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"Woodburners produce more small particle pollution than roads. Should we be reducing or ending their use, where possible? The small particles enter the blood stream and can end up in the brain, heart etc. It can be an issue, where people are exposed from neighbours burning. " I listened to something similar on Radio 4 (a few years back) about the trend to burn candles, incess and wood in properties and the associated health risks. And coupled to this they discussed that people are less likely to open windows around the house. I remember back in the day my mum would open all the windows in the house to air it out. However, I think that was because she cooked Indian food and it was the only way to reduce the smell (though the neighbours were always very complimentary to her). Who would have known at the time that she was also saving lives!  | |||
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"Until fairly recently in historic terms most people lived in houses with no proper chimney just a hole in the roof anyway. Life expectancy was much shorter of course but I think there comes a point where you need to look at the comparative general overall health of the population and take steps accordingly. " Yes. When I last looked (several years ago), there's one scientifically proven cause of crime levels reducing over decades - removing lead in products, particularly petrol. The neurological damage from paediatric exposure is shown to be criminogenic across populations. I'm not saying log fires make people commit crimes, but I think these sorts of gains are worth exploring and reinforcing. | |||
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"Until fairly recently in historic terms most people lived in houses with no proper chimney just a hole in the roof anyway. Life expectancy was much shorter of course but I think there comes a point where you need to look at the comparative general overall health of the population and take steps accordingly. Yes. When I last looked (several years ago), there's one scientifically proven cause of crime levels reducing over decades - removing lead in products, particularly petrol. The neurological damage from paediatric exposure is shown to be criminogenic across populations. I'm not saying log fires make people commit crimes, but I think these sorts of gains are worth exploring and reinforcing." Interesting  | |||
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"Woodburners produce more small particle pollution than roads. Should we be reducing or ending their use, where possible? The small particles enter the blood stream and can end up in the brain, heart etc. It can be an issue, where people are exposed from neighbours burning. " Why dont we cut down on cars and vehicles instead No you wont want to give those up so its blame other things instead. one thing with covid it showed how clear the air was with less transport on it. | |||
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"How are people to keep warm?" Layers | |||
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"Woodburners produce more small particle pollution than roads. Should we be reducing or ending their use, where possible? The small particles enter the blood stream and can end up in the brain, heart etc. It can be an issue, where people are exposed from neighbours burning. Why dont we cut down on cars and vehicles instead No you wont want to give those up so its blame other things instead. one thing with covid it showed how clear the air was with less transport on it." We've already made improvements in the pollution aspects of transportation (lead, as noted) and we can continue to do so. It's not a simple this or that problem. | |||
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"How are people to keep warm?" I don't know. But that was also my first thought. | |||
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"How are people to keep warm? Layers" They only do so much, grew up in a house without central heating and ended up on beta blockers because the effect it had on my circulation. | |||
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"Woodburners produce more small particle pollution than roads. Should we be reducing or ending their use, where possible? The small particles enter the blood stream and can end up in the brain, heart etc. It can be an issue, where people are exposed from neighbours burning. Why dont we cut down on cars and vehicles instead No you wont want to give those up so its blame other things instead. one thing with covid it showed how clear the air was with less transport on it. We've already made improvements in the pollution aspects of transportation (lead, as noted) and we can continue to do so. It's not a simple this or that problem." Think, correct me if I'm wrong swing. But didn't the smog clouds caused by traffic in Europe were very much reduce over the first lockdown? I don't think it's an elimination of one thing is going to work. It's progressive improvements and better technology that will improve things. | |||
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"Woodburners produce more small particle pollution than roads. Should we be reducing or ending their use, where possible? The small particles enter the blood stream and can end up in the brain, heart etc. It can be an issue, where people are exposed from neighbours burning. Why dont we cut down on cars and vehicles instead No you wont want to give those up so its blame other things instead. one thing with covid it showed how clear the air was with less transport on it. We've already made improvements in the pollution aspects of transportation (lead, as noted) and we can continue to do so. It's not a simple this or that problem." theres plenty more pollutants within exhausts Particulate matter (PM). One type of particulate matter is the soot seen in vehicle exhaust. ... Volatile Organic Compounds (VOCs). . Nitrogen oxides (NOx). ... Carbon monoxide (CO). ... Sulfur dioxide (SO2). ... Greenhouse gases. no point going around blaming wood stoves when uses wont give up other things | |||
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"How are people to keep warm?" Better insulation makes a huge difference, but Heat pump boilers are a lot more efficient and can more easily be driven by clean renewables. They also reduce our reliance upon imported gas. Wood burners feel like a bit of Victorian tech, but I do see the appeal of having a “real” fire. Personally, I think more effort should be put into tackling industrial pollution. Home pollution is easily tackled by laws and taxation, but it seems to j pact quality of life without really making much of a difference to the bigger picture. | |||
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"Woodburners produce more small particle pollution than roads. Should we be reducing or ending their use, where possible? The small particles enter the blood stream and can end up in the brain, heart etc. It can be an issue, where people are exposed from neighbours burning. Why dont we cut down on cars and vehicles instead No you wont want to give those up so its blame other things instead. one thing with covid it showed how clear the air was with less transport on it. We've already made improvements in the pollution aspects of transportation (lead, as noted) and we can continue to do so. It's not a simple this or that problem. Think, correct me if I'm wrong swing. But didn't the smog clouds caused by traffic in Europe were very much reduce over the first lockdown? I don't think it's an elimination of one thing is going to work. It's progressive improvements and better technology that will improve things. " Yes. I'm only opposing the car thing because it's "don't look at wood burners, look at cars". I do think we need to look at cars too. We're in agreement, I think - we need to look at all areas and see what we can improve. Without too much reduction in standard of living. | |||
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"Woodburners produce more small particle pollution than roads. Should we be reducing or ending their use, where possible? The small particles enter the blood stream and can end up in the brain, heart etc. It can be an issue, where people are exposed from neighbours burning. Why dont we cut down on cars and vehicles instead No you wont want to give those up so its blame other things instead. one thing with covid it showed how clear the air was with less transport on it. We've already made improvements in the pollution aspects of transportation (lead, as noted) and we can continue to do so. It's not a simple this or that problem. theres plenty more pollutants within exhausts Particulate matter (PM). One type of particulate matter is the soot seen in vehicle exhaust. ... Volatile Organic Compounds (VOCs). . Nitrogen oxides (NOx). ... Carbon monoxide (CO). ... Sulfur dioxide (SO2). ... Greenhouse gases. no point going around blaming wood stoves when uses wont give up other things " I don't even drive, so don't come after me 
I think we need to address all problems, and wood burners may be among them | |||
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"Nobody walk around my roof, I think they key isn’t to identify which produced the more harmful stuff, but which does it in areas that people use. Everyone has a car, basically, very few (in percentage terms) have a log burner and anyone that does has it vent above the house not next to it " Alot to do with wood stoves and burners is users bad usage of them. Im too warm with old units so shut it low and make it smokey up there chimney. Secondary air stops this with newer units. | |||
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"Nobody walk around my roof, I think they key isn’t to identify which produced the more harmful stuff, but which does it in areas that people use. Everyone has a car, basically, very few (in percentage terms) have a log burner and anyone that does has it vent above the house not next to it " Not everyone has a car  but they are definitely too many vehicles on the road. | |||
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"lNot everyone has a car but they are definitely too many vehicles on the road. "And they’re the wrong sort of car. Dumb governments incentivised the buying of diesels, and so now cities are full of them. They never get up to speed and so the DPFs get clogged up. They could do with another scrap page scheme from diesels to hybrids, electrics, and smaller, more efficient petrols. But buying a new car just now seems pretty dumb anyway. | |||
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"Woodburners produce more small particle pollution than roads. Should we be reducing or ending their use, where possible? The small particles enter the blood stream and can end up in the brain, heart etc. It can be an issue, where people are exposed from neighbours burning. Why dont we cut down on cars and vehicles instead No you wont want to give those up so its blame other things instead. one thing with covid it showed how clear the air was with less transport on it. We've already made improvements in the pollution aspects of transportation (lead, as noted) and we can continue to do so. It's not a simple this or that problem. Think, correct me if I'm wrong swing. But didn't the smog clouds caused by traffic in Europe were very much reduce over the first lockdown? I don't think it's an elimination of one thing is going to work. It's progressive improvements and better technology that will improve things. Yes. I'm only opposing the car thing because it's "don't look at wood burners, look at cars". I do think we need to look at cars too. We're in agreement, I think - we need to look at all areas and see what we can improve. Without too much reduction in standard of living. " I agree woodburners usage can be improved. Just at this moment in time in many rural communities where there are old houses and no mains gas mixed with an older population, that this could potentially end up with the elderly being hit hard. | |||
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"I know I might sound like an old fart!! But when we were growing up we had to have a fire going before we had hot water Mum would always tell us about leaving lights on etc Now if kids aren’t glued to the Xbox !!! They seem to feel like the end is nigh!!! Personally if I lived back in the countryside I’d have a log fire of some kind Save as much energy as can As for the environment?? China will continue to burn far more than we do!! N " I can't control what China do, but I can do my bit. | |||
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"Woodburners produce more small particle pollution than roads. Should we be reducing or ending their use, where possible? The small particles enter the blood stream and can end up in the brain, heart etc. It can be an issue, where people are exposed from neighbours burning. Why dont we cut down on cars and vehicles instead No you wont want to give those up so its blame other things instead. one thing with covid it showed how clear the air was with less transport on it. We've already made improvements in the pollution aspects of transportation (lead, as noted) and we can continue to do so. It's not a simple this or that problem. Think, correct me if I'm wrong swing. But didn't the smog clouds caused by traffic in Europe were very much reduce over the first lockdown? I don't think it's an elimination of one thing is going to work. It's progressive improvements and better technology that will improve things. Yes. I'm only opposing the car thing because it's "don't look at wood burners, look at cars". I do think we need to look at cars too. We're in agreement, I think - we need to look at all areas and see what we can improve. Without too much reduction in standard of living. I agree woodburners usage can be improved. Just at this moment in time in many rural communities where there are old houses and no mains gas mixed with an older population, that this could potentially end up with the elderly being hit hard. " For sure. My question "how can it be improved" absolutely starts with looking at the effects of making changes. (Well, it would if I had any power over anything, I'm just shooting the breeze online at the moment) | |||
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"I know I might sound like an old fart!! But when we were growing up we had to have a fire going before we had hot water Mum would always tell us about leaving lights on etc Now if kids aren’t glued to the Xbox !!! They seem to feel like the end is nigh!!! Personally if I lived back in the countryside I’d have a log fire of some kind Save as much energy as can As for the environment?? China will continue to burn far more than we do!! N I can't control what China do, but I can do my bit. " Every little bit counts! | |||
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"Yes wood burners can contribute, as can cars. One activity that’s not being tackled, is farmers burning…. everything. Often at night so you can’t see the black smoke from fertiliser bags, tyres etc. I remember viewing a house I was interested in buying. It had asbestos roofing in parts so I raised this with the farmer who was selling it. His response: Don’t worry, when you take it off give me a call, we have a hole for that!" Responsible waste disposal is yet another issue that we need to tackle. | |||
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"lNot everyone has a car but they are definitely too many vehicles on the road.
And they’re the wrong sort of car. Dumb governments incentivised the buying of diesels, and so now cities are full of them. They never get up to speed and so the DPFs get clogged up.
They could do with another scrap page scheme from diesels to hybrids, electrics, and smaller, more efficient petrols.
But buying a new car just now seems pretty dumb anyway. "With electric cars comes charging points which still aren't readily available in a lot of places. Not everyone is able to charge their car from home because of space etc | |||
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"Woodburners produce more small particle pollution than roads. Should we be reducing or ending their use, where possible? The small particles enter the blood stream and can end up in the brain, heart etc. It can be an issue, where people are exposed from neighbours burning. Why dont we cut down on cars and vehicles instead No you wont want to give those up so its blame other things instead. one thing with covid it showed how clear the air was with less transport on it. We've already made improvements in the pollution aspects of transportation (lead, as noted) and we can continue to do so. It's not a simple this or that problem. Think, correct me if I'm wrong swing. But didn't the smog clouds caused by traffic in Europe were very much reduce over the first lockdown? I don't think it's an elimination of one thing is going to work. It's progressive improvements and better technology that will improve things. Yes. I'm only opposing the car thing because it's "don't look at wood burners, look at cars". I do think we need to look at cars too. We're in agreement, I think - we need to look at all areas and see what we can improve. Without too much reduction in standard of living. I agree woodburners usage can be improved. Just at this moment in time in many rural communities where there are old houses and no mains gas mixed with an older population, that this could potentially end up with the elderly being hit hard. For sure. My question "how can it be improved" absolutely starts with looking at the effects of making changes. (Well, it would if I had any power over anything, I'm just shooting the breeze online at the moment)" I agree, know a lot of my friends are using local wood surgeons logs to reduce transport of their logs. Plus they are trees that are already being felled. One mate is now looking into the difference between kiln and seasoned wood. It's taking time to learn what is best long term | |||
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"With electric cars comes charging points which still aren't readily available in a lot of places. Not everyone is able to charge their car from home because of space etc" Yes, it’s a crap tech, which is why I also suggested hybrids and smaller more efficient petrols. There is no good solution and I don’t like putting heat and light on the same utility bill as personal transportation. | |||
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"How are people to keep warm? Better insulation makes a huge difference, but Heat pump boilers are a lot more efficient and can more easily be driven by clean renewables. They also reduce our reliance upon imported gas. Wood burners feel like a bit of Victorian tech, but I do see the appeal of having a “real” fire. Personally, I think more effort should be put into tackling industrial pollution. Home pollution is easily tackled by laws and taxation, but it seems to j pact quality of life without really making much of a difference to the bigger picture. " I agree that better insulation makes a big difference. We recently insulated the outside wall of one room, it cost us around £200 and we did the work ourselves. Luckily we had the knowledge and funds, so many people don't. The quality of life of people with low incomes is hugely affected by financial inducements when they're designed to make it unaffordable to continue with current methods of heating. Wood burners are great if you live in a rural area with no gas especially given the current cost of heating oil and electricity. | |||
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"I might regret posting this.... Is it the wood that creates the dangerous particles? Is it all woods? Can a more echo friendly burning material be put in them? " It’s the burning process itself. Short of burning briquettes of pure hydrogen it’s always going to be a problem. | |||
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"Frankly, yes. As well as other frivolous wastes of energy like hot tubs, patio heaters and the night time lighting of empty office blocks." | |||
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"With electric cars comes charging points which still aren't readily available in a lot of places. Not everyone is able to charge their car from home because of space etc Yes, it’s a crap tech, which is why I also suggested hybrids and smaller more efficient petrols. There is no good solution and I don’t like putting heat and light on the same utility bill as personal transportation. " Sorry, my comment was kind of half arsed. Getting distracted. I'm not sure what a good solution is either unfortunately they all have their downfalls. | |||
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"The reality of the situation is that we're running round sticking band aids on several gushing arteries and wondering which one to try and stem next. " | |||
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"I agree woodburners usage can be improved. Just at this moment in time in many rural communities where there are old houses and no mains gas mixed with an older population, that this could potentially end up with the elderly being hit hard. For sure. My question "how can it be improved" absolutely starts with looking at the effects of making changes. (Well, it would if I had any power over anything, I'm just shooting the breeze online at the moment) I agree, know a lot of my friends are using local wood surgeons logs to reduce transport of their logs. Plus they are trees that are already being felled. One mate is now looking into the difference between kiln and seasoned wood. It's taking time to learn what is best long term " I presume they dont want to change there wood stove and go through 3-4 cords of wood in heating. theres better stoves out there and give more heat output than some of the older stoves did. Dont get me wrong the old rayburn or the esse stoves are good systems | |||
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"I agree woodburners usage can be improved. Just at this moment in time in many rural communities where there are old houses and no mains gas mixed with an older population, that this could potentially end up with the elderly being hit hard. For sure. My question "how can it be improved" absolutely starts with looking at the effects of making changes. (Well, it would if I had any power over anything, I'm just shooting the breeze online at the moment) I agree, know a lot of my friends are using local wood surgeons logs to reduce transport of their logs. Plus they are trees that are already being felled. One mate is now looking into the difference between kiln and seasoned wood. It's taking time to learn what is best long term I presume they dont want to change there wood stove and go through 3-4 cords of wood in heating. theres better stoves out there and give more heat output than some of the older stoves did. Dont get me wrong the old rayburn or the esse stoves are good systems " My friends of similar age have and are. The elderly don't they don't want change and don't see the point if they're nearly at the pearly gates as they put it. | |||
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"My friends of similar age have and are. The elderly don't they don't want change and don't see the point if they're nearly at the pearly gates as they put it. " The problem with that attitude they neglect the right to clean air for other users. It can cost them 1 thousand pound. all it takes is a video or photo. | |||
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"How are people to keep warm? Better insulation makes a huge difference, but Heat pump boilers are a lot more efficient and can more easily be driven by clean renewables. They also reduce our reliance upon imported gas. Wood burners feel like a bit of Victorian tech, but I do see the appeal of having a “real” fire. Personally, I think more effort should be put into tackling industrial pollution. Home pollution is easily tackled by laws and taxation, but it seems to j pact quality of life without really making much of a difference to the bigger picture. I agree that better insulation makes a big difference. We recently insulated the outside wall of one room, it cost us around £200 and we did the work ourselves. Luckily we had the knowledge and funds, so many people don't. The quality of life of people with low incomes is hugely affected by financial inducements when they're designed to make it unaffordable to continue with current methods of heating. Wood burners are great if you live in a rural area with no gas especially given the current cost of heating oil and electricity. " Do you mind us asking how/what you used to do the external wall insulation? We could do with doing our entire house  | |||
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"Woodburners produce more small particle pollution than roads. Should we be reducing or ending their use, where possible? The small particles enter the blood stream and can end up in the brain, heart etc. It can be an issue, where people are exposed from neighbours burning. " Where have you got your figures from? It seems strange that such a small amount of production time such burners are producing can and be more than. The entire road networks yearly production. Even so heating our homes during winter might be seen as out weighing the waste caused by airconditioning, crusing flight the list goes on? | |||
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"How are people to keep warm? Better insulation makes a huge difference, but Heat pump boilers are a lot more efficient and can more easily be driven by clean renewables. They also reduce our reliance upon imported gas. Wood burners feel like a bit of Victorian tech, but I do see the appeal of having a “real” fire. Personally, I think more effort should be put into tackling industrial pollution. Home pollution is easily tackled by laws and taxation, but it seems to j pact quality of life without really making much of a difference to the bigger picture. I agree that better insulation makes a big difference. We recently insulated the outside wall of one room, it cost us around £200 and we did the work ourselves. Luckily we had the knowledge and funds, so many people don't. The quality of life of people with low incomes is hugely affected by financial inducements when they're designed to make it unaffordable to continue with current methods of heating. Wood burners are great if you live in a rural area with no gas especially given the current cost of heating oil and electricity. Do you mind us asking how/what you used to do the external wall insulation? We could do with doing our entire house "Not at all. When I say external wall I mean the wall that's facing the outside ifyswim. We did it from the inside, bought Kingspan insulation panels (they come in various sizes), fixed to the wall with a framework to fix plaster board to. It obviously reduces the size of the room and means decorating too. That's probably not what you had in mind . The room we did it in has no heating but is now noticeably warmer and holds heat for much longer if it's been warmed by the sun. | |||
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"Until fairly recently in historic terms most people lived in houses with no proper chimney just a hole in the roof anyway. Life expectancy was much shorter of course but I think there comes a point where you need to look at the comparative general overall health of the population and take steps accordingly. Yes. When I last looked (several years ago), there's one scientifically proven cause of crime levels reducing over decades - removing lead in products, particularly petrol. The neurological damage from paediatric exposure is shown to be criminogenic across populations. I'm not saying log fires make people commit crimes, but I think these sorts of gains are worth exploring and reinforcing." Those studies on lead poisoning are very interesting - not least because they seriously question the notion of responsibility. However, leaded petrol is less than a century old, I suspect that given humans (and their ancestors) have been controlling fire for over a million years (depending on who you believe) I suspect it is highly unlikely that it will turn out to be a neuro toxin like lead and other heavy metals. That said, I agree any such research is worthwhile. That long history with fire also likely explains the almost universal human interest in fire, the sale of flame effect electric fires, the fire screen savers etc etc. As others have said, there comes a time when we need to weigh benefits. Obviously, I can only speak for myself but given a choice of a life without open fires and an extra 6 months of dementia or a slightly reduced life expectancy but being allowed to enjoy the warming glow of a real fire indoors I would choose the latter. Mr | |||
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"Do you mind us asking how/what you used to do the external wall insulation? We could do with doing our entire house
Not at all. When I say external wall I mean the wall that's facing the outside ifyswim. We did it from the inside, bought Kingspan insulation panels (they come in various sizes), fixed to the wall with a framework to fix plaster board to. It obviously reduces the size of the room and means decorating too. That's probably not what you had in mind . The room we did it in has no heating but is now noticeably warmer and holds heat for much longer if it's been warmed by the sun. "But in doing so you also changed your due point in the wall. Theres not enough evidence for the moment of what damage that can do to old propertys. Might be a good thing and might be a bad thing and rot your inside wall. | |||
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"Do you mind us asking how/what you used to do the external wall insulation? We could do with doing our entire house
Not at all. When I say external wall I mean the wall that's facing the outside ifyswim. We did it from the inside, bought Kingspan insulation panels (they come in various sizes), fixed to the wall with a framework to fix plaster board to. It obviously reduces the size of the room and means decorating too. That's probably not what you had in mind . The room we did it in has no heating but is now noticeably warmer and holds heat for much longer if it's been warmed by the sun.
But in doing so you also changed your due point in the wall.
Theres not enough evidence for the moment of what damage that can do to old propertys.
Might be a good thing and might be a bad thing and rot your inside wall."Let's hope it's a good thing then | |||
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"Woodburners produce more small particle pollution than roads. Should we be reducing or ending their use, where possible? The small particles enter the blood stream and can end up in the brain, heart etc. It can be an issue, where people are exposed from neighbours burning. " If the wood is dried and seasoned correctly this is not the case. The higher pollution occurs when wet wood is burned. More people die from alcohol abuse than woodburner pollution should we ban alcohol? | |||
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"Do you mind us asking how/what you used to do the external wall insulation? We could do with doing our entire house
Not at all. When I say external wall I mean the wall that's facing the outside ifyswim. We did it from the inside, bought Kingspan insulation panels (they come in various sizes), fixed to the wall with a framework to fix plaster board to. It obviously reduces the size of the room and means decorating too. That's probably not what you had in mind . The room we did it in has no heating but is now noticeably warmer and holds heat for much longer if it's been warmed by the sun.
But in doing so you also changed your due point in the wall.
Theres not enough evidence for the moment of what damage that can do to old propertys.
Might be a good thing and might be a bad thing and rot your inside wall."Yeah I've been reading about it all. I have no idea what to do with our damp and draughty 1918 walls, in a former "Homes for Heroes" ex-local authority house  | |||
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" If the wood is dried and seasoned correctly this is not the case. The higher pollution occurs when wet wood is burned. " This seems like the most likely culprit. Fires have been used for millenia. Nowadays using a fire is a luxuary of sorts, so a lot of people wont feed a fire correctly. A lot of people have a mind set of just chuck anything that burns into the fire. This obviously cant work as we have some many chemicals in the world today. | |||
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" If the wood is dried and seasoned correctly this is not the case. The higher pollution occurs when wet wood is burned." Not true wood stoves can smoke due to users bad practice not allowing enough fresh air into the stove for complete combustion These type of stoves should be banned as secondary air types dont allow this to happen as the user can close the secondary air input. | |||
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"Been reading this thread with interest as I waved goodbye to a gas connection several years ago when they wanted to make a daily standing charge. I only used heating from November to March. I produce more wood from the garden than i know what to do with. I cut it up and dry it before giving it away to friends. I would be happy burning it to provide hot water and central heating on cold days and nights if I could find a device which burns cleanly. My redundant boiler is floor mounted in the kitchen with direct flue to chimney so disruption minimal." thats not your issue You either go down a costly wood boiler that really isnt economical. then you have to deal with house insurance. or you go down homemade and you wont get house insurance for it. The rocket stove is economical less wood usage but can burn up to 4-6hrs with just one log in it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygYI4upAFbU a rocket stove can be used as a boiler system then piped into a heat store. 2,600 Gallon Rocket Water Heater i dont like joined systems as if and when they fail they can be expensive to replace | |||
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Can't be worse than the latest trend in trashing the earth for batteries for electric cars  | |||
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"Woodburners produce more small particle pollution than roads. Should we be reducing or ending their use, where possible? The small particles enter the blood stream and can end up in the brain, heart etc. It can be an issue, where people are exposed from neighbours burning. Why dont we cut down on cars and vehicles instead No you wont want to give those up so its blame other things instead. one thing with covid it showed how clear the air was with less transport on it." | |||
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"As there's fields of plastic three times the size of France and it's flammable let's gather that up and burn it
Can't be worse than the latest trend in trashing the earth for batteries for electric cars "Those bloody french at it again.. | |||
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"As there's fields of plastic three times the size of France and it's flammable let's gather that up and burn it
Can't be worse than the latest trend in trashing the earth for batteries for electric cars "Composite insulation is non biodegradable Just as bad as plastic and theres no recycling that stuff as of yet for outside and inside wall composite 30 years or more. It will probably require a bit of TLC by this time, including painting every 10 years, but the insulation itself will not degrade. loft and floor insulation 100 years down the line. Floor insulation is made from the same material and there’s no reason why it won’t also last a very long time. | |||
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"As there's fields of plastic three times the size of France" Wow - I never realised plastic grew in fields 
And fields 3 times the size of France - that's big fields! | |||
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" If the wood is dried and seasoned correctly this is not the case. The higher pollution occurs when wet wood is burned. Not true wood stoves can smoke due to users bad practice not allowing enough fresh air into the stove for complete combustion These type of stoves should be banned as secondary air types dont allow this to happen as the user can close the secondary air input." Not true either my friend. I supply firewood and a good friend of mine supplies and fits burners. A correctly installed burner with kiln dried wood can be almost compleatly closed in from air without emmissions increasing. | |||
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"Personally I'm more concerned about all the chemicals used in the home some are obsessed with currently. They all give me a headache especially those unstoppable scent boosters. " I agree. Once we washed clothes using one chemical on a hot wash. Clean, bacteria free, stain free. Now we wash cold & as well as detergent we add laundry cleanser, vanish powder & stuff like the unstoppable product. All those extra things being flushed into the sea and extra plastic bottles made & disposed off & energy wasted making & shipping plus extra cost to buy. What idiot decided this was better than what went before? Like vacuums. Hi power, hoover the house fast in one go, job done. Now we recharge multiple times using shit cleaners on low power settings to stretch battery life & it takes ages. Utter lunacy & wastes more than it ever saved. | |||
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"Frankly, yes. As well as other frivolous wastes of energy like hot tubs, patio heaters and the night time lighting of empty office blocks." Why is a wood burner a frivolous waste of energy? The answer surely is to invent particle extraction technology? There are many parts of the country where gas is not available. Oil and electricity are very expensive and wood is at least sustainable. Should a landowner who can ‘grow’ their own fuel be prevented from doing so? Any fuel which produces smoke is far less desirable in densely populated areas of course, but an outright ban - that might be a bit OTT. | |||
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"Personally I'm more concerned about all the chemicals used in the home some are obsessed with currently. They all give me a headache especially those unstoppable scent boosters. I agree. Once we washed clothes using one chemical on a hot wash. Clean, bacteria free, stain free. Now we wash cold & as well as detergent we add laundry cleanser, vanish powder & stuff like the unstoppable product. All those extra things being flushed into the sea and extra plastic bottles made & disposed off & energy wasted making & shipping plus extra cost to buy. What idiot decided this was better than what went before? Like vacuums. Hi power, hoover the house fast in one go, job done. Now we recharge multiple times using shit cleaners on low power settings to stretch battery life & it takes ages. Utter lunacy & wastes more than it ever saved. " I agree, one step forward, five steps backwards. Why anyone who has mains electricity and buy’s appliances that have unnecessary batteries is beyond me. Pure waste. | |||
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"Been reading this thread with interest as I waved goodbye to a gas connection several years ago when they wanted to make a daily standing charge. I only used heating from November to March. I produce more wood from the garden than i know what to do with. I cut it up and dry it before giving it away to friends. I would be happy burning it to provide hot water and central heating on cold days and nights if I could find a device which burns cleanly. My redundant boiler is floor mounted in the kitchen with direct flue to chimney so disruption minimal. I was amused to read one supplier stating that as wood is carbon neutral it doesn't release any more CO2 by being burned than being left to rot. I haven't noticed any smoke or soot coming from my compost heap, however. Maybe I should use the compost heap(s) as a source for a heat pump system but I remain to be convinced that those systems give comparable heating results." Not looked into this for a few years. But have you looked at wood pellet systems and the like. They are used quite a bit in the Alps where they have LOTs of wood and also strict pollution rules. Maybe there sre options for dry pellet production from self grown timber and a suitable furnace? | |||
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"As there's fields of plastic three times the size of France and it's flammable let's gather that up and burn it
Can't be worse than the latest trend in trashing the earth for batteries for electric cars "Yep microplastics disrupting primary producers in marine food chain puts a few expensive log burners are waaay down the list. Those who put on another layer, just make sure it is wool not plastic  | |||
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"yes we should reduce wood burners and open fires, but if people have them i dont blame them for using them , the way energy prices are going, people need to keep warm, more needs to be done to keep electric and gas prices down first" I think more people will be reverting to open fires or log burners by next winter through sheer necessity. | |||
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"As there's fields of plastic three times the size of France and it's flammable let's gather that up and burn it
Can't be worse than the latest trend in trashing the earth for batteries for electric cars "Shhh no one wants to know that “green cars “ make more damage makeing batters than normal cars do Biggest con ever Big crops pushing the agenda and paying the governments so people will buy new cars as car sales slumped due to there been that meny second hand cars The dirty little secret Off zink mineing Cobalt mineing And poring 500 thousand letters off toxic waist straight in to the earth to make lithium isn’t talked about | |||
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"Also on the log burners and stuff As someone who knows a lot about this as Someone very close to me still has coal heating Witch will be outlawed in 2023 Now they being told they have to change to gas But here the kicker the government will not pay for it They expect a 87 year old woman who lives on her own To fork over 10k-15k to get a full gas centaur heating fited Just because the government say coal is outlawed If they want people to change maybe they should be fokeing over the money " Maybe she should try wood instead of coal. And tell the government to kiss her toasty warm ass… | |||
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"Also on the log burners and stuff As someone who knows a lot about this as Someone very close to me still has coal heating Witch will be outlawed in 2023 Now they being told they have to change to gas But here the kicker the government will not pay for it They expect a 87 year old woman who lives on her own To fork over 10k-15k to get a full gas centaur heating fited Just because the government say coal is outlawed If they want people to change maybe they should be fokeing over the money Maybe she should try wood instead of coal. And tell the government to kiss her toasty warm ass…" That’s what she’s doing the coal fire dose both but it’s still shocking that just because the government now say it’s outlawed people need to fork out off they own pocket to change | |||
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"Also on the log burners and stuff As someone who knows a lot about this as Someone very close to me still has coal heating Witch will be outlawed in 2023 Now they being told they have to change to gas But here the kicker the government will not pay for it They expect a 87 year old woman who lives on her own To fork over 10k-15k to get a full gas centaur heating fited Just because the government say coal is outlawed If they want people to change maybe they should be fokeing over the money Maybe she should try wood instead of coal. And tell the government to kiss her toasty warm ass… That’s what she’s doing the coal fire dose both but it’s still shocking that just because the government now say it’s outlawed people need to fork out off they own pocket to change" Agree, bet she won’t be able to buy coal by then even if she wanted. | |||
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"Probably gain more in terms of environmental impact by banning bitcoin and other crypto nonsense. The energy require to “mine”’and maintain the chain is insane! " Yip not uncommon to see a mine running round 5k watts a minute | |||
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"Also on the log burners and stuff As someone who knows a lot about this as Someone very close to me still has coal heating Witch will be outlawed in 2023 Now they being told they have to change to gas But here the kicker the government will not pay for it They expect a 87 year old woman who lives on her own To fork over 10k-15k to get a full gas centaur heating fited Just because the government say coal is outlawed If they want people to change maybe they should be fokeing over the money Maybe she should try wood instead of coal. And tell the government to kiss her toasty warm ass… That’s what she’s doing the coal fire dose both but it’s still shocking that just because the government now say it’s outlawed people need to fork out off they own pocket to change Agree, bet she won’t be able to buy coal by then even if she wanted." That’s how they doing it they baning the sale off coal witch is forcing people who still have coal fires And still get free coal from the miners pensions as a retirement gift | |||
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"Woodburners produce more small particle pollution than roads. Should we be reducing or ending their use, where possible? The small particles enter the blood stream and can end up in the brain, heart etc. It can be an issue, where people are exposed from neighbours burning. " This really pisses me off, so sorry for the rant. The government are more concerned about frigging log burner emissions than making it illegal to carry out dangerous modifications to diesel engine exhausts by smashing out the DPF filter for £400 to £1200. These filters are fitted to diesels and 100% guaranteed that every taxi, minibus, Hermes and home delivery drivers using diesels have had it done as DPF filters quickly block up on short journeys. It is illegal to drive a vehicle with the DPF defeated, but not illegal to do the work. There are 10's of 1000's of such vehicles on the road. It should be a fine of £25k per vehicle modified and up to 5 years in prison if caught. These vehicles are killing children, literally. I have written to my MP, the Environment minister, Health Security, Shadow Health Secretary, Shadow Environment minister, the BBC and the Green Party and never once had a response. It is prolific in all areas, especially towns and cities. If you follow a taxi or minibus beyond '07 plate and see a whiff of black smoke as it sets off, its been modified.. This is the bulk cause of Particulate Matter in Urban areas. Google DPF removal in your area so see how many garages, including MOT centres that offer it. | |||
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"Woodburners produce more small particle pollution than roads. Should we be reducing or ending their use, where possible? The small particles enter the blood stream and can end up in the brain, heart etc. It can be an issue, where people are exposed from neighbours burning. " Nope. I’ve got a wood burner and a wood burning Aga with a back boiler that does my central heating and a coil to heat the water tank. At £65 a ton I’m sorted for winter which is far more economical than current gas and electricity prices. I’ll stick with what I’ve got thanks as it’s perfect for my needs | |||
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"Given that we're subject daily to the traffic pollution that is inescapable and here on the coast the water authority continues to release raw sewage directly into the sea and waterways while telling us to keep our mouths closed when we swim I'd say of course but add it to the list. " This form of pollution is worse than just human effluent because nowadays the sewage discharge contains soluble drugs (legal and illegal) and chemicals. We are essentially medicating our rivers and oceans with harmful chemicals. | |||
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"Probably long term yes, but with energy prices at the moment I doubt it's feasible. Especially in rural areas where there is no mains gas. " According to reports, 95% of homes with log burners also have alternative sources of heating. | |||
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" If the wood is dried and seasoned correctly this is not the case. The higher pollution occurs when wet wood is burned. Not true wood stoves can smoke due to users bad practice not allowing enough fresh air into the stove for complete combustion These type of stoves should be banned as secondary air types dont allow this to happen as the user can close the secondary air input. Not true either my friend. I supply firewood and a good friend of mine supplies and fits burners. A correctly installed burner with kiln dried wood can be almost compleatly closed in from air without emmissions increasing. " You might supply firewood but you dont understand stoves. you cannot almost completly close fires any type thay have to have enough air for full combustion leaving them on tick over or so low in burn will cause smoke and clinkers up your chimney. a prime example is this video jump to 3.50 mins https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5RFCR6YpeE no proper bed of wood coals, no extra wood to aid in the lighting of the coal. 5.55 the fire is still smoking like hell all going up the chimney with bad smoke. then dumps the coal right on top making the fire smoke like hell( its the same with wood ) closing down the fire low because your too warm. will cause this something you cant see as yor sat inside not even taking a look at your chimney. First to be tested is the old, uncertified woodstove from a now defunct local manufacturer. With the spin draft closed to simulate an all-night burn, the unit belches a thick column of dense smoke that registers 93.6 percent opacity. As the heavy smoke falls, those in attendance get a clear picture of the difference between the "hint of alder smoke in the autumn air," and the dangerous, nasty stuff that leaves a few people hacking.? | |||
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"As a science teacher, I can confirm that for complete combustion of hydrocarbons, sufficient oxygen is required "And extreme heat.. Hence 'wood gas' burners, with secondary oxygen intake are best and intend making a few designs when weathers better to get the welder out. Rocket stove design or propane bottles, not decided yet. Hopefully, on a cold day, can chuck a few logs in, heat the tank and pump the hot water around the house later on. | |||
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"As a science teacher, I can confirm that for complete combustion of hydrocarbons, sufficient oxygen is required "As an avod TikTokFaceTuber who does not believe in Experts I call horseshit on this. This js just a ploy to get everyone to take a 2nd vent and let the government infiltrate our homes with additional fresh air. And who the fk believes the propaganda that that wood has hydrocarbons!!!! Everyone knows there are no dead dinosaurs in the first. Wood grows on trees ffs! No wonder schools are failing if this is the bullshit that they teach today | |||
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"As a science teacher, I can confirm that for complete combustion of hydrocarbons, sufficient oxygen is required
As an avod TikTokFaceTuber who does not believe in Experts I call horseshit on this. This js just a ploy to get everyone to take a 2nd vent and let the government infiltrate our homes with additional fresh air. And who the fk believes the propaganda that that wood has hydrocarbons!!!! Everyone knows there are no dead dinosaurs in the first. Wood grows on trees ffs! No wonder schools are failing if this is the bullshit that they teach today "Will you cry if I tell you that your wood/plant material has nitrogen, calcium, sulphur, phosphorus and a bunch of other stuff in it too?! | |||
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"As a science teacher, I can confirm that for complete combustion of hydrocarbons, sufficient oxygen is required
As an avod TikTokFaceTuber who does not believe in Experts I call horseshit on this. This js just a ploy to get everyone to take a 2nd vent and let the government infiltrate our homes with additional fresh air. And who the fk believes the propaganda that that wood has hydrocarbons!!!! Everyone knows there are no dead dinosaurs in the first. Wood grows on trees ffs! No wonder schools are failing if this is the bullshit that they teach today
Will you cry if I tell you that your wood/plant material has nitrogen, calcium, sulphur, phosphorus and a bunch of other stuff in it too?! "I won't cry. I'll get angry. Experts! Chemistry belongs in labs with coats and stuff. Wood is natural, it doesn't have any of that elementary thingumybobs! | |||
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"As a science teacher, I can confirm that for complete combustion of hydrocarbons, sufficient oxygen is required
As an avod TikTokFaceTuber who does not believe in Experts I call horseshit on this. This js just a ploy to get everyone to take a 2nd vent and let the government infiltrate our homes with additional fresh air. And who the fk believes the propaganda that that wood has hydrocarbons!!!! Everyone knows there are no dead dinosaurs in the first. Wood grows on trees ffs! No wonder schools are failing if this is the bullshit that they teach today
Will you cry if I tell you that your wood/plant material has nitrogen, calcium, sulphur, phosphorus and a bunch of other stuff in it too?! "That’s just scaremongering. Next you’ll be telling me it gives you 5G! | |||
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"As a science teacher, I can confirm that for complete combustion of hydrocarbons, sufficient oxygen is required
As an avod TikTokFaceTuber who does not believe in Experts I call horseshit on this. This js just a ploy to get everyone to take a 2nd vent and let the government infiltrate our homes with additional fresh air. And who the fk believes the propaganda that that wood has hydrocarbons!!!! Everyone knows there are no dead dinosaurs in the first. Wood grows on trees ffs! No wonder schools are failing if this is the bullshit that they teach today
Will you cry if I tell you that your wood/plant material has nitrogen, calcium, sulphur, phosphorus and a bunch of other stuff in it too?!
That’s just scaremongering. Next you’ll be telling me it gives you 5G! "I thought only doctorymudoodles could give you the 5G. That's what ParlerTube told me | |||
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"As a science teacher, I can confirm that for complete combustion of hydrocarbons, sufficient oxygen is required
And extreme heat..
Hence 'wood gas' burners, with secondary oxygen intake are best and intend making a few designs when weathers better to get the welder out.
Rocket stove design or propane bottles, not decided yet.
Hopefully, on a cold day, can chuck a few logs in, heat the tank and pump the hot water around the house later on."note orange red is ok but purple/blue is even hotter both use a fan to get the higher burn a rocket stove dosnt https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aw4EI9KJJJg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_S3H-sreRdI what I will tell you is get that primary air super hot, the cleaner burn you will get as the stove gassifies as shown on this post thats 1500f a stove has been rated over 2000f normal wood stoves or multi stoves do not hit these temperatures, but downdraft stoves do. | |||
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