FabSwingers.com forum: Ch ch ch changes

By *ea monkey OP Man
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)

Racism, bigotry, misogyny, misandry…

These are all discussed and debated (to greater or lesser success) on here, to what avail though?

Does the discussion and opinion change anything other than informing others of your dislike of others thoughts?

Does the debate change minds? Does it ever inform anyone?

Are those that engage doing anything substantial or of any real help, or are we just yelling into the void?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *etcplCouple
over a year ago

Gapping Fanny

They are more interesting to me than the rate my ass/cock/tits posts, but in the grand scheme of things they won’t change anything. But then neither do the debates we have in other social situations, but we still enjoy them.

For me it allows you to gauge other people, which may or may not affect your desire to talk, meet or block them.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

I don't know about on here but I know many people in my life away from fab who have been very dismissive of a lot of anti-racism protests as they thought they were unnecessary. They've massively changed their tune over the past couple of days and I think it's been a wake up call for many.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ea monkey OP Man
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)

"I don't know about on here but I know many people in my life away from fab who have been very dismissive of a lot of anti-racism protests as they thought they were unnecessary. They've massively changed their tune over the past couple of days and I think it's been a wake up call for many. "

I agree.

I think that a lot of people questioned the need for a lot of things recently but then have changed their minds.

Perhaps it’s a case in point that perhaps people need to listen to each other and their experiences more?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's good to talk.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

I see many glimpses of hope in the forum posts.

Granted some people struggle to not get heated in a debate and there is some evidence that sometimes responses are not read in full before people reply to a post and that does not help.

Today alone I have seen people clarifying, apologising and even conceding that other people are not "all wrong".

If it can be done here, it can be done elsewhere. It is kind of baby steps towards a better world for the next generation and no, not everybody will see it that way.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *annaBeStrongMan
over a year ago

wokingham

90% of the posts on here are pure dribble

It’s nice to have some serious thread with real issues.

And I love to not hold back and give my honest opinions.

And even better if someone in the thread can tackle them head on and get me to change my mind. There’s a few that do it really well. And more than a few that don’t.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ea monkey OP Man
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)

"They are more interesting to me than the rate my ass/cock/tits posts, but in the grand scheme of things they won’t change anything. But then neither do the debates we have in other social situations, but we still enjoy them.

For me it allows you to gauge other people, which may or may not affect your desire to talk, meet or block them.

I guess that they can help in that manner but I’m wondering if the specific discussions are of relevance or actual effect change in people or give rise to broader action beyond brief words on a screen?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *tephTV67TV/TS
over a year ago

Cheshire

"Racism, bigotry, misogyny, misandry…

These are all discussed and debated (to greater or lesser success) on here, to what avail though?

Does the discussion and opinion change anything other than informing others of your dislike of others thoughts?

Does the debate change minds? Does it ever inform anyone?

Are those that engage doing anything substantial or of any real help, or are we just yelling into the void? "

It tells me who to block and who I may share the same views with. But I doubt I’ve ever written anything on these forums that’s changed a bigots mind, so I console myself knowing that those I agree with tend to speak the most sense.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

For me it allows you to gauge other people, which may or may not affect your desire to talk, meet or block them.

Any discussion around a divisive topic can be helpful in the resolution; the key word "can".

IF discussions are seen as a way of getting rid of your own aggression, of attacking somebody you don't like then they are not helpful.

If they are used to exchange views, no matter how different or bizarre, then talking has to be a good thing as grass roots for change.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ea monkey OP Man
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)

"90% of the posts on here are pure dribble

It’s nice to have some serious thread with real issues.

And I love to not hold back and give my honest opinions.

And even better if someone in the thread can tackle them head on and get me to change my mind. There’s a few that do it really well. And more than a few that don’t. "

I do agree with your first few lines, although dribble is a bit strong!

I think it’s a good thing that you’ve had your mind changed on occasion, that’s pretty much what I think the point is of some threads

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *tephTV67TV/TS
over a year ago

Cheshire

"90% of the posts on here are pure dribble

It’s nice to have some serious thread with real issues.

And I love to not hold back and give my honest opinions.

And even better if someone in the thread can tackle them head on and get me to change my mind. There’s a few that do it really well. And more than a few that don’t. "

I remember your discussion about Trans people and I thought you came across really well. You got attacked unfairly later on, but the lady you were initially discussing the subject with and yourself were obviously learning from each other.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

"90% of the posts on here are pure dribble

It’s nice to have some serious thread with real issues.

And I love to not hold back and give my honest opinions.

And even better if someone in the thread can tackle them head on and get me to change my mind. There’s a few that do it really well. And more than a few that don’t. "

I agree that 90% of threads do not interest me.

I also agree with not holding back having an opinion. Interestingly with people you know AND TRUST outside the fab world, i.e. your friends you can have some really robust discussions and the friendship still stands and people occasionally change their mind.

More difficult in here as we only have the typed word... not the delivery, the intention, the body language...= the trust.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ea monkey OP Man
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)

For me it allows you to gauge other people, which may or may not affect your desire to talk, meet or block them.

Any discussion around a divisive topic can be helpful in the resolution; the key word "can".

IF discussions are seen as a way of getting rid of your own aggression, of attacking somebody you don't like then they are not helpful.

If they are used to exchange views, no matter how different or bizarre, then talking has to be a good thing as grass roots for change."

I agree.

It’s the motive behind the post that is always the key.

I do think that recently there have been more people just wanting to post divisive things and shout into the void than actually exchanging views or discuss, which can derail or corrupt genuine discourse

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *annaBeStrongMan
over a year ago

wokingham

"90% of the posts on here are pure dribble

It’s nice to have some serious thread with real issues.

And I love to not hold back and give my honest opinions.

And even better if someone in the thread can tackle them head on and get me to change my mind. There’s a few that do it really well. And more than a few that don’t.

Well thankyou, I can come across like a cunt at times because if I feel you aren’t making a strong argument I’ve very blunt and honest about telling you.

But at the same time if you actually have a point and back it up, I’ll happily admit I’m an idiot and that I’ve got egg on my face. I’ve absolutely no shame about publicly admitting I’m wrong because it just means I’ve learned something.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *tephTV67TV/TS
over a year ago

Cheshire

"90% of the posts on here are pure dribble

It’s nice to have some serious thread with real issues.

And I love to not hold back and give my honest opinions.

And even better if someone in the thread can tackle them head on and get me to change my mind. There’s a few that do it really well. And more than a few that don’t.

Well thankyou, I can come across like a cunt at times because if I feel you aren’t making a strong argument I’ve very blunt and honest about telling you.

No, someone else came across as a cunt

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ea monkey OP Man
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)

Bumping

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Surely everything we read, see, hear has an impact, even if it's only a drip at a time

I like seeing people challenged on their views, and then them taking a pause /mulling it over. I've seen a few exchanges with promising seeds of change

We all start somewhere on our journey

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ornucopiaMan
over a year ago

Bexley

"90% of the posts on here are pure dribble

It’s nice to have some serious thread with real issues.

And I love to not hold back and give my honest opinions.

And even better if someone in the thread can tackle them head on and get me to change my mind. There’s a few that do it really well. And more than a few that don’t.

...

I do agree with your first few lines, although dribble is a bit strong!

I suspect that he probably meant 'drivel' but as we are always being told, language evolves!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ornucopiaMan
over a year ago

Bexley

What has happened over the last couple of days?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ea monkey OP Man
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)

What has happened over the last couple of days?"

I took that as meaning that people who questioned the need for anti racism protests and taking the knee, have seen that there is a problem that needs addressing

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I come from a challenge the issue not the person stance. Rarely are my posts from an emotive place, in fact only 2 have wound me up and I have clearly stated this.

If something I have said enables just one person to pause and mull things over a little then great. If not nevermind.

I'll stand corrected,I'll stand in my beleifs, I will always stand.

Change starts with questioning challenging the status quo. People will seek an echo chamber and confirmation bias posts. This says more about them and shows me who they really are.

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Martin Niemoller

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

"I come from a challenge the issue not the person stance. Rarely are my posts from an emotive place, in fact only 2 have wound me up and I have clearly stated this.

If something I have said enables just one person to pause and mull things over a little then great. If not nevermind.

I'll stand corrected,I'll stand in my beleifs, I will always stand.

Change starts with questioning challenging the status quo. People will seek an echo chamber and confirmation bias posts. This says more about them and shows me who they really are.

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Martin Niemoller"

This well-known quote sums it up in a way that should just remind us all of our collective responsibility.

Collective responsibility starts, consists of, cannot be without.... individual responsibility.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's good to talk."

Agree

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *inkyeroticaCouple
over a year ago

Ampthill

Racism, bigotry misogyny etc... they all have one thing in common, and that is they are born out of ignorance. The way to change that is through education, which can easily begin with a debate, here or elsewhere.

Pointless? If a debate gets just one person to change their view, to understand better, then surely it's worthwhile? And as has been said, it's a great way of adding to the block list!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ichael500Man
over a year ago

Virginia Water

Strange that isn't it. Noticed it too why now all of a sudden.

Will be a flash in a pan subject before we go back to the norm

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

Strange that isn't it. Noticed it too why now all of a sudden.

Will be a flash in a pan subject before we go back to the norm"

Sometimes people will need a wake-up call. Yes, some may go back to old habits which are known to die hard.

But if with events like football we can change the minds of those and influence them towards a more tolerant, fairer society... and if it is only a handful each time... it is still change in a positive way.

How do you eat an elephant? Just one bite at a time. (I love elephants and would dream eating one btw )

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

of my many faults, I am a perpetual 'fence sitter' and will often see both sides, so quite often during a debate I get swung back and forth by both arguments.

I put that down to the fact I haven't yet got enough information, so yes for me, debate is essential (even if I do still end up on the fence)

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

This well-known quote sums it up in a way that should just remind us all of our collective responsibility.

Collective responsibility starts, consists of, cannot be without.... individual responsibility."

Just to clarify (as somebody asked me) :

I am saying that we all have an individual responsibility to call out injustice and racism.

We cannot rely on things like "oh it was not that serious" or "Somebody else will make a stance".

For a better society, everybody has a responsibility to call it out, to stand up to racism, bigotry, bullying etc.

This then will lead to a collective responsibility and awareness.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *atnip make me purrWoman
over a year ago

Reading

One thing won't change anything but it's the drip drip effect. We are further along than we were 40 years ago. We just have a way to go. It can feel futile but i think any step is worth taking. One mind changed is a victory. One person defaced the marcus rashford poster, hundreds covered it with love.

We are impatient for change, we all want it now. We don't want one more person to suffer abuse. That's not reality.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *rincess peachWoman
over a year ago

shits creek

The discussions on here have confused me more than anything.

They've shown me that some will jump to the conclusion that someone is an ignorant 'ist' when it really isn't the case. That others who are don't always realise they are.

And then there's a massive group of people like me, who get called it for treating people as equals, coz then you're not taking into account the plight of the other person and their history, ya know, by treating them the same as everyone else. Then if you do take those things into consideration you are treating them differently so you're a racist bigot.

Ultimately it comes down to the person you're dealing with as an individual and how they perceive your actions rather than how you actually act a lit of the time. One person would read nothing into what's been said or done and others will make a novel out of it.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My intentions are always good, yet

I sometimes miss

I sometimes slip

Being with someone younger is really helpful in checking these behaviours

I am regularly challenged on my choice of word or term or even the use of adjectives that aren't required

I am glad of that

I look at how my parents view the world, how I view it and how my partner views it and I do see a positive progression

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

"My intentions are always good, yet

I sometimes miss

I sometimes slip

Being with someone younger is really helpful in checking these behaviours

I am regularly challenged on my choice of word or term or even the use of adjectives that aren't required

I am glad of that

I look at how my parents view the world, how I view it and how my partner views it and I do see a positive progression

Really really good point!

My kids are my "checkers" for me - they have called me out when I thought I was saying something positive that in fact it was a micro-aggression. I had not heard of micro-aggressions until about 6 months ago.

I am grateful to my kids for continuing to educate me. It is a two way street.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Nothing to do with the questions but the thread title... The first thing that came into my head was the song on Shrek

Miss S x

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

Post new Message to Thread