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Transphobia

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

What is it with all the transphobia in these forums? Often a trans person opens a thread to discuss trans issues and the usual suspects butt in with pileons of transphobia. Their comments are deeply denigrating, yet they don't usually use explicit insulting language. Admins don't seem to do anything about it, and this goes on and on, to the point where it's impossible to keep a conversation on trans issues without the thread getting derailed. Most of the people on here seem totally fine, these are like 5-10 people that probably search for "trans" in the forums come in over and over. Blocking them doesn't block me seeing their barely veiled transphobia, and it gets very tiring.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

Threads of any sort , opened by anyone, get derailed....

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By *ysyphusMan
over a year ago

Starbase K-7


"Threads of any sort , opened by anyone, get derailed....

"

When they get derailed by hate, action should be taken.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Don’t be nasty to people. It’s not a hard concept to grasp so it shows the level of intelligence of those who can’t adhere to it.

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By *ecadent_DevonMan
over a year ago

Okehampton

I’ve not really noticed any, no more than people expressing views about single men, couples, single females, different ethnicities, BBWs, big boobs, small boobs and all boobs inbetween

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By *adyBugsWoman
over a year ago

cognito

I haven’t seen anything like that. As others said above, threads get hijacked all the time.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I haven’t came across it yet but I mainly stick to the lounge witch are good people

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Which threads, what remarks?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Unc0nscious bias. Everyone still has a long way to go, even those who are learning, adjusting their mindset to catch up with the modern world. None of it will be fixed in our lifetime, our childrens lifetime or our grandchildrens lifetime - but we are heading in the right direction.

Just know that people are changing the way they talk to be inclusive to all but even they mess up sometimes.

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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago

Travelling


"Threads of any sort , opened by anyone, get derailed....

When they get derailed by hate, action should be taken."

In a general sense, I'm not referring to any specific comments or threads, hate and disagreements often get muddied at times and mistaken.

Opposing sides make for discussion. A forum is generally a place for discussion. It's a great place to attempt to educate and learn of opposing sides.

Often you will find poor wording gets jumped on and pointed out as hate. For every hateful transphobic person on the forums there are many more ready to stand up to them. They are certainly the minority.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I disagree. I've seen lots of support for trans people in the forums and very little hate.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Unc0nscious bias. Everyone still has a long way to go, even those who are learning, adjusting their mindset to catch up with the modern world. None of it will be fixed in our lifetime, our childrens lifetime or our grandchildrens lifetime - but we are heading in the right direction.

Just know that people are changing the way they talk to be inclusive to all but even they mess up sometimes. "

Even though I say this, I've not seen any hate towards trans in the forum.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Which threads, what remarks?"

Well, yes. This.

I think this is probably the most friendly and welcoming forum for Trans people I’ve ever seen. If you do see any, report or or admin using the report function.

As others have said, forums inevitably give rise to differing views. Not all differing views are necessarily phobic, although I agree those that are have no place on here.

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By *etcplCouple
over a year ago

Gapping Fanny


"Threads of any sort , opened by anyone, get derailed....

"

Granny ate my hamster

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Green arrow and you’ll find the thread the OP means.

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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago

Dubai & Nottingham

People who say they haven’t come across it might want to look again at what transphobia actually means. It’s not just blatant hate, as with kink shaming it can be subtle , hidden behind preferences on threads where there is just no need to comment etc it’s all the same though

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By *etcplCouple
over a year ago

Gapping Fanny


"What is it with all the transphobia in these forums? Often a trans person opens a thread to discuss trans issues and the usual suspects butt in with pileons of transphobia. Their comments are deeply denigrating, yet they don't usually use explicit insulting language. Admins don't seem to do anything about it, and this goes on and on, to the point where it's impossible to keep a conversation on trans issues without the thread getting derailed. Most of the people on here seem totally fine, these are like 5-10 people that probably search for "trans" in the forums come in over and over. Blocking them doesn't block me seeing their barely veiled transphobia, and it gets very tiring."

I am sorry, I may not have noticed them but shitty behaviour should be called out where ever it is.

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By *ecadent_DevonMan
over a year ago

Okehampton

Its strange but the forums do go through extremes. At the moment you are a “man hater” or “woman hater” if you dare to voice a different hypothesis. I can’t imagine that there are many of those on fab, but the label gets flung around.

Mainly there are a bunch of frustrated people (mainly men, but look at the numbers) that lose their shit and have a rant or get clumsy with words, who are then branded “hater” which actually starts to create a self-fulfilling prophecy. Are there transphobic, racist, misandrist or misogynistic people on this site? Yes

As much as the words flung around?

No.

Transphobic for example is “fear of”. I doubt many people are scared of any people regardless of their sexual/gender persuasion

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Green arrow and you’ll find the thread the OP means. "

I saw the thread. Two people the OP took issue with and told them to STFU. It's not evidence of transphobia all over the forums.

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By *ecadent_DevonMan
over a year ago

Okehampton


"Green arrow and you’ll find the thread the OP means.

I saw the thread. Two people the OP took issue with and told them to STFU. It's not evidence of transphobia all over the forums. "

Somebody expressed their opinion about transgender people on a thread about a March against transgender people and got savaged and got accused of “wrongthink”

To be honest I think if you keep attacking someone they will respond, if you don’t like that response, that’s on you.

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By *he AmbassadorMan
over a year ago

IRLANDA. / Prague. / Cil Dara


"Its strange but the forums do go through extremes. At the moment you are a “man hater” or “woman hater” if you dare to voice a different hypothesis. I can’t imagine that there are many of those on fab, but the label gets flung around.

Mainly there are a bunch of frustrated people (mainly men, but look at the numbers) that lose their shit and have a rant or get clumsy with words, who are then branded “hater” which actually starts to create a self-fulfilling prophecy. Are there transphobic, racist, misandrist or misogynistic people on this site? Yes

As much as the words flung around?

No.

Transphobic for example is “fear of”. I doubt many people are scared of any people regardless of their sexual/gender persuasion "

clumsy with words,,,,

Thats a pretty lame and lazy excuse my man,,

And take that from someone who is a hyper type and send before I vet msg kinda guy, but funny enough I ain't getting tarred with a hater brush, so maybe these guys you speak of ain't word clumsy at all. Maybe they just have issues,

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By *ecadent_DevonMan
over a year ago

Okehampton


"Its strange but the forums do go through extremes. At the moment you are a “man hater” or “woman hater” if you dare to voice a different hypothesis. I can’t imagine that there are many of those on fab, but the label gets flung around.

Mainly there are a bunch of frustrated people (mainly men, but look at the numbers) that lose their shit and have a rant or get clumsy with words, who are then branded “hater” which actually starts to create a self-fulfilling prophecy. Are there transphobic, racist, misandrist or misogynistic people on this site? Yes

As much as the words flung around?

No.

Transphobic for example is “fear of”. I doubt many people are scared of any people regardless of their sexual/gender persuasion

clumsy with words,,,,

Thats a pretty lame and lazy excuse my man,,

And take that from someone who is a hyper type and send before I vet msg kinda guy, but funny enough I ain't getting tarred with a hater brush, so maybe these guys you speak of ain't word clumsy at all. Maybe they just have issues, "

I think we can all admit that we have been clumsy with words. For example. I am not “your man”

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Its strange but the forums do go through extremes. At the moment you are a “man hater” or “woman hater” if you dare to voice a different hypothesis. I can’t imagine that there are many of those on fab, but the label gets flung around.

Mainly there are a bunch of frustrated people (mainly men, but look at the numbers) that lose their shit and have a rant or get clumsy with words, who are then branded “hater” which actually starts to create a self-fulfilling prophecy. Are there transphobic, racist, misandrist or misogynistic people on this site? Yes

As much as the words flung around?

No.

Transphobic for example is “fear of”. I doubt many people are scared of any people regardless of their sexual/gender persuasion "

Transphobic isn't a fear of...

 (thread closed by moderator)

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By *ecadent_DevonMan
over a year ago

Okehampton


"Its strange but the forums do go through extremes. At the moment you are a “man hater” or “woman hater” if you dare to voice a different hypothesis. I can’t imagine that there are many of those on fab, but the label gets flung around.

Mainly there are a bunch of frustrated people (mainly men, but look at the numbers) that lose their shit and have a rant or get clumsy with words, who are then branded “hater” which actually starts to create a self-fulfilling prophecy. Are there transphobic, racist, misandrist or misogynistic people on this site? Yes

As much as the words flung around?

No.

Transphobic for example is “fear of”. I doubt many people are scared of any people regardless of their sexual/gender persuasion

Transphobic isn't a fear of...

"

Phobic. Coming from Phobia an extreme or irrational fear of or aversion to something

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By *he AmbassadorMan
over a year ago

IRLANDA. / Prague. / Cil Dara


"Its strange but the forums do go through extremes. At the moment you are a “man hater” or “woman hater” if you dare to voice a different hypothesis. I can’t imagine that there are many of those on fab, but the label gets flung around.

Mainly there are a bunch of frustrated people (mainly men, but look at the numbers) that lose their shit and have a rant or get clumsy with words, who are then branded “hater” which actually starts to create a self-fulfilling prophecy. Are there transphobic, racist, misandrist or misogynistic people on this site? Yes

As much as the words flung around?

No.

Transphobic for example is “fear of”. I doubt many people are scared of any people regardless of their sexual/gender persuasion

clumsy with words,,,,

Thats a pretty lame and lazy excuse my man,,

And take that from someone who is a hyper type and send before I vet msg kinda guy, but funny enough I ain't getting tarred with a hater brush, so maybe these guys you speak of ain't word clumsy at all. Maybe they just have issues,

I think we can all admit that we have been clumsy with words. For example. I am not “your man” "
I think WE can all agree that WE can leave WE out of this,,,

Maybe it boils down to you not being you when you are hungry,, get some Nuts my man and eat the bar, worth a try right.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Its strange but the forums do go through extremes. At the moment you are a “man hater” or “woman hater” if you dare to voice a different hypothesis. I can’t imagine that there are many of those on fab, but the label gets flung around.

Mainly there are a bunch of frustrated people (mainly men, but look at the numbers) that lose their shit and have a rant or get clumsy with words, who are then branded “hater” which actually starts to create a self-fulfilling prophecy. Are there transphobic, racist, misandrist or misogynistic people on this site? Yes

As much as the words flung around?

No.

Transphobic for example is “fear of”. I doubt many people are scared of any people regardless of their sexual/gender persuasion

Transphobic isn't a fear of...

Phobic. Coming from Phobia an extreme or irrational fear of or aversion to something "

That's the dictionary definition of phobic for sure but transphobic doesn't only mean fear of trans people. It also includes negativity, prejudice or dislike of trans people.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Green arrow and you’ll find the thread the OP means.

I saw the thread. Two people the OP took issue with and told them to STFU. It's not evidence of transphobia all over the forums. "

1) those two people where being deeply disrespectful, trolling, and hijacking the thread

2) this happens relativeky often in scottish forums, and every time there is a thread requesting the separation of tv from ts

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Green arrow and you’ll find the thread the OP means.

I saw the thread. Two people the OP took issue with and told them to STFU. It's not evidence of transphobia all over the forums.

1) those two people where being deeply disrespectful, trolling, and hijacking the thread

2) this happens relativeky often in scottish forums, and every time there is a thread requesting the separation of tv from ts"

I did read through that thread and from an objective viewpoint the man who you felt was disrespectful and trolling - he didn't put some things very diplomatically but he did not seem hateful.

And it read as though the other person had some history with you as you reacted negatively very quickly and I imagine that's because there's more going on that I'm not aware of? If there is a history of people making the same comments thread after thread - perhaps you could take this to admin? Sometimes it's a cumulative effect that has the most impact on us.

But it's two people and everyone else on the thread had many words of support for you. And elsewhere in the forum too. I've seen more calm discussion and questions answered here than anywhere else. And understanding of the issues trans people face.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Green arrow and you’ll find the thread the OP means.

I saw the thread. Two people the OP took issue with and told them to STFU. It's not evidence of transphobia all over the forums.

1) those two people where being deeply disrespectful, trolling, and hijacking the thread

2) this happens relativeky often in scottish forums, and every time there is a thread requesting the separation of tv from ts

I did read through that thread and from an objective viewpoint the man who you felt was disrespectful and trolling - he didn't put some things very diplomatically but he did not seem hateful.

And it read as though the other person had some history with you as you reacted negatively very quickly and I imagine that's because there's more going on that I'm not aware of? If there is a history of people making the same comments thread after thread - perhaps you could take this to admin? Sometimes it's a cumulative effect that has the most impact on us.

But it's two people and everyone else on the thread had many words of support for you. And elsewhere in the forum too. I've seen more calm discussion and questions answered here than anywhere else. And understanding of the issues trans people face. "

Yeah, it's mostly like 5-7 people, I have them all blocked. As you say, it's not always something they say in once single comment, it's the cumulative effect of having them come time and time again. This also makes it harder to report, because where do you point to?

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By *jorkishMan
over a year ago

Seaforth

I've seen very little overt trans phobia on these forums. Fab guys is far worse and I find the views expressed there disgusting

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Green arrow and you’ll find the thread the OP means.

I saw the thread. Two people the OP took issue with and told them to STFU. It's not evidence of transphobia all over the forums.

1) those two people where being deeply disrespectful, trolling, and hijacking the thread

2) this happens relativeky often in scottish forums, and every time there is a thread requesting the separation of tv from ts

I did read through that thread and from an objective viewpoint the man who you felt was disrespectful and trolling - he didn't put some things very diplomatically but he did not seem hateful.

And it read as though the other person had some history with you as you reacted negatively very quickly and I imagine that's because there's more going on that I'm not aware of? If there is a history of people making the same comments thread after thread - perhaps you could take this to admin? Sometimes it's a cumulative effect that has the most impact on us.

But it's two people and everyone else on the thread had many words of support for you. And elsewhere in the forum too. I've seen more calm discussion and questions answered here than anywhere else. And understanding of the issues trans people face.

Yeah, it's mostly like 5-7 people, I have them all blocked. As you say, it's not always something they say in once single comment, it's the cumulative effect of having them come time and time again. This also makes it harder to report, because where do you point to?"

I've seen before that admin ask certain people to not engage with each other. I'd report a comment from the most recent thread and ask that they consider the history. But...there always people who will challenge you here. As there are for many of us. It's training for Twitter!

I have questions about trans issues that I dare not ask because I might be accused of wrongthink and I don't want to upset people. Others may do as well. When it gets all shouty, I just think "I won't ask".

 (thread closed by moderator)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Green arrow and you’ll find the thread the OP means.

I saw the thread. Two people the OP took issue with and told them to STFU. It's not evidence of transphobia all over the forums.

1) those two people where being deeply disrespectful, trolling, and hijacking the thread

2) this happens relativeky often in scottish forums, and every time there is a thread requesting the separation of tv from ts"

That’s why I don’t post in the Scottish forums

I would stay away from it your more than welcome in the lounge

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Green arrow and you’ll find the thread the OP means.

I saw the thread. Two people the OP took issue with and told them to STFU. It's not evidence of transphobia all over the forums.

1) those two people where being deeply disrespectful, trolling, and hijacking the thread

2) this happens relativeky often in scottish forums, and every time there is a thread requesting the separation of tv from ts

I did read through that thread and from an objective viewpoint the man who you felt was disrespectful and trolling - he didn't put some things very diplomatically but he did not seem hateful.

And it read as though the other person had some history with you as you reacted negatively very quickly and I imagine that's because there's more going on that I'm not aware of? If there is a history of people making the same comments thread after thread - perhaps you could take this to admin? Sometimes it's a cumulative effect that has the most impact on us.

But it's two people and everyone else on the thread had many words of support for you. And elsewhere in the forum too. I've seen more calm discussion and questions answered here than anywhere else. And understanding of the issues trans people face.

Yeah, it's mostly like 5-7 people, I have them all blocked. As you say, it's not always something they say in once single comment, it's the cumulative effect of having them come time and time again. This also makes it harder to report, because where do you point to?

I've seen before that admin ask certain people to not engage with each other. I'd report a comment from the most recent thread and ask that they consider the history. But...there always people who will challenge you here. As there are for many of us. It's training for Twitter!

I have questions about trans issues that I dare not ask because I might be accused of wrongthink and I don't want to upset people. Others may do as well. When it gets all shouty, I just think "I won't ask". "

I think questions that are asked in an open non malicious way are totally fine. But I don't think being accused of wrongthink is that jarring, some people are accused of wronglive and here we are

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By *alandNitaCouple
over a year ago

Scunthorpe


"Threads of any sort , opened by anyone, get derailed....

When they get derailed by hate, action should be taken."

People should certainly report anything they feel is unacceptable.

There is no reason for anyone to be cruel or unpleasant to anybody...

Cal

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

I've not seen the particular posts you are talking about but I have definitely seen transphobia on the forums. Comments that would never be allowed elsewhere. People telling someone who is trans that they are a different gender to how they identify mostly. When challenged its all "I'm entitled to my opinion". It's very sad. I'm really sorry to anyone who has been on the receiving end.

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By *tephTV67TV/TS
over a year ago

Cheshire

I generally read every single forums post about the TV/TS community on this site. I find the majority of the posts will be supportive towards the Trans Women and Men on the site.

It generally gets heated when the separation of the TV/TS category discussion rears it’s head. Something, thanks to some of the Trans Women on the site, changed my opinion as a well thought out discussion can do this.

So I disagree Op, there’s more acceptance than negativity in my opinion and observations.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

I've just found the post. That was horrific. Transphobia and homophobia thrown in for good measure .

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By *yron69Man
over a year ago

Fareham

I only come here for the kind words and sensitivity.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Green arrow and you’ll find the thread the OP means.

I saw the thread. Two people the OP took issue with and told them to STFU. It's not evidence of transphobia all over the forums.

1) those two people where being deeply disrespectful, trolling, and hijacking the thread

2) this happens relativeky often in scottish forums, and every time there is a thread requesting the separation of tv from ts

I did read through that thread and from an objective viewpoint the man who you felt was disrespectful and trolling - he didn't put some things very diplomatically but he did not seem hateful.

And it read as though the other person had some history with you as you reacted negatively very quickly and I imagine that's because there's more going on that I'm not aware of? If there is a history of people making the same comments thread after thread - perhaps you could take this to admin? Sometimes it's a cumulative effect that has the most impact on us.

But it's two people and everyone else on the thread had many words of support for you. And elsewhere in the forum too. I've seen more calm discussion and questions answered here than anywhere else. And understanding of the issues trans people face.

Yeah, it's mostly like 5-7 people, I have them all blocked. As you say, it's not always something they say in once single comment, it's the cumulative effect of having them come time and time again. This also makes it harder to report, because where do you point to?

I've seen before that admin ask certain people to not engage with each other. I'd report a comment from the most recent thread and ask that they consider the history. But...there always people who will challenge you here. As there are for many of us. It's training for Twitter!

I have questions about trans issues that I dare not ask because I might be accused of wrongthink and I don't want to upset people. Others may do as well. When it gets all shouty, I just think "I won't ask".

I think questions that are asked in an open non malicious way are totally fine. But I don't think being accused of wrongthink is that jarring, some people are accused of wronglive and here we are "

I hope you'd never find that here.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What is it with all the transphobia in these forums? Often a trans person opens a thread to discuss trans issues and the usual suspects butt in with pileons of transphobia. Their comments are deeply denigrating, yet they don't usually use explicit insulting language. Admins don't seem to do anything about it, and this goes on and on, to the point where it's impossible to keep a conversation on trans issues without the thread getting derailed. Most of the people on here seem totally fine, these are like 5-10 people that probably search for "trans" in the forums come in over and over. Blocking them doesn't block me seeing their barely veiled transphobia, and it gets very tiring."

Sending support and strength OP

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport

The site and the forums are a lot better than when I first joined Fab, about five years ago. The first couple of years I was on here, I started threads about the Transgender Day of Remembrance (TDoR) in November. I was subjected to massive pile ons - telling me that I was excluding cis people, that it should be an everyones day of remembrance, that I was being hateful by claiming that trans people can get murdered just for being trans, that it doesn't happen here. I think I even remember one comment about "it must be their own fault". The third year I didn't write a thread about TDoR.

There has always been a massive row about using the terms "cis people", "cis gendered", "cis woman". In fact I'll give it less than an hour before before someone weighs in on it here. I won't bother doing the long explanation of exactly why "cis" is not offensive, anybody who thinks it is please go look it up. The internet is a wonderful source of information, please use it. Oh, and special prize goes to first person to say that they are not cis, they are just normal. But that's one argument that these days I just refuse to get drawn into.

It is quite interesting that by and large the forums are a lot better now, there does seem to be greater understanding and tolerance for trans people. Which is strange really, as over the same period the UK has very much descended into being a cesspool of trans ignorance and hatred, driven by hateful right wing media and government. Again there is no need for me to go into any details here, anybody that is unaware of this go do some research.

Yes, trans people are not all wonderful, kind and full of wisdom. We are just as varied as every other group of people you could select from humanity. Some trans people are mean, nasty, ignorant and full of spite. Similar to some people in any other group of humanity. Some trans people have mental health issues - mind you, when you get a section of society that includes all the powerful people in the country, repeatedly telling you that you are worthless and that you are a threat to everyone else (ref. "bathroom bills") then there is no wonder that a few of us might get a little bit unbalanced eventually.

It is somewhat upsetting when I read some of the posts above from cis people saying that they _never_ see any transphobia in the forums. This is exactly the same as white people saying that they see no evidence of racism. Racism exists, transphobia exists, but people who are not affected by it will see less of it.

And please can we have less of the linguistic nitpicking over the word "transphobia"? Yes, yes, we all know that "phobia" means an irrational fear of something, and that what we are talking about is actually "hatred of" not "fear of". I have yet to see a cis person being afraid of a trans person, but I've seen plenty of trans people that have bloody good reason to be afraid of cis people. The time when I was on a side street about 50 metres away from Canal Street in Manchester (the so called gay village, supposed safe haven for everyone with variant sexuality or gender) and I was surrounded by about 20 youths that thought it was fun to start shouting at a "tranny", I was bloody afraid. (I survived unharmed, but that's another story).

Let's just agree that the etymology of the word "transphobia" is a bit dodgy, but it is the word in common usage, and everyone that uses it does actually understand it, even when they pretend not to (mainly because of being transphobic...).

Another overlong rant from Polly, sorry everyone. It was just going to be a short note, but once you get me started... And I've written it now, so it would be a waste to not press the "Post Message" button.

Bottom line - yes there is _some_transphobia on the forums, but it's better than it used to be. I have hope that things will continue to improve; I have worries that things might get worse.

Peace and love to everyone, Polly xxx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I once had Trainsphobia. Especially when I was little and the Underground announcement of ‘Mind The Gap’ bleared out.

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport


"I once had Trainsphobia. Especially when I was little and the Underground announcement of ‘Mind The Gap’ bleared out. "

I feel that as a political trans woman I ought to start ranting about this trivialisation of the topic. But actually it did make me lol.

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London

Not to say OP is wrong in their feelings, but I think actually it's a lot better on here these days.

A few years ago there were 3-4 posters who would obsessively post about trans people and want to debate their validity constantly.

Thankfully I don't think any of them are here anymore.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"The site and the forums are a lot better than when I first joined Fab, about five years ago. The first couple of years I was on here, I started threads about the Transgender Day of Remembrance (TDoR) in November. I was subjected to massive pile ons - telling me that I was excluding cis people, that it should be an everyones day of remembrance, that I was being hateful by claiming that trans people can get murdered just for being trans, that it doesn't happen here. I think I even remember one comment about "it must be their own fault". The third year I didn't write a thread about TDoR.

There has always been a massive row about using the terms "cis people", "cis gendered", "cis woman". In fact I'll give it less than an hour before before someone weighs in on it here. I won't bother doing the long explanation of exactly why "cis" is not offensive, anybody who thinks it is please go look it up. The internet is a wonderful source of information, please use it. Oh, and special prize goes to first person to say that they are not cis, they are just normal. But that's one argument that these days I just refuse to get drawn into.

It is quite interesting that by and large the forums are a lot better now, there does seem to be greater understanding and tolerance for trans people. Which is strange really, as over the same period the UK has very much descended into being a cesspool of trans ignorance and hatred, driven by hateful right wing media and government. Again there is no need for me to go into any details here, anybody that is unaware of this go do some research.

Yes, trans people are not all wonderful, kind and full of wisdom. We are just as varied as every other group of people you could select from humanity. Some trans people are mean, nasty, ignorant and full of spite. Similar to some people in any other group of humanity. Some trans people have mental health issues - mind you, when you get a section of society that includes all the powerful people in the country, repeatedly telling you that you are worthless and that you are a threat to everyone else (ref. "bathroom bills") then there is no wonder that a few of us might get a little bit unbalanced eventually.

It is somewhat upsetting when I read some of the posts above from cis people saying that they _never_ see any transphobia in the forums. This is exactly the same as white people saying that they see no evidence of racism. Racism exists, transphobia exists, but people who are not affected by it will see less of it.

And please can we have less of the linguistic nitpicking over the word "transphobia"? Yes, yes, we all know that "phobia" means an irrational fear of something, and that what we are talking about is actually "hatred of" not "fear of". I have yet to see a cis person being afraid of a trans person, but I've seen plenty of trans people that have bloody good reason to be afraid of cis people. The time when I was on a side street about 50 metres away from Canal Street in Manchester (the so called gay village, supposed safe haven for everyone with variant sexuality or gender) and I was surrounded by about 20 youths that thought it was fun to start shouting at a "tranny", I was bloody afraid. (I survived unharmed, but that's another story).

Let's just agree that the etymology of the word "transphobia" is a bit dodgy, but it is the word in common usage, and everyone that uses it does actually understand it, even when they pretend not to (mainly because of being transphobic...).

Another overlong rant from Polly, sorry everyone. It was just going to be a short note, but once you get me started... And I've written it now, so it would be a waste to not press the "Post Message" button.

Bottom line - yes there is _some_transphobia on the forums, but it's better than it used to be. I have hope that things will continue to improve; I have worries that things might get worse.

Peace and love to everyone, Polly xxx"

Thanks for this, it's useful to have some perspective. I have the feeling that overall people on here are pretty awesome, but there exist pockets of hatred, and the mods are not too keen on taking action against them, I suspect they don't want to be "polemic" and they hope they will die out by themselves.

Personally I feel conflicted about addressing transphobic comments. If you do, the thread gets derailed and they have somewhat succeeded in their intentions, if you don't then we normalise these comments. Ideally the mods would remove them, so to not to foster such an environment.

Anyway, thanks for the good vibes xxx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The site and the forums are a lot better than when I first joined Fab, about five years ago. The first couple of years I was on here, I started threads about the Transgender Day of Remembrance (TDoR) in November. I was subjected to massive pile ons - telling me that I was excluding cis people, that it should be an everyones day of remembrance, that I was being hateful by claiming that trans people can get murdered just for being trans, that it doesn't happen here. I think I even remember one comment about "it must be their own fault". The third year I didn't write a thread about TDoR.

There has always been a massive row about using the terms "cis people", "cis gendered", "cis woman". In fact I'll give it less than an hour before before someone weighs in on it here. I won't bother doing the long explanation of exactly why "cis" is not offensive, anybody who thinks it is please go look it up. The internet is a wonderful source of information, please use it. Oh, and special prize goes to first person to say that they are not cis, they are just normal. But that's one argument that these days I just refuse to get drawn into.

It is quite interesting that by and large the forums are a lot better now, there does seem to be greater understanding and tolerance for trans people. Which is strange really, as over the same period the UK has very much descended into being a cesspool of trans ignorance and hatred, driven by hateful right wing media and government. Again there is no need for me to go into any details here, anybody that is unaware of this go do some research.

Yes, trans people are not all wonderful, kind and full of wisdom. We are just as varied as every other group of people you could select from humanity. Some trans people are mean, nasty, ignorant and full of spite. Similar to some people in any other group of humanity. Some trans people have mental health issues - mind you, when you get a section of society that includes all the powerful people in the country, repeatedly telling you that you are worthless and that you are a threat to everyone else (ref. "bathroom bills") then there is no wonder that a few of us might get a little bit unbalanced eventually.

It is somewhat upsetting when I read some of the posts above from cis people saying that they _never_ see any transphobia in the forums. This is exactly the same as white people saying that they see no evidence of racism. Racism exists, transphobia exists, but people who are not affected by it will see less of it.

And please can we have less of the linguistic nitpicking over the word "transphobia"? Yes, yes, we all know that "phobia" means an irrational fear of something, and that what we are talking about is actually "hatred of" not "fear of". I have yet to see a cis person being afraid of a trans person, but I've seen plenty of trans people that have bloody good reason to be afraid of cis people. The time when I was on a side street about 50 metres away from Canal Street in Manchester (the so called gay village, supposed safe haven for everyone with variant sexuality or gender) and I was surrounded by about 20 youths that thought it was fun to start shouting at a "tranny", I was bloody afraid. (I survived unharmed, but that's another story).

Let's just agree that the etymology of the word "transphobia" is a bit dodgy, but it is the word in common usage, and everyone that uses it does actually understand it, even when they pretend not to (mainly because of being transphobic...).

Another overlong rant from Polly, sorry everyone. It was just going to be a short note, but once you get me started... And I've written it now, so it would be a waste to not press the "Post Message" button.

Bottom line - yes there is _some_transphobia on the forums, but it's better than it used to be. I have hope that things will continue to improve; I have worries that things might get worse.

Peace and love to everyone, Polly xxx"

Thank you Polly.

I especially liked the reference to white people saying they see no evidence of racism; you don’t tend to notice what doesn’t affect you.

This site has improved a lot of the ten years I’ve been here.

I’ll never forget the response I got to my first ever thread describing what it was like to be someone like us…. So many people said thank you for posting it. They’d never understood before.

I got so many vile private messages though.

 (thread closed by moderator)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I once had Trainsphobia. Especially when I was little and the Underground announcement of ‘Mind The Gap’ bleared out.

I feel that as a political trans woman I ought to start ranting about this trivialisation of the topic. But actually it did make me lol. "

It was serious. Not trivial at all. The fear of falling into a big dark gap! The District line was the worst. Pretty much had to be an expert in the long jump. Wait.... hang on a minute..... I’ve got the wrong forum page again haven’t I?

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross


"Threads of any sort , opened by anyone, get derailed....

Granny ate my hamster"

It was tough ......

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By *ust RachelTV/TS
over a year ago

Horsham

It was documented on several online sites, when Brexit started there was a decline in acceptance on the trans, gay, etc. Not just the expected racism side of things.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm definitely not transphobic or homophobic for that matter. I have nothing against TV/TS, gay or bi men. In fact I get on very well with them as I speak to them when I'm in the club which we go to. We are all people at the end of the day. Some of my friends are TV or TS. I've always accepted people for who they are. I agree that the Scottish forum has got bad for the trolling and just outright nastiness. One of the reasons why I barely comment on there now x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Straight pubs is transphobias play ground.

Stares and name calls exist in these main stream places.

But not as much as the year 2000. So personally an improved situation has occurred.

Sites like these provides a safe home for us that trans...

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

For another example of what happens, check out the end of thise thread

https://m.fabswingers.com/forum/lounge/1263130

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There certainly is a lot of intolerance in this, and the other thread.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The unfortunate but simple answer is "because it is allowed".

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"For another example of what happens, check out the end of thise thread

https://m.fabswingers.com/forum/lounge/1263130"

I reported that thread. It was a pile on.

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By *inda May SimmonsTV/TS
over a year ago

hexham

Hang on!

Once again a thread about the trans experience and how we are always overlooked, shot down, side lined.

I started dressing before a lot of people on here were born!

The whole trans spectrum is accepted massively these days. Way beyond what I would consider more important issues.

I saw a report today about how difficult it is for blind people to travel by air.

Now that must be a nightmare! About time some of us girls pulled ourselves out of our own arseholes and looked at the big picture ?

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By *itzi999Woman
over a year ago

Slough


"There certainly is a lot of intolerance in this, and the other thread."

This

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Hang on!

Once again a thread about the trans experience and how we are always overlooked, shot down, side lined.

I started dressing before a lot of people on here were born!

The whole trans spectrum is accepted massively these days. Way beyond what I would consider more important issues.

I saw a report today about how difficult it is for blind people to travel by air.

Now that must be a nightmare! About time some of us girls pulled ourselves out of our own arseholes and looked at the big picture ? "

With all due respect, you are not trans, and the trans experience is so much more than "dressing". It's dealing with healthcare, work discrimination, the administration, discrimination on the street, being estranged from your family and friends.

Not that there aren't other things, but picturing it as "trans people have it good enough" is a bit ridiculous.

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By *yron69Man
over a year ago

Fareham

You get nasty views on all posts . I can’t say I’ve seen much transophobia. I’m sure some guys aren’t into it and often bluntly imply so.

We must allow free speech and be clear where hate begins.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Hang on!

Once again a thread about the trans experience and how we are always overlooked, shot down, side lined.

I started dressing before a lot of people on here were born!

The whole trans spectrum is accepted massively these days. Way beyond what I would consider more important issues.

I saw a report today about how difficult it is for blind people to travel by air.

Now that must be a nightmare! About time some of us girls pulled ourselves out of our own arseholes and looked at the big picture ?

With all due respect, you are not trans, and the trans experience is so much more than "dressing". It's dealing with healthcare, work discrimination, the administration, discrimination on the street, being estranged from your family and friends.

Not that there aren't other things, but picturing it as "trans people have it good enough" is a bit ridiculous."

I got to agree with this, it is deeper than just dressing up, which I find very on a surface level. Clothes are just clothes, that’s it.

And let’s not mentioned the money problem, and the surgery involved, which isn’t an easy ride either (both monetarily and pain/risk wise)

Proper transitioning isn’t an easy ride, like some of y’all may think. (Some have it easier some have it tougher, but easy that ain’t)

X

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By *atcherwankerMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

Aren't you lucky that you have all these cis people here to tell you that the transphobia you've experienced doesn't exist. It must be a huge weight off your mind.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Aren't you lucky that you have all these cis people here to tell you that the transphobia you've experienced doesn't exist. It must be a huge weight off your mind."

As per usual…. Or how it isn’t that bad overall x

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By *atcherwankerMan
over a year ago

Birmingham


"Aren't you lucky that you have all these cis people here to tell you that the transphobia you've experienced doesn't exist. It must be a huge weight off your mind.

As per usual…. Or how it isn’t that bad overall x "

"Some people are nice to you, so the nasty ones don't count"

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central


"You get nasty views on all posts . I can’t say I’ve seen much transophobia. I’m sure some guys aren’t into it and often bluntly imply so.

We must allow free speech and be clear where hate begins."

And stop it, completely of course

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By *yron69Man
over a year ago

Fareham

Tbh I think it will be years if ever to clear the dusty areas of the internet of perceived hate.

I have experienced many a troll and they have all the time in the world to express their inner rage. To be honest if they’re not hurling bricks through your window just ignore their windy bits of espace. It’s like not reading the walls of your local public toilet.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I've seen very little overt trans phobia on these forums. Fab guys is far worse and I find the views expressed there disgusting "

Fabguys is so so so so much worse tbh. constant threaads about if we should even be allowed on the site

I have only had couple of issues on these forums. But i have a thick skin and just laugh mostly

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I've seen very little overt trans phobia on these forums. Fab guys is far worse and I find the views expressed there disgusting

Fabguys is so so so so much worse tbh. constant threaads about if we should even be allowed on the site

I have only had couple of issues on these forums. But i have a thick skin and just laugh mostly"

I've said it before and I'll say it again, (some) gay men are some of the most intolerant people I know - the internalised homophobia and transphobia you see on gay hook up sites is quite astounding

Unless you fit their very narrow version of what gay or trans looks like, you are nothing

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I've seen very little overt trans phobia on these forums. Fab guys is far worse and I find the views expressed there disgusting

Fabguys is so so so so much worse tbh. constant threaads about if we should even be allowed on the site

I have only had couple of issues on these forums. But i have a thick skin and just laugh mostly

I've said it before and I'll say it again, (some) gay men are some of the most intolerant people I know - the internalised homophobia and transphobia you see on gay hook up sites is quite astounding

Unless you fit their very narrow version of what gay or trans looks like, you are nothing "

A gay man is an adult male homosexual. That's quite a wide demographic I think although it doesn't extend to people with vaginas which, IMHO, as a person with a vagina, is entirely reasonable.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I've seen very little overt trans phobia on these forums. Fab guys is far worse and I find the views expressed there disgusting

Fabguys is so so so so much worse tbh. constant threaads about if we should even be allowed on the site

I have only had couple of issues on these forums. But i have a thick skin and just laugh mostly

I've said it before and I'll say it again, (some) gay men are some of the most intolerant people I know - the internalised homophobia and transphobia you see on gay hook up sites is quite astounding

Unless you fit their very narrow version of what gay or trans looks like, you are nothing "

But I'll take your point about some being intolerant. I've heard stories of extreme misogyny in some circles and references to women as "fish".

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"A gay man is an adult male homosexual. That's quite a wide demographic I think although it doesn't extend to people with vaginas which, IMHO, as a person with a vagina, is entirely reasonable."

What about all the men with vaginas? Or, without penises?

Even if you don't count trans people (and you should), there are millions of people out there that don't physically conform to all the aspects of either gender.

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By *inda May SimmonsTV/TS
over a year ago

hexham


"Hang on!

Once again a thread about the trans experience and how we are always overlooked, shot down, side lined.

I started dressing before a lot of people on here were born!

The whole trans spectrum is accepted massively these days. Way beyond what I would consider more important issues.

I saw a report today about how difficult it is for blind people to travel by air.

Now that must be a nightmare! About time some of us girls pulled ourselves out of our own arseholes and looked at the big picture ?

With all due respect, you are not trans, and the trans experience is so much more than "dressing". It's dealing with healthcare, work discrimination, the administration, discrimination on the street, being estranged from your family and friends.

Not that there aren't other things, but picturing it as "trans people have it good enough" is a bit ridiculous."

I beg to differ, I am trans… I am transvestite!

Ok maybe not as premier league as transgenders seem to consider themselves, but equally as valid and with, different, but equally as important needs… I would suggest, or are you trying to say you are more important than me because your needs and differences are more diverse than mine?

Then where does that leave straight men and women ?

Come on !! Everyone is great really

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I've seen very little overt trans phobia on these forums. Fab guys is far worse and I find the views expressed there disgusting

Fabguys is so so so so much worse tbh. constant threaads about if we should even be allowed on the site

I have only had couple of issues on these forums. But i have a thick skin and just laugh mostly

I've said it before and I'll say it again, (some) gay men are some of the most intolerant people I know - the internalised homophobia and transphobia you see on gay hook up sites is quite astounding

Unless you fit their very narrow version of what gay or trans looks like, you are nothing

A gay man is an adult male homosexual. That's quite a wide demographic I think although it doesn't extend to people with vaginas which, IMHO, as a person with a vagina, is entirely reasonable."

You've lost me a bit

The reference was to Fab guys, therefore I assumed that it was gay & bi men who were guilty of the transphobia experienced - as opposed to trans or tv/ts folk

My point was that because gay & bi guys don't fit the heteronormative standard that they might perhaps be more understanding of another persons sex, gender or sexuality

Quite often, they aren't

They are so self absorbed in their own version of what gay and trans is, they don't open their eyes to other peoples versions

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Hang on!

Once again a thread about the trans experience and how we are always overlooked, shot down, side lined.

I started dressing before a lot of people on here were born!

The whole trans spectrum is accepted massively these days. Way beyond what I would consider more important issues.

I saw a report today about how difficult it is for blind people to travel by air.

Now that must be a nightmare! About time some of us girls pulled ourselves out of our own arseholes and looked at the big picture ?

With all due respect, you are not trans, and the trans experience is so much more than "dressing". It's dealing with healthcare, work discrimination, the administration, discrimination on the street, being estranged from your family and friends.

Not that there aren't other things, but picturing it as "trans people have it good enough" is a bit ridiculous.

I beg to differ, I am trans… I am transvestite!

Ok maybe not as premier league as transgenders seem to consider themselves, but equally as valid and with, different, but equally as important needs… I would suggest, or are you trying to say you are more important than me because your needs and differences are more diverse than mine?

Then where does that leave straight men and women ?

Come on !! Everyone is great really "

"fuck you, got mine"

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By *inda May SimmonsTV/TS
over a year ago

hexham


"Hang on!

Once again a thread about the trans experience and how we are always overlooked, shot down, side lined.

I started dressing before a lot of people on here were born!

The whole trans spectrum is accepted massively these days. Way beyond what I would consider more important issues.

I saw a report today about how difficult it is for blind people to travel by air.

Now that must be a nightmare! About time some of us girls pulled ourselves out of our own arseholes and looked at the big picture ?

With all due respect, you are not trans, and the trans experience is so much more than "dressing". It's dealing with healthcare, work discrimination, the administration, discrimination on the street, being estranged from your family and friends.

Not that there aren't other things, but picturing it as "trans people have it good enough" is a bit ridiculous.

I beg to differ, I am trans… I am transvestite!

Ok maybe not as premier league as transgenders seem to consider themselves, but equally as valid and with, different, but equally as important needs… I would suggest, or are you trying to say you are more important than me because your needs and differences are more diverse than mine?

Then where does that leave straight men and women ?

Come on !! Everyone is great really

"fuck you, got mine""

Sorry? Not quite sure what this last bit means?

 (thread closed by moderator)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Hang on!

Once again a thread about the trans experience and how we are always overlooked, shot down, side lined.

I started dressing before a lot of people on here were born!

The whole trans spectrum is accepted massively these days. Way beyond what I would consider more important issues.

I saw a report today about how difficult it is for blind people to travel by air.

Now that must be a nightmare! About time some of us girls pulled ourselves out of our own arseholes and looked at the big picture ?

With all due respect, you are not trans, and the trans experience is so much more than "dressing". It's dealing with healthcare, work discrimination, the administration, discrimination on the street, being estranged from your family and friends.

Not that there aren't other things, but picturing it as "trans people have it good enough" is a bit ridiculous.

I beg to differ, I am trans… I am transvestite!

Ok maybe not as premier league as transgenders seem to consider themselves, but equally as valid and with, different, but equally as important needs… I would suggest, or are you trying to say you are more important than me because your needs and differences are more diverse than mine?

Then where does that leave straight men and women ?

Come on !! Everyone is great really "

The sad thing is it has turned into a Premier League.

The average person in the street couldn't tell the difference between you, a transvestite, and a transwoman. So, if there was any malicious intent, you'd be at just as much risk as the TW.

But we can't admit that.

Cause they're special.

 (thread closed by moderator)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Hang on!

Once again a thread about the trans experience and how we are always overlooked, shot down, side lined.

I started dressing before a lot of people on here were born!

The whole trans spectrum is accepted massively these days. Way beyond what I would consider more important issues.

I saw a report today about how difficult it is for blind people to travel by air.

Now that must be a nightmare! About time some of us girls pulled ourselves out of our own arseholes and looked at the big picture ?

With all due respect, you are not trans, and the trans experience is so much more than "dressing". It's dealing with healthcare, work discrimination, the administration, discrimination on the street, being estranged from your family and friends.

Not that there aren't other things, but picturing it as "trans people have it good enough" is a bit ridiculous.

I beg to differ, I am trans… I am transvestite!

Ok maybe not as premier league as transgenders seem to consider themselves, but equally as valid and with, different, but equally as important needs… I would suggest, or are you trying to say you are more important than me because your needs and differences are more diverse than mine?

Then where does that leave straight men and women ?

Come on !! Everyone is great really

The sad thing is it has turned into a Premier League.

The average person in the street couldn't tell the difference between you, a transvestite, and a transwoman. So, if there was any malicious intent, you'd be at just as much risk as the TW.

But we can't admit that.

Cause they're special."

I agree with this.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think it's good to keep talking. If we hide or ban certain comments then it can't be discussed. Discussion can sometimes lead to people learning new things and perhaps changing their attitudes.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Hang on!

Once again a thread about the trans experience and how we are always overlooked, shot down, side lined.

I started dressing before a lot of people on here were born!

The whole trans spectrum is accepted massively these days. Way beyond what I would consider more important issues.

I saw a report today about how difficult it is for blind people to travel by air.

Now that must be a nightmare! About time some of us girls pulled ourselves out of our own arseholes and looked at the big picture ?

With all due respect, you are not trans, and the trans experience is so much more than "dressing". It's dealing with healthcare, work discrimination, the administration, discrimination on the street, being estranged from your family and friends.

Not that there aren't other things, but picturing it as "trans people have it good enough" is a bit ridiculous.

I beg to differ, I am trans… I am transvestite!

Ok maybe not as premier league as transgenders seem to consider themselves, but equally as valid and with, different, but equally as important needs… I would suggest, or are you trying to say you are more important than me because your needs and differences are more diverse than mine?

Then where does that leave straight men and women ?

Come on !! Everyone is great really "

You said that "the whole trans spectrum" is massively accepted these days. Thta trans people have it easy nowadays. I am saying that that is not the case and listing examples of why that is not the case. At no point did I say you are in any way less.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"A gay man is an adult male homosexual. That's quite a wide demographic I think although it doesn't extend to people with vaginas which, IMHO, as a person with a vagina, is entirely reasonable.

What about all the men with vaginas? Or, without penises?

Even if you don't count trans people (and you should), there are millions of people out there that don't physically conform to all the aspects of either gender.

Men don't have vaginas.

Not all men have penises. But only men can have penises."

This is overt transphobia amd should not be allowed on these forums. I am a woman and I am recognised as such in the UK. I have a dick. Get over it. Admins should not allow this kind of behaviour.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I think it's good to keep talking. If we hide or ban certain comments then it can't be discussed. Discussion can sometimes lead to people learning new things and perhaps changing their attitudes. "

There is no discussion happening, there is no compromise that can be reached. Transohobes insist that I am not a woman and that I shouldn't socially be treated as such. How could I ever reach a compromise with such a position. I just want to get on woth my day and they want to make it impossible for me to do so. What's the middleground there?

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By *inda May SimmonsTV/TS
over a year ago

hexham


"Hang on!

Once again a thread about the trans experience and how we are always overlooked, shot down, side lined.

I started dressing before a lot of people on here were born!

The whole trans spectrum is accepted massively these days. Way beyond what I would consider more important issues.

I saw a report today about how difficult it is for blind people to travel by air.

Now that must be a nightmare! About time some of us girls pulled ourselves out of our own arseholes and looked at the big picture ?

With all due respect, you are not trans, and the trans experience is so much more than "dressing". It's dealing with healthcare, work discrimination, the administration, discrimination on the street, being estranged from your family and friends.

Not that there aren't other things, but picturing it as "trans people have it good enough" is a bit ridiculous.

I beg to differ, I am trans… I am transvestite!

Ok maybe not as premier league as transgenders seem to consider themselves, but equally as valid and with, different, but equally as important needs… I would suggest, or are you trying to say you are more important than me because your needs and differences are more diverse than mine?

Then where does that leave straight men and women ?

Come on !! Everyone is great really

You said that "the whole trans spectrum" is massively accepted these days. Thta trans people have it easy nowadays. I am saying that that is not the case and listing examples of why that is not the case. At no point did I say you are in any way less."

Oh please do not misunderstand, or indeed misquote me.

I did not say that trans people have it easy these days!

No, no, no!

I don’t think they do. I have seen how difficult it has been for friends of mine to transition and I have great sympathy as well as great respect for the bravery they have shown.

What I would say is that most people have come a million miles in accepting the trans community and I am often humbled by the respect shown to me by straight guys and girls.

I just think most people are pretty brilliant these days

Mind I have been on the receiving end of two knife assaults and a good gang kicking by guys who didn’t appreciate my dress sense, so yes things could be better!

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford


"A gay man is an adult male homosexual. That's quite a wide demographic I think although it doesn't extend to people with vaginas which, IMHO, as a person with a vagina, is entirely reasonable.

What about all the men with vaginas? Or, without penises?

Even if you don't count trans people (and you should), there are millions of people out there that don't physically conform to all the aspects of either gender.

Men don't have vaginas.

Not all men have penises. But only men can have penises."

Wrong! X

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I've seen very little overt trans phobia on these forums. Fab guys is far worse and I find the views expressed there disgusting

Fabguys is so so so so much worse tbh. constant threaads about if we should even be allowed on the site

I have only had couple of issues on these forums. But i have a thick skin and just laugh mostly

I've said it before and I'll say it again, (some) gay men are some of the most intolerant people I know - the internalised homophobia and transphobia you see on gay hook up sites is quite astounding

Unless you fit their very narrow version of what gay or trans looks like, you are nothing "

I agree, I’ve experienced some huge intolerance from some gay individuals, which is mind boggling.

There seems to be this total mysoginy or hate for anything that is feminine, while hyper masculinity is idolised. It’s so odd

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford


"A gay man is an adult male homosexual. That's quite a wide demographic I think although it doesn't extend to people with vaginas which, IMHO, as a person with a vagina, is entirely reasonable.

What about all the men with vaginas? Or, without penises?

Even if you don't count trans people (and you should), there are millions of people out there that don't physically conform to all the aspects of either gender.

Men don't have vaginas.

Not all men have penises. But only men can have penises.

This is overt transphobia amd should not be allowed on these forums. I am a woman and I am recognised as such in the UK. I have a dick. Get over it. Admins should not allow this kind of behaviour."

Agreed x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"A gay man is an adult male homosexual. That's quite a wide demographic I think although it doesn't extend to people with vaginas which, IMHO, as a person with a vagina, is entirely reasonable.

What about all the men with vaginas? Or, without penises?

Even if you don't count trans people (and you should), there are millions of people out there that don't physically conform to all the aspects of either gender.

Men don't have vaginas.

Not all men have penises. But only men can have penises."

But what about all the well-documented evidence to the contrary? Again, even if you ignore trans people - reality just doesn't fit that world-view.

You might as well be insisting that all cars have gearsticks.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I've seen very little overt trans phobia on these forums. Fab guys is far worse and I find the views expressed there disgusting

Fabguys is so so so so much worse tbh. constant threaads about if we should even be allowed on the site

I have only had couple of issues on these forums. But i have a thick skin and just laugh mostly

I've said it before and I'll say it again, (some) gay men are some of the most intolerant people I know - the internalised homophobia and transphobia you see on gay hook up sites is quite astounding

Unless you fit their very narrow version of what gay or trans looks like, you are nothing

I agree, I’ve experienced some huge intolerance from some gay individuals, which is mind boggling.

There seems to be this total mysoginy or hate for anything that is feminine, while hyper masculinity is idolised. It’s so odd "

I just assume they are jealous we take their guys xD

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 07/02/22 13:02:15]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I mean, they do love the whole “turning a straight guy” scenario…. So much to the point that the term straight acting was created.

What . The . Fuck.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Some of it is nasty but I think alot of it is just ignorance.

Possibly even fear of something they haven't tried to understand.

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By *lutonicMan
over a year ago

Leicester


"What is it with all the transphobia in these forums? Often a trans person opens a thread to discuss trans issues and the usual suspects butt in with pileons of transphobia. Their comments are deeply denigrating, yet they don't usually use explicit insulting language. Admins don't seem to do anything about it, and this goes on and on, to the point where it's impossible to keep a conversation on trans issues without the thread getting derailed. Most of the people on here seem totally fine, these are like 5-10 people that probably search for "trans" in the forums come in over and over. Blocking them doesn't block me seeing their barely veiled transphobia, and it gets very tiring."
I'm my view there will always be sone form if denigrating,phobic, xenophobic, bigotry simply you get people who DO NOT understand or get it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I've seen very little overt trans phobia on these forums. Fab guys is far worse and I find the views expressed there disgusting

Fabguys is so so so so much worse tbh. constant threaads about if we should even be allowed on the site

I have only had couple of issues on these forums. But i have a thick skin and just laugh mostly

I've said it before and I'll say it again, (some) gay men are some of the most intolerant people I know - the internalised homophobia and transphobia you see on gay hook up sites is quite astounding

Unless you fit their very narrow version of what gay or trans looks like, you are nothing

I agree, I’ve experienced some huge intolerance from some gay individuals, which is mind boggling.

There seems to be this total mysoginy or hate for anything that is feminine, while hyper masculinity is idolised. It’s so odd "

I think many don't see the differential between dressing and being trans

They all get lumped into the same pot

I am ashamed to admit that I once held that kind of mindset too

It is being here for 10 years and being educated by people (like you Kylie) that has stopped that thinking and sent me hurtling in the right direction to the degree now where I am probably a bit too defensive of trans people

It is kind of what I was saying to you in PM yesterday Kylie about being authentic and true - it is so hopeful in educating the ignorant and the naive. It is helpful.

Like Outsider said up there somewhere, keeping the discussion open is key to educating and changing minds

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