FabSwingers.com forum: really dark thread. . . .concerns parenting. . .

By *urious.couple OP Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

Ok this has nothing at all to do with swinging, but I would really appreciate some anonymous and impartial advice, so here goes.

I am very seriously concerned that a young relative of mine has behavioral issues that border on psychopathy. He is nine years old. Bear this in mind when you read through a list of what has brought me to this conclusion.

*persistent lying

*incredibly manipulative behaviour, such as sucking his thumb and talking in a baby voice when he wants his parents to stick up for him

*throwing stones at toddlers

*trying to get toddlers to walk along walls with five foot drops on one side

*repeatedly trying to get younger children to go to places that are secluded and are explicitly forbidden

*telling small children detailed horror stories

*when confronted with his behaviour he either lies, or just stares. Completely expressionless.

*reacting in a very cold yet aggressive way when adults try to talk to him.

Am I being unreasonable in thinking this behavior is way more than just little boys mischief?

How do I keep my little one safe? I used to say she had to stay in my sight at all times if he is at a family function, but this isn't detering him. . . .

I don't know if I'm being hysterical and over protective. . . . Help!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Speak to his parents. Do they know about all these things?

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By *aceytopWoman
over a year ago

from a town near you

i would say from what you have written that your concerns are very real,personally i wouldnt let a child of mine within a million miles of this one(although mine are all grown up now)i should think this child has serious issues

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By *lare GTV/TS
over a year ago

South of Sleaford

I think you are correct being concerned and not over reacting.

I feel the subject of your observations is more likely to be a sociopath which is one step down (sort of) from a psycopath. I suggest you goggle both terms if you have not already done so.

Adult sociopaths are very plausible and very clever in their manipulations. You perhaps need to see if one or both of the parents exhibit similar symptoms which the child has learnt. I know a couple of sociopaths so I can comment further if you wish.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you have concerns, keep your children away. thats the only way to know that they are 100% safe from this behaviour,, even if he isnt a psychopath, he does have behavioural problems, throwing stones at younger kids etc... it could escalate.

You do what you feel is safe for your kids.. and definitely talk to his parents about your concerns perhaps suggest they get a couple of child psychology books it may be that he is being bullied at school by older kids or something

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'd find some of this worrying yes.Do u know if they have/had any animals at home?

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By *urious.couple OP Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

The parents have another child, a little girl, who is actually a delight. She is younger. The parents both seem balanced.

They are aware of some of these incidents. They often seem to wait for me to say something to the children before they step in.

My instinct is to tell them that I do not trust their child and I don't want him near my daughter or nephew. But that will cause a world of trouble.

Think I'll just tell other members of the family that he is not to even be out of earshot if he is playing with my child.

He creeps me out. I know thats a terrible thing for an adult to say about a child, but he reminds me of 'we need to. talk about Kevin'

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By *urious.couple OP Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

"I'd find some of this worrying yes.Do u know if they have/had any animals at home?"

No, but I had wondered about that myself as the hurting of animals and small children does seem to go together. . . .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

deffo hun has serious problems ,,u cud try chattin 2 m,i,n,d,n gettin expert advice n mayb they will chat 2 parents n give him the help n support he desperatly requires ,gud luk ,,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I know adults who pull shit like that let alone kids !

In response to your question, you have the right to remove your chold from his company if you feel she is being mistreated / bullied by him.

If she has to be in his company, then keep an eye on them BOTH at all times.

As others have said, speak to his parents although tact is paramount.

No one likes to hear criticism levelled at their children especially if behavioural issues / psychosis is being mentioned and I feel you need to tailor your approach accordingly.

If the child is a family member tread extra carefully.

Good Luck

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By *uggers nemesisCouple
over a year ago

london

NO YOU ARE NOT BEING OVER-PROTECTIVE OR HYSTERICAL,IN FACT ITS ABOUT TIME PARENTS STARTED TO LOOK AT CHILDREN IN THIS WAY,THINK OF HOW MANY SERIAL KILLERS THAT SHOWED EARLY SIGNS OF PSYCHOPATHY,EVERYTHING YOU HAVE SAID SEEMS TO SUGGEST THAT THIS CHILD IS EMOTIONLESS,UNFEELING AND VIOLENT,IF HE STARTS HURTING ANIMALS THEN HE WILL HAVEDISPLAYED ALL THE SIGNS.MORE TO THE POINT WHAT CAN ACTUALLY BE DONE,EVEN IF YOU KNOW A CHILD IS POTENTIALLY VERY DANGEROUS WHAT CAN BE DONE ABOUT IT O STOP I? THE ANSWER IS NOTHING,THEY MAY GIVE HIM DRUGS OR OFFER COUNELLING BUT NOT MUCH ELSE

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Poor soul. He needs some help by sounds of it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Agree with much of what everyone has said above. It does sound 'like' sociopathy, but it is impossible to say for certain unless he is properly assessed.

The parents apparent reticence to step in when things are affecting your child very much concerns me. Are they too hands-off? Maybe they are as worried about the behaviour but are afraid of the perceived shame on their family if social workers/psychiatry teams get involved (and it sounds like they need to).

'Maybe' if you sat down with the Mum and Dad and offered to help them approach the right people...? Sound like it is THEY who need the help first...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I know adults who pull shit like that let alone kids !

In response to your question, you have the right to remove your chold from his company if you feel she is being mistreated / bullied by him.

If she has to be in his company, then keep an eye on them BOTH at all times.

As others have said, speak to his parents although tact is paramount.

No one likes to hear criticism levelled at their children especially if behavioural issues / psychosis is being mentioned and I feel you need to tailor your approach accordingly.

If the child is a family member tread extra carefully.

Good Luck

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 04/09/12 13:16:40]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

well as I dont obviously like the labeling that can come with childrens diagnosis's I wouyld say family or friends aside..ur children are paramount to anything else.Make it clear to the relatives, and if they can convey to this child his behaviour is what stops him visiting u's perhaps itll sink in...he needs top realize early on, his actions have consequences..and u dont want ur children being one of those consequences if nothing is being addressed.

harsh but prioritize whats important.

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By *urious.couple OP Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

He has always been very spoilt and indulged, and for a long time we just thought he would be a little brat.

I don't feel I can talk openly to the parents. When I challenged him about throwing stones the mother asked what was going on. I said and she asked if I wanted her to say anything. Bear in mind that she is my aunt. I feel odd telling someone of an older generation how to raise their kids. . . .

When things have been said in the past, the father especially tries to laugh it off with comments like 'well at least he's good looking'

Ugh. Nightmare.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'd aslo find out about if this child is being bullied at school in some way, or the friends that he hangs about with.

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By *urious.couple OP Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

Thank you all.

I know I need to prioritize. The situation has further complications that I won't go into here and bore you all with, but I think from now on, any contact she has with him is with me sat in on it. That way I can protect her.

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By *uggers nemesisCouple
over a year ago

london

"He has always been very spoilt and indulged, and for a long time we just thought he would be a little brat.

When things have been said in the past, the father especially tries to laugh it off with comments like 'well at least he's good looking'

Ugh. Nightmare. "
TED BUNDY WAS CONSIDERED GOOG-LOOKING.THE PARENTS WILL HAVE A LOT TO DO WITH THIS,ESPECIALLY THE MOTHER

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By *urious.couple OP Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

"I'd aslo find out about if this child is being bullied at school in some way, or the friends that he hangs about with."

Some of this behavior, such as the lying, manipulative behaviour, the cold looks, impassive reactions to conflict or authority, have been going on since before school!!!

I have asked around the family and it appears that he is much more likely to be the bully at school.

His parents have stopped him watching 'horrid Henry' as they blamed this for his behaviour.

His behaviour has not improved now he doesn't watch this.

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By *urious.couple OP Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

"He has always been very spoilt and indulged, and for a long time we just thought he would be a little brat.

When things have been said in the past, the father especially tries to laugh it off with comments like 'well at least he's good looking'

Ugh. Nightmare. TED BUNDY WAS CONSIDERED GOOG-LOOKING.THE PARENTS WILL HAVE A LOT TO DO WITH THIS,ESPECIALLY THE MOTHER"

Alright dear, calm down! Stop shouting!! I don't think we're quite at Ted Bundy levels just yet!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You are asking for people to be impartial, but you are being far from impartial in your attitude towards this child.

All the things you mention, MAY point to some of the things you suggest, but is your approach balanced or are you own ideas influenced by how you have seen him treating your child ?

Once someones mind is made up, we often find that we look for things to confirm our own beliefs and that by looking for bad behaviour in him you are seeing it.

You don't mention in your opening post just how often your daughter is in his company either attended or unattended, nor do you touch on his own family situation other than to say his dad 'laughs it off'

I am not detracting from my intial post here as I do believe that if you have worries then a carefully phrased discussion with his parents is the best way forward, along with keeping your daughter out of his company.

I have no problem with any parent (or indeed any adult) being protective of a child, but by the same token we must try not to write off the other child involved.

If you feel you cannot speak to your relative directly try speaking to a matriarch or a patriarch within your family unit that the parents MAY listen to.

That may create friction within itself though but is your only way forward without creating / escalating a situation beyond its boundaries and involving outside agencies, which on the basis of what I read above would be an over reaction.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Has he got a younger sibling? This kind of behaviour can simply come down to attention seeking. If he has been smothered with affection and attention and then something comes in the way of this, he is bound to react in ways to focus the attention back to himself.

I agree it is worrying for other childrens parents whose child is around him, and that the child may need some sort of help, but the help may be able to come from his own parents.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It does sound like there's some concerns ... but my overiding concern would be what a desperately sad little boy this kid is and what is going on in his home/life and little head. Sound like he needs some love.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

...bullies are generally bullied themselves too ... poor kid

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He has always been very spoilt and indulged, and for a long time we just thought he would be a little brat.

When things have been said in the past, the father especially tries to laugh it off with comments like 'well at least he's good looking'

Ugh. Nightmare. "

Do I read into that correctly that parents are somewhat older than 'normal' for a child of 9....? The incidence of both mental and physical disability increases commensurately with the age of the parents - only have to look round the parents at Perky's daughters school (she has severe autism) to realise the average age is considerably above what you would see in a 'normal' school hall on parents evening...

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By *urious.couple OP Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

I fully agree with what you say bussy, and its precisely because I cannot distance myself emotionally from this situation that I am asking for impartial advice. As I mentioned in my original post, I don't know if I'm being hysterical, over protective etc.

I would love to feel able to talk to his parents about this, and perhaps talking to someone of their generation would help. For example, my father is the brother of the child's father. I know I would feel more comfortable having such a delicate discussion with my sister/brother about their concerns than from my niece or nephew.

Thank you very much for your Suggestions

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By *urious.couple OP Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

"He has always been very spoilt and indulged, and for a long time we just thought he would be a little brat.

When things have been said in the past, the father especially tries to laugh it off with comments like 'well at least he's good looking'

Ugh. Nightmare.

They were both about forty five when he was born.

I'm now feeling really guilty for thinking so meanly about a child.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The first step is to speek to their parent/ guardian and then for their parent to get in touch with doctor and health visitor..... First step to getting this child help......

And yes don't let ur kid/ kids be alone for all ur sakes......

Poor kid x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The first step is to speek to their parent/ guardian and then for their parent to get in touch with doctor and health visitor..... First step to getting this child help......

And yes don't let ur kid/ kids be alone for all ur sakes......

Poor kid x"

You can Also ask ur own doctor and health visitor for advice..... I have done this before and they were very understanding.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've always wondered about how they can show examples of empathy towards.Sure they take them on nature trails, have class pets to look after...but perhaps helping people/animals in need would be a way of improving childrens developments to be more socially caring individuals.

I know as a child I was fascinated by the make-up of insects, and from a studying point of view I'd be dissecting them..I never thought about inflicting pain/suffering(and as the order they come as I still dont see them as having the proper equipment to be aware of pain)-however I'm much more appreciative of them as living things now.

Now when we start going up the chain of sentience..I'd say it becomes worrying when we start wanting to inflict pain,suffering without knowing on an empathetic level about the consequences, unfortunately even a programme like 'you've been framed' doesnt help(sure there is an odd laugh here and there),but it can show some near horrific couldbeworse accidents.

My nieces n nephews were taught early on whats on TV entertainment wise is definitely not real, and were made aware of what is real ie news(I bet many dont explain the difference between horrible events in real life to those imagined).

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By *atinaBabeCouple
over a year ago

casa caliente

oh dear do what ur heart tells u protect ur kid def if was in ur situation i would keep my child away from thats look like a little devil and for that u said about his parents, think u gona waste ur time talking to them xxx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

smack the lil fcuker

i only got a hiding a handful of times as a kid but it was deserved and straightened me out if im honest

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By *stmateMan
over a year ago

Notts

If he tortures animals or insects and gets excited by it then I would tell his parents but u must choose ur words carefully as parents don't like anyone talking about their babies and will get their back up. kids aren't born like this, they learn things off other people.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Poor soul. He needs some help by sounds of it "
yes your right. Alot of the time there as reasons behind all this.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

please dont shoot me down just yet ; but whilst i symathise with the plight of the OP; is this something the FABLAND should discuss or get involved in?

There are proper authorities than can deal with these difficult issues

Yorkman - goes and hides now

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If he tortures animals or insects and gets excited by it then I would tell his parents but u must choose ur words carefully as parents don't like anyone talking about their babies and will get their back up. kids aren't born like this, they learn things off other people."
And your right young children learn things of others and TV .. SO i should be looking into all that . And even at diet Food and Drinks can send kids crazy too.

. Kids are not born bad ..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

please dont shoot me down just yet ; but whilst i symathise with the plight of the OP; is this something the FABLAND should discuss or get involved in?

There are proper authorities than can deal with these difficult issues

Yorkman - goes and hides now

this is a thread asking about perceptions and asking for advice..like many other threads irrespective of if they are about swinging or not..

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By *i 1 Get 1 FreeCouple (MM)
over a year ago

birmingham

"smack the lil fcuker

So, violence is the answer to all issues hey?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

lol no discipline is

if you class smacking your children as violence, thats not an opinion i share matey

i got the belt from my mum maybe twice in my life for some questionable behavior and i dont love her any less for it, plus it set me straight more importantly

discipline your children when its warranted and if the behavior remains or gets worse then i`d say its time to seek some outside help and advice

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"lol no discipline is

if you class smacking your children as violence, thats not an opinion i share matey

i got the belt from my mum maybe twice in my life for some questionable behavior and i dont love her any less for it, plus it set me straight more importantly

discipline your children when its warranted and if the behavior remains or gets worse then i`d say its time to seek some outside help and advice "

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By *atinaBabeCouple
over a year ago

casa caliente

"smack the lil fcuker

i only got a hiding a handful of times as a kid but it was deserved and straightened me out if im honest "

u are bloody right x

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By *appyprivateMan
over a year ago

Blackburn

Most of the key suggestions have been taken - speak to family, speak to health advisors/visitors, etc.

I'd try and be delicate with the parents - I deal with children in a youth group who have the odd three or four that come through the doors who the parents swear blind have no learning difficulties but we notice signa of autism, dyslexia and dyspraxia, etc. We bring the parents in, discuss what we've seen, ands delicately put forward suggestions, etc, to help the child at school, other aspects, etc.

If the parents still don't take it on board and won't help the child then I'd recommend speaking to your GP or Social Services. On the flip side, there may be something happening with the parents/child that you may not be aware of that needs looking at.

Hope that helps, and everything works out

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Its kind of hard to say without knowing his up bringing, if his parents have 'babied' him it could be no more than his up bringing, the sucking his thumb and talking in a babies voice sounds very much to me like hes mocking the way hes spoken to, like if his mum or dad speaks to him like a baby when they want me to behave he will speak in the same way back when hes wants them to do something for him, but again without knowing his back ground its hard to say, one of the signs of psychopathy is lack of guilt, empathy or emotion so the staring completely expressionless when confronted does sound like it could fall into that, the getting kids to do things he knows they are not supposed to could just be because he wants the phrases when he 'gets them into troube' by telling on them or it could be because he wants to put them in danger, most of the things you have stated could be one of two things, all the things together is a bit worrying

As for your kids, thats what they are, your kids, you do what you feel best for them, if you feel the need to exclude this child to keeps yours safe then thats what you must do, maybe if enough people kept their children away from him his parents may start seeing it too and go and get professional advice

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By *33dfulthingsMan
over a year ago

london

"The parents have another child, a little girl, who is actually a delight. She is younger. The parents both seem balanced.

They are aware of some of these incidents. They often seem to wait for me to say something to the children before they step in.

My instinct is to tell them that I do not trust their child and I don't want him near my daughter or nephew. But that will cause a world of trouble.

Think I'll just tell other members of the family that he is not to even be out of earshot if he is playing with my child.

He creeps me out. I know thats a terrible thing for an adult to say about a child, but he reminds me of 'we need to.

talk about Kevin'

I think the problems that could possibly occur between you adults is far less of an issue than your Childs safety. The fact that the boys parents watch on until you say something is also a bit worrying. If his actions are not picked up on and dealt with they will only get worse as he is not being corrected or given the neccessary guidance. Stay well clear

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By *obinhood-maidmarionCouple
over a year ago

Yorkshire

i share your concerns, but there are always 2 sides to every story, we have only heard yours (not saying your not correct mind) but all those activities or problems may stem from something else, for instance, at home his parents may mistreat him (not psyically or mentally) but just have a short fuse with him and chastize him for what we deem minor misdemeanours.

He may be a complete angel apart from when you see him.

What i would do is keep my children away from him and hope he grows up, i certainly wouldnt be approaching his parents about it, parents tend to be very protective.

good luck

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Personally I would go above the parents eg: the social services, having a disabled child with Autism that has character defects and not knowing what the hell she is going to do next, there has been many concerns outside the house where something has happened and then i have had my social worker turn up unannounced . She has many times tried to push me and her siblings down the stairs and through open windows. These children that have mental behavior's are incredibly strong and if they do flip at any given time there's not a lot you can do about it.It sounds as if the child does need assessing and quickly before he gets any older. My circle of friends here in Essex have many different types of disabilities in their children and what you are saying about this lad is not uncommon at all, it maybe a simple case of ADHA and the drug Ritalin will calm him right down. I hope that i have been of help and not just ranted on. If you would like to chat more then please do so. I love all these children and is good in all of them with the right help......

(Perky)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just come back to this after going to sunny Gatwick and back.

The more I read about the parents, the more I am starting to get the feeling 'therein lies the problem'. If they were childless prior to him coming along at the age of 45, they may well have been so overjoyed (they'll learn!!) at his arrival that they have cosseted him to such an extent that what you are actually seeing is a very petulant, manipulative child, rather than one who is suffering a true psychosis. In short - his parents treating him with kid gloves has turned him into a spoiled brat and they have put their own child on a pedestal (which would explain their denial when you bring anything in relation to your own child to their attention). To them, he is their 'Little Cherub'.. and it would take someone OUTSIDE the family and in authority to pull them out of their fairytale world and give him the kind of tough love it sounds like he needs.

I had older parents (though not as old as your Aunt and Uncle) and I must admit that, because I was acutely conscious that they were older than my mates parents, I was rather more precocious (some may say a pain in the arse!) than many of my peers.

Remember the Philip Larkin poem called 'This be the verse' and it's first line...

"Your parents, they fuck you up...."

Never a truer word spoken or written, in ones humble opinion...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"i share your concerns, but there are always 2 sides to every story, we have only heard yours (not saying your not correct mind) but all those activities or problems may stem from something else, for instance, at home his parents may mistreat him (not psyically or mentally) but just have a short fuse with him and chastize him for what we deem minor misdemeanours.

He may be a complete angel apart from when you see him.

What i would do is keep my children away from him and hope he grows up, i certainly wouldnt be approaching his parents about it, parents tend to be very protective.

good luck"

understand that the 2 sides to every story aspect is important.

However, I would say despite protective parents etc, I wouldnt be thinking about keeping my popularity if I was pretty sure I was seeing something nasty develop in a child.If u dont share that info and u hear somethings happened later, then u would feel probably worse than u are right now.Share the info with the parents, try to say it in the most polite manner-dont for one second call him a psycho/sociopath etc etc, just say how concerned u are about the situations u have been seeing and it worries u that he has been doing the same around ur own child.After all that its up to the parents to monitor their child and not u.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is a very worrying post and your reaction is not at all unreasonable.

This young child needs help and his parents who are by the sound of it aware and I think will not bother to get this child the help he needs.

This child was not born this way, hje has learnt this behaviour and SHOOT ME IF YOU WANT, but it seems to me that this child is maybe suffering some type of abuse himself hence his behaviour.

His parents who obviously are not helpinbg this child to get the psychological help he needs. No one knows what is happening to this child behind closed doors or any other doors.

I would go to social services and also speak to the school the child goes to. If necessary get the police involved. The more doors you knock on the more someone may listen and actually get this child the help he needs.

As for the safety of you and your children keep well away and if need be dont have anything to do with the parents as they are adding to the problems of this child.

Take it from someone who was severely abused in many forms as a child I know where he is coming from however my crimes were more illegal than harming or distrubing other children. I never got the help i needed as my parents were very clever and in them days parents had to be there when questioned so i had no chance of getting the help I needed. I had to wait til I was 23 before I was given the help I so desperately needed.

So my advice is

a) Ring everyone to make them aware of this childs behaviour

b) Tell the parents straight that their child needs HELP

c) Inform all social services, police, school and anyone else that is involved with the child

Good Luck and I really hope i have atleast said something thats helps.

Be safe and your children and your family come first.

Right gonna stop now as i could go on and on

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"This is a very worrying post and your reaction is not at all unreasonable.

This young child needs help and his parents who are by the sound of it aware and I think will not bother to get this child the help he needs.

This child was not born this way, hje has learnt this behaviour and SHOOT ME IF YOU WANT, but it seems to me that this child is maybe suffering some type of abuse himself hence his behaviour.

His parents who obviously are not helpinbg this child to get the psychological help he needs. No one knows what is happening to this child behind closed doors or any other doors.

As for the safety of you and your children keep well away and if need be dont have anything to do with the parents as they are adding to the problems of this child.

So my advice is

a) Ring everyone to make them aware of this childs behaviour

b) Tell the parents straight that their child needs HELP

c) Inform all social services, police, school and anyone else that is involved with the child

Good Luck and I really hope i have atleast said something thats helps.

Be safe and your children and your family come first.

Right gonna stop now as i could go on and on"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ok this has nothing at all to do with swinging, but I would really appreciate some anonymous and impartial advice, so here goes.

I am very seriously concerned that a young relative of mine has behavioral issues that border on psychopathy. . . . . Help!!!"

I've tried to reply privately as I think I might be able to help with this but men are blocked. If you would like some anonymous advice please write to me privately. I think this will allow me to reply confidentially to you.

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