FabSwingers.com forum: Do we need a new political party

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I mull this over a lot and my idea is bat shit crazy but.....

I'm considering starting a political party for ordinary people.

OK laughter over now let's get real.

I'm over 49. and I've never known anything other than Labour or tories to be in power.

Opposition wise to me the lib dems are in effectual as a opposition so all roads will inevitably go back to a Labour or Tory government.

And so the political coin spins and lands on red or blue. With the only effective opposition being the other side of the same coin.

Don't get me wrong there are pressure groups that push for some very worthy and unworthy causes But none of these groups are exclusively to support simple ordinary people.

Labour and Tories say they do. But let's be honest they can't agree which lace to tie first. And even if they did agree. Such an agreement would be constitutionally dangerous.

(By this I mean if the Tories and Labour both agreed an idea. Ie paint all doors red. The law would pass unopposed. We would all have to start painting.)

So what we have then is if the tories had a great idea that would help and support ordinary people. Labour would effectively have to oppose it. And vice versa. But both parties now seem so far apart they wouldn't know or be able to meet the needs of plain ordinary people

And so to my point.

1) good idea or bad idea?

2) does anyone know how to start a

New political party?

Please begin

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Registering a new political party is pretty straightforward, although you'll need a constitution, structure and financial scheme. Also £150 to register with the Electoral Commission.

See their website.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Until we bin FPTP, it's a waste of time.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Until we bin FPTP, it's a waste of time. "

Indeed

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Until we bin FPTP, it's a waste of time. "

True

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Terrible idea, plenty of existing parties to rally round, it’s just as said already none will ever get anywhere without proportional representation.

And you have had the LibDems in power as part of a coalition government, and while they had to help the government pass some bills they didn’t actually support (Student loans etc), then also got the Toryboys to pass a smaller number of things that they didn’t want to pass. That’s proportional representation by the back door, but they got absolutely roasted for it, so frankly I’m not even sure people know what’s good for them

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We need a new system. Brexit revealed our much vaunted parliamentary system to be an utter shambles influenced far too much, on all sides, by cronyism and those with self serving agendas, not to mention the fossil that is the House of Lords. When the people got to speak, regardless of which view you took, the political elite were so wrapped up in their own arrogance, they were totally unprepared for what might and did happen. Even worse, they spent the next three years trying to stop it or work it to their personal advantage.

I will never vote again in this system.

So, to answer the op's question, no we don't need another, we have quite enough twats already.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

We just need Gary Neville to be our next overlord!!!!

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By *inkyeroticaCouple
over a year ago

Ampthill

"And you have had the LibDems in power as part of a coalition government, and while they had to help the government pass some bills they didn’t actually support (Student loans etc), then also got the Toryboys to pass a smaller number of things that they didn’t want to pass. "

Except what they actually sold down the river was one of their arch principals… free education. And with that their credibility died for a generation.

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By *ockosaurusMan
over a year ago

Warwick

"We need a new system. Brexit revealed our much vaunted parliamentary system to be an utter shambles influenced far too much, on all sides, by cronyism and those with self serving agendas, not to mention the fossil that is the House of Lords. When the people got to speak, regardless of which view you took, the political elite were so wrapped up in their own arrogance, they were totally unprepared for what might and did happen. Even worse, they spent the next three years trying to stop it or work it to their personal advantage.

I will never vote again in this system.

So, to answer the op's question, no we don't need another, we have quite enough twats already."

Unfortunately, not voting again doesn't help. If anything it helps make things worse.

Look at policies that mean something to you and vote for the lesser of evils, even if that is a party that has no chance of winning.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

I will never vote again in this system.

So, to answer the op's question, no we don't need another, we have quite enough twats already.

Unfortunately, not voting again doesn't help. If anything it helps make things worse.

Look at policies that mean something to you and vote for the lesser of evils, even if that is a party that has no chance of winning."

I hold my nose and vote, but the system needs a complete overhaul.

Democratic upper house

Greater independence of judiciary

Disentangle parliamentary sovereignty from the executive - if not think of a better system

Scrap FPTP

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By *inkyeroticaCouple
over a year ago

Ampthill

"Labour and Tories say they do. But let's be honest they can't agree which lace to tie first. And even if they did agree. Such an agreement would be constitutionally dangerous.

(By this I mean if the Tories and Labour both agreed an idea. Ie paint all doors red. The law would pass unopposed. We would all have to start painting.)"

With a majority party, the opposition isn’t the issue. With a majority they can pretty much do what they like, unless the have resistance in their own ranks.

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By *ockosaurusMan
over a year ago

Warwick

I will never vote again in this system.

So, to answer the op's question, no we don't need another, we have quite enough twats already.

Unfortunately, not voting again doesn't help. If anything it helps make things worse.

Look at policies that mean something to you and vote for the lesser of evils, even if that is a party that has no chance of winning.

I hold my nose and vote, but the system needs a complete overhaul.

Democratic upper house

Greater independence of judiciary

Disentangle parliamentary sovereignty from the executive - if not think of a better system

Scrap FPTP"

Totally agree. But I can't see it ever happening as it's potentially damaging for the people that need to put it in place.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Except what they actually sold down the river was one of their arch principals… free education. And with that their credibility died for a generation."

My personal feeling is that they got stitched up on that one. Yes, they helped the Cons get their way, but if they had never entered into the coalition another election would have seen them get in and do it on their own. So it was always going to come to pass, the LD influence was not big enough to stop this, neither was Labours and we don’t blame them. But they did get a smaller number of LD manifesto wins implemented that the Cons wouldn’t have done. In proportion to the number of seats they won in that election (not many) they represented their manifesto with influence proportionally (a bit, not much).

The kicking they got has killed the 3 party system, and made the chances of either Cons or Lab needing a coalition ever again almost infinitesimally small. Lib Dem voters (like me) should have sucked it up knowing that coalitions were their route to proportional power. Now I can’t even name a single LD MP, not even the party leader

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

I will never vote again in this system.

So, to answer the op's question, no we don't need another, we have quite enough twats already.

Unfortunately, not voting again doesn't help. If anything it helps make things worse.

Look at policies that mean something to you and vote for the lesser of evils, even if that is a party that has no chance of winning.

I hold my nose and vote, but the system needs a complete overhaul.

Democratic upper house

Greater independence of judiciary

Disentangle parliamentary sovereignty from the executive - if not think of a better system

Scrap FPTP

Totally agree. But I can't see it ever happening as it's potentially damaging for the people that need to put it in place. "

Oh agreed. They won't change what benefits them.

And so the blatant corruption rumbles on.

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By *ellhungvweMan
over a year ago

Cheltenham

I will never vote again in this system.

So, to answer the op's question, no we don't need another, we have quite enough twats already.

Unfortunately, not voting again doesn't help. If anything it helps make things worse.

Look at policies that mean something to you and vote for the lesser of evils, even if that is a party that has no chance of winning.

I hold my nose and vote, but the system needs a complete overhaul.

Democratic upper house

Greater independence of judiciary

Disentangle parliamentary sovereignty from the executive - if not think of a better system

Scrap FPTP

Totally agree. But I can't see it ever happening as it's potentially damaging for the people that need to put it in place.

Oh agreed. They won't change what benefits them.

And so the blatant corruption rumbles on."

Have you considered standing as an independent?

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By *inkyeroticaCouple
over a year ago

Ampthill

"Yes, they helped the Cons get their way, but if they had never entered into the coalition another election would have seen them get in and do it on their own. "

What happened to the LibDems was there for all to see. They backed the wrong horse and should have joined a Labour in coalition. They Tories were always going to fuck them over.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

I will never vote again in this system.

So, to answer the op's question, no we don't need another, we have quite enough twats already.

Unfortunately, not voting again doesn't help. If anything it helps make things worse.

Look at policies that mean something to you and vote for the lesser of evils, even if that is a party that has no chance of winning.

I hold my nose and vote, but the system needs a complete overhaul.

Democratic upper house

Greater independence of judiciary

Disentangle parliamentary sovereignty from the executive - if not think of a better system

Scrap FPTP

Totally agree. But I can't see it ever happening as it's potentially damaging for the people that need to put it in place.

Oh agreed. They won't change what benefits them.

And so the blatant corruption rumbles on.

Have you considered standing as an independent? "

Do you imagine that would work under our current system? How many do stand as independents and how much power do they have?

My energy is better served elsewhere.

Besides, in my seat, the Tories regularly get less votes than the Greens

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By *ellhungvweMan
over a year ago

Cheltenham

I will never vote again in this system.

So, to answer the op's question, no we don't need another, we have quite enough twats already.

Unfortunately, not voting again doesn't help. If anything it helps make things worse.

Look at policies that mean something to you and vote for the lesser of evils, even if that is a party that has no chance of winning.

I hold my nose and vote, but the system needs a complete overhaul.

Democratic upper house

Greater independence of judiciary

Disentangle parliamentary sovereignty from the executive - if not think of a better system

Scrap FPTP

Totally agree. But I can't see it ever happening as it's potentially damaging for the people that need to put it in place.

Oh agreed. They won't change what benefits them.

And so the blatant corruption rumbles on.

Have you considered standing as an independent?

Do you imagine that would work under our current system? How many do stand as independents and how much power do they have?

My energy is better served elsewhere.

Besides, in my seat, the Tories regularly get less votes than the Greens

A cohort of independents would be a lot easier to set up than a whole new party.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes, they helped the Cons get their way, but if they had never entered into the coalition another election would have seen them get in and do it on their own.

What happened to the LibDems was there for all to see. They backed the wrong horse and should have joined a Labour in coalition. They Tories were always going to fuck them over."

It was the voters who fucked them over not the torys

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well there is no opposition atm. The way the tories handled brexit (false promises, contracts to their friends and cut and run) and the way they handled the pandemic (sacrificing human lives, contracts to their friends and making a mint off death) and scandal after scandal without a glove being laid on them by that wet wipe starmer is a joke.

The shit they pulled last week they only tried as they thought they would get away with it as they have got away with everything else. The PM is a racist and a man with such credibility when his children are mentioned they have to put the word allegedly infront of how many he may have.

The gravy train will end somewhere I'm just not sure what will push people to wake up to it or give a fuck

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I mull this over a lot and my idea is bat shit crazy but.....

I'm considering starting a political party for ordinary people.

OK laughter over now let's get real.

I'm over 49. and I've never known anything other than Labour or tories to be in power.

Opposition wise to me the lib dems are in effectual as a opposition so all roads will inevitably go back to a Labour or Tory government.

And so the political coin spins and lands on red or blue. With the only effective opposition being the other side of the same coin.

Don't get me wrong there are pressure groups that push for some very worthy and unworthy causes But none of these groups are exclusively to support simple ordinary people.

Labour and Tories say they do. But let's be honest they can't agree which lace to tie first. And even if they did agree. Such an agreement would be constitutionally dangerous.

(By this I mean if the Tories and Labour both agreed an idea. Ie paint all doors red. The law would pass unopposed. We would all have to start painting.)

And so to my point.

1) good idea or bad idea?

2) does anyone know how to start a

New political party?

Please begin"

Definitely, the dominance of 'red or blue team politics' nulifies democracy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

NO the rich chosen millionaires are so out of touch with normal people

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

I will never vote again in this system.

So, to answer the op's question, no we don't need another, we have quite enough twats already.

Unfortunately, not voting again doesn't help. If anything it helps make things worse.

Look at policies that mean something to you and vote for the lesser of evils, even if that is a party that has no chance of winning.

I hold my nose and vote, but the system needs a complete overhaul.

Democratic upper house

Greater independence of judiciary

Disentangle parliamentary sovereignty from the executive - if not think of a better system

Scrap FPTP

Totally agree. But I can't see it ever happening as it's potentially damaging for the people that need to put it in place.

Oh agreed. They won't change what benefits them.

And so the blatant corruption rumbles on.

Have you considered standing as an independent?

Do you imagine that would work under our current system? How many do stand as independents and how much power do they have?

My energy is better served elsewhere.

Besides, in my seat, the Tories regularly get less votes than the Greens

A cohort of independents would be a lot easier to set up than a whole new party. "

I'm not proposing setting up a new party. I'm saying the system is broken.

I do not think independents can realistically play the kind of role they do under other constitutional arrangements, and I see it as a waste of my energy. That's not to say others can't. My energy is better spent elsewhere.

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By *ellhungvweMan
over a year ago

Cheltenham

I will never vote again in this system.

So, to answer the op's question, no we don't need another, we have quite enough twats already.

Unfortunately, not voting again doesn't help. If anything it helps make things worse.

Look at policies that mean something to you and vote for the lesser of evils, even if that is a party that has no chance of winning.

I hold my nose and vote, but the system needs a complete overhaul.

Democratic upper house

Greater independence of judiciary

Disentangle parliamentary sovereignty from the executive - if not think of a better system

Scrap FPTP

Totally agree. But I can't see it ever happening as it's potentially damaging for the people that need to put it in place.

Oh agreed. They won't change what benefits them.

And so the blatant corruption rumbles on.

Have you considered standing as an independent?

Do you imagine that would work under our current system? How many do stand as independents and how much power do they have?

My energy is better served elsewhere.

Besides, in my seat, the Tories regularly get less votes than the Greens

A cohort of independents would be a lot easier to set up than a whole new party.

I'm not proposing setting up a new party. I'm saying the system is broken.

So is mine and, I would imagine, everyone else who might have an independent voice. I guess that is why we have the leaders we have.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I will never vote again in this system.

So, to answer the op's question, no we don't need another, we have quite enough twats already."

All of the above is kind of my point. And to be honest there's not much between them. In my time I've voted for both.

What I will say is don't not vote. This is just my personal view. If you don't vote the fanatics will. They always do.

Even if its a protest vote for the monster raving loony party.

Your vote is the only thing that scares these people.

But I genuinely get where your coming from

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By *immyinreadingMan
over a year ago

henley on thames

"I mull this over a lot and my idea is bat shit crazy but.....

I'm considering starting a political party for ordinary people.

OK laughter over now let's get real.

I'm over 49. and I've never known anything other than Labour or tories to be in power.

Opposition wise to me the lib dems are in effectual as a opposition so all roads will inevitably go back to a Labour or Tory government.

And so the political coin spins and lands on red or blue. With the only effective opposition being the other side of the same coin.

Don't get me wrong there are pressure groups that push for some very worthy and unworthy causes But none of these groups are exclusively to support simple ordinary people.

Labour and Tories say they do. But let's be honest they can't agree which lace to tie first. And even if they did agree. Such an agreement would be constitutionally dangerous.

(By this I mean if the Tories and Labour both agreed an idea. Ie paint all doors red. The law would pass unopposed. We would all have to start painting.)

And so to my point.

1) good idea or bad idea?

2) does anyone know how to start a

New political party?

Please begin"

To start a new political party, you need a new vision / manifesto on how things should be done. What are the polices for this new party and how do they differ from Tory or labour policy?

With labour having lurched to the left and tories having lurched to the right in recent years, there is probably room in the middle, for centrist moderates. I heard Rory Stewart speak on this subject and he was pointing out the issue that it’s hard to get people excited or engaged on being moderate ... much easier to whip people up to be radical, on the fringes.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

I will never vote again in this system.

So, to answer the op's question, no we don't need another, we have quite enough twats already.

Unfortunately, not voting again doesn't help. If anything it helps make things worse.

Look at policies that mean something to you and vote for the lesser of evils, even if that is a party that has no chance of winning.

I hold my nose and vote, but the system needs a complete overhaul.

Democratic upper house

Greater independence of judiciary

Disentangle parliamentary sovereignty from the executive - if not think of a better system

Scrap FPTP

Totally agree. But I can't see it ever happening as it's potentially damaging for the people that need to put it in place.

Oh agreed. They won't change what benefits them.

And so the blatant corruption rumbles on.

Have you considered standing as an independent?

Do you imagine that would work under our current system? How many do stand as independents and how much power do they have?

My energy is better served elsewhere.

Besides, in my seat, the Tories regularly get less votes than the Greens

A cohort of independents would be a lot easier to set up than a whole new party.

I'm not proposing setting up a new party. I'm saying the system is broken.

So is mine and, I would imagine, everyone else who might have an independent voice. I guess that is why we have the leaders we have."

I do plenty politically. I just see no point in trying to fight a losing battle in a rotten system.

This is not on me.

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By *nliveneTV/TS
over a year ago

Selby

I'm forming a new political party with main goal of be the next government party in the next elections and of course myself as a primer minister of England and united Kingdom

who join me?

Fuck Politics Party

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think you've grossly misjudged the supposed unity of ordinary people.

There is a very good reason that in just about every democracy there are two main parties, one on the left and one on the right and that is humans pretty much all fall on that spectrum. We all have slight variations but tend to maintain a fairly stable set of beliefs. For example, if you take a person who is opposed to abortion it's pretty likely that the rest of their political views will be right of centre, if you take someone who volunteers in a soup kitchen it's highly likely their political views are on average more left of centre.

Short term events will sway enough people who are in the centre one way or the other to see a change in which side is leading but by and large the figures remain stable. Older people tend to be more Conservative so countries with a higher percentage of older voters tend to sway to the right (UK, US) countries that have gone through a period of social deprivation are more willing to try the left unless you get strong nationalist politicians. These are able to convince people that the problems they see are caused by "them" - and "they" are almost always either foreigners or minorities so you end up with further right parties.

Much harder is to convince people that they don't actusally need a government but in order to get rid of it they need your party in government to lead them. This used to be easier before Stalin and Mao killed millions and showed the world that while communism sounds great, it doesn't work.

So basically, your political party isn't going to offer anything that hasn't already been offered and isn't already covered at least in part by the existing parties. Being honest and honourable gets you nowhere - all you get is ripped to shreds like Corbyn who is widely despised despite actually being the kind of person most would say they want as a politician (before I get attacked for this I mean a man who doesn't bow to media pressure, is prepared to be unpopular to stand by his beliefs and doesn't take the piss out of the tax payer. You may not like what he says/does but its hard to deny those things). If you can't make it work by being honest you have to make it work by being a politician and then you're no different to all the others, playing a massive popularity contest - a bit like a giant version of Fab forums.

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By *ack688Man
over a year ago

abruzzo Italy (and UK)

Personally I’m opposed to the concept of political parties at all and would happily see that system scrapped, it allows for too much rigging of Parliamentary voting on serious matters through the Whip office removing many politicians desire to vote a certain way on issues.

I would replace this with a system whereby anyone wanting to stand for office does so with their own set of values and opinions and is voted for as an individual rather than as a representative of a party. Each person wanted to stand for office is assigned a fixed budget for campaigns that is identical to anyone else’s, and no other spending on support for that candidate would be allowed.

Then in Parliament, any member can propose a bill, and it is discussed not along party lines but by individual opinion, and is voted for by everyone in the house independently.

However, I can’t see this ever coming to pass as the people who would need to bring this into being have far too great a vested interest in the current situation and would probably have the most to lose by doing so.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I've just been reading some of the responses. So thank you to you all.

Hears my point and there's a question at the end.

I'm fed up with policies from both sides that give the poor a hard time. Some are so palpably bad it's ridiculous. A simple start point.

Putting a giant flower pot in the middle of the road. So in the midst of a pandemic, it's easier to get a pizza through than an ambulance.

In Croydon. They redesigned the roads. But if any of you saw the news, they failed to repair homes with mums and children in them.

Not just fail but fail for years. But the road, though not practical is all pretty and new.

I don't want to start a crusade. But I want ordinary people to not just have a voice, but a voice that is understood.

At present, we are told what we need by our wealthy politicians. And then we are told they will deliver it.

When in fact at ground level, we didn't need it.

Ie as a black British. When did I need bah bah black sheep banned? We didn't. Doing so, to this day caused nothing but animosity.

So. Off my soapbox

I didn't think of standing as an independent. So please tell me more.

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By *ooBulMan
over a year ago

Missin’ Yo’ Kissin’

Why not? The others are not fit for purpose. That's for sure!

However, I'm constantly worried that Tony Blair will pop up as the party Leader of some new party.....

The grinning bafoon hangs around the news outlets like a shitty kling-on round a toilet bowl!

What is this idiots end game? Very worrying!

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Why not? The others are not fit for purpose. That's for sure!

However, I'm constantly worried that Tony Blair will pop up as the party Leader of some new party.....

The grinning bafoon hangs around the news outlets like a shitty kling-on round a toilet bowl!

What is this idiots end game? Very worrying!

Oh my god nooooooo!!!

I never really understood why ex politicians keep doing this. They've had their turn. Its not their problem anymore.

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By *arried-BBW-LookingWoman
over a year ago

fun town

FPTP has to go for starters I’m not a UKIP supporter far from it but in 2017 they had well over 3 million votes yet had 1 seat in the House of Commons the SNP had less votes than that yet had over 50 MPs

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By *oubleswing2019Man
over a year ago

Colchester

Actually, what if I told you we do not need politicians at all ?

All we need are civil servants to keep the wheels turning and enact the policies we vote for ?

Once a year, you log online and vote your priorities for local spending and national spending.

Eg, Local Spending for Colchester Council, in order of priority, highest 1st.

1. Business & Employment

2. Health & Social Care

3. Policing / Crime Prevention

4. Road Infrastructure

5. Housing

6. Waste Disposal

7. Public Transport

8. Flood Defences

9. Education

10. Green / Climate Change Initiatives

You do the same at National Level

1. Business & Employment

2. National Policing

3. Health & Social Care

4. Public Transport/Infrastructure

5. National Defence

6. Science

7. Old Age Provision

8. Green /Climate Change Initiatives

9. Power & Supply

10. Arts / Culture

Then the Super Computer tallies up all the results, nationally and locally, to see where people want their tax monies spent, on what priorities, in which areas.

Politicians are not needed in this scenario. They are superfluous in fact.

All you do need is clerks. Clerks to ensure the money is spent as willed by the local and national populace, and clerks to commission the providers of said services.

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By *inkyeroticaCouple
over a year ago

Ampthill

"Once a year, you log online and vote your priorities for local spending and national spending."

A laudable idea, except for the fact that populist ideas policies aren’t always in the national interest, and severely disadvantage minorities.

Also, there are far more issues than just spending and shit happens during the year.

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By *UGGYBEAR2015Man
over a year ago

BRIDPORT

In answer to the threads title question OP, no, we don’t.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

For real change in politics to happen, people need to show interest and do their own research. There's a lot of media influence especially when elections roll around and a lot of people don't actually know what they are voting for.

A lot of politics is dropping little bombs to fuel narratives and cause divide. When your all pointing the fingers at each other, your not pointing it at them and that is the greatest manipulation of politics.

We do need change but we had our chance in the last election, we blew it.

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By *immyinreadingMan
over a year ago

henley on thames

"Personally I’m opposed to the concept of political parties at all and would happily see that system scrapped, it allows for too much rigging of Parliamentary voting on serious matters through the Whip office removing many politicians desire to vote a certain way on issues.

Then in Parliament, any member can propose a bill, and it is discussed not along party lines but by individual opinion, and is voted for by everyone in the house independently.

As a voter, this doesn’t work for me. I elect an mp who makes up their mind as they go along, rather than against a teamwork of a particular manifesto? Chaos

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I'm forming a new political party with main goal of be the next government party in the next elections and of course myself as a primer minister of England and united Kingdom

who join me?

Fuck Politics Party

For a split second I thought you were serious.

But no.

However I am. So how about you join me.

My second job. Construction.

My income from second job. £15 per hour.

How can an mp really understand what it's like on minimum wage? And then make policies to support these ordinary people?

Yet last year that was me on minimum wage. So I know, because I have lived and breathed the minimum wage struggle. In fact I went to primark and nought the T shirt.

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