FabSwingers.com forum: Racism v Cruelty to Animals

By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago

Chelmsford

A West ham footballer has said that a player who was accussed of racialist behaviour got an 8 match ban but a player facing allegations of cat cruelty faces the sack.

What is worse? Racism or cat cruelty and will the cat cruelty punishment fit the crime?

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By *yron69Man
over a year ago

Fareham

Hate and cruelty is not a match mate.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why do we live in a society where crimes are treated like a competition? All cruelty, prejudice, hatred and crimes are on the same level. The punishment will never be because people aren't on the same level with the class system in this country.

I don't want to live in a world where we debate whats worse, they are cunts end of.

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

I think the issue has become conflated when it shouldn’t be.

He’s not going to get the sack. He may get rightly prosecuted and that’s on him.

There should have been harsher bans for the racism. People called them out for the sack as well.

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By *ryandseeMan
over a year ago

Yorkshire

Such comparisons are fundamentally flawed. All abuse, hatred, discrimination are totally deplorable and have no place in a civilised society and should and merit appropriate action and punishment. Whilst we all know that the professionals don't get it right all the time, I don't feel qualified to be judge and jury regarding any action or punishment deserved no matter how appalled or disgusted I may be.

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

He doesn’t face the sack, people are saying he should be sacked.

At the moment WH have fined the player and stated waiting for the full RSPCA investigation. Could that lead to more punishment, probably. He has already lost his sponsorship and may have to face charges in France for his actions here.

No one is above the law but it is up to the club to deal with it, within the bounds of what their contract with the player allows, outside of any criminal prosecution that may come.

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

Both as bad as each other x

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By *AYENCouple
over a year ago

Lincolnshire

I don't think it's illegal for an individual to be racist - acts of physical violence are. So they can't really be compared.

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By *annaBeStrongMan
over a year ago

wokingham

"I don't think it's illegal for an individual to be racist - acts of physical violence are. So they can't really be compared.

Depends on the country and how you define “being racist”

In the UK you absolutely can be break the law by being racist

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't think it's illegal for an individual to be racist - acts of physical violence are. So they can't really be compared.

Incidents of racism can be reported as hate crimes and can result in prosecution I believe.

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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago

Travelling

Depends I guess. Different factors to consider.

Animal vs human

Physical abuse vs verbal abuse

People will weight each of these differently.

For me personally causing physical harm for the sake of causing physical harm to another living animal, especially one that is very unlikely to defend itself effectively, is worse than any verbal abuse to a human, even if it is racial, towards any skin colour or religious view.

That said, I still view both as grounds for dismissal, personally so long as there is decent proof. And save me the free speech shite, intent and blatant vile hateful comments cross a line of free speech that opens you up to any and all consequences coming your way.

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By *rauntonbananaMan
over a year ago

Braunton

There are people already playing the race card…how on and what in earth is race in anyway linked to this…STOP IT!!!!

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By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago

Chelmsford

"There are people already playing the race card…how on and what in earth is race in anyway linked to this…STOP IT!!!!"

It's not me saying it. It was the West Ham player Antonio on sky sports

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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago

Travelling

"There are people already playing the race card…how on and what in earth is race in anyway linked to this…STOP IT!!!!"

Because some people always play the race card.

However in this particular question presented by the OP it has grounds for a good discussion. It is comparing two different punishments for two different offenses and should they be equal, or not.

Its not really playing the race card, more does the punishment fit the crime as a comparison

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

For me personally, I don’t think much is gained in comparing these particular things. Don’t know why Kirkland decided to on BBC breakfast tbh.

For me, violence is more than just physical and for me, racism is violence. And to be honest, my experiences of racism have resulted in pretty serious mental health effects. The trauma of an incident is of course different for each individual but I don’t think it’s as simple as (one is physical and one is not). I just think the comparisons, whether they aim to or not, just end up undermining the experiences of those that have experienced racism.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There are people already playing the race card…how on and what in earth is race in anyway linked to this…STOP IT!!!!"

Chris Kirkland was the one that got on the telly and said that this was worse than racism. I am pretty sure that’s what started this all. And Antonio has jumped on the back of social media discourse.

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By *ryandseeMan
over a year ago

Yorkshire

It looks like the post, as other similar ones, is already achieving its purpose despite its flawed comparison. I hope that decent people will condemn and be appaled by all of these things and expect that there should be consequences and merited punishment. I certainly would not want to make any comparisons and as I have already said I would not be qualified to quantify the consequences or punishment merited.

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By *oobyHotwifeWoman
over a year ago

Thurrock

Both are horrific

In my opinion the player who was racist also deserved the sack, they are both role models and as such a severe punishment needs to be issued, I don't know how either players teammates can shake their hands on the pitch stand side by side against them

West Ham are brushing it under the carpet as they are just worried about points, to not even suspend the player shows their feeling on the matter, they are basically condoning his actions

Respect to Dagenham & Redbridge for suspending his brothers who was seen laughing on the video it amazing how a lower league club can lead the way and stand up to bullies but a bigger club want to shy away and hope the problem goes away

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By *awpleasureMan
over a year ago

Sutton Coldfield

If somebody is racist to you, you have the choice to report them or retaliate.

What choice did a defenceless cat have against a six foot two, 14 stone, athletic human?

Sadly neither animal cruelty or racism will disappear from society but I'd rather anybody racially abuse me than hurt my pet cat.

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By *uffymayfairCouple
over a year ago

vera playa, Almeria

Racism is unacceptable however to drop kick an defenceless animal then continue to torture it for a bit if fun is, in my opinion, far worse. A person being abused has the option to report it and leave, a cat that is being kept as a pet doesn't have that option.

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By *ryandseeMan
over a year ago

Yorkshire

"If somebody is racist to you, you have the choice to report them or retaliate.

What choice did a defenceless cat have against a six foot two, 14 stone, athletic human?

Sadly neither animal cruelty or racism will disappear from society but I'd rather anybody racially abuse me than hurt my pet cat. "

And perhaps that's why this was such a bad comparison. A wrong appaling act is just that. It does not need comparison to another.

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By *sBlueWoman
over a year ago

Up North

"Racism is unacceptable however to drop kick an defenceless animal then continue to torture it for a bit if fun is, in my opinion, far worse. A person being abused has the option to report it and leave, a cat that is being kept as a pet doesn't have that option."

Agree

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think the point he was trying to make is that we as a society value a cat more than someone who is not white.

A complete load of bullshit but I think that’s the point he was making.

They’re 2 completely different things but I do agree racism needs to be dealt with a lot better in football.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If somebody is racist to you, you have the choice to report them or retaliate.

What choice did a defenceless cat have against a six foot two, 14 stone, athletic human?

Sadly neither animal cruelty or racism will disappear from society but I'd rather anybody racially abuse me than hurt my pet cat. "

thanks for this gift

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By *he_Last_TitanMan
over a year ago

Bristol

"There are people already playing the race card…how on and what in earth is race in anyway linked to this…STOP IT!!!!

It's not me saying it. It was the West Ham player Antonio on sky sports "

Calm down buddy - no needed to be triggered here.

No one was playing the 'race card', the chap in question was basically raising the question that if people don't get sacked over racist incidents, should in respect of incidents like this.

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By *ebjonnsonMan
over a year ago

Maldon

"There are people already playing the race card…how on and what in earth is race in anyway linked to this…STOP IT!!!!

It's not me saying it. It was the West Ham player Antonio on sky sports

Calm down buddy - no needed to be triggered here.

No one was playing the 'race card', the chap in question was basically raising the question that if people don't get sacked over racist incidents, should in respect of incidents like this.

It was a poor point that Antonio was trying to make and he didn’t make it particularly well. He wouldn’t have raised it though if the footballer involved was white.

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By *AYENCouple
over a year ago

Lincolnshire

"I don't think it's illegal for an individual to be racist - acts of physical violence are. So they can't really be compared.

Depends on the country and how you define “being racist”

In the UK you absolutely can be break the law by being racist "

Yes, good point, but you can still be racist legally (enough evidence of that on here) whereas you can't be violent legally. Both are bad and totally unacceptable, but still not comparable, imo.

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By *AYENCouple
over a year ago

Lincolnshire

"I don't think it's illegal for an individual to be racist - acts of physical violence are. So they can't really be compared.

Incidents of racism can be reported as hate crimes and can result in prosecution I believe. "

Agreed, there are varying degrees of racism, from the ignorant to the extreme, but I was meaning the act itself of having racist thoughts, rather than actions

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"I don't think it's illegal for an individual to be racist - acts of physical violence are. So they can't really be compared.

Depends on the country and how you define “being racist”

In the UK you absolutely can be break the law by being racist

Yes, good point, but you can still be racist legally (enough evidence of that on here) whereas you can't be violent legally. Both are bad and totally unacceptable, but still not comparable, imo."

It is illegal to incite hatred. We don't need the thought police arresting us for our beliefs...

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By *ichaelangelaCouple
over a year ago

notts

"A West ham footballer has said that a player who was accussed of racialist behaviour got an 8 match ban but a player facing allegations of cat cruelty faces the sack.

What is worse? Racism or cat cruelty and will the cat cruelty punishment fit the crime?"

Suppose it would depend on if it was posted on Face ache or not

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By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago

Chelmsford

Does anyone know what the French think of all of this. ?

Has it made the French papers ..

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

"Does anyone know what the French think of all of this. ?

Has it made the French papers .. "

They are looking into it as he could face charges over there to

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Completely different

Cruelty and physical abuse is just evil ,and everybody knows it's wrong ...

Racism is pure uneducation , and ignorance .you can change racism by educating and teaching .as a racist only learns to be a racist by being taught by a racist .

Physically hurting another creature is pure evil and noone teaches you that

Both are unacceptable in society ..

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By *oan of DArcCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

"There are people already playing the race card…how on and what in earth is race in anyway linked to this…STOP IT!!!!

..............................

Interesting, so it was Chris Kirkland, a white football coach who actually introduced the 'race card', that snappy epithet mostly attributed to black people to trivialise their opinions!

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By *oan of DArcCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I don't think it's illegal for an individual to be racist - acts of physical violence are. So they can't really be compared.

Incidents of racism can be reported as hate crimes and can result in prosecution I believe.

Agreed, there are varying degrees of racism, from the ignorant to the extreme, but I was meaning the act itself of having racist thoughts, rather than actions

..............................

That's right, anyone is entitled to be a racist if they want to be, it's how those beliefs manifest themselves that can cause the issue

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By *oan of DArcCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

Ps and Zouma should be suspended pending any criminal investigation and be sacked if guilty, in my opinion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There are people already playing the race card…how on and what in earth is race in anyway linked to this…STOP IT!!!!

..............................

Interesting, so it was Chris Kirkland, a white football coach who actually introduced the 'race card', that snappy epithet mostly attributed to black people to trivialise their opinions!

"
I know! Shocking.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ps and Zouma should be suspended pending any criminal investigation and be sacked if guilty, in my opinion."

Agree

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Abuse is abuse. Both should have a severe punishment.

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By *he_Last_TitanMan
over a year ago

Bristol

"I don't think it's illegal for an individual to be racist - acts of physical violence are. So they can't really be compared.

Depends on the country and how you define “being racist”

In the UK you absolutely can be break the law by being racist

Yes, good point, but you can still be racist legally (enough evidence of that on here) whereas you can't be violent legally. Both are bad and totally unacceptable, but still not comparable, imo.

It is illegal to incite hatred. We don't need the thought police arresting us for our beliefs... "

We already do, in the illegality of membership of banned groups, whose beliefs you may share - even if you don't act on them or incite others to do so.

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By *he_Last_TitanMan
over a year ago

Bristol

"Ps and Zouma should be suspended pending any criminal investigation and be sacked if guilty, in my opinion."

Should he ever be allowed to play professional football again?

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Both are abhorrent and we are following a silly game, by trying to compare the 2 events.

Generally, cruelty to animals is something that is hidden and so the small proportion of incidents gaining public awareness, should be treated with very severe measures. Nobody or any animal, should have to continue to be left to suffer in silence, after a human has hurt them. Racist abuse and racism is another form of abuse against others. None of these can be tolerated in a civilised, humane society

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By *arlomaleMan
over a year ago

darlington

"Ps and Zouma should be suspended pending any criminal investigation and be sacked if guilty, in my opinion.

Should he ever be allowed to play professional football again?"
yes he should look at footballers who’ve beaten their partners over the years it hasn’t stopped them from kicking a ball again one stupid act should not affect his future career

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By *nfin8yWoman
over a year ago

Newcastle-under-Lyme

"I think the point he was trying to make is that we as a society value a cat more than someone who is not white.

A complete load of bullshit but I think that’s the point he was making.

They’re 2 completely different things but I do agree racism needs to be dealt with a lot better in football."

And animal abuse needs to dealt with more effectively too

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By *oan of DArcCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Ps and Zouma should be suspended pending any criminal investigation and be sacked if guilty, in my opinion.

Should he ever be allowed to play professional football again?"

..............................

I don't really have a view, I guess it's a matter for the clubs who are interested in him , their supporters and sponsors.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A West ham footballer has said that a player who was accussed of racialist behaviour got an 8 match ban but a player facing allegations of cat cruelty faces the sack.

What is worse? Racism or cat cruelty and will the cat cruelty punishment fit the crime?"

This is what happens when group identity is pushed to the forefront over individual identity, everything becomes a competition between different groups as to who is right, wrong, better, worse, more persecuted, less persecuted…

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ps and Zouma should be suspended pending any criminal investigation and be sacked if guilty, in my opinion.

Should he ever be allowed to play professional football again?"

Of course he should, he kicked a cat, he didn’t murder someone. If murderers can get out of prison then cat kickers should be afforded the same chance. Of course murderers shouldn’t be released but still…

What should happen is sacked and a ban from playing for a certain amount of time, after which time he can come back but clubs can refuse him as they so wish.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ps and Zouma should be suspended pending any criminal investigation and be sacked if guilty, in my opinion.

Should he ever be allowed to play professional football again?

What should happen is sacked and a ban from playing for a certain amount of time, after which time he can come back but clubs can refuse him as they so wish."

Totally agree

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By *martpulseMan
over a year ago

Plymouth

Up to 5 years imprisonment for cruety to animals, pleased that his sponsors stopped sponsoring him, also there are some sponsors who have stopped sponsoring the club as the club played him less than 24 hours after the video came out. As someone who was not born in the UK if he's convicted and spends time in prison he can be deported back to France. He then can be prosecuted in France for up to 4 years for "bringing the country into disrepute when outside France" fingers crossed he gets both maximum sentences.

Re the race accusation, would it have been a thing if it was a white player? Same offence, so why the race card?

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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville

Seems odd football has become united at such speed over animal welfare but can't do the same when boos are heard at taking a knee, monkey chants or bananas are thrown.

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By *oan of DArcCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

Re the race accusation, would it have been a thing if it was a white player? Same offence, so why the race card?"

The 'race card' was initially played by Chris Kirkland, a white football coach who said what zouma did is worse than racism.

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By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago

Chelmsford

He is French..

Is it it accepted in France?

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