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"So you want to talk about racism is a good read. She has a tendency to extrapolate her personal experience to everyone and whilst admitting her own biases and default stereotypes doesn't make the mental leap to realising that these are actually the very same kind of thing as the problems she sees in others. Still it is a thought provoking book and doed a very good job at explaining privilege. Mr"  | |||
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"There’s an interesting article called ‘Straight White Male: The Lowest Difficulty Setting There Is’ (pop it into a search engine and it should come up) Interestingly enough when I put it to my teenage son, he expressed the opinion that straight white male is a label that’s now used to look down on those it applies to because of the recognised privilege attached to it" Privileged? We used to shit in a bucket. | |||
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"There’s an interesting article called ‘Straight White Male: The Lowest Difficulty Setting There Is’ (pop it into a search engine and it should come up) Interestingly enough when I put it to my teenage son, he expressed the opinion that straight white male is a label that’s now used to look down on those it applies to because of the recognised privilege attached to it" I got curious and Google it. It was rather disappointing: someone voicing their opinion without explaining why they think that. I was hoping for some sort of reasoning I could either relate to or argue with. Alas there was little substance. | |||
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"There’s an interesting article called ‘Straight White Male: The Lowest Difficulty Setting There Is’ (pop it into a search engine and it should come up) Interestingly enough when I put it to my teenage son, he expressed the opinion that straight white male is a label that’s now used to look down on those it applies to because of the recognised privilege attached to it" Please send me a list of the recognised privileges, mine isn't working. | |||
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"There’s an interesting article called ‘Straight White Male: The Lowest Difficulty Setting There Is’ (pop it into a search engine and it should come up) Interestingly enough when I put it to my teenage son, he expressed the opinion that straight white male is a label that’s now used to look down on those it applies to because of the recognised privilege attached to it Please send me a list of the recognised privileges, mine isn't working." Privileges aren't a list that everyone in a certain demographic gets access to automatically. Its recognition that on average, members of certain groups are more likely to recieve certain benefits in life and less likely to face certain challenges. Over time these small effects add up and cumulatively result in significant differences. The fact that Barack Obama became a black president while poor white people die with no healthcare (to use an example from the US) doesn't change the statistics that put black people in that country at the bottom of the social pile. The correct question isn't what privileges am I missing out on but rather what privileges do I have that some don't? To use my life as an example, I could say I am the son of relatively poor working class parents and everything I have is due to my hard work - on the surface many would agree but that isn't quite true. I had a stable home as a child, a mother who stayed at home instead of having to work. I entered school already able to read at a higher than average standard. My 11 plus result was in the top 10% and I was lucky enough to live in a town with a grammar school. Even without trying hard in school (and I didn't) I hit the employment market with good grades from a well respected school and was offered both of the first two jobs I applied for. Despite living in what even then was a very multicultural area, my year at school had 1 black kid and only a couple of kids from n other ethnic minorities. Now either you have to argue that this demonstrates that white people are on average more intelligent or (far more correctly) understand there is another cause. Even by the age of 11 I was already ahead of many of my peers, not through any thing I had done but purely through luck in the genetic lottery. Growing up in poverty with no parents at home due to working constantly it is unlikely you'll enter school with a head start, you'll not have support at home to help with home work, your nutrition is likely to be poor leading to slower brain development etc etc. Of course there are some who move on from this type of background but it will be far fewer than those who succeed having been born into a life of plenty. This luck has followed me through life. A good apprenticeship (remember I had a choice of jobs) led to my next company taking a chance on me and offering me a job even though I didn't have the necessary experience. When I look back, sure I can say I have worked hard to be where I am but I'm also very aware that without a number of opportunities that I barely had to fight for I likely wouldn't have achieved what I have. A thread like this is not really the best place to present this idea but luckily there is plenty on info out there. The book I mentioned above has a very good chapter on privilege. Mr | |||
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"I personally don’t think this privilege thing has any scientific basis. Too many factors affect success and failure. One generation ago my parents siblings died of TB. They went hungry. You can’t say until the were val of the wind rush generation they had privilege. They were bottom drawer. " I don’t expect to get anywhere by presenting this here, but here we go: The idea of white privilege is very simple; it states that whatever you have been through, had you been black instead of white then things would have been even harder for you | |||
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"I personally don’t think this privilege thing has any scientific basis. Too many factors affect success and failure. One generation ago my parents siblings died of TB. They went hungry. You can’t say until the were val of the wind rush generation they had privilege. They were bottom drawer. I don’t expect to get anywhere by presenting this here, but here we go: The idea of white privilege is very simple; it states that whatever you have been through, had you been black instead of white then things would have been even harder for you" I appreciate that. It states but is largely based on assumption. Also what is true in the US isn’t necessarily the same in the U.K. | |||
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"I personally don’t think this privilege thing has any scientific basis. Too many factors affect success and failure. One generation ago my parents siblings died of TB. They went hungry. You can’t say until the were val of the wind rush generation they had privilege. They were bottom drawer. I don’t expect to get anywhere by presenting this here, but here we go: The idea of white privilege is very simple; it states that whatever you have been through, had you been black instead of white then things would have been even harder for you" does this need to be caveated with "when you are in a white majority country"? I don't know but the original white privalage article read as a combination of class privalage and being a majority privalage. I think where ppl struggle with all this is ranking in their heads which privalages have more weight. Eg would you rather be poor, white, straight male, or a rich, bisexual, black female ... Which has more privalage? (My gut feeling is money matters the most. But I'm a class warrior!) And does it matter where you live ? And finally, what other privalages are we missing ? Accents, cis, extroversion etc. Do we manage what can be measured and so alienate otehrs ? | |||
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"I personally don’t think this privilege thing has any scientific basis. Too many factors affect success and failure. One generation ago my parents siblings died of TB. They went hungry. You can’t say until the were val of the wind rush generation they had privilege. They were bottom drawer. I don’t expect to get anywhere by presenting this here, but here we go: The idea of white privilege is very simple; it states that whatever you have been through, had you been black instead of white then things would have been even harder for you" Could you explain how the six million white European Jews massacred by the Nazis in WW2 benefitted from this "white privilege"? Would they have been gassed, poisoned, shot, hanged etc a bit "harder" if they were black? | |||
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"White Fragility: Why It’s So Hard for White People to Talk about Racism Haven't read it. But I am guessing this should be proper woke based on one of her interviews." This thread is revealing. And will shed some light on that title. | |||
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"I personally don’t think this privilege thing has any scientific basis. Too many factors affect success and failure. One generation ago my parents siblings died of TB. They went hungry. You can’t say until the were val of the wind rush generation they had privilege. They were bottom drawer. I don’t expect to get anywhere by presenting this here, but here we go: The idea of white privilege is very simple; it states that whatever you have been through, had you been black instead of white then things would have been even harder for you Could you explain how the six million white European Jews massacred by the Nazis in WW2 benefitted from this "white privilege"? Would they have been gassed, poisoned, shot, hanged etc a bit "harder" if they were black?" Who said they did? | |||
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"I’m having a rant… here goes It amuses me the very people who complain about woke are themselves righteous arrogant racist, homophobic, transphobic, Islamipobic, any phobic, people they claim not to be. The same people rather then live their lives, stick their head up like a meerkat, complaining about change. The very same people who’ll complain about anything and everything. The type that will travel abroad and complain that there’s too many foreigners on their holiday. Woke is a mirror held up, asking for change and respect. There are militant types in all organisations. The people who complain about woke, you’re a laggard, a vocal minority that old age will ensure you’re voice is heard less and less, as the nursing homes you will need and want in the coming years will remain empty thanks to your Brexit. Rant over. " But extreme and a bit personal too. Fortunately my wife is black and doesn’t fit any ideas you may have of how she fits into life. Descended from the Maroons she is feisty and independent. She like her family do not see much similarity between her Jamaican heritage and that of a Somali say. Black is many shades and many experiences. Woke makes many whites feel they care when all they do is complicate simple human relations. | |||
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"I personally don’t think this privilege thing has any scientific basis. Too many factors affect success and failure. One generation ago my parents siblings died of TB. They went hungry. You can’t say until the were val of the wind rush generation they had privilege. They were bottom drawer. I don’t expect to get anywhere by presenting this here, but here we go: The idea of white privilege is very simple; it states that whatever you have been through, had you been black instead of white then things would have been even harder for you Could you explain how the six million white European Jews massacred by the Nazis in WW2 benefitted from this "white privilege"? Would they have been gassed, poisoned, shot, hanged etc a bit "harder" if they were black?" There are resources out there exploring Jews in the Holocaust and the idea of white privilege as you mention. It’s everybody’s responsibility to educate themselves on what they want to be educated on, we’re fortunate to live in an age of lots of freely available information. | |||
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"I’m having a rant… here goes Fortunately my wife is black and doesn’t fit any ideas you may have of how she fits into life. ." That good old trope… my wife is black, my mate is gay, my neighbour is polish and he’s alright. Yeah abdullah he’s a nice guy but but but It simply doesn’t wash mate. Time to woke up and smell the coffee. | |||
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"I’m having a rant… here goes Fortunately my wife is black and doesn’t fit any ideas you may have of how she fits into life. . That good old trope… my wife is black, my mate is gay, my neighbour is polish and he’s alright. Yeah abdullah he’s a nice guy but but but It simply doesn’t wash mate. Time to woke up and smell the coffee. " Hilarious. Cynical though. I need not prove what is blatantly true. | |||
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"I’m having a rant… here goes Fortunately my wife is black and doesn’t fit any ideas you may have of how she fits into life. . That good old trope… my wife is black, my mate is gay, my neighbour is polish and he’s alright. Yeah abdullah he’s a nice guy but but but It simply doesn’t wash mate. Time to woke up and smell the coffee. Hilarious. Cynical though. I need not prove what is blatantly true. " Because you’re really unable to formulate an argument. Have you surrendered so quickly ? | |||
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"I’m having a rant… here goes Fortunately my wife is black and doesn’t fit any ideas you may have of how she fits into life. . That good old trope… my wife is black, my mate is gay, my neighbour is polish and he’s alright. Yeah abdullah he’s a nice guy but but but It simply doesn’t wash mate. Time to woke up and smell the coffee. Hilarious. Cynical though. I need not prove what is blatantly true. Because you’re really unable to formulate an argument. Have you surrendered so quickly ?" You’ve shut down any debate by sticking your head in the sand. I don’t want to hear is what you are seemingly saying. Makes any debate on this type of thing tedious and nonsensical. | |||
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"White Fragility: Why It’s So Hard for White People to Talk about Racism Haven't read it. But I am guessing this should be proper woke based on one of her interviews. This thread is revealing. And will shed some light on that title. " To be honest, most arguments made by the author were just kafka traps. She basically shuts down every debate by saying that "You are arguing against my point because you are white and fragile and thereby proving the point I made in the book." Load of nonsense if you ask me. | |||
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"I personally don’t think this privilege thing has any scientific basis. Too many factors affect success and failure. One generation ago my parents siblings died of TB. They went hungry. You can’t say until the were val of the wind rush generation they had privilege. They were bottom drawer. I don’t expect to get anywhere by presenting this here, but here we go: The idea of white privilege is very simple; it states that whatever you have been through, had you been black instead of white then things would have been even harder for you Could you explain how the six million white European Jews massacred by the Nazis in WW2 benefitted from this "white privilege"? Would they have been gassed, poisoned, shot, hanged etc a bit "harder" if they were black?" They very possibly would not have been gassed, poisoned, shot, hanged etc at all if they had been blond haired, blue eyed, uncircumcised, and with three generations of similar ancestors. "White privilege" is not an absolute thing - skin is white therefore automatically got 6 numbers in the lottery. More like skin is white gives you one number in the lottery, skin is slightly dusky gives you a near miss on a number. Being the "right" religion might give you another number. Being disabled takes away a number that you might have otherwise got. Having the right parents who know the right people can give you 3 numbers straight away. Being transgender will take two numbers off you. In most countries, being male will give you at least one free number; in some countries being female can disallow you from even being able to enter the lottery, your only hope then is to get taken in by a man that does have some of the winning numbers. Etc. It's called intersectionality, how various types of privilege and disadvantage act together. So white skin is not an automatic lottery win, but it's generally one number closer to winning than not having white skin. | |||
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"I personally don’t think this privilege thing has any scientific basis. Too many factors affect success and failure. One generation ago my parents siblings died of TB. They went hungry. You can’t say until the were val of the wind rush generation they had privilege. They were bottom drawer. I don’t expect to get anywhere by presenting this here, but here we go: The idea of white privilege is very simple; it states that whatever you have been through, had you been black instead of white then things would have been even harder for you Could you explain how the six million white European Jews massacred by the Nazis in WW2 benefitted from this "white privilege"? Would they have been gassed, poisoned, shot, hanged etc a bit "harder" if they were black? There are resources out there exploring Jews in the Holocaust and the idea of white privilege as you mention. It’s everybody’s responsibility to educate themselves on what they want to be educated on, we’re fortunate to live in an age of lots of freely available information." It's a shame the Labour party didn't avail themselves of any of these freely available resources before they were found guilty of anti-semitism by the European Court of Human Rights in 2019/2020. | |||
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"White Fragility: Why It’s So Hard for White People to Talk about Racism Haven't read it. But I am guessing this should be proper woke based on one of her interviews. This thread is revealing. And will shed some light on that title. To be honest, most arguments made by the author were just kafka traps. She basically shuts down every debate by saying that "You are arguing against my point because you are white and fragile and thereby proving the point I made in the book." Load of nonsense if you ask me." Sounds almost Orwellian. Orwell a left wing hero who discovered the extreme left in the Spanish Civil War hated the moderate left the most. Right was very clearly wrong and best dealt with by a bullet in the neck. | |||
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"I personally don’t think this privilege thing has any scientific basis. Too many factors affect success and failure. One generation ago my parents siblings died of TB. They went hungry. You can’t say until the were val of the wind rush generation they had privilege. They were bottom drawer. I don’t expect to get anywhere by presenting this here, but here we go: The idea of white privilege is very simple; it states that whatever you have been through, had you been black instead of white then things would have been even harder for you Could you explain how the six million white European Jews massacred by the Nazis in WW2 benefitted from this "white privilege"? Would they have been gassed, poisoned, shot, hanged etc a bit "harder" if they were black? There are resources out there exploring Jews in the Holocaust and the idea of white privilege as you mention. It’s everybody’s responsibility to educate themselves on what they want to be educated on, we’re fortunate to live in an age of lots of freely available information. It's a shame the Labour party didn't avail themselves of any of these freely available resources before they were found guilty of anti-semitism by the European Court of Human Rights in 2019/2020. " Sadly we are surrounded by an ocean of antisemites. I fear other Parties have just been better at hiding their skeletons. | |||
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"I’m having a rant… here goes Fortunately my wife is black and doesn’t fit any ideas you may have of how she fits into life. . That good old trope… my wife is black, my mate is gay, my neighbour is polish and he’s alright. Yeah abdullah he’s a nice guy but but but It simply doesn’t wash mate. Time to woke up and smell the coffee. Hilarious. Cynical though. I need not prove what is blatantly true. Because you’re really unable to formulate an argument. Have you surrendered so quickly ? You’ve shut down any debate by sticking your head in the sand. I don’t want to hear is what you are seemingly saying. Makes any debate on this type of thing tedious and nonsensical." Sorry if you took my comment personally and haven’t been able to recover from the ordeal. Tedious to you is real life for millions of Britons. It’s a privilege to ignore it. | |||
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"I’m having a rant… here goes Fortunately my wife is black and doesn’t fit any ideas you may have of how she fits into life. . That good old trope… my wife is black, my mate is gay, my neighbour is polish and he’s alright. Yeah abdullah he’s a nice guy but but but It simply doesn’t wash mate. Time to woke up and smell the coffee. Hilarious. Cynical though. I need not prove what is blatantly true. Because you’re really unable to formulate an argument. Have you surrendered so quickly ? You’ve shut down any debate by sticking your head in the sand. I don’t want to hear is what you are seemingly saying. Makes any debate on this type of thing tedious and nonsensical. Sorry if you took my comment personally and haven’t been able to recover from the ordeal. Tedious to you is real life for millions of Britons. It’s a privilege to ignore it. " Not really sensible. Democracy gives me that right. Deal with it. | |||
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"White Fragility: Why It’s So Hard for White People to Talk about Racism Haven't read it. But I am guessing this should be proper woke based on one of her interviews. This thread is revealing. And will shed some light on that title. To be honest, most arguments made by the author were just kafka traps. She basically shuts down every debate by saying that "You are arguing against my point because you are white and fragile and thereby proving the point I made in the book." Load of nonsense if you ask me. Sounds almost Orwellian. Orwell a left wing hero who discovered the extreme left in the Spanish Civil War hated the moderate left the most. Right was very clearly wrong and best dealt with by a bullet in the neck." Interesting. I don't know about Orwell's personal political leanings. But his books seem to mostly attack the authoritarian left than the right. | |||
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" And positive discrimination is not an answer too. " There is a reason why positive discrimination works and is needed. If you don’t know then your opinion is seriously flawed. | |||
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"White Fragility: Why It’s So Hard for White People to Talk about Racism Haven't read it. But I am guessing this should be proper woke based on one of her interviews. This thread is revealing. And will shed some light on that title. To be honest, most arguments made by the author were just kafka traps. She basically shuts down every debate by saying that "You are arguing against my point because you are white and fragile and thereby proving the point I made in the book." Load of nonsense if you ask me. Sounds almost Orwellian. Orwell a left wing hero who discovered the extreme left in the Spanish Civil War hated the moderate left the most. Right was very clearly wrong and best dealt with by a bullet in the neck. Interesting. I don't know about Orwell's personal political leanings. But his books seem to mostly attack the authoritarian left than the right." He was left by any sensible definition but knew Soviet Leftism was totalitarian. The fact that even the most loyal of party members sat with the threat of death by denouncement at any moment. He had been a policeman in Burma and once said he’d happily drive a bayonet into the guts of a Buddhist monk. His words not mine. | |||
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"I’m having a rant… here goes Fortunately my wife is black and doesn’t fit any ideas you may have of how she fits into life. . That good old trope… my wife is black, my mate is gay, my neighbour is polish and he’s alright. Yeah abdullah he’s a nice guy but but but It simply doesn’t wash mate. Time to woke up and smell the coffee. Hilarious. Cynical though. I need not prove what is blatantly true. Because you’re really unable to formulate an argument. Have you surrendered so quickly ? You’ve shut down any debate by sticking your head in the sand. I don’t want to hear is what you are seemingly saying. Makes any debate on this type of thing tedious and nonsensical. Sorry if you took my comment personally and haven’t been able to recover from the ordeal. Tedious to you is real life for millions of Britons. It’s a privilege to ignore it. Not really sensible. Democracy gives me that right. Deal with it." And the old British Bulldog spirit meows | |||
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"I personally don’t think this privilege thing has any scientific basis. Too many factors affect success and failure. One generation ago my parents siblings died of TB. They went hungry. You can’t say until the were val of the wind rush generation they had privilege. They were bottom drawer. I don’t expect to get anywhere by presenting this here, but here we go: The idea of white privilege is very simple; it states that whatever you have been through, had you been black instead of white then things would have been even harder for you Could you explain how the six million white European Jews massacred by the Nazis in WW2 benefitted from this "white privilege"? Would they have been gassed, poisoned, shot, hanged etc a bit "harder" if they were black? There are resources out there exploring Jews in the Holocaust and the idea of white privilege as you mention. It’s everybody’s responsibility to educate themselves on what they want to be educated on, we’re fortunate to live in an age of lots of freely available information. It's a shame the Labour party didn't avail themselves of any of these freely available resources before they were found guilty of anti-semitism by the European Court of Human Rights in 2019/2020. Sadly we are surrounded by an ocean of antisemites. I fear other Parties have just been better at hiding their skeletons. " Ah, the old "everyone else probably does it too, so we'll down-play it". Does that excuse work for anti-black racism as well? | |||
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"I’m having a rant… here goes Fortunately my wife is black and doesn’t fit any ideas you may have of how she fits into life. . That good old trope… my wife is black, my mate is gay, my neighbour is polish and he’s alright. Yeah abdullah he’s a nice guy but but but It simply doesn’t wash mate. Time to woke up and smell the coffee. Hilarious. Cynical though. I need not prove what is blatantly true. Because you’re really unable to formulate an argument. Have you surrendered so quickly ? You’ve shut down any debate by sticking your head in the sand. I don’t want to hear is what you are seemingly saying. Makes any debate on this type of thing tedious and nonsensical. Sorry if you took my comment personally and haven’t been able to recover from the ordeal. Tedious to you is real life for millions of Britons. It’s a privilege to ignore it. Not really sensible. Democracy gives me that right. Deal with it. And the old British Bulldog spirit meows" You debate with spite. | |||
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"I personally don’t think this privilege thing has any scientific basis. Too many factors affect success and failure. One generation ago my parents siblings died of TB. They went hungry. You can’t say until the were val of the wind rush generation they had privilege. They were bottom drawer. I don’t expect to get anywhere by presenting this here, but here we go: The idea of white privilege is very simple; it states that whatever you have been through, had you been black instead of white then things would have been even harder for you Could you explain how the six million white European Jews massacred by the Nazis in WW2 benefitted from this "white privilege"? Would they have been gassed, poisoned, shot, hanged etc a bit "harder" if they were black? They very possibly would not have been gassed, poisoned, shot, hanged etc at all if they had been blond haired, blue eyed, uncircumcised, and with three generations of similar ancestors. "White privilege" is not an absolute thing - skin is white therefore automatically got 6 numbers in the lottery. More like skin is white gives you one number in the lottery, skin is slightly dusky gives you a near miss on a number. Being the "right" religion might give you another number. Being disabled takes away a number that you might have otherwise got. Having the right parents who know the right people can give you 3 numbers straight away. Being transgender will take two numbers off you. In most countries, being male will give you at least one free number; in some countries being female can disallow you from even being able to enter the lottery, your only hope then is to get taken in by a man that does have some of the winning numbers. Etc. It's called intersectionality, how various types of privilege and disadvantage act together. So white skin is not an automatic lottery win, but it's generally one number closer to winning than not having white skin." I really like that analogy!  | |||
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"I personally don’t think this privilege thing has any scientific basis. Too many factors affect success and failure. One generation ago my parents siblings died of TB. They went hungry. You can’t say until the were val of the wind rush generation they had privilege. They were bottom drawer. I don’t expect to get anywhere by presenting this here, but here we go: The idea of white privilege is very simple; it states that whatever you have been through, had you been black instead of white then things would have been even harder for you Could you explain how the six million white European Jews massacred by the Nazis in WW2 benefitted from this "white privilege"? Would they have been gassed, poisoned, shot, hanged etc a bit "harder" if they were black? There are resources out there exploring Jews in the Holocaust and the idea of white privilege as you mention. It’s everybody’s responsibility to educate themselves on what they want to be educated on, we’re fortunate to live in an age of lots of freely available information. It's a shame the Labour party didn't avail themselves of any of these freely available resources before they were found guilty of anti-semitism by the European Court of Human Rights in 2019/2020. Sadly we are surrounded by an ocean of antisemites. I fear other Parties have just been better at hiding their skeletons. Ah, the old "everyone else probably does it too, so we'll down-play it". Does that excuse work for anti-black racism as well?" I think you’re over analysing my reply. So let me help you out. Labour are racist. Tories are racist, LibDems are racist. All political parties are racist. The difference is which party is openly addressing their racism! Answers on a postcard | |||
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"I’m having a rant… here goes Fortunately my wife is black and doesn’t fit any ideas you may have of how she fits into life. . That good old trope… my wife is black, my mate is gay, my neighbour is polish and he’s alright. Yeah abdullah he’s a nice guy but but but It simply doesn’t wash mate. Time to woke up and smell the coffee. Hilarious. Cynical though. I need not prove what is blatantly true. Because you’re really unable to formulate an argument. Have you surrendered so quickly ? You’ve shut down any debate by sticking your head in the sand. I don’t want to hear is what you are seemingly saying. Makes any debate on this type of thing tedious and nonsensical. Sorry if you took my comment personally and haven’t been able to recover from the ordeal. Tedious to you is real life for millions of Britons. It’s a privilege to ignore it. Not really sensible. Democracy gives me that right. Deal with it. And the old British Bulldog spirit meows You debate with spite. " Please don’t be sensitive. My reply was to expose racists, and people with prejudices. Those who reveal themselves are brave. It simply exposes them to everyone what they are. | |||
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"I’m having a rant… here goes Fortunately my wife is black and doesn’t fit any ideas you may have of how she fits into life. . That good old trope… my wife is black, my mate is gay, my neighbour is polish and he’s alright. Yeah abdullah he’s a nice guy but but but It simply doesn’t wash mate. Time to woke up and smell the coffee. Hilarious. Cynical though. I need not prove what is blatantly true. Because you’re really unable to formulate an argument. Have you surrendered so quickly ? You’ve shut down any debate by sticking your head in the sand. I don’t want to hear is what you are seemingly saying. Makes any debate on this type of thing tedious and nonsensical. Sorry if you took my comment personally and haven’t been able to recover from the ordeal. Tedious to you is real life for millions of Britons. It’s a privilege to ignore it. Not really sensible. Democracy gives me that right. Deal with it. And the old British Bulldog spirit meows You debate with spite. Please don’t be sensitive. My reply was to expose racists, and people with prejudices. Those who reveal themselves are brave. It simply exposes them to everyone what they are. " I’m all for that. Forums get messy. Forums attract comments without truth. I went into a bookshop and just wondered what was worth reading. | |||
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"I personally don’t think this privilege thing has any scientific basis. Too many factors affect success and failure. One generation ago my parents siblings died of TB. They went hungry. You can’t say until the were val of the wind rush generation they had privilege. They were bottom drawer. I don’t expect to get anywhere by presenting this here, but here we go: The idea of white privilege is very simple; it states that whatever you have been through, had you been black instead of white then things would have been even harder for you Could you explain how the six million white European Jews massacred by the Nazis in WW2 benefitted from this "white privilege"? Would they have been gassed, poisoned, shot, hanged etc a bit "harder" if they were black? There are resources out there exploring Jews in the Holocaust and the idea of white privilege as you mention. It’s everybody’s responsibility to educate themselves on what they want to be educated on, we’re fortunate to live in an age of lots of freely available information. It's a shame the Labour party didn't avail themselves of any of these freely available resources before they were found guilty of anti-semitism by the European Court of Human Rights in 2019/2020. Sadly we are surrounded by an ocean of antisemites. I fear other Parties have just been better at hiding their skeletons. Ah, the old "everyone else probably does it too, so we'll down-play it". Does that excuse work for anti-black racism as well? I think you’re over analysing my reply. So let me help you out. Labour are racist. Tories are racist, LibDems are racist. All political parties are racist. The difference is which party is openly addressing their racism! Answers on a postcard " Deflecting again. Labour are the only party to have been found guilty of racism by the European Court of Human Rights, apart from the British National Party. Great bedfellows. | |||
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"I think you’re over analysing my reply. So let me help you out. Labour are racist. Tories are racist, LibDems are racist. All political parties are racist. The difference is which party is openly addressing their racism! Answers on a postcard " I'm trying to workout why you went from 0 - 100 in less time it took me to make a cup of coffee.... Don't lose the opportunity to get your point over by wrapping it up in anger, it would be good to hear what you have to say. | |||
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"I personally don’t think this privilege thing has any scientific basis. Too many factors affect success and failure. One generation ago my parents siblings died of TB. They went hungry. You can’t say until the were val of the wind rush generation they had privilege. They were bottom drawer. I don’t expect to get anywhere by presenting this here, but here we go: The idea of white privilege is very simple; it states that whatever you have been through, had you been black instead of white then things would have been even harder for you Could you explain how the six million white European Jews massacred by the Nazis in WW2 benefitted from this "white privilege"? Would they have been gassed, poisoned, shot, hanged etc a bit "harder" if they were black? There are resources out there exploring Jews in the Holocaust and the idea of white privilege as you mention. It’s everybody’s responsibility to educate themselves on what they want to be educated on, we’re fortunate to live in an age of lots of freely available information. It's a shame the Labour party didn't avail themselves of any of these freely available resources before they were found guilty of anti-semitism by the European Court of Human Rights in 2019/2020. Sadly we are surrounded by an ocean of antisemites. I fear other Parties have just been better at hiding their skeletons. Ah, the old "everyone else probably does it too, so we'll down-play it". Does that excuse work for anti-black racism as well? I think you’re over analysing my reply. So let me help you out. Labour are racist. Tories are racist, LibDems are racist. All political parties are racist. The difference is which party is openly addressing their racism! Answers on a postcard Deflecting again. Labour are the only party to have been found guilty of racism by the European Court of Human Rights, apart from the British National Party. Great bedfellows." Ok take it as deflection. Doesn’t change facts does it. | |||
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"I think you’re over analysing my reply. So let me help you out. Labour are racist. Tories are racist, LibDems are racist. All political parties are racist. The difference is which party is openly addressing their racism! Answers on a postcard I'm trying to workout why you went from 0 - 100 in less time it took me to make a cup of coffee.... Don't lose the opportunity to get your point over by wrapping it up in anger, it would be good to hear what you have to say. " . It’s not me whose angry. You need to slow down, re-read my post/ Try reading it in a french accent, then you’ll think I’m French or try reading it in a little mouses voice, and you’ll think I’m a little mouse. My point, only you’re choosing to read my text in an angry manner. | |||
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"I think you’re over analysing my reply. So let me help you out. Labour are racist. Tories are racist, LibDems are racist. All political parties are racist. The difference is which party is openly addressing their racism! Answers on a postcard I'm trying to workout why you went from 0 - 100 in less time it took me to make a cup of coffee.... Don't lose the opportunity to get your point over by wrapping it up in anger, it would be good to hear what you have to say. . It’s not me whose angry. You need to slow down, re-read my post/ Try reading it in a french accent, then you’ll think I’m French or try reading it in a little mouses voice, and you’ll think I’m a little mouse. My point, only you’re choosing to read my text in an angry manner. " You started off with "I'm having a rant" so you set the tone their buddy.... and for that reason I'm out  | |||
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"I think you’re over analysing my reply. So let me help you out. Labour are racist. Tories are racist, LibDems are racist. All political parties are racist. The difference is which party is openly addressing their racism! Answers on a postcard I'm trying to workout why you went from 0 - 100 in less time it took me to make a cup of coffee.... Don't lose the opportunity to get your point over by wrapping it up in anger, it would be good to hear what you have to say. . It’s not me whose angry. You need to slow down, re-read my post/ Try reading it in a french accent, then you’ll think I’m French or try reading it in a little mouses voice, and you’ll think I’m a little mouse. My point, only you’re choosing to read my text in an angry manner. You started off with "I'm having a rant" so you set the tone their buddy.... and for that reason I'm out "Another British Bull Dog spirit goes meow. | |||
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"I personally don’t think this privilege thing has any scientific basis. Too many factors affect success and failure. One generation ago my parents siblings died of TB. They went hungry. You can’t say until the were val of the wind rush generation they had privilege. They were bottom drawer. I don’t expect to get anywhere by presenting this here, but here we go: The idea of white privilege is very simple; it states that whatever you have been through, had you been black instead of white then things would have been even harder for you Could you explain how the six million white European Jews massacred by the Nazis in WW2 benefitted from this "white privilege"? Would they have been gassed, poisoned, shot, hanged etc a bit "harder" if they were black? There are resources out there exploring Jews in the Holocaust and the idea of white privilege as you mention. It’s everybody’s responsibility to educate themselves on what they want to be educated on, we’re fortunate to live in an age of lots of freely available information. It's a shame the Labour party didn't avail themselves of any of these freely available resources before they were found guilty of anti-semitism by the European Court of Human Rights in 2019/2020. Sadly we are surrounded by an ocean of antisemites. I fear other Parties have just been better at hiding their skeletons. Ah, the old "everyone else probably does it too, so we'll down-play it". Does that excuse work for anti-black racism as well? I think you’re over analysing my reply. So let me help you out. Labour are racist. Tories are racist, LibDems are racist. All political parties are racist. The difference is which party is openly addressing their racism! Answers on a postcard Deflecting again. Labour are the only party to have been found guilty of racism by the European Court of Human Rights, apart from the British National Party. Great bedfellows. Ok take it as deflection. Doesn’t change facts does it." No, it doesn't change the fact that the Labour party have actually been found guilty of racism by one of the highest courts in an entire continent. Please let me know asap when the Lib Dems, the Cons, Plaid Cymru, SNP etc are found guilty of racism by the ECHR and I'll add them to my list of "don't vote for" parties. | |||
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"I personally don’t think this privilege thing has any scientific basis. Too many factors affect success and failure. One generation ago my parents siblings died of TB. They went hungry. You can’t say until the were val of the wind rush generation they had privilege. They were bottom drawer. I don’t expect to get anywhere by presenting this here, but here we go: The idea of white privilege is very simple; it states that whatever you have been through, had you been black instead of white then things would have been even harder for you Could you explain how the six million white European Jews massacred by the Nazis in WW2 benefitted from this "white privilege"? Would they have been gassed, poisoned, shot, hanged etc a bit "harder" if they were black? There are resources out there exploring Jews in the Holocaust and the idea of white privilege as you mention. It’s everybody’s responsibility to educate themselves on what they want to be educated on, we’re fortunate to live in an age of lots of freely available information. It's a shame the Labour party didn't avail themselves of any of these freely available resources before they were found guilty of anti-semitism by the European Court of Human Rights in 2019/2020. Sadly we are surrounded by an ocean of antisemites. I fear other Parties have just been better at hiding their skeletons. Ah, the old "everyone else probably does it too, so we'll down-play it". Does that excuse work for anti-black racism as well? I think you’re over analysing my reply. So let me help you out. Labour are racist. Tories are racist, LibDems are racist. All political parties are racist. The difference is which party is openly addressing their racism! Answers on a postcard Deflecting again. Labour are the only party to have been found guilty of racism by the European Court of Human Rights, apart from the British National Party. Great bedfellows. Ok take it as deflection. Doesn’t change facts does it. No, it doesn't change the fact that the Labour party have actually been found guilty of racism by one of the highest courts in an entire continent. Please let me know asap when the Lib Dems, the Cons, Plaid Cymru, SNP etc are found guilty of racism by the ECHR and I'll add them to my list of "don't vote for" parties. "Your Google skills are top notch. | |||
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"I personally don’t think this privilege thing has any scientific basis. Too many factors affect success and failure. One generation ago my parents siblings died of TB. They went hungry. You can’t say until the were val of the wind rush generation they had privilege. They were bottom drawer. I don’t expect to get anywhere by presenting this here, but here we go: The idea of white privilege is very simple; it states that whatever you have been through, had you been black instead of white then things would have been even harder for you Could you explain how the six million white European Jews massacred by the Nazis in WW2 benefitted from this "white privilege"? Would they have been gassed, poisoned, shot, hanged etc a bit "harder" if they were black? They very possibly would not have been gassed, poisoned, shot, hanged etc at all if they had been blond haired, blue eyed, uncircumcised, and with three generations of similar ancestors. "White privilege" is not an absolute thing - skin is white therefore automatically got 6 numbers in the lottery. More like skin is white gives you one number in the lottery, skin is slightly dusky gives you a near miss on a number. Being the "right" religion might give you another number. Being disabled takes away a number that you might have otherwise got. Having the right parents who know the right people can give you 3 numbers straight away. Being transgender will take two numbers off you. In most countries, being male will give you at least one free number; in some countries being female can disallow you from even being able to enter the lottery, your only hope then is to get taken in by a man that does have some of the winning numbers. Etc. It's called intersectionality, how various types of privilege and disadvantage act together. So white skin is not an automatic lottery win, but it's generally one number closer to winning than not having white skin." Excellent post - as yours so often are. Mr | |||
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"I personally don’t think this privilege thing has any scientific basis. Too many factors affect success and failure. One generation ago my parents siblings died of TB. They went hungry. You can’t say until the were val of the wind rush generation they had privilege. They were bottom drawer. I don’t expect to get anywhere by presenting this here, but here we go: The idea of white privilege is very simple; it states that whatever you have been through, had you been black instead of white then things would have been even harder for you Could you explain how the six million white European Jews massacred by the Nazis in WW2 benefitted from this "white privilege"? Would they have been gassed, poisoned, shot, hanged etc a bit "harder" if they were black? There are resources out there exploring Jews in the Holocaust and the idea of white privilege as you mention. It’s everybody’s responsibility to educate themselves on what they want to be educated on, we’re fortunate to live in an age of lots of freely available information. It's a shame the Labour party didn't avail themselves of any of these freely available resources before they were found guilty of anti-semitism by the European Court of Human Rights in 2019/2020. Sadly we are surrounded by an ocean of antisemites. I fear other Parties have just been better at hiding their skeletons. Ah, the old "everyone else probably does it too, so we'll down-play it". Does that excuse work for anti-black racism as well? I think you’re over analysing my reply. So let me help you out. Labour are racist. Tories are racist, LibDems are racist. All political parties are racist. The difference is which party is openly addressing their racism! Answers on a postcard Deflecting again. Labour are the only party to have been found guilty of racism by the European Court of Human Rights, apart from the British National Party. Great bedfellows. Ok take it as deflection. Doesn’t change facts does it. No, it doesn't change the fact that the Labour party have actually been found guilty of racism by one of the highest courts in an entire continent. Please let me know asap when the Lib Dems, the Cons, Plaid Cymru, SNP etc are found guilty of racism by the ECHR and I'll add them to my list of "don't vote for" parties.
Your Google skills are top notch. "And what is that supposed to mean? That I am able to use the same resource for information that everybody else uses? Did it make you feel superior for saying that? | |||
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"I personally don’t think this privilege thing has any scientific basis. Too many factors affect success and failure. One generation ago my parents siblings died of TB. They went hungry. You can’t say until the were val of the wind rush generation they had privilege. They were bottom drawer. I don’t expect to get anywhere by presenting this here, but here we go: The idea of white privilege is very simple; it states that whatever you have been through, had you been black instead of white then things would have been even harder for you Could you explain how the six million white European Jews massacred by the Nazis in WW2 benefitted from this "white privilege"? Would they have been gassed, poisoned, shot, hanged etc a bit "harder" if they were black? There are resources out there exploring Jews in the Holocaust and the idea of white privilege as you mention. It’s everybody’s responsibility to educate themselves on what they want to be educated on, we’re fortunate to live in an age of lots of freely available information. It's a shame the Labour party didn't avail themselves of any of these freely available resources before they were found guilty of anti-semitism by the European Court of Human Rights in 2019/2020. Sadly we are surrounded by an ocean of antisemites. I fear other Parties have just been better at hiding their skeletons. Ah, the old "everyone else probably does it too, so we'll down-play it". Does that excuse work for anti-black racism as well? I think you’re over analysing my reply. So let me help you out. Labour are racist. Tories are racist, LibDems are racist. All political parties are racist. The difference is which party is openly addressing their racism! Answers on a postcard Deflecting again. Labour are the only party to have been found guilty of racism by the European Court of Human Rights, apart from the British National Party. Great bedfellows. Ok take it as deflection. Doesn’t change facts does it. No, it doesn't change the fact that the Labour party have actually been found guilty of racism by one of the highest courts in an entire continent. Please let me know asap when the Lib Dems, the Cons, Plaid Cymru, SNP etc are found guilty of racism by the ECHR and I'll add them to my list of "don't vote for" parties.
Your Google skills are top notch.
And what is that supposed to mean? That I am able to use the same resource for information that everybody else uses? Did it make you feel superior for saying that?"Please don’t be sensitive. Are you feeling ok? | |||
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"I personally don’t think this privilege thing has any scientific basis. Too many factors affect success and failure. One generation ago my parents siblings died of TB. They went hungry. You can’t say until the were val of the wind rush generation they had privilege. They were bottom drawer. I don’t expect to get anywhere by presenting this here, but here we go: The idea of white privilege is very simple; it states that whatever you have been through, had you been black instead of white then things would have been even harder for you Could you explain how the six million white European Jews massacred by the Nazis in WW2 benefitted from this "white privilege"? Would they have been gassed, poisoned, shot, hanged etc a bit "harder" if they were black? There are resources out there exploring Jews in the Holocaust and the idea of white privilege as you mention. It’s everybody’s responsibility to educate themselves on what they want to be educated on, we’re fortunate to live in an age of lots of freely available information. It's a shame the Labour party didn't avail themselves of any of these freely available resources before they were found guilty of anti-semitism by the European Court of Human Rights in 2019/2020. Sadly we are surrounded by an ocean of antisemites. I fear other Parties have just been better at hiding their skeletons. Ah, the old "everyone else probably does it too, so we'll down-play it". Does that excuse work for anti-black racism as well? I think you’re over analysing my reply. So let me help you out. Labour are racist. Tories are racist, LibDems are racist. All political parties are racist. The difference is which party is openly addressing their racism! Answers on a postcard Deflecting again. Labour are the only party to have been found guilty of racism by the European Court of Human Rights, apart from the British National Party. Great bedfellows. Ok take it as deflection. Doesn’t change facts does it. No, it doesn't change the fact that the Labour party have actually been found guilty of racism by one of the highest courts in an entire continent. Please let me know asap when the Lib Dems, the Cons, Plaid Cymru, SNP etc are found guilty of racism by the ECHR and I'll add them to my list of "don't vote for" parties.
Your Google skills are top notch.
And what is that supposed to mean? That I am able to use the same resource for information that everybody else uses? Did it make you feel superior for saying that?
Please don’t be sensitive. Are you feeling ok?
"I promise I won't be sensitive if you promise not to continue trying to justify anti-Semitic racism. You ok hun?  | |||
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"Change without criticism is undemocratic. May be old school but it works. Nobody can take that right to criticise sway without a fight. To scream racist at every opportunity is like screaming witch. We know the real issues and some of us were on the frontline since we were young. Everyone comes a little more conservative with age. Nothing wrong in getting used to your society. The young guard can turn out like the Khmer Rouge. Fight as a young one. Fight as the old guard. It’s your right." Glad you’re showing your colours. | |||
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"EHRC ECHR Unless I missed something it was Equality and Human Rights Commission that found them to have been unlawful. " The 2 are quite different as I suspect you already know. The information can be found online. | |||
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"Change without criticism is undemocratic. May be old school but it works. Nobody can take that right to criticise sway without a fight. To scream racist at every opportunity is like screaming witch. We know the real issues and some of us were on the frontline since we were young. Everyone comes a little more conservative with age. Nothing wrong in getting used to your society. The young guard can turn out like the Khmer Rouge. Fight as a young one. Fight as the old guard. It’s your right. Glad you’re showing your colours. " You seem to have come to the end of your debating skills. You should sit this one out from now | |||
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"EHRC ECHR Unless I missed something it was Equality and Human Rights Commission that found them to have been unlawful. The 2 are quite different as I suspect you already know. The information can be found online." it was meant to say not equal to. So yes, I agree. But the thread seems to be mixing them up. | |||
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"Enticed by the aroma of vegan stew I wondered into a little bookshop the other day. The shelves were full of titles I didn’t quite understand what with being pale, male and stale and all that (subjects being colonialism, feminism, diversity..) Any woke titles I could start with, get up to date like?" Hmm. Looking at the thread it's almost as if your woke bookshop has made things worse not better  | |||
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"Enticed by the aroma of vegan stew I wondered into a little bookshop the other day. The shelves were full of titles I didn’t quite understand what with being pale, male and stale and all that (subjects being colonialism, feminism, diversity..) Any woke titles I could start with, get up to date like? Hmm. Looking at the thread it's almost as if your woke bookshop has made things worse not better "Not in the least bit suprised. Change by stealth does worry me. But the nation is polarised in too many ways. Maybe not the place to highlight it here but we can of course mention those day to day things we notice. Though some bring us down about it but I could mention bikes and it would probably turn out the same! | |||
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"Enticed by the aroma of vegan stew I wondered into a little bookshop the other day. The shelves were full of titles I didn’t quite understand what with being pale, male and stale and all that (subjects being colonialism, feminism, diversity..) Any woke titles I could start with, get up to date like? Hmm. Looking at the thread it's almost as if your woke bookshop has made things worse not better
Not in the least bit suprised. Change by stealth does worry me. But the nation is polarised in too many ways. Maybe not the place to highlight it here but we can of course mention those day to day things we notice. Though some bring us down about it but I could mention bikes and it would probably turn out the same!
"Me either. I see lots of broad and sweeping statements about white and straight and male. The intentions may be good but the methods are just abysmal | |||
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"It is the 'woke' who are the racists" Of course you would think that. It’s natural to play the victim when a mirror is held up. | |||
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"There’s an interesting article called ‘Straight White Male: The Lowest Difficulty Setting There Is’ (pop it into a search engine and it should come up) Interestingly enough when I put it to my teenage son, he expressed the opinion that straight white male is a label that’s now used to look down on those it applies to because of the recognised privilege attached to it Privileged? We used to shit in a bucket." Bucket??? We used to dream of a bucket - a rolled up paper party hat we had… from a Xmas Cracker… neighbours used one - we couldn’t afford extravagances like smiling!!  | |||
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" And positive discrimination is not an answer too. There is a reason why positive discrimination works and is needed. If you don’t know then your opinion is seriously flawed." Works for whom? The system or just the individuals benefitting from it? I am happy with policies to provide support for disadvantaged people during their growth phase be it educational, monetary etc. But if you are talking about "Job X doesn't have Y% representation from Z community, so we must ignore merit and focus on hiring people from that community", it only works counter-productive. You want evidence? Ask anyone who has tried to get something done with government offices in India. I would like a better argument based on facts than: " If you don’t know then your opinion is seriously flawed " | |||
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"I will say 2 words. Jordan Peterson. Right, who fancies a coffee ?" The guy that took a year off from suffering Mental Illness. Of course he would call males in similar situation weak woke men. Petersen what’s he saying about mental illness now | |||
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" And positive discrimination is not an answer too. There is a reason why positive discrimination works and is needed. If you don’t know then your opinion is seriously flawed. Works for whom? The system or just the individuals benefitting from it? I am happy with policies to provide support for disadvantaged people during their growth phase be it educational, monetary etc. But if you are talking about "Job X doesn't have Y% representation from Z community, so we must ignore merit and focus on hiring people from that community", it only works counter-productive. You want evidence? Ask anyone who has tried to get something done with government offices in India. I would like a better argument based on facts than: If you don’t know then your opinion is seriously flawed " If you don’t know you don’t know. The answer is yes . | |||
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"White Fragility: Why It’s So Hard for White People to Talk about Racism Haven't read it. But I am guessing this should be proper woke based on one of her interviews. This thread is revealing. And will shed some light on that title. To be honest, most arguments made by the author were just kafka traps. She basically shuts down every debate by saying that "You are arguing against my point because you are white and fragile and thereby proving the point I made in the book." Load of nonsense if you ask me. Sounds almost Orwellian. Orwell a left wing hero who discovered the extreme left in the Spanish Civil War hated the moderate left the most. Right was very clearly wrong and best dealt with by a bullet in the neck. Interesting. I don't know about Orwell's personal political leanings. But his books seem to mostly attack the authoritarian left than the right. He was left by any sensible definition but knew Soviet Leftism was totalitarian. The fact that even the most loyal of party members sat with the threat of death by denouncement at any moment. He had been a policeman in Burma and once said he’d happily drive a bayonet into the guts of a Buddhist monk. His words not mine. " Good to know. I will read more about him | |||
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"Enticed by the aroma of vegan stew I wondered into a little bookshop the other day. The shelves were full of titles I didn’t quite understand what with being pale, male and stale and all that (subjects being colonialism, feminism, diversity..) Any woke titles I could start with, get up to date like? Hmm. Looking at the thread it's almost as if your woke bookshop has made things worse not better ": You mean you prefer no debate and keep things like the good ol’ days | |||
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"Enticed by the aroma of vegan stew I wondered into a little bookshop the other day. The shelves were full of titles I didn’t quite understand what with being pale, male and stale and all that (subjects being colonialism, feminism, diversity..) Any woke titles I could start with, get up to date like? Hmm. Looking at the thread it's almost as if your woke bookshop has made things worse not better :
You mean you prefer no debate and keep things like the good ol’ days "Let me know when you're going to start debating then | |||
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" And positive discrimination is not an answer too. There is a reason why positive discrimination works and is needed. If you don’t know then your opinion is seriously flawed. Works for whom? The system or just the individuals benefitting from it? I am happy with policies to provide support for disadvantaged people during their growth phase be it educational, monetary etc. But if you are talking about "Job X doesn't have Y% representation from Z community, so we must ignore merit and focus on hiring people from that community", it only works counter-productive. You want evidence? Ask anyone who has tried to get something done with government offices in India. I would like a better argument based on facts than: If you don’t know then your opinion is seriously flawed If you don’t know you don’t know. The answer is yes ." This is the problem with woke. Liberal movement was supposed to be based on rationality, free speech and debates. It was indeed rational for quite a long time. Then the woke people hijacked it. Can't handle a rational argument. The only response they are capable of is "You don't support us because you are a racist" or anything along those lines. They go on to suppress free speech which is a basic tenet of liberalism. After all this, they wonder why people laugh at them. | |||
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" And positive discrimination is not an answer too. There is a reason why positive discrimination works and is needed. If you don’t know then your opinion is seriously flawed. Works for whom? The system or just the individuals benefitting from it? I am happy with policies to provide support for disadvantaged people during their growth phase be it educational, monetary etc. But if you are talking about "Job X doesn't have Y% representation from Z community, so we must ignore merit and focus on hiring people from that community", it only works counter-productive. You want evidence? Ask anyone who has tried to get something done with government offices in India. I would like a better argument based on facts than: If you don’t know then your opinion is seriously flawed If you don’t know you don’t know. The answer is yes . This is the problem with woke. Liberal movement was supposed to be based on rationality, free speech and debates. It was indeed rational for quite a long time. Then the woke people hijacked it. Can't handle a rational argument. The only response they are capable of is "You don't support us because you are a racist" or anything along those lines. They go on to suppress free speech which is a basic tenet of liberalism. After all this, they wonder why people laugh at them. " Triggered. And clearly unfounded nonsense. Google when the term Woke was common vehicular. And your diatribe will be exposed for the untruths spewed. | |||
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"It is the 'woke' who are the racists Of course you would think that. It’s natural to play the victim when a mirror is held up. " Are you 'woke'? Maybe you need to assess your own values. The racist may be you | |||
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" And positive discrimination is not an answer too. There is a reason why positive discrimination works and is needed. If you don’t know then your opinion is seriously flawed. Works for whom? The system or just the individuals benefitting from it? I am happy with policies to provide support for disadvantaged people during their growth phase be it educational, monetary etc. But if you are talking about "Job X doesn't have Y% representation from Z community, so we must ignore merit and focus on hiring people from that community", it only works counter-productive. You want evidence? Ask anyone who has tried to get something done with government offices in India. I would like a better argument based on facts than: If you don’t know then your opinion is seriously flawed If you don’t know you don’t know. The answer is yes . This is the problem with woke. Liberal movement was supposed to be based on rationality, free speech and debates. It was indeed rational for quite a long time. Then the woke people hijacked it. Can't handle a rational argument. The only response they are capable of is "You don't support us because you are a racist" or anything along those lines. They go on to suppress free speech which is a basic tenet of liberalism. After all this, they wonder why people laugh at them. " We see this a lot. On this thread. Anyone who the woke disagree with is labelled racist, sexist, 'phobe' etc etc. It's just a means to try to silence other people's point of view Utterly braindead. They usually misrepresent people in the hope of getting them sacked. Just bullies...a modern type of fascism | |||
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"It is the 'woke' who are the racists Of course you would think that. It’s natural to play the victim when a mirror is held up. Are you 'woke'? Maybe you need to assess your own values. The racist may be you" No, but thank you for your valuable input. It’s really helped progress the thread. Good job. | |||
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" Triggered. And clearly unfounded nonsense. Google when the term Woke was common vehicular. And your diatribe will be exposed for the untruths spewed. " Yet another thought provoking mature argument. The woke never disappoints
I very well know that "woke" was a conservative wing thing in the past. That's exactly what I mentioned in my post. But in the past decade, a big chunk of liberals decided to take over the badge for themselves. | |||
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"It is the 'woke' who are the racists Of course you would think that. It’s natural to play the victim when a mirror is held up. Are you 'woke'? Maybe you need to assess your own values. The racist may be you No, but thank you for your valuable input. It’s really helped progress the thread. Good job. "The truly non-racist treat everyone equally. Are colour-blind. The 'woke' say to be colour blind is racist! No. The wokies are racists who think people are only defined by their genes. No room for reason. Modern fascists | |||
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"It is the 'woke' who are the racists Of course you would think that. It’s natural to play the victim when a mirror is held up. Are you 'woke'? Maybe you need to assess your own values. The racist may be you No, but thank you for your valuable input. It’s really helped progress the thread. Good job.
The truly non-racist treat everyone equally. Are colour-blind.
The 'woke' say to be colour blind is racist!
No. The wokies are racists who think people are only defined by their genes. No room for reason.
Modern fascists"Exactly. I personally don't care about the colour of people in the TV shows or films I watch, places I go or the colleagues I work with. Be it all white, all black or all Asian I don't mind. Apparently that's not enough. You need to calculate the number of people of each colour, gender, sexuality and make a big deal if the percentages don't match. | |||
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"It is the 'woke' who are the racists Of course you would think that. It’s natural to play the victim when a mirror is held up. Are you 'woke'? Maybe you need to assess your own values. The racist may be you No, but thank you for your valuable input. It’s really helped progress the thread. Good job.
The truly non-racist treat everyone equally. Are colour-blind.
The 'woke' say to be colour blind is racist!
No. The wokies are racists who think people are only defined by their genes. No room for reason.
Modern fascists"Woke are correct to state being colour blind is racist . Because to deny colour is to deny a persons attribute. To take away a person colour to make them feel equal is doing harm. I’m glad you’ve managed to cobble a piece of debate for the thread. Clearly, you’ve kind of failed and just showed your ignorance to the population of this thread. Bravo. Bravo. | |||
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"2 more words Thomas Sowell" Thomas Sowell is very interesting. Just because he's black the racist 'wokies' hate him. Larry Elder, the black leader of California's recent referendum said he was against 'positive discrimination' - only to be called 'white supremacist' by a load of 'woje' students. Utter morons and racists themselves | |||
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"2 more words Thomas Sowell" And a few more words from him "Racism is not dead, but it is on life support — kept alive by politicians, race hustlers and people who get a sense of superiority by denouncing others as "racists." | |||
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"It is the 'woke' who are the racists Of course you would think that. It’s natural to play the victim when a mirror is held up. Are you 'woke'? Maybe you need to assess your own values. The racist may be you No, but thank you for your valuable input. It’s really helped progress the thread. Good job.
The truly non-racist treat everyone equally. Are colour-blind.
The 'woke' say to be colour blind is racist!
No. The wokies are racists who think people are only defined by their genes. No room for reason.
Modern fascists
Exactly. I personally don't care about the colour of people in the TV shows or films I watch, places I go or the colleagues I work with. Be it all white, all black or all Asian I don't mind. Apparently that's not enough. You need to calculate the number of people of each colour, gender, sexuality and make a big deal if the percentages don't match. "I see you want to be rewarded, you want people of colour to be grateful of your charitable deeds. Of course you don’t see the issues faced by millions. How could you, you don’t see colour for a start. Work places calculate all sorts of measures. Perhaps you should raise your concerns with your Hiring Manager or take it up with HR. | |||
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"It is the 'woke' who are the racists Of course you would think that. It’s natural to play the victim when a mirror is held up. Are you 'woke'? Maybe you need to assess your own values. The racist may be you No, but thank you for your valuable input. It’s really helped progress the thread. Good job.
The truly non-racist treat everyone equally. Are colour-blind.
The 'woke' say to be colour blind is racist!
No. The wokies are racists who think people are only defined by their genes. No room for reason.
Modern fascists
Woke are correct to state being colour blind is racist . Because to deny colour is to deny a persons attribute. To take away a person colour to make them feel equal is doing harm.
I’m glad you’ve managed to cobble a piece of debate for the thread. Clearly, you’ve kind of failed and just showed your ignorance to the population of this thread. Bravo. Bravo. "Bravo yourself. Care to explain how treating everyone equally regardless of colour is 'racist' or 'white supremacist'? It would take a racist to stand that up but have a try | |||
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"It is the 'woke' who are the racists Of course you would think that. It’s natural to play the victim when a mirror is held up. Are you 'woke'? Maybe you need to assess your own values. The racist may be you No, but thank you for your valuable input. It’s really helped progress the thread. Good job.
The truly non-racist treat everyone equally. Are colour-blind.
The 'woke' say to be colour blind is racist!
No. The wokies are racists who think people are only defined by their genes. No room for reason.
Modern fascists
Exactly. I personally don't care about the colour of people in the TV shows or films I watch, places I go or the colleagues I work with. Be it all white, all black or all Asian I don't mind. Apparently that's not enough. You need to calculate the number of people of each colour, gender, sexuality and make a big deal if the percentages don't match.
I see you want to be rewarded, you want people of colour to be grateful of your charitable deeds.
Of course you don’t see the issues faced by millions. How could you, you don’t see colour for a start.
Work places calculate all sorts of measures. Perhaps you should raise your concerns with your Hiring Manager or take it up with HR. "Colour is there to be seen and ignored. The 'woke' see nothing but colour. True non_racists think colour doesn't matter and treat everyone equally. The wokies think such an approach is 'racist' | |||
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"One of my favourite things he has said is that more white people have been taken as sl4ves by blacks than the other way round. More black people have been ensl4ved by black people than whites. Its on a Yates video and I have never wanted to be sat in a woke room more...but alas, I was alone." Ooh that old trope. White S.lave owners weren’t as bad after all. The Africans were doing it all by themselves. Instead of shaking yourself and stating how abhorrent sl-avery in any capacity is. Instead he plays up to the good old days of s.lave ownership. Shame shame. | |||
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"It is the 'woke' who are the racists Of course you would think that. It’s natural to play the victim when a mirror is held up. Are you 'woke'? Maybe you need to assess your own values. The racist may be you No, but thank you for your valuable input. It’s really helped progress the thread. Good job.
The truly non-racist treat everyone equally. Are colour-blind.
The 'woke' say to be colour blind is racist!
No. The wokies are racists who think people are only defined by their genes. No room for reason.
Modern fascists
Exactly. I personally don't care about the colour of people in the TV shows or films I watch, places I go or the colleagues I work with. Be it all white, all black or all Asian I don't mind. Apparently that's not enough. You need to calculate the number of people of each colour, gender, sexuality and make a big deal if the percentages don't match.
I see you want to be rewarded, you want people of colour to be grateful of your charitable deeds.
Of course you don’t see the issues faced by millions. How could you, you don’t see colour for a start.
Work places calculate all sorts of measures. Perhaps you should raise your concerns with your Hiring Manager or take it up with HR. " The woke are entertainers.
I never asked anyone to be grateful to me. I am a person of colour myself. I do know the issues faced by millions. Forcing percentages on workplaces or anything at all is not the solution. If we do that, we need to stop hiring coloured people and get more white people people in medical sector, IT and even some football clubs because white people are underrepresented compared to their population ratios.
If I see someone suffer, I see their economic background which mostly explains their sufferings. I don't have to see colour. Only racists see colour in everything.
I do follow the HR in our company about these matters. They are pretty transparent about the policies. Our interview process is still based on merit. They try to make the workforce more diverse by getting more candidates. But the interview scoring and selection process is still the same for everyone. No one gets an advantage over others. | |||
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"It is the 'woke' who are the racists Of course you would think that. It’s natural to play the victim when a mirror is held up. Are you 'woke'? Maybe you need to assess your own values. The racist may be you No, but thank you for your valuable input. It’s really helped progress the thread. Good job.
The truly non-racist treat everyone equally. Are colour-blind.
The 'woke' say to be colour blind is racist!
No. The wokies are racists who think people are only defined by their genes. No room for reason.
Modern fascists
Exactly. I personally don't care about the colour of people in the TV shows or films I watch, places I go or the colleagues I work with. Be it all white, all black or all Asian I don't mind. Apparently that's not enough. You need to calculate the number of people of each colour, gender, sexuality and make a big deal if the percentages don't match.
I see you want to be rewarded, you want people of colour to be grateful of your charitable deeds.
Of course you don’t see the issues faced by millions. How could you, you don’t see colour for a start.
Work places calculate all sorts of measures. Perhaps you should raise your concerns with your Hiring Manager or take it up with HR.
Colour is there to be seen and ignored.
The 'woke' see nothing but colour.
True non_racists think colour doesn't matter and treat everyone equally.
The wokies think such an approach is 'racist' "Nonsense clearly | |||
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"It is the 'woke' who are the racists Of course you would think that. It’s natural to play the victim when a mirror is held up. Are you 'woke'? Maybe you need to assess your own values. The racist may be you No, but thank you for your valuable input. It’s really helped progress the thread. Good job.
The truly non-racist treat everyone equally. Are colour-blind.
The 'woke' say to be colour blind is racist!
No. The wokies are racists who think people are only defined by their genes. No room for reason.
Modern fascists
Exactly. I personally don't care about the colour of people in the TV shows or films I watch, places I go or the colleagues I work with. Be it all white, all black or all Asian I don't mind. Apparently that's not enough. You need to calculate the number of people of each colour, gender, sexuality and make a big deal if the percentages don't match.
I see you want to be rewarded, you want people of colour to be grateful of your charitable deeds.
Of course you don’t see the issues faced by millions. How could you, you don’t see colour for a start.
Work places calculate all sorts of measures. Perhaps you should raise your concerns with your Hiring Manager or take it up with HR.
The woke are entertainers.
I never asked anyone to be grateful to me. I am a person of colour myself. I do know the issues faced by millions. Forcing percentages on workplaces or anything at all is not the solution. If we do that, we need to stop hiring coloured people and get more white people people in medical sector, IT and even some football clubs because white people are underrepresented compared to their population ratios.
If I see someone suffer, I see their economic background which mostly explains their sufferings. I don't have to see colour. Only racists see colour in everything.
I do follow the HR in our company about these matters. They are pretty transparent about the policies. Our interview process is still based on merit. They try to make the workforce more diverse by getting more candidates. But the interview scoring and selection process is still the same for everyone. No one gets an advantage over others. "Clearly, you don’t know but you think you know. But you know nothing. | |||
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"It is the 'woke' who are the racists Of course you would think that. It’s natural to play the victim when a mirror is held up. Are you 'woke'? Maybe you need to assess your own values. The racist may be you No, but thank you for your valuable input. It’s really helped progress the thread. Good job.
The truly non-racist treat everyone equally. Are colour-blind.
The 'woke' say to be colour blind is racist!
No. The wokies are racists who think people are only defined by their genes. No room for reason.
Modern fascists
Exactly. I personally don't care about the colour of people in the TV shows or films I watch, places I go or the colleagues I work with. Be it all white, all black or all Asian I don't mind. Apparently that's not enough. You need to calculate the number of people of each colour, gender, sexuality and make a big deal if the percentages don't match.
I see you want to be rewarded, you want people of colour to be grateful of your charitable deeds.
Of course you don’t see the issues faced by millions. How could you, you don’t see colour for a start.
Work places calculate all sorts of measures. Perhaps you should raise your concerns with your Hiring Manager or take it up with HR.
The woke are entertainers.
I never asked anyone to be grateful to me. I am a person of colour myself. I do know the issues faced by millions. Forcing percentages on workplaces or anything at all is not the solution. If we do that, we need to stop hiring coloured people and get more white people people in medical sector, IT and even some football clubs because white people are underrepresented compared to their population ratios.
If I see someone suffer, I see their economic background which mostly explains their sufferings. I don't have to see colour. Only racists see colour in everything.
I do follow the HR in our company about these matters. They are pretty transparent about the policies. Our interview process is still based on merit. They try to make the workforce more diverse by getting more candidates. But the interview scoring and selection process is still the same for everyone. No one gets an advantage over others.
Clearly, you don’t know but you think you know. But you know nothing. "Thought provoking rational arguments yet again. Looking at this thread, all you seem to be capable of saying in the debate is: "Clearly nonsense" "You don't know what you are talking about" Please go on. I absolutely love these discussions. | |||
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"I find this whole “woke” vs “anti woke” thing to be tiring now. Personally I don’t find myself to be in either category, since life is much more complex than defining yourself based on any particular set of fixed morals. I flit between many different views. We all do. I just wish people would stop being so extreme in either direction, and would stop arguing tbh. It’s possible to have different opinions and still get along. It’s possible to disagree with someone without thinking the other person is evil. It worries me what might happen if this trend continues." You make a valid point . We aren’t here to argue I’m sure OP is regretting creating this thread as he didn’t realise he’d face such a vocal and rather handsome adversary. I suspect I’ll get a removal from admin shortly. | |||
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"I find this whole “woke” vs “anti woke” thing to be tiring now. Personally I don’t find myself to be in either category, since life is much more complex than defining yourself based on any particular set of fixed morals. I flit between many different views. We all do. I just wish people would stop being so extreme in either direction, and would stop arguing tbh. It’s possible to have different opinions and still get along. It’s possible to disagree with someone without thinking the other person is evil. It worries me what might happen if this trend continues. You make a valid point . We aren’t here to argue I’m sure OP is regretting creating this thread as he didn’t realise he’d face such a vocal and rather handsome adversary. I suspect I’ll get a removal from admin shortly. " You are very handsome 
I’ve taken the stance that it’s not worth stressing over someone else’s views. Sometimes arguing with someone only firms their opinion and reinforces their belief that you’re an adversary | |||
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"I find this whole “woke” vs “anti woke” thing to be tiring now. Personally I don’t find myself to be in either category, since life is much more complex than defining yourself based on any particular set of fixed morals. I flit between many different views. We all do. I just wish people would stop being so extreme in either direction, and would stop arguing tbh. It’s possible to have different opinions and still get along. It’s possible to disagree with someone without thinking the other person is evil. It worries me what might happen if this trend continues." Yes, it's tiring but we shouldn't weary of it. Wokery is an attack on free speech and so we must keep on exposing them as wrong-headed and illiberal | |||
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"I personally don’t think this privilege thing has any scientific basis. Too many factors affect success and failure. One generation ago my parents siblings died of TB. They went hungry. You can’t say until the were val of the wind rush generation they had privilege. They were bottom drawer. I don’t expect to get anywhere by presenting this here, but here we go: The idea of white privilege is very simple; it states that whatever you have been through, had you been black instead of white then things would have been even harder for you" This. What’s interesting to me is the same people who can’t recognise white privilege for example seem to have no issues recognising female privilege. We all have some form of privilege. | |||
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"Have we even agreed what we mean by someone who is "woke"? " This! I was called “woke” by someone on Facebook for having an opinion on one thing, little did she know, my views I’d say are centre right. There’s things I agree and disagree with on both sides. I asked her how she managed to come to the conclusion I was “woke”. Her response I kid you not was “I can tell just by looking at you”… Very interesting. | |||
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