FabSwingers.com forum: Colston Four

By *yron69 OP Man
over a year ago

Fareham

Vandals or were they right to remove the statue?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Vandals, is a right way to have things moved. I don't go smashing up sports direct because I hate chavs.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Firstly there was far more than 4 of them it was only 4 of them that had criminal charges filed against them.

It doesn't matter what I think because a court has found them innocent.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Vandals, is a right way to have things moved. I don't go smashing up sports direct because I hate chavs."

What?

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By *heGateKeeperMan
over a year ago

Stratford

I don’t think they should have had a right to move it personally and think there’s a better way to open the discussion about such things.

I think it opens very dangerous precedent for ‘justice’.

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By *idnight RamblerMan
over a year ago

Pershore

This verdict is a license for mob rule. How can it be seen any other way? Who now decides which statues and symbols can be torn down?

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By *yron69 OP Man
over a year ago

Fareham

"I don’t think they should have had a right to move it personally and think there’s a better way to open the discussion about such things.

I think it opens very dangerous precedent for ‘justice’."

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By *ud and BryanCouple
over a year ago

Boston, Lincolnshire

"This verdict is a license for mob rule. How can it be seen any other way? Who now decides which statues and symbols can be torn down?"

Absolutely.

What happens when a mob decides they disagree with statutes of, for example, Thatcher, Nelson, Churchill etc.

The fact remains, they deliberately damaged public property, so in law, they must be criminals.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The principle they had may have validity but their actions should have attracted a sanction, to prevent others damaging things.

We need to challenge what and who we celebrate but in an adult and intelligent way.

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By *lairekTV/TS
over a year ago

Manchester

The law should be applied in a consistent fashion.

If another statue is turn down by a mob, they should be able to use this as a reference.

Stealing the statue is a different matter of course. Melting it down could raise a few quid.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Vandals, is a right way to have things moved. I don't go smashing up sports direct because I hate chavs."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There has to be an appeal against the decision.

Allowing this opens the door to anyone to use the defence of "It offended me"

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By *arlomaleMan
over a year ago

darlington

"Vandals or were they right to remove the statue?"
vandals simple as that and no they no right to remove it a prime example of because you are offended by something it’s wrong

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By *crumdiddlyumptiousMan
over a year ago

If they had the evidence to prosecute them that's what they should of done, Even if it was just a slap on the wrist with community service

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They were found not guilty and I think that was the right verdict. I believe that campaigners had spent many years legally trying to get the statue removed in Bristol and blocked at every turn. Despite the association of sl@very with Colston. It was protest. Not vandalism.

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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago

Bristol

What a fucking farce, they are vandals end of it’s now open season on any statue.

Which one shale we go and take down ?

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By *yron69 OP Man
over a year ago

Fareham

To hell with the council we’ll plough on with our ideological campaign. I mean the council block kiddies parks but I don’t see mums building them regardless.

Why cheer something simply symbolic? Why couldn’t they have used that energy to create something functional and useful?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Anyone who is not white commenting? A different perspective perhaps.

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By *2000ManMan
over a year ago

Worthing

If they do not agree with something best to protest nearby rather than vandalise.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just because you don't like a visual representation of something doesn't give you the right to destroy it. It's mitigation at best. A totally political verdict and when a jury is allowed to play politics, that is the end of your justice system.

In a related article a comment from Bristol University ' the University of Bristol estimating that ‘around 89% of the wealth used to found our University depended on the labour of ens laved people’....So it's okay to tear the uni down now too, in fact we owe it to all those ens laved people.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Surely all statue lives matter?? Poor Colston...after all he did

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By *ales lookingMan
over a year ago

gwynedd

The problem with this island is that we pat ourselves on the back on our acheivements without acknowledging the often unsavoury way in which we do it.Our wealth has often been as a result of stealing and murder and yet we're taught none of this in our schools.We're expected to love a country who'se history is whitewashed to such an extent that when you do actally learn its history (often off your own back) , you can't help but feel cheated and lied to by a country which has so much to hide.We have the wrong people on our pedestals so tear 'em down

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By *yron69 OP Man
over a year ago

Fareham

I’ve never found history hidden? Look for it. Someone has written a book. School for me was either industrial history or world history. For any idiot it was enough to know pre 1850 this nation was not nice for the poor.

Strangely now we are expected to believe a multicultural Roman Britain was a cause for celebration. Not for the Celts is wasn’t .

The British Empire was built in the face of wars with France and Holland. It wasn’t a plan however some profited. X

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By *crumdiddlyumptiousMan
over a year ago

"The problem with this island is that we pat ourselves on the back on our acheivements without acknowledging the often unsavoury way in which we do it.Our wealth has often been as a result of stealing and murder and yet we're taught none of this in our schools.We're expected to love a country who'se history is whitewashed to such an extent that when you do actally learn its history (often off your own back) , you can't help but feel cheated and lied to by a country which has so much to hide.We have the wrong people on our pedestals so tear 'em down

So no different then most other country then, Dig deep enough and you will find most countries hide there dark side

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By *lairekTV/TS
over a year ago

Manchester

Agreed. Life was pretty tough for all poor people going back only a few generations.

Kids were sent down mine shafts and up chimneys by the Victorians.

Only a tiny few profited immensely from slvry.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Just because you don't like a visual representation of something doesn't give you the right to destroy it. It's mitigation at best. A totally political verdict and when a jury is allowed to play politics, that is the end of your justice system.

A very OTT interpretation. One decision does not equal the end of our justice system. And the statue was a visible reminder of the sl@ve trade, the University is not. A plaque acknowledging Colston's sl@ve trader association was actually agreed and cast but blocked by Bristol's Mayor the year before the statue was toppled.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I’ve never found history hidden? Look for it. Someone has written a book. School for me was either industrial history or world history. For any idiot it was enough to know pre 1850 this nation was not nice for the poor.

Strangely now we are expected to believe a multicultural Roman Britain was a cause for celebration. Not for the Celts is wasn’t .

The British Empire was built in the face of wars with France and Holland. It wasn’t a plan however some profited. X"

How is this a response to the previous comment?

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"I don’t think they should have had a right to move it personally and think there’s a better way to open the discussion about such things.

I think it opens very dangerous precedent for ‘justice’."

Well I guess if we don't like something we can just smash it up or burn it down. Precedent set.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If they do not agree with something best to protest nearby rather than vandalise."

They did.

Whilst I don’t agree with pulling down statues, I fully support the reasons as to why it happened.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well said

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By *agneto.Man
over a year ago

Bham

Vandals. Shouldn't have been let off.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Vandals or were they right to remove the statue?"

They were vandals with a valid point.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If they do not agree with something best to protest nearby rather than vandalise.

They did.

Whilst I don’t agree with pulling down statues, I fully support the reasons as to why it happened."

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

They faced the court and the jury and that really is justice..

Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6..

They walk away without a stain on their charachters..

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By *anddXXXCouple
over a year ago

London

"Anyone who is not white commenting? A different perspective perhaps."

What a strange post.

Any s-l-a-v-e-s (forum won't let that word ) wish to comment ?

Real perspective perhaps.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Anyone who is not white commenting? A different perspective perhaps.

What a strange post.

Any s-l-a-v-e-s (forum won't let that word ) wish to comment ?

Real perspective perhaps.

You don't see that sl@very is an issue black people might have a different view of?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Anyone who is not white commenting? A different perspective perhaps.

What a strange post.

Any s-l-a-v-e-s (forum won't let that word ) wish to comment ?

Real perspective perhaps.

You can clearly see that wasn’t meant by what the person wrote, asking for a different perspective from a non white person to comment makes perfect sense considering given the reason as to why the statues were torn down.

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By *lairekTV/TS
over a year ago

Manchester

"Anyone who is not white commenting? A different perspective perhaps.

What a strange post.

Any s-l-a-v-e-s (forum won't let that word ) wish to comment ?

Real perspective perhaps.

You don't see that sl@very is an issue black people might have a different view of?

The original derivation of the word sl@ve comes from the Slav people.

Why are we now assuming it's just about black people.

This topic has been pervasive throughout human history.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Anyone who is not white commenting? A different perspective perhaps.

What a strange post.

Any s-l-a-v-e-s (forum won't let that word ) wish to comment ?

Real perspective perhaps.

You don't see that sl@very is an issue black people might have a different view of?

The original derivation of the word sl@ve comes from the Slav people.

Why are we now assuming it's just about black people.

This topic has been pervasive throughout human history. "

The Colston statue was toppled during the BLM protests in 2020. Do I really have to spell out the relevance of my comment??

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By *ecadent_DevonMan
over a year ago

Okehampton

“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped.“

George Orwell 1984.

Auschwitz was not torn down it was left as a reminder of the horrors of the past and to teach future generations what happens when madness reigns.

I do not think the statue should have been torn down, however I believe the CC should have been progressive enough to state the truth about the man and his role in an abhorrent trade, to teach the young that progress in Imperial Britain was often enabled through the suffering of others. Tearing down statues and throwing them in rivers or canals hides the truth after the heat of passion has subsided. It will become a distant memory and a footnote in history books, the lesson will be lost.

As for the verdict, a jury has decided that is how justice works in this country, for good or ill

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Anyone who is not white commenting? A different perspective perhaps.

What a strange post.

Any s-l-a-v-e-s (forum won't let that word ) wish to comment ?

Real perspective perhaps.

That's exactly what I meant. Up until Harry commented it was an entirely white thread.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped.“

George Orwell 1984.

Auschwitz was not torn down it was left as a reminder of the horrors of the past and to teach future generations what happens when madness reigns.

As for the verdict, a jury has decided that is how justice works in this country, for good or ill

To be fair Bristol did try to leave the statue there with a second plaque but the Mayor blocked it. It wasn't very strongly worded but did acknowledge his role in sl@ve trade.

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By *ony 2016Man
over a year ago

Huddersfield /derby cinemas

Surprised they got off , glad they did , disgraceful that the statue was there ,

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By *lairekTV/TS
over a year ago

Manchester

Is anyone bothered if a statue is in a town Square or a museum?

I don't care. Stick it in the museum, adorned by plaques.

(Unless it's a statue of Sonic the Hedgehog, in which case I'd recommend the nearest canal)

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By *lymanMan
over a year ago

PLYMOUTH

I think all sla##ry is/was wrong the from the Egyptians Romans greeks and Barbary pirates but we don't go pulling down the pyramids or the coliseum or statues i still see it as vandalism

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

Arrests in Essex yesterday for modern day forced labour..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I do not think the statue should have been torn down, however I believe the CC should have been progressive enough to state the truth about the man and his role in an abhorrent trade, to teach the young that progress in Imperial Britain was often enabled through the suffering of others. Tearing down statues and throwing them in rivers or canals hides the truth after the heat of passion has subsided. It will become a distant memory and a footnote in history books, the lesson will be lost. "

Agree with this although arguably this incident has made it more likely that children will get opportunities for a more balanced history.

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

Agree with this although arguably this incident has made it more likely that children will get opportunities for a more balanced history. "

And who composes the history ?

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By *gainagainMan
over a year ago

pontypridd

So if a legal enquiry does not support your views, you have a right to do whatever you want?

Anarchy will follow.

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By *axtenMan
over a year ago

Darlington

David Olusoga's series on Britain's 18thC Slv Trade and the reparations paid to stop it.

Billions paid out in today's terms ..to the slv traders that is.

My point being ..if there's no challenge, nothing will ever change. I support the right to protest and show big money up for what its always been ..'legalised', shameless exploitation

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By *gainagainMan
over a year ago

pontypridd

Should all statues of Victoria be torn down?

How about waging war on all Arab countries because of their ongoing support of sl@very. Or attacking coastal African tribes for supplying the sl@ves transported to the west.

Where do we stop?

History is history.

Vandalism is vandalism.

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By *lairekTV/TS
over a year ago

Manchester

Is this sort of protest effective though?

If we wanted to send a message to someone like Jeff Bezos, we failed.

His personal fortune went up by tens of billions during the pandemic. Meanwhile both black and white Amazon workers in the States live on poverty level income.

I suppose we could wait until Jeff's statue is erected, on top of his cock rocket.

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

Don't forget the Romans.. they had an empire too...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Should all statues of Victoria be torn down?

How about waging war on all Arab countries because of their ongoing support of sl@very. Or attacking coastal African tribes for supplying the sl@ves transported to the west.

Where do we stop?

History is history.

Vandalism is vandalism.

Don't see that hyperbole is much of an argument.

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport

Agree with this although arguably this incident has made it more likely that children will get opportunities for a more balanced history. "

Everybody has heard about the Boston Tea Party. Nobody has heard about the Boston Polite Protest Against English Rule.

Women did not get the vote by polite protestation to the authorities.

Child labour was not made history because of the good nature of the mill owners.

The Magna Carta did not get written by nicely asking King John.

The ones with power NEVER voluntarily give up that power.

Sometimes when all legal avenues for protest have been exhausted and a community has been ignored and frustrated, the only recourse is direct action.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Agree with this although arguably this incident has made it more likely that children will get opportunities for a more balanced history.

Everybody has heard about the Boston Tea Party. Nobody has heard about the Boston Polite Protest Against English Rule.

Women did not get the vote by polite protestation to the authorities.

Child labour was not made history because of the good nature of the mill owners.

The Magna Carta did not get written by nicely asking King John.

The ones with power NEVER voluntarily give up that power.

Sometimes when all legal avenues for protest have been exhausted and a community has been ignored and frustrated, the only recourse is direct action.

perfectly put

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

Agree with this although arguably this incident has made it more likely that children will get opportunities for a more balanced history.

Everybody has heard about the Boston Tea Party. Nobody has heard about the Boston Polite Protest Against English Rule.

Women did not get the vote by polite protestation to the authorities.

Child labour was not made history because of the good nature of the mill owners.

The Magna Carta did not get written by nicely asking King John.

The ones with power NEVER voluntarily give up that power.

Sometimes when all legal avenues for protest have been exhausted and a community has been ignored and frustrated, the only recourse is direct action.

Direct Action ?

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport

Agree with this although arguably this incident has made it more likely that children will get opportunities for a more balanced history.

Everybody has heard about the Boston Tea Party. Nobody has heard about the Boston Polite Protest Against English Rule.

Women did not get the vote by polite protestation to the authorities.

Child labour was not made history because of the good nature of the mill owners.

The Magna Carta did not get written by nicely asking King John.

The ones with power NEVER voluntarily give up that power.

Sometimes when all legal avenues for protest have been exhausted and a community has been ignored and frustrated, the only recourse is direct action.

Direct Action ?"

Tom, you know exactly what is meant by the phrase. In this particular case it was merely the tearing down of an offensive statue and throwing it in the river. In other cases it has meant people sacrificing their lives (ref. Emily Davison). In still other cases it has resulted in civil war or even international war.

Also go read about the Peterloo Massacre to understand the things that the ruling classes are prepared to do in order to keep hold of their power.

Without direct action by the oppressed through the ages, this country would still have a feudal society with zero freedom for anybody except the very few at the top of the pile.

This is still absolutely true today.

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By *atriciayoiditTV/TS
over a year ago

hatfield

"Vandals or were they right to remove the statue?"
when the american civil war ended..the sl@ves were given a choice of ..staying on the plantation and working.?..or getting a job and entering the world of profit and loss..??..the plantation offered a roof over your head and a job..america has the biggest prison system in the world..and black inmates.?..i ask is the prison the new plantation...just an observation..??

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"Don't forget the Romans.. they had an empire too..."

What did the Romans ever do for us?

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By *adie Slut and CharlieCouple
over a year ago

Bucks

Thank you for being a voice of reason in a very ranty thread x

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By *adie Slut and CharlieCouple
over a year ago

Bucks

"Thank you for being a voice of reason in a very ranty thread x"

Sorry this was for Inconceivable x

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By *yron69 OP Man
over a year ago

Fareham

Strangely now we are expected to believe a multicultural Roman Britain was a cause for celebration. Not for the Celts is wasn’t .

The British Empire was built in the face of wars with France and Holland. It wasn’t a plan however some profited. X

How is this a response to the previous comment? "

What are you on about?

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By *yron69 OP Man
over a year ago

Fareham

ISIS smash up an Assyrian winged god, the Taliban blow up a Buddha. Both rightly considered vandalism. The IRA blow up Nelson statue in Dublin. Something considered understandable? One man’s statement is another’s crime.

The Boston tea party was protest which eventually led to a war for the establishment of the land of the free. Well free for some.

Personally I believe the statue attack was more part of cancel culture than BLM. The four all appear white too. If BLM to them then pity they didn’t show as much concern for the tragic loss of so many young lives through stabbings on our streets.

I don’t see those self righteous chaps marching through cities about that?

Statues I rarely like but endure along with many other reminders of our inglorious past. I used to go to college in an old workhouse. Nobody tore that old place down dispute it’s largely forgotten horrors.

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By *eeBee67Man
over a year ago

Masked and Distant

Plain and simple vandalism.

Perhaps they should have put more effort into informing people about the accurate history of Colston rather than seeking social media instant gratification / fame?

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By *idnight RamblerMan
over a year ago

Pershore

The verdict is a disgrace and makes a mockery of the law. Either vandalism of public property is a crime or it isn't. It set's a dangerous precedent to interpret laws according to how offended the perpetrators were at the time.

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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago

Bristol

So when do we start burning all the books then?

Oh! wait!!

thats already benn done

It's a bit like the OJ simpson trial, all if the evidence both photo and pysical but he got off too!

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

Agree with this although arguably this incident has made it more likely that children will get opportunities for a more balanced history.

Everybody has heard about the Boston Tea Party. Nobody has heard about the Boston Polite Protest Against English Rule.

Women did not get the vote by polite protestation to the authorities.

Child labour was not made history because of the good nature of the mill owners.

The Magna Carta did not get written by nicely asking King John.

The ones with power NEVER voluntarily give up that power.

Sometimes when all legal avenues for protest have been exhausted and a community has been ignored and frustrated, the only recourse is direct action.

Direct Action ?

Also go read about the Peterloo Massacre to understand the things that the ruling classes are prepared to do in order to keep hold of their power.

Without direct action by the oppressed through the ages, this country would still have a feudal society with zero freedom for anybody except the very few at the top of the pile.

This is still absolutely true today."

So it's like a Wolfy Smith thing?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Thank you for being a voice of reason in a very ranty thread x

Sorry this was for Inconceivable x"

Ah thank you very much

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don’t think they should have had a right to move it personally and think there’s a better way to open the discussion about such things.

I think it opens very dangerous precedent for ‘justice’."

This

Didn't sit well with me either

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Plain and simple vandalism.

Perhaps they should have put more effort into informing people about the accurate history of Colston rather than seeking social media instant gratification / fame?

Many many people did put effort into informing people about Colston since the early 1990s in Bristol.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So when do we start burning all the books then?

Oh! wait!!

thats already benn done

It's a bit like the OJ simpson trial, all if the evidence both photo and pysical but he got off too!

Hyperbole adds nothing to a discussion

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The verdict is a disgrace and makes a mockery of the law. Either vandalism of public property is a crime or it isn't. It set's a dangerous precedent to interpret laws according to how offended the perpetrators were at the time. "

So because you disagree with the verdict in a court of law - it's a dangerous precedent?

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By *yron69 OP Man
over a year ago

Fareham

"So when do we start burning all the books then?

Oh! wait!!

thats already benn done

It's a bit like the OJ simpson trial, all if the evidence both photo and pysical but he got off too!

Hyperbole adds nothing to a discussion "

I thought this was a rant…?

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By *ustyshowoffCouple
over a year ago

Cyprus

They were guilty and we all know it. Had they ripped down some statue of a historical black guy they'd be in prison now.

I'm a for equality but positive racism is racism all the same.

Mark

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"ISIS smash up an Assyrian winged god, the Taliban blow up a Buddha. Both rightly considered vandalism. The IRA blow up Nelson statue in Dublin. Something considered understandable? One man’s statement is another’s crime.

The Boston tea party was protest which eventually led to a war for the establishment of the land of the free. Well free for some.

I don’t see those self righteous chaps marching through cities about that?

Do you have any facts about what the campaigners actually campaign about? What the accused have protested about? Do you really think only black people should care about issues that affect black people? That white people shouldn't have been protesting George Floyd's murder?

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By *yron69 OP Man
over a year ago

Fareham

I know little about Colston or the majority of wigged men that are cast in bronze or stone in our cities. Alfred the Great stands proud in nearby Winchester but maybe he is offensive still to Danes or pagans?

I wonder should the druids drag him from his perch what the law would do?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They were guilty and we all know it. Had they ripped down some statue of a historical black guy they'd be in prison now.

I'm a for equality but positive racism is racism all the same.

Mark"

Name a statue of a historical black guy in the UK.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Strangely now we are expected to believe a multicultural Roman Britain was a cause for celebration. Not for the Celts is wasn’t .

The British Empire was built in the face of wars with France and Holland. It wasn’t a plan however some profited. X

How is this a response to the previous comment?

What are you on about?"

That's what I said. Your comment followed one about whitewashing history in schools and your response didn't make sense.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So when do we start burning all the books then?

Oh! wait!!

thats already benn done

It's a bit like the OJ simpson trial, all if the evidence both photo and pysical but he got off too!

Hyperbole adds nothing to a discussion

I thought this was a rant…?"

A hyperbolic one

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Eradicte history we can't change?

He supported hospitals, schools, churches at the time and not only in Bristol.

Some of his charitable foundations continue......

I mean the plaque change said it all....

Shame the children of tomorrow can't learn from it....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I know little about Colston or the majority of wigged men that are cast in bronze or stone in our cities. Alfred the Great stands proud in nearby Winchester but maybe he is offensive still to Danes or pagans?

I wonder should the druids drag him from his perch what the law would do?"

Judging by your responses you'd prefer statues of straw men.

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By *yron69 OP Man
over a year ago

Fareham

The Boston tea party was protest which eventually led to a war for the establishment of the land of the free. Well free for some.

I don’t see those self righteous chaps marching through cities about that?

I live with black people. Fact. We disagree and agree to disagree. Most things though we agree on. I stood up to the NT about the lack of information on sl*very in one of their stately homes. Quiet very British protest. My voice along with others had that changed. That’s my point.

The fact that noisy students did it their way and got away with it fair enough. But like someone not getting enough years for murder I think the fact they got away Scott free slightly troubling.

I voice an opinion in an increasingly shouty world.

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By *yron69 OP Man
over a year ago

Fareham

I wonder should the druids drag him from his perch what the law would do?

Judging by your responses you'd prefer statues of straw men. "

That’s your tactic . Not mine.

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

"They were guilty and we all know it. Had they ripped down some statue of a historical black guy they'd be in prison now.

I'm a for equality but positive racism is racism all the same.

Mark

Name a statue of a historical black guy in the UK. "

Thierry Henry

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Eradicte history we can't change?

He supported hospitals, schools, churches at the time and not only in Bristol.

Some of his charitable foundations continue......

I mean the plaque change said it all....

Shame the children of tomorrow can't learn from it...."

That's just a part of the history.

Kinda the point.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I wonder should the druids drag him from his perch what the law would do?

Judging by your responses you'd prefer statues of straw men.

That’s your tactic . Not mine."

Righto

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By *ustyshowoffCouple
over a year ago

Cyprus

"They were guilty and we all know it. Had they ripped down some statue of a historical black guy they'd be in prison now.

I'm a for equality but positive racism is racism all the same.

Mark

Name a statue of a historical black guy in the UK. "

Apparently there are a couple of Nelson Mandela ??

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

Can we now assume that anyone caught defacing the mural of Marcus Rashford say, will be able to use the same defence?

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By *eeBee67Man
over a year ago

Masked and Distant

"Plain and simple vandalism.

Perhaps they should have put more effort into informing people about the accurate history of Colston rather than seeking social media instant gratification / fame?

Many many people did put effort into informing people about Colston since the early 1990s in Bristol."

And it should have continued in that vain. Tearing down a statue is vandalism, it may have got more publicity and media attention, but it was vandalism.

Typing this while watching footage of Americans storming congress.....

Demonstrating and protesting is the right thing to do, but vandalism and rioting is illegal.

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By *idnight RamblerMan
over a year ago

Pershore

So because you disagree with the verdict in a court of law - it's a dangerous precedent? "

Oh come off it, we all watched this crime unfolding on national TV. The facts are indisputable. The defendant's defence was that their actions were mitigated because they were offended. Now that defence will get trotted out in court for all acts of mindless vandalism.

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By *yron69 OP Man
over a year ago

Fareham

"Plain and simple vandalism.

Perhaps they should have put more effort into informing people about the accurate history of Colston rather than seeking social media instant gratification / fame?

Many many people did put effort into informing people about Colston since the early 1990s in Bristol.

And it should have continued in that vain. Tearing down a statue is vandalism, it may have got more publicity and media attention, but it was vandalism.

Typing this while watching footage of Americans storming congress.....

Demonstrating and protesting is the right thing to do, but vandalism and rioting is illegal."
ze

Ah but those Americans were a mob weren’t they?

When is a mob not a mob?

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By *ean counterMan
over a year ago

Kettering

This just about sums up 21st century great britain!! It's vandalism, nothing else. Unfortunately every solicitor defending some scumbag who's been accused of vandalism will use this case to get them off. Well done the great british justice system !!

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

Did this not get decided by a jury?

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By *eeBee67Man
over a year ago

Masked and Distant

"Did this not get decided by a jury?"

Yes but it offends me so I have a right to tear it down (verbally).

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"Firstly there was far more than 4 of them it was only 4 of them that had criminal charges filed against them.

It doesn't matter what I think because a court has found them innocent. "

It really does matter what you think.

They had trial by jury and whilst we have to abide by the results of that trial, juries are made up of people from every walk of life who know absolutely nothing about law and arrive at a verdict via personal belief and bias...

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

"Firstly there was far more than 4 of them it was only 4 of them that had criminal charges filed against them.

It doesn't matter what I think because a court has found them innocent.

It really does matter what you think.

And the Defence Barristers played on this.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Eradicte history we can't change?

He supported hospitals, schools, churches at the time and not only in Bristol.

Some of his charitable foundations continue......

I mean the plaque change said it all....

Shame the children of tomorrow can't learn from it....

That's just a part of the history.

Kinda the point."

Was the point, but it's been distributed...the plaque already told us what a naughty person he was in the minds of the 21st century human.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

destroyed not distributed

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Eradicte history we can't change?

He supported hospitals, schools, churches at the time and not only in Bristol.

Some of his charitable foundations continue......

I mean the plaque change said it all....

Shame the children of tomorrow can't learn from it....

That's just a part of the history.

Kinda the point.

Was the point, but it's been distributed...the plaque already told us what a naughty person he was in the minds of the 21st century human."

But interesting you didn't list that.

It's a question of how the balance is best addressed. Arguably not at all prior to this.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"They faced the court and the jury and that really is justice..

Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6..

They walk away without a stain on their charachters..

They were acquitted Tom. It doesn't follow that their characters are unstained. Not in my world.

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By *eeBee67Man
over a year ago

Masked and Distant

We learn from history.

If its not accurate we dont learn the full facts, we end up with a skewed perspective.

If we erase all that offends us then we will not learn from it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Eradicte history we can't change?

He supported hospitals, schools, churches at the time and not only in Bristol.

Some of his charitable foundations continue......

I mean the plaque change said it all....

Shame the children of tomorrow can't learn from it....

That's just a part of the history.

Kinda the point.

Was the point, but it's been distributed...the plaque already told us what a naughty person he was in the minds of the 21st century human.

But interesting you didn't list that.

It's a question of how the balance is best addressed. Arguably not at all prior to this."

I did mention the plaque change.

Do you want the quote from it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

...and the plaque change WAS the balance.....

It never mentioned his charities, what more do you want.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Eradicte history we can't change?

He supported hospitals, schools, churches at the time and not only in Bristol.

Some of his charitable foundations continue......

I mean the plaque change said it all....

Shame the children of tomorrow can't learn from it....

That's just a part of the history.

Kinda the point.

Was the point, but it's been distributed...the plaque already told us what a naughty person he was in the minds of the 21st century human.

But interesting you didn't list that.

It's a question of how the balance is best addressed. Arguably not at all prior to this.

I did mention the plaque change.

Do you want the quote from it?"

Well you could add it to your list. For balance.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"...and the plaque change WAS the balance.....

It never mentioned his charities, what more do you want.....

I guess it's a question of what a statue represents.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I went through the school system in the 60's & 70's and the unsavoury history of the trade was certainly taught then, plus how it was brought to an end, which is conveniently forgotten. The European trade was started by the Portugese and followed on by most countries. Of course before that there were the Barbary traders who took people from European coasts in the early 17th century for the North African markets, but of course that doesn't count because it doesn't fit the narrative. How far do we go back? The trade was never an issue of colour, it was, and still is an issue of exploitation of the vulnerable. Look up the modern trade if you are really interested, or don't bother and just go with the wokeness..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Eradicte history we can't change?

He supported hospitals, schools, churches at the time and not only in Bristol.

Some of his charitable foundations continue......

I mean the plaque change said it all....

Shame the children of tomorrow can't learn from it....

That's just a part of the history.

Kinda the point.

Was the point, but it's been distributed...the plaque already told us what a naughty person he was in the minds of the 21st century human.

But interesting you didn't list that.

It's a question of how the balance is best addressed. Arguably not at all prior to this.

I did mention the plaque change.

Do you want the quote from it?

Well you could add it to your list. For balance."

Well it's there on Google where I read it this morning...

I balanced out the good side of him. So thanks for pointing that out...

Appreciated

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

"They faced the court and the jury and that really is justice..

Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6..

They walk away without a stain on their charachters..

They were acquitted Tom. It doesn't follow that their characters are unstained. Not in my world. "

Surely if a jury aquits then they are innocent. Bit like Prince Andrew. If a jury aquits him if it goes to court then he is not guilty

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By *oublethefunMan
over a year ago

royston

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"...and the plaque change WAS the balance.....

It never mentioned his charities, what more do you want.....

I guess it's a question of what a statue represents.

The one we are fighting over

Had a plaque that told us about his very bad ways...it's a great insight into half of him.

Not read it?

You'll find on google

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By *oublethefunMan
over a year ago

royston

"I don’t think they should have had a right to move it personally and think there’s a better way to open the discussion about such things.

I think it opens very dangerous precedent for ‘justice’.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"Plain and simple vandalism.

Perhaps they should have put more effort into informing people about the accurate history of Colston rather than seeking social media instant gratification / fame?

Many many people did put effort into informing people about Colston since the early 1990s in Bristol.

And it should have continued in that vain. Tearing down a statue is vandalism, it may have got more publicity and media attention, but it was vandalism.

Typing this while watching footage of Americans storming congress.....

Demonstrating and protesting is the right thing to do, but vandalism and rioting is illegal. ze

Ah but those Americans were a mob weren’t they?

When is a mob not a mob? "

When you are called Milo or Sage ...... or have the last name ponsonby ?

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By *annaBeStrongMan
over a year ago

wokingham

Couldn’t get it done properly so they took the matter into their own hands

Opens the door for others to do the same now

I think it’s vandalism / destruction of property and they should have been sentenced

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"...and the plaque change WAS the balance.....

It never mentioned his charities, what more do you want.....

I guess it's a question of what a statue represents.

The one we are fighting over

Had a plaque that told us about his very bad ways...it's a great insight into half of him.

Not read it?

You'll find on google"

*Represents* as in why do we choose to erect statues.

Are they people to be celebrated?

I don't need to see statues of Nazis to learn about their history.

Same can be said for sl_ave traders.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"Plain and simple vandalism.

Perhaps they should have put more effort into informing people about the accurate history of Colston rather than seeking social media instant gratification / fame?

Many many people did put effort into informing people about Colston since the early 1990s in Bristol.

And it should have continued in that vain. Tearing down a statue is vandalism, it may have got more publicity and media attention, but it was vandalism.

Typing this while watching footage of Americans storming congress.....

Demonstrating and protesting is the right thing to do, but vandalism and rioting is illegal. ze

Ah but those Americans were a mob weren’t they?

When is a mob not a mob?

When you are called Milo or Sage ...... or have the last name ponsonby ?"

Correction ..... Ponsford..... and Willoughby - I rest my bias M'lord.

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By *oublethefunMan
over a year ago

royston

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By *annaBeStrongMan
over a year ago

wokingham

If I remember correctly it was England’s Royal Navy that played a big part in stopping the sl@ve trade eventually because they ruled the seas at the time. Once England decided against it they used the full force of the navy to enforce it

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By *oublethefunMan
over a year ago

royston

"We learn from history.

If its not accurate we dont learn the full facts, we end up with a skewed perspective.

If we erase all that offends us then we will not learn from it.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"They faced the court and the jury and that really is justice..

Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6..

They walk away without a stain on their charachters..

They were acquitted Tom. It doesn't follow that their characters are unstained. Not in my world.

Surely if a jury aquits then they are innocent. Bit like Prince Andrew. If a jury aquits him if it goes to court then he is not guilty "

No Tom. If only life were that simple.

I accept they are 'not guilty' in law. I do not accept that they are not guilty or that they are innocent of vandalism.

I believe they believe that they acted in the interests of what they believe they acted in the interests of but that doesn't take away the fact that they destroyed the property of another. That is what they were on trial for and all else should not be taken into account. Not in my world.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"...and the plaque change WAS the balance.....

It never mentioned his charities, what more do you want.....

I guess it's a question of what a statue represents.

The one we are fighting over

Had a plaque that told us about his very bad ways...it's a great insight into half of him.

Not read it?

You'll find on google

*Represents* as in why do we choose to erect statues.

Are they people to be celebrated?

I don't need to see statues of Nazis to learn about their history.

Same can be said for sl_ave traders."

Did they choose them to celebrate?

More to brag the status symbol...

Is your gripe about a part of a person or only one particular point about them?

I'm not quite sure....

If you could tell me the benefit of removal, I might be able to learn something here.....

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By *lairekTV/TS
over a year ago

Manchester

Do you think that future cases should be able to reference this case?

It sounds like a significant number believe that direct action is legally acceptable.

Clearly, the jury did, so why shouldn't other future jurors be consistent?

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By *yron69 OP Man
over a year ago

Fareham

The Riyal Navy was in part established to stop we English becoming sl@ves!

Their was a time when the Barbary Corsairs attacked many of our ships and took the passengers and crew back to North Africa as sl@ves. In Tunisia they consider the mixed race people up around Tunis to be descendants of English sailors!

There are many questions around the Colston statue removal. About identity. Not so much justice as identity.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Thank you

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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago

Bristol

"Did this not get decided by a jury?"

Yup a jury that did not follow the letter of the law

They made personal beliefs count and not the law

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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago

Bristol

"Do you think that future cases should be able to reference this case?

It sounds like a significant number believe that direct action is legally acceptable.

Clearly, the jury did, so why shouldn't other future jurors be consistent?"

Well I disagree with a lot of these murals that are everywhere.

So maybe it’s ok that I get some paint and just paint them out

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They were guilty and we all know it. Had they ripped down some statue of a historical black guy they'd be in prison now.

I'm a for equality but positive racism is racism all the same.

Mark

Name a statue of a historical black guy in the UK.

Apparently there are a couple of Nelson Mandela ??

I don't think there are any numbers but "a couple of nelson Mandela" possibly doesn't compare to the many hundreds of historical white figures in statuary.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Did they choose them to celebrate?

More to brag the status symbol."

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your meaning here but a statue of a sl_ave trader as a status symbol ought to be challenged.

If you could tell me the benefit of removal, I might be able to learn something here.....

The benefits are discussions like these.

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By *yron69 OP Man
over a year ago

Fareham

"They were guilty and we all know it. Had they ripped down some statue of a historical black guy they'd be in prison now.

I'm a for equality but positive racism is racism all the same.

Mark

Name a statue of a historical black guy in the UK.

Apparently there are a couple of Nelson Mandela ??

I don't think there are any numbers but "a couple of nelson Mandela" possibly doesn't compare to the many hundreds of historical white figures in statuary. "

I’d reckon most statues are pre WW2. I guess that’s why they are mainly of stale, pale and male?

You be more wiser to question the proportion of women or people from the poorer sections of society.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"They were guilty and we all know it. Had they ripped down some statue of a historical black guy they'd be in prison now.

I'm a for equality but positive racism is racism all the same.

Mark

Name a statue of a historical black guy in the UK.

Apparently there are a couple of Nelson Mandela ??

I don't think there are any numbers but "a couple of nelson Mandela" possibly doesn't compare to the many hundreds of historical white figures in statuary. "

Given THE abolishment was less than 200 years ago the imbalance is logical - good headway is being made in this redressing.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"They were guilty and we all know it. Had they ripped down some statue of a historical black guy they'd be in prison now.

I'm a for equality but positive racism is racism all the same.

Mark

Name a statue of a historical black guy in the UK.

Apparently there are a couple of Nelson Mandela ??

I don't think there are any numbers but "a couple of nelson Mandela" possibly doesn't compare to the many hundreds of historical white figures in statuary.

I’d reckon most statues are pre WW2. I guess that’s why they are mainly of stale, pale and male?

You be more wiser to question the proportion of women or people from the poorer sections of society."

Shit Byron ... Don't bring the wimmen into this ....

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By *idnight RamblerMan
over a year ago

Pershore

"Do you think that future cases should be able to reference this case?

It sounds like a significant number believe that direct action is legally acceptable.

Clearly, the jury did, so why shouldn't other future jurors be consistent?"

This case will be influential in the sense that the CPS will now consider if there is a reasonable chance of conviction. They might decide that acts of vandalism are graduated according to how offended the defendants were. Is that what we want?

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By *lairekTV/TS
over a year ago

Manchester

"Do you think that future cases should be able to reference this case?

It sounds like a significant number believe that direct action is legally acceptable.

Clearly, the jury did, so why shouldn't other future jurors be consistent?

Well I disagree with a lot of these murals that are everywhere.

So maybe it’s ok that I get some paint and just paint them out

You just have to hope that you get jurors who believe in justifiable action.

If we trawl through history I am pretty sure we can find many disagreeable events, which can not be justified using a modern perspective.

Eg, some idiots in the past decided to give specific families royalty status. I can't imagine any valid reasons for that to be right, so I feel justified in grabbing a bit of a royal palace for my own use.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Eg, some idiots in the past decided to give specific families royalty status. I can't imagine any valid reasons for that to be right, so I feel justified in grabbing a bit of a royal palace for my own use.

I'm in favour of this

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

QUOTED FROM A BBC (British Broadcasting Company ) WEBSITE........

Using online news clippings, we found 175 named statues built since 2007 across the UK.

Of these, 21 were of black and minority ethnic (BAME) individuals, including 11 of black individuals. Of these, just six of the statues were of black Britons.

Crimean War nurse Mary Seacole

A statue of West Bromwich Albion players Cyrille Regis, Brendon Batson and Laurie Cunningham (the last of whom has another statue at Leyton Orient)

Olympic medallist Dame Kelly Holmes

Footballer and soldier Walter Tull, who became the first black officer to lead white British soldiers into battle

First black professional footballer Arthur Wharton

We also found a few other outdoor, clearly-named statues from before 2007 which are not included in the PMSA list. These include a statue in Bristol of the poet and playwright Alfred Fagon.

Historic England, a charity which manages monuments and buildings, notes that just two of its listed statues are of black individuals - a bust of Nelson Mandela in London's South Bank and 'Platforms Piece' in Brixton. The latter is not included in our analysis, as the statues - created in 1986 and thought to be the first statues of black British people - are not named historical figures.

Taking all of these sources into account, we believe that there are at least 15 outdoor statues of named black individuals in the UK.

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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago

Bristol

Maybe just abolish all status and plaques after all sooner or later someone will get all offended by them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is an interesting one and will always divide people.

We need to keep history so we can learn. We also need to understand that people get offended. I disagree with the removal and throwing in the water. Maybe have it removed and put in a museum.

One this that has been forgotten. Some history was not something to be proud of. But the UK was the first country to voluntarily stop and not force to.

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By *lairekTV/TS
over a year ago

Manchester

"Maybe just abolish all status and plaques after all sooner or later someone will get all offended by them.

I agree.

Waste of bronze really.

I bet most people walk past them every day without realising who is being represented.

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By *atnip make me purrWoman
over a year ago

Reading

They made many attempts to do it the correct way. It needed to be gone and it's gone.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"Maybe just abolish all status and plaques after all sooner or later someone will get all offended by them.

I agree.

Waste of bronze really.

I bet most people walk past them every day without realising who is being represented.

Funny you should say that ......... as a life long Liver in Liverpool ( almost ) Someone said they were parked near the Victoria Monument ...... I thought the what ? and turned to see a huge marble and metal monument to the queen that I 'saw' every single day........ not a clue did I have who it was - it just was.

We do become blind to our surroundings.

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By *lairekTV/TS
over a year ago

Manchester

I'm sure some people pretend that they knew what these statues represented.

I've seen plenty of social media clips, where Black Americans openly admit to not having a clue about Britain's role in ending slaery.

Maybe they need a statue....

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By *eeBee67Man
over a year ago

Masked and Distant

"They made many attempts to do it the correct way. It needed to be gone and it's gone."

So did these 4 people actively campaign for its removal for years, get frustrated and take matters into their own hands? Or just join in group mob mentality?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They were guilty and we all know it. Had they ripped down some statue of a historical black guy they'd be in prison now.

I'm a for equality but positive racism is racism all the same.

Mark

Name a statue of a historical black guy in the UK.

Apparently there are a couple of Nelson Mandela ??

I don't think there are any numbers but "a couple of nelson Mandela" possibly doesn't compare to the many hundreds of historical white figures in statuary.

I’d reckon most statues are pre WW2. I guess that’s why they are mainly of stale, pale and male?

You be more wiser to question the proportion of women or people from the poorer sections of society."

Yes. That was my point. There aren't going to be any (many) historical statues of black men for white people to pull down in protest. And we aren't talking about women etc are we?

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By *yron69 OP Man
over a year ago

Fareham

"They were guilty and we all know it. Had they ripped down some statue of a historical black guy they'd be in prison now.

I'm a for equality but positive racism is racism all the same.

Mark

Name a statue of a historical black guy in the UK.

Apparently there are a couple of Nelson Mandela ??

I don't think there are any numbers but "a couple of nelson Mandela" possibly doesn't compare to the many hundreds of historical white figures in statuary.

I’d reckon most statues are pre WW2. I guess that’s why they are mainly of stale, pale and male?

You be more wiser to question the proportion of women or people from the poorer sections of society.

Yes. That was my point. There aren't going to be any (many) historical statues of black men for white people to pull down in protest. And we aren't talking about women etc are we?"

We’re talking about symbols that people don’t like. Hope that clears it up for you?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't think the statue of Thatcher in Grantham even got up, let alone get pulled down...

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By *oitering-With-intentMan
over a year ago

city of Lodon

It would make more sense to focus on modern day sl@very that is happening in this country now rather than tearing down statues.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"It would make more sense to focus on modern day sl@very that is happening in this country now rather than tearing down statues."

But that's not half as much an ego bolster and besides, they'd have to challenge real live people.

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By *yron69 OP Man
over a year ago

Fareham

"It would make more sense to focus on modern day sl@very that is happening in this country now rather than tearing down statues."

Makes you think doesn’t it?

What’s in the news is not necessarily as important as hidden problems .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They made many attempts to do it the correct way. It needed to be gone and it's gone.

So did these 4 people actively campaign for its removal for years, get frustrated and take matters into their own hands? Or just join in group mob mentality? "

According to the bloke on the radio just now, people had been campaigning for decades.

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By *andare63Man
over a year ago

oldham

This verdict is a license for louts

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"They made many attempts to do it the correct way. It needed to be gone and it's gone.

So did these 4 people actively campaign for its removal for years, get frustrated and take matters into their own hands? Or just join in group mob mentality? "

People had campaigned but NOT these four no ......

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By *oitering-With-intentMan
over a year ago

city of Lodon

"It would make more sense to focus on modern day sl@very that is happening in this country now rather than tearing down statues.

Makes you think doesn’t it?

What’s in the news is not necessarily as important as hidden problems . "

It all most makes you think the news is designed to divide people so there can be a great reset. But you'd have to have a tin foil hat to believe that

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By *utcock61Man
over a year ago

glasgow

[Removed by poster at 06/01/22 08:59:43]

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By *accaMan
over a year ago

leicester

"Eradicte history we can't change?

He supported hospitals, schools, churches at the time and not only in Bristol.

Some of his charitable foundations continue......

I mean the plaque change said it all....

Shame the children of tomorrow can't learn from it...."

Finally someone mentioning other achievements in his life, the man did an awful lot of good for Bristol and surrounding areas yet that's completely forgotten. Our country has a history both good and bad as does every country in the world. We learn from history, we change as we learn, but we shouldn't try and remove history just because part of it we don't like. History will remain just has this whole episode is now history.

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By *ubal1Man
over a year ago

Newry Down

"Firstly there was far more than 4 of them it was only 4 of them that had criminal charges filed against them.

It doesn't matter what I think because a court has found them innocent.

This is wholly inaccurate. The court,(jurors) found that they were not guilty of the charge; there is a fundamental premise yo criminal law, in that one is presumed innocent until the jury reaches its decision, of either guilty or not guilty.

They left the courtroom in the same state that they had arrived: innocent.

The charge had not been proved to the criminal standard: beyond a reasonable doubt.

This is a common error of lay persons.

The standard in civil cases is proof on the balance of probability, a much lower, less rigorous standard of proof.

But, my own opinion, is that it was right and proper to get rid of the Colston statue; for symbolic reasons it should have remained in the harbour. S#ave owners were the antecedents of the Nazi party: eugenecists , racists, and exploiters.

S#aves who wished to escape were deemed at that time to have a mental illness for wanting to escape their bonds, shackles, beatings, #ape, etc.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

[Removed by poster at 06/01/22 09:02:11]

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"It would make more sense to focus on modern day sl@very that is happening in this country now rather than tearing down statues.

Makes you think doesn’t it?

What’s in the news is not necessarily as important as hidden problems .

It all most makes you think the news is designed to divide people so there can be a great reset. But you'd have to have a tin foil hat to believe that

I have 2 if you need my spare ?

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By *attPaulaCouple
over a year ago

Blackpool

"Anyone who is not white commenting? A different perspective perhaps."

Ah, good old identitarian tribal think. You assume, of course, that there are respective 'lanes' of thought based on ethnicity.

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By *accaMan
over a year ago

leicester

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Anyone who is not white commenting? A different perspective perhaps.

Ah, good old identitarian tribal think. You assume, of course, that there are respective 'lanes' of thought based on ethnicity."

Up until I commented not a single non-white person had commented. I didn't make assumptions about what they might think but you've made assumptions about me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm in favour of this

The idiots in the past are those ones who had the statue made of themselves. They had the money, on the back of sl@very to build these Western Countries.

Disgusting I know...

BUT that's how they lived and developed ...18th Century living eh...where would we have been without it...

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"Anyone who is not white commenting? A different perspective perhaps.

Ah, good old identitarian tribal think. You assume, of course, that there are respective 'lanes' of thought based on ethnicity.

Up until I commented not a single non-white person had commented. I didn't make assumptions about what they might think but you've made assumptions about me."

There was a non white poster before you commented.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Did they choose them to celebrate?

More to brag the status symbol.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your meaning here but a statue of a sl_ave trader as a status symbol ought to be challenged.

If you could tell me the benefit of removal, I might be able to learn something here.....

The benefits are discussions like these."

My head's in the 18th Century mindset and the history of it to learn from....that includes statues... I don't walk by them

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By *uicyfruit4000Couple
over a year ago

Plymouth

Never thought I'd be commenting on a post on Colston on Fab, but here we go!

The trans Atlantic s*ave trade underpinned Bristol's wealth, and so Colston was celebrated by Bristol for a long time for bringing wealth to the city. There is a Colston fund to this day, that still benefits different people, communities in the city for local good. There is a board that decides who/what the money should be spent on and who it should benefit.

So over the decades when the city debated should the statue be taken down, this was always raised. ...We know about the history being bad, but hasn't he also done a lot of good? Lets keep the statue up and let people keep debating it. Lets not change it, and pretend it didn't happen, it reminds us of both sides to a story.

Now think about Jimmy Saville. He raised hundreds upon thousands in the 1970s for multiple good causes. He came to a local school to me and the crowds gathered and showered money on the fair and hundreds was raised. The same money wouldn't have been raised had the celebrity not been there, much in the same way as any celebrity coming, it raises money.

Then we all realised who the true Jimmy Saville was, and statues were taken down, the 'Jimmy Saville Hall' at the Royal Marines was promptly given a different name, as it would be sick and vile to keep a hall named after a peadeophile.

But apparently it is ok to keep up a statue of Colston? Colston was a mass murderer. There are thousands of people in Bristol who have appealed for years to take down his statue and remember him in another way, e.g. in a museum. Not to give him pride of place?

He did know that people died on his ships. He did know that his money was dirty money. When the s*ave trade was abolished, the s*ave traders were compensated for their loss. Can you imagine saying 'sorry Jimmy, you can't do that to little girls any more, or vulnerable women, but heres some cash to soften the blow'???

Are we so unable to connect with the thousands that died on those ships because it was so long ago? or because they were black? Or because we don't learn about it in school? Or because we still want the Commonwealth and all the wealth that has grown from our colonial history? Just have a think about why we think its ok to leave the statue of a mass murderer up, but we'll take down anything than mentioned a pediophile asap. Jimmy affected hundreds of lives. Colston affected thousands upon thousands. And if that was your ancestor, you would be affected by it too. Its not that long ago.

BTW Fab won't let me write s * a v e but will let me write peado.

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By *m3232Man
over a year ago

maidenhead

"This verdict is a license for mob rule. How can it be seen any other way? Who now decides which statues and symbols can be torn down?"

Totally agree. Bring back riot squads and water cannons if they where taken away.

If we don’t come down hard on these people mob riot will only get worse.

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

"I don't think the statue of Thatcher in Grantham even got up, let alone get pulled down..."

They've put an empty plinthe up opposite the townhall.

The project has been mired in controversy over the costs involved.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It would make more sense to focus on modern day sl@very that is happening in this country now rather than tearing down statues."

Why do you think both aren't being focussed on? There is a considerable effort for some years to tackle modern sl@very - the Modern Sl@very Act 2015 for starters.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Anyone who is not white commenting? A different perspective perhaps.

Ah, good old identitarian tribal think. You assume, of course, that there are respective 'lanes' of thought based on ethnicity.

Up until I commented not a single non-white person had commented. I didn't make assumptions about what they might think but you've made assumptions about me.

There was a non white poster before you commented. "

Then I missed the comment. My bad.

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By *Cocksucker84Man
over a year ago

salford

The Boston tea party was protest which eventually led to a war for the establishment of the land of the free. Well free for some.

I don’t see those self righteous chaps marching through cities about that?

Is the implication here that black people are never the victims of knife crime, or that some young black teenagers don't turn to crime because of cuts to public services that would give them an incentive to not turn to crime in the first place?

Statues cannot be reminders of an inglorious past if they signify only the good parts of that person or that person's character without ever mentioning that they were involved in things like the sl@ve trade. Many of the complaints before the statue was toppled were about how there was a refusal by the council to recognise this. The irony of many saying history is being erased is that now that the statue has been pulled down, people are way more aware of the bad things done by Colston rather than the just the good. So it cannot be a part of cancel culture if we all now know because it's been highlighted. We need to be more bothered by the closure of libraries and cuts to the arts and museum funding rather than the taking down of statues. As a History graduate I've never once chosen to use a statue as a learning point in any project, and I've never been asked to use one as a verifiable historical source either.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I actually came from a Town where a very rich man of the time, helped to abolish sl@very.

There's a lovey statue on a hill, for us all to learn from.

Suppose it's easier for a child to point and ask "Who's that Mum", than expect them to go to local museums or read books from a library....

Maybe schools should teach more about local history....

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By *attPaulaCouple
over a year ago

Blackpool

"They were guilty and we all know it. Had they ripped down some statue of a historical black guy they'd be in prison now.

I'm a for equality but positive racism is racism all the same.

Mark

Name a statue of a historical black guy in the UK. "

Nelson Mandela, Parliament Square.

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By *ubal1Man
over a year ago

Newry Down

Pirates, hundreds of years ago stole an entire village from County Cork in Ireland, and brought them to Africa to be sold as s#aves.

This is why there are people with red hair and blue eyes in North Africa.

Mankind is a vicious and exploitative species, like Chimps but unlike Bonobos.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"QUOTED FROM A BBC (British Broadcasting Company ) WEBSITE........

Using online news clippings, we found 175 named statues built since 2007 across the UK.

Of these, 21 were of black and minority ethnic (BAME) individuals, including 11 of black individuals. Of these, just six of the statues were of black Britons.

Crimean War nurse Mary Seacole

A statue of West Bromwich Albion players Cyrille Regis, Brendon Batson and Laurie Cunningham (the last of whom has another statue at Leyton Orient)

Olympic medallist Dame Kelly Holmes

Footballer and soldier Walter Tull, who became the first black officer to lead white British soldiers into battle

First black professional footballer Arthur Wharton

We also found a few other outdoor, clearly-named statues from before 2007 which are not included in the PMSA list. These include a statue in Bristol of the poet and playwright Alfred Fagon.

Taking all of these sources into account, we believe that there are at least 15 outdoor statues of named black individuals in the UK.

That's very good to read, thank you Granny. I'm glad the imbalance is being addressed.

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By *immyinreadingMan
over a year ago

henley on thames

"Vandals or were they right to remove the statue?"

Vandals. Endangered themselves and others. And damaged property.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"This verdict is a license for mob rule. How can it be seen any other way? Who now decides which statues and symbols can be torn down?

Totally agree. Bring back riot squads and water cannons if they where taken away.

If we don’t come down hard on these people mob riot will only get worse. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I actually came from a Town where a very rich man of the time, helped to abolish sl@very.

There's a lovey statue on a hill, for us all to learn from.

Suppose it's easier for a child to point and ask "Who's that Mum", than expect them to go to local museums or read books from a library....

Maybe schools should teach more about local history....

Schools do teach about Wilberforce here.

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By *attPaulaCouple
over a year ago

Blackpool

"Did this not get decided by a jury?"

And there is the flaw in a system that's better than the alternatives.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm interested to know what will replace it and who will fund!

Maybe a whip round starting on here first?

But if nobody takes any notice of these magnificent erections, maybe it's best they spend nothing at all.....

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By *accaMan
over a year ago

leicester

"They were guilty and we all know it. Had they ripped down some statue of a historical black guy they'd be in prison now.

I'm a for equality but positive racism is racism all the same.

Mark

Name a statue of a historical black guy in the UK.

Apparently there are a couple of Nelson Mandela ??

I don't think there are any numbers but "a couple of nelson Mandela" possibly doesn't compare to the many hundreds of historical white figures in statuary. "

We are an historically white nation, why would we have statues of African/Asian figures from hundreds of years ago. I wonder why Nigeria hasn't got a statue of Nelson, oh hang on, he had no relevance to their history at all.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Just have a think about why we think its ok to leave the statue of a mass murderer up, "

This is the most pertinent question.

I can understand people being indignant at how things were done.

But I don't understand why people would defend that such statues should remain. Unless perhaps they're left to be shat on by pigeons.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Never thought I'd be commenting on a post on Colston on Fab, but here we go!

BTW Fab won't let me write s * a v e but will let me write peado. "

Well said..

Tainted money from the wealthy which is earned literally on the backs of others who were exploited in the most inhumane ways man can create and then handed out to buy respectability is still dirty money..

I don't agree with the act carried out but can see why it did happen as the elected representatives in Bristol have for decades ignored the majority who wanted the statue addressed..

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

"Maybe just abolish all status and plaques after all sooner or later someone will get all offended by them.

I agree.

Waste of bronze really.

I bet most people walk past them every day without realising who is being represented.

We do become blind to our surroundings."

Yes Granny ... There is a fit bronzed virile male right here on your doorstep yet you fail to see him...

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