FabSwingers.com forum: Toyota zero emission car

By *icolerobbie OP Couple
over a year ago

walsall

Toyota have launched a zero emission car powered by a hydrogen cell. It has the same range as a petrol/ diesel car and takes five minutes to refuel.

Could this be the end of electric vehicles before they have even got off the ground?

What are your thoughts?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Wow!

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By *ebjonnsonMan
over a year ago

Maldon

"Toyota have launched a zero emission car powered by a hydrogen cell. It has the same range as a petrol/ diesel car and takes five minutes to refuel.

Could this be the end of electric vehicles before they have even got off the ground?

What are your thoughts?"

I hope so.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Technology blows my mind!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Toyota have launched a zero emission car powered by a hydrogen cell. It has the same range as a petrol/ diesel car and takes five minutes to refuel.

Could this be the end of electric vehicles before they have even got off the ground?

What are your thoughts?"

What will the price be? If it can do that but costs 3 times the price then electric will still be an option

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I remember watching a World In Action doc as a car mad kid back in the late 70's.

They where predicting hydrogen was the way to go back then.

I think that the application of graphine in batteries may level up the playing field a little with faster charging and better range.

The problem for both technoligies is infrastructure, or the lack of it.

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By *icolerobbie OP Couple
over a year ago

walsall

"Toyota have launched a zero emission car powered by a hydrogen cell. It has the same range as a petrol/ diesel car and takes five minutes to refuel.

Could this be the end of electric vehicles before they have even got off the ground?

What are your thoughts?

What will the price be? If it can do that but costs 3 times the price then electric will still be an option"

Yes, price will be key.

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By *icolerobbie OP Couple
over a year ago

walsall

"I remember watching a World In Action doc as a car mad kid back in the late 70's.

They where predicting hydrogen was the way to go back then.

I think that the application of graphine in batteries may level up the playing field a little with faster charging and better range.

The problem for both technoligies is infrastructure, or the lack of it.

This is the biggest problem with Electric cars at the moment

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By *hunky GentMan
over a year ago

Maldon and Peterborough

Honda are also working in this - others will follow.

It is the future.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"Technology blows my mind!"

Aren't you worried? What with your name n all ?

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By *bboredguyMan
over a year ago

dundee

Toyota launched the Mirai in 2014 !!

I've only been in 1 and it was a taxi

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By *icolerobbie OP Couple
over a year ago

walsall

I watched Guy Martin, fastest electric car on tv last leek. He did a long distance road trip to Scotland and it cost more to charge the car using fast chargers then if he had drove a diesel. And that was after finding one that that actually worked.

It’s this type of real world use that puts people off.

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By *icolerobbie OP Couple
over a year ago

walsall

"Toyota launched the Mirai in 2014 !!

I've only been in 1 and it was a taxi "

I’ve never seen one.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What are the costs and enviromental impact of producing the hydrogen and transporting it to where its needed?

At the moment all these "green Technology's" do is move the enviromental affects to another location.

But i guess out of sight out of mind makes a big difference to what people will do.

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By *bboredguyMan
over a year ago

dundee

"Toyota launched the Mirai in 2014 !!

I've only been in 1 and it was a taxi

I’ve never seen one."
i

There was a taxi in Aberdeen and we have a hydrogen fuel centre here too ..

The cheapest Mirai is £65k

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's all well and good having a hydrogen powered car but there's nowhere to charge it

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By *immyinreadingMan
over a year ago

henley on thames

"I watched Guy Martin, fastest electric car on tv last leek. He did a long distance road trip to Scotland and it cost more to charge the car using fast chargers then if he had drove a diesel. And that was after finding one that that actually worked.

It’s this type of real world use that puts people off."

Electric vehicles are currently somewhere between a fantasy and an indulgence. Too expensive, too inconvenient, solely focussed on emissions (ignoring all of the other impacts production has), and disastrous travel ranges and refuelling times. Ok for a short commute, but so is a bike.

Hopefully hydrogen move the game forward fast.

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By *icolerobbie OP Couple
over a year ago

walsall

"It's all well and good having a hydrogen powered car but there's nowhere to charge it"

All the current petrol stations could be converted.

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By *icolerobbie OP Couple
over a year ago

walsall

It’s this type of real world use that puts people off.

Hopefully hydrogen move the game forward fast. "

I agree with this. The technology isn’t quite there yet.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's all well and good having a hydrogen powered car but there's nowhere to charge it

All the current petrol stations could be converted."

It's the same issue with electric really although that's slightly better in terms of charging availability

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What are the costs and enviromental impact of producing the hydrogen and transporting it to where its needed?

At the moment all these "green Technology's" do is move the enviromental affects to another location.

But i guess out of sight out of mind makes a big difference to what people will do."

The scheme that 'we' are heading for is producing hydrogen from fossil fuels, it woukd have less of a footprint just using the fossil fuel directly

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By *iketoshow74Man
over a year ago

Northampton

"It's all well and good having a hydrogen powered car but there's nowhere to charge it

All the current petrol stations could be converted."

This is being looked at, trouble is the storage for hydrogen is bigger so some town petrol stations will not have the room to covert.

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By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

I’m all for Hydrogen powered vehicles and central heating, but it needs to be using Green Hydrogen - produced from renewable energy (Wind, Solar, Hydro). If we use Blue or Grey Hydrogen - created by burning fossil fuels, then we aren’t exactly changing anything.

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By *100Man
over a year ago

Essex

Technology is moving to fast who knows what to buy

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Technology is moving to fast who knows what to buy"

its the old VHS/Betamax thing again really

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Or the rise and fall of the mini disc if you remember those

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Mass hydrogen distribution and storage is a bit of a pain, don’t expect anything soon.

Plus the production, as already mentioned; with domestic central heating being only hydrogen-based for new boilers from 2025, keeping up with demand might be an issue.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hydrogen fuel cells still power electric cars - asking if hydrogen fuel cell is the end of EV's is an oxymoron. A hydrogen fuel cell is just a different type of battery and the Mirai is an electric car.

JCB have developed a hydrogen internal combustion engine, uses their existing diesel bottom end with new trickery on top. Not sure if it is zero emissions as I imagen it will need some kind of lubrication but still a big step on from fossil fuel with the ability to fill and go like a diesel.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Cars can run on water look up Stanley Meyer

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By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

I am concerned about recycling electric car batteries. The elements included in them are a challenge to mine and ultimately dispose of.

Hydrogen appears better as it used water. But you have to split water into Oxygen & Hydrogen. To do this you need energy. If this energy is fossil fuel, then it does not reduce carbon emmision. For Hydro to really benefit us all, it needs to be generated from renewables.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What are the costs and enviromental impact of producing the hydrogen and transporting it to where its needed?

At the moment all these "green Technology's" do is move the enviromental affects to another location.

But i guess out of sight out of mind makes a big difference to what people will do.

The scheme that 'we' are heading for is producing hydrogen from fossil fuels, it woukd have less of a footprint just using the fossil fuel directly "

The idea isn't to produce using fossil fuels though, certainly not longterm. The trouble with many forms of renewable energy is storage, wind and solar vary depending on weather conditions, using excess generation when it's not needed elsewhere to make hydrogen is a good storage solution.

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By *p4funCouple
over a year ago

Plymouth

I read somewhere that bmw and vw stayed away due to the energy it takes and loses to produce 100 watts from the cells making electricity their preferred direction (or maybe there's less profit ) lol.

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By *icolerobbie OP Couple
over a year ago

walsall

"Hydrogen fuel cells still power electric cars - asking if hydrogen fuel cell is the end of EV's is an oxymoron. A hydrogen fuel cell is just a different type of battery and the Mirai is an electric car.

Mr"

Agreed, but I was referring to ev’s in their current format of charging batteries rather than hydrogen fuel electricity production.

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By *hesblokeMan
over a year ago

Derbyshire village

If they can solve the infrastructure issues, then yeah this will be great.

I can't see, presently, where they're going to put hydrogen filling pumps (the H&S exec would just love them to be put next to petrol pumps I'm sure) and of course actually installing all the systems needed will take a load of work, money and energy. But I can't see any other way forward apart from Start Trek teleporters

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By *astlincscoupleCouple
over a year ago

Tinsel Town

Toyota designed a hydrogen car back in the 80s.

As did several other manufacturers. It's certainly not something new.

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By *orthern StarsCouple
over a year ago

Durham

Mr has said for years that hydrogen is the way forward.

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By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

"What are the costs and enviromental impact of producing the hydrogen and transporting it to where its needed?

At the moment all these "green Technology's" do is move the enviromental affects to another location.

But i guess out of sight out of mind makes a big difference to what people will do.

The scheme that 'we' are heading for is producing hydrogen from fossil fuels, it woukd have less of a footprint just using the fossil fuel directly

Sadly the Govt is backing Blue Hydrogen which is produced using fossil fuels. Another idiotic idea from Boris!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Cars can run on water look up Stanley Meyer"

No they can't. He was sued and found guilty of 'gross and egregious fraud' and his system was proved to be nothing more than electrolysis. He had his chance in court to prove his system worked and was unable to do so.

The laws of thermodynamics cannot be broken however much conspiracy theorists like to believe they can.

There's plenty of material to read about free energy and perpetual motion machine fraud but the Wiki page on Meyer is a good a place as any to get the truth.

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By *icolerobbie OP Couple
over a year ago

walsall

"Cars can run on water look up Stanley Meyer"

Wasn’t this a fraud? I believe he was convicted for this.

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By *p4funCouple
over a year ago

Plymouth

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://theconversation.com/amp/hydrogen-cars-wont-overtake-electric-vehicles-because-theyre-hampered-by-the-laws-of-science-139899&ved=2ahUKEwjvuaal8cbyAhXHTMAKHb2mBZwQFnoECBUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0KnmXSt8bj81_ACtEH_rgi&ampcf=1

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By *icolerobbie OP Couple
over a year ago

walsall

"Toyota designed a hydrogen car back in the 80s.

As did several other manufacturers. It's certainly not something new."

Yes, neither were EV’s. we had milk floats doing the rounds long before Tesla’s and fork lift trucks doing the lifting.

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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville

Commenting as I love hearing debates on tech. There's no doubt a shift from oil, so some kind of industry has to take it's place. Unless there are moves in solid state batteries, I cannot see the UK importing the tonnes in materiels annually needed to produce them. A world run on batteries just doesn't sound feasible.

China (likely India) will play an important role, as it seems to be moving toward greener tech.

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By *icolerobbie OP Couple
over a year ago

walsall

"https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://theconversation.com/amp/hydrogen-cars-wont-overtake-electric-vehicles-because-theyre-hampered-by-the-laws-of-science-139899&ved=2ahUKEwjvuaal8cbyAhXHTMAKHb2mBZwQFnoECBUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0KnmXSt8bj81_ACtEH_rgi&ampcf=1"

Interesting read. Thanks for the link.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

another issue is battery tech.

charge rates, weights, capacities and the final range of the vehicle are all limited and there needs to be a big step forward in all of these.

I traveled 400 miles to get to where i was working last week. that would have ment at least 1 recharge stop. thats a big time loss to company's if there workforce has to do that every day

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By *adyJayneWoman
over a year ago

Burnleyish (She/They)

"It's all well and good having a hydrogen powered car but there's nowhere to charge it

All the current petrol stations could be converted."

Could but there aren't currently plans too. Hyundai have had a hydrogen car for a while. Tucson was launched 2005 iirc but wasn't available in the uk. It's now called the Nexo and has been available since 2019.

I would love one but my nearest filling station is currently Sheffield and there aren't plans for one closer till 2024 I think.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Interesting read- especially the bit at the end about where the figures come from ...

The question is, will the inefficiency of hydrogen be offset by the convenience? I personally agree with the article that the best solution is battery change stations but that will require industry buy-in. Given the quantities that China is likely to produce/demand that may end up being inevitable.

The beta max/video question got raised above and its important. If you buy a standard battery EV you can already charge it at lots of places and if they all shut you can still plug it in at any socket for a slow charge. If you buy hydrogen you're stuffed if fill up points don't appear - or like lpg start being removed. If hydrogen is the way to go then the government needs to provide assurances, including explaining where they intend to get twice the amount of electricity current battery EV's need.

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By *ean counterMan
over a year ago

Market Harborough / Kettering

"Toyota have launched a zero emission car powered by a hydrogen cell. It has the same range as a petrol/ diesel car and takes five minutes to refuel.

Could this be the end of electric vehicles before they have even got off the ground?

What are your thoughts?"

God I hope so ! I don't want an electric car as for some reason they are ugly. I've no idea why this is but probably because they don't need a front grill and that's what gives the cars character. Always makes me laugh when I see someone driving a Tesla as they are one of the ugliest on the market, they look like a Korean attempt at designing a car ! ??

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I was so hoping Audi were going to produce the hybrid concept car they came out with about 5 years ago.

Was a new take on the classic Quattro.

5.2 liter V10 plus a 110KW electric motor. total of about 700hp.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"another issue is battery tech.

charge rates, weights, capacities and the final range of the vehicle are all limited and there needs to be a big step forward in all of these.

I traveled 400 miles to get to where i was working last week. that would have ment at least 1 recharge stop. thats a big time loss to company's if there workforce has to do that every day

How many people travel 400 miles a day for work?

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By *oldswarriorMan
over a year ago

Falkirk

"I was so hoping Audi were going to produce the hybrid concept car they came out with about 5 years ago.

Was a new take on the classic Quattro.

5.2 liter V10 plus a 110KW electric motor. total of about 700hp."

Audi dropped the idea as they wouldn't sell enough of them.

The current V8 RS6 can be re-tuned to 750 bhp. Without the extra weight of a hybrid system.

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By *inkyeroticaCouple
over a year ago

Ampthill

The future won’t be internal combustion, but electric! It’s how we get the electricity and store it that becomes the question!

In many ways, hydrogen is the perfect fuel. It can be produced in a renewable way, and it only produces water as its emissions! Electricity is generated using the hydrogen stored in the vehicle, and refuelled at a station in a way recognisable to petrol or diesel drivers.

Hydrogen cars are nothing new. Honda and Toyota have invested heavily into it (Honda own an island in Japan powered by hydrogen produced on site, and all cars are hydrogen powered!) The concept is proven to work.

Hydrogen fuel stations are few and far between in the UK (8) but growing and ideal for busses and HGVs. Hydrogen will require a global governmental push to get traction.

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By *icolerobbie OP Couple
over a year ago

walsall

"The future won’t be internal combustion, but electric! It’s how we get the electricity and store it that becomes the question!

Hydrogen fuel stations are few and far between in the UK (8) but growing and ideal for busses and HGVs. Hydrogen will require a global governmental push to get traction.

Maybe the plan to change from gas to hydrogen boilers to heat our hones may help drive infrastructure, in the same way that nuclear weapons and nuclear power did?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Suzuki had a hydro bike in development for years. Not sure what happened to the project

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