what things may present themselves and advances can be gained. | |||
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"Nope. I prefer the term self informed/educated. I choose to read, watch and listen to both sides of an argument. My unwillingness to blindly accept one side of things and ignore anything contrary alone precludes me from being able to use that moniker. Why would you listen to watch and read the racist's side of the argument? Its not your first thought that makes you a racist, it's your second, your third, and your fourth. We are at a point in society that nobody wants to listen. The smartest person in a conversation is the person who listens. When you talk about black or white, when you talk about race, when you talk about sexism, when you talk about homophobia, the most interesting perspective is to sit back and let that that person talk. There is nothing I can add to that perspective. Right now we are in a society where we can't have a conversation because nobody is willing to listen, people are just shouting. Hash tagging everything but nobody is listening What may be a reasoning or understanding to that person's view that may be able to be understood. Potentially allowing you to then provide your own understanding with your own perspective. Yes they may be shouting hate, and a lot of bollocks but you are certainly going to have more chance of gaining ground by listening than just throwing and shouting hate back at them. If they can't provide anything but hate and abuse then they have had their chance and I'm done with their attempt. me Fair play to that approach. I'm too old to be arsed tolerating racists/homophobes long enough to listen to their elaborate justifications for their abhorrent points of view. And your own stubborn approach is just as bad as theirs in a way, they have very little place to be able express or question their views about race (or other things). It's just packaged as hate and the discussion is shut down by YOU when a large amount of the time it is ignorance at most and with a little effort needs nothing more than an adjustment and pointing in a new direction. " Steady on. Me not listening to racists and their opinions doesn't count as shutting them down. I don't think it does, and even if it did. So what? It's not my job to listen to and try to discuss these issues and change the mind of these people. | |||
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"Its not your first thought that makes you a racist, it's your second, your third, and your fourth. We are at a point in society that nobody wants to listen. The smartest person in a conversation is the person who listens. When you talk about black or white, when you talk about race, when you talk about sexism, when you talk about homophobia, the most interesting perspective is to sit back and let that that person talk. There is nothing I can add to that perspective. Right now we are in a society where we can't have a conversation because nobody is willing to listen, people are just shouting. Hash tagging everything but nobody is listening What may be a reasoning or understanding to that person's view that may be able to be understood. Potentially allowing you to then provide your own understanding with your own perspective. Yes they may be shouting hate, and a lot of bollocks but you are certainly going to have more chance of gaining ground by listening than just throwing and shouting hate back at them. If they can't provide anything but hate and abuse then they have had their chance and I'm done with their attempt. me Fair play to that approach. I'm too old to be arsed tolerating racists/homophobes long enough to listen to their elaborate justifications for their abhorrent points of view. And your own stubborn approach is just as bad as theirs in a way, they have very little place to be able express or question their views about race (or other things). It's just packaged as hate and the discussion is shut down by YOU when a large amount of the time it is ignorance at most and with a little effort needs nothing more than an adjustment and pointing in a new direction. Steady on. Me not listening to racists and their opinions doesn't count as shutting them down. I don't think it does, and even if it did. So what? It's not my job to listen to and try to discuss these issues and change the mind of these people." I didn't say shutting them down, I said the discussion. Without a discussion nothing gets resolved and the cycle of hate just continues. Who's job is it then? It is no single individuals job but we all need to take part in it. Opinions need changing, clearly and hostilities do nothing but to raise the tense level and inspire more hate on both sides. How do you expect racist's to even consider changing their mind if we don't attempt to change it. You either attempt to change it through discussion, you attempt to change it through retaliatory hate, or you sit back and do nothing as things just continue because it's "not your job". | |||
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" ‘no matter how left you are on this continuum’ there’s bound to be someone ‘further left than you’ who will treat you ‘like a Nazi’. ‘Virtue signalling is literally people saying “If I’m picking on you for this minutia, think how good I must be, think how good I am if I care about these things that don’t matter” and that’s why everything gets elevated.’ -Ricky Gervais on the “woke generation” I happen to agree… eventually the “woke” won’t be “woke” enough for the next generation… so where does that end?… it’s entirely your choice to be insulted or outraged by something… or… you can chose just not to listen? " Ricky Gervais is hardly someone worth listening to on topics like this. Besides I think it’s perfectly normal for the generation after me to learn more things about identity and issues affecting it. It’s up to me to not call them ‘too woke’ or say it’s ‘PC gone mad’ and actually learn from them. Our knowledge on things will always continue to grow, so why should I not grow with it? | |||
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" ‘no matter how left you are on this continuum’ there’s bound to be someone ‘further left than you’ who will treat you ‘like a Nazi’. ‘Virtue signalling is literally people saying “If I’m picking on you for this minutia, think how good I must be, think how good I am if I care about these things that don’t matter” and that’s why everything gets elevated.’ -Ricky Gervais on the “woke generation” I happen to agree… eventually the “woke” won’t be “woke” enough for the next generation… so where does that end?… it’s entirely your choice to be insulted or outraged by something… or… you can chose just not to listen? Ricky Gervais is hardly someone worth listening to on topics like this. Besides I think it’s perfectly normal for the generation after me to learn more things about identity and issues affecting it. It’s up to me to not call them ‘too woke’ or say it’s ‘PC gone mad’ and actually learn from them. Our knowledge on things will always continue to grow, so why should I not grow with it? " A word that in this context originally came from anti racism - no surprise RG has no understanding of it whatsoever. He’s hardly a lifelong anti racist lmao | |||
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" ‘no matter how left you are on this continuum’ there’s bound to be someone ‘further left than you’ who will treat you ‘like a Nazi’. ‘Virtue signalling is literally people saying “If I’m picking on you for this minutia, think how good I must be, think how good I am if I care about these things that don’t matter” and that’s why everything gets elevated.’ -Ricky Gervais on the “woke generation” I happen to agree… eventually the “woke” won’t be “woke” enough for the next generation… so where does that end?… it’s entirely your choice to be insulted or outraged by something… or… you can chose just not to listen? Ricky Gervais is hardly someone worth listening to on topics like this. Besides I think it’s perfectly normal for the generation after me to learn more things about identity and issues affecting it. It’s up to me to not call them ‘too woke’ or say it’s ‘PC gone mad’ and actually learn from them. Our knowledge on things will always continue to grow, so why should I not grow with it? " Yup. I listen, I try to do better, I try to help others. Uplift them. Understand the challenges they face. If people want to call me names for doing that, then I'll let them crack on with their kink. | |||
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" ‘no matter how left you are on this continuum’ there’s bound to be someone ‘further left than you’ who will treat you ‘like a Nazi’. ‘Virtue signalling is literally people saying “If I’m picking on you for this minutia, think how good I must be, think how good I am if I care about these things that don’t matter” and that’s why everything gets elevated.’ -Ricky Gervais on the “woke generation” I happen to agree… eventually the “woke” won’t be “woke” enough for the next generation… so where does that end?… it’s entirely your choice to be insulted or outraged by something… or… you can chose just not to listen? Ricky Gervais is hardly someone worth listening to on topics like this. Besides I think it’s perfectly normal for the generation after me to learn more things about identity and issues affecting it. It’s up to me to not call them ‘too woke’ or say it’s ‘PC gone mad’ and actually learn from them. Our knowledge on things will always continue to grow, so why should I not grow with it? Yup. I listen, I try to do better, I try to help others. Uplift them. Understand the challenges they face. If people want to call me names for doing that, then I'll let them crack on with their kink. " I love that even there you aren’t kink shaming. You’re so brilliant. | |||
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"Nope. I prefer the term self informed/educated. I choose to read, watch and listen to both sides of an argument. My unwillingness to blindly accept one side of things and ignore anything contrary alone precludes me from being able to use that moniker. Why would you listen to watch and read the racist's side of the argument? Its not your first thought that makes you a racist, it's your second, your third, and your fourth. We are at a point in society that nobody wants to listen. The smartest person in a conversation is the person who listens. When you talk about black or white, when you talk about race, when you talk about sexism, when you talk about homophobia, the most interesting perspective is to sit back and let that that person talk. There is nothing I can add to that perspective. Right now we are in a society where we can't have a conversation because nobody is willing to listen, people are just shouting. Hash tagging everything but nobody is listening What may be a reasoning or understanding to that person's view that may be able to be understood. Potentially allowing you to then provide your own understanding with your own perspective. Yes they may be shouting hate, and a lot of bollocks but you are certainly going to have more chance of gaining ground by listening than just throwing and shouting hate back at them. If they can't provide anything but hate and abuse then they have had their chance and I'm done with their attempt. me Fair play to that approach. I'm too old to be arsed tolerating racists/homophobes long enough to listen to their elaborate justifications for their abhorrent points of view. And your own stubborn approach is just as bad as theirs in a way, they have very little place to be able express or question their views about race (or other things). It's just packaged as hate and the discussion is shut down by YOU when a large amount of the time it is ignorance at most and with a little effort needs nothing more than an adjustment and pointing in a new direction. " Some people are open to change, definitely. Some people don't want to be pointed in a new direction though. They double down on the ignorance. | |||
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" ‘no matter how left you are on this continuum’ there’s bound to be someone ‘further left than you’ who will treat you ‘like a Nazi’. ‘Virtue signalling is literally people saying “If I’m picking on you for this minutia, think how good I must be, think how good I am if I care about these things that don’t matter” and that’s why everything gets elevated.’ -Ricky Gervais on the “woke generation” I happen to agree… eventually the “woke” won’t be “woke” enough for the next generation… so where does that end?… it’s entirely your choice to be insulted or outraged by something… or… you can chose just not to listen? Ricky Gervais is hardly someone worth listening to on topics like this. Besides I think it’s perfectly normal for the generation after me to learn more things about identity and issues affecting it. It’s up to me to not call them ‘too woke’ or say it’s ‘PC gone mad’ and actually learn from them. Our knowledge on things will always continue to grow, so why should I not grow with it? " No no you can grow with it… that’s the beauty of it!… but getting offended or wound up about people that don’t grow with it is your choice not theirs?!… you can’t blame them because you’ve chosen to be offended or take offence to something?… | |||
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"Nope. I prefer the term self informed/educated. I choose to read, watch and listen to both sides of an argument. My unwillingness to blindly accept one side of things and ignore anything contrary alone precludes me from being able to use that moniker. Why would you listen to watch and read the racist's side of the argument? Its not your first thought that makes you a racist, it's your second, your third, and your fourth. We are at a point in society that nobody wants to listen. The smartest person in a conversation is the person who listens. When you talk about black or white, when you talk about race, when you talk about sexism, when you talk about homophobia, the most interesting perspective is to sit back and let that that person talk. There is nothing I can add to that perspective. Right now we are in a society where we can't have a conversation because nobody is willing to listen, people are just shouting. Hash tagging everything but nobody is listening What may be a reasoning or understanding to that person's view that may be able to be understood. Potentially allowing you to then provide your own understanding with your own perspective. Yes they may be shouting hate, and a lot of bollocks but you are certainly going to have more chance of gaining ground by listening than just throwing and shouting hate back at them. If they can't provide anything but hate and abuse then they have had their chance and I'm done with their attempt. me Fair play to that approach. I'm too old to be arsed tolerating racists/homophobes long enough to listen to their elaborate justifications for their abhorrent points of view. And your own stubborn approach is just as bad as theirs in a way, they have very little place to be able express or question their views about race (or other things). It's just packaged as hate and the discussion is shut down by YOU when a large amount of the time it is ignorance at most and with a little effort needs nothing more than an adjustment and pointing in a new direction. Steady on. Me not listening to racists and their opinions doesn't count as shutting them down. I don't think it does, and even if it did. So what? It's not my job to listen to and try to discuss these issues and change the mind of these people." Best to just stick your fingers in your ears and shout "can't hear you can't hear you" | |||
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" ‘no matter how left you are on this continuum’ there’s bound to be someone ‘further left than you’ who will treat you ‘like a Nazi’. ‘Virtue signalling is literally people saying “If I’m picking on you for this minutia, think how good I must be, think how good I am if I care about these things that don’t matter” and that’s why everything gets elevated.’ -Ricky Gervais on the “woke generation” I happen to agree… eventually the “woke” won’t be “woke” enough for the next generation… so where does that end?… it’s entirely your choice to be insulted or outraged by something… or… you can chose just not to listen? Ricky Gervais is hardly someone worth listening to on topics like this. Besides I think it’s perfectly normal for the generation after me to learn more things about identity and issues affecting it. It’s up to me to not call them ‘too woke’ or say it’s ‘PC gone mad’ and actually learn from them. Our knowledge on things will always continue to grow, so why should I not grow with it? No no you can grow with it… that’s the beauty of it!… but getting offended or wound up about people that don’t grow with it is your choice not theirs?!… you can’t blame them because you’ve chosen to be offended or take offence to something?… " Shouldn't we all be offended by racism, sexism, homophobia and so forth? Shouldn't we all want justice in the world? That's what woke is - it's being aware of injustice. Why are people who care about that "choosing to be offended"? I think I'm choosing to focus on what's important in the world. And if more people were open to that - there would be less racism, less injustice. | |||
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"Its not your first thought that makes you a racist, it's your second, your third, and your fourth. We are at a point in society that nobody wants to listen. The smartest person in a conversation is the person who listens. When you talk about black or white, when you talk about race, when you talk about sexism, when you talk about homophobia, the most interesting perspective is to sit back and let that that person talk. There is nothing I can add to that perspective. Right now we are in a society where we can't have a conversation because nobody is willing to listen, people are just shouting. Hash tagging everything but nobody is listening What may be a reasoning or understanding to that person's view that may be able to be understood. Potentially allowing you to then provide your own understanding with your own perspective. Yes they may be shouting hate, and a lot of bollocks but you are certainly going to have more chance of gaining ground by listening than just throwing and shouting hate back at them. If they can't provide anything but hate and abuse then they have had their chance and I'm done with their attempt. me Fair play to that approach. I'm too old to be arsed tolerating racists/homophobes long enough to listen to their elaborate justifications for their abhorrent points of view. And your own stubborn approach is just as bad as theirs in a way, they have very little place to be able express or question their views about race (or other things). It's just packaged as hate and the discussion is shut down by YOU when a large amount of the time it is ignorance at most and with a little effort needs nothing more than an adjustment and pointing in a new direction. Steady on. Me not listening to racists and their opinions doesn't count as shutting them down. I don't think it does, and even if it did. So what? It's not my job to listen to and try to discuss these issues and change the mind of these people. I didn't say shutting them down, I said the discussion. Without a discussion nothing gets resolved and the cycle of hate just continues. Who's job is it then? It is no single individuals job but we all need to take part in it. Opinions need changing, clearly and hostilities do nothing but to raise the tense level and inspire more hate on both sides. How do you expect racist's to even consider changing their mind if we don't attempt to change it. You either attempt to change it through discussion, you attempt to change it through retaliatory hate, or you sit back and do nothing as things just continue because it's "not your job". " Admirable approach. But I don't see it working. I'm not saying I have the answer. Just don't see how listening to racists will help them not be racist. | |||
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"Thought I'd poke this hornet's nest just for a lark." im buzzin | |||
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"The dictionary definition of woke? "alert to injustice in society, especially racism". Yes, I'm woke." Yeah think so. Probably. But it does tend to get used in the perjerative by folk who get off on being arseholes. Using the term MSM is usually a tell, too. | |||
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"The dictionary definition of woke? "alert to injustice in society, especially racism". Yes, I'm woke. Yeah think so. Probably. But it does tend to get used in the perjerative by folk who get off on being arseholes. Using the term MSM is usually a tell, too. " Definitely has been hijacked somewhat. | |||
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"Its not your first thought that makes you a racist, it's your second, your third, and your fourth. We are at a point in society that nobody wants to listen. The smartest person in a conversation is the person who listens. When you talk about black or white, when you talk about race, when you talk about sexism, when you talk about homophobia, the most interesting perspective is to sit back and let that that person talk. There is nothing I can add to that perspective. Right now we are in a society where we can't have a conversation because nobody is willing to listen, people are just shouting. Hash tagging everything but nobody is listening What may be a reasoning or understanding to that person's view that may be able to be understood. Potentially allowing you to then provide your own understanding with your own perspective. Yes they may be shouting hate, and a lot of bollocks but you are certainly going to have more chance of gaining ground by listening than just throwing and shouting hate back at them. If they can't provide anything but hate and abuse then they have had their chance and I'm done with their attempt. me Fair play to that approach. I'm too old to be arsed tolerating racists/homophobes long enough to listen to their elaborate justifications for their abhorrent points of view. And your own stubborn approach is just as bad as theirs in a way, they have very little place to be able express or question their views about race (or other things). It's just packaged as hate and the discussion is shut down by YOU when a large amount of the time it is ignorance at most and with a little effort needs nothing more than an adjustment and pointing in a new direction. Steady on. Me not listening to racists and their opinions doesn't count as shutting them down. I don't think it does, and even if it did. So what? It's not my job to listen to and try to discuss these issues and change the mind of these people. I didn't say shutting them down, I said the discussion. Without a discussion nothing gets resolved and the cycle of hate just continues. Who's job is it then? It is no single individuals job but we all need to take part in it. Opinions need changing, clearly and hostilities do nothing but to raise the tense level and inspire more hate on both sides. How do you expect racist's to even consider changing their mind if we don't attempt to change it. You either attempt to change it through discussion, you attempt to change it through retaliatory hate, or you sit back and do nothing as things just continue because it's "not your job". Admirable approach. But I don't see it working. I'm not saying I have the answer. Just don't see how listening to racists will help them not be racist." Some people are racist through non education. We as parents are trying to educate our kids through school about racism and homophobia and other ism's, we offer both sides of the story so the kids can make up their own minds on how to tackle the issues. This is how we grow. Through education. | |||
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" ‘no matter how left you are on this continuum’ there’s bound to be someone ‘further left than you’ who will treat you ‘like a Nazi’. ‘Virtue signalling is literally people saying “If I’m picking on you for this minutia, think how good I must be, think how good I am if I care about these things that don’t matter” and that’s why everything gets elevated.’ -Ricky Gervais on the “woke generation” I happen to agree… eventually the “woke” won’t be “woke” enough for the next generation… so where does that end?… it’s entirely your choice to be insulted or outraged by something… or… you can chose just not to listen? Ricky Gervais is hardly someone worth listening to on topics like this. Besides I think it’s perfectly normal for the generation after me to learn more things about identity and issues affecting it. It’s up to me to not call them ‘too woke’ or say it’s ‘PC gone mad’ and actually learn from them. Our knowledge on things will always continue to grow, so why should I not grow with it? No no you can grow with it… that’s the beauty of it!… but getting offended or wound up about people that don’t grow with it is your choice not theirs?!… you can’t blame them because you’ve chosen to be offended or take offence to something?… Shouldn't we all be offended by racism, sexism, homophobia and so forth? Shouldn't we all want justice in the world? That's what woke is - it's being aware of injustice. Why are people who care about that "choosing to be offended"? I think I'm choosing to focus on what's important in the world. And if more people were open to that - there would be less racism, less injustice. " Why should we all be offended?... if I choose not to take offence to something then why is it someone/ some other group of people’s job to tell me I “should be taking offence”?
It’s fine for you to do you... but it’s not right to push your idealistic views on others who offer absolutely no argument either way... they simply just choose not to take offence | |||
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" ‘no matter how left you are on this continuum’ there’s bound to be someone ‘further left than you’ who will treat you ‘like a Nazi’. ‘Virtue signalling is literally people saying “If I’m picking on you for this minutia, think how good I must be, think how good I am if I care about these things that don’t matter” and that’s why everything gets elevated.’ -Ricky Gervais on the “woke generation” I happen to agree… eventually the “woke” won’t be “woke” enough for the next generation… so where does that end?… it’s entirely your choice to be insulted or outraged by something… or… you can chose just not to listen? Ricky Gervais is hardly someone worth listening to on topics like this. Besides I think it’s perfectly normal for the generation after me to learn more things about identity and issues affecting it. It’s up to me to not call them ‘too woke’ or say it’s ‘PC gone mad’ and actually learn from them. Our knowledge on things will always continue to grow, so why should I not grow with it? No no you can grow with it… that’s the beauty of it!… but getting offended or wound up about people that don’t grow with it is your choice not theirs?!… you can’t blame them because you’ve chosen to be offended or take offence to something?… Shouldn't we all be offended by racism, sexism, homophobia and so forth? Shouldn't we all want justice in the world? That's what woke is - it's being aware of injustice. Why are people who care about that "choosing to be offended"? I think I'm choosing to focus on what's important in the world. And if more people were open to that - there would be less racism, less injustice. Why should we all be offended?... if I choose not to take offence to something then why is it someone/ some other group of people’s job to tell me I “should be taking offence”?
It’s fine for you to do you... but it’s not right to push your idealistic views on others who offer absolutely no argument either way... they simply just choose not to take offence"I asked a question. You've shown your perspective quite clearly. Ok. | |||
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"The dictionary definition of woke? "alert to injustice in society, especially racism". Yes, I'm woke. Yeah think so. Probably. But it does tend to get used in the perjerative by folk who get off on being arseholes. Using the term MSM is usually a tell, too. " So much | |||
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"[Removed by poster at 11/04/22 17:24:50]" Very well said | |||
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"Its not your first thought that makes you a racist, it's your second, your third, and your fourth. We are at a point in society that nobody wants to listen. The smartest person in a conversation is the person who listens. When you talk about black or white, when you talk about race, when you talk about sexism, when you talk about homophobia, the most interesting perspective is to sit back and let that that person talk. There is nothing I can add to that perspective. Right now we are in a society where we can't have a conversation because nobody is willing to listen, people are just shouting. Hash tagging everything but nobody is listening What may be a reasoning or understanding to that person's view that may be able to be understood. Potentially allowing you to then provide your own understanding with your own perspective. Yes they may be shouting hate, and a lot of bollocks but you are certainly going to have more chance of gaining ground by listening than just throwing and shouting hate back at them. If they can't provide anything but hate and abuse then they have had their chance and I'm done with their attempt. me Fair play to that approach. I'm too old to be arsed tolerating racists/homophobes long enough to listen to their elaborate justifications for their abhorrent points of view. And your own stubborn approach is just as bad as theirs in a way, they have very little place to be able express or question their views about race (or other things). It's just packaged as hate and the discussion is shut down by YOU when a large amount of the time it is ignorance at most and with a little effort needs nothing more than an adjustment and pointing in a new direction. Steady on. Me not listening to racists and their opinions doesn't count as shutting them down. I don't think it does, and even if it did. So what? It's not my job to listen to and try to discuss these issues and change the mind of these people. I didn't say shutting them down, I said the discussion. Without a discussion nothing gets resolved and the cycle of hate just continues. Who's job is it then? It is no single individuals job but we all need to take part in it. Opinions need changing, clearly and hostilities do nothing but to raise the tense level and inspire more hate on both sides. How do you expect racist's to even consider changing their mind if we don't attempt to change it. You either attempt to change it through discussion, you attempt to change it through retaliatory hate, or you sit back and do nothing as things just continue because it's "not your job". Admirable approach. But I don't see it working. I'm not saying I have the answer. Just don't see how listening to racists will help them not be racist. Some people are racist through non education. We as parents are trying to educate our kids through school about racism and homophobia and other ism's, we offer both sides of the story so the kids can make up their own minds on how to tackle the issues. This is how we grow. Through education. " Education, and specifically educating people to think critically about what they see and hear, would solve a lot of the world's problems. | |||
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