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"If I have, it's far in the past and a faded memory " That's probably best. I still lie awake cringing sometimes.  | |||
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"Definitely have  "What made you do it? I felt like (the much younger) guy would just feel so bad about himself if I backed out. | |||
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"She was clearly attracted to me and had said how long it had been since she had sex. I really didn’t fancy her but felt for her. It was t a great idea in hindsight but felt obliged "It's not a great way to start an interlude is it - feeling obliged.  | |||
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"If I can't get her to pity fuck me I do use guilt, yes. " | |||
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"Definitely have
What made you do it? I felt like (the much younger) guy would just feel so bad about himself if I backed out. "Just be reassured that your obviously a nice and caring person. A rare commodity these days. X | |||
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"No. I just couldn't do it x" I walked myself into a stupid situation and the only way out was be horrible to someone and make them feel awful or suck it up. So I sucked it up (literally). | |||
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"Definitely have
What made you do it? I felt like (the much younger) guy would just feel so bad about himself if I backed out. "I'm really hoping for your sake this wasn't a recent thing. | |||
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"Yep. A few years ago now. A good few years ago. I did it because I was tipsy, he had had a recent bad break up and I was young. Daft. Thought I could comfort him with my vagina and be a good friend. Bad idea. " Sorry, Meli. | |||
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"Not at all. Much nether to feel your heart racing and things stirring cos you really wanna taste what’s in offer "Of course, that's how it should be. Instead I just wanted it over with as fast as possible. | |||
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"I’ve only done it within a relationship. The fact that he knew me so well but didn’t pick up on/care that I was just going through the motions made it even worse. " It feels like they should definitely notice that. I do know what you mean as I've done it in a relationship too rather than cause a scene. Or get more hassle from him. Shit isn't it . I hope you're out of that? | |||
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"Yep. A few years ago now. A good few years ago. I did it because I was tipsy, he had had a recent bad break up and I was young. Daft. Thought I could comfort him with my vagina and be a good friend. Bad idea. Sorry, Meli. "Oh it was ages ago now! Over a decade. We're good friends now and able to laugh about it. Sorry that you've had a crap experience, not good at all, x | |||
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"Definitely have
What made you do it? I felt like (the much younger) guy would just feel so bad about himself if I backed out.
Just be reassured that your obviously a nice and caring person. A rare commodity these days. X"Ah I don't know about that but thank you very much  | |||
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"Most definitely. It comes from a good place and wanting to help someone feel good about themselves. " Yes. The thought of making someone's face drop in disappointment and rejection is ..too much. | |||
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"Definitely have
What made you do it? I felt like (the much younger) guy would just feel so bad about himself if I backed out.
I'm really hoping for your sake this wasn't a recent thing. "A couple of years ago. Still should have known better. | |||
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 lol still looking for my first verification lol | |||
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"Yeah xx"How'd you feel? Is it well in the past now? | |||
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"Any one local to Southampton want to pity fuck me lol still looking for my first verification lol"Read the room... | |||
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"I've had a couple of instances where I've invited someone round on the spur of the moment, not found them attractive, they've wanted to take it further, and I've just gone along with it, out of guilt. The neurotic side of my brain thinking that I sort of owed it to them, as I agreed to the meet, even though it was always a 'no expectations' kind of arrangement." We let guilt control far too much, don't we? Feeling as though we owe people sex - if a friend said it, we'd call it out! Whether a hookup or a relationship - no-one is ever owed sex. | |||
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"Definitely have
What made you do it? I felt like (the much younger) guy would just feel so bad about himself if I backed out.
I'm really hoping for your sake this wasn't a recent thing.
A couple of years ago. Still should have known better. "Yes, you should. I don't know why people do things like this when they know they won't feel good about themselves afterwards | |||
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"Yep. A few years ago now. A good few years ago. I did it because I was tipsy, he had had a recent bad break up and I was young. Daft. Thought I could comfort him with my vagina and be a good friend. Bad idea. Sorry, Meli.
Oh it was ages ago now! Over a decade. We're good friends now and able to laugh about it. Sorry that you've had a crap experience, not good at all, x "Oh that's a nice ending  It wasn't great but it was a while ago now. I got to thinking about it when a thread here mentioned pity fucks today. | |||
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"Definitely have
What made you do it? I felt like (the much younger) guy would just feel so bad about himself if I backed out.
I'm really hoping for your sake this wasn't a recent thing.
A couple of years ago. Still should have known better.
Yes, you should.
I don't know why people do things like this when they know they won't feel good about themselves afterwards "Cheers for that | |||
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"I do this, although I call it more sex therapy. I don’t like the derogatory term ‘pity sex’ , however, it’s understandably the same thing. Sometimes a good session is all a girl needs to get her confidence back. To get back in the game. They know what it is and have to assure me they understand what I’m doing for them. Or I won’t use that tool." Sex therapy? Not familiar with that approach. Do you feel attracted to the girls you do this with? | |||
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"I’ve not done it. Not something I could tbh " Keep great personal boundaries and hopefully you never will 
Unfortunately a not very good LTR - no, fuck it, call it what it was - an abusive LTR left me with rubbish boundaries. And I think this is what it comes down to. | |||
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"I do this, although I call it more sex therapy. I don’t like the derogatory term ‘pity sex’ , however, it’s understandably the same thing. Sometimes a good session is all a girl needs to get her confidence back. To get back in the game. They know what it is and have to assure me they understand what I’m doing for them. Or I won’t use that tool." I have so many questions that I don't know where to start? There are women whose confidence is restored by having sex with a man who is only doing it for their sake? | |||
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"I’ve not done it. Not something I could tbh Keep great personal boundaries and hopefully you never will
Unfortunately a not very good LTR - no, fuck it, call it what it was - an abusive LTR left me with rubbish boundaries. And I think this is what it comes down to. "Hopefully you're more sure of your boundaries now and able to maintain them | |||
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"Any one local to Southampton want to pity fuck me lol still looking for my first verification lol
Read the room..."I did lol was just trying my luck  | |||
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"I do this, although I call it more sex therapy. I don’t like the derogatory term ‘pity sex’ , however, it’s understandably the same thing. Sometimes a good session is all a girl needs to get her confidence back. To get back in the game. They know what it is and have to assure me they understand what I’m doing for them. Or I won’t use that tool. I have so many questions that I don't know where to start? There are women whose confidence is restored by having sex with a man who is only doing it for their sake? " Hopefully he may come back and answer a few questions! | |||
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"I do this, although I call it more sex therapy. I don’t like the derogatory term ‘pity sex’ , however, it’s understandably the same thing. Sometimes a good session is all a girl needs to get her confidence back. To get back in the game. They know what it is and have to assure me they understand what I’m doing for them. Or I won’t use that tool." How on earth would that help someone get their confidence back?! | |||
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"I do this, although I call it more sex therapy. I don’t like the derogatory term ‘pity sex’ , however, it’s understandably the same thing. Sometimes a good session is all a girl needs to get her confidence back. To get back in the game. They know what it is and have to assure me they understand what I’m doing for them. Or I won’t use that tool. Sex therapy? Not familiar with that approach. Do you feel attracted to the girls you do this with? " Not at all, I council a lot for the most part it’s no touch, I’ll even reject them or distance them if they get too close, which I’m clear about. But some don’t need council they need intimacy, they lack self confidence. Too many rude men or bad breakups etc. so I basically become an escort, unpaid. And help them gain that spark back and then help them find partners or ‘other’ and teach the means to find them. Loneliness creates a a vulnerability from which toxic relationships are born. | |||
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"I’ve not done it. Not something I could tbh Keep great personal boundaries and hopefully you never will
Unfortunately a not very good LTR - no, fuck it, call it what it was - an abusive LTR left me with rubbish boundaries. And I think this is what it comes down to.
Hopefully you're more sure of your boundaries now and able to maintain them
"Better all the time, thank you. | |||
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"I do this, although I call it more sex therapy. I don’t like the derogatory term ‘pity sex’ , however, it’s understandably the same thing. Sometimes a good session is all a girl needs to get her confidence back. To get back in the game. They know what it is and have to assure me they understand what I’m doing for them. Or I won’t use that tool. Sex therapy? Not familiar with that approach. Do you feel attracted to the girls you do this with? Not at all, I council a lot for the most part it’s no touch, I’ll even reject them or distance them if they get too close, which I’m clear about. But some don’t need council they need intimacy, they lack self confidence. Too many rude men or bad breakups etc. so I basically become an escort, unpaid. And help them gain that spark back and then help them find partners or ‘other’ and teach the means to find them. Loneliness creates a a vulnerability from which toxic relationships are born. " You really are just too kind | |||
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"I do this, although I call it more sex therapy. I don’t like the derogatory term ‘pity sex’ , however, it’s understandably the same thing. Sometimes a good session is all a girl needs to get her confidence back. To get back in the game. They know what it is and have to assure me they understand what I’m doing for them. Or I won’t use that tool. Sex therapy? Not familiar with that approach. Do you feel attracted to the girls you do this with? Not at all, I council a lot for the most part it’s no touch, I’ll even reject them or distance them if they get too close, which I’m clear about. But some don’t need council they need intimacy, they lack self confidence. Too many rude men or bad breakups etc. so I basically become an escort, unpaid. And help them gain that spark back and then help them find partners or ‘other’ and teach the means to find them. Loneliness creates a a vulnerability from which toxic relationships are born. " I really hope you don't do that in some kind of professional capacity | |||
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"Any one local to Southampton want to pity fuck me lol still looking for my first verification lol
Read the room...
I did lol was just trying my luck "Yeah don't do that when other people are baring their souls  | |||
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"Guilt sex and nagging all through my marriage." How long were you married? It makes me really sad and angry when I wonder just how many people feel they have no option than to give into the nagging. Just to get away from the guilt. To give themselves some breathing space. It's the very opposite of what this site should be about - sex should be something we are excited about and look forward to. And I hope that perhaps you have that now, not the guilt-ridden kind. | |||
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"Any one local to Southampton want to pity fuck me lol still looking for my first verification lol
Read the room...
I did lol was just trying my luck
Yeah don't do that when other people are baring their souls "My bad I'm sorry but for real if anyone's up for it I am aswell lol | |||
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"Any one local to Southampton want to pity fuck me lol still looking for my first verification lol
Read the room...
I did lol was just trying my luck
Yeah don't do that when other people are baring their souls
My bad I'm sorry but for real if anyone's up for it I am aswell lol"You're not sorry or you'd go away. | |||
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"Not that I recall, but I did sleep with a guy so I knew someone else wouldn't go near him. He really fancied her "So she couldn't have him or because he was bad news? | |||
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"I do this, although I call it more sex therapy. I don’t like the derogatory term ‘pity sex’ , however, it’s understandably the same thing. Sometimes a good session is all a girl needs to get her confidence back. To get back in the game. They know what it is and have to assure me they understand what I’m doing for them. Or I won’t use that tool. Sex therapy? Not familiar with that approach. Do you feel attracted to the girls you do this with? Not at all, I council a lot for the most part it’s no touch, I’ll even reject them or distance them if they get too close, which I’m clear about. But some don’t need council they need intimacy, they lack self confidence. Too many rude men or bad breakups etc. so I basically become an escort, unpaid. And help them gain that spark back and then help them find partners or ‘other’ and teach the means to find them. Loneliness creates a a vulnerability from which toxic relationships are born. I really hope you don't do that in some kind of professional capacity " Certainly Not, I just help whoever needs me and with whatever I have in my toolbox. People just gravitate towards me, spill their life stories and I help them grow. I just offer complete honesty with them. | |||
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"I did when I was young and stupid. The worst one I remember was that older guy I met (he lied about his age so I wasn’t aware until I got there). We had dinner and drinks and then I felt obliged to follow him to his hotel room. I really wasn’t attracted to him and even now when I think about it, it makes me sick. Now that I’m older and more confident these things do not happen to me anymore. Or, I don’t let them happen." "Felt obliged" I keep seeing those words. What a cockwomble that man was - he would have known you felt that. And he let you do it anyway. I'm glad your boundaries are firm now | |||
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"I do this, although I call it more sex therapy. I don’t like the derogatory term ‘pity sex’ , however, it’s understandably the same thing. Sometimes a good session is all a girl needs to get her confidence back. To get back in the game. They know what it is and have to assure me they understand what I’m doing for them. Or I won’t use that tool. Sex therapy? Not familiar with that approach. Do you feel attracted to the girls you do this with? Not at all, I council a lot for the most part it’s no touch, I’ll even reject them or distance them if they get too close, which I’m clear about. But some don’t need council they need intimacy, they lack self confidence. Too many rude men or bad breakups etc. so I basically become an escort, unpaid. And help them gain that spark back and then help them find partners or ‘other’ and teach the means to find them. Loneliness creates a a vulnerability from which toxic relationships are born. I really hope you don't do that in some kind of professional capacity Certainly Not, I just help whoever needs me and with whatever I have in my toolbox. People just gravitate towards me, spill their life stories and I help them grow. I just offer complete honesty with them. " Do you do this often? | |||
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"I did when I was young and stupid. The worst one I remember was that older guy I met (he lied about his age so I wasn’t aware until I got there). We had dinner and drinks and then I felt obliged to follow him to his hotel room. I really wasn’t attracted to him and even now when I think about it, it makes me sick. Now that I’m older and more confident these things do not happen to me anymore. Or, I don’t let them happen. "Felt obliged" I keep seeing those words. What a cockwomble that man was - he would have known you felt that. And he let you do it anyway. I'm glad your boundaries are firm now "why is the other person in the wrong though? Nobody was forced it seemed. People shouldn’t feel obliged. | |||
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"I did when I was young and stupid. The worst one I remember was that older guy I met (he lied about his age so I wasn’t aware until I got there). We had dinner and drinks and then I felt obliged to follow him to his hotel room. I really wasn’t attracted to him and even now when I think about it, it makes me sick. Now that I’m older and more confident these things do not happen to me anymore. Or, I don’t let them happen. "Felt obliged" I keep seeing those words. What a cockwomble that man was - he would have known you felt that. And he let you do it anyway. I'm glad your boundaries are firm now "why was he a cockwomble ? Perhaps he doesn’t or isn’t very good at picking up signals/vibes | |||
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"I do this, although I call it more sex therapy. I don’t like the derogatory term ‘pity sex’ , however, it’s understandably the same thing. Sometimes a good session is all a girl needs to get her confidence back. To get back in the game. They know what it is and have to assure me they understand what I’m doing for them. Or I won’t use that tool. Sex therapy? Not familiar with that approach. Do you feel attracted to the girls you do this with? Not at all, I council a lot for the most part it’s no touch, I’ll even reject them or distance them if they get too close, which I’m clear about. But some don’t need council they need intimacy, they lack self confidence. Too many rude men or bad breakups etc. so I basically become an escort, unpaid. And help them gain that spark back and then help them find partners or ‘other’ and teach the means to find them. Loneliness creates a a vulnerability from which toxic relationships are born. I really hope you don't do that in some kind of professional capacity Certainly Not, I just help whoever needs me and with whatever I have in my toolbox. People just gravitate towards me, spill their life stories and I help them grow. I just offer complete honesty with them. Do you do this often?" Not that often, always supporting 2 or 3 women at a time, intensity pending. I try to avoid anything physical for the most part. But maybe a couple of times a year, it’s required, and usually very short lived as it’s all they needed. I like it when they message me sometimes years later saying how happy they now are, that they are in happy relationships and thanking me. Brings a smile to my otherwise lonely world. | |||
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"Most definitely. It comes from a good place and wanting to help someone feel good about themselves. Yes. The thought of making someone's face drop in disappointment and rejection is ..too much. " that's why we always have a strictly social meet first. No expectations, no disappiontment. But great if it goes further next time. | |||
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"I did when I was young and stupid. The worst one I remember was that older guy I met (he lied about his age so I wasn’t aware until I got there). We had dinner and drinks and then I felt obliged to follow him to his hotel room. I really wasn’t attracted to him and even now when I think about it, it makes me sick. Now that I’m older and more confident these things do not happen to me anymore. Or, I don’t let them happen. "Felt obliged" I keep seeing those words. What a cockwomble that man was - he would have known you felt that. And he let you do it anyway. I'm glad your boundaries are firm now why is the other person in the wrong though? Nobody was forced it seemed. People shouldn’t feel obliged. "Is force the only reason people have sex when they don't want to? People shouldn't feel obliged, not at all. She had sex with someone years ago and it makes her feel sick now - you're telling me he didn't pick up on any of that? He was the older more experienced of the pair who had lied about his age to get her there. | |||
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"I did when I was young and stupid. The worst one I remember was that older guy I met (he lied about his age so I wasn’t aware until I got there). We had dinner and drinks and then I felt obliged to follow him to his hotel room. I really wasn’t attracted to him and even now when I think about it, it makes me sick. Now that I’m older and more confident these things do not happen to me anymore. Or, I don’t let them happen. "Felt obliged" I keep seeing those words. What a cockwomble that man was - he would have known you felt that. And he let you do it anyway. I'm glad your boundaries are firm now why was he a cockwomble ? Perhaps he doesn’t or isn’t very good at picking up signals/vibes "I think my comment ^^ explains why I think that. | |||
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"I did when I was young and stupid. The worst one I remember was that older guy I met (he lied about his age so I wasn’t aware until I got there). We had dinner and drinks and then I felt obliged to follow him to his hotel room. I really wasn’t attracted to him and even now when I think about it, it makes me sick. Now that I’m older and more confident these things do not happen to me anymore. Or, I don’t let them happen. "Felt obliged" I keep seeing those words. What a cockwomble that man was - he would have known you felt that. And he let you do it anyway. I'm glad your boundaries are firm now why is the other person in the wrong though? Nobody was forced it seemed. People shouldn’t feel obliged.
Is force the only reason people have sex when they don't want to? People shouldn't feel obliged, not at all. She had sex with someone years ago and it makes her feel sick now - you're telling me he didn't pick up on any of that? He was the older more experienced of the pair who had lied about his age to get her there. "Probably not the thread for me. I can’t get my head around the feeling obliged bit. There is not one scenario or reason that I would ever feel obliged to have sex with someone. | |||
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"Most definitely. It comes from a good place and wanting to help someone feel good about themselves. Yes. The thought of making someone's face drop in disappointment and rejection is ..too much. that's why we always have a strictly social meet first. No expectations, no disappiontment. But great if it goes further next time."  | |||
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"I do this, although I call it more sex therapy. I don’t like the derogatory term ‘pity sex’ , however, it’s understandably the same thing. Sometimes a good session is all a girl needs to get her confidence back. To get back in the game. They know what it is and have to assure me they understand what I’m doing for them. Or I won’t use that tool. Sex therapy? Not familiar with that approach. Do you feel attracted to the girls you do this with? Not at all, I council a lot for the most part it’s no touch, I’ll even reject them or distance them if they get too close, which I’m clear about. But some don’t need council they need intimacy, they lack self confidence. Too many rude men or bad breakups etc. so I basically become an escort, unpaid. And help them gain that spark back and then help them find partners or ‘other’ and teach the means to find them. Loneliness creates a a vulnerability from which toxic relationships are born. I really hope you don't do that in some kind of professional capacity Certainly Not, I just help whoever needs me and with whatever I have in my toolbox. People just gravitate towards me, spill their life stories and I help them grow. I just offer complete honesty with them. " My ex thought of himself this way. I'm certain of it. Thought his comfort and friendship (and dicking) would boost their confidence. All it did really was leave a trail of broken hearts behind him. | |||
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"Any one local to Southampton want to pity fuck me lol still looking for my first verification lol
Read the room...
I did lol was just trying my luck
Yeah don't do that when other people are baring their souls
My bad I'm sorry but for real if anyone's up for it I am aswell lol
You're not sorry or you'd go away. "And this is why he's not having any success | |||
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"I did when I was young and stupid. The worst one I remember was that older guy I met (he lied about his age so I wasn’t aware until I got there). We had dinner and drinks and then I felt obliged to follow him to his hotel room. I really wasn’t attracted to him and even now when I think about it, it makes me sick. Now that I’m older and more confident these things do not happen to me anymore. Or, I don’t let them happen. "Felt obliged" I keep seeing those words. What a cockwomble that man was - he would have known you felt that. And he let you do it anyway. I'm glad your boundaries are firm now why was he a cockwomble ? Perhaps he doesn’t or isn’t very good at picking up signals/vibes
I think my comment ^^ explains why I think that. "She didn’t have to go back to his room she could of made excuses and left but yer he’s a cockwomble | |||
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"I have. I wish I'd climbed out of the cafe window rather than gone through with it. Just nope. Bad judgement call but I felt so bad for him, I didn't back out. Surely I am not the only one?" The answer to your question surprises me. I have seen quite a few of your replies in the forums and you come across as a woman who knows her own mind and because of that you would have said something politely to turn him down. But as you mentioned it was a pity fuck, although I can guarantee the guy would have been chuffed to bits. That being said I'm sure we have all done something similar especially when we were younger. | |||
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"Not that I recall, but I did sleep with a guy so I knew someone else wouldn't go near him. He really fancied her
So she couldn't have him or because he was bad news? "She wasn't interested, but I knew she wouldn't even go near him if she knew he'd been with me. He was a bit of a dick. I just did it for fun. | |||
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" My ex thought of himself this way. I'm certain of it. Thought his comfort and friendship (and dicking) would boost their confidence. All it did really was leave a trail of broken hearts behind him." That’s such a shame, a lot of groundwork needs doing before hand. Complete honesty and experience is a definite requirement. The ones without intimacy appear to be most at risk of growing feelings, I have to be able to recognise it, then apply distance but never blocking contact completely. As I’m the support still, the rock they have come to trust, they take a time to adjust again and then they contact me when they’ve processed it. | |||
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"Nope. I’d never do that. " Lol | |||
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"I did when I was young and stupid. The worst one I remember was that older guy I met (he lied about his age so I wasn’t aware until I got there). We had dinner and drinks and then I felt obliged to follow him to his hotel room. I really wasn’t attracted to him and even now when I think about it, it makes me sick. Now that I’m older and more confident these things do not happen to me anymore. Or, I don’t let them happen. "Felt obliged" I keep seeing those words. What a cockwomble that man was - he would have known you felt that. And he let you do it anyway. I'm glad your boundaries are firm now why is the other person in the wrong though? Nobody was forced it seemed. People shouldn’t feel obliged.
Is force the only reason people have sex when they don't want to? People shouldn't feel obliged, not at all. She had sex with someone years ago and it makes her feel sick now - you're telling me he didn't pick up on any of that? He was the older more experienced of the pair who had lied about his age to get her there.
Probably not the thread for me. I can’t get my head around the feeling obliged bit. There is not one scenario or reason that I would ever feel obliged to have sex with someone. "How about gaslighting? | |||
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"Most definitely. It comes from a good place and wanting to help someone feel good about themselves. Yes. The thought of making someone's face drop in disappointment and rejection is ..too much. that's why we always have a strictly social meet first. No expectations, no disappiontment. But great if it goes further next time." Absolutely. I think that's a good approach I wish I had taken that day! | |||
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"I did when I was young and stupid. The worst one I remember was that older guy I met (he lied about his age so I wasn’t aware until I got there). We had dinner and drinks and then I felt obliged to follow him to his hotel room. I really wasn’t attracted to him and even now when I think about it, it makes me sick. Now that I’m older and more confident these things do not happen to me anymore. Or, I don’t let them happen. "Felt obliged" I keep seeing those words. What a cockwomble that man was - he would have known you felt that. And he let you do it anyway. I'm glad your boundaries are firm now why is the other person in the wrong though? Nobody was forced it seemed. People shouldn’t feel obliged.
Is force the only reason people have sex when they don't want to? People shouldn't feel obliged, not at all. She had sex with someone years ago and it makes her feel sick now - you're telling me he didn't pick up on any of that? He was the older more experienced of the pair who had lied about his age to get her there.
Probably not the thread for me. I can’t get my head around the feeling obliged bit. There is not one scenario or reason that I would ever feel obliged to have sex with someone.
How about gaslighting?"No. As I said, I would never feel obliged to have sex with someone. | |||
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"Any one local to Southampton want to pity fuck me lol still looking for my first verification lol
Read the room...
I did lol was just trying my luck
Yeah don't do that when other people are baring their souls
My bad I'm sorry but for real if anyone's up for it I am aswell lol
You're not sorry or you'd go away.
And this is why he's not having any success"It's a fair assessment... | |||
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" My ex thought of himself this way. I'm certain of it. Thought his comfort and friendship (and dicking) would boost their confidence. All it did really was leave a trail of broken hearts behind him. That’s such a shame, a lot of groundwork needs doing before hand. Complete honesty and experience is a definite requirement. The ones without intimacy appear to be most at risk of growing feelings, I have to be able to recognise it, then apply distance but never blocking contact completely. As I’m the support still, the rock they have come to trust, they take a time to adjust again and then they contact me when they’ve processed it. " Truthfully, I think you can think you know what you're doing, but it sounds incredibly dangerous and "puppet mastery". You can say what you want to people, you can make things clear as day from your end, but unless you're being paid to do it in a professional capacity lines will get blurred at the other end. It's peoples emotions. Vulnerable peoples emotions. | |||
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"I did when I was young and stupid. The worst one I remember was that older guy I met (he lied about his age so I wasn’t aware until I got there). We had dinner and drinks and then I felt obliged to follow him to his hotel room. I really wasn’t attracted to him and even now when I think about it, it makes me sick. Now that I’m older and more confident these things do not happen to me anymore. Or, I don’t let them happen. "Felt obliged" I keep seeing those words. What a cockwomble that man was - he would have known you felt that. And he let you do it anyway. I'm glad your boundaries are firm now why is the other person in the wrong though? Nobody was forced it seemed. People shouldn’t feel obliged.
Is force the only reason people have sex when they don't want to? People shouldn't feel obliged, not at all. She had sex with someone years ago and it makes her feel sick now - you're telling me he didn't pick up on any of that? He was the older more experienced of the pair who had lied about his age to get her there.
Probably not the thread for me. I can’t get my head around the feeling obliged bit. There is not one scenario or reason that I would ever feel obliged to have sex with someone.
How about gaslighting?
No. As I said, I would never feel obliged to have sex with someone. "Ok. I think others have just had different experiences, Nora. | |||
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" My ex thought of himself this way. I'm certain of it. Thought his comfort and friendship (and dicking) would boost their confidence. All it did really was leave a trail of broken hearts behind him. That’s such a shame, a lot of groundwork needs doing before hand. Complete honesty and experience is a definite requirement. The ones without intimacy appear to be most at risk of growing feelings, I have to be able to recognise it, then apply distance but never blocking contact completely. As I’m the support still, the rock they have come to trust, they take a time to adjust again and then they contact me when they’ve processed it. " With no training or professional knowledge, I think you're treading a dangerous path. With good intentions perhaps but dangerous nonetheless. | |||
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"Not that I recall, but I did sleep with a guy so I knew someone else wouldn't go near him. He really fancied her
So she couldn't have him or because he was bad news?
She wasn't interested, but I knew she wouldn't even go near him if she knew he'd been with me. He was a bit of a dick. I just did it for fun."You're right, it's not really what the thread is about. Do you think you'd do the same now? | |||
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" My ex thought of himself this way. I'm certain of it. Thought his comfort and friendship (and dicking) would boost their confidence. All it did really was leave a trail of broken hearts behind him. That’s such a shame, a lot of groundwork needs doing before hand. Complete honesty and experience is a definite requirement. The ones without intimacy appear to be most at risk of growing feelings, I have to be able to recognise it, then apply distance but never blocking contact completely. As I’m the support still, the rock they have come to trust, they take a time to adjust again and then they contact me when they’ve processed it. With no training or professional knowledge, I think you're treading a dangerous path. With good intentions perhaps but dangerous nonetheless. " I’m aware. For the most part it’s CBT, talk therapy. Coupled with using my autistic brain. Logic, robotic processing. To unwind the chaos knot their emotions have wrought upon them. And try to make a road map for them to get back on their desired path. I felt that to, so started CBT training, level one completed and onto level 2 now. After dealing with my late partners dealings with mental health battles and the woeful care available. I took it upon myself to do as much good as I can. While also seeing limits and referring to better care elsewhere. | |||
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" My ex thought of himself this way. I'm certain of it. Thought his comfort and friendship (and dicking) would boost their confidence. All it did really was leave a trail of broken hearts behind him. That’s such a shame, a lot of groundwork needs doing before hand. Complete honesty and experience is a definite requirement. The ones without intimacy appear to be most at risk of growing feelings, I have to be able to recognise it, then apply distance but never blocking contact completely. As I’m the support still, the rock they have come to trust, they take a time to adjust again and then they contact me when they’ve processed it. With no training or professional knowledge, I think you're treading a dangerous path. With good intentions perhaps but dangerous nonetheless. I’m aware. For the most part it’s CBT, talk therapy. Coupled with using my autistic brain. Logic, robotic processing. To unwind the chaos knot their emotions have wrought upon them. And try to make a road map for them to get back on their desired path. I felt that to, so started CBT training, level one completed and onto level 2 now. After dealing with my late partners dealings with mental health battles and the woeful care available. I took it upon myself to do as much good as I can. While also seeing limits and referring to better care elsewhere. " Call me cynical but having read everything you’ve said I don’t like it at all. I see it as preying on vulnerable women. Doesn’t sound right at all to me. | |||
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" My ex thought of himself this way. I'm certain of it. Thought his comfort and friendship (and dicking) would boost their confidence. All it did really was leave a trail of broken hearts behind him. That’s such a shame, a lot of groundwork needs doing before hand. Complete honesty and experience is a definite requirement. The ones without intimacy appear to be most at risk of growing feelings, I have to be able to recognise it, then apply distance but never blocking contact completely. As I’m the support still, the rock they have come to trust, they take a time to adjust again and then they contact me when they’ve processed it. With no training or professional knowledge, I think you're treading a dangerous path. With good intentions perhaps but dangerous nonetheless. I’m aware. For the most part it’s CBT, talk therapy. Coupled with using my autistic brain. Logic, robotic processing. To unwind the chaos knot their emotions have wrought upon them. And try to make a road map for them to get back on their desired path. I felt that to, so started CBT training, level one completed and onto level 2 now. After dealing with my late partners dealings with mental health battles and the woeful care available. I took it upon myself to do as much good as I can. While also seeing limits and referring to better care elsewhere. " I think that's admirable. But I still don't understand why sex needs to be involved? | |||
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"Once. It was awful " Sorry to hear that | |||
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" I think that's admirable. But I still don't understand why sex needs to be involved?" It very rarely is, just the ones that need a quick pick me up. Otherwise I’m a ‘gay best friend’ persona. And won’t betray their trust. | |||
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"I did when I was young and stupid. The worst one I remember was that older guy I met (he lied about his age so I wasn’t aware until I got there). We had dinner and drinks and then I felt obliged to follow him to his hotel room. I really wasn’t attracted to him and even now when I think about it, it makes me sick. Now that I’m older and more confident these things do not happen to me anymore. Or, I don’t let them happen. "Felt obliged" I keep seeing those words. What a cockwomble that man was - he would have known you felt that. And he let you do it anyway. I'm glad your boundaries are firm now why is the other person in the wrong though? Nobody was forced it seemed. People shouldn’t feel obliged.
Is force the only reason people have sex when they don't want to? People shouldn't feel obliged, not at all. She had sex with someone years ago and it makes her feel sick now - you're telling me he didn't pick up on any of that? He was the older more experienced of the pair who had lied about his age to get her there. "people are not mind readers tho she knew when she met him he lied it’s quite simple to walk away from these situations..Not every story has to have a victim.. | |||
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" I think that's admirable. But I still don't understand why sex needs to be involved? It very rarely is, just the ones that need a quick pick me up. Otherwise I’m a ‘gay best friend’ persona. And won’t betray their trust. " Where do you find these women that need help? | |||
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"Yes, we've both been guilty of this. We don't regret as such, but both taken valuable lessons." I feel the same about my experience - I made mistakes and I've learnt valuable lessons. We are only human. | |||
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"Never would I feel I should or anyone shouldn't be abligded to have sex even if you felt sorry for them. There is never a reason unless you are a sex worker and are charging "I guess we can only make these calls in the moment. And what we "should do" doesn't always happen in reality. There was a reason for me and for many other people on the thread. | |||
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" I think that's admirable. But I still don't understand why sex needs to be involved? It very rarely is, just the ones that need a quick pick me up. Otherwise I’m a ‘gay best friend’ persona. And won’t betray their trust. Where do you find these women that need help? " They seem to find me now. Friends or relatives of people I’ve helped before. | |||
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"I did when I was young and stupid. The worst one I remember was that older guy I met (he lied about his age so I wasn’t aware until I got there). We had dinner and drinks and then I felt obliged to follow him to his hotel room. I really wasn’t attracted to him and even now when I think about it, it makes me sick. Now that I’m older and more confident these things do not happen to me anymore. Or, I don’t let them happen. "Felt obliged" I keep seeing those words. What a cockwomble that man was - he would have known you felt that. And he let you do it anyway. I'm glad your boundaries are firm now why was he a cockwomble ? Perhaps he doesn’t or isn’t very good at picking up signals/vibes
I think my comment ^^ explains why I think that. She didn’t have to go back to his room she could of made excuses and left but yer he’s a cockwomble "Yes. My opinion. You have yours. | |||
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"I did when I was young and stupid. The worst one I remember was that older guy I met (he lied about his age so I wasn’t aware until I got there). We had dinner and drinks and then I felt obliged to follow him to his hotel room. I really wasn’t attracted to him and even now when I think about it, it makes me sick. Now that I’m older and more confident these things do not happen to me anymore. Or, I don’t let them happen. "Felt obliged" I keep seeing those words. What a cockwomble that man was - he would have known you felt that. And he let you do it anyway. I'm glad your boundaries are firm now why is the other person in the wrong though? Nobody was forced it seemed. People shouldn’t feel obliged.
Is force the only reason people have sex when they don't want to? People shouldn't feel obliged, not at all. She had sex with someone years ago and it makes her feel sick now - you're telling me he didn't pick up on any of that? He was the older more experienced of the pair who had lied about his age to get her there. people are not mind readers tho she knew when she met him he lied it’s quite simple to walk away from these situations..Not every story has to have a victim.."I didn't say she was a victim nor did she call herself one. Don't put words in other people's mouths. I disagree with you. | |||
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"I've not taken pity or had guilt sex, but I wouldn't mind someone taking pity on me. "Oh come on | |||
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"Not that I recall, but I did sleep with a guy so I knew someone else wouldn't go near him. He really fancied her
So she couldn't have him or because he was bad news?
She wasn't interested, but I knew she wouldn't even go near him if she knew he'd been with me. He was a bit of a dick. I just did it for fun.
You're right, it's not really what the thread is about. Do you think you'd do the same now? "No, too much drama | |||
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"Not that I recall, but I did sleep with a guy so I knew someone else wouldn't go near him. He really fancied her
So she couldn't have him or because he was bad news?
She wasn't interested, but I knew she wouldn't even go near him if she knew he'd been with me. He was a bit of a dick. I just did it for fun.
You're right, it's not really what the thread is about. Do you think you'd do the same now?
No, too much drama"Fair enough! | |||
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"This reminds me of a quote I read do where, and it and was something along the lines of “you should always disappoint others, before you disappoint yourself “ Nobody should feel obliged to do something they don’t want to. It makes me think about the tendency to be a people pleaser." I think so many of us automatically seek not to disappoint others. It's ingrained. Oddly I have never thought of myself as a people pleaser yet I recognise the behaviour. | |||
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"This reminds me of a quote I read do where, and it and was something along the lines of “you should always disappoint others, before you disappoint yourself “ Nobody should feel obliged to do something they don’t want to. It makes me think about the tendency to be a people pleaser." Unfortunatleyany people dissappont themselves before they will dissappont others. | |||
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"This reminds me of a quote I read do where, and it and was something along the lines of “you should always disappoint others, before you disappoint yourself “ Nobody should feel obliged to do something they don’t want to. It makes me think about the tendency to be a people pleaser. I think so many of us automatically seek not to disappoint others. It's ingrained. Oddly I have never thought of myself as a people pleaser yet I recognise the behaviour. " I think without it being recognised many people demand to be pleased and make their displeasure clear if they aren't. I don't necessarily mean sexually but in every avenue of life. They are so subtle about it that people who love or like them get into the habit of pleasing. Women especially are expected to be kind, nice and acquiescent in all areas of life. To be clear I'm not talking about non consent. | |||
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"I've not taken pity or had guilt sex, but I wouldn't mind someone taking pity on me.
Oh come on "Do you not have humour where you live? | |||
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" The answer to your question surprises me. I have seen quite a few of your replies in the forums and you come across as a woman who knows her own mind and because of that you would have said something politely to turn him down. But as you mentioned it was a pity fuck, although I can guarantee the guy would have been chuffed to bits. That being said I'm sure we have all done something similar especially when we were younger. " I think it's quite hard to gauge a person from public posts. I turn down men every day on here. I take no pride or pleasure in it. But in person it's a great deal more difficult. We don't do the things we should do. We don't make the sensible choices. I was 50 when I wanted to climb out of a cafe window to avoid telling a guy I didn't want to have sex with them. And then I did have sex with him. Still learning. | |||
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"I've not taken pity or had guilt sex, but I wouldn't mind someone taking pity on me.
Oh come on
Do you not have humour where you live?"Do you not read the bloody room where you live? | |||
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"This reminds me of a quote I read do where, and it and was something along the lines of “you should always disappoint others, before you disappoint yourself “ Nobody should feel obliged to do something they don’t want to. It makes me think about the tendency to be a people pleaser. I think so many of us automatically seek not to disappoint others. It's ingrained. Oddly I have never thought of myself as a people pleaser yet I recognise the behaviour. I think without it being recognised many people demand to be pleased and make their displeasure clear if they aren't. I don't necessarily mean sexually but in every avenue of life. They are so subtle about it that people who love or like them get into the habit of pleasing. Women especially are expected to be kind, nice and acquiescent in all areas of life. To be clear I'm not talking about non consent. " Do you know that just made me well up. It's so very true. I spent many years in that habit of pleasing. It's hard to train yourself out of it. | |||
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"I've not taken pity or had guilt sex, but I wouldn't mind someone taking pity on me.
Oh come on
Do you not have humour where you live?
Do you not read the bloody room where you live? "I don't see the word "mod" beside your name, so please don't tell me what I can & cannot post. | |||
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"This reminds me of a quote I read do where, and it and was something along the lines of “you should always disappoint others, before you disappoint yourself “ Nobody should feel obliged to do something they don’t want to. It makes me think about the tendency to be a people pleaser. I think so many of us automatically seek not to disappoint others. It's ingrained. Oddly I have never thought of myself as a people pleaser yet I recognise the behaviour. I think without it being recognised many people demand to be pleased and make their displeasure clear if they aren't. I don't necessarily mean sexually but in every avenue of life. They are so subtle about it that people who love or like them get into the habit of pleasing. Women especially are expected to be kind, nice and acquiescent in all areas of life. To be clear I'm not talking about non consent. " I don't think women are expected to have sex with a guy out of pity though | |||
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"I've not taken pity or had guilt sex, but I wouldn't mind someone taking pity on me.
Oh come on
Do you not have humour where you live?
Do you not read the bloody room where you live?
I don't see the word "mod" beside your name, so please don't tell me what I can & cannot post."I didn't. I told you to read the room. I started the thread and you're the second man I've had to tell off for thinking it's funny to joke about pity sex. When people are discussing how crap they felt having pity sex. | |||
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" The answer to your question surprises me. I have seen quite a few of your replies in the forums and you come across as a woman who knows her own mind and because of that you would have said something politely to turn him down. But as you mentioned it was a pity fuck, although I can guarantee the guy would have been chuffed to bits. That being said I'm sure we have all done something similar especially when we were younger. I think it's quite hard to gauge a person from public posts. I turn down men every day on here. I take no pride or pleasure in it. But in person it's a great deal more difficult. We don't do the things we should do. We don't make the sensible choices. I was 50 when I wanted to climb out of a cafe window to avoid telling a guy I didn't want to have sex with them. And then I did have sex with him. Still learning. "I agree it is difficult to gauge people regarding what they post online. You can make a better decision if you hear their voice and the tone they use. I haven't always made sensible choices but after a while I can usually laugh about them, depending to the circumstances. Nowadays I don't kick myself about decisions I have made in the past, but that has taken a long time. Climbing out the window to avoid sex would have made a great memory and hopefully have made you chuckle to yourself for years to come. We live and learn every day. | |||
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" The answer to your question surprises me. I have seen quite a few of your replies in the forums and you come across as a woman who knows her own mind and because of that you would have said something politely to turn him down. But as you mentioned it was a pity fuck, although I can guarantee the guy would have been chuffed to bits. That being said I'm sure we have all done something similar especially when we were younger. I think it's quite hard to gauge a person from public posts. I turn down men every day on here. I take no pride or pleasure in it. But in person it's a great deal more difficult. We don't do the things we should do. We don't make the sensible choices. I was 50 when I wanted to climb out of a cafe window to avoid telling a guy I didn't want to have sex with them. And then I did have sex with him. Still learning.
I agree it is difficult to gauge people regarding what they post online. You can make a better decision if you hear their voice and the tone they use.
I haven't always made sensible choices but after a while I can usually laugh about them, depending to the circumstances. Nowadays I don't kick myself about decisions I have made in the past, but that has taken a long time.
Climbing out the window to avoid sex would have made a great memory and hopefully have made you chuckle to yourself for years to come.
We live and learn every day. "I was kidding myself. I wouldn't have fitted in the window. Actually the story got even more awkward later. It would have to be one of the most cringe-making days ever. And then I had to tell him I wasn't going to sleep with him again. Not one for the grandkids. | |||
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"This reminds me of a quote I read do where, and it and was something along the lines of “you should always disappoint others, before you disappoint yourself “ Nobody should feel obliged to do something they don’t want to. It makes me think about the tendency to be a people pleaser. I think so many of us automatically seek not to disappoint others. It's ingrained. Oddly I have never thought of myself as a people pleaser yet I recognise the behaviour. I think without it being recognised many people demand to be pleased and make their displeasure clear if they aren't. I don't necessarily mean sexually but in every avenue of life. They are so subtle about it that people who love or like them get into the habit of pleasing. Women especially are expected to be kind, nice and acquiescent in all areas of life. To be clear I'm not talking about non consent. I don't think women are expected to have sex with a guy out of pity though " No? Read the lyrics of Paolo Nutini's song Last Request or to put the boot on the other foot Help Me Make It Through The Night Gladys Knight | |||
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"This reminds me of a quote I read do where, and it and was something along the lines of “you should always disappoint others, before you disappoint yourself “ Nobody should feel obliged to do something they don’t want to. It makes me think about the tendency to be a people pleaser. I think so many of us automatically seek not to disappoint others. It's ingrained. Oddly I have never thought of myself as a people pleaser yet I recognise the behaviour. I think without it being recognised many people demand to be pleased and make their displeasure clear if they aren't. I don't necessarily mean sexually but in every avenue of life. They are so subtle about it that people who love or like them get into the habit of pleasing. Women especially are expected to be kind, nice and acquiescent in all areas of life. To be clear I'm not talking about non consent. I don't think women are expected to have sex with a guy out of pity though " I can't speak for Nicecouple but I didn't take that from her comment. It was that some people (mostly women) are conditioned for many years to be pleasers. So they will "feel obliged" to have sex they don't really want to have. I'm not saying it's not consensual. It's what is sometimes known as coercive control, I think. Low level but over a long period. | |||
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"This reminds me of a quote I read do where, and it and was something along the lines of “you should always disappoint others, before you disappoint yourself “ Nobody should feel obliged to do something they don’t want to. It makes me think about the tendency to be a people pleaser. I think so many of us automatically seek not to disappoint others. It's ingrained. Oddly I have never thought of myself as a people pleaser yet I recognise the behaviour. I think without it being recognised many people demand to be pleased and make their displeasure clear if they aren't. I don't necessarily mean sexually but in every avenue of life. They are so subtle about it that people who love or like them get into the habit of pleasing. Women especially are expected to be kind, nice and acquiescent in all areas of life. To be clear I'm not talking about non consent. I don't think women are expected to have sex with a guy out of pity though I can't speak for Nicecouple but I didn't take that from her comment. It was that some people (mostly women) are conditioned for many years to be pleasers. So they will "feel obliged" to have sex they don't really want to have. I'm not saying it's not consensual. It's what is sometimes known as coercive control, I think. Low level but over a long period. " Coercive control seems very far away from the situation you started the thread about. I get that there are situations where a woman might feel obliged because it's what she perceives to be her safest option, but I feel that's a whole different topic | |||
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" The answer to your question surprises me. I have seen quite a few of your replies in the forums and you come across as a woman who knows her own mind and because of that you would have said something politely to turn him down. But as you mentioned it was a pity fuck, although I can guarantee the guy would have been chuffed to bits. That being said I'm sure we have all done something similar especially when we were younger. I think it's quite hard to gauge a person from public posts. I turn down men every day on here. I take no pride or pleasure in it. But in person it's a great deal more difficult. We don't do the things we should do. We don't make the sensible choices. I was 50 when I wanted to climb out of a cafe window to avoid telling a guy I didn't want to have sex with them. And then I did have sex with him. Still learning.
I agree it is difficult to gauge people regarding what they post online. You can make a better decision if you hear their voice and the tone they use.
I haven't always made sensible choices but after a while I can usually laugh about them, depending to the circumstances. Nowadays I don't kick myself about decisions I have made in the past, but that has taken a long time.
Climbing out the window to avoid sex would have made a great memory and hopefully have made you chuckle to yourself for years to come.
We live and learn every day.
I was kidding myself. I wouldn't have fitted in the window. Actually the story got even more awkward later. It would have to be one of the most cringe-making days ever. And then I had to tell him I wasn't going to sleep with him again. Not one for the grandkids. "More awkward! Was he dressed like Roy Cropper and had a couple of his model railway engines with him. I bet your glad you didn't actually fall asleep. I think it is wise not to tell your grandkids. | |||
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"This reminds me of a quote I read do where, and it and was something along the lines of “you should always disappoint others, before you disappoint yourself “ Nobody should feel obliged to do something they don’t want to. It makes me think about the tendency to be a people pleaser. I think so many of us automatically seek not to disappoint others. It's ingrained. Oddly I have never thought of myself as a people pleaser yet I recognise the behaviour. I think without it being recognised many people demand to be pleased and make their displeasure clear if they aren't. I don't necessarily mean sexually but in every avenue of life. They are so subtle about it that people who love or like them get into the habit of pleasing. Women especially are expected to be kind, nice and acquiescent in all areas of life. To be clear I'm not talking about non consent. I don't think women are expected to have sex with a guy out of pity though I can't speak for Nicecouple but I didn't take that from her comment. It was that some people (mostly women) are conditioned for many years to be pleasers. So they will "feel obliged" to have sex they don't really want to have. I'm not saying it's not consensual. It's what is sometimes known as coercive control, I think. Low level but over a long period. Coercive control seems very far away from the situation you started the thread about. I get that there are situations where a woman might feel obliged because it's what she perceives to be her safest option, but I feel that's a whole different topic " I didn't expect the thread to veer here either. Although women keeping the peace had been on my mind of late. Sometimes I just pose a question and see where discussion takes us. | |||
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" The answer to your question surprises me. I have seen quite a few of your replies in the forums and you come across as a woman who knows her own mind and because of that you would have said something politely to turn him down. But as you mentioned it was a pity fuck, although I can guarantee the guy would have been chuffed to bits. That being said I'm sure we have all done something similar especially when we were younger. I think it's quite hard to gauge a person from public posts. I turn down men every day on here. I take no pride or pleasure in it. But in person it's a great deal more difficult. We don't do the things we should do. We don't make the sensible choices. I was 50 when I wanted to climb out of a cafe window to avoid telling a guy I didn't want to have sex with them. And then I did have sex with him. Still learning.
I agree it is difficult to gauge people regarding what they post online. You can make a better decision if you hear their voice and the tone they use.
I haven't always made sensible choices but after a while I can usually laugh about them, depending to the circumstances. Nowadays I don't kick myself about decisions I have made in the past, but that has taken a long time.
Climbing out the window to avoid sex would have made a great memory and hopefully have made you chuckle to yourself for years to come.
We live and learn every day.
I was kidding myself. I wouldn't have fitted in the window. Actually the story got even more awkward later. It would have to be one of the most cringe-making days ever. And then I had to tell him I wasn't going to sleep with him again. Not one for the grandkids.
More awkward! Was he dressed like Roy Cropper and had a couple of his model railway engines with him.
I bet your glad you didn't actually fall asleep.
I think it is wise not to tell your grandkids. "Let's just say this man wasn't living alone... | |||
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"This reminds me of a quote I read do where, and it and was something along the lines of “you should always disappoint others, before you disappoint yourself “ Nobody should feel obliged to do something they don’t want to. It makes me think about the tendency to be a people pleaser. I think so many of us automatically seek not to disappoint others. It's ingrained. Oddly I have never thought of myself as a people pleaser yet I recognise the behaviour. I think without it being recognised many people demand to be pleased and make their displeasure clear if they aren't. I don't necessarily mean sexually but in every avenue of life. They are so subtle about it that people who love or like them get into the habit of pleasing. Women especially are expected to be kind, nice and acquiescent in all areas of life. To be clear I'm not talking about non consent. Do you know that just made me well up. It's so very true. I spent many years in that habit of pleasing. It's hard to train yourself out of it. "It is hard, and imo women are conditioned to please , but it is also possible to change, once you recognise it. | |||
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"Pretty sure I've never received one as I've never met anyone for only one occasion. I don't think I could give one, purely because my cock wouldn't be interested......" Yeah I've been wondering about that! | |||
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"This reminds me of a quote I read do where, and it and was something along the lines of “you should always disappoint others, before you disappoint yourself “ Nobody should feel obliged to do something they don’t want to. It makes me think about the tendency to be a people pleaser. I think so many of us automatically seek not to disappoint others. It's ingrained. Oddly I have never thought of myself as a people pleaser yet I recognise the behaviour. I think without it being recognised many people demand to be pleased and make their displeasure clear if they aren't. I don't necessarily mean sexually but in every avenue of life. They are so subtle about it that people who love or like them get into the habit of pleasing. Women especially are expected to be kind, nice and acquiescent in all areas of life. To be clear I'm not talking about non consent. Do you know that just made me well up. It's so very true. I spent many years in that habit of pleasing. It's hard to train yourself out of it.
It is hard, and imo women are conditioned to please , but it is also possible to change, once you recognise it."I've been aware for a couple of years but I am definitely making headway. | |||
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"I shagged the man because my partner wanted to shag the woman. It was great, the man was shagging me but looking at them and giving a running commentary the whole time. "Fuck her hard! Yeah she loves that!" Etc etc I could have cut a hole in the mattress for his cock and he wouldn't have noticed. " | |||
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"Been on the receiving end of a sympathy shag and it's a lesson well learnt never again " Absolutely, I can't imagine that it's a pleasant feeling. | |||
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"This reminds me of a quote I read do where, and it and was something along the lines of “you should always disappoint others, before you disappoint yourself “ Nobody should feel obliged to do something they don’t want to. It makes me think about the tendency to be a people pleaser. I think so many of us automatically seek not to disappoint others. It's ingrained. Oddly I have never thought of myself as a people pleaser yet I recognise the behaviour. I think without it being recognised many people demand to be pleased and make their displeasure clear if they aren't. I don't necessarily mean sexually but in every avenue of life. They are so subtle about it that people who love or like them get into the habit of pleasing. Women especially are expected to be kind, nice and acquiescent in all areas of life. To be clear I'm not talking about non consent. Do you know that just made me well up. It's so very true. I spent many years in that habit of pleasing. It's hard to train yourself out of it.
It is hard, and imo women are conditioned to please , but it is also possible to change, once you recognise it.
I've been aware for a couple of years but I am definitely making headway. " | |||
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"Pity fuck and guilt sex sounds amazing don't it? Op if its made you feel that bad its a lesson learned we all have the power to say no! I do feel for you & it's keeping you up at night, but just remember we are not made of glass and to be rejected is part of life. As a man on here rejection happens every day ie send a polite message nothing back. I only come on now for forums just for a bit of fun. So please don't feel bad you helped him out and he probably thinks your amazing always remember the power of no!. Hope this helps you. As I say I feel for you " Aww | |||
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definitely wouldn't do it again | |||
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"Pity fuck and guilt sex sounds amazing don't it? Op if its made you feel that bad its a lesson learned we all have the power to say no! I do feel for you & it's keeping you up at night, but just remember we are not made of glass and to be rejected is part of life. As a man on here rejection happens every day ie send a polite message nothing back. I only come on now for forums just for a bit of fun. So please don't feel bad you helped him out and he probably thinks your amazing always remember the power of no!. Hope this helps you. As I say I feel for you " It was a few years ago now. It just pops up in my head now and again and I cringe. | |||
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"I have once and it's something I won't be doing again. I just wasn't feeling it after it started and was uncomfortable but continued until he finished anyway. Call it politeness or lack of experience but lessons learnt." I know many women who have been "polite" and just let him finish. I've done it myself. We're all worth more (including the men). | |||
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"Got into a heated argument with a male friend after his gf dumped him, really upset him & embarrassed him in front of people. We were all drinking & things got a bit carried away, i took him upstairs & rode him. I would never have done that if we hadn't had the argument & i felt so awful for it. "That sounds a crap experience all round. | |||
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"There is a lot of talk on here about women being conditioned to please. Out of interest, those who believe this, who do you believe does the conditioning? Is it as a child by your parents? In school? Presumably it can't be a partner expecting to be pleased because in this situation you would refuse unless you had already been conditioned. What conditioning behaviour do you believe you experience that men/boys don't? I'm not disagreeing that this happens, I'm just curious to hear your experience as a guy who was genuinely raised to consider others first in every situation. A basic example would be of walking in public, if I wasn't paying attention to where I was going and got in someone's way my dad would grab whatever was nearest - often my ear - to move me. I soon learned to pay attention when out and be polite enough not to obstruct others. I was also taught that although I may find some behaviors acceptable, if I knew they upset others to not do them around those people even if I didn't understand what the problem was - there were a lot of these as a child, the members of my parents church had barely moved on from about 1936. I've always seen the way I was raised as simple courtesy and manners so I am curious about what it takes to condition a pleaser. As a separate question do you also believe women are strong, independent, intelligent people able to make their own decisions and live their lives how they want? If so, do you struggle with any cognitive dissonance between the two beliefs? Mr" I don't think believing that women are able to make their own decisions and believing in societal conditioning are mutually exclusive. We are none of us simple binary creatures, there are always shades of grey. I remember an article from a magazine I read as a teenager about quick hair and makeup fixes. "The phone rings - it's HIM and he says he'll be round in five minutes. But you're still wearing your crumpled school uniform, hair unwashed and crusty mascara on your lashes! Don't worry, our quick fixes will sort you out." At the time I thought it was a useful article. I didn't see the undercurrent of "you, as you are, are not good enough." It is subtle. A drip drip drip effect. I have a male friend who I've known for many years. We have a large circle of mutual friends. When he's had a drink he gets a bit handsy. He puts his arm around me and lets it slide a bit too low, down to my bum. I know I'm not the only person he's done this to, either. Always in company. Have I pulled him up on it? No. Why not? Because it's awkward, it makes a scene, I know his wife and don't want to upset her, because it would cause ructions in our social circle - even though it's an open secret - because it's not "that big a deal", because I don't want people to think I'm causing trouble or seeking attention. Hmm. Even writing this down makes it sound ridiculous. I know what I should do. But I haven't. And yes, I do consider myself a feminist, I know my own mind, etc etc. And yet... Societal conditioning runs deep. I could talk about this for days. Mrs TMN x | |||
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"There is a lot of talk on here about women being conditioned to please. Out of interest, those who believe this, who do you believe does the conditioning? Is it as a child by your parents? In school? Presumably it can't be a partner expecting to be pleased because in this situation you would refuse unless you had already been conditioned. What conditioning behaviour do you believe you experience that men/boys don't? I'm not disagreeing that this happens, I'm just curious to hear your experience as a guy who was genuinely raised to consider others first in every situation. A basic example would be of walking in public, if I wasn't paying attention to where I was going and got in someone's way my dad would grab whatever was nearest - often my ear - to move me. I soon learned to pay attention when out and be polite enough not to obstruct others. I was also taught that although I may find some behaviors acceptable, if I knew they upset others to not do them around those people even if I didn't understand what the problem was - there were a lot of these as a child, the members of my parents church had barely moved on from about 1936. I've always seen the way I was raised as simple courtesy and manners so I am curious about what it takes to condition a pleaser. As a separate question do you also believe women are strong, independent, intelligent people able to make their own decisions and live their lives how they want? If so, do you struggle with any cognitive dissonance between the two beliefs? Mr" I think conditioning will obviously depend on the family setup. The parents' relationship, siblings, grandparents. Even before children reach school age, they've absorbed rules and lessons about how to behave as you observe. Girls are more frequently told to smile. A very simple example that carries into adulthood. I received a message yesterday telling me that. I'm pretty sure every woman on the site has been told to smile by a stranger. And that's to make herself look better to please those around her. It's a small example of being conditioned to please. There is a great deal more to read on the subject I'm sure. As to our second point - do you see me blaming the guy for what happened? I made a stupid choice that led me to that situation. I'm not excusing myself - I've repeatedly acknowledged it was my stupid behaviour. But I also acknowledge for myself and others that being conditioned to please someone (and for me it's also over two decades of gaslighting) is a factor. And it's down to me to recognise that and then do something about it. And I am. | |||
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"Got into a heated argument with a male friend after his gf dumped him, really upset him & embarrassed him in front of people. We were all drinking & things got a bit carried away, i took him upstairs & rode him. I would never have done that if we hadn't had the argument & i felt so awful for it.
That sounds a crap experience all round. "It was a shit situation & i genuinely hurt him. We live & learn | |||
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"There is a lot of talk on here about women being conditioned to please. Out of interest, those who believe this, who do you believe does the conditioning? Is it as a child by your parents? In school? Presumably it can't be a partner expecting to be pleased because in this situation you would refuse unless you had already been conditioned. What conditioning behaviour do you believe you experience that men/boys don't? I'm not disagreeing that this happens, I'm just curious to hear your experience as a guy who was genuinely raised to consider others first in every situation. A basic example would be of walking in public, if I wasn't paying attention to where I was going and got in someone's way my dad would grab whatever was nearest - often my ear - to move me. I soon learned to pay attention when out and be polite enough not to obstruct others. I was also taught that although I may find some behaviors acceptable, if I knew they upset others to not do them around those people even if I didn't understand what the problem was - there were a lot of these as a child, the members of my parents church had barely moved on from about 1936. I've always seen the way I was raised as simple courtesy and manners so I am curious about what it takes to condition a pleaser. As a separate question do you also believe women are strong, independent, intelligent people able to make their own decisions and live their lives how they want? If so, do you struggle with any cognitive dissonance between the two beliefs? Mr I don't think believing that women are able to make their own decisions and believing in societal conditioning are mutually exclusive. We are none of us simple binary creatures, there are always shades of grey. I remember an article from a magazine I read as a teenager about quick hair and makeup fixes. "The phone rings - it's HIM and he says he'll be round in five minutes. But you're still wearing your crumpled school uniform, hair unwashed and crusty mascara on your lashes! Don't worry, our quick fixes will sort you out." At the time I thought it was a useful article. I didn't see the undercurrent of "you, as you are, are not good enough." It is subtle. A drip drip drip effect. I have a male friend who I've known for many years. We have a large circle of mutual friends. When he's had a drink he gets a bit handsy. He puts his arm around me and lets it slide a bit too low, down to my bum. I know I'm not the only person he's done this to, either. Always in company. Have I pulled him up on it? No. Why not? Because it's awkward, it makes a scene, I know his wife and don't want to upset her, because it would cause ructions in our social circle - even though it's an open secret - because it's not "that big a deal", because I don't want people to think I'm causing trouble or seeking attention. Hmm. Even writing this down makes it sound ridiculous. I know what I should do. But I haven't. And yes, I do consider myself a feminist, I know my own mind, etc etc. And yet... Societal conditioning runs deep. I could talk about this for days. Mrs TMN x" I posted at the same times. I relate so much to what you've said. I had a social meet the other week and the guy was quite difficult. He brought up politics, criticised my parenting, the waitress's outfit and so forth. He eventually walked out on me when I made a joke he didn't like. But I smoothed things over, tried to steer the conversation to safe subjects. I didn't realise until he'd left. Conditioning. | |||
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"I did as he had travelled a long way and I felt bad that in person I had no attraction to him "I've had a few people say this - men and women. It's the same as not wanting to say no to messages - guilt at not being attracted to someone. | |||
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"There is a lot of talk on here about women being conditioned to please. Out of interest, those who believe this, who do you believe does the conditioning? Is it as a child by your parents? In school? Presumably it can't be a partner expecting to be pleased because in this situation you would refuse unless you had already been conditioned. What conditioning behaviour do you believe you experience that men/boys don't? I'm not disagreeing that this happens, I'm just curious to hear your experience as a guy who was genuinely raised to consider others first in every situation. A basic example would be of walking in public, if I wasn't paying attention to where I was going and got in someone's way my dad would grab whatever was nearest - often my ear - to move me. I soon learned to pay attention when out and be polite enough not to obstruct others. I was also taught that although I may find some behaviors acceptable, if I knew they upset others to not do them around those people even if I didn't understand what the problem was - there were a lot of these as a child, the members of my parents church had barely moved on from about 1936. I've always seen the way I was raised as simple courtesy and manners so I am curious about what it takes to condition a pleaser. As a separate question do you also believe women are strong, independent, intelligent people able to make their own decisions and live their lives how they want? If so, do you struggle with any cognitive dissonance between the two beliefs? Mr I don't think believing that women are able to make their own decisions and believing in societal conditioning are mutually exclusive. We are none of us simple binary creatures, there are always shades of grey. I remember an article from a magazine I read as a teenager about quick hair and makeup fixes. "The phone rings - it's HIM and he says he'll be round in five minutes. But you're still wearing your crumpled school uniform, hair unwashed and crusty mascara on your lashes! Don't worry, our quick fixes will sort you out." At the time I thought it was a useful article. I didn't see the undercurrent of "you, as you are, are not good enough." It is subtle. A drip drip drip effect. I have a male friend who I've known for many years. We have a large circle of mutual friends. When he's had a drink he gets a bit handsy. He puts his arm around me and lets it slide a bit too low, down to my bum. I know I'm not the only person he's done this to, either. Always in company. Have I pulled him up on it? No. Why not? Because it's awkward, it makes a scene, I know his wife and don't want to upset her, because it would cause ructions in our social circle - even though it's an open secret - because it's not "that big a deal", because I don't want people to think I'm causing trouble or seeking attention. Hmm. Even writing this down makes it sound ridiculous. I know what I should do. But I haven't. And yes, I do consider myself a feminist, I know my own mind, etc etc. And yet... Societal conditioning runs deep. I could talk about this for days. Mrs TMN x" | |||
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" As to our second point - do you see me blaming the guy for what happened? I made a stupid choice that led me to that situation. I'm not excusing myself - I've repeatedly acknowledged it was my stupid behaviour. But I also acknowledge for myself and others that being conditioned to please someone (and for me it's also over two decades of gaslighting) is a factor. And it's down to me to recognise that and then do something about it. And I am. " I'm not suggesting at all that you blame the guy. I was just questioning the thought process behind believing both that you have been conditioned and that you are independent. Mrs TMN's post addressed this remarkably well I thought. As was pointed out we are all a mix of shades and contradictions. I find it fascinating and when I ask questions, I'm genuinely curious to hear the answers, it is not a way of creating a veiled dig at someone. Mr | |||
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" As to our second point - do you see me blaming the guy for what happened? I made a stupid choice that led me to that situation. I'm not excusing myself - I've repeatedly acknowledged it was my stupid behaviour. But I also acknowledge for myself and others that being conditioned to please someone (and for me it's also over two decades of gaslighting) is a factor. And it's down to me to recognise that and then do something about it. And I am. I'm not suggesting at all that you blame the guy. I was just questioning the thought process behind believing both that you have been conditioned and that you are independent. Mrs TMN's post addressed this remarkably well I thought. As was pointed out we are all a mix of shades and contradictions. I find it fascinating and when I ask questions, I'm genuinely curious to hear the answers, it is not a way of creating a veiled dig at someone. Mr" That's good to hear as it seemed a veiled dig and been the same on a couple of other threads. | |||
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" As to our second point - do you see me blaming the guy for what happened? I made a stupid choice that led me to that situation. I'm not excusing myself - I've repeatedly acknowledged it was my stupid behaviour. But I also acknowledge for myself and others that being conditioned to please someone (and for me it's also over two decades of gaslighting) is a factor. And it's down to me to recognise that and then do something about it. And I am. I'm not suggesting at all that you blame the guy. I was just questioning the thought process behind believing both that you have been conditioned and that you are independent. Mrs TMN's post addressed this remarkably well I thought. As was pointed out we are all a mix of shades and contradictions. I find it fascinating and when I ask questions, I'm genuinely curious to hear the answers, it is not a way of creating a veiled dig at someone. Mr That's good to hear as it seemed a veiled dig and been the same on a couple of other threads. " Just because someone has a difference of opinion/view it doesn’t mean it’s a dig. You think that, whereas I think he’s probably one of the only people on here who speaks sense most of the time. | |||
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" As to our second point - do you see me blaming the guy for what happened? I made a stupid choice that led me to that situation. I'm not excusing myself - I've repeatedly acknowledged it was my stupid behaviour. But I also acknowledge for myself and others that being conditioned to please someone (and for me it's also over two decades of gaslighting) is a factor. And it's down to me to recognise that and then do something about it. And I am. I'm not suggesting at all that you blame the guy. I was just questioning the thought process behind believing both that you have been conditioned and that you are independent. Mrs TMN's post addressed this remarkably well I thought. As was pointed out we are all a mix of shades and contradictions. I find it fascinating and when I ask questions, I'm genuinely curious to hear the answers, it is not a way of creating a veiled dig at someone. Mr That's good to hear as it seemed a veiled dig and been the same on a couple of other threads. Just because someone has a difference of opinion/view it doesn’t mean it’s a dig. You think that, whereas I think he’s probably one of the only people on here who speaks sense most of the time. "I acknowledged his clarification, Nora. Am I one to always take a difference of opinion as a dig? I don't think so. And yes I agree he does speak a lot of sense. But it's pretty obvious to me when someone doesn't take to me. | |||
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"There is a lot of talk on here about women being conditioned to please. Out of interest, those who believe this, who do you believe does the conditioning? Is it as a child by your parents? In school? Presumably it can't be a partner expecting to be pleased because in this situation you would refuse unless you had already been conditioned. What conditioning behaviour do you believe you experience that men/boys don't? I'm not disagreeing that this happens, I'm just curious to hear your experience as a guy who was genuinely raised to consider others first in every situation. A basic example would be of walking in public, if I wasn't paying attention to where I was going and got in someone's way my dad would grab whatever was nearest - often my ear - to move me. I soon learned to pay attention when out and be polite enough not to obstruct others. I was also taught that although I may find some behaviors acceptable, if I knew they upset others to not do them around those people even if I didn't understand what the problem was - there were a lot of these as a child, the members of my parents church had barely moved on from about 1936. I've always seen the way I was raised as simple courtesy and manners so I am curious about what it takes to condition a pleaser. As a separate question do you also believe women are strong, independent, intelligent people able to make their own decisions and live their lives how they want? If so, do you struggle with any cognitive dissonance between the two beliefs? Mr I don't think believing that women are able to make their own decisions and believing in societal conditioning are mutually exclusive. We are none of us simple binary creatures, there are always shades of grey. I remember an article from a magazine I read as a teenager about quick hair and makeup fixes. "The phone rings - it's HIM and he says he'll be round in five minutes. But you're still wearing your crumpled school uniform, hair unwashed and crusty mascara on your lashes! Don't worry, our quick fixes will sort you out." At the time I thought it was a useful article. I didn't see the undercurrent of "you, as you are, are not good enough." It is subtle. A drip drip drip effect. I have a male friend who I've known for many years. We have a large circle of mutual friends. When he's had a drink he gets a bit handsy. He puts his arm around me and lets it slide a bit too low, down to my bum. I know I'm not the only person he's done this to, either. Always in company. Have I pulled him up on it? No. Why not? Because it's awkward, it makes a scene, I know his wife and don't want to upset her, because it would cause ructions in our social circle - even though it's an open secret - because it's not "that big a deal", because I don't want people to think I'm causing trouble or seeking attention. Hmm. Even writing this down makes it sound ridiculous. I know what I should do. But I haven't. And yes, I do consider myself a feminist, I know my own mind, etc etc. And yet... Societal conditioning runs deep. I could talk about this for days. Mrs TMN x" This is very well written. I’ve been conditioned by my parents, and then by my husband to please, or face unpleasant consequences of some sort or another. I’m 2 1/2 years out of that now, and am slowly healing that, but it is hard to do, to change a lifetime of habit. | |||
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"In the beginning on here in 2018 I did have sex with some men because I thought I should as I'd agreed to meet them - I'd been raised to put others before myself and to be a people pleaser etc but I met a great guy on here who boosted my confidence and self esteem and taught me that just because I've agreed to a meet doesn't mean I have to have sex with them but be nice about it as some might turn nasty - only one has turned nasty he lied about his age by about 15yrs and used old pics so when I got there I politely told him that I couldn't do it and when he asked why I explained that he was older than he had said and looked very different to his photos he got very aggressive so I ran out to my car, locked the doors and left! I'm much better about saying no now and not having guilt sex" Ah I'm so glad for you - it's empowering to take charge and realise what you need to change. Having boundaries is powerful. That older guy though - Jesus.  | |||
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I didn't give him it though | |||
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"There have been a few I wish I hadn’t gone through with but guilt of letting them down as you could tell they were desperate was just too much. " I think there was a quote further up about seeing that letting yourself down matters more than letting others down. But in the moment - I've done the same - let the guilt rule me. | |||
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"There is a lot of talk on here about women being conditioned to please. Out of interest, those who believe this, who do you believe does the conditioning? Is it as a child by your parents? In school? Presumably it can't be a partner expecting to be pleased because in this situation you would refuse unless you had already been conditioned. What conditioning behaviour do you believe you experience that men/boys don't? I'm not disagreeing that this happens, I'm just curious to hear your experience as a guy who was genuinely raised to consider others first in every situation. A basic example would be of walking in public, if I wasn't paying attention to where I was going and got in someone's way my dad would grab whatever was nearest - often my ear - to move me. I soon learned to pay attention when out and be polite enough not to obstruct others. I was also taught that although I may find some behaviors acceptable, if I knew they upset others to not do them around those people even if I didn't understand what the problem was - there were a lot of these as a child, the members of my parents church had barely moved on from about 1936. I've always seen the way I was raised as simple courtesy and manners so I am curious about what it takes to condition a pleaser. As a separate question do you also believe women are strong, independent, intelligent people able to make their own decisions and live their lives how they want? If so, do you struggle with any cognitive dissonance between the two beliefs? Mr I don't think believing that women are able to make their own decisions and believing in societal conditioning are mutually exclusive. We are none of us simple binary creatures, there are always shades of grey. I remember an article from a magazine I read as a teenager about quick hair and makeup fixes. "The phone rings - it's HIM and he says he'll be round in five minutes. But you're still wearing your crumpled school uniform, hair unwashed and crusty mascara on your lashes! Don't worry, our quick fixes will sort you out." At the time I thought it was a useful article. I didn't see the undercurrent of "you, as you are, are not good enough." It is subtle. A drip drip drip effect. I have a male friend who I've known for many years. We have a large circle of mutual friends. When he's had a drink he gets a bit handsy. He puts his arm around me and lets it slide a bit too low, down to my bum. I know I'm not the only person he's done this to, either. Always in company. Have I pulled him up on it? No. Why not? Because it's awkward, it makes a scene, I know his wife and don't want to upset her, because it would cause ructions in our social circle - even though it's an open secret - because it's not "that big a deal", because I don't want people to think I'm causing trouble or seeking attention. Hmm. Even writing this down makes it sound ridiculous. I know what I should do. But I haven't. And yes, I do consider myself a feminist, I know my own mind, etc etc. And yet... Societal conditioning runs deep. I could talk about this for days. Mrs TMN x This is very well written. I’ve been conditioned by my parents, and then by my husband to please, or face unpleasant consequences of some sort or another. I’m 2 1/2 years out of that now, and am slowly healing that, but it is hard to do, to change a lifetime of habit." Often I didn't even know what the unpleasant consequences are - do you know what I mean! ? Just a feeling of dread and the urge to do as suggested. Yes it absolutely takes time and energy to shake that off. | |||
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"I've never done it but somebody once wanted one because he said he was terminal I didn't give him it though " Wow, really? I'm glad you didn't. | |||
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"This thread has been a really interesting read. X" Hasn't it? I never know where things will go but then people open up...thanks to everyone who has posted (thread hasn't got long to go). | |||
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"I've never done it but somebody once wanted one because he said he was terminal I didn't give him it though
Wow, really? I'm glad you didn't. "Yeah not really sure if he was telling the truth or not lol. Besides, no one should put anyone in an awkward position like that x | |||
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"Well I pity those who have it with me and it makes me feel really, really guilty. Is that the same thing? "You know fine well it isn't! | |||
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"I've never done it but somebody once wanted one because he said he was terminal I didn't give him it though
Wow, really? I'm glad you didn't.
Yeah not really sure if he was telling the truth or not lol. Besides, no one should put anyone in an awkward position like that x"They certainly shouldn't! | |||
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"I have. I wish I'd climbed out of the cafe window rather than gone through with it. Just nope. Bad judgement call but I felt so bad for him, I didn't back out. Surely I am not the only one?" Did you just lay there ... did he read the signals you weren't giving enthusiastic consent | |||
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"I have. I wish I'd climbed out of the cafe window rather than gone through with it. Just nope. Bad judgement call but I felt so bad for him, I didn't back out. Surely I am not the only one? Did you just lay there ... did he read the signals you weren't giving enthusiastic consent " I think there are many examples in this thread where others didn't read the signals and enthusiastic consent wasn't given. Mine included. But as I said earlier - I am not putting blame on him. I put myself in that position and at no point said no. | |||
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"I have. I wish I'd climbed out of the cafe window rather than gone through with it. Just nope. Bad judgement call but I felt so bad for him, I didn't back out. Surely I am not the only one? Did you just lay there ... did he read the signals you weren't giving enthusiastic consent I think there are many examples in this thread where others didn't read the signals and enthusiastic consent wasn't given. Mine included. But as I said earlier - I am not putting blame on him. I put myself in that position and at no point said no. " Are you people pleasing right here, OP? | |||
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