FabSwingers.com forum: Religion - Force for Good or Evil

By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago

Chelmsford

A report that some organised faiths are havens for abuse. Is Religion a force for good or evil.. ?

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By *asmeenTV/TS
over a year ago

STOKE ON TRENT

Good

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By *rian4uMan
over a year ago

London

When you are on your uppers and nowhere to turn, religion becomes your saviour.

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By *asmeenTV/TS
over a year ago

STOKE ON TRENT

Dont blame religion for Human wrong doing

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion.

Steven Weinberg

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Evil.

I think the only ones who are good are the Asian ones that focus on elements and nature etc

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By *yron69Man
over a year ago

Fareham

A haven for charlatans.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Dont blame religion for Human wrong doing"

Pretty much sums it up

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By *ockosaurusMan
over a year ago

Warwick

Neither for good nor evil, but for control (which incidentally can be used for both).

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By *a LunaWoman
over a year ago

South Wales

It’s what you make of it.

A fucked up person is a fucked up person.

Religion isn’t a cure all.

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By *oozleMan
over a year ago

high wycombe

I’m not specifically religious, however it’s not religion that causes the problems in society, it’s the person and their own interpretation that causes the issues.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Its both. A religion is a good thing for people to turn to when they need it in their darkest times. It can also cause pain, fear and unrest at times too.

As previously said above, a fucked up person is a fucked up person, regardless whether there is religion involved or not.

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By *stbury DavenportMan
over a year ago

Nottingham

Pure evil.

In the bin with all of it.

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By *andsome HandMan
over a year ago

roundabout

It's both. It depends on the person in question.

There are devout people who do good works. There are people out there who don't practice what they preach and hide behind a mask.

Organized religion tends to lose its way, you only have to look at the wealth amassed by the Vatican while people in the world starve. That was not in the gospel.

Jesus himself preached against religion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't think it was a shark, more likely an upside down windsurfer,imho.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's both.

When my mother in law passed the local priest was a real source of comfort and support for the family. That's good on a personal level.

When a priest sexually assaulted me when I was 10, along with maybe hundreds of other kids, that was evil on a personal level.

We all know how many wars, murders, rapés and genocides have been perpetrated in the name of religion. It has been a cancer on mankind since its inception, however I think the people who participated in the atrocities only used religion as the convenient excuse.

They would have fought their wars regardless finding different levers to make people do what they wanted.

When civilisation started religion had uses and helped control and tame people. In many ways we have replaced religion with law and science but it can still have positive results in society.

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By *oubleswing2019Man
over a year ago

Colchester

Religion is an Enabling Magnifying Glass.

It focuses on the inherent good some people possess and enables them to focus their altruism wider afield, in the community for example.

It also focuses on the inherent evil some people possess and enables them to focus their intolerance wider afield, in the community for example.

It can be used for good or bad, as interpretation sees fit.

Some people transcend organised religion, and feel they do not need an artificial faith-based construct to tell them how to behave. They might align to an ideal instead such as Humanism, which they may feel is more relevant to the modern world.

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

As with all group settings that actively do this, they protect the abuser and blame the victim.

The report, second of its kind, only focuses on religion but there are many other settings this happens. Religion isn’t the cause the people carrying out the abuse and covering it up, the people involved are.

It’s time the law changed to make those who cover it up calpable for their actions, as much as the individual abuser.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Some of the most judgemental and intolerant people I have come across are very religious. Take from that what you will.

I’d be quite happy to see it abolished.

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By *hekaiserMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Dont blame religion for Human wrong doing"

This...

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"A report that some organised faiths are havens for abuse. Is Religion a force for good or evil.. ?"

Surely both. Its just a reflection of the human condition. Rather like oh I don't know... USA gymnastics. Or care homes. Or BBC. Or the Fa... And so on.. All have a history of ignoring / hiding abuse by their employees.

There are some nasty humans. Thankfully some lovely ones too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As with all group settings that actively do this, they protect the abuser and blame the victim.

It’s time the law changed to make those who cover it up calpable for their actions, as much as the individual abuser. "

Exactly. This was one of 16 reports so far by the Independent Inquiry into Child Abuse covering all aspects of this horrific problem. The last report highlighted historic abuse in a children's home run by Lambeth Council, for example. Abuse will flourish in all closed and secretive institutions, religious or secular, and the answer is openness and accountability.

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By *etcplCouple
over a year ago

Gapping Fanny

I’m no fan of organised religion, but I accept it has helped many people including family members.

Power doesn’t corrupt people, people corrupt power.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Dont blame religion for Human wrong doing"

A contradiction in terms if ever there was one, seeing as religion is wholly the invention of humans, they are solely to blame.

*unless you can point me to for example a sect of catholic rabbits or protestant ducks.

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By *urvyBi-84Man
over a year ago

Lancs

I’m a total atheist. I find religion illogical to the point of bizarre. That being said, if it provides comfort and meaning for people I’m good with that.

Where it becomes an issue for me is forcing views or beliefs on others, or using faith as an excuse for violence. I have no respect for any interpretation of any faith that does that.

Likewise, I will respect anyone’s beliefs right up to the point where they cease to respect mine and try to lecture or convert me. Nope, not having it.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

Anyone who works with kids in sport for example... Or at school with kids should in theory be DBS checked. Id be interested to know if the same applies to our many religious groups and their imams, rabbis, priests

. Care home workers... et al.

Not that a DBS check is a cure but it helps.

Or put another way... It would be helpful to understand what actions religions are taking to protect the vulnerable and to stop abusers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Pure evil.

In the bin with all of it. "

The irony of this statement being that 'evil' is an entirely religious concept.

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By *immyinreadingMan
over a year ago

henley on thames

"A report that some organised faiths are havens for abuse. Is Religion a force for good or evil.. ?"

I envy your black and white view of the world, where things are so clear and can be so easily compartmentalised as good or bad.

Religions tend to preach positivity, responsibility, kindness, community etc. But any organisation with lots of people will obviously have people with weaknesses, bad instincts, bad behaviours etc, not all of these people can be identified, most religions don’t want to exclude them, they want to save them, so most religions will include members who would fail a simple “good / bad” assessment.

Where things get more complicated is when religious leaders transgress, and the churches cover this up. Lots of history on that one.

And things get complicated further when property and power come into play, with tons of wars having religion (nominally at least) as the central flashpoint.

And then we have religious zealots who act in the name of their religion, but in ways that the vast majority of their fellow worshippers would not support.

There’s plenty of other angles you can look at this from, and thousands of years of history, that’s just the tip of the iceberg. But it beats me who you can trivialise such a complex subject into “good or evil”.

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By *ealitybitesMan
over a year ago

Belfast

Where I'm from religion has been used as a weapon for generations. Nothing good ever came from that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Both. Although good and evil are subjective too so it's a hard question.... Does anyone do something evil thinking ITBIS Evil ... Hmmm.

Probably my biggest issue with (organised) religion (and other organised belief systems such as political parties) is it can too easily take thought out or the picture. We listen to those we agree with, dismiss those we don't. And groupthink tends to take moderate people to extremes....

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

"Anyone who works with kids in sport for example... Or at school with kids should in theory be DBS checked. Id be interested to know if the same applies to our many religious groups and their imams, rabbis, priests

. Care home workers... et al.

Not that a DBS check is a cure but it helps.

Or put another way... It would be helpful to understand what actions religions are taking to protect the vulnerable and to stop abusers. "

DBS checks are all well and good, but doesn’t cover those that have never been caught doing or covering up abuse.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"Both. Although good and evil are subjective too so it's a hard question.... Does anyone do something evil thinking ITBIS Evil ... Hmmm.

I give you the covid fora....

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By *emorefridaCouple
over a year ago

La la land

If we didn't have religion it would be something else. Abuse has happened in care homes and sports clubs also. But we don't call for them to be scrapped or that they are root of all evil. There are evil people in the world and they will exist and take advantage wherever they can.

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By *immyinreadingMan
over a year ago

henley on thames

"Some of the most judgemental and intolerant people I have come across are very religious. Take from that what you will.

I’d be quite happy to see it abolished. "

And those people would just disappear? And those people would stop being intolerant?

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

. Care home workers... et al.

Not that a DBS check is a cure but it helps.

Or put another way... It would be helpful to understand what actions religions are taking to protect the vulnerable and to stop abusers.

DBS checks are all well and good, but doesn’t cover those that have never been caught doing or covering up abuse. "

Of course... But it's a place to start isn't it? I mean put it this way.. Its the best we have isn't it? As flawed as it is. If you have people working with kids / vulnerable adults... You want to know who you are entrusting them to.

That aside... We make great infotainment out of.

Eg the Fa safeguarding processes... Now this has been in the news. It just made me wonder if all religions have safeguarding and child safety policies... And if not why not?

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By *immyinreadingMan
over a year ago

henley on thames

"Where I'm from religion has been used as a weapon for generations. Nothing good ever came from that. "

A sad and complex history, with consequences running for centuries and now hard-coded into politics. Power, control and everything that goes with it, all dressed up in the name of religion. That was never the intention when religions were founded, but bring power and control into the mix and everything goes to shit.

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

. Care home workers... et al.

Not that a DBS check is a cure but it helps.

Or put another way... It would be helpful to understand what actions religions are taking to protect the vulnerable and to stop abusers.

DBS checks are all well and good, but doesn’t cover those that have never been caught doing or covering up abuse.

That aside... We make great infotainment out of.

Eg the Fa safeguarding processes... Now this has been in the news. It just made me wonder if all religions have safeguarding and child safety policies... And if not why not? "

Of course it’s a place to start and stops those that have been caught working with children, a good change that came in after these individuals skipped from one job to another to continue their ways

On the safeguarding policies, it is one thing the report is recommending they all have, so I’d say at the moment some don’t.

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

"Dont blame religion for Human wrong doing"

Religion, belief in a God or superpower and an act of worshiping a god or superpower.

Human wrong doing could be said to have created religion in the first place.

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By *immyinreadingMan
over a year ago

henley on thames

"Dont blame religion for Human wrong doing

Religion, belief in a God or superpower and an act of worshiping a god or superpower.

Human wrong doing could be said to have created religion in the first place.

Religion was born out of a number of factors ... nature, superstition, fear, the need for rules and codes of conduct etc.

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By *hrista BellendWoman
over a year ago

surrounded by twinkly lights

Neither

Is abused however for both purposes

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

"Dont blame religion for Human wrong doing

Religion, belief in a God or superpower and an act of worshiping a god or superpower.

Human wrong doing could be said to have created religion in the first place.

Religion was born out of a number of factors ... nature, superstition, fear, the need for rules and codes of conduct etc. "

It certainly was and with it came rituals, sacrifices and wars, the list is endless.

Religion was a control tool, control the unknown and known, made by humans.

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By *immyinreadingMan
over a year ago

henley on thames

"Dont blame religion for Human wrong doing

Religion, belief in a God or superpower and an act of worshiping a god or superpower.

Human wrong doing could be said to have created religion in the first place.

Religion was born out of a number of factors ... nature, superstition, fear, the need for rules and codes of conduct etc.

It certainly was and with it came rituals, sacrifices and wars, the list is endless.

Religion was a control tool, control the unknown and known, made by humans."

That’s what religion has ended up being; in terms of its mark on history.

But getting back to the original question, on whether religion is a force for good or evil. The intentions are good but some of the outcomes are not.

I grew up in Ireland. Take away the church and there would have been zero education for generations. They have done a lot of good in my country, and are responsible for a lot of horrific behaviour. I can’t distill that down to a single pass/fail assessment.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

Is the origin of religions / faiths / beliefs all that important.? They exist now, they have influences and some of them have ministers that tolerate, preach or encourage practises which are either illegal or don't fit with our culture. That's what needs to be urgently addressed.

They also do some amazing good things for people's and communities, supporting those in need of support and comfort. And faith and belief and spiritual benefit for those that want or need that, social engagement, community, shared values and purpose for many.

Lets be careful what we wish for and consider for those that wish to abolish "religion" what would replace it.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"Dont blame religion for Human wrong doing

Religion, belief in a God or superpower and an act of worshiping a god or superpower.

Human wrong doing could be said to have created religion in the first place.

Religion was born out of a number of factors ... nature, superstition, fear, the need for rules and codes of conduct etc.

It certainly was and with it came rituals, sacrifices and wars, the list is endless.

Religion was a control tool, control the unknown and known, made by humans."

Lets not lose sight of the fact that many people need to be given boundaries and need to be told and guided and given rules and yes controlled ... Many people really struggle with a blank sheet of paper and true freedom of choice and behaviour. Controlling the known and unknown is what man has been trying to do since we started as amoeba...

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

"Dont blame religion for Human wrong doing

Religion, belief in a God or superpower and an act of worshiping a god or superpower.

Human wrong doing could be said to have created religion in the first place.

Religion was born out of a number of factors ... nature, superstition, fear, the need for rules and codes of conduct etc.

It certainly was and with it came rituals, sacrifices and wars, the list is endless.

Religion was a control tool, control the unknown and known, made by humans.

That’s what religion has ended up being; in terms of its mark on history.

But getting back to the original question, on whether religion is a force for good or evil. The intentions are good but some of the outcomes are not.

I think you are correct, it can't be given a pass or fail because of its sheer complexity.

The question originally asked, is it a force for good or evil, has exactly the same answer outcome. It is far too complex and subjected to biased opinion that a conclusion one way or the other is highly unlikely .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How would you Fabbers view religion, if some zealot used their religious power and influence to close this website and make swinging unlawful?

In the teaching of some religions swinging is already proscribed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hokum and an excuse to do wrong in the name of some imaginary greater deity.

#notallworshipers

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By *ifestooshort9999Couple
over a year ago

Dublin

It was when you were first told that santa was not real, that you finally began to feel silly for believing it, and it was only then you decided to stop being immature and grow up.

Until the people of this world grow up and stop believing in fairytales created for control and wealth, society can never move forward.

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By *pecialfinderMan
over a year ago

loughborough

"Dont blame religion for Human wrong doing"

But some would say humans made it

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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago

Bristol

"A report that some organised faiths are havens for abuse. Is Religion a force for good or evil.. ?"

It’s all about control of the masses and brainwashing from an early age.

I glad I saw the light many years ago and realised what a crock of shit it all was

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I believe religion is a bad thing for humanity but is intended for good again this is my own opinion I'm actually pagan by religion

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"How would you Fabbers view religion, if some zealot used their religious power and influence to close this website and make swinging unlawful?

In the teaching of some religions swinging is already proscribed.

"
was discussing something similar to this today. View against poly in the western world likely came from the Christian /Victorian times as a way of control and managing wealth. But which came first ... ? Difficult to say.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Dont blame religion for Human wrong doing

But some would say humans made it"
we created religion to begin with to say that we didn't create religion is like saying marvel never invented the avengers

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"It was when you were first told that santa was not real, that you finally began to feel silly for believing it, and it was only then you decided to stop being immature and grow up.

Until the people of this world grow up and stop believing in fairytales created for control and wealth, society can never move forward. "

Humanity and religion in two sentences.

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By *immyinreadingMan
over a year ago

henley on thames

"How would you Fabbers view religion, if some zealot used their religious power and influence to close this website and make swinging unlawful?

In the teaching of some religions swinging is already proscribed.

Censoring and shutting down sites happens anyway, through politics, not religion. Religious leaders don’t have such powers, politicians do, and most parties are not confined to one faith or any faith

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By *egasus NobMan
over a year ago

Merton

Religion is a survival mechanism of the past as atheist is today in the west, in the future say 1000 years from now you might be the weird one or ostracize if you don't believe in Scientology as that was how people survived in the past regarding Christianity or Islamic.

Religion is both good and bad helps some people and guards them. The general rule is pretty fair if you go by that, however imposing on others is where the problem comes in butt, like any organization or business they need to recruit followers to survive.

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By *egasus NobMan
over a year ago

Merton

*Tradition Religion is a survival mechanism ...

*Tradition Religion is both good...

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By *ean counterMan
over a year ago

Market Harborough / Kettering

Keeping my thoughts to myself this time as I upset a few people with my "ignorant" comments about religion the other day

There are a few new religions currently out there which have the same affect on people and the same motives which is power and money and they are Facebook, twitter and tick tock

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Its both. A religion is a good thing for people to turn to when they need it in their darkest times.

Why can't that just be people? The existence of an unproven deity is not a necessity.

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

"Its both. A religion is a good thing for people to turn to when they need it in their darkest times.

Why can't that just be people? The existence of an unproven deity is not a necessity. "

For some it is, we might not understand it but it doesn’t mean it’s wrong. Religion / faith brings a lot of comfort to some in time of need.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"Its both. A religion is a good thing for people to turn to when they need it in their darkest times.

Why can't that just be people? The existence of an unproven deity is not a necessity. "

It's not a necessity but it's some peoples choice... And that's OK isn't it? I mean its their life to lead and their choice to make.

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By *irtyold manMan
over a year ago

barnsley

My thought on religion

Stupid folks who dont have ansers create religion to explain things.

If et landed tomorow some would treet them as god

Most religions are created by good men who understand the world would be a better place if we all got on well together.

Sadly most religion teachers twist the basic message of the original creator of the religion.

If budda.christ.krishna.alla. all returned to life tomorow and saw how the basic message has been twisted and misrepresented .its a good bet they would burn down theire own churches and sack every teacher and exclaim thats not what i said and not what i ment.

Its like chinese whispers the message gets distorted every time its repeted

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Religion simply has no place in modern society, it defies all logic

Mrs

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By *oubleswing2019Man
over a year ago

Colchester

"If et landed tomorow some would treet them as god"

I'm not religious, scientific.

If aliens did arrive tomorrow, then they would be gods, in scientific terms.

The level of scientific knowledge they would have needed to possess, to achieve travelling vast distances, is beyond our comprehension and understanding. And by virtue, the power to do so equates them to Gods, albeit scientifically.

So yeah, I think it'd be pretty foolish to upset them and not do as they say, because they most likely could vaporise us in an instant.

When humans do meet aliens, I think they are going to be in for a rude awakening as to our importance in the Universe.

Look at our own colonisation techniques of indigenous first world peoples in history. I have no doubt alien cultures have experienced the same.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"Religion simply has no place in modern society, it defies all logic

Mrs "

And there is only room for logic in modern society?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Religion was a control tool, control the unknown and known, made by humans."

It certainly was a control took, written by sl@ve owners to maintain the then status quo, nowt much has changed in that regard.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A report that some organised faiths are havens for abuse. Is Religion a force for good or evil.. ?"

Any organisation where one or the few holds sway over the masses could be potentially described as such, religion is only one...

We've all heard of abuse taking place from within our military, football coaching, Oxfam workers in Hati and even from within the halls of entertainment yet are we saying any of these institutions are evil?

The fact is these abusers get away by hiding in plain sight as there cover.

Religion as a concept shouldn't be questioned and should no more be blamed than the charities, schools or political fields that these bastards also frequent.

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By *tue555Man
over a year ago

Passed Beyond Reach

"It's both. It depends on the person in question.

There are devout people who do good works. There are people out there who don't practice what they preach and hide behind a mask.

Organized religion tends to lose its way, you only have to look at the wealth amassed by the Vatican while people in the world starve. That was not in the gospel.

Jesus himself preached against religion. "

Aggree Think need to separate the two faith and religion. I would say that religion is a corruption and explotion of faith I lean towards religion being force for bad, control and manipulation of faiths for the gain/wealth of individuals.

Until the end of KH VIII rein it was heresy which would result in being drawn and quartered for reading the bible (if you could read) unless you were appointed by the church.

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