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"There are a number of threads running that taken together give a worrying result. We have a woman speaking of her sexless marriage. Now I don't know her circumstances and my personal life influences my feelings. I remember how it feels when the person you love to the core of your being makes you feel utterly rejected and used, even while simultaneously believing they love you. I had a breakdown, I would sit gripping my desk in work so I didn't walk out and kill myself. There was a patch of floor permanently cleaner than the rest in front of the toilet in work where I'd wipe my tears up having sat there crying when I couldn't cope. So when I read this woman's post I have a great deal of sympathy for her - and in general most of the replies exhibit the same. When a man posts this type of thread he is abused by the majority. They concentrate on the wrongness of his behaviour, how he is hurting his wife. I know the guilt, the pain and the confusion that joining Fab as a last resort brings, had I known of and used the forums at that time in my life and asked for help/advise I honestly think some of the replies would have been enough to tip the scales for me. I ask you to read another thread titled Ex, don't just read the OP, read it all, the assumptions made, and the the OP's later clarification of the facts. This is the perfect example of how when a man posts on here of a negative interaction with a woman, the majority assume a status of victimhood for the woman, how any difficulties in her life are the fault of a man while the man is expected to stay strong, be better, be respectful. Someone was even blasted for using the expression 'bore' - has any woman on here been blasted for saying 'fathered?' If we continue to assume in any man/woman interaction the woman is a victim and the man in the wrong - and build mental pictures with no knowledge of the facts to support this, is it surprising that the leading cause of death of middle aged men in several countries is suicide? Why are women allowed to have negative feelings about men and are actively encouraged to express them but a man doing the same is shot down in flames? Why is a woman suffering marital distress offered support and help but a man in the exact same situation labeled a selfish cheat? Mr" Because we are hugely outnumbered mob mentality and all that  | |||
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"There are a number of threads running that taken together give a worrying result. We have a woman speaking of her sexless marriage. Now I don't know her circumstances and my personal life influences my feelings. I remember how it feels when the person you love to the core of your being makes you feel utterly rejected and used, even while simultaneously believing they love you. I had a breakdown, I would sit gripping my desk in work so I didn't walk out and kill myself. There was a patch of floor permanently cleaner than the rest in front of the toilet in work where I'd wipe my tears up having sat there crying when I couldn't cope. So when I read this woman's post I have a great deal of sympathy for her - and in general most of the replies exhibit the same. When a man posts this type of thread he is abused by the majority. They concentrate on the wrongness of his behaviour, how he is hurting his wife. I know the guilt, the pain and the confusion that joining Fab as a last resort brings, had I known of and used the forums at that time in my life and asked for help/advise I honestly think some of the replies would have been enough to tip the scales for me. I ask you to read another thread titled Ex, don't just read the OP, read it all, the assumptions made, and the the OP's later clarification of the facts. This is the perfect example of how when a man posts on here of a negative interaction with a woman, the majority assume a status of victimhood for the woman, how any difficulties in her life are the fault of a man while the man is expected to stay strong, be better, be respectful. Someone was even blasted for using the expression 'bore' - has any woman on here been blasted for saying 'fathered?' If we continue to assume in any man/woman interaction the woman is a victim and the man in the wrong - and build mental pictures with no knowledge of the facts to support this, is it surprising that the leading cause of death of middle aged men in several countries is suicide? Why are women allowed to have negative feelings about men and are actively encouraged to express them but a man doing the same is shot down in flames? Why is a woman suffering marital distress offered support and help but a man in the exact same situation labeled a selfish cheat? Mr" Love this - the suicide rate is high amongst men, we expect them to be strong, but we should also acknowledge that they are vulnerable and deserve compassion xx | |||
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"There are a number of threads running that taken together give a worrying result. We have a woman speaking of her sexless marriage. Now I don't know her circumstances and my personal life influences my feelings. I remember how it feels when the person you love to the core of your being makes you feel utterly rejected and used, even while simultaneously believing they love you. I had a breakdown, I would sit gripping my desk in work so I didn't walk out and kill myself. There was a patch of floor permanently cleaner than the rest in front of the toilet in work where I'd wipe my tears up having sat there crying when I couldn't cope. So when I read this woman's post I have a great deal of sympathy for her - and in general most of the replies exhibit the same. When a man posts this type of thread he is abused by the majority. They concentrate on the wrongness of his behaviour, how he is hurting his wife. I know the guilt, the pain and the confusion that joining Fab as a last resort brings, had I known of and used the forums at that time in my life and asked for help/advise I honestly think some of the replies would have been enough to tip the scales for me. I ask you to read another thread titled Ex, don't just read the OP, read it all, the assumptions made, and the the OP's later clarification of the facts. This is the perfect example of how when a man posts on here of a negative interaction with a woman, the majority assume a status of victimhood for the woman, how any difficulties in her life are the fault of a man while the man is expected to stay strong, be better, be respectful. Someone was even blasted for using the expression 'bore' - has any woman on here been blasted for saying 'fathered?' If we continue to assume in any man/woman interaction the woman is a victim and the man in the wrong - and build mental pictures with no knowledge of the facts to support this, is it surprising that the leading cause of death of middle aged men in several countries is suicide? Why are women allowed to have negative feelings about men and are actively encouraged to express them but a man doing the same is shot down in flames? Why is a woman suffering marital distress offered support and help but a man in the exact same situation labeled a selfish cheat? Mr" This I something I have noticed too and so glad you called it because it happens the Matrix over I always try and rebalance in the threads but often you get jumped on for having that opinion. Also I have noticed groups of people who are friendly away from the forum all jump in to back each other up. Then there are the threads which seem relatively innocent but then people start replying and it's obvious the threads were started as an excuse to vilify men...Men have a rough time around here | |||
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"Sorry OP I don't have enough time this morning to read all of the othee thread. But I do agree with you that men are treated differently to women. Sometimes it's positive to men and others it's negative. We've all thought bad things of others now and again, especially those who have hurt us. " I think that’s the thing - it’s a thought - keep it a thought or share with those close to you, in your personal life. I regularly joke about hoping my ex falls off a cliff. I share this with people close to me, like friends and family and not a bunch of strangers on the internet who I am trying to shag. It’s poor taste. Although shit, now I’ve shared it… | |||
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"Sorry OP I don't have enough time this morning to read all of the othee thread. But I do agree with you that men are treated differently to women. Sometimes it's positive to men and others it's negative. We've all thought bad things of others now and again, especially those who have hurt us. I think that’s the thing - it’s a thought - keep it a thought or share with those close to you, in your personal life. I regularly joke about hoping my ex falls off a cliff. I share this with people close to me, like friends and family and not a bunch of strangers on the internet who I am trying to shag. It’s poor taste. Although shit, now I’ve shared it… " See I guess it depends on how you view it. I have young children with my ex so try as much as humanly possible not to bitch about him. Here is probably a better place for me where it is annomynous. | |||
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"Well said OP ! There shouldn’t be any differences in how these topics are responded to depending on the gender posting the thought. After all we are all human and feel the same emotions. A woman going through a situation like the one you reference in the Ex thread, is no different than how a man would be feeling. Yet the man is normally attacked but the woman gets sympathy, it’s not right in any shape or form. Nothing is black and white, no one’s situation is exactly the same and we only ever hear one side. Maybe people should remove their emotions when responding to certain topics, as these are likely to determine their comments based on their past. A bit of human understanding, willingness to listen would go a long way " Exactly. Also Empathy is a great thing and we should all have it, but it can go too far, you can be lost in that empathy and by that become the "victim" yourself. This puts up barriers and emboldens your view, and limits the brain in being able to think beyond that. | |||
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"Totally true and it’s unacceptable. The sad fact is popular women on here get to post whatever they like without being called out. An unknown man posts the same and gets slated. Same with married cheating threads.. but that’s partly supply and demand too. Women don’t tend to write threads about cheating because they have choice of men regardless.. a recent thread showed that all but 2 men on a thread would actively choose a married woman. Married men who write moaning threads are an easy target when women have so much choice they can choose whether that’s for them or not. When women behave badly it’s rare for them to be called out so it continues… Like anything these things need to be challenged every time they rear their heads. Its not ok. " Oh to be fair, some of us do call it out when we see it, we just then get bored of the "must defend the woman" that follows it (from all genders) as it becomes pointless. But you are correct. | |||
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"I'm glad you've raised this op. There's been a real harsh pack mentality recently and it's usually men that bear the brunt. It's a public forum and a brutal place if you're in a delicate state of mind. " Glad it's not only me who can see the pack mentality...I called it out only to be shot down. Sorry but I say it as I see it | |||
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"A large part of it people tend to be unable to see beyond their own bias. Unable to detach themselves from their personal emotions and view a subject as a whole. Many women will take that emotion and empathy as viewing themselves in such a situation. Viewing the man as the problem against them. Men do it in reverse too. Being too invested in something limits your vision. Causing fairly large acts of hypocrisy. Lots of people like to pick and choose, and can be very loose with their views on things, very selective in what they view as "wrong" to suit themselves. " Yes, this is exactly it. As I said in the OP, my own marriage experience automatically kicks in when I read sexless marriage threads. Personally though (and referring to a later point about empathy) I believe it is fine to allow your own experience to increase your empathy for someone but it is really really important not to allow it to increase negative feelings. If I have negative thoughts of someone's behaviour I try (though don't always succeed) to view that behaviour in isolation based on what I know about their situation, not on what I feel about mine. If, as is often the case, I don't know enough about their situation I may offer general advice or criticism but try to caveat it with a recognition that I may have misunderstood, or don't know enough to offer anything more specific. Ot is easy though to miss your own assumptions. Mr | |||
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"There are a number of threads running that taken together give a worrying result. We have a woman speaking of her sexless marriage. Now I don't know her circumstances and my personal life influences my feelings. I remember how it feels when the person you love to the core of your being makes you feel utterly rejected and used, even while simultaneously believing they love you. I had a breakdown, I would sit gripping my desk in work so I didn't walk out and kill myself. There was a patch of floor permanently cleaner than the rest in front of the toilet in work where I'd wipe my tears up having sat there crying when I couldn't cope. So when I read this woman's post I have a great deal of sympathy for her - and in general most of the replies exhibit the same. When a man posts this type of thread he is abused by the majority. They concentrate on the wrongness of his behaviour, how he is hurting his wife. I know the guilt, the pain and the confusion that joining Fab as a last resort brings, had I known of and used the forums at that time in my life and asked for help/advise I honestly think some of the replies would have been enough to tip the scales for me. I ask you to read another thread titled Ex, don't just read the OP, read it all, the assumptions made, and the the OP's later clarification of the facts. This is the perfect example of how when a man posts on here of a negative interaction with a woman, the majority assume a status of victimhood for the woman, how any difficulties in her life are the fault of a man while the man is expected to stay strong, be better, be respectful. Someone was even blasted for using the expression 'bore' - has any woman on here been blasted for saying 'fathered?' If we continue to assume in any man/woman interaction the woman is a victim and the man in the wrong - and build mental pictures with no knowledge of the facts to support this, is it surprising that the leading cause of death of middle aged men in several countries is suicide? Why are women allowed to have negative feelings about men and are actively encouraged to express them but a man doing the same is shot down in flames? Why is a woman suffering marital distress offered support and help but a man in the exact same situation labeled a selfish cheat? Mr This I something I have noticed too and so glad you called it because it happens the Matrix over I always try and rebalance in the threads but often you get jumped on for having that opinion. Also I have noticed groups of people who are friendly away from the forum all jump in to back each other up. Then there are the threads which seem relatively innocent but then people start replying and it's obvious the threads were started as an excuse to vilify men...Men have a rough time around here " You are a good egg and the fact you stand up for others in the face of criticism does get noticed. Mr | |||
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"There are a number of threads running that taken together give a worrying result. We have a woman speaking of her sexless marriage. Now I don't know her circumstances and my personal life influences my feelings. I remember how it feels when the person you love to the core of your being makes you feel utterly rejected and used, even while simultaneously believing they love you. I had a breakdown, I would sit gripping my desk in work so I didn't walk out and kill myself. There was a patch of floor permanently cleaner than the rest in front of the toilet in work where I'd wipe my tears up having sat there crying when I couldn't cope. So when I read this woman's post I have a great deal of sympathy for her - and in general most of the replies exhibit the same. When a man posts this type of thread he is abused by the majority. They concentrate on the wrongness of his behaviour, how he is hurting his wife. I know the guilt, the pain and the confusion that joining Fab as a last resort brings, had I known of and used the forums at that time in my life and asked for help/advise I honestly think some of the replies would have been enough to tip the scales for me. I ask you to read another thread titled Ex, don't just read the OP, read it all, the assumptions made, and the the OP's later clarification of the facts. This is the perfect example of how when a man posts on here of a negative interaction with a woman, the majority assume a status of victimhood for the woman, how any difficulties in her life are the fault of a man while the man is expected to stay strong, be better, be respectful. Someone was even blasted for using the expression 'bore' - has any woman on here been blasted for saying 'fathered?' If we continue to assume in any man/woman interaction the woman is a victim and the man in the wrong - and build mental pictures with no knowledge of the facts to support this, is it surprising that the leading cause of death of middle aged men in several countries is suicide? Why are women allowed to have negative feelings about men and are actively encouraged to express them but a man doing the same is shot down in flames? Why is a woman suffering marital distress offered support and help but a man in the exact same situation labeled a selfish cheat? Mr" Sadly there is a general mood in society to denigrate men to the point where supposedly sane, respected female politicians start talking about, in parliament, imposing curfews on men! We have our fair share of issues with guys here but know and respect that the majority are decent even though they may not be out type for various reasons. It really isn't acceptable to demonise men whether overtly or not but it is clearly happening and I wonder whether those responsible ever think what problems their attiudes and actions will result in. Will it educate or encourage those men who are a problem to change their ways or will it lead to more men becoming a problem because they feel isolated and generally despised whatever they do? Male suicide is an epidemic yet it's largely ignored by the media and our governments whilst they preach tolerance, understanding and respect to us on a daily basis. Why is that? When it comes to murder and serious violence, being out on our streets is far more dangerous for men than women but we don't get that message from the authorities and men certainly don't get offered apps to help keep them safe. Are we really saying that the majority of men who are decent human beings should be lumped in with the minority who are not? Are we saying that the rights of the majority don't matter because they're men? That's actually what's happening openly and as a consequence of laws in which men are almost presumed guilty until they can prove they're innocent. Is that the deifinition of equality? | |||
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"I read and posted on the Ex thrwsd and I don't think it's as you've described at all. There was a balance of opinions, most of them polite and well put, but it was those supporting the OP which used abusive terms towards their ex partners and other posters." So you didn't notice the assumption that she had aged due to being left the main carer of his child, the assumptions that he expressed these opinions on front of his (assumed to be young) child? I'm not talking about the discussion of whether or not it was nice to post what he did - I recognise your opinion and in general agree with it, as I replied though I don't know his circumstances and I can imagine a situation where I would condone such a post. What I'm complaining about isn't someone's opinion of whether he was right or wrong to post, rather the (totally wrong) assumptions about his and his exes life that painted her as a victim. Mr | |||
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"I think the problem on here is a lot of men either don't care about cheating women or won't voice their true opinion as they don't want to do anything that could prevent them getting meets. Women on the other hand can't be arsed with being on the receiving end of other women's venom by responding negatively. That only leaves the voices of the empathetic. In wider society, people are much more willing to join in calling cheating women sluts and whores. You only need a quick scroll through social media to see how excellent people are at attacking each other." Absolutely spot on. It does actually tend to work both ways. Men can sleep around and will be praised and patted on the back by their friends and nobody bags an eyelid, a woman does it and she’s automatically labelled a whore, damaged goods or something pathetic like “your parents must be proud”. And then men are vilified for cheating whilst women are comforted because “something must’ve been wrong in the relationship”. | |||
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"There are a number of threads running that taken together give a worrying result. We have a woman speaking of her sexless marriage. Now I don't know her circumstances and my personal life influences my feelings. I remember how it feels when the person you love to the core of your being makes you feel utterly rejected and used, even while simultaneously believing they love you. I had a breakdown, I would sit gripping my desk in work so I didn't walk out and kill myself. There was a patch of floor permanently cleaner than the rest in front of the toilet in work where I'd wipe my tears up having sat there crying when I couldn't cope. So when I read this woman's post I have a great deal of sympathy for her - and in general most of the replies exhibit the same. When a man posts this type of thread he is abused by the majority. They concentrate on the wrongness of his behaviour, how he is hurting his wife. I know the guilt, the pain and the confusion that joining Fab as a last resort brings, had I known of and used the forums at that time in my life and asked for help/advise I honestly think some of the replies would have been enough to tip the scales for me. I ask you to read another thread titled Ex, don't just read the OP, read it all, the assumptions made, and the the OP's later clarification of the facts. This is the perfect example of how when a man posts on here of a negative interaction with a woman, the majority assume a status of victimhood for the woman, how any difficulties in her life are the fault of a man while the man is expected to stay strong, be better, be respectful. Someone was even blasted for using the expression 'bore' - has any woman on here been blasted for saying 'fathered?' If we continue to assume in any man/woman interaction the woman is a victim and the man in the wrong - and build mental pictures with no knowledge of the facts to support this, is it surprising that the leading cause of death of middle aged men in several countries is suicide? Why are women allowed to have negative feelings about men and are actively encouraged to express them but a man doing the same is shot down in flames? Why is a woman suffering marital distress offered support and help but a man in the exact same situation labeled a selfish cheat? Mr This I something I have noticed too and so glad you called it because it happens the Matrix over I always try and rebalance in the threads but often you get jumped on for having that opinion. Also I have noticed groups of people who are friendly away from the forum all jump in to back each other up. Then there are the threads which seem relatively innocent but then people start replying and it's obvious the threads were started as an excuse to vilify men...Men have a rough time around here You are a good egg and the fact you stand up for others in the face of criticism does get noticed. Mr" Thank you. It does feel like uphill wading through chocolate at times because the 'popular' posters rarely get called out on the underhand misandry. But I will always say it how I see it | |||
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"I think the problem on here is a lot of men either don't care about cheating women or won't voice their true opinion as they don't want to do anything that could prevent them getting meets. Women on the other hand can't be arsed with being on the receiving end of other women's venom by responding negatively. That only leaves the voices of the empathetic. In wider society, people are much more willing to join in calling cheating women sluts and whores. You only need a quick scroll through social media to see how excellent people are at attacking each other. Absolutely spot on. It does actually tend to work both ways. Men can sleep around and will be praised and patted on the back by their friends and nobody bags an eyelid, a woman does it and she’s automatically labelled a whore, damaged goods or something pathetic like “your parents must be proud”. And then men are vilified for cheating whilst women are comforted because “something must’ve been wrong in the relationship”. " Double standards !!! | |||
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"There are a number of threads running that taken together give a worrying result. We have a woman speaking of her sexless marriage. Now I don't know her circumstances and my personal life influences my feelings. I remember how it feels when the person you love to the core of your being makes you feel utterly rejected and used, even while simultaneously believing they love you. I had a breakdown, I would sit gripping my desk in work so I didn't walk out and kill myself. There was a patch of floor permanently cleaner than the rest in front of the toilet in work where I'd wipe my tears up having sat there crying when I couldn't cope. So when I read this woman's post I have a great deal of sympathy for her - and in general most of the replies exhibit the same. When a man posts this type of thread he is abused by the majority. They concentrate on the wrongness of his behaviour, how he is hurting his wife. I know the guilt, the pain and the confusion that joining Fab as a last resort brings, had I known of and used the forums at that time in my life and asked for help/advise I honestly think some of the replies would have been enough to tip the scales for me. I ask you to read another thread titled Ex, don't just read the OP, read it all, the assumptions made, and the the OP's later clarification of the facts. This is the perfect example of how when a man posts on here of a negative interaction with a woman, the majority assume a status of victimhood for the woman, how any difficulties in her life are the fault of a man while the man is expected to stay strong, be better, be respectful. Someone was even blasted for using the expression 'bore' - has any woman on here been blasted for saying 'fathered?' If we continue to assume in any man/woman interaction the woman is a victim and the man in the wrong - and build mental pictures with no knowledge of the facts to support this, is it surprising that the leading cause of death of middle aged men in several countries is suicide? Why are women allowed to have negative feelings about men and are actively encouraged to express them but a man doing the same is shot down in flames? Why is a woman suffering marital distress offered support and help but a man in the exact same situation labeled a selfish cheat? Mr This I something I have noticed too and so glad you called it because it happens the Matrix over I always try and rebalance in the threads but often you get jumped on for having that opinion. Also I have noticed groups of people who are friendly away from the forum all jump in to back each other up. Then there are the threads which seem relatively innocent but then people start replying and it's obvious the threads were started as an excuse to vilify men...Men have a rough time around here You are a good egg and the fact you stand up for others in the face of criticism does get noticed. Mr Thank you. It does feel like uphill wading through chocolate at times because the 'popular' posters rarely get called out on the underhand misandry. But I will always say it how I see it " And I, for one, thank you for that. | |||
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"There are a number of threads running that taken together give a worrying result. We have a woman speaking of her sexless marriage. Now I don't know her circumstances and my personal life influences my feelings. I remember how it feels when the person you love to the core of your being makes you feel utterly rejected and used, even while simultaneously believing they love you. I had a breakdown, I would sit gripping my desk in work so I didn't walk out and kill myself. There was a patch of floor permanently cleaner than the rest in front of the toilet in work where I'd wipe my tears up having sat there crying when I couldn't cope. So when I read this woman's post I have a great deal of sympathy for her - and in general most of the replies exhibit the same. When a man posts this type of thread he is abused by the majority. They concentrate on the wrongness of his behaviour, how he is hurting his wife. I know the guilt, the pain and the confusion that joining Fab as a last resort brings, had I known of and used the forums at that time in my life and asked for help/advise I honestly think some of the replies would have been enough to tip the scales for me. I ask you to read another thread titled Ex, don't just read the OP, read it all, the assumptions made, and the the OP's later clarification of the facts. This is the perfect example of how when a man posts on here of a negative interaction with a woman, the majority assume a status of victimhood for the woman, how any difficulties in her life are the fault of a man while the man is expected to stay strong, be better, be respectful. Someone was even blasted for using the expression 'bore' - has any woman on here been blasted for saying 'fathered?' If we continue to assume in any man/woman interaction the woman is a victim and the man in the wrong - and build mental pictures with no knowledge of the facts to support this, is it surprising that the leading cause of death of middle aged men in several countries is suicide? Why are women allowed to have negative feelings about men and are actively encouraged to express them but a man doing the same is shot down in flames? Why is a woman suffering marital distress offered support and help but a man in the exact same situation labeled a selfish cheat? Mr This I something I have noticed too and so glad you called it because it happens the Matrix over I always try and rebalance in the threads but often you get jumped on for having that opinion. Also I have noticed groups of people who are friendly away from the forum all jump in to back each other up. Then there are the threads which seem relatively innocent but then people start replying and it's obvious the threads were started as an excuse to vilify men...Men have a rough time around here You are a good egg and the fact you stand up for others in the face of criticism does get noticed. Mr Thank you. It does feel like uphill wading through chocolate at times because the 'popular' posters rarely get called out on the underhand misandry. But I will always say it how I see it And I, for one, thank you for that. " You don't need to thank me, it is about doing the right thing, I'd rather be hated for my attitude and attributes and be true to me rather than have the sycophants revell in my fakeness  | |||
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"I think the problem on here is a lot of men either don't care about cheating women or won't voice their true opinion as they don't want to do anything that could prevent them getting meets. Women on the other hand can't be arsed with being on the receiving end of other women's venom by responding negatively. That only leaves the voices of the empathetic. In wider society, people are much more willing to join in calling cheating women sluts and whores. You only need a quick scroll through social media to see how excellent people are at attacking each other." Dont even have to have a cheating woman to be labelled a slut. All it takes is a sexually liberated woman who doesn’t give it to them because she’s not attracted to them and she becomes the WORST. X | |||
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"I think the problem on here is a lot of men either don't care about cheating women or won't voice their true opinion as they don't want to do anything that could prevent them getting meets. Women on the other hand can't be arsed with being on the receiving end of other women's venom by responding negatively. That only leaves the voices of the empathetic. In wider society, people are much more willing to join in calling cheating women sluts and whores. You only need a quick scroll through social media to see how excellent people are at attacking each other. Absolutely spot on. It does actually tend to work both ways. Men can sleep around and will be praised and patted on the back by their friends and nobody bags an eyelid, a woman does it and she’s automatically labelled a whore, damaged goods or something pathetic like “your parents must be proud”. And then men are vilified for cheating whilst women are comforted because “something must’ve been wrong in the relationship”. " Yes, there absolutely are double standards around sex. I'm talking about a wider issue though than simply cheating or being called a whore. Wherever there is a discussion involving negative feelings/behaviors and a man and a woman, the general consensus is the woman is the victim and the man is the problem. This will include people inventing 'facts' about the situation (see the Ex thread) in order to be able to impose this view. Now I know that there is a serious issue with violence against women, and women are twice as likely to be victims of domestic abuse (said another way, 1/3 of all reported domestic abuse victims are men). This isn't a case though of whataboutery. 12 men kill themselves every day in this country compared to 4 women This isn't going to get better if we all don't improve our ability to listen to men, accept that actually (surprise surprise) they are capable of feelings, that they suffer hurt and pain and sometimes (you know just occasionally) they need support and understanding, not being automatically assumed to be in the wrong and attacked. Mr | |||
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"It's not politically correct to make this statement. Men are always wrong, right?" | |||
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"I think there are a lot of hurt people here that are quick to adapt the attack stance to defend themselves. A Forums sense of seperation away from the actual people allow for that disconnect. The same people talking in real life would hopefully listen more, respond to body language etc and hopefully take a more empathetic approach. The internet can perhaps empower previously voiceless women in expressing the ways they have been hurt. Not saying its right, just a theory. " | |||
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"I think the problem on here is a lot of men either don't care about cheating women or won't voice their true opinion as they don't want to do anything that could prevent them getting meets. Women on the other hand can't be arsed with being on the receiving end of other women's venom by responding negatively. That only leaves the voices of the empathetic. In wider society, people are much more willing to join in calling cheating women sluts and whores. You only need a quick scroll through social media to see how excellent people are at attacking each other. Absolutely spot on. It does actually tend to work both ways. Men can sleep around and will be praised and patted on the back by their friends and nobody bags an eyelid, a woman does it and she’s automatically labelled a whore, damaged goods or something pathetic like “your parents must be proud”. And then men are vilified for cheating whilst women are comforted because “something must’ve been wrong in the relationship”. Yes, there absolutely are double standards around sex. I'm talking about a wider issue though than simply cheating or being called a whore. Wherever there is a discussion involving negative feelings/behaviors and a man and a woman, the general consensus is the woman is the victim and the man is the problem. This will include people inventing 'facts' about the situation (see the Ex thread) in order to be able to impose this view. Now I know that there is a serious issue with violence against women, and women are twice as likely to be victims of domestic abuse (said another way, 1/3 of all reported domestic abuse victims are men). This isn't a case though of whataboutery. 12 men kill themselves every day in this country compared to 4 women This isn't going to get better if we all don't improve our ability to listen to men, accept that actually (surprise surprise) they are capable of feelings, that they suffer hurt and pain and sometimes (you know just occasionally) they need support and understanding, not being automatically assumed to be in the wrong and attacked. Mr" When I was 20 at a carboot I picked up a book for 50p this book changed by view on the perspective of male behaviours. Given my upbringing and subsequent work within mental health, prison and emergency services, there is so much that people assume and generally in favour of the woman and not the entirety of situation. Society has programmed us this way as many have said. The book was the rights of the modern man. I still have the book and often flick through a chapter or two. This book made me look at my behaviour and the part I had or could play in situations. It was also the start of my changing behaviours I acknowledged. As a prison officer listening and reading the background of some of the men I worked with and what lead them to being sentenced for DV (I am not justifiying what they did by any means) but there is often far more than what you see. As rightly pointed those that has been abused by their wives and reported never had any action taken. The first time they raise their hand…. | |||
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"I think the problem on here is a lot of men either don't care about cheating women or won't voice their true opinion as they don't want to do anything that could prevent them getting meets. Women on the other hand can't be arsed with being on the receiving end of other women's venom by responding negatively. That only leaves the voices of the empathetic. In wider society, people are much more willing to join in calling cheating women sluts and whores. You only need a quick scroll through social media to see how excellent people are at attacking each other. Absolutely spot on. It does actually tend to work both ways. Men can sleep around and will be praised and patted on the back by their friends and nobody bags an eyelid, a woman does it and she’s automatically labelled a whore, damaged goods or something pathetic like “your parents must be proud”. And then men are vilified for cheating whilst women are comforted because “something must’ve been wrong in the relationship”. Yes, there absolutely are double standards around sex. I'm talking about a wider issue though than simply cheating or being called a whore. Wherever there is a discussion involving negative feelings/behaviors and a man and a woman, the general consensus is the woman is the victim and the man is the problem. This will include people inventing 'facts' about the situation (see the Ex thread) in order to be able to impose this view. Now I know that there is a serious issue with violence against women, and women are twice as likely to be victims of domestic abuse (said another way, 1/3 of all reported domestic abuse victims are men). This isn't a case though of whataboutery. 12 men kill themselves every day in this country compared to 4 women This isn't going to get better if we all don't improve our ability to listen to men, accept that actually (surprise surprise) they are capable of feelings, that they suffer hurt and pain and sometimes (you know just occasionally) they need support and understanding, not being automatically assumed to be in the wrong and attacked. Mr" Feminism has been says for a long time how gender stereotypes/norms are deeply harmful to both women and men and resulting in precisely some of the issues you talk about but unfortunately people don't want to hear it. I guess something so deeply ingrained in society is going to take a long time to change. | |||
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"Absolutely spot on. It does actually tend to work both ways. Men can sleep around and will be praised and patted on the back by their friends and nobody bags an eyelid, a woman does it and she’s automatically labelled a whore, damaged goods or something pathetic like “your parents must be proud”. And then men are vilified for cheating whilst women are comforted because “something must’ve been wrong in the relationship”. Yes, there absolutely are double standards around sex. I'm talking about a wider issue though than simply cheating or being called a whore. Wherever there is a discussion involving negative feelings/behaviors and a man and a woman, the general consensus is the woman is the victim and the man is the problem. This will include people inventing 'facts' about the situation (see the Ex thread) in order to be able to impose this view. Now I know that there is a serious issue with violence against women, and women are twice as likely to be victims of domestic abuse (said another way, 1/3 of all reported domestic abuse victims are men). This isn't a case though of whataboutery. 12 men kill themselves every day in this country compared to 4 women This isn't going to get better if we all don't improve our ability to listen to men, accept that actually (surprise surprise) they are capable of feelings, that they suffer hurt and pain and sometimes (you know just occasionally) they need support and understanding, not being automatically assumed to be in the wrong and attacked. Mr" I get what you’re saying. Men are seen (and wrongly so) as able to handle anything and should handle anything, they shouldn’t cry, they should “man up” if there’s an issue. Women are delicate human beings who need looking after and comforting… and so on. It’s not one particular thing it stems from decades of conditioning and sadly it’ll take decades to change. | |||
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"There are a number of threads running that taken together give a worrying result. We have a woman speaking of her sexless marriage. Now I don't know her circumstances and my personal life influences my feelings. I remember how it feels when the person you love to the core of your being makes you feel utterly rejected and used, even while simultaneously believing they love you. I had a breakdown, I would sit gripping my desk in work so I didn't walk out and kill myself. There was a patch of floor permanently cleaner than the rest in front of the toilet in work where I'd wipe my tears up having sat there crying when I couldn't cope. So when I read this woman's post I have a great deal of sympathy for her - and in general most of the replies exhibit the same. When a man posts this type of thread he is abused by the majority. They concentrate on the wrongness of his behaviour, how he is hurting his wife. I know the guilt, the pain and the confusion that joining Fab as a last resort brings, had I known of and used the forums at that time in my life and asked for help/advise I honestly think some of the replies would have been enough to tip the scales for me. I ask you to read another thread titled Ex, don't just read the OP, read it all, the assumptions made, and the the OP's later clarification of the facts. This is the perfect example of how when a man posts on here of a negative interaction with a woman, the majority assume a status of victimhood for the woman, how any difficulties in her life are the fault of a man while the man is expected to stay strong, be better, be respectful. Someone was even blasted for using the expression 'bore' - has any woman on here been blasted for saying 'fathered?' If we continue to assume in any man/woman interaction the woman is a victim and the man in the wrong - and build mental pictures with no knowledge of the facts to support this, is it surprising that the leading cause of death of middle aged men in several countries is suicide? Why are women allowed to have negative feelings about men and are actively encouraged to express them but a man doing the same is shot down in flames? Why is a woman suffering marital distress offered support and help but a man in the exact same situation labeled a selfish cheat? Mr" Wow bravo bravo!! For takeing the time thought feelings and a balanced view point from both sides men/women. Way too many judgements are made and Assumptions towards others and Scenario's from snipets of information, rather than ever seeing,looking knowing or even having experienced any real life circumstances or situations of any kind to pass rule over others. Be gentle and mindful. Treat how you really want and wish to be treated by Men and women as a whole.  | |||
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"Sadly it’s not just suicides either. Men are dying from illnesses because they didn’t want to speak up for fear of looking “weak” or having to talk about personal things. Men often don’t like to talk about their health issues and it’s killing them. My dad did just that, hid his symptoms away for months and only decided to open up when it was too late, the cancer had taken over and he died in less than two months of diagnosis. It definitely stems from society brainwashing people into thinking men should shut up and put up, that they should always be strong. " This!! My partner has had a cough for months. It's definitely not Covid. I keep trying to get him to see a Doctor but nope. His dad had lung cancer too. | |||
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"In a way I am proud to say that when I look at posts like the one you mentioned, I take gender out… and would say exactly the same to a woman as I would to a man….. I think I’ve been here long enough where whatever I wrote in reply to a post, I couldn’t give 2 gigs what people thought of it.. You could call it between writing what you believe people would think is right as opposed to writing what you think is correct…. People want to be crowd pleasers to the point of being liked" Thats the way to look at it man | |||
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"You've brought up a subject here that I feel very strongly about OP. Men and women are treated ridiculously differently on fab. And shouldn't be. I don't know what the answer is, because there are so many reasons for it, society being one, and the 100 or so people who actually post in the Lounge aren't going to be able to change that to any major degree even if we all banded together to do it, which given the strong and diverse opinions of some people would never happen. I agree with so many points raised here, and would say that the men who do stick their head above the parapet and have an opinion tend to be those who catch my attention more. I don't know if that's true for other women but I'd say I'm not that unusual. Regarding the issue of "playing away", it's always going to be a sticky subject. Many of us have been hurt by it and some of those will have very strong and sweeping views. That's their call, I'm not judging. But I'm one of those people who looks at the individual situation. Your story broke my heart a little, and I can completely relate to it from my own perspective and that of people I know and have known. There are other stories where I do feel that the person playing away was completely in the wrong. But that's my view, and while entitled to it, I'd not air that view on a public forum or without it being sought. It isn't my place. Slightly off the OP, but it has been brought up so I'll address it, the pack mentality is human. It's not necessarily one of the best parts of humanity but it happens. And it isn't even necessarily (in this forum) between people who talk away from fab. It can just be people of the same opinion feeling like they can share their opinion because someone else has. Assumptions are made and there is little self reflection in those situations. I'm not claiming to be holier than anyone by the way, there are times I've had a bad day and should have stepped away from a thread. And that brings me full circle. Before posting on a subject we feel strongly about, as adults maybe we should all take a moment and reflect on what we are about to say and the reasons behind it. The possible consequences of what we want to say. And perhaps that will change what we say, or at least how we do it and who we affect by doing so. Sorry for the babble. I'll go back to being an inane flirt and annoying people with that now." Thanks NSP - you are often one of the few to view a situation on its merits, not its genders. Plus your firing isn't annoying it is a boost to my "fragile make ego" 
Mr | |||
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"You've brought up a subject here that I feel very strongly about OP. Men and women are treated ridiculously differently on fab. And shouldn't be. I don't know what the answer is, because there are so many reasons for it, society being one, and the 100 or so people who actually post in the Lounge aren't going to be able to change that to any major degree even if we all banded together to do it, which given the strong and diverse opinions of some people would never happen. I agree with so many points raised here, and would say that the men who do stick their head above the parapet and have an opinion tend to be those who catch my attention more. I don't know if that's true for other women but I'd say I'm not that unusual. Regarding the issue of "playing away", it's always going to be a sticky subject. Many of us have been hurt by it and some of those will have very strong and sweeping views. That's their call, I'm not judging. But I'm one of those people who looks at the individual situation. Your story broke my heart a little, and I can completely relate to it from my own perspective and that of people I know and have known. There are other stories where I do feel that the person playing away was completely in the wrong. But that's my view, and while entitled to it, I'd not air that view on a public forum or without it being sought. It isn't my place. Slightly off the OP, but it has been brought up so I'll address it, the pack mentality is human. It's not necessarily one of the best parts of humanity but it happens. And it isn't even necessarily (in this forum) between people who talk away from fab. It can just be people of the same opinion feeling like they can share their opinion because someone else has. Assumptions are made and there is little self reflection in those situations. I'm not claiming to be holier than anyone by the way, there are times I've had a bad day and should have stepped away from a thread. And that brings me full circle. Before posting on a subject we feel strongly about, as adults maybe we should all take a moment and reflect on what we are about to say and the reasons behind it. The possible consequences of what we want to say. And perhaps that will change what we say, or at least how we do it and who we affect by doing so. Sorry for the babble. I'll go back to being an inane flirt and annoying people with that now." | |||
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"I do agree with this. It's widely laughed at when guys are 'hen pecked' There are loads of sit comes based around this too. But if it was the other way round it would be called abuse and the shows cancelled. But if things like this are said then its taken as if to deny what women have largely gone through for years. It's not! Both are just as horrible and it all needs to stop. I was in an abusive relationship for years because I wanted to do 'the right thing' I was controlled, disconnected from friends and in the end made to feel unattractive and useless. Even financially controlled. I didn't leave because I wanted to look after my daughter. I hate abuse and I hate that as a gender/sex that women have had to endure all thay have and still have to as it goes against my beliefs. But I am me, not responsible for what other guys have done in the past, just responsible for now and what I can do to make it a better world. Pre judging is a survival instinct and does help to keep us away from harm, but we still have to look at whats in front of us too. What is really happening in each individual case, if things are truly going to get better " Domestic abuse is horrific against either gender. What men go through is largely ignored and dismissed as an anomaly. Mr | |||
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"I do agree with this. It's widely laughed at when guys are 'hen pecked' There are loads of sit comes based around this too. But if it was the other way round it would be called abuse and the shows cancelled. But if things like this are said then its taken as if to deny what women have largely gone through for years. It's not! Both are just as horrible and it all needs to stop. I was in an abusive relationship for years because I wanted to do 'the right thing' I was controlled, disconnected from friends and in the end made to feel unattractive and useless. Even financially controlled. I didn't leave because I wanted to look after my daughter. I hate abuse and I hate that as a gender/sex that women have had to endure all thay have and still have to as it goes against my beliefs. But I am me, not responsible for what other guys have done in the past, just responsible for now and what I can do to make it a better world. Pre judging is a survival instinct and does help to keep us away from harm, but we still have to look at whats in front of us too. What is really happening in each individual case, if things are truly going to get better Domestic abuse is horrific against either gender. What men go through is largely ignored and dismissed as an anomaly. Mr" It really is. I hate any abuse. It should be good people against bad. Old style. | |||
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"I think the problem on here is a lot of men either don't care about cheating women or won't voice their true opinion as they don't want to do anything that could prevent them getting meets. Women on the other hand can't be arsed with being on the receiving end of other women's venom by responding negatively. That only leaves the voices of the empathetic. In wider society, people are much more willing to join in calling cheating women sluts and whores. You only need a quick scroll through social media to see how excellent people are at attacking each other. Absolutely spot on. It does actually tend to work both ways. Men can sleep around and will be praised and patted on the back by their friends and nobody bags an eyelid, a woman does it and she’s automatically labelled a whore, damaged goods or something pathetic like “your parents must be proud”. And then men are vilified for cheating whilst women are comforted because “something must’ve been wrong in the relationship”. Yes, there absolutely are double standards around sex. I'm talking about a wider issue though than simply cheating or being called a whore. Wherever there is a discussion involving negative feelings/behaviors and a man and a woman, the general consensus is the woman is the victim and the man is the problem. This will include people inventing 'facts' about the situation (see the Ex thread) in order to be able to impose this view. Now I know that there is a serious issue with violence against women, and women are twice as likely to be victims of domestic abuse (said another way, 1/3 of all reported domestic abuse victims are men). This isn't a case though of whataboutery. 12 men kill themselves every day in this country compared to 4 women This isn't going to get better if we all don't improve our ability to listen to men, accept that actually (surprise surprise) they are capable of feelings, that they suffer hurt and pain and sometimes (you know just occasionally) they need support and understanding, not being automatically assumed to be in the wrong and attacked. Mr When I was 20 at a carboot I picked up a book for 50p this book changed by view on the perspective of male behaviours. Given my upbringing and subsequent work within mental health, prison and emergency services, there is so much that people assume and generally in favour of the woman and not the entirety of situation. Society has programmed us this way as many have said. The book was the rights of the modern man. I still have the book and often flick through a chapter or two. This book made me look at my behaviour and the part I had or could play in situations. It was also the start of my changing behaviours I acknowledged. As a prison officer listening and reading the background of some of the men I worked with and what lead them to being sentenced for DV (I am not justifiying what they did by any means) but there is often far more than what you see. As rightly pointed those that has been abused by their wives and reported never had any action taken. The first time they raise their hand…." My step son used to work as a prison officer and now works with the police, some of what he has told me is quite eye opening. Mr | |||
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"A woman put up a superb update yesterday about valuing yourself..waiting for your needs..not to compromise values for needs! Wait! Those needs will be met. Her comment spoke into the whole of life and not a tiny thing in comparison, which is this place! You cannot fit a large object into a smaller hole without loss to it's mass! SO be careful WHAT you are struggling for! Is it worth losing yourself for OR parts of you? " | |||
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"I have witnessed a lot of double standards in life in general which are magnified within the fab "community". I've had to discipline male members of staff for inappropriate language directed at women but have been told not to follow procedure when those same women have been wholly inappropriate in return. The reason given was that they were just trying to fit in. In fab we are all aware of the ladies chat groups which are solely to protect those within them from aggressive or abusive men. However any woman I've ever spoken to on here who had been a member of one of those groups had left because of the level of abuse within the groups as well as the sharing of pics and private info on men they were chatting to. I've seen numerous comments in the forums about girl power and how the women of fab are generally very supportive of each other. However there have also been lots of recent posts from women claiming they have never had an abusive message from guys and every negative issue they have ever had on fab has been with other women. I haven't read either of the threads mentioned here but they are just two examples of how assumptions are made based simply on whether the op is a man or woman. I've been attacked on certain threads for asking if some people are just offering lip service when they say they are supportive. I've also been attacked for asking questions of people claiming that all women are victims and all men agressors. I've been told I'm part of the problem and shouldn't be asking questions but should be helping to fix the issues. How anyone is supposed to do that without asking questions is beyond me. As others have already said, my days of calling people out for their comments are behind me because the pack then switches it's focus to me and I'm not here for that. Many people on here live for drama and a lot of that is self created and quite often the target of their ire will be their new bestie tomorrow. Men and women are equally capable of greatness and nastiness and it's good to know that not everyone is fooled and can see the double standards." | |||
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"I have witnessed a lot of double standards in life in general which are magnified within the fab "community". I've had to discipline male members of staff for inappropriate language directed at women but have been told not to follow procedure when those same women have been wholly inappropriate in return. The reason given was that they were just trying to fit in. In fab we are all aware of the ladies chat groups which are solely to protect those within them from aggressive or abusive men. However any woman I've ever spoken to on here who had been a member of one of those groups had left because of the level of abuse within the groups as well as the sharing of pics and private info on men they were chatting to. I've seen numerous comments in the forums about girl power and how the women of fab are generally very supportive of each other. However there have also been lots of recent posts from women claiming they have never had an abusive message from guys and every negative issue they have ever had on fab has been with other women. I haven't read either of the threads mentioned here but they are just two examples of how assumptions are made based simply on whether the op is a man or woman. I've been attacked on certain threads for asking if some people are just offering lip service when they say they are supportive. I've also been attacked for asking questions of people claiming that all women are victims and all men agressors. I've been told I'm part of the problem and shouldn't be asking questions but should be helping to fix the issues. How anyone is supposed to do that without asking questions is beyond me. As others have already said, my days of calling people out for their comments are behind me because the pack then switches it's focus to me and I'm not here for that. Many people on here live for drama and a lot of that is self created and quite often the target of their ire will be their new bestie tomorrow. Men and women are equally capable of greatness and nastiness and it's good to know that not everyone is fooled and can see the double standards." | |||
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"There are a number of threads running that taken together give a worrying result. We have a woman speaking of her sexless marriage. Now I don't know her circumstances and my personal life influences my feelings. I remember how it feels when the person you love to the core of your being makes you feel utterly rejected and used, even while simultaneously believing they love you. I had a breakdown, I would sit gripping my desk in work so I didn't walk out and kill myself. There was a patch of floor permanently cleaner than the rest in front of the toilet in work where I'd wipe my tears up having sat there crying when I couldn't cope. So when I read this woman's post I have a great deal of sympathy for her - and in general most of the replies exhibit the same. When a man posts this type of thread he is abused by the majority. They concentrate on the wrongness of his behaviour, how he is hurting his wife. I know the guilt, the pain and the confusion that joining Fab as a last resort brings, had I known of and used the forums at that time in my life and asked for help/advise I honestly think some of the replies would have been enough to tip the scales for me. I ask you to read another thread titled Ex, don't just read the OP, read it all, the assumptions made, and the the OP's later clarification of the facts. This is the perfect example of how when a man posts on here of a negative interaction with a woman, the majority assume a status of victimhood for the woman, how any difficulties in her life are the fault of a man while the man is expected to stay strong, be better, be respectful. Someone was even blasted for using the expression 'bore' - has any woman on here been blasted for saying 'fathered?' If we continue to assume in any man/woman interaction the woman is a victim and the man in the wrong - and build mental pictures with no knowledge of the facts to support this, is it surprising that the leading cause of death of middle aged men in several countries is suicide? Why are women allowed to have negative feelings about men and are actively encouraged to express them but a man doing the same is shot down in flames? Why is a woman suffering marital distress offered support and help but a man in the exact same situation labeled a selfish cheat? Mr" Well said Mr and far too often are mens expressions of some troubling situations in their lives are often condemned quite quickly and unfiltered so reading this thread has made me smile in the aspect of a sense of understanding. Thanks Mr | |||
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"I have witnessed a lot of double standards in life in general which are magnified within the fab "community". I've had to discipline male members of staff for inappropriate language directed at women but have been told not to follow procedure when those same women have been wholly inappropriate in return. The reason given was that they were just trying to fit in. In fab we are all aware of the ladies chat groups which are solely to protect those within them from aggressive or abusive men. However any woman I've ever spoken to on here who had been a member of one of those groups had left because of the level of abuse within the groups as well as the sharing of pics and private info on men they were chatting to. I've seen numerous comments in the forums about girl power and how the women of fab are generally very supportive of each other. However there have also been lots of recent posts from women claiming they have never had an abusive message from guys and every negative issue they have ever had on fab has been with other women. I haven't read either of the threads mentioned here but they are just two examples of how assumptions are made based simply on whether the op is a man or woman. I've been attacked on certain threads for asking if some people are just offering lip service when they say they are supportive. I've also been attacked for asking questions of people claiming that all women are victims and all men agressors. I've been told I'm part of the problem and shouldn't be asking questions but should be helping to fix the issues. How anyone is supposed to do that without asking questions is beyond me. As others have already said, my days of calling people out for their comments are behind me because the pack then switches it's focus to me and I'm not here for that. Many people on here live for drama and a lot of that is self created and quite often the target of their ire will be their new bestie tomorrow. Men and women are equally capable of greatness and nastiness and it's good to know that not everyone is fooled and can see the double standards." One of the best posts I've seen in a long time | |||
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"I have witnessed a lot of double standards in life in general which are magnified within the fab "community". I've had to discipline male members of staff for inappropriate language directed at women but have been told not to follow procedure when those same women have been wholly inappropriate in return. The reason given was that they were just trying to fit in. In fab we are all aware of the ladies chat groups which are solely to protect those within them from aggressive or abusive men. However any woman I've ever spoken to on here who had been a member of one of those groups had left because of the level of abuse within the groups as well as the sharing of pics and private info on men they were chatting to. I've seen numerous comments in the forums about girl power and how the women of fab are generally very supportive of each other. However there have also been lots of recent posts from women claiming they have never had an abusive message from guys and every negative issue they have ever had on fab has been with other women. I haven't read either of the threads mentioned here but they are just two examples of how assumptions are made based simply on whether the op is a man or woman. I've been attacked on certain threads for asking if some people are just offering lip service when they say they are supportive. I've also been attacked for asking questions of people claiming that all women are victims and all men agressors. I've been told I'm part of the problem and shouldn't be asking questions but should be helping to fix the issues. How anyone is supposed to do that without asking questions is beyond me. As others have already said, my days of calling people out for their comments are behind me because the pack then switches it's focus to me and I'm not here for that. Many people on here live for drama and a lot of that is self created and quite often the target of their ire will be their new bestie tomorrow. Men and women are equally capable of greatness and nastiness and it's good to know that not everyone is fooled and can see the double standards. One of the best posts I've seen in a long time "Really ? Why ? | |||
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"Love this post " Why ? | |||
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"I do agree with this. It's widely laughed at when guys are 'hen pecked' There are loads of sit comes based around this too. But if it was the other way round it would be called abuse and the shows cancelled. But if things like this are said then its taken as if to deny what women have largely gone through for years. It's not! Both are just as horrible and it all needs to stop. I was in an abusive relationship for years because I wanted to do 'the right thing' I was controlled, disconnected from friends and in the end made to feel unattractive and useless. Even financially controlled. I didn't leave because I wanted to look after my daughter. I hate abuse and I hate that as a gender/sex that women have had to endure all thay have and still have to as it goes against my beliefs. But I am me, not responsible for what other guys have done in the past, just responsible for now and what I can do to make it a better world. Pre judging is a survival instinct and does help to keep us away from harm, but we still have to look at whats in front of us too. What is really happening in each individual case, if things are truly going to get better Domestic abuse is horrific against either gender. What men go through is largely ignored and dismissed as an anomaly. Mr" Then it's up to men to pioneer what they believe in, support and push these issues forward. Have a voice because it matters! More in the media/television has to be done - firmly believe, there definitely isn't enough to teach us! | |||
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"Agreed. Men need to be more vocal about this. Remember where we are, too; a place where women are a hunted commodity and men an overpopulace. (I realise that's not a word!) Men are sycophants because it’s one of the few places that women are in control. Outing oneself as anti-woman equals blue balls. That said, a hell of a lot of incels lurk on Fab." Totally agree men need to be more vocal - that's why you'll see me being flack in the forums for doing just that, it's why I started this thread. Mr | |||
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"I read ALL comments. I didn't count those who had gone off on a tangent to bicker with someone else about something else....... I counted all responses to the O.P. Postive Responses Female 9 Male 2 Negative Responses Female 13 Male 14 Neutral Responses Female 7 Male 3 " I think from the way you've split results by gender you've misunderstood me. This isn't about women attacking men. This is about PEOPLE treating men and women differently and in this particular instance it is clear from your results that the majority of the negativity came from other men. Unlike many, I don't really give a shit about the gender of perpetrators - I care about what people do to other people. Using gender as a correlating factor is no different in my mind to using race or religion. My point is that in any instance where there is a negative interaction between a man and a woman the woman is automatically assumed to be the victim and this would still hold true in an identical situation with reversed genders. Mr | |||
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"Agreed. Men need to be more vocal about this. Remember where we are, too; a place where women are a hunted commodity and men an overpopulace. (I realise that's not a word!) Men are sycophants because it’s one of the few places that women are in control. Outing oneself as anti-woman equals blue balls. That said, a hell of a lot of incels lurk on Fab." Try being vocal on any men’s issues will bring about a lot of resistance. Through out all of our existence as a species men have been disposable. We provide manual labour and bodies to throw at war. Only about 20% of men passed on their genes, when roughly 80% of women did. We don’t matter. People will point at a very few select rich and powerful men and think were all that. The average man doesn’t matter in societies eyes. We are disposable. And that truth comes through in how we are treated | |||
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"OP that's the way the cooky crumbles. Regardless whether people agree or disagree. All we can do is treat people the way we want to be treated" I'm not sure I agree with that. Imagine giving that as an answer to racism or institutional misogyny? Mr | |||
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"Agreed. Men need to be more vocal about this. Remember where we are, too; a place where women are a hunted commodity and men an overpopulace. (I realise that's not a word!) Men are sycophants because it’s one of the few places that women are in control. Outing oneself as anti-woman equals blue balls. That said, a hell of a lot of incels lurk on Fab." I find the ones that do speak out much more attractive though. The ones that don’t worry their opinion may put half the women off. | |||
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"Agreed. Men need to be more vocal about this. Remember where we are, too; a place where women are a hunted commodity and men an overpopulace. (I realise that's not a word!) Men are sycophants because it’s one of the few places that women are in control. Outing oneself as anti-woman equals blue balls. That said, a hell of a lot of incels lurk on Fab." Sometimes just having an opinion is seen as being anti woman even when the complete opposite is true. I've always been an advocate of equality but life has taught me that some people need to be more equal than others. Some men feel the need to apologise on behalf of all men even when they aren't part of the problem. Some women feel that every critical comment made on here is about them personally and play the victim card in private messages even when they have never interacted with the person making the comments. It's impossible to prevent discussions becoming a them and us rant when both men and women often feel they have to speak on behalf of their entire gender rather than as an individual. | |||
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"O.P. Your points don't really stand up. I'm not disputing them entirely however each thread is judged by a different jury... There's too many variables to think that threads can be compared like for like." Yes. | |||
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"Agreed. Men need to be more vocal about this. Remember where we are, too; a place where women are a hunted commodity and men an overpopulace. (I realise that's not a word!) Men are sycophants because it’s one of the few places that women are in control. Outing oneself as anti-woman equals blue balls. That said, a hell of a lot of incels lurk on Fab. I find the ones that do speak out much more attractive though. The ones that don’t worry their opinion may put half the women off. " Agreed. I think I've said it before but it's unbearably unattractive when someone so transparently only pretends to agree with certain things to try to win favour or even worse, straddles the fence on everything as not to put anyone off by having an opinion on anything. It's far better to be attractive to those you align with than mediocre and dull to everyone because you have nothing about you and are just a completely blank slate. | |||
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"I have witnessed a lot of double standards in life in general which are magnified within the fab "community". I've had to discipline male members of staff for inappropriate language directed at women but have been told not to follow procedure when those same women have been wholly inappropriate in return. The reason given was that they were just trying to fit in. In fab we are all aware of the ladies chat groups which are solely to protect those within them from aggressive or abusive men. However any woman I've ever spoken to on here who had been a member of one of those groups had left because of the level of abuse within the groups as well as the sharing of pics and private info on men they were chatting to. I've seen numerous comments in the forums about girl power and how the women of fab are generally very supportive of each other. However there have also been lots of recent posts from women claiming they have never had an abusive message from guys and every negative issue they have ever had on fab has been with other women. I haven't read either of the threads mentioned here but they are just two examples of how assumptions are made based simply on whether the op is a man or woman. I've been attacked on certain threads for asking if some people are just offering lip service when they say they are supportive. I've also been attacked for asking questions of people claiming that all women are victims and all men agressors. I've been told I'm part of the problem and shouldn't be asking questions but should be helping to fix the issues. How anyone is supposed to do that without asking questions is beyond me. As others have already said, my days of calling people out for their comments are behind me because the pack then switches it's focus to me and I'm not here for that. Many people on here live for drama and a lot of that is self created and quite often the target of their ire will be their new bestie tomorrow. Men and women are equally capable of greatness and nastiness and it's good to know that not everyone is fooled and can see the double standards." | |||
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"O.P. Your points don't really stand up. I'm not disputing them entirely however each thread is judged by a different jury... There's too many variables to think that threads can be compared like for like. Yes. "Those threads were just samples and examples. By narrowing down the point of the thread to be just about 2 threads is disrespecting the entire subject. The very fact that so many notice the obvious, and often times attempts at subtle hypocrisy of double standards goes to show it is on a much greater scale than just 2 threads. | |||
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"I have witnessed a lot of double standards in life in general which are magnified within the fab "community". I've had to discipline male members of staff for inappropriate language directed at women but have been told not to follow procedure when those same women have been wholly inappropriate in return. The reason given was that they were just trying to fit in. In fab we are all aware of the ladies chat groups which are solely to protect those within them from aggressive or abusive men. However any woman I've ever spoken to on here who had been a member of one of those groups had left because of the level of abuse within the groups as well as the sharing of pics and private info on men they were chatting to. I've seen numerous comments in the forums about girl power and how the women of fab are generally very supportive of each other. However there have also been lots of recent posts from women claiming they have never had an abusive message from guys and every negative issue they have ever had on fab has been with other women. I haven't read either of the threads mentioned here but they are just two examples of how assumptions are made based simply on whether the op is a man or woman. I've been attacked on certain threads for asking if some people are just offering lip service when they say they are supportive. I've also been attacked for asking questions of people claiming that all women are victims and all men agressors. I've been told I'm part of the problem and shouldn't be asking questions but should be helping to fix the issues. How anyone is supposed to do that without asking questions is beyond me. As others have already said, my days of calling people out for their comments are behind me because the pack then switches it's focus to me and I'm not here for that. Many people on here live for drama and a lot of that is self created and quite often the target of their ire will be their new bestie tomorrow. Men and women are equally capable of greatness and nastiness and it's good to know that not everyone is fooled and can see the double standards. One of the best posts I've seen in a long time
Really ? Why ?"Because it lays bare a number of issues and double standards that I've repeatedly witnessed and at times, myself experienced here. | |||
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"O.P. Your points don't really stand up. I'm not disputing them entirely however each thread is judged by a different jury... There's too many variables to think that threads can be compared like for like. Yes. "I'm with Leo and Granny and I've read both threads. | |||
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"I have witnessed a lot of double standards in life in general which are magnified within the fab "community". I've had to discipline male members of staff for inappropriate language directed at women but have been told not to follow procedure when those same women have been wholly inappropriate in return. The reason given was that they were just trying to fit in. In fab we are all aware of the ladies chat groups which are solely to protect those within them from aggressive or abusive men. However any woman I've ever spoken to on here who had been a member of one of those groups had left because of the level of abuse within the groups as well as the sharing of pics and private info on men they were chatting to. I've seen numerous comments in the forums about girl power and how the women of fab are generally very supportive of each other. However there have also been lots of recent posts from women claiming they have never had an abusive message from guys and every negative issue they have ever had on fab has been with other women. I haven't read either of the threads mentioned here but they are just two examples of how assumptions are made based simply on whether the op is a man or woman. I've been attacked on certain threads for asking if some people are just offering lip service when they say they are supportive. I've also been attacked for asking questions of people claiming that all women are victims and all men agressors. I've been told I'm part of the problem and shouldn't be asking questions but should be helping to fix the issues. How anyone is supposed to do that without asking questions is beyond me. As others have already said, my days of calling people out for their comments are behind me because the pack then switches it's focus to me and I'm not here for that. Many people on here live for drama and a lot of that is self created and quite often the target of their ire will be their new bestie tomorrow. Men and women are equally capable of greatness and nastiness and it's good to know that not everyone is fooled and can see the double standards. One of the best posts I've seen in a long time
Really ? Why ?
Because it lays bare a number of issues and double standards that I've repeatedly witnessed and at times, myself experienced here."Likewise, I have seen that too | |||
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"O.P. Your points don't really stand up. I'm not disputing them entirely however each thread is judged by a different jury... There's too many variables to think that threads can be compared like for like. Yes.
Those threads were just samples and examples. By narrowing down the point of the thread to be just about 2 threads is disrespecting the entire subject.
The very fact that so many notice the obvious, and often times attempts at subtle hypocrisy of double standards goes to show it is on a much greater scale than just 2 threads. "I honestly don't know exactly what the subject is and I found both the OP and many comments to be muddled thinking, throwing all sorts of varied elements into the mix. And the OP chose to focus on two threads, not myself or GC, so your criticism is misplaced. Personally I think comments about a thread, and particularly individual comments, should only be made in that thread where they can be properly replied to. | |||
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"O.P. Your points don't really stand up. I'm not disputing them entirely however each thread is judged by a different jury... There's too many variables to think that threads can be compared like for like. Yes.
Those threads were just samples and examples. By narrowing down the point of the thread to be just about 2 threads is disrespecting the entire subject.
The very fact that so many notice the obvious, and often times attempts at subtle hypocrisy of double standards goes to show it is on a much greater scale than just 2 threads.
I honestly don't know exactly what the subject is and I found both the OP and many comments to be muddled thinking, throwing all sorts of varied elements into the mix.
And the OP chose to focus on two threads, not myself or GC, so your criticism is misplaced. Personally I think comments about a thread, and particularly individual comments, should only be made in that thread where they can be properly replied to."The two threads are simply examples of occasions where I believe if the OP had been of the opposite sex the response would be remarkably different. My thread isn't about any individual comment on either, just the overall impression I got. Tbf, after I mentioned the Ex thread the tone there did change considerably. The lady in the other thread (at the time ?I posted) had recieved a lot of support which I believe is the correct response. I am sure you're aware that this type of thread is regularly posted by men and they invariably get far less support and far more abuse. I have been in a very similar situation to the OP in that thread and found it incredibly hard to live through to the point I spent months dealing with suicidal thoughts. During that time had I recieved the usual response men get on that type of thread instead of the support and helpful comments she got given I am not sure I could have coped. I dislike the double standards so often displayed on these forums - and from the majority of responses today it seems I'm not entirely alone. I honestly think that because you were one of those who expressed a negative opinion against the man on the Ex thread you have become defective and taken this thread as an attack on you. It isn't. You're entitled to your opinion, whether or not I agree with it. The issue isn't about me agreeing with individual comments, it is the hypocrisy that is shown by some and the effect this can have. Mr | |||
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"I read ALL comments. I didn't count those who had gone off on a tangent to bicker with someone else about something else....... I counted all responses to the O.P. Postive Responses Female 9 Male 2 Negative Responses Female 13 Male 14 Neutral Responses Female 7 Male 3 I think from the way you've split results by gender you've misunderstood me. This isn't about women attacking men. This is about PEOPLE treating men and women differently and in this particular instance it is clear from your results that the majority of the negativity came from other men. Unlike many, I don't really give a shit about the gender of perpetrators - I care about what people do to other people. Using gender as a correlating factor is no different in my mind to using race or religion. My point is that in any instance where there is a negative interaction between a man and a woman the woman is automatically assumed to be the victim and this would still hold true in an identical situation with reversed genders. Mr" I understood you. Perfectly. My post wasn't about you or directed at you or anything you said. | |||
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" I honestly think that because you were one of those who expressed a negative opinion against the man on the Ex thread you have become defective and taken this thread as an attack on you. It isn't. You're entitled to your opinion, whether or not I agree with it. The issue isn't about me agreeing with individual comments, it is the hypocrisy that is shown by some and the effect this can have. Mr" I'm sure I am defective, but defensive no.  | |||
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"This is a very long and heavy psychological process that relates to how we/society view women as emotional, weaker and in often parts; victims. Whereas men are often the aggressors in situations. If we then throw in the fab dynamics and power differentials, where guys (especially single guys) are seen as disposable and often unwanted, then people will often direct hatred, vitriol or dismissal at them. Irrespective of the reality or truth of situations. The assumption of guilt is often very strong. I agree that it’s wrong, I agree that there is a direct imbalance in how some people are treated or treat others. I’m not sure what the answer is though or if there is one. A trite ‘be kind’ is pointless and often people rely on assumptions to avoid long drawn out reflections, which many simply don’t want to do. " It extends to double standards in other behaviour i have observed and been uncomfortable about too: eg a girl coming up and kissing a guy without his consent, he wasnt into it and was really uncomfortable but didnt want to cause a scene, didnt want to offend her, excused her cos she was d*unk etc ... it was like terrible role reversal. and another scenario, s very d*unk woman at an event needed holding up all night long, pestering people, knocking things over etc but not asked to leave. These are things men would get a much tougher time over. | |||
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" I honestly think that because you were one of those who expressed a negative opinion against the man on the Ex thread you have become defective and taken this thread as an attack on you. It isn't. You're entitled to your opinion, whether or not I agree with it. The issue isn't about me agreeing with individual comments, it is the hypocrisy that is shown by some and the effect this can have. Mr I'm sure I am defective, but defensive no. " bloody auto correct.
OK, I misread your posts then. My apologies.
Mr | |||
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"I read ALL comments. I didn't count those who had gone off on a tangent to bicker with someone else about something else....... I counted all responses to the O.P. Postive Responses Female 9 Male 2 Negative Responses Female 13 Male 14 Neutral Responses Female 7 Male 3 I think from the way you've split results by gender you've misunderstood me. This isn't about women attacking men. This is about PEOPLE treating men and women differently and in this particular instance it is clear from your results that the majority of the negativity came from other men. Unlike many, I don't really give a shit about the gender of perpetrators - I care about what people do to other people. Using gender as a correlating factor is no different in my mind to using race or religion. My point is that in any instance where there is a negative interaction between a man and a woman the woman is automatically assumed to be the victim and this would still hold true in an identical situation with reversed genders. Mr I understood you. Perfectly. My post wasn't about you or directed at you or anything you said. " Then I have failed to understand you. Mr | |||
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" I honestly think that because you were one of those who expressed a negative opinion against the man on the Ex thread you have become defective and taken this thread as an attack on you. It isn't. You're entitled to your opinion, whether or not I agree with it. The issue isn't about me agreeing with individual comments, it is the hypocrisy that is shown by some and the effect this can have. Mr I'm sure I am defective, but defensive no.
bloody auto correct.
OK, I misread your posts then. My apologies.
Mr"Thanks. I enjoyed the thread whether I agreed with the comments or not. Lots to ponder which is always a good sign. | |||
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