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"Regarding the Scottish GRC the bill will allow trans people to get the certificate more easily, i wish the government would concentrate on reforming the GICs and train GPs to help trans people with informed consent but the uk still uses the GIC model from the 1970s x anyway Joanne should stick to writing fairy tails and shut up x " Agreed she should shut up !! X | |||
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"Well this went down like a lead balloon I thought there’d be a few terfs with some Transphobic opinions to probe " so im guessing its designed to start a row with folks then well im stopping out of it  | |||
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"Well this went down like a lead balloon I thought there’d be a few terfs with some Transphobic opinions to probe so im guessing its designed to start a row with folks then well im stopping out of it "Exactly why I intended to stay out of it. | |||
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"Well this went down like a lead balloon I thought there’d be a few terfs with some Transphobic opinions to probe " Is that a certificate to allow pretence? Guessing Terf is some acronym for right thinking people that don't play pretend mostly known as the majority but like cis the great pretenders want to give everyone an acronym. Peoples none excepting of others opinions is why you will never find a status quo on this as we all have a right to an opinion and your lack of intellect stops you seeing that. | |||
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"Well this went down like a lead balloon I thought there’d be a few terfs with some Transphobic opinions to probe Is that a certificate to allow pretence? Guessing Terf is some acronym for right thinking people that don't play pretend mostly known as the majority but like cis the great pretenders want to give everyone an acronym. Peoples none excepting of others opinions is why you will never find a status quo on this as we all have a right to an opinion and your lack of intellect stops you seeing that. " you talking to me ? As a trans woman I have a keen interested in trans rights in the uk the uk is one of the worst countries in the first world to be trans in, I agree the Scottish government should be focused on changing the outdated GIC system rather that the GRC which in the grand scheme of things don’t really matter | |||
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"Why should JK Rowling shut up? You may not like her views but That doesn't mean she shouldn't be allowed to express them and to be honest I think she is being scapegoated. She has raised some very valid concerns in the past that lots of people feel. I don't agree with everything she says however I do agree with her right to say it. " why does she need to weigh in on trans rights ? She should stick to writing half baked fairy tales | |||
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"Well this went down like a lead balloon I thought there’d be a few terfs with some Transphobic opinions to probe " This just gives me the impression you came here to fight instead of discuss | |||
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"Why should JK Rowling shut up? You may not like her views but That doesn't mean she shouldn't be allowed to express them and to be honest I think she is being scapegoated. She has raised some very valid concerns in the past that lots of people feel. I don't agree with everything she says however I do agree with her right to say it. why does she need to weigh in on trans rights ? She should stick to writing half baked fairy tales" If she has a strong opinion on its then yes of course she can speak about it. Whether we like it or not there are difficult conversations that are going to need to be had. | |||
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"Well this went down like a lead balloon I thought there’d be a few terfs with some Transphobic opinions to probe This just gives me the impression you came here to fight instead of discuss " I mean incredibly, me and you agree once in a while 
But yeah, I think the topic is so polarised and have very polarised opinion on both sides.
I think ultimately, voicing out how it is to live the way some of us live, like a normal functioning woman (or man), Is what will make some people go…
Well I see it and I’m listening to your story. At least that is my personal experience.
By the way, there’s a brilliant documentary on Netflix called Disclosure about these issues and I totally recommend it  | |||
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"Well this went down like a lead balloon I thought there’d be a few terfs with some Transphobic opinions to probe This just gives me the impression you came here to fight instead of discuss " experience has taught me to be harsh | |||
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"Well this went down like a lead balloon I thought there’d be a few terfs with some Transphobic opinions to probe This just gives me the impression you came here to fight instead of discuss I mean incredibly, me and you agree once in a while
But yeah, I think the topic is so polarised and have very polarised opinion on both sides.
I think ultimately, voicing out how it is to live the way some of us live, like a normal functioning woman (or man), Is what will make some people go…
Well I see it and I’m listening to your story. At least that is my personal experience.
By the way, there’s a brilliant documentary on Netflix called Disclosure about these issues and I totally recommend it "sounds like an extra terrestrial documentary but thank you for the recommendation I watch it | |||
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"Well this went down like a lead balloon I thought there’d be a few terfs with some Transphobic opinions to probe This just gives me the impression you came here to fight instead of discuss experience has taught me to be harsh " I get that but I just don't see how a lot of what you have said is helpful to the conversation around trans rights. I don't believe that JK Rowling for example deserves a lot of the hate that has been directed towards her and I don't see how it's helpful to combat hate with hate. Conversations are a 2 way street, I think to completely shut down someone's point of view simply because you don't agree with it and call it transphobic isn't helpful to anybody. | |||
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"I thought her comment to the equalities minister on Tuesday - send her a dictionary and a backbone - after she failed on national radio to define “woman” and “adult” was spot on. " The issues in the UK stem down to an outdated 1970s Gic system we need informed consent and retraining from the ground up GPs it really is awful to be trans in the UK It’s not known as turf island for nothing x | |||
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"Well this went down like a lead balloon I thought there’d be a few terfs with some Transphobic opinions to probe This just gives me the impression you came here to fight instead of discuss experience has taught me to be harsh I get that but I just don't see how a lot of what you have said is helpful to the conversation around trans rights. I don't believe that JK Rowling for example deserves a lot of the hate that has been directed towards her and I don't see how it's helpful to combat hate with hate. Conversations are a 2 way street, I think to completely shut down someone's point of view simply because you don't agree with it and call it transphobic isn't helpful to anybody. " In the grand scheme of things a GRC is pretty useless the topic needs to focus on reforming the whole system not just the GRC | |||
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"Well this went down like a lead balloon I thought there’d be a few terfs with some Transphobic opinions to probe This just gives me the impression you came here to fight instead of discuss experience has taught me to be harsh " Experience or not, it's not going to do your own view/life/opinion/fact any favours with others by looking for a fight and being hostile from the start. Did you train at Eagle Fang or Cobra Kai by any chance? | |||
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"I thought her comment to the equalities minister on Tuesday - send her a dictionary and a backbone - after she failed on national radio to define “woman” and “adult” was spot on. The issues in the UK stem down to an outdated 1970s Gic system we need informed consent and retraining from the ground up GPs it really is awful to be trans in the UK It’s not known as turf island for nothing x " I agree, It isn’t easy to be trans in the U.K., if you are fortunate to have support and money, then it is easier and you can go private route but the cost of transitioning is …EXPENSIVE. £30-50K …or more for some people. | |||
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"I thought her comment to the equalities minister on Tuesday - send her a dictionary and a backbone - after she failed on national radio to define “woman” and “adult” was spot on. The issues in the UK stem down to an outdated 1970s Gic system we need informed consent and retraining from the ground up GPs it really is awful to be trans in the UK It’s not known as turf island for nothing x I agree, It isn’t easy to be trans in the U.K., if you are fortunate to have support and money, then it is easier and you can go private route but the cost of transitioning is …EXPENSIVE. £30-50K …or more for some people. " definitely and a lot of trans people harm themselves in the UK because the system is awful GPs need training more specialists in the field then no need for Gender GP to be mopping up and making a fortune out of all the trans people on the horrendous waiting lists for the GICs it’s a system model born out of the 1970s and it’s awful and makes the specialists a fortune in there private clinics, the GRC is useless the Scottish government should be pushing to reform the system not the GRC | |||
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"I definitely want to see a change in GPs treatment of trans. I don't agree with JKs views on any of this." no she’s talking shite and not helping the situation in the slightest x | |||
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"There is an absolute amazing interview with Anthony Mackie that despite it being centralised on racism, applies to pretty much everything. youtube.com/watch?v=b8PGNSa_Irg" Totally agree when he said… just listen , people are clouded with opinions, that they forget to …listen | |||
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"There is an absolute amazing interview with Anthony Mackie that despite it being centralised on racism, applies to pretty much everything. youtube.com/watch?v=b8PGNSa_Irg Totally agree when he said… just listen , people are clouded with opinions, that they forget to …listen" What he said is for the most part how I usually went about things anyway. When I actually saw that interview for the first time it just enforced to me how important it is to "listen" to what people are saying, hate or not, listen and then go about discussing what you just heard, compared to your original thoughts. And that applies to all sides of the discission/arguement/insult throwing. | |||
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"Why should JK Rowling shut up? You may not like her views but That doesn't mean she shouldn't be allowed to express them and to be honest I think she is being scapegoated. She has raised some very valid concerns in the past that lots of people feel. I don't agree with everything she says however I do agree with her right to say it. why does she need to weigh in on trans rights ? She should stick to writing half baked fairy tales" Because she is a woman, a real one and can see the dangerous pretence that is overcoming silly bits of society like educational facilities & councils. Meanwhile in the real world it,ll never be accepted. | |||
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"I definitely want to see a change in GPs treatment of trans. I don't agree with JKs views on any of this. no she’s talking shite and not helping the situation in the slightest x " You mean she's not playing pretend like yourself. | |||
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"Why should JK Rowling shut up? You may not like her views but That doesn't mean she shouldn't be allowed to express them and to be honest I think she is being scapegoated. She has raised some very valid concerns in the past that lots of people feel. I don't agree with everything she says however I do agree with her right to say it. why does she need to weigh in on trans rights ? She should stick to writing half baked fairy tales Because she is a woman, a real one and can see the dangerous pretence that is overcoming silly bits of society like educational facilities & councils. Meanwhile in the real world it,ll never be accepted." So sad reading comments like yours. Really sad. And I’m gonna leave it there | |||
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"Why should JK Rowling shut up? You may not like her views but That doesn't mean she shouldn't be allowed to express them and to be honest I think she is being scapegoated. She has raised some very valid concerns in the past that lots of people feel. I don't agree with everything she says however I do agree with her right to say it. why does she need to weigh in on trans rights ? She should stick to writing half baked fairy tales Because she is a woman, a real one and can see the dangerous pretence that is overcoming silly bits of society like educational facilities & councils. Meanwhile in the real world it,ll never be accepted." Good god what a vile comment!!  | |||
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"Why should JK Rowling shut up? You may not like her views but That doesn't mean she shouldn't be allowed to express them and to be honest I think she is being scapegoated. She has raised some very valid concerns in the past that lots of people feel. I don't agree with everything she says however I do agree with her right to say it. why does she need to weigh in on trans rights ? She should stick to writing half baked fairy tales Because she is a woman, a real one and can see the dangerous pretence that is overcoming silly bits of society like educational facilities & councils. Meanwhile in the real world it,ll never be accepted. Good god what a vile comment!! "Is that all you've got, not much of an argument? | |||
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"Why should JK Rowling shut up? You may not like her views but That doesn't mean she shouldn't be allowed to express them and to be honest I think she is being scapegoated. She has raised some very valid concerns in the past that lots of people feel. I don't agree with everything she says however I do agree with her right to say it. why does she need to weigh in on trans rights ? She should stick to writing half baked fairy tales Because she is a woman, a real one and can see the dangerous pretence that is overcoming silly bits of society like educational facilities & councils. Meanwhile in the real world it,ll never be accepted. Good god what a vile comment!!
Is that all you've got, not much of an argument? "Just gobsmacked for once unbelievable!!! | |||
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"I definitely want to see a change in GPs treatment of trans. I don't agree with JKs views on any of this. no she’s talking shite and not helping the situation in the slightest x You mean she's not playing pretend like yourself. " that’s a bit harsh I do what I need to do to be happy in the world without causing harm to anyone else | |||
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"I definitely want to see a change in GPs treatment of trans. I don't agree with JKs views on any of this. no she’s talking shite and not helping the situation in the slightest x " What has she said that you disagree with? | |||
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"Why should JK Rowling shut up? You may not like her views but That doesn't mean she shouldn't be allowed to express them and to be honest I think she is being scapegoated. She has raised some very valid concerns in the past that lots of people feel. I don't agree with everything she says however I do agree with her right to say it. why does she need to weigh in on trans rights ? She should stick to writing half baked fairy tales Because she is a woman, a real one and can see the dangerous pretence that is overcoming silly bits of society like educational facilities & councils. Meanwhile in the real world it,ll never be accepted. Good god what a vile comment!!
Is that all you've got, not much of an argument?
Just gobsmacked for once unbelievable!!!"We go back to listening and that comment is just nasty for the sake of being nasty. It isn’t even an opinion where you can have “much of an argument” about and the bin is where it belongs 
Candy, just as a reminder that I love your compassion | |||
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"Why should JK Rowling shut up? You may not like her views but That doesn't mean she shouldn't be allowed to express them and to be honest I think she is being scapegoated. She has raised some very valid concerns in the past that lots of people feel. I don't agree with everything she says however I do agree with her right to say it. why does she need to weigh in on trans rights ? She should stick to writing half baked fairy tales Because she is a woman, a real one and can see the dangerous pretence that is overcoming silly bits of society like educational facilities & councils. Meanwhile in the real world it,ll never be accepted. Good god what a vile comment!!
Is that all you've got, not much of an argument?
Just gobsmacked for once unbelievable!!!
We go back to listening and that comment is just nasty for the sake of being nasty. It isn’t even an opinion where you can have “much of an argument” about and the bin is where it belongs
Candy, just as a reminder that I love your compassion "I love u kylie xx | |||
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"I’ll always be an obvious trans woman in public I’m 6 foot tall need FFS and I’d take bottom surgery in a flash when I’m at the top of the waiting list, I just want society to be more accepting and people like Joanne don’t help, I try to live full time presenting the best I can with a covid mask I can pass fairly well my voice is still to deep, It’s like I’m marmite people either hate me or love me, my wish is people are more understanding and stopping the hate yes a lot of issues need sorting out like trans people in sports and in public changing rooms and there’s always bad apples. I hope the Scottish government gets the bill past but I wish it was completely reformed as it’s so unfair and will be for trans people in England and Wales if it becomes a lot easier in Scotland, a GRC don’t mean much but for a trans person it does " xxxx | |||
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"I agree JK Rowling should shut up about subjects that don't affect her in the slightest. It is annoying that her hateful views make the news every time she spouts off." The problem is it does affect her. If certain organisations and authorities got their way we wouldn't be able to use the word women any more. There are lots of examples where women have been told they can't refer to certain parts of their own anatomy In a way that is exclusive to a cis female. I agree this is often just people with extreme views that try and introduce things like chest feeding. As a woman we have every right to defend how we choose to identify ourselves too. The cervical cancer leaflets for example that said people who menstruate, The prostate cancer leaflets don't say people with a prostate they say men so she has got a point the point is she is not being listened to just dismissed as spouting hate. Like I said further up difficult conversations are going to need to be had and there is no easy solution however dismissing people for having a different viewpoint and calling them hateful or telling them to shut up hes not helpful. | |||
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"Why should JK Rowling shut up? You may not like her views but That doesn't mean she shouldn't be allowed to express them and to be honest I think she is being scapegoated. She has raised some very valid concerns in the past that lots of people feel. I don't agree with everything she says however I do agree with her right to say it. why does she need to weigh in on trans rights ? She should stick to writing half baked fairy tales Because she is a woman, a real one and can see the dangerous pretence that is overcoming silly bits of society like educational facilities & councils. Meanwhile in the real world it,ll never be accepted." Very unhelpful and very unnecessary. | |||
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"I agree JK Rowling should shut up about subjects that don't affect her in the slightest. It is annoying that her hateful views make the news every time she spouts off." No. I don't see that because you disagree with her opinions that she has to "shut up". That is not debate. | |||
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"I agree JK Rowling should shut up about subjects that don't affect her in the slightest. It is annoying that her hateful views make the news every time she spouts off. The problem is it does affect her. If certain organisations and authorities got their way we wouldn't be able to use the word women any more. There are lots of examples where women have been told they can't refer to certain parts of their own anatomy In a way that is exclusive to a cis female. I agree this is often just people with extreme views that try and introduce things like chest feeding. As a woman we have every right to defend how we choose to identify ourselves too. The cervical cancer leaflets for example that said people who menstruate, The prostate cancer leaflets don't say people with a prostate they say men so she has got a point the point is she is not being listened to just dismissed as spouting hate. Like I said further up difficult conversations are going to need to be had and there is no easy solution however dismissing people for having a different viewpoint and calling them hateful or telling them to shut up hes not helpful. " We often clash, Lorna. But I agree with all you've said. These are difficult conversations to have - but they need to be had. Without instructing women to shut up. | |||
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"I agree JK Rowling should shut up about subjects that don't affect her in the slightest. It is annoying that her hateful views make the news every time she spouts off. The problem is it does affect her. If certain organisations and authorities got their way we wouldn't be able to use the word women any more. There are lots of examples where women have been told they can't refer to certain parts of their own anatomy In a way that is exclusive to a cis female. I agree this is often just people with extreme views that try and introduce things like chest feeding. As a woman we have every right to defend how we choose to identify ourselves too. The cervical cancer leaflets for example that said people who menstruate, The prostate cancer leaflets don't say people with a prostate they say men so she has got a point the point is she is not being listened to just dismissed as spouting hate. Like I said further up difficult conversations are going to need to be had and there is no easy solution however dismissing people for having a different viewpoint and calling them hateful or telling them to shut up hes not helpful. " Good point Some people have genuine concerns on both sides, difficult conversations need to had to protect everyone, not some at the expense of others. Listening/debate without hate & with the desire to find a solution that protects all is the way to progress the issue, but both sides sadly use extreme language/ terminology & shoot down vocal extremists on the opposing side with hate. Its fractured many feminist groups & organisations down the middle with lots of people stuck in the middle relating to both sides of the debate, but not to the extremists on either side. Sin xo | |||
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"I agree JK Rowling should shut up about subjects that don't affect her in the slightest. It is annoying that her hateful views make the news every time she spouts off. The problem is it does affect her. If certain organisations and authorities got their way we wouldn't be able to use the word women any more. There are lots of examples where women have been told they can't refer to certain parts of their own anatomy In a way that is exclusive to a cis female. I agree this is often just people with extreme views that try and introduce things like chest feeding. As a woman we have every right to defend how we choose to identify ourselves too. The cervical cancer leaflets for example that said people who menstruate, The prostate cancer leaflets don't say people with a prostate they say men so she has got a point the point is she is not being listened to just dismissed as spouting hate. Like I said further up difficult conversations are going to need to be had and there is no easy solution however dismissing people for having a different viewpoint and calling them hateful or telling them to shut up hes not helpful. Good point Some people have genuine concerns on both sides, difficult conversations need to had to protect everyone, not some at the expense of others. Listening/debate without hate & with the desire to find a solution that protects all is the way to progress the issue, but both sides sadly use extreme language/ terminology & shoot down vocal extremists on the opposing side with hate. Its fractured many feminist groups & organisations down the middle with lots of people stuck in the middle relating to both sides of the debate, but not to the extremists on either side. Sin xo "That's the problem though isn't it it's the extreme on both sides that normally have the loudest voices. Those of us like me that are somewhere in the middle that want to protect our right to identify as a woman and to have safe female spaces but also understand the needs and concerns of the trans community kind of get drowned out. I have a close family relative who is struggling with their gender identity at the moment and it's a different and complex situation. All I can do is listen and try to understand but my relative also understands it's not easy for those around them either. Open and Frank dialogue is the only way forward. | |||
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"Well this went down like a lead balloon I thought there’d be a few terfs with some Transphobic opinions to probe " Doesn't seem like there's anything to probe. You want to shut down any conversation that doesn't match your truth, so what's the point in anyone engaging with you? Try to do better next time buddy, and you might get more open dialog with people. | |||
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"I agree JK Rowling should shut up about subjects that don't affect her in the slightest. It is annoying that her hateful views make the news every time she spouts off. The problem is it does affect her. If certain organisations and authorities got their way we wouldn't be able to use the word women any more. There are lots of examples where women have been told they can't refer to certain parts of their own anatomy In a way that is exclusive to a cis female. I agree this is often just people with extreme views that try and introduce things like chest feeding. As a woman we have every right to defend how we choose to identify ourselves too. The cervical cancer leaflets for example that said people who menstruate, The prostate cancer leaflets don't say people with a prostate they say men so she has got a point the point is she is not being listened to just dismissed as spouting hate. Like I said further up difficult conversations are going to need to be had and there is no easy solution however dismissing people for having a different viewpoint and calling them hateful or telling them to shut up hes not helpful. " | |||
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"Well this went down like a lead balloon I thought there’d be a few terfs with some Transphobic opinions to probe Doesn't seem like there's anything to probe. You want to shut down any conversation that doesn't match your truth, so what's the point in anyone engaging with you? Try to do better next time buddy, and you might get more open dialog with people. " On the contrary it’s been quite an interesting thread seems you’ve got nothing of value to add to it though x | |||
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"Well this went down like a lead balloon I thought there’d be a few terfs with some Transphobic opinions to probe Doesn't seem like there's anything to probe. You want to shut down any conversation that doesn't match your truth, so what's the point in anyone engaging with you? Try to do better next time buddy, and you might get more open dialog with people. On the contrary it’s been quite an interesting thread seems you’ve got nothing of value to add to it though x " Again you are shutting people down but he does have a point. | |||
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"I agree JK Rowling should shut up about subjects that don't affect her in the slightest. It is annoying that her hateful views make the news every time she spouts off. The problem is it does affect her. If certain organisations and authorities got their way we wouldn't be able to use the word women any more. There are lots of examples where women have been told they can't refer to certain parts of their own anatomy In a way that is exclusive to a cis female. I agree this is often just people with extreme views that try and introduce things like chest feeding. As a woman we have every right to defend how we choose to identify ourselves too. The cervical cancer leaflets for example that said people who menstruate, The prostate cancer leaflets don't say people with a prostate they say men so she has got a point the point is she is not being listened to just dismissed as spouting hate. Like I said further up difficult conversations are going to need to be had and there is no easy solution however dismissing people for having a different viewpoint and calling them hateful or telling them to shut up hes not helpful. " | |||
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"Well this went down like a lead balloon I thought there’d be a few terfs with some Transphobic opinions to probe Doesn't seem like there's anything to probe. You want to shut down any conversation that doesn't match your truth, so what's the point in anyone engaging with you? Try to do better next time buddy, and you might get more open dialog with people. On the contrary it’s been quite an interesting thread seems you’ve got nothing of value to add to it though x Again you are shutting people down but he does have a point. " and what’s his point exactly? I’ve discussed how the GRC is a pretty pointless certification and that the Scottish government should focus on reformation of the outdated GIC system I’m not about shutting people down at all just pointing out a rich multimillionaire should keep her silly mouth shut | |||
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"Well this went down like a lead balloon I thought there’d be a few terfs with some Transphobic opinions to probe Doesn't seem like there's anything to probe. You want to shut down any conversation that doesn't match your truth, so what's the point in anyone engaging with you? Try to do better next time buddy, and you might get more open dialog with people. On the contrary it’s been quite an interesting thread seems you’ve got nothing of value to add to it though x Again you are shutting people down but he does have a point. and what’s his point exactly? I’ve discussed how the GRC is a pretty pointless certification and that the Scottish government should focus on reformation of the outdated GIC system I’m not about shutting people down at all just pointing out a rich multimillionaire should keep her silly mouth shut " You say you aren't shutting people down except you have just said because she's a multi millionaire she should shut her mouth. I'm not a millionaire and I share some of JK Rowling's concerns I and she has every right to voice those. | |||
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"Well this went down like a lead balloon I thought there’d be a few terfs with some Transphobic opinions to probe Doesn't seem like there's anything to probe. You want to shut down any conversation that doesn't match your truth, so what's the point in anyone engaging with you? Try to do better next time buddy, and you might get more open dialog with people. On the contrary it’s been quite an interesting thread seems you’ve got nothing of value to add to it though x Again you are shutting people down but he does have a point. and what’s his point exactly? I’ve discussed how the GRC is a pretty pointless certification and that the Scottish government should focus on reformation of the outdated GIC system I’m not about shutting people down at all just pointing out a rich multimillionaire should keep her silly mouth shut You say you aren't shutting people down except you have just said because she's a multi millionaire she should shut her mouth. I'm not a millionaire and I share some of JK Rowling's concerns I and she has every right to voice those. " and what are her concerns exactly about trans women or men obtaining a gender recognition certificate? | |||
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"Well this went down like a lead balloon I thought there’d be a few terfs with some Transphobic opinions to probe Doesn't seem like there's anything to probe. You want to shut down any conversation that doesn't match your truth, so what's the point in anyone engaging with you? Try to do better next time buddy, and you might get more open dialog with people. On the contrary it’s been quite an interesting thread seems you’ve got nothing of value to add to it though x Again you are shutting people down but he does have a point. and what’s his point exactly? I’ve discussed how the GRC is a pretty pointless certification and that the Scottish government should focus on reformation of the outdated GIC system I’m not about shutting people down at all just pointing out a rich multimillionaire should keep her silly mouth shut You say you aren't shutting people down except you have just said because she's a multi millionaire she should shut her mouth. I'm not a millionaire and I share some of JK Rowling's concerns I and she has every right to voice those. and what are her concerns exactly about trans women or men obtaining a gender recognition certificate? " I've listed some of the concerns above. | |||
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"Well this went down like a lead balloon I thought there’d be a few terfs with some Transphobic opinions to probe Doesn't seem like there's anything to probe. You want to shut down any conversation that doesn't match your truth, so what's the point in anyone engaging with you? Try to do better next time buddy, and you might get more open dialog with people. On the contrary it’s been quite an interesting thread seems you’ve got nothing of value to add to it though x Again you are shutting people down but he does have a point. and what’s his point exactly? I’ve discussed how the GRC is a pretty pointless certification and that the Scottish government should focus on reformation of the outdated GIC system I’m not about shutting people down at all just pointing out a rich multimillionaire should keep her silly mouth shut You say you aren't shutting people down except you have just said because she's a multi millionaire she should shut her mouth. I'm not a millionaire and I share some of JK Rowling's concerns I and she has every right to voice those. and what are her concerns exactly about trans women or men obtaining a gender recognition certificate? " ? You started the thread to complain about her daring to say that she had concerns. But you don't know what they are? | |||
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"Well this went down like a lead balloon I thought there’d be a few terfs with some Transphobic opinions to probe Doesn't seem like there's anything to probe. You want to shut down any conversation that doesn't match your truth, so what's the point in anyone engaging with you? Try to do better next time buddy, and you might get more open dialog with people. On the contrary it’s been quite an interesting thread seems you’ve got nothing of value to add to it though x Again you are shutting people down but he does have a point. and what’s his point exactly? I’ve discussed how the GRC is a pretty pointless certification and that the Scottish government should focus on reformation of the outdated GIC system I’m not about shutting people down at all just pointing out a rich multimillionaire should keep her silly mouth shut You say you aren't shutting people down except you have just said because she's a multi millionaire she should shut her mouth. I'm not a millionaire and I share some of JK Rowling's concerns I and she has every right to voice those. and what are her concerns exactly about trans women or men obtaining a gender recognition certificate? ? You started the thread to complain about her daring to say that she had concerns. But you don't know what they are? " I’m quite aware of what they are that’s why I started the thread she doesn’t like the fact that the Scottish government are making it easier for trans people to obtain a gender recognition certificate | |||
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"I agree JK Rowling should shut up about subjects that don't affect her in the slightest. It is annoying that her hateful views make the news every time she spouts off. The problem is it does affect her. If certain organisations and authorities got their way we wouldn't be able to use the word women any more. There are lots of examples where women have been told they can't refer to certain parts of their own anatomy In a way that is exclusive to a cis female. I agree this is often just people with extreme views that try and introduce things like chest feeding. As a woman we have every right to defend how we choose to identify ourselves too. The cervical cancer leaflets for example that said people who menstruate, The prostate cancer leaflets don't say people with a prostate they say men so she has got a point the point is she is not being listened to just dismissed as spouting hate. Like I said further up difficult conversations are going to need to be had and there is no easy solution however dismissing people for having a different viewpoint and calling them hateful or telling them to shut up hes not helpful. " Having checked the NHS website, it states “women and people with a cervix”. The prostate cancer page on mentions of transwomen, but that would seem more an indication that it should be updated, not that the cervical cancer page should be made less-inclusive. | |||
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"I agree JK Rowling should shut up about subjects that don't affect her in the slightest. It is annoying that her hateful views make the news every time she spouts off. The problem is it does affect her. If certain organisations and authorities got their way we wouldn't be able to use the word women any more. There are lots of examples where women have been told they can't refer to certain parts of their own anatomy In a way that is exclusive to a cis female. I agree this is often just people with extreme views that try and introduce things like chest feeding. As a woman we have every right to defend how we choose to identify ourselves too. The cervical cancer leaflets for example that said people who menstruate, The prostate cancer leaflets don't say people with a prostate they say men so she has got a point the point is she is not being listened to just dismissed as spouting hate. Like I said further up difficult conversations are going to need to be had and there is no easy solution however dismissing people for having a different viewpoint and calling them hateful or telling them to shut up hes not helpful. Having checked the NHS website, it states “women and people with a cervix”. The prostate cancer page on mentions of transwomen, but that would seem more an indication that it should be updated, not that the cervical cancer page should be made less-inclusive. " | |||
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"I’m trying to explain to you all that agenda recognition certificate in the grand scheme of things doesn’t really mean much" The legislation essentially brings in self-ID. That does mean quite a lot doesn't it? And this is what JKR and others are querying. Not the simplification of the process of obtaining a GRC, but that it can gained through self-declaration rather than a medical diagnosis. I think I have stated this accurately. | |||
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"I’m trying to explain to you all that agenda recognition certificate in the grand scheme of things doesn’t really mean much The legislation essentially brings in self-ID. That does mean quite a lot doesn't it? And this is what JKR and others are querying. Not the simplification of the process of obtaining a GRC, but that it can gained through self-declaration rather than a medical diagnosis. I think I have stated this accurately. " Absolutely not we should work towards an informed consent model just like America and the rest of Europe do not an outdated 1970s gatekeeper model | |||
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"I’m trying to explain to you all that agenda recognition certificate in the grand scheme of things doesn’t really mean much The legislation essentially brings in self-ID. That does mean quite a lot doesn't it? And this is what JKR and others are querying. Not the simplification of the process of obtaining a GRC, but that it can gained through self-declaration rather than a medical diagnosis. I think I have stated this accurately. Absolutely not we should work towards an informed consent model just like America and the rest of Europe do not an outdated 1970s gatekeeper model" I'm not following your answer | |||
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"Who the hell has the right to say you can and you can’t do anything in your own body it’s my life I can do what I want with it if I wanna go down the road and drink a gallon of petrol I can if I want to take cross sex hormones i can it’s my life " Maybe grab a snickers when you pop in the garage for the petrol | |||
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"Who the hell has the right to say you can and you can’t do anything in your own body it’s my life I can do what I want with it if I wanna go down the road and drink a gallon of petrol I can if I want to take cross sex hormones i can it’s my life " If you can't remain calm, there can't be a calm discussion. | |||
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"Who the hell has the right to say you can and you can’t do anything in your own body it’s my life I can do what I want with it if I wanna go down the road and drink a gallon of petrol I can if I want to take cross sex hormones i can it’s my life If you can't remain calm, there can't be a calm discussion. " how do you know I’m not calm ? I’m as calm as a cucumber x I’m just trying to point out how absolutely ridiculous it’s all this | |||
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"Who the hell has the right to say you can and you can’t do anything in your own body it’s my life I can do what I want with it if I wanna go down the road and drink a gallon of petrol I can if I want to take cross sex hormones i can it’s my life " You seen the price of petrol at the minute? Health implications aside I don’t think you thought this through from a financial perspective. | |||
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"Who the hell has the right to say you can and you can’t do anything in your own body it’s my life I can do what I want with it if I wanna go down the road and drink a gallon of petrol I can if I want to take cross sex hormones i can it’s my life If you can't remain calm, there can't be a calm discussion. how do you know I’m not calm ? I’m as calm as a cucumber x I’m just trying to point out how absolutely ridiculous it’s all this" Because your comments aren't calm. | |||
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"I’m trying to explain to you all that agenda recognition certificate in the grand scheme of things doesn’t really mean much The legislation essentially brings in self-ID. That does mean quite a lot doesn't it? And this is what JKR and others are querying. Not the simplification of the process of obtaining a GRC, but that it can gained through self-declaration rather than a medical diagnosis. I think I have stated this accurately. Absolutely not we should work towards an informed consent model just like America and the rest of Europe do not an outdated 1970s gatekeeper model I'm not following your answer" I and many other people don't know what an informed consent model or a gatekeeper mod are - you're using terminology that most people aren't familiar with. Can you clarify please? | |||
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"I will end the post by saying Harry Potter‘s mum should stick to writing stupid fairy tales and keep her silly mouth shut x " But that's what you started the conversation with and it hasn't really got anywhere. You haven't given any reason as to why she should keep her mouth shut other than the fact you don't like what she has said and that she is a multi millionaire not that that should matter. | |||
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"I will end the post by saying Harry Potter‘s mum should stick to writing stupid fairy tales and keep her silly mouth shut x " | |||
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"Who the hell has the right to say you can and you can’t do anything in your own body it’s my life I can do what I want with it if I wanna go down the road and drink a gallon of petrol I can if I want to take cross sex hormones i can it’s my life " I don't think anyone wants to stop you from doing anything to your own body. The issues raised around trans issues are mostly when it concerns others. One issue Rowling raised was about r*pe cases where the guilty can claim they are women, without having to prove anything. Another issue is around sports. Women's category exists simply because it is a scientifically proven fact that biological males are stronger than women. Transwomen participating in that category will definitely have issues around fairness. These are matters which need discussion. | |||
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"Who the hell has the right to say you can and you can’t do anything in your own body it’s my life I can do what I want with it if I wanna go down the road and drink a gallon of petrol I can if I want to take cross sex hormones i can it’s my life I don't think anyone wants to stop you from doing anything to your own body. The issues raised around trans issues are mostly when it concerns others. One issue Rowling raised was about r*pe cases where the guilty can claim they are women, without having to prove anything. Another issue is around sports. Women's category exists simply because it is a scientifically proven fact that biological males are stronger than women. Transwomen participating in that category will definitely have issues around fairness. These are matters which need discussion. " yeah I agree even though HRT decreases strength by around 20 to 30% causes muscle atrophy alters ligaments you still have the advantage of a denser bone structure Baker Caitlyn Jenner brings up some interesting points as she herself is trans and agrees it’s unfair | |||
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"I’m trying to explain to you all that agenda recognition certificate in the grand scheme of things doesn’t really mean much The legislation essentially brings in self-ID. That does mean quite a lot doesn't it? And this is what JKR and others are querying. Not the simplification of the process of obtaining a GRC, but that it can gained through self-declaration rather than a medical diagnosis. I think I have stated this accurately. Absolutely not we should work towards an informed consent model just like America and the rest of Europe do not an outdated 1970s gatekeeper model I'm not following your answer I and many other people don't know what an informed consent model or a gatekeeper mod are - you're using terminology that most people aren't familiar with. Can you clarify please?" Not sure about informed consent but pretty sure the gatekeeper model is where a trans person has to persuade a gatekeeper ie medical professional that they are trans enough to be accepted as such. I can understand that it must feel really hard to be told you need to convince someone else you are who you believe you are. I do understand where JK is coming from but I actually disagree. We don't ban cars because some people speed. I don't believe it is right to penalise people because a small minority will abuse the the freedom the group as a whole is asking for. Taking the example of r@pists claiming to be female to be put in a woman's prison, there are far more women prisoners attacked and hurt by other female prisoners - and indeed prison officers - then by trans women yet somehow trans prisoners is a big issue? Anyone care to look at the figures for assault on trans people? Or imagine what it is like to be a trans woman on a mens prison? There are all kinds of discussions to be had around trans freedoms but honestly, women's safety is a massive strawman - trans people are at far higher risk of just about everything nasty from homelessness to assault than pretty much any other group of people in the country so I'm sorry but I don't accept the argument that allowing self identification will result in more people suffering sex based crime than not allowing it. That isn't to say I believe she should shut up or that I think everything she says is wrong. Mr | |||
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"I agree JK Rowling should shut up about subjects that don't affect her in the slightest. It is annoying that her hateful views make the news every time she spouts off." Agreed she's a nasty hateful bigot! X | |||
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"I agree JK Rowling should shut up about subjects that don't affect her in the slightest. It is annoying that her hateful views make the news every time she spouts off. Agreed she's a nasty hateful bigot! X" You keep saying but she hasn't said anything hateful or bigoted. You might not agree with her opinion but it doesn't make her hateful or a bigot. | |||
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"I agree JK Rowling should shut up about subjects that don't affect her in the slightest. It is annoying that her hateful views make the news every time she spouts off. Agreed she's a nasty hateful bigot! X You keep saying but she hasn't said anything hateful or bigoted. You might not agree with her opinion but it doesn't make her hateful or a bigot. " I had a quick look to see what hateful, bigoted things she's said, but I can't find anything. Seems to be more a case of "You have to change your idiology to reflect mine, or you're a bigot.", which is very bigoted | |||
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"I agree JK Rowling should shut up about subjects that don't affect her in the slightest. It is annoying that her hateful views make the news every time she spouts off. Agreed she's a nasty hateful bigot! X You keep saying but she hasn't said anything hateful or bigoted. You might not agree with her opinion but it doesn't make her hateful or a bigot. I had a quick look to see what hateful, bigoted things she's said, but I can't find anything. Seems to be more a case of "You have to change your idiology to reflect mine, or you're a bigot.", which is very bigoted "Yes and that's my point. It's far too easy now for people to claim people are spreading hate or are somehow transphobic or Whatever simply because they don't like what someone is saying. | |||
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"I agree JK Rowling should shut up about subjects that don't affect her in the slightest. It is annoying that her hateful views make the news every time she spouts off." You have no argument, just spouting more of the I don't like her opinion so she should shut up. Where is she wrong. Women are women and men are men, its really that simple and you know it. Stop playing pretend. | |||
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Don’t argue with idiots. They’ll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience | |||
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"I agree JK Rowling should shut up about subjects that don't affect her in the slightest. It is annoying that her hateful views make the news every time she spouts off. You have no argument, just spouting more of the I don't like her opinion so she should shut up. Where is she wrong. Women are women and men are men, its really that simple and you know it. Stop playing pretend. " It's not as simple as that and you posted a very Provocative comment further up. This is not about who the OP is or how they identify themselves so it really isn't for you to comment on that. | |||
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"I agree JK Rowling should shut up about subjects that don't affect her in the slightest. It is annoying that her hateful views make the news every time she spouts off. You have no argument, just spouting more of the I don't like her opinion so she should shut up. Where is she wrong. Women are women and men are men, its really that simple and you know it. Stop playing pretend. " Your attitude on this thread (and others) is very unpleasant. It reflects badly on you that you're unable to speak to and about trans people with understanding and respect. | |||
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"Anyone care to look at the figures for assault on trans people? Or imagine what it is like to be a trans woman on a mens prison? trans people are at far higher risk of just about everything nasty from homelessness to assault than pretty much any other group of people in the country so I'm sorry but I don't accept the argument that allowing self identification will result in more people suffering sex based crime than not allowing it. Mr" !!!! | |||
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"I apologise I came at this thread perhaps with a bulldozer attitude I could’ve thought about what I was going to say better, I’m sure it’s a debate which will rubble on but I hope the public attitude improves regarding trans people that don’t pass as cis very well it’s very much marmite ATM and the media don’t help giving people like Joanne a voice every time the government do something to make our lives easier x a can be quite fiery and say things before I think, have a nice Friday " Thank you for that and I also hope life becomes easier for people like yourself. The best way is to have open and honest dialogue and try to educate people. I often act before I think so I totally understand. I just think when it's such a emotive subject for many people and let's be honest it can be a bit of a minefield it just has to be handled with a calm head. X | |||
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"I’m trying to explain to you all that agenda recognition certificate in the grand scheme of things doesn’t really mean much The legislation essentially brings in self-ID. That does mean quite a lot doesn't it? And this is what JKR and others are querying. Not the simplification of the process of obtaining a GRC, but that it can gained through self-declaration rather than a medical diagnosis. I think I have stated this accurately. Absolutely not we should work towards an informed consent model just like America and the rest of Europe do not an outdated 1970s gatekeeper model I'm not following your answer I and many other people don't know what an informed consent model or a gatekeeper mod are - you're using terminology that most people aren't familiar with. Can you clarify please? Not sure about informed consent but pretty sure the gatekeeper model is where a trans person has to persuade a gatekeeper ie medical professional that they are trans enough to be accepted as such. I can understand that it must feel really hard to be told you need to convince someone else you are who you believe you are. I do understand where JK is coming from but I actually disagree. We don't ban cars because some people speed. I don't believe it is right to penalise people because a small minority will abuse the the freedom the group as a whole is asking for. Taking the example of r@pists claiming to be female to be put in a woman's prison, there are far more women prisoners attacked and hurt by other female prisoners - and indeed prison officers - then by trans women yet somehow trans prisoners is a big issue? Anyone care to look at the figures for assault on trans people? Or imagine what it is like to be a trans woman on a mens prison? There are all kinds of discussions to be had around trans freedoms but honestly, women's safety is a massive strawman - trans people are at far higher risk of just about everything nasty from homelessness to assault than pretty much any other group of people in the country so I'm sorry but I don't accept the argument that allowing self identification will result in more people suffering sex based crime than not allowing it. That isn't to say I believe she should shut up or that I think everything she says is wrong. Mr" I agree with what you say actually! I think what Mace was saying, it’s the fact that the old NHS GIC model has long waiting cues making it very tough for trans people to transition UNLESS there’s money involved. Of course, even with money, generally there’s still a lot of hurdles to go through, talk to psychiatrists who will evaluate if you are trans enough. Personally, I do believe in getting the gender dysphoria diagnosis. But I also see the point of, it really starts with self diagnosis, when we question why. So it shouldn’t be SO extremely difficult to start the hormonal therapy, or having to have money to be able to transition properly. Like to transition privately it can cost £3000-5000 (paying for hormones every month and the fees of private hospital and all) and that’s not including any surgeries Surgeries cost between 30K going up to 50-80K I have been blessed that I had the support from my family in all senses, including money wise. And I guess the therapists I had been with, all just knew, because I easily blend and function as any woman on here. But I also see that if we use the model of “is that person trans enough” , some might struggle more than others But anyway  | |||
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"I’m trying to explain to you all that agenda recognition certificate in the grand scheme of things doesn’t really mean much The legislation essentially brings in self-ID. That does mean quite a lot doesn't it? And this is what JKR and others are querying. Not the simplification of the process of obtaining a GRC, but that it can gained through self-declaration rather than a medical diagnosis. I think I have stated this accurately. Absolutely not we should work towards an informed consent model just like America and the rest of Europe do not an outdated 1970s gatekeeper model I'm not following your answer I and many other people don't know what an informed consent model or a gatekeeper mod are - you're using terminology that most people aren't familiar with. Can you clarify please? Not sure about informed consent but pretty sure the gatekeeper model is where a trans person has to persuade a gatekeeper ie medical professional that they are trans enough to be accepted as such. I can understand that it must feel really hard to be told you need to convince someone else you are who you believe you are. I do understand where JK is coming from but I actually disagree. We don't ban cars because some people speed. I don't believe it is right to penalise people because a small minority will abuse the the freedom the group as a whole is asking for. Taking the example of r@pists claiming to be female to be put in a woman's prison, there are far more women prisoners attacked and hurt by other female prisoners - and indeed prison officers - then by trans women yet somehow trans prisoners is a big issue? Anyone care to look at the figures for assault on trans people? Or imagine what it is like to be a trans woman on a mens prison? There are all kinds of discussions to be had around trans freedoms but honestly, women's safety is a massive strawman - trans people are at far higher risk of just about everything nasty from homelessness to assault than pretty much any other group of people in the country so I'm sorry but I don't accept the argument that allowing self identification will result in more people suffering sex based crime than not allowing it. That isn't to say I believe she should shut up or that I think everything she says is wrong. Mr I agree with what you say actually! I think what Mace was saying, it’s the fact that the old NHS GIC model has long waiting cues making it very tough for trans people to transition UNLESS there’s money involved. Of course, even with money, generally there’s still a lot of hurdles to go through, talk to psychiatrists who will evaluate if you are trans enough. Personally, I do believe in getting the gender dysphoria diagnosis. But I also see the point of, it really starts with self diagnosis, when we question why. So it shouldn’t be SO extremely difficult to start the hormonal therapy, or having to have money to be able to transition properly. Like to transition privately it can cost £3000-5000 (paying for hormones every month and the fees of private hospital and all) and that’s not including any surgeries Surgeries cost between 30K going up to 50-80K I have been blessed that I had the support from my family in all senses, including money wise. And I guess the therapists I had been with, all just knew, because I easily blend and function as any woman on here. But I also see that if we use the model of “is that person trans enough” , some might struggle more than others But anyway "Damn 30-80k that’s crazy I got a life changing injury in rugby and was told to fuck off because they don’t offer the surgery to fix it on the NHS. Think it was 8-9k for it. I think the bigger issue is overall funding. If they can’t fund 8-9k to repair my hip I dunno how they can expect to fund 30-80k. That’s so much money | |||
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"I’m trying to explain to you all that agenda recognition certificate in the grand scheme of things doesn’t really mean much The legislation essentially brings in self-ID. That does mean quite a lot doesn't it? And this is what JKR and others are querying. Not the simplification of the process of obtaining a GRC, but that it can gained through self-declaration rather than a medical diagnosis. I think I have stated this accurately. Absolutely not we should work towards an informed consent model just like America and the rest of Europe do not an outdated 1970s gatekeeper model I'm not following your answer I and many other people don't know what an informed consent model or a gatekeeper mod are - you're using terminology that most people aren't familiar with. Can you clarify please? Not sure about informed consent but pretty sure the gatekeeper model is where a trans person has to persuade a gatekeeper ie medical professional that they are trans enough to be accepted as such. I can understand that it must feel really hard to be told you need to convince someone else you are who you believe you are. I do understand where JK is coming from but I actually disagree. We don't ban cars because some people speed. I don't believe it is right to penalise people because a small minority will abuse the the freedom the group as a whole is asking for. Taking the example of r@pists claiming to be female to be put in a woman's prison, there are far more women prisoners attacked and hurt by other female prisoners - and indeed prison officers - then by trans women yet somehow trans prisoners is a big issue? Anyone care to look at the figures for assault on trans people? Or imagine what it is like to be a trans woman on a mens prison? There are all kinds of discussions to be had around trans freedoms but honestly, women's safety is a massive strawman - trans people are at far higher risk of just about everything nasty from homelessness to assault than pretty much any other group of people in the country so I'm sorry but I don't accept the argument that allowing self identification will result in more people suffering sex based crime than not allowing it. That isn't to say I believe she should shut up or that I think everything she says is wrong. Mr I agree with what you say actually! I think what Mace was saying, it’s the fact that the old NHS GIC model has long waiting cues making it very tough for trans people to transition UNLESS there’s money involved. Of course, even with money, generally there’s still a lot of hurdles to go through, talk to psychiatrists who will evaluate if you are trans enough. Personally, I do believe in getting the gender dysphoria diagnosis. But I also see the point of, it really starts with self diagnosis, when we question why. So it shouldn’t be SO extremely difficult to start the hormonal therapy, or having to have money to be able to transition properly. Like to transition privately it can cost £3000-5000 (paying for hormones every month and the fees of private hospital and all) and that’s not including any surgeries Surgeries cost between 30K going up to 50-80K I have been blessed that I had the support from my family in all senses, including money wise. And I guess the therapists I had been with, all just knew, because I easily blend and function as any woman on here. But I also see that if we use the model of “is that person trans enough” , some might struggle more than others But anyway
Damn 30-80k that’s crazy
I got a life changing injury in rugby and was told to fuck off because they don’t offer the surgery to fix it on the NHS. Think it was 8-9k for it.
I think the bigger issue is overall funding. If they can’t fund 8-9k to repair my hip I dunno how they can expect to fund 30-80k. That’s so much money "The only procedure the NHS offers is gender correction surgery, so the genitals. Which is £15K I guess that’s the most important. But facial feminisation surgery is 10-30K or more and that’s to make someone appear more cis like as they work on the skull to make them appear more female. Have to say, that this procedure is not cosmetic for a lot, as it can be essential to try blend in. (Been told its painful as some literally do the lot, jaw+Chin+brown bone shave + rhinoplasty) This isn’t offered on the NHS tho. And obviously breast augmentation is another one that a lot of trans women end up doing. Definitely not on the NHS. Crazy tho that the NHS couldn’t pass a hip operation! It’s fucking disgusting | |||
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"Also did they say no to you because you got the injury playing rugby? X" I was wondering if it might be an age thing. I know a couple of people that have been told no to knee surgery because they were too young. | |||
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"Also did they say no to you because you got the injury playing rugby? X" Nope just a “we don’t fund that you’ve got to go private” I can’t run properly anymore and in pain daily. It’s been 12 years since I did it. | |||
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"Also did they say no to you because you got the injury playing rugby? X Nope just a “we don’t fund that you’ve got to go private” I can’t run properly anymore and in pain daily. It’s been 12 years since I did it. " I even had to pay for 12 weeks of private physio before they’d even consider giving me an MRI. Once we had an MRI the injury was confirmed and I was told to live with it or go private Sad times | |||
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"Also did they say no to you because you got the injury playing rugby? X Nope just a “we don’t fund that you’ve got to go private” I can’t run properly anymore and in pain daily. It’s been 12 years since I did it. " What the fuck. Totally useless, have u tried to make that request again, maybe things have changed now? | |||
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"I apologise I came at this thread perhaps with a bulldozer attitude I could’ve thought about what I was going to say better, I’m sure it’s a debate which will rubble on but I hope the public attitude improves regarding trans people that don’t pass as cis very well it’s very much marmite ATM and the media don’t help giving people like Joanne a voice every time the government do something to make our lives easier x a can be quite fiery and say things before I think, have a nice Friday " Really appreciate that Mace. I'm genuinely interested in learning more about the issues for trans people, but I do have some concerns about self-ID. I'd like to be able to discuss those without being called bigoted. I've been called that on Twitter multiple times just for asking a question. | |||
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"Also did they say no to you because you got the injury playing rugby? X Nope just a “we don’t fund that you’ve got to go private” I can’t run properly anymore and in pain daily. It’s been 12 years since I did it. What the fuck. Totally useless, have u tried to make that request again, maybe things have changed now? " The effort it takes to even get an appointment to see the doctor, I’ve give up trying Seems every aspect of the NHS is struggling. I dunno much about the trans side of things. Are they struggling more? 30-80k is a lot of money. A fraction of that would have changed my life and I got told no. Every time I’m sick I get told to wait a few weeks for an appointment | |||
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"I apologise I came at this thread perhaps with a bulldozer attitude I could’ve thought about what I was going to say better, I’m sure it’s a debate which will rubble on but I hope the public attitude improves regarding trans people that don’t pass as cis very well it’s very much marmite ATM and the media don’t help giving people like Joanne a voice every time the government do something to make our lives easier x a can be quite fiery and say things before I think, have a nice Friday Really appreciate that Mace. I'm genuinely interested in learning more about the issues for trans people, but I do have some concerns about self-ID. I'd like to be able to discuss those without being called bigoted. I've been called that on Twitter multiple times just for asking a question. "
I don't know if some people are listening to what JK is saying or just shouting her down as a bigot.
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"Also did they say no to you because you got the injury playing rugby? X Nope just a “we don’t fund that you’ve got to go private” I can’t run properly anymore and in pain daily. It’s been 12 years since I did it. What the fuck. Totally useless, have u tried to make that request again, maybe things have changed now? The effort it takes to even get an appointment to see the doctor, I’ve give up trying Seems every aspect of the NHS is struggling. I dunno much about the trans side of things. Are they struggling more? 30-80k is a lot of money. A fraction of that would have changed my life and I got told no. Every time I’m sick I get told to wait a few weeks for an appointment " The 30-80K is the private cost of transitioning as said, the NHS offers sex change (the genitals) and I guess the cross sex hormones therapy. Waiting time … 5 years at least. I know that in the US, they are able to have insurances that cover almost everything. Still is a huge money game. Which also raises the whole issue of, ideally, the earliest someone transitions, the least work they have to do later on in life (only sex reassignment). Take a kid before puberty, and testosterone didnt affect their body, and pump it with estrogen. Most likely it’s gonna turn out as close as possible to a peer cis female (obviously good genetics come into place too) I’m not saying that that’s the route we have to go through, but , I think parents should monitor closely and see of any indication if the kid could potentially have gender dysphoria , and treat it accordingly , at least with puberty blockers and lots of psychiatrist sessions | |||
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"Why should JK Rowling shut up? You may not like her views but That doesn't mean she shouldn't be allowed to express them and to be honest I think she is being scapegoated. She has raised some very valid concerns in the past that lots of people feel. I don't agree with everything she says however I do agree with her right to say it. " Free speech has been the victim of society’s double standards and dishonesty for as long as we’ve been able to communicate. There are many who would even censure the way we think let alone what views we make public. | |||
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"Also did they say no to you because you got the injury playing rugby? X Nope just a “we don’t fund that you’ve got to go private” I can’t run properly anymore and in pain daily. It’s been 12 years since I did it. What the fuck. Totally useless, have u tried to make that request again, maybe things have changed now? The effort it takes to even get an appointment to see the doctor, I’ve give up trying Seems every aspect of the NHS is struggling. I dunno much about the trans side of things. Are they struggling more? 30-80k is a lot of money. A fraction of that would have changed my life and I got told no. Every time I’m sick I get told to wait a few weeks for an appointment The 30-80K is the private cost of transitioning as said, the NHS offers sex change (the genitals) and I guess the cross sex hormones therapy. Waiting time … 5 years at least. I know that in the US, they are able to have insurances that cover almost everything. Still is a huge money game. Which also raises the whole issue of, ideally, the earliest someone transitions, the least work they have to do later on in life (only sex reassignment). Take a kid before puberty, and testosterone didnt affect their body, and pump it with estrogen. Most likely it’s gonna turn out as close as possible to a peer cis female (obviously good genetics come into place too) I’m not saying that that’s the route we have to go through, but , I think parents should monitor closely and see of any indication if the kid could potentially have gender dysphoria , and treat it accordingly , at least with puberty blockers and lots of psychiatrist sessions " I do sometimes wish I could opt out of paying towards the NHS and go private Health is wealth and I feel like the NHS is great if you break your leg in a car accident or whatever, but for other stuff its appalling and I’d like other options | |||
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"Also did they say no to you because you got the injury playing rugby? X Nope just a “we don’t fund that you’ve got to go private” I can’t run properly anymore and in pain daily. It’s been 12 years since I did it. What the fuck. Totally useless, have u tried to make that request again, maybe things have changed now? The effort it takes to even get an appointment to see the doctor, I’ve give up trying Seems every aspect of the NHS is struggling. I dunno much about the trans side of things. Are they struggling more? 30-80k is a lot of money. A fraction of that would have changed my life and I got told no. Every time I’m sick I get told to wait a few weeks for an appointment The 30-80K is the private cost of transitioning as said, the NHS offers sex change (the genitals) and I guess the cross sex hormones therapy. Waiting time … 5 years at least. I know that in the US, they are able to have insurances that cover almost everything. Still is a huge money game. Which also raises the whole issue of, ideally, the earliest someone transitions, the least work they have to do later on in life (only sex reassignment). Take a kid before puberty, and testosterone didnt affect their body, and pump it with estrogen. Most likely it’s gonna turn out as close as possible to a peer cis female (obviously good genetics come into place too) I’m not saying that that’s the route we have to go through, but , I think parents should monitor closely and see of any indication if the kid could potentially have gender dysphoria , and treat it accordingly , at least with puberty blockers and lots of psychiatrist sessions I do sometimes wish I could opt out of paying towards the NHS and go private Health is wealth and I feel like the NHS is great if you break your leg in a car accident or whatever, but for other stuff its appalling and I’d like other options " Well waiting a life time for an important operation (whatever it may be) literally doesn’t sound ideal. But as you said, great if you need something done with urgency but appealing for other stuff. There seems to have been a huge raise of people getting into private health insurance like bupa and so on | |||
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"“Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.” " you don’t have to dream it live it x | |||
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"I wanted to point out, that that’s the route that some trans women have to go through (and the money that needs to be spent in order to get to that point) to maybe not be questioned by people anymore, say to use something so basic like the womens toilet to go for a wee. Yes, cos that’s what the loos are for! so please have a degree of sympathy because, we are born like this, and have to literally forge ourselves in order to feel whole in a body that didn’t belong to us AND are just trying to live a normal, peaceful life . Just like any body else, really ""Something so basic like the woman's toilet", it's simple and basic to you because you want everyone to accept your lifestyle but these basic simple facilities are for women & it's their safespace. You demand acceptance but you cannot, at best we have a third WC facilities for men that identify as women or vice versa. This is the only answer as you will never receive the acceptance you demand from the majority. Much like the sport issues destroying women's weightlifting & swimming, it's perverse that for many years we have changed things for the betterment of women for this trans argument to set it all back for men with gender identity issues. I apologise if this upsets you but I am not in a minority and you can find a peaceful life if you accept there are some restrictions as you feel you do not quite fit the two genders that exist so you need to concede & not the other 70million. | |||
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"I wanted to point out, that that’s the route that some trans women have to go through (and the money that needs to be spent in order to get to that point) to maybe not be questioned by people anymore, say to use something so basic like the womens toilet to go for a wee. Yes, cos that’s what the loos are for! so please have a degree of sympathy because, we are born like this, and have to literally forge ourselves in order to feel whole in a body that didn’t belong to us AND are just trying to live a normal, peaceful life . Just like any body else, really
"Something so basic like the woman's toilet", it's simple and basic to you because you want everyone to accept your lifestyle but these basic simple facilities are for women & it's their safespace.
You demand acceptance but you cannot, at best we have a third WC facilities for men that identify as women or vice versa. This is the only answer as you will never receive the acceptance you demand from the majority.
Much like the sport issues destroying women's weightlifting & swimming, it's perverse that for many years we have changed things for the betterment of women for this trans argument to set it all back for men with gender identity issues.
I apologise if this upsets you but I am not in a minority and you can find a peaceful life if you accept there are some restrictions as you feel you do not quite fit the two genders that exist so you need to concede & not the other 70million.
"Wow! So glad I'm not in your majority! | |||
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"I wanted to point out, that that’s the route that some trans women have to go through (and the money that needs to be spent in order to get to that point) to maybe not be questioned by people anymore, say to use something so basic like the womens toilet to go for a wee. Yes, cos that’s what the loos are for! so please have a degree of sympathy because, we are born like this, and have to literally forge ourselves in order to feel whole in a body that didn’t belong to us AND are just trying to live a normal, peaceful life . Just like any body else, really
"Something so basic like the woman's toilet", it's simple and basic to you because you want everyone to accept your lifestyle but these basic simple facilities are for women & it's their safespace.
You demand acceptance but you cannot, at best we have a third WC facilities for men that identify as women or vice versa. This is the only answer as you will never receive the acceptance you demand from the majority.
Much like the sport issues destroying women's weightlifting & swimming, it's perverse that for many years we have changed things for the betterment of women for this trans argument to set it all back for men with gender identity issues.
I apologise if this upsets you but I am not in a minority and you can find a peaceful life if you accept there are some restrictions as you feel you do not quite fit the two genders that exist so you need to concede & not the other 70million.
"To be fair, I pass and blend in very easily so much so that none ever bats an eye lid. Well they would if I went in your toilet…. And yes I do fit one of the two genders, female
Literally you have NO IDEA what you are talking about … | |||
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"I wanted to point out, that that’s the route that some trans women have to go through (and the money that needs to be spent in order to get to that point) to maybe not be questioned by people anymore, say to use something so basic like the womens toilet to go for a wee. Yes, cos that’s what the loos are for! so please have a degree of sympathy because, we are born like this, and have to literally forge ourselves in order to feel whole in a body that didn’t belong to us AND are just trying to live a normal, peaceful life . Just like any body else, really
"Something so basic like the woman's toilet", it's simple and basic to you because you want everyone to accept your lifestyle but these basic simple facilities are for women & it's their safespace.
You demand acceptance but you cannot, at best we have a third WC facilities for men that identify as women or vice versa. This is the only answer as you will never receive the acceptance you demand from the majority.
Much like the sport issues destroying women's weightlifting & swimming, it's perverse that for many years we have changed things for the betterment of women for this trans argument to set it all back for men with gender identity issues.
I apologise if this upsets you but I am not in a minority and you can find a peaceful life if you accept there are some restrictions as you feel you do not quite fit the two genders that exist so you need to concede & not the other 70million.
Wow! So glad I'm not in your majority! "thank you x | |||
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"“You want everyone to accept your lifestyle” Fuck my life, being transsexual isn’t a lifestyle.. it isn’t something that is decided because for a lot of trans people, it’s either transitioning or death. I’m just living my life as any other woman , end of the story. What’s the life style that you are talking about? Also, I’ve gone through hell and back to just be myself and for you to talk about stuff that you have no idea about and judge me… honestly… it shows exactly the type person you are. " well said x you’re gorgeous inside and out x Some strange people think we go through HRT grow boobs lose a male sex drive just so we can creep around women’s toilets absolutely ridiculous and I do hope They become the minority of small minded (I could think of a word but I’m not gonna say it) like I said I could’ve worded the argument a little bit better I’m not being like a bulldozer but I appreciate the support from fellow women on this site it’s refreshing as I came over from the sister site where no such support existed x peace and love | |||
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"I wanted to point out, that that’s the route that some trans women have to go through (and the money that needs to be spent in order to get to that point) to maybe not be questioned by people anymore, say to use something so basic like the womens toilet to go for a wee. Yes, cos that’s what the loos are for! so please have a degree of sympathy because, we are born like this, and have to literally forge ourselves in order to feel whole in a body that didn’t belong to us AND are just trying to live a normal, peaceful life . Just like any body else, really
"Something so basic like the woman's toilet", it's simple and basic to you because you want everyone to accept your lifestyle but these basic simple facilities are for women & it's their safespace.
You demand acceptance but you cannot, at best we have a third WC facilities for men that identify as women or vice versa. This is the only answer as you will never receive the acceptance you demand from the majority.
Much like the sport issues destroying women's weightlifting & swimming, it's perverse that for many years we have changed things for the betterment of women for this trans argument to set it all back for men with gender identity issues.
I apologise if this upsets you but I am not in a minority and you can find a peaceful life if you accept there are some restrictions as you feel you do not quite fit the two genders that exist so you need to concede & not the other 70million.
To be fair, I pass and blend in very easily so much so that none ever bats an eye lid. Well they would if I went in your toilet….
And yes I do fit one of the two genders, female
Literally you have NO IDEA what you are talking about … "Female- in your opinion that is, I,ll leave you to keep pretending before the woke brigade ban me for giving a valid opinion which sadly is not acceptable to the wokey world you want but its not is it hence these constant battles & name calling of a view that is not your own. Be lucky. | |||
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"I wanted to point out, that that’s the route that some trans women have to go through (and the money that needs to be spent in order to get to that point) to maybe not be questioned by people anymore, say to use something so basic like the womens toilet to go for a wee. Yes, cos that’s what the loos are for! so please have a degree of sympathy because, we are born like this, and have to literally forge ourselves in order to feel whole in a body that didn’t belong to us AND are just trying to live a normal, peaceful life . Just like any body else, really
"Something so basic like the woman's toilet", it's simple and basic to you because you want everyone to accept your lifestyle but these basic simple facilities are for women & it's their safespace.
You demand acceptance but you cannot, at best we have a third WC facilities for men that identify as women or vice versa. This is the only answer as you will never receive the acceptance you demand from the majority.
Much like the sport issues destroying women's weightlifting & swimming, it's perverse that for many years we have changed things for the betterment of women for this trans argument to set it all back for men with gender identity issues.
I apologise if this upsets you but I am not in a minority and you can find a peaceful life if you accept there are some restrictions as you feel you do not quite fit the two genders that exist so you need to concede & not the other 70million.
To be fair, I pass and blend in very easily so much so that none ever bats an eye lid. Well they would if I went in your toilet….
And yes I do fit one of the two genders, female
Literally you have NO IDEA what you are talking about …
Female- in your opinion that is, I,ll leave you to keep pretending before the woke brigade ban me for giving a valid opinion which sadly is not acceptable to the wokey world you want but its not is it hence these constant battles & name calling of a view that is not your own.
Be lucky. "lol you’ve not seen her photos ? | |||
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"I wanted to point out, that that’s the route that some trans women have to go through (and the money that needs to be spent in order to get to that point) to maybe not be questioned by people anymore, say to use something so basic like the womens toilet to go for a wee. Yes, cos that’s what the loos are for! so please have a degree of sympathy because, we are born like this, and have to literally forge ourselves in order to feel whole in a body that didn’t belong to us AND are just trying to live a normal, peaceful life . Just like any body else, really
"Something so basic like the woman's toilet", it's simple and basic to you because you want everyone to accept your lifestyle but these basic simple facilities are for women & it's their safespace.
You demand acceptance but you cannot, at best we have a third WC facilities for men that identify as women or vice versa. This is the only answer as you will never receive the acceptance you demand from the majority.
Much like the sport issues destroying women's weightlifting & swimming, it's perverse that for many years we have changed things for the betterment of women for this trans argument to set it all back for men with gender identity issues.
I apologise if this upsets you but I am not in a minority and you can find a peaceful life if you accept there are some restrictions as you feel you do not quite fit the two genders that exist so you need to concede & not the other 70million.
To be fair, I pass and blend in very easily so much so that none ever bats an eye lid. Well they would if I went in your toilet….
And yes I do fit one of the two genders, female
Literally you have NO IDEA what you are talking about …
Female- in your opinion that is, I,ll leave you to keep pretending before the woke brigade ban me for giving a valid opinion which sadly is not acceptable to the wokey world you want but its not is it hence these constant battles & name calling of a view that is not your own.
Be lucky. "I dearly hope u don't have children/ grandchildren! | |||
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"Well this went down like a lead balloon I thought there’d be a few terfs with some Transphobic opinions to probe Is that a certificate to allow pretence? Guessing Terf is some acronym for right thinking people that don't play pretend mostly known as the majority but like cis the great pretenders want to give everyone an acronym. Peoples none excepting of others opinions is why you will never find a status quo on this as we all have a right to an opinion and your lack of intellect stops you seeing that. you talking to me ? As a trans woman I have a keen interested in trans rights in the uk the uk is one of the worst countries in the first world to be trans in, I agree the Scottish government should be focused on changing the outdated GIC system rather that the GRC which in the grand scheme of things don’t really matter " Seriously? UK Is one of the worst int he world? Worse than most of middle east? Most of Africa? Russia? China? | |||
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"I wanted to point out, that that’s the route that some trans women have to go through (and the money that needs to be spent in order to get to that point) to maybe not be questioned by people anymore, say to use something so basic like the womens toilet to go for a wee. Yes, cos that’s what the loos are for! so please have a degree of sympathy because, we are born like this, and have to literally forge ourselves in order to feel whole in a body that didn’t belong to us AND are just trying to live a normal, peaceful life . Just like any body else, really
"Something so basic like the woman's toilet", it's simple and basic to you because you want everyone to accept your lifestyle but these basic simple facilities are for women & it's their safespace.
You demand acceptance but you cannot, at best we have a third WC facilities for men that identify as women or vice versa. This is the only answer as you will never receive the acceptance you demand from the majority.
Much like the sport issues destroying women's weightlifting & swimming, it's perverse that for many years we have changed things for the betterment of women for this trans argument to set it all back for men with gender identity issues.
I apologise if this upsets you but I am not in a minority and you can find a peaceful life if you accept there are some restrictions as you feel you do not quite fit the two genders that exist so you need to concede & not the other 70million.
To be fair, I pass and blend in very easily so much so that none ever bats an eye lid. Well they would if I went in your toilet….
And yes I do fit one of the two genders, female
Literally you have NO IDEA what you are talking about …
Female- in your opinion that is, I,ll leave you to keep pretending before the woke brigade ban me for giving a valid opinion which sadly is not acceptable to the wokey world you want but its not is it hence these constant battles & name calling of a view that is not your own.
Be lucky. "Earlier you said "I apologise if this upsets you". That seems an empty statement now. When you are attacking the trans women on this thread with quite unnecessarily rude rhetoric. My impression is you're not seeing them as people. You're writing as if to a sea of blank activist faces. No humanity or attempt to understand their struggles at all.  | |||
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"Well this went down like a lead balloon I thought there’d be a few terfs with some Transphobic opinions to probe Is that a certificate to allow pretence? Guessing Terf is some acronym for right thinking people that don't play pretend mostly known as the majority but like cis the great pretenders want to give everyone an acronym. Peoples none excepting of others opinions is why you will never find a status quo on this as we all have a right to an opinion and your lack of intellect stops you seeing that. you talking to me ? As a trans woman I have a keen interested in trans rights in the uk the uk is one of the worst countries in the first world to be trans in, I agree the Scottish government should be focused on changing the outdated GIC system rather that the GRC which in the grand scheme of things don’t really matter Seriously? UK Is one of the worst int he world? Worse than most of middle east? Most of Africa? Russia? China? " I said the first world, and its awful ask any trans woman | |||
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"Well this went down like a lead balloon I thought there’d be a few terfs with some Transphobic opinions to probe Is that a certificate to allow pretence? Guessing Terf is some acronym for right thinking people that don't play pretend mostly known as the majority but like cis the great pretenders want to give everyone an acronym. Peoples none excepting of others opinions is why you will never find a status quo on this as we all have a right to an opinion and your lack of intellect stops you seeing that. you talking to me ? As a trans woman I have a keen interested in trans rights in the uk the uk is one of the worst countries in the first world to be trans in, I agree the Scottish government should be focused on changing the outdated GIC system rather that the GRC which in the grand scheme of things don’t really matter Seriously? UK Is one of the worst int he world? Worse than most of middle east? Most of Africa? Russia? China? I said the first world, and its awful ask any trans woman " Bigger fish to fry no I expect. | |||
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