FabSwingers.com forum: After the tragic shooting in Plymouth how dangerous are 'incels' ?

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I wanted start by saying how truly awful the Plymouth shootings were. I hope all 5 victims are at peace and seeing the picture of the 43 yr old dad and his 3 year old child in his carry sling was heartbreaking. I'm not that much younger with my own 1st child whom I often carry around like that so it really hit home to me.

The below article mentions the killer made references to "incels" in some online social media videos.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-58209726

Incels are members of misogynistic online groups of "involuntary celibate" men, who blame women for their sexual failings and who have been linked to a number of violent acts around the world.

I profess whilst I knew what the term incel meant I wasn't aware of the size of it globally as a belief system and that they are linked to essentially acts of terror.

Anyways its made me think a little more about some of the attitudes and abuse we have received from men on fab before. Given the huge numbers of men on fab and how hard it is for them to stand out, meet people it really isn't the place for any whom isn't at a really mature place in terms dealing with both rejection and thier feelings.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

I agree with your last paragraph and fully believe that the abuse given by men here is part of self loathing, lack of success in life and the need to place the blame for that on others and their target is women.

But I think it's less about him having access to an incel group and more to do with him suffering from mental illness.

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By *yron69Man
over a year ago

Fareham

The real problem is being able to get guns.

Why does anyone need to keep one?

I doubt he ever shot a pheasant and if he did, why not just hire on the day with a handful of rounds?

There will always be dicks, and tbh I have been though very negative feelings. Career and girl rejection. Humiliation, assault. But I only ever wanted to kill myself. But aggression lurks in the male mindset and you don’t have to travel far to meet uppity guys with huge chips on their shoulders.

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By *ellhungvweMan
over a year ago

Cheltenham

For what it is worth: I know a couple of my friends kids who would classify themselves as involuntarily celibate. They are shy, good kids. They just don’t have much luck around the ladies. They are not the most handsome kids and lacking a bit of muscle and that just means that if they go out with friends they sort of end up as the runt of the litter and generally just get the piss taken out of them by everyone - boys and girls. I can imagine life is super hard for them as the girls don’t want to be seen with them because of “credibility” issues. I am not suggesting for a second that they would do anything like this but I think a little empathy for their predicament would go a long way and tarnishing these two as “terrorists” because they can’t get laid seems incredibly harsh.

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By *urls and DressesWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere near here

I’ve just watched the news, and that photo all got to me, I carried my little one like that until he was 4. I can’t believe that it happened, I can’t begin to imagine what is going through their family’s minds.

I find the incel thing very frightening and as a woman I feel unsafe, especially considering the messages I receive on here. I guess it could be considered extremist.

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By *he FAB Social - MCRCouple (FF)
over a year ago

manchester

Imagine if someone was feeling like that and then joined somewhere like here with the male to female ratio. It’s a scary thought but surely there was more to it than just feeling like he couldn’t get a girlfriend

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By *iBBWLondonWoman
over a year ago

London

"I’ve just watched the news, and that photo all got to me, I carried my little one like that until he was 4. I can’t believe that it happened, I can’t begin to imagine what is going through their family’s minds.

I find the incel thing very frightening and as a woman I feel unsafe, especially considering the messages I receive on here. I guess it could be considered extremist."

Exactly this ^

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By *tue555Man
over a year ago

Passed Beyond Reach

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By *tue555Man
over a year ago

Passed Beyond Reach

Not making excuses for the behaviour of some guys, but couples and fems can be pretty shitty to guys and others, many without good reason just because they think it is acceptable and can get away with and they think they are better, not just here.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"For what it is worth: I know a couple of my friends kids who would classify themselves as involuntarily celibate. They are shy, good kids. They just don’t have much luck around the ladies. They are not the most handsome kids and lacking a bit of muscle and that just means that if they go out with friends they sort of end up as the runt of the litter and generally just get the piss taken out of them by everyone - boys and girls. I can imagine life is super hard for them as the girls don’t want to be seen with them because of “credibility” issues. I am not suggesting for a second that they would do anything like this but I think a little empathy for their predicament would go a long way and tarnishing these two as “terrorists” because they can’t get laid seems incredibly harsh."

I think you misunderstand what an "incel" is. It's not just a community of men who can't get sex

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By *entleman_spyMan
over a year ago

nearby

"The real problem is being able to get guns.

Why does anyone need to keep one?

I doubt he ever shot a pheasant and if he did, why not just hire on the day with a handful of rounds?."

Frankly our firearms laws are some of the best around, allowing people to have them for sport is just fine.

The problem comes when red flags are missed by the issuing authorities. In the end of the day the is the first instance in 10 years. What needs to be investigated, and I believe already is, is how this individual was able to hold his shotgun licence still. It sounds like it had been suspended at least once. The other thing here is not to equate a shotgun certificate (as held in this case) with a full firearms certificate, the former being much easier to obtain and keep.

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By *arakiss12TV/TS
over a year ago

Bedford

First I've heard of this group until this incident.

I've often shown sympathy for guys who struggle to get friendly with women.

I try to avoid any sex as they are usually after me just as a substitute or last resort, and I don't think it would help the situation for them.

For them it's a relationship they need.

That I can't help with, as I'm happy being single.

It is terribly hard for guys as they don't fit the bill for the majority of ladies.

Therapy groups may help but there is no easy solution. Schools don't teach how to handle rejection or how to prepare for married life just the penis goes in the vagina. 21 St century eh

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Not making excuses for the behaviour of some guys, but couples and fems can be pretty shitty to guys and others, many without good reason just because they think it is acceptable and can get away with and they think they are better, not just here.

In relation to the op, what's your point, caller?

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By *arakiss12TV/TS
over a year ago

Bedford

"The real problem is being able to get guns.

Why does anyone need to keep one?

I doubt he ever shot a pheasant and if he did, why not just hire on the day with a handful of rounds?.

Frankly our firearms laws are some of the best around, allowing people to have them for sport is just fine.

I agree, take away they gun but the problem would still exist that a person sets his or her mind to hurt. They'll use any method available. Knife, car or even bomb when pushed over the edge.

A psychological test should be incorporated.

Not 100% but a step in the right direction.

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By *ellhungvweMan
over a year ago

Cheltenham

I think you misunderstand what an "incel" is. It's not just a community of men who can't get sex "

I understand what an incel is - which is why I deliberately didn’t use the word. My point is that there are a lot of young men who are celibate but would not identify themselves as “incel” but who will have their already diminished confidence further destroyed through this. I can imagine that down the pub last night comments would have been made to them about whether they were going to do something similar. People are horrible to other people who are different.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

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By *tue555Man
over a year ago

Passed Beyond Reach

In relation to the op, what's your point, caller?"

Because the OP was about incels was related in some post to why some guys behave how they do here. I was simply saying it is not all guys and that other groups here can be just as shitty towards others but guys are an easy target thus highlights my point

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

I think you misunderstand what an "incel" is. It's not just a community of men who can't get sex

Sorry, misunderstood.

I think just using the phrase involuntarily celibate is assuming that ones celibacy is someone else's responsibility.

As to whether virgin men will be being asked if they're going to go on the rampage with a gun...maybe one or two people will say it but I'm not sure it'll be a problem

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By *atnip make me purrWoman
over a year ago

Reading

Its a good reminder to be kind. What incels do is completely on them but there are a lot more desperately unhappy people who would never do anything like this but are suffering.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I found the whole thing very upsetting and unsettling for many reasons. It's so sad for those who died, it's sad that someone clearly mentally unstable wasn't able to access the support he needed to avoid this. But it's also unsettling, because sometimes on this site I receive very aggressive and abusive messages from men when I turn them down, who at times either suggest or directly state that because I have naked pictures of myself in here, that I have an obligation to be more available to men who want sex. And some are very attacking with their comments.

Reading this story makes me wonder whether any of them are in incel groups. I'm not suggesting they definitely are, I'm just saying how the news story made me feel. It made me feel unsettled and honestly, slightly less safe.

Though I will also clarify that 99% of messages I get are either lovely or just wank fuelled horn. Neither of which are offensive or dangerous to me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Incels are probably no more or less dangerous than other extremist groups/organisations.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Incels are probably no more or less dangerous than other extremist groups/organisations."

Agreed. I think this story has just brought the groups into the light, I'm not sure many people were even aware of them before.

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By *entleman_spyMan
over a year ago

nearby

"I found the whole thing very upsetting and unsettling for many reasons. It's so sad for those who died, it's sad that someone clearly mentally unstable wasn't able to access the support he needed to avoid this. But it's also unsettling, because sometimes on this site I receive very aggressive and abusive messages from men when I turn them down, who at times either suggest or directly state that because I have naked pictures of myself in here, that I have an obligation to be more available to men who want sex. And some are very attacking with their comments.

Though I will also clarify that 99% of messages I get are either lovely or just wank fuelled horn. Neither of which are offensive or dangerous to me."

I saw some posts people were sharing after the event blaming women for not sleeping with him, like it was their fault. That is utterly demented, I had never heard of such a group until this event and it sickens me to think there are guys out there that think this way, even more so that there are some with that attitude on here. I was never “good with the ladies” in my younger days, mostly through my own shyness. The idea that there are men out there that think they are entitled to sex with a woman is just grotesque.

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By *annaBeStrongMan
over a year ago

wokingham

If we’re talking statistics then not very dangerous at all. Your far more likely to be hurt by your partner than a random incel

Doesn’t mean that extremism of any kind should be dealt with.

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By *topthepressMan
over a year ago

MANCHESTER

Maybe if he had got rid of that stupid beard he may have got somewhere

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Maybe if he had got rid of that stupid beard he may have got somewhere"

That made me giggle

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"Incels are probably no more or less dangerous than other extremist groups/organisations.

Agreed. I think this story has just brought the groups into the light, I'm not sure many people were even aware of them before."

No they weren't. On one hand I think it's good that more people will be aware of their existence and on the other I think that it will after some men.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

In relation to the op, what's your point, caller?

Of course we have experienced couples been rude, cross, bad sports, nasty even and once from a single women.

It's only been single men on here that have taken it beyond that though and into the realm of disturbing, unhinged and quite frankly frightening in the hate, virtrol and implied threats.

I'll temper that with 90% of single men we converse with are polite and gracious. We are talking about a small minority but its still significant and has in our view got a lot worse since covid and the influx of dreamers, fantasists and keyboard warriors.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The dangerous thing about Incel is the rise of misogyny and the belief that they should be allocated a woman for sex. My Sister in Law is a high school teacher and she has students who class themselves as Incel and who are challenging with female students and staff.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Incels are probably no more or less dangerous than other extremist groups/organisations.

Agreed. I think this story has just brought the groups into the light, I'm not sure many people were even aware of them before."

This is not the first 'incel' news story in the UK but probably the first prominent one.

Incels are linked to the 'Manosphere' which overlaps with the far-right/alt-right.

It will be perceived as a new and growing threat within the UK of home-grown terrorists and I expect lots of media articles on why the internet is a 'dangerous' place.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

Though I will also clarify that 99% of messages I get are either lovely or just wank fuelled horn. Neither of which are offensive or dangerous to me.

They aren't just "out there".

There are plenty of men who believe that women owe them sex. They use terms like "you're missing out" or " you need to give us (insert type of man they are) a chance". It's not anywhere close to incel behaviour but it's entitlement.

Plenty of women also believe they're entitled to sex from men though it's just a bit easier for them to get it.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"The dangerous thing about Incel is the rise of misogyny and the belief that they should be allocated a woman for sex. My Sister in Law is a high school teacher and she has students who class themselves as Incel and who are challenging with female students and staff. "

Really! That's disturbing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Incels are probably no more or less dangerous than other extremist groups/organisations.

Agreed. I think this story has just brought the groups into the light, I'm not sure many people were even aware of them before.

This is not the first 'incel' news story in the UK but probably the first prominent one.

Incels are linked to the 'Manosphere' which overlaps with the far-right/alt-right.

It will be perceived as a new and growing threat within the UK of home-grown terrorists and I expect lots of media articles on why the internet is a 'dangerous' place."

The internet isn't dangerous as such. People are dangerous (some are anyway). The internet just connects dangerous people together more easily.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Though I will also clarify that 99% of messages I get are either lovely or just wank fuelled horn. Neither of which are offensive or dangerous to me.

They aren't just "out there".

Plenty of women also believe they're entitled to sex from men though it's just a bit easier for them to get it."

Its those types of men that the incel movement ultimately attracts.

After constant rejection to be welcomed into a group and told actually its not your fault (or within your control) women should make themselves sexualy available to you as that's your right. Join us we know how you feel etc...

These right wing groups prey on people's insecurites, weaknesses and lure them in when they are at thier most vunerable.

Much like all forms of extremist groups sadly.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I find it heartbreaking that innocent people have died in this tragic way.

My sympathies go out to all the familes of the victims.

I think the media has a lot to answer for amd things need to change.

Sure I get the phsyical attraction has to be there but I see that even in this thread a guy has mentioned a friends kids who don't have muscles and aren't good looking.

I would think those kinds of comments don't help people socially intergrate or find a loving relationship.

Firstly the people who are not a fit in the norm for whatever reason feel isolated, rejected, under valued and unwanted.

Those that isolate them are mostly taken in by media stereotypes of the body beautiful and are usually sheep as a gang mentality that pervades our culture will poke fun or ignore anything different.

I'm not making excuses for the terrible things this guy did, just discussing the possible reasons within the groop.

Ultimately our culture is still very shallow as is nature....

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

As long as I've heard of incels I've found their ideology deeply troubling and at times scary. As this week I've had a picture of me in lingerie posted on the Internet with my full name, age, profession and that I'm a "typical feminist that hates men but loves being objectified by them" I'm definitely very much on edge right now.

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By *parkle1974Woman
over a year ago

Leeds

"Maybe if he had got rid of that stupid beard he may have got somewhere"

What a childish comment and totally uncalled for.

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By *ellhungvweMan
over a year ago

Cheltenham

"As long as I've heard of incels I've found their ideology deeply troubling and at times scary. As this week I've had a picture of me in lingerie posted on the Internet with my full name, age, profession and that I'm a "typical feminist that hates men but loves being objectified by them" I'm definitely very much on edge right now. "

That is harassment and almost certainly against the law. I personally would like to see this kind of thing properly prosecuted as people would not do it in real life but they think (and actually can) it is ok online. actions need consequences and the sooner that is sorted then sooner the keyboard warriors will disappear.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I had never heard of the term Incel before. However doing some research, it is highly concerning, especially in this world here. It has unsettled me a lot.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oh my god. I hope you're OK. I'm sending you a huge hug.

I'm not even getting into this debate again as last night the discussion on the other thread did piss me off. But yes, I do they they are dangerous. And I do fear men who are part of these groups and for very good reason.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oh my goodness, that's awful! I'm so sorry, you must be devastated!

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

Jesus christ! What are you doing about it? I'm so sorry this has happened.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

Jesus christ! What are you doing about it? I'm so sorry this has happened.

Replying to you all in one here. Fortunately it was only up for a few hours and has now been removed. I think I know where they got the image but that doesn't really help me know who it was and actually makes it stranger. I don't really think there's anything I can do unfortunately. Thanks for the support everyone though. Weirdly I feel like every man I've told has expected me to be in hysterics about it but sadly I feel like I'm probably more densesitised to this sort of thing than I should be. People are dicks.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Imo, it's really hard to quantity. Thsoe that call themsleves as incel are (from my own reading and knowing ppl) very unhappy and damaged guys. Women are an easy target but they generally feel powerless and worthless and dismissed by society. I see similar concepts in other hate groups, and indeed other policical movements.

There will be dangerous individuals in the group, and the echo chamber nature of the group will possibly mean fuel is added to their anger which causes them to explode.

But many of the group are just damaged guys seeking solace. The ones I know that have started down this route are victims, often often from a maternal type figure. (Who I suspect are victims themselves)

Imo we need to seek to understand them and where they get their views from. In the same way I suspect many religious terrorism isn't really about religion, incel terrorism isn't really about women.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Maybe if he had got rid of that stupid beard he may have got somewhere"

Maybe if we all stopped ridiculing others based on our own perception of beauty people would be less likely to grow up developing mental health issues around their looks/worth?

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By *iaisonseekerMan
over a year ago

Liverpool

The so-called "incel" community is a modern manifestation of an ancient resentment based on the lazy trope that women can get sex whenever they feel like it, which completely ignores the role of female agency in choosing their sexual partners.

I don't think it has a coherent ideology to distinguish it from the more traditional misogyny that has characterised patriarchal society down the ages.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

Jesus christ! What are you doing about it? I'm so sorry this has happened.

Yeah, I think as women we expect *some* men to behave really badly.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Jesus christ! What are you doing about it? I'm so sorry this has happened.

Yeah, I think as women we expect *some* men to behave really badly."

I know revenge solves nothing, but can we not, as a community, find enough tech savvy people of our own to do the same. Post their picture with their real name and address and employer with the heading "I tried to ruin a woman's life because she posted an anonymous picture of herself in her underwear"?

See how they, their friends, colleagues, family react to that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think that as with most issues there's a spectrum. We have probably all felt occasions where we have low self esteem but for some this will be more chronic than others. Given the ratio of men to women on here it isn't surprising that there are more threads from men moaning about their lack of success but there are plenty from women too. A common theme on these threads is when others offer ideas to help the OP invariably gives a reason why this won't work/hasn't worked for them and the language used almost always contains at least a hint that this is the fault of others.

This is a mindset that is common to men and women and the negativity comes in waves from some profiles. Sadly, what the internet has done is given such people an echo chamber to voice their hurt and anger in, to recieve positive feedback for their ideas. This coupled with the the increased tendency for violence in young men is a recipe for disaster.

As someone commented above, horrific though this act is, it pales into insignificance compared to the routine levels of domestic violence, r@pe and murder that many women (and some men) face. Should more effort be put into dealing with the incel community? probably but let's not do what we always do, get all worked up by an event that due to its rarity is seen as something far more worrying while ignoring the fact that by the end of the month as many other women will have been killed by current or former partners than this guy killed in one go.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The so-called "incel" community is a modern manifestation of an ancient resentment based on the lazy trope that women can get sex whenever they feel like it, which completely ignores the role of female agency in choosing their sexual partners.

I don't think it has a coherent ideology to distinguish it from the more traditional misogyny that has characterised patriarchal society down the ages."

I wonder if the use of patriarchy plays into this? This isn't a fully formed idea, but in watching GoT it's true that the king's are top of the pile with all then money and seemingly extra privavkages from being a man, but it's also men who are cannon fodder.

Incels hate the men that win as much as women.

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By *efinitely MaybeCouple
over a year ago

Wakefield

Up to yesterday I also had never heard the term Incel

What I find concerning is the behaviour of high-school aged boys and young men.

I have 2 daughters, the eldest is a strong, confident, outspoken and intellectual who has gone toe to toe with certain boys throughout junior school and now is having to do the same in high school.

Because she is a confident girl who stands up, say no, argues back and generally doesn’t take shit from boys, apparently she’s a feminist, a lesbian and a man hater.

Dad’s job is to dust her down every now and then and send her back in to battle - whilst educating her that a significantly large amount of boys are dickheads, some will change as they get older, some are dangerous dickheads who won’t.

There has always been the girls v boys thing, but what is concerning is the venom in what is said to girls by boys at early teenage years, something is not right.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Up to yesterday I also had never heard the term Incel

What I find concerning is the behaviour of high-school aged boys and young men.

I have 2 daughters, the eldest is a strong, confident, outspoken and intellectual who has gone toe to toe with certain boys throughout junior school and now is having to do the same in high school.

Because she is a confident girl who stands up, say no, argues back and generally doesn’t take shit from boys, apparently she’s a feminist, a lesbian and a man hater.

There has always been the girls v boys thing, but what is concerning is the venom in what is said to girls by boys at early teenage years, something is not right.

The world needs more women like your daughters.

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By *iaisonseekerMan
over a year ago

Liverpool

I don't think it has a coherent ideology to distinguish it from the more traditional misogyny that has characterised patriarchal society down the ages.

Incels hate the men that win as much as women. "

But, rather than blame the men, don't incels despise women for flocking to certain "Alpha" types for want of a better expression?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Up to yesterday I also had never heard the term Incel

What I find concerning is the behaviour of high-school aged boys and young men.

I have 2 daughters, the eldest is a strong, confident, outspoken and intellectual who has gone toe to toe with certain boys throughout junior school and now is having to do the same in high school.

Because she is a confident girl who stands up, say no, argues back and generally doesn’t take shit from boys, apparently she’s a feminist, a lesbian and a man hater.

There has always been the girls v boys thing, but what is concerning is the venom in what is said to girls by boys at early teenage years, something is not right.

I really feel for you guys.

All I can do as a new parent to our son is bring him up the right way to respect women. I'd be motified if ended up been like the boys whom your daughter has to deal with.

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By *ellhungvweMan
over a year ago

Cheltenham

See how they, their friends, colleagues, family react to that."

Isn’t this exactly the mob like behaviour that is making the internet such an awful place? Doesn’t stooping to their level remove any moral standing?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't think it has a coherent ideology to distinguish it from the more traditional misogyny that has characterised patriarchal society down the ages.

Incels hate the men that win as much as women.

But, rather than blame the men, don't incels despise women for flocking to certain "Alpha" types for want of a better expression?"

They do. And they hate the alphas and anyone trying to up grade themselves. There's even a word for someone who starts going to the gym/dressing better. There is such a deep sense fomself hating that to protect themselves, everyone has to be hated. The darkest end of the spectrum is hateful to the extreme. The trouble is it's not hard to entice ppl in at the shallow end ...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There has always been the girls v boys thing, but what is concerning is the venom in what is said to girls by boys at early teenage years, something is not right.

I really feel for you guys.

All I can do as a new parent to our son is bring him up the right way to respect women. I'd be motified if ended up been like the boys whom your daughter has to deal with.

KJ"

Do you not think this could be causing the problem?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I haven't read through this thread but saw a couple yesterday about it and that was the first time I heard of the word incels. Its interesting how many people on Fab know about it.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

Jesus christ! What are you doing about it? I'm so sorry this has happened.

Yeah, I think as women we expect *some* men to behave really badly.

See how they, their friends, colleagues, family react to that."

I don't personally agree with this. I feel that if I knew the details of who with enough certainty, I'd hand it to the appropriate authorities.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"I think that as with most issues there's a spectrum. We have probably all felt occasions where we have low self esteem but for some this will be more chronic than others. Given the ratio of men to women on here it isn't surprising that there are more threads from men moaning about their lack of success but there are plenty from women too. A common theme on these threads is when others offer ideas to help the OP invariably gives a reason why this won't work/hasn't worked for them and the language used almost always contains at least a hint that this is the fault of others.

Mr"

Unfortunately its often similar ideas that lead to things like sexual assault and domestic violence. And lets not pretend that if one of these incels did manage to find a relationship they wouldn't be likely to then form part of that statistic. People who genuinely believe that women are awful, shallow people who only sleep with "the top 10% of men" are likely to be very jealous and controlling partners.

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By *efinitely MaybeCouple
over a year ago

Wakefield

Personally I think it starts with parenting, or lack of parenting should I say.

To bring up a child to be a confident, rounded, balanced, nice individual capable of contributing to society starts with parents at an early age - a very early age.

So many kids get no leadership, discipline, support and guidance these days, and with many parents setting a poor example themselves, some kids behaviour seems to be going backwards from what I see myself, and hear from my girls.

Let’s hope this 22 year old nutcase and all the talk of Incel doesn’t inspire anyone else, because there are loads and loads of folk like him out there.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Jesus christ! What are you doing about it? I'm so sorry this has happened.

Yeah, I think as women we expect *some* men to behave really badly.

See how they, their friends, colleagues, family react to that.

I don't personally agree with this. I feel that if I knew the details of who with enough certainty, I'd hand it to the appropriate authorities. "

Which makes you a much better person than me and I applaud you for it.

I'd like the media to deal with them frankly. Like the guy with the tiki torch at Charlottesville who thought there'd be no consequences, there are.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"Personally I think it starts with parenting, or lack of parenting should I say.

To bring up a child to be a confident, rounded, balanced, nice individual capable of contributing to society starts with parents at an early age - a very early age.

Let’s hope this 22 year old nutcase and all the talk of Incel doesn’t inspire anyone else, because there are loads and loads of folk like him out there."

Mental health can happen to anyone at anytime.

To the children of 'good' parents or to the children of less 'socially approved of' parents.

Was he a 'nutcase' or a person with mental health ?

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By *nfin8yWoman
over a year ago

Newcastle-under-Lyme

There is an interesting interview (Google BBC radio 5 interview) with the woman who first came up with the idea of incels and how this has evolved over time. The original premise was a positive one but with a public incident like this one the focus has turned (quite rightly) to those within our society who hold more extreme views and beliefs and how they may chose to act on them. It’s easy to say it’s to do with mental illness or feeling ostracised by society. There are many individuals with mental illness or who are lonely who would never act in this way. So what is it that triggers those individuals who do?It’s hard (maybe impossible) to try and piece possible motivations etc together after the fact though the authorities will undoubtedly try.

I know nothing of the law regarding gun licensing but maybe that is an area which needs further consideration given that many of the mass killings which have taken place in the UK have involved the use of firearms.

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall

The question is, did he kill because he was an incel? Or did he kill because he was mentally ill. Maybe his mental health steered into the incel category in the first place.

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By *atnip make me purrWoman
over a year ago

Reading

"Maybe if he had got rid of that stupid beard he may have got somewhere"

You joke but that's the whole thing with incels. They set themselves up to fail. It's very twisted.

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By *efinitely MaybeCouple
over a year ago

Wakefield

My definition of nutcase is anyone crazy enough to commit an act of violence against other people for what they believe.

His mental health may well have contributed to it, but so could his ideology and beliefs in the same way as for example religious beliefs contribute to terrorism around the world.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"The question is, did he kill because he was an incel? Or did he kill because he was mentally ill. Maybe his mental health steered into the incel category in the first place.

From the reading I did , he did not identify as an incel .... I read a quote he made saying , he did not 'clarify' as an incel.... he had looked at a website/group

It's like saying I'm a ( insert political party ) just because I went to their site to see what they were all about.

But people have latched onto the incel aspect whether it's true or not.

He was 'treated' for mental illness, his gun licence revoked and was investigated for domestic violence.

I have seen a video of him talking about how hopeless he feels and how he feels life is passing him by and he is not getting anywhere ........ at no point did he reference women or hatred of women - though i can't say ive seen everything in existence and you tube have now taken down his vids I believe.

He ranted about his Mother ????? I best watch out for my kids then ..... they'll be coming for me if some 'mother ranting' is evidence of intention.

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By *imbo59seMan
over a year ago

North Norfolk area

"There is an interesting interview (Google BBC radio 5 interview) with the woman who first came up with the idea of incels and how this has evolved over time. The original premise was a positive one but with a public incident like this one the focus has turned (quite rightly) to those within our society who hold more extreme views and beliefs and how they may chose to act on them. It’s easy to say it’s to do with mental illness or feeling ostracised by society. There are many individuals with mental illness or who are lonely who would never act in this way. So what is it that triggers those individuals who do?It’s hard (maybe impossible) to try and piece possible motivations etc together after the fact though the authorities will undoubtedly try.

We have some of the most strict laws on gun ownership in the world, but you can never count on somebody not misusing them.

Providing the police do their job properly as to the granting/renewing of Certificates, then it's probably as safe as it can be.

Dunblane happened because the Firearms Enquiries Officer's recommendation that Hamiltons renewal of his Firearms Certificate was overruled by his superior (an Inspector from recollection)!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I agree with your last paragraph and fully believe that the abuse given by men here is part of self loathing, lack of success in life and the need to place the blame for that on others and their target is women.

But I think it's less about him having access to an incel group and more to do with him suffering from mental illness.

Boom someones got it

The modern world hasnt been kind to traditional male roles, this is part of that fallout. Men have taken quite a bashing over the last few years, especially white men. Its no coincedence that this has risen with corealation to the rise of third wave feminism and intersectional idenity pollitics. Plus women in reality have the monoply on wether men are able to have sex (I cant think how to word that better). Which is becoming even more a loosing game with stuff like Tinder ect. Lots of men are just lost and fall through the cracks. Couple that with an increasing sense of entitlement from younger people and its going to end with negative consequences

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By *elkieWoman
over a year ago

Durham

He’s not the first, Elliot Rodgers did the same thing in California for roughly similar reasons.

Any extremist group is an issue, and incels are no less dangerous than any other. Vulnerable young men get groomed and encouraged to more radical views which make life harder for them at best, at worst lead to tragedies like this.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Really! That's disturbing. "

Sadly it is true. You have young men who are going on the many different social media platforms and finding people who are in similar social situations and they’re believing what they’re hearing. This is no different to far right or any religious fundamentalist indoctrination. But because it’s been ignored up to now

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Really! That's disturbing.

Far right or Far left, lets not have any bias here. They are both as bad as each other

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"He’s not the first, Elliot Rodgers did the same thing in California for roughly similar reasons.

I remember that

. There was also Tres Genco who fortunately was caught before he managed to go through with his plans.

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall

[Removed by poster at 14/08/21 14:00:04]

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall

Really! That's disturbing.

Far right or Far left, lets not have any bias here. They are both as bad as each other"

Definitely this.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How dangerous are 'incels'? well I think that depends on mental health of anyone

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"I had never heard of the term Incel before. However doing some research, it is highly concerning, especially in this world here. It has unsettled me a lot. "

I knew about incel culture prior, but lurking around here, I have to say I think there's a number of people who use Fab who identify with incel culture. I am regularly concerned for single members who meet others alone, because they've got no idea what they might be going into. I feel very privileged to have a fantastic life long partner and that my involvement in swinging/Fab is a) very much optional/supplementary and b) is with Mr KC beside me.

I hate that I feel safer because I have a man beside me (I hate the idea of needing to depend on someone else for my safety) but there we go.

Ladies (and men who might be the target of jealousy from those identifying as incels) - be very careful who you meet, where and always tell someone who you are meeting and where you are going!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oh I don't doubt that there will be some kind of overlap. My point is that society is full of people who blame everyone else for how miserable they are but they don't go around killing people because of it. The internet absolutely provides a path for such people to head towards more extremist views and groups/identities such as the incels will occasionally spit out tragedies such as this. Mean while, two women are murdered every week in this country and it barely makes the news. Because of the tragedy of so many dying at once and the connection with a semi secret society this incident catches our imagination and you have a bunch of swingers discussing whether there are incel like behavoirs in this group whilst ignoring the fact that statistically its many thousands of times more likely that there are men here who are (or have) abused their partners than one likely to go on an incel fueled killing spree.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think on a wider context, men are the cause of the majority of violence. But I think its easy to forget that this is only a small minority.

The current way society and the media like to demonise men is understandable, but if we dont start to understandcthe pressures everyone in society are facing we will have a lot more mental health problems across the board.

Normally guys like him would have just killed himself, but every so often you will get situations like this happening.

To address the violence in society we need to address the mental health problems in young men. I'm not saying any of this excuses violent men. But we need to tackle root causes and stop being so quick to say its a mans problem.

Its societies problem and we need to start tackeling problems as a g

Society and reduce the devisions in society and remember that we are all human beings no matter our creed, colour, religion, gender or sexual preference.

Apologies if this is a bit of a ramble.

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By *eavenscentitCouple
over a year ago

barnstaple

But I think it's less about him having access to an incel group and more to do with him suffering from mental illness.

Boom someones got it

Oh dear, poor white men. Had all the power for so long. How has the modern world not been kind to white men ?

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By *leeperMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Am still confused on how the killing was because he was an incel , it looks like a scapegoat term

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

But I think it's less about him having access to an incel group and more to do with him suffering from mental illness.

Boom someones got it

Oh dear, poor white men. Had all the power for so long. How has the modern world not been kind to white men ? "

"Oh dear, poor white men. Had all the power for so long"

Point proven. Instead of looking at the problem we have created you ignore the problem and is all about getting power over others, nothing about making the world any better.

Revenge for some historical slights is not equality

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Am still confused on how the killing was because he was an incel , it looks like a scapegoat term "

There's an 11 minute video where he talks about his beliefs and the incel movement. His You Tube Channel was subscribed to Incel TV and his posted a lot of you tube social media videos. The vast majority of them have now been taken down and can only be found on certain forums atm. The news media have a few videos but they are just a few small clips mashed together.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Am still confused on how the killing was because he was an incel , it looks like a scapegoat term

KJ "

I think this link should be allowed if not please delete it mods and apologies in advance.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/girl-16-says-reported-plymouth-24759062.amp

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By *omnlynneCouple
over a year ago

milton keynes

And got a decent haircut too

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall

"And got a decent haircut too"

Oh dear…

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

I don't doubt his mental ill health. I don't doubt his world view that white men have been hard done by, what with losing all that power to do whatever they want whenever they want. I don't doubt that he was perfect for radicalisation.

But!

Read Laura Bates' 2020 report on 'incels'.

I'm sure the thread has covered how demanding, entitled men approach women on here and how it turns us off. I'm sure it's covered 'nice men' who feel they are overlooked as women want 'bad boys'. I'm sure it's covered that women are rude and treat men like shit on here.

Us involuntarily celibate women may also have mental ill health and yet don't think killing people will make men give us sex.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't doubt his mental ill health. I don't doubt his world view that white men have been hard done by, what with losing all that power to do whatever they want whenever they want. I don't doubt that he was perfect for radicalisation.

But!

Read Laura Bates' 2020 report on 'incels'.

Us involuntarily celibate women may also have mental ill health and yet don't think killing people will make men give us sex.

I'm reading her book ATM. It's eye opening but also she has her own filters and biases.

I'm not sure even the incels think killing makes them great at sex. Or the eavwarhe incel even thinks about killing. I do suspect that the incel community (similar to other disenfranchised communities) can be the spark for those with the most violent tendencies (often male) to flip.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

But!

Read Laura Bates' 2020 report on 'incels'.

Us involuntarily celibate women may also have mental ill health and yet don't think killing people will make men give us sex.

I'm reading her book ATM. It's eye opening but also she has her own filters and biases.

We all have our own filters and biases.

I take a very long time before I allowing a man to spend the night with me because of my experience (not to be mentioned) when asleep.

I try not to read one source and to use my critical judgement to form my opinions.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Though I will also clarify that 99% of messages I get are either lovely or just wank fuelled horn. Neither of which are offensive or dangerous to me.

My understanding is thats what tends to happen in these incel groups but actually it's not the behaviour of the individual or them that needs to change anything but actually the women for not giving them what they want. And also some of them blame "alpha" males although I dont fully understand that aspect, it was just something a head in a radio interview.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I was talking about this to my niece and nephew and they had both heard of this term although I hadn't and they both said there are people at the college who identify as incel and some of them are quite aggressive towards women and some of the men that they see as a threat.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm so sorry that happened to you. Are you ok?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Maybe if he had got rid of that stupid beard he may have got somewhere

Maybe if we all stopped ridiculing others based on our own perception of beauty people would be less likely to grow up developing mental health issues around their looks/worth?

Mr"

Totally agree.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

I am really saddened that they are being indoctrinated so early. The internet is a double-edged sword.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

Yes, my son has said he's aware of some lads his age (18/19) who attended his college who were the same. Very concerning indeed, especially because young people are so immersed in online communities and so it's harder to pull them back from such things, especially older teens.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am really saddened that they are being indoctrinated so early. The internet is a double-edged sword."

Its terrifying and like I said it's a new term to me but to my shock my niece and nephew who were both college age knew all about it.

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall

I am really saddened that they are being indoctrinated so early. The internet is a double-edged sword.

Its terrifying and like I said it's a new term to me but to my shock my niece and nephew who were both college age knew all about it.

I think the internet is a great place for “birds of a feather to flock together”. It unites all aspects of society, both good and bad. I dont think incel is a new thing, it’s just been identified and there’s a forum somewhere for them all to compare notes.

A bit like here really, just a different lifestyle.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am really saddened that they are being indoctrinated so early. The internet is a double-edged sword.

Its terrifying and like I said it's a new term to me but to my shock my niece and nephew who were both college age knew all about it.

A bit like here really, just a different lifestyle."

It's very different from here actually and I wouldnt describe misogyny as a lifestyle!

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall

I am really saddened that they are being indoctrinated so early. The internet is a double-edged sword.

Its terrifying and like I said it's a new term to me but to my shock my niece and nephew who were both college age knew all about it.

A bit like here really, just a different lifestyle.

It's very different from here actually and I wouldnt describe misogyny as a lifestyle!"

Like I said birds of a feather…etc.

There’s as much misandry as there is mysogyny on here.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Couldn't agree more. It seems to be getting worse, some women seem to have the idea that they can say what they want to men but not the other way round. And to have an opinion similar to mine or yours just means were labelled 'tossers who can't get laid' which I'm sure isn't true.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am really saddened that they are being indoctrinated so early. The internet is a double-edged sword.

Its terrifying and like I said it's a new term to me but to my shock my niece and nephew who were both college age knew all about it.

A bit like here really, just a different lifestyle.

It's very different from here actually and I wouldnt describe misogyny as a lifestyle!

Like I said birds of a feather…etc.

There’s as much misandry as there is mysogyny on here."

So that makes it ok then?

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall

I am really saddened that they are being indoctrinated so early. The internet is a double-edged sword.

Its terrifying and like I said it's a new term to me but to my shock my niece and nephew who were both college age knew all about it.

A bit like here really, just a different lifestyle.

It's very different from here actually and I wouldnt describe misogyny as a lifestyle!

Like I said birds of a feather…etc.

There’s as much misandry as there is mysogyny on here.

So that makes it ok then?"

Far from it. It’s sickening to see. I never suggested otherwise.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am really saddened that they are being indoctrinated so early. The internet is a double-edged sword.

Its terrifying and like I said it's a new term to me but to my shock my niece and nephew who were both college age knew all about it.

A bit like here really, just a different lifestyle.

It's very different from here actually and I wouldnt describe misogyny as a lifestyle!

Like I said birds of a feather…etc.

There’s as much misandry as there is mysogyny on here.

So that makes it ok then?

Far from it. It’s sickening to see. I never suggested otherwise. "

I just find it worrying that you think it's a bit like here and just a life style because that is so not the case.

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall

I am really saddened that they are being indoctrinated so early. The internet is a double-edged sword.

Its terrifying and like I said it's a new term to me but to my shock my niece and nephew who were both college age knew all about it.

A bit like here really, just a different lifestyle.

It's very different from here actually and I wouldnt describe misogyny as a lifestyle!

Like I said birds of a feather…etc.

There’s as much misandry as there is mysogyny on here.

So that makes it ok then?

Far from it. It’s sickening to see. I never suggested otherwise.

I just find it worrying that you think it's a bit like here and just a life style because that is so not the case. "

Well we’re all swingers, so we flock together on a swingers forum. Incels are involuntary celibate people who don’t have much success with the opposite sex. They flock together on an incel forum. I hope this explains my post for you.

Now could you explain why you are so hostile?

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By *aughty_Smooth_OperatorMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

Think they should increase the age to say 25 minimum to hold a licence

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

But I think it's less about him having access to an incel group and more to do with him suffering from mental illness.

Boom someones got it

Oh dear, poor white men. Had all the power for so long. How has the modern world not been kind to white men ?

"Oh dear, poor white men. Had all the power for so long"

Point proven. Instead of looking at the problem we have created you ignore the problem and is all about getting power over others, nothing about making the world any better.

Revenge for some historical slights is not equality"

Hey Chloe, you've made some great points in this thread. If you've been given a distorted view of the world and especially about relationships, then when you first enter the real world as an adolescent / adult it can be really confusing. I know from my own mental health experiences that childhood trauma can take years if not decades to deal with. This guy was 22.

If someone wants to change society they first have to understand how things are before they try to impose their view of how things should be.

We live in the age of unintended consequences.

Regrettably, most attempts to first understand get met with accusations that you are defending the status quo or are a "poor white man". If you're not even allowed to try and figure out what's going on what hope is there?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Think they should increase the age to say 25 minimum to hold a licence "

That would screw over a large part of the rural community.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am really saddened that they are being indoctrinated so early. The internet is a double-edged sword.

Its terrifying and like I said it's a new term to me but to my shock my niece and nephew who were both college age knew all about it.

A bit like here really, just a different lifestyle.

It's very different from here actually and I wouldnt describe misogyny as a lifestyle!

Like I said birds of a feather…etc.

There’s as much misandry as there is mysogyny on here.

So that makes it ok then?

Far from it. It’s sickening to see. I never suggested otherwise.

I just find it worrying that you think it's a bit like here and just a life style because that is so not the case.

Now could you explain why you are so hostile?

I will not be told by anybody to explain anything thank you! im not being hostile It's called asking questions and having an opinion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Think they should increase the age to say 25 minimum to hold a licence

That would screw over a large part of the rural community. "

Well I guess their could be Exemptions for people that need it for work but my understanding is this guy didn't.

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall

"Think they should increase the age to say 25 minimum to hold a licence

That would screw over a large part of the rural community. "

Maybe just more strict mental health checks? I don’t know how that would be done though.

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall

I am really saddened that they are being indoctrinated so early. The internet is a double-edged sword.

Its terrifying and like I said it's a new term to me but to my shock my niece and nephew who were both college age knew all about it.

A bit like here really, just a different lifestyle.

It's very different from here actually and I wouldnt describe misogyny as a lifestyle!

Like I said birds of a feather…etc.

There’s as much misandry as there is mysogyny on here.

So that makes it ok then?

Far from it. It’s sickening to see. I never suggested otherwise.

I just find it worrying that you think it's a bit like here and just a life style because that is so not the case.

Now could you explain why you are so hostile?

I will not be told by anybody to explain anything thank you! im not being hostile It's called asking questions and having an opinion.

Well I had to explain mine to you. But never mind. Have a great evening.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am really saddened that they are being indoctrinated so early. The internet is a double-edged sword.

Its terrifying and like I said it's a new term to me but to my shock my niece and nephew who were both college age knew all about it.

A bit like here really, just a different lifestyle.

It's very different from here actually and I wouldnt describe misogyny as a lifestyle!

Like I said birds of a feather…etc.

There’s as much misandry as there is mysogyny on here.

So that makes it ok then?

Far from it. It’s sickening to see. I never suggested otherwise.

I just find it worrying that you think it's a bit like here and just a life style because that is so not the case.

Now could you explain why you are so hostile?

I will not be told by anybody to explain anything thank you! im not being hostile It's called asking questions and having an opinion.

Well I had to explain mine to you. But never mind. Have a great evening."

You didn't have to do anything! I asked a question and you chose to reply I hope that helps.

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall

I am really saddened that they are being indoctrinated so early. The internet is a double-edged sword.

Its terrifying and like I said it's a new term to me but to my shock my niece and nephew who were both college age knew all about it.

A bit like here really, just a different lifestyle.

It's very different from here actually and I wouldnt describe misogyny as a lifestyle!

Like I said birds of a feather…etc.

There’s as much misandry as there is mysogyny on here.

So that makes it ok then?

Far from it. It’s sickening to see. I never suggested otherwise.

I just find it worrying that you think it's a bit like here and just a life style because that is so not the case.

Now could you explain why you are so hostile?

I will not be told by anybody to explain anything thank you! im not being hostile It's called asking questions and having an opinion.

Well I had to explain mine to you. But never mind. Have a great evening.

You didn't have to do anything! I asked a question and you chose to reply I hope that helps.

Still being hostile I see. Have a great evening.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am really saddened that they are being indoctrinated so early. The internet is a double-edged sword.

Its terrifying and like I said it's a new term to me but to my shock my niece and nephew who were both college age knew all about it.

A bit like here really, just a different lifestyle.

It's very different from here actually and I wouldnt describe misogyny as a lifestyle!

Like I said birds of a feather…etc.

There’s as much misandry as there is mysogyny on here.

So that makes it ok then?

Far from it. It’s sickening to see. I never suggested otherwise.

I just find it worrying that you think it's a bit like here and just a life style because that is so not the case.

Now could you explain why you are so hostile?

I will not be told by anybody to explain anything thank you! im not being hostile It's called asking questions and having an opinion.

Well I had to explain mine to you. But never mind. Have a great evening.

You didn't have to do anything! I asked a question and you chose to reply I hope that helps.

Still being hostile I see. Have a great evening."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Think they should increase the age to say 25 minimum to hold a licence

That would screw over a large part of the rural community.

Maybe just more strict mental health checks? I don’t know how that would be done though."

Yeah i very much agree. He should never been allowed to have the shotgun back after the alledged assault if it was true. Bit like red flag laws and certain crimes committed in the US means you are no longer allowed that right. But i dont agree he should of never been able to have one in the first place

I personaly belive if somone wants a firearm for what ever legitimate reason (including defence of your home) we should have the freedom to have that but have to deal with the consquences if we fuck up. Same with driving a vehicle

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Think they should increase the age to say 25 minimum to hold a licence

That would screw over a large part of the rural community.

Maybe just more strict mental health checks? I don’t know how that would be done though.

I think that's the difficulty that it was an alleged assault rather than anything was proved or he was charged. It's a really difficult one to remove somebody's licence just because of an accusation but I fully agree about mental health checks and physical health that could affect somebody's handling of a gun should be done regularly.

I dont agree with your last statement and the reason being, we have had four mass shootings in this country in my life time and Im 38. In the States they have 4 in a couple of weeks so I just think we should keep things the way they are and maybe tighten up even further.

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By *imbo59seMan
over a year ago

North Norfolk area

"Think they should increase the age to say 25 minimum to hold a licence

That would screw over a large part of the rural community.

Maybe just more strict mental health checks? I don’t know how that would be done though."

You now have to have a medical report from your doctor to obtain/renew a Firearms/Shotgun Certificate. The police obtain it direct from your doctor, so can't be falsified.

There is no minimum age to get a Shotgun Certificate (I believe it is 15 for a Firearms Certificate). My son had his Shotgun Certificate at 11.

Crazily, you can't be unsupervised until 18 (I think it's 18), and anyone supervising has to be over 21....but doesn't have to have a Certificate themselves!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The real problem is being able to get guns.

Why does anyone need to keep one?

I doubt he ever shot a pheasant and if he did, why not just hire on the day with a handful of rounds?

It's not the USA here, gun control is very tight here, and rightly so, and the system works. But no system is fool proof. There are many legitimate use for civilian gun ownership. The core of the problem is mental health. The systematic cuts to mental health services since 2010 are probably more a risk to society.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Think they should increase the age to say 25 minimum to hold a licence

That would screw over a large part of the rural community.

Maybe just more strict mental health checks? I don’t know how that would be done though.

The last part wasnt for you to agree with or not. Its just my personnal opinion as self defence of a home is not a valid reason to own firearm in UK law except for Northern Ireland. Just my personal opinion as somone who has an interest in firearms and how they work and the skill that is shooting. Im well aware its probably not an opinion that most of the country would agree with me on

The states problem is more likely a mental health issue aswell in reality, large amounts of poverty ect. Not the amount or type of guns available. Switzerland has a stunningly high rate of gun ownership but hasnt had a mass shooting in like 15 years

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By *eavenscentitCouple
over a year ago

barnstaple

But I think it's less about him having access to an incel group and more to do with him suffering from mental illness.

Boom someones got it

Oh dear, poor white men. Had all the power for so long. How has the modern world not been kind to white men ?

"Oh dear, poor white men. Had all the power for so long"

Point proven. Instead of looking at the problem we have created you ignore the problem and is all about getting power over others, nothing about making the world any better.

Revenge for some historical slights is not equality"

Historical slights ?? Laughable. I don't want power over others, I want to live in a world better than our current one. Thanks though

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Historical slights ?? Laughable. I don't want power over others, I want to live in a world better than our current one. Thanks though"

Define better.

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By *liceinWonderland38Woman
over a year ago

Coventry

There are huge online communities on other social media platforms who allow/ promote the group communication between people who define themselves as Incels.

The language that is used to discuss women and other men is awful, and they wind each other up even further, adding fire to the flames.

It really is a growing terrorist group, IMO, and I hope that authorities/ organisations start to see it this way, and monitor online groups and chats as they do with other concerning groups.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"There are huge online communities on other social media platforms who allow/ promote the group communication between people who define themselves as Incels.

The language that is used to discuss women and other men is awful, and they wind each other up even further, adding fire to the flames.

It really is a growing terrorist group, IMO, and I hope that authorities/ organisations start to see it this way, and monitor online groups and chats as they do with other concerning groups."

Yes, it's a terrorist group preying on vulnerable and disaffected young people.

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By *liceinWonderland38Woman
over a year ago

Coventry

"There are huge online communities on other social media platforms who allow/ promote the group communication between people who define themselves as Incels.

The language that is used to discuss women and other men is awful, and they wind each other up even further, adding fire to the flames.

It really is a growing terrorist group, IMO, and I hope that authorities/ organisations start to see it this way, and monitor online groups and chats as they do with other concerning groups.

Yes, it's a terrorist group preying on vulnerable and disaffected young people."

I completely agree, they do prey on the vulnerable and disaffected, it’s tragic

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

But I think it's less about him having access to an incel group and more to do with him suffering from mental illness.

Boom someones got it

Oh dear, poor white men. Had all the power for so long. How has the modern world not been kind to white men ?

"Oh dear, poor white men. Had all the power for so long"

Point proven. Instead of looking at the problem we have created you ignore the problem and is all about getting power over others, nothing about making the world any better.

Revenge for some historical slights is not equality

Historical slights ?? Laughable. I don't want power over others, I want to live in a world better than our current one. Thanks though"

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By *atnip make me purrWoman
over a year ago

Reading

Although it's so unlikely that any of these who go on murderous sprees, these men will probably never be able to have fulfilling and loving relationships in their lifetimes. This is not good for society and we need to try to resolve this issue. How though i have no idea.

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall

"There are huge online communities on other social media platforms who allow/ promote the group communication between people who define themselves as Incels.

The language that is used to discuss women and other men is awful, and they wind each other up even further, adding fire to the flames.

It really is a growing terrorist group, IMO, and I hope that authorities/ organisations start to see it this way, and monitor online groups and chats as they do with other concerning groups.

Yes, it's a terrorist group preying on vulnerable and disaffected young people."

What’s their objective?

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By *liceinWonderland38Woman
over a year ago

Coventry

"There are huge online communities on other social media platforms who allow/ promote the group communication between people who define themselves as Incels.

The language that is used to discuss women and other men is awful, and they wind each other up even further, adding fire to the flames.

It really is a growing terrorist group, IMO, and I hope that authorities/ organisations start to see it this way, and monitor online groups and chats as they do with other concerning groups.

Yes, it's a terrorist group preying on vulnerable and disaffected young people.

What’s their objective?"

They are a group filled with hatred of women, of men who are gold looking and successful with women and of society for their lack of opportunity with women. Their objective is about male supremacy and female hatred

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

The danger of incels doesn't just lie in the possibility that a tiny minority might become mass murderers. The low level manipulation and deep dislike of women is insidious, threatening and very frightening.

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall

"The danger of incels doesn't just lie in the possibility that a tiny minority might become mass murderers. The low level manipulation and deep dislike of women is insidious, threatening and very frightening."

All this based on not being successful with women? Or is there more?

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By *liceinWonderland38Woman
over a year ago

Coventry

If anyone wants to know the kind of thing that uncles believe, I follow a really good page on the bird social media app, Expel Incels. Go take a look, they post a lot of things they find online that Incels have posted

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

All this based on not being successful with women? Or is there more?"

Much more. I don't know a lot about it myself but if our son ever became involved I'd be trying everything to change his way of thinking

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall

All this based on not being successful with women? Or is there more?

Much more. I don't know a lot about it myself but if our son ever became involved I'd be trying everything to change his way of thinking"

Having a young son and daughter myself, it’s definitely at one thing to watch for.

The problem I see is that ostracised members of society will mix with like minded people. The internet makes it easier to find like minded souls. I was berated by people above for suggesting this. Some people a very quick to be divisive rather than try to help people.

If there is a whole section of society that hates women, surely we should be asking why? Not driving them further away.

I know that I’ll get flack for this suggestion, but if people really want to solve a problem, the first thing you need to do is understand the problem. Not write people of as “hopeless tossers” and criticising their looks as described above in earlier posts.

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By *liceinWonderland38Woman
over a year ago

Coventry

All this based on not being successful with women? Or is there more?

Much more. I don't know a lot about it myself but if our son ever became involved I'd be trying everything to change his way of thinking

Having a young son and daughter myself, it’s definitely at one thing to watch for.

If there is a whole section of society that hates women, surely we should be asking why? Not driving them further away.

I have to say I completely agree. What has happened in society to cause this? It needs to be looked at on a macro level to solve this. This isn’t one person with sociopathic views, this is a whole division of society filled with hatred for women

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

All this based on not being successful with women? Or is there more?

Much more. I don't know a lot about it myself but if our son ever became involved I'd be trying everything to change his way of thinking

Having a young son and daughter myself, it’s definitely at one thing to watch for.

If there is a whole section of society that hates women, surely we should be asking why? Not driving them further away.

I agree. I think the issues are complex but partially stem from the continuing empowerment of women and the increased depiction of (faux) success in all types of media. Also until fairly recently almost everyone "knew their place" socially and economically. I'm by no means intelligent or well read enough to know all the set a though.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

* all the details though

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

All this based on not being successful with women? Or is there more?"

From what I've read and what I've heard, it's (mainly) men who have are bottom of the pack in life and feel worthless and forgotten.

For the last few years we have been using broad strokes on nuanced subjects. Male privalage, white privalage and the patriarchy have been thrown around like confetti, but those at the bottom don't feel their maleness helps, and the patriarchy actually forces them downwards further.

They see support for others (gender pay gaps, BLM etc) and feel discarded by society. Others will be given opportunities at their cost. The world is actively against them because the top 10pc of the world looks like them on the outside.

The political fighting we see day day (left v right, leave versus remain, etc) is symbolic of deeper divisions.

(Note: not all incels git into this box. Buy imo its the majority)

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"There are huge online communities on other social media platforms who allow/ promote the group communication between people who define themselves as Incels.

The language that is used to discuss women and other men is awful, and they wind each other up even further, adding fire to the flames.

It really is a growing terrorist group, IMO, and I hope that authorities/ organisations start to see it this way, and monitor online groups and chats as they do with other concerning groups."

^^^This. I agree.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"There are huge online communities on other social media platforms who allow/ promote the group communication between people who define themselves as Incels.

The language that is used to discuss women and other men is awful, and they wind each other up even further, adding fire to the flames.

It really is a growing terrorist group, IMO, and I hope that authorities/ organisations start to see it this way, and monitor online groups and chats as they do with other concerning groups.

^^^This. I agree."

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By *alandNitaCouple
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

To be fair, most of the people involved are vulnerable and easy targets for radicalisation. The whole movement is a classic demonstration of the emotional damage that being cruel to people can cause.

Cal

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By *iddle ManMan
over a year ago

Walsall

I have to say, I'd never heard the term used before this happened and it was in the news.

There isn't much the police can do to stop people set on vengeance like this but maybe not everyone should be cast in the same mold as this disturbed person.

On this occasion though it looks like he could have and probably should have had his firearms licence removed and kept back way before the incident. A lesson to be learned maybe, at least something good should come from this terrible terrible tradegy.

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall

"There are huge online communities on other social media platforms who allow/ promote the group communication between people who define themselves as Incels.

The language that is used to discuss women and other men is awful, and they wind each other up even further, adding fire to the flames.

It really is a growing terrorist group, IMO, and I hope that authorities/ organisations start to see it this way, and monitor online groups and chats as they do with other concerning groups.

^^^This. I agree.

So what’s the solution? Further division isn’t the answer is it? Or are people happy to just crush them into some kind of submission?

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"There are huge online communities on other social media platforms who allow/ promote the group communication between people who define themselves as Incels.

The language that is used to discuss women and other men is awful, and they wind each other up even further, adding fire to the flames.

It really is a growing terrorist group, IMO, and I hope that authorities/ organisations start to see it this way, and monitor online groups and chats as they do with other concerning groups.

^^^This. I agree.

So what’s the solution? Further division isn’t the answer is it? Or are people happy to just crush them into some kind of submission?"

Through educating young people about normal relationships, modelling appropriate behaviour to them etc. And through authorities removing the spaces where indoctrination can happen, the same with any nefarious organisation. We have PREVENT for deradicalisation - this type of radicalisation needs to be included as a threat and treated the same.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There are huge online communities on other social media platforms who allow/ promote the group communication between people who define themselves as Incels.

The language that is used to discuss women and other men is awful, and they wind each other up even further, adding fire to the flames.

It really is a growing terrorist group, IMO, and I hope that authorities/ organisations start to see it this way, and monitor online groups and chats as they do with other concerning groups.

^^^This. I agree.

So what’s the solution? Further division isn’t the answer is it? Or are people happy to just crush them into some kind of submission?"

It's tricky.

Monitoring for the worst kind/ringleaders is important. And to understand the culture. Middle class folk in helatjy relationships won't see the red flags.

But we need to be more open to dialogue and listen to their issues. And the same as we do on sexism, racism, etc call out bad behaviour. There are plenty of micro aggressions here, and (in generak) often any dialogue is shot down

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"There are huge online communities on other social media platforms who allow/ promote the group communication between people who define themselves as Incels.

The language that is used to discuss women and other men is awful, and they wind each other up even further, adding fire to the flames.

It really is a growing terrorist group, IMO, and I hope that authorities/ organisations start to see it this way, and monitor online groups and chats as they do with other concerning groups.

^^^This. I agree.

So what’s the solution? Further division isn’t the answer is it? Or are people happy to just crush them into some kind of submission?"

No war ever ended without people sitting round a table and coming to some sort of resolution. Unfortunately things being what they are people usually have to be brought to the table with threats and violence on both sides.

Crushing someone into submission just makes them rise up with hatred

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall

"There are huge online communities on other social media platforms who allow/ promote the group communication between people who define themselves as Incels.

The language that is used to discuss women and other men is awful, and they wind each other up even further, adding fire to the flames.

It really is a growing terrorist group, IMO, and I hope that authorities/ organisations start to see it this way, and monitor online groups and chats as they do with other concerning groups.

^^^This. I agree.

So what’s the solution? Further division isn’t the answer is it? Or are people happy to just crush them into some kind of submission?

Crushing someone into submission just makes them rise up with hatred"

Exactly my point.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There are huge online communities on other social media platforms who allow/ promote the group communication between people who define themselves as Incels.

The language that is used to discuss women and other men is awful, and they wind each other up even further, adding fire to the flames.

It really is a growing terrorist group, IMO, and I hope that authorities/ organisations start to see it this way, and monitor online groups and chats as they do with other concerning groups.

^^^This. I agree.

So what’s the solution? Further division isn’t the answer is it? Or are people happy to just crush them into some kind of submission?

It's tricky.

Monitoring for the worst kind/ringleaders is important. And to understand the culture. Middle class folk in helatjy relationships won't see the red flags.

Thing is its hard to listen and have a dialogue with someone who has hateful views.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"There are huge online communities on other social media platforms who allow/ promote the group communication between people who define themselves as Incels.

The language that is used to discuss women and other men is awful, and they wind each other up even further, adding fire to the flames.

It really is a growing terrorist group, IMO, and I hope that authorities/ organisations start to see it this way, and monitor online groups and chats as they do with other concerning groups.

^^^This. I agree.

So what’s the solution? Further division isn’t the answer is it? Or are people happy to just crush them into some kind of submission?

Crushing someone into submission just makes them rise up with hatred

Exactly my point. "

I'm with you on that. There's no way I'm willing to engage with those guys though.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There are huge online communities on other social media platforms who allow/ promote the group communication between people who define themselves as Incels.

The language that is used to discuss women and other men is awful, and they wind each other up even further, adding fire to the flames.

It really is a growing terrorist group, IMO, and I hope that authorities/ organisations start to see it this way, and monitor online groups and chats as they do with other concerning groups.

^^^This. I agree.

So what’s the solution? Further division isn’t the answer is it? Or are people happy to just crush them into some kind of submission?

Crushing someone into submission just makes them rise up with hatred

Exactly my point.

I'm with you on that. There's no way I'm willing to engage with those guys though."

Same.

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By *ungBlackTopMan
over a year ago

salford

How ironic that a site like this discusses issues facing incels. Hmmm why would I be at all surprised?!

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"There are huge online communities on other social media platforms who allow/ promote the group communication between people who define themselves as Incels.

The language that is used to discuss women and other men is awful, and they wind each other up even further, adding fire to the flames.

It really is a growing terrorist group, IMO, and I hope that authorities/ organisations start to see it this way, and monitor online groups and chats as they do with other concerning groups.

^^^This. I agree.

So what’s the solution? Further division isn’t the answer is it? Or are people happy to just crush them into some kind of submission?

It's tricky.

Monitoring for the worst kind/ringleaders is important. And to understand the culture. Middle class folk in helatjy relationships won't see the red flags.

Thing is its hard to listen and have a dialogue with someone who has hateful views.

That's how the PREVENT strategy works - engaging people who are radicalised in conversation to nudge them away from the radical behaviour etc. I don't see the incel thing as any different to things like right wing extremism, Islamic extremism etc.

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall

"There are huge online communities on other social media platforms who allow/ promote the group communication between people who define themselves as Incels.

The language that is used to discuss women and other men is awful, and they wind each other up even further, adding fire to the flames.

It really is a growing terrorist group, IMO, and I hope that authorities/ organisations start to see it this way, and monitor online groups and chats as they do with other concerning groups.

^^^This. I agree.

So what’s the solution? Further division isn’t the answer is it? Or are people happy to just crush them into some kind of submission?

Crushing someone into submission just makes them rise up with hatred

Exactly my point.

I'm with you on that. There's no way I'm willing to engage with those guys though."

It’s more the young vulnerable ones I worry for. They have their whole life ahead of them, but once drawn into this they probably struggle to find a way out.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The biggest problem with incel groups and and a lot of issues in society actually are people Blame others for the situation they find themselves in rather than trying to find solutions.

Of course we should all help but that only works if people want to listen and accept there is something they may need to change.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There are huge online communities on other social media platforms who allow/ promote the group communication between people who define themselves as Incels.

The language that is used to discuss women and other men is awful, and they wind each other up even further, adding fire to the flames.

It really is a growing terrorist group, IMO, and I hope that authorities/ organisations start to see it this way, and monitor online groups and chats as they do with other concerning groups.

^^^This. I agree.

So what’s the solution? Further division isn’t the answer is it? Or are people happy to just crush them into some kind of submission?

It's tricky.

Monitoring for the worst kind/ringleaders is important. And to understand the culture. Middle class folk in helatjy relationships won't see the red flags.

Thing is its hard to listen and have a dialogue with someone who has hateful views.

Yes of course by trained professionals not just by someone on an Internet forum.

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall

"There are huge online communities on other social media platforms who allow/ promote the group communication between people who define themselves as Incels.

The language that is used to discuss women and other men is awful, and they wind each other up even further, adding fire to the flames.

It really is a growing terrorist group, IMO, and I hope that authorities/ organisations start to see it this way, and monitor online groups and chats as they do with other concerning groups.

^^^This. I agree.

So what’s the solution? Further division isn’t the answer is it? Or are people happy to just crush them into some kind of submission?

It's tricky.

Monitoring for the worst kind/ringleaders is important. And to understand the culture. Middle class folk in helatjy relationships won't see the red flags.

Thing is its hard to listen and have a dialogue with someone who has hateful views.

It sounds like the best option.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"There are huge online communities on other social media platforms who allow/ promote the group communication between people who define themselves as Incels.

The language that is used to discuss women and other men is awful, and they wind each other up even further, adding fire to the flames.

It really is a growing terrorist group, IMO, and I hope that authorities/ organisations start to see it this way, and monitor online groups and chats as they do with other concerning groups.

^^^This. I agree.

So what’s the solution? Further division isn’t the answer is it? Or are people happy to just crush them into some kind of submission?

Crushing someone into submission just makes them rise up with hatred

Exactly my point.

I'm with you on that. There's no way I'm willing to engage with those guys though.

It’s more the young vulnerable ones I worry for. They have their whole life ahead of them, but once drawn into this they probably struggle to find a way out."

It's the same with any radicalised person.

We were taught to watch for signs of religious radicalisation hopefully they'll include this now

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By *heekyFlirtyCoupleCouple
over a year ago

Stockport

[Removed by poster at 15/08/21 14:59:22]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Its no wonder we have a fucked up world where you decide what kids are attractive or strong....then discuss them in a public swinging forum....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The majority of people who hold a valid licence for guns are genuine people either farmers or work as pest control and believe you me if one of us was stood close by when that utter coward of a so called man was pulling his trigger then lives would have been saved..

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"There are huge online communities on other social media platforms who allow/ promote the group communication between people who define themselves as Incels.

The language that is used to discuss women and other men is awful, and they wind each other up even further, adding fire to the flames.

It really is a growing terrorist group, IMO, and I hope that authorities/ organisations start to see it this way, and monitor online groups and chats as they do with other concerning groups.

^^^This. I agree.

So what’s the solution? Further division isn’t the answer is it? Or are people happy to just crush them into some kind of submission?

It's tricky.

Monitoring for the worst kind/ringleaders is important. And to understand the culture. Middle class folk in helatjy relationships won't see the red flags.

Thing is its hard to listen and have a dialogue with someone who has hateful views.

Yes of course by trained professionals not just by someone on an Internet forum. "

Absolutely

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By *eavenscentitCouple
over a year ago

barnstaple

"Incels are probably no more or less dangerous than other extremist groups/organisations.

Agreed. I think this story has just brought the groups into the light, I'm not sure many people were even aware of them before."

Women remain more at risk from partners and ex partners

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"Incels are probably no more or less dangerous than other extremist groups/organisations.

Agreed. I think this story has just brought the groups into the light, I'm not sure many people were even aware of them before.

Women remain more at risk from partners and ex partners"

There's probably a cross over in terms of attitude to women

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Incels are probably no more or less dangerous than other extremist groups/organisations.

Agreed. I think this story has just brought the groups into the light, I'm not sure many people were even aware of them before.

Women remain more at risk from partners and ex partners"

Correct but you don't ignore a serious issue simply because other serious issues exist.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Incels are probably no more or less dangerous than other extremist groups/organisations.

Agreed. I think this story has just brought the groups into the light, I'm not sure many people were even aware of them before.

Women remain more at risk from partners and ex partners

There's probably a cross over in terms of attitude to women"

Most women are more or less aware of all of these things.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"Incels are probably no more or less dangerous than other extremist groups/organisations.

Agreed. I think this story has just brought the groups into the light, I'm not sure many people were even aware of them before.

Women remain more at risk from partners and ex partners

There's probably a cross over in terms of attitude to women

Most women are more or less aware of all of these things."

Yes there's just an organised group now where there wasn't before

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Incels are probably no more or less dangerous than other extremist groups/organisations.

Agreed. I think this story has just brought the groups into the light, I'm not sure many people were even aware of them before.

Women remain more at risk from partners and ex partners

There's probably a cross over in terms of attitude to women

Most women are more or less aware of all of these things.

Yes there's just an organised group now where there wasn't before"

Are they organised? Really? Or just a set of forums on 4chan? Living in their mum's basement with no social skills and poor hygiene. That's the impression I get.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"Incels are probably no more or less dangerous than other extremist groups/organisations.

Agreed. I think this story has just brought the groups into the light, I'm not sure many people were even aware of them before.

Women remain more at risk from partners and ex partners

There's probably a cross over in terms of attitude to women

Most women are more or less aware of all of these things.

Yes there's just an organised group now where there wasn't before

Are they organised? Really? Or just a set of forums on 4chan? Living in their mum's basement with no social skills and poor hygiene. That's the impression I get. "

I think trivialising groups like this is dangerous.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Incels are probably no more or less dangerous than other extremist groups/organisations.

Agreed. I think this story has just brought the groups into the light, I'm not sure many people were even aware of them before.

Women remain more at risk from partners and ex partners

There's probably a cross over in terms of attitude to women

Most women are more or less aware of all of these things.

Yes there's just an organised group now where there wasn't before

Are they organised? Really? Or just a set of forums on 4chan? Living in their mum's basement with no social skills and poor hygiene. That's the impression I get. "

I think they are organised. Even if individually they might be as you say.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"Incels are probably no more or less dangerous than other extremist groups/organisations.

Agreed. I think this story has just brought the groups into the light, I'm not sure many people were even aware of them before.

Women remain more at risk from partners and ex partners

There's probably a cross over in terms of attitude to women

Most women are more or less aware of all of these things.

Yes there's just an organised group now where there wasn't before

Are they organised? Really? Or just a set of forums on 4chan? Living in their mum's basement with no social skills and poor hygiene. That's the impression I get.

I think they are organised. Even if individually they might be as you say."

I suspect that there will also be some new recruits now.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As a door man in a very busy currently city centre it's shocking how many groups of men wandering around thinking it's ok to get into where I work or where the company I work for premises .

No thought for the other people inside..

Last week I got asked by a guy out with his Mrs could I sort out a 41 man rugby club doo ??

You fucking what ???

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As a door man in a very busy currently city centre it's shocking how many groups of men wandering around thinking it's ok to get into where I work or where the company I work for premises .

No thought for the other people inside..

Last week I got asked by a guy out with his Mrs could I sort out a 41 man rugby club doo ??

You fucking what ???"

Yeah not all guys cause problems but the industry joke is let them all in people think it's a sausage fest so please if you ever go out with loads of guys don't be surprised if you get turned away as it's not worth the aggro if one goes rogue then have his mates back him up

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Incels are probably no more or less dangerous than other extremist groups/organisations.

Agreed. I think this story has just brought the groups into the light, I'm not sure many people were even aware of them before.

Women remain more at risk from partners and ex partners

There's probably a cross over in terms of attitude to women

Most women are more or less aware of all of these things.

Yes there's just an organised group now where there wasn't before

Are they organised? Really? Or just a set of forums on 4chan? Living in their mum's basement with no social skills and poor hygiene. That's the impression I get.

I think they are organised. Even if individually they might be as you say.

I suspect that there will also be some new recruits now. "

Alas. Publicity can sanitise like sunlight, but also do the opposite.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"Incels are probably no more or less dangerous than other extremist groups/organisations.

Agreed. I think this story has just brought the groups into the light, I'm not sure many people were even aware of them before.

Women remain more at risk from partners and ex partners

There's probably a cross over in terms of attitude to women

Most women are more or less aware of all of these things.

Yes there's just an organised group now where there wasn't before

Are they organised? Really? Or just a set of forums on 4chan? Living in their mum's basement with no social skills and poor hygiene. That's the impression I get.

I think they are organised. Even if individually they might be as you say.

I suspect that there will also be some new recruits now.

Alas. Publicity can sanitise like sunlight, but also do the opposite."

Yep. It's a double edged sword

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

I think the crucial thing is looking at what underlies this, the cultural beliefs. Who is drawn into this and who isn't? Why?

Those who feel drawn to this behaviour - what do they have within their beliefs or education that encourages this? What can they learn from others?

How can we reintegrate them back into civilised, acceptable ways of managing their problems?

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