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"Refuges for females victims of DV are already women only. It's rare if at all that men are allowed in to visit etc I don't know but I'd like to think all men ones exist too? " Talk of banning trans tho on certain circumstances | |||
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"Those places already exist...why is this news?" Because the EHRC produced new guidance this week about the interpretation of the Equality Act. | |||
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"Refuges for females victims of DV are already women only. It's rare if at all that men are allowed in to visit etc I don't know but I'd like to think all men ones exist too? Talk of banning trans tho on certain circumstances" Actually no you are wrong. Anybody who is trans that has physically transitioned will be considered female in relation to being housed in a women's refuge. Anyone who is trans but has not transitioned physically will be found alternative safe accommodation and to me that makes perfect sense and is completely reasonable. | |||
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"Refuges for females victims of DV are already women only. It's rare if at all that men are allowed in to visit etc I don't know but I'd like to think all men ones exist too? " As of 2018 there were only 20 men only places for domestic violence in the UK so no, not in any meaningful way. I actually think it's a terrible idea for two reasons. It reinforces the idea that men are the problem when that simply isn't true. Whilst roughly twice as many women report DV as men, men are only half as likely to report so the actual figures are much closer - plus that's still 600,000 or so cases of make sufferers of abuse. This narrative does nothing to done the issues whilst causing other problems. The main one (and one I find particularly egregious) is that these refuges allow children - half of whom are boys. These ate boys that have likely themselves suffered violence and at the very least witnessed their mothers suffer and are now in an environment where they are being taught that men are the problem. Just for one minute imagine being a 12 Yr old lad, having witnessed your mother being accused for years and now living in an environment where not only are there no decent male role models but you're constantly made aware that simply as a result of your gender you will grow up to be considered a person to be hidden from, to be kept away, to be shunned. When you grow up full of self loathing, insecurities and with no idea how normal men and women interact is it surprising when, in an argument with your gf, you lash out because not only is that all you've ever seen, you've been told time and again that's how all men behave. DV is a massive issue and it is absolutely true that what a lot of women suffer is disgusting but the current trend to ignore facts is doing absolutely nothing to improve the situation, it's ignoring a significant part of the problem and it's missing a massive opportunity to help prevent the cycle being passed on to another generation. Mr | |||
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"Refuges for females victims of DV are already women only. It's rare if at all that men are allowed in to visit etc I don't know but I'd like to think all men ones exist too? As of 2018 there were only 20 men only places for domestic violence in the UK so no, not in any meaningful way. I actually think it's a terrible idea for two reasons. It reinforces the idea that men are the problem when that simply isn't true. Whilst roughly twice as many women report DV as men, men are only half as likely to report so the actual figures are much closer - plus that's still 600,000 or so cases of make sufferers of abuse. This narrative does nothing to done the issues whilst causing other problems. The main one (and one I find particularly egregious) is that these refuges allow children - half of whom are boys. These ate boys that have likely themselves suffered violence and at the very least witnessed their mothers suffer and are now in an environment where they are being taught that men are the problem. Just for one minute imagine being a 12 Yr old lad, having witnessed your mother being accused for years and now living in an environment where not only are there no decent male role models but you're constantly made aware that simply as a result of your gender you will grow up to be considered a person to be hidden from, to be kept away, to be shunned. When you grow up full of self loathing, insecurities and with no idea how normal men and women interact is it surprising when, in an argument with your gf, you lash out because not only is that all you've ever seen, you've been told time and again that's how all men behave. DV is a massive issue and it is absolutely true that what a lot of women suffer is disgusting but the current trend to ignore facts is doing absolutely nothing to improve the situation, it's ignoring a significant part of the problem and it's missing a massive opportunity to help prevent the cycle being passed on to another generation. Mr" It is absolutely right that women should not have men in a women's refuge end of story and absolutely no debate is needed. Women's refuges have always been just that and there is no reason for that to change. | |||
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"Refuges for females victims of DV are already women only. It's rare if at all that men are allowed in to visit etc I don't know but I'd like to think all men ones exist too? " All men's ones? As far as I'm aware there are no men's ones. The overwhelming majority of DV is perpetrated by men, that's a fact. But DV against men does go on (I have a scar to prove it). Unfortunately, DV against men is still often treated as a joke, especially by the police. Until that attitude changes some guys will just leave incidences unreported. As for this thread, I'm assuming this is about Transgender victims of DV using the refuges? I'm not informed enough to comment on that one but I do have enormous sympathy for the Trans community and this is a very delicate and complicated issue for sure. | |||
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"Tom, honest to god, you do not want to go there.  "It's all over the news | |||
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"Refuges for females victims of DV are already women only. It's rare if at all that men are allowed in to visit etc I don't know but I'd like to think all men ones exist too? All men's ones? As far as I'm aware there are no men's ones. The overwhelming majority of DV is perpetrated by men, that's a fact. But DV against men does go on (I have a scar to prove it). Unfortunately, DV against men is still often treated as a joke, especially by the police. Until that attitude changes some guys will just leave incidences unreported. As for this thread, I'm assuming this is about Transgender victims of DV using the refuges? I'm not informed enough to comment on that one but I do have enormous sympathy for the Trans community and this is a very delicate and complicated issue for sure." I don't think there are specific men's refuges however the local authority is still under a legal obligation to find them somewhere safe to stay. | |||
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" I actually think it's a terrible idea for two reasons. It reinforces the idea that men are the problem when that simply isn't true. Mr" So who exactly is the problem when it comes to dv against women? | |||
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"Refuges for females victims of DV are already women only. It's rare if at all that men are allowed in to visit etc I don't know but I'd like to think all men ones exist too? As of 2018 there were only 20 men only places for domestic violence in the UK so no, not in any meaningful way. I actually think it's a terrible idea for two reasons. It reinforces the idea that men are the problem when that simply isn't true. Whilst roughly twice as many women report DV as men, men are only half as likely to report so the actual figures are much closer - plus that's still 600,000 or so cases of make sufferers of abuse. This narrative does nothing to done the issues whilst causing other problems. The main one (and one I find particularly egregious) is that these refuges allow children - half of whom are boys. These ate boys that have likely themselves suffered violence and at the very least witnessed their mothers suffer and are now in an environment where they are being taught that men are the problem. Just for one minute imagine being a 12 Yr old lad, having witnessed your mother being accused for years and now living in an environment where not only are there no decent male role models but you're constantly made aware that simply as a result of your gender you will grow up to be considered a person to be hidden from, to be kept away, to be shunned. When you grow up full of self loathing, insecurities and with no idea how normal men and women interact is it surprising when, in an argument with your gf, you lash out because not only is that all you've ever seen, you've been told time and again that's how all men behave. DV is a massive issue and it is absolutely true that what a lot of women suffer is disgusting but the current trend to ignore facts is doing absolutely nothing to improve the situation, it's ignoring a significant part of the problem and it's missing a massive opportunity to help prevent the cycle being passed on to another generation. Mr" Having had reason to live in a refuge with other women and their children I can tell you that they are not a male hating environment. Well not in my experience anyway. Where do you suggest the children live? That they are separated from their mothers? There is a lot of work that happens both with both the women and children to try and stop the cycle. | |||
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"There is no requirement for any medical intervention or gender conformation surgery when it comes to the rights of transwomen. Gender Reassignment is a protected characteristic under the Equality Act 2010 at the point of social transition. The new guidelines are just that : an attempt to clarify the existing position under the aforementioned act. There is no change in law or any other substantive change here. Everything is as it was. The EA was very vague about the circumstances in which transwomen could be excluded from single sex female spaces. The new guidance provides (or attempts to) more of a framework for that. In the instance of women's refuges, a permissible exception could be for example if other women in that space would feel uncomfortable at the presence of trans women. In this instance this would be upheld and alternative refuge provision would have to be provided for the trans individual(s). I understand and empathise with the desire to ensure vulnerable women are protected, but also recognise that transwomen are often very vulnerable too, with some research suggesting up to 80pc will be victims of physical, mental or sexual abuse. I'd like to see much more focus on the vetting and security at these refuges and hostels, which are all too often nowhere near as secure as they should be, as is tragically born witness by the number of murders over recent years in these spaces. " That's such a wonderful response.  | |||
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" I actually think it's a terrible idea for two reasons. It reinforces the idea that men are the problem when that simply isn't true. Mr So who exactly is the problem when it comes to dv against women?" The perpetrator, not the male population as a whole. And I say this as a survivor of DV. | |||
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" I actually think it's a terrible idea for two reasons. It reinforces the idea that men are the problem when that simply isn't true. Mr So who exactly is the problem when it comes to dv against women? The perpetrator, not the male population as a whole. And I say this as a survivor of DV." Agreed but I think we can all understand the reasons why women's refuges are female only spaces. | |||
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"Those places already exist...why is this news? Because the EHRC produced new guidance this week about the interpretation of the Equality Act. " It's always been there. It's what JK Rowling has been talking about partly. | |||
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"Those places already exist...why is this news? Because the EHRC produced new guidance this week about the interpretation of the Equality Act. It's always been there. It's what JK Rowling has been talking about partly. " The guidance was published this week. It hasn't always been there. For the first time, the issue of single sex spaces is addressed. That's why it's in the news. | |||
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"Reports that hostels for abused women could be all female only in certain circumstances.. Make sense of that one? " They should be. End of  | |||
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"Those places already exist...why is this news? Because the EHRC produced new guidance this week about the interpretation of the Equality Act. It's always been there. It's what JK Rowling has been talking about partly. The guidance was published this week. It hasn't always been there. For the first time, the issue of single sex spaces is addressed. That's why it's in the news. " There's always been an allowance to discriminate, in certain situations, on the basis of assigned gender at birth, under the Equality Act regardless whether the individual has undergone gender confirmation. One of those restricted permissable discriminations is surrounding abuse victims. Trans rights are in the news a lot, most recently because the government have chosen to enact legislation banning conversion therapy for homosexuals but not for transgender people. So there is another area of permissable discrimination in UK law. One permitting a practice which many feel is abusive. Gender and sexual orientation are both protected characteristics under the Equality act. Yet an entire group of people who identify as indeterminate in gender, they do not fit within the binary male or female have no recognition. It's a mess. I agree of course that all abuse victims should have a place they feel safe and receive the support and protection they need to recover. It's just that the press does a terribly bad job of conveying the details.and popular opinion follows popular publication. | |||
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"Non binary people are protected following case law Taylor vs JLR. Gender Reassignment is the protected characteristic, not gender." If you could legally reassign to non binary in the UK I'd agree with you  have a look at stonewall views on the gender reassignment act and tge judiciaries views on the lack of a non binary passport... | |||
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"Non binary people are protected following case law Taylor vs JLR. Gender Reassignment is the protected characteristic, not gender. If you could legally reassign to non binary in the UK I'd agree with you have a look at stonewall views on the gender reassignment act and tge judiciaries views on the lack of a non binary passport..."There's no legal reassignment requirment to any gender identity when it comes to the equality act. Passports have nothing to do with it. | |||
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"Non binary people are protected following case law Taylor vs JLR. Gender Reassignment is the protected characteristic, not gender. If you could legally reassign to non binary in the UK I'd agree with you have a look at stonewall views on the gender reassignment act and tge judiciaries views on the lack of a non binary passport...
There's no legal reassignment requirment to any gender identity when it comes to the equality act. Passports have nothing to do with it."I disagree, the British government require people to legally reassign to either male or female or stay as male or female. What you are saying is that the judiciary and the legislature are in fact discriminating openly against non binary people in contravention of the Equality act. As the legislature determine statute law and the judiciary determine common law and interpret statute I'd say that's everything to do with it. | |||
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" I actually think it's a terrible idea for two reasons. It reinforces the idea that men are the problem when that simply isn't true. Mr So who exactly is the problem when it comes to dv against women? The perpetrator, not the male population as a whole. And I say this as a survivor of DV." Thank you. Mr | |||
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" I actually think it's a terrible idea for two reasons. It reinforces the idea that men are the problem when that simply isn't true. Mr So who exactly is the problem when it comes to dv against women? The perpetrator, not the male population as a whole. And I say this as a survivor of DV." | |||
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"Why are refugees places female only? Genuine question Surely the idea is to provide a safe space for people, away from their abuser Not a safe space for women, away from men Just feels a little odd. If your a DV victim in an interracial relationship, can you request a woman’s only, whites only refugee safe space? What about if your partner was also Muslim? Could we ask for women only, white only, non Muslim spaces? I always find it odd how we pick and choose who we can discriminate and group up together against. As another poster said, it’s not the gender. It’s the person. I dunno if any other guts feel this way either. But if I was a victim of DV my only choice is to my parents. I know there very little DV safe spaces for men, and I know how incredibly hard it would be to get my case across as a male victim because female on male violence is still a joke. Sucks knowing I’d be left to fend for myself in that kinda situation " You wouldn't be left fend for yourself though because the local authority has a duty to find you somewhere safe if you are fleeing domestic violence. There is a reason that women's refuges are female only spaces and that is as it is a temporary safe haven where women and children are normally very traumatised. Most of the women and children would feel safer in an all female environment and remember women's refuges are very temporary solutions. They are initially places to escape and feel safe but also to take a breath and start the recovery process. You can discriminate in certain situations and always have been able to. For example if I as a woman wanted to advertise for a female carer I could. | |||
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"Why are refugees places female only? Genuine question Surely the idea is to provide a safe space for people, away from their abuser Not a safe space for women, away from men Just feels a little odd. If your a DV victim in an interracial relationship, can you request a woman’s only, whites only refugee safe space? What about if your partner was also Muslim? Could we ask for women only, white only, non Muslim spaces? I always find it odd how we pick and choose who we can discriminate and group up together against. As another poster said, it’s not the gender. It’s the person. I dunno if any other guts feel this way either. But if I was a victim of DV my only choice is to my parents. I know there very little DV safe spaces for men, and I know how incredibly hard it would be to get my case across as a male victim because female on male violence is still a joke. Sucks knowing I’d be left to fend for myself in that kinda situation You wouldn't be left fend for yourself though because the local authority has a duty to find you somewhere safe if you are fleeing domestic violence. There is a reason that women's refuges are female only spaces and that is as it is a temporary safe haven where women and children are normally very traumatised. Most of the women and children would feel safer in an all female environment and remember women's refuges are very temporary solutions. They are initially places to escape and feel safe but also to take a breath and start the recovery process. You can discriminate in certain situations and always have been able to. For example if I as a woman wanted to advertise for a female carer I could. " Lots of local authorities have a duty to do many things they don’t actually do sadly. Any guy that’s been a victim of DV can tell you that. I don’t feel safe in that regard. I have zero faith in the system to help or protect me in that kinda situation, no matter what the law says. And I’d imagine many men feel the same way I’d love to here some stories from guys that were victims and got help. Their story. If there is any on here? | |||
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"Why are refugees places female only? Genuine question Surely the idea is to provide a safe space for people, away from their abuser Not a safe space for women, away from men Just feels a little odd. If your a DV victim in an interracial relationship, can you request a woman’s only, whites only refugee safe space? What about if your partner was also Muslim? Could we ask for women only, white only, non Muslim spaces? I always find it odd how we pick and choose who we can discriminate and group up together against. As another poster said, it’s not the gender. It’s the person. I dunno if any other guts feel this way either. But if I was a victim of DV my only choice is to my parents. I know there very little DV safe spaces for men, and I know how incredibly hard it would be to get my case across as a male victim because female on male violence is still a joke. Sucks knowing I’d be left to fend for myself in that kinda situation You wouldn't be left fend for yourself though because the local authority has a duty to find you somewhere safe if you are fleeing domestic violence. There is a reason that women's refuges are female only spaces and that is as it is a temporary safe haven where women and children are normally very traumatised. Most of the women and children would feel safer in an all female environment and remember women's refuges are very temporary solutions. They are initially places to escape and feel safe but also to take a breath and start the recovery process. You can discriminate in certain situations and always have been able to. For example if I as a woman wanted to advertise for a female carer I could. Lots of local authorities have a duty to do many things they don’t actually do sadly. Any guy that’s been a victim of DV can tell you that. I don’t feel safe in that regard. I have zero faith in the system to help or protect me in that kinda situation, no matter what the law says. And I’d imagine many men feel the same way I’d love to here some stories from guys that were victims and got help. Their story. If there is any on here? " Why do people like you always do this though? Whenever we are talking about a woman's issue you try to make it about men. Why would you need to hear from a man about their experience in relation to an all female space? | |||
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"Why are refugees places female only? Genuine question Surely the idea is to provide a safe space for people, away from their abuser Not a safe space for women, away from men Just feels a little odd. If your a DV victim in an interracial relationship, can you request a woman’s only, whites only refugee safe space? What about if your partner was also Muslim? Could we ask for women only, white only, non Muslim spaces? I always find it odd how we pick and choose who we can discriminate and group up together against. As another poster said, it’s not the gender. It’s the person. I dunno if any other guts feel this way either. But if I was a victim of DV my only choice is to my parents. I know there very little DV safe spaces for men, and I know how incredibly hard it would be to get my case across as a male victim because female on male violence is still a joke. Sucks knowing I’d be left to fend for myself in that kinda situation " Refuges were set up initially because of lengthy campaigns by feminists starting in the 70s. Women sought help for other women who suffered DV. It's not discrimination - it's because men haven't fought for similar support for other men. | |||
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"Why are refugees places female only? Genuine question Surely the idea is to provide a safe space for people, away from their abuser Not a safe space for women, away from men Just feels a little odd. If your a DV victim in an interracial relationship, can you request a woman’s only, whites only refugee safe space? What about if your partner was also Muslim? Could we ask for women only, white only, non Muslim spaces? I always find it odd how we pick and choose who we can discriminate and group up together against. As another poster said, it’s not the gender. It’s the person. I dunno if any other guts feel this way either. But if I was a victim of DV my only choice is to my parents. I know there very little DV safe spaces for men, and I know how incredibly hard it would be to get my case across as a male victim because female on male violence is still a joke. Sucks knowing I’d be left to fend for myself in that kinda situation You wouldn't be left fend for yourself though because the local authority has a duty to find you somewhere safe if you are fleeing domestic violence. There is a reason that women's refuges are female only spaces and that is as it is a temporary safe haven where women and children are normally very traumatised. Most of the women and children would feel safer in an all female environment and remember women's refuges are very temporary solutions. They are initially places to escape and feel safe but also to take a breath and start the recovery process. You can discriminate in certain situations and always have been able to. For example if I as a woman wanted to advertise for a female carer I could. Lots of local authorities have a duty to do many things they don’t actually do sadly. Any guy that’s been a victim of DV can tell you that. I don’t feel safe in that regard. I have zero faith in the system to help or protect me in that kinda situation, no matter what the law says. And I’d imagine many men feel the same way I’d love to here some stories from guys that were victims and got help. Their story. If there is any on here? Why do people like you always do this though? Whenever we are talking about a woman's issue you try to make it about men. Why would you need to hear from a man about their experience in relation to an all female space? " Because it’s not equal so it becomes an issue to me. Is it ok if I feel the system doesn’t adequately and fairly protect me and I ask on a public forum for open discussion on stuff? Or do I need to ask you first? | |||
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"Why are refugees places female only? Genuine question Surely the idea is to provide a safe space for people, away from their abuser Not a safe space for women, away from men Just feels a little odd. If your a DV victim in an interracial relationship, can you request a woman’s only, whites only refugee safe space? What about if your partner was also Muslim? Could we ask for women only, white only, non Muslim spaces? I always find it odd how we pick and choose who we can discriminate and group up together against. As another poster said, it’s not the gender. It’s the person. I dunno if any other guts feel this way either. But if I was a victim of DV my only choice is to my parents. I know there very little DV safe spaces for men, and I know how incredibly hard it would be to get my case across as a male victim because female on male violence is still a joke. Sucks knowing I’d be left to fend for myself in that kinda situation You wouldn't be left fend for yourself though because the local authority has a duty to find you somewhere safe if you are fleeing domestic violence. There is a reason that women's refuges are female only spaces and that is as it is a temporary safe haven where women and children are normally very traumatised. Most of the women and children would feel safer in an all female environment and remember women's refuges are very temporary solutions. They are initially places to escape and feel safe but also to take a breath and start the recovery process. You can discriminate in certain situations and always have been able to. For example if I as a woman wanted to advertise for a female carer I could. Lots of local authorities have a duty to do many things they don’t actually do sadly. Any guy that’s been a victim of DV can tell you that. I don’t feel safe in that regard. I have zero faith in the system to help or protect me in that kinda situation, no matter what the law says. And I’d imagine many men feel the same way I’d love to here some stories from guys that were victims and got help. Their story. If there is any on here? Why do people like you always do this though? Whenever we are talking about a woman's issue you try to make it about men. Why would you need to hear from a man about their experience in relation to an all female space? "
And this is EXACTLY why the refuges are women only. | |||
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"Non binary people are protected following case law Taylor vs JLR. Gender Reassignment is the protected characteristic, not gender. If you could legally reassign to non binary in the UK I'd agree with you have a look at stonewall views on the gender reassignment act and tge judiciaries views on the lack of a non binary passport...
There's no legal reassignment requirment to any gender identity when it comes to the equality act. Passports have nothing to do with it.
I disagree, the British government require people to legally reassign to either male or female or stay as male or female. What you are saying is that the judiciary and the legislature are in fact discriminating openly against non binary people in contravention of the Equality act. As the legislature determine statute law and the judiciary determine common law and interpret statute I'd say that's everything to do with it. "Cannot see the relevance to the topic at hand? | |||
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"Why are refugees places female only? Genuine question Surely the idea is to provide a safe space for people, away from their abuser Not a safe space for women, away from men Just feels a little odd. If your a DV victim in an interracial relationship, can you request a woman’s only, whites only refugee safe space? What about if your partner was also Muslim? Could we ask for women only, white only, non Muslim spaces? I always find it odd how we pick and choose who we can discriminate and group up together against. As another poster said, it’s not the gender. It’s the person. I dunno if any other guts feel this way either. But if I was a victim of DV my only choice is to my parents. I know there very little DV safe spaces for men, and I know how incredibly hard it would be to get my case across as a male victim because female on male violence is still a joke. Sucks knowing I’d be left to fend for myself in that kinda situation You wouldn't be left fend for yourself though because the local authority has a duty to find you somewhere safe if you are fleeing domestic violence. There is a reason that women's refuges are female only spaces and that is as it is a temporary safe haven where women and children are normally very traumatised. Most of the women and children would feel safer in an all female environment and remember women's refuges are very temporary solutions. They are initially places to escape and feel safe but also to take a breath and start the recovery process. You can discriminate in certain situations and always have been able to. For example if I as a woman wanted to advertise for a female carer I could. Lots of local authorities have a duty to do many things they don’t actually do sadly. Any guy that’s been a victim of DV can tell you that. I don’t feel safe in that regard. I have zero faith in the system to help or protect me in that kinda situation, no matter what the law says. And I’d imagine many men feel the same way I’d love to here some stories from guys that were victims and got help. Their story. If there is any on here? Why do people like you always do this though? Whenever we are talking about a woman's issue you try to make it about men. Why would you need to hear from a man about their experience in relation to an all female space? Because it’s not equal so it becomes an issue to me. Is it ok if I feel the system doesn’t adequately and fairly protect me and I ask on a public forum for open discussion on stuff? Or do I need to ask you first? " Of course it's not equal that's because only 4.4% of all domestic violence incidents that are reported are by men. There are male only refuge spaces but are very rarely taken up. It's not an issue for you because you have been told there is support available but you just don't trust it. | |||
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"Why are refugees places female only? Genuine question Surely the idea is to provide a safe space for people, away from their abuser Not a safe space for women, away from men Just feels a little odd. If your a DV victim in an interracial relationship, can you request a woman’s only, whites only refugee safe space? What about if your partner was also Muslim? Could we ask for women only, white only, non Muslim spaces? I always find it odd how we pick and choose who we can discriminate and group up together against. As another poster said, it’s not the gender. It’s the person. I dunno if any other guts feel this way either. But if I was a victim of DV my only choice is to my parents. I know there very little DV safe spaces for men, and I know how incredibly hard it would be to get my case across as a male victim because female on male violence is still a joke. Sucks knowing I’d be left to fend for myself in that kinda situation You wouldn't be left fend for yourself though because the local authority has a duty to find you somewhere safe if you are fleeing domestic violence. There is a reason that women's refuges are female only spaces and that is as it is a temporary safe haven where women and children are normally very traumatised. Most of the women and children would feel safer in an all female environment and remember women's refuges are very temporary solutions. They are initially places to escape and feel safe but also to take a breath and start the recovery process. You can discriminate in certain situations and always have been able to. For example if I as a woman wanted to advertise for a female carer I could. Lots of local authorities have a duty to do many things they don’t actually do sadly. Any guy that’s been a victim of DV can tell you that. I don’t feel safe in that regard. I have zero faith in the system to help or protect me in that kinda situation, no matter what the law says. And I’d imagine many men feel the same way I’d love to here some stories from guys that were victims and got help. Their story. If there is any on here? Why do people like you always do this though? Whenever we are talking about a woman's issue you try to make it about men. Why would you need to hear from a man about their experience in relation to an all female space? " Because it's a public forum and people may say what they wish, as long as it doesn't break site rules. I find participation from all sides makes an interesting read. | |||
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"Why are refugees places female only? Genuine question Surely the idea is to provide a safe space for people, away from their abuser Not a safe space for women, away from men Just feels a little odd. If your a DV victim in an interracial relationship, can you request a woman’s only, whites only refugee safe space? What about if your partner was also Muslim? Could we ask for women only, white only, non Muslim spaces? I always find it odd how we pick and choose who we can discriminate and group up together against. As another poster said, it’s not the gender. It’s the person. I dunno if any other guts feel this way either. But if I was a victim of DV my only choice is to my parents. I know there very little DV safe spaces for men, and I know how incredibly hard it would be to get my case across as a male victim because female on male violence is still a joke. Sucks knowing I’d be left to fend for myself in that kinda situation You wouldn't be left fend for yourself though because the local authority has a duty to find you somewhere safe if you are fleeing domestic violence. There is a reason that women's refuges are female only spaces and that is as it is a temporary safe haven where women and children are normally very traumatised. Most of the women and children would feel safer in an all female environment and remember women's refuges are very temporary solutions. They are initially places to escape and feel safe but also to take a breath and start the recovery process. You can discriminate in certain situations and always have been able to. For example if I as a woman wanted to advertise for a female carer I could. Lots of local authorities have a duty to do many things they don’t actually do sadly. Any guy that’s been a victim of DV can tell you that. I don’t feel safe in that regard. I have zero faith in the system to help or protect me in that kinda situation, no matter what the law says. And I’d imagine many men feel the same way I’d love to here some stories from guys that were victims and got help. Their story. If there is any on here? Why do people like you always do this though? Whenever we are talking about a woman's issue you try to make it about men. Why would you need to hear from a man about their experience in relation to an all female space? Because it's a public forum and people may say what they wish, as long as it doesn't break site rules. I find participation from all sides makes an interesting read. " I'm very aware it's a public forum which is why I said what I did and it works both ways that as long as people aren't breaking the rules they can say what they want as I just did. I cannot believe this constantly happens where we talking about woman's issue and the men say but what about us. It happens all the time. It is quite obvious as to why women's refuges needs to be or female spaces. | |||
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"Why are refugees places female only? Genuine question Surely the idea is to provide a safe space for people, away from their abuser Not a safe space for women, away from men Just feels a little odd. If your a DV victim in an interracial relationship, can you request a woman’s only, whites only refugee safe space? What about if your partner was also Muslim? Could we ask for women only, white only, non Muslim spaces? I always find it odd how we pick and choose who we can discriminate and group up together against. As another poster said, it’s not the gender. It’s the person. I dunno if any other guts feel this way either. But if I was a victim of DV my only choice is to my parents. I know there very little DV safe spaces for men, and I know how incredibly hard it would be to get my case across as a male victim because female on male violence is still a joke. Sucks knowing I’d be left to fend for myself in that kinda situation You wouldn't be left fend for yourself though because the local authority has a duty to find you somewhere safe if you are fleeing domestic violence. There is a reason that women's refuges are female only spaces and that is as it is a temporary safe haven where women and children are normally very traumatised. Most of the women and children would feel safer in an all female environment and remember women's refuges are very temporary solutions. They are initially places to escape and feel safe but also to take a breath and start the recovery process. You can discriminate in certain situations and always have been able to. For example if I as a woman wanted to advertise for a female carer I could. Lots of local authorities have a duty to do many things they don’t actually do sadly. Any guy that’s been a victim of DV can tell you that. I don’t feel safe in that regard. I have zero faith in the system to help or protect me in that kinda situation, no matter what the law says. And I’d imagine many men feel the same way I’d love to here some stories from guys that were victims and got help. Their story. If there is any on here? Why do people like you always do this though? Whenever we are talking about a woman's issue you try to make it about men. Why would you need to hear from a man about their experience in relation to an all female space? Because it’s not equal so it becomes an issue to me. Is it ok if I feel the system doesn’t adequately and fairly protect me and I ask on a public forum for open discussion on stuff? Or do I need to ask you first? Of course it's not equal that's because only 4.4% of all domestic violence incidents that are reported are by men. There are male only refuge spaces but are very rarely taken up. It's not an issue for you because you have been told there is support available but you just don't trust it. " Well your free to just not reply to what I write if you don’t like it? Many people do. I’m just speaking from my experiences, my concerns and my life. Feel free to not comment | |||
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"Actually there ARE refuges for male victims of domestic violence https://www.mankind.org.uk/statistics/statistics-on-male-victims-of-domestic-abuse/ " Some very telling and interesting stats on there. There’s truly a problem that’s being swept under the rug so Thankyou for that link | |||
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"Actually there ARE refuges for male victims of domestic violence https://www.mankind.org.uk/statistics/statistics-on-male-victims-of-domestic-abuse/ Some very telling and interesting stats on there. There’s truly a problem that’s being swept under the rug so Thankyou for that link "Swept under the rug by who? | |||
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"Actually there ARE refuges for male victims of domestic violence https://www.mankind.org.uk/statistics/statistics-on-male-victims-of-domestic-abuse/ Some very telling and interesting stats on there. There’s truly a problem that’s being swept under the rug so Thankyou for that link
Swept under the rug by who? "Years and years of telling men they can’t be victims or abused and the effects of that | |||
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"Actually there ARE refuges for male victims of domestic violence https://www.mankind.org.uk/statistics/statistics-on-male-victims-of-domestic-abuse/ Some very telling and interesting stats on there. There’s truly a problem that’s being swept under the rug so Thankyou for that link "This was just published as well which is relevant. I'm mystified by DV against men is being grouped with Violence against Women and Girls. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/supporting-male-victims-of-crimes-considered-violence-against-women-and-girls | |||
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"Why are refugees places female only? Genuine question Surely the idea is to provide a safe space for people, away from their abuser Not a safe space for women, away from men Just feels a little odd. If your a DV victim in an interracial relationship, can you request a woman’s only, whites only refugee safe space? What about if your partner was also Muslim? Could we ask for women only, white only, non Muslim spaces? I always find it odd how we pick and choose who we can discriminate and group up together against. As another poster said, it’s not the gender. It’s the person. I dunno if any other guts feel this way either. But if I was a victim of DV my only choice is to my parents. I know there very little DV safe spaces for men, and I know how incredibly hard it would be to get my case across as a male victim because female on male violence is still a joke. Sucks knowing I’d be left to fend for myself in that kinda situation You wouldn't be left fend for yourself though because the local authority has a duty to find you somewhere safe if you are fleeing domestic violence. There is a reason that women's refuges are female only spaces and that is as it is a temporary safe haven where women and children are normally very traumatised. Most of the women and children would feel safer in an all female environment and remember women's refuges are very temporary solutions. They are initially places to escape and feel safe but also to take a breath and start the recovery process. You can discriminate in certain situations and always have been able to. For example if I as a woman wanted to advertise for a female carer I could. Lots of local authorities have a duty to do many things they don’t actually do sadly. Any guy that’s been a victim of DV can tell you that. I don’t feel safe in that regard. I have zero faith in the system to help or protect me in that kinda situation, no matter what the law says. And I’d imagine many men feel the same way I’d love to here some stories from guys that were victims and got help. Their story. If there is any on here? Why do people like you always do this though? Whenever we are talking about a woman's issue you try to make it about men. Why would you need to hear from a man about their experience in relation to an all female space? Because it’s not equal so it becomes an issue to me. Is it ok if I feel the system doesn’t adequately and fairly protect me and I ask on a public forum for open discussion on stuff? Or do I need to ask you first? " But this isn't about equality. It's about safety and support. Not every female issue needs a 'but what about men'. You've had first hand anecdotal evidence of why female only spaces are important when leaving abusive relationships yet you still Carp on about it not being fair. You've had people say there are men only refuges or provision in place to support male victims but not as many because the demand isn't there but you still Carp on about it not being equal. | |||
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"Wasn’t sure whether to post on this and forgive me if this opinion is unwelcome. I think women’s only spaces are vitally important and even more so in the case of refuges. I am not sure how I feel about the exclusion of trans women but as a man I wouldn’t want to undermine the experience or concern of other women who feel differently. What I will say is that spaces like these are even more vitally important given the way that gendered violence operates and reproduces itself in society. I don’t see these as man hating environments. And I think it’s important that children are with the parent they’re safe with after these situations in an environment that the parent feels safe and supported in. Also just want to say that the idea that young boys could grow up feeling guilty or hating themselves because they’re men is an oversimplification of young people developing an understanding of gender experiences and gendered violence. It’s like when we argue that we mustn’t teach empire or the idea of white privilege in case it promotes white guilt. - this last bit is just an example but hope it makes sense in relation to my post. Anyway, I hope this space is one in which women can discuss an issue to do with them without it being derailed and turned into a ‘what about the men’ or ‘not all men’ issue. Good day, my loves. "Thank you | |||
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"Why are refugees places female only? Genuine question Surely the idea is to provide a safe space for people, away from their abuser Not a safe space for women, away from men Just feels a little odd. If your a DV victim in an interracial relationship, can you request a woman’s only, whites only refugee safe space? What about if your partner was also Muslim? Could we ask for women only, white only, non Muslim spaces? I always find it odd how we pick and choose who we can discriminate and group up together against. As another poster said, it’s not the gender. It’s the person. I dunno if any other guts feel this way either. But if I was a victim of DV my only choice is to my parents. I know there very little DV safe spaces for men, and I know how incredibly hard it would be to get my case across as a male victim because female on male violence is still a joke. Sucks knowing I’d be left to fend for myself in that kinda situation You wouldn't be left fend for yourself though because the local authority has a duty to find you somewhere safe if you are fleeing domestic violence. There is a reason that women's refuges are female only spaces and that is as it is a temporary safe haven where women and children are normally very traumatised. Most of the women and children would feel safer in an all female environment and remember women's refuges are very temporary solutions. They are initially places to escape and feel safe but also to take a breath and start the recovery process. You can discriminate in certain situations and always have been able to. For example if I as a woman wanted to advertise for a female carer I could. Lots of local authorities have a duty to do many things they don’t actually do sadly. Any guy that’s been a victim of DV can tell you that. I don’t feel safe in that regard. I have zero faith in the system to help or protect me in that kinda situation, no matter what the law says. And I’d imagine many men feel the same way I’d love to here some stories from guys that were victims and got help. Their story. If there is any on here? Why do people like you always do this though? Whenever we are talking about a woman's issue you try to make it about men. Why would you need to hear from a man about their experience in relation to an all female space? Because it’s not equal so it becomes an issue to me. Is it ok if I feel the system doesn’t adequately and fairly protect me and I ask on a public forum for open discussion on stuff? Or do I need to ask you first? But this isn't about equality. It's about safety and support. Not every female issue needs a 'but what about men'. You've had first hand anecdotal evidence of why female only spaces are important when leaving abusive relationships yet you still Carp on about it not being fair. You've had people say there are men only refuges or provision in place to support male victims but not as many because the demand isn't there but you still Carp on about it not being equal. " Sorry if you’ve misunderstood. I’ll explain better I didn’t say female spaces are unfair, I said I find it weird how we accept certain things. Like “I was abused by a man so no men in my space” is fine, but we wouldn’t ask for non Muslim or whites only. Just find it odd The part I find unfair is the unequal support offered to men in DV situations Sorry if you misunderstood | |||
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"Actually there ARE refuges for male victims of domestic violence https://www.mankind.org.uk/statistics/statistics-on-male-victims-of-domestic-abuse/ Some very telling and interesting stats on there. There’s truly a problem that’s being swept under the rug so Thankyou for that link
Swept under the rug by who?
Years and years of telling men they can’t be victims or abused and the effects of that "Oh ok. Most, close to all maybe even, people that support victims of DV recognise men as victims and support them getting the help and support they need. The idea that most people or media or anything pretends men cannot be victims or abused is something I dispute. And actually think is used as an argument to undermine the concerns of women as it’s always only brought up in response to women talking about their experiences. Maybe we should start a thread talking about the issues surrounding men rather than using the space about a woman’s issue to make it about men? I think if we feel passionate enough about it then why not, right? | |||
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"As long as it is just for actual women then good. Penises do not belong in refuges." I have and do work in women's refuge's. There are men who work in these places not many. I do property maintenance and the ladies totally Understand,it's all about working a certain way with respect and understanding. Certain places are very different and out of respect I will not discuss them. | |||
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"Whilst both men and women may experience incidents of inter-personal violence and abuse, women are considerably more likely to experience repeated and severe forms of abuse, including sexual violence" Yes. Agree | |||
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" The part I find unfair is the unequal support offered to men in DV situations " Campaign to change it then | |||
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"Actually there ARE refuges for male victims of domestic violence https://www.mankind.org.uk/statistics/statistics-on-male-victims-of-domestic-abuse/ Some very telling and interesting stats on there. There’s truly a problem that’s being swept under the rug so Thankyou for that link "Yes, thank you indeed. It's good to know that these days there is at least some provision for men, but let's not lose sight of the fact that women are far more likely to be victims of DV and the help available to them is woefully inadequate. As has been said, just because councils have a statutory obligation to protect people it doesn't mean that they do and to be fair to them, in these days of cuts to council budgets from central government, it could be argued that the blame for that lies elsewhere. But I'm not getting into that debate! | |||
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"Actually there ARE refuges for male victims of domestic violence https://www.mankind.org.uk/statistics/statistics-on-male-victims-of-domestic-abuse/ Some very telling and interesting stats on there. There’s truly a problem that’s being swept under the rug so Thankyou for that link
Swept under the rug by who?
Years and years of telling men they can’t be victims or abused and the effects of that
Oh ok. Most, close to all maybe even, people that support victims of DV recognise men as victims and support them getting the help and support they need. The idea that most people or media or anything pretends men cannot be victims or abused is something I dispute. And actually think is used as an argument to undermine the concerns of women as it’s always only brought up in response to women talking about their experiences. Maybe we should start a thread talking about the issues surrounding men rather than using the space about a woman’s issue to make it about men? I think if we feel passionate enough about it then why not, right? "The funny thing is, if that were the case you would also get (some!) women commenting on that saying it's worse for women. Then we are right back where we started... Right here. It is a vicious cycle as the wheel keeps turning m because some people on both sides refuse to accept its not a competition, yet both sides need to be acknowledged too. Empathy for others goes out the window when somebody relates strongly to a certain subject. | |||
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"Actually there ARE refuges for male victims of domestic violence https://www.mankind.org.uk/statistics/statistics-on-male-victims-of-domestic-abuse/ Some very telling and interesting stats on there. There’s truly a problem that’s being swept under the rug so Thankyou for that link
Swept under the rug by who?
Years and years of telling men they can’t be victims or abused and the effects of that
Oh ok. Most, close to all maybe even, people that support victims of DV recognise men as victims and support them getting the help and support they need. The idea that most people or media or anything pretends men cannot be victims or abused is something I dispute. And actually think is used as an argument to undermine the concerns of women as it’s always only brought up in response to women talking about their experiences. Maybe we should start a thread talking about the issues surrounding men rather than using the space about a woman’s issue to make it about men? I think if we feel passionate enough about it then why not, right? "In the same way we can’t talk about the wage gap without both genders being involved, I also feel we can’t discuss the empathy gap without both involved, because it’s something we should all be in together But I’d contribute if a thread was made. I’d love to hear stories from male victims and the help they received | |||
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" The part I find unfair is the unequal support offered to men in DV situations Campaign to change it then " I have to agree. Women have done a huge amount of work for decades to gain safe spaces, laws, legislation (eg upskirting bill) and support. I simply do not see that level of campaigning from men. I do see a lot of "what about men" comments here and elsewhere though. I can kinda see why some women find that somewhat galling. It's also (I think) why there is often a clash between women and trans women about resources such as refuges and toilets. | |||
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"Oh ok. Most, close to all maybe even, people that support victims of DV recognise men as victims and support them getting the help and support they need. The idea that most people or media or anything pretends men cannot be victims or abused is something I dispute. And actually think is used as an argument to undermine the concerns of women as it’s always only brought up in response to women talking about their experiences. Maybe we should start a thread talking about the issues surrounding men rather than using the space about a woman’s issue to make it about men? I think if we feel passionate enough about it then why not, right? The funny thing is, if that were the case you would also get (some!) women commenting on that saying it's worse for women. Then we are right back where we started... Right here. It is a vicious cycle as the wheel keeps turning m because some people on both sides refuse to accept its not a competition, yet both sides need to be acknowledged too. Empathy for others goes out the window when somebody relates strongly to a certain subject." Personally I am not planning or intending to start a thread on the issue. I do think perhaps women would comment the things you say, you’re right. But it would still be a more appropriate place to discuss the issues surrounding men as victims of DV than a thread like this. I hear what you’re saying but personally just feel as though this thread should’ve remained a space to talk about an issue affecting women. And I’m encouraging men that want it to be about something else, if they genuinely want to talk about those issues, to start a space to discuss it. Otherwise it seems disingenuous. Idk | |||
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" The part I find unfair is the unequal support offered to men in DV situations Campaign to change it then " Literally this. | |||
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"Actually there ARE refuges for male victims of domestic violence https://www.mankind.org.uk/statistics/statistics-on-male-victims-of-domestic-abuse/ Some very telling and interesting stats on there. There’s truly a problem that’s being swept under the rug so Thankyou for that link
Swept under the rug by who?
Years and years of telling men they can’t be victims or abused and the effects of that
Oh ok. Most, close to all maybe even, people that support victims of DV recognise men as victims and support them getting the help and support they need. The idea that most people or media or anything pretends men cannot be victims or abused is something I dispute. And actually think is used as an argument to undermine the concerns of women as it’s always only brought up in response to women talking about their experiences. Maybe we should start a thread talking about the issues surrounding men rather than using the space about a woman’s issue to make it about men? I think if we feel passionate enough about it then why not, right?
In the same way we can’t talk about the wage gap without both genders being involved, I also feel we can’t discuss the empathy gap without both involved, because it’s something we should all be in together
But I’d contribute if a thread was made. I’d love to hear stories from male victims and the help they received "This thread was about a thing that has nothing to do with this empathy gap. Was it? | |||
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" The part I find unfair is the unequal support offered to men in DV situations Campaign to change it then I have to agree. Women have done a huge amount of work for decades to gain safe spaces, laws, legislation (eg upskirting bill) and support. I simply do not see that level of campaigning from men. I do see a lot of "what about men" comments here and elsewhere though. I can kinda see why some women find that somewhat galling. It's also (I think) why there is often a clash between women and trans women about resources such as refuges and toilets. " I think there’s still a problem that men feel they can’t campaign about it for fear of being ridiculed and mocked. Or not taken seriously To take an issue with society, throw it at men and say “deal with it” isn’t fair. We should all work towards better stuff for everyone. | |||
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" The part I find unfair is the unequal support offered to men in DV situations Campaign to change it then I have to agree. Women have done a huge amount of work for decades to gain safe spaces, laws, legislation (eg upskirting bill) and support. I simply do not see that level of campaigning from men. I do see a lot of "what about men" comments here and elsewhere though. I can kinda see why some women find that somewhat galling. It's also (I think) why there is often a clash between women and trans women about resources such as refuges and toilets. I think there’s still a problem that men feel they can’t campaign about it for fear of being ridiculed and mocked. Or not taken seriously To take an issue with society, throw it at men and say “deal with it” isn’t fair. We should all work towards better stuff for everyone." Yet women campaigned for Women's rights and were ridiculed and mocked. Still are. How is it not fair that men start campaigning for their rights? | |||
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" The part I find unfair is the unequal support offered to men in DV situations Campaign to change it then I have to agree. Women have done a huge amount of work for decades to gain safe spaces, laws, legislation (eg upskirting bill) and support. I simply do not see that level of campaigning from men. I do see a lot of "what about men" comments here and elsewhere though. I can kinda see why some women find that somewhat galling. It's also (I think) why there is often a clash between women and trans women about resources such as refuges and toilets. I think there’s still a problem that men feel they can’t campaign about it for fear of being ridiculed and mocked. Or not taken seriously To take an issue with society, throw it at men and say “deal with it” isn’t fair. We should all work towards better stuff for everyone. Yet women campaigned for Women's rights and were ridiculed and mocked. Still are. How is it not fair that men start campaigning for their rights? " This | |||
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" The part I find unfair is the unequal support offered to men in DV situations Campaign to change it then I have to agree. Women have done a huge amount of work for decades to gain safe spaces, laws, legislation (eg upskirting bill) and support. I simply do not see that level of campaigning from men. I do see a lot of "what about men" comments here and elsewhere though. I can kinda see why some women find that somewhat galling. It's also (I think) why there is often a clash between women and trans women about resources such as refuges and toilets. I think there’s still a problem that men feel they can’t campaign about it for fear of being ridiculed and mocked. Or not taken seriously To take an issue with society, throw it at men and say “deal with it” isn’t fair. We should all work towards better stuff for everyone. Yet women campaigned for Women's rights and were ridiculed and mocked. Still are. How is it not fair that men start campaigning for their rights? " So we all must suffer the same pain despite being decades in the future? Aren’t we past that? | |||
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" The part I find unfair is the unequal support offered to men in DV situations Campaign to change it then I have to agree. Women have done a huge amount of work for decades to gain safe spaces, laws, legislation (eg upskirting bill) and support. I simply do not see that level of campaigning from men. I do see a lot of "what about men" comments here and elsewhere though. I can kinda see why some women find that somewhat galling. It's also (I think) why there is often a clash between women and trans women about resources such as refuges and toilets. I think there’s still a problem that men feel they can’t campaign about it for fear of being ridiculed and mocked. Or not taken seriously To take an issue with society, throw it at men and say “deal with it” isn’t fair. We should all work towards better stuff for everyone. Yet women campaigned for Women's rights and were ridiculed and mocked. Still are. How is it not fair that men start campaigning for their rights? " Actually a better question would be, would you support the campaign? | |||
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" The part I find unfair is the unequal support offered to men in DV situations Campaign to change it then I have to agree. Women have done a huge amount of work for decades to gain safe spaces, laws, legislation (eg upskirting bill) and support. I simply do not see that level of campaigning from men. I do see a lot of "what about men" comments here and elsewhere though. I can kinda see why some women find that somewhat galling. It's also (I think) why there is often a clash between women and trans women about resources such as refuges and toilets. I think there’s still a problem that men feel they can’t campaign about it for fear of being ridiculed and mocked. Or not taken seriously To take an issue with society, throw it at men and say “deal with it” isn’t fair. We should all work towards better stuff for everyone. Yet women campaigned for Women's rights and were ridiculed and mocked. Still are. How is it not fair that men start campaigning for their rights? So we all must suffer the same pain despite being decades in the future? Aren’t we past that? " Marginalised and oppressed groups have had to organise and resist in order to have their voices heard. Even recently. | |||
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" The part I find unfair is the unequal support offered to men in DV situations Campaign to change it then I have to agree. Women have done a huge amount of work for decades to gain safe spaces, laws, legislation (eg upskirting bill) and support. I simply do not see that level of campaigning from men. I do see a lot of "what about men" comments here and elsewhere though. I can kinda see why some women find that somewhat galling. It's also (I think) why there is often a clash between women and trans women about resources such as refuges and toilets. I think there’s still a problem that men feel they can’t campaign about it for fear of being ridiculed and mocked. Or not taken seriously To take an issue with society, throw it at men and say “deal with it” isn’t fair. We should all work towards better stuff for everyone. Yet women campaigned for Women's rights and were ridiculed and mocked. Still are. How is it not fair that men start campaigning for their rights? Actually a better question would be, would you support the campaign? " Yes | |||
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" The part I find unfair is the unequal support offered to men in DV situations Campaign to change it then I have to agree. Women have done a huge amount of work for decades to gain safe spaces, laws, legislation (eg upskirting bill) and support. I simply do not see that level of campaigning from men. I do see a lot of "what about men" comments here and elsewhere though. I can kinda see why some women find that somewhat galling. It's also (I think) why there is often a clash between women and trans women about resources such as refuges and toilets. I think there’s still a problem that men feel they can’t campaign about it for fear of being ridiculed and mocked. Or not taken seriously To take an issue with society, throw it at men and say “deal with it” isn’t fair. We should all work towards better stuff for everyone. Yet women campaigned for Women's rights and were ridiculed and mocked. Still are. How is it not fair that men start campaigning for their rights? So we all must suffer the same pain despite being decades in the future? Aren’t we past that? " If it affects men, they are the ones who will fight hardest. Same for any group. Women have done and continue to do a LOT of work to better women's rights. I see nothing wrong with that. It doesn't mean that women don't support other issues which impact other groups. | |||
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" The part I find unfair is the unequal support offered to men in DV situations Campaign to change it then I have to agree. Women have done a huge amount of work for decades to gain safe spaces, laws, legislation (eg upskirting bill) and support. I simply do not see that level of campaigning from men. I do see a lot of "what about men" comments here and elsewhere though. I can kinda see why some women find that somewhat galling. It's also (I think) why there is often a clash between women and trans women about resources such as refuges and toilets. I think there’s still a problem that men feel they can’t campaign about it for fear of being ridiculed and mocked. Or not taken seriously To take an issue with society, throw it at men and say “deal with it” isn’t fair. We should all work towards better stuff for everyone. Yet women campaigned for Women's rights and were ridiculed and mocked. Still are. How is it not fair that men start campaigning for their rights? Actually a better question would be, would you support the campaign? Yes" Then that’s all I care about. I appreciate on fabs that most people, especially on the forums are very supportive towards any kind of stuff like that. So Thankyou | |||
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"the whole of this thread shows how little people understand the reality of domestic violence. i recommend people read the academic works of Erin Prizzey or at the very least look at wikipedia. " Feels a bit ironic that the men’s rights activist cited here is a woman. Lol | |||
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"the whole of this thread shows how little people understand the reality of domestic violence. i recommend people read the academic works of Erin Prizzey or at the very least look at wikipedia. Feels a bit ironic that the men’s rights activist cited here is a woman. Lol" In the sense that people seem so certain that women don’t care about men’s issues. (Not an endorsement of her just an observation) | |||
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" I actually think it's a terrible idea for two reasons. It reinforces the idea that men are the problem when that simply isn't true. Mr So who exactly is the problem when it comes to dv against women? The perpetrator, not the male population as a whole. And I say this as a survivor of DV." | |||
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"Oh ok. Most, close to all maybe even, people that support victims of DV recognise men as victims and support them getting the help and support they need. The idea that most people or media or anything pretends men cannot be victims or abused is something I dispute. And actually think is used as an argument to undermine the concerns of women as it’s always only brought up in response to women talking about their experiences. Maybe we should start a thread talking about the issues surrounding men rather than using the space about a woman’s issue to make it about men? I think if we feel passionate enough about it then why not, right? The funny thing is, if that were the case you would also get (some!) women commenting on that saying it's worse for women. Then we are right back where we started... Right here. It is a vicious cycle as the wheel keeps turning m because some people on both sides refuse to accept its not a competition, yet both sides need to be acknowledged too. Empathy for others goes out the window when somebody relates strongly to a certain subject. Personally I am not planning or intending to start a thread on the issue. I do think perhaps women would comment the things you say, you’re right. But it would still be a more appropriate place to discuss the issues surrounding men as victims of DV than a thread like this. I hear what you’re saying but personally just feel as though this thread should’ve remained a space to talk about an issue affecting women. And I’m encouraging men that want it to be about something else, if they genuinely want to talk about those issues, to start a space to discuss it. Otherwise it seems disingenuous. Idk " I couldn't disagree more because there was a thread the other day specifically for men to discuss their experiences and it turned into the usual them and us crap and was eventually closed. | |||
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"Victims commissioner Dame Vera Baird speaking on radio 4 this morning agreed that the government approach to violence against men needs to be updated and they should stop taking a broadbrush attitude to it. Myths such as only gay men are victims and men who are abused are more likely to self harm need to be dispelled and more effort made to create an environment where outdated thoughts on masculinity prevent men from reporting violence. She said that one in six men are victims of violence but those stats get lost because of a failure to categorise violence against men seperately. " The government themselves have produced a policy paper about violence against men recently. "Supporting male victims of crimes considered violence against women and girls". I mean WTF? | |||
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"When i had to flee because of dv i was put in a shared refuge luckily it was empty but if I'm honest with myself i wouldn't of been comfortable had they moved* anyone in. I know it's not a reasonable option but the only way i felt safe was to have my own monitored space. " | |||
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"Victims commissioner Dame Vera Baird speaking on radio 4 this morning agreed that the government approach to violence against men needs to be updated and they should stop taking a broadbrush attitude to it. Myths such as only gay men are victims and men who are abused are more likely to self harm need to be dispelled and more effort made to create an environment where outdated thoughts on masculinity prevent men from reporting violence. She said that one in six men are victims of violence but those stats get lost because of a failure to categorise violence against men seperately. The government themselves have produced a policy paper about violence against men recently. "Supporting male victims of crimes considered violence against women and girls". I mean WTF? " That's what the discussion was about on radio 4 | |||
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"Victims commissioner Dame Vera Baird speaking on radio 4 this morning agreed that the government approach to violence against men needs to be updated and they should stop taking a broadbrush attitude to it. Myths such as only gay men are victims and men who are abused are more likely to self harm need to be dispelled and more effort made to create an environment where outdated thoughts on masculinity prevent men from reporting violence. She said that one in six men are victims of violence but those stats get lost because of a failure to categorise violence against men seperately. The government themselves have produced a policy paper about violence against men recently. "Supporting male victims of crimes considered violence against women and girls". I mean WTF? That's what the discussion was about on radio 4" Was there any explanation of why violence against men was grouped with VAWG? | |||
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"Victims commissioner Dame Vera Baird speaking on radio 4 this morning agreed that the government approach to violence against men needs to be updated and they should stop taking a broadbrush attitude to it. Myths such as only gay men are victims and men who are abused are more likely to self harm need to be dispelled and more effort made to create an environment where outdated thoughts on masculinity prevent men from reporting violence. She said that one in six men are victims of violence but those stats get lost because of a failure to categorise violence against men seperately. The government themselves have produced a policy paper about violence against men recently. "Supporting male victims of crimes considered violence against women and girls". I mean WTF? That's what the discussion was about on radio 4 Was there any explanation of why violence against men was grouped with VAWG?" None but they were asking why and the victims commissioner agreed it was unacceptable and supported a male contributor who is running a number of organisations campaigning for more clarity. | |||
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"Victims commissioner Dame Vera Baird speaking on radio 4 this morning agreed that the government approach to violence against men needs to be updated and they should stop taking a broadbrush attitude to it. Myths such as only gay men are victims and men who are abused are more likely to self harm need to be dispelled and more effort made to create an environment where outdated thoughts on masculinity prevent men from reporting violence. She said that one in six men are victims of violence but those stats get lost because of a failure to categorise violence against men seperately. The government themselves have produced a policy paper about violence against men recently. "Supporting male victims of crimes considered violence against women and girls". I mean WTF? " it's really unhelpful that crimes are gendered on this way. Imagine saying "supporting men who have female cancer". This could be part of the reason male DV victims are reluctant to come forwards. It's a vicious cycle. | |||
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"Reports that hostels for abused women could be all female only in certain circumstances.. Make sense of that one? " It's so the men can keep the house. Get the women and kids in some refuge hostel so the man can keep his feet up living in comfort at home. Poor men.  | |||
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"I couldn't disagree more because there was a thread the other day specifically for men to discuss their experiences and it turned into the usual them and us crap and was eventually closed. " Was in two minds about replying to this thread. I don’t like inflammatory subjects but... I watched my dad suffer DV for years at the hand of my mother. He was scarred mentally and physically. His reports to police, doctors, friends, whatever... were ignored or belittled for the most part. Regardless of who you are, what you’ve got between your legs, DV is abhorrent. People should support any victim. But it’s not always “us vs them” - sometimes it’s “us vs us.” | |||
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"Victims commissioner Dame Vera Baird speaking on radio 4 this morning agreed that the government approach to violence against men needs to be updated and they should stop taking a broadbrush attitude to it. Myths such as only gay men are victims and men who are abused are more likely to self harm need to be dispelled and more effort made to create an environment where outdated thoughts on masculinity prevent men from reporting violence. She said that one in six men are victims of violence but those stats get lost because of a failure to categorise violence against men seperately. The government themselves have produced a policy paper about violence against men recently. "Supporting male victims of crimes considered violence against women and girls". I mean WTF? That's what the discussion was about on radio 4 Was there any explanation of why violence against men was grouped with VAWG? None but they were asking why and the victims commissioner agreed it was unacceptable and supported a male contributor who is running a number of organisations campaigning for more clarity. " I like the sound of Vera. To be fair I picked up the info about the report on mumsnet. Which does have quite the reputation I know. But very good to finding out about latest reports, articles and has share links to articles behind paywalls like The Telegraph. | |||
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"Victims commissioner Dame Vera Baird speaking on radio 4 this morning agreed that the government approach to violence against men needs to be updated and they should stop taking a broadbrush attitude to it. Myths such as only gay men are victims and men who are abused are more likely to self harm need to be dispelled and more effort made to create an environment where outdated thoughts on masculinity prevent men from reporting violence. She said that one in six men are victims of violence but those stats get lost because of a failure to categorise violence against men seperately. The government themselves have produced a policy paper about violence against men recently. "Supporting male victims of crimes considered violence against women and girls". I mean WTF? " Sorry if I’m being dumb, but what does that mean? I’m reading it as if it’s saying “supporting male victims is hurtful to women and girls” But I’m almost certain I’m wrong? I didn’t have a chance to read the paper linked as I’m at work but surely I’ve got it mixed up? | |||
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"Victims commissioner Dame Vera Baird speaking on radio 4 this morning agreed that the government approach to violence against men needs to be updated and they should stop taking a broadbrush attitude to it. Myths such as only gay men are victims and men who are abused are more likely to self harm need to be dispelled and more effort made to create an environment where outdated thoughts on masculinity prevent men from reporting violence. She said that one in six men are victims of violence but those stats get lost because of a failure to categorise violence against men seperately. The government themselves have produced a policy paper about violence against men recently. "Supporting male victims of crimes considered violence against women and girls". I mean WTF? Sorry if I’m being dumb, but what does that mean? I’m reading it as if it’s saying “supporting male victims is hurtful to women and girls” But I’m almost certain I’m wrong? I didn’t have a chance to read the paper linked as I’m at work but surely I’ve got it mixed up? " Tbh that's actually how I read it and I didn't listen closely enough to the interview to say otherwise. I wasn't sure if I misunderstood it | |||
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"Reports that hostels for abused women could be all female only in certain circumstances.. Make sense of that one? It's so the men can keep the house. Get the women and kids in some refuge hostel so the man can keep his feet up living in comfort at home. Poor men. "So hard being a man  | |||
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"Victims commissioner Dame Vera Baird speaking on radio 4 this morning agreed that the government approach to violence against men needs to be updated and they should stop taking a broadbrush attitude to it. Myths such as only gay men are victims and men who are abused are more likely to self harm need to be dispelled and more effort made to create an environment where outdated thoughts on masculinity prevent men from reporting violence. She said that one in six men are victims of violence but those stats get lost because of a failure to categorise violence against men seperately. The government themselves have produced a policy paper about violence against men recently. "Supporting male victims of crimes considered violence against women and girls". I mean WTF? Sorry if I’m being dumb, but what does that mean? I’m reading it as if it’s saying “supporting male victims is hurtful to women and girls” But I’m almost certain I’m wrong? I didn’t have a chance to read the paper linked as I’m at work but surely I’ve got it mixed up? Tbh that's actually how I read it and I didn't listen closely enough to the interview to say otherwise. I wasn't sure if I misunderstood it" It's bonkers tbh. This is from the intro. "This document outlines the Government’s support for male victims of crimes that fall within the violence against women and girls space. This document sits alongside the Tackling Violence Against Women and Girls (VAWG) Strategy 2021 and the Domestic Abuse Plan 2022, as a connected and complementary piece of work. Both the Tackling Violence Against Women and Girls Strategy, and the Domestic Abuse Plan, set out our ambition to reduce the prevalence of all VAWG crimes, regardless of who they affect, and to support all victims/survivors, including men and boys." | |||
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"Victims commissioner Dame Vera Baird speaking on radio 4 this morning agreed that the government approach to violence against men needs to be updated and they should stop taking a broadbrush attitude to it. Myths such as only gay men are victims and men who are abused are more likely to self harm need to be dispelled and more effort made to create an environment where outdated thoughts on masculinity prevent men from reporting violence. She said that one in six men are victims of violence but those stats get lost because of a failure to categorise violence against men seperately. The government themselves have produced a policy paper about violence against men recently. "Supporting male victims of crimes considered violence against women and girls". I mean WTF? Sorry if I’m being dumb, but what does that mean? I’m reading it as if it’s saying “supporting male victims is hurtful to women and girls” But I’m almost certain I’m wrong? I didn’t have a chance to read the paper linked as I’m at work but surely I’ve got it mixed up? Tbh that's actually how I read it and I didn't listen closely enough to the interview to say otherwise. I wasn't sure if I misunderstood it It's bonkers tbh. This is from the intro. "This document outlines the Government’s support for male victims of crimes that fall within the violence against women and girls space. This document sits alongside the Tackling Violence Against Women and Girls (VAWG) Strategy 2021 and the Domestic Abuse Plan 2022, as a connected and complementary piece of work. Both the Tackling Violence Against Women and Girls Strategy, and the Domestic Abuse Plan, set out our ambition to reduce the prevalence of all VAWG crimes, regardless of who they affect, and to support all victims/survivors, including men and boys."" I hate feeling this dumb. So they just want to include men/boys? But still calm it VAWG? Honestly I don’t care as long as people are getting support and it’s being tackled. But it does seem very odd | |||
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"Reports that hostels for abused women could be all female only in certain circumstances.. Make sense of that one? It's so the men can keep the house. Get the women and kids in some refuge hostel so the man can keep his feet up living in comfort at home. Poor men. " Disappointed in this comment. The context is whether trans women can be legally excluded from women's single sex spaces such as refuges, hostels, prisons, hospital wards, changing rooms etc. EHRC's guidance is that the law does allow exclusions in some circumstances. Previously Stonewall's guidance has been that the law does NOT allow exclusions. There has been no change to the legislation. | |||
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"Isn’t VAWG about gendered violence? " Violence against Women and Girls seems pretty gendered yeah. That's why the government seem a bit insane with this policy paper. | |||
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"Victims commissioner Dame Vera Baird speaking on radio 4 this morning agreed that the government approach to violence against men needs to be updated and they should stop taking a broadbrush attitude to it. Myths such as only gay men are victims and men who are abused are more likely to self harm need to be dispelled and more effort made to create an environment where outdated thoughts on masculinity prevent men from reporting violence. She said that one in six men are victims of violence but those stats get lost because of a failure to categorise violence against men seperately. The government themselves have produced a policy paper about violence against men recently. "Supporting male victims of crimes considered violence against women and girls". I mean WTF? Sorry if I’m being dumb, but what does that mean? I’m reading it as if it’s saying “supporting male victims is hurtful to women and girls” But I’m almost certain I’m wrong? I didn’t have a chance to read the paper linked as I’m at work but surely I’ve got it mixed up? Tbh that's actually how I read it and I didn't listen closely enough to the interview to say otherwise. I wasn't sure if I misunderstood it It's bonkers tbh. This is from the intro. "This document outlines the Government’s support for male victims of crimes that fall within the violence against women and girls space. This document sits alongside the Tackling Violence Against Women and Girls (VAWG) Strategy 2021 and the Domestic Abuse Plan 2022, as a connected and complementary piece of work. Both the Tackling Violence Against Women and Girls Strategy, and the Domestic Abuse Plan, set out our ambition to reduce the prevalence of all VAWG crimes, regardless of who they affect, and to support all victims/survivors, including men and boys." I hate feeling this dumb. So they just want to include men/boys? But still calm it VAWG? Honestly I don’t care as long as people are getting support and it’s being tackled. But it does seem very odd " It's bloody stupid. And unfair to men. | |||
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"Victims commissioner Dame Vera Baird speaking on radio 4 this morning agreed that the government approach to violence against men needs to be updated and they should stop taking a broadbrush attitude to it. Myths such as only gay men are victims and men who are abused are more likely to self harm need to be dispelled and more effort made to create an environment where outdated thoughts on masculinity prevent men from reporting violence. She said that one in six men are victims of violence but those stats get lost because of a failure to categorise violence against men seperately. The government themselves have produced a policy paper about violence against men recently. "Supporting male victims of crimes considered violence against women and girls". I mean WTF? Sorry if I’m being dumb, but what does that mean? I’m reading it as if it’s saying “supporting male victims is hurtful to women and girls” But I’m almost certain I’m wrong? I didn’t have a chance to read the paper linked as I’m at work but surely I’ve got it mixed up? Tbh that's actually how I read it and I didn't listen closely enough to the interview to say otherwise. I wasn't sure if I misunderstood it It's bonkers tbh. This is from the intro. "This document outlines the Government’s support for male victims of crimes that fall within the violence against women and girls space. This document sits alongside the Tackling Violence Against Women and Girls (VAWG) Strategy 2021 and the Domestic Abuse Plan 2022, as a connected and complementary piece of work. Both the Tackling Violence Against Women and Girls Strategy, and the Domestic Abuse Plan, set out our ambition to reduce the prevalence of all VAWG crimes, regardless of who they affect, and to support all victims/survivors, including men and boys." I hate feeling this dumb. So they just want to include men/boys? But still calm it VAWG? Honestly I don’t care as long as people are getting support and it’s being tackled. But it does seem very odd It's bloody stupid. And unfair to men. " Well I’ll definitely be giving it a deeper reading when I get the chance. I’m struggling to understand what it even means so I can’t say much, but I’ll take your word that it seems unfair Sad times | |||
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"Victims commissioner Dame Vera Baird speaking on radio 4 this morning agreed that the government approach to violence against men needs to be updated and they should stop taking a broadbrush attitude to it. Myths such as only gay men are victims and men who are abused are more likely to self harm need to be dispelled and more effort made to create an environment where outdated thoughts on masculinity prevent men from reporting violence. She said that one in six men are victims of violence but those stats get lost because of a failure to categorise violence against men seperately. The government themselves have produced a policy paper about violence against men recently. "Supporting male victims of crimes considered violence against women and girls". I mean WTF? Sorry if I’m being dumb, but what does that mean? I’m reading it as if it’s saying “supporting male victims is hurtful to women and girls” But I’m almost certain I’m wrong? I didn’t have a chance to read the paper linked as I’m at work but surely I’ve got it mixed up? Tbh that's actually how I read it and I didn't listen closely enough to the interview to say otherwise. I wasn't sure if I misunderstood it It's bonkers tbh. This is from the intro. "This document outlines the Government’s support for male victims of crimes that fall within the violence against women and girls space. This document sits alongside the Tackling Violence Against Women and Girls (VAWG) Strategy 2021 and the Domestic Abuse Plan 2022, as a connected and complementary piece of work. Both the Tackling Violence Against Women and Girls Strategy, and the Domestic Abuse Plan, set out our ambition to reduce the prevalence of all VAWG crimes, regardless of who they affect, and to support all victims/survivors, including men and boys." I hate feeling this dumb. So they just want to include men/boys? But still calm it VAWG? Honestly I don’t care as long as people are getting support and it’s being tackled. But it does seem very odd It's bloody stupid. And unfair to men. Well I’ll definitely be giving it a deeper reading when I get the chance. I’m struggling to understand what it even means so I can’t say much, but I’ll take your word that it seems unfair Sad times " It's 19 pages so I have only scanned it but the content seems good - it's only the grouping with VAWG that is the issue. It undermines the whole point! As Reality says, it's good that Vera Baird is aware and involved. | |||
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"Victims commissioner Dame Vera Baird speaking on radio 4 this morning agreed that the government approach to violence against men needs to be updated and they should stop taking a broadbrush attitude to it. Myths such as only gay men are victims and men who are abused are more likely to self harm need to be dispelled and more effort made to create an environment where outdated thoughts on masculinity prevent men from reporting violence. She said that one in six men are victims of violence but those stats get lost because of a failure to categorise violence against men seperately. The government themselves have produced a policy paper about violence against men recently. "Supporting male victims of crimes considered violence against women and girls". I mean WTF? Sorry if I’m being dumb, but what does that mean? I’m reading it as if it’s saying “supporting male victims is hurtful to women and girls” But I’m almost certain I’m wrong? I didn’t have a chance to read the paper linked as I’m at work but surely I’ve got it mixed up? Tbh that's actually how I read it and I didn't listen closely enough to the interview to say otherwise. I wasn't sure if I misunderstood it It's bonkers tbh. This is from the intro. "This document outlines the Government’s support for male victims of crimes that fall within the violence against women and girls space. This document sits alongside the Tackling Violence Against Women and Girls (VAWG) Strategy 2021 and the Domestic Abuse Plan 2022, as a connected and complementary piece of work. Both the Tackling Violence Against Women and Girls Strategy, and the Domestic Abuse Plan, set out our ambition to reduce the prevalence of all VAWG crimes, regardless of who they affect, and to support all victims/survivors, including men and boys." I hate feeling this dumb. So they just want to include men/boys? But still calm it VAWG? Honestly I don’t care as long as people are getting support and it’s being tackled. But it does seem very odd It's bloody stupid. And unfair to men. Well I’ll definitely be giving it a deeper reading when I get the chance. I’m struggling to understand what it even means so I can’t say much, but I’ll take your word that it seems unfair Sad times It's 19 pages so I have only scanned it but the content seems good - it's only the grouping with VAWG that is the issue. It undermines the whole point! As Reality says, it's good that Vera Baird is aware and involved. " Ah right, yeah I’d agree. Both sides need different solutions, treatment etc. we should be coming together to strive for equality, but not forgetting that equity in situations is needed too. What I need for a DV situation is going to be very different to what a woman needs, and it’s gonna be different person to person too. Lumping all together does seem weird | |||
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"Victims commissioner Dame Vera Baird speaking on radio 4 this morning agreed that the government approach to violence against men needs to be updated and they should stop taking a broadbrush attitude to it. Myths such as only gay men are victims and men who are abused are more likely to self harm need to be dispelled and more effort made to create an environment where outdated thoughts on masculinity prevent men from reporting violence. She said that one in six men are victims of violence but those stats get lost because of a failure to categorise violence against men seperately. The government themselves have produced a policy paper about violence against men recently. "Supporting male victims of crimes considered violence against women and girls". I mean WTF? Sorry if I’m being dumb, but what does that mean? I’m reading it as if it’s saying “supporting male victims is hurtful to women and girls” But I’m almost certain I’m wrong? I didn’t have a chance to read the paper linked as I’m at work but surely I’ve got it mixed up? Tbh that's actually how I read it and I didn't listen closely enough to the interview to say otherwise. I wasn't sure if I misunderstood it It's bonkers tbh. This is from the intro. "This document outlines the Government’s support for male victims of crimes that fall within the violence against women and girls space. This document sits alongside the Tackling Violence Against Women and Girls (VAWG) Strategy 2021 and the Domestic Abuse Plan 2022, as a connected and complementary piece of work. Both the Tackling Violence Against Women and Girls Strategy, and the Domestic Abuse Plan, set out our ambition to reduce the prevalence of all VAWG crimes, regardless of who they affect, and to support all victims/survivors, including men and boys." I hate feeling this dumb. So they just want to include men/boys? But still calm it VAWG? Honestly I don’t care as long as people are getting support and it’s being tackled. But it does seem very odd It's bloody stupid. And unfair to men. Well I’ll definitely be giving it a deeper reading when I get the chance. I’m struggling to understand what it even means so I can’t say much, but I’ll take your word that it seems unfair Sad times It's 19 pages so I have only scanned it but the content seems good - it's only the grouping with VAWG that is the issue. It undermines the whole point! As Reality says, it's good that Vera Baird is aware and involved. Ah right, yeah I’d agree. Both sides need different solutions, treatment etc. we should be coming together to strive for equality, but not forgetting that equity in situations is needed too. What I need for a DV situation is going to be very different to what a woman needs, and it’s gonna be different person to person too. Lumping all together does seem weird " I came in mid interview so I only got the bare bones of it and the male campaigner said exactly this and he wanted more awareness of how more men are victims of knife crime so it wasn't all about DV. | |||
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"Reports that hostels for abused women could be all female only in certain circumstances.. Make sense of that one? It's so the men can keep the house. Get the women and kids in some refuge hostel so the man can keep his feet up living in comfort at home. Poor men. "Not always. My ex-wife got the house because I didn't want my children to be homeless. Not all guys fit the description you're painting. | |||
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"Reports that hostels for abused women could be all female only in certain circumstances.. Make sense of that one? It's so the men can keep the house. Get the women and kids in some refuge hostel so the man can keep his feet up living in comfort at home. Poor men.
Not always. My ex-wife got the house because I didn't want my children to be homeless. Not all guys fit the description you're painting."People need to Google 'sarcasm'. | |||
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"Reports that hostels for abused women could be all female only in certain circumstances.. Make sense of that one? It's so the men can keep the house. Get the women and kids in some refuge hostel so the man can keep his feet up living in comfort at home. Poor men.
Disappointed in this comment. The context is whether trans women can be legally excluded from women's single sex spaces such as refuges, hostels, prisons, hospital wards, changing rooms etc. EHRC's guidance is that the law does allow exclusions in some circumstances. Previously Stonewall's guidance has been that the law does NOT allow exclusions. There has been no change to the legislation. "The post clearly refers to men. Trans people are not mentioned. | |||
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"Reports that hostels for abused women could be all female only in certain circumstances.. Make sense of that one? It's so the men can keep the house. Get the women and kids in some refuge hostel so the man can keep his feet up living in comfort at home. Poor men.
Disappointed in this comment. The context is whether trans women can be legally excluded from women's single sex spaces such as refuges, hostels, prisons, hospital wards, changing rooms etc. EHRC's guidance is that the law does allow exclusions in some circumstances. Previously Stonewall's guidance has been that the law does NOT allow exclusions. There has been no change to the legislation.
The post clearly refers to men. Trans people are not mentioned. "It doesn't mention men or trans people to be fair. But I clarified what the "news" is and no-one has corrected me including Tom. Actually I am rereading your comment and not sure why I reacted as I did. Sorry, Outsider. | |||
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"Reports that hostels for abused women could be all female only in certain circumstances.. Make sense of that one? It's so the men can keep the house. Get the women and kids in some refuge hostel so the man can keep his feet up living in comfort at home. Poor men.
Disappointed in this comment. The context is whether trans women can be legally excluded from women's single sex spaces such as refuges, hostels, prisons, hospital wards, changing rooms etc. EHRC's guidance is that the law does allow exclusions in some circumstances. Previously Stonewall's guidance has been that the law does NOT allow exclusions. There has been no change to the legislation.
The post clearly refers to men. Trans people are not mentioned.
It doesn't mention men or trans people to be fair. But I clarified what the "news" is and no-one has corrected me including Tom. Actually I am rereading your comment and not sure why I reacted as I did. Sorry, Outsider. "No worries.
I agree with your post though.  | |||
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"Reports that hostels for abused women could be all female only in certain circumstances.. Make sense of that one? It's so the men can keep the house. Get the women and kids in some refuge hostel so the man can keep his feet up living in comfort at home. Poor men.
Disappointed in this comment. The context is whether trans women can be legally excluded from women's single sex spaces such as refuges, hostels, prisons, hospital wards, changing rooms etc. EHRC's guidance is that the law does allow exclusions in some circumstances. Previously Stonewall's guidance has been that the law does NOT allow exclusions. There has been no change to the legislation.
The post clearly refers to men. Trans people are not mentioned.
It doesn't mention men or trans people to be fair. But I clarified what the "news" is and no-one has corrected me including Tom. Actually I am rereading your comment and not sure why I reacted as I did. Sorry, Outsider.
No worries.
I agree with your post though. "Thank you, banana one | |||
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"Reports that hostels for abused women could be all female only in certain circumstances.. Make sense of that one? It's so the men can keep the house. Get the women and kids in some refuge hostel so the man can keep his feet up living in comfort at home. Poor men.
Not always. My ex-wife got the house because I didn't want my children to be homeless. Not all guys fit the description you're painting."Apologies. I agree with you.
Some men are amazing and kind. -That's heartfelt, not sarcasm. | |||
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"Reports that hostels for abused women could be all female only in certain circumstances.. Make sense of that one? It's so the men can keep the house. Get the women and kids in some refuge hostel so the man can keep his feet up living in comfort at home. Poor men.
Not always. My ex-wife got the house because I didn't want my children to be homeless. Not all guys fit the description you're painting.
Apologies. I agree with you.
Some men are amazing and kind. -That's heartfelt, not sarcasm. "Thanks Outsider. Sorry for my reaction but in my experience there have been women who actually believe that all men are like that. To be fair to women of DV though, if they've had that experience with more than one man I can understand why they may come to that conclusion. | |||
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"Reports that hostels for abused women could be all female only in certain circumstances.. Make sense of that one? It's so the men can keep the house. Get the women and kids in some refuge hostel so the man can keep his feet up living in comfort at home. Poor men.
Not always. My ex-wife got the house because I didn't want my children to be homeless. Not all guys fit the description you're painting.
Apologies. I agree with you.
Some men are amazing and kind. -That's heartfelt, not sarcasm.
Thanks Outsider. Sorry for my reaction but in my experience there have been women who actually believe that all men are like that.
To be fair to women of DV though, if they've had that experience with more than one man I can understand why they may come to that conclusion."Eh no, you were polite. I was the knob. X | |||
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"Reports that hostels for abused women could be all female only in certain circumstances.. Make sense of that one? It's so the men can keep the house. Get the women and kids in some refuge hostel so the man can keep his feet up living in comfort at home. Poor men.
Not always. My ex-wife got the house because I didn't want my children to be homeless. Not all guys fit the description you're painting.
Apologies. I agree with you.
Some men are amazing and kind. -That's heartfelt, not sarcasm.
Thanks Outsider. Sorry for my reaction but in my experience there have been women who actually believe that all men are like that.
To be fair to women of DV though, if they've had that experience with more than one man I can understand why they may come to that conclusion.
Eh no, you were polite. I was the knob. X"No, you're fine hunny. It's the domestic abusers who are knobs! xxx | |||
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"the whole of this thread shows how little people understand the reality of domestic violence. i recommend people read the academic works of Erin Prizzey or at the very least look at wikipedia. " THIS | |||
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"the whole of this thread shows how little people understand the reality of domestic violence. i recommend people read the academic works of Erin Prizzey or at the very least look at wikipedia. THIS "Instead of pointing to academic works - why not summarise a little of the point you want to make? Not sure how people aren't getting the reality of domestic violence. | |||
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"the whole of this thread shows how little people understand the reality of domestic violence. i recommend people read the academic works of Erin Prizzey or at the very least look at wikipedia. THIS
Instead of pointing to academic works - why not summarise a little of the point you want to make? Not sure how people aren't getting the reality of domestic violence. "to be fair the point i was alluding to was succinctly made in the first scentence i wrote. i expanded in the remainder. the work of academia on the subject should be brought to wider attention or we as a society risk drawing out the cycle of violence longer than it should be or indeed longer tha it already has been. one aspect of DV that is barely mentioned is intergenerational rather than betwixt genders. | |||
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"the whole of this thread shows how little people understand the reality of domestic violence. i recommend people read the academic works of Erin Prizzey or at the very least look at wikipedia. THIS
Instead of pointing to academic works - why not summarise a little of the point you want to make? Not sure how people aren't getting the reality of domestic violence.
to be fair the point i was alluding to was succinctly made in the first scentence i wrote. i expanded in the remainder.
the work of academia on the subject should be brought to wider attention or we as a society risk drawing out the cycle of violence longer than it should be or indeed longer tha it already has been.
one aspect of DV that is barely mentioned is intergenerational rather than betwixt genders."Pardon but your first sentence just said that other people didn't understand the topic. It's a discussion forum - in order to discuss ideas it's useful to put something out there, not tell everyone to read an academic text. | |||
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"I dislike threads like this...all it shows is the hatred our society has built towards men " Have you read the thread responses? I don't think you'd find they're man-hating. The topic is actually whether trans women should be allowed access to women's refuges. It's not a thread about men. | |||
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"I dislike threads like this...all it shows is the hatred our society has built towards men " You haven't read it, have you? | |||
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"I dislike threads like this...all it shows is the hatred our society has built towards men " Does society have a hatred towards men really? I've been the victim of physical abuse by my father, and a victim of physical and sexual abuse by my ex husband. But I don't hate men, I hate those two men I will admit. But I have two young sons, they're going to grow into men. I definitely don't hate them, neither do I hate my uncles who are super cool. My best friends Dad is an absolute legend, and I adore him. And there are many more men in my life that I love, like, admire. What I am is suspicious of men I don't know. That is different to hatred. | |||
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"the whole of this thread shows how little people understand the reality of domestic violence. i recommend people read the academic works of Erin Prizzey or at the very least look at wikipedia. THIS
Instead of pointing to academic works - why not summarise a little of the point you want to make? Not sure how people aren't getting the reality of domestic violence.
to be fair the point i was alluding to was succinctly made in the first scentence i wrote. i expanded in the remainder.
the work of academia on the subject should be brought to wider attention or we as a society risk drawing out the cycle of violence longer than it should be or indeed longer tha it already has been.
one aspect of DV that is barely mentioned is intergenerational rather than betwixt genders.
Pardon but your first sentence just said that other people didn't understand the topic. It's a discussion forum - in order to discuss ideas it's useful to put something out there, not tell everyone to read an academic text. "i don't understand your hostility as i did also mention that wiki gives an abridged account of erin prizzy's work and acheivements in the field of domestic violence, for those who either weren't interested in academic works, don't have the time or other reasons. perhaps i didn't make that clear enough maybe. | |||
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"the whole of this thread shows how little people understand the reality of domestic violence. i recommend people read the academic works of Erin Prizzey or at the very least look at wikipedia. THIS
Instead of pointing to academic works - why not summarise a little of the point you want to make? Not sure how people aren't getting the reality of domestic violence.
to be fair the point i was alluding to was succinctly made in the first scentence i wrote. i expanded in the remainder.
the work of academia on the subject should be brought to wider attention or we as a society risk drawing out the cycle of violence longer than it should be or indeed longer tha it already has been.
one aspect of DV that is barely mentioned is intergenerational rather than betwixt genders.
Pardon but your first sentence just said that other people didn't understand the topic. It's a discussion forum - in order to discuss ideas it's useful to put something out there, not tell everyone to read an academic text.
i don't understand your hostility as i did also mention that wiki gives an abridged account of erin prizzy's work and acheivements in the field of domestic violence, for those who either weren't interested in academic works, don't have the time or other reasons. perhaps i didn't make that clear enough maybe. "No hostility was meant, I'm sorry if I came across that way. | |||
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"the whole of this thread shows how little people understand the reality of domestic violence. i recommend people read the academic works of Erin Prizzey or at the very least look at wikipedia. THIS
Instead of pointing to academic works - why not summarise a little of the point you want to make? Not sure how people aren't getting the reality of domestic violence.
to be fair the point i was alluding to was succinctly made in the first scentence i wrote. i expanded in the remainder.
the work of academia on the subject should be brought to wider attention or we as a society risk drawing out the cycle of violence longer than it should be or indeed longer tha it already has been.
one aspect of DV that is barely mentioned is intergenerational rather than betwixt genders.
Pardon but your first sentence just said that other people didn't understand the topic. It's a discussion forum - in order to discuss ideas it's useful to put something out there, not tell everyone to read an academic text.
i don't understand your hostility as i did also mention that wiki gives an abridged account of erin prizzy's work and acheivements in the field of domestic violence, for those who either weren't interested in academic works, don't have the time or other reasons. perhaps i didn't make that clear enough maybe.
No hostility was meant, I'm sorry if I came across that way. "it's ok, we're cool | |||
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"the whole of this thread shows how little people understand the reality of domestic violence. i recommend people read the academic works of Erin Prizzey or at the very least look at wikipedia. THIS
Instead of pointing to academic works - why not summarise a little of the point you want to make? Not sure how people aren't getting the reality of domestic violence.
to be fair the point i was alluding to was succinctly made in the first scentence i wrote. i expanded in the remainder.
the work of academia on the subject should be brought to wider attention or we as a society risk drawing out the cycle of violence longer than it should be or indeed longer tha it already has been.
one aspect of DV that is barely mentioned is intergenerational rather than betwixt genders.
Pardon but your first sentence just said that other people didn't understand the topic. It's a discussion forum - in order to discuss ideas it's useful to put something out there, not tell everyone to read an academic text.
i don't understand your hostility as i did also mention that wiki gives an abridged account of erin prizzy's work and acheivements in the field of domestic violence, for those who either weren't interested in academic works, don't have the time or other reasons. perhaps i didn't make that clear enough maybe. "my quick summary/recall of the wiki. While working with female DV victims she found many (60ish pc) were not one sided victims but were also violent towards the male. Eg it was a violent household. I suspect it's this concept that supports the view that the split is not as gender biased as some stats suggest. | |||
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"the whole of this thread shows how little people understand the reality of domestic violence. i recommend people read the academic works of Erin Prizzey or at the very least look at wikipedia. THIS
Instead of pointing to academic works - why not summarise a little of the point you want to make? Not sure how people aren't getting the reality of domestic violence.
to be fair the point i was alluding to was succinctly made in the first scentence i wrote. i expanded in the remainder.
the work of academia on the subject should be brought to wider attention or we as a society risk drawing out the cycle of violence longer than it should be or indeed longer tha it already has been.
one aspect of DV that is barely mentioned is intergenerational rather than betwixt genders.
Pardon but your first sentence just said that other people didn't understand the topic. It's a discussion forum - in order to discuss ideas it's useful to put something out there, not tell everyone to read an academic text.
i don't understand your hostility as i did also mention that wiki gives an abridged account of erin prizzy's work and acheivements in the field of domestic violence, for those who either weren't interested in academic works, don't have the time or other reasons. perhaps i didn't make that clear enough maybe. my quick summary/recall of the wiki.
While working with female DV victims she found many (60ish pc) were not one sided victims but were also violent towards the male. Eg it was a violent household.
I suspect it's this concept that supports the view that the split is not as gender biased as some stats suggest.
"that's extremely watered down. even the wiki is more expansive than that to be fair. | |||
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"the whole of this thread shows how little people understand the reality of domestic violence. i recommend people read the academic works of Erin Prizzey or at the very least look at wikipedia. THIS
Instead of pointing to academic works - why not summarise a little of the point you want to make? Not sure how people aren't getting the reality of domestic violence.
to be fair the point i was alluding to was succinctly made in the first scentence i wrote. i expanded in the remainder.
the work of academia on the subject should be brought to wider attention or we as a society risk drawing out the cycle of violence longer than it should be or indeed longer tha it already has been.
one aspect of DV that is barely mentioned is intergenerational rather than betwixt genders.
Pardon but your first sentence just said that other people didn't understand the topic. It's a discussion forum - in order to discuss ideas it's useful to put something out there, not tell everyone to read an academic text.
i don't understand your hostility as i did also mention that wiki gives an abridged account of erin prizzy's work and acheivements in the field of domestic violence, for those who either weren't interested in academic works, don't have the time or other reasons. perhaps i didn't make that clear enough maybe. my quick summary/recall of the wiki.
While working with female DV victims she found many (60ish pc) were not one sided victims but were also violent towards the male. Eg it was a violent household.
I suspect it's this concept that supports the view that the split is not as gender biased as some stats suggest.
that's extremely watered down. even the wiki is more expansive than that to be fair. "feel free to add. I was trying to bridge the gap to help give a flavour of what they may expect from the wiki. | |||
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"the whole of this thread shows how little people understand the reality of domestic violence. i recommend people read the academic works of Erin Prizzey or at the very least look at wikipedia. THIS
Instead of pointing to academic works - why not summarise a little of the point you want to make? Not sure how people aren't getting the reality of domestic violence.
to be fair the point i was alluding to was succinctly made in the first scentence i wrote. i expanded in the remainder.
the work of academia on the subject should be brought to wider attention or we as a society risk drawing out the cycle of violence longer than it should be or indeed longer tha it already has been.
one aspect of DV that is barely mentioned is intergenerational rather than betwixt genders.
Pardon but your first sentence just said that other people didn't understand the topic. It's a discussion forum - in order to discuss ideas it's useful to put something out there, not tell everyone to read an academic text.
i don't understand your hostility as i did also mention that wiki gives an abridged account of erin prizzy's work and acheivements in the field of domestic violence, for those who either weren't interested in academic works, don't have the time or other reasons. perhaps i didn't make that clear enough maybe. my quick summary/recall of the wiki.
While working with female DV victims she found many (60ish pc) were not one sided victims but were also violent towards the male. Eg it was a violent household.
I suspect it's this concept that supports the view that the split is not as gender biased as some stats suggest.
that's extremely watered down. even the wiki is more expansive than that to be fair. feel free to add. I was trying to bridge the gap to help give a flavour of what they may expect from the wiki. "i'll let them read the wiki as already recommended, rather than attempt to condense what is already very concise. | |||
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"I dislike threads like this...all it shows is the hatred our society has built towards men You haven't read it, have you?" I have read enough | |||
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"Why are refugees places female only? Genuine question Surely the idea is to provide a safe space for people, away from their abuser Not a safe space for women, away from men Just feels a little odd. If your a DV victim in an interracial relationship, can you request a woman’s only, whites only refugee safe space? What about if your partner was also Muslim? Could we ask for women only, white only, non Muslim spaces? I always find it odd how we pick and choose who we can discriminate and group up together against. As another poster said, it’s not the gender. It’s the person. I dunno if any other guts feel this way either. But if I was a victim of DV my only choice is to my parents. I know there very little DV safe spaces for men, and I know how incredibly hard it would be to get my case across as a male victim because female on male violence is still a joke. Sucks knowing I’d be left to fend for myself in that kinda situation You wouldn't be left fend for yourself though because the local authority has a duty to find you somewhere safe if you are fleeing domestic violence. There is a reason that women's refuges are female only spaces and that is as it is a temporary safe haven where women and children are normally very traumatised. Most of the women and children would feel safer in an all female environment and remember women's refuges are very temporary solutions. They are initially places to escape and feel safe but also to take a breath and start the recovery process. You can discriminate in certain situations and always have been able to. For example if I as a woman wanted to advertise for a female carer I could. Lots of local authorities have a duty to do many things they don’t actually do sadly. Any guy that’s been a victim of DV can tell you that. I don’t feel safe in that regard. I have zero faith in the system to help or protect me in that kinda situation, no matter what the law says. And I’d imagine many men feel the same way I’d love to here some stories from guys that were victims and got help. Their story. If there is any on here? " Why not start the ball rolling, get more like minded men, apply for a grant and maybe you'll create something selfless to support others  | |||
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"Refuges for females victims of DV are already women only. It's rare if at all that men are allowed in to visit etc I don't know but I'd like to think all men ones exist too? Talk of banning trans tho on certain circumstances Actually no you are wrong. Anybody who is trans that has physically transitioned will be considered female in relation to being housed in a women's refuge. Anyone who is trans but has not transitioned physically will be found alternative safe accommodation and to me that makes perfect sense and is completely reasonable. " Quite so; that seems entirely reasonable. | |||
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"As long as it is just for actual women then good. Penises do not belong in refuges." Agreed. | |||
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"I dislike threads like this...all it shows is the hatred our society has built towards men Does society have a hatred towards men really? I've been the victim of physical abuse by my father, and a victim of physical and sexual abuse by my ex husband. But I don't hate men, I hate those two men I will admit. But I have two young sons, they're going to grow into men. I definitely don't hate them, neither do I hate my uncles who are super cool. My best friends Dad is an absolute legend, and I adore him. And there are many more men in my life that I love, like, admire. What I am is suspicious of men I don't know. That is different to hatred. " | |||
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"Reports that hostels for abused women could be all female only in certain circumstances.. Make sense of that one? They should be. End of "Indeed. | |||
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"I dislike threads like this...all it shows is the hatred our society has built towards men " I'm not feeling that at all. In fact, when my ex wife was abusing me, I had enormous support from her mum and sister. Her mum even sent me round a box of food just after I'd left her as she knew I was skint. | |||
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" The part I find unfair is the unequal support offered to men in DV situations Campaign to change it then I have to agree. Women have done a huge amount of work for decades to gain safe spaces, laws, legislation (eg upskirting bill) and support. I simply do not see that level of campaigning from men. I do see a lot of "what about men" comments here and elsewhere though. I can kinda see why some women find that somewhat galling. It's also (I think) why there is often a clash between women and trans women about resources such as refuges and toilets. I think there’s still a problem that men feel they can’t campaign about it for fear of being ridiculed and mocked. Or not taken seriously To take an issue with society, throw it at men and say “deal with it” isn’t fair. We should all work towards better stuff for everyone." I've been ridiculed and mocked for campaigning for women's reproductive rights. I've also had worse than that. Women died to get the vote. Obviously in this day and age things shouldn't come to those kinds of extremes but campaigning and protesting never comes without resistance and criticism or you wouldn't need to do it in the first place. Working together means supporting people to fight for their rights or against their injustices but they still need to lead their own movement. | |||
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