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baby killers

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By *topthepress OP   Man
over a year ago

MANCHESTER

i would like to know if these so called social child workers who dont spot this stuff still have jobs

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By *opsy RogersWoman
over a year ago

London


"i would like to know if these so called social child workers who dont spot this stuff still have jobs "

That just goes to show you know NOTHING about the abysmal state the social work service is in.

I knew that headline would fuel this type of narrow minded, finger pointing idiocy.

They system is utterly broken and has been for years, just like the NHS, police, ambulance, fire service......

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"i would like to know if these so called social child workers who dont spot this stuff still have jobs "

Don’t dare blame a social worker.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Cut/paste from someone who puts it better than me. Can’t believe some peoples attitudes.

“Ive been following the Arthur story and like everyone else I am horrified, angry and want justice. But please DO NOT blame child protection social workers for this little boy's tragic murder.

They are not the police, they do not have police powers of entry or arrest. They cannot just 'take a child' there are laws and solicitors and courts involved and many other people - it is NOT the social workers decision to remove, ultimately. It is a judges. They cannot force people to give them information, they cannot coerce or threaten people. They can only work with what they know and what they'know' has to be agreed with by others.

Child Protection is one of the hardest jobs in the world to do I do not care what anyone says. They have none of the power and all of the responsbility. People like Arthurs care givers are the reason a lot of us went into social work - we dedicate our lives to finding these kids and making them safe, and then assisting the police with the parents to make sure they face JUSTICE.

To remove a child takes hours and hours of debate, negotiation, risk assessment and planning by up to 10 different agencies and lawyers. IT IS NOT JUST A CASE OF TAKING ONE AWAY.

Please be kind to social workers in England and Wales especially whilst anger like this is high, they work damn hard 24/7 365 and its not fair.”

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By *oan of DArcCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow


"i would like to know if these so called social child workers who dont spot this stuff still have jobs

That just goes to show you know NOTHING about the abysmal state the social work service is in.

I knew that headline would fuel this type of narrow minded, finger pointing idiocy.

They system is utterly broken and has been for years, just like the NHS, police, ambulance, fire service......"

Very true, as much as things like this should never happen it's a miracle they don't happen more given demand and increase in thresholds to manage that demand which set up a perfect storm for disaster.

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By *ired_upMan
over a year ago

ashton

It's like blaming the people in A&E that people are dieing in hospital.

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By *LiamMan
over a year ago

Midlands

Who ever hurts kids deserves to die.

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By *hroatQueen_CATV/TS
over a year ago

Carlisle

I saw that about the little girl! Who was even younger shocking. So sad

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Cut/paste from someone who puts it better than me. Can’t believe some peoples attitudes.

“Ive been following the Arthur story and like everyone else I am horrified, angry and want justice. But please DO NOT blame child protection social workers for this little boy's tragic murder.

They are not the police, they do not have police powers of entry or arrest. They cannot just 'take a child' there are laws and solicitors and courts involved and many other people - it is NOT the social workers decision to remove, ultimately. It is a judges. They cannot force people to give them information, they cannot coerce or threaten people. They can only work with what they know and what they'know' has to be agreed with by others.

Child Protection is one of the hardest jobs in the world to do I do not care what anyone says. They have none of the power and all of the responsbility. People like Arthurs care givers are the reason a lot of us went into social work - we dedicate our lives to finding these kids and making them safe, and then assisting the police with the parents to make sure they face JUSTICE.

To remove a child takes hours and hours of debate, negotiation, risk assessment and planning by up to 10 different agencies and lawyers. IT IS NOT JUST A CASE OF TAKING ONE AWAY.

Please be kind to social workers in England and Wales especially whilst anger like this is high, they work damn hard 24/7 365 and its not fair.”"

Agreed, people think it's so simple and they speak with the benefit of hindsight and all the pieces shown at once. I'm not saying there aren't shortfalls in the system of course there are but the person responsible for these children's deaths are the very ones who should be protecting them, parents/carers!

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By *hroatQueen_CATV/TS
over a year ago

Carlisle


"Who ever hurts kids deserves to die. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Cut/paste from someone who puts it better than me. Can’t believe some peoples attitudes.

“Ive been following the Arthur story and like everyone else I am horrified, angry and want justice. But please DO NOT blame child protection social workers for this little boy's tragic murder.

They are not the police, they do not have police powers of entry or arrest. They cannot just 'take a child' there are laws and solicitors and courts involved and many other people - it is NOT the social workers decision to remove, ultimately. It is a judges. They cannot force people to give them information, they cannot coerce or threaten people. They can only work with what they know and what they'know' has to be agreed with by others.

Child Protection is one of the hardest jobs in the world to do I do not care what anyone says. They have none of the power and all of the responsbility. People like Arthurs care givers are the reason a lot of us went into social work - we dedicate our lives to finding these kids and making them safe, and then assisting the police with the parents to make sure they face JUSTICE.

To remove a child takes hours and hours of debate, negotiation, risk assessment and planning by up to 10 different agencies and lawyers. IT IS NOT JUST A CASE OF TAKING ONE AWAY.

Please be kind to social workers in England and Wales especially whilst anger like this is high, they work damn hard 24/7 365 and its not fair.”"

So well said, thank you for sharing this!

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By *agerMorganMan
over a year ago

Canvey Island

You're going to get absolute Hellfire & Brimstone for that post OP.

Despite it being reported 5 times that something was wrong, both from the babysitter & family members and closed each time with the statement "Nothing is wrong".

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By *topthepress OP   Man
over a year ago

MANCHESTER


"You're going to get absolute Hellfire & Brimstone for that post OP.

Despite it being reported 5 times that something was wrong, both from the babysitter & family members and closed each time with the statement "Nothing is wrong". so are the people who decided that nothing is wrong still employed

"

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By *heGateKeeperMan
over a year ago

Stratford

Too many variable factors but fundamentally the people who commit these heinous crimes are very good at manipulating people and playing the system.

They know when to move, they known when to present at different hospitals, all the right things to say and how to detract attention from their behaviours towards the child

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By *agerMorganMan
over a year ago

Canvey Island


"You're going to get absolute Hellfire & Brimstone for that post OP.

Despite it being reported 5 times that something was wrong, both from the babysitter & family members and closed each time with the statement "Nothing is wrong".

so are the people who decided that nothing is wrong still employed

"

Well, yes. It's not a murder charge. It's a procedural problem. That & the abusive mothers did everything to cover up bruises etc to make it look as though nothing was wrong.

Until the report comes out from Bradford council as to what happened, it's speculative right now.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Want to blame someone? Then do you remember Victoria Climbié? What about ‘Baby P’? What did they all have in common? They all had multiple public enquiries and promises that it could never happen again by a government who them continued to slash funding for social care. They’ll say funding is up, and it is, for late stage intervention, ie where it’s too late. It’s down overall for intervention full stop. Meaning kids aren’t caught early by a social care system than can make a difference, they can only react to awful abuse, discovered late. Even if this doesn’t lead to a death it’s still atrocious.

Honestly, let’s hope no one you know ever needs the attention of any ‘so called’ professional of any sort.

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By *yron69Man
over a year ago

Fareham

Only the police can remove a child from its home.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Did you know a social worker can't speak to a child of talking age without the parents consent? Meaning that an abusive parent will say no and a social worker has to try and see the situation for what it truly is. With an manipulative abuser giving all the talk, hiding what they can, that social worker has to determine what is the truth. These visits are scheduled, meaning the abuser can coerce the child into feeling safe in that moment.

I can't even imagine doing this job, even if it is blatantly in their face a child is in danger, they aren't able to scoop them up in their arms and march out of the house with them. They have that painstaking moment leaving the house knowing that child needs help. They have to go back and do immense amounts of paperwork to get the ball rolling to even try and get the child out of the situation. All whilst knowing they have more children to see, more visits, more investigation, more paperwork, more torture, guilt and I can imagine many many sleepless nights.

I send so much love and strength to them all, they are the only people able to save these children with no power. It's heartbreaking.

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By *ig1gaz1Man
over a year ago

bradford


"Did you know a social worker can't speak to a child of talking age without the parents consent? Meaning that an abusive parent will say no and a social worker has to try and see the situation for what it truly is. With an manipulative abuser giving all the talk, hiding what they can, that social worker has to determine what is the truth. These visits are scheduled, meaning the abuser can coerce the child into feeling safe in that moment.

I can't even imagine doing this job, even if it is blatantly in their face a child is in danger, they aren't able to scoop them up in their arms and march out of the house with them. They have that painstaking moment leaving the house knowing that child needs help. They have to go back and do immense amounts of paperwork to get the ball rolling to even try and get the child out of the situation. All whilst knowing they have more children to see, more visits, more investigation, more paperwork, more torture, guilt and I can imagine many many sleepless nights.

I send so much love and strength to them all, they are the only people able to save these children with no power. It's heartbreaking."

incorrect a child can be spoken too whilst they are school without a parent being present

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No school in this case, lockdown. Unsure if this pedantic post is because you’re pedantic or in support of the OPs stance

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Did you know a social worker can't speak to a child of talking age without the parents consent? Meaning that an abusive parent will say no and a social worker has to try and see the situation for what it truly is. With an manipulative abuser giving all the talk, hiding what they can, that social worker has to determine what is the truth. These visits are scheduled, meaning the abuser can coerce the child into feeling safe in that moment.

I can't even imagine doing this job, even if it is blatantly in their face a child is in danger, they aren't able to scoop them up in their arms and march out of the house with them. They have that painstaking moment leaving the house knowing that child needs help. They have to go back and do immense amounts of paperwork to get the ball rolling to even try and get the child out of the situation. All whilst knowing they have more children to see, more visits, more investigation, more paperwork, more torture, guilt and I can imagine many many sleepless nights.

I send so much love and strength to them all, they are the only people able to save these children with no power. It's heartbreaking.

incorrect a child can be spoken too whilst they are school without a parent being present "

Ok and a child doesn't start school until 4 years of age. Which can also be pushed back a year until they are 5. If they aren't in any form of childcare, the parent can say no.

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By *ig1gaz1Man
over a year ago

bradford


"Cut/paste from someone who puts it better than me. Can’t believe some peoples attitudes.

“Ive been following the Arthur story and like everyone else I am horrified, angry and want justice. But please DO NOT blame child protection social workers for this little boy's tragic murder.

They are not the police, they do not have police powers of entry or arrest. They cannot just 'take a child' there are laws and solicitors and courts involved and many other people - it is NOT the social workers decision to remove, ultimately. It is a judges. They cannot force people to give them information, they cannot coerce or threaten people. They can only work with what they know and what they'know' has to be agreed with by others.

Child Protection is one of the hardest jobs in the world to do I do not care what anyone says. They have none of the power and all of the responsbility. People like Arthurs care givers are the reason a lot of us went into social work - we dedicate our lives to finding these kids and making them safe, and then assisting the police with the parents to make sure they face JUSTICE.

To remove a child takes hours and hours of debate, negotiation, risk assessment and planning by up to 10 different agencies and lawyers. IT IS NOT JUST A CASE OF TAKING ONE AWAY.

Please be kind to social workers in England and Wales especially whilst anger like this is high, they work damn hard 24/7 365 and its not fair.”"

Social workers can get an emergency order and enter a property if theres any concern that they may have even on whimsical evidence.

Lets make it perfectly clear here I hate that record we learn by our mistakes.

more like cover up go after the easy targets is my comment

We can blame the currant system for its failures and there many.

But even i can assure you I wouldnt want to see a private system thats slowly being pushed in.

There was many cases within this private borstal system (60-90s) that has and still is being covered up where it all happened

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I’d be the world’s worst Social Worker. I’d end up removing them anyway and getting my silly arse arrested

Plus, I wouldn’t be able to play nicely when dealing with the arsehole parents.

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By *ollycouple71Couple
over a year ago

manchester


"Who ever hurts kids deserves to die. "
this

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I’d be the world’s worst Social Worker. I’d end up removing them anyway and getting my silly arse arrested

Plus, I wouldn’t be able to play nicely when dealing with the arsehole parents."

I would be exactly the same!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Did you know a social worker can't speak to a child of talking age without the parents consent? Meaning that an abusive parent will say no and a social worker has to try and see the situation for what it truly is. With an manipulative abuser giving all the talk, hiding what they can, that social worker has to determine what is the truth. These visits are scheduled, meaning the abuser can coerce the child into feeling safe in that moment.

I can't even imagine doing this job, even if it is blatantly in their face a child is in danger, they aren't able to scoop them up in their arms and march out of the house with them. They have that painstaking moment leaving the house knowing that child needs help. They have to go back and do immense amounts of paperwork to get the ball rolling to even try and get the child out of the situation. All whilst knowing they have more children to see, more visits, more investigation, more paperwork, more torture, guilt and I can imagine many many sleepless nights.

I send so much love and strength to them all, they are the only people able to save these children with no power. It's heartbreaking."

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By *lossie 42Couple
over a year ago

WARRINGTON

Walk a mile in the shoes of any committed, passionate Social Worker before you make any of your narrow minded, misinformed comments.

No power. No autonomy.

It's parents/carers that kill their children, NOT social Workers.

This government has cut funding and resources for years!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Social workers .... damned if they do damned if they dont

Before fingers are pointed at individuals lets not forget that Social Work in general has been historically underfunded, much like child mental health services and a whole raft of other family/early years support services.

Combine the cuts with fewer staff, massive overload of cases, experienced staff leaving due to stress then it is no suprise we have these sickening cases.

When cases like these happen it is not simply an individuals fault, it is a failing of society to protect the most vulnerable.

Sadly the govmnt would rather spend billions on train tracks that no longer go where they said they would than give the funding to where it is needed more. Save 20mins on the train from Leeds to London or support children across the country? I do wonder what £50 billion invested in child services would bring?

I reckon the benefit to society would be more than shaving a few minutes of a train ride.

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By *ig1gaz1Man
over a year ago

bradford


"Walk a mile in the shoes of any committed, passionate Social Worker before you make any of your narrow minded, misinformed comments.

No power. No autonomy.

It's parents/carers that kill their children, NOT social Workers.

This government has cut funding and resources for years! "

Incorrect as if you did you would know full well.

if the grandparent walked into hospital or into there local doctors with a child with bruises with concerns.

They would be sent to the hospital with child and the doctors would inform social services and would be met at the hospital.

Then the social workers would be called and an order would be placed for non removal of the child from either the hospital or from the person.

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By *orksRockerMan
over a year ago

Bradford


"i would like to know if these so called social child workers who dont spot this stuff still have jobs

That just goes to show you know NOTHING about the abysmal state the social work service is in.

I knew that headline would fuel this type of narrow minded, finger pointing idiocy.

They system is utterly broken and has been for years, just like the NHS, police, ambulance, fire service......"

Spot on!!!!

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By *acavityMan
over a year ago

Redditch

Social workers can never win.

If they take the children into care, they get called 'baby snatchers'.

If they don't, they get blamed for the crimes of others.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West


"Too many variable factors but fundamentally the people who commit these heinous crimes are very good at manipulating people and playing the system.

They know when to move, they known when to present at different hospitals, all the right things to say and how to detract attention from their behaviours towards the child"

The fact that injuries to children (or other victims of abuse) can be covered up by moving from hospital to hospital is utterly ridiculous. The fact that there is not just ONE single NHS record for an individual, accessible at any NHS clinic, surgery, hospital or other facility, is obscene. I have care at three different NHS sites, all in different Trusts. None of them can see the records of the other and they rely on me, the patient, to explain what the other Trust has said/recommended. I am able to do that, but so many people are not, including children who rely on parents, guardians and carers to speak for them. This one change, to a single NHS record, would make child and victim protection significantly easier. I don't know why there isn't more clamour and appetite for it. I personally want it so that I can stop telling medics my life story when I attend....

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By *heVonMatterhornsCouple
over a year ago

Lincoln


"Too many variable factors but fundamentally the people who commit these heinous crimes are very good at manipulating people and playing the system.

They know when to move, they known when to present at different hospitals, all the right things to say and how to detract attention from their behaviours towards the child

The fact that injuries to children (or other victims of abuse) can be covered up by moving from hospital to hospital is utterly ridiculous. The fact that there is not just ONE single NHS record for an individual, accessible at any NHS clinic, surgery, hospital or other facility, is obscene. I have care at three different NHS sites, all in different Trusts. None of them can see the records of the other and they rely on me, the patient, to explain what the other Trust has said/recommended. I am able to do that, but so many people are not, including children who rely on parents, guardians and carers to speak for them. This one change, to a single NHS record, would make child and victim protection significantly easier. I don't know why there isn't more clamour and appetite for it. I personally want it so that I can stop telling medics my life story when I attend...."

I'm sorry, what?! Admittedly I'm a little out of the loop when it comes to the NHS but really, there isn't one combined system so every medic can see a person's record? Doesn't sound particularly "National" to me

LvM

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By *ora the explorerWoman
over a year ago

Paradise, Herts


"Too many variable factors but fundamentally the people who commit these heinous crimes are very good at manipulating people and playing the system.

They know when to move, they known when to present at different hospitals, all the right things to say and how to detract attention from their behaviours towards the child

The fact that injuries to children (or other victims of abuse) can be covered up by moving from hospital to hospital is utterly ridiculous. The fact that there is not just ONE single NHS record for an individual, accessible at any NHS clinic, surgery, hospital or other facility, is obscene. I have care at three different NHS sites, all in different Trusts. None of them can see the records of the other and they rely on me, the patient, to explain what the other Trust has said/recommended. I am able to do that, but so many people are not, including children who rely on parents, guardians and carers to speak for them. This one change, to a single NHS record, would make child and victim protection significantly easier. I don't know why there isn't more clamour and appetite for it. I personally want it so that I can stop telling medics my life story when I attend....

I'm sorry, what?! Admittedly I'm a little out of the loop when it comes to the NHS but really, there isn't one combined system so every medic can see a person's record? Doesn't sound particularly "National" to me

LvM"

No it’s combined within the NHS now.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West


"No school in this case, lockdown. Unsure if this pedantic post is because you’re pedantic or in support of the OPs stance "

The little girl from Bradford was way below school age also. School attendance is irrelevant in this case and we may assume she did not attend a day nursery or other childcare setting (who may have observed issues and could have reported).

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By *he MuffinmanMan
over a year ago

West Gloucestershire


"Cut/paste from someone who puts it better than me. Can’t believe some peoples attitudes.

“Ive been following the Arthur story and like everyone else I am horrified, angry and want justice. But please DO NOT blame child protection social workers for this little boy's tragic murder.

They are not the police, they do not have police powers of entry or arrest. They cannot just 'take a child' there are laws and solicitors and courts involved and many other people - it is NOT the social workers decision to remove, ultimately. It is a judges. They cannot force people to give them information, they cannot coerce or threaten people. They can only work with what they know and what they'know' has to be agreed with by others.

Child Protection is one of the hardest jobs in the world to do I do not care what anyone says. They have none of the power and all of the responsbility. People like Arthurs care givers are the reason a lot of us went into social work - we dedicate our lives to finding these kids and making them safe, and then assisting the police with the parents to make sure they face JUSTICE.

To remove a child takes hours and hours of debate, negotiation, risk assessment and planning by up to 10 different agencies and lawyers. IT IS NOT JUST A CASE OF TAKING ONE AWAY.

Please be kind to social workers in England and Wales especially whilst anger like this is high, they work damn hard 24/7 365 and its not fair.”"

Very well put…. Heart goes out to all involved in an unforgiving job and one I wouldn’t do

X

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West


"Too many variable factors but fundamentally the people who commit these heinous crimes are very good at manipulating people and playing the system.

They know when to move, they known when to present at different hospitals, all the right things to say and how to detract attention from their behaviours towards the child

The fact that injuries to children (or other victims of abuse) can be covered up by moving from hospital to hospital is utterly ridiculous. The fact that there is not just ONE single NHS record for an individual, accessible at any NHS clinic, surgery, hospital or other facility, is obscene. I have care at three different NHS sites, all in different Trusts. None of them can see the records of the other and they rely on me, the patient, to explain what the other Trust has said/recommended. I am able to do that, but so many people are not, including children who rely on parents, guardians and carers to speak for them. This one change, to a single NHS record, would make child and victim protection significantly easier. I don't know why there isn't more clamour and appetite for it. I personally want it so that I can stop telling medics my life story when I attend....

I'm sorry, what?! Admittedly I'm a little out of the loop when it comes to the NHS but really, there isn't one combined system so every medic can see a person's record? Doesn't sound particularly "National" to me

LvM

No it’s combined within the NHS now. "

What's combined? My health records are certainly not. Manchester, Salford, Bolton and on occasion, Lancashire. None of them "talk" to each other. My GP records cannot be seen by any of them, save blood tests or other tests processed in a hospital. Much of my records (and other people's) from yesteryear are on paper, in giant paper folders. The contents of this maybe pertinent to my appointment but not on the computer. Obviously I can recall, but for example, when my Dad was asked before a colonoscopy if he'd ever had surgery, he said no. The nurse was about to accept that answer but my brother (who'd had to argue to be allowed to remain) butted in and listed the various surgeries he'd had. These surgeries took place in different Trusts years ago. They were about to take the word of a man with dementia, FFS and my brother was only there after making a massive fuss. This was earlier this year, 2021. Ditto in 2020 when he was admitted to A&E in a different city, they had ZERO records about him.

The fact vaccine records from Wales, Scotland and NI cannot be seen on the NHS App also highlights how NOT national the health service is.

They need to sort this out for the health and safety of everyone.

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By *ora the explorerWoman
over a year ago

Paradise, Herts


"Too many variable factors but fundamentally the people who commit these heinous crimes are very good at manipulating people and playing the system.

They know when to move, they known when to present at different hospitals, all the right things to say and how to detract attention from their behaviours towards the child

The fact that injuries to children (or other victims of abuse) can be covered up by moving from hospital to hospital is utterly ridiculous. The fact that there is not just ONE single NHS record for an individual, accessible at any NHS clinic, surgery, hospital or other facility, is obscene. I have care at three different NHS sites, all in different Trusts. None of them can see the records of the other and they rely on me, the patient, to explain what the other Trust has said/recommended. I am able to do that, but so many people are not, including children who rely on parents, guardians and carers to speak for them. This one change, to a single NHS record, would make child and victim protection significantly easier. I don't know why there isn't more clamour and appetite for it. I personally want it so that I can stop telling medics my life story when I attend....

I'm sorry, what?! Admittedly I'm a little out of the loop when it comes to the NHS but really, there isn't one combined system so every medic can see a person's record? Doesn't sound particularly "National" to me

LvM

No it’s combined within the NHS now.

What's combined? My health records are certainly not. Manchester, Salford, Bolton and on occasion, Lancashire. None of them "talk" to each other. My GP records cannot be seen by any of them, save blood tests or other tests processed in a hospital. Much of my records (and other people's) from yesteryear are on paper, in giant paper folders. The contents of this maybe pertinent to my appointment but not on the computer. Obviously I can recall, but for example, when my Dad was asked before a colonoscopy if he'd ever had surgery, he said no. The nurse was about to accept that answer but my brother (who'd had to argue to be allowed to remain) butted in and listed the various surgeries he'd had. These surgeries took place in different Trusts years ago. They were about to take the word of a man with dementia, FFS and my brother was only there after making a massive fuss. This was earlier this year, 2021. Ditto in 2020 when he was admitted to A&E in a different city, they had ZERO records about him.

The fact vaccine records from Wales, Scotland and NI cannot be seen on the NHS App also highlights how NOT national the health service is.

They need to sort this out for the health and safety of everyone. "

I’m just going from my experience and what I was told by the school nurse. My daughter sees many many different people NHS and privately. Every single NHS consultant/doctor/department can see everything. I actually questioned it as I was surprised and thought it was great that they could and I didn’t have to keep going through everything hundreds of times.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Social workers .... damned if they do damned if they dont

Before fingers are pointed at individuals lets not forget that Social Work in general has been historically underfunded, much like child mental health services and a whole raft of other family/early years support services.

Combine the cuts with fewer staff, massive overload of cases, experienced staff leaving due to stress then it is no suprise we have these sickening cases.

When cases like these happen it is not simply an individuals fault, it is a failing of society to protect the most vulnerable.

Sadly the govmnt would rather spend billions on train tracks that no longer go where they said they would than give the funding to where it is needed more. Save 20mins on the train from Leeds to London or support children across the country? I do wonder what £50 billion invested in child services would bring?

I reckon the benefit to society would be more than shaving a few minutes of a train ride.

"

I couldn't say it any better honestly it really cool to see so many people educated on this matter.

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By *riskynriskyCouple
over a year ago

Essex.

A little side story my sister in law was supposed to be adopting a new born baby.

The baby was born on a Friday, the court hearing to remove the child was due a few days later.

This woman had every child taken into care but was awarded custody.

It turns out a report by the hospital stated that the mother had been very attentive whilst the baby was kept at the hospital.

Turns out the hospital thought the social worker was the mother, who had not bother to visit the baby once...

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West


"Too many variable factors but fundamentally the people who commit these heinous crimes are very good at manipulating people and playing the system.

They know when to move, they known when to present at different hospitals, all the right things to say and how to detract attention from their behaviours towards the child

The fact that injuries to children (or other victims of abuse) can be covered up by moving from hospital to hospital is utterly ridiculous. The fact that there is not just ONE single NHS record for an individual, accessible at any NHS clinic, surgery, hospital or other facility, is obscene. I have care at three different NHS sites, all in different Trusts. None of them can see the records of the other and they rely on me, the patient, to explain what the other Trust has said/recommended. I am able to do that, but so many people are not, including children who rely on parents, guardians and carers to speak for them. This one change, to a single NHS record, would make child and victim protection significantly easier. I don't know why there isn't more clamour and appetite for it. I personally want it so that I can stop telling medics my life story when I attend....

I'm sorry, what?! Admittedly I'm a little out of the loop when it comes to the NHS but really, there isn't one combined system so every medic can see a person's record? Doesn't sound particularly "National" to me

LvM

No it’s combined within the NHS now.

What's combined? My health records are certainly not. Manchester, Salford, Bolton and on occasion, Lancashire. None of them "talk" to each other. My GP records cannot be seen by any of them, save blood tests or other tests processed in a hospital. Much of my records (and other people's) from yesteryear are on paper, in giant paper folders. The contents of this maybe pertinent to my appointment but not on the computer. Obviously I can recall, but for example, when my Dad was asked before a colonoscopy if he'd ever had surgery, he said no. The nurse was about to accept that answer but my brother (who'd had to argue to be allowed to remain) butted in and listed the various surgeries he'd had. These surgeries took place in different Trusts years ago. They were about to take the word of a man with dementia, FFS and my brother was only there after making a massive fuss. This was earlier this year, 2021. Ditto in 2020 when he was admitted to A&E in a different city, they had ZERO records about him.

The fact vaccine records from Wales, Scotland and NI cannot be seen on the NHS App also highlights how NOT national the health service is.

They need to sort this out for the health and safety of everyone.

I’m just going from my experience and what I was told by the school nurse. My daughter sees many many different people NHS and privately. Every single NHS consultant/doctor/department can see everything. I actually questioned it as I was surprised and thought it was great that they could and I didn’t have to keep going through everything hundreds of times. "

This may be a) where you live and/or b) that hospitals are part of the same Trust. I can assure you things are NOT joined up round here. I shall be going to an appointment in Manchester on Friday and they will have absolutely no idea about anything that's happened beyond the gynaecological procedures done within the Manchester Trust. I will, yet again, repeat my medication list and all the rest. That info should be available at the touch of a button. Last time (Nov 2020), the surgeon wrote the notes with a fountain pen on yellow paper.

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By *ora the explorerWoman
over a year ago

Paradise, Herts


"Too many variable factors but fundamentally the people who commit these heinous crimes are very good at manipulating people and playing the system.

They know when to move, they known when to present at different hospitals, all the right things to say and how to detract attention from their behaviours towards the child

The fact that injuries to children (or other victims of abuse) can be covered up by moving from hospital to hospital is utterly ridiculous. The fact that there is not just ONE single NHS record for an individual, accessible at any NHS clinic, surgery, hospital or other facility, is obscene. I have care at three different NHS sites, all in different Trusts. None of them can see the records of the other and they rely on me, the patient, to explain what the other Trust has said/recommended. I am able to do that, but so many people are not, including children who rely on parents, guardians and carers to speak for them. This one change, to a single NHS record, would make child and victim protection significantly easier. I don't know why there isn't more clamour and appetite for it. I personally want it so that I can stop telling medics my life story when I attend....

I'm sorry, what?! Admittedly I'm a little out of the loop when it comes to the NHS but really, there isn't one combined system so every medic can see a person's record? Doesn't sound particularly "National" to me

LvM

No it’s combined within the NHS now.

What's combined? My health records are certainly not. Manchester, Salford, Bolton and on occasion, Lancashire. None of them "talk" to each other. My GP records cannot be seen by any of them, save blood tests or other tests processed in a hospital. Much of my records (and other people's) from yesteryear are on paper, in giant paper folders. The contents of this maybe pertinent to my appointment but not on the computer. Obviously I can recall, but for example, when my Dad was asked before a colonoscopy if he'd ever had surgery, he said no. The nurse was about to accept that answer but my brother (who'd had to argue to be allowed to remain) butted in and listed the various surgeries he'd had. These surgeries took place in different Trusts years ago. They were about to take the word of a man with dementia, FFS and my brother was only there after making a massive fuss. This was earlier this year, 2021. Ditto in 2020 when he was admitted to A&E in a different city, they had ZERO records about him.

The fact vaccine records from Wales, Scotland and NI cannot be seen on the NHS App also highlights how NOT national the health service is.

They need to sort this out for the health and safety of everyone.

I’m just going from my experience and what I was told by the school nurse. My daughter sees many many different people NHS and privately. Every single NHS consultant/doctor/department can see everything. I actually questioned it as I was surprised and thought it was great that they could and I didn’t have to keep going through everything hundreds of times.

This may be a) where you live and/or b) that hospitals are part of the same Trust. I can assure you things are NOT joined up round here. I shall be going to an appointment in Manchester on Friday and they will have absolutely no idea about anything that's happened beyond the gynaecological procedures done within the Manchester Trust. I will, yet again, repeat my medication list and all the rest. That info should be available at the touch of a button. Last time (Nov 2020), the surgeon wrote the notes with a fountain pen on yellow paper. "

That’s terrible. I must admit I just assumed it was the same throughout.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 15/12/21 20:34:37]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

I’m just going from my experience and what I was told by the school nurse. My daughter sees many many different people NHS and privately. Every single NHS consultant/doctor/department can see everything. I actually questioned it as I was surprised and thought it was great that they could and I didn’t have to keep going through everything hundreds of times. "

Mine is the same, whichever hospital or clinic (as long as it's NHS) they have or can get a copy of my records

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By *asmeenTV/TS
over a year ago

STOKE ON TRENT

Saw this on the news

Disgusting

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Too many variable factors but fundamentally the people who commit these heinous crimes are very good at manipulating people and playing the system.

They know when to move, they known when to present at different hospitals, all the right things to say and how to detract attention from their behaviours towards the child

The fact that injuries to children (or other victims of abuse) can be covered up by moving from hospital to hospital is utterly ridiculous. The fact that there is not just ONE single NHS record for an individual, accessible at any NHS clinic, surgery, hospital or other facility, is obscene. I have care at three different NHS sites, all in different Trusts. None of them can see the records of the other and they rely on me, the patient, to explain what the other Trust has said/recommended. I am able to do that, but so many people are not, including children who rely on parents, guardians and carers to speak for them. This one change, to a single NHS record, would make child and victim protection significantly easier. I don't know why there isn't more clamour and appetite for it. I personally want it so that I can stop telling medics my life story when I attend....

I'm sorry, what?! Admittedly I'm a little out of the loop when it comes to the NHS but really, there isn't one combined system so every medic can see a person's record? Doesn't sound particularly "National" to me

LvM

No it’s combined within the NHS now.

What's combined? My health records are certainly not. Manchester, Salford, Bolton and on occasion, Lancashire. None of them "talk" to each other. My GP records cannot be seen by any of them, save blood tests or other tests processed in a hospital. Much of my records (and other people's) from yesteryear are on paper, in giant paper folders. The contents of this maybe pertinent to my appointment but not on the computer. Obviously I can recall, but for example, when my Dad was asked before a colonoscopy if he'd ever had surgery, he said no. The nurse was about to accept that answer but my brother (who'd had to argue to be allowed to remain) butted in and listed the various surgeries he'd had. These surgeries took place in different Trusts years ago. They were about to take the word of a man with dementia, FFS and my brother was only there after making a massive fuss. This was earlier this year, 2021. Ditto in 2020 when he was admitted to A&E in a different city, they had ZERO records about him.

The fact vaccine records from Wales, Scotland and NI cannot be seen on the NHS App also highlights how NOT national the health service is.

They need to sort this out for the health and safety of everyone.

I’m just going from my experience and what I was told by the school nurse. My daughter sees many many different people NHS and privately. Every single NHS consultant/doctor/department can see everything. I actually questioned it as I was surprised and thought it was great that they could and I didn’t have to keep going through everything hundreds of times.

This may be a) where you live and/or b) that hospitals are part of the same Trust. I can assure you things are NOT joined up round here. I shall be going to an appointment in Manchester on Friday and they will have absolutely no idea about anything that's happened beyond the gynaecological procedures done within the Manchester Trust. I will, yet again, repeat my medication list and all the rest. That info should be available at the touch of a button. Last time (Nov 2020), the surgeon wrote the notes with a fountain pen on yellow paper.

That’s terrible. I must admit I just assumed it was the same throughout. "

I must admit, NHS records are a bit broken somewhere. I took my son to a&e couple years back, first time he was back in a hospital since birth.

They were 'concerned' as he was actually coming up with my maiden name as they give the mother's name at birth. Despite being registered under our married name, registered with doctors in our married name. They had no record of him, it showed he hadn't been in the system since birth. And then questioned my nationality due to me having a non UK origin surname (my maiden name). Was a bit strange.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

Re: the postcode lottery that it is NHS records:

"Transferring hospital records to electronic systems has generally been much slower and more difficult than in primary care, apart from clinical imaging, which has been largely electronic for several years. In 2019 only 10% of NHS trusts claimed to be fully digitised. Plans for a paperless NHS by 2020 are clearly not going to be realised. The NHS Long Term Plan requires all hospitals to move to digital records by 2023, so clinicians can access and interact with patient records and care plans wherever they are. 62% of trusts have plans to digitise all their patient records.

The GP record is separate from the national Care Record and contains far more data.

The Chief Clinical Officer says that the legal framework around data sharing is the main problem in integrating patient data because the Data Protection Act 1998 puts responsibilities on GPs to protect the confidentiality of patient data, but at the same time they have a "duty to share" when it is in the best interests of the patient. He says the quickest, easiest route to large scale record sharing is to put patients in the driving seat using smartphone technology. He quotes a YouGov poll which found that 85% of the population wanted any medical professional directly responsible for their treatment to have secure electronic access to key data from their GP record, such as long term conditions, medication history or allergies.

There are projects allowing access between hospitals & GP practices. The main Primary Care systems are EMIS Health, SystmOne, iSOFT, and INPS Vision. The NHS in Scotland widely used GPASS until 2012. From April 2014 practices are contractually required to promote and offer patients the opportunity to book appointments online, order repeat prescriptions online and provide online patient record access.[13]

The assistant coroner for inner north London has twice written to Jeremy Hunt warning that “future deaths could occur [if] further action is not taken to facilitate secondary care access to GP records”.[14]

Leeds was the first city to implement the NHS Digital programme GP Connect. This makes patient records available across care settings, including social care, general practice, community, mental health and hospitals."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"i would like to know if these so called social child workers who dont spot this stuff still have jobs

Don’t dare blame a social worker."

indeed. Anyone can create a perfect family life or faux life... behind closed doors can be very different.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If we brought in the death penalty or even better put them in a room full of mothers 15 mins should do it,I'm sure that would be a deterrent

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West


"If we brought in the death penalty or even better put them in a room full of mothers 15 mins should do it,I'm sure that would be a deterrent"

A room full of mothers? Do you realise the recent two cases in the news were of women (stepmothers) who have been convicted of a child's death? Mothers, unfortunately, are not all suitable to be mothers.

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By *heGateKeeperMan
over a year ago

Stratford

Didnt want to quote the long tweet but no in most instances records aren’t shared or accessible. Lots of places are working to develop integrated care records and some places like Manchester, Leeds and the South West are really setting pace with some of that work and doing an excellent job at showing the foundations of what a system could and should look like.

I’m amazed at how many people think there is one patient record. Within organisations you’ll find multiple different systems running, so to try and get one system running in any particular ‘patch’ is hard enough. Now think about trying to do that nationally, think about all the stakeholder and partner organisations that would need access and you start to see the issue.

There are designated NHS safeguarding professionals who work with social services services and do some amazing work but it’s far from perfect and gaps are exploited.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And while we have manipulators taking advantage of system shortages we will have children who are at real harm. Anyone who works in safegaurding or has a background in child services will have heard of 'disguised compliance' it is real and it I terrifying.

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