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"Nobody living in a western country is living in "poverty" or what some do fooder think tank decides what poverty is. Take a trip to India, China, Africa or any far east country where people die at the road side completely unnoticed by the rest of society. THAT is poverty. " Completely different types of poverty. Have you seen both? | |||
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"I have just watched the news about the extreme poverty issues facing many families in the UK. They interviewed a married lady who said she had to choose between eating and heating and goes without one meal daily, in order to ensure her two young children eat. She is married and is a housewife so they only have her husband's low income to rely on. My heart went out to her, until she said she had been in this situation for a few years now and in that time, she had given birth to two children (aged 3 years and 1 year) ......and she is pregnant again!!! Am I missing something here??? "No, that's how they stay warm. | |||
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"Nobody living in a western country is living in "poverty" or what some do fooder think tank decides what poverty is. Take a trip to India, China, Africa or any far east country where people die at the road side completely unnoticed by the rest of society. THAT is poverty. " Relative poverty and absolute poverty. | |||
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"Nobody living in a western country is living in "poverty" or what some do fooder think tank decides what poverty is. Take a trip to India, China, Africa or any far east country where people die at the road side completely unnoticed by the rest of society. THAT is poverty. " We can debate the semantics and you are probably correct. But it still doesn't explain to me, why she and her husband would continue having children if their financial circumstances are so dreadful | |||
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"Nobody living in a western country is living in "poverty" or what some do fooder think tank decides what poverty is. Take a trip to India, China, Africa or any far east country where people die at the road side completely unnoticed by the rest of society. THAT is poverty. We can debate the semantics and you are probably correct. But it still doesn't explain to me, why she and her husband would continue having children if their financial circumstances are so dreadful" I sometimes despair at the choices people make given their circumstances. But if you're suggesting people should have a minimum income before they choose to have children that's a shitty society. | |||
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"Nobody living in a western country is living in "poverty" or what some do fooder think tank decides what poverty is. Take a trip to India, China, Africa or any far east country where people die at the road side completely unnoticed by the rest of society. THAT is poverty. We can debate the semantics and you are probably correct. But it still doesn't explain to me, why she and her husband would continue having children if their financial circumstances are so dreadful" I'm not saying that this is the case with this woman but friends of mine ended up with five children the oldest of who was five due to contraception failure twice. Their last pregnancy was twins. They went through a period of being extremely poor to the extent that neighbours gave them food. I think it's quite easy to form opinions about people's situations based on small media sound bites, we don't always know the full story | |||
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"Nobody living in a western country is living in "poverty" or what some do fooder think tank decides what poverty is. Take a trip to India, China, Africa or any far east country where people die at the road side completely unnoticed by the rest of society. THAT is poverty. We can debate the semantics and you are probably correct. But it still doesn't explain to me, why she and her husband would continue having children if their financial circumstances are so dreadful I'm not saying that this is the case with this woman but friends of mine ended up with five children the oldest of who was five due to contraception failure twice. Their last pregnancy was twins. They went through a period of being extremely poor to the extent that neighbours gave them food. I think it's quite easy to form opinions about people's situations based on small media sound bites, we don't always know the full story "  agree | |||
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"Nobody living in a western country is living in "poverty" or what some do fooder think tank decides what poverty is. Take a trip to India, China, Africa or any far east country where people die at the road side completely unnoticed by the rest of society. THAT is poverty. We can debate the semantics and you are probably correct. But it still doesn't explain to me, why she and her husband would continue having children if their financial circumstances are so dreadful I sometimes despair at the choices people make given their circumstances. But if you're suggesting people should have a minimum income before they choose to have children that's a shitty society." yep | |||
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"Nobody living in a western country is living in "poverty" or what some do fooder think tank decides what poverty is. Take a trip to India, China, Africa or any far east country where people die at the road side completely unnoticed by the rest of society. THAT is poverty. " Exactly watched the news last night with tears in my eyes at seeing the starving children in Afghanistan. | |||
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"Nobody living in a western country is living in "poverty" or what some do fooder think tank decides what poverty is. Take a trip to India, China, Africa or any far east country where people die at the road side completely unnoticed by the rest of society. THAT is poverty. We can debate the semantics and you are probably correct. But it still doesn't explain to me, why she and her husband would continue having children if their financial circumstances are so dreadful I sometimes despair at the choices people make given their circumstances. But if you're suggesting people should have a minimum income before they choose to have children that's a shitty society." If I couldn't afford to feed myself then I wouldn't deliberately plan to have children. Yes it is shitty but it's more shitty for the children! They didn't ask for that. It's cruel. Anyway it's not like she doesn't already have children. But she is continuing to bring more children into a world in which she can barely put food in their mouths . | |||
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"Nobody living in a western country is living in "poverty" or what some do fooder think tank decides what poverty is. Take a trip to India, China, Africa or any far east country where people die at the road side completely unnoticed by the rest of society. THAT is poverty. We can debate the semantics and you are probably correct. But it still doesn't explain to me, why she and her husband would continue having children if their financial circumstances are so dreadful I sometimes despair at the choices people make given their circumstances. But if you're suggesting people should have a minimum income before they choose to have children that's a shitty society." Its not a shitty society to tell ppl to have a minimum income before having kids. Is it shitty to consider the wellfare and upbringing of the children? In my eyes its shitty of the parents to decide to have kids in the very poor financial situation. Knowing full well that sacrifices become a necessity, much to the detriment to the upbringing of the child/children. I would not disagree with anyone who told me i cant/shouldnt have kids while being in my financial situation, as im well aware that to do so would be a very poor choice for me. Its common sense at the end of the day, have kids in a very poor financial situation and both the parents and children can struggle as a result, or have kids when the parents are more financially stable and be able to provide them with a better life and upbringing. | |||
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"Nobody living in a western country is living in "poverty" or what some do fooder think tank decides what poverty is. Take a trip to India, China, Africa or any far east country where people die at the road side completely unnoticed by the rest of society. THAT is poverty. We can debate the semantics and you are probably correct. But it still doesn't explain to me, why she and her husband would continue having children if their financial circumstances are so dreadful I'm not saying that this is the case with this woman but friends of mine ended up with five children the oldest of who was five due to contraception failure twice. Their last pregnancy was twins. They went through a period of being extremely poor to the extent that neighbours gave them food. I think it's quite easy to form opinions about people's situations based on small media sound bites, we don't always know the full story agree"That is true. Although I know of similar situations myself where this is the case. Of course people will say I am bring judgemental and they are right! I AM judging. I am judging the rights of the unborn children. It's cruel. | |||
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"Nobody living in a western country is living in "poverty" or what some do fooder think tank decides what poverty is. Take a trip to India, China, Africa or any far east country where people die at the road side completely unnoticed by the rest of society. THAT is poverty. We can debate the semantics and you are probably correct. But it still doesn't explain to me, why she and her husband would continue having children if their financial circumstances are so dreadful I sometimes despair at the choices people make given their circumstances. But if you're suggesting people should have a minimum income before they choose to have children that's a shitty society. Its not a shitty society to tell ppl to have a minimum income before having kids. Is it shitty to consider the wellfare and upbringing of the children? In my eyes its shitty of the parents to decide to have kids in the very poor financial situation. Knowing full well that sacrifices become a necessity, much to the detriment to the upbringing of the child/children. I would not disagree with anyone who told me i cant/shouldnt have kids while being in my financial situation, as im well aware that to do so would be a very poor choice for me. Its common sense at the end of the day, have kids in a very poor financial situation and both the parents and children can struggle as a result, or have kids when the parents are more financially stable and be able to provide them with a better life and upbringing." What restrictions would you accept on your right to have children? | |||
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"Nobody living in a western country is living in "poverty" or what some do fooder think tank decides what poverty is. Take a trip to India, China, Africa or any far east country where people die at the road side completely unnoticed by the rest of society. THAT is poverty. We can debate the semantics and you are probably correct. But it still doesn't explain to me, why she and her husband would continue having children if their financial circumstances are so dreadful I'm not saying that this is the case with this woman but friends of mine ended up with five children the oldest of who was five due to contraception failure twice. Their last pregnancy was twins. They went through a period of being extremely poor to the extent that neighbours gave them food. I think it's quite easy to form opinions about people's situations based on small media sound bites, we don't always know the full story " There are always going to be exceptional situations like unplanned pregnancies. I get that completely. But I think it's very different. It just makes me weep for the children. There are long lasting consequences of a malnourished childhood. | |||
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But this teacher has done wonders and provided loads up and down the country for a lot of families not only donating a bed but other essentials that some didn’t have.
It’s ignorant to compare it with other countries as someone posted above there are lots of people living in dire conditions here due to whatever circumstances or unforeseen circumstances. | |||
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"Nobody living in a western country is living in "poverty" or what some do fooder think tank decides what poverty is. Take a trip to India, China, Africa or any far east country where people die at the road side completely unnoticed by the rest of society. THAT is poverty. " . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ________ . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . ,.-‘”. . . . . . . . . .``~., . . . . . . . .. . . . . .,.-”. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .“-., . . . . .. . . . . . ..,/. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ”:, . . . . . . . .. .,?. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .\, . . . . . . . . . /. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,} . . . . . . . . ./. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,:`^`.} . . . . . . . ./. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,:”. . . ./ . . . . . . .?. . . __. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . :`. . . ./ . . . . . . . /__.(. . .“~-,_. . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,:`. . . .. ./ . . . . . . /(_. . ”~,_. . . ..“~,_. . . . . . . . . .,:`. . . . _/ . . . .. .{.._$;_. . .”=,_. . . .“-,_. . . ,.-~-,}, .~”; /. .. .} . . .. . .((. . .*~_. . . .”=-._. . .“;,,./`. . /” . . . ./. .. ../ . . . .. . .\`~,. . ..“~.,. . . . . . . . . ..`. . .}. . . . . . ../ . . . . . .(. ..`=-,,. . . .`. . . . . . . . . . . ..(. . . ;_,,-” . . . . . ../.`~,. . ..`-.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..\. . /\ . . . . . . \`~.*-,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..|,./.....\,__ ,,_. . . . . }.-._\. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|. . . . . . ..`=~-, . .. `=~-,_\_. . . `\,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .\ . . . . . . . . . .`=~-,,.\,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .\ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . `:,, . . . . . . . . . . . . . `\. . . . . . ..__ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .`=-,. . . . . . . . . .,%`--==`` . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . _\. . . . . ._,-%. . . ..`\ | |||
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"Nobody living in a western country is living in "poverty" or what some do fooder think tank decides what poverty is. Take a trip to India, China, Africa or any far east country where people die at the road side completely unnoticed by the rest of society. THAT is poverty. We can debate the semantics and you are probably correct. But it still doesn't explain to me, why she and her husband would continue having children if their financial circumstances are so dreadful I sometimes despair at the choices people make given their circumstances. But if you're suggesting people should have a minimum income before they choose to have children that's a shitty society. Its not a shitty society to tell ppl to have a minimum income before having kids. Is it shitty to consider the wellfare and upbringing of the children? In my eyes its shitty of the parents to decide to have kids in the very poor financial situation. Knowing full well that sacrifices become a necessity, much to the detriment to the upbringing of the child/children. I would not disagree with anyone who told me i cant/shouldnt have kids while being in my financial situation, as im well aware that to do so would be a very poor choice for me. Its common sense at the end of the day, have kids in a very poor financial situation and both the parents and children can struggle as a result, or have kids when the parents are more financially stable and be able to provide them with a better life and upbringing. What restrictions would you accept on your right to have children?" Financial as the obvious choice given the topic of the thread, beyond that then it really depends on other factors less relevant to the topic i.e. mental health. One of the biggest causes to a vast majority of societies problems is the freedom to procreate, consumer demand, overpopulation, community funding, housing, reliance on resources etc. Sex is one thing but bringing another life into the world seems to be taken for granted these days. Sure it doesnt sound nice or fair that not everyone should have kids but giving that freedom for the sole purpose of "freedom" and "rights" and "morality" is just insanely ignorant to the bigger picture. What about the welfare of the children born to into ever increasing poor households? What about the diminishing opportunities for those children having so little to begin with? What about the money needed to go into benefits to support these families growing in number both on an individual and community scale? Funding which will affect everyone as a whole in more than a few ways. How much do children, families, and society as a whole, have to struggle before ppl realise "this is getting out of hand, something needs to change"? | |||
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"Nobody living in a western country is living in "poverty" or what some do fooder think tank decides what poverty is. Take a trip to India, China, Africa or any far east country where people die at the road side completely unnoticed by the rest of society. THAT is poverty. We can debate the semantics and you are probably correct. But it still doesn't explain to me, why she and her husband would continue having children if their financial circumstances are so dreadful I sometimes despair at the choices people make given their circumstances. But if you're suggesting people should have a minimum income before they choose to have children that's a shitty society. Its not a shitty society to tell ppl to have a minimum income before having kids. Is it shitty to consider the wellfare and upbringing of the children? In my eyes its shitty of the parents to decide to have kids in the very poor financial situation. Knowing full well that sacrifices become a necessity, much to the detriment to the upbringing of the child/children. I would not disagree with anyone who told me i cant/shouldnt have kids while being in my financial situation, as im well aware that to do so would be a very poor choice for me. Its common sense at the end of the day, have kids in a very poor financial situation and both the parents and children can struggle as a result, or have kids when the parents are more financially stable and be able to provide them with a better life and upbringing. What restrictions would you accept on your right to have children? Financial as the obvious choice given the topic of the thread, beyond that then it really depends on other factors less relevant to the topic i.e. mental health. One of the biggest causes to a vast majority of societies problems is the freedom to procreate, consumer demand, overpopulation, community funding, housing, reliance on resources etc. Sex is one thing but bringing another life into the world seems to be taken for granted these days. Sure it doesnt sound nice or fair that not everyone should have kids but giving that freedom for the sole purpose of "freedom" and "rights" and "morality" is just insanely ignorant to the bigger picture. What about the welfare of the children born to into ever increasing poor households? What about the diminishing opportunities for those children having so little to begin with? What about the money needed to go into benefits to support these families growing in number both on an individual and community scale? Funding which will affect everyone as a whole in more than a few ways. How much do children, families, and society as a whole, have to struggle before ppl realise "this is getting out of hand, something needs to change"?" Who would decide on the financial and mental health criteria? We could afford our children when they were born but a couple of years down the line we were in serious financial difficulty and needed benefits. How would we limit fertility of those deemed "unfit" or "unsuitable" to have children? | |||
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"I think most is probably due to personal circumstances changing. Losing a job, cost of living sky rocketing, benefits being cut/capped, childcare fees being very expensive (regardless of where you live), some people just aren’t educated about their options/precautions and obviously going from a two income family to a one income family. There’s a whole myriad of reasons really. I don’t think people sit down and think about how much raising a child costs. I believe the average number of children is less than it was a few years ago. I may be wrong though. What’s the alternative? Criminalising parenthood unless you have £100,000 in the bank to raise a child? " I think that "the poor" are still being demonised. The root causes of poverty need to be looked at rather than placing restrictions on who can have children based on their income. | |||
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"Nobody living in a western country is living in "poverty" or what some do fooder think tank decides what poverty is. Take a trip to India, China, Africa or any far east country where people die at the road side completely unnoticed by the rest of society. THAT is poverty. We can debate the semantics and you are probably correct. But it still doesn't explain to me, why she and her husband would continue having children if their financial circumstances are so dreadful I sometimes despair at the choices people make given their circumstances. But if you're suggesting people should have a minimum income before they choose to have children that's a shitty society. If I couldn't afford to feed myself then I wouldn't deliberately plan to have children. Yes it is shitty but it's more shitty for the children! They didn't ask for that. It's cruel. Anyway it's not like she doesn't already have children. But she is continuing to bring more children into a world in which she can barely put food in their mouths . " I agree. I’ve got an 11 year age gap which isn’t ideal. because I couldn’t afford another so I didn’t have one. Pisses me right off all these people on benefits with loads of kids. I feel for the poor kids but nothing for the parents I’m afraid. And yes I know there are exceptions. | |||
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"Nobody living in a western country is living in "poverty" or what some do fooder think tank decides what poverty is. Take a trip to India, China, Africa or any far east country where people die at the road side completely unnoticed by the rest of society. THAT is poverty. We can debate the semantics and you are probably correct. But it still doesn't explain to me, why she and her husband would continue having children if their financial circumstances are so dreadful I sometimes despair at the choices people make given their circumstances. But if you're suggesting people should have a minimum income before they choose to have children that's a shitty society. Its not a shitty society to tell ppl to have a minimum income before having kids. Is it shitty to consider the wellfare and upbringing of the children? In my eyes its shitty of the parents to decide to have kids in the very poor financial situation. Knowing full well that sacrifices become a necessity, much to the detriment to the upbringing of the child/children. I would not disagree with anyone who told me i cant/shouldnt have kids while being in my financial situation, as im well aware that to do so would be a very poor choice for me. Its common sense at the end of the day, have kids in a very poor financial situation and both the parents and children can struggle as a result, or have kids when the parents are more financially stable and be able to provide them with a better life and upbringing. What restrictions would you accept on your right to have children? Financial as the obvious choice given the topic of the thread, beyond that then it really depends on other factors less relevant to the topic i.e. mental health. One of the biggest causes to a vast majority of societies problems is the freedom to procreate, consumer demand, overpopulation, community funding, housing, reliance on resources etc. Sex is one thing but bringing another life into the world seems to be taken for granted these days. Sure it doesnt sound nice or fair that not everyone should have kids but giving that freedom for the sole purpose of "freedom" and "rights" and "morality" is just insanely ignorant to the bigger picture. What about the welfare of the children born to into ever increasing poor households? What about the diminishing opportunities for those children having so little to begin with? What about the money needed to go into benefits to support these families growing in number both on an individual and community scale? Funding which will affect everyone as a whole in more than a few ways. How much do children, families, and society as a whole, have to struggle before ppl realise "this is getting out of hand, something needs to change"? Who would decide on the financial and mental health criteria? We could afford our children when they were born but a couple of years down the line we were in serious financial difficulty and needed benefits. How would we limit fertility of those deemed "unfit" or "unsuitable" to have children? " Unsuitable would be the correct term in regards to financial capability to raise a child/children. 'Unfit' would be a better term to use for those who are mentally unstable or are "unfit" to raise children. But the decision making should be done by professionals and members of the community who are parents themselves, members of the community from all financial backgrounds in order to provide a greater level of perspective. Just hiring a bunch of "professionals" could skew the whole process in the wrong ways. As for long term financial security, if a family does fall into hard times after their children have been born then thats where the benefits system can step in. In its current format, while the benefits system can make a difference, it would be able to make a bigger difference if there was less strain put onto it in the first place with the sheer demand for benefits we see today. Coming into financial difficulty after youve had children when you were financially stable is one thing. Its an entirely different matter when ppl are allowed to have kids, and keep having them, when theyre already having financial difficulties and often to the most extreme degree. That is a real serious problem that needs to be addressed | |||
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"I think most is probably due to personal circumstances changing. Losing a job, cost of living sky rocketing, benefits being cut/capped, childcare fees being very expensive (regardless of where you live), some people just aren’t educated about their options/precautions and obviously going from a two income family to a one income family. There’s a whole myriad of reasons really. I don’t think people sit down and think about how much raising a child costs. I believe the average number of children is less than it was a few years ago. I may be wrong though. What’s the alternative? Criminalising parenthood unless you have £100,000 in the bank to raise a child? I think that "the poor" are still being demonised. The root causes of poverty need to be looked at rather than placing restrictions on who can have children based on their income. " This
People not taking into account so many factors, like if circumstances changed after they had already had their kids…. | |||
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"I think most is probably due to personal circumstances changing. Losing a job, cost of living sky rocketing, benefits being cut/capped, childcare fees being very expensive (regardless of where you live), some people just aren’t educated about their options/precautions and obviously going from a two income family to a one income family. There’s a whole myriad of reasons really. I don’t think people sit down and think about how much raising a child costs. I believe the average number of children is less than it was a few years ago. I may be wrong though. What’s the alternative? Criminalising parenthood unless you have £100,000 in the bank to raise a child? I think that "the poor" are still being demonised. The root causes of poverty need to be looked at rather than placing restrictions on who can have children based on their income. This
People not taking into account so many factors, like if circumstances changed after they had already had their kids…."I think actually you will find I have acknowledged changing factors and noone is suggesting you have to be rich to have children. That's ridiculous. The situation I am describing is someone is relying on food banks to feed their children and still deliberately gets pregnant again in the FULL KNOWLEDGE they can't feed that child . THAT is irresponsible. | |||
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"I think most is probably due to personal circumstances changing. Losing a job, cost of living sky rocketing, benefits being cut/capped, childcare fees being very expensive (regardless of where you live), some people just aren’t educated about their options/precautions and obviously going from a two income family to a one income family. There’s a whole myriad of reasons really. I don’t think people sit down and think about how much raising a child costs. I believe the average number of children is less than it was a few years ago. I may be wrong though. What’s the alternative? Criminalising parenthood unless you have £100,000 in the bank to raise a child? I think that "the poor" are still being demonised. The root causes of poverty need to be looked at rather than placing restrictions on who can have children based on their income. This
People not taking into account so many factors, like if circumstances changed after they had already had their kids….
I think actually you will find I have acknowledged changing factors and noone is suggesting you have to be rich to have children. That's ridiculous. The situation I am describing is someone is relying on food banks to feed their children and still deliberately gets pregnant again in the FULL KNOWLEDGE they can't feed that child . THAT is irresponsible. "I wasn’t talking directly to you, it’s a general comment to the thread. | |||
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"Dear applicant I regret to inform you that your application to have a child has been denied. The panel feel your time would be better spent doing shifts in a factory in order for you to afford to rent a flat with two bedrooms. Should you achieve this the panel would be willing to consider a future application from you. Please note if your income falls we reserve the right to remove your children. I wish you well with your career and extend my gratitude for the taxes you contribute to my future pension and healthcare. Sincerely The Board for Pregnancy Approvals" Seriously??? You go with your little 'joke' then. Meanwhile children are suffering severe malnourishment because 'some' people think it's their God given right to keep having babies they know can't even feed! You think that's ok then, do you? That's all fine with you? Because apparantly everyone has the 'right' to procreate so they must do so? Too much talk about people 'rights' these days and not enough about responsibility. If you can't afford to feed yourself, don't get pregnant . | |||
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"Dear applicant I regret to inform you that your application to have a child has been denied. The panel feel your time would be better spent doing shifts in a factory in order for you to afford to rent a flat with two bedrooms. Should you achieve this the panel would be willing to consider a future application from you. Please note if your income falls we reserve the right to remove your children. I wish you well with your career and extend my gratitude for the taxes you contribute to my future pension and healthcare. Sincerely The Board for Pregnancy Approvals" A few regimes in history have attempted this sort of thing for various allegedly acceptable reasons (according to the regime). I'll give my last breath to prevent anything like this from ever being accepted in this country. | |||
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"I think most is probably due to personal circumstances changing. Losing a job, cost of living sky rocketing, benefits being cut/capped, childcare fees being very expensive (regardless of where you live), some people just aren’t educated about their options/precautions and obviously going from a two income family to a one income family. There’s a whole myriad of reasons really. I don’t think people sit down and think about how much raising a child costs. I believe the average number of children is less than it was a few years ago. I may be wrong though. What’s the alternative? Criminalising parenthood unless you have £100,000 in the bank to raise a child? I think that "the poor" are still being demonised. The root causes of poverty need to be looked at rather than placing restrictions on who can have children based on their income. This
People not taking into account so many factors, like if circumstances changed after they had already had their kids…."Sorry I can't read what your saying I keep loosing concentration looking at those gorgeous tits and erect nipples of yours  | |||
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"No unfortunately stupidity breeds! Some of us ask ourselves if we can afford to have children and others simply tell themselves other people will pay for them to have children! Wonder why IQ is dropping! Only good news is due to the jab the average of the human IQ is increasing!" Have you ever seen the film 'Idiocrasy'? | |||
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"Dear applicant I regret to inform you that your application to have a child has been denied. The panel feel your time would be better spent doing shifts in a factory in order for you to afford to rent a flat with two bedrooms. Should you achieve this the panel would be willing to consider a future application from you. Please note if your income falls we reserve the right to remove your children. I wish you well with your career and extend my gratitude for the taxes you contribute to my future pension and healthcare. Sincerely The Board for Pregnancy Approvals A few regimes in history have attempted this sort of thing for various allegedly acceptable reasons (according to the regime). I'll give my last breath to prevent anything like this from ever being accepted in this country." | |||
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"I am going to have to get a strong drink and lie down before I blow a fuse, because some of the responses on here are truly eye watering! 2022 - It's ok everyone. Let's all have lots and lots of babies we know we can't clothe, or feed or house. We know that because we already several other kids we can't feed either!!! But that's ok! Let's keep getting pregnant and having more babies because it's our 'human right'!!! Women's rights!! What utter, ignorant bollocks! What a travesty the human race has become. " Op, this is obviously really triggering for you, and I’m sorry it is. I think people are just trying to offer different viewpoints. | |||
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"Dear applicant I regret to inform you that your application to have a child has been denied. The panel feel your time would be better spent doing shifts in a factory in order for you to afford to rent a flat with two bedrooms. Should you achieve this the panel would be willing to consider a future application from you. Please note if your income falls we reserve the right to remove your children. I wish you well with your career and extend my gratitude for the taxes you contribute to my future pension and healthcare. Sincerely The Board for Pregnancy Approvals A few regimes in history have attempted this sort of thing for various allegedly acceptable reasons (according to the regime). I'll give my last breath to prevent anything like this from ever being accepted in this country." For some children, it is their 'last breath' ! | |||
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"I am going to have to get a strong drink and lie down before I blow a fuse, because some of the responses on here are truly eye watering! 2022 - It's ok everyone. Let's all have lots and lots of babies we know we can't clothe, or feed or house. We know that because we already several other kids we can't feed either!!! But that's ok! Let's keep getting pregnant and having more babies because it's our 'human right'!!! Women's rights!! What utter, ignorant bollocks! What a travesty the human race has become. Op, this is obviously really triggering for you, and I’m sorry it is. I think people are just trying to offer different viewpoints. " 
It should be triggering for everyone. We are talking about children's lives here! Makes me hopping mad that people are so bloody selfish. | |||
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"Nobody living in a western country is living in "poverty" or what some do fooder think tank decides what poverty is. Take a trip to India, China, Africa or any far east country where people die at the road side completely unnoticed by the rest of society. THAT is poverty. We can debate the semantics and you are probably correct. But it still doesn't explain to me, why she and her husband would continue having children if their financial circumstances are so dreadful I sometimes despair at the choices people make given their circumstances. But if you're suggesting people should have a minimum income before they choose to have children that's a shitty society." That’s a fairly sensible society, if you can’t afford kids you should not be having them and expecting someone else to pay for them. | |||
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"Dear applicant I regret to inform you that your application to have a child has been denied. The panel feel your time would be better spent doing shifts in a factory in order for you to afford to rent a flat with two bedrooms. Should you achieve this the panel would be willing to consider a future application from you. Please note if your income falls we reserve the right to remove your children. I wish you well with your career and extend my gratitude for the taxes you contribute to my future pension and healthcare. Sincerely The Board for Pregnancy Approvals A few regimes in history have attempted this sort of thing for various allegedly acceptable reasons (according to the regime). I'll give my last breath to prevent anything like this from ever being accepted in this country. For some children, it is their 'last breath' ! " Someone, somewhere, back in the 1940s decided that my ancestors belonged to a sub-human race. Those somebodies decided that, as well as my sub-human race ancestors, they should prevent lots of other undesirable types from being able to pass on their genes. Their Final Solution to this issue lead to the mass slaughter of millions of people, including my ancestors. So yes, I'll give my last breath. As did my relatives, aged 2 months to 90 years when they were murdered by a regime that had been elected to rule. Forgive me for not caring one iota about your daft rant. | |||
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"I am going to have to get a strong drink and lie down before I blow a fuse, because some of the responses on here are truly eye watering! 2022 - It's ok everyone. Let's all have lots and lots of babies we know we can't clothe, or feed or house. We know that because we already several other kids we can't feed either!!! But that's ok! Let's keep getting pregnant and having more babies because it's our 'human right'!!! Women's rights!! What utter, ignorant bollocks! What a travesty the human race has become. Op, this is obviously really triggering for you, and I’m sorry it is. I think people are just trying to offer different viewpoints.
It should be triggering for everyone. We are talking about children's lives here! Makes me hopping mad that people are so bloody selfish. " xx | |||
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"I have just watched the news about the extreme poverty issues facing many families in the UK. They interviewed a married lady who said she had to choose between eating and heating and goes without one meal daily, in order to ensure her two young children eat. She is married and is a housewife so they only have her husband's low income to rely on. My heart went out to her, until she said she had been in this situation for a few years now and in that time, she had given birth to two children (aged 3 years and 1 year) ......and she is pregnant again!!! Am I missing something here??? "Yeah. The poor get shafted in this country. Oh. And she gave birth to more children. You seem to end with an implied moral judgement on this. If so, why? You know that comes across as rather fascist? - x person can have children, but y person who is economically poor can't. Amd if you did know that, man, i hope you're sterilised. | |||
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"Dear applicant I regret to inform you that your application to have a child has been denied. The panel feel your time would be better spent doing shifts in a factory in order for you to afford to rent a flat with two bedrooms. Should you achieve this the panel would be willing to consider a future application from you. Please note if your income falls we reserve the right to remove your children. I wish you well with your career and extend my gratitude for the taxes you contribute to my future pension and healthcare. Sincerely The Board for Pregnancy Approvals Seriously??? You go with your little 'joke' then. Meanwhile children are suffering severe malnourishment because 'some' people think it's their God given right to keep having babies they know can't even feed! You think that's ok then, do you? That's all fine with you? Because apparantly everyone has the 'right' to procreate so they must do so? Too much talk about people 'rights' these days and not enough about responsibility. If you can't afford to feed yourself, don't get pregnant . " | |||
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"I have just watched the news about the extreme poverty issues facing many families in the UK. They interviewed a married lady who said she had to choose between eating and heating and goes without one meal daily, in order to ensure her two young children eat. She is married and is a housewife so they only have her husband's low income to rely on. My heart went out to her, until she said she had been in this situation for a few years now and in that time, she had given birth to two children (aged 3 years and 1 year) ......and she is pregnant again!!! Am I missing something here???
Yeah. The poor get shafted in this country.
Oh. And she gave birth to more children. You seem to end with an implied moral judgement on this.
If so, why?
You know that comes across as rather fascist? - x person can have children, but y person who is economically poor can't.
Amd if you did know that, man, i hope you're sterilised. "I haven’t seen the op getting personal to individuals on this thread. Just the people who disagree with her seem to be. These kind of threads are always going to be split. Can’t we respect people’s opinions. | |||
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"Seriously??? You go with your little 'joke' then. Meanwhile children are suffering severe malnourishment because 'some' people think it's their God given right to keep having babies they know can't even feed! You think that's ok then, do you? That's all fine with you? Because apparantly everyone has the 'right' to procreate so they must do so? Too much talk about people 'rights' these days and not enough about responsibility. If you can't afford to feed yourself, don't get pregnant . " I wasn't making a joke. I was highlighting an extreme to what I consider to be done truly repugnant views, stirred up by you. Do I believe women have a 'god given right' to have children? Oddly enough, yes I do because the alternative is really horrible. | |||
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"I think most is probably due to personal circumstances changing. Losing a job, cost of living sky rocketing, benefits being cut/capped, childcare fees being very expensive (regardless of where you live), some people just aren’t educated about their options/precautions and obviously going from a two income family to a one income family. There’s a whole myriad of reasons really. I don’t think people sit down and think about how much raising a child costs. I believe the average number of children is less than it was a few years ago. I may be wrong though. What’s the alternative? Criminalising parenthood unless you have £100,000 in the bank to raise a child? I think that "the poor" are still being demonised. The root causes of poverty need to be looked at rather than placing restrictions on who can have children based on their income. " Stop being so compassionate. Anyone who doesn't have savings is to be sterilised immediately. Criminal record? Sterilise. Mental health problems? Sterilise. It's not as though following a policy of Eugenics has ever done anyone any harm is it? 
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"I am going to have to get a strong drink and lie down before I blow a fuse, because some of the responses on here are truly eye watering! 2022 - It's ok everyone. Let's all have lots and lots of babies we know we can't clothe, or feed or house. We know that because we already several other kids we can't feed either!!! But that's ok! Let's keep getting pregnant and having more babies because it's our 'human right'!!! Women's rights!! What utter, ignorant bollocks! What a travesty the human race has become. " People having children in adversity is EXACTLY what humans do. It does not appear rational or considered but it is a characteristic of species survival, pretty much hard coded into us. It is when people who are NOT in that situation look on that it is considered irrational. This thread also blurs the real issues of poverty (relative or absolute is a distraction) and personal anecdote ("I didn't/wouldn't") as a way of finger pointing and misdirection, like a Daily Mail expose. We believe we live in a civil society. Supporting others and the next generation is an absolute necessity, and poverty is evidence of our failure to do so. For those who think it is all just a personal choice, perhaps reading the background to Swift's "A Modest Proposal" might be useful before we use it to set up a new world order  | |||
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But I'm a woman. Just saying. (I'm the one who would stop the imposition of any form of eugenics type approach to deciding who should or should not be "permitted" to have children and used the example of past regimes who tried exactly that).
You'll also note that at no point have I said I think it's a great idea for children to be brought into the world with little/no prior planning. That has been extrapolated from heaven knows where.
I replied specifically to the comments by Bloo that, tongue somewhat in cheek, was trying to show how it might work to control who does or does not have children. I replied to say I'd give my dying breath to prevent such a situation ever being reality and I would.
Of course, in ideal circumstances, children would all be born into stable, financially secure homes blah blah but the only way to prevent the "poor" from reproducing is eugenics. Some of the comments on here about requiring people to have a minimum income before being "allowed" to have children etc ARE eugenics. And that is completely unacceptable.
We should, as others have said, push for proper living wages, adequate secure and affordable housing, properly funded schools and healthcare rather than trying to regulate who can or cannot get a hypothetical child bearing permit | |||
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"Imagine being 8 months pregnant then hubby gets made redundant then giving birth then having the baby repossessed like a Ford Escort" Which is obviously a situation I was not referring to, (well maybe you could do better than a Ford escort but I digress ) | |||
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"OP I get why this has rattled you but I don't think it helps to be dictating what people can or can't do. I don't see any raging against the individuals who could singlehandidly wipe out the debt of a small country or the people who sink billions into offshore accounts and people just sitting on more money than they know what to do with....people with real power... " My strong opinion ( not the same as a dictatorship) but on the latter point I quite agree with you and yes, I would indeed rage, if I thought I had any influence at all....which I don't. | |||
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"You know it really doesn't take much to tip someone into poverty.... fridge breaks - now you need to replace the fridge, or car breaks - you cant get to work on time, or electric bill increases - maybe all three happen ... And once there its a bloody hard slog out of the depths of despair. I hate that people, in their position of privilege, are judging others and choosing whether poor people should have children. If you can't understand it, go work in a crisis food provision and sit and listen and hear the stories that ordinary people go through, how they arrived there and the daily struggle to just survive. " Absolutely spot on
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"Nobody living in a western country is living in "poverty" or what some do fooder think tank decides what poverty is. Take a trip to India, China, Africa or any far east country where people die at the road side completely unnoticed by the rest of society. THAT is poverty. We can debate the semantics and you are probably correct. But it still doesn't explain to me, why she and her husband would continue having children if their financial circumstances are so dreadful I sometimes despair at the choices people make given their circumstances. But if you're suggesting people should have a minimum income before they choose to have children that's a shitty society." Definitely agree. | |||
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"OP I get why this has rattled you but I don't think it helps to be dictating what people can or can't do. I don't see any raging against the individuals who could singlehandidly wipe out the debt of a small country or the people who sink billions into offshore accounts and people just sitting on more money than they know what to do with....people with real power... My strong opinion ( not the same as a dictatorship) but on the latter point I quite agree with you and yes, I would indeed rage, if I thought I had any influence at all....which I don't. " But you still won't have influence so why is it ok to rage against the poorer demograph? Comes across as victim blaming to me... | |||
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"You know it really doesn't take much to tip someone into poverty.... fridge breaks - now you need to replace the fridge, or car breaks - you cant get to work on time, or electric bill increases - maybe all three happen ... And once there its a bloody hard slog out of the depths of despair. I hate that people, in their position of privilege, are judging others and choosing whether poor people should have children. If you can't understand it, go work in a crisis food provision and sit and listen and hear the stories that ordinary people go through, how they arrived there and the daily struggle to just survive. " I have...and I do. Weekly. I know about poverty. | |||
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"You know it really doesn't take much to tip someone into poverty.... fridge breaks - now you need to replace the fridge, or car breaks - you cant get to work on time, or electric bill increases - maybe all three happen ... And once there its a bloody hard slog out of the depths of despair. I hate that people, in their position of privilege, are judging others and choosing whether poor people should have children. If you can't understand it, go work in a crisis food provision and sit and listen and hear the stories that ordinary people go through, how they arrived there and the daily struggle to just survive. " Well said | |||
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"I think most is probably due to personal circumstances changing. Losing a job, cost of living sky rocketing, benefits being cut/capped, childcare fees being very expensive (regardless of where you live), some people just aren’t educated about their options/precautions and obviously going from a two income family to a one income family. There’s a whole myriad of reasons really. I don’t think people sit down and think about how much raising a child costs. I believe the average number of children is less than it was a few years ago. I may be wrong though. What’s the alternative? Criminalising parenthood unless you have £100,000 in the bank to raise a child? " I’d just like to clarify that I am not advocating my last paragraph, i just added it as a counter scenario. | |||
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"I think this conversation is going completely off tangent. You feel the need to convince me about the realities of poverty in the UK as if you think I don't already have real lived experience of it and I couldn't bear to have a baby in that situation I was in. It wasn't so much a choice even. It was an obvious conclusion ." What solution do you propose? | |||
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"I think this conversation is going completely off tangent. You feel the need to convince me about the realities of poverty in the UK as if you think I don't already have real lived experience of it and I couldn't bear to have a baby in that situation I was in. It wasn't so much a choice even. It was an obvious conclusion ." I was 16 when I had my first child. I brought him up on student loans and grants, having left home just after I was 18. He lacked nothing, as it happens but I know exactly what it's like to go without as a mother. I know exactly what it's like to have to choose the cheapest items in the discount shop or to raid the selling off trolley for damaged goods. I would certainly not recommend that as a conscious life choice but I also would not support any efforts to actively prevent people having children based on their income or frankly anything. The minute we start suggesting external agents can or should control conception, we go down a very dangerous path. | |||
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"You know it really doesn't take much to tip someone into poverty.... fridge breaks - now you need to replace the fridge, or car breaks - you cant get to work on time, or electric bill increases - maybe all three happen ... And once there its a bloody hard slog out of the depths of despair. I hate that people, in their position of privilege, are judging others and choosing whether poor people should have children. If you can't understand it, go work in a crisis food provision and sit and listen and hear the stories that ordinary people go through, how they arrived there and the daily struggle to just survive. Well said "And I said.....I do! I am NOT in a privalidged position at all! This is hilarious. I am dirt poor! I just wouldn't have a baby because I can't afford it! Simple. | |||
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"You know it really doesn't take much to tip someone into poverty.... fridge breaks - now you need to replace the fridge, or car breaks - you cant get to work on time, or electric bill increases - maybe all three happen ... And once there its a bloody hard slog out of the depths of despair. I hate that people, in their position of privilege, are judging others and choosing whether poor people should have children. If you can't understand it, go work in a crisis food provision and sit and listen and hear the stories that ordinary people go through, how they arrived there and the daily struggle to just survive. " Exactly this , so many families are suffering in silence through fear of being judged instead of being supported. Good on that lady for speaking out! Miss pc | |||
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"I think this conversation is going completely off tangent. You feel the need to convince me about the realities of poverty in the UK as if you think I don't already have real lived experience of it and I couldn't bear to have a baby in that situation I was in. It wasn't so much a choice even. It was an obvious conclusion . What solution do you propose?" In my situation, I couldn't have a baby which I very much wanted because I couldn't afford to feed and cloth it. | |||
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"I think this has been taken ridiculously out of context by some people! The original op was about people who can’t afford the children they’ve got having more and more children. Not stopping poorer people having children! " Thankyou. I am getting exhausted saying that. | |||
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"I think this has been taken ridiculously out of context by some people! The original op was about people who can’t afford the children they’ve got having more and more children. Not stopping poorer people having children! " But that final sentence is exactly what HAS been suggested when the question "how do you suggest we deal with people having children who can't afford it?" has been asked. That's why it's gone that way. | |||
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"I think this conversation is going completely off tangent. You feel the need to convince me about the realities of poverty in the UK as if you think I don't already have real lived experience of it and I couldn't bear to have a baby in that situation I was in. It wasn't so much a choice even. It was an obvious conclusion ." The conversation is evolving....there is a difference. And there in lies the problem, you are basing your views from your perceptions, perspectives and experiences...life and the people in it do not follow a linear trajectory. Not everyone thinks the way you do | |||
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"I think this conversation is going completely off tangent. You feel the need to convince me about the realities of poverty in the UK as if you think I don't already have real lived experience of it and I couldn't bear to have a baby in that situation I was in. It wasn't so much a choice even. It was an obvious conclusion . What solution do you propose? In my situation, I couldn't have a baby which I very much wanted because I couldn't afford to feed and cloth it. " That's not what I meant What solution do you propose that would stop these women from having more planned children? | |||
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"I think this has been taken ridiculously out of context by some people! The original op was about people who can’t afford the children they’ve got having more and more children. Not stopping poorer people having children! " We don't know anyone circumstances none of us do. Everybody hopes that their situation is going to improve and maybe somebody gets a good job so decides to have a baby and then for whatever reason that falls through. Yes of course there are people that will play the system you will always have that, but nobody makes a choice to live in poverty. | |||
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"You know it really doesn't take much to tip someone into poverty.... fridge breaks - now you need to replace the fridge, or car breaks - you cant get to work on time, or electric bill increases - maybe all three happen ... And once there its a bloody hard slog out of the depths of despair. I hate that people, in their position of privilege, are judging others and choosing whether poor people should have children. If you can't understand it, go work in a crisis food provision and sit and listen and hear the stories that ordinary people go through, how they arrived there and the daily struggle to just survive. Exactly this , so many families are suffering in silence through fear of being judged instead of being supported. Good on that lady for speaking out! Miss pc "You do know I was reliant on food provision at one point in my life? I know you all think I live in a palace and a big stick but trust me, you have no idea......but I guess noone is reading this because it doesn't suit the narrative of who you all think I am | |||
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"You know it really doesn't take much to tip someone into poverty.... fridge breaks - now you need to replace the fridge, or car breaks - you cant get to work on time, or electric bill increases - maybe all three happen ... And once there its a bloody hard slog out of the depths of despair. I hate that people, in their position of privilege, are judging others and choosing whether poor people should have children. If you can't understand it, go work in a crisis food provision and sit and listen and hear the stories that ordinary people go through, how they arrived there and the daily struggle to just survive. Exactly this , so many families are suffering in silence through fear of being judged instead of being supported. Good on that lady for speaking out! Miss pc
You do know I was reliant on food provision at one point in my life? I know you all think I live in a palace and a big stick but trust me, you have no idea......but I guess noone is reading this because it doesn't suit the narrative of who you all think I am
"You assumed I was a man, FFS 
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"I think this has been taken ridiculously out of context by some people! The original op was about people who can’t afford the children they’ve got having more and more children. Not stopping poorer people having children! We don't know anyone circumstances none of us do. Everybody hopes that their situation is going to improve and maybe somebody gets a good job so decides to have a baby and then for whatever reason that falls through. Yes of course there are people that will play the system you will always have that, but nobody makes a choice to live in poverty. " And I didn't say that either.... So are we going to keep on going with what I didn't say? | |||
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"You know it really doesn't take much to tip someone into poverty.... fridge breaks - now you need to replace the fridge, or car breaks - you cant get to work on time, or electric bill increases - maybe all three happen ... And once there its a bloody hard slog out of the depths of despair. I hate that people, in their position of privilege, are judging others and choosing whether poor people should have children. If you can't understand it, go work in a crisis food provision and sit and listen and hear the stories that ordinary people go through, how they arrived there and the daily struggle to just survive. Exactly this , so many families are suffering in silence through fear of being judged instead of being supported. Good on that lady for speaking out! Miss pc
You do know I was reliant on food provision at one point in my life? I know you all think I live in a palace and a big stick but trust me, you have no idea......but I guess noone is reading this because it doesn't suit the narrative of who you all think I am
You assumed I was a man, FFS
"Actually that is true for which I apologise but that was because I didn't check the name correctly. Sorry for that. | |||
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"I think this has been taken ridiculously out of context by some people! The original op was about people who can’t afford the children they’ve got having more and more children. Not stopping poorer people having children! But that final sentence is exactly what HAS been suggested when the question "how do you suggest we deal with people having children who can't afford it?" has been asked. That's why it's gone that way. " People are never going to agree on this and people are unlikely to change their opinions. I, like the op, chose not to have another child as I wasn’t financially secure. The people she originally mentioned didn’t. We all see life differently and choose different paths. Like I said before there are exceptions. I think the op has taken a lot of unnecessary personal comments here. | |||
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"Also by the reckoning that poor people should be denied children because they can't afford them, then i assume people over a certain income would be expected to keep the population going, so the likes of myself would have been forced to have children we didn't want "Window ticket system like at the post office, cashier No.1 is Brad Pitt cashier No.2 David Beckham and cashier No.3 Jeff Bezos | |||
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"I think this has been taken ridiculously out of context by some people! The original op was about people who can’t afford the children they’ve got having more and more children. Not stopping poorer people having children! We don't know anyone circumstances none of us do. Everybody hopes that their situation is going to improve and maybe somebody gets a good job so decides to have a baby and then for whatever reason that falls through. Yes of course there are people that will play the system you will always have that, but nobody makes a choice to live in poverty. And I didn't say that either.... So are we going to keep on going with what I didn't say? " You need to calm down because I wasn't replying to you, I never said that you did say it. People are having a discussion but you are choosing to take every comment as a personal dig and that is not what is happening! | |||
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"You know it really doesn't take much to tip someone into poverty.... fridge breaks - now you need to replace the fridge, or car breaks - you cant get to work on time, or electric bill increases - maybe all three happen ... And once there its a bloody hard slog out of the depths of despair. I hate that people, in their position of privilege, are judging others and choosing whether poor people should have children. If you can't understand it, go work in a crisis food provision and sit and listen and hear the stories that ordinary people go through, how they arrived there and the daily struggle to just survive. Exactly this , so many families are suffering in silence through fear of being judged instead of being supported. Good on that lady for speaking out! Miss pc
You do know I was reliant on food provision at one point in my life? I know you all think I live in a palace and a big stick but trust me, you have no idea......but I guess noone is reading this because it doesn't suit the narrative of who you all think I am
You assumed I was a man, FFS
Actually that is true for which I apologise but that was because I didn't check the name correctly. Sorry for that. "Thanks | |||
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"I think this has been taken ridiculously out of context by some people! The original op was about people who can’t afford the children they’ve got having more and more children. Not stopping poorer people having children! We don't know anyone circumstances none of us do. Everybody hopes that their situation is going to improve and maybe somebody gets a good job so decides to have a baby and then for whatever reason that falls through. Yes of course there are people that will play the system you will always have that, but nobody makes a choice to live in poverty. And I didn't say that either.... So are we going to keep on going with what I didn't say? You need to calm down because I wasn't replying to you, I never said that you did say it. People are having a discussion but you are choosing to take every comment as a personal dig and that is not what is happening! " Er...yep. It actually is what is happening but ok | |||
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"Also by the reckoning that poor people should be denied children because they can't afford them, then i assume people over a certain income would be expected to keep the population going, so the likes of myself would have been forced to have children we didn't want
Window ticket system like at the post office, cashier No.1 is Brad Pitt cashier No.2 David Beckham and cashier No.3 Jeff Bezos"Are you following the original discussuon because you have taken a left turn somewhere.. | |||
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"Can I just say I think I am doing ok at defending myself here since everyone is jumping on the band wagon now and many weren't even in the original discussion and just making things up. At the start of this debate, there were mixed views. All those people have buggered off and left me alone. Its me against the lot of you! Oh joy! Imagine a gang bang with you lot! I wouldn't get out alive!!! " We are disagreeing with you not attacking you. That is allowed and what a discussion is for. | |||
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"I think this has been taken ridiculously out of context by some people! The original op was about people who can’t afford the children they’ve got having more and more children. Not stopping poorer people having children! We don't know anyone circumstances none of us do. Everybody hopes that their situation is going to improve and maybe somebody gets a good job so decides to have a baby and then for whatever reason that falls through. Yes of course there are people that will play the system you will always have that, but nobody makes a choice to live in poverty. And I didn't say that either.... So are we going to keep on going with what I didn't say? You need to calm down because I wasn't replying to you, I never said that you did say it. People are having a discussion but you are choosing to take every comment as a personal dig and that is not what is happening! Er...yep. It actually is what is happening but ok" Where did I have a dig at you please. | |||
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"Can I just say I think I am doing ok at defending myself here since everyone is jumping on the band wagon now and many weren't even in the original discussion and just making things up. At the start of this debate, there were mixed views. All those people have buggered off and left me alone. Its me against the lot of you! Oh joy! Imagine a gang bang with you lot! I wouldn't get out alive!!! We are disagreeing with you not attacking you. That is allowed and what a discussion is for. " So reading the original op of the woman in question do you think it was the responsible thing to do to go on and have 2 more children considering she was struggling? | |||
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"Can I just say I think I am doing ok at defending myself here since everyone is jumping on the band wagon now and many weren't even in the original discussion and just making things up. At the start of this debate, there were mixed views. All those people have buggered off and left me alone. Its me against the lot of you! Oh joy! Imagine a gang bang with you lot! I wouldn't get out alive!!! We are disagreeing with you not attacking you. That is allowed and what a discussion is for. So reading the original op of the woman in question do you think it was the responsible thing to do to go on and have 2 more children considering she was struggling? " And that question to anyone else too? Yes or no will suffice. | |||
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"Can I just say I think I am doing ok at defending myself here since everyone is jumping on the band wagon now and many weren't even in the original discussion and just making things up. At the start of this debate, there were mixed views. All those people have buggered off and left me alone. Its me against the lot of you! Oh joy! Imagine a gang bang with you lot! I wouldn't get out alive!!! We are disagreeing with you not attacking you. That is allowed and what a discussion is for. " I think you might feel different if you were in my shoes right now. The more recent posts have nothing whatsoever to do with what I originally said. The topic has completely changed. I have been called a racist, a fascist, with the hope I get sterilised...amongst many kind words. I have responded some time ago to the original points in response to mine. Now it has become just silly. | |||
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"Can I just say I think I am doing ok at defending myself here since everyone is jumping on the band wagon now and many weren't even in the original discussion and just making things up. At the start of this debate, there were mixed views. All those people have buggered off and left me alone. Its me against the lot of you! Oh joy! Imagine a gang bang with you lot! I wouldn't get out alive!!! We are disagreeing with you not attacking you. That is allowed and what a discussion is for. So reading the original op of the woman in question do you think it was the responsible thing to do to go on and have 2 more children considering she was struggling? " I've no idea because I don't know her full situation or circumstances.im not going to judge someone's life choices based on a 2 minute news report. | |||
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"Can I just say I think I am doing ok at defending myself here since everyone is jumping on the band wagon now and many weren't even in the original discussion and just making things up. At the start of this debate, there were mixed views. All those people have buggered off and left me alone. Its me against the lot of you! Oh joy! Imagine a gang bang with you lot! I wouldn't get out alive!!! " It was some of those mixed views I personally found repugnant. I don't disagree with the general point you make about a need for greater responsibility by people but as somebody that has faced those circumstances and dilemmas yourself you're surely also sensitive to the realities of life on the breadline. For many their children are their sole purpose in life. | |||
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"Can I just say I think I am doing ok at defending myself here since everyone is jumping on the band wagon now and many weren't even in the original discussion and just making things up. At the start of this debate, there were mixed views. All those people have buggered off and left me alone. Its me against the lot of you! Oh joy! Imagine a gang bang with you lot! I wouldn't get out alive!!! We are disagreeing with you not attacking you. That is allowed and what a discussion is for. So reading the original op of the woman in question do you think it was the responsible thing to do to go on and have 2 more children considering she was struggling? I've no idea because I don't know her full situation or circumstances.im not going to judge someone's life choices based on a 2 minute news report. " With the information given in the original post. Yes or no | |||
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"Can I just say I think I am doing ok at defending myself here since everyone is jumping on the band wagon now and many weren't even in the original discussion and just making things up. At the start of this debate, there were mixed views. All those people have buggered off and left me alone. Its me against the lot of you! Oh joy! Imagine a gang bang with you lot! I wouldn't get out alive!!! We are disagreeing with you not attacking you. That is allowed and what a discussion is for. So reading the original op of the woman in question do you think it was the responsible thing to do to go on and have 2 more children considering she was struggling? I've no idea because I don't know her full situation or circumstances.im not going to judge someone's life choices based on a 2 minute news report. With the information given in the original post. Yes or no " I've answered the question and I actually saw the news report. I will never judge someone based on a tiny amount of information and tell them they shouldn't have more children. | |||
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"I am off now. I can't say it's been fun. But life is tough right? " Absolutely, life is tough for everyone regardless of what side of the fence you sit. Sorry you felt attacked and hope it hasn't jaded your view of thr forum x | |||
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"Can I just say I think I am doing ok at defending myself here since everyone is jumping on the band wagon now and many weren't even in the original discussion and just making things up. At the start of this debate, there were mixed views. All those people have buggered off and left me alone. Its me against the lot of you! Oh joy! Imagine a gang bang with you lot! I wouldn't get out alive!!! We are disagreeing with you not attacking you. That is allowed and what a discussion is for. So reading the original op of the woman in question do you think it was the responsible thing to do to go on and have 2 more children considering she was struggling? I've no idea because I don't know her full situation or circumstances.im not going to judge someone's life choices based on a 2 minute news report. With the information given in the original post. Yes or no I've answered the question and I actually saw the news report. I will never judge someone based on a tiny amount of information and tell them they shouldn't have more children. " I didn’t say tell them not to have more children. I asked if people thought it was the responsible thing to have 2 more children in those circumstances. | |||
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" You need to calm down because I wasn't replying to you, I never said that you did say it. People are having a discussion but you are choosing to take every comment as a personal dig and that is not what is happening! Er...yep. It actually is what is happening but ok" Hmmm, I also think you are taking this too personally (and its not often that Lorna and i agree!). I don't think people are attacking YOU persay, they are exploring the themes of poverty with regard to regulating children, which is what was introduced /inferred in the first post I grew up in poverty and perhaps that influenced my choices to not have children, regardless of my current circumstances, but i would never deny people that choice or right. It's a personal choice /decision, regardless of their circumstances Also, who is to say that the family on TV wouldn't struggle for another 5 years, but then they get better jobs /have a windfall .. Suddenly they are financially stable again ... But it would be too late to start a family! I don't think it is b+w | |||
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"Can I just say I think I am doing ok at defending myself here since everyone is jumping on the band wagon now and many weren't even in the original discussion and just making things up. At the start of this debate, there were mixed views. All those people have buggered off and left me alone. Its me against the lot of you! Oh joy! Imagine a gang bang with you lot! I wouldn't get out alive!!! We are disagreeing with you not attacking you. That is allowed and what a discussion is for. So reading the original op of the woman in question do you think it was the responsible thing to do to go on and have 2 more children considering she was struggling? I've no idea because I don't know her full situation or circumstances.im not going to judge someone's life choices based on a 2 minute news report. With the information given in the original post. Yes or no I've answered the question and I actually saw the news report. I will never judge someone based on a tiny amount of information and tell them they shouldn't have more children. I didn’t say tell them not to have more children. I asked if people thought it was the responsible thing to have 2 more children in those circumstances. " She didn't have two more children she had 2 children and was pregnant with a 3rd. It was actually a news report based on somebody using a food bank. The woman said she'd been in this situation for a couple of years since covid and she hoped things would improve. So no I would never dream of judging someone on my life choices when I have such limited information. I have worked in food banks, I have worked in child protection and I can tell you things are never as black-and-white as they may seem. | |||
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"Can I just say I think I am doing ok at defending myself here since everyone is jumping on the band wagon now and many weren't even in the original discussion and just making things up. At the start of this debate, there were mixed views. All those people have buggered off and left me alone. Its me against the lot of you! Oh joy! Imagine a gang bang with you lot! I wouldn't get out alive!!! We are disagreeing with you not attacking you. That is allowed and what a discussion is for. So reading the original op of the woman in question do you think it was the responsible thing to do to go on and have 2 more children considering she was struggling? I've no idea because I don't know her full situation or circumstances.im not going to judge someone's life choices based on a 2 minute news report. With the information given in the original post. Yes or no I've answered the question and I actually saw the news report. I will never judge someone based on a tiny amount of information and tell them they shouldn't have more children. I didn’t say tell them not to have more children. I asked if people thought it was the responsible thing to have 2 more children in those circumstances. She didn't have two more children she had 2 children and was pregnant with a 3rd. It was actually a news report based on somebody using a food bank. The woman said she'd been in this situation for a couple of years since covid and she hoped things would improve. So no I would never dream of judging someone on my life choices when I have such limited information. I have worked in food banks, I have worked in child protection and I can tell you things are never as black-and-white as they may seem. " Lorna I spent 15 years in child protection. I do know how things work. | |||
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"Can I just say I think I am doing ok at defending myself here since everyone is jumping on the band wagon now and many weren't even in the original discussion and just making things up. At the start of this debate, there were mixed views. All those people have buggered off and left me alone. Its me against the lot of you! Oh joy! Imagine a gang bang with you lot! I wouldn't get out alive!!! We are disagreeing with you not attacking you. That is allowed and what a discussion is for. So reading the original op of the woman in question do you think it was the responsible thing to do to go on and have 2 more children considering she was struggling? I've no idea because I don't know her full situation or circumstances.im not going to judge someone's life choices based on a 2 minute news report. With the information given in the original post. Yes or no I've answered the question and I actually saw the news report. I will never judge someone based on a tiny amount of information and tell them they shouldn't have more children. I didn’t say tell them not to have more children. I asked if people thought it was the responsible thing to have 2 more children in those circumstances. She didn't have two more children she had 2 children and was pregnant with a 3rd. It was actually a news report based on somebody using a food bank. The woman said she'd been in this situation for a couple of years since covid and she hoped things would improve. So no I would never dream of judging someone on my life choices when I have such limited information. I have worked in food banks, I have worked in child protection and I can tell you things are never as black-and-white as they may seem. Lorna I spent 15 years in child protection. I do know how things work. " Then I'm struggling to see the point your making. You should know it's impossible to decide whether someone is a responsible or not based on a tiny amount of information. | |||
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"Can I just say I think I am doing ok at defending myself here since everyone is jumping on the band wagon now and many weren't even in the original discussion and just making things up. At the start of this debate, there were mixed views. All those people have buggered off and left me alone. Its me against the lot of you! Oh joy! Imagine a gang bang with you lot! I wouldn't get out alive!!! We are disagreeing with you not attacking you. That is allowed and what a discussion is for. So reading the original op of the woman in question do you think it was the responsible thing to do to go on and have 2 more children considering she was struggling? I've no idea because I don't know her full situation or circumstances.im not going to judge someone's life choices based on a 2 minute news report. With the information given in the original post. Yes or no I've answered the question and I actually saw the news report. I will never judge someone based on a tiny amount of information and tell them they shouldn't have more children. I didn’t say tell them not to have more children. I asked if people thought it was the responsible thing to have 2 more children in those circumstances. She didn't have two more children she had 2 children and was pregnant with a 3rd. It was actually a news report based on somebody using a food bank. The woman said she'd been in this situation for a couple of years since covid and she hoped things would improve. So no I would never dream of judging someone on my life choices when I have such limited information. I have worked in food banks, I have worked in child protection and I can tell you things are never as black-and-white as they may seem. Lorna I spent 15 years in child protection. I do know how things work. Then I'm struggling to see the point your making. You should know it's impossible to decide whether someone is a responsible or not based on a tiny amount of information. " Fair enough. We’ve not had a disagreement for a while! We were due one . Still adore ya . I’m going bed xx | |||
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"Can I just say I think I am doing ok at defending myself here since everyone is jumping on the band wagon now and many weren't even in the original discussion and just making things up. At the start of this debate, there were mixed views. All those people have buggered off and left me alone. Its me against the lot of you! Oh joy! Imagine a gang bang with you lot! I wouldn't get out alive!!! We are disagreeing with you not attacking you. That is allowed and what a discussion is for. So reading the original op of the woman in question do you think it was the responsible thing to do to go on and have 2 more children considering she was struggling? I've no idea because I don't know her full situation or circumstances.im not going to judge someone's life choices based on a 2 minute news report. With the information given in the original post. Yes or no I've answered the question and I actually saw the news report. I will never judge someone based on a tiny amount of information and tell them they shouldn't have more children. I didn’t say tell them not to have more children. I asked if people thought it was the responsible thing to have 2 more children in those circumstances. She didn't have two more children she had 2 children and was pregnant with a 3rd. It was actually a news report based on somebody using a food bank. The woman said she'd been in this situation for a couple of years since covid and she hoped things would improve. So no I would never dream of judging someone on my life choices when I have such limited information. I have worked in food banks, I have worked in child protection and I can tell you things are never as black-and-white as they may seem. Lorna I spent 15 years in child protection. I do know how things work. Then I'm struggling to see the point your making. You should know it's impossible to decide whether someone is a responsible or not based on a tiny amount of information. Fair enough. We’ve not had a disagreement for a while! We were due one . Still adore ya . I’m going bed xx"See ya Friday.  | |||
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" You need to calm down because I wasn't replying to you, I never said that you did say it. People are having a discussion but you are choosing to take every comment as a personal dig and that is not what is happening! Er...yep. It actually is what is happening but ok Hmmm, I also think you are taking this too personally (and its not often that Lorna and i agree!). I don't think people are attacking YOU persay, they are exploring the themes of poverty with regard to regulating children, which is what was introduced /inferred in the first post I grew up in poverty and perhaps that influenced my choices to not have children, regardless of my current circumstances, but i would never deny people that choice or right. It's a personal choice /decision, regardless of their circumstances Also, who is to say that the family on TV wouldn't struggle for another 5 years, but then they get better jobs /have a windfall .. Suddenly they are financially stable again ... But it would be too late to start a family! I don't think it is b+w " Agree with this, I was 19 with nothing when I had my baby. I worked damn hard to build up a better life for me and my boys, they watched me struggle and fall and they watched me succeed, and were (are) my biggest cheerleaders...Now they are men they too have worked hard and succeeded. Judging by some thought processes I should of been written off and not of had children | |||
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" You need to calm down because I wasn't replying to you, I never said that you did say it. People are having a discussion but you are choosing to take every comment as a personal dig and that is not what is happening! Er...yep. It actually is what is happening but ok Hmmm, I also think you are taking this too personally (and its not often that Lorna and i agree!). I don't think people are attacking YOU persay, they are exploring the themes of poverty with regard to regulating children, which is what was introduced /inferred in the first post I grew up in poverty and perhaps that influenced my choices to not have children, regardless of my current circumstances, but i would never deny people that choice or right. It's a personal choice /decision, regardless of their circumstances Also, who is to say that the family on TV wouldn't struggle for another 5 years, but then they get better jobs /have a windfall .. Suddenly they are financially stable again ... But it would be too late to start a family! I don't think it is b+w Agree with this, I was 19 with nothing when I had my baby. I worked damn hard to build up a better life for me and my boys, they watched me struggle and fall and they watched me succeed, and were (are) my biggest cheerleaders...Now they are men they too have worked hard and succeeded. Judging by some thought processes I should of been written off and not of had children" Absolutely and I was just about to type and say some of the most successful and wealthy people in our society grew up in poverty. Absolutely nobody should ever be written off. I was actually just reading an article that was suggesting around 1 in 6 millionaires grew up in a very low income household. | |||
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"Nobody living in a western country is living in "poverty" or what some do fooder think tank decides what poverty is. Take a trip to India, China, Africa or any far east country where people die at the road side completely unnoticed by the rest of society. THAT is poverty. We can debate the semantics and you are probably correct. But it still doesn't explain to me, why she and her husband would continue having children if their financial circumstances are so dreadful I sometimes despair at the choices people make given their circumstances. But if you're suggesting people should have a minimum income before they choose to have children that's a shitty society. Its not a shitty society to tell ppl to have a minimum income before having kids. Is it shitty to consider the wellfare and upbringing of the children? In my eyes its shitty of the parents to decide to have kids in the very poor financial situation. Knowing full well that sacrifices become a necessity, much to the detriment to the upbringing of the child/children. I would not disagree with anyone who told me i cant/shouldnt have kids while being in my financial situation, as im well aware that to do so would be a very poor choice for me. Its common sense at the end of the day, have kids in a very poor financial situation and both the parents and children can struggle as a result, or have kids when the parents are more financially stable and be able to provide them with a better life and upbringing. What restrictions would you accept on your right to have children?" Be you a single parent or two parents if you are not in a financial position to feed, clothe and put a roof over that child head and attend its needs when PLANNING to have a child…. Don’t bloody have one. | |||
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"Nobody living in a western country is living in "poverty" or what some do fooder think tank decides what poverty is. Take a trip to India, China, Africa or any far east country where people die at the road side completely unnoticed by the rest of society. THAT is poverty. We can debate the semantics and you are probably correct. But it still doesn't explain to me, why she and her husband would continue having children if their financial circumstances are so dreadful I sometimes despair at the choices people make given their circumstances. But if you're suggesting people should have a minimum income before they choose to have children that's a shitty society. Its not a shitty society to tell ppl to have a minimum income before having kids. Is it shitty to consider the wellfare and upbringing of the children? In my eyes its shitty of the parents to decide to have kids in the very poor financial situation. Knowing full well that sacrifices become a necessity, much to the detriment to the upbringing of the child/children. I would not disagree with anyone who told me i cant/shouldnt have kids while being in my financial situation, as im well aware that to do so would be a very poor choice for me. Its common sense at the end of the day, have kids in a very poor financial situation and both the parents and children can struggle as a result, or have kids when the parents are more financially stable and be able to provide them with a better life and upbringing. What restrictions would you accept on your right to have children? Be you a single parent or two parents if you are not in a financial position to feed, clothe and put a roof over that child head and attend its needs when PLANNING to have a child…. Don’t bloody have one. " Absolutely nobody plans to have a child they don't think they can look after. Nobody wants to live in poverty and people have hope that things will get better. | |||
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"Right. I have had a quick nap and read all the comments (and the insults which I will dutifully ignore). In fact, for those of you who have offered a considered and informed opinion that differs from mine (without resorting to personal insults), I do see what you are saying and I understand your perspective on the wider view point. I would certainly never consider myself to be a fascist though! In fact it alarms me greatly that my views may have been taken as such by some, and those who know me in person would certainly not recognise that description of me. Quite the opposite in fact. However. I opened this discussion as I genuinely feel concerned for children brought into this world , in which there is no food for them. The mother in the news item reminded me of my own mother who also went without meals to ensure my dad, sister and I ate. But that was because their financial situation worsened after they had us. I know my mum would not have wanted to fall pregnant again at that time because she would have struggled to feed us as well as herself. It is an almost identical situation to the one in the news except that lady did go ahead and get pregnant again. She said it was a planned pregnancy and I am sorry but I find that really hard to understand. With that said, I take on board that new born babies continue to be born into all manner of suffering and unfortunate circumstances and many of these circumstances were not through choice which is very different situation entirely with the human trafficking and the terrible horrors of it all. It is an entirely different conversation altogether and those women have ALL of my compassion without reservation at all. I am also perfectly able to recognise those circumstances for which new human life MUST be encouraged, no matter the circumstances. I refer directly to the man who said he would defend this right with his last dying breath due to his family's tragic experiences during the Holocaust. In this, I see completely why one would feel compelled to do everything possible to support new life so that an entire population does not end . I can imagine that in such circumstances, many would sacrifice their own food, in order to feed the new life in the hope they survive to carry forward their heritage. However, it is most unfortunate that the example I gave in the news should have been compared with the Holocaust! BUT I understand he was offering a perspective on a world where childbirth is monitored perhaps ? But I was never intending to advocate that. Many have commented that it all depends on the circumstances and that is indeed true. So I do not say that unless you have specified income and number of spare bedrooms,that you cannot have children. I think in my own defence, that really is taking it too far and not fair. Of course I am not saying that. I started out by asking if I am missing anything in the news story I shared with you. Many of you told me exactly what I am missing in no uncertain terms. If my own expression was rather strong, it was never personally insulting. If I offended anyone at all, I apologise unreservedly. But to be called a fascist, a racist, for someone to hope I am sterilised? To be criticised for my personal sexual preferences (which is irrelevant)????? That is not fair or ok. " I agree. I was offensive. I hold my hands up. I'm not proud of the sterilisation commentnamd wish i hadn't said it. But you lit my emotional blue touch paper with the frankly rank offensiveness of what you said and strongly implied. Inaccurate to say you were a fascist also. However, by implying tthat she shouldn't have children you're on the thin edge ofna very dangerous wedge. Especially when certain fucktwatdeathmonsterantihumancunts sterilised lots of people in the mid part of the last century for reasons no less abhorrent than your implied amoral judgement. And frankly people should be aware that it doesn't take much ffor views such as yours to become normative to the extent that it could become a reality. And i really, really don't like that thought. So apologists for her view lurking on this thread.- just temper your public fence sitting please. | |||
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"You know it really doesn't take much to tip someone into poverty.... fridge breaks - now you need to replace the fridge, or car breaks - you cant get to work on time, or electric bill increases - maybe all three happen ... And once there its a bloody hard slog out of the depths of despair. I hate that people, in their position of privilege, are judging others and choosing whether poor people should have children. If you can't understand it, go work in a crisis food provision and sit and listen and hear the stories that ordinary people go through, how they arrived there and the daily struggle to just survive. Well said
And I said.....I do! I am NOT in a privalidged position at all! This is hilarious. I am dirt poor! I just wouldn't have a baby because I can't afford it! Simple. "I think you are missing the point that others are making OP. I actually agree with you, it is sensible to consider your ability to raise a child before having one (obviously this doesn't include unforseen changes in circumstances or unplanned pregnancies) however what you have failed to explain is the purpose of your post. There have been comments about facism and eugenics because that is exactly what any kind of control on this situation would be. If we as a society are not prepared to accept state control over who can or can't have children then (as others have asked) what do you suggest? Writing a post that singles out another person's behaviour and attacks them for it but then claiming that you don't support any such attack without offering an explanation of what it is you do support is going to recieve unwanted attention. Is it perhaps possible you would prefer a world where public shame was enough to prevent unaffordable pregnancies. That way we don't need to go down the distasteful route of forcibly terminating them, we can just gossip in shops and online so young girls know very well how they will be judged if they should choose to exercise bodily autonomy? I don't actually believe you would condone this and don't think you are being unkind. I do however think you haven't thought through the consequences of your judging another person then asking all and sundry to agree with your judgement. If you can't (and don't want to) ban her behaviour then what purpose is there posting about it? Mr | |||
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"Nobody living in a western country is living in "poverty" or what some do fooder think tank decides what poverty is. Take a trip to India, China, Africa or any far east country where people die at the road side completely unnoticed by the rest of society. THAT is poverty. " | |||
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" You need to calm down because I wasn't replying to you, I never said that you did say it. People are having a discussion but you are choosing to take every comment as a personal dig and that is not what is happening! Er...yep. It actually is what is happening but ok Hmmm, I also think you are taking this too personally (and its not often that Lorna and i agree!). I don't think people are attacking YOU persay, they are exploring the themes of poverty with regard to regulating children, which is what was introduced /inferred in the first post I grew up in poverty and perhaps that influenced my choices to not have children, regardless of my current circumstances, but i would never deny people that choice or right. It's a personal choice /decision, regardless of their circumstances Also, who is to say that the family on TV wouldn't struggle for another 5 years, but then they get better jobs /have a windfall .. Suddenly they are financially stable again ... But it would be too late to start a family! I don't think it is b+w Agree with this, I was 19 with nothing when I had my baby. I worked damn hard to build up a better life for me and my boys, they watched me struggle and fall and they watched me succeed, and were (are) my biggest cheerleaders...Now they are men they too have worked hard and succeeded. Judging by some thought processes I should of been written off and not of had children Absolutely and I was just about to type and say some of the most successful and wealthy people in our society grew up in poverty. Absolutely nobody should ever be written off. I was actually just reading an article that was suggesting around 1 in 6 millionaires grew up in a very low income household. " Very true, and very often they use their experiences and finances to help others because their upbringing has shaped how they view the world and people in it My youngest was born in our village, educated locally. On paper he shouldn't of succeeded because he was raised in an area deemed in poverty....But he worked hard and now lives in Edinburgh working for one of the most prestigious names in the world of game development... My eldest is also successful, working at management level for a local building company, bought his house at 22 years of age. So yes! You can come from poor background and suceed, who is anyone to say it shouldn't of happened | |||
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" You need to calm down because I wasn't replying to you, I never said that you did say it. People are having a discussion but you are choosing to take every comment as a personal dig and that is not what is happening! Er...yep. It actually is what is happening but ok Hmmm, I also think you are taking this too personally (and its not often that Lorna and i agree!). I don't think people are attacking YOU persay, they are exploring the themes of poverty with regard to regulating children, which is what was introduced /inferred in the first post I grew up in poverty and perhaps that influenced my choices to not have children, regardless of my current circumstances, but i would never deny people that choice or right. It's a personal choice /decision, regardless of their circumstances Also, who is to say that the family on TV wouldn't struggle for another 5 years, but then they get better jobs /have a windfall .. Suddenly they are financially stable again ... But it would be too late to start a family! I don't think it is b+w Agree with this, I was 19 with nothing when I had my baby. I worked damn hard to build up a better life for me and my boys, they watched me struggle and fall and they watched me succeed, and were (are) my biggest cheerleaders...Now they are men they too have worked hard and succeeded. Judging by some thought processes I should of been written off and not of had children Absolutely and I was just about to type and say some of the most successful and wealthy people in our society grew up in poverty. Absolutely nobody should ever be written off. I was actually just reading an article that was suggesting around 1 in 6 millionaires grew up in a very low income household. Very true, and very often they use their experiences and finances to help others because their upbringing has shaped how they view the world and people in it My youngest was born in our village, educated locally. On paper he shouldn't of succeeded because he was raised in an area deemed in poverty....But he worked hard and now lives in Edinburgh working for one of the most prestigious names in the world of game development... My eldest is also successful, working at management level for a local building company, bought his house at 22 years of age. So yes! You can come from poor background and suceed, who is anyone to say it shouldn't of happened " Marcus Rashford instantly springs to mind as an example of what you have just said and there are obviously very many others. And it sounds like you and your sons have done a marvellous job. | |||
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