FabSwingers.com mobile

Join us FREE, we're FREE to use

Web's largest swingers site since 2006.

Already registered?
Login here

Back to forum list
Back to The Lounge

Toxic Femininity!

Jump to newest
 

By *uitednbooted2 OP   Man
over a year ago

Berkshire

Great article in the paper the other day bringing attention to comments by Rebel Wilson who presented the BAFTAs . She basically directed some sexual innuendos to Daniel Craig and Tom Hiddleston. The point being is that if a male presenter had cracked a joke about ‘having a go on Lady Gaga or sitting on Salma Hayek’ the internet would have crashed. Discuss !!

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *avie65Man
over a year ago

In the west.

Popcorn, popcorn. £2 a bag.

Salt

Sweet

Butterkist.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Men are shit.

Women can say and do as they please.

Reparations for men being so shit.

That’s all I’ve got.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Be careful not to cross the _______ + oops

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I guess the difference is whether you are pinching up or down, and anyone who criticises her for what she said had better have a solid on the record history of also complaining when men say similar or it’s plain misogyny in PC clothing

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

But it’s just bantz innit.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *emorefridaCouple
over a year ago

La la land

I didn't watch the BAFTAs to be honest. But creepy sexual innuendos are wrong regardless of which gender it comes from, and should be called out.

Though I would add I take toxic femininity to mean something else. I take it as playing up to female stereotype to get away with things. For example, hitting a man and saying nobody would believe them because she's female. I maybe wrong and happy to be corrected.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I saw something, where Rebel Wilson said something similar to Iris Elba..while presenting or hosting something. You could see the discomfort on his face.

Totally inappropriate/sexual harassment maybe? but not what I'd call toxic femininity.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 18/03/22 13:47:36]

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I didn't watch the BAFTAs to be honest. But creepy sexual innuendos are wrong regardless of which gender it comes from, and should be called out.

Though I would add I take toxic femininity to mean something else. I take it as playing up to female stereotype to get away with things. For example, hitting a man and saying nobody would believe them because she's female. I maybe wrong and happy to be corrected. "

Yup the title and contents of this thread don’t really match.

And you’re right, anyone who thinks the sides here are man v woman as opposed to people behaving one way V others who do not is already predisposed to a biased opinion

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"But it’s just bantz innit."

This exactly

I have no issue with men talking to women like that either though I'm a really shit woman though.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Popcorn, popcorn. £2 a bag.

Salt

Sweet

Butterkist. "

I will join you my brother,Bringing some and cider

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I didn't watch the BAFTAs to be honest. But creepy sexual innuendos are wrong regardless of which gender it comes from, and should be called out.

Though I would add I take toxic femininity to mean something else. I take it as playing up to female stereotype to get away with things. For example, hitting a man and saying nobody would believe them because she's female. I maybe wrong and happy to be corrected.

Yup the title and contents of this thread don’t really match.

And you’re right, anyone who thinks the sides here are man v woman as opposed to people behaving one way V others who do not is already predisposed to a biased opinion"

This is one of my biggest bugbears. Are there gender biases for certain behaviour? Of course. Does this mean that the exact same behaviour doesn't get exhibited by both genders? Absolutely not. Yet we inevitably concentrate on the gender of the person committing the crime not the crime itself. This not only leaves a bunch of people who are the "wrong" gender to be considered a victim very vulnerable but also means that efforts to resolve the issues are gendered and thus ignore many of the causes.

Mr

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *lairekTV/TS
over a year ago

Manchester

These sort of topics are created by middle class people, and their media associates, to try and convince the masses that it's all we should care about.

The reality on the ground for poor men or poor women is much more grounded and mundane. Can I get to work and not break down? Affording my bus fare. Paying the rent increase. Worried about heating etc

So many of these real issues unite men and women, they don't divide. Ignore the media and their games.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ighty_tightyMan
over a year ago

Norfolk/Suffolk

Poor Craig and Tom, I'm sure they wouldn't have minded if it was someone else but that Rebel bint is

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"These sort of topics are created by middle class people, and their media associates, to try and convince the masses that it's all we should care about.

The reality on the ground for poor men or poor women is much more grounded and mundane. Can I get to work and not break down? Affording my bus fare. Paying the rent increase. Worried about heating etc

So many of these real issues unite men and women, they don't divide. Ignore the media and their games."
well said x April the 1st 50% hike in gas and electricity prices x gonna be bad next winter loads of old folk choosing between heating or feeding x all done by design of coarse

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Poor Craig and Tom, I'm sure they wouldn't have minded if it was someone else but that Rebel bint is "

Eh? That Rebel bint? Charming. Her bad behaviour isn't an excuse to continue it

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 18/03/22 14:06:04]

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Poor Craig and Tom, I'm sure they wouldn't have minded if it was someone else but that Rebel bint is "

Gotcha, hot women can behave however the fuck they like, morals and ethics only apply to munters

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ighty_tightyMan
over a year ago

Norfolk/Suffolk


""Poor Craig and Tom, I'm sure they wouldn't have minded if it was someone else but that Rebel bint is "

Eh? That Rebel bint? Charming. Her bad behaviour isn't an excuse to continue it

Poor Craig and Tom, I'm sure they wouldn't have minded if it was someone else but that Rebel bint is

Gotcha, hot women can behave however the fuck they like, morals and ethics only apply to munters "

She's allowed to be funny, others aren't. My point exactly. Thanks for agreeing with me you too

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


""Poor Craig and Tom, I'm sure they wouldn't have minded if it was someone else but that Rebel bint is "

Eh? That Rebel bint? Charming. Her bad behaviour isn't an excuse to continue it

Poor Craig and Tom, I'm sure they wouldn't have minded if it was someone else but that Rebel bint is

Gotcha, hot women can behave however the fuck they like, morals and ethics only apply to munters

She's allowed to be funny, others aren't. My point exactly. Thanks for agreeing with me you too"

But your point was .. she wasn’t… cos she’s a bint?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ighty_tightyMan
over a year ago

Norfolk/Suffolk


""Poor Craig and Tom, I'm sure they wouldn't have minded if it was someone else but that Rebel bint is "

Eh? That Rebel bint? Charming. Her bad behaviour isn't an excuse to continue it

Poor Craig and Tom, I'm sure they wouldn't have minded if it was someone else but that Rebel bint is

Gotcha, hot women can behave however the fuck they like, morals and ethics only apply to munters

She's allowed to be funny, others aren't. My point exactly. Thanks for agreeing with me you too

But your point was .. she wasn’t… cos she’s a bint?"

Personal opinion, she's annoying as hell.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


""Poor Craig and Tom, I'm sure they wouldn't have minded if it was someone else but that Rebel bint is "

Eh? That Rebel bint? Charming. Her bad behaviour isn't an excuse to continue it

Poor Craig and Tom, I'm sure they wouldn't have minded if it was someone else but that Rebel bint is

Gotcha, hot women can behave however the fuck they like, morals and ethics only apply to munters

She's allowed to be funny, others aren't. My point exactly. Thanks for agreeing with me you too

But your point was .. she wasn’t… cos she’s a bint?

Personal opinion, she's annoying as hell."

Gotcha, people you like can get away with anything, the rest should have the book thrown at them

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


""Poor Craig and Tom, I'm sure they wouldn't have minded if it was someone else but that Rebel bint is "

Eh? That Rebel bint? Charming. Her bad behaviour isn't an excuse to continue it

Poor Craig and Tom, I'm sure they wouldn't have minded if it was someone else but that Rebel bint is

Gotcha, hot women can behave however the fuck they like, morals and ethics only apply to munters

She's allowed to be funny, others aren't. My point exactly. Thanks for agreeing with me you too"

I certainly didn't agree with you.

Not sure what you're trying to do but it's confusing!

I'm off out to enjoy the sun.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *emorefridaCouple
over a year ago

La la land


"I didn't watch the BAFTAs to be honest. But creepy sexual innuendos are wrong regardless of which gender it comes from, and should be called out.

Though I would add I take toxic femininity to mean something else. I take it as playing up to female stereotype to get away with things. For example, hitting a man and saying nobody would believe them because she's female. I maybe wrong and happy to be corrected.

Yup the title and contents of this thread don’t really match.

And you’re right, anyone who thinks the sides here are man v woman as opposed to people behaving one way V others who do not is already predisposed to a biased opinion

This is one of my biggest bugbears. Are there gender biases for certain behaviour? Of course. Does this mean that the exact same behaviour doesn't get exhibited by both genders? Absolutely not. Yet we inevitably concentrate on the gender of the person committing the crime not the crime itself. This not only leaves a bunch of people who are the "wrong" gender to be considered a victim very vulnerable but also means that efforts to resolve the issues are gendered and thus ignore many of the causes.

Mr"

Totally agree, call out the act not the gender. For example domestic abuse is abhorrent regardless of the gender committing it.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *annaBeStrongMan
over a year ago

wokingham

Wouldn’t call that toxic femininity. Just crude jokes and double standards

You do see toxic femininity on here though. I remember a thread a while back where a few female posters were basically saying they’d think less of a man if he wasn’t willing to fight another guy

It’s enabling certain views/actions that make it toxic in my opinion and other women should be calling their mates out on this kinda behaviour and thought patterns instead of turning a blind eye

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

With things like this I think it’s obvious and that we all agree that it can be incredibly inappropriate to objectify or make inappropriate comments at people that are minding their business. I would only say in this context that the difference in outrage may (rightly or wrongly is up to you) be because of the historical context in which the joke is placed upon? Me getting on stage and objectifying a bunch of women is done so in the context of centuries of of oppression and the differences in gendered violence against women. The objectification of male bodies isn’t always so hard for us to hear in terms of it not having the same historical weight. I say this considering the way that Lena Dunham oversexualised Odell Beckham Jr and was called out for the racism of oversexualisng Black men and subsequently she apologised.

Anyway I think discussion is good and this is not aimed at you, OP, but the writers of articles like these, what is the intention behind these discussions? Is it to present men as equal victims of these issues?- they’re not. Is it to present these issues as more important than we realise? Maybe this is it. But I fear that the only actual consequences are that it slightly downplays and belittles the experiences of women, often almost daily, with this kind of objectification and harassment. I don’t know. Just some thoughts. I’ve just woken up so forgive me if it’s not all that great and really LONG.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Great article in the paper the other day bringing attention to comments by Rebel Wilson who presented the BAFTAs . She basically directed some sexual innuendos to Daniel Craig and Tom Hiddleston. The point being is that if a male presenter had cracked a joke about ‘having a go on Lady Gaga or sitting on Salma Hayek’ the internet would have crashed. Discuss !!"
I would say this is more double standards than toxic femininity.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ealitybitesMan
over a year ago

Belfast

Many moons ago, well about 3 years actually, I was always wary of criticising certain comments or attitudes from women on the forums because I wrongly assumed I would be eaten by the lions or trampled by the white steeds.

I have since learned that many other women can see these particular traits and aren't afraid to pull them on their questionable behaviour.

There are still a certain sector of the community though that will excuse anything a woman says either because it keeps them in their good graces with a the possibility of getting in their knickers or because they are of the opinion that women are immune to criticism.

I tend to treat everyone equally and if someone acts like a prick they should be told even if they don't actually have one.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Great article in the paper the other day bringing attention to comments by Rebel Wilson who presented the BAFTAs . She basically directed some sexual innuendos to Daniel Craig and Tom Hiddleston. The point being is that if a male presenter had cracked a joke about ‘having a go on Lady Gaga or sitting on Salma Hayek’ the internet would have crashed. Discuss !!

I would say this is more double standards than toxic femininity. "

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Great article in the paper the other day bringing attention to comments by Rebel Wilson who presented the BAFTAs . She basically directed some sexual innuendos to Daniel Craig and Tom Hiddleston. The point being is that if a male presenter had cracked a joke about ‘having a go on Lady Gaga or sitting on Salma Hayek’ the internet would have crashed. Discuss !!"

It's just the times we now live in unfortunately , everything a person says is scrutinized whereas before they would be taken exactly as they were ment to be ..light hearted .It's just not at places like the BAFTAS, people in work places have to be so careful , one word that " seems " out of place results in sacking.Its just the way it is .

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *atnip make me purrWoman
over a year ago

Reading

To me toxic femininity is when women use their sexuality to control men. But it's very different from toxic masculity because men are complicit in it. For certainty there are toxic people of both genders.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ockosaurusMan
over a year ago

Warwick


"I saw something, where Rebel Wilson said something similar to Iris Elba..while presenting or hosting something. You could see the discomfort on his face.

Totally inappropriate/sexual harassment maybe? but not what I'd call toxic femininity. "

She said:

"Sorry, Idris Elba... You're making me a bit nervous. But I'm just psychologically programmed to want chocolate on Valentine's Day."

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *wist my nipplesCouple
over a year ago

North East Scotland, mostly


"With things like this I think it’s obvious and that we all agree that it can be incredibly inappropriate to objectify or make inappropriate comments at people that are minding their business. I would only say in this context that the difference in outrage may (rightly or wrongly is up to you) be because of the historical context in which the joke is placed upon? Me getting on stage and objectifying a bunch of women is done so in the context of centuries of of oppression and the differences in gendered violence against women. The objectification of male bodies isn’t always so hard for us to hear in terms of it not having the same historical weight. I say this considering the way that Lena Dunham oversexualised Odell Beckham Jr and was called out for the racism of oversexualisng Black men and subsequently she apologised.

Anyway I think discussion is good and this is not aimed at you, OP, but the writers of articles like these, what is the intention behind these discussions? Is it to present men as equal victims of these issues?- they’re not. Is it to present these issues as more important than we realise? Maybe this is it. But I fear that the only actual consequences are that it slightly downplays and belittles the experiences of women, often almost daily, with this kind of objectification and harassment. I don’t know. Just some thoughts. I’ve just woken up so forgive me if it’s not all that great and really LONG. "

You said it better than I ever could, Steve.

Mrs TMN x

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ickJMan
over a year ago

Hemel Hempstead


"Popcorn, popcorn. £2 a bag.

Salt

Sweet

Butterkist. "

I'll have some ice cream if you've got any. I find that popcorn gets stuck in my teeth somewhat.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *agic.MMan
over a year ago

Orpington

Double Standards are not ok...sexual remarks are not OK...sexual harassment is not OK...however the men that are the subject of this need to speak up against these issues. A silly sexual joke becomes a sexual remark...a sexual remark becomes verbal sexual harassment....verbal sexual harassment becomes physical sexual harassment. I remember when Rita Ora just decided to rip Zac Efron's shirt on stage because she thought it was cute...it wasn't...it was harresment (Zac himself said later he felt uncomfortable about it).

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I saw something, where Rebel Wilson said something similar to Iris Elba..while presenting or hosting something. You could see the discomfort on his face.

Totally inappropriate/sexual harassment maybe? but not what I'd call toxic femininity.

She said:

"Sorry, Idris Elba... You're making me a bit nervous. But I'm just psychologically programmed to want chocolate on Valentine's Day.""

Crikey, that is bad

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"With things like this I think it’s obvious and that we all agree that it can be incredibly inappropriate to objectify or make inappropriate comments at people that are minding their business. I would only say in this context that the difference in outrage may (rightly or wrongly is up to you) be because of the historical context in which the joke is placed upon? Me getting on stage and objectifying a bunch of women is done so in the context of centuries of of oppression and the differences in gendered violence against women. The objectification of male bodies isn’t always so hard for us to hear in terms of it not having the same historical weight. I say this considering the way that Lena Dunham oversexualised Odell Beckham Jr and was called out for the racism of oversexualisng Black men and subsequently she apologised.

Anyway I think discussion is good and this is not aimed at you, OP, but the writers of articles like these, what is the intention behind these discussions? Is it to present men as equal victims of these issues?- they’re not. Is it to present these issues as more important than we realise? Maybe this is it. But I fear that the only actual consequences are that it slightly downplays and belittles the experiences of women, often almost daily, with this kind of objectification and harassment. I don’t know. Just some thoughts. I’ve just woken up so forgive me if it’s not all that great and really LONG.

You said it better than I ever could, Steve.

Mrs TMN x"

Not true but

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I saw something, where Rebel Wilson said something similar to Iris Elba..while presenting or hosting something. You could see the discomfort on his face.

Totally inappropriate/sexual harassment maybe? but not what I'd call toxic femininity.

She said:

"Sorry, Idris Elba... You're making me a bit nervous. But I'm just psychologically programmed to want chocolate on Valentine's Day.""

Yikes. Yikes yikes yikes.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"To me toxic femininity is when women use their sexuality to control men. But it's very different from toxic masculity because men are complicit in it. For certainty there are toxic people of both genders."

Because men are complicit? Not sure what you mean by that.

Mr

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *avie65Man
over a year ago

In the west.


"Popcorn, popcorn. £2 a bag.

Salt

Sweet

Butterkist.

I'll have some ice cream if you've got any. I find that popcorn gets stuck in my teeth somewhat."

Choc ice?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *avie65Man
over a year ago

In the west.


"Popcorn, popcorn. £2 a bag.

Salt

Sweet

Butterkist.

I will join you my brother,Bringing some and cider"

As in cola?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By * and R cple4Couple
over a year ago

swansea

A prime example I think is Amber heard everyone was so willing to get on the band wagon and call out Jonny Depp for being a abuser and a awful person

.But the more you read on the subject the more you realise how much she’s gotten away with due to her being a female and how vile she actually is .

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

Women can get away with what men can't! U only have to read the forums sometimes to know that sadly x

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *jorkishMan
over a year ago

Seaforth


"A prime example I think is Amber heard everyone was so willing to get on the band wagon and call out Jonny Depp for being a abuser and a awful person

.But the more you read on the subject the more you realise how much she’s gotten away with due to her being a female and how vile she actually is ."

If everything you read is to be believed about her or Depp.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *agic.MMan
over a year ago

Orpington


"To me toxic femininity is when women use their sexuality to control men. But it's very different from toxic masculity because men are complicit in it. For certainty there are toxic people of both genders."

You can say the same thing about women being complicit to toxic femininity ( if toxic femininity is sexual manipulation) with the "believe all women" ideology. Most women will not believe a woman would make up false sexual allegations ( and although it is a small percentage, it still happens) and will protect a woman who says she is a victim without looking into the matter. Most women don't believe another woman would assault a man unless he had done something to her (that's also not always the case). Both men and women can be complicit...Good people will stand up against toxicity

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *emorefridaCouple
over a year ago

La la land

Actually been pondering this as I understand exactly what I think toxic masculinity is. Heck it's even got a page on Wikipedia, which defines it as

"The concept of toxic masculinity is used in academic and media discussions of masculinity to refer to certain cultural norms that are associated with harm to society and men themselves."

It's strange that when I think of toxic femininity it's not in the same context. And it's how women use their femininity to the detriment of men.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Actually been pondering this as I understand exactly what I think toxic masculinity is. Heck it's even got a page on Wikipedia, which defines it as

"The concept of toxic masculinity is used in academic and media discussions of masculinity to refer to certain cultural norms that are associated with harm to society and men themselves."

It's strange that when I think of toxic femininity it's not in the same context. And it's how women use their femininity to the detriment of men. "

Toxic femininity is essentially a way for women to sabotage others by using her traditionally feminine qualities.

It is where a woman’s response to a long-standing threat of failure, underappreciation, or a need to prove herself over her male peers reacts by resenting the women around her who are fighting the same battles.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ora the explorerWoman
over a year ago

Paradise, Herts


"Women can get away with what men can't! U only have to read the forums sometimes to know that sadly x"

This totally!

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *emorefridaCouple
over a year ago

La la land


"Actually been pondering this as I understand exactly what I think toxic masculinity is. Heck it's even got a page on Wikipedia, which defines it as

"The concept of toxic masculinity is used in academic and media discussions of masculinity to refer to certain cultural norms that are associated with harm to society and men themselves."

It's strange that when I think of toxic femininity it's not in the same context. And it's how women use their femininity to the detriment of men.

Toxic femininity is essentially a way for women to sabotage others by using her traditionally feminine qualities.

It is where a woman’s response to a long-standing threat of failure, underappreciation, or a need to prove herself over her male peers reacts by resenting the women around her who are fighting the same battles."

Do you think it's more than that though? Like the pressure not to age? To be a perfect mother whilst trying to progress your career? Is it always an agression towards others? Or is it sometimes an internal pressure?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma


"Actually been pondering this as I understand exactly what I think toxic masculinity is. Heck it's even got a page on Wikipedia, which defines it as

"The concept of toxic masculinity is used in academic and media discussions of masculinity to refer to certain cultural norms that are associated with harm to society and men themselves."

It's strange that when I think of toxic femininity it's not in the same context. And it's how women use their femininity to the detriment of men.

Toxic femininity is essentially a way for women to sabotage others by using her traditionally feminine qualities.

It is where a woman’s response to a long-standing threat of failure, underappreciation, or a need to prove herself over her male peers reacts by resenting the women around her who are fighting the same battles."

I do sometimes wonder where all these terms and phrases originate from. Who sits down and decides that they are going to label a persons behaviour, feelings, beliefs or feelings?

I do feel it feeds peoples love of judgment in a legitimate way, if after all it is socially acceptable to label someone, it is now acceptable to judge under the label.

I also notice that rarely people can agree what these terms and phrases actually mean, they seem to morph into the verbal rope needed too hang someone out to dry.

People do like to use all these terms and phrases though, I guess they wont go away while people love to judge and be judged.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Actually been pondering this as I understand exactly what I think toxic masculinity is. Heck it's even got a page on Wikipedia, which defines it as

"The concept of toxic masculinity is used in academic and media discussions of masculinity to refer to certain cultural norms that are associated with harm to society and men themselves."

It's strange that when I think of toxic femininity it's not in the same context. And it's how women use their femininity to the detriment of men.

Toxic femininity is essentially a way for women to sabotage others by using her traditionally feminine qualities.

It is where a woman’s response to a long-standing threat of failure, underappreciation, or a need to prove herself over her male peers reacts by resenting the women around her who are fighting the same battles.

Do you think it's more than that though? Like the pressure not to age? To be a perfect mother whilst trying to progress your career? Is it always an agression towards others? Or is it sometimes an internal pressure? "

I think in the category, there’s also internal pressures to be a certain type of woman that has to fit a certain stereotype given by others.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *isfits behaving badlyCouple
over a year ago

Coventry

I think that's because she a strong, bad ass, woman who knows what she wants. As opposed to all them toxic misogynistic male's. At least that's how you can look at it on the surface and is kind of the way society rolls at the moment.

However to look at it another way what is the terrible side effect at the moment of this "toxic femininity"? To what extent are men facing degrading and uncomfortable sexualised comments all the time? Do these reinforce negative sterotypes that affect mens everyday life? And do these have the same negative effect on men as the do women?

Seems to me if you investigate beyond the instant reaction of hypocrisy your find its a case of comparing apples and pears. And maybe this is why we struggle to have equal banter, because we are still not on an even footing in society. I think its sad and im not comfortable with the hypocrisy. But I also see this situation is side effect of the society we have formed over centuries. Maybe one day when all people feel of equal worth in society we can all have great banter with and at each others expense. But until we have that society it's still not going to be a like for like comparison.

Mr

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ife NinjaMan
over a year ago

Dunfermline


"I saw something, where Rebel Wilson said something similar to Iris Elba..while presenting or hosting something. You could see the discomfort on his face.

Totally inappropriate/sexual harassment maybe? but not what I'd call toxic femininity.

She said:

"Sorry, Idris Elba... You're making me a bit nervous. But I'm just psychologically programmed to want chocolate on Valentine's Day.""

That's just crass

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford


"I didn't watch the BAFTAs to be honest. But creepy sexual innuendos are wrong regardless of which gender it comes from, and should be called out.

Though I would add I take toxic femininity to mean something else. I take it as playing up to female stereotype to get away with things. For example, hitting a man and saying nobody would believe them because she's female. I maybe wrong and happy to be corrected.

Yup the title and contents of this thread don’t really match.

And you’re right, anyone who thinks the sides here are man v woman as opposed to people behaving one way V others who do not is already predisposed to a biased opinion

This is one of my biggest bugbears. Are there gender biases for certain behaviour? Of course. Does this mean that the exact same behaviour doesn't get exhibited by both genders? Absolutely not. Yet we inevitably concentrate on the gender of the person committing the crime not the crime itself. This not only leaves a bunch of people who are the "wrong" gender to be considered a victim very vulnerable but also means that efforts to resolve the issues are gendered and thus ignore many of the causes.

Mr"

For once Tom totally agrees with a very insightful summing up .. very well said Sir .

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I remember her banter with Idris Elba. Awful. I looked up what she said this year:

"when announcing the next award would be for “best score”, she said: “Mine was last time I was at the BAFTAs and I got Idris Elba’s phone number.”

She also said the biggest prize in British cinema would be "having a go on Tom Hiddleston".

According to The Sun, Rebel showed off a fake tattoo on her leg that resembled the Bond star.

She showed off a tattoo of Daniel Craig on her leg and said "It looks like the word LOO – but I know which I would rather sit on," she reportedly quipped.

If a man said these things about a woman I'd think they were tasteless and insulting. Same goes here. Rebel Wilson was allowed to tell those jokes. They had to have been seen beforehand. That's unacceptable.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

She sounds like a soppy tart and not to be taken seriously.

If she ever starts with the 'me too' stuff she wants shooting

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

It's potentially offensive but no toxicity though

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I saw something, where Rebel Wilson said something similar to Iris Elba..while presenting or hosting something. You could see the discomfort on his face.

Totally inappropriate/sexual harassment maybe? but not what I'd call toxic femininity.

She said:

"Sorry, Idris Elba... You're making me a bit nervous. But I'm just psychologically programmed to want chocolate on Valentine's Day.""

I thought it was quite recent for some reason but its actually from 2016, I think.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It's potentially offensive but no toxicity though "

Just potentially offensive? "Having a go" at a guy?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *imi_RougeWoman
over a year ago

Portsmouth

Why do people find it easier to call a woman out for doing it though?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Why do people find it easier to call a woman out for doing it though? "

Why do you say they do? I'd have said the other way round

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London


"Wouldn’t call that toxic femininity. Just crude jokes and double standards

You do see toxic femininity on here though. I remember a thread a while back where a few female posters were basically saying they’d think less of a man if he wasn’t willing to fight another guy

It’s enabling certain views/actions that make it toxic in my opinion and other women should be calling their mates out on this kinda behaviour and thought patterns instead of turning a blind eye "

Whilst I agree women shouldn't make those comments, and should call each out on it, that's not "toxic femininity".

That's women supporting toxic masculinity - the idea that real men are aggressive. It's about masculinity, not femininity.

The phrase "toxic x" doesn't mean an example of someone from group x doing a toxic thing.

It means an example of socially expected/accepted behaviour of group x which is toxic.

So an example of toxic femininity might potentially be women enforcing beauty standards on each other - but I don't think you can separate that from the ways men enforce those standards on women too.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *instonandLadyAstorCouple
over a year ago

Not where we seem to be...


"It's potentially offensive but no toxicity though

Just potentially offensive? "Having a go" at a guy? "

Offensive is subjective. What you and I find offensive is likely to differ. Those differences make neither of us right or wrong.

Was Idris Elba offended? He was the target of the comment after all. As the target of the comment it's up to him to call offensive or not.

No one else has skin in the game, other than Rebel Wilson and Idris Elba.

Winston

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It's potentially offensive but no toxicity though

Just potentially offensive? "Having a go" at a guy?

Offensive is subjective. What you and I find offensive is likely to differ. Those differences make neither of us right or wrong.

Was Idris Elba offended? He was the target of the comment after all. As the target of the comment it's up to him to call offensive or not.

No one else has skin in the game, other than Rebel Wilson and Idris Elba.

Winston

"

I think an highly public event like the BAFTA where anyone is talked about in that way is showing that it's ok to objectify others. That encourages others to think it's acceptable. So at the same time there are national campaigns to reduce sexual harassment on the tube- it's ok to talk about men in that manner on the BAFTAs? A show seen by an estimated 2.9 million people.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham


"It's potentially offensive but no toxicity though

Just potentially offensive? "Having a go" at a guy? "

Yes potentially, because some guys will be ok about it and some won't. So "potentially" was a carefully chosen and correct word to use

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It's potentially offensive but no toxicity though

Just potentially offensive? "Having a go" at a guy?

Yes potentially, because some guys will be ok about it and some won't. So "potentially" was a carefully chosen and correct word to use "

We don't often disagree. But as I replied to Windsor, I think talking about people in a highly sexualised way in those circumstances is appalling. I already didn't like Rebel Wilson. I'm absolutely sure she's a self-centred misandrist who isn't funny.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It's potentially offensive but no toxicity though

Just potentially offensive? "Having a go" at a guy?

Yes potentially, because some guys will be ok about it and some won't. So "potentially" was a carefully chosen and correct word to use

We don't often disagree. But as I replied to Windsor, I think talking about people in a highly sexualised way in those circumstances is appalling. I already didn't like Rebel Wilson. I'm absolutely sure she's a self-centred misandrist who isn't funny. "

I will go further. It was the UK's premier awards ceremony to recognise talent in the film and tv industry. A professional event. To be making sexual jokes objectifying some of those professionals is nauseating.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ellinever70Woman
over a year ago

Ayrshire

Is the point being that she was trying to get people to realise what women in her industry, and in general, face on a daily basis and it often goes unchallenged?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *instonandLadyAstorCouple
over a year ago

Not where we seem to be...


"It's potentially offensive but no toxicity though

Just potentially offensive? "Having a go" at a guy?

Offensive is subjective. What you and I find offensive is likely to differ. Those differences make neither of us right or wrong.

Was Idris Elba offended? He was the target of the comment after all. As the target of the comment it's up to him to call offensive or not.

No one else has skin in the game, other than Rebel Wilson and Idris Elba.

Winston

I think an highly public event like the BAFTA where anyone is talked about in that way is showing that it's ok to objectify others. That encourages others to think it's acceptable. So at the same time there are national campaigns to reduce sexual harassment on the tube- it's ok to talk about men in that manner on the BAFTAs? A show seen by an estimated 2.9 million people. "

You questioned that it was "potentially offensive". That's what I was referencing.

It appears to have been considered acceptable by the producers. Not sure they're the arbiters of good taste. It appears not.

Was it appropriate given the event and the audience? I'd say not.

Winston

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Is the point being that she was trying to get people to realise what women in her industry, and in general, face on a daily basis and it often goes unchallenged?"

Rebel Wilson being well known for her feminist stance? Unlikely.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Is the point being that she was trying to get people to realise what women in her industry, and in general, face on a daily basis and it often goes unchallenged?"

Good point.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

We all know what toxic feminity is and it's not a quality that is liked .

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham


"You questioned that it was "potentially offensive". That's what I was referencing."

Me too, doesn't mean it was right of her.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Why do people find it easier to call a woman out for doing it though?

Why do you say they do? I'd have said the other way round "

I agree!

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
Post new Message to Thread
back to top