Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
 | Back to forum list |
| Back to The Lounge |
| Jump to newest |  |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Is there a crisis in masculinity? Discuss ( by that I mean let’s try to keep it civil and not make personal attacks) " What is masculinity? Who is masculinity? When is masculinity? Where is masculinity? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
 | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"As in a lack of it? Or to much? " Either, both, neither. I realise that it’s vague and open ended, that’s the point.  | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Please elaborate " Don’t wanna! The idea is to say if you think there is or not and why | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Is there a crisis in masculinity? Discuss ( by that I mean let’s try to keep it civil and not make personal attacks) What is masculinity? Who is masculinity? When is masculinity? Where is masculinity?" Why is masculinity? All very good questions… | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Interesting subject, maybe not a crisis per say but masculinity is often misplaced for sexism in this day and age in my opinion, extreme feminism and the argument of all sexes/genders being equal leaves little room for masculinity, what defines masculinity today?" Is it possible to define masculinity? People tried to recently and just came up with vague tropes or aspects that fit into any gender description. What is extreme feminism and how does that look? Can you describe what it is about extreme feminism that’s problematic beyond what you might have heard on SM? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
 | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I think certain people on both sides of the divide like to think there is, weighted whichever way they lean. Personally I don't think so, but then I've never thought in terms of masculinity or femininity and just take people as I find them regardless of their gender. Am I masculine? In the sense that I'm a male, then yes I am - do I assert my masculinity in any particular way? Not consciously I don't. Do I feel it is in crisis? Not in the slightest personally." Can you expand on your first paragraph? What divide and what do you mean by lean? What are the alternative views? How do you define your masculinity? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Please elaborate Don’t wanna! The idea is to say if you think there is or not and why" I don’t know it’s one of those words isn’t it. To me it’s probably always meant big, muscley man. I think the meanings have been changed a bit over the years though. It was sort of masculine is a real man, manly man in the past but what is a real man or a manly man? So all in all I dunno! Hope that helps  | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Men who are secure in their masculinity are confident enough to express femininity... The crisis is that too few men have that level of self-confidence "That’s an interesting view, so you think that there is but it’s because masculinity isn’t feminine enough? Isn’t that a contradiction? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I believe there’s currently an attack on masculinity by extreme feminist groups that think anything masculine is bad" This, however knuckle dragging lager drinking dickheads that think masculinity is getting into a ruck on a weekend doesn’t help the cause of the rest of us nice caveman types.  | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I believe there’s currently an attack on masculinity by extreme feminist groups that think anything masculine is bad" What is masculine and what are these attacks? What do you think is good about masculinity? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I don't necessarily see it as a loss of masculinty, but looking at the younger generation who are so much more comfortable with varied sexuality and each other, there is an apparent loss of the "stiff upper lip, don't be soft don't show emotion, be a man" mentality the older generation used to drive into mine. That's not to say masculinity has diminished at all, just get yourself out on the piss in any Valley town and you'll see it in its finest "roided-up wanna fight" form (the irony being, all while they're bouncing round in their fake tans, tight clothes and jewellery! Did the older generation not teach them anything!) "So masculinity is fighting, stiff upper lip and emotional stoicism? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Please elaborate Don’t wanna! The idea is to say if you think there is or not and why I don’t know it’s one of those words isn’t it. To me it’s probably always meant big, muscley man. I think the meanings have been changed a bit over the years though. It was sort of masculine is a real man, manly man in the past but what is a real man or a manly man? So all in all I dunno! Hope that helps "It does come back to what is a man, which needs to be defined before answering clearly. Phrases like ‘manly man’ or ‘real man’ only muddy the waters and mean different things. Is a muscular 6’ man more of a man than a 5’ slim man? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I believe there’s currently an attack on masculinity by extreme feminist groups that think anything masculine is bad This, however knuckle dragging lager drinking dickheads that think masculinity is getting into a ruck on a weekend doesn’t help the cause of the rest of us nice caveman types. "What are the differences between good and bad though? What qualities are they? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"My ex said I made him feel emasculated so I guess he had a crisis." How so? If you don’t mind me asking | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Please elaborate Don’t wanna! The idea is to say if you think there is or not and why I don’t know it’s one of those words isn’t it. To me it’s probably always meant big, muscley man. I think the meanings have been changed a bit over the years though. It was sort of masculine is a real man, manly man in the past but what is a real man or a manly man? So all in all I dunno! Hope that helps
It does come back to what is a man, which needs to be defined before answering clearly. Phrases like ‘manly man’ or ‘real man’ only muddy the waters and mean different things. Is a muscular 6’ man more of a man than a 5’ slim man? "Exactly. I’m not a fan of the terms real man and real woman. If someone said to me I like a masculine man I would think big chest, robust, strong. But is it that really? I don’t know x | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Masculinity is subjective, it can be a look, the way you dress, the obvious one is body shape. There is no one thing that truly defines masculinity. At the end of the day it is in the eye and mind of the beholder" If it’s subjective then how can we define ourselves as masculine and isn’t that a crisis in itself? If there are no unifying characteristics, then how can we tell what is or isn’t? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Interesting subject, maybe not a crisis per say but masculinity is often misplaced for sexism in this day and age in my opinion, extreme feminism and the argument of all sexes/genders being equal leaves little room for masculinity, what defines masculinity today? Is it possible to define masculinity? People tried to recently and just came up with vague tropes or aspects that fit into any gender description. What is extreme feminism and how does that look? Can you describe what it is about extreme feminism that’s problematic beyond what you might have heard on SM? " The text book definition would be that a man who is truly masculine embraces responsibility and loves, honours, protects and provides for his family and loved ones. He lives with integrity, motivated by conviction, not comfort or convenience. True masculinity is not determined by how much physical strength a man has but rather the strength of his character. But it is a dated ideology now, it is no longer a mans responsibility to provide for his family as equality states just that, which is fine don’t get me wrong, I am happy it is the case but I can see why ‘masculinity’ is under attack from extreme feminism, I can give you an example, not so much on masculinity but in general of extreme feminism, pit girls, there were interviews with out girls who all wanted the job, paid well, put themselves through education, some were lawyers, doctors etc yet they were scrapped because women (who were never or would never be a pit girl) campaigned to get rid of them as they deemed it sexist, despite every single pit girl wanting to be one | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I believe there’s currently an attack on masculinity by extreme feminist groups that think anything masculine is bad What is masculine and what are these attacks? What do you think is good about masculinity? " I think masculinity is being confident, not arrogant, it’s being stoic in the face of adversity, it’s being rooted in knowing who you are and confident in your ability to change the world around you, not be changed by it. It’s being a leader. It’s being able to put your ego aside and admit when your wrong or admit your faults. It’s many more things I think lots of these are build when your a child by going through adversity and challenges Sadly, adversity doesn’t exist much anymore Everyone gets a trophy, there are no losers Boys are taught that roughhouseing is wrong. Play nicely. People are quick to place kids on medication which numbs then, instead of finding ways to engage them. Boys are being left behind in schools. There’s so much going in my head at this question is hard to put it all into words. I just feel that masculinity is on a downward trend, more boys raised by single mothers, raised by TV, they are coddled by video games and high speed internet porn I wish I could explain myself better | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Please elaborate Don’t wanna! The idea is to say if you think there is or not and why I don’t know it’s one of those words isn’t it. To me it’s probably always meant big, muscley man. I think the meanings have been changed a bit over the years though. It was sort of masculine is a real man, manly man in the past but what is a real man or a manly man? So all in all I dunno! Hope that helps
It does come back to what is a man, which needs to be defined before answering clearly. Phrases like ‘manly man’ or ‘real man’ only muddy the waters and mean different things. Is a muscular 6’ man more of a man than a 5’ slim man?
Exactly. I’m not a fan of the terms real man and real woman. If someone said to me I like a masculine man I would think big chest, robust, strong. But is it that really? I don’t know x"Absolutely! Isn’t that a crisis in itself though? How can we tell what is masculine if we can’t define it? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
i am mostly attracted to males who aren’t very hairy or with deep booming voices...those two traits are actually turn offs for me. Does that mean I am attracted to less masculine men?
It’s a concept as archaic and stupid as being very “feminine”...a woman who dresses in jeans and trainers isn’t any less feminine as one who dresses in floaty dresses and lace...  | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I believe there’s currently an attack on masculinity by extreme feminist groups that think anything masculine is bad What is masculine and what are these attacks? What do you think is good about masculinity? I think masculinity is being confident, not arrogant, it’s being stoic in the face of adversity, it’s being rooted in knowing who you are and confident in your ability to change the world around you, not be changed by it. It’s being a leader. It’s being able to put your ego aside and admit when your wrong or admit your faults. It’s many more things I think lots of these are build when your a child by going through adversity and challenges Sadly, adversity doesn’t exist much anymore Everyone gets a trophy, there are no losers Boys are taught that roughhouseing is wrong. Play nicely. People are quick to place kids on medication which numbs then, instead of finding ways to engage them. Boys are being left behind in schools. There’s so much going in my head at this question is hard to put it all into words. I just feel that masculinity is on a downward trend, more boys raised by single mothers, raised by TV, they are coddled by video games and high speed internet porn I wish I could explain myself better " I think that what you describe at the top are certain tropes of how someone might try to describe men but they can also be seen as toxic or feminine traits as well. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I think certain people on both sides of the divide like to think there is, weighted whichever way they lean. Personally I don't think so, but then I've never thought in terms of masculinity or femininity and just take people as I find them regardless of their gender. Am I masculine? In the sense that I'm a male, then yes I am - do I assert my masculinity in any particular way? Not consciously I don't. Do I feel it is in crisis? Not in the slightest personally. Can you expand on your first paragraph? What divide and what do you mean by lean? What are the alternative views? How do you define your masculinity? " The divide being the extremes of both feminism and masculinity and the views held by those that sit there (regardless of gender) - one seeking to bring down what they see as masculinity and the other seeking to protect it at all costs. As for my masculinity, as I said I don't think in terms of masculinity and femininity in any other sense than it's most basic one - a person is who they are and I take them or leave them based on that, not their gender. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Interesting subject, maybe not a crisis per say but masculinity is often misplaced for sexism in this day and age in my opinion, extreme feminism and the argument of all sexes/genders being equal leaves little room for masculinity, what defines masculinity today? Is it possible to define masculinity? People tried to recently and just came up with vague tropes or aspects that fit into any gender description. What is extreme feminism and how does that look? Can you describe what it is about extreme feminism that’s problematic beyond what you might have heard on SM? The text book definition would be that a man who is truly masculine embraces responsibility and loves, honours, protects and provides for his family and loved ones. He lives with integrity, motivated by conviction, not comfort or convenience. True masculinity is not determined by how much physical strength a man has but rather the strength of his character. But it is a dated ideology now, it is no longer a mans responsibility to provide for his family as equality states just that, which is fine don’t get me wrong, I am happy it is the case but I can see why ‘masculinity’ is under attack from extreme feminism, I can give you an example, not so much on masculinity but in general of extreme feminism, pit girls, there were interviews with out girls who all wanted the job, paid well, put themselves through education, some were lawyers, doctors etc yet they were scrapped because women (who were never or would never be a pit girl) campaigned to get rid of them as they deemed it sexist, despite every single pit girl wanting to be one" Yep. Lots of examples of these “feminists”‘ putting intelligent women out of jobs they chose to do. Go figure! But that’s a different thread altogether I guess. I agree though I think how most of us probably define masculinity is a dated ideology now. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
 | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Masculinity is subjective, it can be a look, the way you dress, the obvious one is body shape. There is no one thing that truly defines masculinity. At the end of the day it is in the eye and mind of the beholder If it’s subjective then how can we define ourselves as masculine and isn’t that a crisis in itself? If there are no unifying characteristics, then how can we tell what is or isn’t? " but you could, if that were the case apply the same for femininity, because we are all diverse, we all display different aspects of masculinity or femininity, there is no all encompassing definition, it isn't all about the visual aspect though, it is a state of mind as well. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I believe there’s currently an attack on masculinity by extreme feminist groups that think anything masculine is bad What is masculine and what are these attacks? What do you think is good about masculinity? I think masculinity is being confident, not arrogant, it’s being stoic in the face of adversity, it’s being rooted in knowing who you are and confident in your ability to change the world around you, not be changed by it. It’s being a leader. It’s being able to put your ego aside and admit when your wrong or admit your faults. It’s many more things I think lots of these are build when your a child by going through adversity and challenges Sadly, adversity doesn’t exist much anymore Everyone gets a trophy, there are no losers Boys are taught that roughhouseing is wrong. Play nicely. People are quick to place kids on medication which numbs then, instead of finding ways to engage them. Boys are being left behind in schools. There’s so much going in my head at this question is hard to put it all into words. I just feel that masculinity is on a downward trend, more boys raised by single mothers, raised by TV, they are coddled by video games and high speed internet porn I wish I could explain myself better " Maybe all men should take an active part in bringing up their children. Sadly, if they split with the mother within 2yrs many are seeing less of their children, many not seeing them at all. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Men who are secure in their masculinity are confident enough to express femininity... The crisis is that too few men have that level of self-confidence "This. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"So masculinity is fighting, stiff upper lip and emotional stoicism? " To me, my view, of society's perception of it, yes. Fighting was more a quipp than specific observation, but the point being the 'chest beating, muscle flexing, I'm harder than you and therefore more masculine' mentality of said fighters. On the whole, I think it's (the perception of masculinity) changing with the generations and has less of a definative answer. ...which is what justifies and fuels this great debate! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"My ex said I made him feel emasculated so I guess he had a crisis. How so? If you don’t mind me asking " I've really no idea. I don't think I am that powerful. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"My ex said I made him feel emasculated so I guess he had a crisis. How so? If you don’t mind me asking I've really no idea. I don't think I am that powerful. " Indipendent woman, probably that threaten his ego | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I don't necessarily think there is. But I do think that the traditional male and female roles are changing and becoming more mingled. And I think it's taking some a little while to catch up. I think because women have fought for equality for such a long time they kinda knew what the goal was. But we didn't take into account the impact that it would have on men and didn't factor it in. Now I sometimes feel men are playing catch up with equality, which can make them appear sexist but I don't think that is the case. Like my sister is the main bread winner by a significant margin. And this hurts her ex forces husband as he feels he should provide the most. Where my sister believes she's worked damn hard in a male dominated workplace and gets pissed off with him. So I think it's more about readdressing the balance for the current times. More than there is a crisis in masculinity. " This is what I was trying to say; just with sense, logic and clarity! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I don't necessarily think there is. But I do think that the traditional male and female roles are changing and becoming more mingled. And I think it's taking some a little while to catch up. I think because women have fought for equality for such a long time they kinda knew what the goal was. But we didn't take into account the impact that it would have on men and didn't factor it in. Now I sometimes feel men are playing catch up with equality, which can make them appear sexist but I don't think that is the case. Like my sister is the main bread winner by a significant margin. And this hurts her ex forces husband as he feels he should provide the most. Where my sister believes she's worked damn hard in a male dominated workplace and gets pissed off with him. So I think it's more about readdressing the balance for the current times. More than there is a crisis in masculinity. " A lot of it is in making masculinity look bad. Yes there are aspects of the older view of masculinity that were and are extremely questionable. From a role in society especially, but they are also often natural traits for the male of a species. Like the extremes of both masculinity and femininity, the battle against both often becomes an extreme of its own and things get lost in the mess. Often in the intent to course correct in the name of equality. People look to cut out and replace, instead of including. Notice how it always tends to be about "men should be more feminine" (or variations of that saying) but it's very rarely said "women should be brought up with more masculinity" There certainly should be blurred lines, and people drifting away from the "norm". Some Women being the primary income and some men being the house husband. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Is there really a problem or is this just an issue that started in the 60’s, when guys started to wear more colours rather than grey and black ? Each generation comes along and starts to express its own idea of gender and masculinity that’s ever changing, Bowie in the 70’s or Boy George in the 80’s even Jarvis Cocker in the 90’s. Can these guys be totally masculine or were they just ahead of the curve ? True masculinity to me, is actually being happy within yourself to express yourself, whatever way you choose. I don’t actually see this as a rising issue, toxicity, rather than it’s something that’s gradually decreasing with each new generation. Ask a younger person is being gay bad ? They’ll look at you with a puzzled expression and call you ‘grandad’ as they walk away. Back in the 70/80’s there would be no argument, being gay would be hidden and you would be ostracised for being positive over it. But for the next generation that’s come along, they’re educated enough to know that not being part of the mainstream isn’t such a terrible thing and shouldn’t be mocked. You will still get hyper masculine guys today, but they’re more likely to still be friends with their more feminine acting mates rather than in the past when they’d keep to their own types. Toxic masculinity, come on Grandad get with the times " | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" You will still get hyper masculine guys today, but they’re more likely to still be friends with their more feminine acting mates rather than in the past when they’d keep to their own types." Condensed the quote to just this because it sums it up, the masculine guys should not be attacked for being as such. Just as the more feminine guys should not be attacked for theirs. Actual bad behaviour hidden behind traits and appearances is the issue that needs to be stopped and tackled. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" You will still get hyper masculine guys today, but they’re more likely to still be friends with their more feminine acting mates rather than in the past when they’d keep to their own types. Condensed the quote to just this because it sums it up, the masculine guys should not be attacked for being as such. Just as the more feminine guys should not be attacked for theirs. Actual bad behaviour hidden behind traits and appearances is the issue that needs to be stopped and tackled. " What behaviour hiding behind what traits? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Is there a crisis in masculinity? Discuss ( by that I mean let’s try to keep it civil and not make personal attacks) " You would look great in tights amd heels, try it. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Is there a crisis in masculinity? Discuss ( by that I mean let’s try to keep it civil and not make personal attacks) You would look great in tights amd heels, try it." I did, it did nothing for me but thanks for the tip
As I side note, I’ve got great legs | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Masculinity is a construct. Therefore it doesn’t really exist. Effectively it is the attributes that society has decided, over the lifecycle of civilisations, exemplify a mans actions or thoughts. However because of this it is a false construct, gender roles have changed over the centuries, more so in the last century and as such historic definitions of what makes a man a man and what makes a woman a woman, outside of the biological (although this in itself is “nuanced”, are now open to debate. I think it extremely negative to define a persons actions or thoughts based on an archaic descriptor. Women provide for families, men care for families (historically the reverse in the stereotyping of attributes associated with masculinity and femininity). Women go to war, men care for the sick. In the 21st century, ascribing an individuals actions to a generalisation of “toxic masculinity” is lazy stereotyping. In the 21st century we must learn to call a cunt a cunt and have done. " That’s a really good response. Perhaps the point is that the crisis in masculinity and in gender roles as a whole is that generational divides and society can’t keep up with the shift in reality. In essence the theory and idea of ‘being a man’ isn’t correlating with what that actually is. We use terms that are still present but have no relation to ourselves and those that try to cling to outdated models can’t relate to current roles. Being a man is nothing more than a gender for many people | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Honestly I don’t even know what’s right or wrong anymore! I’ve wrote a sentence and then had someone ask what if they don’t identify as a man because I wrote ‘he’ I’ve also had people have a dig because I don’t see a problem holding a door open for someone, for the record I’ve held doors open for men, women or maybe even someone who identifies as a unicorn… it’s not about belittling someone or wanting something in return, simply manners. I don’t see an issue with masculinity, there will be people who like it, and people who won’t, it’s not a crisis and people will gravitate to what they prefer, too much is overthought these days " What do you consider to be masculine? Are manners the preserve of a specific gender? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I don't necessarily think there is. But I do think that the traditional male and female roles are changing and becoming more mingled. And I think it's taking some a little while to catch up. I think because women have fought for equality for such a long time they kinda knew what the goal was. But we didn't take into account the impact that it would have on men and didn't factor it in. Now I sometimes feel men are playing catch up with equality, which can make them appear sexist but I don't think that is the case. Like my sister is the main bread winner by a significant margin. And this hurts her ex forces husband as he feels he should provide the most. Where my sister believes she's worked damn hard in a male dominated workplace and gets pissed off with him. So I think it's more about readdressing the balance for the current times. More than there is a crisis in masculinity. A lot of it is in making masculinity look bad. Yes there are aspects of the older view of masculinity that were and are extremely questionable. From a role in society especially, but they are also often natural traits for the male of a species. Like the extremes of both masculinity and femininity, the battle against both often becomes an extreme of its own and things get lost in the mess. Often in the intent to course correct in the name of equality. People look to cut out and replace, instead of including. Notice how it always tends to be about "men should be more feminine" (or variations of that saying) but it's very rarely said "women should be brought up with more masculinity" There certainly should be blurred lines, and people drifting away from the "norm". Some Women being the primary income and some men being the house husband." Do you think men are told to be more feminine? I'm not sure I agree, especially with phrases I detest such man up, grow a pair, don't be such a girl etc. I think the last few years it's become more common for men to express feelings etc and not bottle up which I don't think is a bad thing. Men don't need to be able to fix everything and I don't think that pressure is fair on them. I think we should see people as having certain traits rather than gender specific ones. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I’m so glad I’m not a man these days though. They can’t do right for doing wrong half the time. "
It’s not specific to being a guy but I tend to think that being a dick will get you in hot water, so don’t be one. I’ve managed to get along just fine! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I don't necessarily think there is. But I do think that the traditional male and female roles are changing and becoming more mingled. And I think it's taking some a little while to catch up. I think because women have fought for equality for such a long time they kinda knew what the goal was. But we didn't take into account the impact that it would have on men and didn't factor it in. Now I sometimes feel men are playing catch up with equality, which can make them appear sexist but I don't think that is the case. Like my sister is the main bread winner by a significant margin. And this hurts her ex forces husband as he feels he should provide the most. Where my sister believes she's worked damn hard in a male dominated workplace and gets pissed off with him. So I think it's more about readdressing the balance for the current times. More than there is a crisis in masculinity. A lot of it is in making masculinity look bad. Yes there are aspects of the older view of masculinity that were and are extremely questionable. From a role in society especially, but they are also often natural traits for the male of a species. Like the extremes of both masculinity and femininity, the battle against both often becomes an extreme of its own and things get lost in the mess. Often in the intent to course correct in the name of equality. People look to cut out and replace, instead of including. Notice how it always tends to be about "men should be more feminine" (or variations of that saying) but it's very rarely said "women should be brought up with more masculinity" There certainly should be blurred lines, and people drifting away from the "norm". Some Women being the primary income and some men being the house husband. Do you think men are told to be more feminine? I'm not sure I agree, especially with phrases I detest such man up, grow a pair, don't be such a girl etc. I think the last few years it's become more common for men to express feelings etc and not bottle up which I don't think is a bad thing. Men don't need to be able to fix everything and I don't think that pressure is fair on them. I think we should see people as having certain traits rather than gender specific ones. " I agree. As I said ^^ if people don’t know what ‘being a man’ is, then how can they be? Perhaps that’s where the crisis lies? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I’m so glad I’m not a man these days though. They can’t do right for doing wrong half the time.
It’s not specific to being a guy but I tend to think that being a dick will get you in hot water, so don’t be one. I’ve managed to get along just fine! "I mean all the things like helping a woman with a buggy down steps and getting a mouthful for It. That kind of thing. Holding a door open and getting abuse. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I’m so glad I’m not a man these days though. They can’t do right for doing wrong half the time.
It’s not specific to being a guy but I tend to think that being a dick will get you in hot water, so don’t be one. I’ve managed to get along just fine!
I mean all the things like helping a woman with a buggy down steps and getting a mouthful for
It. That kind of thing. Holding a door open and getting abuse. "I’ve done that and never had abuse, perhaps the issue is doing rather than asking? I’ve asked people if they need help rather than just doing it. I’d be pissed if someone just assumed that I’m helpless just because of my gender, but offering assistance is kind. Maybe that’s the catch? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I don't necessarily think there is. But I do think that the traditional male and female roles are changing and becoming more mingled. And I think it's taking some a little while to catch up. I think because women have fought for equality for such a long time they kinda knew what the goal was. But we didn't take into account the impact that it would have on men and didn't factor it in. Now I sometimes feel men are playing catch up with equality, which can make them appear sexist but I don't think that is the case. Like my sister is the main bread winner by a significant margin. And this hurts her ex forces husband as he feels he should provide the most. Where my sister believes she's worked damn hard in a male dominated workplace and gets pissed off with him. So I think it's more about readdressing the balance for the current times. More than there is a crisis in masculinity. A lot of it is in making masculinity look bad. Yes there are aspects of the older view of masculinity that were and are extremely questionable. From a role in society especially, but they are also often natural traits for the male of a species. Like the extremes of both masculinity and femininity, the battle against both often becomes an extreme of its own and things get lost in the mess. Often in the intent to course correct in the name of equality. People look to cut out and replace, instead of including. Notice how it always tends to be about "men should be more feminine" (or variations of that saying) but it's very rarely said "women should be brought up with more masculinity" There certainly should be blurred lines, and people drifting away from the "norm". Some Women being the primary income and some men being the house husband. Do you think men are told to be more feminine? I'm not sure I agree, especially with phrases I detest such man up, grow a pair, don't be such a girl etc. I think the last few years it's become more common for men to express feelings etc and not bottle up which I don't think is a bad thing. Men don't need to be able to fix everything and I don't think that pressure is fair on them. I think we should see people as having certain traits rather than gender specific ones. I agree. As I said ^^ if people don’t know what ‘being a man’ is, then how can they be? Perhaps that’s where the crisis lies? " See I don't know what being a woman is either but it has never bothered me. Last night I was out with a pick axe smashing the crap out of things in a vest and shorts. Today I'm a floaty floral dress doing science stuff. I'm just female as that's what I am regardless of what I'm doing. Maybe we shouldn't give a damn about what others think and just be yourself | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I’m so glad I’m not a man these days though. They can’t do right for doing wrong half the time.
It’s not specific to being a guy but I tend to think that being a dick will get you in hot water, so don’t be one. I’ve managed to get along just fine!
I mean all the things like helping a woman with a buggy down steps and getting a mouthful for
It. That kind of thing. Holding a door open and getting abuse.
I’ve done that and never had abuse, perhaps the issue is doing rather than asking? I’ve asked people if they need help rather than just doing it.
I’d be pissed if someone just assumed that I’m helpless just because of my gender, but offering assistance is kind.
Maybe that’s the catch? "You’ve asked if someone wants a door holding open? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Honestly I don’t even know what’s right or wrong anymore! I’ve wrote a sentence and then had someone ask what if they don’t identify as a man because I wrote ‘he’ I’ve also had people have a dig because I don’t see a problem holding a door open for someone, for the record I’ve held doors open for men, women or maybe even someone who identifies as a unicorn… it’s not about belittling someone or wanting something in return, simply manners. I don’t see an issue with masculinity, there will be people who like it, and people who won’t, it’s not a crisis and people will gravitate to what they prefer, too much is overthought these days What do you consider to be masculine? Are manners the preserve of a specific gender? " To me masculinity is assertive behaviour as I also heard a reason women can struggle with progression in the workplaces is to due to innate agreeable and nurture traits. I don’t think manners are gender specific no, but I have personally experienced being questioned for actions that were genuine acts of manners, just can’t imagine a man having a go at a woman for holding the door for them… could be wrong of course | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" See I don't know what being a woman is either but it has never bothered me. Last night I was out with a pick axe smashing the crap out of things in a vest and shorts. Today I'm a floaty floral dress doing science stuff. I'm just female as that's what I am regardless of what I'm doing. Maybe we shouldn't give a damn about what others think and just be yourself " About sums up my thoughts on it - as I said further up, I taken treat people as I find them, not because of their gender, and would like to think people treat me the same. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I don't necessarily think there is. But I do think that the traditional male and female roles are changing and becoming more mingled. And I think it's taking some a little while to catch up. I think because women have fought for equality for such a long time they kinda knew what the goal was. But we didn't take into account the impact that it would have on men and didn't factor it in. Now I sometimes feel men are playing catch up with equality, which can make them appear sexist but I don't think that is the case. Like my sister is the main bread winner by a significant margin. And this hurts her ex forces husband as he feels he should provide the most. Where my sister believes she's worked damn hard in a male dominated workplace and gets pissed off with him. So I think it's more about readdressing the balance for the current times. More than there is a crisis in masculinity. A lot of it is in making masculinity look bad. Yes there are aspects of the older view of masculinity that were and are extremely questionable. From a role in society especially, but they are also often natural traits for the male of a species. Like the extremes of both masculinity and femininity, the battle against both often becomes an extreme of its own and things get lost in the mess. Often in the intent to course correct in the name of equality. People look to cut out and replace, instead of including. Notice how it always tends to be about "men should be more feminine" (or variations of that saying) but it's very rarely said "women should be brought up with more masculinity" There certainly should be blurred lines, and people drifting away from the "norm". Some Women being the primary income and some men being the house husband. Do you think men are told to be more feminine? I'm not sure I agree, especially with phrases I detest such man up, grow a pair, don't be such a girl etc. I think the last few years it's become more common for men to express feelings etc and not bottle up which I don't think is a bad thing. Men don't need to be able to fix everything and I don't think that pressure is fair on them. I think we should see people as having certain traits rather than gender specific ones. " No sorry, I mean from the other side. Masculinity seems to be the enemy and call-out out for being sexist or toxic, for me both aspects are needed and should be embraced within reason. Straight up sexist behaviour is often just named as masculinity. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I’m so glad I’m not a man these days though. They can’t do right for doing wrong half the time.
It’s not specific to being a guy but I tend to think that being a dick will get you in hot water, so don’t be one. I’ve managed to get along just fine!
I mean all the things like helping a woman with a buggy down steps and getting a mouthful for
It. That kind of thing. Holding a door open and getting abuse.
I’ve done that and never had abuse, perhaps the issue is doing rather than asking? I’ve asked people if they need help rather than just doing it.
I’d be pissed if someone just assumed that I’m helpless just because of my gender, but offering assistance is kind.
Maybe that’s the catch? "I’m sorry why the hell do you need to ask regardless of the gender, just hold the door open it’s good manners
Accepting help doesn’t mean you look or are helpless in any setting just be mindful of overstepping when giving help | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I don't necessarily think there is. But I do think that the traditional male and female roles are changing and becoming more mingled. And I think it's taking some a little while to catch up. I think because women have fought for equality for such a long time they kinda knew what the goal was. But we didn't take into account the impact that it would have on men and didn't factor it in. Now I sometimes feel men are playing catch up with equality, which can make them appear sexist but I don't think that is the case. Like my sister is the main bread winner by a significant margin. And this hurts her ex forces husband as he feels he should provide the most. Where my sister believes she's worked damn hard in a male dominated workplace and gets pissed off with him. So I think it's more about readdressing the balance for the current times. More than there is a crisis in masculinity. A lot of it is in making masculinity look bad. Yes there are aspects of the older view of masculinity that were and are extremely questionable. From a role in society especially, but they are also often natural traits for the male of a species. Like the extremes of both masculinity and femininity, the battle against both often becomes an extreme of its own and things get lost in the mess. Often in the intent to course correct in the name of equality. People look to cut out and replace, instead of including. Notice how it always tends to be about "men should be more feminine" (or variations of that saying) but it's very rarely said "women should be brought up with more masculinity" There certainly should be blurred lines, and people drifting away from the "norm". Some Women being the primary income and some men being the house husband. Do you think men are told to be more feminine? I'm not sure I agree, especially with phrases I detest such man up, grow a pair, don't be such a girl etc. I think the last few years it's become more common for men to express feelings etc and not bottle up which I don't think is a bad thing. Men don't need to be able to fix everything and I don't think that pressure is fair on them. I think we should see people as having certain traits rather than gender specific ones. No sorry, I mean from the other side. Masculinity seems to be the enemy and call-out out for being sexist or toxic, for me both aspects are needed and should be embraced within reason. Straight up sexist behaviour is often just named as masculinity. " Oh right yeah, sorry I got the wrong end of the stick. And totally agree there is a massive difference between sexism and masculinity. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I’m so glad I’m not a man these days though. They can’t do right for doing wrong half the time.
It’s not specific to being a guy but I tend to think that being a dick will get you in hot water, so don’t be one. I’ve managed to get along just fine!
I mean all the things like helping a woman with a buggy down steps and getting a mouthful for
It. That kind of thing. Holding a door open and getting abuse.
I’ve done that and never had abuse, perhaps the issue is doing rather than asking? I’ve asked people if they need help rather than just doing it.
I’d be pissed if someone just assumed that I’m helpless just because of my gender, but offering assistance is kind.
Maybe that’s the catch?
You’ve asked if someone wants a door holding open?"No, that’s just good manners. I do it for everyone not just because they’re female. “Would you like me to not break your teeth with this heavy door?” | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I’m so glad I’m not a man these days though. They can’t do right for doing wrong half the time.
It’s not specific to being a guy but I tend to think that being a dick will get you in hot water, so don’t be one. I’ve managed to get along just fine!
I mean all the things like helping a woman with a buggy down steps and getting a mouthful for
It. That kind of thing. Holding a door open and getting abuse. "Some women are complete cunts. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I’m so glad I’m not a man these days though. They can’t do right for doing wrong half the time.
It’s not specific to being a guy but I tend to think that being a dick will get you in hot water, so don’t be one. I’ve managed to get along just fine!
I mean all the things like helping a woman with a buggy down steps and getting a mouthful for
It. That kind of thing. Holding a door open and getting abuse.
I’ve done that and never had abuse, perhaps the issue is doing rather than asking? I’ve asked people if they need help rather than just doing it.
I’d be pissed if someone just assumed that I’m helpless just because of my gender, but offering assistance is kind.
Maybe that’s the catch?
I’m sorry why the hell do you need to ask regardless of the gender, just hold the door open it’s good manners
Accepting help doesn’t mean you look or are helpless in any setting just be mindful of overstepping when giving help "I wasn’t meaning the door, asking was in reference to offering help. Consent matters | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I hold a door open for everyone. " Me, too. I think perhaps people (men and women) who are not entirely comfortable in their own skim, their role as man/ woman/ mother/ father etc sometimes respond in a snappy way - those who are really secure would appreciate the gesture and acknowledge it. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I’m so glad I’m not a man these days though. They can’t do right for doing wrong half the time.
It’s not specific to being a guy but I tend to think that being a dick will get you in hot water, so don’t be one. I’ve managed to get along just fine!
I mean all the things like helping a woman with a buggy down steps and getting a mouthful for
It. That kind of thing. Holding a door open and getting abuse.
Some women are complete cunts."Agree. The one recently at work where a man held the door open for a woman carrying a tray of drinks. She kicked off reported it and he was called in and given a verbal warning! They probably thought she was a nutter too so why did they give him a warning? Coz they were too fucking scared not to that’s why. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I’m so glad I’m not a man these days though. They can’t do right for doing wrong half the time.
It’s not specific to being a guy but I tend to think that being a dick will get you in hot water, so don’t be one. I’ve managed to get along just fine!
I mean all the things like helping a woman with a buggy down steps and getting a mouthful for
It. That kind of thing. Holding a door open and getting abuse.
I’ve done that and never had abuse, perhaps the issue is doing rather than asking? I’ve asked people if they need help rather than just doing it.
I’d be pissed if someone just assumed that I’m helpless just because of my gender, but offering assistance is kind.
Maybe that’s the catch?
I’m sorry why the hell do you need to ask regardless of the gender, just hold the door open it’s good manners
Accepting help doesn’t mean you look or are helpless in any setting just be mindful of overstepping when giving help
I wasn’t meaning the door, asking was in reference to offering help.
Consent matters"I don’t think anyone has said they just help without being asked lol, for the record I ain’t picking up randoms buggy without being asked. Most women in my life regularly ask for my help carrying things. I joke with them that they are milking it, but I don’t get offended by it. I think my point originally is…. Intent | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I’m so glad I’m not a man these days though. They can’t do right for doing wrong half the time.
It’s not specific to being a guy but I tend to think that being a dick will get you in hot water, so don’t be one. I’ve managed to get along just fine!
I mean all the things like helping a woman with a buggy down steps and getting a mouthful for
It. That kind of thing. Holding a door open and getting abuse.
Some women are complete cunts.
Agree. The one recently at work where a man held the door open for a woman carrying a tray of drinks. She kicked off reported it and he was called in and given a verbal warning! They probably thought she was a nutter too so why did they give him a warning? Coz they were too fucking scared not to that’s why. "This is why I outright refuse to work with any women in the work place. It’s a minefield and ultimately when it’s their word against mine, I’m always gonna lose Had a run in 3 or 4 years ago and nearly lost my job. Gotta play it smart in the work place these days | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I’m so glad I’m not a man these days though. They can’t do right for doing wrong half the time.
It’s not specific to being a guy but I tend to think that being a dick will get you in hot water, so don’t be one. I’ve managed to get along just fine!
I mean all the things like helping a woman with a buggy down steps and getting a mouthful for
It. That kind of thing. Holding a door open and getting abuse.
Some women are complete cunts.
Agree. The one recently at work where a man held the door open for a woman carrying a tray of drinks. She kicked off reported it and he was called in and given a verbal warning! They probably thought she was a nutter too so why did they give him a warning? Coz they were too fucking scared not to that’s why.
This is why I outright refuse to work with any women in the work place. It’s a minefield and ultimately when it’s their word against mine, I’m always gonna lose
Had a run in 3 or 4 years ago and nearly lost my job. Gotta play it smart in the work place these days "I love working with women, they are gob shites and keep me entertained, I’ve never had issues with who I work with, but I’ve been fortunate that no one take our actions as anything other than work colleagues and friends. I guess our experiences mould our outlooks, I won’t stop holding a door if someone is behind me just because I’ve had someone be a bit offended. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I’m so glad I’m not a man these days though. They can’t do right for doing wrong half the time.
It’s not specific to being a guy but I tend to think that being a dick will get you in hot water, so don’t be one. I’ve managed to get along just fine!
I mean all the things like helping a woman with a buggy down steps and getting a mouthful for
It. That kind of thing. Holding a door open and getting abuse.
Some women are complete cunts.
Agree. The one recently at work where a man held the door open for a woman carrying a tray of drinks. She kicked off reported it and he was called in and given a verbal warning! They probably thought she was a nutter too so why did they give him a warning? Coz they were too fucking scared not to that’s why.
This is why I outright refuse to work with any women in the work place. It’s a minefield and ultimately when it’s their word against mine, I’m always gonna lose
Had a run in 3 or 4 years ago and nearly lost my job. Gotta play it smart in the work place these days "Isn’t that sexist in its own though? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I’m so glad I’m not a man these days though. They can’t do right for doing wrong half the time.
It’s not specific to being a guy but I tend to think that being a dick will get you in hot water, so don’t be one. I’ve managed to get along just fine!
I mean all the things like helping a woman with a buggy down steps and getting a mouthful for
It. That kind of thing. Holding a door open and getting abuse.
Some women are complete cunts.
Agree. The one recently at work where a man held the door open for a woman carrying a tray of drinks. She kicked off reported it and he was called in and given a verbal warning! They probably thought she was a nutter too so why did they give him a warning? Coz they were too fucking scared not to that’s why.
This is why I outright refuse to work with any women in the work place. It’s a minefield and ultimately when it’s their word against mine, I’m always gonna lose
Had a run in 3 or 4 years ago and nearly lost my job. Gotta play it smart in the work place these days "I don’t blame you to be honest. This is what I meant by I’m glad I’m not a man in this day and age. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I I love working with women, they are gob shites and keep me entertained, I’ve never had issues with who I work with, but I’ve been fortunate that no one take our actions as anything other than work colleagues and friends. I guess our experiences mould our outlooks, I won’t stop holding a door if someone is behind me just because I’ve had someone be a bit offended. " Wish everybody had this attitude at work  | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Is there a crisis in masculinity? Discuss ( by that I mean let’s try to keep it civil and not make personal attacks) " You would look great in tights and heels, try it. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I’m so glad I’m not a man these days though. They can’t do right for doing wrong half the time.
It’s not specific to being a guy but I tend to think that being a dick will get you in hot water, so don’t be one. I’ve managed to get along just fine!
I mean all the things like helping a woman with a buggy down steps and getting a mouthful for
It. That kind of thing. Holding a door open and getting abuse.
Some women are complete cunts.
Agree. The one recently at work where a man held the door open for a woman carrying a tray of drinks. She kicked off reported it and he was called in and given a verbal warning! They probably thought she was a nutter too so why did they give him a warning? Coz they were too fucking scared not to that’s why.
This is why I outright refuse to work with any women in the work place. It’s a minefield and ultimately when it’s their word against mine, I’m always gonna lose
Had a run in 3 or 4 years ago and nearly lost my job. Gotta play it smart in the work place these days
Isn’t that sexist in its own though? "Nope, because I’m protecting myself in a system why a woman’s word has priority over mine. It’s not because she’s a woman It’s because the system grants her word more power over mine. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It’s all me and the fellas at work can talk about, Brian thinks his tool belt makes his arse look big whenever he bends over and his crack is on display, he was talking seriously about buying a romper suit to hide it. Steve thinks hi viz does him no favours and makes him looked washed out and pale. Craig questioned whether he needs so many pockets in his work trousers and whether it’s just metaphor for all the other blokes he has to carry at work. " Craig sounds brilliant | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It’s all me and the fellas at work can talk about, Brian thinks his tool belt makes his arse look big whenever he bends over and his crack is on display, he was talking seriously about buying a romper suit to hide it. Steve thinks hi viz does him no favours and makes him looked washed out and pale. Craig questioned whether he needs so many pockets in his work trousers and whether it’s just metaphor for all the other blokes he has to carry at work. " cracked me up | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It’s all me and the fellas at work can talk about, Brian thinks his tool belt makes his arse look big whenever he bends over and his crack is on display, he was talking seriously about buying a romper suit to hide it. Steve thinks hi viz does him no favours and makes him looked washed out and pale. Craig questioned whether he needs so many pockets in his work trousers and whether it’s just metaphor for all the other blokes he has to carry at work. " | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I’m so glad I’m not a man these days though. They can’t do right for doing wrong half the time.
It’s not specific to being a guy but I tend to think that being a dick will get you in hot water, so don’t be one. I’ve managed to get along just fine!
I mean all the things like helping a woman with a buggy down steps and getting a mouthful for
It. That kind of thing. Holding a door open and getting abuse.
Some women are complete cunts.
Agree. The one recently at work where a man held the door open for a woman carrying a tray of drinks. She kicked off reported it and he was called in and given a verbal warning! They probably thought she was a nutter too so why did they give him a warning? Coz they were too fucking scared not to that’s why.
This is why I outright refuse to work with any women in the work place. It’s a minefield and ultimately when it’s their word against mine, I’m always gonna lose
Had a run in 3 or 4 years ago and nearly lost my job. Gotta play it smart in the work place these days
Isn’t that sexist in its own though?
Nope, because I’m protecting myself in a system why a woman’s word has priority over mine.
It’s not because she’s a woman
It’s because the system grants her word more power over mine."But common give the girls a break through out humanity they have been walked all over | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"My own humble point of view, just as in women's repression through the generations and breaking free from that, I also think that many men have had a similar situation where all their lives they've been taught to be a certain masculine way. Many were forced to hide their true desires and sexuality. Now we have a bigger sexual revilut than the 60's and much more acceptance. We burnt the bra, now it's time to burn the jock-Strap "I'd agree | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It’s all me and the fellas at work can talk about, Brian thinks his tool belt makes his arse look big whenever he bends over and his crack is on display, he was talking seriously about buying a romper suit to hide it. Steve thinks hi viz does him no favours and makes him looked washed out and pale. Craig questioned whether he needs so many pockets in his work trousers and whether it’s just metaphor for all the other blokes he has to carry at work. " ...but what do you join in to moan with?! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I’m so glad I’m not a man these days though. They can’t do right for doing wrong half the time.
It’s not specific to being a guy but I tend to think that being a dick will get you in hot water, so don’t be one. I’ve managed to get along just fine!
I mean all the things like helping a woman with a buggy down steps and getting a mouthful for
It. That kind of thing. Holding a door open and getting abuse.
I’ve done that and never had abuse, perhaps the issue is doing rather than asking? I’ve asked people if they need help rather than just doing it.
I’d be pissed if someone just assumed that I’m helpless just because of my gender, but offering assistance is kind.
Maybe that’s the catch?
I’m sorry why the hell do you need to ask regardless of the gender, just hold the door open it’s good manners
Accepting help doesn’t mean you look or are helpless in any setting just be mindful of overstepping when giving help
I wasn’t meaning the door, asking was in reference to offering help.
Consent matters"Of course it matters I’ve seen the tea video
I really don’t understand what is so offensive about someone offering help. You can say no whether it’s been offered because you’re a woman or not. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I’m so glad I’m not a man these days though. They can’t do right for doing wrong half the time.
It’s not specific to being a guy but I tend to think that being a dick will get you in hot water, so don’t be one. I’ve managed to get along just fine!
I mean all the things like helping a woman with a buggy down steps and getting a mouthful for
It. That kind of thing. Holding a door open and getting abuse.
Some women are complete cunts.
Agree. The one recently at work where a man held the door open for a woman carrying a tray of drinks. She kicked off reported it and he was called in and given a verbal warning! They probably thought she was a nutter too so why did they give him a warning? Coz they were too fucking scared not to that’s why.
This is why I outright refuse to work with any women in the work place. It’s a minefield and ultimately when it’s their word against mine, I’m always gonna lose
Had a run in 3 or 4 years ago and nearly lost my job. Gotta play it smart in the work place these days
Isn’t that sexist in its own though?
Nope, because I’m protecting myself in a system why a woman’s word has priority over mine.
It’s not because she’s a woman
It’s because the system grants her word more power over mine.
But common give the girls a break through out humanity they have been walked all over"I don’t agree that they’ve been walked all over And even if they had, I don’t agree that gives them the ability to have their word believed over mine | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I’m so glad I’m not a man these days though. They can’t do right for doing wrong half the time.
It’s not specific to being a guy but I tend to think that being a dick will get you in hot water, so don’t be one. I’ve managed to get along just fine!
I mean all the things like helping a woman with a buggy down steps and getting a mouthful for
It. That kind of thing. Holding a door open and getting abuse.
Some women are complete cunts.
Agree. The one recently at work where a man held the door open for a woman carrying a tray of drinks. She kicked off reported it and he was called in and given a verbal warning! They probably thought she was a nutter too so why did they give him a warning? Coz they were too fucking scared not to that’s why.
This is why I outright refuse to work with any women in the work place. It’s a minefield and ultimately when it’s their word against mine, I’m always gonna lose
Had a run in 3 or 4 years ago and nearly lost my job. Gotta play it smart in the work place these days
Isn’t that sexist in its own though?
Nope, because I’m protecting myself in a system why a woman’s word has priority over mine.
It’s not because she’s a woman
It’s because the system grants her word more power over mine.
But common give the girls a break through out humanity they have been walked all over
I don’t agree that they’ve been walked all over
And even if they had, I don’t agree that gives them the ability to have their word believed over mine "Nah i agree you're word should be equal. But woman thougout history have defiantly had it hard | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I’m so glad I’m not a man these days though. They can’t do right for doing wrong half the time.
It’s not specific to being a guy but I tend to think that being a dick will get you in hot water, so don’t be one. I’ve managed to get along just fine!
I mean all the things like helping a woman with a buggy down steps and getting a mouthful for
It. That kind of thing. Holding a door open and getting abuse.
I’ve done that and never had abuse, perhaps the issue is doing rather than asking? I’ve asked people if they need help rather than just doing it.
I’d be pissed if someone just assumed that I’m helpless just because of my gender, but offering assistance is kind.
Maybe that’s the catch?
I’m sorry why the hell do you need to ask regardless of the gender, just hold the door open it’s good manners
Accepting help doesn’t mean you look or are helpless in any setting just be mindful of overstepping when giving help
I wasn’t meaning the door, asking was in reference to offering help.
Consent matters
Of course it matters I’ve seen the tea video
I really don’t understand what is so offensive about someone offering help. You can say no whether it’s been offered because you’re a woman or not. "It’s not offensive, only to these extreme feminist women it is. They like to make a point. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"My own humble point of view, just as in women's repression through the generations and breaking free from that, I also think that many men have had a similar situation where all their lives they've been taught to be a certain masculine way. Many were forced to hide their true desires and sexuality. Now we have a bigger sexual revilut than the 60's and much more acceptance. We burnt the bra, now it's time to burn the jock-Strap "Absolutely | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The topic seems to be moving away from masculine and femininity. However on the sexist front, some attitudes of some are pushing things towards being scared of being polite for being accused of being sexist. As is stated above. It is a minefield. One that can have serious consequences for nothing more than being polite. A few times I've had to pause to think if I'm being sexist by offering to help with something. I'm happy to help, but it's starting to become a very grey area. " | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The topic seems to be moving away from masculine and femininity. However on the sexist front, some attitudes of some are pushing things towards being scared of being polite for being accused of being sexist. As is stated above. It is a minefield. One that can have serious consequences for nothing more than being polite. A few times I've had to pause to think if I'm being sexist by offering to help with something. I'm happy to help, but it's starting to become a very grey area. " I agree that it’s getting sidetracked. Who knew that holding doors was such a hot topic?! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Isn't it strange that a thread on masculinity as often does on here, turn into what women do wrong. There are many things I think women do wrong that can erode a males sense of place in the world. Such as emotional abuse, you're not a real man if you don't do xyz for example. I really don't think holding doors in the real issue to why men can feel emasculated. " I think it was me who mentioned that, not a man. I think it was a valid comment too | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I’m so glad I’m not a man these days though. They can’t do right for doing wrong half the time.
It’s not specific to being a guy but I tend to think that being a dick will get you in hot water, so don’t be one. I’ve managed to get along just fine!
I mean all the things like helping a woman with a buggy down steps and getting a mouthful for
It. That kind of thing. Holding a door open and getting abuse.
Some women are complete cunts.
Agree. The one recently at work where a man held the door open for a woman carrying a tray of drinks. She kicked off reported it and he was called in and given a verbal warning! They probably thought she was a nutter too so why did they give him a warning? Coz they were too fucking scared not to that’s why.
This is why I outright refuse to work with any women in the work place. It’s a minefield and ultimately when it’s their word against mine, I’m always gonna lose
Had a run in 3 or 4 years ago and nearly lost my job. Gotta play it smart in the work place these days
Isn’t that sexist in its own though?
Nope, because I’m protecting myself in a system why a woman’s word has priority over mine.
It’s not because she’s a woman
It’s because the system grants her word more power over mine.
But common give the girls a break through out humanity they have been walked all over
I don’t agree that they’ve been walked all over
And even if they had, I don’t agree that gives them the ability to have their word believed over mine
Nah i agree you're word should be equal. But woman thougout history have defiantly had it hard"That’s a very simple view of history as a whole and doesn’t really paint the entire picture. They’ve definitely had it extremely hard since the industrial revolution, and probably for a while before that, but not “thought out history” as a whole | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Isn't it strange that a thread on masculinity as often does on here, turn into what women do wrong. There are many things I think women do wrong that can erode a males sense of place in the world. Such as emotional abuse, you're not a real man if you don't do xyz for example. I really don't think holding doors in the real issue to why men can feel emasculated. " Because no side is innocent. That's why. Male, female, man, woman, whatever. We are all still people. Things start somewhere, no matter how small, and when you have to start question when being polite could result in being accused of wrongful intent. If things continue as such people will stop being polite full stop because it won't be worth the effort or consequences. It is not about what women do wrong, there will be men that agree with certain women that xyz is sexist. It is about a challenge against a view that is harming good intentions. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
 | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Isn't it strange that a thread on masculinity as often does on here, turn into what women do wrong. There are many things I think women do wrong that can erode a males sense of place in the world. Such as emotional abuse, you're not a real man if you don't do xyz for example. I really don't think holding doors in the real issue to why men can feel emasculated. I think it was me who mentioned that, not a man. I think it was a valid comment too "Maybe I'm in different kind of circles, but I've never seen a woman tell a man off for keeping a door open. And even if they do, how does that make a man feel emasculated. Surely as I would do utter twat in my brain and get on with my day? I hold doors open for everyone, my favourite is keeping them open to mates when they are really far away so they have to do that awkward jog | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Isn't it strange that a thread on masculinity as often does on here, turn into what women do wrong. There are many things I think women do wrong that can erode a males sense of place in the world. Such as emotional abuse, you're not a real man if you don't do xyz for example. I really don't think holding doors in the real issue to why men can feel emasculated. Because no side is innocent. That's why. Male, female, man, woman, whatever. We are all still people. Things start somewhere, no matter how small, and when you have to start question when being polite could result in being accused of wrongful intent. If things continue as such people will stop being polite full stop because it won't be worth the effort or consequences. It is not about what women do wrong, there will be men that agree with certain women that xyz is sexist. It is about a challenge against a view that is harming good intentions. " God you say what I’m thinking so much better than me. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Isn't it strange that a thread on masculinity as often does on here, turn into what women do wrong. There are many things I think women do wrong that can erode a males sense of place in the world. Such as emotional abuse, you're not a real man if you don't do xyz for example. I really don't think holding doors in the real issue to why men can feel emasculated. " I don’t think that the thread has turned into what women do wrong, I think that if we’re discussing gender, then it’s hard to discuss one side without the other | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Isn't it strange that a thread on masculinity as often does on here, turn into what women do wrong. There are many things I think women do wrong that can erode a males sense of place in the world. Such as emotional abuse, you're not a real man if you don't do xyz for example. I really don't think holding doors in the real issue to why men can feel emasculated. Because no side is innocent. That's why. Male, female, man, woman, whatever. We are all still people. Things start somewhere, no matter how small, and when you have to start question when being polite could result in being accused of wrongful intent. If things continue as such people will stop being polite full stop because it won't be worth the effort or consequences. It is not about what women do wrong, there will be men that agree with certain women that xyz is sexist. It is about a challenge against a view that is harming good intentions. " This is a strongpoint. I hate to admit it. But I wouldn’t stop to help a woman change a tyre. 10 years ago I would. But not now. She could say anything. I have everything to lose and nothing to gain by helping a stranger | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
 . | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"To bring it back in track I was wrong earlier when I said I thought masculinity is under attack I don’t think true masculinity is. Because I think even though we can’t pin down what that is, we all know when we see it, and guys like that can’t be attacked. They’re a rare breed and they’re the type of guy everyone wants in their life I think there’s a lot of fake masculinity. Fake tough guy actors. Guy that think being masculine is fighting or being tough or whatever That’s under attack, and rightly so Real masculinity isn’t " Even though you can’t define it and only label it as ‘know it when you see it’? That’s remarkably vague and subjective, which is a large part of the problem | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Isn't it strange that a thread on masculinity as often does on here, turn into what women do wrong. There are many things I think women do wrong that can erode a males sense of place in the world. Such as emotional abuse, you're not a real man if you don't do xyz for example. I really don't think holding doors in the real issue to why men can feel emasculated. " I think to some degree the decline in heavy industry type jobs (steel, coal etc) that would be traditionally very male dominated has contributed to that sense. Many of the more modern job types that have been replaced are more equally suited and and often where ladies tend to outshine the gentlemen. Not saying that a lady can’t work in steel or down a coal mine any more than a bloke can’t run a call centre or whatever. But there are many complex societal changes over the last few decades that have upset the traditional dynamic. Some have struggled more than other to adapt. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Isn't it strange that a thread on masculinity as often does on here, turn into what women do wrong. There are many things I think women do wrong that can erode a males sense of place in the world. Such as emotional abuse, you're not a real man if you don't do xyz for example. I really don't think holding doors in the real issue to why men can feel emasculated. Because no side is innocent. That's why. Male, female, man, woman, whatever. We are all still people. Things start somewhere, no matter how small, and when you have to start question when being polite could result in being accused of wrongful intent. If things continue as such people will stop being polite full stop because it won't be worth the effort or consequences. It is not about what women do wrong, there will be men that agree with certain women that xyz is sexist. It is about a challenge against a view that is harming good intentions. " I hear you, I was guilty of saying grow a pair when I was younger. I shudder at that thought now as I know better. We should most definitely discuss behaviour that is unacceptable. Surely it would be better than all genders were taught to hold doors open to each other, rather than it being a male thing to do as it's just polite? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Weirdly I think it's moving in both directions simultaneously. I think many have less hang ups about "what it means to be a man" and are living their lives authentically as themselves and celebrating the rich variety of masculinity. Sadly I think there are still some though that are clinging to a more old fashioned and rigid view of masculinity. Not in a "I like this for myself but others are free to be who they are" way though and as a result, they're finding other people expressing their own masculinity in a different way as somehow a threat to their own and its turning them into quite angry people. There's also those who feel they don't live up to "masculine ideals" and really struggle as a result even though they're wonderful just the way they are . "Nicely put. That dovetails with what I said earlier about gender models not keeping up with the modern roles and people feeling lost or disenfranchised because they don’t know what it actually means, so stick to a stereotype or behaviour tropes. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Weirdly I think it's moving in both directions simultaneously. I think many have less hang ups about "what it means to be a man" and are living their lives authentically as themselves and celebrating the rich variety of masculinity. Sadly I think there are still some though that are clinging to a more old fashioned and rigid view of masculinity. Not in a "I like this for myself but others are free to be who they are" way though and as a result, they're finding other people expressing their own masculinity in a different way as somehow a threat to their own and its turning them into quite angry people. There's also those who feel they don't live up to "masculine ideals" and really struggle as a result even though they're wonderful just the way they are . "Agreed | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"To bring it back in track I was wrong earlier when I said I thought masculinity is under attack I don’t think true masculinity is. Because I think even though we can’t pin down what that is, we all know when we see it, and guys like that can’t be attacked. They’re a rare breed and they’re the type of guy everyone wants in their life I think there’s a lot of fake masculinity. Fake tough guy actors. Guy that think being masculine is fighting or being tough or whatever That’s under attack, and rightly so Real masculinity isn’t Even though you can’t define it and only label it as ‘know it when you see it’? That’s remarkably vague and subjective, which is a large part of the problem " What’s the problem? Are we trying to define what it is so we can decide if it’s under attack or now? I guess I could try to define it, but I think someone’s with people there’s more of a feeling you get about things you can’t put into words. And I think masculinity and femininity are those things. I don’t think you can compress a person into a check list and if they get 7/10 or more points they pass. I think we’ve evolved for millions of years to have these gut instincts about people. The way they talk, their body language, how they hold themselves under pressure, all things we can put words too. I think if we want to define it to see if it’s under attack I think it purely comes down to are they a good person. Because I think people that are masculine or feminine have a few things in common, the main one being they’re a good person at their core. I don’t think being a good person will ever be under attack | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Isn't it strange that a thread on masculinity as often does on here, turn into what women do wrong. There are many things I think women do wrong that can erode a males sense of place in the world. Such as emotional abuse, you're not a real man if you don't do xyz for example. I really don't think holding doors in the real issue to why men can feel emasculated. Because no side is innocent. That's why. Male, female, man, woman, whatever. We are all still people. Things start somewhere, no matter how small, and when you have to start question when being polite could result in being accused of wrongful intent. If things continue as such people will stop being polite full stop because it won't be worth the effort or consequences. It is not about what women do wrong, there will be men that agree with certain women that xyz is sexist. It is about a challenge against a view that is harming good intentions. I hear you, I was guilty of saying grow a pair when I was younger. I shudder at that thought now as I know better. We should most definitely discuss behaviour that is unacceptable. Surely it would be better than all genders were taught to hold doors open to each other, rather than it being a male thing to do as it's just polite? " I do though. Most people I know do but there are women who don’t like it. There’s women on this thread who have said that before! That’s what I don’t understand. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Isn't it strange that a thread on masculinity as often does on here, turn into what women do wrong. There are many things I think women do wrong that can erode a males sense of place in the world. Such as emotional abuse, you're not a real man if you don't do xyz for example. I really don't think holding doors in the real issue to why men can feel emasculated. Because no side is innocent. That's why. Male, female, man, woman, whatever. We are all still people. Things start somewhere, no matter how small, and when you have to start question when being polite could result in being accused of wrongful intent. If things continue as such people will stop being polite full stop because it won't be worth the effort or consequences. It is not about what women do wrong, there will be men that agree with certain women that xyz is sexist. It is about a challenge against a view that is harming good intentions. I hear you, I was guilty of saying grow a pair when I was younger. I shudder at that thought now as I know better. We should most definitely discuss behaviour that is unacceptable. Surely it would be better than all genders were taught to hold doors open to each other, rather than it being a male thing to do as it's just polite? I do though. Most people I know do but there are women who don’t like it. There’s women on this thread who have said that before! That’s what I don’t understand. " People like and dislike all sorts of things for all sorts of reasons. I don't like it, but I don't want to derail. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Isn't it strange that a thread on masculinity as often does on here, turn into what women do wrong. There are many things I think women do wrong that can erode a males sense of place in the world. Such as emotional abuse, you're not a real man if you don't do xyz for example. I really don't think holding doors in the real issue to why men can feel emasculated. Because no side is innocent. That's why. Male, female, man, woman, whatever. We are all still people. Things start somewhere, no matter how small, and when you have to start question when being polite could result in being accused of wrongful intent. If things continue as such people will stop being polite full stop because it won't be worth the effort or consequences. It is not about what women do wrong, there will be men that agree with certain women that xyz is sexist. It is about a challenge against a view that is harming good intentions. I hear you, I was guilty of saying grow a pair when I was younger. I shudder at that thought now as I know better. We should most definitely discuss behaviour that is unacceptable. Surely it would be better than all genders were taught to hold doors open to each other, rather than it being a male thing to do as it's just polite? " I don’t understand why it’s a gendered thing, manners are universal. I do wonder though how many of these ‘guys being abused for holding doors’ stories are genuine or whether they’re anti feminist rhetoric, just like the push back against harassment of ‘we won’t be able to do anything soon’, neither of which seem to have reliable sources beyond anecdotal at best | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Isn't it strange that a thread on masculinity as often does on here, turn into what women do wrong. There are many things I think women do wrong that can erode a males sense of place in the world. Such as emotional abuse, you're not a real man if you don't do xyz for example. I really don't think holding doors in the real issue to why men can feel emasculated. Because no side is innocent. That's why. Male, female, man, woman, whatever. We are all still people. Things start somewhere, no matter how small, and when you have to start question when being polite could result in being accused of wrongful intent. If things continue as such people will stop being polite full stop because it won't be worth the effort or consequences. It is not about what women do wrong, there will be men that agree with certain women that xyz is sexist. It is about a challenge against a view that is harming good intentions. I hear you, I was guilty of saying grow a pair when I was younger. I shudder at that thought now as I know better. We should most definitely discuss behaviour that is unacceptable. Surely it would be better than all genders were taught to hold doors open to each other, rather than it being a male thing to do as it's just polite? I do though. Most people I know do but there are women who don’t like it. There’s women on this thread who have said that before! That’s what I don’t understand. People like and dislike all sorts of things for all sorts of reasons. I don't like it, but I don't want to derail." I don’t think it is de-railing I think it’s relevant to the topic. Why don’t you like it? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Isn't it strange that a thread on masculinity as often does on here, turn into what women do wrong. There are many things I think women do wrong that can erode a males sense of place in the world. Such as emotional abuse, you're not a real man if you don't do xyz for example. I really don't think holding doors in the real issue to why men can feel emasculated. Because no side is innocent. That's why. Male, female, man, woman, whatever. We are all still people. Things start somewhere, no matter how small, and when you have to start question when being polite could result in being accused of wrongful intent. If things continue as such people will stop being polite full stop because it won't be worth the effort or consequences. It is not about what women do wrong, there will be men that agree with certain women that xyz is sexist. It is about a challenge against a view that is harming good intentions. I hear you, I was guilty of saying grow a pair when I was younger. I shudder at that thought now as I know better. We should most definitely discuss behaviour that is unacceptable. Surely it would be better than all genders were taught to hold doors open to each other, rather than it being a male thing to do as it's just polite? I do though. Most people I know do but there are women who don’t like it. There’s women on this thread who have said that before! That’s what I don’t understand. " That I don't understand, I was taught to keep doors open because it's polite. I've worked most of my career with men. I sometimes have to ask them to help me with loosening a bolt from a machine. I give it a damn good try and if I can't budge it I've haven't got an issue asking them to do it for me. They are stronger than me end of and I want to get the job done. It doesn't make me weak to ask for help or undermines my capabilities. They are better than me at something and I know I'm better than them in other things. We all have different skill sets. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"To bring it back in track I was wrong earlier when I said I thought masculinity is under attack I don’t think true masculinity is. Because I think even though we can’t pin down what that is, we all know when we see it, and guys like that can’t be attacked. They’re a rare breed and they’re the type of guy everyone wants in their life I think there’s a lot of fake masculinity. Fake tough guy actors. Guy that think being masculine is fighting or being tough or whatever That’s under attack, and rightly so Real masculinity isn’t Even though you can’t define it and only label it as ‘know it when you see it’? That’s remarkably vague and subjective, which is a large part of the problem What’s the problem? Are we trying to define what it is so we can decide if it’s under attack or now? I guess I could try to define it, but I think someone’s with people there’s more of a feeling you get about things you can’t put into words. And I think masculinity and femininity are those things. I don’t think you can compress a person into a check list and if they get 7/10 or more points they pass. I think we’ve evolved for millions of years to have these gut instincts about people. The way they talk, their body language, how they hold themselves under pressure, all things we can put words too. I think if we want to define it to see if it’s under attack I think it purely comes down to are they a good person. Because I think people that are masculine or feminine have a few things in common, the main one being they’re a good person at their core. I don’t think being a good person will ever be under attack " Well if you did stop to give me road side assistance I might also need the kiss of life  | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"To bring it back in track I was wrong earlier when I said I thought masculinity is under attack I don’t think true masculinity is. Because I think even though we can’t pin down what that is, we all know when we see it, and guys like that can’t be attacked. They’re a rare breed and they’re the type of guy everyone wants in their life I think there’s a lot of fake masculinity. Fake tough guy actors. Guy that think being masculine is fighting or being tough or whatever That’s under attack, and rightly so Real masculinity isn’t Even though you can’t define it and only label it as ‘know it when you see it’? That’s remarkably vague and subjective, which is a large part of the problem What’s the problem? Are we trying to define what it is so we can decide if it’s under attack or now? I guess I could try to define it, but I think someone’s with people there’s more of a feeling you get about things you can’t put into words. And I think masculinity and femininity are those things. I don’t think you can compress a person into a check list and if they get 7/10 or more points they pass. I think we’ve evolved for millions of years to have these gut instincts about people. The way they talk, their body language, how they hold themselves under pressure, all things we can put words too. I think if we want to define it to see if it’s under attack I think it purely comes down to are they a good person. Because I think people that are masculine or feminine have a few things in common, the main one being they’re a good person at their core. I don’t think being a good person will ever be under attack " If we’re going to answer the question, then yes it does need definition beyond a feeling. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Isn't it strange that a thread on masculinity as often does on here, turn into what women do wrong. There are many things I think women do wrong that can erode a males sense of place in the world. Such as emotional abuse, you're not a real man if you don't do xyz for example. I really don't think holding doors in the real issue to why men can feel emasculated. Because no side is innocent. That's why. Male, female, man, woman, whatever. We are all still people. Things start somewhere, no matter how small, and when you have to start question when being polite could result in being accused of wrongful intent. If things continue as such people will stop being polite full stop because it won't be worth the effort or consequences. It is not about what women do wrong, there will be men that agree with certain women that xyz is sexist. It is about a challenge against a view that is harming good intentions. I hear you, I was guilty of saying grow a pair when I was younger. I shudder at that thought now as I know better. We should most definitely discuss behaviour that is unacceptable. Surely it would be better than all genders were taught to hold doors open to each other, rather than it being a male thing to do as it's just polite? I do though. Most people I know do but there are women who don’t like it. There’s women on this thread who have said that before! That’s what I don’t understand. That I don't understand, I was taught to keep doors open because it's polite. I've worked most of my career with men. I sometimes have to ask them to help me with loosening a bolt from a machine. I give it a damn good try and if I can't budge it I've haven't got an issue asking them to do it for me. They are stronger than me end of and I want to get the job done. It doesn't make me weak to ask for help or undermines my capabilities. They are better than me at something and I know I'm better than them in other things. We all have different skill sets. " Absolutely agree. Men are generally physically stronger than women. You can’t argue with facts. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Isn't it strange that a thread on masculinity as often does on here, turn into what women do wrong. There are many things I think women do wrong that can erode a males sense of place in the world. Such as emotional abuse, you're not a real man if you don't do xyz for example. I really don't think holding doors in the real issue to why men can feel emasculated. Because no side is innocent. That's why. Male, female, man, woman, whatever. We are all still people. Things start somewhere, no matter how small, and when you have to start question when being polite could result in being accused of wrongful intent. If things continue as such people will stop being polite full stop because it won't be worth the effort or consequences. It is not about what women do wrong, there will be men that agree with certain women that xyz is sexist. It is about a challenge against a view that is harming good intentions. I hear you, I was guilty of saying grow a pair when I was younger. I shudder at that thought now as I know better. We should most definitely discuss behaviour that is unacceptable. Surely it would be better than all genders were taught to hold doors open to each other, rather than it being a male thing to do as it's just polite? I do though. Most people I know do but there are women who don’t like it. There’s women on this thread who have said that before! That’s what I don’t understand. People like and dislike all sorts of things for all sorts of reasons. I don't like it, but I don't want to derail. I don’t think it is de-railing I think it’s relevant to the topic. Why don’t you like it? " I like manners. I dislike traditional displays of old fashioned manners. It has no place in my life and I am not that little lady. And if it happens, I smile and say thank you. If I think it might be a repeat occurrence, I explain why I feel the way I feel, I reassure them it's not personal and there are no hard feelings, just please don't. I also ask people who cook for me to leave out coriander, because to me it tastes like soap. If I find coriander, I try to eat around it. I'm not attacking anyone as a cook, I'm not attacking anyone as a man. I just have preferences. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Isn't it strange that a thread on masculinity as often does on here, turn into what women do wrong. There are many things I think women do wrong that can erode a males sense of place in the world. Such as emotional abuse, you're not a real man if you don't do xyz for example. I really don't think holding doors in the real issue to why men can feel emasculated. Because no side is innocent. That's why. Male, female, man, woman, whatever. We are all still people. Things start somewhere, no matter how small, and when you have to start question when being polite could result in being accused of wrongful intent. If things continue as such people will stop being polite full stop because it won't be worth the effort or consequences. It is not about what women do wrong, there will be men that agree with certain women that xyz is sexist. It is about a challenge against a view that is harming good intentions. I hear you, I was guilty of saying grow a pair when I was younger. I shudder at that thought now as I know better. We should most definitely discuss behaviour that is unacceptable. Surely it would be better than all genders were taught to hold doors open to each other, rather than it being a male thing to do as it's just polite? I do though. Most people I know do but there are women who don’t like it. There’s women on this thread who have said that before! That’s what I don’t understand. People like and dislike all sorts of things for all sorts of reasons. I don't like it, but I don't want to derail." Why don’t you like it? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"To bring it back in track I was wrong earlier when I said I thought masculinity is under attack I don’t think true masculinity is. Because I think even though we can’t pin down what that is, we all know when we see it, and guys like that can’t be attacked. They’re a rare breed and they’re the type of guy everyone wants in their life I think there’s a lot of fake masculinity. Fake tough guy actors. Guy that think being masculine is fighting or being tough or whatever That’s under attack, and rightly so Real masculinity isn’t Even though you can’t define it and only label it as ‘know it when you see it’? That’s remarkably vague and subjective, which is a large part of the problem What’s the problem? Are we trying to define what it is so we can decide if it’s under attack or now? I guess I could try to define it, but I think someone’s with people there’s more of a feeling you get about things you can’t put into words. And I think masculinity and femininity are those things. I don’t think you can compress a person into a check list and if they get 7/10 or more points they pass. I think we’ve evolved for millions of years to have these gut instincts about people. The way they talk, their body language, how they hold themselves under pressure, all things we can put words too. I think if we want to define it to see if it’s under attack I think it purely comes down to are they a good person. Because I think people that are masculine or feminine have a few things in common, the main one being they’re a good person at their core. I don’t think being a good person will ever be under attack If we’re going to answer the question, then yes it does need definition beyond a feeling. " Then I guess my answer is you’ll never know, because you can’t define these things. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Weirdly I think it's moving in both directions simultaneously. I think many have less hang ups about "what it means to be a man" and are living their lives authentically as themselves and celebrating the rich variety of masculinity. Sadly I think there are still some though that are clinging to a more old fashioned and rigid view of masculinity. Not in a "I like this for myself but others are free to be who they are" way though and as a result, they're finding other people expressing their own masculinity in a different way as somehow a threat to their own and its turning them into quite angry people. There's also those who feel they don't live up to "masculine ideals" and really struggle as a result even though they're wonderful just the way they are .
Nicely put.
That dovetails with what I said earlier about gender models not keeping up with the modern roles and people feeling lost or disenfranchised because they don’t know what it actually means, so stick to a stereotype or behaviour tropes.
"Yep. The funny thing though is masculinity can be whatever you want it to be. There's only so much need to define it because of the pressure to express it in "acceptable ways". To live up to expectations and not be mocked. We don't all have to fit the same model. Women can be feminine in high heels or military boots and trousers. They can be feminine with long or short hair. Lots of make up or a natural look. They can be shy and reserved or they can be can be confident and ambitious. Things certainly aren't perfect for women and butch/androgynous appearing women can still get a lot of hate and there's still a lot of pressures on women to meet certain "ideals" but I guess in many ways we've gone through a lot of that transition period of redefining "femininity" and dealing with the discomfort and infighting as many resist change even though those changes are not compulsory for all to take up. Maybe that's the period that men are in now. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Weirdly I think it's moving in both directions simultaneously. I think many have less hang ups about "what it means to be a man" and are living their lives authentically as themselves and celebrating the rich variety of masculinity. Sadly I think there are still some though that are clinging to a more old fashioned and rigid view of masculinity. Not in a "I like this for myself but others are free to be who they are" way though and as a result, they're finding other people expressing their own masculinity in a different way as somehow a threat to their own and its turning them into quite angry people. There's also those who feel they don't live up to "masculine ideals" and really struggle as a result even though they're wonderful just the way they are .
Nicely put.
That dovetails with what I said earlier about gender models not keeping up with the modern roles and people feeling lost or disenfranchised because they don’t know what it actually means, so stick to a stereotype or behaviour tropes.
Yep. The funny thing though is masculinity can be whatever you want it to be. There's only so much need to define it because of the pressure to express it in "acceptable ways". To live up to expectations and not be mocked. We don't all have to fit the same model. Women can be feminine in high heels or military boots and trousers. They can be feminine with long or short hair. Lots of make up or a natural look. They can be shy and reserved or they can be can be confident and ambitious. Things certainly aren't perfect for women and butch/androgynous appearing women can still get a lot of hate and there's still a lot of pressures on women to meet certain "ideals" but I guess in many ways we've gone through a lot of that transition period of redefining "femininity" and dealing with the discomfort and infighting as many resist change even though those changes are not compulsory for all to take up. Maybe that's the period that men are in now. "Yes, I think this is very much the case. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Isn't it strange that a thread on masculinity as often does on here, turn into what women do wrong. There are many things I think women do wrong that can erode a males sense of place in the world. Such as emotional abuse, you're not a real man if you don't do xyz for example. I really don't think holding doors in the real issue to why men can feel emasculated. Because no side is innocent. That's why. Male, female, man, woman, whatever. We are all still people. Things start somewhere, no matter how small, and when you have to start question when being polite could result in being accused of wrongful intent. If things continue as such people will stop being polite full stop because it won't be worth the effort or consequences. It is not about what women do wrong, there will be men that agree with certain women that xyz is sexist. It is about a challenge against a view that is harming good intentions. I hear you, I was guilty of saying grow a pair when I was younger. I shudder at that thought now as I know better. We should most definitely discuss behaviour that is unacceptable. Surely it would be better than all genders were taught to hold doors open to each other, rather than it being a male thing to do as it's just polite? I do though. Most people I know do but there are women who don’t like it. There’s women on this thread who have said that before! That’s what I don’t understand. People like and dislike all sorts of things for all sorts of reasons. I don't like it, but I don't want to derail. I don’t think it is de-railing I think it’s relevant to the topic. Why don’t you like it? I like manners. I dislike traditional displays of old fashioned manners. It has no place in my life and I am not that little lady. And if it happens, I smile and say thank you. If I think it might be a repeat occurrence, I explain why I feel the way I feel, I reassure them it's not personal and there are no hard feelings, just please don't. I also ask people who cook for me to leave out coriander, because to me it tastes like soap. If I find coriander, I try to eat around it. I'm not attacking anyone as a cook, I'm not attacking anyone as a man. I just have preferences. " So if a woman continually held the door open for you you wouldn’t have an issue? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Isn't it strange that a thread on masculinity as often does on here, turn into what women do wrong. There are many things I think women do wrong that can erode a males sense of place in the world. Such as emotional abuse, you're not a real man if you don't do xyz for example. I really don't think holding doors in the real issue to why men can feel emasculated. Because no side is innocent. That's why. Male, female, man, woman, whatever. We are all still people. Things start somewhere, no matter how small, and when you have to start question when being polite could result in being accused of wrongful intent. If things continue as such people will stop being polite full stop because it won't be worth the effort or consequences. It is not about what women do wrong, there will be men that agree with certain women that xyz is sexist. It is about a challenge against a view that is harming good intentions. I hear you, I was guilty of saying grow a pair when I was younger. I shudder at that thought now as I know better. We should most definitely discuss behaviour that is unacceptable. Surely it would be better than all genders were taught to hold doors open to each other, rather than it being a male thing to do as it's just polite? I do though. Most people I know do but there are women who don’t like it. There’s women on this thread who have said that before! That’s what I don’t understand. That I don't understand, I was taught to keep doors open because it's polite. I've worked most of my career with men. I sometimes have to ask them to help me with loosening a bolt from a machine. I give it a damn good try and if I can't budge it I've haven't got an issue asking them to do it for me. They are stronger than me end of and I want to get the job done. It doesn't make me weak to ask for help or undermines my capabilities. They are better than me at something and I know I'm better than them in other things. We all have different skill sets. Absolutely agree. Men are generally physically stronger than women. You can’t argue with facts. " I’m glad that we got that straightened out at least!
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Isn't it strange that a thread on masculinity as often does on here, turn into what women do wrong. There are many things I think women do wrong that can erode a males sense of place in the world. Such as emotional abuse, you're not a real man if you don't do xyz for example. I really don't think holding doors in the real issue to why men can feel emasculated. Because no side is innocent. That's why. Male, female, man, woman, whatever. We are all still people. Things start somewhere, no matter how small, and when you have to start question when being polite could result in being accused of wrongful intent. If things continue as such people will stop being polite full stop because it won't be worth the effort or consequences. It is not about what women do wrong, there will be men that agree with certain women that xyz is sexist. It is about a challenge against a view that is harming good intentions. I hear you, I was guilty of saying grow a pair when I was younger. I shudder at that thought now as I know better. We should most definitely discuss behaviour that is unacceptable. Surely it would be better than all genders were taught to hold doors open to each other, rather than it being a male thing to do as it's just polite? I do though. Most people I know do but there are women who don’t like it. There’s women on this thread who have said that before! That’s what I don’t understand. People like and dislike all sorts of things for all sorts of reasons. I don't like it, but I don't want to derail. I don’t think it is de-railing I think it’s relevant to the topic. Why don’t you like it? I like manners. I dislike traditional displays of old fashioned manners. It has no place in my life and I am not that little lady. And if it happens, I smile and say thank you. If I think it might be a repeat occurrence, I explain why I feel the way I feel, I reassure them it's not personal and there are no hard feelings, just please don't. I also ask people who cook for me to leave out coriander, because to me it tastes like soap. If I find coriander, I try to eat around it. I'm not attacking anyone as a cook, I'm not attacking anyone as a man. I just have preferences. So if a woman continually held the door open for you you wouldn’t have an issue? " Nope. It doesn't have the same cultural connotations. I mean, I suppose she could also make it weird in other ways - and if she did I'd also have a polite conversation asking her not to. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I'm not sure what you mean, but I definitely belive a man's masculinity needs to be checked by his femininity, as in balanced two much of one of the other and you have issues. It is spoken of as the seventh principle of hemetcism. The seventh principle states that all things have masculine and feminine qualities. Yes, the two sexes can be thought of as a physical manifestation of this principle, but as we're all coming to understand, on an internal level, all of us hold both energies. (Think the left and right brain.) A masculine square or a feminine circle, masculine blue, or a feminine pink and so on and so on. Masculine and feminine energy exists in not only the physical plane but the mental and spiritual plane as well. The unity of these two energies is essential for creation, and when one has a balance of both, they're better able to apply all of the principles together for maximum benefit." Has anyone else studied hemetcism? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Isn't it strange that a thread on masculinity as often does on here, turn into what women do wrong. There are many things I think women do wrong that can erode a males sense of place in the world. Such as emotional abuse, you're not a real man if you don't do xyz for example. I really don't think holding doors in the real issue to why men can feel emasculated. Because no side is innocent. That's why. Male, female, man, woman, whatever. We are all still people. Things start somewhere, no matter how small, and when you have to start question when being polite could result in being accused of wrongful intent. If things continue as such people will stop being polite full stop because it won't be worth the effort or consequences. It is not about what women do wrong, there will be men that agree with certain women that xyz is sexist. It is about a challenge against a view that is harming good intentions. I hear you, I was guilty of saying grow a pair when I was younger. I shudder at that thought now as I know better. We should most definitely discuss behaviour that is unacceptable. Surely it would be better than all genders were taught to hold doors open to each other, rather than it being a male thing to do as it's just polite? I do though. Most people I know do but there are women who don’t like it. There’s women on this thread who have said that before! That’s what I don’t understand. That I don't understand, I was taught to keep doors open because it's polite. I've worked most of my career with men. I sometimes have to ask them to help me with loosening a bolt from a machine. I give it a damn good try and if I can't budge it I've haven't got an issue asking them to do it for me. They are stronger than me end of and I want to get the job done. It doesn't make me weak to ask for help or undermines my capabilities. They are better than me at something and I know I'm better than them in other things. We all have different skill sets. Absolutely agree. Men are generally physically stronger than women. You can’t argue with facts. I’m glad that we got that straightened out at least!
"Oh someone will be around to even argue that one | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"In the last few decades a women's 'role' has changed a lot. Women are more empowered, we have more choice, more career options and we are more independent compared to say the 1950s. Is it possible that men have lost their sense of what their role is, as most of the changes have really been to the woman's role and very little change, at a societal level, has happened for men? I'm not sure if it's true or just a load of crap, it's just something I've been wondering!" Depends on their upbringing in terms of change. If they’ve grown up around it there won’t be an issue. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Isn't it strange that a thread on masculinity as often does on here, turn into what women do wrong. There are many things I think women do wrong that can erode a males sense of place in the world. Such as emotional abuse, you're not a real man if you don't do xyz for example. I really don't think holding doors in the real issue to why men can feel emasculated. Because no side is innocent. That's why. Male, female, man, woman, whatever. We are all still people. Things start somewhere, no matter how small, and when you have to start question when being polite could result in being accused of wrongful intent. If things continue as such people will stop being polite full stop because it won't be worth the effort or consequences. It is not about what women do wrong, there will be men that agree with certain women that xyz is sexist. It is about a challenge against a view that is harming good intentions. I hear you, I was guilty of saying grow a pair when I was younger. I shudder at that thought now as I know better. We should most definitely discuss behaviour that is unacceptable. Surely it would be better than all genders were taught to hold doors open to each other, rather than it being a male thing to do as it's just polite? I do though. Most people I know do but there are women who don’t like it. There’s women on this thread who have said that before! That’s what I don’t understand. That I don't understand, I was taught to keep doors open because it's polite. I've worked most of my career with men. I sometimes have to ask them to help me with loosening a bolt from a machine. I give it a damn good try and if I can't budge it I've haven't got an issue asking them to do it for me. They are stronger than me end of and I want to get the job done. It doesn't make me weak to ask for help or undermines my capabilities. They are better than me at something and I know I'm better than them in other things. We all have different skill sets. Absolutely agree. Men are generally physically stronger than women. You can’t argue with facts. I’m glad that we got that straightened out at least!
Oh someone will be around to even argue that one "You’d probably take me in a fight | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Isn't it strange that a thread on masculinity as often does on here, turn into what women do wrong. There are many things I think women do wrong that can erode a males sense of place in the world. Such as emotional abuse, you're not a real man if you don't do xyz for example. I really don't think holding doors in the real issue to why men can feel emasculated. Because no side is innocent. That's why. Male, female, man, woman, whatever. We are all still people. Things start somewhere, no matter how small, and when you have to start question when being polite could result in being accused of wrongful intent. If things continue as such people will stop being polite full stop because it won't be worth the effort or consequences. It is not about what women do wrong, there will be men that agree with certain women that xyz is sexist. It is about a challenge against a view that is harming good intentions. I hear you, I was guilty of saying grow a pair when I was younger. I shudder at that thought now as I know better. We should most definitely discuss behaviour that is unacceptable. Surely it would be better than all genders were taught to hold doors open to each other, rather than it being a male thing to do as it's just polite? I do though. Most people I know do but there are women who don’t like it. There’s women on this thread who have said that before! That’s what I don’t understand. People like and dislike all sorts of things for all sorts of reasons. I don't like it, but I don't want to derail. I don’t think it is de-railing I think it’s relevant to the topic. Why don’t you like it? I like manners. I dislike traditional displays of old fashioned manners. It has no place in my life and I am not that little lady. And if it happens, I smile and say thank you. If I think it might be a repeat occurrence, I explain why I feel the way I feel, I reassure them it's not personal and there are no hard feelings, just please don't. I also ask people who cook for me to leave out coriander, because to me it tastes like soap. If I find coriander, I try to eat around it. I'm not attacking anyone as a cook, I'm not attacking anyone as a man. I just have preferences. So if a woman continually held the door open for you you wouldn’t have an issue? Nope. It doesn't have the same cultural connotations. I mean, I suppose she could also make it weird in other ways - and if she did I'd also have a polite conversation asking her not to." I just can’t see these attitudes as positives I really can’t. This is exactly what I mean about men can’t do right for doing wrong. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Isn't it strange that a thread on masculinity as often does on here, turn into what women do wrong. There are many things I think women do wrong that can erode a males sense of place in the world. Such as emotional abuse, you're not a real man if you don't do xyz for example. I really don't think holding doors in the real issue to why men can feel emasculated. Because no side is innocent. That's why. Male, female, man, woman, whatever. We are all still people. Things start somewhere, no matter how small, and when you have to start question when being polite could result in being accused of wrongful intent. If things continue as such people will stop being polite full stop because it won't be worth the effort or consequences. It is not about what women do wrong, there will be men that agree with certain women that xyz is sexist. It is about a challenge against a view that is harming good intentions. I hear you, I was guilty of saying grow a pair when I was younger. I shudder at that thought now as I know better. We should most definitely discuss behaviour that is unacceptable. Surely it would be better than all genders were taught to hold doors open to each other, rather than it being a male thing to do as it's just polite? I do though. Most people I know do but there are women who don’t like it. There’s women on this thread who have said that before! That’s what I don’t understand. That I don't understand, I was taught to keep doors open because it's polite. I've worked most of my career with men. I sometimes have to ask them to help me with loosening a bolt from a machine. I give it a damn good try and if I can't budge it I've haven't got an issue asking them to do it for me. They are stronger than me end of and I want to get the job done. It doesn't make me weak to ask for help or undermines my capabilities. They are better than me at something and I know I'm better than them in other things. We all have different skill sets. Absolutely agree. Men are generally physically stronger than women. You can’t argue with facts. I’m glad that we got that straightened out at least!
Oh someone will be around to even argue that one
You’d probably take me in a fight ". I may have strong opinions but I’m not a fighter lol. Unless you hit me first. Then you’d never get up | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Isn't it strange that a thread on masculinity as often does on here, turn into what women do wrong. There are many things I think women do wrong that can erode a males sense of place in the world. Such as emotional abuse, you're not a real man if you don't do xyz for example. I really don't think holding doors in the real issue to why men can feel emasculated. Because no side is innocent. That's why. Male, female, man, woman, whatever. We are all still people. Things start somewhere, no matter how small, and when you have to start question when being polite could result in being accused of wrongful intent. If things continue as such people will stop being polite full stop because it won't be worth the effort or consequences. It is not about what women do wrong, there will be men that agree with certain women that xyz is sexist. It is about a challenge against a view that is harming good intentions. I hear you, I was guilty of saying grow a pair when I was younger. I shudder at that thought now as I know better. We should most definitely discuss behaviour that is unacceptable. Surely it would be better than all genders were taught to hold doors open to each other, rather than it being a male thing to do as it's just polite? I do though. Most people I know do but there are women who don’t like it. There’s women on this thread who have said that before! That’s what I don’t understand. That I don't understand, I was taught to keep doors open because it's polite. I've worked most of my career with men. I sometimes have to ask them to help me with loosening a bolt from a machine. I give it a damn good try and if I can't budge it I've haven't got an issue asking them to do it for me. They are stronger than me end of and I want to get the job done. It doesn't make me weak to ask for help or undermines my capabilities. They are better than me at something and I know I'm better than them in other things. We all have different skill sets. Absolutely agree. Men are generally physically stronger than women. You can’t argue with facts. I’m glad that we got that straightened out at least!
Oh someone will be around to even argue that one
You’d probably take me in a fight
. I may have strong opinions but I’m not a fighter lol. Unless you hit me first. Then you’d never get up "aside from erection, I agree | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Isn't it strange that a thread on masculinity as often does on here, turn into what women do wrong. There are many things I think women do wrong that can erode a males sense of place in the world. Such as emotional abuse, you're not a real man if you don't do xyz for example. I really don't think holding doors in the real issue to why men can feel emasculated. Because no side is innocent. That's why. Male, female, man, woman, whatever. We are all still people. Things start somewhere, no matter how small, and when you have to start question when being polite could result in being accused of wrongful intent. If things continue as such people will stop being polite full stop because it won't be worth the effort or consequences. It is not about what women do wrong, there will be men that agree with certain women that xyz is sexist. It is about a challenge against a view that is harming good intentions. I hear you, I was guilty of saying grow a pair when I was younger. I shudder at that thought now as I know better. We should most definitely discuss behaviour that is unacceptable. Surely it would be better than all genders were taught to hold doors open to each other, rather than it being a male thing to do as it's just polite? I do though. Most people I know do but there are women who don’t like it. There’s women on this thread who have said that before! That’s what I don’t understand. People like and dislike all sorts of things for all sorts of reasons. I don't like it, but I don't want to derail. I don’t think it is de-railing I think it’s relevant to the topic. Why don’t you like it? I like manners. I dislike traditional displays of old fashioned manners. It has no place in my life and I am not that little lady. And if it happens, I smile and say thank you. If I think it might be a repeat occurrence, I explain why I feel the way I feel, I reassure them it's not personal and there are no hard feelings, just please don't. I also ask people who cook for me to leave out coriander, because to me it tastes like soap. If I find coriander, I try to eat around it. I'm not attacking anyone as a cook, I'm not attacking anyone as a man. I just have preferences. So if a woman continually held the door open for you you wouldn’t have an issue? Nope. It doesn't have the same cultural connotations. I mean, I suppose she could also make it weird in other ways - and if she did I'd also have a polite conversation asking her not to. I just can’t see these attitudes as positives I really can’t. This is exactly what I mean about men can’t do right for doing wrong. " And my preferences are my preferences. I'm not rude, I'm not belittling, and if it's a one off I'm gracious. (And those who've met me - I'm sure you can imagine how I am. I'm not one to beat people with the feminist Bible for holding a door, despite how it may look by my words) If anyone is offended by that, I'm sorry, but I'm doing all I can to live a life I'm comfortable with. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Isn't it strange that a thread on masculinity as often does on here, turn into what women do wrong. There are many things I think women do wrong that can erode a males sense of place in the world. Such as emotional abuse, you're not a real man if you don't do xyz for example. I really don't think holding doors in the real issue to why men can feel emasculated. Because no side is innocent. That's why. Male, female, man, woman, whatever. We are all still people. Things start somewhere, no matter how small, and when you have to start question when being polite could result in being accused of wrongful intent. If things continue as such people will stop being polite full stop because it won't be worth the effort or consequences. It is not about what women do wrong, there will be men that agree with certain women that xyz is sexist. It is about a challenge against a view that is harming good intentions. I hear you, I was guilty of saying grow a pair when I was younger. I shudder at that thought now as I know better. We should most definitely discuss behaviour that is unacceptable. Surely it would be better than all genders were taught to hold doors open to each other, rather than it being a male thing to do as it's just polite? I do though. Most people I know do but there are women who don’t like it. There’s women on this thread who have said that before! That’s what I don’t understand. People like and dislike all sorts of things for all sorts of reasons. I don't like it, but I don't want to derail. I don’t think it is de-railing I think it’s relevant to the topic. Why don’t you like it? I like manners. I dislike traditional displays of old fashioned manners. It has no place in my life and I am not that little lady. And if it happens, I smile and say thank you. If I think it might be a repeat occurrence, I explain why I feel the way I feel, I reassure them it's not personal and there are no hard feelings, just please don't. I also ask people who cook for me to leave out coriander, because to me it tastes like soap. If I find coriander, I try to eat around it. I'm not attacking anyone as a cook, I'm not attacking anyone as a man. I just have preferences. So if a woman continually held the door open for you you wouldn’t have an issue? Nope. It doesn't have the same cultural connotations. I mean, I suppose she could also make it weird in other ways - and if she did I'd also have a polite conversation asking her not to. I just can’t see these attitudes as positives I really can’t. This is exactly what I mean about men can’t do right for doing wrong. And my preferences are my preferences. I'm not rude, I'm not belittling, and if it's a one off I'm gracious. (And those who've met me - I'm sure you can imagine how I am. I'm not one to beat people with the feminist Bible for holding a door, despite how it may look by my words) If anyone is offended by that, I'm sorry, but I'm doing all I can to live a life I'm comfortable with." I have met you. I’m not offended. I just personally can’t understand your mindset. That’s not being offensive I hope. We are all different | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Isn't it strange that a thread on masculinity as often does on here, turn into what women do wrong. There are many things I think women do wrong that can erode a males sense of place in the world. Such as emotional abuse, you're not a real man if you don't do xyz for example. I really don't think holding doors in the real issue to why men can feel emasculated. Because no side is innocent. That's why. Male, female, man, woman, whatever. We are all still people. Things start somewhere, no matter how small, and when you have to start question when being polite could result in being accused of wrongful intent. If things continue as such people will stop being polite full stop because it won't be worth the effort or consequences. It is not about what women do wrong, there will be men that agree with certain women that xyz is sexist. It is about a challenge against a view that is harming good intentions. I hear you, I was guilty of saying grow a pair when I was younger. I shudder at that thought now as I know better. We should most definitely discuss behaviour that is unacceptable. Surely it would be better than all genders were taught to hold doors open to each other, rather than it being a male thing to do as it's just polite? I don’t understand why it’s a gendered thing, manners are universal. I do wonder though how many of these ‘guys being abused for holding doors’ stories are genuine or whether they’re anti feminist rhetoric, just like the push back against harassment of ‘we won’t be able to do anything soon’, neither of which seem to have reliable sources beyond anecdotal at best" I’ll be sure to record each person when I hold the door as proof for you almighty one. Not everything is anti feminist, and don’t really appreciate the accusation of possibly lying to push an agenda. Even if you want to be that guy who’s sooo open minded… I’ve zero issue with people being who they want to be, my example of the door holding was an example that I have, I’m sure there are other examples, similarly there will be many for women who feel oppressed. My point and example was clear, that sometimes the lines becomes blurred, what is acceptable and what is not, and ultimately it will come down to personal experiences and beliefs. I also pointed out that it comes down to intent, and like it has been mentioned in this post, if someone said they don’t like a behaviour that I wasn’t aware bothered someone, that’s very mature and acceptable way to solve an issue when someone isn’t aware they are doing something wrong… again intent. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"In the last few decades a women's 'role' has changed a lot. Women are more empowered, we have more choice, more career options and we are more independent compared to say the 1950s. Is it possible that men have lost their sense of what their role is, as most of the changes have really been to the woman's role and very little change, at a societal level, has happened for men? I'm not sure if it's true or just a load of crap, it's just something I've been wondering!" Pretty much echoing what myself and a few others have said | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I'm not sure what you mean, but I definitely belive a man's masculinity needs to be checked by his femininity, as in balanced two much of one of the other and you have issues. It is spoken of as the seventh principle of hemetcism. The seventh principle states that all things have masculine and feminine qualities. Yes, the two sexes can be thought of as a physical manifestation of this principle, but as we're all coming to understand, on an internal level, all of us hold both energies. (Think the left and right brain.) A masculine square or a feminine circle, masculine blue, or a feminine pink and so on and so on. Masculine and feminine energy exists in not only the physical plane but the mental and spiritual plane as well. The unity of these two energies is essential for creation, and when one has a balance of both, they're better able to apply all of the principles together for maximum benefit. Has anyone else studied hemetcism?" A difficult thing to study as it's traditionally passed down by word of mouth and little genuine lore in text Hit me up if you would like to converse on the subject | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Isn't it strange that a thread on masculinity as often does on here, turn into what women do wrong. There are many things I think women do wrong that can erode a males sense of place in the world. Such as emotional abuse, you're not a real man if you don't do xyz for example. I really don't think holding doors in the real issue to why men can feel emasculated. Because no side is innocent. That's why. Male, female, man, woman, whatever. We are all still people. Things start somewhere, no matter how small, and when you have to start question when being polite could result in being accused of wrongful intent. If things continue as such people will stop being polite full stop because it won't be worth the effort or consequences. It is not about what women do wrong, there will be men that agree with certain women that xyz is sexist. It is about a challenge against a view that is harming good intentions. I hear you, I was guilty of saying grow a pair when I was younger. I shudder at that thought now as I know better. We should most definitely discuss behaviour that is unacceptable. Surely it would be better than all genders were taught to hold doors open to each other, rather than it being a male thing to do as it's just polite? I do though. Most people I know do but there are women who don’t like it. There’s women on this thread who have said that before! That’s what I don’t understand. People like and dislike all sorts of things for all sorts of reasons. I don't like it, but I don't want to derail. I don’t think it is de-railing I think it’s relevant to the topic. Why don’t you like it? I like manners. I dislike traditional displays of old fashioned manners. It has no place in my life and I am not that little lady. And if it happens, I smile and say thank you. If I think it might be a repeat occurrence, I explain why I feel the way I feel, I reassure them it's not personal and there are no hard feelings, just please don't. I also ask people who cook for me to leave out coriander, because to me it tastes like soap. If I find coriander, I try to eat around it. I'm not attacking anyone as a cook, I'm not attacking anyone as a man. I just have preferences. So if a woman continually held the door open for you you wouldn’t have an issue? Nope. It doesn't have the same cultural connotations. I mean, I suppose she could also make it weird in other ways - and if she did I'd also have a polite conversation asking her not to. I just can’t see these attitudes as positives I really can’t. This is exactly what I mean about men can’t do right for doing wrong. And my preferences are my preferences. I'm not rude, I'm not belittling, and if it's a one off I'm gracious. (And those who've met me - I'm sure you can imagine how I am. I'm not one to beat people with the feminist Bible for holding a door, despite how it may look by my words) If anyone is offended by that, I'm sorry, but I'm doing all I can to live a life I'm comfortable with. I have met you. I’m not offended. I just personally can’t understand your mindset. That’s not being offensive I hope. We are all different "That's what I mean - you know I wouldn't be a screeching harpy, I'd be polite. And I am. I'm at pains to be as gentle as I can enforcing a boundary. I'm not offended either (although I'm not sure what you mean by unhelpful - my preferences are not helpful or unhelpful, they just are). We all have to do our best to respect each other. I tolerate one offs politely, that's my respect. I ask others to tolerate my tastes if I think it's going to happen again. Quid pro quo. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Isn't it strange that a thread on masculinity as often does on here, turn into what women do wrong. There are many things I think women do wrong that can erode a males sense of place in the world. Such as emotional abuse, you're not a real man if you don't do xyz for example. I really don't think holding doors in the real issue to why men can feel emasculated. Because no side is innocent. That's why. Male, female, man, woman, whatever. We are all still people. Things start somewhere, no matter how small, and when you have to start question when being polite could result in being accused of wrongful intent. If things continue as such people will stop being polite full stop because it won't be worth the effort or consequences. It is not about what women do wrong, there will be men that agree with certain women that xyz is sexist. It is about a challenge against a view that is harming good intentions. I hear you, I was guilty of saying grow a pair when I was younger. I shudder at that thought now as I know better. We should most definitely discuss behaviour that is unacceptable. Surely it would be better than all genders were taught to hold doors open to each other, rather than it being a male thing to do as it's just polite? I don’t understand why it’s a gendered thing, manners are universal. I do wonder though how many of these ‘guys being abused for holding doors’ stories are genuine or whether they’re anti feminist rhetoric, just like the push back against harassment of ‘we won’t be able to do anything soon’, neither of which seem to have reliable sources beyond anecdotal at best I’ll be sure to record each person when I hold the door as proof for you almighty one. Not everything is anti feminist, and don’t really appreciate the accusation of possibly lying to push an agenda. Even if you want to be that guy who’s sooo open minded… I’ve zero issue with people being who they want to be, my example of the door holding was an example that I have, I’m sure there are other examples, similarly there will be many for women who feel oppressed. My point and example was clear, that sometimes the lines becomes blurred, what is acceptable and what is not, and ultimately it will come down to personal experiences and beliefs. I also pointed out that it comes down to intent, and like it has been mentioned in this post, if someone said they don’t like a behaviour that I wasn’t aware bothered someone, that’s very mature and acceptable way to solve an issue when someone isn’t aware they are doing something wrong… again intent. " I stopped reading after you started belittling me. I wasn’t making a point against you, it was a point about what you wrote. If you feel offended by my comments, you’re welcome to not respond | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I'm not sure what you mean, but I definitely belive a man's masculinity needs to be checked by his femininity, as in balanced two much of one of the other and you have issues. It is spoken of as the seventh principle of hemetcism. The seventh principle states that all things have masculine and feminine qualities. Yes, the two sexes can be thought of as a physical manifestation of this principle, but as we're all coming to understand, on an internal level, all of us hold both energies. (Think the left and right brain.) A masculine square or a feminine circle, masculine blue, or a feminine pink and so on and so on. Masculine and feminine energy exists in not only the physical plane but the mental and spiritual plane as well. The unity of these two energies is essential for creation, and when one has a balance of both, they're better able to apply all of the principles together for maximum benefit. Has anyone else studied hemetcism? A difficult thing to study as it's traditionally passed down by word of mouth and little genuine lore in text Hit me up if you would like to converse on the subject "No can do madame, as you only allow people with site supporter's to message mwa. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I'm not sure what you mean, but I definitely belive a man's masculinity needs to be checked by his femininity, as in balanced two much of one of the other and you have issues. It is spoken of as the seventh principle of hemetcism. The seventh principle states that all things have masculine and feminine qualities. Yes, the two sexes can be thought of as a physical manifestation of this principle, but as we're all coming to understand, on an internal level, all of us hold both energies. (Think the left and right brain.) A masculine square or a feminine circle, masculine blue, or a feminine pink and so on and so on. Masculine and feminine energy exists in not only the physical plane but the mental and spiritual plane as well. The unity of these two energies is essential for creation, and when one has a balance of both, they're better able to apply all of the principles together for maximum benefit. Has anyone else studied hemetcism? A difficult thing to study as it's traditionally passed down by word of mouth and little genuine lore in text Hit me up if you would like to converse on the subject
No can do madame, as you only allow people with site supporter's to message mwa."Well it's only a fiver via text, go for it | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I'm not sure what you mean, but I definitely belive a man's masculinity needs to be checked by his femininity, as in balanced two much of one of the other and you have issues. It is spoken of as the seventh principle of hemetcism. The seventh principle states that all things have masculine and feminine qualities. Yes, the two sexes can be thought of as a physical manifestation of this principle, but as we're all coming to understand, on an internal level, all of us hold both energies. (Think the left and right brain.) A masculine square or a feminine circle, masculine blue, or a feminine pink and so on and so on. Masculine and feminine energy exists in not only the physical plane but the mental and spiritual plane as well. The unity of these two energies is essential for creation, and when one has a balance of both, they're better able to apply all of the principles together for maximum benefit. Has anyone else studied hemetcism? A difficult thing to study as it's traditionally passed down by word of mouth and little genuine lore in text Hit me up if you would like to converse on the subject
No can do madame, as you only allow people with site supporter's to message mwa.
Well it's only a fiver via text, go for it"I'm just really not bothered as to who as looked at me is all, I just don't require the ego boost plus god forbid I find a hot t.v has been looking then poof I'm bi now, only joking my mind takes me on adventures sometimes | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Isn't it strange that a thread on masculinity as often does on here, turn into what women do wrong. There are many things I think women do wrong that can erode a males sense of place in the world. Such as emotional abuse, you're not a real man if you don't do xyz for example. I really don't think holding doors in the real issue to why men can feel emasculated. Because no side is innocent. That's why. Male, female, man, woman, whatever. We are all still people. Things start somewhere, no matter how small, and when you have to start question when being polite could result in being accused of wrongful intent. If things continue as such people will stop being polite full stop because it won't be worth the effort or consequences. It is not about what women do wrong, there will be men that agree with certain women that xyz is sexist. It is about a challenge against a view that is harming good intentions. I hear you, I was guilty of saying grow a pair when I was younger. I shudder at that thought now as I know better. We should most definitely discuss behaviour that is unacceptable. Surely it would be better than all genders were taught to hold doors open to each other, rather than it being a male thing to do as it's just polite? I don’t understand why it’s a gendered thing, manners are universal. I do wonder though how many of these ‘guys being abused for holding doors’ stories are genuine or whether they’re anti feminist rhetoric, just like the push back against harassment of ‘we won’t be able to do anything soon’, neither of which seem to have reliable sources beyond anecdotal at best I’ll be sure to record each person when I hold the door as proof for you almighty one. Not everything is anti feminist, and don’t really appreciate the accusation of possibly lying to push an agenda. Even if you want to be that guy who’s sooo open minded… I’ve zero issue with people being who they want to be, my example of the door holding was an example that I have, I’m sure there are other examples, similarly there will be many for women who feel oppressed. My point and example was clear, that sometimes the lines becomes blurred, what is acceptable and what is not, and ultimately it will come down to personal experiences and beliefs. I also pointed out that it comes down to intent, and like it has been mentioned in this post, if someone said they don’t like a behaviour that I wasn’t aware bothered someone, that’s very mature and acceptable way to solve an issue when someone isn’t aware they are doing something wrong… again intent. I stopped reading after you started belittling me. I wasn’t making a point against you, it was a point about what you wrote. If you feel offended by my comments, you’re welcome to not respond " Of course these things happen Tea. Come on you know they do. There’s been threads on here showing extreme feminism, there are plenty women who would abuse a man for doing something he found a natural thing to do! I’m not anti- feminist but I am anti extremism. I’m anti extremism most things, left, right, everything. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Isn't it strange that a thread on masculinity as often does on here, turn into what women do wrong. There are many things I think women do wrong that can erode a males sense of place in the world. Such as emotional abuse, you're not a real man if you don't do xyz for example. I really don't think holding doors in the real issue to why men can feel emasculated. Because no side is innocent. That's why. Male, female, man, woman, whatever. We are all still people. Things start somewhere, no matter how small, and when you have to start question when being polite could result in being accused of wrongful intent. If things continue as such people will stop being polite full stop because it won't be worth the effort or consequences. It is not about what women do wrong, there will be men that agree with certain women that xyz is sexist. It is about a challenge against a view that is harming good intentions. I hear you, I was guilty of saying grow a pair when I was younger. I shudder at that thought now as I know better. We should most definitely discuss behaviour that is unacceptable. Surely it would be better than all genders were taught to hold doors open to each other, rather than it being a male thing to do as it's just polite? I don’t understand why it’s a gendered thing, manners are universal. I do wonder though how many of these ‘guys being abused for holding doors’ stories are genuine or whether they’re anti feminist rhetoric, just like the push back against harassment of ‘we won’t be able to do anything soon’, neither of which seem to have reliable sources beyond anecdotal at best I’ll be sure to record each person when I hold the door as proof for you almighty one. Not everything is anti feminist, and don’t really appreciate the accusation of possibly lying to push an agenda. Even if you want to be that guy who’s sooo open minded… I’ve zero issue with people being who they want to be, my example of the door holding was an example that I have, I’m sure there are other examples, similarly there will be many for women who feel oppressed. My point and example was clear, that sometimes the lines becomes blurred, what is acceptable and what is not, and ultimately it will come down to personal experiences and beliefs. I also pointed out that it comes down to intent, and like it has been mentioned in this post, if someone said they don’t like a behaviour that I wasn’t aware bothered someone, that’s very mature and acceptable way to solve an issue when someone isn’t aware they are doing something wrong… again intent. I stopped reading after you started belittling me. I wasn’t making a point against you, it was a point about what you wrote. If you feel offended by my comments, you’re welcome to not respond Of course these things happen Tea. Come on you know they do. There’s been threads on here showing extreme feminism, there are plenty women who would abuse a man for doing something he found a natural thing to do! I’m not anti- feminist but I am anti extremism. I’m anti extremism most things, left, right, everything. " This is my point, I don’t because I’ve never experienced it, nor has anyone that I’ve met. I’ve heard about it from some guy on the internet who’s hairdressers brothers housemate had it happen. It’s not even anecdotal, it’s mythical. Whenever gender politics comes up, these stories are trotted out and derail arguments, which (I think) are the point of them. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Before this thread maxes out, I’d like to thank everyone for what has been an interesting and thought provoking discussion. I for one have enjoyed it " Agreed it has
Back to the football now. Come on England! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I think certain people on both sides of the divide like to think there is, weighted whichever way they lean. Personally I don't think so, but then I've never thought in terms of masculinity or femininity and just take people as I find them regardless of their gender. " Good point, but don't you think it's almost impossible to not be affected by unrecognised bias? Since birth we're indoctrinated with gender roles and behaviours, whether that's within the family, society generally or via advertising media. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I think certain people on both sides of the divide like to think there is, weighted whichever way they lean. Personally I don't think so, but then I've never thought in terms of masculinity or femininity and just take people as I find them regardless of their gender. Good point, but don't you think it's almost impossible to not be affected by unrecognised bias? Since birth we're indoctrinated with gender roles and behaviours, whether that's within the family, society generally or via advertising media." Very much. I seek out my bias and try to do better and it keeps catching me. I just want to treat others with respect and have the same in return. (And respect means respectful as the recipient receives it, or else it's not very respectful, in my book) | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Before this thread maxes out, I’d like to thank everyone for what has been an interesting and thought provoking discussion. I for one have enjoyed it " Good sport | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Isn't it strange that a thread on masculinity as often does on here, turn into what women do wrong. There are many things I think women do wrong that can erode a males sense of place in the world. Such as emotional abuse, you're not a real man if you don't do xyz for example. I really don't think holding doors in the real issue to why men can feel emasculated. Because no side is innocent. That's why. Male, female, man, woman, whatever. We are all still people. Things start somewhere, no matter how small, and when you have to start question when being polite could result in being accused of wrongful intent. If things continue as such people will stop being polite full stop because it won't be worth the effort or consequences. It is not about what women do wrong, there will be men that agree with certain women that xyz is sexist. It is about a challenge against a view that is harming good intentions. I hear you, I was guilty of saying grow a pair when I was younger. I shudder at that thought now as I know better. We should most definitely discuss behaviour that is unacceptable. Surely it would be better than all genders were taught to hold doors open to each other, rather than it being a male thing to do as it's just polite? I don’t understand why it’s a gendered thing, manners are universal. I do wonder though how many of these ‘guys being abused for holding doors’ stories are genuine or whether they’re anti feminist rhetoric, just like the push back against harassment of ‘we won’t be able to do anything soon’, neither of which seem to have reliable sources beyond anecdotal at best I’ll be sure to record each person when I hold the door as proof for you almighty one. Not everything is anti feminist, and don’t really appreciate the accusation of possibly lying to push an agenda. Even if you want to be that guy who’s sooo open minded… I’ve zero issue with people being who they want to be, my example of the door holding was an example that I have, I’m sure there are other examples, similarly there will be many for women who feel oppressed. My point and example was clear, that sometimes the lines becomes blurred, what is acceptable and what is not, and ultimately it will come down to personal experiences and beliefs. I also pointed out that it comes down to intent, and like it has been mentioned in this post, if someone said they don’t like a behaviour that I wasn’t aware bothered someone, that’s very mature and acceptable way to solve an issue when someone isn’t aware they are doing something wrong… again intent. I stopped reading after you started belittling me. I wasn’t making a point against you, it was a point about what you wrote. If you feel offended by my comments, you’re welcome to not respond Of course these things happen Tea. Come on you know they do. There’s been threads on here showing extreme feminism, there are plenty women who would abuse a man for doing something he found a natural thing to do! I’m not anti- feminist but I am anti extremism. I’m anti extremism most things, left, right, everything. This is my point, I don’t because I’ve never experienced it, nor has anyone that I’ve met. I’ve heard about it from some guy on the internet who’s hairdressers brothers housemate had it happen. It’s not even anecdotal, it’s mythical. Whenever gender politics comes up, these stories are trotted out and derail arguments, which (I think) are the point of them. " I’ve experienced it. My Ex had extreme feminist views. Just because you don’t see it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Isn't it strange that a thread on masculinity as often does on here, turn into what women do wrong. There are many things I think women do wrong that can erode a males sense of place in the world. Such as emotional abuse, you're not a real man if you don't do xyz for example. I really don't think holding doors in the real issue to why men can feel emasculated. Because no side is innocent. That's why. Male, female, man, woman, whatever. We are all still people. Things start somewhere, no matter how small, and when you have to start question when being polite could result in being accused of wrongful intent. If things continue as such people will stop being polite full stop because it won't be worth the effort or consequences. It is not about what women do wrong, there will be men that agree with certain women that xyz is sexist. It is about a challenge against a view that is harming good intentions. I hear you, I was guilty of saying grow a pair when I was younger. I shudder at that thought now as I know better. We should most definitely discuss behaviour that is unacceptable. Surely it would be better than all genders were taught to hold doors open to each other, rather than it being a male thing to do as it's just polite? I don’t understand why it’s a gendered thing, manners are universal. I do wonder though how many of these ‘guys being abused for holding doors’ stories are genuine or whether they’re anti feminist rhetoric, just like the push back against harassment of ‘we won’t be able to do anything soon’, neither of which seem to have reliable sources beyond anecdotal at best I’ll be sure to record each person when I hold the door as proof for you almighty one. Not everything is anti feminist, and don’t really appreciate the accusation of possibly lying to push an agenda. Even if you want to be that guy who’s sooo open minded… I’ve zero issue with people being who they want to be, my example of the door holding was an example that I have, I’m sure there are other examples, similarly there will be many for women who feel oppressed. My point and example was clear, that sometimes the lines becomes blurred, what is acceptable and what is not, and ultimately it will come down to personal experiences and beliefs. I also pointed out that it comes down to intent, and like it has been mentioned in this post, if someone said they don’t like a behaviour that I wasn’t aware bothered someone, that’s very mature and acceptable way to solve an issue when someone isn’t aware they are doing something wrong… again intent. I stopped reading after you started belittling me. I wasn’t making a point against you, it was a point about what you wrote. If you feel offended by my comments, you’re welcome to not respond Of course these things happen Tea. Come on you know they do. There’s been threads on here showing extreme feminism, there are plenty women who would abuse a man for doing something he found a natural thing to do! I’m not anti- feminist but I am anti extremism. I’m anti extremism most things, left, right, everything. This is my point, I don’t because I’ve never experienced it, nor has anyone that I’ve met. I’ve heard about it from some guy on the internet who’s hairdressers brothers housemate had it happen. It’s not even anecdotal, it’s mythical. Whenever gender politics comes up, these stories are trotted out and derail arguments, which (I think) are the point of them. I’ve experienced it. My Ex had extreme feminist views. Just because you don’t see it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist " I tend to agree with this. The word Feminist is widely misunderstood and misused. It simply means woman's rights. However like many other aspects of life it has been used and quite wrongly by an extreme man hating minority to push their own agendas. Thus, this form of feminism is a bastardisation of what it's meant to represent. You cannot turn women's rights into a man hating campaign and introduce your own rules. Unfortunately feminism has been hijacked by the fee in certain corners of society as a platform to voice their hatrid. I'm all for feminism but in its original form. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Isn't it strange that a thread on masculinity as often does on here, turn into what women do wrong. There are many things I think women do wrong that can erode a males sense of place in the world. Such as emotional abuse, you're not a real man if you don't do xyz for example. I really don't think holding doors in the real issue to why men can feel emasculated. Because no side is innocent. That's why. Male, female, man, woman, whatever. We are all still people. Things start somewhere, no matter how small, and when you have to start question when being polite could result in being accused of wrongful intent. If things continue as such people will stop being polite full stop because it won't be worth the effort or consequences. It is not about what women do wrong, there will be men that agree with certain women that xyz is sexist. It is about a challenge against a view that is harming good intentions. I hear you, I was guilty of saying grow a pair when I was younger. I shudder at that thought now as I know better. We should most definitely discuss behaviour that is unacceptable. Surely it would be better than all genders were taught to hold doors open to each other, rather than it being a male thing to do as it's just polite? I don’t understand why it’s a gendered thing, manners are universal. I do wonder though how many of these ‘guys being abused for holding doors’ stories are genuine or whether they’re anti feminist rhetoric, just like the push back against harassment of ‘we won’t be able to do anything soon’, neither of which seem to have reliable sources beyond anecdotal at best I’ll be sure to record each person when I hold the door as proof for you almighty one. Not everything is anti feminist, and don’t really appreciate the accusation of possibly lying to push an agenda. Even if you want to be that guy who’s sooo open minded… I’ve zero issue with people being who they want to be, my example of the door holding was an example that I have, I’m sure there are other examples, similarly there will be many for women who feel oppressed. My point and example was clear, that sometimes the lines becomes blurred, what is acceptable and what is not, and ultimately it will come down to personal experiences and beliefs. I also pointed out that it comes down to intent, and like it has been mentioned in this post, if someone said they don’t like a behaviour that I wasn’t aware bothered someone, that’s very mature and acceptable way to solve an issue when someone isn’t aware they are doing something wrong… again intent. I stopped reading after you started belittling me. I wasn’t making a point against you, it was a point about what you wrote. If you feel offended by my comments, you’re welcome to not respond Of course these things happen Tea. Come on you know they do. There’s been threads on here showing extreme feminism, there are plenty women who would abuse a man for doing something he found a natural thing to do! I’m not anti- feminist but I am anti extremism. I’m anti extremism most things, left, right, everything. This is my point, I don’t because I’ve never experienced it, nor has anyone that I’ve met. I’ve heard about it from some guy on the internet who’s hairdressers brothers housemate had it happen. It’s not even anecdotal, it’s mythical. Whenever gender politics comes up, these stories are trotted out and derail arguments, which (I think) are the point of them. I’ve experienced it. My Ex had extreme feminist views. Just because you don’t see it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist I tend to agree with this. The word Feminist is widely misunderstood and misused. It simply means woman's rights. However like many other aspects of life it has been used and quite wrongly by an extreme man hating minority to push their own agendas. Thus, this form of feminism is a bastardisation of what it's meant to represent. You cannot turn women's rights into a man hating campaign and introduce your own rules. Unfortunately feminism has been hijacked by the fee in certain corners of society as a platform to voice their hatrid. I'm all for feminism but in its original form." | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Isn't it strange that a thread on masculinity as often does on here, turn into what women do wrong. There are many things I think women do wrong that can erode a males sense of place in the world. Such as emotional abuse, you're not a real man if you don't do xyz for example. I really don't think holding doors in the real issue to why men can feel emasculated. Because no side is innocent. That's why. Male, female, man, woman, whatever. We are all still people. Things start somewhere, no matter how small, and when you have to start question when being polite could result in being accused of wrongful intent. If things continue as such people will stop being polite full stop because it won't be worth the effort or consequences. It is not about what women do wrong, there will be men that agree with certain women that xyz is sexist. It is about a challenge against a view that is harming good intentions. I hear you, I was guilty of saying grow a pair when I was younger. I shudder at that thought now as I know better. We should most definitely discuss behaviour that is unacceptable. Surely it would be better than all genders were taught to hold doors open to each other, rather than it being a male thing to do as it's just polite? I don’t understand why it’s a gendered thing, manners are universal. I do wonder though how many of these ‘guys being abused for holding doors’ stories are genuine or whether they’re anti feminist rhetoric, just like the push back against harassment of ‘we won’t be able to do anything soon’, neither of which seem to have reliable sources beyond anecdotal at best I’ll be sure to record each person when I hold the door as proof for you almighty one. Not everything is anti feminist, and don’t really appreciate the accusation of possibly lying to push an agenda. Even if you want to be that guy who’s sooo open minded… I’ve zero issue with people being who they want to be, my example of the door holding was an example that I have, I’m sure there are other examples, similarly there will be many for women who feel oppressed. My point and example was clear, that sometimes the lines becomes blurred, what is acceptable and what is not, and ultimately it will come down to personal experiences and beliefs. I also pointed out that it comes down to intent, and like it has been mentioned in this post, if someone said they don’t like a behaviour that I wasn’t aware bothered someone, that’s very mature and acceptable way to solve an issue when someone isn’t aware they are doing something wrong… again intent. I stopped reading after you started belittling me. I wasn’t making a point against you, it was a point about what you wrote. If you feel offended by my comments, you’re welcome to not respond Of course these things happen Tea. Come on you know they do. There’s been threads on here showing extreme feminism, there are plenty women who would abuse a man for doing something he found a natural thing to do! I’m not anti- feminist but I am anti extremism. I’m anti extremism most things, left, right, everything. This is my point, I don’t because I’ve never experienced it, nor has anyone that I’ve met. I’ve heard about it from some guy on the internet who’s hairdressers brothers housemate had it happen. It’s not even anecdotal, it’s mythical. Whenever gender politics comes up, these stories are trotted out and derail arguments, which (I think) are the point of them. I’ve experienced it. My Ex had extreme feminist views. Just because you don’t see it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist I tend to agree with this. The word Feminist is widely misunderstood and misused. It simply means woman's rights. However like many other aspects of life it has been used and quite wrongly by an extreme man hating minority to push their own agendas. Thus, this form of feminism is a bastardisation of what it's meant to represent. You cannot turn women's rights into a man hating campaign and introduce your own rules. Unfortunately feminism has been hijacked by the fee in certain corners of society as a platform to voice their hatrid. I'm all for feminism but in its original form." Not super well versed on this but from what vibe read were currently on 4th wave feminism, with each wave becoming more and more misandrist . But I think it’s important to remember that it’s extremism we don’t like. Not feminism. My EX had some crazy idea about what equality was and how men should be treated and how problems should be fixed. And we had been fwb for a few years prior to me learning about these things. She’s a fairly normal, level headed woman outside of her extremist views so I find it very odd how these ideas can find themselves seeded within people | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Is there a crisis in masculinity? Discuss ( by that I mean let’s try to keep it civil and not make personal attacks) " I think there is a crisis in sexual identity. When you don’t to limit the number of boxes that we can be put into, masculinity is simply on a continuum. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| back to top |  |
