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Sack the lot of 'em

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By *icketysplits OP   Woman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Will making it easier for employers to sack staff improve the economy?

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By *andyguy59Man
over a year ago

Gatwick

"Will making it easier for employers to sack staff improve the economy?"

Not in my case...i'm a self ewmployed one man band .... I rang in sick for the third time this month ...so i've sacked myself....what shall I do now?....aaaah employment tribunal....

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

[Removed by poster at 14/09/12 08:46:17]

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

if they follow robust performance management criteria and all have signed up to set, measurable & reportable objectives..... and demonstrate great leadership/management throughout the organisation... YES ( but in the real world, not likely )

if from bullying and bad management No

if disciplinary.... yes

if absence .... can be more yes than no ( in my opinion and my experience )

there will always be genuine cases exploited, sad but true.... not always supported by the best HR advice/union expertise

and fakers and liars getting away with it, also very sad but true

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Will making it easier for employers to sack staff improve the economy?"

No but employees raising their game and performing well in their jobs and realising a job isnt a right, probably will.

Oh and reducing the tax burden, improving payment time between businesses and a few little incentives to actually do business will too.

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By *andyguy59Man
over a year ago

Gatwick

"Will making it easier for employers to sack staff improve the economy?"

more seriously...no making it easier to get rid of people will just mean a greater turnover of staff as they will be sacking people for other things (perceptions rather than fact) that have nothing to do with a peosons working ability.

You can sack people now easily enough if you know the rules follow them if they are not doing what you want them to do.

They should go back and re_iew the temporary working contracts...there is no way a temp should be paid sick pay or for holidays....a temp is a temp and those payments are an unnecessary overhead...and workers you need to sack quickly should be employed as temps not as permanent staff.

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By *he tactile technicianMan
over a year ago

the good lands, the bad lands, the any where you may want me lands

Emotive media and journo speak, I think personally our employment rights legislation is pretty robust, but if changes can be brought in to reduce the numbers of unnecessary cases starting down the Employment Tribunal route then I applaud them, after all the only people that come out on top from a a claim through the ET are the solicitors and barristers that represent the claimant and respondent. Let us just hope that ACAS gets a shake up as well if the changes in legislation concentrate more on concilliation and mediation outside of the tribunal process.

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By *aris23Woman
over a year ago

France

Oh I do hope so! Private employers have better luck in 'releasing' employees than public employers. In my local government department it seems that if you are part of 'the old boys network' you have a job for life regardless of ability.

Those committing misdemeanours cannot be disciplined for fear of the Union or HR bods quoting some European 'right' in defence of the offender.

An employer terminating a employee's contract should only do so for very valid reasons but ing out those not willing to work for their salary would give those who really want to work an opportunity.

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By *andyguy59Man
over a year ago

Gatwick

"Oh I do hope so! Private employers have better luck in 'releasing' employees than public employers"

In my experience the problem with the Public employers is that thay do not know how to interpret the rules correctly for sacking someone and either don't bother when they should or make a mess of it.

The HR departments in private companies seem to be better trained at getting it right

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As someone who has just experienced being unfairly dismissed, even after 2.5 years service I believe its short sighted to give employers further powers to hire and fire at will.

I have been a senior retail store manager for years, moved companies jan 2010 to join what I thought was a company based on ethics, culture and values. However the senior management in the UK operation are so far removed from the reality operating in its stores that it reacts with a knee jerk every time theres a problem. I was the 6th store manager to be persecuted by an inept area manager (bearing in mind we only had 12 stores) who refused to write down evidence from employees to the positive and took hearsay and speculation from disgruntled employees as fact. In the end I wasnt sacked for gross misconduct, but misconduct even though my record was clean. On appeal I was told I shouldnt have defended myself against these spurious accusations!

In the end a 20 year career was destroyed due to one man's conduct and capability. However I was vindicated recently when I won a substantial sum from the company, my dismissal was clearly unfair. Making it too easy for idiots that wield a lot of power irresponsibly can only be a step backwards for employee rights. Companies already try to get away with murder.

IMHO

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

usually in the contact centre world, the people with the 'headsets on' are performance managed by statistics to within an inch of their life.... however, from first line management and above, often lesser so and that is wrong, performance management should be top down, not bottom up.

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By *icketysplits OP   Woman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Thanks for all of your comments so far.

I have always tried to ensure that part-time and temporary staff benefit from limited sick leave and holiday leave. However, I have found the recent changes cumbersome and it is a little ridiculous that to cover myself I now include it on consultancy work that will go over 12 weeks if I am their main employer.

I don't think diluting the termination requirements is a useful way forward for anyone. Done properly you can get rid of anyone and not face an ET.

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By *andyguy59Man
over a year ago

Gatwick

"Done properly you can get rid of anyone and not face an ET."

Yep agree - you just have to know what you are doing....and a lot of supposedly trained HR (does that stand for Human Remains?) staff don't seem to be able to get it right.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Will making it easier for employers to sack staff improve the economy?"

It might make the lazy ones work harder and improve productivity but there should always be good reasons for sacking someone.

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By *andyguy59Man
over a year ago

Gatwick

"It might make the lazy ones work harder and improve productivity but there should always be good reasons for sacking someone. "

Ah yes there SHOULD be. However in some organisations I've worked, I've seen people sacked for having a personality clash with a manager or being seen as a threat by their manager rather than not being able to do their job. When HR look hard enough they can still find a way of doing it.....

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By *bfoxxxMan
over a year ago

Crete or LANCASTER


"As someone who has just experienced being unfairly dismissed, even after 2.5 years service I believe its short sighted to give employers further powers to hire and fire at will.

I have been a senior retail store manager for years, moved companies jan 2010 to join what I thought was a company based on ethics, culture and values. However the senior management in the UK operation are so far removed from the reality operating in its stores that it reacts with a knee jerk every time theres a problem. I was the 6th store manager to be persecuted by an inept area manager (bearing in mind we only had 12 stores) who refused to write down evidence from employees to the positive and took hearsay and speculation from disgruntled employees as fact. In the end I wasnt sacked for gross misconduct, but misconduct even though my record was clean. On appeal I was told I shouldnt have defended myself against these spurious accusations!

In the end a 20 year career was destroyed due to one man's conduct and capability. However I was vindicated recently when I won a substantial sum from the company, my dismissal was clearly unfair. Making it too easy for idiots that wield a lot of power irresponsibly can only be a step backwards for employee rights. Companies already try to get away with murder.

IMHO "

And now you are still fucked, although you won, by your employment record, and whatever you do, don't mention the Tribunal.

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