FabSwingers.com forum: Immigration

By *topthepress OP Man
over a year ago

MANCHESTER

Is it time to scrap immigration controls does the world not belong to everyone why can't we live where we want when we want

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By *ily Con CarneTV/TS
over a year ago

Cornwall

"Is it time to scrap immigration controls "

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By *ebjonnsonMan
over a year ago

Maldon

"Is it time to scrap immigration controls does the world not belong to everyone why can't we live where we want when we want"

All round to your house then?

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By *ily Con CarneTV/TS
over a year ago

Cornwall

"Is it time to scrap immigration controls does the world not belong to everyone why can't we live where we want when we want

All round to your house then? "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's certainly time to stop using people as pawns in a game of political power. Its also time to stop dehumanising people and spreading lies about them.

Sadly, I can't see either of those things changing. The way we think of other people hasn't changed through the whole of recorded history, I doubt this latest "crisis" will have an effect.

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By *hrista BellendWoman
over a year ago

surrounded by twinkly lights

Resources and space are the main reasons

The uk cannot feed the population now without importing food and look at the housing/homeless situation

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By *ily Con CarneTV/TS
over a year ago

Cornwall

"Resources and space are the main reasons

The uk cannot feed the population now without importing food and look at the housing/homeless situation

Yep, pretty much this ^ .... bet I get called a racist now

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No. We need some semblance of a controlled system.

But we need to stop blaming those coming through for all that is wrong with our country. They're not stealing jobs, homes, or resources from anyone else. Our Government is adept at scapegoating, and deep rooted societal and institutional racism allows it.

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By *topthepress OP Man
over a year ago

MANCHESTER

Come on lots of room here take away the major cities we have no one lives here and I don't accept that everyone will come here we were told that when Bulgaria and Romania joined the EU 250 thousand were going to come here 25 thousand arrived

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

Yes for sure! X

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By *lairekTV/TS
over a year ago

Manchester

If we really wanted to do something about it...

Crowd fund the Calais migrants, get them to move into a Rich n Famous place. I hear Monaco is quite nice, for example.

When it affects the rich, on their doorstep, just watch how something is done about it.

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By *topthepress OP Man
over a year ago

MANCHESTER

Compared to the migrants wanting to come here we are loaded

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

"Compared to the migrants wanting to come here we are loaded"

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

We need to make it safe for them to get here for sure! X

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By *topthepress OP Man
over a year ago

MANCHESTER

Think a lot of it is that we are scared of losing our lifestyle most of which is just greed I include myself like I have 3 TVs why I ask myself I don't watch TV much

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We need to make it safe for them to get here for sure! X"

They have just crossed an entire safe continent!

I have no problem with controlled immigration, but this free for all is ridiculous.

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By *lairekTV/TS
over a year ago

Manchester

I'd support people coming, but you need to know who they are.

COVID variants still pose a threat, and there are plenty of disgruntled people around the world.

Where is the balance between isolation and protection?

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By *topthepress OP Man
over a year ago

MANCHESTER

Free for all ? What is wrong with wanting a better standard of living for you and your family tell you what if I lived in Syria or Afghanistan I would do everything to get my family out

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By *asques and boxersCouple
over a year ago

Ashford and dept16

Surely the answer sits with providing better resources to deal with those persecuted at source?

As far as I can see we are not the first foreign country any have arrived at?

World funding of reasonable reception camps with every countries embassy represented for formal application and proper evidencing of status.

So each applicant can be vetted then they can absorbed by the world and recorded for the future.

In this world of terrorism and organised crime not sure you want no accountability or free for all.

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By *hunderace...Man
over a year ago

Dudley

No...we don't have the infrastructure to cope with what we've got now.

I lived in Western Australia for 10yrs and have seen this drama play out on an industrial scale.

There's one card these people are yet to play and it will happen...

International maritime law states if a boat is in trouble and sinking then its the responsibility of the closest vessel to answer the mayday call, pick up the survivors and take them to the nearest port.

Overcrowded boars will be boarded in France which secretly the French are only too happy about as they get to pass the buck on to us. We will increase our naval patrols to try to stop them but once in sight the migrants will scuttle their boats knowing they're guaranteed to be picked up and taken to a UK port.

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By *topthepress OP Man
over a year ago

MANCHESTER

Try walking the streets of Manchester lots of organised crime and terror not down to families coming from Syria you seen the fear in those childrens faces

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No...we don't have the infrastructure to cope with what we've got now.

I lived in Western Australia for 10yrs and have seen this drama play out on an industrial scale.

There's one card these people are yet to play and it will happen...

Which is why France won't conduct joint patrols off their beaches, because they would be taken back to France.

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By *topthepress OP Man
over a year ago

MANCHESTER

So you were allowed to live in Australia but others are not allowed here

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

"We need to make it safe for them to get here for sure! X

They have just crossed an entire safe continent!

I have no problem with controlled immigration, but this free for all is ridiculous."

That's not the point I'm making it needs to b safe for them to get here as they will still try no matter how many "safe" countries they have passed through! X

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Try walking the streets of Manchester lots of organised crime and terror not down to families coming from Syria you seen the fear in those childrens faces"

There are some genuine cases coming across, even some who can genuinely contribute to our society, but sadly many are not.

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

"Free for all ? What is wrong with wanting a better standard of living for you and your family tell you what if I lived in Syria or Afghanistan I would do everything to get my family out "

This! ^ x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We need to make it safe for them to get here for sure! X

They have just crossed an entire safe continent!

I have no problem with controlled immigration, but this free for all is ridiculous.

That's not the point I'm making it needs to b safe for them to get here as they will still try no matter how many "safe" countries they have passed through! X

Go and rent a proper boat then. You'll be a saint.

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By *hunderace...Man
over a year ago

Dudley

"So you were allowed to live in Australia but others are not allowed here"

It took me over 2yrs to get my perminent residents visa which I applied for here based on their points system. I'm a welder and bought skills to their growing economy and paid taxes...

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By *topthepress OP Man
over a year ago

MANCHESTER

Why can you not come here to improve your economic situation where would the NHS be without immigration

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

"We need to make it safe for them to get here for sure! X

They have just crossed an entire safe continent!

I have no problem with controlled immigration, but this free for all is ridiculous.

That's not the point I'm making it needs to b safe for them to get here as they will still try no matter how many "safe" countries they have passed through! X

Go and rent a proper boat then. You'll be a saint."

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By *hunderace...Man
over a year ago

Dudley

"Why can you not come here to improve your economic situation where would the NHS be without immigration"

Its not that simple is it?

I share your empathy but the NHS is bursting as it is.

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By *lairekTV/TS
over a year ago

Manchester

"Why can you not come here to improve your economic situation where would the NHS be without immigration"

The issue is about route and safety.

These people pay thousands to traffickers, and their current mode of transport are specially made one time use boats.

As long as there is a trafficking business, there will be deaths. Anyone who has done maritime sailing will know just how dangerous our seas are.

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By *trideMan
over a year ago

Plymouth

I don’t think that patriotism is quite as dead as the responses so far seem to indicate.

What is the name of the most popular piece of music played at the “Last Night Of The Proms”?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This thread can only go well!

What is a border? It's just an imaginary concept made up by one set of people who didn't like another set of people tens/hundreds/thousands of years ago. It's not a real thing, we are just extra pissy about ours because it has a defined natural moat around the outside.

People move around the world. Some parts of the world are shitter than others and you wouldn't not want to live there yourself, it's only an accident of birth where you end up being. Some places are made shit by us through feeling wars with arms deals and shady international policies, so how can we complain when some people from there leave.

As for why some (some, not all, many countries take far more than we even have nightmares about, like Germany, Greece and so on) come here, why not? Migrants go to every country. But if you can speak a bit of English, and maybe have a relative here somewhere, would you go to Bulgaria? Denmark?

I'm not going to reply to any single thread because it will just start an argument, but immigration is a natural thing, people leave the UK and go to Spain and ruin their costal villages for the locals too and they have the same argument. If there's one person in here who's lost a job opportunity to a migrant who is here illegally, I will personally take them to Clintons and get the biggest commiserations card I can find and written in "So sorry you're so utterly inept that you can't even be picked last to do the worst jobs in the country"

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By *ebjonnsonMan
over a year ago

Maldon

"Why can you not come here to improve your economic situation where would the NHS be without immigration"

That’s exactly what plenty of people do. Legally though

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why can you not come here to improve your economic situation where would the NHS be without immigration

That’s exactly what plenty of people do. Legally though "

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

"This thread can only go well!

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By *hunderace...Man
over a year ago

Dudley

"This thread can only go well!

I hope you've got the money and room to back those morals buddy

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We need to make it safe for them to get here for sure! X

They have just crossed an entire safe continent!

I have no problem with controlled immigration, but this free for all is ridiculous.

That's not the point I'm making it needs to b safe for them to get here as they will still try no matter how many "safe" countries they have passed through! X

Go and rent a proper boat then. You'll be a saint.

You're going to wear that emoji out..

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

"We need to make it safe for them to get here for sure! X

They have just crossed an entire safe continent!

I have no problem with controlled immigration, but this free for all is ridiculous.

That's not the point I'm making it needs to b safe for them to get here as they will still try no matter how many "safe" countries they have passed through! X

Go and rent a proper boat then. You'll be a saint.

You're going to wear that emoji out..

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By *uenevereWoman
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

"We need to make it safe for them to get here for sure! X"

This is the key.

We cannot prevent people wanting to come, we can make the process safe.

This will be controversial but...

There's a huge shortage in certain sectors. Why not ship them over, place them somewhere secure and assess them as a matter of urgency . If accepted, they are provided with a job in one of the struggling sectors, hospitality for example.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We need to make it safe for them to get here for sure! X

This is the key.

We cannot prevent people wanting to come, we can make the process safe.

This will be controversial but...

Do you have any free secure rooms, and spare assessment teams in your cupboard? What will you do with the ones that are not accepted?

People talk about this human tragedy like it has easy and obvious solutions. It really doesn't. It would be great if we had the resources to accommodate and care for the genuine, deserving cases. Especially the families with children. Many of them, judging by those who have made it, do have skills we can use as a nation. Some of them are highly skilled and have a lot to give, but we still need the means to get them settled. Are they a higher priority then the recently publicised UK families living in appalling conditions in social housing?Well they certainly can't put immigrants/refugees in places like that, can they?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We still need SOME control like background checks but in general I completely agree.

Also people who say wE dOnT hAvE tHe MoNeY are the same people who defend billionaires exploiting the labour of their employees

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We still need SOME control like background checks but in general I completely agree.

Also people who say wE dOnT hAvE tHe MoNeY are the same people who defend billionaires exploiting the labour of their employees"

I certainly agree that we waste money on far less worthy causes, but we simply do not have the resources. It's not just money, it's suitable accommodation, medical and welfare support, feeding, vetting. That takes estate and suitably qualified people. Some of it could be done by volunteers but specialists would still be needed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We still need SOME control like background checks but in general I completely agree.

Also people who say wE dOnT hAvE tHe MoNeY are the same people who defend billionaires exploiting the labour of their employees

I mean this as a polite genuine question, but do you have any sources of how we don't have enough accomodation?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We still need SOME control like background checks but in general I completely agree.

Also people who say wE dOnT hAvE tHe MoNeY are the same people who defend billionaires exploiting the labour of their employees

I mean this as a polite genuine question, but do you have any sources of how we don't have enough accomodation?"

Sources? No, but bearing in mind the number of people in the UK already living in squallor, would not all the available and suitable accommodation already be in use? I know that immigrants/refugees are already being variously accommodated in hotels, old army bases (which they have smashed up and burned). Do you have sources of suitable accommodation and the infrastructure to look after them if we just throw the doors open and accept all comers?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We still need SOME control like background checks but in general I completely agree.

Also people who say wE dOnT hAvE tHe MoNeY are the same people who defend billionaires exploiting the labour of their employees

I mean this as a polite genuine question, but do you have any sources of how we don't have enough accomodation?

There's tons of empty houses and flats that NO ONE (UK or immagrents) are using because of housing owners/landlords etc. I won't get into that because who has the time lmao but people act as if there is no empty places when our government refuses to house even our own, and they use that as an excuse to refuse immagrents. Also I never said to throw open all doors and accept everyone, stop strawmanning.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We still need SOME control like background checks but in general I completely agree.

Also people who say wE dOnT hAvE tHe MoNeY are the same people who defend billionaires exploiting the labour of their employees

I mean this as a polite genuine question, but do you have any sources of how we don't have enough accomodation?

Find me someone seeking asylum who will smash up and burn the accommodation that’s just been given them for free. You’re just repeating tosh.

If there’s an accommodation issue then maybe assessing claims in less than 6 months might be the problem such that they are returned or become member of society speedily and not kept in limbo.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Find me someone seeking asylum who will smash up and burn the accommodation that’s just been given them for free. You’re just repeating tosh.

If there’s an accommodation issue then maybe assessing claims in less than 6 months might be the problem such that they are returned or become member of society speedily and not kept in limbo.

THIS!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So you were allowed to live in Australia but others are not allowed here

It took me over 2yrs to get my perminent residents visa which I applied for here based on their points system. I'm a welder and bought skills to their growing economy and paid taxes... "

So you were born in a country which has given you the opportunity to acquire such skills in the first place.

Do you not see the elephant in the room?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We need to make it safe for them to get here for sure! X

This is the key.

We cannot prevent people wanting to come, we can make the process safe.

This will be controversial but...

Do you have any free secure rooms, and spare assessment teams in your cupboard? What will you do with the ones that are not accepted?

Actually, this is exactly where they get put. They get no say where they're placed and have to accept what they're offered which invariably includes the accommodation that everyone ride has turned down.

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By *amelhunterMan
over a year ago

newcastle

"Resources and space are the main reasons

The uk cannot feed the population now without importing food and look at the housing/homeless situation

Yep, pretty much this ^ .... bet I get called a racist now

the uk has imported food for century's. and the housing/homeless situation is a by product of tory policy/right to buy scheme.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We need to make it safe for them to get here for sure! X

They have just crossed an entire safe continent!

I have no problem with controlled immigration, but this free for all is ridiculous."

2/3 are the victims of violent assault whilst in Europe. It may be a safe and welcoming continent when you're an affluent tourist (and simply being able to afford to travel for leisure puts you in this category whatever you feel about your personal wealth) but it isn't a safe welcoming place when you have zero social standing and no money.

It is this kind of attitude that explains why so many don't understand the real issues. Everyone who talks of these people crossing a "safe" continent or leaving a "safe" France to come and rob our benifit system not only had no idea of the real facts about immigration but is also so utterly self absorbed they're incapable off imagining any kind of life but their own.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We need to make it safe for them to get here for sure! X

This is the key.

We cannot prevent people wanting to come, we can make the process safe.

This will be controversial but...

Do you have any free secure rooms, and spare assessment teams in your cupboard? What will you do with the ones that are not accepted?

Mr"

This whole characterising migrants as ungrateful really is the worst take. It’s just thinly veiled maligning of their qualities as human beings. Some people really have been fooled into thinking they “come over ‘ere” and get given a gold toilet and a monthly stipend that’s been taken out of the pockets of our own hard working dole queue victims. Appalling that they have such poor critical thinking

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By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

"Is it time to scrap immigration controls

No"

Correct

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By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

Because you can't walk everywhere.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Resources and space are the main reasons

The uk cannot feed the population now without importing food and look at the housing/homeless situation

Yep, pretty much this ^ .... bet I get called a racist now

the uk has imported food for century's. and the housing/homeless situation is a by product of tory policy/right to buy scheme.

Also space is a nonsense argument, we have negative net immigration in this country.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Because you can't walk everywhere. "

Why not?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Perhaps when the fuel situation becomes an issue again and hospitals are short staffed the people on this sceptered isle will realise that the global economy is powered by the movement of labour.

But most people don’t see the positive side of scaled immigration in so far as most people who attempt to get in the uk are decent upstanding folks fleeing from some kind of trauma. They see the UK as a safe haven in which they can live a peaceful and productive life.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We still need SOME control like background checks but in general I completely agree.

Also people who say wE dOnT hAvE tHe MoNeY are the same people who defend billionaires exploiting the labour of their employees

I mean this as a polite genuine question, but do you have any sources of how we don't have enough accomodation?

That's part of my point though. If the government can't/won't accommodate the existing population, how can they accommodate more?

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By *hunderace...Man
over a year ago

Dudley

"So you were allowed to live in Australia but others are not allowed here

It took me over 2yrs to get my perminent residents visa which I applied for here based on their points system. I'm a welder and bought skills to their growing economy and paid taxes...

So you were born in a country which has given you the opportunity to acquire such skills in the first place.

Do you not see the elephant in the room?"

No buddy I don't...I worked my fucking arse off here to learn a trade in an inviroment where all industry was collapsing around me as unlike today in the 80's things were so bleak there was riots in the streets.

I beat over 70 applicants countrywide to get an apprenticeship 2 weeks after beating a stage 4 cancer when the government was closing the very industries that built this country.

I worked in shit shortening my life in to get my qualifications and even today work hours you would turn your nose up at... 20hr shift tonight.

Don't you tell me this country gave me anything because I earned everything I've ever achieved through diversity and hard fucking work.

I think the elephant in the room is your total ignorance

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

I'm glad my Great Grandfather managed to get to the UK as an economic migrant. He arrived in 1882, I'm not entirely clear whether legally or otherwise. The family legend says he was travelling to the USA from the Netherlands and got offloaded when the boat stopped in Liverpool, because he was sick. He married a local woman who was a nurse in the hospital and therefore stayed. The evidence doesn't support that at all though - from what I can tell, he arrived on the East coast and quite deliberately went to Liverpool. He didn't marry until 20yrs after arriving, nearly!

He arrived in the midst of an economic crisis in the area of the Netherlands he was from and was from a very poor Jewish family of cattle slaughterers and butchers. The first census in Liverpool showed him living in a horribly over crowded terraced house near Bootle docks. He was working as a commission agent, which apparently is a euphemism for someone who sold lottery tickets or other betting tickets. Most forms of gambling were illegal at the time, so he was working in a shady area, perhaps?

Fast forward twenty odd years and he's married, living in one of the poshest bits of Liverpool (a gated community) and by the time he died in 1946, he left a Will that would make your eyes water. Yes, inheritance tax was paid, in spades.

He arrived here, aged 18, bugger all to his name, living in a hovel and working illegally. He paid MORE than his fair share of taxes and contributed a fuck-ton to the local economy, once he'd found his feet.

Had he remained in the Netherlands, where his family remained, what would have happened? Well, what happened to Jews in 1939-1945? My Great Grandfather survived the war. His 12 siblings (mostly younger) and assorted family members did not (Sobibor and Dachau, mainly).

So, here I am. The descendant of perhaps a dodgy foreign immigrant, who nominally practiced a different religion. I'm glad he took the risk, to improve his lot away from the slaughterhouse industry where his family were barely able to survive *shrug* Go on, send me back

I'm all for giving people a chance, a leg up. Making working age people sit and wait for years and years for immigration claims to be dealt with is ridiculous. During that time, they CANNOT work. Many are skilled people, well qualified in their trades and skill areas. Let's make use of those skills, FFS!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Perhaps when the fuel situation becomes an issue again and hospitals are short staffed the people on this sceptered isle will realise that the global economy is powered by the movement of labour.

And a sizeable number of those attempting to get into the uk come from countries ravaged by wars instigated and prosecuted by countries like the uk.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That's part of my point though. If the government can't/won't accommodate the existing population, how can they accommodate more?"

I get your point and would ultimately agree, but I think because of that, the conversation needs to be "Why aren't the government housing people" as opposed to people (not saying you) saying "we have no housing! Those immagrents keep stealing it! We should help our own"" to thinly-disguise their racsim. We can help our own if/when the Government decide to stop being pricks

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm glad my Great Grandfather managed to get to the UK as an economic migrant. He arrived in 1882, I'm not entirely clear whether legally or otherwise. The family legend says he was travelling to the USA from the Netherlands and got offloaded when the boat stopped in Liverpool, because he was sick. He married a local woman who was a nurse in the hospital and therefore stayed. The evidence doesn't support that at all though - from what I can tell, he arrived on the East coast and quite deliberately went to Liverpool. He didn't marry until 20yrs after arriving, nearly!

Best response I have seen on fab. You should take up politics

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Don't you tell me this country gave me anything because I earned everything I've ever achieved through diversity and hard fucking work.

I think the elephant in the room is your total ignorance

"I had to work hard to get where I am, so no one else should have it easy/easier!" is such a shitty mindset to have

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That's part of my point though. If the government can't/won't accommodate the existing population, how can they accommodate more?

I would happily trade some hard working & contributing immigrants for some of our home grown welfare scroungers, but that's not an option either.

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By *hisisntpofMan
over a year ago

bristol

We cant cope now ,why go the extra dangerous mile to come here and not stop in europe ,because were too soft,we cant even look after our own ,says it all really

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By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

"Because you can't walk everywhere.

Why not?"

There are oceans and stuff

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That's part of my point though. If the government can't/won't accommodate the existing population, how can they accommodate more?

Stealing what exactly?

There are sufficient resources in this country to house, feed educate and provide health care to the populous. No need for theft just equality.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"Because you can't walk everywhere.

Why not?

There are oceans and stuff

I'd have had a fucking effort walking too

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Stealing what exactly?

There are sufficient resources in this country to house, feed educate and provide health care to the populous. No need for theft just equality."

Read my point again friend, I'm not saying anyone is stealing, I was quoting the type of people who are very anti-immagration. I agree with you 100%

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Because you can't walk everywhere.

Why not?

There are oceans and stuff

Jesus on a bike..........

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Stealing what exactly?

There are sufficient resources in this country to house, feed educate and provide health care to the populous. No need for theft just equality.

Read my point again friend, I'm not saying anyone is stealing, I was quoting the type of people who are very anti-immagration. I agree with you 100%"

Apologies

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So you were allowed to live in Australia but others are not allowed here

It took me over 2yrs to get my perminent residents visa which I applied for here based on their points system. I'm a welder and bought skills to their growing economy and paid taxes...

So you were born in a country which has given you the opportunity to acquire such skills in the first place.

Do you not see the elephant in the room?

I beat over 70 applicants countrywide to get an apprenticeship 2 weeks after beating a stage 4 cancer when the government was closing the very industries that built this country.

I worked in shit shortening my life in to get my qualifications and even today work hours you would turn your nose up at... 20hr shift tonight.

Don't you tell me this country gave me anything because I earned everything I've ever achieved through diversity and hard fucking work.

I think the elephant in the room is your total ignorance

The very fact you had the OPPORTUNITY to learn and work is the ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM.

Imagine being born in a country with absolutely fucking nothing going for it.

No schools, no work, no housing, no NHS.

You were born to opportunity, majority of the people living on this planet are not!

So stop acting like you deserve it more than them.

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport

We currently have negative immigration, the population has been shrinking as thousands upon thousands turn their backs on Britainq. We are 100,000 people short on care workers. There are far too few truck drivers. Crops are rotting in the fields because there is nobody to pick them.

Refugees are only a burden on state care because we deliberately make them into a burden, by not letting them work. They are not unskilled people, many were professionals in their own countries before westerners dropped bombs on their cities or otherwise disrupted their (what was often) modern style of living.

If we have got job vacancies that are impossible to get workers to fill, then interview refugees, find what skills they have, put them into jobs, let them earn money and contribute to uk society.

England needs workers. Refugees need work and safety. This is not a hard equation.

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By *drianukMan
over a year ago

Spain, Lancs

No. We've built a decent society. We have built a welfare state so that no-one starves.

We have a housing arrangement so that none/very few are homeless.

Everyone gets an education. Everyone gets health treatment.

Most of us have jobs and a reasonable standard of living.

You can't keep that society going if 6b people can come here

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"We currently have negative immigration, the population has been shrinking as thousands upon thousands turn their backs on Britainq. We are 100,000 people short on care workers. There are far too few truck drivers. Crops are rotting in the fields because there is nobody to pick them.

If we have got job vacancies that are impossible to get workers to fill, then interview refugees, find what skills they have, put them into jobs, let them earn money and contribute to uk society.

England needs workers. Refugees need work and safety. This is not a hard equation."

^^^Polly for PM

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No. We've built a decent society. We have built a welfare state so that no-one starves.

We have a housing arrangement so that none/very few are homeless.

Everyone gets an education. Everyone gets health treatment.

Most of us have jobs and a reasonable standard of living.

You can't keep that society going if 6b people can come here"

We have minimum 250,000 homeless people, and that number has increased 16.2-8% since 2019 https://homeless.org.uk/connect/blogs/2021/sep/13/stats-summary-mhclg%E2%80%99s-latest-homelessness-statistics-for-2020-2021 (I have other resources as well if anyone wants to call bullshit, I'm very petty)

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By *drianukMan
over a year ago

Spain, Lancs

"No. We've built a decent society. We have built a welfare state so that no-one starves.

We have a housing arrangement so that none/very few are homeless.

Everyone gets an education. Everyone gets health treatment.

Most of us have jobs and a reasonable standard of living.

You can't keep that society going if 6b people can come here

And how would opening the borders to 6b people improve the situation?

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By *hunderace...Man
over a year ago

Dudley

Don't you tell me this country gave me anything because I earned everything I've ever achieved through diversity and hard fucking work.

I think the elephant in the room is your total ignorance

"I had to work hard to get where I am, so no one else should have it easy/easier!" is such a shitty mindset to have"

You misunderstand, I was simply responding to being told I was somehow gifted my skills.

The answer is not to throw open the borders, just how many do you think would then come... 100, 100,000 or the entire 3rd world?

I'm as sympathetic as everyone here but there's a dose of reality that goes along with it, our health system alone was bursting even pre covid. Whilst your waving in everyone but you've a loved one who's desperately awaiting life determining tests stuck on an ever increasing waiting list I wonder if the same sentiment will be there...

The only answer is for European governments or indeed all world leaders to make there countries more self sustainable so our country can still support you and I.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If we have got job vacancies that are impossible to get workers to fill, then interview refugees, find what skills they have, put them into jobs, let them earn money and contribute to uk society.

England needs workers. Refugees need work and safety. This is not a hard equation."

Immigrants work fucking hard, and benefit the economy. All economies rely on growth, fact, that’s capitalism for you. Growth requires productivity and that needs people. Our main growth is the ever expanding heap of pensioners who refuse to die and take up ever greater costs in care needs. This isn’t hyperbole, it’s happening. Immigrants fill the gap for our shrinking workforce, keeping our stock market and pension pots healthy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This. So many people who are now whinging about immigrants only have to look back a few generations to find immigrants in their own family trees. The rampant Welsh nationalism here in South Wales makes me laugh. When the industrial revolution started here and the area became the coal and steel capital of the world the population exploded with labour pouring in from all over Europe. Those passionate "Welsh" have a great deal of Spanish, Italian, Irish, Cornish in their not so distant past.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And how would opening the borders to 6b people improve the situation?"

Nobody aside from that other guy said 6 billion people, and he just pulled that number out his arse. You're arguing against something which isn't going to happen/no one wants to happen

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By *drianukMan
over a year ago

Spain, Lancs

And how would opening the borders to 6b people improve the situation?

Nobody aside from that other guy said 6 billion people, and he just pulled that number out his arse. You're arguing against something which isn't going to happen/no one wants to happen"

The OP asked if we should just scrap border controls on the basis that 'the world belong to everyone'

That's why

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You misunderstand, I was simply responding to being told I was somehow gifted my skills.

The answer is not to throw open the borders, just how many do you think would then come... 100, 100,000 or the entire 3rd world?

The only answer is for European governments or indeed all world leaders to make there countries more self sustainable so our country can still support you and I. "

Apologies for the miss-understanding, but your comment about "the entire 3rd world" is what I'm arguing against. People keep saying "If we have less control, EVERYONE will come!" with 0 data or evidence aside from anecdotal to back that up. I agree with the fact that most if not all world leaders should make their respective economies greater, but I wish people would stop being scared of this immegration boogeyman and making numbers up

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If we have got job vacancies that are impossible to get workers to fill, then interview refugees, find what skills they have, put them into jobs, let them earn money and contribute to uk society.

England needs workers. Refugees need work and safety. This is not a hard equation.

^^^Polly for PM

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The OP asked if we should just scrap border controls on the basis that 'the world belong to everyone'

That's why"

...again, who says 6 billion people are coming? Do you truly think that if we hypothetically said "Everyone can come, free of charge, no requirements!" (which isn't what I'm arguing for of course) that 6 billion people would come?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And how would opening the borders to 6b people improve the situation?

Nobody aside from that other guy said 6 billion people, and he just pulled that number out his arse. You're arguing against something which isn't going to happen/no one wants to happen

The OP asked if we should just scrap border controls on the basis that 'the world belong to everyone'

That's why"
honestly if it’s so shit here with everything bursting at the seams why do people want to come? As if the entire world wants to be a Brit. Nonsense equivocation

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No. We've built a decent society. We have built a welfare state so that no-one starves.

We have a housing arrangement so that none/very few are homeless.

Everyone gets an education. Everyone gets health treatment.

Most of us have jobs and a reasonable standard of living.

You can't keep that society going if 6b people can come here"

Why use extreme examples?

The immigration system is broken and needs a complete overhaul to make it fair and equitable to all who wish to settle in this country. No one is advocating unrestricted access to the Uk but a system (with support from other countries) that looks at individual cases and reacts accordingly.

For those trying to cross the channel in little more than a Lidl lilo we need to ensure their safety and look at what circumstances caused them to act in such desperation.

We have just had the period of remberance in which we reflect on the sacrifice our service men and women made to ensure our way of life which is based on tolerance and understanding. That is the uk way.

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By *drianukMan
over a year ago

Spain, Lancs

The OP asked if we should just scrap border controls on the basis that 'the world belong to everyone'

That's why

That was the question that was asked.

Are you saying we should have open borders? How many do you think would come if we told the world we were open to all?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Don't you tell me this country gave me anything because I earned everything I've ever achieved through diversity and hard fucking work.

I think the elephant in the room is your total ignorance

"I had to work hard to get where I am, so no one else should have it easy/easier!" is such a shitty mindset to have

You misunderstand, I was simply responding to being told I was somehow gifted my skills.

The answer is not to throw open the borders, just how many do you think would then come... 100, 100,000 or the entire 3rd world?

The only answer is for European governments or indeed all world leaders to make there countries more self sustainable so our country can still support you and I. "

Ignorance is bliss.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The OP asked if we should just scrap border controls on the basis that 'the world belong to everyone'

That's why

That was the question that was asked.

Are you saying we should have open borders? How many do you think would come if we told the world we were open to all?"

The question was not ‘will everyone in the world leave their existence behind just to be a Brit at the slightest sniff of it being easy to come over here’ (and steal our…etc. )

It was should people be able to safely go where they want to.

Assuming everyone wants to live here is a ridiculous thought

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That was the question that was asked.

Are you saying we should have open borders? How many do you think would come if we told the world we were open to all?"

No it wasn't, one guy said 6 billion which was stupid and not relevant in the slightest because again, NO ONE is asking for 6 billion people to come here.

I think that the immegration policy needs a complete redo to allow people who wish to move here a fair chance to do so. Not "let's let everyone in!", but immagrents are human too and don't deserve a shit life because they were born in a violent country. No idea the number, I don't like pulling numbers out of my arse unlike some people/

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By *drianukMan
over a year ago

Spain, Lancs

The OP asked if we should just scrap border controls on the basis that 'the world belong to everyone'

That's why

That was the question that was asked.

Are you saying we should have open borders? How many do you think would come if we told the world we were open to all?

The question was not ‘will everyone in the world leave their existence behind just to be a Brit at the slightest sniff of it being easy to come over here’ (and steal our…etc. )

It was should people be able to safely go where they want to.

Assuming everyone wants to live here is a ridiculous thought"

But should they all be able to come here if they want to do?

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By *ani25Man
over a year ago

Birmingham

xxx

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By *drianukMan
over a year ago

Spain, Lancs

That was the question that was asked.

Are you saying we should have open borders? How many do you think would come if we told the world we were open to all?

No it wasn't, one guy said 6 billion which was stupid and not relevant in the slightest because again, NO ONE is asking for 6 billion people to come here.

This was the phrase the OP used:

'Is it time to scrap immigration controls does the world not belong to everyone why can't we live where we want when we want'

There are 6b people in the world. How many do you think would/should come here?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The OP asked if we should just scrap border controls on the basis that 'the world belong to everyone'

That's why

That was the question that was asked.

Are you saying we should have open borders? How many do you think would come if we told the world we were open to all?

The question was not ‘will everyone in the world leave their existence behind just to be a Brit at the slightest sniff of it being easy to come over here’ (and steal our…etc. )

It was should people be able to safely go where they want to.

Assuming everyone wants to live here is a ridiculous thought

But should they all be able to come here if they want to do?"

YES. They should absolutely be able to come, and be assessed in a timely manner, and be allowed to stay if the circumstances are deemed acceptable. Hoping people die in boats because all other forms of getting here are cunningly made illegal in order to put people off coming and applying is shocking. Let them come, assess them in two weeks not 9 months, let them stay or send them back, but do it HUMANELY and SWIFTLY. If we had an immigration system that worked, we wouldn’t have people absconding because they’ve been locked in a hotel or army base for half a year

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That was the question that was asked.

Are you saying we should have open borders? How many do you think would come if we told the world we were open to all?

No it wasn't, one guy said 6 billion which was stupid and not relevant in the slightest because again, NO ONE is asking for 6 billion people to come here.

This was the phrase the OP used:

'Is it time to scrap immigration controls does the world not belong to everyone why can't we live where we want when we want'

There are 6b people in the world. How many do you think would/should come here?

There's almost 8b people in the world.

The question is why do people coming over here and not affecting your life in the slightest bothers you so much?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This was the phrase the OP used:

'Is it time to scrap immigration controls does the world not belong to everyone why can't we live where we want when we want'

There are 6b people in the world. How many do you think would/should come here?

First of all there's 7.5 plus billion, and like I said, I think that people who want to come here for work/safety/or fuck it just because they want to, should have the oppertunity to just like you or I would should we wish to move to another country. Again I have no idea the number of people who WOULD come here, especially considering the UK public's reputation of treating foreigners, I don't like just making up numbers

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By *hunderace...Man
over a year ago

Dudley

Don't you tell me this country gave me anything because I earned everything I've ever achieved through diversity and hard fucking work.

I think the elephant in the room is your total ignorance

"I had to work hard to get where I am, so no one else should have it easy/easier!" is such a shitty mindset to have

You misunderstand, I was simply responding to being told I was somehow gifted my skills.

The answer is not to throw open the borders, just how many do you think would then come... 100, 100,000 or the entire 3rd world?

The only answer is for European governments or indeed all world leaders to make there countries more self sustainable so our country can still support you and I.

Ignorance is bliss."

You said it...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The OP asked if we should just scrap border controls on the basis that 'the world belong to everyone'

That's why

That was the question that was asked.

Are you saying we should have open borders? How many do you think would come if we told the world we were open to all?

The question was not ‘will everyone in the world leave their existence behind just to be a Brit at the slightest sniff of it being easy to come over here’ (and steal our…etc. )

It was should people be able to safely go where they want to.

Assuming everyone wants to live here is a ridiculous thought

But should they all be able to come here if they want to do?"

No no no ......( sound like Margaret Hilda!) you are getting illegal immigration mixed up with economic migration.

Of the former there are relatively few but the press would have you believe that there are tens of thousands of people crossing the channel every hour of every day. That’s just not the case.

We have just spent nigh on 50 years welcoming economic migrants from the EU.

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By *uenevereWoman
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

Here Here!

The demonisation of immigrants really annoys me.

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By *drianukMan
over a year ago

Spain, Lancs

The OP asked if we should just scrap border controls on the basis that 'the world belong to everyone'

That's why

That was the question that was asked.

Are you saying we should have open borders? How many do you think would come if we told the world we were open to all?

The question was not ‘will everyone in the world leave their existence behind just to be a Brit at the slightest sniff of it being easy to come over here’ (and steal our…etc. )

It was should people be able to safely go where they want to.

Assuming everyone wants to live here is a ridiculous thought

But should they all be able to come here if they want to do?

Do you think you can have a welfare state and unlimited immigration?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No. We need some semblance of a controlled system.

This.

For those who really want to see the true side of immigration and what actually happens to asylum seekers, spend 15 minutes researching denied asylum and destitution within the uk.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Don't you tell me this country gave me anything because I earned everything I've ever achieved through diversity and hard fucking work.

I think the elephant in the room is your total ignorance

"I had to work hard to get where I am, so no one else should have it easy/easier!" is such a shitty mindset to have

You misunderstand, I was simply responding to being told I was somehow gifted my skills.

The answer is not to throw open the borders, just how many do you think would then come... 100, 100,000 or the entire 3rd world?

The only answer is for European governments or indeed all world leaders to make there countries more self sustainable so our country can still support you and I.

Ignorance is bliss.

You said it...

And you still don't understand your Privilege.

That's what happens when you don't earn it but are given it, making you oblivious of how lucky you are compared to majority of the world.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The OP asked if we should just scrap border controls on the basis that 'the world belong to everyone'

That's why

That was the question that was asked.

Are you saying we should have open borders? How many do you think would come if we told the world we were open to all?

The question was not ‘will everyone in the world leave their existence behind just to be a Brit at the slightest sniff of it being easy to come over here’ (and steal our…etc. )

It was should people be able to safely go where they want to.

Assuming everyone wants to live here is a ridiculous thought

But should they all be able to come here if they want to do?

Do you think you can have a welfare state and unlimited immigration?"

Jesus mate, it’s unlimited refills ok soft drinks at Pizza Hut, how may people have drowned through chucking uncontrolled Fanta.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Jesus mate, it’s unlimited refills ok soft drinks at Pizza Hut, how may people have drowned through chucking uncontrolled Fanta.

Hilarious and accurate, made me lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Jesus mate, it’s unlimited refills ok soft drinks at Pizza Hut, how may people have drowned through chucking uncontrolled Fanta.

Hilarious and accurate, made me lol"

This guy thinks if we let 1 in the whole world is coming too. Allowing people to come isn’t the same as allowing them to stay. Having people die just so they can ask is an outrage. It’s that simple

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By *drianukMan
over a year ago

Spain, Lancs

How do you have a welfare state, an NHS, education and jobs if the whole world can come?

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"How do you have a welfare state, an NHS, education and jobs if the whole world can come?"

But the whole world ISN'T going to come. That's the point.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/migration-statistics

Read the statistics and make an informed comment when you have. It’s a complex issue which the popular press sensationalise and some demonise for political gain.

I would just say that I am eternally grateful that didn’t have to leave my home with my Then small children to embark on a journey into the unknown and be at the mercy of the scum who prey on them and deliberately endanger their lives.

I am done!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

1000%, some people act as if we have millions of refugees trying to climb over our walls into our country, just waiting to steal our jobs, steal etc. It's kinda funny but also incredibly heartbreaking

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"How do you have a welfare state, an NHS, education and jobs if the whole world can come?"

THE WHOLE WORLD ISN'T GOING TO COME. It's a useless question because that hypothetical is literally never going to happen

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By *drianukMan
over a year ago

Spain, Lancs

The question was should we scrap border controls because the world belongs to everyone.

How do you support a welfare state, education, the health service etc if that happened?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"How do you have a welfare state, an NHS, education and jobs if the whole world can come?"

Because those that come will contribute to society and pay tax! Ffs it’s the simplest thing!

How does Pizza Hut stop the entire world from running dry and everyone dieing of obesity if Pepsi refills are free?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/migration-statistics

Read the statistics and make an informed comment when you have. It’s a complex issue which the popular press sensationalise and some demonise for political gain.

I am done!"

Thank you for posting a source, I look forward to reading

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 26/11/21 21:35:29]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How do you support a welfare state, education, the health service etc if that happened?"

More people = more people working = boost to UK economy and more taxs being paid to fund the NHS, education etc

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is it time to scrap immigration controls does the world not belong to everyone why can't we live where we want when we want"

Surely you want people to be properly vetted before coming over, so that you know your loved ones are safe? Unfortunately not everybody comes over here for the right reasons!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"How do you have a welfare state, an NHS, education and jobs if the whole world can come?"

Ok let's flip the question.

Why should you have access to the welfare state, NHS, education and jobs?

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By *drianukMan
over a year ago

Spain, Lancs

My question still hasn't been answered

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My question still hasn't been answered"

Which one? Me and BootlyLover have been having fun responding to each one

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My question still hasn't been answered"

How were the 5 giants evils addressed in the first place. That answers your question.

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By *ouplecu2015Couple
over a year ago

Reading

Ask away

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My question still hasn't been answered"

Because it’s so dumb it’s not even answerable no matter how many times you cut and paste it in reply to anyone who actually does have a reply rather than some whataboutery

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By *drianukMan
over a year ago

Spain, Lancs

"My question still hasn't been answered

Which one? Me and BootlyLover have been having fun responding to each one"

But you have tried to mock the question without actually answering it.

I've asked it countless times so I presume you can't answer

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My question still hasn't been answered

Which one? Me and BootlyLover have been having fun responding to each one

But you have tried to mock the question without actually answering it.

I've asked it countless times so I presume you can't answer"

I've answered it. Still waiting for your answer to my question.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is it time to scrap immigration controls does the world not belong to everyone why can't we live where we want when we want

Surely you want people to be properly vetted before coming over, so that you know your loved ones are safe? Unfortunately not everybody comes over here for the right reasons!!"

No British born citizen has ever done a crime. Can’t argue with this logic

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

But you have tried to mock the question without actually answering it.

I've asked it countless times so I presume you can't answer"

Again I don't know which question you mean. I'm not taking the piss, several of us have answered all of your questions, you just ignore our answers because it contradicts your worldview or because you think we're being mean to you

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By *drianukMan
over a year ago

Spain, Lancs

"My question still hasn't been answered

Which one? Me and BootlyLover have been having fun responding to each one

But you have tried to mock the question without actually answering it.

I've asked it countless times so I presume you can't answer

I've answered it. Still waiting for your answer to my question."

You still haven't answer.

All you've done is come up with a deflection about why I should have access to education etc. Pure deflection.

Again, how can you sustain a welfare state, reasonably paid jobs etc if you abolish national borders?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just noticed Adrian spends time living in Spain. Good for you. Lovely to have a bit of freedom of movement

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My question still hasn't been answered

Which one? Me and BootlyLover have been having fun responding to each one

But you have tried to mock the question without actually answering it.

I've asked it countless times so I presume you can't answer

I've answered it. Still waiting for your answer to my question.

You still haven't answer.

All you've done is come up with a deflection about why I should have access to education etc. Pure deflection.

Again, how can you sustain a welfare state, reasonably paid jobs etc if you abolish national borders?"

Because

jobs

still

exist

and

workers

pay

taxes

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Again, how can you sustain a welfare state, reasonably paid jobs etc if you abolish national borders?"

We both answered, the people coming in would pay taxes which would support the systems, in just the same way we do. The increased amount of taxes being paid would meet the extra demand.

I answered it politely without any deflection/mockery, so you can't say we aren't ignoring your question

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By *drianukMan
over a year ago

Spain, Lancs

"Just noticed Adrian spends time living in Spain. Good for you. Lovely to have a bit of freedom of movement "

Where is the equivalence? Spain decides how many, if any, foreigners it will allow into Spain.

In what way is that the same as abolishing national borders?

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"My question still hasn't been answered

Which one? Me and BootlyLover have been having fun responding to each one

But you have tried to mock the question without actually answering it.

I've asked it countless times so I presume you can't answer

I've answered it. Still waiting for your answer to my question.

You still haven't answer.

All you've done is come up with a deflection about why I should have access to education etc. Pure deflection.

Again, how can you sustain a welfare state, reasonably paid jobs etc if you abolish national borders?"

How have other countries coped with this sort of thing when their national borders have been redrawn and territory pinged from one nation to another?

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By *azylivingMan
over a year ago

random location

"We need to make it safe for them to get here for sure! X"

They can apply from France.

Oh my that’s a safe county, why so insistence to come to the uk

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Just noticed Adrian spends time living in Spain. Good for you. Lovely to have a bit of freedom of movement

Where is the equivalence? Spain decides how many, if any, foreigners it will allow into Spain.

In what way is that the same as abolishing national borders?"

So do we!

They just don’t make them play immigration squid game before allowing them to apply.

The OP was clearly asking a rhetorical or hypothetical question to provoke thought, and you’ve taken it literally in a way that will and has never happened anywhere since America was invaded

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By *drianukMan
over a year ago

Spain, Lancs

Again, how can you sustain a welfare state, reasonably paid jobs etc if you abolish national borders?

We both answered, the people coming in would pay taxes which would support the systems, in just the same way we do. The increased amount of taxes being paid would meet the extra demand.

I answered it politely without any deflection/mockery, so you can't say we aren't ignoring your question"

And if the UK let it be known in the poorest country in the world that they could all go to the UK and have jobs, benefits, health, schools etc and millions then arrived... would they be paying for their share of the costs?

How many years would it take for them to get into work? Who wi pay for them in the meantime?

Where would the housing come from?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Unless you are talking about anarchy, how is that even realistically possible? If the world is for everyone, does that apply for properties you own too?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Again, how can you sustain a welfare state, reasonably paid jobs etc if you abolish national borders?

We both answered, the people coming in would pay taxes which would support the systems, in just the same way we do. The increased amount of taxes being paid would meet the extra demand.

I answered it politely without any deflection/mockery, so you can't say we aren't ignoring your question

How many years would it take for them to get into work? Who wi pay for them in the meantime?

Where would the housing come from?"

They’re all gonna live in your garage mate. And share your wife. You’ll pay for the privilege. (It’s what he wants to hear)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Again, how can you sustain a welfare state, reasonably paid jobs etc if you abolish national borders?

We both answered, the people coming in would pay taxes which would support the systems, in just the same way we do. The increased amount of taxes being paid would meet the extra demand.

I answered it politely without any deflection/mockery, so you can't say we aren't ignoring your question"

How educated are the refugees coming in? How much tax do you realistically expect from them? Do you think they are directly employable?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How many years would it take for them to get into work? Who wi pay for them in the meantime?

Where would the housing come from?"

My guy, we have been over this. No one is saying that millions will come, this is a random scary number you have just come up with.

Also yes, why wouldn't they pay their fair share? If they come here and work, they'd pay their taxes just like you and I. The current taxes plus the increased tax from the new people would cover the wait for some to get jobs in the mean time, just like it does currently.

Housing has been discussed above but basically the government also needs to sort that out, as well as a reform for the border thing. This isn't a one-fix issue thing. OP's idea by itself wouldn't work as it's a complicated process, but along with other reforms then yes it absolutely should work

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Lol

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By *drianukMan
over a year ago

Spain, Lancs

How many years would it take for them to get into work? Who wi pay for them in the meantime?

Where would the housing come from?

My guy, we have been over this. No one is saying that millions will come, this is a random scary number you have just come up with.

Oh, I see... you're now talking about controlled immigration now, are you?

Even though the OP's question was about abolishing borders?

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

Again, how can you sustain a welfare state, reasonably paid jobs etc if you abolish national borders?

We both answered, the people coming in would pay taxes which would support the systems, in just the same way we do. The increased amount of taxes being paid would meet the extra demand.

I answered it politely without any deflection/mockery, so you can't say we aren't ignoring your question

How educated are the refugees coming in? How much tax do you realistically expect from them? Do you think they are directly employable?"

Many refugees coming in are highly educated. They are professional people in their countries of origin, or at least, they were. There's loads of doctors, dentists, nurses, teachers, chefs, tradespeople, lorry and coach drivers etc, sitting redundant because they aren't allowed to work while waiting for their immigration claim to be processed, which can take years.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My question still hasn't been answered

Which one? Me and BootlyLover have been having fun responding to each one

But you have tried to mock the question without actually answering it.

I've asked it countless times so I presume you can't answer

I've answered it. Still waiting for your answer to my question.

You still haven't answer.

All you've done is come up with a deflection about why I should have access to education etc. Pure deflection.

Again, how can you sustain a welfare state, reasonably paid jobs etc if you abolish national borders?"

How do you launch a rocket into space to breed chickens on Mars?

That's pretty much as relevant as your question.

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By *drianukMan
over a year ago

Spain, Lancs

"My question still hasn't been answered

Which one? Me and BootlyLover have been having fun responding to each one

But you have tried to mock the question without actually answering it.

I've asked it countless times so I presume you can't answer

I've answered it. Still waiting for your answer to my question.

You still haven't answer.

All you've done is come up with a deflection about why I should have access to education etc. Pure deflection.

Again, how can you sustain a welfare state, reasonably paid jobs etc if you abolish national borders?

How do you launch a rocket into space to breed chickens on Mars?

That's pretty much as relevant as your question."

So how do we do it then?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Again, how can you sustain a welfare state, reasonably paid jobs etc if you abolish national borders?

We both answered, the people coming in would pay taxes which would support the systems, in just the same way we do. The increased amount of taxes being paid would meet the extra demand.

I answered it politely without any deflection/mockery, so you can't say we aren't ignoring your question

How educated are the refugees coming in? How much tax do you realistically expect from them? Do you think they are directly employable?"

Statistics show that immigrants (all, combined, so including all out Pakistani origined doctors and so on, not just the scruffy ones in a dingy) cost the country nothing overall, and are a net gain for the economy. They want to come here to earn money. Not live off £39.63 a week benefits

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By *drianukMan
over a year ago

Spain, Lancs

Again, how can you sustain a welfare state, reasonably paid jobs etc if you abolish national borders?

We both answered, the people coming in would pay taxes which would support the systems, in just the same way we do. The increased amount of taxes being paid would meet the extra demand.

I answered it politely without any deflection/mockery, so you can't say we aren't ignoring your question

How educated are the refugees coming in? How much tax do you realistically expect from them? Do you think they are directly employable?

Isn't that an argument for controlled immigration, not abolishing national borders?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I read somewhere that immigrants (I hate that word but don’t know what other word to use) are actually very good for our economy. The majority of them are either single men or men who come here without their family, they work and pay their taxes (despite what the media tries to make you believe), they tend to drink and smoke so they pay taxes on them and and they don’t take much out of country in terms of schooling, as they don’t have any kids here, or the NHS as they’re at an age where they aren’t going to need much medical care. I’m not sure how true this is and it’s not image the media are ever going to portray but it does make sense to me. I know it’s not true for ever immigrant but I’d say it is for the majority.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Again, how can you sustain a welfare state, reasonably paid jobs etc if you abolish national borders?

We both answered, the people coming in would pay taxes which would support the systems, in just the same way we do. The increased amount of taxes being paid would meet the extra demand.

I answered it politely without any deflection/mockery, so you can't say we aren't ignoring your question

How educated are the refugees coming in? How much tax do you realistically expect from them? Do you think they are directly employable?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oh, I see... you're now talking about controlled immigration now, are you?

Even though the OP's question was about abolishing borders?"

You're arguing semantics instead of the actual point. Instead of responding to any of the point me, BootlyLover, and the others have made, you keep using circular arguments. If people came in via these border, they'd still pay the taxes and all of the other points we keep mentioning and you keep ignoring

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Again, how can you sustain a welfare state, reasonably paid jobs etc if you abolish national borders?

We both answered, the people coming in would pay taxes which would support the systems, in just the same way we do. The increased amount of taxes being paid would meet the extra demand.

I answered it politely without any deflection/mockery, so you can't say we aren't ignoring your question

How educated are the refugees coming in? How much tax do you realistically expect from them? Do you think they are directly employable?

Not really. Most of them claim that they are running away from war torn countries. You think that they all got good degrees in those countries? Majority of them are not employable other than manual labour. It would be added burden on the government to make them employable and then find jobs for them too, when they are already struggling to do the same for its own citizens.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My question still hasn't been answered

Which one? Me and BootlyLover have been having fun responding to each one

But you have tried to mock the question without actually answering it.

I've asked it countless times so I presume you can't answer

I've answered it. Still waiting for your answer to my question.

You still haven't answer.

All you've done is come up with a deflection about why I should have access to education etc. Pure deflection.

Again, how can you sustain a welfare state, reasonably paid jobs etc if you abolish national borders?

How do you launch a rocket into space to breed chickens on Mars?

That's pretty much as relevant as your question.

So how do we do it then?"

You figure shit out the same way you sent a dog into space.

Your thought process is the equivalent of never starting something because you don't know how to do it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I read somewhere that immigrants (I hate that word but don’t know what other word to use) are actually very good for our economy. The majority of them are either single men or men who come here without their family, they work and pay their taxes (despite what the media tries to make you believe), they tend to drink and smoke so they pay taxes on them and and they don’t take much out of country in terms of schooling, as they don’t have any kids here, or the NHS as they’re at an age where they aren’t going to need much medical care. I’m not sure how true this is and it’s not image the media are ever going to portray but it does make sense to me. I know it’s not true for ever immigrant but I’d say it is for the majority. "

Where did you read it? Any link?

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By *drianukMan
over a year ago

Spain, Lancs

Oh, I see... you're now talking about controlled immigration now, are you?

Even though the OP's question was about abolishing borders?

It's not semantics.

The OP asked about abolishing national borders. Are you now talking about controlled immigration?

Because that would be fair enough...but you are changing the subject and, therefore, junking the argument for a complete free for all

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My question still hasn't been answered

Which one? Me and BootlyLover have been having fun responding to each one

But you have tried to mock the question without actually answering it.

I've asked it countless times so I presume you can't answer

I've answered it. Still waiting for your answer to my question.

You still haven't answer.

All you've done is come up with a deflection about why I should have access to education etc. Pure deflection.

Again, how can you sustain a welfare state, reasonably paid jobs etc if you abolish national borders?

How do you launch a rocket into space to breed chickens on Mars?

That's pretty much as relevant as your question.

So how do we do it then?

You figure shit out the same way you sent a dog into space.

Your thought process is the equivalent of never starting something because you don't know how to do it."

Wow. Comparing a country's space program with building a welfare state. Such a clever comparison.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Again, how can you sustain a welfare state, reasonably paid jobs etc if you abolish national borders?

We both answered, the people coming in would pay taxes which would support the systems, in just the same way we do. The increased amount of taxes being paid would meet the extra demand.

I answered it politely without any deflection/mockery, so you can't say we aren't ignoring your question

How educated are the refugees coming in? How much tax do you realistically expect from them? Do you think they are directly employable?

Isn't that an argument for controlled immigration, not abolishing national borders?"

I think all of us are suggesting control is required, and vetting and returns if needed to an extent. The answer is clearly not a free for or not a total ban. Both of those arguments are clearly vacuous and devoid of worth. But you seem to be carefully avoiding reply to those (like me) who clearly state they are in favour of a more generous system of applying that control with reasons and thinking behind it, and just banging the ban immigrant drum that is equally ridiculous as the free love OP who was at least being rhetorical and just asking the question, whereas you really believe your answer.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Again, how can you sustain a welfare state, reasonably paid jobs etc if you abolish national borders?

We both answered, the people coming in would pay taxes which would support the systems, in just the same way we do. The increased amount of taxes being paid would meet the extra demand.

I answered it politely without any deflection/mockery, so you can't say we aren't ignoring your question

How educated are the refugees coming in? How much tax do you realistically expect from them? Do you think they are directly employable?

There is a SHORTAGE OF WORKERS IN UK.

Reality is people here don't want to work or there isn't enough people to work.

You're also basing your arguments on something they have 0 control of.

Being born in place A of a giant fucking rock instead of place B, shouldn't dictate your chances of living and survival.

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By *2000ManMan
over a year ago

Worthing

[Removed by poster at 26/11/21 22:05:22]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The OP asked about abolishing national borders. Are you now talking about controlled immigration?

Because that would be fair enough...but you are changing the subject and, therefore, junking the argument for a complete free for all"

Because the same points still apply. Someone from another country thinks they want to live in the UK, so they come here and work and pay taxes etc. That's the same for controlled immegretion and open borders. It's the same point, which you are continuing to ignore

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Where did you read it? Any link?"

1 Google, first hit:

The net fiscal impact of immigration is typically estimated from the difference between taxes that the Government receives as a result of migrants living and working in the UK and the costs of providing them with public services and cash benefits

Past studies suggest that the net fiscal impact of migration in the UK is relatively small compared to the size of the whole economy (less than +/-1% of GDP)

More…

Studies consistently find that the net fiscal contribution of the current population of EU-15 migrants (those from the older EU member states) is positive, while that of non-EEA migrants is negative. In contrast, the fiscal contribution of EU10 migrants (from post-2004 EU accession states) is contested, with some assumptions giving positive results and others negative results

More…

The net fiscal effects of immigration depend on migrants’ characteristics, including their age, skills and earnings, and whether they have children. This means the current impact of the migrant population may be different from the impact over the course of their whole life cycle

More…

The Office for Budget Responsibility forecasts that higher net migration reduces pressure on government debt. This result is based on the assumption that a higher share of incoming migrants will continue to be working age than the population in general and that they will earn the same as people in the existing population of the same age and gender

More…

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My question still hasn't been answered

Which one? Me and BootlyLover have been having fun responding to each one

But you have tried to mock the question without actually answering it.

I've asked it countless times so I presume you can't answer

I've answered it. Still waiting for your answer to my question.

You still haven't answer.

All you've done is come up with a deflection about why I should have access to education etc. Pure deflection.

Again, how can you sustain a welfare state, reasonably paid jobs etc if you abolish national borders?

How do you launch a rocket into space to breed chickens on Mars?

That's pretty much as relevant as your question.

So how do we do it then?

You figure shit out the same way you sent a dog into space.

Your thought process is the equivalent of never starting something because you don't know how to do it.

Wow. Comparing a country's space program with building a welfare state. Such a clever comparison."

From your posts on this thread I'm surprised to see you are familiar with the word clever.

Good job the education system has taught you that in a country where you've been given the opportunity to learn, live and work.

Well done mate, big fucking accomplishment being born

Oh wait, you didn't do that yourself either...

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By *drianukMan
over a year ago

Spain, Lancs

The OP asked about abolishing national borders. Are you now talking about controlled immigration?

Because that would be fair enough...but you are changing the subject and, therefore, junking the argument for a complete free for all

I think we're all for controlled immigration. But the question the OP raised was about abolition of borders so that people can go absolutely anywhere.

A silly idea and I'm glad you agree

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

Again, how can you sustain a welfare state, reasonably paid jobs etc if you abolish national borders?

We both answered, the people coming in would pay taxes which would support the systems, in just the same way we do. The increased amount of taxes being paid would meet the extra demand.

I answered it politely without any deflection/mockery, so you can't say we aren't ignoring your question

How educated are the refugees coming in? How much tax do you realistically expect from them? Do you think they are directly employable?

Absolute garbage. Believe it or not, education existed to a very high standard in Syria, Iraq and many other countries prior to the wars or disasters that befell them. Believe it or not, they have time served carpenters, electricians, plumbers. They have doctors, nurses and teachers. Their country is now a pile of fucking rubble with ongoing conflict so they can no longer perform their trades/skills in those countries.

My own dentist is a guy from Syria. I work with exceptionally well educated Lebanese nationals (actually ethnic Palestinian), Bangladeshis, north African people (various). They've come to this country in different ways over the years but all of them are earning a decent wage, paying taxes, and educating young people. A colleague of mine volunteers for refugee charities and she sees first hand that there's tons of well educated, highly skilled people sitting on their hands, waiting to be allowed to work.

They don't come here to claim a few quid on the social. They come here to work.

Go and check out some of the schemes to provide training in English medium for qualified health care professional refugees and asylum seekers. Liverpool University is heavily involved.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Again, how can you sustain a welfare state, reasonably paid jobs etc if you abolish national borders?

We both answered, the people coming in would pay taxes which would support the systems, in just the same way we do. The increased amount of taxes being paid would meet the extra demand.

I answered it politely without any deflection/mockery, so you can't say we aren't ignoring your question

How educated are the refugees coming in? How much tax do you realistically expect from them? Do you think they are directly employable?

They don't come here to claim a few quid on the social. They come here to work.

Go and check out some of the schemes to provide training in English medium for qualified health care professional refugees and asylum seekers. Liverpool University is heavily involved. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Again, how can you sustain a welfare state, reasonably paid jobs etc if you abolish national borders?

We both answered, the people coming in would pay taxes which would support the systems, in just the same way we do. The increased amount of taxes being paid would meet the extra demand.

I answered it politely without any deflection/mockery, so you can't say we aren't ignoring your question

How educated are the refugees coming in? How much tax do you realistically expect from them? Do you think they are directly employable?

There is a SHORTAGE OF WORKERS IN UK.

Reality is people here don't want to work or there isn't enough people to work.

You're also basing your arguments on something they have 0 control of.

Being born in place A of a giant fucking rock instead of place B, shouldn't dictate your chances of living and survival."

How many of the asylum seekers are willing are qualified for those jobs and how many of them are willing to work to earn that money?

Denmark is a country which proposed that refugees should work to earn their benefits instead of getting it for free. Why aren't the refugees moving there instead of the UK? Everyone in Denmark speaks English too. So language is not an excuse.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think we're all for controlled immigration. But the question the OP raised was about abolition of borders so that people can go absolutely anywhere.

A silly idea and I'm glad you agree"

That doesn't contradict my point in the slightest, and the fact you think you're making a good point is embarassing. You're just being willfully ignorant because you haven't got a counterpoint.

Controlled immegration/open borders/whatever the fuck you wanna call it. Long story short, your scared that the foreigners will want to come here because NO RESTRICTIONS! But do you genuinley think someone with no job/other way to support themselves will want to come? The borders won't have shit to do with their living. Why come to the UK if they're just gonna be homeless? Let's see if you'll actually answer this

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By *drianukMan
over a year ago

Spain, Lancs

A good analogy would be your own family.

Let's say you have children. You rightly feel obliged to feed them, clothe them, keep them healthy etc.

Does that mean that you then have the same obligation to every child in your town? That they can come in and demand to be fed?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Where did you read it? Any link?

1 Google, first hit:

Past studies suggest that the net fiscal impact of migration in the UK is relatively small compared to the size of the whole economy (less than +/-1% of GDP)

More…

More…"

Think that kind of backs up what I said, even if the impact is small.

A lot of people say that immigration creates a strain on our economy and that doesn’t seem to be the case at all.

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By *drianukMan
over a year ago

Spain, Lancs

I think we're all for controlled immigration. But the question the OP raised was about abolition of borders so that people can go absolutely anywhere.

A silly idea and I'm glad you agree

That doesn't contradict my point in the slightest, and the fact you think you're making a good point is embarassing. You're just being willfully ignorant because you haven't got a counterpoint.

Let's imagine country A with an average income of £30,000 pa, education, a welfare state, good jobs etc.

Then let's imagine country B with an average income of £1,000 pa, poor health, constant fighting and early death.

Do you really think the citizens of country B wouldn't want to go to country A?

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"A good analogy would be your own family.

Let's say you have children. You rightly feel obliged to feed them, clothe them, keep them healthy etc.

Does that mean that you then have the same obligation to every child in your town? That they can come in and demand to be fed?"

I believe that we as a society have responsibility towards others in our community, yes. That's why I volunteer. That's why I donate used items to charities that support less well off families, for example. It's why I put food in the food bank box and why I try my utmost not to waste resources and don't buy things I don't need, so there's plenty for others.

If others tried a bit of community minded behaviour, everyone would be a bit richer and I don't mean in hard cash terms.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is what they’re getting for risking their lives

What you'll get

You can ask for somewhere to live, a cash allowance or both as an asylum seeker.

Housing

You’ll be given somewhere to live if you need it. This could be in a flat, house, hostel or bed and breakfast.

You cannot choose where you live. It’s unlikely you’ll get to live in London or south-east England.

Cash support

You’ll get £39.63 for each person in your household. This will help you pay for things you need like food, clothing and toiletries.

Your allowance will be loaded onto a debit card (ASPEN card) each week. You’ll be able to use the card to get cash from a cash machine.

If you’ve been refused asylum

You’ll be given:

somewhere to live

£39.63 per person on a payment card for food, clothing and toiletries

You will not be given:

the payment card if you do not take the offer of somewhere to live

any money

You can ask for the following if you’re homeless, do not have any money to buy food and you can show that there’s a reason why you cannot leave the UK yet:

short-term housing

help with prescriptions for medicine, dental care for your teeth, eyesight tests and glasses

a payment card for food and toiletries

You will not be given the payment card without the housing and you will not be given any cash.

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No wonder 6billion people want in! Seriously we have a job shortage and these people

Will do them and pay taxes, but we can’t even let them work until we spend 9 months doing the above while we assess them at glacial paces

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The situation that a person must be in to make the decision to travel across a continent in search of a better life is hard to fathom. Let alone to put your life at risk trying to get to the UK illegally by paying traffickers to take you over the channel. I would think that anyone making that choice doesn’t do so lightly.

Immigration and especially illegal immigration is in my opinion, not actually the massive issue made out to be by politicians and the press. Yes the UK has limited resources, the social security system struggles as is, there is a housing crisis…but how many of these issues have anything to do with the number of people coming to this country? Or would even be affected by the level of illegal and legal immigrants? Enter the country illegally you have no access to welfare, public housing etc go through the integration process and you have very limited access to benefits.

There is no easy solution. The topic has been a political football forever and a day. So what to do?

Well we live in one of the richest countries on earth our main concern should be making sure people do not loose their lives trying to get here and that their living conditions while we figure it out are acceptable. Immigration is an easy win for politics looking to distract or blame for their own failings.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Where did you read it? Any link?"

No link, sorry. It was years ago so I can’t actually remember whether I read it, heard it on the tv or radio or if someone I know told me, it’s just something that’s stuck with me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Let's imagine country A with an average income of £30,000 pa, education, a welfare state, good jobs etc.

Then let's imagine country B with an average income of £1,000 pa, poor health, constant fighting and early death.

Do you really think the citizens of country B wouldn't want to go to country A?"

You didn't answer my question. You started (metaphorically) crying when you thought we didn't aswer yours, answer my question first instead of deflecting with hypotheticals

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Again, how can you sustain a welfare state, reasonably paid jobs etc if you abolish national borders?

We both answered, the people coming in would pay taxes which would support the systems, in just the same way we do. The increased amount of taxes being paid would meet the extra demand.

I answered it politely without any deflection/mockery, so you can't say we aren't ignoring your question

How educated are the refugees coming in? How much tax do you realistically expect from them? Do you think they are directly employable?

They don't come here to claim a few quid on the social. They come here to work.

Go and check out some of the schemes to provide training in English medium for qualified health care professional refugees and asylum seekers. Liverpool University is heavily involved. "

Just because you saw some people who are qualified, it doesn't mean that they are all qualified. Statistics show otherwise:

https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2019-04-25-new-report-explores-barriers-employment-refugees-and-%E2%80%98asylum-migrants%E2%80%99

Only 51% of asylum granted refugees are employed.

They also earn much less than local population.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

A quote from your link above:

"One encouraging finding is that those individuals who came to the UK for asylum reasons are more likely than the UK born or other migrants to be in self-employment and to employ other people – though their businesses are often small. Policy interventions directed at boosting entrepreneurial potential among refugees and post-asylum settled migrants should consider the factors that limit the growth of these businesses – such as limited access to finance”.

The report also suggests that unemployed asylum migrants rely heavily on public agencies – notably job centres - for their job searches, but that this is not particularly effective. Future analysis should investigate how agencies could serve asylum migrants more effectively, for example, through employment advisers providing specialist support and careers guidance.

The research also identified that lengthy legal restrictions to access the labour market while asylum claims are being evaluated can have adverse long-term consequences for mental health. Support from voluntary agencies could identify training and support programmes to help address these issues."

Lack of prior education is not why asylum seekers/refugees who have been given permission to work, are under or unemployed. Can you think of any barriers to getting a doctor from Syria, who was educated entirely in Arabic, who has had majorly traumatic experiences and who has been languishing in the asylum system for years, into a medical role? Because I can.

The fact so many on here are so prejudiced and stereotypes immigrants in the way that they do - no wonder immigrants are more likely to be self employed! Too much racism and prejudice unfortunately.

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