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Violence against women and girls

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic.

*This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. *

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is still heart breaking in this age that women can't be safe on the streets or in their own home, often murdered by those they trusted most.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"It is still heart breaking in this age that women can't be safe on the streets or in their own home, often murdered by those they trusted most."

And it increases year on year. The last stat I saw was 139 women killed by a man in 2021.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It’s simply abhorrent to me.

Vile and cowardly acts committed by utter scum.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Thats what a real pussy is

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By *annaBeStrongMan
over a year ago

wokingham

An interesting thing I saw recently, should more non-lethal but effective methods of protecting yourself be made legal

One aspect of violence against women is the obvious physical advantage. Toe to toe most women don’t stand a chance against a man

Things like pepper spray can even those odds. The tiniest woman can incapacitate a guy with a well placed pepper spray. But they can’t currently under UK law

I’m not entirely sure where I stand on that, but it’s an interesting subject.

And I’m sure plenty of people will say “why do we have to protect ourselves! Men should stop being violent!”

And that’s true, but it’s not reality, and if a law could be passed that would potentially protect somewhere, I think it should at least be considered

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't think any rationale person can dismiss the statistic or make reference to other comparable matters such as violence against men.

As we know, data doesn't provide the answers but the questions to ask? Why is this, and will it ever change, where is it most prevalent and how can we address it effectively.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It is still heart breaking in this age that women can't be safe on the streets or in their own home, often murdered by those they trusted most.

And it increases year on year. The last stat I saw was 139 women killed by a man in 2021. "

And the official VAWG figure will be higher because the official definition includes offences perpetrated by males and females.

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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago

Dubai & Nottingham


"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic.

*This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. *"

Hope she checked the list with Anneliese Dodds, she seemed unable to define what a woman was on Tuesday.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"It’s simply abhorrent to me.

Vile and cowardly acts committed by utter scum.

"

Yes. And it's incomprehensible to me that a man would kill his own partner (ex-partner) but some of the women in the Femicide Census were murdered by partners.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"An interesting thing I saw recently, should more non-lethal but effective methods of protecting yourself be made legal

One aspect of violence against women is the obvious physical advantage. Toe to toe most women don’t stand a chance against a man

Things like pepper spray can even those odds. The tiniest woman can incapacitate a guy with a well placed pepper spray. But they can’t currently under UK law

I’m not entirely sure where I stand on that, but it’s an interesting subject.

And I’m sure plenty of people will say “why do we have to protect ourselves! Men should stop being violent!”

And that’s true, but it’s not reality, and if a law could be passed that would potentially protect somewhere, I think it should at least be considered "

Making pepper spray legal opens the door to it being used for other crimes. Or against the women themselves. I guess those are reasons why it remains illegal.

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By *etLikeMan
over a year ago

most fundamental aspects


"An interesting thing I saw recently, should more non-lethal but effective methods of protecting yourself be made legal

One aspect of violence against women is the obvious physical advantage. Toe to toe most women don’t stand a chance against a man

Things like pepper spray can even those odds. The tiniest woman can incapacitate a guy with a well placed pepper spray. But they can’t currently under UK law

I’m not entirely sure where I stand on that, but it’s an interesting subject.

And I’m sure plenty of people will say “why do we have to protect ourselves! Men should stop being violent!”

And that’s true, but it’s not reality, and if a law could be passed that would potentially protect somewhere, I think it should at least be considered "

The second part of your post I agree with. Education is key to changing behaviours.

The first part is potentially even more damaging. If as you say a man has generally a greater physical advantage over a woman, what is to say he won’t then use that pepper spray against her?

It’s been shown in the US that when ordinary (ie not gang members, law enforcement) carry a firearm for their own protection, the most likely person that firearm will be used on is them by an attacker, or in a struggle.

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By *adyBugsWoman
over a year ago

cognito

It hurts my heart that we are the ones who have to protect ourselves and we are still told to educate our daughters, granddaughters and nieces to always be on guard and paranoid that something could happen when all we want to do is just live our lives normally.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Is violence more prevalent within relationships or between relative strangers? I’d assume relationships?

A friend told me recently Clare’s Law is enacted so a woman can check a central register via local police if a man has been cautioned/arrested/charged/prosecuted for violence against women. Not sure how accurate this is but it’s a very good thing if it is.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *annaBeStrongMan
over a year ago

wokingham


"An interesting thing I saw recently, should more non-lethal but effective methods of protecting yourself be made legal

One aspect of violence against women is the obvious physical advantage. Toe to toe most women don’t stand a chance against a man

Things like pepper spray can even those odds. The tiniest woman can incapacitate a guy with a well placed pepper spray. But they can’t currently under UK law

I’m not entirely sure where I stand on that, but it’s an interesting subject.

And I’m sure plenty of people will say “why do we have to protect ourselves! Men should stop being violent!”

And that’s true, but it’s not reality, and if a law could be passed that would potentially protect somewhere, I think it should at least be considered

The second part of your post I agree with. Education is key to changing behaviours.

The first part is potentially even more damaging. If as you say a man has generally a greater physical advantage over a woman, what is to say he won’t then use that pepper spray against her?

It’s been shown in the US that when ordinary (ie not gang members, law enforcement) carry a firearm for their own protection, the most likely person that firearm will be used on is them by an attacker, or in a struggle.

"

My thought would be that I don’t need pepper spray against a woman, it’s not really an advantage for me to have it. Because I already have the physical advantage

But if a woman has it, it’s a huge advantage for her.

Just a few thoughts. As I said, I’m torn on it. Personally, I want my sisters and my mum and every woman I care about to be able to carry something that might save their lives

But there’s loads of very good counter points and I realise my bias in only looking at it from the best possible out come scenario

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By *xploring_FunWoman
over a year ago

Coventry


"Is violence more prevalent within relationships or between relative strangers? I’d assume relationships?

A friend told me recently Clare’s Law is enacted so a woman can check a central register via local police if a man has been cautioned/arrested/charged/prosecuted for violence against women. Not sure how accurate this is but it’s a very good thing if it is.

"

Within relationships.

Children are far more likely to be hurt or killed by a parent or step parent.

Women are most likely to be assaulted or murdered by their partner or ex partner than anyone else.

The figures for men are more even, but still more likely to be someone they know (although men are the most likely to be killed by a stranger).

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By *xploring_FunWoman
over a year ago

Coventry

The problem with things like pepper sprays is that they won’t help for the majority of the times when it’s needed.

No-one is going to have pepper spray in their pocket in their kitchen while cooking the family Sunday lunch. Yet they’re more likely to be assaulted then than they are walking down the street.

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By *ausage1970Man
over a year ago

Shrewsbury

All violence towards anyone is disgusting. But physical is often not the worst. Some people are attacked for many years in mentally abusive relationships that often are missed in figures gathered by government.

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford


" I don't think any rationale person can dismiss the statistic or make reference to other comparable matters such as violence against men.

As we know, data doesn't provide the answers but the questions to ask? Why is this, and will it ever change, where is it most prevalent and how can we address it effectively.

"

I carry a small can of spray deodorant in my basket front of my bike as I cycle to work at 3 in morning so allways dark and quiet! Not had to use it yet but it would be going straight in the eyes of an attacker x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I was actually watching something with a similar theme just today

The story is basicly an NFL player bet 1500 on games and was punished with a 1 year suspension losing 11 million dollars where as if he had beat up his girlfriend he would only be suspended a maximum 6 games my point is its a mad fucking world

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When I was very young my mums ex husband (not my dad) was, in his mind, given permission to do what he wanted, by the police, as he was informed he couldn’t be prosecuted, as she was his wife. I’m so relieved that times changed, but saddens me that so many women and girls are still facing violence.

I was told something similar, in the sense of being dismissive of it, by a lead nurse, as she told me domestic abuse wasn’t a justifiable reason for sickness leave. She was wrong, and actually breached their own protocols, as the hospital was already implementing the domestic abuse assessments at the time.

I feel saddened for the lives destroyed, and lost, because other people are unable to behave in a civilised manner x

Viv x

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By *teve_it_aloneMan
over a year ago

Dunfermline

We continue to raise generations with ingrained misogynistic and objectifying views of women. We need a public health and education based joint approach to tackling the issue. Unfortunately the people who should be responsible for delivering that are often the ones demonstrating problematic behaviours.

Even the well-intentioned old fashioned attitudes “always hold a door for a lady / always walk on the outside / never swear in front of a lady” are all based on a notion of women somehow being needing men to step in and protect them from the big bad world - when in truth it’s men are often the danger.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"It is still heart breaking in this age that women can't be safe on the streets or in their own home, often murdered by those they trusted most.

And it increases year on year. The last stat I saw was 139 women killed by a man in 2021.

And the official VAWG figure will be higher because the official definition includes offences perpetrated by males and females."

What official VAWG figure? The figures compiled for Jess Phillips are by a volunteer. Karen Ingala Smith. Murders committed by females number about one a year if that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The problem with things like pepper sprays is that they won’t help for the majority of the times when it’s needed.

No-one is going to have pepper spray in their pocket in their kitchen while cooking the family Sunday lunch. Yet they’re more likely to be assaulted then than they are walking down the street. "

Yep! My mum had a pan of boiling oil thrown over her, for apparently giving him a “look” as she was cooking the tea. It wasn’t a look, she couldn’t see properly through her black eyes! He battered me when I was 9, was always battering my brother and my mum, and liked to show his control in other ways too. The best day of our lives was her taking us, and running, when I was 16. My brother abhors violence against women, my sister and I tolerated it, but now we’re stronger too. I dread to think what would have happened to my mum, if she hadn’t have found her courage that night xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think education would be a good start. We have spent years teaching kids about stranger danger but not bothered to teach them about the kind of danger they're most likely to face.

Teach kids to recognise abuse, teach them that they have a voice, teach them that no matter how often they're told "no one will believe you" or "you will get in trouble if you report this" that these things won't happen.

As they get older teach them about healthy relationships, teach them what abusive and controlling behaviour is, how to recognise it - in themselves as well as when committed against them. Teach how to stop it esculating - in themselves and from others, to have self confidence enough to walk away.

It's all well and good saying this isn't the job of schools but the reality is domestic violence has gone on from the beginning of time - family cannot be relied on to sort the issue. Almost no one gets murdered as a first domestic attack, the failure is in dealing with the issue long long before it becomes another death.

Mr

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic.

*This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. *

Hope she checked the list with Anneliese Dodds, she seemed unable to define what a woman was on Tuesday."

No trans woman has been murdered in the UK in the last three years, if that's what you're referring to.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"We continue to raise generations with ingrained misogynistic and objectifying views of women. We need a public health and education based joint approach to tackling the issue. Unfortunately the people who should be responsible for delivering that are often the ones demonstrating problematic behaviours.

Even the well-intentioned old fashioned attitudes “always hold a door for a lady / always walk on the outside / never swear in front of a lady” are all based on a notion of women somehow being needing men to step in and protect them from the big bad world - when in truth it’s men are often the danger. "

I had to tell my daughter that the little boy in her class wasn’t hitting her because he liked her (I hate that that notion still exists) but that he was a bully, and she wasn’t to tolerate it.

I spoke to his dad about it, and he tried to bully my daughter, in front of his son, and get her to admit she’d over-reacted, as it was no different for us as kids. Pulled him up over it. Told him that hitting my daughter across the head with a ruler, pushing her over, making her cry and calling her names, wasn’t acceptable, and that his son wasn’t the victim, my daughter was!

It’s frightening that some men, are still teaching their sons that violence against girls/women is ok, as they did it

Viv xx

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Is violence more prevalent within relationships or between relative strangers? I’d assume relationships?

A friend told me recently Clare’s Law is enacted so a woman can check a central register via local police if a man has been cautioned/arrested/charged/prosecuted for violence against women. Not sure how accurate this is but it’s a very good thing if it is.

"

I haven't looked at the data for 2020 yet as it's only just released today but the figure for 2019 was something like 67% of women were killed by a partner or family member.

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By *emorefridaCouple
over a year ago

La la land

Pepper spray and everything is an option. But most of the victims are generally known by their attacker, so how many incidents would it reduce.

Education and support is what is needed. As a victim of domestic abuse, being told oh I didn't hit you that hard or I didn't mean to push you into wall is how it all started. Until it becomes kind of normal it's a bizzare thing and I can't explain what the hell was I thinking. But he crossed a hard line and I couldn't ignore or justify it anymore. But that leaving was horrific, the violence and abuse was ramped up as he realised he was loosing control.

What is needed is better information on how to get out safely. Yes there are shelters but they are often full. So you can't just leave leaving you in a truly terrifying situation.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"The problem with things like pepper sprays is that they won’t help for the majority of the times when it’s needed.

No-one is going to have pepper spray in their pocket in their kitchen while cooking the family Sunday lunch. Yet they’re more likely to be assaulted then than they are walking down the street. "

And tbh I'd be concerned that it could aggravate a domestic violence situation.

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By *annaBeStrongMan
over a year ago

wokingham


"The problem with things like pepper sprays is that they won’t help for the majority of the times when it’s needed.

No-one is going to have pepper spray in their pocket in their kitchen while cooking the family Sunday lunch. Yet they’re more likely to be assaulted then than they are walking down the street.

And tbh I'd be concerned that it could aggravate a domestic violence situation. "

Yeah I think my bias is that I’ve seen videos of people using it in the states and it’s so fucking effective

You don’t see videos of someone trying to use it and escalating the situation

There was a long thread of a feminist page about the banning of pepper spray being specifically aimed at keeping women from being able to protect themselves and it was kinda convincing. But a few posts here and definitely made me reconsider

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Pepper spray and everything is an option. But most of the victims are generally known by their attacker, so how many incidents would it reduce.

Education and support is what is needed. As a victim of domestic abuse, being told oh I didn't hit you that hard or I didn't mean to push you into wall is how it all started. Until it becomes kind of normal it's a bizzare thing and I can't explain what the hell was I thinking. But he crossed a hard line and I couldn't ignore or justify it anymore. But that leaving was horrific, the violence and abuse was ramped up as he realised he was loosing control.

What is needed is better information on how to get out safely. Yes there are shelters but they are often full. So you can't just leave leaving you in a truly terrifying situation. "

I was told if I left the house, with my girls, I was making myself deliberately homeless, and wouldn’t be given any assistance. So we stayed. I’d been with him since I was 17, he was all I knew. I should have left when I was 18 and pregnant, as that’s when it started, but I was so desperate to have a “family” with both parents, I decided it would be ok, he’d change, he loved me. It was having a child, who wasn’t disabled, like her sister, who would see that what was happening wasn’t right, and knowing I’d be teaching her the lessons my mum taught me, that eventually gave me the strength to leave. I didn’t want history repeating itself again x

Viv xx

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"All violence towards anyone is disgusting. But physical is often not the worst. Some people are attacked for many years in mentally abusive relationships that often are missed in figures gathered by government. "

There's no data on that at all that I know of. Coercive control only became a crime in 2015. I don't know what the conviction rate is. Many people don't realise they're being emotionally abused until they've left. I didn't.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 10/03/22 15:21:01]

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


" I don't think any rationale person can dismiss the statistic or make reference to other comparable matters such as violence against men.

As we know, data doesn't provide the answers but the questions to ask? Why is this, and will it ever change, where is it most prevalent and how can we address it effectively.

I carry a small can of spray deodorant in my basket front of my bike as I cycle to work at 3 in morning so allways dark and quiet! Not had to use it yet but it would be going straight in the eyes of an attacker x"

I hope you never ever need it x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think it’s more common that violence is prevalent within relationships or people we already know.

It is so fucking sad and scary

And some countries have an extremely high rate of violence against women that leads to murder

One of my mum’s closest friends was murdered by her ex husband … it still shocks me whenever we talk about her

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By *emorefridaCouple
over a year ago

La la land


"The problem with things like pepper sprays is that they won’t help for the majority of the times when it’s needed.

No-one is going to have pepper spray in their pocket in their kitchen while cooking the family Sunday lunch. Yet they’re more likely to be assaulted then than they are walking down the street.

And tbh I'd be concerned that it could aggravate a domestic violence situation.

Yeah I think my bias is that I’ve seen videos of people using it in the states and it’s so fucking effective

You don’t see videos of someone trying to use it and escalating the situation

There was a long thread of a feminist page about the banning of pepper spray being specifically aimed at keeping women from being able to protect themselves and it was kinda convincing. But a few posts here and definitely made me reconsider "

Think if my ex found that I had some hidden in the house. It would have led to more abuse towards me to be honest.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just REF: pepper spray.

Unfortunately that would inevitably mean that anyone could get their hands on it, men as well as women, and that could make things even worse if violent men carry it to help them attack victims.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Does the list include trans woman ?

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By *emorefridaCouple
over a year ago

La la land


"Pepper spray and everything is an option. But most of the victims are generally known by their attacker, so how many incidents would it reduce.

Education and support is what is needed. As a victim of domestic abuse, being told oh I didn't hit you that hard or I didn't mean to push you into wall is how it all started. Until it becomes kind of normal it's a bizzare thing and I can't explain what the hell was I thinking. But he crossed a hard line and I couldn't ignore or justify it anymore. But that leaving was horrific, the violence and abuse was ramped up as he realised he was loosing control.

What is needed is better information on how to get out safely. Yes there are shelters but they are often full. So you can't just leave leaving you in a truly terrifying situation.

I was told if I left the house, with my girls, I was making myself deliberately homeless, and wouldn’t be given any assistance. So we stayed. I’d been with him since I was 17, he was all I knew. I should have left when I was 18 and pregnant, as that’s when it started, but I was so desperate to have a “family” with both parents, I decided it would be ok, he’d change, he loved me. It was having a child, who wasn’t disabled, like her sister, who would see that what was happening wasn’t right, and knowing I’d be teaching her the lessons my mum taught me, that eventually gave me the strength to leave. I didn’t want history repeating itself again x

Viv xx"

We unfortunately have very similar stories. In my despiration to have a perfect relationship, following from abuse from Dad. My ex made sure he wasn't as bad as my Dad, so he'd say I was overreacting because of former trauma. It was when he hit me in front of my kids I knew I had to leave. I want my kids to know what love and relationships look like x

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"The problem with things like pepper sprays is that they won’t help for the majority of the times when it’s needed.

No-one is going to have pepper spray in their pocket in their kitchen while cooking the family Sunday lunch. Yet they’re more likely to be assaulted then than they are walking down the street.

Yep! My mum had a pan of boiling oil thrown over her, for apparently giving him a “look” as she was cooking the tea. It wasn’t a look, she couldn’t see properly through her black eyes! He battered me when I was 9, was always battering my brother and my mum, and liked to show his control in other ways too. The best day of our lives was her taking us, and running, when I was 16. My brother abhors violence against women, my sister and I tolerated it, but now we’re stronger too. I dread to think what would have happened to my mum, if she hadn’t have found her courage that night xx "

Your brave mum. It must have taken so much to walk away.

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By *jorkishMan
over a year ago

Seaforth

ALL violence against women and girls are abhorrent. Education starts in the home from an early age. How a father treats the mother will be carried forward - violence begets violence. A man treating his wife respectfully and vice versa sets a good example. Following this schools, colleges and universities play a role too. The Justice system needs an overhaul. Prisons should not just be punitive and but rehabilitating too. But all that takes years. We need now to provide escape routes for women and children that are SAFE and adequate. Police need to be more approachable and provide support for women and children. Women appearing in court should be made to feel they are safe and listened to.

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By *adyBugsWoman
over a year ago

cognito


"Pepper spray and everything is an option. But most of the victims are generally known by their attacker, so how many incidents would it reduce.

Education and support is what is needed. As a victim of domestic abuse, being told oh I didn't hit you that hard or I didn't mean to push you into wall is how it all started. Until it becomes kind of normal it's a bizzare thing and I can't explain what the hell was I thinking. But he crossed a hard line and I couldn't ignore or justify it anymore. But that leaving was horrific, the violence and abuse was ramped up as he realised he was loosing control.

What is needed is better information on how to get out safely. Yes there are shelters but they are often full. So you can't just leave leaving you in a truly terrifying situation. "

Not to mention that it doesn’t stop after people leave either. Post separation abuse can continue for years especially if children are part of the situation.

Thank you for sharing your story publicly, I’m glad you are in a safer space now.

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch


"I think education would be a good start. We have spent years teaching kids about stranger danger but not bothered to teach them about the kind of danger they're most likely to face.

Teach kids to recognise abuse, teach them that they have a voice, teach them that no matter how often they're told "no one will believe you" or "you will get in trouble if you report this" that these things won't happen.

As they get older teach them about healthy relationships, teach them what abusive and controlling behaviour is, how to recognise it - in themselves as well as when committed against them. Teach how to stop it esculating - in themselves and from others, to have self confidence enough to walk away.

It's all well and good saying this isn't the job of schools but the reality is domestic violence has gone on from the beginning of time - family cannot be relied on to sort the issue. Almost no one gets murdered as a first domestic attack, the failure is in dealing with the issue long long before it becomes another death.

Mr"

It is something that is now being taught at the appropriate age level. We’ve just had the detail of the Relationship & Sexual Education that is to be delivered next term. It covers, all of the above & more.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Is violence more prevalent within relationships or between relative strangers? I’d assume relationships?

A friend told me recently Clare’s Law is enacted so a woman can check a central register via local police if a man has been cautioned/arrested/charged/prosecuted for violence against women. Not sure how accurate this is but it’s a very good thing if it is.

"

Yes this is true, I personally know a few women and a man who used Claire's law.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I think education would be a good start. We have spent years teaching kids about stranger danger but not bothered to teach them about the kind of danger they're most likely to face.

Teach kids to recognise abuse, teach them that they have a voice, teach them that no matter how often they're told "no one will believe you" or "you will get in trouble if you report this" that these things won't happen.

As they get older teach them about healthy relationships, teach them what abusive and controlling behaviour is, how to recognise it - in themselves as well as when committed against them. Teach how to stop it esculating - in themselves and from others, to have self confidence enough to walk away.

It's all well and good saying this isn't the job of schools but the reality is domestic violence has gone on from the beginning of time - family cannot be relied on to sort the issue. Almost no one gets murdered as a first domestic attack, the failure is in dealing with the issue long long before it becomes another death.

Mr"

I think some education could definitely be slotted into PSHE. I'm just not sure if your average 15 yo would see abusive behaviour as relevant to them and engage? Personal boundaries - definitely. It's something I've worked on with my kids because I personally feel that having strong boundaries is a way to protect yourself.

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By *atriciayoiditTV/TS
over a year ago

hatfield


"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic.

*This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. *"
no magic bullet on this topic...it will be the same this year..next year and the next million years.

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By *imi_RougeWoman
over a year ago

Portsmouth

The only time I've ever been a victim of any abuse/violence by men is by the ones I've been involved with in some way, in my own home. Never a stranger. Never out on the street.

More needs to be done in schools to educate children what healthy relationships look like.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Society is getting more violent and nasty definitely

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Pepper spray and everything is an option. But most of the victims are generally known by their attacker, so how many incidents would it reduce.

Education and support is what is needed. As a victim of domestic abuse, being told oh I didn't hit you that hard or I didn't mean to push you into wall is how it all started. Until it becomes kind of normal it's a bizzare thing and I can't explain what the hell was I thinking. But he crossed a hard line and I couldn't ignore or justify it anymore. But that leaving was horrific, the violence and abuse was ramped up as he realised he was loosing control.

What is needed is better information on how to get out safely. Yes there are shelters but they are often full. So you can't just leave leaving you in a truly terrifying situation.

I was told if I left the house, with my girls, I was making myself deliberately homeless, and wouldn’t be given any assistance. So we stayed. I’d been with him since I was 17, he was all I knew. I should have left when I was 18 and pregnant, as that’s when it started, but I was so desperate to have a “family” with both parents, I decided it would be ok, he’d change, he loved me. It was having a child, who wasn’t disabled, like her sister, who would see that what was happening wasn’t right, and knowing I’d be teaching her the lessons my mum taught me, that eventually gave me the strength to leave. I didn’t want history repeating itself again x

Viv xx"

You got out. You did that for you and for them. I hope you're safe and loved now. X

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have the greatest respect for women. I have never hurt or insulted any lady. I have been in some situations. And its always me that ends up getting hurt.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Pepper spray and everything is an option. But most of the victims are generally known by their attacker, so how many incidents would it reduce.

Education and support is what is needed. As a victim of domestic abuse, being told oh I didn't hit you that hard or I didn't mean to push you into wall is how it all started. Until it becomes kind of normal it's a bizzare thing and I can't explain what the hell was I thinking. But he crossed a hard line and I couldn't ignore or justify it anymore. But that leaving was horrific, the violence and abuse was ramped up as he realised he was loosing control.

What is needed is better information on how to get out safely. Yes there are shelters but they are often full. So you can't just leave leaving you in a truly terrifying situation.

I was told if I left the house, with my girls, I was making myself deliberately homeless, and wouldn’t be given any assistance. So we stayed. I’d been with him since I was 17, he was all I knew. I should have left when I was 18 and pregnant, as that’s when it started, but I was so desperate to have a “family” with both parents, I decided it would be ok, he’d change, he loved me. It was having a child, who wasn’t disabled, like her sister, who would see that what was happening wasn’t right, and knowing I’d be teaching her the lessons my mum taught me, that eventually gave me the strength to leave. I didn’t want history repeating itself again x

Viv xx

We unfortunately have very similar stories. In my despiration to have a perfect relationship, following from abuse from Dad. My ex made sure he wasn't as bad as my Dad, so he'd say I was overreacting because of former trauma. It was when he hit me in front of my kids I knew I had to leave. I want my kids to know what love and relationships look like x "

I'm so glad you got out, Frida.

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By *emorefridaCouple
over a year ago

La la land

Oh and if someone reads this thread and wants to ask something or anything you think might help you get our of an abusive relationship, my inbox is always always open

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Does the list include trans woman ? "

Fortunately no trans women in the UK have been murdered in the last few years.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Pepper spray and everything is an option. But most of the victims are generally known by their attacker, so how many incidents would it reduce.

Education and support is what is needed. As a victim of domestic abuse, being told oh I didn't hit you that hard or I didn't mean to push you into wall is how it all started. Until it becomes kind of normal it's a bizzare thing and I can't explain what the hell was I thinking. But he crossed a hard line and I couldn't ignore or justify it anymore. But that leaving was horrific, the violence and abuse was ramped up as he realised he was loosing control.

What is needed is better information on how to get out safely. Yes there are shelters but they are often full. So you can't just leave leaving you in a truly terrifying situation.

I was told if I left the house, with my girls, I was making myself deliberately homeless, and wouldn’t be given any assistance. So we stayed. I’d been with him since I was 17, he was all I knew. I should have left when I was 18 and pregnant, as that’s when it started, but I was so desperate to have a “family” with both parents, I decided it would be ok, he’d change, he loved me. It was having a child, who wasn’t disabled, like her sister, who would see that what was happening wasn’t right, and knowing I’d be teaching her the lessons my mum taught me, that eventually gave me the strength to leave. I didn’t want history repeating itself again x

Viv xx

We unfortunately have very similar stories. In my despiration to have a perfect relationship, following from abuse from Dad. My ex made sure he wasn't as bad as my Dad, so he'd say I was overreacting because of former trauma. It was when he hit me in front of my kids I knew I had to leave. I want my kids to know what love and relationships look like x "

I’m so glad you got out. I’m the same, I don’t want my girls in a home where the parents aren’t happy, and one is afraid. My ex once said “I only grabbed your neck and pushed you against the door, it’s not like I punched you” Like that made all the difference. Sometimes I wished he would have, as people see bruises, they don’t see the psychological damage, from the other types of abuse as well. My mum even said “At least he doesn’t hit you love”. It was when I was frozen, in fear, as he was leaving work to make sure I was home, and my sister saw it, that I knew I had to make changes. My girls will hopefully never know the fear I’ve witnessed or experienced. They have a loving and violence free home xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

2 years of lockdown were not good for those with mental health issues, or those in abusive relationships. I include the former because I do personally believe that violent people are often not the healthiest from a mental viewpoint.

I hope this drops next year (with this years figures) now that ‘normality’ is closer, but unfortunately even if it does, it will just be a blip.

It starts with educating boys, and stopping the whole blue/pink segregation of sexes we see from early childhood, with boys having racing car pyjamas and girls having fairies. Setting boys up to be ‘macho’ sets them up to disadvantaged when having relationships with girls.

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By *xploring_FunWoman
over a year ago

Coventry

Education is such a major thing.

The first step is also educating people to stop minimising things and to make it socially unacceptable to be abusive to your partner.

How many times have we heard “jokes” about giving the wife a slap? Or about locking her in the kitchen.

Emotional abuse, and financial abuse (especially of ex partners in the manner of withholding child maintenance because “she’ll spend it on her hair/nails”) is not socially unacceptable currently.

If someone discloses abuse it’s incredibly common for the first reply to be “what did you do/say?” rather “are you safe now?”

With emotional abuse it’s common for “at least he doesn’t hit you” to be seen as an acceptable reply.

And financially we need to educate more and more girls not to sacrifice their earnings when children come into the relationship because two often that then traps them at the most vulnerable time. Statistically abuse is often likely to start during pregnancy or shortly after.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes the majority of violence against women is by someone they already know (father brother husband etc). Roughly the same for r*pes. Wasn't so long ago police would not get involved with domestic violence because it was a civil matter. Thankfully nowadays as someone has said coercive control is now a crime and people can be arrested for stalking and harassment. Which is the main signs before the physical violence normally takes place.

Unfortunately there is still a low conviction rate for r*pe as often women are too scared or even nowadays too ashamed to tell anyone and the DNA evidence is destroyed leaving it to he said she said. Some women never come forward for fear of not being believed and this really upsets me.

Sadly I don't think there is anything that anyone can do to make women feel 100% safe on the streets at night and it doesn't matter what deterrents are out there there will always be those men that rebel and still do it anyway. We just need tougher sentences for those who are convicted.

On that note Wayne Couzens has been told that he can buy an Xbox for himself in prison. Is this unjust or is it keeping the peace inside the prison and giving them another form of punishment by taking it away for bad behaviour?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The problem with things like pepper sprays is that they won’t help for the majority of the times when it’s needed.

No-one is going to have pepper spray in their pocket in their kitchen while cooking the family Sunday lunch. Yet they’re more likely to be assaulted then than they are walking down the street.

Yep! My mum had a pan of boiling oil thrown over her, for apparently giving him a “look” as she was cooking the tea. It wasn’t a look, she couldn’t see properly through her black eyes! He battered me when I was 9, was always battering my brother and my mum, and liked to show his control in other ways too. The best day of our lives was her taking us, and running, when I was 16. My brother abhors violence against women, my sister and I tolerated it, but now we’re stronger too. I dread to think what would have happened to my mum, if she hadn’t have found her courage that night xx

Your brave mum. It must have taken so much to walk away. "

It did. He was able to hound her for a couple of years afterwards. It’s so stupid, but I don’t even use my real name on social media, as my surname is so unusual, just in case he’s still alive. Like he’d even care, but I don’t want him being able to have any access to my mums or our lives anymore. I saw him once, when in my late 20’s, in a super market, and I just ran out. It was like I was a child, all over again. The fear was still so real. They don’t tell you that bit, when you escape them xx

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By *immyinreadingMan
over a year ago

henley on thames

Where women are victims at the hands of their partners, very often the abusive behaviour is an ongoing thing that escalates or just keeps happening.

I’m sure that I am not alone on knowing a victim of domestic abuse who left her partner (husband in this case), told family and friends where had been going on, got back on her own two feet, got a new job ... and then went back to him.

“You don’t understand”, “he’s not like that all the time”, “he was in a bad place, he’s ok now”, “he didn’t mean it”, “I provoked him”, “I have better coping mechanisms now” ... lines ther just tear your heart apart, watching a fragile young woman put herself in harm’s way.

If I could do one thing to reduce violence against women, it would be to put more robust supports in place for victims of domestic abuse, helping them to not go back to the abuser.

Easier said than done though, as in the case I refer to, lawyers, therapists can family and friends all advised her to stay away and she still went back.

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By *xploring_FunWoman
over a year ago

Coventry


"

I’m sure that I am not alone on knowing a victim of domestic abuse who left her partner (husband in this case), told family and friends where had been going on, got back on her own two feet, got a new job ... and then went back to him.

"

On average they say it takes around 7 attempts for someone to leave successfully.

Also leaving is the most dangerous time so that is when someone is most likely to be killed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Pepper spray and everything is an option. But most of the victims are generally known by their attacker, so how many incidents would it reduce.

Education and support is what is needed. As a victim of domestic abuse, being told oh I didn't hit you that hard or I didn't mean to push you into wall is how it all started. Until it becomes kind of normal it's a bizzare thing and I can't explain what the hell was I thinking. But he crossed a hard line and I couldn't ignore or justify it anymore. But that leaving was horrific, the violence and abuse was ramped up as he realised he was loosing control.

What is needed is better information on how to get out safely. Yes there are shelters but they are often full. So you can't just leave leaving you in a truly terrifying situation.

I was told if I left the house, with my girls, I was making myself deliberately homeless, and wouldn’t be given any assistance. So we stayed. I’d been with him since I was 17, he was all I knew. I should have left when I was 18 and pregnant, as that’s when it started, but I was so desperate to have a “family” with both parents, I decided it would be ok, he’d change, he loved me. It was having a child, who wasn’t disabled, like her sister, who would see that what was happening wasn’t right, and knowing I’d be teaching her the lessons my mum taught me, that eventually gave me the strength to leave. I didn’t want history repeating itself again x

Viv xx

You got out. You did that for you and for them. I hope you're safe and loved now. X"

I am thank you xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

I’m sure that I am not alone on knowing a victim of domestic abuse who left her partner (husband in this case), told family and friends where had been going on, got back on her own two feet, got a new job ... and then went back to him.

On average they say it takes around 7 attempts for someone to leave successfully.

Also leaving is the most dangerous time so that is when someone is most likely to be killed."

There was a documentary a couple of years ago on channel 4 about domestic violence and it followed to women's story in real time.

Afterwards there was a program with people who help women to escape domestic violence situations and it was so helpful unfortunately I can't remember the name of the documentary but it was brilliant and still sticks in by mind.

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By *immyinreadingMan
over a year ago

henley on thames


"The only time I've ever been a victim of any abuse/violence by men is by the ones I've been involved with in some way, in my own home. Never a stranger. Never out on the street.

More needs to be done in schools to educate children what healthy relationships look like. "

In terms of education, this might sound lame, but education people on now to resolve conflict might help.

I know of a few cases of domestic abuse, and in each case the bloke involved hair seemed to snap and lash out, verbally initially, then progressing to physical abuse. In each case, he came from a family where blazing rows were pretty common, they saw nothing wrong with that, so that was how they dealt with ani frustrations ... bottle things up, bottle things up, explode in a rage.

One of the guys involved was bemused that there were other ways to handle things, to discuss issues calmly and constructively, to identify frustrations early and try to avoid them becoming a major issue, she’d sort of thing.

Some people simply don’t have those interpersonal skills, or empathy, often as a result of their own upbringing.

Learning interpersonal skills like this at school would be a bit more useful than some of the stuff that is taught. Life skills

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Where women are victims at the hands of their partners, very often the abusive behaviour is an ongoing thing that escalates or just keeps happening.

I’m sure that I am not alone on knowing a victim of domestic abuse who left her partner (husband in this case), told family and friends where had been going on, got back on her own two feet, got a new job ... and then went back to him.

“You don’t understand”, “he’s not like that all the time”, “he was in a bad place, he’s ok now”, “he didn’t mean it”, “I provoked him”, “I have better coping mechanisms now” ... lines ther just tear your heart apart, watching a fragile young woman put herself in harm’s way.

If I could do one thing to reduce violence against women, it would be to put more robust supports in place for victims of domestic abuse, helping them to not go back to the abuser.

Easier said than done though, as in the case I refer to, lawyers, therapists can family and friends all advised her to stay away and she still went back. "

My mum did the same for years. He would do everything imaginable to her, and she would always go back. We left Wales, when I had just turned 8, got a home in England, two doors down from my grandparents, he tracked her down and she took him back. The violence started again very soon afterwards, and when my granddad had a word with him, he moved us to the other side of the town, away from them. Everything escalated then. We ran away so many times. I had him sent to prison when I was 16, the final time we ran away. She was free, but the fear was great, she kept in contact, visited him in prison, he turned up at our home on his release. He expected to live with us! I’m so glad that, although she hadn’t been able to break off that contact, when she saw him face to face, in a room with her children again, she said no more. I honestly think he would have killed her, had she taken him back. Took her weeks to recover from the final beating he gave her xx

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By *immyinreadingMan
over a year ago

henley on thames


"

I’m sure that I am not alone on knowing a victim of domestic abuse who left her partner (husband in this case), told family and friends where had been going on, got back on her own two feet, got a new job ... and then went back to him.

On average they say it takes around 7 attempts for someone to leave successfully.

Also leaving is the most dangerous time so that is when someone is most likely to be killed."

Tragic, isn’t it.

In the case i mention, I have no idea what else could have been done to help the lady involved. She was away from him, new job, financially secure, saying all the right things, had filed for divorce etc, then moved back in.

Actually, the trigger point for moving back in might have been reaching the final stages of the divorce process. Instead of finalising the divorce, she moved back in with him.

Sadly, if anything else happens now, her support network will be weaker, as some of the people who invested time, energy and money in helping her out now feel that they wouldn’t do it a second time.

That weakening of support network is pretty common too. Initial shock when abuse first comes to light, less shock and less support when it recurs.

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By *teve_it_aloneMan
over a year ago

Dunfermline


"Is violence more prevalent within relationships or between relative strangers? I’d assume relationships?

A friend told me recently Clare’s Law is enacted so a woman can check a central register via local police if a man has been cautioned/arrested/charged/prosecuted for violence against women. Not sure how accurate this is but it’s a very good thing if it is.

"

Yeah it’s not against a register per se, it it gives people the right to ask for information and it gives police the power to tell (even if not asked for by the potential victim). It’s one of many effective tools.

I can see why pepper spray is an attractive option and there’s a possible case for it in cases of stranger violence. It’s effectiveness isn’t guaranteed and it can be taken off someone and either discarded or used against them so isn’t without its own risk.

As others have highlighted, attackers are far more likely to be within the home. For that reason escalation of force would never be part of good safety planning - the opposite is true, e.g. moving away from places like kitchens where there are items which can be used as weapons.

Stranger violence (particularly against women) is commonly quite sudden/explosive, whereas domestic abuse often relies on the build up of and conditioning to a fear of violence - so there’s not often a single point at which meeting force with force would be helpful.

As others have also highlighted the discovery of ‘self defence’ tools could also be a trigger/escalation point. DA perpetrators don’t usually look far for to try to find a “reason” to explain their violence. I’m not, of course, suggesting that that’s right, just that the discovery of something like that (much like the discovery of details of a support organisation, etc.) would be very likely to result in some sort of punitive/‘corrective’ act on the part of the abuser.

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By *xploring_FunWoman
over a year ago

Coventry


"

Sadly, if anything else happens now, her support network will be weaker, as some of the people who invested time, energy and money in helping her out now feel that they wouldn’t do it a second time.

That weakening of support network is pretty common too. Initial shock when abuse first comes to light, less shock and less support when it recurs. "

That’s all part of the isolation game these people play though

If it’s more known that people tend to take several times to leave hopefully it’ll be less successful that these perpetrators succeed.

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By *immyinreadingMan
over a year ago

henley on thames


"

Sadly, if anything else happens now, her support network will be weaker, as some of the people who invested time, energy and money in helping her out now feel that they wouldn’t do it a second time.

That weakening of support network is pretty common too. Initial shock when abuse first comes to light, less shock and less support when it recurs.

That’s all part of the isolation game these people play though

If it’s more known that people tend to take several times to leave hopefully it’ll be less successful that these perpetrators succeed."

In the situation I describe. I think that the isolation is an outcome that plays into the hands of the abuser rather than being an outcome that the abuser deliberately sets out to achieve.

But yes, isolation is a key tool of abusers, even if they are not consciously seeking it. For example, making friends and family unwelcome because the abuser knows that they are probably speaking against him.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think education would be a good start. We have spent years teaching kids about stranger danger but not bothered to teach them about the kind of danger they're most likely to face.

Teach kids to recognise abuse, teach them that they have a voice, teach them that no matter how often they're told "no one will believe you" or "you will get in trouble if you report this" that these things won't happen.

As they get older teach them about healthy relationships, teach them what abusive and controlling behaviour is, how to recognise it - in themselves as well as when committed against them. Teach how to stop it esculating - in themselves and from others, to have self confidence enough to walk away.

It's all well and good saying this isn't the job of schools but the reality is domestic violence has gone on from the beginning of time - family cannot be relied on to sort the issue. Almost no one gets murdered as a first domestic attack, the failure is in dealing with the issue long long before it becomes another death.

Mr

I think some education could definitely be slotted into PSHE. I'm just not sure if your average 15 yo would see abusive behaviour as relevant to them and engage? Personal boundaries - definitely. It's something I've worked on with my kids because I personally feel that having strong boundaries is a way to protect yourself. "

Not sure I would agree. Lots of those 15 year old will be seeing the behaviour at home so it will be very relevant to them. For those it isn't, it will be no different to every other school subject, how relevant is maths or geography to most 15 year old? I think this doesn't give kids enough credit.

When you read through the stories on here and those of women and men I've known who have lived through domestic abuse the one thing they all have in common is that the victim could always have stopped the situation a long time before they actually did - years before in many cases. It may just be another academic lesson at 15 but if taught well could save a person's life many years later.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I think education would be a good start. We have spent years teaching kids about stranger danger but not bothered to teach them about the kind of danger they're most likely to face.

Teach kids to recognise abuse, teach them that they have a voice, teach them that no matter how often they're told "no one will believe you" or "you will get in trouble if you report this" that these things won't happen.

As they get older teach them about healthy relationships, teach them what abusive and controlling behaviour is, how to recognise it - in themselves as well as when committed against them. Teach how to stop it esculating - in themselves and from others, to have self confidence enough to walk away.

It's all well and good saying this isn't the job of schools but the reality is domestic violence has gone on from the beginning of time - family cannot be relied on to sort the issue. Almost no one gets murdered as a first domestic attack, the failure is in dealing with the issue long long before it becomes another death.

Mr

I think some education could definitely be slotted into PSHE. I'm just not sure if your average 15 yo would see abusive behaviour as relevant to them and engage? Personal boundaries - definitely. It's something I've worked on with my kids because I personally feel that having strong boundaries is a way to protect yourself.

Not sure I would agree. Lots of those 15 year old will be seeing the behaviour at home so it will be very relevant to them. For those it isn't, it will be no different to every other school subject, how relevant is maths or geography to most 15 year old? I think this doesn't give kids enough credit.

When you read through the stories on here and those of women and men I've known who have lived through domestic abuse the one thing they all have in common is that the victim could always have stopped the situation a long time before they actually did - years before in many cases. It may just be another academic lesson at 15 but if taught well could save a person's life many years later. "

I'm thinking of my own 15yo. He's already been gaslighted by his dad. If taught well, I'd hope it may make some difference. All these years later, I still find the red flags hard to spot. You're right, I'd want my children to be able to see them.

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By *teve_it_aloneMan
over a year ago

Dunfermline


"I think education would be a good start. We have spent years teaching kids about stranger danger but not bothered to teach them about the kind of danger they're most likely to face.

Teach kids to recognise abuse, teach them that they have a voice, teach them that no matter how often they're told "no one will believe you" or "you will get in trouble if you report this" that these things won't happen.

As they get older teach them about healthy relationships, teach them what abusive and controlling behaviour is, how to recognise it - in themselves as well as when committed against them. Teach how to stop it esculating - in themselves and from others, to have self confidence enough to walk away.

It's all well and good saying this isn't the job of schools but the reality is domestic violence has gone on from the beginning of time - family cannot be relied on to sort the issue. Almost no one gets murdered as a first domestic attack, the failure is in dealing with the issue long long before it becomes another death.

Mr

I think some education could definitely be slotted into PSHE. I'm just not sure if your average 15 yo would see abusive behaviour as relevant to them and engage? Personal boundaries - definitely. It's something I've worked on with my kids because I personally feel that having strong boundaries is a way to protect yourself.

Not sure I would agree. Lots of those 15 year old will be seeing the behaviour at home so it will be very relevant to them. For those it isn't, it will be no different to every other school subject, how relevant is maths or geography to most 15 year old? I think this doesn't give kids enough credit.

When you read through the stories on here and those of women and men I've known who have lived through domestic abuse the one thing they all have in common is that the victim could always have stopped the situation a long time before they actually did - years before in many cases. It may just be another academic lesson at 15 but if taught well could save a person's life many years later.

I'm thinking of my own 15yo. He's already been gaslighted by his dad. If taught well, I'd hope it may make some difference. All these years later, I still find the red flags hard to spot. You're right, I'd want my children to be able to see them. "

Sadly (I know having worked with them) there are kids half that age and younger who are not only aware of domestic violence but are also conditioned to the “it’s our fault, don’t upset dad” mentality.

I think some areas have good work going on to raise the issue in an age appropriate way, but like you and others have said, it needs a lifelong approach and lifelong consistency of message (paired with a public health approach to identifying and addressing abusers and supporting everyone impacted by it).

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By *xploring_FunWoman
over a year ago

Coventry


"

Sadly, if anything else happens now, her support network will be weaker, as some of the people who invested time, energy and money in helping her out now feel that they wouldn’t do it a second time.

That weakening of support network is pretty common too. Initial shock when abuse first comes to light, less shock and less support when it recurs.

That’s all part of the isolation game these people play though

If it’s more known that people tend to take several times to leave hopefully it’ll be less successful that these perpetrators succeed.

In the situation I describe. I think that the isolation is an outcome that plays into the hands of the abuser rather than being an outcome that the abuser deliberately sets out to achieve.

But yes, isolation is a key tool of abusers, even if they are not consciously seeking it. For example, making friends and family unwelcome because the abuser knows that they are probably speaking against him. "

Isolation is an abusers number one tool. I’ve never seen a case yet where they haven’t been actively pushing for it as much as possible.

It’s not just about making friends and family feel unwelcome, but add into that making the victim feel guilty about wanting to spend time with other people, plus things like making it difficult by playing mind games saying the friend or relative is stirring or lying.

Two common isolation tactics are also being nice to prevent socialising with other people “oh I booked a surprise meal at x place, but if you’d rather go….” And also illness and suicide threats.

There is basically a script that abusive men follow, even though they may not realise it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think, paying real attention to the warning signs is so important. Anything that makes you feel 'yeah, what they did/said didn't sit right with me'..don't go against your instincts...if it feels wrong, it is.

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By *immyinreadingMan
over a year ago

henley on thames


"I think education would be a good start. We have spent years teaching kids about stranger danger but not bothered to teach them about the kind of danger they're most likely to face.

Teach kids to recognise abuse, teach them that they have a voice, teach them that no matter how often they're told "no one will believe you" or "you will get in trouble if you report this" that these things won't happen.

As they get older teach them about healthy relationships, teach them what abusive and controlling behaviour is, how to recognise it - in themselves as well as when committed against them. Teach how to stop it esculating - in themselves and from others, to have self confidence enough to walk away.

It's all well and good saying this isn't the job of schools but the reality is domestic violence has gone on from the beginning of time - family cannot be relied on to sort the issue. Almost no one gets murdered as a first domestic attack, the failure is in dealing with the issue long long before it becomes another death.

Mr

I think some education could definitely be slotted into PSHE. I'm just not sure if your average 15 yo would see abusive behaviour as relevant to them and engage? Personal boundaries - definitely. It's something I've worked on with my kids because I personally feel that having strong boundaries is a way to protect yourself.

Not sure I would agree. Lots of those 15 year old will be seeing the behaviour at home so it will be very relevant to them. For those it isn't, it will be no different to every other school subject, how relevant is maths or geography to most 15 year old? I think this doesn't give kids enough credit.

When you read through the stories on here and those of women and men I've known who have lived through domestic abuse the one thing they all have in common is that the victim could always have stopped the situation a long time before they actually did - years before in many cases. It may just be another academic lesson at 15 but if taught well could save a person's life many years later. "

I think you can still teach kids life skills like how to talk problems out, how to identify issues before they become big issues, how to bring issues up without them escalating into rows, how to defuse rows, that shouting and violence are not ok.

These are skills we need in everyday life, work situations, family problems, road rage, you name it.

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By *immyinreadingMan
over a year ago

henley on thames


"

Sadly, if anything else happens now, her support network will be weaker, as some of the people who invested time, energy and money in helping her out now feel that they wouldn’t do it a second time.

That weakening of support network is pretty common too. Initial shock when abuse first comes to light, less shock and less support when it recurs.

That’s all part of the isolation game these people play though

If it’s more known that people tend to take several times to leave hopefully it’ll be less successful that these perpetrators succeed.

In the situation I describe. I think that the isolation is an outcome that plays into the hands of the abuser rather than being an outcome that the abuser deliberately sets out to achieve.

But yes, isolation is a key tool of abusers, even if they are not consciously seeking it. For example, making friends and family unwelcome because the abuser knows that they are probably speaking against him.

Isolation is an abusers number one tool. I’ve never seen a case yet where they haven’t been actively pushing for it as much as possible.

It’s not just about making friends and family feel unwelcome, but add into that making the victim feel guilty about wanting to spend time with other people, plus things like making it difficult by playing mind games saying the friend or relative is stirring or lying.

Two common isolation tactics are also being nice to prevent socialising with other people “oh I booked a surprise meal at x place, but if you’d rather go….” And also illness and suicide threats.

There is basically a script that abusive men follow, even though they may not realise it. "

Your final few words were what I was trying to express ... “even though they may not realise it”.

I completely agree that isolation is the number 1 outcome, but I don’t think it is always as deliberate and planned as is sometimes portrayed, I think it is sometimes a natural outcome of their behaviour rather than a palmed outcome by the abuser.

I’m thinking of one abuser specifically, and the bloke couldn’t plan his way out of a paper bag, but his behaviour has over time stopped people going near his home. He is just unpleasant to be around, and now that everyone knows he is an abuser and thinks he is a total cunt, nobody wants to visit or socialise, as that would kinda validate him or normalise / accept his behaviour.

So the isolation is an outcome rather than a goal, but it completely feeds into his hands.

There is no way he deliberately set out to make everyone think he is a cunt, but now that he has, it gives him isolation which makes further abuse more likely.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It is still heart breaking in this age that women can't be safe on the streets or in their own home, often murdered by those they trusted most.

And it increases year on year. The last stat I saw was 139 women killed by a man in 2021.

And the official VAWG figure will be higher because the official definition includes offences perpetrated by males and females.

What official VAWG figure? The figures compiled for Jess Phillips are by a volunteer. Karen Ingala Smith. Murders committed by females number about one a year if that. "

There's now an official definition compiled by the NPCC for the Home Office so that police forces can understand the scale and trends of the problem. Document runs to 17 pages.

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By *emorefridaCouple
over a year ago

La la land


"Pepper spray and everything is an option. But most of the victims are generally known by their attacker, so how many incidents would it reduce.

Education and support is what is needed. As a victim of domestic abuse, being told oh I didn't hit you that hard or I didn't mean to push you into wall is how it all started. Until it becomes kind of normal it's a bizzare thing and I can't explain what the hell was I thinking. But he crossed a hard line and I couldn't ignore or justify it anymore. But that leaving was horrific, the violence and abuse was ramped up as he realised he was loosing control.

What is needed is better information on how to get out safely. Yes there are shelters but they are often full. So you can't just leave leaving you in a truly terrifying situation.

I was told if I left the house, with my girls, I was making myself deliberately homeless, and wouldn’t be given any assistance. So we stayed. I’d been with him since I was 17, he was all I knew. I should have left when I was 18 and pregnant, as that’s when it started, but I was so desperate to have a “family” with both parents, I decided it would be ok, he’d change, he loved me. It was having a child, who wasn’t disabled, like her sister, who would see that what was happening wasn’t right, and knowing I’d be teaching her the lessons my mum taught me, that eventually gave me the strength to leave. I didn’t want history repeating itself again x

Viv xx

We unfortunately have very similar stories. In my despiration to have a perfect relationship, following from abuse from Dad. My ex made sure he wasn't as bad as my Dad, so he'd say I was overreacting because of former trauma. It was when he hit me in front of my kids I knew I had to leave. I want my kids to know what love and relationships look like x

I’m so glad you got out. I’m the same, I don’t want my girls in a home where the parents aren’t happy, and one is afraid. My ex once said “I only grabbed your neck and pushed you against the door, it’s not like I punched you” Like that made all the difference. Sometimes I wished he would have, as people see bruises, they don’t see the psychological damage, from the other types of abuse as well. My mum even said “At least he doesn’t hit you love”. It was when I was frozen, in fear, as he was leaving work to make sure I was home, and my sister saw it, that I knew I had to make changes. My girls will hopefully never know the fear I’ve witnessed or experienced. They have a loving and violence free home xx"

Yeah I sometimes wish he'd done something others would have seen as more unacceptable. But he was clever I give him that. That is the best thing we can as parents do, give our kids an abusive free home x

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By *urplechesterCouple
over a year ago

chester

I personally find it an absolute mickey take that parliament have the nerve to read out the names of so many women who this government and police force have failed! Miss pc

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Pepper spray and everything is an option. But most of the victims are generally known by their attacker, so how many incidents would it reduce.

Education and support is what is needed. As a victim of domestic abuse, being told oh I didn't hit you that hard or I didn't mean to push you into wall is how it all started. Until it becomes kind of normal it's a bizzare thing and I can't explain what the hell was I thinking. But he crossed a hard line and I couldn't ignore or justify it anymore. But that leaving was horrific, the violence and abuse was ramped up as he realised he was loosing control.

What is needed is better information on how to get out safely. Yes there are shelters but they are often full. So you can't just leave leaving you in a truly terrifying situation.

I was told if I left the house, with my girls, I was making myself deliberately homeless, and wouldn’t be given any assistance. So we stayed. I’d been with him since I was 17, he was all I knew. I should have left when I was 18 and pregnant, as that’s when it started, but I was so desperate to have a “family” with both parents, I decided it would be ok, he’d change, he loved me. It was having a child, who wasn’t disabled, like her sister, who would see that what was happening wasn’t right, and knowing I’d be teaching her the lessons my mum taught me, that eventually gave me the strength to leave. I didn’t want history repeating itself again x

Viv xx

We unfortunately have very similar stories. In my despiration to have a perfect relationship, following from abuse from Dad. My ex made sure he wasn't as bad as my Dad, so he'd say I was overreacting because of former trauma. It was when he hit me in front of my kids I knew I had to leave. I want my kids to know what love and relationships look like x

I’m so glad you got out. I’m the same, I don’t want my girls in a home where the parents aren’t happy, and one is afraid. My ex once said “I only grabbed your neck and pushed you against the door, it’s not like I punched you” Like that made all the difference. Sometimes I wished he would have, as people see bruises, they don’t see the psychological damage, from the other types of abuse as well. My mum even said “At least he doesn’t hit you love”. It was when I was frozen, in fear, as he was leaving work to make sure I was home, and my sister saw it, that I knew I had to make changes. My girls will hopefully never know the fear I’ve witnessed or experienced. They have a loving and violence free home xx

Yeah I sometimes wish he'd done something others would have seen as more unacceptable. But he was clever I give him that. That is the best thing we can as parents do, give our kids an abusive free home x "

It is, and it’s so easy to say you should have left earlier, it’s not that easy. They make you so afraid, so dependant on them, and use your children as a means to control you. Sometimes the “nice guy” is only “nice” to those around him. He’s as manipulative with them, as he is with you, just in a different way x

But, we’re out now, and we have lives that we are safe in. Safe, healing hugs to you lovely xx

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool


"We continue to raise generations with ingrained misogynistic and objectifying views of women. We need a public health and education based joint approach to tackling the issue. Unfortunately the people who should be responsible for delivering that are often the ones demonstrating problematic behaviours.

Even the well-intentioned old fashioned attitudes “always hold a door for a lady / always walk on the outside / never swear in front of a lady” are all based on a notion of women somehow being needing men to step in and protect them from the big bad world - when in truth it’s men are often the danger.

I had to tell my daughter that the little boy in her class wasn’t hitting her because he liked her (I hate that that notion still exists) but that he was a bully, and she wasn’t to tolerate it.

I spoke to his dad about it, and he tried to bully my daughter, in front of his son, and get her to admit she’d over-reacted, as it was no different for us as kids. Pulled him up over it. Told him that hitting my daughter across the head with a ruler, pushing her over, making her cry and calling her names, wasn’t acceptable, and that his son wasn’t the victim, my daughter was!

It’s frightening that some men, are still teaching their sons that violence against girls/women is ok, as they did it

Viv xx "

My brother used to beat me up from adolescence into teenage years. My parents never condoned it but they absolutely minimised it. I think they struggled with the idea that it had progressed from childhood squabbling into actual violence. Broken bones, split eyebrows and my bedroom door being punched through isn't "kids being kids" anymore. I was told to lie about where my injuries came from. It's horrible to feel scared in your own home and for your parents not to have your back. I was told not to provoke him even when I'd already started to walk on eggshells when we were alone in the house. I'm honestly so grateful I work in the industry I do and have so much education about domestic abuse or I would worry about where I would be with the messages I could have internalised from all of that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"We continue to raise generations with ingrained misogynistic and objectifying views of women. We need a public health and education based joint approach to tackling the issue. Unfortunately the people who should be responsible for delivering that are often the ones demonstrating problematic behaviours.

Even the well-intentioned old fashioned attitudes “always hold a door for a lady / always walk on the outside / never swear in front of a lady” are all based on a notion of women somehow being needing men to step in and protect them from the big bad world - when in truth it’s men are often the danger.

I had to tell my daughter that the little boy in her class wasn’t hitting her because he liked her (I hate that that notion still exists) but that he was a bully, and she wasn’t to tolerate it.

I spoke to his dad about it, and he tried to bully my daughter, in front of his son, and get her to admit she’d over-reacted, as it was no different for us as kids. Pulled him up over it. Told him that hitting my daughter across the head with a ruler, pushing her over, making her cry and calling her names, wasn’t acceptable, and that his son wasn’t the victim, my daughter was!

It’s frightening that some men, are still teaching their sons that violence against girls/women is ok, as they did it

Viv xx

My brother used to beat me up from adolescence into teenage years. My parents never condoned it but they absolutely minimised it. I think they struggled with the idea that it had progressed from childhood squabbling into actual violence. Broken bones, split eyebrows and my bedroom door being punched through isn't "kids being kids" anymore. I was told to lie about where my injuries came from. It's horrible to feel scared in your own home and for your parents not to have your back. I was told not to provoke him even when I'd already started to walk on eggshells when we were alone in the house. I'm honestly so grateful I work in the industry I do and have so much education about domestic abuse or I would worry about where I would be with the messages I could have internalised from all of that. "

I’m so sorry that you went through that. Parents should protect, they don’t always do that If behaviour isn’t addressed it escalates, as it sadly did for you, and I hope that his behaviour has been addressed, and he hasn’t taken that abusive behaviour into his relationships. I’m not criticising your parents, and I’m sorry if it seems that way, but they condoned it by their silence, and by placing the blame on you. My brother, now abhors violence, but as a teenager he used to scare my mum, smash up her home, was violent in occasion, until my sister and I stepped in, and told him that he was being no better than the man he watched beat his mum to a pulp.

Sadly, the family made excuses for him, it was because of what he’d seen, being beaten himself, etc- no, not acceptable. I was beaten, I was abused, I may have become a victim of it as an adult too, but I never became a perpetrator. There’s no justification, ever! I’m glad you are where you are now, that your employment, and your own survival skills, have given you that strength. I internalised so much, telling myself it was a coping mechanism, it was my fault etc, it wasn’t, I know that now, and I’m stronger because of that acknowledgment xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Sadly (I know having worked with them) there are kids half that age and younger who are not only aware of domestic violence but are also conditioned to the “it’s our fault, don’t upset dad” mentality.

I think some areas have good work going on to raise the issue in an age appropriate way, but like you and others have said, it needs a lifelong approach and lifelong consistency of message (paired with a public health approach to identifying and addressing abusers and supporting everyone impacted by it). "

I think you're bang on with this - sadly, like with all public services there isn't the money so the problem gets bumped down the line until it stops with one of the statutory services - in this case the police. A more joined up approach with money spent on earlier intervention would have better outcomes all round. Having a team of experts who can help out early on could not only mean hundreds of thousands of people are able get out of a life of abuse but also save on police time, A&E time, CPS time, court time and prison time. It would pay for itself in a few years. Sadly though we have a bunch of fools in power who have systematically stripped away more and more "costs" associated with helping those most in need in society in the name of saving money and now we reap the rewards and suddenly have to find the money anyway to deal with the outcome.

It's great standing up in Parliament and saying something needs to change, talk is free. What needs to change is the ridiculous idea that austerity works saves money.

Mr

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think education would be a good start. We have spent years teaching kids about stranger danger but not bothered to teach them about the kind of danger they're most likely to face.

Teach kids to recognise abuse, teach them that they have a voice, teach them that no matter how often they're told "no one will believe you" or "you will get in trouble if you report this" that these things won't happen.

As they get older teach them about healthy relationships, teach them what abusive and controlling behaviour is, how to recognise it - in themselves as well as when committed against them. Teach how to stop it esculating - in themselves and from others, to have self confidence enough to walk away.

It's all well and good saying this isn't the job of schools but the reality is domestic violence has gone on from the beginning of time - family cannot be relied on to sort the issue. Almost no one gets murdered as a first domestic attack, the failure is in dealing with the issue long long before it becomes another death.

Mr

I think some education could definitely be slotted into PSHE. I'm just not sure if your average 15 yo would see abusive behaviour as relevant to them and engage? Personal boundaries - definitely. It's something I've worked on with my kids because I personally feel that having strong boundaries is a way to protect yourself.

Not sure I would agree. Lots of those 15 year old will be seeing the behaviour at home so it will be very relevant to them. For those it isn't, it will be no different to every other school subject, how relevant is maths or geography to most 15 year old? I think this doesn't give kids enough credit.

When you read through the stories on here and those of women and men I've known who have lived through domestic abuse the one thing they all have in common is that the victim could always have stopped the situation a long time before they actually did - years before in many cases. It may just be another academic lesson at 15 but if taught well could save a person's life many years later.

I'm thinking of my own 15yo. He's already been gaslighted by his dad. If taught well, I'd hope it may make some difference. All these years later, I still find the red flags hard to spot. You're right, I'd want my children to be able to see them. "

Gaslighted in what way?

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By *coobyBoobyDooWoman
over a year ago

Markfield


"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic.

*This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. *"

Interesting thread, thank you OP. I think the number for this time period equates to more than two women a week being murdered by a man in the UK. More than ten a month. It’s shocking

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

New advert on tv today. Stand up for women. Examples of abusive situations.

Teen boys shouting at a girl and one of them says no that's not right.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Men and women are like chalk and cheese. Typically your average men are physically stronger cross the board than average women. Lack of police and our insistence in looking the other way when certain crimes are committed due to political correctness do not help either.

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By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

Part of the problem is that the police have a very high incidence of domestic violence in their own families.

Your average policeman does not care. Just look at how some of them treat women in public

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I personally find it an absolute mickey take that parliament have the nerve to read out the names of so many women who this government and police force have failed! Miss pc "

Jess Phillips does it off her own bat to highlight it in the press. And it means it's in the parliamentary record.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool


"Part of the problem is that the police have a very high incidence of domestic violence in their own families.

Your average policeman does not care. Just look at how some of them treat women in public "

Sad but true. Some of them are great but many are very dismissive of abuse, harassment and stalking.

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By *andy101Couple
over a year ago

walsall

My father raised me to defend myself but to never ever ever raise my hand to a woman only a coward would even think of this act let alone do it,no woman on this earth should face any sort of violence at the hands of a man but I will say it's wrong to blame government or police if this act is the mind set of the man no one will prevent the coward carrying it out

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Anyone including women who physically harms or mentally abuses anyone weaker, vulnerable or the innocent or even harms animals should have the book thrown at them with the harshest sentences allowed. Make them a bench mark a deterrent to stop other bully's and cowards doing the same thing's. Publicly shame them so the other scum that do or are thinking about doing these things know what will happen to them if they do

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By *immyinreadingMan
over a year ago

henley on thames


"Men and women are like chalk and cheese. Typically your average men are physically stronger cross the board than average women. Lack of police and our insistence in looking the other way when certain crimes are committed due to political correctness do not help either."

What crimes do we look the other way on due to political correctness?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

OP, was it you that’s reading men ‘who hate women’? If not I think you’d really appreciate it. If it is you then sorry ignore.

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By *inkyInkedBiWoman
over a year ago

.


"New advert on tv today. Stand up for women. Examples of abusive situations.

Teen boys shouting at a girl and one of them says no that's not right.

"

There’s an account called screengrabthem on IG - people sharing screenshots of messages they’re received from boys at school. It’s honestly so shocking and heartbreaking to read

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Jess Phillips MP read out 127 names of women killed by men in 2020 today in the House of Commons. The Prime Minister was not present.

The last name Jess read out in 2021 was Sarah Everard, who was murdered by policeman Wayne Couzens.

"Relatives of Ellie Gould, 17, and Poppy Devey Waterhouse, 24, who were both murdered by their ex-boyfriends, watched on from one of the galleries in the Commons."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not even worth the effort

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Men and women are like chalk and cheese. Typically your average men are physically stronger cross the board than average women. Lack of police and our insistence in looking the other way when certain crimes are committed due to political correctness do not help either."

I don't think we can blame all of society's problems on the lack of police. All the police do is investigate and deal with the aftermath of crime.

I agree however that there are serious issues with Justice and criminal system in relation to violence against women but it's not enough just to say we need more police.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Men and women are like chalk and cheese. Typically your average men are physically stronger cross the board than average women. Lack of police and our insistence in looking the other way when certain crimes are committed due to political correctness do not help either."

The only bit about this statement I agree with is that in average men are stronger than women.

Men and women aren't like chalk and cheese at all. For any metric you care to think of, men and women will sit somewhere along a sliding scale with a huge degree of overlap - and that is just as likely to include things like aggression as it is other supposedly gendered characteristics like spatial awareness.

I don't believe any crimes are overlooked because it is political incorrect to pursue them. Many are overlooked because of lack of resources, individual biases, systemic culture and a perception of pointlessness knowing the low chance of any success in court.

Mr

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By *oody HuddsonMan
over a year ago

sexy town


"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic.

*This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. *"

Any violence that is bestowed on a woman by a male is totally unacceptable.

I also like the fact you acknowledge the other way around.

Fabulous post to make people more aware this is totally and utterly wrong and unacceptable.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic.

*This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. *

Any violence that is bestowed on a woman by a male is totally unacceptable.

I also like the fact you acknowledge the other way around.

Fabulous post to make people more aware this is totally and utterly wrong and unacceptable. "

Of course. I knew from experience how threads like this get derailed. I don't want men to think that the only violence that is important is that against women. It's not. But today I wanted to highlight that. And aside from the daft misogynist joke, people have respected that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"New advert on tv today. Stand up for women. Examples of abusive situations.

Teen boys shouting at a girl and one of them says no that's not right.

There’s an account called screengrabthem on IG - people sharing screenshots of messages they’re received from boys at school. It’s honestly so shocking and heartbreaking to read "

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By *eryBigGirlWoman
over a year ago

East Yorkshire


"Does the list include trans woman ?

Fortunately no trans women in the UK have been murdered in the last few years. "

Not quite true. One trans woman was killed in 2017/18 according to national statistics and it’s believed to be a much higher number as often homocide victims are recorded as gender at birth therefore transgender victims are being misrepresented sadly

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By *eryBigGirlWoman
over a year ago

East Yorkshire


"Part of the problem is that the police have a very high incidence of domestic violence in their own families.

Your average policeman does not care. Just look at how some of them treat women in public

Sad but true. Some of them are great but many are very dismissive of abuse, harassment and stalking. "

And sadly very very many are perpetrators themselves and pretty much always get away with it and I’ve seen this personally with a very close friend of mine who continies to be abused by her ex who is a police officer as they close ranks and protect him despite reams of evidence!!!

https://www.channel4.com/news/more-than-100-women-accuse-police-officers-of-domestic-abuse-alleging-boys-club-culture

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By *for2Man
over a year ago

Bristol

No real man ever ever raises his hand to or bullies a woman or girl in any way whatsoever. Any 'man' that does is scum and definitely not a man in my book.

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By *h_yes_please!Man
over a year ago

North Devon

As a person who as always looked for a partner to be an equal I find it difficult to understand why one would wish to exercise such control over an other person by what ever means, violent or otherwise.

I find it very sad that men behave in such a despicable manor.

I would wish that all women report to the police any sexual assault however minor, an uninvited touch on the bottom for example. Zero tolerance. I think this would perhaps be a start to tackling the problem. I don’t imagine for a moment that it would solve the problem but perhaps it would deter some abusers and mark a line that sexual abuse is not acceptable in any form. Are there any women who have never been sexually assaulted?

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By *immyinreadingMan
over a year ago

henley on thames


"As a person who as always looked for a partner to be an equal I find it difficult to understand why one would wish to exercise such control over an other person by what ever means, violent or otherwise.

I find it very sad that men behave in such a despicable manor.

I would wish that all women report to the police any sexual assault however minor, an uninvited touch on the bottom for example. Zero tolerance. I think this would perhaps be a start to tackling the problem. I don’t imagine for a moment that it would solve the problem but perhaps it would deter some abusers and mark a line that sexual abuse is not acceptable in any form. Are there any women who have never been sexually assaulted? "

The thread is more about violence than sexual assault

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool


"As a person who as always looked for a partner to be an equal I find it difficult to understand why one would wish to exercise such control over an other person by what ever means, violent or otherwise.

I find it very sad that men behave in such a despicable manor.

I would wish that all women report to the police any sexual assault however minor, an uninvited touch on the bottom for example. Zero tolerance. I think this would perhaps be a start to tackling the problem. I don’t imagine for a moment that it would solve the problem but perhaps it would deter some abusers and mark a line that sexual abuse is not acceptable in any form. Are there any women who have never been sexually assaulted? "

When I was younger and went to nightclubs and used public transport a lot I would have never been out of the police station if I reported it every time.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"OP, was it you that’s reading men ‘who hate women’? If not I think you’d really appreciate it. If it is you then sorry ignore. "

Yes, I am reading it. I suspect I may have accidentally packed it though! I'm moving house.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I think education would be a good start. We have spent years teaching kids about stranger danger but not bothered to teach them about the kind of danger they're most likely to face.

Teach kids to recognise abuse, teach them that they have a voice, teach them that no matter how often they're told "no one will believe you" or "you will get in trouble if you report this" that these things won't happen.

As they get older teach them about healthy relationships, teach them what abusive and controlling behaviour is, how to recognise it - in themselves as well as when committed against them. Teach how to stop it esculating - in themselves and from others, to have self confidence enough to walk away.

It's all well and good saying this isn't the job of schools but the reality is domestic violence has gone on from the beginning of time - family cannot be relied on to sort the issue. Almost no one gets murdered as a first domestic attack, the failure is in dealing with the issue long long before it becomes another death.

Mr

I think some education could definitely be slotted into PSHE. I'm just not sure if your average 15 yo would see abusive behaviour as relevant to them and engage? Personal boundaries - definitely. It's something I've worked on with my kids because I personally feel that having strong boundaries is a way to protect yourself.

Not sure I would agree. Lots of those 15 year old will be seeing the behaviour at home so it will be very relevant to them. For those it isn't, it will be no different to every other school subject, how relevant is maths or geography to most 15 year old? I think this doesn't give kids enough credit.

When you read through the stories on here and those of women and men I've known who have lived through domestic abuse the one thing they all have in common is that the victim could always have stopped the situation a long time before they actually did - years before in many cases. It may just be another academic lesson at 15 but if taught well could save a person's life many years later.

I'm thinking of my own 15yo. He's already been gaslighted by his dad. If taught well, I'd hope it may make some difference. All these years later, I still find the red flags hard to spot. You're right, I'd want my children to be able to see them.

Gaslighted in what way? "

The usual tactics of gaslighting. "You must be imagining that. It was just a joke. Stop being so sensitive. I didn't say that, it's your bad memory."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"As a person who as always looked for a partner to be an equal I find it difficult to understand why one would wish to exercise such control over an other person by what ever means, violent or otherwise.

I find it very sad that men behave in such a despicable manor.

I would wish that all women report to the police any sexual assault however minor, an uninvited touch on the bottom for example. Zero tolerance. I think this would perhaps be a start to tackling the problem. I don’t imagine for a moment that it would solve the problem but perhaps it would deter some abusers and mark a line that sexual abuse is not acceptable in any form. Are there any women who have never been sexually assaulted?

When I was younger and went to nightclubs and used public transport a lot I would have never been out of the police station if I reported it every time. "

Same. It still happens to me now as an adult. Two distinct times I can remember while out at a bar before lockdown. I deal with it differently now though and absolutely won't tolerate it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My ex told me I just had to tolerate it as this is what men do. One of the reasons he is now an ex.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sorry to go off topic.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Does the list include trans woman ?

Fortunately no trans women in the UK have been murdered in the last few years.

Not quite true. One trans woman was killed in 2017/18 according to national statistics and it’s believed to be a much higher number as often homocide victims are recorded as gender at birth therefore transgender victims are being misrepresented sadly "

? Naomi Hursi was murdered in 2018. As we are in 2022, I think saying it's been a few years since a trans woman was killed is accurate.

I don't agree with victims being misrepresented - their sex at birth is recorded (not gender). Women are killed because of their sex. That's what femicide is. That data is important. Data related to crimes by gender is also important but would be separate.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think it should be highlighted and talked about.

I don't want this in my society.

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By *rMojoRisinMan
over a year ago

Sheffield


"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic.

*This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. *"

We need to become better men.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic.

*This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. *

We need to become better men. "

I doubt you have ever done this dude. You don't need to become a better man, the world just needs more men like you

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"As a person who as always looked for a partner to be an equal I find it difficult to understand why one would wish to exercise such control over an other person by what ever means, violent or otherwise.

I find it very sad that men behave in such a despicable manor.

I would wish that all women report to the police any sexual assault however minor, an uninvited touch on the bottom for example. Zero tolerance. I think this would perhaps be a start to tackling the problem. I don’t imagine for a moment that it would solve the problem but perhaps it would deter some abusers and mark a line that sexual abuse is not acceptable in any form. Are there any women who have never been sexually assaulted? "

Micro sexual assaults couldn't be reported to the police. They're not crimes. And even if they were, what would be the point? The Criminal Justice System doesn't do much to punish those who assault and r@pe does it?

The number of women in the UK who have been sexually assaulted is 1 in 5 (Rape Crisis figures). That's based on reported assaults, it's likely the figure is much higher.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool


"As a person who as always looked for a partner to be an equal I find it difficult to understand why one would wish to exercise such control over an other person by what ever means, violent or otherwise.

I find it very sad that men behave in such a despicable manor.

I would wish that all women report to the police any sexual assault however minor, an uninvited touch on the bottom for example. Zero tolerance. I think this would perhaps be a start to tackling the problem. I don’t imagine for a moment that it would solve the problem but perhaps it would deter some abusers and mark a line that sexual abuse is not acceptable in any form. Are there any women who have never been sexually assaulted?

When I was younger and went to nightclubs and used public transport a lot I would have never been out of the police station if I reported it every time.

Same. It still happens to me now as an adult. Two distinct times I can remember while out at a bar before lockdown. I deal with it differently now though and absolutely won't tolerate it. "

Same it's just not a weekly occurrence anymore because I'm not around people enough these days .

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"As a person who as always looked for a partner to be an equal I find it difficult to understand why one would wish to exercise such control over an other person by what ever means, violent or otherwise.

I find it very sad that men behave in such a despicable manor.

I would wish that all women report to the police any sexual assault however minor, an uninvited touch on the bottom for example. Zero tolerance. I think this would perhaps be a start to tackling the problem. I don’t imagine for a moment that it would solve the problem but perhaps it would deter some abusers and mark a line that sexual abuse is not acceptable in any form. Are there any women who have never been sexually assaulted?

When I was younger and went to nightclubs and used public transport a lot I would have never been out of the police station if I reported it every time.

Same. It still happens to me now as an adult. Two distinct times I can remember while out at a bar before lockdown. I deal with it differently now though and absolutely won't tolerate it.

Same it's just not a weekly occurrence anymore because I'm not around people enough these days . "

Same here and when I got my 1st job at 16 it happened in the work place to just inappropriate comments mainly and bum slapping. But it was totally accepted in the place I worked as just banter. This was 22 years ago and thankfully things are getting better just not quickly enough.

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By *rMojoRisinMan
over a year ago

Sheffield


"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic.

*This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. *

We need to become better men.

I doubt you have ever done this dude. You don't need to become a better man, the world just needs more men like you "

I guess I was talking generically, but that’s a very nice thing to say.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"As a person who as always looked for a partner to be an equal I find it difficult to understand why one would wish to exercise such control over an other person by what ever means, violent or otherwise.

I find it very sad that men behave in such a despicable manor.

I would wish that all women report to the police any sexual assault however minor, an uninvited touch on the bottom for example. Zero tolerance. I think this would perhaps be a start to tackling the problem. I don’t imagine for a moment that it would solve the problem but perhaps it would deter some abusers and mark a line that sexual abuse is not acceptable in any form. Are there any women who have never been sexually assaulted?

The thread is more about violence than sexual assault "

There is considerable evidence that sexual harassment and assaults are precursors to violence. They're part of the same picture.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I feel that sexual assault and violent assault are interlinked. They're both acts of having power over a woman, keeping her in her place.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My question/concern is that is this becoming more prevalent?

And why?

Is it how children are being raised?

Less consequences for their actions?

The society they’re brought up in?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic.

*This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. *

We need to become better men.

I doubt you have ever done this dude. You don't need to become a better man, the world just needs more men like you

I guess I was talking generically, but that’s a very nice thing to say. "

I know you were man. I do think it should be changed to 'people who won't accpet this in society'

I'd be gutted if someone lumped me into that catagory just because I was male. So I understand the guys on a back foot. But if we take the OP's advice and don't derail it then we can (altogether) try and solve it. No bruised ego's and such, just a better place for us all

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When my ex assaulted me, the police who took my statement I couldn't fault. They were supportive, gave me information about women's support groups, and encouraged me to make the statement as I wasn't sure I wanted it to be dragged through a court.

I'm so glad to be out of that relationship now. It took some time to be completely free of him. I relish my peaceful life now.

I've been thinking about volunteering at a women's shelter.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"My question/concern is that is this becoming more prevalent?

And why?

Is it how children are being raised?

Less consequences for their actions?

The society they’re brought up in?

"

I don't think you're find it is becoming more prevalent. I think it's just that women are now talking about it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"When my ex assaulted me, the police who took my statement I couldn't fault. They were supportive, gave me information about women's support groups, and encouraged me to make the statement as I wasn't sure I wanted it to be dragged through a court.

I'm so glad to be out of that relationship now. It took some time to be completely free of him. I relish my peaceful life now.

I've been thinking about volunteering at a women's shelter. "

Thats a lovely thing to do.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic.

*This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. *"

The causes are deep rooted in modern western culture and laws that have put women in a vulnerable state and both men and women in a socially frustrated situation.

There is no simple answer. But the society as a whole needs deep thinkers who could look where we went wrong. Look at the cultural changes in the past century that made women more vulnerable. Look at other cultures in the past and present where women were protected against such violence more efficiently. What happened to our moral code, habits, culture, spirituality ect. Too many factors at play.

We have been indoctrinated that every social innovation of the modern days is good and everything that worked in the past for the collective is backward.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *rMojoRisinMan
over a year ago

Sheffield


"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic.

*This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. *

We need to become better men.

I doubt you have ever done this dude. You don't need to become a better man, the world just needs more men like you

I guess I was talking generically, but that’s a very nice thing to say.

I know you were man. I do think it should be changed to 'people who won't accpet this in society'

I'd be gutted if someone lumped me into that catagory just because I was male. So I understand the guys on a back foot. But if we take the OP's advice and don't derail it then we can (altogether) try and solve it. No bruised ego's and such, just a better place for us all "

Trouble is, because we are male, women don’t know if they can trust us or not. That’s uncomfortable for men to hear and leads to a negative feedback loop. It’s us that’s doing this, so we have to be grown up and be the change.

I read an article a few years ago about womens experiences of walking home from a night out. It’s so different to mine, and I want that to change.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Mayne it is becoming more prevalent, as women are finding their voices, maybe some men who don't want women to rise, are doubling efforts to keep them down?

Just a thought.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"As a person who as always looked for a partner to be an equal I find it difficult to understand why one would wish to exercise such control over an other person by what ever means, violent or otherwise.

I find it very sad that men behave in such a despicable manor.

I would wish that all women report to the police any sexual assault however minor, an uninvited touch on the bottom for example. Zero tolerance. I think this would perhaps be a start to tackling the problem. I don’t imagine for a moment that it would solve the problem but perhaps it would deter some abusers and mark a line that sexual abuse is not acceptable in any form. Are there any women who have never been sexually assaulted?

When I was younger and went to nightclubs and used public transport a lot I would have never been out of the police station if I reported it every time.

Same. It still happens to me now as an adult. Two distinct times I can remember while out at a bar before lockdown. I deal with it differently now though and absolutely won't tolerate it.

Same it's just not a weekly occurrence anymore because I'm not around people enough these days . "

The thread has moved fast, but I just wanted to acknowledge what you've shared, Lacey. The situation with your brother must have been so difficult for you, and affected your relationship with your family permanently. You should have been protected.

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By *rMojoRisinMan
over a year ago

Sheffield


"My question/concern is that is this becoming more prevalent?

And why?

Is it how children are being raised?

Less consequences for their actions?

The society they’re brought up in?

I don't think you're find it is becoming more prevalent. I think it's just that women are now talking about it. "

This!

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"When my ex assaulted me, the police who took my statement I couldn't fault. They were supportive, gave me information about women's support groups, and encouraged me to make the statement as I wasn't sure I wanted it to be dragged through a court.

I'm so glad to be out of that relationship now. It took some time to be completely free of him. I relish my peaceful life now.

I've been thinking about volunteering at a women's shelter. "

I'm so glad you got out and you were supported in doing so.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic.

*This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. *

The causes are deep rooted in modern western culture and laws that have put women in a vulnerable state and both men and women in a socially frustrated situation.

There is no simple answer. But the society as a whole needs deep thinkers who could look where we went wrong. Look at the cultural changes in the past century that made women more vulnerable. Look at other cultures in the past and present where women were protected against such violence more efficiently. What happened to our moral code, habits, culture, spirituality ect. Too many factors at play.

We have been indoctrinated that every social innovation of the modern days is good and everything that worked in the past for the collective is backward. "

Where/ when were women protected against violence more efficiently?

Genuine question, not trying to be a dick.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic.

*This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. *

The causes are deep rooted in modern western culture and laws that have put women in a vulnerable state and both men and women in a socially frustrated situation.

There is no simple answer. But the society as a whole needs deep thinkers who could look where we went wrong. Look at the cultural changes in the past century that made women more vulnerable. Look at other cultures in the past and present where women were protected against such violence more efficiently. What happened to our moral code, habits, culture, spirituality ect. Too many factors at play.

We have been indoctrinated that every social innovation of the modern days is good and everything that worked in the past for the collective is backward.

Where/ when were women protected against violence more efficiently?

Genuine question, not trying to be a dick. "

You took the words out of my mouth because I think in a lot of ways women are more protected now than they ever have been. Still. good enough but it's better than it was.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic.

*This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. *

The causes are deep rooted in modern western culture and laws that have put women in a vulnerable state and both men and women in a socially frustrated situation.

There is no simple answer. But the society as a whole needs deep thinkers who could look where we went wrong. Look at the cultural changes in the past century that made women more vulnerable. Look at other cultures in the past and present where women were protected against such violence more efficiently. What happened to our moral code, habits, culture, spirituality ect. Too many factors at play.

We have been indoctrinated that every social innovation of the modern days is good and everything that worked in the past for the collective is backward. "

You're saying all the right things here. I suggest people green arrow you. I'm deeply sceptical.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic.

*This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. *

We need to become better men.

I doubt you have ever done this dude. You don't need to become a better man, the world just needs more men like you

I guess I was talking generically, but that’s a very nice thing to say.

I know you were man. I do think it should be changed to 'people who won't accpet this in society'

I'd be gutted if someone lumped me into that catagory just because I was male. So I understand the guys on a back foot. But if we take the OP's advice and don't derail it then we can (altogether) try and solve it. No bruised ego's and such, just a better place for us all

***Trouble is, because we are male, women don’t know if they can trust us or not.***

That’s uncomfortable for men to hear and leads to a negative feedback loop. It’s us that’s doing this, so we have to be grown up and be the change.

I read an article a few years ago about womens experiences of walking home from a night out. It’s so different to mine, and I want that to change. "

***

I think this is why the 'trick a woman into bed' went so badly.

A supposedly nice colleague trying to manipulate a situation where she would have sex with him. In a very vulnerable situation of sleeping in the same room.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *rMojoRisinMan
over a year ago

Sheffield


"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic.

*This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. *

We need to become better men.

I doubt you have ever done this dude. You don't need to become a better man, the world just needs more men like you

I guess I was talking generically, but that’s a very nice thing to say.

I know you were man. I do think it should be changed to 'people who won't accpet this in society'

I'd be gutted if someone lumped me into that catagory just because I was male. So I understand the guys on a back foot. But if we take the OP's advice and don't derail it then we can (altogether) try and solve it. No bruised ego's and such, just a better place for us all

***Trouble is, because we are male, women don’t know if they can trust us or not.***

That’s uncomfortable for men to hear and leads to a negative feedback loop. It’s us that’s doing this, so we have to be grown up and be the change.

I read an article a few years ago about womens experiences of walking home from a night out. It’s so different to mine, and I want that to change.

***

I think this is why the 'trick a woman into bed' went so badly.

A supposedly nice colleague trying to manipulate a situation where she would have sex with him. In a very vulnerable situation of sleeping in the same room.

"

Sorry, I’m lost?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic.

*This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. *

We need to become better men.

I doubt you have ever done this dude. You don't need to become a better man, the world just needs more men like you

I guess I was talking generically, but that’s a very nice thing to say.

I know you were man. I do think it should be changed to 'people who won't accpet this in society'

I'd be gutted if someone lumped me into that catagory just because I was male. So I understand the guys on a back foot. But if we take the OP's advice and don't derail it then we can (altogether) try and solve it. No bruised ego's and such, just a better place for us all

Trouble is, because we are male, women don’t know if they can trust us or not. That’s uncomfortable for men to hear and leads to a negative feedback loop. It’s us that’s doing this, so we have to be grown up and be the change.

I read an article a few years ago about womens experiences of walking home from a night out. It’s so different to mine, and I want that to change. "

That's my point I reckon. If we all feel like we're together then the nice men will accept responsibility and say, be more aware that they might make a lady nervous if they're walking the same way home. If they are more aware they could dunno, keep more of a distance or introduce themselves in a jolly way or some shit. I guess that could make someone more nervous.

But do you get my meaning? If good people feel like they're united in this then that's where the change will come from

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 11/03/22 08:30:39]

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic.

*This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. *

We need to become better men.

I doubt you have ever done this dude. You don't need to become a better man, the world just needs more men like you

I guess I was talking generically, but that’s a very nice thing to say.

I know you were man. I do think it should be changed to 'people who won't accpet this in society'

I'd be gutted if someone lumped me into that catagory just because I was male. So I understand the guys on a back foot. But if we take the OP's advice and don't derail it then we can (altogether) try and solve it. No bruised ego's and such, just a better place for us all

***Trouble is, because we are male, women don’t know if they can trust us or not.***

That’s uncomfortable for men to hear and leads to a negative feedback loop. It’s us that’s doing this, so we have to be grown up and be the change.

I read an article a few years ago about womens experiences of walking home from a night out. It’s so different to mine, and I want that to change.

***

I think this is why the 'trick a woman into bed' went so badly.

A supposedly nice colleague trying to manipulate a situation where she would have sex with him. In a very vulnerable situation of sleeping in the same room.

Sorry, I’m lost? "

I suggest you green arrow HardAdam for context.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *rMojoRisinMan
over a year ago

Sheffield


"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic.

*This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. *

We need to become better men.

I doubt you have ever done this dude. You don't need to become a better man, the world just needs more men like you

I guess I was talking generically, but that’s a very nice thing to say.

I know you were man. I do think it should be changed to 'people who won't accpet this in society'

I'd be gutted if someone lumped me into that catagory just because I was male. So I understand the guys on a back foot. But if we take the OP's advice and don't derail it then we can (altogether) try and solve it. No bruised ego's and such, just a better place for us all

***Trouble is, because we are male, women don’t know if they can trust us or not.***

That’s uncomfortable for men to hear and leads to a negative feedback loop. It’s us that’s doing this, so we have to be grown up and be the change.

I read an article a few years ago about womens experiences of walking home from a night out. It’s so different to mine, and I want that to change.

***

I think this is why the 'trick a woman into bed' went so badly.

A supposedly nice colleague trying to manipulate a situation where she would have sex with him. In a very vulnerable situation of sleeping in the same room.

Sorry, I’m lost?

I suggest you green arrow HardAdam for context. "

Ah, I thought it was directed at me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic.

*This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. *

We need to become better men.

I doubt you have ever done this dude. You don't need to become a better man, the world just needs more men like you

I guess I was talking generically, but that’s a very nice thing to say.

I know you were man. I do think it should be changed to 'people who won't accpet this in society'

I'd be gutted if someone lumped me into that catagory just because I was male. So I understand the guys on a back foot. But if we take the OP's advice and don't derail it then we can (altogether) try and solve it. No bruised ego's and such, just a better place for us all

Trouble is, because we are male, women don’t know if they can trust us or not. That’s uncomfortable for men to hear and leads to a negative feedback loop. It’s us that’s doing this, so we have to be grown up and be the change.

I read an article a few years ago about womens experiences of walking home from a night out. It’s so different to mine, and I want that to change.

That's my point I reckon. If we all feel like we're together then the nice men will accept responsibility and say, be more aware that they might make a lady nervous if they're walking the same way home. If they are more aware they could dunno, keep more of a distance or introduce themselves in a jolly way or some shit. I guess that could make someone more nervous.

But do you get my meaning? If good people feel like they're united in this then that's where the change will come from "

Absolutely. I think changes are more likely to happen if men see other men behaving in ways that women value.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic.

*This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. *

We need to become better men.

I doubt you have ever done this dude. You don't need to become a better man, the world just needs more men like you

I guess I was talking generically, but that’s a very nice thing to say.

I know you were man. I do think it should be changed to 'people who won't accpet this in society'

I'd be gutted if someone lumped me into that catagory just because I was male. So I understand the guys on a back foot. But if we take the OP's advice and don't derail it then we can (altogether) try and solve it. No bruised ego's and such, just a better place for us all

***Trouble is, because we are male, women don’t know if they can trust us or not.***

That’s uncomfortable for men to hear and leads to a negative feedback loop. It’s us that’s doing this, so we have to be grown up and be the change.

I read an article a few years ago about womens experiences of walking home from a night out. It’s so different to mine, and I want that to change.

***

I think this is why the 'trick a woman into bed' went so badly.

A supposedly nice colleague trying to manipulate a situation where she would have sex with him. In a very vulnerable situation of sleeping in the same room.

Sorry, I’m lost?

I suggest you green arrow HardAdam for context.

Ah, I thought it was directed at me. "

Of course not!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Mayne it is becoming more prevalent, as women are finding their voices, maybe some men who don't want women to rise, are doubling efforts to keep them down?

Just a thought. "

Feminism and this conspiracy that men are out to crash women is part of the problem.

Historically men sacrificed their lives to save their women's and still do at war. But the culture of feminism and individualism are killing that quality in most men. Also evolutionists are indoctrinating people that we are a mere talking animals whose main purpose in life is to pursue our animalistic individual desires so long that you don't get caught doing something wrong by the law.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic.

*This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. *

We need to become better men.

I doubt you have ever done this dude. You don't need to become a better man, the world just needs more men like you

I guess I was talking generically, but that’s a very nice thing to say.

I know you were man. I do think it should be changed to 'people who won't accpet this in society'

I'd be gutted if someone lumped me into that catagory just because I was male. So I understand the guys on a back foot. But if we take the OP's advice and don't derail it then we can (altogether) try and solve it. No bruised ego's and such, just a better place for us all

***Trouble is, because we are male, women don’t know if they can trust us or not.***

That’s uncomfortable for men to hear and leads to a negative feedback loop. It’s us that’s doing this, so we have to be grown up and be the change.

I read an article a few years ago about womens experiences of walking home from a night out. It’s so different to mine, and I want that to change.

***

I think this is why the 'trick a woman into bed' went so badly.

A supposedly nice colleague trying to manipulate a situation where she would have sex with him. In a very vulnerable situation of sleeping in the same room.

Sorry, I’m lost?

I suggest you green arrow HardAdam for context.

Ah, I thought it was directed at me. "

Not at all, sorry. X

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *rMojoRisinMan
over a year ago

Sheffield


"Mayne it is becoming more prevalent, as women are finding their voices, maybe some men who don't want women to rise, are doubling efforts to keep them down?

Just a thought.

Feminism and this conspiracy that men are out to crash women is part of the problem.

Historically men sacrificed their lives to save their women's and still do at war. But the culture of feminism and individualism are killing that quality in most men. Also evolutionists are indoctrinating people that we are a mere talking animals whose main purpose in life is to pursue our animalistic individual desires so long that you don't get caught doing something wrong by the law. "

You have an interesting take on life!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Mayne it is becoming more prevalent, as women are finding their voices, maybe some men who don't want women to rise, are doubling efforts to keep them down?

Just a thought.

Feminism and this conspiracy that men are out to crash women is part of the problem.

Historically men sacrificed their lives to save their women's and still do at war. But the culture of feminism and individualism are killing that quality in most men. Also evolutionists are indoctrinating people that we are a mere talking animals whose main purpose in life is to pursue our animalistic individual desires so long that you don't get caught doing something wrong by the law. "

Seriously women shouldn't be individuals because that's what I've read from that, that we should be protected by men? We don't need to be protected we just don't need to be subject to inappropriate behaviour, Comments and violence.

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By *teve_it_aloneMan
over a year ago

Dunfermline


"Mayne it is becoming more prevalent, as women are finding their voices, maybe some men who don't want women to rise, are doubling efforts to keep them down?

Just a thought.

Feminism and this conspiracy that men are out to crash women is part of the problem.

Historically men sacrificed their lives to save their women's and still do at war. But the culture of feminism and individualism are killing that quality in most men. Also evolutionists are indoctrinating people that we are a mere talking animals whose main purpose in life is to pursue our animalistic individual desires so long that you don't get caught doing something wrong by the law. "

Just checking… you’re saying violence against women is the fault of feminism? What a ludicrous position to to take.

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By *rMojoRisinMan
over a year ago

Sheffield


"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic.

*This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. *

We need to become better men.

I doubt you have ever done this dude. You don't need to become a better man, the world just needs more men like you

I guess I was talking generically, but that’s a very nice thing to say.

I know you were man. I do think it should be changed to 'people who won't accpet this in society'

I'd be gutted if someone lumped me into that catagory just because I was male. So I understand the guys on a back foot. But if we take the OP's advice and don't derail it then we can (altogether) try and solve it. No bruised ego's and such, just a better place for us all

***Trouble is, because we are male, women don’t know if they can trust us or not.***

That’s uncomfortable for men to hear and leads to a negative feedback loop. It’s us that’s doing this, so we have to be grown up and be the change.

I read an article a few years ago about womens experiences of walking home from a night out. It’s so different to mine, and I want that to change.

***

I think this is why the 'trick a woman into bed' went so badly.

A supposedly nice colleague trying to manipulate a situation where she would have sex with him. In a very vulnerable situation of sleeping in the same room.

Sorry, I’m lost?

I suggest you green arrow HardAdam for context.

Ah, I thought it was directed at me.

Not at all, sorry. X "

No apology necessary, I wasn’t paying attention.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Mayne it is becoming more prevalent, as women are finding their voices, maybe some men who don't want women to rise, are doubling efforts to keep them down?

Just a thought.

Feminism and this conspiracy that men are out to crash women is part of the problem.

Historically men sacrificed their lives to save their women's and still do at war. But the culture of feminism and individualism are killing that quality in most men. Also evolutionists are indoctrinating people that we are a mere talking animals whose main purpose in life is to pursue our animalistic individual desires so long that you don't get caught doing something wrong by the law. "

Well. Your true colours are certainly showing today aren't they?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"When my ex assaulted me, the police who took my statement I couldn't fault. They were supportive, gave me information about women's support groups, and encouraged me to make the statement as I wasn't sure I wanted it to be dragged through a court.

I'm so glad to be out of that relationship now. It took some time to be completely free of him. I relish my peaceful life now.

I've been thinking about volunteering at a women's shelter.

I'm so glad you got out and you were supported in doing so. "

Thank you x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Mayne it is becoming more prevalent, as women are finding their voices, maybe some men who don't want women to rise, are doubling efforts to keep them down?

Just a thought.

Feminism and this conspiracy that men are out to crash women is part of the problem.

Historically men sacrificed their lives to save their women's and still do at war. But the culture of feminism and individualism are killing that quality in most men. Also evolutionists are indoctrinating people that we are a mere talking animals whose main purpose in life is to pursue our animalistic individual desires so long that you don't get caught doing something wrong by the law. "

Wait, what?

How is feminism to blame for violence against women??

Don’t like what they say so slap them?

I mean, I’m not a huge fan of some elements of feminism and the way they see men but I’m not sure they’re partly to blame for men being cowardly fucking knobheads.

Also no men in the last 100 years or so have gone to war to sacrifice themselves for women.

I can’t speak for everyone’s motives for going but I’m fairly certain few (none) would give that answer.

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By *essie.Woman
over a year ago

Serendipity

One of the difficulties now is social media. I regularly see posts on faceache with someone asking if anyone knows a certain person. I often think - what if they’ve fled violence and that’s their ex trying to locate them. People are always answering these posts with confirmation they know said person.

And if there are children involved it must be really difficult to not give away anything regarding location. If they use social media too. This gives perpetrators the opportunity to find their ex partner more easily. They can be very persuasive in getting someone back. Saying it won’t ever happen again. Of course it does.

I left a domestic abusive relationship and it wasn’t until I had left that I realised how isolated I had been from all my family and friends. When I had an incident involving him years later, the police were onto it immediately and I felt they had come a long way in how they dealt with it.

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By *oan of DArcCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow


"

But the culture of feminism and individualism are killing that quality in most men."

............................

That sounds like a man problem, not a womankind one.

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By *rMojoRisinMan
over a year ago

Sheffield


"Mayne it is becoming more prevalent, as women are finding their voices, maybe some men who don't want women to rise, are doubling efforts to keep them down?

Just a thought.

Feminism and this conspiracy that men are out to crash women is part of the problem.

Historically men sacrificed their lives to save their women's and still do at war. But the culture of feminism and individualism are killing that quality in most men. Also evolutionists are indoctrinating people that we are a mere talking animals whose main purpose in life is to pursue our animalistic individual desires so long that you don't get caught doing something wrong by the law.

Wait, what?

How is feminism to blame for violence against women??

Don’t like what they say so slap them?

I mean, I’m not a huge fan of some elements of feminism and the way they see men but I’m not sure they’re partly to blame for men being cowardly fucking knobheads.

Also no men in the last 100 years or so have gone to war to sacrifice themselves for women.

I can’t speak for everyone’s motives for going but I’m fairly certain few (none) would give that answer."

Because it’s the wimmins fault, innit!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic.

*This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. *

The causes are deep rooted in modern western culture and laws that have put women in a vulnerable state and both men and women in a socially frustrated situation.

There is no simple answer. But the society as a whole needs deep thinkers who could look where we went wrong. Look at the cultural changes in the past century that made women more vulnerable. Look at other cultures in the past and present where women were protected against such violence more efficiently. What happened to our moral code, habits, culture, spirituality ect. Too many factors at play.

We have been indoctrinated that every social innovation of the modern days is good and everything that worked in the past for the collective is backward.

Where/ when were women protected against violence more efficiently?

Genuine question, not trying to be a dick.

You took the words out of my mouth because I think in a lot of ways women are more protected now than they ever have been. Still. good enough but it's better than it was. "

That's a collective self rightousness that people have been told for demagogy and collective pride/nationalism. It's not backed by any statistical or unbiased scientific comparison. The statistics however tell a different story. Between present and past it's getting worse. Between this culture and others, this one is amongst the worst. That's just a fact.

All this talk that "women in this country in present days are more keen to come out and report abuse" is not telling the whole story and is often used to deny the fact. Because if you deny the facts the whole claim that we are better than the "others" and better than "us in the past" will collapse.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic.

*This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. *

The causes are deep rooted in modern western culture and laws that have put women in a vulnerable state and both men and women in a socially frustrated situation.

There is no simple answer. But the society as a whole needs deep thinkers who could look where we went wrong. Look at the cultural changes in the past century that made women more vulnerable. Look at other cultures in the past and present where women were protected against such violence more efficiently. What happened to our moral code, habits, culture, spirituality ect. Too many factors at play.

We have been indoctrinated that every social innovation of the modern days is good and everything that worked in the past for the collective is backward.

Where/ when were women protected against violence more efficiently?

Genuine question, not trying to be a dick.

You took the words out of my mouth because I think in a lot of ways women are more protected now than they ever have been. Still. good enough but it's better than it was.

That's a collective self rightousness that people have been told for demagogy and collective pride/nationalism. It's not backed by any statistical or unbiased scientific comparison. The statistics however tell a different story. Between present and past it's getting worse. Between this culture and others, this one is amongst the worst. That's just a fact.

All this talk that "women in this country in present days are more keen to come out and report abuse" is not telling the whole story and is often used to deny the fact. Because if you deny the facts the whole claim that we are better than the "others" and better than "us in the past" will collapse. "

It's absolutely not getting worse the difference is it is now illegal to hit your wife, To withhold property from her, To engage in non consensual sex for example. Laws have changed over the years and to be honest you are talking absolute nonsense.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Mayne it is becoming more prevalent, as women are finding their voices, maybe some men who don't want women to rise, are doubling efforts to keep them down?

Just a thought.

Feminism and this conspiracy that men are out to crash women is part of the problem.

Historically men sacrificed their lives to save their women's and still do at war. But the culture of feminism and individualism are killing that quality in most men. Also evolutionists are indoctrinating people that we are a mere talking animals whose main purpose in life is to pursue our animalistic individual desires so long that you don't get caught doing something wrong by the law.

Seriously women shouldn't be individuals because that's what I've read from that, that we should be protected by men? We don't need to be protected we just don't need to be subject to inappropriate behaviour, Comments and violence. "

Exactly! Years ago the law protected men from prosecution, as a spouse couldn’t report her partner for sexual violence/physical assault, as she was his wife and couldn’t give evidence against her husband. Women were little more than chattel, and that was the 80’s! Where was the protective side of men then? Some women still believe that as long as he long as he doesn’t punch her, a man is a good man. I fail to see, how anything that means a woman knows, and can stand up for her rights, to be treated as an equal to a man, is a bad thing. Secure men don’t feel threatened by a woman asking to be treated as a person in their own rights. Secure men don’t see women as a weak sex that they need to protect. They see them as equals. They wouldn’t assault a man on a regular basis, just to prove they could control them, or think they owned them. So many women were fighting a war, within their own home, just to survive the day to day living, with a “protective” man.

Women shouldn’t need to demand respect, to point out that violence against them is wrong, it should be a given. Attitudes are changing, but need to change further, when men see women standing up for themselves, as emasculating men in society xx

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By *eavenscentitCouple
over a year ago

barnstaple


"Part of the problem is that the police have a very high incidence of domestic violence in their own families.

Your average policeman does not care. Just look at how some of them treat women in public

Sad but true. Some of them are great but many are very dismissive of abuse, harassment and stalking.

And sadly very very many are perpetrators themselves and pretty much always get away with it and I’ve seen this personally with a very close friend of mine who continies to be abused by her ex who is a police officer as they close ranks and protect him despite reams of evidence!!!

https://www.channel4.com/news/more-than-100-women-accuse-police-officers-of-domestic-abuse-alleging-boys-club-culture"

Yes, my ex was a police officer. He told me nobody would listen.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Part of the problem is that the police have a very high incidence of domestic violence in their own families.

Your average policeman does not care. Just look at how some of them treat women in public "

Can you provide evidence of the high incidence of DA in police officer's families?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic.

*This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. *

The causes are deep rooted in modern western culture and laws that have put women in a vulnerable state and both men and women in a socially frustrated situation.

There is no simple answer. But the society as a whole needs deep thinkers who could look where we went wrong. Look at the cultural changes in the past century that made women more vulnerable. Look at other cultures in the past and present where women were protected against such violence more efficiently. What happened to our moral code, habits, culture, spirituality ect. Too many factors at play.

We have been indoctrinated that every social innovation of the modern days is good and everything that worked in the past for the collective is backward.

Where/ when were women protected against violence more efficiently?

Genuine question, not trying to be a dick.

You took the words out of my mouth because I think in a lot of ways women are more protected now than they ever have been. Still. good enough but it's better than it was.

That's a collective self rightousness that people have been told for demagogy and collective pride/nationalism. It's not backed by any statistical or unbiased scientific comparison. The statistics however tell a different story. Between present and past it's getting worse. Between this culture and others, this one is amongst the worst. That's just a fact.

All this talk that "women in this country in present days are more keen to come out and report abuse" is not telling the whole story and is often used to deny the fact. Because if you deny the facts the whole claim that we are better than the "others" and better than "us in the past" will collapse. "

I hesitate before using this word. But everything you've written suggests you're swallowing incel beliefs wholesale. You've quoted no facts. No statistics. Just rhetoric.

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By *rMojoRisinMan
over a year ago

Sheffield


"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic.

*This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. *

The causes are deep rooted in modern western culture and laws that have put women in a vulnerable state and both men and women in a socially frustrated situation.

There is no simple answer. But the society as a whole needs deep thinkers who could look where we went wrong. Look at the cultural changes in the past century that made women more vulnerable. Look at other cultures in the past and present where women were protected against such violence more efficiently. What happened to our moral code, habits, culture, spirituality ect. Too many factors at play.

We have been indoctrinated that every social innovation of the modern days is good and everything that worked in the past for the collective is backward.

Where/ when were women protected against violence more efficiently?

Genuine question, not trying to be a dick.

You took the words out of my mouth because I think in a lot of ways women are more protected now than they ever have been. Still. good enough but it's better than it was.

That's a collective self rightousness that people have been told for demagogy and collective pride/nationalism. It's not backed by any statistical or unbiased scientific comparison. The statistics however tell a different story. Between present and past it's getting worse. Between this culture and others, this one is amongst the worst. That's just a fact.

All this talk that "women in this country in present days are more keen to come out and report abuse" is not telling the whole story and is often used to deny the fact. Because if you deny the facts the whole claim that we are better than the "others" and better than "us in the past" will collapse. "

Lots of words, jumbled together like a word salad.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Part of the problem is that the police have a very high incidence of domestic violence in their own families.

Your average policeman does not care. Just look at how some of them treat women in public

Can you provide evidence of the high incidence of DA in police officer's families?"

There has been several reports released recently that would back that statement up.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic.

*This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. *

The causes are deep rooted in modern western culture and laws that have put women in a vulnerable state and both men and women in a socially frustrated situation.

There is no simple answer. But the society as a whole needs deep thinkers who could look where we went wrong. Look at the cultural changes in the past century that made women more vulnerable. Look at other cultures in the past and present where women were protected against such violence more efficiently. What happened to our moral code, habits, culture, spirituality ect. Too many factors at play.

We have been indoctrinated that every social innovation of the modern days is good and everything that worked in the past for the collective is backward.

Where/ when were women protected against violence more efficiently?

Genuine question, not trying to be a dick.

You took the words out of my mouth because I think in a lot of ways women are more protected now than they ever have been. Still. good enough but it's better than it was.

That's a collective self rightousness that people have been told for demagogy and collective pride/nationalism. It's not backed by any statistical or unbiased scientific comparison. The statistics however tell a different story. Between present and past it's getting worse. Between this culture and others, this one is amongst the worst. That's just a fact.

All this talk that "women in this country in present days are more keen to come out and report abuse" is not telling the whole story and is often used to deny the fact. Because if you deny the facts the whole claim that we are better than the "others" and better than "us in the past" will collapse.

It's absolutely not getting worse the difference is it is now illegal to hit your wife, To withhold property from her, To engage in non consensual sex for example. Laws have changed over the years and to be honest you are talking absolute nonsense. "

The statistics are telling a different story. Domestic violence is at its historical peak.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic.

*This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. *

The causes are deep rooted in modern western culture and laws that have put women in a vulnerable state and both men and women in a socially frustrated situation.

There is no simple answer. But the society as a whole needs deep thinkers who could look where we went wrong. Look at the cultural changes in the past century that made women more vulnerable. Look at other cultures in the past and present where women were protected against such violence more efficiently. What happened to our moral code, habits, culture, spirituality ect. Too many factors at play.

We have been indoctrinated that every social innovation of the modern days is good and everything that worked in the past for the collective is backward.

Where/ when were women protected against violence more efficiently?

Genuine question, not trying to be a dick.

You took the words out of my mouth because I think in a lot of ways women are more protected now than they ever have been. Still. good enough but it's better than it was.

That's a collective self rightousness that people have been told for demagogy and collective pride/nationalism. It's not backed by any statistical or unbiased scientific comparison. The statistics however tell a different story. Between present and past it's getting worse. Between this culture and others, this one is amongst the worst. That's just a fact.

All this talk that "women in this country in present days are more keen to come out and report abuse" is not telling the whole story and is often used to deny the fact. Because if you deny the facts the whole claim that we are better than the "others" and better than "us in the past" will collapse.

It's absolutely not getting worse the difference is it is now illegal to hit your wife, To withhold property from her, To engage in non consensual sex for example. Laws have changed over the years and to be honest you are talking absolute nonsense.

The statistics are telling a different story. Domestic violence is at its historical peak."

No the reporting of domestic violence is at historical peak there is massive difference!

And the insinuation that if what you are saying is true which it isn't is that because women want to be individuals that's why men are more violent towards them and that is a disgusting attitude.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I sense this thread has been hijacked somewhat so taking this opportunity to thank all of you (with two exceptions) for contributing. I've found it genuinely thought provoking and I so appreciate those who shared their stories.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 11/03/22 08:59:07]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic.

*This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. *

The causes are deep rooted in modern western culture and laws that have put women in a vulnerable state and both men and women in a socially frustrated situation.

There is no simple answer. But the society as a whole needs deep thinkers who could look where we went wrong. Look at the cultural changes in the past century that made women more vulnerable. Look at other cultures in the past and present where women were protected against such violence more efficiently. What happened to our moral code, habits, culture, spirituality ect. Too many factors at play.

We have been indoctrinated that every social innovation of the modern days is good and everything that worked in the past for the collective is backward.

Where/ when were women protected against violence more efficiently?

Genuine question, not trying to be a dick.

You took the words out of my mouth because I think in a lot of ways women are more protected now than they ever have been. Still. good enough but it's better than it was.

That's a collective self rightousness that people have been told for demagogy and collective pride/nationalism. It's not backed by any statistical or unbiased scientific comparison. The statistics however tell a different story. Between present and past it's getting worse. Between this culture and others, this one is amongst the worst. That's just a fact.

All this talk that "women in this country in present days are more keen to come out and report abuse" is not telling the whole story and is often used to deny the fact. Because if you deny the facts the whole claim that we are better than the "others" and better than "us in the past" will collapse.

It's absolutely not getting worse the difference is it is now illegal to hit your wife, To withhold property from her, To engage in non consensual sex for example. Laws have changed over the years and to be honest you are talking absolute nonsense.

The statistics are telling a different story. Domestic violence is at its historical peak.

No the reporting of domestic violence is at historical peak there is massive difference!

And the insinuation that if what you are saying is true which it isn't is that because women want to be individuals that's why men are more violent towards them and that is a disgusting attitude. "

A murder of a woman by a family member or a husband didnt't go unreported in the past. With all the new laws that protect women it's getting much worse. You're trying to simplify an extremely complexe issue and reduce it into one factor. I never said that feminism is the problem. I said it's part of the problem.

A woman in the past had more backing by her male members of her direct family, neighborhood, clan ect. Now she is a vulnerable individual in the jungle told that men are her enemy by feminists. That's part of the problem.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Part of the problem is that the police have a very high incidence of domestic violence in their own families.

Your average policeman does not care. Just look at how some of them treat women in public

Can you provide evidence of the high incidence of DA in police officer's families?

There has been several reports released recently that would back that statement up. "

No they don't because the plural of anecdote is not data. What you have to show in order to back up the statement is that it is more prevalent in police officers than in society as a whole.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

The names of the women killed by men in 2020, read out in Parliament by Jess Phillips MP on the 10th March 2022. Data from The Femicide Census 2020.

Abida Karim

Amy-Leanne Stringfellow Aneta Zdun

Ann Mowbray

Aya Hachem

Balvinder Gahir

Bea Walker

Bhavini Pravin

Bibaa Henry

Caroline Kayll

Caroline Walker

Cherith Van Der Ploeg

Claire Parry

Clare Nash

Dawn Bennett

Dawn Fletcher

Debbie Zurick

Deborah Jones/Hendrick Denise Keane Barnett Simmons Elsie Smith

Emma McParland

Esther Egbon

Gemma Marjoram

Gian Kaur Bhandal

Gwendoline Bound

Helen Almey

Helen Bannister

Hyacinth Morris

Jackie (Jacqueline) Hoadley Jadwiga Szczygielsk

Janice Child

Janice Woolford

Jasbir Kaur

Judith Rhead

Karolina Zinkeviciene

Kate (Katherine) Bevan Katie Walker

Kelly Fitzgibbons

Kelly Price

Kelly Stewart

Kimberly Deakin

Li Qing-Wang

Lorraine Cox

Louise Aitchison

Louise Smith

Lynda Cooper

Magdalena Pacult

Mandy Houghton

Margaret Johnson

Maria Howarth

Marie Gladders

Marta Vento

Mary Haley

Maryan Ismail

Maureen Kidd Melissa Belshaw Najeeba Al-Ariqy Stella Frew

Nelly Mustafa

Nicole Smallman

Nikoleta Zdun

Paula Leather

Poorna Kaameshwari-Sivaraj Rhonda Humphreys Rosemary Hill

Ruth Brown

Ruth Williams

Saman Mir Sacharvi

Sarah Smith

Shelly Clark

Silke Hartshorne Jones

Suzanne Winnister

Tracey Kidd

Valerie Jozunas

Vian Mangrio

Victoria Woodhall

Wendy Morse

Yvonne 'Vonnie' Lawson McCann

Zahida Bi

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool


"As a person who as always looked for a partner to be an equal I find it difficult to understand why one would wish to exercise such control over an other person by what ever means, violent or otherwise.

I find it very sad that men behave in such a despicable manor.

I would wish that all women report to the police any sexual assault however minor, an uninvited touch on the bottom for example. Zero tolerance. I think this would perhaps be a start to tackling the problem. I don’t imagine for a moment that it would solve the problem but perhaps it would deter some abusers and mark a line that sexual abuse is not acceptable in any form. Are there any women who have never been sexually assaulted?

When I was younger and went to nightclubs and used public transport a lot I would have never been out of the police station if I reported it every time.

Same. It still happens to me now as an adult. Two distinct times I can remember while out at a bar before lockdown. I deal with it differently now though and absolutely won't tolerate it.

Same it's just not a weekly occurrence anymore because I'm not around people enough these days .

The thread has moved fast, but I just wanted to acknowledge what you've shared, Lacey. The situation with your brother must have been so difficult for you, and affected your relationship with your family permanently. You should have been protected. "

Thank you

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *oan of DArcCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic.

*This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. *

The causes are deep rooted in modern western culture and laws that have put women in a vulnerable state and both men and women in a socially frustrated situation.

There is no simple answer. But the society as a whole needs deep thinkers who could look where we went wrong. Look at the cultural changes in the past century that made women more vulnerable. Look at other cultures in the past and present where women were protected against such violence more efficiently. What happened to our moral code, habits, culture, spirituality ect. Too many factors at play.

We have been indoctrinated that every social innovation of the modern days is good and everything that worked in the past for the collective is backward.

Where/ when were women protected against violence more efficiently?

Genuine question, not trying to be a dick.

You took the words out of my mouth because I think in a lot of ways women are more protected now than they ever have been. Still. good enough but it's better than it was.

That's a collective self rightousness that people have been told for demagogy and collective pride/nationalism. It's not backed by any statistical or unbiased scientific comparison. The statistics however tell a different story. Between present and past it's getting worse. Between this culture and others, this one is amongst the worst. That's just a fact.

All this talk that "women in this country in present days are more keen to come out and report abuse" is not telling the whole story and is often used to deny the fact. Because if you deny the facts the whole claim that we are better than the "others" and better than "us in the past" will collapse.

Lots of words, jumbled together like a word salad."

............................

With an acidic dressing

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *rMojoRisinMan
over a year ago

Sheffield


"The names of the women killed by men in 2020, read out in Parliament by Jess Phillips MP on the 10th March 2022. Data from The Femicide Census 2020.

Abida Karim

Amy-Leanne Stringfellow Aneta Zdun

Ann Mowbray

Aya Hachem

Balvinder Gahir

Bea Walker

Bhavini Pravin

Bibaa Henry

Caroline Kayll

Caroline Walker

Cherith Van Der Ploeg

Claire Parry

Clare Nash

Dawn Bennett

Dawn Fletcher

Debbie Zurick

Deborah Jones/Hendrick Denise Keane Barnett Simmons Elsie Smith

Emma McParland

Esther Egbon

Gemma Marjoram

Gian Kaur Bhandal

Gwendoline Bound

Helen Almey

Helen Bannister

Hyacinth Morris

Jackie (Jacqueline) Hoadley Jadwiga Szczygielsk

Janice Child

Janice Woolford

Jasbir Kaur

Judith Rhead

Karolina Zinkeviciene

Kate (Katherine) Bevan Katie Walker

Kelly Fitzgibbons

Kelly Price

Kelly Stewart

Kimberly Deakin

Li Qing-Wang

Lorraine Cox

Louise Aitchison

Louise Smith

Lynda Cooper

Magdalena Pacult

Mandy Houghton

Margaret Johnson

Maria Howarth

Marie Gladders

Marta Vento

Mary Haley

Maryan Ismail

Maureen Kidd Melissa Belshaw Najeeba Al-Ariqy Stella Frew

Nelly Mustafa

Nicole Smallman

Nikoleta Zdun

Paula Leather

Poorna Kaameshwari-Sivaraj Rhonda Humphreys Rosemary Hill

Ruth Brown

Ruth Williams

Saman Mir Sacharvi

Sarah Smith

Shelly Clark

Silke Hartshorne Jones

Suzanne Winnister

Tracey Kidd

Valerie Jozunas

Vian Mangrio

Victoria Woodhall

Wendy Morse

Yvonne 'Vonnie' Lawson McCann

Zahida Bi

"

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic.

*This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. *

The causes are deep rooted in modern western culture and laws that have put women in a vulnerable state and both men and women in a socially frustrated situation.

There is no simple answer. But the society as a whole needs deep thinkers who could look where we went wrong. Look at the cultural changes in the past century that made women more vulnerable. Look at other cultures in the past and present where women were protected against such violence more efficiently. What happened to our moral code, habits, culture, spirituality ect. Too many factors at play.

We have been indoctrinated that every social innovation of the modern days is good and everything that worked in the past for the collective is backward.

Where/ when were women protected against violence more efficiently?

Genuine question, not trying to be a dick.

You took the words out of my mouth because I think in a lot of ways women are more protected now than they ever have been. Still. good enough but it's better than it was.

That's a collective self rightousness that people have been told for demagogy and collective pride/nationalism. It's not backed by any statistical or unbiased scientific comparison. The statistics however tell a different story. Between present and past it's getting worse. Between this culture and others, this one is amongst the worst. That's just a fact.

All this talk that "women in this country in present days are more keen to come out and report abuse" is not telling the whole story and is often used to deny the fact. Because if you deny the facts the whole claim that we are better than the "others" and better than "us in the past" will collapse.

It's absolutely not getting worse the difference is it is now illegal to hit your wife, To withhold property from her, To engage in non consensual sex for example. Laws have changed over the years and to be honest you are talking absolute nonsense.

The statistics are telling a different story. Domestic violence is at its historical peak.

No the reporting of domestic violence is at historical peak there is massive difference!

And the insinuation that if what you are saying is true which it isn't is that because women want to be individuals that's why men are more violent towards them and that is a disgusting attitude.

A murder of a woman by a family member or a husband didnt't go unreported in the past. With all the new laws that protect women it's getting much worse. You're trying to simplify an extremely complexe issue and reduce it into one factor. I never said that feminism is the problem. I said it's part of the problem.

A woman in the past had more backing by her male members of her direct family, neighborhood, clan ect. Now she is a vulnerable individual in the jungle told that men are her enemy by feminists. That's part of the problem. "

Sorry, but totally disagree. Depends on the family etc. when I grew up it was common place for the women to have black eyes, they didn’t like it, but they accepted it, as it was just the way men were. Men in the family may have postured to the abusive man, but then go home and do the same to their own spouses. Women don’t see men as their enemies, they see violent men as being in the wrong. That’s not feminism, it’s common decency, it’s equality, it’s morals. Men shouldn’t blame feminism, they should look internally and see if they are part of the problem. Violence isn’t the answer, it has never been the answer.

I’m in no way a “militant” feminist (which I suspect is your idea of what a feminist is) but I am a female saying that I have the right to feel safe

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *xploring_FunWoman
over a year ago

Coventry


"

Exactly! Years ago the law protected men from prosecution, as a spouse couldn’t report her partner for sexual violence/physical assault, as she was his wife and couldn’t give evidence against her husband. Women were little more than chattel, and that was the 80’s! Where was the protective side of men then?"

It went even later than that.

The first time anything legal said “no, you can’t r@pe your wife” was in 1991.

Marital r@pe wasn’t defined in law until 2003.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"The causes are deep rooted in modern western culture and laws that have put women in a vulnerable state and both men and women in a socially frustrated situation.

There is no simple answer. But the society as a whole needs deep thinkers who could look where we went wrong. Look at the cultural changes in the past century that made women more vulnerable. Look at other cultures in the past and present where women were protected against such violence more efficiently. What happened to our moral code, habits, culture, spirituality ect. Too many factors at play.

We have been indoctrinated that every social innovation of the modern days is good and everything that worked in the past for the collective is backward.

Where/ when were women protected against violence more efficiently?

Genuine question, not trying to be a dick.

You took the words out of my mouth because I think in a lot of ways women are more protected now than they ever have been. Still. good enough but it's better than it was.

That's a collective self rightousness that people have been told for demagogy and collective pride/nationalism. It's not backed by any statistical or unbiased scientific comparison. The statistics however tell a different story. Between present and past it's getting worse. Between this culture and others, this one is amongst the worst. That's just a fact.

All this talk that "women in this country in present days are more keen to come out and report abuse" is not telling the whole story and is often used to deny the fact. Because if you deny the facts the whole claim that we are better than the "others" and better than "us in the past" will collapse.

It's absolutely not getting worse the difference is it is now illegal to hit your wife, To withhold property from her, To engage in non consensual sex for example. Laws have changed over the years and to be honest you are talking absolute nonsense.

The statistics are telling a different story. Domestic violence is at its historical peak.

No the reporting of domestic violence is at historical peak there is massive difference!

And the insinuation that if what you are saying is true which it isn't is that because women want to be individuals that's why men are more violent towards them and that is a disgusting attitude.

A murder of a woman by a family member or a husband didnt't go unreported in the past. With all the new laws that protect women it's getting much worse. You're trying to simplify an extremely complexe issue and reduce it into one factor. I never said that feminism is the problem. I said it's part of the problem.

A woman in the past had more backing by her male members of her direct family, neighborhood, clan ect. Now she is a vulnerable individual in the jungle told that men are her enemy by feminists. That's part of the problem. "

"A vulnerable individual in the jungle told that men are her enemy by feminists".

More crappy rhetoric.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool


"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic.

*This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. *

The causes are deep rooted in modern western culture and laws that have put women in a vulnerable state and both men and women in a socially frustrated situation.

There is no simple answer. But the society as a whole needs deep thinkers who could look where we went wrong. Look at the cultural changes in the past century that made women more vulnerable. Look at other cultures in the past and present where women were protected against such violence more efficiently. What happened to our moral code, habits, culture, spirituality ect. Too many factors at play.

We have been indoctrinated that every social innovation of the modern days is good and everything that worked in the past for the collective is backward.

Where/ when were women protected against violence more efficiently?

Genuine question, not trying to be a dick.

You took the words out of my mouth because I think in a lot of ways women are more protected now than they ever have been. Still. good enough but it's better than it was.

That's a collective self rightousness that people have been told for demagogy and collective pride/nationalism. It's not backed by any statistical or unbiased scientific comparison. The statistics however tell a different story. Between present and past it's getting worse. Between this culture and others, this one is amongst the worst. That's just a fact.

All this talk that "women in this country in present days are more keen to come out and report abuse" is not telling the whole story and is often used to deny the fact. Because if you deny the facts the whole claim that we are better than the "others" and better than "us in the past" will collapse.

It's absolutely not getting worse the difference is it is now illegal to hit your wife, To withhold property from her, To engage in non consensual sex for example. Laws have changed over the years and to be honest you are talking absolute nonsense.

The statistics are telling a different story. Domestic violence is at its historical peak.

No the reporting of domestic violence is at historical peak there is massive difference!

And the insinuation that if what you are saying is true which it isn't is that because women want to be individuals that's why men are more violent towards them and that is a disgusting attitude.

A murder of a woman by a family member or a husband didnt't go unreported in the past. With all the new laws that protect women it's getting much worse. You're trying to simplify an extremely complexe issue and reduce it into one factor. I never said that feminism is the problem. I said it's part of the problem.

A woman in the past had more backing by her male members of her direct family, neighborhood, clan ect. Now she is a vulnerable individual in the jungle told that men are her enemy by feminists. That's part of the problem. "

No it isn't. My family is mostly male and most of my cousins are significantly older than me. If I needed backing or even physical protection I could easily get it. The problem is that abusers are smart enough to only abuse you in private. Feminists didn't teach me that men are the enemy. I don't believe men are the enemy. I am nervous of them until I know them well though. It was the men who abused me and sexually assaulted me who taught me to be fearful.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *teve_it_aloneMan
over a year ago

Dunfermline


"Part of the problem is that the police have a very high incidence of domestic violence in their own families.

Your average policeman does not care. Just look at how some of them treat women in public

Can you provide evidence of the high incidence of DA in police officer's families?

There has been several reports released recently that would back that statement up.

No they don't because the plural of anecdote is not data. What you have to show in order to back up the statement is that it is more prevalent in police officers than in society as a whole. "

There’s not a lot of good research in the subject. The main study quoted in this subject is Neidig et al (1992). There are some concerns around the sample selection, but there is certainly a takeaway that points towards there being value in further study.

Power imbalance is accepted as being an important factor in DA. Adding warranted powers and the other real and perceived power imbalances involved when someone is a police officer adds a whole other dynamic to any abuse.

It also can’t be detached from the woeful approach taken by police and other parts of the justice system (on a systemic and individual basis) in ‘dealing with’ domestic abuse in the past.

I do think some of the broad brush criticisms are unfair, but like the “all lives matter”, crowd, police would do well to recognise that the priority just now shouldn’t be “they said I’m bad, but I’m not”.

The police response is significantly improving, clearly the vast majority of officers are not abusers and on the contrary are working to help victims (and apprehend perpetrators)… but it’s a consideration we can’t afford to be blind to.

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By *ustBoWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in Co. Down

[Removed by poster at 11/03/22 09:37:52]

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