FabSwingers.com forum: Make it make sense

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

So I’ve been watching some vids and doing some research on this rise of so many young

celebs and (especially) young gen people who self identify as non-binary

Which I can sort of see how someone might not necessarily feel in either box as male or female concept.

But what’s kinda concerning is the trend (cos this what it seems to be) of people who want or create different pronouns. (Apparently it has a name.. neopronouns) Which leave me a bit baffled and is kinda feeling almost like RPG realm

Examples are bun/buns/bunself

tree/tree self (one of the actors from Love Simon apparently want to be referred to as this as he thinks we all come from trees)

ko/rean and ji/min (the non binary Brit/Korean person)

to name a few. Apparently there’s tons and tons more.. you can just create one from scratch

This means you have to change the standard she/he (or they) to those made up pronouns

Doesn’t this kinda feel like asking to pick only the red gummy bears out of a haribo bag? Is this the new way to feel somewhat special?? And why is it that actors seem to be the one jumping on this boat?

Make it make sense!!!

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By *iscean_dreamMan
over a year ago

Llanelli

No I'm confused and can't make sense of it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I kinda get it too a certain degree about the non labelling but I do think it’s gone too far.

It’s a good way to let people know how you wished to be referred as to save awkward conversations but is it becoming a little entitled?

I mean this in the sense of yelling or insisting that people should know how to refer to you before they have ever met you?

And I’m claiming beard/bearded/beardself

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I kinda get it too a certain degree about the non labelling but I do think it’s gone too far.

It’s a good way to let people know how you wished to be referred as to save awkward conversations but is it becoming a little entitled?

I mean this in the sense of yelling or insisting that people should know how to refer to you before they have ever met you?

And I’m claiming beard/bearded/beardself

I love the beard/bearded/beardself pronouns

that’s what I mean tho, it feels a bit self entitlement at the heighest form.. and how is someone supposed to make the extra mental step to be able to fit a new neopronoun

Also what’s concerning is the self identification part. This is coming from a girl who actually had to see doctors, therapists and undergo treatments. I’m not putting myself on a high horse here but tree self hasn’t done anything apart from saying call me this way.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"No I'm confused and can't make sense of it

I can’t either. My blonde brain hurts!!!

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By *ily WhiteWoman
over a year ago

Personally I think it's a bit silly!

Don't get me wrong, identify as whatever the blooming heck you like, I couldn't give a monkeys armpit....but don't go getting all uppity and irate at me because I referred to you as he/she when I have no idea that you refer to yourself as something different. It's not like you wear a sign to let people know.

* generic you, not directed at you personally OP

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I kinda get it too a certain degree about the non labelling but I do think it’s gone too far.

It’s a good way to let people know how you wished to be referred as to save awkward conversations but is it becoming a little entitled?

I mean this in the sense of yelling or insisting that people should know how to refer to you before they have ever met you?

And I’m claiming beard/bearded/beardself

How is beardedself this evening? X

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I kinda get it too a certain degree about the non labelling but I do think it’s gone too far.

It’s a good way to let people know how you wished to be referred as to save awkward conversations but is it becoming a little entitled?

I mean this in the sense of yelling or insisting that people should know how to refer to you before they have ever met you?

And I’m claiming beard/bearded/beardself

How is beardedself this evening? X

Beardself is as always a very happy soul x

Does this mean I have to refer to myself in the third person?

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By *ools and the brainCouple
over a year ago

couple, us we him her.

Doesn't make any sense to me.

I find it highly amusing when people who claim to hate labels.

Then create a whole new word so they can label themselves as "that"

I really don't get the need to ram "gendentity" ( see ive just made that word up) down everyone's throat.

If someone is

"A". "B" or "c" "d" and so on..

Then that's cool be who you are and who you feel comfortable being.

Personally and I hope I don't offend anyone I think it should be simplified to.

Male, female and other.

Other being a general name for whatever you decide you want to be it's entirely your choice no judgement from me. If someone sees themselves as neither male nor female and enjoy both cock and vag doesn't tie themselves down to a single partner surely "other" simplifies thing's?

Or am I completely missing the point?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Personally I think it's a bit silly!

* generic you, not directed at you personally OP "

I know it’s not directed at me haha I am doing everything I can to obviously be read as female by everyone so it comes automatic for everyone to refer to me as she/her ..being greeted as lady (yes in Gucci they call you ladies ahah) or madam or darling or love or whatever you call any women

But this tree thing is beyond odd.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I kinda get it too a certain degree about the non labelling but I do think it’s gone too far.

It’s a good way to let people know how you wished to be referred as to save awkward conversations but is it becoming a little entitled?

I mean this in the sense of yelling or insisting that people should know how to refer to you before they have ever met you?

And I’m claiming beard/bearded/beardself

How is beardedself this evening? X

Beardself is as always a very happy soul x

Does this mean I have to refer to myself in the third person?

I’m not sure. It’s my assumption but I’d say so? Make it make sense!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I kinda get it too a certain degree about the non labelling but I do think it’s gone too far.

It’s a good way to let people know how you wished to be referred as to save awkward conversations but is it becoming a little entitled?

I mean this in the sense of yelling or insisting that people should know how to refer to you before they have ever met you?

And I’m claiming beard/bearded/beardself

How is beardedself this evening? X

Beardself is as always a very happy soul x

Does this mean I have to refer to myself in the third person?

I’m not sure. It’s my assumption but I’d say so? Make it make sense!

I might try it for a week

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think Demi Lovato has lost the plot to be honest. She wants to be called they/them. It's a bit crackers, she has taken too many illicit drugs.

It's gone a bit too far and is baffling xx

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By *ora the explorerWoman
over a year ago

Paradise, Herts

People wanting to be identified as objects and animals! Absolute bonkers. And no it doesn’t make sense.

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By *iscean_dreamMan
over a year ago

Llanelli

"Personally I think it's a bit silly!

* generic you, not directed at you personally OP

But this tree thing is beyond odd."

Do you think these tree people expand when they get hot, do they need to stay dry as much as possible so they don't rot

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By *ervent_fervourMan
over a year ago

Halifax

Individualism gone too far? The myopic cult of looking inward and exceptionalism? Dunno. That's probably me being harsh. And admittedly very ignorant on this subject. But the tree stuff does come across as a bit narcissistic?

But I'm sure actors and artists couldn't be stereotyped in that way..

I have plenty of sympathy for the need to self explore/identify in such ways but.. Maybe too epoch changing/radical for me. Must be me age!

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By *lenderfoxMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"I think Demi Lovato has lost the plot to be honest. She wants to be called they/them. It's a bit crackers, she has taken too many illicit drugs.

It's gone a bit too far and is baffling xx"

They/them is pretty common for non-binary people

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Doesn't make any sense to me.

I find it highly amusing when people who claim to hate labels.

Then create a whole new word so they can label themselves as "that"

I really don't get the need to ram "gendentity" ( see ive just made that word up) down everyone's throat.

If someone is

"A". "B" or "c" "d" and so on..

Then that's cool be who you are and who you feel comfortable being.

Personally and I hope I don't offend anyone I think it should be simplified to.

Male, female and other.

Or am I completely missing the point?"

I think you are right! Other should suffice to mean everyone who doesn’t feel male nor female.

Apparently some universities in the US are updating the database regarding neopronouns, so they don’t get things wrong… (and data says it’s 1% so 50 students out of 5000)

I saw a tik tok of this woman who was a white biological woman, obviously looked like any woman and said she hates that everyone at work assumes she’s a woman. And that puts her at disadvantage.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I think Demi Lovato has lost the plot to be honest. She wants to be called they/them. It's a bit crackers, she has taken too many illicit drugs.

It's gone a bit too far and is baffling xx"

Poor thing she has a long time ago and I love the way she sings (I’m using all wrong pronouns

)

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Personally I think it's a bit silly!

* generic you, not directed at you personally OP

But this tree thing is beyond odd.

Do you think these tree people expand when they get hot, do they need to stay dry as much as possible so they don't rot "

I am super confused too, I thought we descended from monkeys?? I might have skipped the day they talked about the tree part in our history lessons …

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By *evonshireboyMan
over a year ago

North Devon

"I kinda get it too a certain degree about the non labelling but I do think it’s gone too far.

It’s a good way to let people know how you wished to be referred as to save awkward conversations but is it becoming a little entitled?

I mean this in the sense of yelling or insisting that people should know how to refer to you before they have ever met you?

And I’m claiming beard/bearded/beardself

Aren't you too late? I thought "a beard" was already defined in the gay communities

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By *uddy laneMan
over a year ago

dudley

I knew a bloke he was on the dole 35 yrs ago he walked out his flat in red underpants yellow socks went to the local library and started clucking like a chicken and strutting around until they took him away, he was back on the scene a few weeks later they had doubled his dole money and he was moving to a new social house build, talk about getting rewarded for being different.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Individualism gone too far? The myopic cult of looking inward and exceptionalism? Dunno. That's probably me being harsh. And admittedly very ignorant on this subject. But the tree stuff does come across as a bit narcissistic?

But I'm sure actors and artists couldn't be stereotyped in that way..

I have plenty of sympathy for the need to self explore/identify in such ways but.. Maybe too epoch changing/radical for me. Must be me age! "

I just think there must be a cut off point otherwise how can anyone keep up with random requests .. as said it’s almost like ordering pizza but with no tomato, no cheese, no base…

Weird.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I get that people feel they don't want to conform to "femininity" or "masculinity" but I don't think that should have any effect on how people refer to them. Like, if you wanna wear a skirt one day and a 3 piece tux the next no one's stopping you?

I also think non binary people are lucky that there is even such a word for them in English. Many Romance languages have "they" as being masculine, so what do they do when they go abroad and are referred to as men?

That being said, I am respectful of people's feelings and will call them by whatever pronoun makes them feel comfortable (within reason, obvs)

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I get that people feel they don't want to conform to "femininity" or "masculinity" but I don't think that should have any effect on how people refer to them. Like, if you wanna wear a skirt one day and a 3 piece tux the next no one's stopping you?

That being said, I am respectful of people's feelings and will call them by whatever pronoun makes them feel comfortable (within reason, obvs) "

I wonder how the conversation goes for someone who looks like a regular male to speak and ask…

Please refer to me as tree !!!

For me it naturally went to she/her without having to ask people to use my correct pronouns. Luckily

The only ones back then, were the ones who knew me before transitioning and I was the one to ask when I felt ready with them. And still then, In my mind It felt like a huge ask …

and that I wasn’t worthy of it till I proved enough.

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By *DW1983Man
over a year ago

Aberdeen, Leeds, Sheffield

Insomuch as I, a straight white male, dare have an opinion on such a thing, I think it's daft.

On the one hand, yes, let people identify as whatever they like. But on the other there needs to be a recognition that with rights comes responsibility.

There was talk of a guy somewhere who'd left his family to live as a 4 year old girl because that's how he wanted to identify, and I think that falls under the same umbrella as this.

If you don't want to identify as he/she, then they is an alternative that most people will cope with. Expecting the whole population to recognise (let alone use) splodge or plop or whatever as a pronoun because they feel like a splodge is just not going to happen and in my opinion makes a mockery of it for those who want or need to use a different but (for want of a better word) genuine pronoun.

I think there has to be a point where we stop patting people on the head and saying 'there there, of course you can' and say actually no, you can't, don't be daft. In the same way that some countries refuse to allow parents to pick ridiculous names for their children.

I also think that people within that spectrum need to recognise that while pronouns are a big thing within some communities, in the wider community it isn't. Workplaces for example might have a duty towards being inclusive but can you really imagine, say, a firm answering a customer contact with "Ah yes, it was Sam who was dealing with your query but plop isn't here today. I'll tell plop you called and ask plop to call you back when plop's back after plops holiday on Monday"?

As cruel as it sounds, I do sometimes think that some people need a reality check for when they go out into the big wide real world sometimes.

I have to admit that I did once rather annoy a young student friend of a friend who insists on not being identified as female. I dared ask how she squared that with making a living from camming and selling content on OF - where, with the best will in the world it's hard to argue that guys aren't identifying and objectifying her as a woman when they're watching.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It’s a wild world we live in

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I kinda get it too a certain degree about the non labelling but I do think it’s gone too far.

It’s a good way to let people know how you wished to be referred as to save awkward conversations but is it becoming a little entitled?

I mean this in the sense of yelling or insisting that people should know how to refer to you before they have ever met you?

And I’m claiming beard/bearded/beardself

Aren't you too late? I thought "a beard" was already defined in the gay communities

You obviously know more than I do. I have no clue on this

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The request for pronouns or neopronouns is often accompanied by a plea to be kind and how it's such a little thing to ask. It is a little thing, until it's multiplied. Until teachers or lecturers have to recall every student's preference. Until those in a meeting have to do the same.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Insomuch as I, a straight white male, dare have an opinion on such a thing, I think it's daft.

On the one hand, yes, let people identify as whatever they like. But on the other there needs to be a recognition that with rights comes responsibility.

There was talk of a guy somewhere who'd left his family to live as a 4 year old girl because that's how he wanted to identify, and I think that falls under the same umbrella as this.

As cruel as it sounds, I do sometimes think that some people need a reality check for when they go out into the big wide real world sometimes.

Totally get what you mean and I agree too.

I just think there must be a cut off point where it becomes a joke or literally a living RPG game where you decide whether you are an elf or a tree or blop and ask people to scrap he/she and use blop.

I think therapy might be really really needed to dig whatever is down there.

Btw did that person present as female? Like she was total female but didn’t want to be seen as one? I’m confused . X

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By *ervent_fervourMan
over a year ago

Halifax

"It’s a wild world we live in "

Ooooh baby, baby it's a wild world!

Soz. Cat Stevens just came over me.

So to speak.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"The request for pronouns or neopronouns is often accompanied by a plea to be kind and how it's such a little thing to ask. It is a little thing, until it's multiplied. Until teachers or lecturers have to recall every student's preference. Until those in a meeting have to do the same.

I was baffled when I read about the teacher and uni thing as it must be so difficult to remember made up pronouns.

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By *DW1983Man
over a year ago

Aberdeen, Leeds, Sheffield

" [snipped] I have to admit that I did once rather annoy a young student friend of a friend who insists on not being identified as female. I dared ask how she squared that with making a living from camming and selling content on OF - where, with the best will in the world it's hard to argue that guys aren't identifying and objectifying her as a woman when they're watching.

Btw did that person present as female? Like she was total female but didn’t want to be seen as one? I’m confused . X"

Yes, female in looks, name, biology, etc. But started to insist on they/their on private social media etc. Got really narked with me for asking the (genuine, not meant to be inflammatory) question of how one works with the other and whether it isn't a double-standard.

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By *DW1983Man
over a year ago

Aberdeen, Leeds, Sheffield

I was baffled when I read about the teacher and uni thing as it must be so difficult to remember made up pronouns. "

Yup, but 'equality' and 'inclusiveness'. People are scared to say anything for fear of being called out or prosecuted for not being "inclusive"...

I do wondee if it will backfire for some when they grow out of the 'being different' phase and find themselves with references or reports for future employers "Sam was a great student. Splodge was always on time and splodge always paid attention in all splodges classes. I would strongly recommend splodge for a job."

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By *ust ClareTV/TS
over a year ago

Settlewick!

It's attention seeking,a lot of these minor celebrities are jumping on a bandwagon to self aggrandise themselves as pioneers of a new form of self expression,mainly to attract more followers to their social media accounts.

Meanwhile, genuinely misaligned non-famous people are suffering ridicule and abuse because the general public are sick of the look-at-me brigade getting their egotistical arses in a tither

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Btw did that person present as female? Like she was total female but didn’t want to be seen as one? I’m confused . X

Yeah that’s so odd, as obviously they didn’t do anything for people to assume otherwise like maybe some gender fluidity where one might not be sure what they are..

but are a regular girl who just doesn’t want people to refer to as one??

I always say.. it it looks like a duck, and acts like a duck.. its a duck! X

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's attention seeking,a lot of these minor celebrities are jumping on a bandwagon to self aggrandise themselves as pioneers of a new form of self expression,mainly to attract more followers to their social media accounts.

Meanwhile, genuinely misaligned non-famous people are suffering ridicule and abuse because the general public are sick of the look-at-me brigade getting their egotistical arses in a tither"

I’d very much agree with this.

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By *DW1983Man
over a year ago

Aberdeen, Leeds, Sheffield

I always say.. it it looks like a duck, and acts like a duck.. its a duck! X

If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck,... They're probably a bit quackers.

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall

If someone wants to be a tree, I’m happy to let them enjoy their own delusion. Demanding that I join in with their delusion is ridiculous. It reeks of the emperors new clothes to me.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"If someone wants to be a tree, I’m happy to let them enjoy their own delusion. Demanding that I join in with their delusion is ridiculous. It reeks of the emperors new clothes to me."

Totally. I’m sure none argues that they can be whatever but expecting weird pronouns to be used , is definitely a super self entitling act

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

After careful consideration I decided on these pronouns …

Jack’s Wifey/ Jack’s wifeyself

Seems appropriate

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By *riar BelisseWoman
over a year ago

Delightful Bliss

Wow that question blew my brain apart, I'm old fashioned and all of this new labelling is a mind fuck for me. Personally I just stick to calling people by their first/chosen name (only one pheobe) and ignore all other labels they deem to put onto themselves, if it makes them happy then sure do what they want but don't drag me into it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It sort of sums up the world we are now living in. A lot of people just want to be noticed and feel special, unique in any shape or form. One way is to attached a new label to themselves. A lot comes from media and schools telling everyone they are special, when we aren't.

The thing that makes me laugh about pronouns is the person making the big announcement about them wont hear them. Pronouns are generally used when you are not in the conversation, when you are around people use your name.

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By *annaBeStrongMan
over a year ago

wokingham

It’s just the new fad all the kids are getting into

Remember as a kid how you’d always fuck around in school?

Now imagine your in school again and there’s this big push about acceptance and how you can be whatever you want, you can act offended if anyone uses the wrong pronoun you just made up. Who can make the weirdest pronoun competition to mess with the teachers

I know I would have done it in school.

It’s just a big fad for most

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By *oneyBear100Couple
over a year ago

Gatwick area

Happy to refer to someone by their tree self. Henceforth they shall be called plank

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By *alandNitaCouple
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

Surely the whole pronoun thing only really matters when you're talking about someone rather than talking too them... in which case, they should be listening to other people's conversations

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"It sort of sums up the world we are now living in. A lot of people just want to be noticed and feel special, unique in any shape or form. One way is to attached a new label to themselves. A lot comes from media and schools telling everyone they are special, when we aren't.

Well yes unless there’s a 3way convo with a stranger where you might have to use pronouns.

It gets so confusing

And what about titles, do they go with no titles. Does a plant have one?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"It’s just the new fad all the kids are getting into

Remember as a kid how you’d always fuck around in school?

I know I would have done it in school.

It’s just a big fad for most"

I’m convinced this is the new emo

like a trend that kids will eventually grow out of…

Having said that a) the entitlement of it all

b) makes a joke of actually people who are transgender and go through an actual process in order to relieve a condition (gender dysphoria)

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By *annaBeStrongMan
over a year ago

wokingham

"It’s just the new fad all the kids are getting into

Remember as a kid how you’d always fuck around in school?

I know I would have done it in school.

It’s just a big fad for most

I’m convinced this is the new emo

like a trend that kids will eventually grow out of…

Having said that a) the entitlement of it all

b) makes a joke of actually people who are transgender and go through an actual process in order to relieve a condition (gender dysphoria)"

Exactly, but sadly, that’s what happens when you push total acceptance without any quantitative measures

People end up taking the piss, and it actually makes people who are actually dealing with that issue feel like shit.

In an attempt to push acceptance, we’ve actually hurt and alienated the ones we were trying to accept

It’s not an easy issue to fix either. Because if someone says they are non binary and want to be refereed to as an Apache attack helicopter (which we all know is the standard piss take joke) who are we, in our push for acceptance, to tell them no?

How would it make someone that’s actually non binary feel to see a class mate taking the piss by acting offended because someone didn’t call them an Apache attack helicopter?

But again, how do you stop that? If we want to accept everyone. You gotta let the piss takers through too

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"It’s just the new fad all the kids are getting into

Remember as a kid how you’d always fuck around in school?

I know I would have done it in school.

It’s just a big fad for most

I’m convinced this is the new emo

like a trend that kids will eventually grow out of…

Having said that a) the entitlement of it all

b) makes a joke of actually people who are transgender and go through an actual process in order to relieve a condition (gender dysphoria)

Exactly, but sadly, that’s what happens when you push total acceptance without any quantitative measures

People end up taking the piss, and it actually makes people who are actually dealing with that issue feel like shit.

In an attempt to push acceptance, we’ve actually hurt and alienated the ones we were trying to accept

How would it make someone that’s actually non binary feel to see a class mate taking the piss by acting offended because someone didn’t call them an Apache attack helicopter?

But again, how do you stop that? If we want to accept everyone. You gotta let the piss takers through too"

I agree, the trans community has gone a long way to battle ignorance and to show how we just are. But the new movements have gone a bit too far in a way that, everyone becomes valid.

I was trying to be open minded but I have to say, that I do believe in science and medicine so, this whole I self identify is BS.

When there should be 3 important steps when it comes to being trans.

Social transitioning

Medical transitioning

And last but not least..surgical transitioning

With a doctors diagnosis, and some help from therapists and then the whole medical stuff that we have to go through all our lives + ops

I’m not talking about those ones who have it in the back of their head and aren’t ready. Those girls/boys are valid as they need time to digest the idea of who they are.

But for whatever reason the ones who come out as trees and bunnies and children. Seem to find it so easy to make this big (and usually ridiculous) announcements

Some of the Tik tok vids of these non binary are scary, I feel like they literally burnt the back of my eyes a bit

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

https://youtu.be/4IH3gJw2px4

Enjoy getting your retinas being burnt after watching this

All I see is social discomfort … and a few therapy sessions are needed!

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By *DW1983Man
over a year ago

Aberdeen, Leeds, Sheffield

"https://youtu.be/4IH3gJw2px4

Enjoy getting your retinas being burnt after watching this

All I see is social discomfort … and a few therapy sessions are needed! "

I watched it through my darkest sunglasses

It still hurt my eyes. And ears.

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