FabSwingers.com forum: Please wear bright colours when cycling

By *ellhungvwe OP Man
over a year ago

Cheltenham

I almost just hit two cyclists. Early morning, murky dawn light. Country road. Slowed down because I could see a man walking his dog ahead wearing a bright reflective band. Never driving fast anyway.

Next thing I know two cyclists were right in front of me in the road - between me and the walker. Head to toe in black - bike, clothing, helmets. No lights. Didn’t see them at all against the dark hedgerows. If I hadn’t seen the walker ahead I dread to think what would could have been.

Please, for the love of god, cyclists: stop wearing black.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just like putting lightning stripes on I swear they think it makes them go faster or more aerodynamic.

With the new highway code rules for cyclists they definitely need to make sure they're visible.

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By *a LunaWoman
over a year ago

South Wales

"I almost just hit two cyclists. Early morning, murky dawn light. Country road. Slowed down because I could see a man walking his dog ahead wearing a bright reflective band. Never driving fast anyway.

Please, for the love of god, cyclists: stop wearing black."

I agree. Although really they should have had lights too.

Be safe Be Seen!

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By *ellhungvwe OP Man
over a year ago

Cheltenham

I don’t even mind the lack of lights in this instance. I am just pleading that cyclists make black unfashionable.

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By *ellhungvwe OP Man
over a year ago

Cheltenham

"Just like putting lightning stripes on I swear they think it makes them go faster or more aerodynamic.

With the new highway code rules for cyclists they definitely need to make sure they're visible. "

I don’t want to start a fight - I am just asking that people stop wearing black.

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By *annaBeStrongMan
over a year ago

wokingham

If there’s anything I’ve learnt from the past year in these forums

Why should cyclists have to do anything?

Why don’t cars stop hitting them?

Raise your drivers better

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's frightening isn't it, I've had the same, there are a couple of people around here riding with no lights. I pulled over and asked one where his lights were last week, the response 'it wasn't dark when I set out' just idiotic, people must think they are invincible.

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By *uckslut and MCouple
over a year ago

Poole

I was behind one the other day in the dark. Do they not have reflectors as standard on bikes any more? I looked and looked, couldnt see any. Again he was all in dark, no lights ect.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Simply bring in a law that cyclists have to wear a high viz vest or that their preferred Lycra has the high viz built in.

Anyone on a road in the dark should have to wear high viz be that a broken down car with the driver out and pedestrians where there is no path.

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By *ellhungvwe OP Man
over a year ago

Cheltenham

There is a lady who cycles around here who has the most amazingly reflective jacket. Lights up like an airport runway when your lights hit her and you can see her from miles off. It is brilliant.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

Cyclists or hobby bikers?

In my experience proper cyclists are very invested in not getting knocked off their expensive bikes and so take all the precautions possible, including reflective gear and lights etc.

Hobby bike riders and those just nipping down the roads take more risks.

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By *ellhungvwe OP Man
over a year ago

Cheltenham

"Cyclists or hobby bikers?

In my experience proper cyclists are very invested in not getting knocked off their expensive bikes and so take all the precautions possible, including reflective gear and lights etc.

Hobby bike riders and those just nipping down the roads take more risks. "

These were full on cyclists - it was in the middle of the Cotswolds so they were obviously out for the day.

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By *ellhungvwe OP Man
over a year ago

Cheltenham

"Cyclists or hobby bikers?

In my experience proper cyclists are very invested in not getting knocked off their expensive bikes and so take all the precautions possible, including reflective gear and lights etc.

Hobby bike riders and those just nipping down the roads take more risks.

These were full on cyclists - it was in the middle of the Cotswolds so they were obviously out for the day."

That said it doesn’t matter - I don’t want to hit anyone - so my plea still stands.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"Cyclists or hobby bikers?

In my experience proper cyclists are very invested in not getting knocked off their expensive bikes and so take all the precautions possible, including reflective gear and lights etc.

Hobby bike riders and those just nipping down the roads take more risks.

These were full on cyclists - it was in the middle of the Cotswolds so they were obviously out for the day.

That said it doesn’t matter - I don’t want to hit anyone - so my plea still stands."

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By *heOriginalLoisWoman
over a year ago

London

Having been the driver, who had to climb out of her car to be met with an unresponsive cyclist lying in the road, I wholeheartedly agree.

Dressed in black, no lights, no helmet. 10:30pm.

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By *ellhungvwe OP Man
over a year ago

Cheltenham

"Having been the driver, who had to climb out of her car to be met with an unresponsive cyclist lying in the road, I wholeheartedly agree.

Dressed in black, no lights, no helmet. 10:30pm.

I really feel for both of you in that situation. I hope they were ok.

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By *UGGYBEAR2015Man
over a year ago

BRIDPORT

"Cyclists or hobby bikers?

In my experience proper cyclists are very invested in not getting knocked off their expensive bikes and so take all the precautions possible, including reflective gear and lights etc.

Hobby bike riders and those just nipping down the roads take more risks. "

If you are riding a bike you are a cyclist.

The OP’s comment was aimed at cyclists

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm just a pedestrian now. But I am constantly looking about myself because a cyclist can come from any direction.

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By *ebjonnsonMan
over a year ago

Maldon

Please, for the love of god, cyclists: stop wearing black."

Were they kids?

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By *ellhungvwe OP Man
over a year ago

Cheltenham

"Cyclists or hobby bikers?

In my experience proper cyclists are very invested in not getting knocked off their expensive bikes and so take all the precautions possible, including reflective gear and lights etc.

Hobby bike riders and those just nipping down the roads take more risks.

If you are riding a bike you are a cyclist.

The OP’s comment was aimed at cyclists

To be fair my comment was mainly aimed at making sure I don’t kill someone. I am agnostic to who I don’t run over.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Totally agree. It's for their own safety after all so it shouldn't even need debating. Just put on some high-vis and lights.

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By *UGGYBEAR2015Man
over a year ago

BRIDPORT

"Cyclists or hobby bikers?

In my experience proper cyclists are very invested in not getting knocked off their expensive bikes and so take all the precautions possible, including reflective gear and lights etc.

Hobby bike riders and those just nipping down the roads take more risks.

If you are riding a bike you are a cyclist.

The OP’s comment was aimed at cyclists

To be fair my comment was mainly aimed at making sure I don’t kill someone. I am agnostic to who I don’t run over."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If there’s anything I’ve learnt from the past year in these forums

Why should cyclists have to do anything?

Why don’t cars stop hitting them?

Raise your drivers better "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Totally agree. It's for their own safety after all so it shouldn't even need debating. Just put on some high-vis and lights."

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By *ellhungvwe OP Man
over a year ago

Cheltenham

Please, for the love of god, cyclists: stop wearing black.

Were they kids? "

They were adults - man and woman - clearly out for a long day on the bike because it was a good few miles from anywhere.

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By *assagejMan
over a year ago

Bude

Daylight no lights , around lighting up time , dusk and after lights, for any road user .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There is a lady who cycles around here who has the most amazingly reflective jacket. Lights up like an airport runway when your lights hit her and you can see her from miles off. It is brilliant."

Is that one of the ones that doesn’t look like it’s reflective until lights hit it and it reflects bright white?

They’re amazing as they look like an ordinary jacket.

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By *ellhungvwe OP Man
over a year ago

Cheltenham

"Daylight no lights , around lighting up time , dusk and after lights, for any road user . "

I actually don’t mind the lack of lights - black clothing is hard to see at anytime of day. I would prefer brighter clothing over lights any time of the day.

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

Sometimes feel even if I had a light house on top of my head I would b invisible to some drivers! X

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By *ellhungvwe OP Man
over a year ago

Cheltenham

"Sometimes feel even if I had a light house on top of my head I would b invisible to some drivers! X"

I am not trying to start a car v bike argument. Just asking that black clothing be made unfashionable.

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

"Sometimes feel even if I had a light house on top of my head I would b invisible to some drivers! X

I am not trying to start a car v bike argument. Just asking that black clothing be made unfashionable."

Yes get what u saying! I do wear a bright coat and hi viz vest in sumer time ! X

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"Cyclists or hobby bikers?

In my experience proper cyclists are very invested in not getting knocked off their expensive bikes and so take all the precautions possible, including reflective gear and lights etc.

Hobby bike riders and those just nipping down the roads take more risks.

If you are riding a bike you are a cyclist.

The OP’s comment was aimed at cyclists

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By *xydadbodMan
over a year ago

Milton keynes

This is why I prefer running instead lol only hazard I have to worry about is smashing myself into a lamppost when running in the dark during these less light seasons lol

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"This is why I prefer running instead lol only hazard I have to worry about is smashing myself into a lamppost when running in the dark during these less light seasons lol"

Ahhhh round these parts even runners aren't safe as there's often no path to run on and people are stupid running on the wrong side of the road and sand issues with clothing/lights.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It’s all about lights, not clothing. You can see a black car just fine, even at night, but only if it’s lights are on.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There is a lady who cycles around here who has the most amazingly reflective jacket. Lights up like an airport runway when your lights hit her and you can see her from miles off. It is brilliant.

Is that one of the ones that doesn’t look like it’s reflective until lights hit it and it reflects bright white?

They’re amazing as they look like an ordinary jacket. "

Pro Viz ones, I have one they have thousands of tiny glass beads embedded in the material, amazing tech

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By *2000ManMan
over a year ago

Worthing

"I'm just a pedestrian now. But I am constantly looking about myself because a cyclist can come from any direction."

Specially in one-way roads. They can come from any direction....as one did the other day. The wrong way.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

I would add to this that anybody who is going to be in the road,been if it's just to cross it, at any time that visibility is poor would do well to make sure they're visible. Pedestrian, runner, cyclist... anybody. It's not about the superiority of any road user and all about not killing or seriously injuring anyone.

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By *ellhungvwe OP Man
over a year ago

Cheltenham

"It’s all about lights, not clothing. You can see a black car just fine, even at night, but only if it’s lights are on.

I fundamentally disagree. People in dark clothing are very hard to see on the road. Cars can be seen because the metal reflects some light - dark clothes reflect nothing.

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By *ellhungvwe OP Man
over a year ago

Cheltenham

"It’s all about lights, not clothing. You can see a black car just fine, even at night, but only if it’s lights are on.

I fundamentally disagree. People in dark clothing are very hard to see on the road. Cars can be seen because the metal reflects some light - dark clothes reflect nothing."

Having a light on your bike is key but they are often quite small and it doesn’t help in those circumstances where it is debatable as to whether the cyclist is obliged to have it on - such as dawn or twilight or, weirdly in strong sunlight in an avenue of trees where the contrast between light and dark is strong.

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By *ellhungvwe OP Man
over a year ago

Cheltenham

"I would add to this that anybody who is going to be in the road,been if it's just to cross it, at any time that visibility is poor would do well to make sure they're visible. Pedestrian, runner, cyclist... anybody. It's not about the superiority of any road user and all about not killing or seriously injuring anyone. "

100%. I only saw the cyclists because of the high vis worn by the walker.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not to forget the idiots in cars that think side lights are enough when there's poor visibility... or even no lights at all. There are those that just don't think in all groups.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

Not to forget the idiots in cars that think side lights are enough when there's poor visibility... or even no lights at all. There are those that just don't think in all groups. "

Yep.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It’s all about lights, not clothing. You can see a black car just fine, even at night, but only if it’s lights are on.

I fundamentally disagree. People in dark clothing are very hard to see on the road. Cars can be seen because the metal reflects some light - dark clothes reflect nothing."

If you have me a choice between a yellow jacket or some lights, and told me to ride around the Cotswolds at night, I’m picking the lights. Because it’s not just about being seen by a car, it’s about being able to see things yourself.

A decent rear light can be seen hundreds of metres away, especially if you have two or one flashes, and will be seen before you even know it’s a bike, much less what colour clothing the rider has on.

Can’t disagree that black is hard to see, but lights add more visibility by generating it, that any clothing could by reflecting it.

Cyclists viewpoint, obviously.

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By *awtybikerMan
over a year ago

Barnoldswick

Hi-viz is only good in low light not in darkness. In darkness you need lights and reflectors/reflective material.

Lights are obviously very useful to be seen, but small lights however bright aren’t always easy to see from a distance. So by the time someone has seen your light they might be nearly on top of you.

These are observations are from driving on unlit roads near me, and often being surprised by the sudden appearance of a cyclist in front of me.

And as someone who cycles and rides a motorbike I like to think I’m pretty observant whatever I’m driving or riding.

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By *otSoPoshWoman
over a year ago

In a ball gown because that's how we roll in N. Devon

Is it really too sensible to just say..... if you want to cut down your chances of having an accident, of being injured and possibly dying, make sure you can be seen when you're on the road. And anything that helps you be seen is a winner.

I don't care if you're cycling, walking, driving, riding a horse, crawling or hopping on a space hopper. You wazz some reflectors, lights and maybe loud music on and you stand more chance of making it to your destination.

So please. Be safe. Be seen.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"Is it really too sensible to just say..... if you want to cut down your chances of having an accident, of being injured and possibly dying, make sure you can be seen when you're on the road. And anything that helps you be seen is a winner.

So please. Be safe. Be seen."

Exactly! I can't see that there's anything to argue about.

Make sure people can see you. Also if you're walking your dog and it has a habit of walking in the road make sur it can be seen too and don't push your pram or push chair out first either, they never have lights on.

It's common sense really

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By *awtybikerMan
over a year ago

Barnoldswick

Sadly there’s a lot of common sense missing in the world nowadays.

But yes I fully agree, if only…

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By *otSoPoshWoman
over a year ago

In a ball gown because that's how we roll in N. Devon

So please. Be safe. Be seen.

Exactly! I can't see that there's anything to argue about.

It's common sense really"

Oh God yes! Dogs and children should be kept pavement or verge side!

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By *ellhungvwe OP Man
over a year ago

Cheltenham

"It’s all about lights, not clothing. You can see a black car just fine, even at night, but only if it’s lights are on.

I fundamentally disagree. People in dark clothing are very hard to see on the road. Cars can be seen because the metal reflects some light - dark clothes reflect nothing.

Can’t disagree that black is hard to see, but lights add more visibility by generating it, that any clothing could by reflecting it.

Cyclists viewpoint, obviously. "

I have to say that I don’t think I have ever seen a light that can be seen from hundreds of metres away. No doubt they exist but they are rarely used?

My point is not about lights - I didn’t see the cyclists this morning but I did see a man walking who was much further away. There is something fundamentally wrong in that situation. That is my point.

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By *xydadbodMan
over a year ago

Milton keynes

"This is why I prefer running instead lol only hazard I have to worry about is smashing myself into a lamppost when running in the dark during these less light seasons lol

Ahhhh round these parts even runners aren't safe as there's often no path to run on and people are stupid running on the wrong side of the road and sand issues with clothing/lights. "

I'm quite lucky then.. there is quite a few selection of lakes amd Park round me to steer clear of roads when I run.. downside, less street lights so kinda a catch 22 but injuries from being knocked down by a car would be more severe though

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By *awtybikerMan
over a year ago

Barnoldswick

I’ve taken to mountain biking off road more nowadays, less traffic to worry about etc

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There is indeed, and light could have solved it. This is a really good read, indicating lots of things we haven’t brought up ourselves in this thread, how fluorescents are useless at night, how the brain process visual information and is tuned to see biological movement (walking not a bike), how even the most reflective jacket ever might not register quickly enough as it’s static (only legs really move when cycling) etc

https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/g20017365/the-science-of-being-seen-a-guide-to-safer-riding/

Worth a read.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The recent Highway Code changes which appear to place the onus on motor vehicles has given the impression that the cyclist has to do nothing its all down to the vehicle driver.

I wonder how many cyclists actually know and follow the Highway Code rules for cycling?

Recreational cycling is to be encouraged but maybe reign in the sports cyclists who use public roads as trading ground. Your not allowed to use the public road as training ground for car racing.

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By *ellhungvwe OP Man
over a year ago

Cheltenham

https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/g20017365/the-science-of-being-seen-a-guide-to-safer-riding/

Worth a read.

Good read. I think this kind of makes my starting point about not wearing black

I do agree with the point about moving body elements. I saw a cyclist yesterday wearing bright green/orange cycle boots. He looked different but I could see him a mile off.

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By *ellhungvwe OP Man
over a year ago

Cheltenham

"The recent Highway Code changes which appear to place the onus on motor vehicles has given the impression that the cyclist has to do nothing its all down to the vehicle driver.

I wonder how many cyclists actually know and follow the Highway Code rules for cycling?

Recreational cycling is to be encouraged but maybe reign in the sports cyclists who use public roads as trading ground. Your not allowed to use the public road as training ground for car racing."

The new highway code does actually tell cyclists to make themselves visible and not wear dark clothes.

“Rule 59

Clothing. You should avoid clothes that may get tangled in the chain, or in a wheel or may obscure your lights when you are cycling.

Light-coloured or fluorescent clothing can help other road users to see you in daylight and poor light, while reflective clothing and/or accessories (belt, arm or ankle bands) can increase your visibility in the dark.”

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/g20017365/the-science-of-being-seen-a-guide-to-safer-riding/

Worth a read.

Good read. I think this kind of makes my starting point about not wearing black

I do agree with the point about moving body elements. I saw a cyclist yesterday wearing bright green/orange cycle boots. He looked different but I could see him a mile off."

I think we can all agree wearing black at night with no lights is dumb.

I want some of the reflective coating to put on some spokes too, although tbh if I’m riding at night I’d be on the bike that has Dynamo lights which are permanently on. At the end of the day it’s education on both parts. Drivers need to be aware, speed appropriate, not distracted etc, cyclists need to know a yellow over jacket and set of 29 lumen £4 lights won’t cut it.

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By *ervent_fervourMan
over a year ago

Halifax

Please, for the love of god, cyclists: stop wearing black."

Agreed. I always do. Even my panniers are flourescent yellow.

Can i also requeat that all motorists turn on their headlights as soon as the natural light starts to dim. Pre twilight. About twenty percent don't and it's kinda scary when you dont spit someone when pulling ourlt of a junction until the last minute.

If you're unsure (dont get why you wouldn't.. But anyway..) then take the lead from buses:they almost always have their lights on at the merest hint of twilight onwards.

DON'T go by streetlamps being turned on/off. Even police cars can be pretty crap as a guide too.

Ta.

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By *ealthy_and_HungMan
over a year ago

Princes Risborough, Luasanne, Alderney

perhaps fab could rivive random public information films from the seventies at the start of each thread to remind people of everyday dangers ... such as this classic ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7EBhHmELNc

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By *ellhungvwe OP Man
over a year ago

Cheltenham

Good read. I think this kind of makes my starting point about not wearing black

I do agree with the point about moving body elements. I saw a cyclist yesterday wearing bright green/orange cycle boots. He looked different but I could see him a mile off.

I think we can all agree wearing black at night with no lights is dumb.

I am curious why bikes are not being built that have reflective rear frames or pedals that are all reflective? Making the bike and it’s moving parts more visible seems like an easy win to me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The recent Highway Code changes which appear to place the onus on motor vehicles has given the impression that the cyclist has to do nothing its all down to the vehicle driver.

I wonder how many cyclists actually know and follow the Highway Code rules for cycling?

Recreational cycling is to be encouraged but maybe reign in the sports cyclists who use public roads as trading ground. Your not allowed to use the public road as training ground for car racing."

The changes do not absolve cyclists of a duty to look after themselves and not be a menace to other road users, they simple made minor changes about passing widths and making it clear it’s ok to ride in the middle when required (as opposed to previous confusing language about taking position etc).

I would say as many cyclists follow the rules as drivers. Most cyclists are drivers. Particularly ones who doing it as a hobby not a lifestyle choice of non motoring. Many of these sports cyclists may well have driven with bike in car to meet other riders.

Being tribal about it helps no one. I’ve 3 cars, a motorbike and 9 cycles. What am I?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Daylight no lights , around lighting up time , dusk and after lights, for any road user .

I actually don’t mind the lack of lights - black clothing is hard to see at anytime of day. I would prefer brighter clothing over lights any time of the day."

Lights can be difficult to see aswell sometimes.

https://www.visordown.com/news/general/can-you-see-it-governments-illuminating-new-bike-safety-poster

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By *ellhungvwe OP Man
over a year ago

Cheltenham

Being tribal about it helps no one. I’ve 3 cars, a motorbike and 9 cycles. What am I?"

Confused?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The recent Highway Code changes which appear to place the onus on motor vehicles has given the impression that the cyclist has to do nothing its all down to the vehicle driver.

I wonder how many cyclists actually know and follow the Highway Code rules for cycling?

Recreational cycling is to be encouraged but maybe reign in the sports cyclists who use public roads as trading ground. Your not allowed to use the public road as training ground for car racing.

Being tribal about it helps no one. I’ve 3 cars, a motorbike and 9 cycles. What am I?"

Well off...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Please, for the love of god, cyclists: stop wearing black.

Agreed. I always do. Even my panniers are flourescent yellow.

If you're unsure (dont get why you wouldn't.. But anyway..) then take the lead from buses:they almost always have their lights on at the merest hint of twilight onwards.

DON'T go by streetlamps being turned on/off. Even police cars can be pretty crap as a guide too.

Ta.

Fluorescent materials are about twice as reflective as non fluorescent in daylight. They need EV from the Sun to do this. Headlights don’t emit EV, and thus fluorescents might as not be at night. At night you need reflective. Your panniers are probably both, but it’s not safe to assume fluorescence is a silver bullet

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By *heOriginalLoisWoman
over a year ago

London

"Having been the driver, who had to climb out of her car to be met with an unresponsive cyclist lying in the road, I wholeheartedly agree.

Dressed in black, no lights, no helmet. 10:30pm.

I really feel for both of you in that situation. I hope they were ok."

To be honest I was never told the outcome. I was questioned at length at the scene by the Police. Vilified by a Paramedic for having the audacity to hit someone.

Some six months later I finally was told I would not be prosecuted.

Incidentally, it turned out that she hit me not vice versa. Had she had lights on when she crossed where she did, jumping lights in the process I might have seen her to speed up.

So it isn't a cycle bash comment.

Lights on anyone using the roads, is essential. I even have them on my mum's wheelchair so we are seen at night.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am curious why bikes are not being built that have reflective rear frames or pedals that are all reflective? Making the bike and it’s moving parts more visible seems like an easy win to me."

Any bike from eg Halfords will have pedals with reflectors. And spoke reflectors etc, that’s law. But it’s not law to have pedals when you sell a bike, and most bikes (rather than bike shaped objects from Halfords) are sold without pedals so you can choose the ones that match your cycling shoes cleat system. These are so small that you never see the pedal until your foot is no longer on it.

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By *ellhungvwe OP Man
over a year ago

Cheltenham

I am curious why bikes are not being built that have reflective rear frames or pedals that are all reflective? Making the bike and it’s moving parts more visible seems like an easy win to me.

Ok - what about reflective undersoles of the boots?

I feel there must be quite a few things like that that can add to overall visibility. If things like that are not on the market then maybe there is an opportunity?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am curious why bikes are not being built that have reflective rear frames or pedals that are all reflective? Making the bike and it’s moving parts more visible seems like an easy win to me.

Ok - what about reflective undersoles of the boots?

I feel there must be quite a few things like that that can add to overall visibility. If things like that are not on the market then maybe there is an opportunity?"

Absolutely, I was just explaining about pedals for clarity, I don’t disagree.

Frankly the easiest thing would be to just spray bikes and shoes with the reflective coating that doesn’t chance the colour of what’s underneath. Then you can have a black bike that lights up like a Christmas tree in headlights.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As occasional to keen cyclists we never understand why people don't want to be seen.

Our bikes have legally mandated pedal reflectors and rear reflector (yes, even the road bike), we both use Garmin Varia radar lights (these will flash very quickly if you drive up behind us fast and make a bing bong sound on our phone or cycle computer) and all of our gear is reflective in some manner (even the black stuff has reflective strips built in). K's bike also came from the factory with reflective paint on the frame.

Yet, despite all this (and me wearing a pro vis jacket and pro vis bag when commuting) some drivers still totally fail to see you until the last minute, figure this is as so many of them are using their phone. At least if one hit me and tried the "sorry I didn't see you" they won't have a leg to stand on.

Also, if you're a driver who uses your phone when driving then please stop and please just slow down and overtake sensibly instead of trying to get "ahead".

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By *ervent_fervourMan
over a year ago

Halifax

Please, for the love of god, cyclists: stop wearing black.

Agreed. I always do. Even my panniers are flourescent yellow.

If you're unsure (dont get why you wouldn't.. But anyway..) then take the lead from buses:they almost always have their lights on at the merest hint of twilight onwards.

DON'T go by streetlamps being turned on/off. Even police cars can be pretty crap as a guide too.

Ta.

I'm not! Merely voicing that they're better than nkt usinng fluo materials!

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By *ealthy_and_HungMan
over a year ago

Princes Risborough, Luasanne, Alderney

as a cyclist myself, i feel entitled to say that using reflective materials on either yourself or your bicycle is a choice. one either chooses to be seen or not to be seen. in the same way as a cyclist either chooses to obey the recomendations in the highway code or chooses not to obey them. i value my safety so i make sure that i have the highest chance of being seen.

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By *ellhungvwe OP Man
over a year ago

Cheltenham

I am curious why bikes are not being built that have reflective rear frames or pedals that are all reflective? Making the bike and it’s moving parts more visible seems like an easy win to me.

Ok - what about reflective undersoles of the boots?

I feel there must be quite a few things like that that can add to overall visibility. If things like that are not on the market then maybe there is an opportunity?

Absolutely, I was just explaining about pedals for clarity, I don’t disagree.

That is literally all I want as a driver

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm not! Merely voicing that they're better than nkt usinng fluo materials!

I know, I was adding that info for everyone’s benefit not criticising your post …

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By *iman2100Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Just like putting lightning stripes on I swear they think it makes them go faster or more aerodynamic.

With the new highway code rules for cyclists they definitely need to make sure they're visible. "

If they were a car they would need lights.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"This is why I prefer running instead lol only hazard I have to worry about is smashing myself into a lamppost when running in the dark during these less light seasons lol

Ahhhh round these parts even runners aren't safe as there's often no path to run on and people are stupid running on the wrong side of the road and sand issues with clothing/lights. "

What do you mean by the wrong side of the road?

OP, good point. Someone mentioned the pro -vis type jackets and they are fantastic at night but do nothing in the day or even dim light unless the cars have their lights on as they only reflect light not generate it. I think a mix is best, lights on day or night, a bright top/trousers and at night, something reflective.

It can be hard to see people and yes, cyclists, walkers, horseriders etc can all make themselves less vulnerable by choosing clothes that help. That said, it isn't their responsibility to be seen, assuming they're following the highway code it's a drivers responsibility to pay attention. Those cyclists in dark clothes could just as easily have been a child in a dark school uniform ....

Thic- your comment deserves special attention

I mean imagine suggesting that a different choice of clothing could help reduce the risk of something bad happening

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By *ellhungvwe OP Man
over a year ago

Cheltenham

That said, it isn't their responsibility to be seen, assuming they're following the highway code it's a drivers responsibility to pay attention. Those cyclists in dark clothes could just as easily have been a child in a dark school uniform ....

Mr"

It is their responsibility under Rule 59 of the Highway Code - which I have cited above.

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By *aughty but nice...Man
over a year ago

Staffs

The conscience cyclist are very safety orientated however I've noticed a new more dangerous trend one where there on a cycle that is either electric powered or has a retro fitted petrol engine

They move around on paths and roads with no helmet or hi Viz I mean wtf ... accident waiting to happen

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"This is why I prefer running instead lol only hazard I have to worry about is smashing myself into a lamppost when running in the dark during these less light seasons lol

Ahhhh round these parts even runners aren't safe as there's often no path to run on and people are stupid running on the wrong side of the road and sand issues with clothing/lights.

Ah yes and the redways aka cycle race tracks

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By *avie65Man
over a year ago

In the west.

I've just bought a bike after many years on not having one. I have some bright clothing to wear, but I do like bright colours.

I will mainly be in cycle tracks as the roads are far too busy. Luckily there are a few near me.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"This is why I prefer running instead lol only hazard I have to worry about is smashing myself into a lamppost when running in the dark during these less light seasons lol

Ahhhh round these parts even runners aren't safe as there's often no path to run on and people are stupid running on the wrong side of the road and sand issues with clothing/lights.

What do you mean by the wrong side of the road?

Mr"

The side they shouldn't be on. Its in the highway code and everything

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

The streets around mine are quite dark and there was a guy cycling at night wearing all black with no lights or reflectors. Scared the crap out of me.

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

I've just bought a bike after many years on not having one. I have some bright clothing to wear, but I do like bright colours.

I will mainly be in cycle tracks as the roads are far too busy. Luckily there are a few near me. "

Have fun! I find country lanes are OK! Have been cycling more or less every day since childhood and I'm 65 this year! Not had any mishaps as yet! Some close calls when drivers not paying attention I obey the highway code don't skip lights etc., happy cycling x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"This is why I prefer running instead lol only hazard I have to worry about is smashing myself into a lamppost when running in the dark during these less light seasons lol

Ahhhh round these parts even runners aren't safe as there's often no path to run on and people are stupid running on the wrong side of the road and sand issues with clothing/lights.

What do you mean by the wrong side of the road?

The side they shouldn't be on. Its in the highway code and everything

In the interests of not speaking in coding and patting ourselves on the back due our knowledge, why not spell it out?

I think it’s the o opposite to normal if you are a pedestrian and there is no pavement, so that you see oncoming vehicles and can dive in a hedge, but this may be received wisdom and not the code…?

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

Not to forget the idiots in cars that think side lights are enough when there's poor visibility... or even no lights at all. There are those that just don't think in all groups. "

This is so true. People on the motorway in heavy rain in light coloured cars without the lights on. You can barely see them, it's scary.

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By *avie65Man
over a year ago

In the west.

I've just bought a bike after many years on not having one. I have some bright clothing to wear, but I do like bright colours.

I will mainly be in cycle tracks as the roads are far too busy. Luckily there are a few near me.

Thank you. I will need to get a cycle rack so I can go further afield during the summer.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is their responsibility under Rule 59 of the Highway Code - which I have cited above."

Role 59 says

Light-coloured or fluorescent clothing CAN help other road users to see you in daylight and poor light, while reflective clothing and/or accessories (belt, arm or ankle bands) CAN increase your visibility in the dark.

Emphasis is mine. They are not required to wear anything. Rule 144 for drivers "you MUST NOT drive without due care and attention"

I absolutely agree wearing bright clothes is sensible and likely to reduce risk but the HC is clear on whose responsibility it is not to hit other road users.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"It’s all about lights, not clothing. You can see a black car just fine, even at night, but only if it’s lights are on.

I fundamentally disagree. People in dark clothing are very hard to see on the road. Cars can be seen because the metal reflects some light - dark clothes reflect nothing.

Can’t disagree that black is hard to see, but lights add more visibility by generating it, that any clothing could by reflecting it.

Cyclists viewpoint, obviously. "

I love those flashing ones as it definitely catches your attention. You often can't see it's a cyclist until you're pretty close but at least you know you're approaching something. They have flashing lights on the side of skips in the street for the same reason.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"This is why I prefer running instead lol only hazard I have to worry about is smashing myself into a lamppost when running in the dark during these less light seasons lol

Ahhhh round these parts even runners aren't safe as there's often no path to run on and people are stupid running on the wrong side of the road and sand issues with clothing/lights.

What do you mean by the wrong side of the road?

The side they shouldn't be on. Its in the highway code and everything

Fair enough. We experience many drivers while out running who seem totally unaware of which side of the road pedestrians should be on.

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

I've just bought a bike after many years on not having one. I have some bright clothing to wear, but I do like bright colours.

I will mainly be in cycle tracks as the roads are far too busy. Luckily there are a few near me.

Thank you. I will need to get a cycle rack so I can go further afield during the summer. "

I use backpack whilst out on pleasure rides have 2 bikes the other one is for work has baskets front and back so I can get shopping x

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By *ealthy_and_HungMan
over a year ago

Princes Risborough, Luasanne, Alderney

rule 68 is mandatory and bullet point 3 has broad meaning especially when concerning the encountering of pedestrians, horses, disabled vehicles etc as a cyclist(Law RTA 1988 sects 24, 26, 28, 29 & 30 as amended by RTA 1991)

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

It is their responsibility under Rule 59 of the Highway Code - which I have cited above.

Role 59 says

Emphasis is mine. They are not required to wear anything. Rule 144 for drivers "you MUST NOT drive without due care and attention"

I absolutely agree wearing bright clothes is sensible and likely to reduce risk but the HC is clear on whose responsibility it is not to hit other road users.

Mr"

I do know of someone though who wasn’t prosecuted when they killed a cyclist who was on a country road at night in dark clothing and no lights or reflectors. She was traumatised though, she thought she hit a deer apparently. Carried on home and called it into the police because she didn't know if she was supposed to report that and the police found the person in the ditch next to the road.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is their responsibility under Rule 59 of the Highway Code - which I have cited above.

Role 59 says

Emphasis is mine. They are not required to wear anything. Rule 144 for drivers "you MUST NOT drive without due care and attention"

I absolutely agree wearing bright clothes is sensible and likely to reduce risk but the HC is clear on whose responsibility it is not to hit other road users.

That is because they broke the highway code, nothing to do with their clothing, they didn't have lights or reflectors at night. There is nothing there that tells a cyclist what they MUST wear. However they MUST follow this

At night your cycle MUST have white front and red rear lights lit. It MUST also be fitted with a red rear reflector (and amber pedal reflectors, if manufactured after 1/10/85). (Emphasis is in the original)

If this thread has taught me anything it's that people don't know how to understand the Highway code or differentiate between law and opinion.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"This is why I prefer running instead lol only hazard I have to worry about is smashing myself into a lamppost when running in the dark during these less light seasons lol

Ahhhh round these parts even runners aren't safe as there's often no path to run on and people are stupid running on the wrong side of the road and sand issues with clothing/lights.

What do you mean by the wrong side of the road?

The side they shouldn't be on. Its in the highway code and everything

In the interests of not speaking in coding and patting ourselves on the back due our knowledge, why not spell it out?

You think?

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By *lydeXXXMan
over a year ago

Doncaster

"I was behind one the other day in the dark. Do they not have reflectors as standard on bikes any more? I looked and looked, couldnt see any. Again he was all in dark, no lights ect. "

I believe it is a legal requirement to have a reflector fitted to the rear of a bicycle, a reflector on its own in the dark though isn't a great help.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

It is their responsibility under Rule 59 of the Highway Code - which I have cited above.

Role 59 says

Emphasis is mine. They are not required to wear anything. Rule 144 for drivers "you MUST NOT drive without due care and attention"

I absolutely agree wearing bright clothes is sensible and likely to reduce risk but the HC is clear on whose responsibility it is not to hit other road users.

If this thread has taught me anything it's that people don't know how to understand the Highway code or differentiate between law and opinion.

Mr"

I was commenting more on the "it is clear who's responsibility it is not to hit other road users" comment.

There's really no need to be so rude. Again.

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

It is their responsibility under Rule 59 of the Highway Code - which I have cited above.

Role 59 says

Emphasis is mine. They are not required to wear anything. Rule 144 for drivers "you MUST NOT drive without due care and attention"

I absolutely agree wearing bright clothes is sensible and likely to reduce risk but the HC is clear on whose responsibility it is not to hit other road users.

can't imagine hitting any creature and not checking on it and just driving home

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

It is their responsibility under Rule 59 of the Highway Code - which I have cited above.

Role 59 says

Emphasis is mine. They are not required to wear anything. Rule 144 for drivers "you MUST NOT drive without due care and attention"

I absolutely agree wearing bright clothes is sensible and likely to reduce risk but the HC is clear on whose responsibility it is not to hit other road users.

can't imagine hitting any creature and not checking on it and just driving home

It was probably panic. Deer can be dangerous, especially in mating season.

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

It is their responsibility under Rule 59 of the Highway Code - which I have cited above.

Role 59 says

Emphasis is mine. They are not required to wear anything. Rule 144 for drivers "you MUST NOT drive without due care and attention"

I absolutely agree wearing bright clothes is sensible and likely to reduce risk but the HC is clear on whose responsibility it is not to hit other road users.

can't imagine hitting any creature and not checking on it and just driving home

It was probably panic. Deer can be dangerous, especially in mating season. "

Maybe! But I would have deffo stopped without a thought for my own safety !

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By *ealthy_and_HungMan
over a year ago

Princes Risborough, Luasanne, Alderney

"the HC is clear on whose responsibility it is not to hit other road users.

Mr"

yes, it's quite clear that this is the responsibility of all those in charge of a vehicle including cyclists.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is their responsibility under Rule 59 of the Highway Code - which I have cited above.

Role 59 says

Emphasis is mine. They are not required to wear anything. Rule 144 for drivers "you MUST NOT drive without due care and attention"

I absolutely agree wearing bright clothes is sensible and likely to reduce risk but the HC is clear on whose responsibility it is not to hit other road users.

can't imagine hitting any creature and not checking on it and just driving home

It was probably panic. Deer can be dangerous, especially in mating season.

Maybe! But I would have deffo stopped without a thought for my own safety ! "

Me too! Without a doubt.

And a Deer would cause some serious damage to your car surely.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

It is their responsibility under Rule 59 of the Highway Code - which I have cited above.

Role 59 says

Emphasis is mine. They are not required to wear anything. Rule 144 for drivers "you MUST NOT drive without due care and attention"

I absolutely agree wearing bright clothes is sensible and likely to reduce risk but the HC is clear on whose responsibility it is not to hit other road users.

can't imagine hitting any creature and not checking on it and just driving home

It was probably panic. Deer can be dangerous, especially in mating season.

Maybe! But I would have deffo stopped without a thought for my own safety ! "

I'd personally probably call the police from the car. I lived in an area as a kid with a lot of deer (hence knowing this story) and it's pretty drilled into you not to approach them.

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

Please, for the love of god, cyclists: stop wearing black."

The lack of lights was the issue there, not the colour of clothing.

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

"It’s all about lights, not clothing. You can see a black car just fine, even at night, but only if it’s lights are on.

I fundamentally disagree. People in dark clothing are very hard to see on the road. Cars can be seen because the metal reflects some light - dark clothes reflect nothing.

Can’t disagree that black is hard to see, but lights add more visibility by generating it, that any clothing could by reflecting it.

Cyclists viewpoint, obviously. "

And the correct one!

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

Regarding flashing lights, you should keep them to a continuous beam rather than flashing. It’s much harder for someone to judge the distance of a flashing light.

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

Good read. I think this kind of makes my starting point about not wearing black

I do agree with the point about moving body elements. I saw a cyclist yesterday wearing bright green/orange cycle boots. He looked different but I could see him a mile off.

I think we can all agree wearing black at night with no lights is dumb.

I am curious why bikes are not being built that have reflective rear frames or pedals that are all reflective? Making the bike and it’s moving parts more visible seems like an easy win to me."

Most non-casual cyclists will be removing the pedals the bike came with in favour of spds or equivalents anyway. And most decent bikes don’t come with pedals for that reason.

You can get good socks with reflective patterns at the rear that do the same thing though.

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By *ustBoWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in Co. Down

I find this thread so strange and people pointing the finger at either cyclists or driver's.

Surely common sense would dictate that if you are using the road you would do everything you can to make sure you can be seen and lessen the chance of getting hurt or causing injury to others.

It's not bloody brain surgery to actually take responsibility for your own actions and try and do something as simple as wearing brighter clothes or putting lights on a bike so that you can be seen by other road users.

Everyone should be able to use the roads and be safe but there will always be those who believe they are the exception and they can do what they want then they wonder when it goes wrong why it did.And tragically by that point it's too late and lives are ruined.

Regardless of what laws say surely common sense should tell you to make sure you are doing all you can so that you can be seen.Life is too precious and laws don't matter a damn if you are lying on the road injured because someone couldn't see until it was too late to avoid you.

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By *opsy RogersWoman
over a year ago

London

I'm so lit up, you can see me from space.

It doesn't make much difference to drivers that still want to squeeze past me or walkers with dogs who are invisible in the dark.

The route I mostly take is made up of shared wide cycle and footpath and roads. The walkers and dog owners have almost been hit by me many times.

Just put a fucking light on!

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By *ealthy_and_HungMan
over a year ago

Princes Risborough, Luasanne, Alderney

the law is quite clear that cycles bought after 1st oct 1985 MUST be fitted with amber reflectors on the pedals. changing pedals OE pedals for aftermarket pedals does not negate the application of this law.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think this is more of a lights problem, black clothing wouldn't be an issue then, my bike lights are as good as car headlights! Also, riders need to respect the road, works both ways! X

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By *opsy RogersWoman
over a year ago

London

I remember a police documentary years ago about an unlit cyclist who was killed in a hit and run on a dark country road.

He was pissed and the car that clipped him had no idea until the police showed up at their door and told them.

They were exonerated of any crime.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It’s a scary situation to be in Op.

we get a lot of cyclist, walkers and horse riders around here and it really annoys me that most don’t wear bright or reflective clothing.

I’ve got a horse and never leave the yard without wearing hi viz on me and my horse.

I also walk my dogs wearing hi viz.

3 years ago I nearly hit 3 lads running around the lanes as it was getting dark. They were on the wrong side of the road coming around a blind bend. Scared the life out of me.

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

"the law is quite clear that cycles bought after 1st oct 1985 MUST be fitted with amber reflectors on the pedals. changing pedals OE pedals for aftermarket pedals does not negate the application of this law. "

While that is the case, there isn’t a police officer in the UK who will stop you to enforce this law if you are using lights on your bike. They tend to police based on road safety, and a cyclists with lights is cycling safely.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is their responsibility under Rule 59 of the Highway Code - which I have cited above.

Role 59 says

Emphasis is mine. They are not required to wear anything. Rule 144 for drivers "you MUST NOT drive without due care and attention"

I absolutely agree wearing bright clothes is sensible and likely to reduce risk but the HC is clear on whose responsibility it is not to hit other road users.

If this thread has taught me anything it's that people don't know how to understand the Highway code or differentiate between law and opinion.

I was commenting more on the "it is clear who's responsibility it is not to hit other road users" comment.

There's really no need to be so rude. Again. "

It's not being rude, it's frustration. You've just described a death - this is literally what happens when cyclists get hit. You've used an example of someone breaking the law (riding at night with no lights) to imply that it isn't always a drivers responsibility not to hit a cyclist while commenting on a thread about cyclists wearing dark clothes in daylight. The next driver who thinks he/she isn't responsible may be the one that ploughs into me. So yes, I may be a bit short about this but when almost every ride I am cut up, passed dangerously closely or have abuse screamed at me simply for riding my bike it tends to be a subject I feel strongly about.

The highway code is incredibly clear about whose responsibility it is. You offered an example of a friend not being charged as though in some circumstances it isn't the drivers fault. That is dangerously wrong. It is always the drivers responsibility, your example just shows that in the eyes of the law a failure to abide by the rules of the HC will mitigate this against this. Wearing dark clothes IS NOT an excuse for hitting a cyclist.

Plus, as has been pointed out, hitting anything then failing to stop on the ground you believe it's a deer is frankly disgusting - and yes, I have hit a deer and spent a long time wondering through the snow trying to find any evidence of it being hurt.

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By *xydadbodMan
over a year ago

Milton keynes

"This is why I prefer running instead lol only hazard I have to worry about is smashing myself into a lamppost when running in the dark during these less light seasons lol

Ahhhh round these parts even runners aren't safe as there's often no path to run on and people are stupid running on the wrong side of the road and sand issues with clothing/lights.

Ah yes and the redways aka cycle race tracks

To be fair even some Redways aren't properly lit either way or get turned off at certain time of the night

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"This is why I prefer running instead lol only hazard I have to worry about is smashing myself into a lamppost when running in the dark during these less light seasons lol

Ahhhh round these parts even runners aren't safe as there's often no path to run on and people are stupid running on the wrong side of the road and sand issues with clothing/lights.

What do you mean by the wrong side of the road?

The side they shouldn't be on. Its in the highway code and everything

In the interests of not speaking in coding and patting ourselves on the back due our knowledge, why not spell it out?

You think? "

Yes, hence the question mark, and I’m happy to be wrong. It’s not something I do, so I don’t really know the rule

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think, crappy as this sort of thing is, is that it’s the law to sell them that way. Nothing to say I can’t remove, like a fireproof tag on my sofa. Or it would be illegal to buy a bike without pedals, and I haven’t bought a bike with pedals in years,

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

It is their responsibility under Rule 59 of the Highway Code - which I have cited above.

Role 59 says

Emphasis is mine. They are not required to wear anything. Rule 144 for drivers "you MUST NOT drive without due care and attention"

I absolutely agree wearing bright clothes is sensible and likely to reduce risk but the HC is clear on whose responsibility it is not to hit other road users.

If this thread has taught me anything it's that people don't know how to understand the Highway code or differentiate between law and opinion.

I was commenting more on the "it is clear who's responsibility it is not to hit other road users" comment.

There's really no need to be so rude. Again.

Mr"

I never said it was a friend.

I never said that wearing dark clothing made it acceptable to run over a cyclist.

The official advice when hitting a deer is to find a safe place to pull over and contact police. If you get attacked by an injured deer, what chance of helping it do you have now and now you're potentially dead or injured in the middle of nowhere.

To be honest I should have thought better than to respond to a comment from you again from past experience and I personally think its better if we just avoid each other in future.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Indeed, this is all point of sale regulation, quote:

“ The Pedal Bicycles Safety Regulations (PBSR) forbids the selling of unsafe products. To ensure your safety, the PBSR sets out minimum requirements for all bikes to feature when sold. These are: hand-operated brakes arranged left-hand rear, right-hand front, a bell, white or yellow reflectors on both sides of each wheel or tyre, a white wide-angle front reflector, or a front lamp, a red wide-angle rear reflector and amber reflectors front and rear on each pedal.”

If you do t supply a pedal, you can’t put an amber reflector on it. And I can put on a pedal without, because I’m not selling me self a bike .

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By *ealthy_and_HungMan
over a year ago

Princes Risborough, Luasanne, Alderney

Indeed, this is all point of sale regulation, quote:

If you do t supply a pedal, you can’t put an amber reflector on it. And I can put on a pedal without, because I’m not selling me self a bike ."

that is incorrect. the date of sale of an item has nothing to do with the issue at hand. the law is perfectly clear despite your protestaions to the contrary. Law RVLR regs 13, 18 & 24

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Indeed, this is all point of sale regulation, quote:

If you do t supply a pedal, you can’t put an amber reflector on it. And I can put on a pedal without, because I’m not selling me self a bike ."

I can't comment on the laws about seeking but while you are allowed to remove the three reflectors it is illegal to ride at night without them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If there’s anything I’ve learnt from the past year in these forums

Why should cyclists have to do anything?

Why don’t cars stop hitting them?

Raise your drivers better "

Carlos agrees. Carlos was an avid cyclist until he had kids then he retired the bike, Carlos didn't want to die. Cyclist are fragile, treat them with care.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I was behind one the other day in the dark. Do they not have reflectors as standard on bikes any more? I looked and looked, couldnt see any. Again he was all in dark, no lights ect. "

Carlos says all bikes are sold with reflectors, it's the law. Some people remove them.

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By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

It's not just cyclists, pedestrians go out all dressed in black and assume they will be seen in the dark

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It’s all about lights, not clothing. You can see a black car just fine, even at night, but only if it’s lights are on.

I fundamentally disagree. People in dark clothing are very hard to see on the road. Cars can be seen because the metal reflects some light - dark clothes reflect nothing."

Carlos says you are spot on my friend. Cars use day light running lights to be seen during the day. Cyclist can't legislate for bad drivers so they should take every precaution to protect themselves.

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By *ellhungvwe OP Man
over a year ago

Cheltenham

Please, for the love of god, cyclists: stop wearing black.

The lack of lights was the issue there, not the colour of clothing."

The issue was that they were essentially invisible to me. I agree that lights are key but I am also just pleading not to dress like a ninja.

I saw the walker who was a lot further away and he didn’t have lights on either.

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By *ellhungvwe OP Man
over a year ago

Cheltenham

Please, for the love of god, cyclists: stop wearing black.

The lack of lights was the issue there, not the colour of clothing.

The issue was that they were essentially invisible to me. I agree that lights are key but I am also just pleading not to dress like a ninja.

I saw the walker who was a lot further away and he didn’t have lights on either. "

For what it is worth I have just come back that way and saw another cyclist with out lights in the similar conditions to this morning but at night. He had a bright yellow wind jacket on and he was much more visible.

I am guessing he got caught out late than expected - hence the lack of lights again - but at least this time he was visible to me.

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

Please, for the love of god, cyclists: stop wearing black.

The lack of lights was the issue there, not the colour of clothing.

The issue was that they were essentially invisible to me. I agree that lights are key but I am also just pleading not to dress like a ninja.

I saw the walker who was a lot further away and he didn’t have lights on either. "

The point is if you have lights, as you should do when cycling in the dark, the colour of clothes you are wearing is irrelevant.

So you should be asking people to use lights. Then they can dress head to toe in black and it won’t bother you because you’ll be able to see them regardless.

Having said that, it’s a bit mystifying that your headlights picked up nothing at all on either of the two bikes they were riding…were they dipped from nose to tail in light absorbing paint too?

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

It’s also worth knowing it’s practically impossible to buy dark cycling clothing these days that doesn’t have any reflective elements on.

Perhaps the two cyclists in question were on a secret mission!

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By *ellhungvwe OP Man
over a year ago

Cheltenham

Please, for the love of god, cyclists: stop wearing black.

The lack of lights was the issue there, not the colour of clothing.

The issue was that they were essentially invisible to me. I agree that lights are key but I am also just pleading not to dress like a ninja.

I saw the walker who was a lot further away and he didn’t have lights on either.

The point is if you have lights, as you should do when cycling in the dark, the colour of clothes you are wearing is irrelevant.

So you should be asking people to use lights. Then they can dress head to toe in black and it won’t bother you because you’ll be able to see them regardless.

Having said that, it’s a bit mystifying that your headlights picked up nothing at all on either of the two bikes they were riding…were they dipped from nose to tail in light absorbing paint too?

All I am saying is that they were not visible - would love it if they had lights but they didn’t. The roads are filthy round here - mud from the farms and rain - so they could have been covered from that? Who knows?

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By *enny PR9TV/TS
over a year ago

Southport

Please, for the love of god, cyclists: stop wearing black.

The lack of lights was the issue there, not the colour of clothing.

The issue was that they were essentially invisible to me. I agree that lights are key but I am also just pleading not to dress like a ninja.

I saw the walker who was a lot further away and he didn’t have lights on either.

The point is if you have lights, as you should do when cycling in the dark, the colour of clothes you are wearing is irrelevant.

So you should be asking people to use lights. Then they can dress head to toe in black and it won’t bother you because you’ll be able to see them regardless.

Having said that, it’s a bit mystifying that your headlights picked up nothing at all on either of the two bikes they were riding…were they dipped from nose to tail in light absorbing paint too?

Obviously they come from the same inter dimensional place as the scooter boys. You know the ones, they pop into existence just after the traffic lights turn red, they run the gauntlet of buses and articulated lorries as they cross their path, arriving unscathed on the other side before disappearing out of existence back to their own realm.

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By *d59michelleTV/TS
over a year ago

walsall

Suicidal no excuse not to be lit up these days with the range of lights available unlike the 1970s with the crap ever ready lights that took 2 x D batteries which only lasted a week in winter

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By *d59michelleTV/TS
over a year ago

walsall

"It's not just cyclists, pedestrians go out all dressed in black and assume they will be seen in the dark

Wear something white at night or carry a newspaper as the old public service advert used to say

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Suicidal no excuse not to be lit up these days with the range of lights available unlike the 1970s with the crap ever ready lights that took 2 x D batteries which only lasted a week in winter "

I remember those in the 80's, big square things with plastic clip in brackets. Used way too much paper round money replacing those bloody batteries

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I do get it OP, and you are right, wearing bright clothes does increase your chances of being seen on a bike.

I'm sorry if I was grumpy with people earlier, two bike rides in two days cut up badly on the first then overtaken by a twat in a big SUV on a dead straight wide open A road with nothing coming the other way and he shot past my mate and I at 60 plus (we were doing nearly 40mph) so close the wind nearly pushed us off the road. One tiny wobble from either of us clipping a bit of debris and it would have been our smashed bodies bleeding to death in a hedge. Some days the way you get treated by drivers gets a bit much and then you come on here reading yet another thread that either outright bashes cyclists or somehow makes them responsible for not being hit by drivers who should be paying more attention.

Lacy, I'm sorry if you feel I'm attacking you, I promise you I'm not. I tend to notice a few forumites whose views I respect or who make me laugh or have some kind of positive impact on me. There are very very few who say things so bad I remember from one thread to the next - you definitely are not one of those. Even if you were, I wouldn't attack you simply because I don't like you, I only ever argue against a given post or opinion. If we've butted heads in the past it is only because like today you've said something I strongly disagree with - and I honestly have no idea what that was nor any desire to trawl through the green arrow list to find out. I will make more effort in the future not to be rude.

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By *ust RachelTV/TS
over a year ago

Horsham

"I don’t even mind the lack of lights in this instance. I am just pleading that cyclists make black unfashionable."

It was made fashionable years ago with pro teams choosing dark colours.

Saying that, I got knocked off my bike when wearing a hi vis jacket. This was 9am and it was daylight, so you are damned if you do, damned if you don't.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Simply bring in a law that cyclists have to wear a high viz vest or that their preferred Lycra has the high viz built in.

Anyone on a road in the dark should have to wear high viz be that a broken down car with the driver out and pedestrians where there is no path."

I had a motorbike that the whole front of it was flourescent orange, the amount of car drivers that pulled out in front of me was amazing. When I went after them, I got told they never saw me.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"I do get it OP, and you are right, wearing bright clothes does increase your chances of being seen on a bike.

Mr"

How can you strongly disagree with me when I haven't even expressed an opinion?

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By *ellhungvwe OP Man
over a year ago

Cheltenham

"I do get it OP, and you are right, wearing bright clothes does increase your chances of being seen on a bike.

Mr"

No worries and I understand why you might be pissed off but I do actually feel like I am on your side on this one - I am just trying to make the world a little safer and this morning scared me.

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By *etterryseeMan
over a year ago

near Swindon

Good evening everyone. I’ve taken the time to read every response and it’s great to have a debate that’s not cyclist or car bashing.

I’ll pin my colours to the mast as such - I’m a driver (as most cyclists will be) and a cyclist, and I cycle over 6,000 miles a year all on the road.

When I drive I see what has been described in daylight, dressed in black no day running lights and pretty hard to see whether travelling in my direction or coming towards me. I ask myself why - the cyclist has a duty of care to themselves and drivers and vice versa - it is a shared space.

When I cycle - and it’s year round in all lights - I always have a decent flashing light on front and back - and if at night a second light back and front. I am looking at buying a new rear light that is brighter and a longer battery life - around £30 for something good. I rarely wear anything dark as a top - and if it is I make sure it has a bright stripe at least - but mostly wear bright colours with reflective decals on. My shoes have a reflective area on the heel - as do my overshoes should I be wearing them. I don’t have a pro viz jacket but agree with comments - they are amazing!

After all I want to get to where I am going (I’m a Dad, son etc.) - equally I would hate to be the innocent driver who hits a cyclist because they thought it was cool to be in black and not have any lights.

So agree with the Op - light up for you own good and the majority of drivers who respect your right to be on the road.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

I've installed lights on my wheelchair (manual) both front and back and put a hi viz vest over the back when I'm out at night/in low light. Despite this, still no one can fucking well see me, presumably because they don't ever look down or expect anything to exist below the level of their bonnet. I'm confident I could quite literally be lit by the power of several suns and people would still walk into me, fall over me or fail to see me crossing at pelican crossings etc. Taking my daughter to school or picking her up this winter has frankly been terrifying. I can't rely on driving her always because of the wankers who take up the blue badge bays but who should not be using them. I can't abide any more abuse from the residents near school for having the audacity to park (perfectly legally, and briefly) on the double yellow lines near the school. You see, the estate where the school is has a dearth of dropped kerbs and so unless I park on the double yellows, I'd have to push in the road for several hundred metres before I'd be able to get onto the kerb. There's too much traffic and I'm trying to supervise a 5yo for me to attempt kerb popping (I need a fair run up, about the whole width of the road).

Manual wheelchair users are sitting ducks

and honestly, it feels like absolutely no one cares. And if I see another signboard that says "why don't you walk or cycle to work/school etc" then I might lose my shit entirely.

Rant over.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

(bike)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I do get it OP, and you are right, wearing bright clothes does increase your chances of being seen on a bike.

How can you strongly disagree with me when I haven't even expressed an opinion?"

So I re-read this morning and the post of mine you replied to ended:-

"The HC is very clear on whose responsibility it is not to hit other road users"

You replied "I know someone though who wasn't.... "

It may just have been the way I'm reading this but there is no need for the inclusion of the word "though" in this sentence unless you were disagreeing with my last statement.

Again, I'm sorry if I misread read this but your post felt a bit like replying to a comment saying "the law is very clear that it is illegal to murder people" by saying "I know someone who disturbed a burglar and hit them with a saucepan and killed them and they weren't charged ..."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Would be profile picture outfit be OK to wear when cycling?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Would be profile picture outfit be OK to wear when cycling? "

Funnily enough, you would absolutely be seen. Which kind of suggests it isn't that drivers are not capable of noticing cyclists or that their eyes haven't picked up their existence, just that the data our eyes send to their brain is ignored as not important. An attractive woman in her underwear would make most brains wake up and pay attention.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"I do get it OP, and you are right, wearing bright clothes does increase your chances of being seen on a bike.

How can you strongly disagree with me when I haven't even expressed an opinion?

So I re-read this morning and the post of mine you replied to ended:-

"The HC is very clear on whose responsibility it is not to hit other road users"

You replied "I know someone though who wasn't.... "

It may just have been the way I'm reading this but there is no need for the inclusion of the word "though" in this sentence unless you were disagreeing with my last statement.

Mr"

Okay, let me put it this way. Can you tell me what it is that I said that you strongly disagree with? Do you disagree with me that it's a thing that happened? If its that you think it's wrong they weren't charged and they should have been, it wasn't me that made that decision.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Would be profile picture outfit be OK to wear when cycling?

Mr"

Ah perfect. I might wear it on my hikes in the lake district especially the routes where you have to walk along the roads

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Would be profile picture outfit be OK to wear when cycling?

Ah perfect. I might wear it on my hikes in the lake district especially the routes where you have to walk along the roads

Yet another reason to visit the Lakes

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

Everyone will be pleased to know that the only cyclist I encountered on my recent drive was dressed from head to toe in the bright yellow suits worn by road workers and had a yellow band around their black helmet. I just about could see her

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Please just ban cyclists all together, make my life a tad easier and less stressful ????????????

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Please just ban cyclists all together, make my life a tad easier and less stressful ????????????

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Please just ban cyclists all together, make my life a tad easier and less stressful ????????????

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By *etterryseeMan
over a year ago

near Swindon

"Would be profile picture outfit be OK to wear when cycling? "

Absolutely-cycling, hiking - whatever!! Be safe be seen

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"Please just ban cyclists all together, make my life a tad easier and less stressful ????????????"

Wow.... 3 times

Think maybe counselling would be best for you!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Please just ban cyclists all together, make my life a tad easier and less stressful ????????????

Wow.... 3 times

Think maybe counselling would be best for you! "

God knows why it posted three times, oooooops

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I disagree strongly with the suggestion that it isn't ALWAYS the drivers responsibility to see other road users. At the top of my post (admittedly there were several replies in between) I specifically added the proviso that this was only the case if the cyclist was not breaking the HC. Assuming a cyclist has a road legal bike, is not d*unk, not under the influence of drugs, not jumping a red light or in any other way contravening the HC, it is ALWAYS the responsibility of a driver of any motorised vehicle to see the cyclist and give them space- whatever colour clothes they are wearing. Again, I may have totally misunderstood your post but to me the inclusion of that "though" and a reference in your story to what the cyclist was wearing read very much as though you were claiming this isn't the case.

As an aside (and this has nothing to do with why I disagreed with you), while I don't doubt you have recounted what you were told, I do doubt the story. I hit a deer in the middle of the night, there were three of us in the car, none of us saw the deer until too late yet in that brief period between it appearing in the headlight beam and the moment of impact, *All* of us clearly saw it was a deer, clearly saw it stop and try to reverse direction and clearly saw it clip my front wing. I absolutely believe it is possible not to see an unlit cyclist until too late, I absolutely agree its possible to hit a bit of debris and not have seen what it was, I don't believe it's possible to hit a cyclist with enough force to kill him and not realise the object you hit was a person on a bike. I also believe someone concerned about the deer would stop, someone concerned about an obstruction in the road would stop, someone concerned about neither wouldn't ring the police when they got home. I'm not a coroner though or the CPS and I don't know how much effect the delay in reporting had on this cyclists chances of survival so I can't say why this person wasn't charged with leaving the scene of an accident but I can say, whatever the cyclist was wearing, if his bike had reflectors or lights they absolutely would have been.

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By *opsy RogersWoman
over a year ago

London

"Please just ban cyclists all together, make my life a tad easier and less stressful ????????????"

I'd like to ban trucks, it would make my driving experience MUCH easier.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Please just ban cyclists all together, make my life a tad easier and less stressful ????????????"

Do me a favour. Get two stop watches and mount them in your cab. Everytime you get to a roundabout or junction where you have to stop and wait because there are other vehicles in a queue or on the road you want to enter, start one of the stop watches and stop it when you're free to move.

Everytime you get stuck behind a cyclist, start the other and stop it once you're past. We will ignore the fact you're not actually stopped, just going slower so the time you lose will actually be less than you record.

At the end of a week, compare how much time you've lost due to other vehicles with that lost due to cyclists and then you can explain why it is that you find cyclists such a problem ....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Please just ban cyclists all together, make my life a tad easier and less stressful ????????????

At the end of a week, compare how much time you've lost due to other vehicles with that lost due to cyclists and then you can explain why it is that you find cyclists such a problem ....

Mr"

Has nothing to do with time etc, however there a some that go out of there way to cause other road users grief, and think they are above the law, as a driver I have to sit through training every year, at my cost just to be alowed to do my job, whereas cyclists do not require any training etc.

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By *opsy RogersWoman
over a year ago

London

"Please just ban cyclists all together, make my life a tad easier and less stressful ????????????

At the end of a week, compare how much time you've lost due to other vehicles with that lost due to cyclists and then you can explain why it is that you find cyclists such a problem ....

You don't honestly believe that all truck drivers are perfect drivers do you?!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Please just ban cyclists all together, make my life a tad easier and less stressful ????????????

At the end of a week, compare how much time you've lost due to other vehicles with that lost due to cyclists and then you can explain why it is that you find cyclists such a problem ....

You don't honestly believe that all truck drivers are perfect drivers do you?!!!"

God no, some are absolutely horrendous drivers.

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By *opsy RogersWoman
over a year ago

London

"Please just ban cyclists all together, make my life a tad easier and less stressful ????????????

At the end of a week, compare how much time you've lost due to other vehicles with that lost due to cyclists and then you can explain why it is that you find cyclists such a problem ....

You don't honestly believe that all truck drivers are perfect drivers do you?!!!

God no, some are absolutely horrendous drivers. "

Have you seen any of the crash investigation series?

There were two fatalities involving trucks that were entirely the deceaseds fault, the way the forensics were put together was absolutely fascinating.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Please just ban cyclists all together, make my life a tad easier and less stressful ????????????

At the end of a week, compare how much time you've lost due to other vehicles with that lost due to cyclists and then you can explain why it is that you find cyclists such a problem ....

I totally agree with this. I've re- sat training for FLT's and MEWPs many times throughout my career. The reason for this is that if I have an accident and haven't had this c training the HSE will prosecute my employers for not ensuring adequate training. At the same time the roads are full of people who did a few hours training 1/4 of a century ago and have never even considered any kind of re-training since but happily operate machines weighing a tonne or more at speeds more than capable of exploding a human body. Again, why pick on cyclists?

Alongside your two stop watches please add a note pad to jot down instances of bad driving, you can split the page into two columns, one for cyclists one for drivers of motorised vehicles.

You see, cyclists are people, exactly the same as car and lorry drivers. We all make mistakes, we all piss each other off, we all make conscious decisions when to ignore laws that apply to us on the road - if you don't believe me check how many people stick to a 20mph limit. There is absolutely no reason to believe there is any link whatsoever between choosing to ride a bike and being especially obnoxious, more likely to break road laws or more likely to not care about your fellow road users. Any correlation you believe you have noticed is 100% your confirmation bias. Stop de-humanizing people just because of their mode of transport, try a little empathy.

If you start a new thread titled "why my irritation at cyclists is so irrational" this time next Monday I'll look out for your findings.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

Mr"

At the end of the day, if you physically can't see something, you can't see it. It isn't like I've said "if someone wears all black it's totally acceptable for someone to intentionally mow them down with their car because they don't like their choice of colour". I really don't believe there is anyone here who wants to run people over and I'm pretty sure the OP posted this to try to prevent people getting run over.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

Oh and that actually is my opinion, as you seem to think I don't know what an opinion is

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By *d59michelleTV/TS
over a year ago

walsall

"Suicidal no excuse not to be lit up these days with the range of lights available unlike the 1970s with the crap ever ready lights that took 2 x D batteries which only lasted a week in winter

I remember those in the 80's, big square things with plastic clip in brackets. Used way too much paper round money replacing those bloody batteries

Mr"

And me

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Please just ban cyclists all together, make my life a tad easier and less stressful ????????????

At the end of a week, compare how much time you've lost due to other vehicles with that lost due to cyclists and then you can explain why it is that you find cyclists such a problem ....

Alongside your two stop watches please add a note pad to jot down instances of bad driving, you can split the page into two columns, one for cyclists one for drivers of motorised vehicles.

If you start a new thread titled "why my irritation at cyclists is so irrational" this time next Monday I'll look out for your findings.

Mr"

Didn't realise that I have dehumanised anyone by expressing my opinions about cyclists. You are very correct in your observations that all Road users are guilty of not abiding by the law at some point.

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By *alandNitaCouple
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

Please, for the love of god, cyclists: stop wearing black."

It's great to hear from a driver who doesn't HATE people on bikes. I totally agree, it's just madness to not make yourself as visible as possible.

I can't remember ever having any cycling gear that didn't have reflective bits on.

Cal

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By *ellhungvwe OP Man
over a year ago

Cheltenham

Please, for the love of god, cyclists: stop wearing black.

It's great to hear from a driver who doesn't HATE people on bikes. I totally agree, it's just madness to not make yourself as visible as possible.

I can't remember ever having any cycling gear that didn't have reflective bits on.

Cal"

I think we are all in agreement that nobody wants to kill anyone and everyone would prefer it if people chose a more reflective/brighter/choose the word that makes you happy piece of clothing over one that meant you were less visible.

That’s all I ask

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

"Please just ban cyclists all together, make my life a tad easier and less stressful ????????????"

WTAF???

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall

Sounds like a victim blaming thread. Cyclists bodies are theirs. They can wear what they choose. Their body, their choice. Just because they don’t wear day glo gear and think about being responsible for their own safety, doesn’t give people the right to mow them down on cars or the like.

We need to be training our drivers not to run down cyclists wearing whatever clothes the choose. They are not “asking for it” just because they wear dark clothing.

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By *rWarwickshireMan
over a year ago

Leamington Spa

I always cut or in bright yellow no matter what the time or weather… at my height I look like a 6.5ft long banana!!!

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By *hagTonightMan
over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

They could also keep on the side of the road instead of taking up the whole road . I see so many blocking the traffic so the cars have to wait for a gap to drive past them.

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

"They could also keep on the side of the road instead of taking up the whole road . I see so many blocking the traffic so the cars have to wait for a gap to drive past them."

Safer that way x

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By *hagTonightMan
over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

"They could also keep on the side of the road instead of taking up the whole road . I see so many blocking the traffic so the cars have to wait for a gap to drive past them.

Safer that way x"
Yes, it would be that too x.

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By *arkieboy517Couple
over a year ago

Marlborough

[Removed by poster at 14/02/22 13:41:53]

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