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1 week to appeal after sacking

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

hi

any legal types here

i was sacked afew weeks ago for what is pretty trivial and thinking of going to appeathe decision.

just before i left he said i have 1 week to appeal it,also in the last letter they sent me it said the same thing.

looking it up im sure i have 3 months

any helpers?

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

were you sacked within your probation period?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

id been there 4 years

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By *ap AdgeMan
over a year ago

Wirral

Are you in a union. If not consumer forums uk are good also cab are good too. Good luck

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

I think it depends on why you were sacked. I am not making accusations, but being sacked for gross misconduct would be different for being sacked for a more trivial reason.

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By *issBehavingxxWoman
over a year ago

Glasgow

You have 12 weeks to start tribunal proceedings for unfair dismissal.

The 1 week is possibly the companies internal policy.

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By *ruitWoman
over a year ago

near kings lynn

I think you need to say what the trivial reason was too as for all fabsters know you may have been sacked for something you feel trivial but your ex employers clearly do not.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

ACAS are good... They will give you up to date advice.... Have you had any warnings as to the reason you were sacked eg lateness etc.. (not saying that is the reason)

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By *ucsparkMan
over a year ago

dudley

If you have household insurance you might find they have legal helpline and Di the foot work too.

Good luck

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

most companies have a human resources department

contact them

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By *ont Ask Dont GetWoman
over a year ago

amersham

Don't know the law but find it highly unlikely and unreasonable that it would be just a week

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

a warning light came on in my very old truck which was not uncommon.i was about 12 13 miles from yard so drove it back after checking the brakes still worked.

another time i was 80 odd miles from yard and had air pissing out of the trailer,if i stayed still for too long the brakes locked up.that time they said drive it back to the yard

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

One week would be the time you could appeal internally against the decision but you have three months to go to a tribunal, seek advice asap from any of the above mentioned agencies and good luck

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By *exki11enWoman
over a year ago

Bristol


"One week would be the time you could appeal internally against the decision but you have three months to go to a tribunal"

This

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Im the manager of a large compnay and have sacked many people, we give them 28 day to appeal and within that time its done internally other than that theres no time limit, you can appeal at any time but the sooner you do it the better

heres no law that will kick you out of court for leaving it 3 years before yoy appeal tho they will want to know why you left it so long

Also make sure you read your works hand book and what they class as gross misconduct because if what you was sacked for is in there theres nothing you can do about it as its in black and white not to do it, there has been people where i work sacked for texting in works time which does sound trivial but its against comany policy so if you break it you get a warning then your gone if you do it again

Not knowing what you did i find it hard to give a real opinion but for things that really are trivial you should by law get a verbal warning and a written warning before you are fired but your idea of trivial may not be what id class as trivial

Ive sacked people for eating damaged stock and they honestly cant see what they have done wrong as its damaged so we cant sell it so they see eating it as ok, as a company we dont share their _iews

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

looks like he drove a vehicle that couldve been a danger on the roads

brakes arent really something you wanna chance driving a truck

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't know the details of your case, but I have a very good employment solicitor if you want her details.

I used her and won my case.

She isn't cheap but she will let you know (for free I reckon) if you have a case...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"looks like he drove a vehicle that couldve been a danger on the roads

brakes arent really something you wanna chance driving a truck "

he wouldnt get sacked for that unless the vehical was tagged as unsafe to drive and he drove it anyway, in which cause thats hardly trivial

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By *ercedes62Woman
over a year ago

Northampton

I'm told that you have one week to appeal the decision.

As a driver surely you have a union representative within the company?

The problem is although you were told to drive back once unless you have something in writing it does not set a precedent.

This information comes from my partner and he ask how long you have been with the company concerned?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"hi

any legal types here

i was sacked afew weeks ago for what is pretty trivial and thinking of going to appeathe decision.

just before i left he said i have 1 week to appeal it,also in the last letter they sent me it said the same thing.

looking it up im sure i have 3 months

any helpers?"

Depends on what you were sacked for. If Gross Misconduct, then that must be against specific grounds set out in your contract or in the company handbook which MUST have accompanied your contract at time of signing.

I would suggest you approach your Union, if you were in one at this company, or if not go straight to ACAS (but for ACAS you MUST have a written contract or they cannot help).

The limit on bringing a case against your former employer for wrongful dismissal is 6 years IF you had a written contract. If not, it may be less than that. The longer you leave it, the more you will have to justify why you have left it.

Also were you asked to sign any form of 'Compromise Agreement' when they sacked you? If so, and you did not get advice prior to signing it, you may have signed ALL your rights away.

GO GET PROFESSIONAL HELP.

And yes, I have been both a senior manager dishing this sort of thing out, and an employee on the receiving end of it

Good luck with it.

Pork

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester


"hi

any legal types here

i was sacked afew weeks ago for what is pretty trivial and thinking of going to appeathe decision.

just before i left he said i have 1 week to appeal it,also in the last letter they sent me it said the same thing.

looking it up im sure i have 3 months

any helpers?"

So why didn't you appeal in the first week?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you feel it's unfair dismissal then it's 3 months as I got made redundant & it was all done wrong, i was told to go to a tribuneral and that's what I was advised xx

Good luck

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You are getting confused with two separate issues and procedures.

Your employers sacked you, you must have gone through a disciplinary procedure before they did so. They would have provided you with a letter stating the reasons for your dismissal. You have one week to appeal your employers decision to dismiss you. All you need to do is put in writing that you are appealing their decision. They will then set a date for another meeting so you can state your reasons why you are appealing.

If you take your case to an Employment Tribunal you have 3 months from the date of ytour dismissal. This is basically putting your employers through a legal process, like a court situation though not as formal. You must state your reasons why you feel you have been unfairly dismissed. The Tribunal Court will then contact your employers, if they feel you have a case, to request compensation for unfair dismissal. Your employers' Human Resources Department will respond.

The tribunal will only take your case on if they feel you have been unfairly dismissed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

On now reading your reason why you were dismissed. You took the decision to drive a faulty vehicle on the road back to the yard. If you did not ask the employers what to do, then they do have a case. The other time you asked, and they would have a record of that, so they cannot dispute their advice in driving it back.

Have you reported officially the previous times the warning light appeared. If there's a record of your complaints on a faulty vehicle and your employers didn't deal with that, that will help. Again though you need evidence to support this, and normally its just verbal isn't it.

These kind of things may have happened many times before, but if employers are looking for ways to reduce their workforce without paying redundancy, then its a common way to do so. Look through your handbook on what the written company policy is on reporting faults. If it states in writing you must contact the yard, and you didn't, a tribunal may not take this on.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"On now reading your reason why you were dismissed. You took the decision to drive a faulty vehicle on the road back to the yard. If you did not ask the employers what to do, then they do have a case. The other time you asked, and they would have a record of that, so they cannot dispute their advice in driving it back.

Have you reported officially the previous times the warning light appeared. If there's a record of your complaints on a faulty vehicle and your employers didn't deal with that, that will help. Again though you need evidence to support this, and normally its just verbal isn't it.

These kind of things may have happened many times before, but if employers are looking for ways to reduce their workforce without paying redundancy, then its a common way to do so. Look through your handbook on what the written company policy is on reporting faults. If it states in writing you must contact the yard, and you didn't, a tribunal may not take this on. "

+1 He needs to get professional advice if he wants to take it further..

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By *adja_lazloCouple
over a year ago

Solihull


"looks like he drove a vehicle that couldve been a danger on the roads

brakes arent really something you wanna chance driving a truck

he wouldnt get sacked for that unless the vehical was tagged as unsafe to drive and he drove it anyway, in which cause thats hardly trivial"

The individual driver has to do checks before the take it out on the road, so therefore, sorry, he should have checked Also there has to be a process the company go through, sounds like they have with one warning light and the brakes incidnet

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By *adja_lazloCouple
over a year ago

Solihull


"You are getting confused with two separate issues and procedures.

Your employers sacked you, you must have gone through a disciplinary procedure before they did so. They would have provided you with a letter stating the reasons for your dismissal. You have one week to appeal your employers decision to dismiss you. All you need to do is put in writing that you are appealing their decision. They will then set a date for another meeting so you can state your reasons why you are appealing.

If you take your case to an Employment Tribunal you have 3 months from the date of ytour dismissal. This is basically putting your employers through a legal process, like a court situation though not as formal. You must state your reasons why you feel you have been unfairly dismissed. The Tribunal Court will then contact your employers, if they feel you have a case, to request compensation for unfair dismissal. Your employers' Human Resources Department will respond.

The tribunal will only take your case on if they feel you have been unfairly dismissed. "

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester


"a warning light came on in my very old truck which was not uncommon.i was about 12 13 miles from yard so drove it back after checking the brakes still worked.

another time i was 80 odd miles from yard and had air pissing out of the trailer,if i stayed still for too long the brakes locked up.that time they said drive it back to the yard"

So what you are saying is... it wasn't the same fault but the second time you made the decision to drive a faulty vehicle off your own back.

If the company procedure is for drivers to get advice in the event of a vehicle fault or warning light coming on... the first time you followed the procedure, the second time you didn't.

If you failed to follow the procedure and doing so it is considered an act of gross misconduct, as long as they followed company’s disciplinary procedure, they have every right to sack you.

ACAS and if it ever did get to a tribunal would firstly want to know why you didn't follow the company's disciplinary procedure and appeal within one week..... as the company will no doubt produce notes of the meeting showing you were verbally advised of the procedure and then a second time advised in writing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"a warning light came on in my very old truck which was not uncommon.i was about 12 13 miles from yard so drove it back after checking the brakes still worked.

another time i was 80 odd miles from yard and had air pissing out of the trailer,if i stayed still for too long the brakes locked up.that time they said drive it back to the yard"

Have you got documented proof of being made to drive the vehicle back to work in an unroadworthy state?

Have you got evidence of any other circumstances where you were made to drive unfit or unroadworthy vehicles?

One thing to be careful of is the fact it all comes down to drivers responsability to check vehicles before, during and after using them.

If you have documented.proof that you were made to drive them then you have a strong case, if not then it could be difficult to prove who.was in the wrong.

Good luck, I would still challenge their decision and try either way.

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester


" Have you got documented proof of being made to drive the vehicle back to work in an unroadworthy state?"

'Made' is a big assumption.

There is nothing to indicate he was told to drive it 'or else' or for that matter who advised him.... was it a guy in the office or an engineer? It is still by law the driver's responsibility. If he was 'made' to drive the vehicle the first time, did he raise a grievance or report the person who 'made' him?

But still, the relevance of the first incident is that the first time he asked what to do, the second time he didn't.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"a warning light came on in my very old truck which was not uncommon.i was about 12 13 miles from yard so drove it back after checking the brakes still worked.

another time i was 80 odd miles from yard and had air pissing out of the trailer,if i stayed still for too long the brakes locked up.that time they said drive it back to the yard"

I'm a truck driver too and not to sound harsh but depending on the warning on the dash being a driver doesn't qualify you to determine of the brakes are working or not.. Ultimately if you were to crash and kill someone its your responsibilty and the age of the truck would have no bearing on that.. I'd be weary of appealing as u could be prosecuted still if it eventually went to court and VOSA got involved..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" Have you got documented proof of being made to drive the vehicle back to work in an unroadworthy state?

'Made' is a big assumption.

There is nothing to indicate he was told to drive it 'or else' or for that matter who advised him.... was it a guy in the office or an engineer? It is still by law the driver's responsibility. If he was 'made' to drive the vehicle the first time, did he raise a grievance or report the person who 'made' him?

But still, the relevance of the first incident is that the first time he asked what to do, the second time he didn't.

"

That was my point, was he made to do it?

A good driver would have refused to drive an unsafe vehicle.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What's in the procedures?

Is there documented evidence that you have read the procedures?

Was there suitable training for the job?

Was there documented evidence that you have been suitably trained for the job?

etc. etc...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" Have you got documented proof of being made to drive the vehicle back to work in an unroadworthy state?

'Made' is a big assumption.

There is nothing to indicate he was told to drive it 'or else' or for that matter who advised him.... was it a guy in the office or an engineer? It is still by law the driver's responsibility. If he was 'made' to drive the vehicle the first

time, did he raise a grievance or report the person who 'made' him?

But still, the relevance of the first incident is that the first time he asked what to do, the second time he didn't.

"

No one can make me drive a truck I feel isn't safe or if there's a warning on my dash relating to my brakes.. No matter who phones me and "makes" me do it, it will sit at the side of the road until a qualified mechanic comes and rectifies it.. My policy is, my license my life my choice

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Id apeal as a driver my self I think it was harsh to sack u . Thats why im in the union. Wots the worst that can happen if u apeal.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" Have you got documented proof of being made to drive the vehicle back to work in an unroadworthy state?

'Made' is a big assumption.

There is nothing to indicate he was told to drive it 'or else' or for that matter who advised him.... was it a guy in the office or an engineer? It is still by law the driver's responsibility. If he was 'made' to drive the vehicle the first

time, did he raise a grievance or report the person who 'made' him?

But still, the relevance of the first incident is that the first time he asked what to do, the second time he didn't.

No one can make me drive a truck I feel isn't safe or if there's a warning on my dash relating to my brakes.. No matter who phones me and "makes" me do it, it will sit at the side of the road until a qualified mechanic comes and rectifies it.. My policy is, my license my life my choice"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Id apeal as a driver my self I think it was harsh to sack u . Thats why im in the union. Wots the worst that can happen if u apeal. "

I know a driver who appealed a descision to sack him over driver hours infringements.. His work sacked him and that was the end of it, but he appealed it so they went to the tribunal and let VOSA see his tachos and they done him.. 2500 fine and 6 month ban right up his arse and all the employer got was a 1000 fine which was a lot cheaper than his unfair dismissal claim.. I'm just sayin some employers will take the hit just out of spite

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By *ougnrueCouple
over a year ago

Dumfries

it is a drivers duty to stop at a safe place and inform opperator of problem and to take advice as to what to do ie continue journey or get the problem sorted at road side this applies to all drivers not just hgv drivers but when air brakes have a leek no driver should continue their journey its your licence that is at risk and if things go wrong your the cause of the accident and or deaths it you that is in charge of the vehicle your resposiable ex truck driver of 20+ years

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It depends how big the air leak is if it wasn't a bad leek u might think it was just the age of the wagon as to why ur losing pressure. But iv learnt if ur not sure phone ur transport office and let them make the dission.

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By *john121Man
over a year ago

staffs

Plenty of advice has been given and you must make your own mind up.

But for my two pennyworth seek prof advice from an employement specialist.

They should be consultancy

employment law and human resource specialists.

I suggest you google and find one local to you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The brake warning light indicates that youre brake pads are worn.Surely this would of been checked on the first occasion.Even if this light comes on youre brake pads are still servicable and the vehicle is safe to drive,this is warning that they need changing not to stop the vehicle,render it unsafe.. xx

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By *rank_SimoneCouple
over a year ago

Bideford

You would have had one week to appeal against the decision internally through the company grievance procedure.

To claim unfair dismissal you have three months to lodge an appeal through the industrial tribunial form IT1.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What's in the procedures?

Is there documented evidence that you have read the procedures?

Was there suitable training for the job?

Was there documented evidence that you have been suitably trained for the job?

etc. etc...

"

Most of us sign a contract, it will detail procedures we need to abide by. Before signing it is our responsibility to read everything in it. Now we all know that many of us sign the contract and just proof read disciplinary procedures, none of us think we will need that.

Training courses that are provided by employers have an attendance sheet to sign, that is the evidence that the employee has been trained and an appraisal of the training afterwards. Most of us just sign these and fill out the evaluations in a rush afterwards as we want to get out. But we should be aware that we are signing to say we've been properly trained and understand it.

I would imagine that drivers are given a drivers handbook, I bet you have to sign for it at issue. You are therefore signing to say you've got a copy and you understand its contents. If you don't follow that handbook religiously, you are in breach of it.

A lot of us sign things at work without giving our full attention to it. This is the employersd safety net. It doesn't matter what is usually done, or what you've been verbally told, traceable evidence is what is important.

As a driver how do you contact the yard. Do you have an electronic device inside the cab for messages. If there is then there is a record of all messages sent. They will look to see if you reported the fault on that. If you didn't you are probably breaching, and the employers have a leverage to get you out should they wish to do so.

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

wow a lot of great advice.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

have advised on employment law for over 30 years-IMMEDIATELY see an employment solicitor or the CAB

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By *kin BohnerMan
over a year ago

derby

All I can say is forget ACAS, go to the CAB. A friend was sacked and took the company to an employment tribunal, she won and was awarded compensation. ACAS were a waste of time from start to finish and seemed to be on the side of the company rather than being neutral, thats when you can get hold of someone to speak to! By the way she had no legal representation either.

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By *layfullsamMan
over a year ago

Solihull

when i was made redundant acas were brilliant, why not speak to them and make your own mind up it cant harm

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By *empnbunkCouple
over a year ago

south coast

Thinking about it it does come down to whether there are procedures in place for employees to follow should mechanical problems arise ....and if they were did u follow them...some warning lights can indicate a problem which still makes it possible to drive safely I.e an amber warning light ...if the warning light in dash is red thats a diff story it could mean 1 of 2 things ....1 being the vehicle could be dangerous to drive or 2 the fault could be catastrophic to the vehicle if u continue to drive in any case you should NEVER continue to drive a vehicle with a red warning light on the dash

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By *leasureDomeMan
over a year ago

all over the place

Definitely contact ACAS a lot of companies write there own diciplinary procedure without consulting the ACAS guidelines and good practice

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i work in distribution as a manager and have never disciplined a driver for anyhing like what you have been sacked for, that said all of my drivers would know to pull over and call in any vehicle issues before continuing, as somebody has already stated amber warning lights are warning you to get something checked out,red warning lights are a "STOP NOW"warning and you should not proceed. i would certainly get advice from Citizens advice or somebody like that, as for the week to appeal that is normal and only means an internal appeal whereby somebody else within the company hears the case and makes there decision after that you sill can appeal but this would be external and then may lead to a tribunal

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester


"Definitely contact ACAS a lot of companies write there own diciplinary procedure without consulting the ACAS guidelines and good practice "

Yes they do… as there is no requirement under law for an employer to follow the ACAS guidelines.

However, the ACAS statutory Code of Practice1, issued under section 199 of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act which came into effect 2009, does state:


"

Employers should carry out any necessary investigations, to establish

the facts of the case.

Employers should inform employees of the basis of the problem and

give them an opportunity to put their case in response before any

decisions are made.

Employers should allow employees to be accompanied at any formal

disciplinary or grievance meeting.

Employers should allow an employee to appeal against any formal

decision made.

"

The OP has indicated he was informed of his right to appeal both verbally and in writing, the deadline of 7 days is fairly standard. Whilst it is never safe to assume in this type of situation, it is highly unlikely an employer, who has ensured the employee is aware of their right to appeal so comprehensively, has ignored the previous elements of the Code in their disciplinary procedures.

The Code also states:


"

“A failure to follow the Code does not, in itself, make a person or organisation

liable to proceedings. However, employment tribunals will take the Code into

account when considering relevant cases. Tribunals will also be able to adjust

any awards made in relevant cases by up to 25 per cent for unreasonable

failure to comply with any provision of the Code. This means that if the

tribunal feels that an employer has unreasonably failed to follow the guidance

set out in the Code they can increase any award they have made by up to

25 per cent. Conversely, if they feel an employee has unreasonably failed to

follow the guidance set out in the Code they can reduce any award they have

made by up to 25 per cent.”

"

The OP failed to follow the ACAS statutory Code of Practice by not adhering to the employer’s disciplinary procedure with regards to his right to appeal within one week. ACAS, a tribunal or any employment specialist will want to know why he did not follow the advice and chose not to appeal.

There is no harm whatsoever in writing to his former employer and asking if they would still consider an appeal hearing.... if he's lucky they might just say yes.

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By *acandJulesCouple
over a year ago

Stockton on Tees

Sounds very much like a Asda Manager lol

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By *john121Man
over a year ago

staffs

It doesn't have to be a solicitor... There are specialists out there who will often proffer some advice gratis and if they should decide there's a case to answer can act on your behalf at a lower cost to you...

Depending on the size of the company you worked for they will also have to seak advice and may have to engage a company to act on their behalf.

One the claim has been registered (if valid) ACAS will apoint an intermediary (conciliator) to try to resolve before going to court.

Do NOT attempt to do this by yourself....rest assured the company will have all the help they've paid for...

It can be very difficult to show unfair dismissal so you'll need to gather as much evidence as possible.

ie are there other people who've experienced what you have, what do you have in writing and who will speak on your behalf as witnesses.

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