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"Good for you OP. I imagine better erections are the result of improved health overall and maybe confidence. I've been meat free for over 30 years. "I'd agree with this, must admit, it feels great ?? | |||
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"Quornography" That is funny ....... arf | |||
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"Quornography That is funny ....... arf" Plant it in here?  | |||
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"Try again. Anecdotal of course, gave up eating animal products 18 months ago and on top of losing weight, coming off Statins and BP meds, my erection is feels harder for longer and looks fuller when flaccid, both of which my saucy wife will attest to." I’d probably equate all those things to the weight loss, not the change to a vegan diet. But all great news either way | |||
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"Try again. Anecdotal of course, gave up eating animal products 18 months ago and on top of losing weight, coming off Statins and BP meds, my erection is feels harder for longer and looks fuller when flaccid, both of which my saucy wife will attest to. I’d probably equate all those things to the weight loss, not the change to a vegan diet. But all great news either way " Correct, the weight loss happened by magic. | |||
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"Try again. Anecdotal of course, gave up eating animal products 18 months ago and on top of losing weight, coming off Statins and BP meds, my erection is feels harder for longer and looks fuller when flaccid, both of which my saucy wife will attest to. I’d probably equate all those things to the weight loss, not the change to a vegan diet. But all great news either way Correct, the weight loss happened by magic." You can easily lose weight without a vegan diet... Been vegan doesn't equates to been healthier. There are no long term studies that show that been vegan is healthier. Nutrition is a very complex subject that not even the experts can come to a agreement of the best diet. So like you said is anecdotal... | |||
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" You can easily lose weight without a vegan diet... Been vegan doesn't equates to been healthier. There are no long term studies that show that been vegan is healthier. Nutrition is a very complex subject that not even the experts can come to a agreement of the best diet. So like you said is anecdotal..." Have I said you couldn't? The fact remains, I did use veganism to aid my weight loss. There are a host of studies that show the long term health benefits of a vegan diet, I've uploaded one such report just to evidence they exist https://www.nature.com/articles/s41398-019-0552-0 You're right about nutrition being complex, however we know (generally) enough about it to make informed choices so of course it is possible to eat poorly as a vegan though I'd guess most people that go down this route are interested in what they're eating. I started this journey more about getting fit, gradually stopped eating processed meats etc and ended up going vegan as a trial as I'd read it can aid muscle recovery after heavy exercise (it certainly works for me) I still keep to the correct ratio of carbs, proteins and fats in my diet, it's just I source them from non animal products. I know it's not for everyone but it works for me. *and my cock  | |||
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"Try again. Anecdotal of course, gave up eating animal products 18 months ago and on top of losing weight, coming off Statins and BP meds, my erection is feels harder for longer and looks fuller when flaccid, both of which my saucy wife will attest to. I’d probably equate all those things to the weight loss, not the change to a vegan diet. But all great news either way Correct, the weight loss happened by magic." I just think it’s important to have an unbiased view on it for other people The vegan diet helped you lose weight The weight loss caused lots of positive changes For anyone out there trying, you don’t need to do vegan to experience weight loss and get the positive changes. Weight loss is possible with any diet out there, and the benefits that come along with it are still available | |||
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"Good for you OP. I imagine better erections are the result of improved health overall and maybe confidence. I've been meat free for over 30 years. "Nothing wrong with your meat either  | |||
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"Good for you OP. I imagine better erections are the result of improved health overall and maybe confidence. I've been meat free for over 30 years.
Nothing wrong with your meat either "Well I know you ain't vegetarian  | |||
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"Good for you OP. I imagine better erections are the result of improved health overall and maybe confidence. I've been meat free for over 30 years.
Nothing wrong with your meat either
Well I know you ain't vegetarian "I wouldn't be able to be with the meat on offer Mr Blooms | |||
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"Try again. Anecdotal of course, gave up eating animal products 18 months ago and on top of losing weight, coming off Statins and BP meds, my erection is feels harder for longer and looks fuller when flaccid, both of which my saucy wife will attest to." OP that is great! Especially not needing statins and blood pressure medication anymore. I also feel stronger + healthier than ever following a vegan diet... It's funny because my mum told me i would die if i went vegan ... So much confusion +misconception!  | |||
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" You can easily lose weight without a vegan diet... Been vegan doesn't equates to been healthier. There are no long term studies that show that been vegan is healthier. Nutrition is a very complex subject that not even the experts can come to a agreement of the best diet. So like you said is anecdotal..." Eh, I think his point is he went vegan and is feeling healthier for it. I did the same almost two years ago, and agree with his points. Although I would agree with those who have suggested his weight loss has had the biggest impact. There is actually a lot of evidence and studies to show how a vegan diet is a healthier diet. Of course nutrition is complex, but in my experience vegans are far more aware of their nutrition than non vegans or vegetarians. | |||
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" You can easily lose weight without a vegan diet... Been vegan doesn't equates to been healthier. There are no long term studies that show that been vegan is healthier. Nutrition is a very complex subject that not even the experts can come to a agreement of the best diet. So like you said is anecdotal... Eh, I think his point is he went vegan and is feeling healthier for it. I did the same almost two years ago, and agree with his points. Although I would agree with those who have suggested his weight loss has had the biggest impact. There is actually a lot of evidence and studies to show how a vegan diet is a healthier diet. Of course nutrition is complex, but in my experience vegans are far more aware of their nutrition than non vegans or vegetarians." That’s normally because of the healthy user bias present in these types of studies. It’s a very hard bias to remove from big studies, almost impossible. So while we have some evidence suggesting it might be healthier, we’re no where close to definitely saying it is | |||
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" You can easily lose weight without a vegan diet... Been vegan doesn't equates to been healthier. There are no long term studies that show that been vegan is healthier. Nutrition is a very complex subject that not even the experts can come to a agreement of the best diet. So like you said is anecdotal... Have I said you couldn't? The fact remains, I did use veganism to aid my weight loss. There are a host of studies that show the long term health benefits of a vegan diet, I've uploaded one such report just to evidence they exist https://www.nature.com/articles/s41398-019-0552-0 You're right about nutrition being complex, however we know (generally) enough about it to make informed choices so of course it is possible to eat poorly as a vegan though I'd guess most people that go down this route are interested in what they're eating. I started this journey more about getting fit, gradually stopped eating processed meats etc and ended up going vegan as a trial as I'd read it can aid muscle recovery after heavy exercise (it certainly works for me) I still keep to the correct ratio of carbs, proteins and fats in my diet, it's just I source them from non animal products. I know it's not for everyone but it works for me. *and my cock "Erm just so you know that paper even though it's a really good paper about the benefits, actually doesn't state that and says there aren't any studies into the long term benefits. "We found robust evidence for short- to moderate-term beneficial effects of plant-based diets versus conventional diets (duration?=?24 months) on weight status, energy metabolism and systemic inflammation in healthy participants, obese and type-2 diabetes patients." | |||
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" You can easily lose weight without a vegan diet... Been vegan doesn't equates to been healthier. There are no long term studies that show that been vegan is healthier. Nutrition is a very complex subject that not even the experts can come to a agreement of the best diet. So like you said is anecdotal... Have I said you couldn't? The fact remains, I did use veganism to aid my weight loss. There are a host of studies that show the long term health benefits of a vegan diet, I've uploaded one such report just to evidence they exist https://www.nature.com/articles/s41398-019-0552-0 You're right about nutrition being complex, however we know (generally) enough about it to make informed choices so of course it is possible to eat poorly as a vegan though I'd guess most people that go down this route are interested in what they're eating. I started this journey more about getting fit, gradually stopped eating processed meats etc and ended up going vegan as a trial as I'd read it can aid muscle recovery after heavy exercise (it certainly works for me) I still keep to the correct ratio of carbs, proteins and fats in my diet, it's just I source them from non animal products. I know it's not for everyone but it works for me. *and my cock "The trouble with many of these studies is that comparing a vegan diet with a 'normal' one isn't a fair comparison. To eat vegan requires a high level of attention to what you eat, both to ensure it stays vegan and to ensure you recieve the nutrients you need which are often not readily available in vegan food. It isn't a fair comparison to look at someone who spends half their time in the supermarket checking labels and then goes home and researches what to eat to your average Joe who walks around Asda lobbing pizza and chips in their cart. They also don't tend to separate out meat eating from processed meat eating and it is becoming increasingly clear that many, if not all, of the harmful effects blamed on meat are actually caused by the preservatives used in processed meat. I am not in anyway knocking what you have achieved, I just believe that it is morally questionable to claim that going vegan is responsible for giving you a better hard on with the intention of convincing others that they should do the same. There is only one good and uncontestable argument for a vegan diet and that is animal welfare. Aside from that, just about every other benefit claimed by veganism could be achieved equally by paying the same attention to any diet as veganism demands. There simply isn't enough data to make other claims, we could spend all day referencing studies with opposite claims, all of which neither of us are qualified to understand. As above, the experts can't agree, despite huge amounts spent by the animal welfare loby to convince the world which suggests there simply isn't any proof. The other argument is that nature is pretty bloody efficient at ensuring organisms are perfectly adapted to their environment. It seems incredibly unlikely that homo sapiens some how bucked the process of evolution and despite a long evolutionary history of being omnivorous are actually better adapted to life as vegans. On that note and with reference to your comment on muscle recovery, I find it highly unlikely that we would evolve to cary out an incredibly strenuous activity like hunting only to then recover better from by eatng plants rather than the meat of whatever we've just caught ... Mr | |||
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"Try again. Anecdotal of course, gave up eating animal products 18 months ago and on top of losing weight, coming off Statins and BP meds, my erection is feels harder for longer and looks fuller when flaccid, both of which my saucy wife will attest to. I’d probably equate all those things to the weight loss, not the change to a vegan diet. But all great news either way Correct, the weight loss happened by magic. You can easily lose weight without a vegan diet... Been vegan doesn't equates to been healthier. There are no long term studies that show that been vegan is healthier. Nutrition is a very complex subject that not even the experts can come to a agreement of the best diet. So like you said is anecdotal..." Being vegan kind of does equate to being healthier there are many studies on this. Simply put your body has to produce more acid to break down animal products than non animal products. The by product of this acid is mucus where all diseases thrive. Less meat =less acid=less mucus = less sickness. Don’t get me wrong there are bad vegan products I.e soya. But you can do your own research to find what’s good for you | |||
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" You can easily lose weight without a vegan diet... Been vegan doesn't equates to been healthier. There are no long term studies that show that been vegan is healthier. Nutrition is a very complex subject that not even the experts can come to a agreement of the best diet. So like you said is anecdotal... Have I said you couldn't? The fact remains, I did use veganism to aid my weight loss. There are a host of studies that show the long term health benefits of a vegan diet, I've uploaded one such report just to evidence they exist https://www.nature.com/articles/s41398-019-0552-0 You're right about nutrition being complex, however we know (generally) enough about it to make informed choices so of course it is possible to eat poorly as a vegan though I'd guess most people that go down this route are interested in what they're eating. I started this journey more about getting fit, gradually stopped eating processed meats etc and ended up going vegan as a trial as I'd read it can aid muscle recovery after heavy exercise (it certainly works for me) I still keep to the correct ratio of carbs, proteins and fats in my diet, it's just I source them from non animal products. I know it's not for everyone but it works for me. *and my cock
The trouble with many of these studies is that comparing a vegan diet with a 'normal' one isn't a fair comparison. To eat vegan requires a high level of attention to what you eat, both to ensure it stays vegan and to ensure you recieve the nutrients you need which are often not readily available in vegan food. It isn't a fair comparison to look at someone who spends half their time in the supermarket checking labels and then goes home and researches what to eat to your average Joe who walks around Asda lobbing pizza and chips in their cart. They also don't tend to separate out meat eating from processed meat eating and it is becoming increasingly clear that many, if not all, of the harmful effects blamed on meat are actually caused by the preservatives used in processed meat.
I am not in anyway knocking what you have achieved, I just believe that it is morally questionable to claim that going vegan is responsible for giving you a better hard on with the intention of convincing others that they should do the same.
There is only one good and uncontestable argument for a vegan diet and that is animal welfare. Aside from that, just about every other benefit claimed by veganism could be achieved equally by paying the same attention to any diet as veganism demands. There simply isn't enough data to make other claims, we could spend all day referencing studies with opposite claims, all of which neither of us are qualified to understand. As above, the experts can't agree, despite huge amounts spent by the animal welfare loby to convince the world which suggests there simply isn't any proof.
The other argument is that nature is pretty bloody efficient at ensuring organisms are perfectly adapted to their environment. It seems incredibly unlikely that homo sapiens some how bucked the process of evolution and despite a long evolutionary history of being omnivorous are actually better adapted to life as vegans. On that note and with reference to your comment on muscle recovery, I find it highly unlikely that we would evolve to cary out an incredibly strenuous activity like hunting only to then recover better from by eatng plants rather than the meat of whatever we've just caught ...
Mr"In short Healthy user bias Vegans pay way more attention to the quality of their diet They are way less likely to smoke or so drugs, more likely to exercise, and overall more likely to just life a healthier life style That’s why it’s incredible hard to say vegan is better than non vegan. Because it’s so hard to separate the benefits of a vegan diet from the benefits of an overall healthy life style I’m not vegan, but I work a physical job, I exercise 6-8 times a week, and I eat nothing but complex carbs, lean cuts of beef, chicken, fish and fairly healthy fats. I’d say I’m pretty healthy | |||
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"Try again. Anecdotal of course, gave up eating animal products 18 months ago and on top of losing weight, coming off Statins and BP meds, my erection is feels harder for longer and looks fuller when flaccid, both of which my saucy wife will attest to. I’d probably equate all those things to the weight loss, not the change to a vegan diet. But all great news either way Correct, the weight loss happened by magic. You can easily lose weight without a vegan diet... Been vegan doesn't equates to been healthier. There are no long term studies that show that been vegan is healthier. Nutrition is a very complex subject that not even the experts can come to a agreement of the best diet. So like you said is anecdotal... Being vegan kind of does equate to being healthier there are many studies on this. Simply put your body has to produce more acid to break down animal products than non animal products. The by product of this acid is mucus where all diseases thrive. Less meat =less acid=less mucus = less sickness. Don’t get me wrong there are bad vegan products I.e soya. But you can do your own research to find what’s good for you "Ahhh yeah it just kinda does! Someone call science, tell them to stop the studies, this guts figured it all out It just kinda is more healthy!  | |||
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" Ahhh yeah it just kinda does! Someone call science, tell them to stop the studies, this guts figured it all out It just kinda is more healthy! "Exactly, it does make me smile how non vegans suddenly become experts on it. As for someone above who said a vegan diet needs attention, well yes but no more than any other diet. We all have (yes there will be exceptions) the same general needs, around 50/75% carbs, 20/30% protein and 10/15% fats, the margins are exactly because we're all different but do this and you won't go far wrong. Now before someone days Vitamin B12, it's true, there are no plant based sources for it so you need to supplement. What needs to be remembered is meat eaters used to get B12 because grazing animals ate in their diet, however modern farming methods have virtually eradicated it in the soil and it's now added as a supplement in cattle feed, so we're all taking a synthetic form of it. | |||
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"Try again. Anecdotal of course, gave up eating animal products 18 months ago and on top of losing weight, coming off Statins and BP meds, my erection is feels harder for longer and looks fuller when flaccid, both of which my saucy wife will attest to. I’d probably equate all those things to the weight loss, not the change to a vegan diet. But all great news either way Correct, the weight loss happened by magic. You can easily lose weight without a vegan diet... Been vegan doesn't equates to been healthier. There are no long term studies that show that been vegan is healthier. Nutrition is a very complex subject that not even the experts can come to a agreement of the best diet. So like you said is anecdotal... Being vegan kind of does equate to being healthier there are many studies on this. Simply put your body has to produce more acid to break down animal products than non animal products. The by product of this acid is mucus where all diseases thrive. Less meat =less acid=less mucus = less sickness. Don’t get me wrong there are bad vegan products I.e soya. But you can do your own research to find what’s good for you
Ahhh yeah it just kinda does!
Someone call science, tell them to stop the studies, this guts figured it all out
It just kinda is more healthy!
"I .. don’t know if your with me or against lol | |||
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"Try again. Anecdotal of course, gave up eating animal products 18 months ago and on top of losing weight, coming off Statins and BP meds, my erection is feels harder for longer and looks fuller when flaccid, both of which my saucy wife will attest to. I’d probably equate all those things to the weight loss, not the change to a vegan diet. But all great news either way Correct, the weight loss happened by magic. You can easily lose weight without a vegan diet... Been vegan doesn't equates to been healthier. There are no long term studies that show that been vegan is healthier. Nutrition is a very complex subject that not even the experts can come to a agreement of the best diet. So like you said is anecdotal... Being vegan kind of does equate to being healthier there are many studies on this. Simply put your body has to produce more acid to break down animal products than non animal products. The by product of this acid is mucus where all diseases thrive. Less meat =less acid=less mucus = less sickness. Don’t get me wrong there are bad vegan products I.e soya. But you can do your own research to find what’s good for you
Ahhh yeah it just kinda does!
Someone call science, tell them to stop the studies, this guts figured it all out
It just kinda is more healthy!
I .. don’t know if your with me or against lol "Against because you have no science backing up your claims With no science I could easily say that plant based food is actually harder to digest, which means more acid, more mucus, more illness Gotta back your stuff up if you wanna be taken seriously | |||
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" Ahhh yeah it just kinda does! Someone call science, tell them to stop the studies, this guts figured it all out It just kinda is more healthy!
Exactly, it does make me smile how non vegans suddenly become experts on it.
As for someone above who said a vegan diet needs attention, well yes but no more than any other diet.
We all have (yes there will be exceptions) the same general needs, around 50/75% carbs, 20/30% protein and 10/15% fats, the margins are exactly because we're all different but do this and you won't go far wrong.
Now before someone days Vitamin B12, it's true, there are no plant based sources for it so you need to supplement. What needs to be remembered is meat eaters used to get B12 because grazing animals ate in their diet, however modern farming methods have virtually eradicated it in the soil and it's now added as a supplement in cattle feed, so we're all taking a synthetic form of it.
"The experts out there all agree, there isn’t enough info to make a clear decision that going vegan is better. To my knowledge there’s more evidence to suggest that a vegetarian diet might be better, than a vegan diet. No one really knows yet. But what we do know is that weight loss is fantastic for health, and that can be achieved in any diet. | |||
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"There is only one good and uncontestable argument for a vegan diet and that is animal welfare. Aside from that, just about every other benefit claimed by veganism could be achieved equally by paying the same attention to any diet as veganism demands. There simply isn't enough data to make other claims, we could spend all day referencing studies with opposite claims, all of which neither of us are qualified to understand." Actually, in addition to animal welfare there is an absolutely massive body of evidence that shows if we all switched to vegan lifestyle we can stop global warming. There is also lots of evidence and studies to show the positive health benefits of a vegan diet. For example… Look up what happened in Norway during WW2 when the population was essentially forced to go vegan… and what happened once the reverted at the end. I went vegan for three reasons: 1. My own welfare 2. Animal welfare 3. Environmental welfare Being vegan isn’t so much a diet as lifestyle. | |||
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"Try again. Anecdotal of course, gave up eating animal products 18 months ago and on top of losing weight, coming off Statins and BP meds, my erection is feels harder for longer and looks fuller when flaccid, both of which my saucy wife will attest to. I’d probably equate all those things to the weight loss, not the change to a vegan diet. But all great news either way Correct, the weight loss happened by magic. You can easily lose weight without a vegan diet... Been vegan doesn't equates to been healthier. There are no long term studies that show that been vegan is healthier. Nutrition is a very complex subject that not even the experts can come to a agreement of the best diet. So like you said is anecdotal... Being vegan kind of does equate to being healthier there are many studies on this. Simply put your body has to produce more acid to break down animal products than non animal products. The by product of this acid is mucus where all diseases thrive. Less meat =less acid=less mucus = less sickness. Don’t get me wrong there are bad vegan products I.e soya. But you can do your own research to find what’s good for you
Ahhh yeah it just kinda does!
Someone call science, tell them to stop the studies, this guts figured it all out
It just kinda is more healthy!
I .. don’t know if your with me or against lol
Against because you have no science backing up your claims
With no science I could easily say that plant based food is actually harder to digest, which means more acid, more mucus, more illness
Gotta back your stuff up if you wanna be taken seriously "There’s literally so much scientific evidence out there, happy to share my sources | |||
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"Try again. Anecdotal of course, gave up eating animal products 18 months ago and on top of losing weight, coming off Statins and BP meds, my erection is feels harder for longer and looks fuller when flaccid, both of which my saucy wife will attest to. I’d probably equate all those things to the weight loss, not the change to a vegan diet. But all great news either way Correct, the weight loss happened by magic. You can easily lose weight without a vegan diet... Been vegan doesn't equates to been healthier. There are no long term studies that show that been vegan is healthier. Nutrition is a very complex subject that not even the experts can come to a agreement of the best diet. So like you said is anecdotal... Being vegan kind of does equate to being healthier there are many studies on this. Simply put your body has to produce more acid to break down animal products than non animal products. The by product of this acid is mucus where all diseases thrive. Less meat =less acid=less mucus = less sickness. Don’t get me wrong there are bad vegan products I.e soya. But you can do your own research to find what’s good for you
Ahhh yeah it just kinda does!
Someone call science, tell them to stop the studies, this guts figured it all out
It just kinda is more healthy!
I .. don’t know if your with me or against lol
Against because you have no science backing up your claims
With no science I could easily say that plant based food is actually harder to digest, which means more acid, more mucus, more illness
Gotta back your stuff up if you wanna be taken seriously "Look up Gerson therapy it’s been a successful way people have apparently cleared the body of cancer. It’s a diet change. That in itself if Gerson therapy is based on diet that it takes one from an acidic system to an alkaline system. | |||
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"Re the planet, its a bit more complex than that. Cutting down on meat consumption would absolutely help but there's a lot more to it than that. The problem with the argument that the planet would be better off if we all went vegan is that it tends to look at every single possible source of carbon in a meat based diet as it stands today, compare it to a somewhat abbreviated list of carbon sources in a plant based one and then scale up these numbers assuming they scale linearly. Would the planet be better off if we stopped chopping down rainforest for cattle ranching so Westerners can eat meat twice a day? Absolutely. Would converting the whole world vegan suddenly get solve the problems? No, not really. The BBC (who love to promote the whole vegetarian thing) actually ran an article a while back that came to the conclusion that eating locally produced food would have a bigger impact than going veggie. It's easy to complain about the carbon footprint of the meat industry whilst having a kitchen stocked with tomatoes from Spain, Cucumbers from China, Avocado from Kenya, sweet potato from Peru, grapes from Italy etc etc. I garuntee most vegan meals have a higher carbon footprint than steak and chips sourced from my local farm shop. Vegetarianism is often touted as the way to save the planet when in reality the issue isn't so much what we eat but how it's produced and where it comes from. It is easy to pick on one particular type of farming and find all its faults because all modern farming is a disaster for the planet - and that includes arable production. How much forest has been cleared for soy plantations, rice paddies and the like. The American mid West that was once home to 60 million wild bison (all busily farting methane) now has wheat and corn as far as the eye can see with not an insect in sight. Convincing people to eat local, seasonal produce would be far better for the planet but who wants to be told their oranges, grapes, melons, avocados are banned? More to the point, without modern factory farming we simply couldn't feed the population of the planet. Mr" I was speaking more towards personal health than planter being better off | |||
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"Try again. Anecdotal of course, gave up eating animal products 18 months ago and on top of losing weight, coming off Statins and BP meds, my erection is feels harder for longer and looks fuller when flaccid, both of which my saucy wife will attest to. I’d probably equate all those things to the weight loss, not the change to a vegan diet. But all great news either way Correct, the weight loss happened by magic. You can easily lose weight without a vegan diet... Been vegan doesn't equates to been healthier. There are no long term studies that show that been vegan is healthier. Nutrition is a very complex subject that not even the experts can come to a agreement of the best diet. So like you said is anecdotal... Being vegan kind of does equate to being healthier there are many studies on this. Simply put your body has to produce more acid to break down animal products than non animal products. The by product of this acid is mucus where all diseases thrive. Less meat =less acid=less mucus = less sickness. Don’t get me wrong there are bad vegan products I.e soya. But you can do your own research to find what’s good for you
Ahhh yeah it just kinda does!
Someone call science, tell them to stop the studies, this guts figured it all out
It just kinda is more healthy!
I .. don’t know if your with me or against lol
Against because you have no science backing up your claims
With no science I could easily say that plant based food is actually harder to digest, which means more acid, more mucus, more illness
Gotta back your stuff up if you wanna be taken seriously
Look up Gerson therapy it’s been a successful way people have apparently cleared the body of cancer. It’s a diet change. That in itself if Gerson therapy is based on diet that it takes one from an acidic system to an alkaline system. " Dr Sebi has a lot of works done on the alkaline system | |||
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"Try again. Anecdotal of course, gave up eating animal products 18 months ago and on top of losing weight, coming off Statins and BP meds, my erection is feels harder for longer and looks fuller when flaccid, both of which my saucy wife will attest to. I’d probably equate all those things to the weight loss, not the change to a vegan diet. But all great news either way Correct, the weight loss happened by magic. You can easily lose weight without a vegan diet... Been vegan doesn't equates to been healthier. There are no long term studies that show that been vegan is healthier. Nutrition is a very complex subject that not even the experts can come to a agreement of the best diet. So like you said is anecdotal... Being vegan kind of does equate to being healthier there are many studies on this. Simply put your body has to produce more acid to break down animal products than non animal products. The by product of this acid is mucus where all diseases thrive. Less meat =less acid=less mucus = less sickness. Don’t get me wrong there are bad vegan products I.e soya. But you can do your own research to find what’s good for you
Ahhh yeah it just kinda does!
Someone call science, tell them to stop the studies, this guts figured it all out
It just kinda is more healthy!
I .. don’t know if your with me or against lol
Against because you have no science backing up your claims
With no science I could easily say that plant based food is actually harder to digest, which means more acid, more mucus, more illness
Gotta back your stuff up if you wanna be taken seriously
Look up Gerson therapy it’s been a successful way people have apparently cleared the body of cancer. It’s a diet change. That in itself if Gerson therapy is based on diet that it takes one from an acidic system to an alkaline system. "When people start claiming to have the cure for cancer is about the time I start to disengage... Mr | |||
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"Try again. Anecdotal of course, gave up eating animal products 18 months ago and on top of losing weight, coming off Statins and BP meds, my erection is feels harder for longer and looks fuller when flaccid, both of which my saucy wife will attest to. I’d probably equate all those things to the weight loss, not the change to a vegan diet. But all great news either way Correct, the weight loss happened by magic. You can easily lose weight without a vegan diet... Been vegan doesn't equates to been healthier. There are no long term studies that show that been vegan is healthier. Nutrition is a very complex subject that not even the experts can come to a agreement of the best diet. So like you said is anecdotal... Being vegan kind of does equate to being healthier there are many studies on this. Simply put your body has to produce more acid to break down animal products than non animal products. The by product of this acid is mucus where all diseases thrive. Less meat =less acid=less mucus = less sickness. Don’t get me wrong there are bad vegan products I.e soya. But you can do your own research to find what’s good for you
Ahhh yeah it just kinda does!
Someone call science, tell them to stop the studies, this guts figured it all out
It just kinda is more healthy!
I .. don’t know if your with me or against lol
Against because you have no science backing up your claims
With no science I could easily say that plant based food is actually harder to digest, which means more acid, more mucus, more illness
Gotta back your stuff up if you wanna be taken seriously
Look up Gerson therapy it’s been a successful way people have apparently cleared the body of cancer. It’s a diet change. That in itself if Gerson therapy is based on diet that it takes one from an acidic system to an alkaline system.
When people start claiming to have the cure for cancer is about the time I start to disengage...
Mr"He didn’t say cure he said cleared. Your GP will tell you your diet could help | |||
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"Try again. Anecdotal of course, gave up eating animal products 18 months ago and on top of losing weight, coming off Statins and BP meds, my erection is feels harder for longer and looks fuller when flaccid, both of which my saucy wife will attest to. I’d probably equate all those things to the weight loss, not the change to a vegan diet. But all great news either way Correct, the weight loss happened by magic. You can easily lose weight without a vegan diet... Been vegan doesn't equates to been healthier. There are no long term studies that show that been vegan is healthier. Nutrition is a very complex subject that not even the experts can come to a agreement of the best diet. So like you said is anecdotal... Being vegan kind of does equate to being healthier there are many studies on this. Simply put your body has to produce more acid to break down animal products than non animal products. The by product of this acid is mucus where all diseases thrive. Less meat =less acid=less mucus = less sickness. Don’t get me wrong there are bad vegan products I.e soya. But you can do your own research to find what’s good for you
Ahhh yeah it just kinda does!
Someone call science, tell them to stop the studies, this guts figured it all out
It just kinda is more healthy!
I .. don’t know if your with me or against lol
Against because you have no science backing up your claims
With no science I could easily say that plant based food is actually harder to digest, which means more acid, more mucus, more illness
Gotta back your stuff up if you wanna be taken seriously
Look up Gerson therapy it’s been a successful way people have apparently cleared the body of cancer. It’s a diet change. That in itself if Gerson therapy is based on diet that it takes one from an acidic system to an alkaline system.
Dr Sebi has a lot of works done on the alkaline system"Maybe read up on body homeostasis | |||
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"Try again. Anecdotal of course, gave up eating animal products 18 months ago and on top of losing weight, coming off Statins and BP meds, my erection is feels harder for longer and looks fuller when flaccid, both of which my saucy wife will attest to. I’d probably equate all those things to the weight loss, not the change to a vegan diet. But all great news either way Correct, the weight loss happened by magic. You can easily lose weight without a vegan diet... Been vegan doesn't equates to been healthier. There are no long term studies that show that been vegan is healthier. Nutrition is a very complex subject that not even the experts can come to a agreement of the best diet. So like you said is anecdotal... Being vegan kind of does equate to being healthier there are many studies on this. Simply put your body has to produce more acid to break down animal products than non animal products. The by product of this acid is mucus where all diseases thrive. Less meat =less acid=less mucus = less sickness. Don’t get me wrong there are bad vegan products I.e soya. But you can do your own research to find what’s good for you
Ahhh yeah it just kinda does!
Someone call science, tell them to stop the studies, this guts figured it all out
It just kinda is more healthy!
I .. don’t know if your with me or against lol
Against because you have no science backing up your claims
With no science I could easily say that plant based food is actually harder to digest, which means more acid, more mucus, more illness
Gotta back your stuff up if you wanna be taken seriously
Look up Gerson therapy it’s been a successful way people have apparently cleared the body of cancer. It’s a diet change. That in itself if Gerson therapy is based on diet that it takes one from an acidic system to an alkaline system. "They never link a study do they? It’s always “do your research” or “look up this snake oil salesman”. Studies man, no ones can believe anything without the studies to back it up, and I’m almost certain the whole acid/alkaline body thing was massively debunked as a scam This is why as a former PT and dietician I hate the industry. People just out there posting nonsense and it confuses the masses. They never back it up, just senseless claims | |||
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"Try again. Anecdotal of course, gave up eating animal products 18 months ago and on top of losing weight, coming off Statins and BP meds, my erection is feels harder for longer and looks fuller when flaccid, both of which my saucy wife will attest to. I’d probably equate all those things to the weight loss, not the change to a vegan diet. But all great news either way Correct, the weight loss happened by magic. You can easily lose weight without a vegan diet... Been vegan doesn't equates to been healthier. There are no long term studies that show that been vegan is healthier. Nutrition is a very complex subject that not even the experts can come to a agreement of the best diet. So like you said is anecdotal... Being vegan kind of does equate to being healthier there are many studies on this. Simply put your body has to produce more acid to break down animal products than non animal products. The by product of this acid is mucus where all diseases thrive. Less meat =less acid=less mucus = less sickness. Don’t get me wrong there are bad vegan products I.e soya. But you can do your own research to find what’s good for you
Ahhh yeah it just kinda does!
Someone call science, tell them to stop the studies, this guts figured it all out
It just kinda is more healthy!
I .. don’t know if your with me or against lol
Against because you have no science backing up your claims
With no science I could easily say that plant based food is actually harder to digest, which means more acid, more mucus, more illness
Gotta back your stuff up if you wanna be taken seriously
There’s literally so much scientific evidence out there, happy to share my sources "Post it all support that animal products create more acid which creates more mucus which creates more illness That’s what you’ve stated, so show me the studies. I’ll wait | |||
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" I garuntee most vegan meals have a higher carbon footprint than steak and chips sourced from my local farm shop. " Bullshit. | |||
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"Try again. Anecdotal of course, gave up eating animal products 18 months ago and on top of losing weight, coming off Statins and BP meds, my erection is feels harder for longer and looks fuller when flaccid, both of which my saucy wife will attest to." Good for you? How are you finding it so far apart from harder for longer? I’ve been vegan for 7 years now. | |||
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"Try again. Anecdotal of course, gave up eating animal products 18 months ago and on top of losing weight, coming off Statins and BP meds, my erection is feels harder for longer and looks fuller when flaccid, both of which my saucy wife will attest to. Good for you? How are you finding it so far apart from harder for longer? I’ve been vegan for 7 years now. "Can't see any downsides, muscle recovery as I mentioned before is fantastic, did a 20 mile run on Saturday and then 5 miles yesterday with 10 x 1 min sprints, never been fitter. The fact my cholesterol is at a point were I no longer need Statins and am off BP meds which I'd be taking for 10 years previously. When you add in the positive environmental impact and on the animals it's hard to argue against it. I would also mention, I've always liked cooking so I've enjoyed finding new flavour combinations, made this last weekend, beer battered King Oyster mushrooms,fantastic. Made the burger version then had the leftovers with garlic roast potatoes https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/plant-based-vegan-battered-mushrooms-b1908357.html | |||
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"I garuntee most vegan meals have a higher carbon footprint than steak and chips sourced from my local farm shop." I'd also guarantee that locally sourced veg bought from a farm shop has a lower carbon footprint than the steak, that's of you really want to compare apples with apples. This popped up on my feed today https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/sep/13/meat-greenhouses-gases-food-production-study Now before anyone rolls their eyes at the guardian (I can understand why) they are only reporting the research done elsewhere, it wasn't them. | |||
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"I garuntee most vegan meals have a higher carbon footprint than steak and chips sourced from my local farm shop. I'd also guarantee that locally sourced veg bought from a farm shop has a lower carbon footprint than the steak, that's of you really want to compare apples with apples. This popped up on my feed today https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/sep/13/meat-greenhouses-gases-food-production-study Now before anyone rolls their eyes at the guardian (I can understand why) they are only reporting the research done elsewhere, it wasn't them." Just out of interest, what’s your opinion on lab grown meat? It seems to be the future, it’ll be very economically friendly, cost friendly, and it allows all the benefits of meat/fish without any of the cruelty behind it Let’s say in 20 years it was perfected and it’s all that was sold, would you consider switching back to a diet that involved meat? Or maybe fish? | |||
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"I garuntee most vegan meals have a higher carbon footprint than steak and chips sourced from my local farm shop. I'd also guarantee that locally sourced veg bought from a farm shop has a lower carbon footprint than the steak, that's of you really want to compare apples with apples. This popped up on my feed today https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/sep/13/meat-greenhouses-gases-food-production-study Now before anyone rolls their eyes at the guardian (I can understand why) they are only reporting the research done elsewhere, it wasn't them. Just out of interest, what’s your opinion on lab grown meat? It seems to be the future, it’ll be very economically friendly, cost friendly, and it allows all the benefits of meat/fish without any of the cruelty behind it Let’s say in 20 years it was perfected and it’s all that was sold, would you consider switching back to a diet that involved meat? Or maybe fish? " We originally switched to plants as a health experiment and stuck with it on the basis we felt it had benefits for us - more energy, not feeling stodgy & bloated, quicker recovery etc. etc. I think the synthetic meat thing is necessary for future sustainability but as to whether I'd personally eat it I think it would depend on whether I felt I'd continue to have the benefits that I've gained from not having eaten meat & dairy. | |||
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"I garuntee most vegan meals have a higher carbon footprint than steak and chips sourced from my local farm shop. I'd also guarantee that locally sourced veg bought from a farm shop has a lower carbon footprint than the steak, that's of you really want to compare apples with apples. This popped up on my feed today https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/sep/13/meat-greenhouses-gases-food-production-study Now before anyone rolls their eyes at the guardian (I can understand why) they are only reporting the research done elsewhere, it wasn't them." It's a nonsense to try & claim that growing plants to feed up an animal over months/years somehow has less of an environmental impact than growing plants for humans to eat direct. I doubt very much that the person making that claim has much idea as to what 'most vegans meals' are either. | |||
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"I garuntee most vegan meals have a higher carbon footprint than steak and chips sourced from my local farm shop. I'd also guarantee that locally sourced veg bought from a farm shop has a lower carbon footprint than the steak, that's of you really want to compare apples with apples. This popped up on my feed today https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/sep/13/meat-greenhouses-gases-food-production-study Now before anyone rolls their eyes at the guardian (I can understand why) they are only reporting the research done elsewhere, it wasn't them. Just out of interest, what’s your opinion on lab grown meat? It seems to be the future, it’ll be very economically friendly, cost friendly, and it allows all the benefits of meat/fish without any of the cruelty behind it Let’s say in 20 years it was perfected and it’s all that was sold, would you consider switching back to a diet that involved meat? Or maybe fish? We originally switched to plants as a health experiment and stuck with it on the basis we felt it had benefits for us - more energy, not feeling stodgy & bloated, quicker recovery etc. etc. I think the synthetic meat thing is necessary for future sustainability but as to whether I'd personally eat it I think it would depend on whether I felt I'd continue to have the benefits that I've gained from not having eaten meat & dairy." Do you think the benefits come from exclusively removing meats? Or do you think it’s come from the increased attention to quality foods that comes with going vegan? Oreos are vegan, if you ate nothing but Oreos do you think you’d still feel good, since they have no animal products in them? Do you think it’s possible that a diet with healthy lean cuts of meat, fatty fish and plenty of veggies could possibly be as good as vegan? My friend is a serious, professional strongman. One of the best in the workd. He’s vegan. So I believe it’s not a negative. | |||
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"Do you think the benefits come from exclusively removing meats? Or do you think it’s come from the increased attention to quality foods that comes with going vegan? " Bit of both. Probably mostly related to increased plants & diversity of foods etc. but I think there is some benefit to cutting out meat & dairy. I did eat fish for a while after I'd stopped eating meat & dairy but I wouldn't go back to it now. "Oreos are vegan, if you ate nothing but Oreos do you think you’d still feel good, since they have no animal products in them? " I don't feel that great if I eat more than four Oreos, they're too sickly. "Do you think it’s possible that a diet with healthy lean cuts of meat, fatty fish and plenty of veggies could possibly be as good as vegan? " Depends what you mean by good. Personally I don't believe that meat or fish would improve my diet. Besides how I feel there are practical benefits such as not worrying about food poisoning plus my food has never tasted better and I get to eat absolutely loads! | |||
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" Just out of interest, what’s your opinion on lab grown meat? It seems to be the future, it’ll be very economically friendly, cost friendly, and it allows all the benefits of meat/fish without any of the cruelty behind it Let’s say in 20 years it was perfected and it’s all that was sold, would you consider switching back to a diet that involved meat? Or maybe fish? We originally switched to plants as a health experiment and stuck with it on the basis we felt it had benefits for us - more energy, not feeling stodgy & bloated, quicker recovery etc. etc. I think the synthetic meat thing is necessary for future sustainability but as to whether I'd personally eat it I think it would depend on whether I felt I'd continue to have the benefits that I've gained from not having eaten meat & dairy. Do you think the benefits come from exclusively removing meats? Or do you think it’s come from the increased attention to quality foods that comes with going vegan? Oreos are vegan, if you ate nothing but Oreos do you think you’d still feel good, since they have no animal products in them? Do you think it’s possible that a diet with healthy lean cuts of meat, fatty fish and plenty of veggies could possibly be as good as vegan? My friend is a serious, professional strongman. One of the best in the workd. He’s vegan. So I believe it’s not a negative." I'll try to answer all your questions in order. Lab grown meat, yes I understand it takes away the animal suffering issue though the additional factor for me (again anecdotal) is the vastly improved muscle recovery from not eating animal derived foods. Maybe when I'm done with long distance running I'll look at it with some seriousness but for now, it's not an option for me. Which answers the question about the benefits solely coming from not eating meat, following a balanced diet which includes meat and I'm talking lean cuts etc then there shouldn't be anything detrimental to anyone's health. Again the difference in muscle recovery for people who exercise hard is an added benefit. It's definitely worth a go. In my opinion and my experience I don't think a diet consisting of lean meats, fatty fish and veggies is as good for you as a vegan diet. That's not to say it's a bad diet far from it, just that I think a vegan diet is better. Of course if you eat just Oreos... | |||
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" Just out of interest, what’s your opinion on lab grown meat? It seems to be the future, it’ll be very economically friendly, cost friendly, and it allows all the benefits of meat/fish without any of the cruelty behind it Let’s say in 20 years it was perfected and it’s all that was sold, would you consider switching back to a diet that involved meat? Or maybe fish? We originally switched to plants as a health experiment and stuck with it on the basis we felt it had benefits for us - more energy, not feeling stodgy & bloated, quicker recovery etc. etc. I think the synthetic meat thing is necessary for future sustainability but as to whether I'd personally eat it I think it would depend on whether I felt I'd continue to have the benefits that I've gained from not having eaten meat & dairy. Do you think the benefits come from exclusively removing meats? Or do you think it’s come from the increased attention to quality foods that comes with going vegan? Oreos are vegan, if you ate nothing but Oreos do you think you’d still feel good, since they have no animal products in them? Do you think it’s possible that a diet with healthy lean cuts of meat, fatty fish and plenty of veggies could possibly be as good as vegan? My friend is a serious, professional strongman. One of the best in the workd. He’s vegan. So I believe it’s not a negative. I'll try to answer all your questions in order. Lab grown meat, yes I understand it takes away the animal suffering issue though the additional factor for me (again anecdotal) is the vastly improved muscle recovery from not eating animal derived foods. Maybe when I'm done with long distance running I'll look at it with some seriousness but for now, it's not an option for me. Which answers the question about the benefits solely coming from not eating meat, following a balanced diet which includes meat and I'm talking lean cuts etc then there shouldn't be anything detrimental to anyone's health. Again the difference in muscle recovery for people who exercise hard is an added benefit. It's definitely worth a go. In my opinion and my experience I don't think a diet consisting of lean meats, fatty fish and veggies is as good for you as a vegan diet. That's not to say it's a bad diet far from it, just that I think a vegan diet is better. Of course if you eat just Oreos... " Like I says it just begs the question, if removal of animal products is why the diet is better, surely a diet of Oreos should be great? But again, I know that’s a silly arguenebt, and I appreciate that you admit it’s anecdotal evidence Whatever makes everyone happy | |||
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"Do you think the benefits come from exclusively removing meats? Or do you think it’s come from the increased attention to quality foods that comes with going vegan? Bit of both. Probably mostly related to increased plants & diversity of foods etc. but I think there is some benefit to cutting out meat & dairy. I did eat fish for a while after I'd stopped eating meat & dairy but I wouldn't go back to it now. Oreos are vegan, if you ate nothing but Oreos do you think you’d still feel good, since they have no animal products in them? I don't feel that great if I eat more than four Oreos, they're too sickly. Do you think it’s possible that a diet with healthy lean cuts of meat, fatty fish and plenty of veggies could possibly be as good as vegan? Depends what you mean by good. Personally I don't believe that meat or fish would improve my diet. Besides how I feel there are practical benefits such as not worrying about food poisoning plus my food has never tasted better and I get to eat absolutely loads!" Well that’s great news then! For me I just struggle to find many serious professional athlete going vegan. There’s some, but look at all the top players in rugby, football, NFL, olympics, CrossFit, you’ll find very, very few vegans. But again, it’s whatever makes someone feel best, and you can never argue that it’s better for animals | |||
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"Well that’s great news then! For me I just struggle to find many serious professional athlete going vegan. There’s some, but look at all the top players in rugby, football, NFL, olympics, CrossFit, you’ll find very, very few vegans. But again, it’s whatever makes someone feel best, and you can never argue that it’s better for animals " I think there's enough professional athletes on a vegan diet to take confidence in it as an option. I tend to look at it the other way though and when I look around I don't see much good evidence that the majority diet is a good one. | |||
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"6 years vegan and no noticeable changes for me, don’t eat a lot of junk though and usually exercise every day. - Adam" Hi Adam As I said, it is only anecdotal and going off your age (under 30) you do still enjoy the gifts of youth, keep it up (take that anyway you like). I'm 54, at 51 I weighed almost 20st, a combination of a non physical job, almost zero exercise, bar walking the dogs. My diet wasn't great but not really that bad, always been a keen home cook so takeaways etc probably a once a month thing and far too much alcohol. Started a nought to 10k and vastly reduced my alcohol intake as it was seriously getting in the way of training, you just don't recover the same as you age and eventually gave it up, I guess that was my first step in making a real change to my health. I then started cutting out processed meats, bacon, sausages and the like and while I watched Netflix's The Game Changers about the benefits of a vegan diet I largely took it with a pinch of salt but as I read more about the effect of free radicals on muscle recovery (mainly encountered from eating meat and dairy products) i decided the only way to find out was to give it a go and as I mentioned above, the change in me was fantastic. Trained for and ran my first marathon at 53 and doing Manchester next month. Also and you're probably aware, we tend to lose up to 3% of muscle mass for every year after 30 so my reasons for doing it where more urgent than yours, of course you can retard that muscle loss if you are already exercising and keep it up. I did not, though I'm thankful I kept the walking up as it meant I wasn't totally knackered ??. Scot Jurek's story is interesting, a successful ultra marathon runner and vegan since 99. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Jurek | |||
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"Well that’s great news then! For me I just struggle to find many serious professional athlete going vegan. There’s some, but look at all the top players in rugby, football, NFL, olympics, CrossFit, you’ll find very, very few vegans. But again, it’s whatever makes someone feel best, and you can never argue that it’s better for animals I think there's enough professional athletes on a vegan diet to take confidence in it as an option. I tend to look at it the other way though and when I look around I don't see much good evidence that the majority diet is a good one." That fair, my opinion is that if you follow the money where absolute health and performance is what drives the dollars, like in professional athletes, the vast majority aren’t vegan. And when millions come into play, these guys do everything in their power to win. That being said, I don’t think vegan is a bad diet, I think it’s difficult to do right, I think it’s very restrictive, and I think for the average person it’s not going to bring the results they want due to the difficulty and restrictiveness If I was going to take a guess, I think the healthiest diet might be some form of vegetarian that still eats fish. But again, it’s just a guess. Until more studies are done, and studies where the health user bias is eliminated, I don’t think we will ever know for sure. But ultimately if it helps anyone, more power to them. I’m not a big fan of the keto diet. It’s shrouded in myths and false statements. It’s been proven to be no more effective for weight loss than any other diet, but if it helps someone lose a bunch of weight then I can’t get mad at it More power to whatever makes you feel best | |||
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" That being said, I don’t think vegan is a bad diet, I think it’s difficult to do right, I think it’s very restrictive, and I think for the average person it’s not going to bring the results they want due to the difficulty and restrictiveness If I was going to take a guess, I think the healthiest diet might be some form of vegetarian that still eats fish. But again, it’s just a guess. " interested in what is it about the vegetarian /fish combination that you think is healthier over just a vegan option ? | |||
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" That being said, I don’t think vegan is a bad diet, I think it’s difficult to do right, I think it’s very restrictive, and I think for the average person it’s not going to bring the results they want due to the difficulty and restrictiveness If I was going to take a guess, I think the healthiest diet might be some form of vegetarian that still eats fish. But again, it’s just a guess. interested in what is it about the vegetarian /fish combination that you think is healthier over just a vegan option ? " I think fish and animal products contain lots of very dense nutrients we often struggle to fry in a vegan diet That’s not to say you can’t get them from a vegan diet, but if we are talking the average person, or a high demand athlete, they are gonna have an advantage having cuts of fatty fish, eggs, cheese, yogurts, etc etc | |||
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" That being said, I don’t think vegan is a bad diet, I think it’s difficult to do right, I think it’s very restrictive, and I think for the average person it’s not going to bring the results they want due to the difficulty and restrictiveness If I was going to take a guess, I think the healthiest diet might be some form of vegetarian that still eats fish. But again, it’s just a guess. interested in what is it about the vegetarian /fish combination that you think is healthier over just a vegan option ? I think fish and animal products contain lots of very dense nutrients we often struggle to fry in a vegan diet That’s not to say you can’t get them from a vegan diet, but if we are talking the average person, or a high demand athlete, they are gonna have an advantage having cuts of fatty fish, eggs, cheese, yogurts, etc etc " And much easier access to protein with the full amino acid profile, something people often with in the vegan diet too | |||
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" Hi Adam As I said, it is only anecdotal and going off your age (under 30) you do still enjoy the gifts of youth, keep it up (take that anyway you like). I'm 54, at 51 I weighed almost 20st, a combination of a non physical job, almost zero exercise, bar walking the dogs. My diet wasn't great but not really that bad, always been a keen home cook so takeaways etc probably a once a month thing and far too much alcohol. Started a nought to 10k and vastly reduced my alcohol intake as it was seriously getting in the way of training, you just don't recover the same as you age and eventually gave it up, I guess that was my first step in making a real change to my health. I then started cutting out processed meats, bacon, sausages and the like and while I watched Netflix's The Game Changers about the benefits of a vegan diet I largely took it with a pinch of salt but as I read more about the effect of free radicals on muscle recovery (mainly encountered from eating meat and dairy products) i decided the only way to find out was to give it a go and as I mentioned above, the change in me was fantastic. Trained for and ran my first marathon at 53 and doing Manchester next month. Also and you're probably aware, we tend to lose up to 3% of muscle mass for every year after 30 so my reasons for doing it where more urgent than yours, of course you can retard that muscle loss if you are already exercising and keep it up. I did not, though I'm thankful I kept the walking up as it meant I wasn't totally knackered ??. Scot Jurek's story is interesting, a successful ultra marathon runner and vegan since 99. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Jurek " That’s great that’s it’s working for you. I’m not saying it doesn’t help, just from my experience I didn’t see a difference. I trained and got lots of data pre vegan but not as serious now post vegan, but it would have been good to look at the numbers to see if there was a difference for me in the numbers. One argument that doesn’t hold water is that you can’t compete at the top level being vegan. | |||
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"I garuntee most vegan meals have a higher carbon footprint than steak and chips sourced from my local farm shop. I'd also guarantee that locally sourced veg bought from a farm shop has a lower carbon footprint than the steak, that's of you really want to compare apples with apples. This popped up on my feed today https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/sep/13/meat-greenhouses-gases-food-production-study Now before anyone rolls their eyes at the guardian (I can understand why) they are only reporting the research done elsewhere, it wasn't them. It's a nonsense to try & claim that growing plants to feed up an animal over months/years somehow has less of an environmental impact than growing plants for humans to eat direct. I doubt very much that the person making that claim has much idea as to what 'most vegans meals' are either." You don't have to grow plants to feed animals. They're quite happy grazing on grass in environments like the Welsh uplands that are massive carbon sinks. This is the problem with the anti meat lobby, you'll get a carbon footprint for say beef which includes factory farmed cows, the impact of deforestation for grazing land, the growth of feed stock - everything in fact which ignores the fact that in the UK a lot of livestock is reared and fed on land that isn't suitable for anything else. They strangely never include the impact of the deforestation that has been done for growing fashionable 'superfoods' the social impact for example on Mexicans where a staple of their diet (the avacardo) is worth more than most can afford. I agree, meat production is a far higher source of carbon than growing plants but as I did above, a lot of that is to do with the methods used and comparing the worst methods of meat production with the greenest methods of plant production which is what the majority of these articles do is unfair, inaccurate and ignores other significant problems like poverty, not to mention huge environmental problems like water use. Mr | |||
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"I garuntee most vegan meals have a higher carbon footprint than steak and chips sourced from my local farm shop. I'd also guarantee that locally sourced veg bought from a farm shop has a lower carbon footprint than the steak, that's of you really want to compare apples with apples. This popped up on my feed today https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/sep/13/meat-greenhouses-gases-food-production-study Now before anyone rolls their eyes at the guardian (I can understand why) they are only reporting the research done elsewhere, it wasn't them. It's a nonsense to try & claim that growing plants to feed up an animal over months/years somehow has less of an environmental impact than growing plants for humans to eat direct. I doubt very much that the person making that claim has much idea as to what 'most vegans meals' are either. You don't have to grow plants to feed animals. They're quite happy grazing on grass in environments like the Welsh uplands that are massive carbon sinks. This is the problem with the anti meat lobby, you'll get a carbon footprint for say beef which includes factory farmed cows, the impact of deforestation for grazing land, the growth of feed stock - everything in fact which ignores the fact that in the UK a lot of livestock is reared and fed on land that isn't suitable for anything else. They strangely never include the impact of the deforestation that has been done for growing fashionable 'superfoods' the social impact for example on Mexicans where a staple of their diet (the avacardo) is worth more than most can afford. I agree, meat production is a far higher source of carbon than growing plants but as I did above, a lot of that is to do with the methods used and comparing the worst methods of meat production with the greenest methods of plant production which is what the majority of these articles do is unfair, inaccurate and ignores other significant problems like poverty, not to mention huge environmental problems like water use. Mr" You do know that grass is a plant? You also know that it takes twice as long to rear grass fed cattle as grain? Happy for you to compare the best methods of meat production with the best methods of plant production and interested to hear what you discover?... | |||
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"I garuntee most vegan meals have a higher carbon footprint than steak and chips sourced from my local farm shop. I'd also guarantee that locally sourced veg bought from a farm shop has a lower carbon footprint than the steak, that's of you really want to compare apples with apples. This popped up on my feed today https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/sep/13/meat-greenhouses-gases-food-production-study Now before anyone rolls their eyes at the guardian (I can understand why) they are only reporting the research done elsewhere, it wasn't them. It's a nonsense to try & claim that growing plants to feed up an animal over months/years somehow has less of an environmental impact than growing plants for humans to eat direct. I doubt very much that the person making that claim has much idea as to what 'most vegans meals' are either. You don't have to grow plants to feed animals. They're quite happy grazing on grass in environments like the Welsh uplands that are massive carbon sinks. This is the problem with the anti meat lobby, you'll get a carbon footprint for say beef which includes factory farmed cows, the impact of deforestation for grazing land, the growth of feed stock - everything in fact which ignores the fact that in the UK a lot of livestock is reared and fed on land that isn't suitable for anything else. They strangely never include the impact of the deforestation that has been done for growing fashionable 'superfoods' the social impact for example on Mexicans where a staple of their diet (the avacardo) is worth more than most can afford. I agree, meat production is a far higher source of carbon than growing plants but as I did above, a lot of that is to do with the methods used and comparing the worst methods of meat production with the greenest methods of plant production which is what the majority of these articles do is unfair, inaccurate and ignores other significant problems like poverty, not to mention huge environmental problems like water use. Mr You do know that grass is a plant? You also know that it takes twice as long to rear grass fed cattle as grain? Happy for you to compare the best methods of meat production with the best methods of plant production and interested to hear what you discover?... " Yes, it is indeed a plant, one that's been busily growing and absorbing carbon from the atmosphere. But if course that doesn't count does it? We have to measure every fart the cow produces but never question where the carbon in that fart has come from. It's almost like cows are some kind of alchemists that make carbon out of water. What puts additional carbon into the atmosphere is the stuff that requires burning of fossil fuels. All other farming is just part of the natural carbon cycle. Stuff that needs fossil fields are things like artificial fertiliser, pesticides, water treatment etc - none of which are required for grass reared cattle. There are indeed plenty of studies out there, just read what is and isn't included. Out of interest I looked at a Welsh study yesterday (that actually gave figures less than 1/3rd of those quoted as global average for beef production) and they specifically say they don't include carbon sequestration in the farming methods. So its ok to have studies that specifically include the impact on carbon footprint of deforestation for cattle grazing but not include the amount of carbon that's locked up in the peat and soil by traditional farming methods. What you're left with is a bunch of figures that you can massage to make just about any point. The fact remains that we evolved to be omnivores, the whole save the world thing is based on the idea that 'nature' is the greatest thing ever and needs preserving in every way whilst conveniently ignoring the fact that we are nature. The fact is humans have used technology to allow us to become far far more populous than the way we evolved would have allowed. This expansion in population is the single biggest cause of the environmental problems we have and yet no one wants to say that so let's try altering yet another way that we evolved to behave - its not like every other change humanity has taken away from our evolution hasn't turned out to be an ecological disaster. The single biggest life choice you can take to fight global warming isn't to turn vegan - it's to choose not to have kids but that's not a popular opinion to hold. Mr | |||
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"I garuntee most vegan meals have a higher carbon footprint than steak and chips sourced from my local farm shop. I'd also guarantee that locally sourced veg bought from a farm shop has a lower carbon footprint than the steak, that's of you really want to compare apples with apples. This popped up on my feed today https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/sep/13/meat-greenhouses-gases-food-production-study Now before anyone rolls their eyes at the guardian (I can understand why) they are only reporting the research done elsewhere, it wasn't them. It's a nonsense to try & claim that growing plants to feed up an animal over months/years somehow has less of an environmental impact than growing plants for humans to eat direct. I doubt very much that the person making that claim has much idea as to what 'most vegans meals' are either. You don't have to grow plants to feed animals. They're quite happy grazing on grass in environments like the Welsh uplands that are massive carbon sinks. This is the problem with the anti meat lobby, you'll get a carbon footprint for say beef which includes factory farmed cows, the impact of deforestation for grazing land, the growth of feed stock - everything in fact which ignores the fact that in the UK a lot of livestock is reared and fed on land that isn't suitable for anything else. They strangely never include the impact of the deforestation that has been done for growing fashionable 'superfoods' the social impact for example on Mexicans where a staple of their diet (the avacardo) is worth more than most can afford. I agree, meat production is a far higher source of carbon than growing plants but as I did above, a lot of that is to do with the methods used and comparing the worst methods of meat production with the greenest methods of plant production which is what the majority of these articles do is unfair, inaccurate and ignores other significant problems like poverty, not to mention huge environmental problems like water use. Mr You do know that grass is a plant? You also know that it takes twice as long to rear grass fed cattle as grain? Happy for you to compare the best methods of meat production with the best methods of plant production and interested to hear what you discover?... " The huge environmental concerns of using water should be directed at agriculture that's used to produce soybeans for animal feed, last time I looked it was around 80% of the crop being grown for animal feed https://wwf.panda.org/discover/our_focus/food_practice/sustainable_production/soy/ Add in the fact (I'll find a link if required) I read sometime ago that the average American in 2019 was eating appropriately 40% more meat than his 1960's counterpart, that's not insignificant. | |||
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"I garuntee most vegan meals have a higher carbon footprint than steak and chips sourced from my local farm shop. I'd also guarantee that locally sourced veg bought from a farm shop has a lower carbon footprint than the steak, that's of you really want to compare apples with apples. This popped up on my feed today https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/sep/13/meat-greenhouses-gases-food-production-study Now before anyone rolls their eyes at the guardian (I can understand why) they are only reporting the research done elsewhere, it wasn't them. It's a nonsense to try & claim that growing plants to feed up an animal over months/years somehow has less of an environmental impact than growing plants for humans to eat direct. I doubt very much that the person making that claim has much idea as to what 'most vegans meals' are either. You don't have to grow plants to feed animals. They're quite happy grazing on grass in environments like the Welsh uplands that are massive carbon sinks. This is the problem with the anti meat lobby, you'll get a carbon footprint for say beef which includes factory farmed cows, the impact of deforestation for grazing land, the growth of feed stock - everything in fact which ignores the fact that in the UK a lot of livestock is reared and fed on land that isn't suitable for anything else. They strangely never include the impact of the deforestation that has been done for growing fashionable 'superfoods' the social impact for example on Mexicans where a staple of their diet (the avacardo) is worth more than most can afford. I agree, meat production is a far higher source of carbon than growing plants but as I did above, a lot of that is to do with the methods used and comparing the worst methods of meat production with the greenest methods of plant production which is what the majority of these articles do is unfair, inaccurate and ignores other significant problems like poverty, not to mention huge environmental problems like water use. Mr You do know that grass is a plant? You also know that it takes twice as long to rear grass fed cattle as grain? Happy for you to compare the best methods of meat production with the best methods of plant production and interested to hear what you discover?... Yes, it is indeed a plant, one that's been busily growing and absorbing carbon from the atmosphere. But if course that doesn't count does it? We have to measure every fart the cow produces but never question where the carbon in that fart has come from. It's almost like cows are some kind of alchemists that make carbon out of water. What puts additional carbon into the atmosphere is the stuff that requires burning of fossil fuels. All other farming is just part of the natural carbon cycle. Stuff that needs fossil fields are things like artificial fertiliser, pesticides, water treatment etc - none of which are required for grass reared cattle. There are indeed plenty of studies out there, just read what is and isn't included. Out of interest I looked at a Welsh study yesterday (that actually gave figures less than 1/3rd of those quoted as global average for beef production) and they specifically say they don't include carbon sequestration in the farming methods. So its ok to have studies that specifically include the impact on carbon footprint of deforestation for cattle grazing but not include the amount of carbon that's locked up in the peat and soil by traditional farming methods. What you're left with is a bunch of figures that you can massage to make just about any point. The fact remains that we evolved to be omnivores, the whole save the world thing is based on the idea that 'nature' is the greatest thing ever and needs preserving in every way whilst conveniently ignoring the fact that we are nature. The fact is humans have used technology to allow us to become far far more populous than the way we evolved would have allowed. This expansion in population is the single biggest cause of the environmental problems we have and yet no one wants to say that so let's try altering yet another way that we evolved to behave - its not like every other change humanity has taken away from our evolution hasn't turned out to be an ecological disaster. The single biggest life choice you can take to fight global warming isn't to turn vegan - it's to choose not to have kids but that's not a popular opinion to hold. Mr" Or owning a pet, read that a medium sized dog can have that same carbon footprint as a small SUV! | |||
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" The single biggest life choice you can take to fight global warming isn't to turn vegan - it's to choose not to have kids but that's not a popular opinion to hold. Mr" Of course, my problem is, I'm already here and prefer not to off myself. Soylent Green Inc. | |||
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"Yes, it is indeed a plant, one that's been busily growing and absorbing carbon from the atmosphere. But if course that doesn't count does it? We have to measure every fart the cow produces but never question where the carbon in that fart has come from. It's almost like cows are some kind of alchemists that make carbon out of water." Well it doesn't really count if it's then used in vast numbers to feed up animals for eventual slaughter, no! "What puts additional carbon into the atmosphere is the stuff that requires burning of fossil fuels. All other farming is just part of the natural carbon cycle. Stuff that needs fossil fields are things like artificial fertiliser, pesticides, water treatment etc - none of which are required for grass reared cattle. " Oh. Nothing to do with methane then? "The fact remains that we evolved to be omnivores" Ah yes evolution. I mean some might argue that we continue to evolve... "The single biggest life choice you can take to fight global warming isn't to turn vegan - it's to choose not to have kids but that's not a popular opinion to hold. " Greta's parents may disagree. | |||
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"I garuntee most vegan meals have a higher carbon footprint than steak and chips sourced from my local farm shop. I'd also guarantee that locally sourced veg bought from a farm shop has a lower carbon footprint than the steak, that's of you really want to compare apples with apples. This popped up on my feed today https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/sep/13/meat-greenhouses-gases-food-production-study Now before anyone rolls their eyes at the guardian (I can understand why) they are only reporting the research done elsewhere, it wasn't them. It's a nonsense to try & claim that growing plants to feed up an animal over months/years somehow has less of an environmental impact than growing plants for humans to eat direct. I doubt very much that the person making that claim has much idea as to what 'most vegans meals' are either. You don't have to grow plants to feed animals. They're quite happy grazing on grass in environments like the Welsh uplands that are massive carbon sinks. This is the problem with the anti meat lobby, you'll get a carbon footprint for say beef which includes factory farmed cows, the impact of deforestation for grazing land, the growth of feed stock - everything in fact which ignores the fact that in the UK a lot of livestock is reared and fed on land that isn't suitable for anything else. They strangely never include the impact of the deforestation that has been done for growing fashionable 'superfoods' the social impact for example on Mexicans where a staple of their diet (the avacardo) is worth more than most can afford. I agree, meat production is a far higher source of carbon than growing plants but as I did above, a lot of that is to do with the methods used and comparing the worst methods of meat production with the greenest methods of plant production which is what the majority of these articles do is unfair, inaccurate and ignores other significant problems like poverty, not to mention huge environmental problems like water use. Mr You do know that grass is a plant? You also know that it takes twice as long to rear grass fed cattle as grain? Happy for you to compare the best methods of meat production with the best methods of plant production and interested to hear what you discover?... The huge environmental concerns of using water should be directed at agriculture that's used to produce soybeans for animal feed, last time I looked it was around 80% of the crop being grown for animal feed https://wwf.panda.org/discover/our_focus/food_practice/sustainable_production/soy/ Add in the fact (I'll find a link if required) I read sometime ago that the average American in 2019 was eating appropriately 40% more meat than his 1960's counterpart, that's not insignificant. " No argument from me on either of those issues. Like I've said, the way our food is farmed has a far bigger impact than the type of food. Growing plants in one field to feed cattle living in a barn is a massive problem. I also agree we don't need to eat anywhere near as much meat as we do here in the west. What I disagree with is the idea that we will do better if we ignore the fact that for millions of years our species and its forebears were omnivorous and say that not only can we live on a vegan diet (and I don't disagree with that) but that such a diet is better for us. You've spoken in your posts about the significant change you've made to your alcohol consumption and a similar change in the level of exercise that you do. Despite these changes you've attributed all of the benefits you have seen to dropping meat from your diet. I don't know, I've said on here before about my past and how it makes me react very strongly to people trying to preach and convert others to their ideologies with little consideration of facts. If you'd put a post up saying I've stopped drinking myself to death, started exercising and have turned vegan and I feel so much better for it I would probably said nothing more than how awesome that was. You didn't though, you claimed all the benefits are from turning vegan which to me smacks of indoctrination. I'm genuinely pleased that you've seen such a huge change in your life and as a fellow runner wish you all the success in the world for your marathon - just don't ask me to believe that your improved hard on is all down to soy beans and has nothing to do with recovering from brewers droop. Mr | |||
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"'millions' of years?!! "Yes, our omnivorous ancestors were making stone tools over 2 million years ago. Sapiens haven't been around that long which is why I said 'and our forbears' you really must learn critical reading. Also, to answer your earlier points, you raise methane, I'll counter with nitrous oxide, a gas that has nearly 10 times the greenhouse effect of methane (nearly 300 times a much as CO2) and lasts more than 10 times as long in the atmosphere - that is its effect its 1000 times that of methane. While some is indeed created by the breakdown of animal waste, far more comes from fertilisers. Its interesting see when you read these articles, methane will almost always include a reference to livestock while N2O invariably get attributes to 'agriculture' because coming out and saying 'arable farming' isn't fashionable and doesn't fit with the meat is bad narrative. Re Greta, in the time she has been alive the population of the planet has increased by about 1.4 billion. I seriously don't believe that her efforts have offset the carbon footprint or habitat destruction caused by 1.4 billion extra people. We are not going to solve our problems with an ever expanding population by hoping 1 in a billion of the new people born happens to be a succesful eco warrior. It's obvious we won't agree, you think I'm just a thicko, I think you are indoctrinated and are not prepared to consider any alternative to your beliefs so let's agree to disagree eh? We both care, we just have different ways of showing it. Mr | |||
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Never said you were a thicko but thanks for the candour.
By 'indoctrinated' do you mean having spent my whole life being told I should do something and then refusing to believe it could be any different?.....(because that sounds....a little...... like... you! 
As for the omnivore argument. Why do you think humans became omnivores? Because that argument kinda reinforces that we adapt, not that we're somehow biologically wired to always eat meat. | |||
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"By fertilisers you mean animal manure?!
Never said you were a thicko but thanks for the candour.
By 'indoctrinated' do you mean having spent my whole life being told I should do something and then refusing to believe it could be any different?.....(because that sounds....a little...... like... you!
As for the omnivore argument. Why do you think humans became omnivores? Because that argument kinda reinforces that we adapt, not that we're somehow biologically wired to always eat meat."By fertiliser no, I don't mean manure. If you honestly believe that modern food production is done using animal manure you really don't understand the problems we're facing and simultaneously are undermining your own platform. If we stop farming animals how are we going to fertalize our crops? Re adaption, I think you're confusing how evolution works. Could we evolve to be perfectly adapted to eating only plant food?Sure, over a few million years if there was a selective pressure to do so. The result would be hominids in the distant future would have different shaped teeth, different gut layout, different gut microbiome and who thrive on a plant based diet instead of only being able to survive on it with the addition of synthetic suplements (vitamin B12 for example). Our ability to adapt to different diets and synthetically engineer nutrients is a completely different concept to diets we've evolved to thrive on. Mr | |||
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" By fertiliser no, I don't mean manure. " Ok... " If you honestly believe that modern food production is done using animal manure you really don't understand the problems we're facing and simultaneously are undermining your own platform. " Um ok... " If we stop farming animals how are we going to fertalize our crops? " Erm, but you just said... 
" Re adaption, I think you're confusing how evolution works. " Of course I am. Silly me! | |||
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"you claimed all the benefits are from turning vegan which to me smacks of indoctrination." Except I didn't, though please feel free to c&p elements of my posts were I did. I did make the anecdotal claim that going vegan massively helped my muscle recovery, which it did, by that time I'd already stopped eating processed meats, eg bacon, sausage and eventually all red meat as well as alcohol months before I tried veganism. I've repeatedly said, it's all anecdotal and therefore applies only to me in so far as my own healthandfitnessis concerned, of course there are studies that back this up and the discussion expanded into other ethical areas but your comment above focuses on me and my improvement as a 54 year old marathon runner. Of course my soy induced cock improvement is open to debate, I can only say, people are free to sample it for themselves. | |||
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"Try again. Anecdotal of course, gave up eating animal products 18 months ago and on top of losing weight, coming off Statins and BP meds, my erection is feels harder for longer and looks fuller when flaccid, both of which my saucy wife will attest to. I’d probably equate all those things to the weight loss, not the change to a vegan diet. But all great news either way Correct, the weight loss happened by magic. You can easily lose weight without a vegan diet... Been vegan doesn't equates to been healthier. There are no long term studies that show that been vegan is healthier. Nutrition is a very complex subject that not even the experts can come to a agreement of the best diet. So like you said is anecdotal... Being vegan kind of does equate to being healthier there are many studies on this. Simply put your body has to produce more acid to break down animal products than non animal products. The by product of this acid is mucus where all diseases thrive. Less meat =less acid=less mucus = less sickness. Don’t get me wrong there are bad vegan products I.e soya. But you can do your own research to find what’s good for you
Ahhh yeah it just kinda does!
Someone call science, tell them to stop the studies, this guts figured it all out
It just kinda is more healthy!
I .. don’t know if your with me or against lol
Against because you have no science backing up your claims
With no science I could easily say that plant based food is actually harder to digest, which means more acid, more mucus, more illness
Gotta back your stuff up if you wanna be taken seriously
Look up Gerson therapy it’s been a successful way people have apparently cleared the body of cancer. It’s a diet change. That in itself if Gerson therapy is based on diet that it takes one from an acidic system to an alkaline system.
When people start claiming to have the cure for cancer is about the time I start to disengage...
Mr"All choose their own reality in the truth they trust in. Disengaging without investigation isn’t very open minded which never helps us to be open to alternative ways. There are many ways to heal aside the allopathic system. Prevention is always the best approach.  | |||
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"I garuntee most vegan meals have a higher carbon footprint than steak and chips sourced from my local farm shop. I'd also guarantee that locally sourced veg bought from a farm shop has a lower carbon footprint than the steak, that's of you really want to compare apples with apples. This popped up on my feed today https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/sep/13/meat-greenhouses-gases-food-production-study Now before anyone rolls their eyes at the guardian (I can understand why) they are only reporting the research done elsewhere, it wasn't them. It's a nonsense to try & claim that growing plants to feed up an animal over months/years somehow has less of an environmental impact than growing plants for humans to eat direct. I doubt very much that the person making that claim has much idea as to what 'most vegans meals' are either. You don't have to grow plants to feed animals. They're quite happy grazing on grass in environments like the Welsh uplands that are massive carbon sinks. This is the problem with the anti meat lobby, you'll get a carbon footprint for say beef which includes factory farmed cows, the impact of deforestation for grazing land, the growth of feed stock - everything in fact which ignores the fact that in the UK a lot of livestock is reared and fed on land that isn't suitable for anything else. They strangely never include the impact of the deforestation that has been done for growing fashionable 'superfoods' the social impact for example on Mexicans where a staple of their diet (the avacardo) is worth more than most can afford. I agree, meat production is a far higher source of carbon than growing plants but as I did above, a lot of that is to do with the methods used and comparing the worst methods of meat production with the greenest methods of plant production which is what the majority of these articles do is unfair, inaccurate and ignores other significant problems like poverty, not to mention huge environmental problems like water use. Mr You do know that grass is a plant? You also know that it takes twice as long to rear grass fed cattle as grain? Happy for you to compare the best methods of meat production with the best methods of plant production and interested to hear what you discover?... Yes, it is indeed a plant, one that's been busily growing and absorbing carbon from the atmosphere. But if course that doesn't count does it? We have to measure every fart the cow produces but never question where the carbon in that fart has come from. It's almost like cows are some kind of alchemists that make carbon out of water. What puts additional carbon into the atmosphere is the stuff that requires burning of fossil fuels. All other farming is just part of the natural carbon cycle. Stuff that needs fossil fields are things like artificial fertiliser, pesticides, water treatment etc - none of which are required for grass reared cattle. There are indeed plenty of studies out there, just read what is and isn't included. Out of interest I looked at a Welsh study yesterday (that actually gave figures less than 1/3rd of those quoted as global average for beef production) and they specifically say they don't include carbon sequestration in the farming methods. So its ok to have studies that specifically include the impact on carbon footprint of deforestation for cattle grazing but not include the amount of carbon that's locked up in the peat and soil by traditional farming methods. What you're left with is a bunch of figures that you can massage to make just about any point. The fact remains that we evolved to be omnivores, the whole save the world thing is based on the idea that 'nature' is the greatest thing ever and needs preserving in every way whilst conveniently ignoring the fact that we are nature. The fact is humans have used technology to allow us to become far far more populous than the way we evolved would have allowed. This expansion in population is the single biggest cause of the environmental problems we have and yet no one wants to say that so let's try altering yet another way that we evolved to behave - its not like every other change humanity has taken away from our evolution hasn't turned out to be an ecological disaster. The single biggest life choice you can take to fight global warming isn't to turn vegan - it's to choose not to have kids but that's not a popular opinion to hold. Mr" No! science does not compare the worst offending animal farming methods. With the least offending plant food methods. I don't know what rubbish you've been reading. There's no way that our earth can support cows that live outside, munching on grass. It can't happen. There's not enough land. That's why we have intensive farming everywhere. In the UK too. In fact its becoming more common in the uk now. Even the cows that are grass fed, are not grass fed all year round. They spend many months in a concrete shed and don't see the light of day. It's all very cruel. | |||
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