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"The last two England football matches has seen boos from some supporters as the England players take the knee. Not all Romanian players participated. Should the TV companies edit out the boos ?" I heard a good debate on this on talksport radio today. I think they are psoing the wrong challenge / question. If they asked if they'd have a minutes applause to support racial equality... I'm sure the response would be much more supportive. As for your question. No they shouldn't edit it out. But the authorities should have a think about what they are trying to achieve and how they are going about it. With the euros coming it has potential to be positive or negative. Just telling people they should do something and if they don't do it it's a problem isn't moving the problem along at all. | |||
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"The last two England football matches has seen boos from some supporters as the England players take the knee. Not all Romanian players participated. Should the TV companies edit out the boos ? I heard a good debate on this on talksport radio today. I think they are psoing the wrong challenge / question. If they asked if they'd have a minutes applause to support racial equality... I'm sure the response would be much more supportive. As for your question. No they shouldn't edit it out. But the authorities should have a think about what they are trying to achieve and how they are going about it. With the euros coming it has potential to be positive or negative. Just telling people they should do something and if they don't do it it's a problem isn't moving the problem along at all. " Yep - if the kneeling wasnt being used i doubt fans would boo. Link arms in the centre after the anthems to show solidarity in a way that has no wider political connotations. | |||
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"The boos are fans opposing the symbol because of what comes along with it - to say it is apolitical is highly ignorant and southgate and mings etc... telling people to educate themselves and that the booers are racist is extremely arrogant. I am an egalitarian and believe in fighting racism but i dont agree with the claims of BLMGNF and the broader movement because it is based on an americsn context and ropey interpretations of incomplete statistics. Critical Race Theory is highly flawed as a lens through which to scrutinise society and booing is a way to show that. The players could link arms in the centre instead and support "Kick it out" but they choose this instead. Eventually the knee taking will end having achieved nothing but an increase in racial tension and a media culture of click-batey race bating." A very good post... | |||
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"The boos are fans opposing the symbol because of what comes along with it" Completely disagree with this, they know exactly what they're booing | |||
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"The boos are fans opposing the symbol because of what comes along with it Completely disagree with this, they know exactly what they're booing " Only they can comment to be fair.. I read a BBC article today suggesting why they boo...it was bullshit...ask the crowd | |||
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"The boos are fans opposing the symbol because of what comes along with it Completely disagree with this, they know exactly what they're booing " What are they booing? | |||
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"The boos are fans opposing the symbol because of what comes along with it Completely disagree with this, they know exactly what they're booing What are they booing? " Who knows ? I was not there | |||
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"The boos are fans opposing the symbol because of what comes along with it - to say it is apolitical is highly ignorant and southgate and mings etc... telling people to educate themselves and that the booers are racist is extremely arrogant. I am an egalitarian and believe in fighting racism but i dont agree with the claims of BLMGNF and the broader movement because it is based on an americsn context and ropey interpretations of incomplete statistics. Critical Race Theory is highly flawed as a lens through which to scrutinise society and booing is a way to show that. The players could link arms in the centre instead and support "Kick it out" but they choose this instead. Eventually the knee taking will end having achieved nothing but an increase in racial tension and a media culture of click-batey race bating." Exactly this. People flock to sports for escapism from their daily routine. The last thing the majority of them want is to be preached to; they receive enough of that on a daily basis. The booing reflects the annoyance to the infiltration of politics into their escapism more than anything else. | |||
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"The boos are fans opposing the symbol because of what comes along with it - to say it is apolitical is highly ignorant and southgate and mings etc... telling people to educate themselves and that the booers are racist is extremely arrogant. I am an egalitarian and believe in fighting racism but i dont agree with the claims of BLMGNF and the broader movement because it is based on an americsn context and ropey interpretations of incomplete statistics. Critical Race Theory is highly flawed as a lens through which to scrutinise society and booing is a way to show that. The players could link arms in the centre instead and support "Kick it out" but they choose this instead. Eventually the knee taking will end having achieved nothing but an increase in racial tension and a media culture of click-batey race bating. Exactly this. People flock to sports for escapism from their daily routine. The last thing the majority of them want is to be preached to; they receive enough of that on a daily basis. The booing reflects the annoyance to the infiltration of politics into their escapism more than anything else." Possibly some truth in this.. | |||
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"How long will this taking the knee go on for? I think this going on to long now " Theres a summer of sport coming... Euros, test cricket, Olympics, Wimbledon, lions, f1.... An opportunity to take actions for equality... Imho taking a knee does nothing to move us towards equal opportunities for all. Creating further division and labelling surely isn't the purpose. | |||
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"They say it’s an individuals choice to take the knee but is it really? " I would say it's the easy option to take the knee. Those who don't face judgement. I would never do it but to be fair.. I don't give a fuck | |||
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"The boos are fans opposing the symbol because of what comes along with it - to say it is apolitical is highly ignorant and southgate and mings etc... telling people to educate themselves and that the booers are racist is extremely arrogant. I am an egalitarian and believe in fighting racism but i dont agree with the claims of BLMGNF and the broader movement because it is based on an americsn context and ropey interpretations of incomplete statistics. Critical Race Theory is highly flawed as a lens through which to scrutinise society and booing is a way to show that. The players could link arms in the centre instead and support "Kick it out" but they choose this instead. Eventually the knee taking will end having achieved nothing but an increase in racial tension and a media culture of click-batey race bating. Exactly this. People flock to sports for escapism from their daily routine. The last thing the majority of them want is to be preached to; they receive enough of that on a daily basis. The booing reflects the annoyance to the infiltration of politics into their escapism more than anything else." While I mostly agree with you, there are those that have no problem expressing their racist views, or shouting out racist comments in the world of sport. It would be nice if people of colour were able to escape from that too. | |||
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"The boos are fans opposing the symbol because of what comes along with it - to say it is apolitical is highly ignorant and southgate and mings etc... telling people to educate themselves and that the booers are racist is extremely arrogant. I am an egalitarian and believe in fighting racism but i dont agree with the claims of BLMGNF and the broader movement because it is based on an americsn context and ropey interpretations of incomplete statistics. Critical Race Theory is highly flawed as a lens through which to scrutinise society and booing is a way to show that. The players could link arms in the centre instead and support "Kick it out" but they choose this instead. Eventually the knee taking will end having achieved nothing but an increase in racial tension and a media culture of click-batey race bating. Exactly this. People flock to sports for escapism from their daily routine. The last thing the majority of them want is to be preached to; they receive enough of that on a daily basis. The booing reflects the annoyance to the infiltration of politics into their escapism more than anything else. While I mostly agree with you, there are those that have no problem expressing their racist views, or shouting out racist comments in the world of sport. It would be nice if people of colour were able to escape from that too." And that's the whole point of it isn't it? Behind kick it out... Behind equal opportunities... If somethings not achieving what it set out to... Then change it... But don't belittle the people who you are endeavouring to support it... That's never ever going to work. | |||
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"The boos are fans opposing the symbol because of what comes along with it - to say it is apolitical is highly ignorant and southgate and mings etc... telling people to educate themselves and that the booers are racist is extremely arrogant. I am an egalitarian and believe in fighting racism but i dont agree with the claims of BLMGNF and the broader movement because it is based on an americsn context and ropey interpretations of incomplete statistics. Critical Race Theory is highly flawed as a lens through which to scrutinise society and booing is a way to show that. The players could link arms in the centre instead and support "Kick it out" but they choose this instead. Eventually the knee taking will end having achieved nothing but an increase in racial tension and a media culture of click-batey race bating. Exactly this. People flock to sports for escapism from their daily routine. The last thing the majority of them want is to be preached to; they receive enough of that on a daily basis. The booing reflects the annoyance to the infiltration of politics into their escapism more than anything else. While I mostly agree with you, there are those that have no problem expressing their racist views, or shouting out racist comments in the world of sport. It would be nice if people of colour were able to escape from that too. And that's the whole point of it isn't it? Behind kick it out... Behind equal opportunities... If somethings not achieving what it set out to... Then change it... But don't belittle the people who you are endeavouring to support it... That's never ever going to work. " It actually alianates people who support...never make it compulsory .. that's my view | |||
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"Critical Race Theory is highly flawed as a lens through which to scrutinise society and booing is a way to show that. " I doubt if these people booing could spell Critical Race Theory, even if they knew what it meant. | |||
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"Critical Race Theory is highly flawed as a lens through which to scrutinise society and booing is a way to show that. I doubt if these people booing could spell Critical Race Theory, even if they knew what it meant." The age old issue.. treating those who do not follow a narrative like idiots... | |||
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"Critical Race Theory is highly flawed as a lens through which to scrutinise society and booing is a way to show that. I doubt if these people booing could spell Critical Race Theory, even if they knew what it meant." Really? Do you know them? It's a massive assumption you're making there. | |||
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"Critical Race Theory is highly flawed as a lens through which to scrutinise society and booing is a way to show that. I doubt if these people booing could spell Critical Race Theory, even if they knew what it meant. Really? Do you know them? It's a massive assumption you're making there. " Easy way to dispel people...undermine them and ridicule them... | |||
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"They took the knee and made there point, to which I agree but it is over a year now and I don't agree with having it rammed down our throat. It has proved at certain grounds it works but like everything in time we get bored of it." It's become tedious.. | |||
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"They took the knee and made there point, to which I agree but it is over a year now and I don't agree with having it rammed down our throat. It has proved at certain grounds it works but like everything in time we get bored of it. It's become tedious.. " And if you don't agree your part of the problem...that's become tedious too.. | |||
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"The boos are fans opposing the symbol because of what comes along with it - to say it is apolitical is highly ignorant and southgate and mings etc... telling people to educate themselves and that the booers are racist is extremely arrogant. I am an egalitarian and believe in fighting racism but i dont agree with the claims of BLMGNF and the broader movement because it is based on an americsn context and ropey interpretations of incomplete statistics. Critical Race Theory is highly flawed as a lens through which to scrutinise society and booing is a way to show that. The players could link arms in the centre instead and support "Kick it out" but they choose this instead. Eventually the knee taking will end having achieved nothing but an increase in racial tension and a media culture of click-batey race bating. Exactly this. People flock to sports for escapism from their daily routine. The last thing the majority of them want is to be preached to; they receive enough of that on a daily basis. The booing reflects the annoyance to the infiltration of politics into their escapism more than anything else." Is putting a poppy on a shirt not political? | |||
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"Critical Race Theory is highly flawed as a lens through which to scrutinise society and booing is a way to show that. I doubt if these people booing could spell Critical Race Theory, even if they knew what it meant. Really? Do you know them? It's a massive assumption you're making there. " Do you genuinly England fans are booing as they dont agree with critical race theory? | |||
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"The boos are fans opposing the symbol because of what comes along with it - to say it is apolitical is highly ignorant and southgate and mings etc... telling people to educate themselves and that the booers are racist is extremely arrogant. I am an egalitarian and believe in fighting racism but i dont agree with the claims of BLMGNF and the broader movement because it is based on an americsn context and ropey interpretations of incomplete statistics. Critical Race Theory is highly flawed as a lens through which to scrutinise society and booing is a way to show that. The players could link arms in the centre instead and support "Kick it out" but they choose this instead. Eventually the knee taking will end having achieved nothing but an increase in racial tension and a media culture of click-batey race bating. Exactly this. People flock to sports for escapism from their daily routine. The last thing the majority of them want is to be preached to; they receive enough of that on a daily basis. The booing reflects the annoyance to the infiltration of politics into their escapism more than anything else. Is putting a poppy on a shirt not political?" It is and most years England are prevented from doing so by uefa/fifa... They were recently granted permission for the 100th anniversary I believe? | |||
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"The boos are fans opposing the symbol because of what comes along with it - to say it is apolitical is highly ignorant and southgate and mings etc... telling people to educate themselves and that the booers are racist is extremely arrogant. I am an egalitarian and believe in fighting racism but i dont agree with the claims of BLMGNF and the broader movement because it is based on an americsn context and ropey interpretations of incomplete statistics. Critical Race Theory is highly flawed as a lens through which to scrutinise society and booing is a way to show that. The players could link arms in the centre instead and support "Kick it out" but they choose this instead. Eventually the knee taking will end having achieved nothing but an increase in racial tension and a media culture of click-batey race bating. Exactly this. People flock to sports for escapism from their daily routine. The last thing the majority of them want is to be preached to; they receive enough of that on a daily basis. The booing reflects the annoyance to the infiltration of politics into their escapism more than anything else. Is putting a poppy on a shirt not political? It is and most years England are prevented from doing so by uefa/fifa... They were recently granted permission for the 100th anniversary I believe? " So it's ok to make players wear a poppy but players should be allowed to choose to take the knee? | |||
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"The boos are fans opposing the symbol because of what comes along with it - to say it is apolitical is highly ignorant and southgate and mings etc... telling people to educate themselves and that the booers are racist is extremely arrogant. I am an egalitarian and believe in fighting racism but i dont agree with the claims of BLMGNF and the broader movement because it is based on an americsn context and ropey interpretations of incomplete statistics. Critical Race Theory is highly flawed as a lens through which to scrutinise society and booing is a way to show that. The players could link arms in the centre instead and support "Kick it out" but they choose this instead. Eventually the knee taking will end having achieved nothing but an increase in racial tension and a media culture of click-batey race bating. Exactly this. People flock to sports for escapism from their daily routine. The last thing the majority of them want is to be preached to; they receive enough of that on a daily basis. The booing reflects the annoyance to the infiltration of politics into their escapism more than anything else." It's about racism. I'm sure you've seen how many black players get racially abused online after almost everye game. So if you're flocking to a sport to escape your daily routine then why boo? | |||
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"The boos are fans opposing the symbol because of what comes along with it - to say it is apolitical is highly ignorant and southgate and mings etc... telling people to educate themselves and that the booers are racist is extremely arrogant. I am an egalitarian and believe in fighting racism but i dont agree with the claims of BLMGNF and the broader movement because it is based on an americsn context and ropey interpretations of incomplete statistics. Critical Race Theory is highly flawed as a lens through which to scrutinise society and booing is a way to show that. The players could link arms in the centre instead and support "Kick it out" but they choose this instead. Eventually the knee taking will end having achieved nothing but an increase in racial tension and a media culture of click-batey race bating. Exactly this. People flock to sports for escapism from their daily routine. The last thing the majority of them want is to be preached to; they receive enough of that on a daily basis. The booing reflects the annoyance to the infiltration of politics into their escapism more than anything else. Is putting a poppy on a shirt not political? It is and most years England are prevented from doing so by uefa/fifa... They were recently granted permission for the 100th anniversary I believe? So it's ok to make players wear a poppy but players should be allowed to choose to take the knee?" They weren't made to wear it. They chose to. One of them (was it grealish?) chose not to. | |||
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"The boos are fans opposing the symbol because of what comes along with it - to say it is apolitical is highly ignorant and southgate and mings etc... telling people to educate themselves and that the booers are racist is extremely arrogant. I am an egalitarian and believe in fighting racism but i dont agree with the claims of BLMGNF and the broader movement because it is based on an americsn context and ropey interpretations of incomplete statistics. Critical Race Theory is highly flawed as a lens through which to scrutinise society and booing is a way to show that. The players could link arms in the centre instead and support "Kick it out" but they choose this instead. Eventually the knee taking will end having achieved nothing but an increase in racial tension and a media culture of click-batey race bating. Exactly this. People flock to sports for escapism from their daily routine. The last thing the majority of them want is to be preached to; they receive enough of that on a daily basis. The booing reflects the annoyance to the infiltration of politics into their escapism more than anything else. Is putting a poppy on a shirt not political? It is and most years England are prevented from doing so by uefa/fifa... They were recently granted permission for the 100th anniversary I believe? So it's ok to make players wear a poppy but players should be allowed to choose to take the knee? They weren't made to wear it. They chose to. One of them (was it grealish?) chose not to. " and it was no great drama. | |||
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"The boos are fans opposing the symbol because of what comes along with it - to say it is apolitical is highly ignorant and southgate and mings etc... telling people to educate themselves and that the booers are racist is extremely arrogant. I am an egalitarian and believe in fighting racism but i dont agree with the claims of BLMGNF and the broader movement because it is based on an americsn context and ropey interpretations of incomplete statistics. Critical Race Theory is highly flawed as a lens through which to scrutinise society and booing is a way to show that. The players could link arms in the centre instead and support "Kick it out" but they choose this instead. Eventually the knee taking will end having achieved nothing but an increase in racial tension and a media culture of click-batey race bating. Exactly this. People flock to sports for escapism from their daily routine. The last thing the majority of them want is to be preached to; they receive enough of that on a daily basis. The booing reflects the annoyance to the infiltration of politics into their escapism more than anything else. Is putting a poppy on a shirt not political? It is and most years England are prevented from doing so by uefa/fifa... They were recently granted permission for the 100th anniversary I believe? So it's ok to make players wear a poppy but players should be allowed to choose to take the knee?" Always red Lionel.. even your flower choice ... | |||
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"The boos are fans opposing the symbol because of what comes along with it - to say it is apolitical is highly ignorant and southgate and mings etc... telling people to educate themselves and that the booers are racist is extremely arrogant. I am an egalitarian and believe in fighting racism but i dont agree with the claims of BLMGNF and the broader movement because it is based on an americsn context and ropey interpretations of incomplete statistics. Critical Race Theory is highly flawed as a lens through which to scrutinise society and booing is a way to show that. The players could link arms in the centre instead and support "Kick it out" but they choose this instead. Eventually the knee taking will end having achieved nothing but an increase in racial tension and a media culture of click-batey race bating. Exactly this. People flock to sports for escapism from their daily routine. The last thing the majority of them want is to be preached to; they receive enough of that on a daily basis. The booing reflects the annoyance to the infiltration of politics into their escapism more than anything else. Is putting a poppy on a shirt not political? It is and most years England are prevented from doing so by uefa/fifa... They were recently granted permission for the 100th anniversary I believe? So it's ok to make players wear a poppy but players should be allowed to choose to take the knee? They weren't made to wear it. They chose to. One of them (was it grealish?) chose not to. " There was an Irish player who refused to wear it and caused a huge controversy. You said yourself its political so you cant have it both ways? | |||
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"The boos are fans opposing the symbol because of what comes along with it - to say it is apolitical is highly ignorant and southgate and mings etc... telling people to educate themselves and that the booers are racist is extremely arrogant. I am an egalitarian and believe in fighting racism but i dont agree with the claims of BLMGNF and the broader movement because it is based on an americsn context and ropey interpretations of incomplete statistics. Critical Race Theory is highly flawed as a lens through which to scrutinise society and booing is a way to show that. The players could link arms in the centre instead and support "Kick it out" but they choose this instead. Eventually the knee taking will end having achieved nothing but an increase in racial tension and a media culture of click-batey race bating. Exactly this. People flock to sports for escapism from their daily routine. The last thing the majority of them want is to be preached to; they receive enough of that on a daily basis. The booing reflects the annoyance to the infiltration of politics into their escapism more than anything else. Is putting a poppy on a shirt not political? It is and most years England are prevented from doing so by uefa/fifa... They were recently granted permission for the 100th anniversary I believe? So it's ok to make players wear a poppy but players should be allowed to choose to take the knee? They weren't made to wear it. They chose to. One of them (was it grealish?) chose not to. There was an Irish player who refused to wear it and caused a huge controversy. You said yourself its political so you cant have it both ways?" It's about the knee not poppies Lionel.. | |||
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"The boos are fans opposing the symbol because of what comes along with it - to say it is apolitical is highly ignorant and southgate and mings etc... telling people to educate themselves and that the booers are racist is extremely arrogant. I am an egalitarian and believe in fighting racism but i dont agree with the claims of BLMGNF and the broader movement because it is based on an americsn context and ropey interpretations of incomplete statistics. Critical Race Theory is highly flawed as a lens through which to scrutinise society and booing is a way to show that. The players could link arms in the centre instead and support "Kick it out" but they choose this instead. Eventually the knee taking will end having achieved nothing but an increase in racial tension and a media culture of click-batey race bating. Exactly this. People flock to sports for escapism from their daily routine. The last thing the majority of them want is to be preached to; they receive enough of that on a daily basis. The booing reflects the annoyance to the infiltration of politics into their escapism more than anything else. Is putting a poppy on a shirt not political? It is and most years England are prevented from doing so by uefa/fifa... They were recently granted permission for the 100th anniversary I believe? So it's ok to make players wear a poppy but players should be allowed to choose to take the knee? They weren't made to wear it. They chose to. One of them (was it grealish?) chose not to. and it was no great drama. " https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/football-league/james-mcclean-poppy-remembrance-day-stoke-city-middlesbrough-instagram-ira-bobby-sands-a8616746.html%3famp There was huge drama | |||
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"They took the knee and made there point, to which I agree but it is over a year now and I don't agree with having it rammed down our throat. It has proved at certain grounds it works but like everything in time we get bored of it." So you're bored of people taking action against racism ? I guess it's nice being on the side that has never experienced it. | |||
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"The boos are fans opposing the symbol because of what comes along with it - to say it is apolitical is highly ignorant and southgate and mings etc... telling people to educate themselves and that the booers are racist is extremely arrogant. I am an egalitarian and believe in fighting racism but i dont agree with the claims of BLMGNF and the broader movement because it is based on an americsn context and ropey interpretations of incomplete statistics. Critical Race Theory is highly flawed as a lens through which to scrutinise society and booing is a way to show that. The players could link arms in the centre instead and support "Kick it out" but they choose this instead. Eventually the knee taking will end having achieved nothing but an increase in racial tension and a media culture of click-batey race bating. Exactly this. People flock to sports for escapism from their daily routine. The last thing the majority of them want is to be preached to; they receive enough of that on a daily basis. The booing reflects the annoyance to the infiltration of politics into their escapism more than anything else. Is putting a poppy on a shirt not political? It is and most years England are prevented from doing so by uefa/fifa... They were recently granted permission for the 100th anniversary I believe? So it's ok to make players wear a poppy but players should be allowed to choose to take the knee? They weren't made to wear it. They chose to. One of them (was it grealish?) chose not to. There was an Irish player who refused to wear it and caused a huge controversy. You said yourself its political so you cant have it both ways? It's about the knee not poppies Lionel.." Both are political It's the players choice to take the knee No one is making the fans do.it. | |||
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"The boos are fans opposing the symbol because of what comes along with it - to say it is apolitical is highly ignorant and southgate and mings etc... telling people to educate themselves and that the booers are racist is extremely arrogant. I am an egalitarian and believe in fighting racism but i dont agree with the claims of BLMGNF and the broader movement because it is based on an americsn context and ropey interpretations of incomplete statistics. Critical Race Theory is highly flawed as a lens through which to scrutinise society and booing is a way to show that. The players could link arms in the centre instead and support "Kick it out" but they choose this instead. Eventually the knee taking will end having achieved nothing but an increase in racial tension and a media culture of click-batey race bating. Exactly this. People flock to sports for escapism from their daily routine. The last thing the majority of them want is to be preached to; they receive enough of that on a daily basis. The booing reflects the annoyance to the infiltration of politics into their escapism more than anything else. Is putting a poppy on a shirt not political? It is and most years England are prevented from doing so by uefa/fifa... They were recently granted permission for the 100th anniversary I believe? So it's ok to make players wear a poppy but players should be allowed to choose to take the knee? They weren't made to wear it. They chose to. One of them (was it grealish?) chose not to. There was an Irish player who refused to wear it and caused a huge controversy. You said yourself its political so you cant have it both ways? It's about the knee not poppies Lionel.. Both are political It's the players choice to take the knee No one is making the fans do.it." Do let them approve or not without judgement...let's not assume why they boo. Just accept that some boo... | |||
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"A poppy is not political. By wearing one you honour those men and women that gave their lives because diplomacy failed or madness reigned. When we wear a poppy it is not to glory in war, to celebrate victory of one political opinion over another, it is in the vain hope that we jog our collective memories to remember the pointless loss of life and remind our politicians not to fail. Lest we forget. " I think it has become political.. | |||
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"A poppy is not political. By wearing one you honour those men and women that gave their lives because diplomacy failed or madness reigned. When we wear a poppy it is not to glory in war, to celebrate victory of one political opinion over another, it is in the vain hope that we jog our collective memories to remember the pointless loss of life and remind our politicians not to fail. Lest we forget. I think it has become political.. " You think old men, who watched their brothers and friends get mown down by machine gun fire, who once a year deserve your respect and ask you a simple thing, buy a poppy, wear a poppy, your poppy stands for a beautiful life lost are political Tom? Do you really? | |||
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"A poppy is not political. By wearing one you honour those men and women that gave their lives because diplomacy failed or madness reigned. When we wear a poppy it is not to glory in war, to celebrate victory of one political opinion over another, it is in the vain hope that we jog our collective memories to remember the pointless loss of life and remind our politicians not to fail. Lest we forget. I think it has become political.. You think old men, who watched their brothers and friends get mown down by machine gun fire, who once a year deserve your respect and ask you a simple thing, buy a poppy, wear a poppy, your poppy stands for a beautiful life lost are political Tom? Do you really? " Well you choose, red poppy? White poppy? Animals poppy ? Not political.. ? Do you really think it's not political.. ? | |||
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"A poppy is not political. By wearing one you honour those men and women that gave their lives because diplomacy failed or madness reigned. When we wear a poppy it is not to glory in war, to celebrate victory of one political opinion over another, it is in the vain hope that we jog our collective memories to remember the pointless loss of life and remind our politicians not to fail. Lest we forget. I think it has become political.. You think old men, who watched their brothers and friends get mown down by machine gun fire, who once a year deserve your respect and ask you a simple thing, buy a poppy, wear a poppy, your poppy stands for a beautiful life lost are political Tom? Do you really? " The poppy has become political Try going on the bbc without one Acknowledging that doesnt mean a lack of respect. | |||
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"A poppy is not political. By wearing one you honour those men and women that gave their lives because diplomacy failed or madness reigned. When we wear a poppy it is not to glory in war, to celebrate victory of one political opinion over another, it is in the vain hope that we jog our collective memories to remember the pointless loss of life and remind our politicians not to fail. Lest we forget. I think it has become political.. You think old men, who watched their brothers and friends get mown down by machine gun fire, who once a year deserve your respect and ask you a simple thing, buy a poppy, wear a poppy, your poppy stands for a beautiful life lost are political Tom? Do you really? Well you choose, red poppy? White poppy? Animals poppy ? Not political.. ? Do you really think it's not political.. ?" When I put on a poppy Tom, it is in remembrance of those who have lost their lives, needlessly because of madness or politics or a combination of both. When I walk to to the memorial, I do not think “I’m proud to be British, what a glorious war”, I think only of those whose lives were cut short because powerful people deemed it necessary. I weep for the dead, I remember my friends I have lost, I heed the knowledge that millions of people have died because of egos and power. It matters not what colour poppy I wear, only that I remember the terrible cost of war and it’s ultimate futility and in doing so, remind myself to do what I can, as one person, to facilitate tolerance, understanding and peace. | |||
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"The boos are fans opposing the symbol because of what comes along with it - to say it is apolitical is highly ignorant and southgate and mings etc... telling people to educate themselves and that the booers are racist is extremely arrogant. I am an egalitarian and believe in fighting racism but i dont agree with the claims of BLMGNF and the broader movement because it is based on an americsn context and ropey interpretations of incomplete statistics. Critical Race Theory is highly flawed as a lens through which to scrutinise society and booing is a way to show that. The players could link arms in the centre instead and support "Kick it out" but they choose this instead. Eventually the knee taking will end having achieved nothing but an increase in racial tension and a media culture of click-batey race bating. Exactly this. People flock to sports for escapism from their daily routine. The last thing the majority of them want is to be preached to; they receive enough of that on a daily basis. The booing reflects the annoyance to the infiltration of politics into their escapism more than anything else. Is putting a poppy on a shirt not political? It is and most years England are prevented from doing so by uefa/fifa... They were recently granted permission for the 100th anniversary I believe? So it's ok to make players wear a poppy but players should be allowed to choose to take the knee? They weren't made to wear it. They chose to. One of them (was it grealish?) chose not to. There was an Irish player who refused to wear it and caused a huge controversy. You said yourself its political so you cant have it both ways?" I'm not having it anyway. If you know the answer why ask the question. Eng aren't allowed a poppy on their shirt. They... After much lobbying did it (I believe actually against fifa wishes)... Yes an Irish player refused. As was his right. How is that similar to taking a knee against racism every kickoff.? | |||
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"They took the knee and made there point, to which I agree but it is over a year now and I don't agree with having it rammed down our throat. It has proved at certain grounds it works but like everything in time we get bored of it. So you're bored of people taking action against racism ? I guess it's nice being on the side that has never experienced it. " No that isn't what he said at all.are you one of the... If you don't do it you're a racist gang? | |||
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"The boos are fans opposing the symbol because of what comes along with it - to say it is apolitical is highly ignorant and southgate and mings etc... telling people to educate themselves and that the booers are racist is extremely arrogant. I am an egalitarian and believe in fighting racism but i dont agree with the claims of BLMGNF and the broader movement because it is based on an americsn context and ropey interpretations of incomplete statistics. Critical Race Theory is highly flawed as a lens through which to scrutinise society and booing is a way to show that. The players could link arms in the centre instead and support "Kick it out" but they choose this instead. Eventually the knee taking will end having achieved nothing but an increase in racial tension and a media culture of click-batey race bating. Exactly this. People flock to sports for escapism from their daily routine. The last thing the majority of them want is to be preached to; they receive enough of that on a daily basis. The booing reflects the annoyance to the infiltration of politics into their escapism more than anything else. Is putting a poppy on a shirt not political? It is and most years England are prevented from doing so by uefa/fifa... They were recently granted permission for the 100th anniversary I believe? So it's ok to make players wear a poppy but players should be allowed to choose to take the knee? They weren't made to wear it. They chose to. One of them (was it grealish?) chose not to. There was an Irish player who refused to wear it and caused a huge controversy. You said yourself its political so you cant have it both ways? I'm not having it anyway. If you know the answer why ask the question. Eng aren't allowed a poppy on their shirt. They... After much lobbying did it (I believe actually against fifa wishes)... Yes an Irish player refused. As was his right. How is that similar to taking a knee against racism every kickoff.? " Because they are both seen as political acts | |||
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"A poppy is not political. By wearing one you honour those men and women that gave their lives because diplomacy failed or madness reigned. When we wear a poppy it is not to glory in war, to celebrate victory of one political opinion over another, it is in the vain hope that we jog our collective memories to remember the pointless loss of life and remind our politicians not to fail. Lest we forget. I think it has become political.. You think old men, who watched their brothers and friends get mown down by machine gun fire, who once a year deserve your respect and ask you a simple thing, buy a poppy, wear a poppy, your poppy stands for a beautiful life lost are political Tom? Do you really? Well you choose, red poppy? White poppy? Animals poppy ? Not political.. ? Do you really think it's not political.. ? When I put on a poppy Tom, it is in remembrance of those who have lost their lives, needlessly because of madness or politics or a combination of both. When I walk to to the memorial, I do not think “I’m proud to be British, what a glorious war”, I think only of those whose lives were cut short because powerful people deemed it necessary. I weep for the dead, I remember my friends I have lost, I heed the knowledge that millions of people have died because of egos and power. It matters not what colour poppy I wear, only that I remember the terrible cost of war and it’s ultimate futility and in doing so, remind myself to do what I can, as one person, to facilitate tolerance, understanding and peace. " And you are not alone but one of the few | |||
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"The boos are fans opposing the symbol because of what comes along with it - to say it is apolitical is highly ignorant and southgate and mings etc... telling people to educate themselves and that the booers are racist is extremely arrogant. I am an egalitarian and believe in fighting racism but i dont agree with the claims of BLMGNF and the broader movement because it is based on an americsn context and ropey interpretations of incomplete statistics. Critical Race Theory is highly flawed as a lens through which to scrutinise society and booing is a way to show that. The players could link arms in the centre instead and support "Kick it out" but they choose this instead. Eventually the knee taking will end having achieved nothing but an increase in racial tension and a media culture of click-batey race bating. Exactly this. People flock to sports for escapism from their daily routine. The last thing the majority of them want is to be preached to; they receive enough of that on a daily basis. The booing reflects the annoyance to the infiltration of politics into their escapism more than anything else. Is putting a poppy on a shirt not political? It is and most years England are prevented from doing so by uefa/fifa... They were recently granted permission for the 100th anniversary I believe? So it's ok to make players wear a poppy but players should be allowed to choose to take the knee? They weren't made to wear it. They chose to. One of them (was it grealish?) chose not to. There was an Irish player who refused to wear it and caused a huge controversy. You said yourself its political so you cant have it both ways? I'm not having it anyway. If you know the answer why ask the question. Eng aren't allowed a poppy on their shirt. They... After much lobbying did it (I believe actually against fifa wishes)... Yes an Irish player refused. As was his right. How is that similar to taking a knee against racism every kickoff.? Because they are both seen as political acts " And in a free country people have the right to boo... | |||
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"If I walked out onto a pitch and told the spectators "You are the problem" I'd get booed. No matter how valid the point was." Totally get that... | |||
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"Critical Race Theory is highly flawed as a lens through which to scrutinise society and booing is a way to show that. I doubt if these people booing could spell Critical Race Theory, even if they knew what it meant. Really? Do you know them? It's a massive assumption you're making there. Do you genuinly England fans are booing as they dont agree with critical race theory?" They are presumably booing virtue signalling players earning 250k a week taking a knee for BLM - a Marxist organisation who want to defund the police and break up the nuclear family . Football fans aren’t as silly as some on here are making out to be. They are entitled to their opinion just as much and maybe more than the players. | |||
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"Critical Race Theory is highly flawed as a lens through which to scrutinise society and booing is a way to show that. I doubt if these people booing could spell Critical Race Theory, even if they knew what it meant. Really? Do you know them? It's a massive assumption you're making there. Do you genuinly England fans are booing as they dont agree with critical race theory? They are presumably booing virtue signalling players earning 250k a week taking a knee for BLM - a Marxist organisation who want to defund the police and break up the nuclear family . Football fans aren’t as silly as some on here are making out to be. They are entitled to their opinion just as much and maybe more than the players." Thanks for proving my above point and post… you have managed to create your own narratives to justify your own point of view… but you both are not listening to what the actual people doing said action are saying! | |||
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"If someone is complaining about not wanting to see "the taking of the knee" in football or any other sport they are wittingly or unwittingly demonstrating the privilege of power, and quite possibly the very power that the person is taking a knee against. It's the equivalent of putting your hands over your face and saying "la la la, I can't see you". That is not the language of the ally. At the least, it's the language of a neutral party. At the worst, an oppressor. The problem is neutrality. It helps the oppressor. Blaise Pascal once said; "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has it's foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality..." I'll add further to his quote. "The Elephant however, is thankful for your non-intervention". " It's the opposite of covering your eyes and saying I can't see you. It's saying I can see you and I don't appreciate what you're doing and I don't wish to be allied with the symbolism. As I posted above, if they chose a different way to ask for a demonstration of support for change and equality it may be better supported and not booed. Anyway you paint it... If the message... Whatever they may think it is.. Is being booed.. Its crystal clear that particular message is not supported. So don't turn it into a test of metal, as that is in itself divisive. Which is entirely counter productive. The issue with a symbol is its ambiguity. Keep doing it, keep getting booed and ask if that is helping to make a change for the better. | |||
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"If someone is complaining about not wanting to see "the taking of the knee" in football or any other sport they are wittingly or unwittingly demonstrating the privilege of power, and quite possibly the very power that the person is taking a knee against. It's the equivalent of putting your hands over your face and saying "la la la, I can't see you". That is not the language of the ally. At the least, it's the language of a neutral party. At the worst, an oppressor. The problem is neutrality. It helps the oppressor. Blaise Pascal once said; "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has it's foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality..." I'll add further to his quote. "The Elephant however, is thankful for your non-intervention". It's the opposite of covering your eyes and saying I can't see you. It's saying I can see you and I don't appreciate what you're doing and I don't wish to be allied with the symbolism. As I posted above, if they chose a different way to ask for a demonstration of support for change and equality it may be better supported and not booed. Anyway you paint it... If the message... Whatever they may think it is.. Is being booed.. Its crystal clear that particular message is not supported. So don't turn it into a test of metal, as that is in itself divisive. Which is entirely counter productive. The issue with a symbol is its ambiguity. Keep doing it, keep getting booed and ask if that is helping to make a change for the better. " It is a peaceful way of demonstrating and if it stops just because some people who don't agree with it boo then those same people will say 'Looks like it's not that important an issue coz they've stopped'. They'll never be a right way to stand up against racism as people who don't really get affected by it will always shoot down any form of demonstration. | |||
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"Quote shocking to see Tory MP, Brendan Clarke-Smith, comparing taking a knee before matches in solidarity against racism, to England players giving Nazi salutes before a game in Berlin against Germany in 1938. Utter ignorance and demonstrates exactly why taking a knee or any other visual stand against racism is so badly needed. Anyone booing and crybabying over it needs to check their privilege " Nailed it | |||
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"Quote shocking to see Tory MP, Brendan Clarke-Smith, comparing taking a knee before matches in solidarity against racism, to England players giving Nazi salutes before a game in Berlin against Germany in 1938. Utter ignorance and demonstrates exactly why taking a knee or any other visual stand against racism is so badly needed. Anyone booing and crybabying over it needs to check their privilege " He is a Tory Are you really shocked? Even if you accept the rather tenuous argument that the fans are booing it as they dont agree with the political aims of the blm movement, the players are taking the knee because they are opposing racism.So if they think booing something which the players have openly decided they want to do,is going to stop it,they are in for a shock. | |||
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"Quote shocking to see Tory MP, Brendan Clarke-Smith, comparing taking a knee before matches in solidarity against racism, to England players giving Nazi salutes before a game in Berlin against Germany in 1938. Utter ignorance and demonstrates exactly why taking a knee or any other visual stand against racism is so badly needed. Anyone booing and crybabying over it needs to check their privilege He is a Tory Are you really shocked? Even if you accept the rather tenuous argument that the fans are booing it as they dont agree with the political aims of the blm movement, the players are taking the knee because they are opposing racism.So if they think booing something which the players have openly decided they want to do,is going to stop it,they are in for a shock." Well no, I'm not shocked but it still left a nasty taste in my mouth. I think part of the problem is that taking a knee is seen as an act of submission. Yes there are those who will dress it up as disliking the assumed left wing political agenda of BLM but really I think it's more about the gammon mentality of "Why should I feel guilty for what my ancestors did" and seeing any notion of of addressing racial inequality as self-flagellation. | |||
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"Players linking arms for the Kick it Out campaign were cheered Players taking a knee for BLM are boo'd It's fairly obvious what the fans don't like about taking the knee and it's association with a far left political organisation " See that's where you're wrong. Taking the knee is not for BLM it's about racial inequality | |||
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"Players linking arms for the Kick it Out campaign were cheered Players taking a knee for BLM are boo'd It's fairly obvious what the fans don't like about taking the knee and it's association with a far left political organisation See that's where you're wrong. Taking the knee is not for BLM it's about racial inequality " That's why I said it's association with BLM Link arms for the Kick it Out campaign and receive cheers from the crowd again. Simple | |||
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"Players linking arms for the Kick it Out campaign were cheered Players taking a knee for BLM are boo'd It's fairly obvious what the fans don't like about taking the knee and it's association with a far left political organisation See that's where you're wrong. Taking the knee is not for BLM it's about racial inequality " It really is that simple | |||
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"Players linking arms for the Kick it Out campaign were cheered Players taking a knee for BLM are boo'd It's fairly obvious what the fans don't like about taking the knee and it's association with a far left political organisation See that's where you're wrong. Taking the knee is not for BLM it's about racial inequality That's why I said it's association with BLM Link arms for the Kick it Out campaign and receive cheers from the crowd again. Simple " Again it is not in association with BLM it's about RACIAL INEQUALITY and not just towards black people. So you're saying we should demonstrate or stand against racism in a way that will please certain people and get their approval by them clapping hands and when they decide they don't like the way it's being done it has to change to a way they approve of? | |||
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"Well I would definiy not boo the knee or wear a poppy although I do put my thruppence in the poppy tin. My point is this. I don't need to wear a poppy to remember and I don't need to kneel to support equality." I agree with that statement tom | |||
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"The boos are fans opposing the symbol because of what comes along with it Completely disagree with this, they know exactly what they're booing " I think you're giving them too much credit to be honest. | |||
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"Players linking arms for the Kick it Out campaign were cheered Players taking a knee for BLM are boo'd It's fairly obvious what the fans don't like about taking the knee and it's association with a far left political organisation See that's where you're wrong. Taking the knee is not for BLM it's about racial inequality That's why I said it's association with BLM Link arms for the Kick it Out campaign and receive cheers from the crowd again. Simple Again it is not in association with BLM it's about RACIAL INEQUALITY and not just towards black people. So you're saying we should demonstrate or stand against racism in a way that will please certain people and get their approval by them clapping hands and when they decide they don't like the way it's being done it has to change to a way they approve of?" The players can demonstrate however they like for all I care but the fans see the taking of the knee as being associated with BLM Take away that association by linking arms as per the Kick it Out campaign and the fans will cheer again | |||
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"Players linking arms for the Kick it Out campaign were cheered Players taking a knee for BLM are boo'd It's fairly obvious what the fans don't like about taking the knee and it's association with a far left political organisation See that's where you're wrong. Taking the knee is not for BLM it's about racial inequality That's why I said it's association with BLM Link arms for the Kick it Out campaign and receive cheers from the crowd again. Simple Again it is not in association with BLM it's about RACIAL INEQUALITY and not just towards black people. So you're saying we should demonstrate or stand against racism in a way that will please certain people and get their approval by them clapping hands and when they decide they don't like the way it's being done it has to change to a way they approve of?" Errr yes. Isn't it better that the people whose support you are garnering agree with the message and the method? Is it not better that you continually refresh the "advertising" of your message.? Or do you think continually banging the same tired drum will succeed. To use the poppy... The adverts for that are refreshed every year. | |||
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"Players linking arms for the Kick it Out campaign were cheered Players taking a knee for BLM are boo'd It's fairly obvious what the fans don't like about taking the knee and it's association with a far left political organisation See that's where you're wrong. Taking the knee is not for BLM it's about racial inequality It really is that simple "Yes it's that simple. Keep doing what you're doing.. And keep getting the same outcome. | |||
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"Players linking arms for the Kick it Out campaign were cheered Players taking a knee for BLM are boo'd It's fairly obvious what the fans don't like about taking the knee and it's association with a far left political organisation See that's where you're wrong. Taking the knee is not for BLM it's about racial inequality It really is that simple "And... When it started it was 100 per cent to support blm .. Not #kio | |||
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"The boos are fans opposing the symbol because of what comes along with it - to say it is apolitical is highly ignorant and southgate and mings etc... telling people to educate themselves and that the booers are racist is extremely arrogant. I am an egalitarian and believe in fighting racism but i dont agree with the claims of BLMGNF and the broader movement because it is based on an americsn context and ropey interpretations of incomplete statistics. Critical Race Theory is highly flawed as a lens through which to scrutinise society and booing is a way to show that. The players could link arms in the centre instead and support "Kick it out" but they choose this instead. Eventually the knee taking will end having achieved nothing but an increase in racial tension and a media culture of click-batey race bating. Exactly this. People flock to sports for escapism from their daily routine. The last thing the majority of them want is to be preached to; they receive enough of that on a daily basis. The booing reflects the annoyance to the infiltration of politics into their escapism more than anything else." Without doubt that’s the way I feel. I want a escape from the real world for a while. F1 is doing the same and it’s turning me off it. By all means preach what they feel in a separate platform but please keep it away now from my escape. | |||
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"The boos are fans opposing the symbol because of what comes along with it - to say it is apolitical is highly ignorant and southgate and mings etc... telling people to educate themselves and that the booers are racist is extremely arrogant. I am an egalitarian and believe in fighting racism but i dont agree with the claims of BLMGNF and the broader movement because it is based on an americsn context and ropey interpretations of incomplete statistics. Critical Race Theory is highly flawed as a lens through which to scrutinise society and booing is a way to show that. The players could link arms in the centre instead and support "Kick it out" but they choose this instead. Eventually the knee taking will end having achieved nothing but an increase in racial tension and a media culture of click-batey race bating. Exactly this. People flock to sports for escapism from their daily routine. The last thing the majority of them want is to be preached to; they receive enough of that on a daily basis. The booing reflects the annoyance to the infiltration of politics into their escapism more than anything else. Without doubt that’s the way I feel. I want a escape from the real world for a while. F1 is doing the same and it’s turning me off it. By all means preach what they feel in a separate platform but please keep it away now from my escape. " For the professional sports people, it is their real world. In effect it's their workplace, why should the accept abusive racism in their workplace, so as not to spoil it for you? What they are simply doing is pointing this out. Do you not think it's somewhat entitled of you to say they should not draw attention to this? | |||
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"The boos are fans opposing the symbol because of what comes along with it - to say it is apolitical is highly ignorant and southgate and mings etc... telling people to educate themselves and that the booers are racist is extremely arrogant. I am an egalitarian and believe in fighting racism but i dont agree with the claims of BLMGNF and the broader movement because it is based on an americsn context and ropey interpretations of incomplete statistics. Critical Race Theory is highly flawed as a lens through which to scrutinise society and booing is a way to show that. The players could link arms in the centre instead and support "Kick it out" but they choose this instead. Eventually the knee taking will end having achieved nothing but an increase in racial tension and a media culture of click-batey race bating. Exactly this. People flock to sports for escapism from their daily routine. The last thing the majority of them want is to be preached to; they receive enough of that on a daily basis. The booing reflects the annoyance to the infiltration of politics into their escapism more than anything else. Without doubt that’s the way I feel. I want a escape from the real world for a while. F1 is doing the same and it’s turning me off it. By all means preach what they feel in a separate platform but please keep it away now from my escape. For the professional sports people, it is their real world. In effect it's their workplace, why should the accept abusive racism in their workplace, so as not to spoil it for you? What they are simply doing is pointing this out. Do you not think it's somewhat entitled of you to say they should not draw attention to this?" Seeing I don’t practice racism and don’t see it it is hard to carry any sympathy for them. | |||
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"Players linking arms for the Kick it Out campaign were cheered Players taking a knee for BLM are boo'd It's fairly obvious what the fans don't like about taking the knee and it's association with a far left political organisation See that's where you're wrong. Taking the knee is not for BLM it's about racial inequality That's why I said it's association with BLM Link arms for the Kick it Out campaign and receive cheers from the crowd again. Simple Again it is not in association with BLM it's about RACIAL INEQUALITY and not just towards black people. So you're saying we should demonstrate or stand against racism in a way that will please certain people and get their approval by them clapping hands and when they decide they don't like the way it's being done it has to change to a way they approve of? Errr yes. Isn't it better that the people whose support you are garnering agree with the message and the method? Is it not better that you continually refresh the "advertising" of your message.? Or do you think continually banging the same tired drum will succeed. To use the poppy... The adverts for that are refreshed every year. " The poppy and standing up against racism are two different things. Taking the knee is not advertising a message it's a statement to say we stand together against racial inequality. This is not being done to get the approval of those who boo,if someone has already decided that they'll boo or throw bananas at Black players you can't change that person's mind. The fact that you look at this as advertising is worrying but at the end of the day that's how you see it | |||
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" Seeing I don’t practice racism and don’t see it it is hard to carry any sympathy for them. " Incredible really that someone feels comfortable to post this. | |||
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"The boos are fans opposing the symbol because of what comes along with it - to say it is apolitical is highly ignorant and southgate and mings etc... telling people to educate themselves and that the booers are racist is extremely arrogant. I am an egalitarian and believe in fighting racism but i dont agree with the claims of BLMGNF and the broader movement because it is based on an americsn context and ropey interpretations of incomplete statistics. Critical Race Theory is highly flawed as a lens through which to scrutinise society and booing is a way to show that. The players could link arms in the centre instead and support "Kick it out" but they choose this instead. Eventually the knee taking will end having achieved nothing but an increase in racial tension and a media culture of click-batey race bating. Exactly this. People flock to sports for escapism from their daily routine. The last thing the majority of them want is to be preached to; they receive enough of that on a daily basis. The booing reflects the annoyance to the infiltration of politics into their escapism more than anything else. Without doubt that’s the way I feel. I want a escape from the real world for a while. F1 is doing the same and it’s turning me off it. By all means preach what they feel in a separate platform but please keep it away now from my escape. " Here is an idea for you MR ESCAPE, why don't you start watching the game after they take the knee and the F1 race after the formation lap | |||
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"The boos are fans opposing the symbol because of what comes along with it - to say it is apolitical is highly ignorant and southgate and mings etc... telling people to educate themselves and that the booers are racist is extremely arrogant. I am an egalitarian and believe in fighting racism but i dont agree with the claims of BLMGNF and the broader movement because it is based on an americsn context and ropey interpretations of incomplete statistics. Critical Race Theory is highly flawed as a lens through which to scrutinise society and booing is a way to show that. The players could link arms in the centre instead and support "Kick it out" but they choose this instead. Eventually the knee taking will end having achieved nothing but an increase in racial tension and a media culture of click-batey race bating." | |||
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"The players can demonstrate however they like for all I care but the fans see the taking of the knee as being associated with BLM Take away that association by linking arms as per the Kick it Out campaign and the fans will cheer again " If people are dumb enough to equate a sign or symbol to something when they have be explicitly told that it’s not… that’s not the fault of the players! If fans want to make up their own narrative when they have been told it’s nothing to do with that.. again not on the players! | |||
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"I heard the argument about football being escapism on the radio yesterday when listening to LBC yesterday when they did an hour on Ollie Robinson, leading into an hour on taking the knee. Football players do a job. To loads it’s a dream job but it’s still a job. Should they be abused at their job? If they go home after doing their job why should they have to turn on their phones to hundreds, sometimes thousands of vile, abusive messages, comment tags and tweets If they are reminded of their blackness, and with it their perceived standing in society, at every chance, when do they have an opportunity for escapism? " I don't think anyone on here or in any other forum is suggesting substantial changes are needed to achieve equality and address racism. The point I believe that is being discussed is whether taking the knee remains the best way to deliver that change. | |||
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"I heard the argument about football being escapism on the radio yesterday when listening to LBC yesterday when they did an hour on Ollie Robinson, leading into an hour on taking the knee. Football players do a job. To loads it’s a dream job but it’s still a job. Should they be abused at their job? If they go home after doing their job why should they have to turn on their phones to hundreds, sometimes thousands of vile, abusive messages, comment tags and tweets If they are reminded of their blackness, and with it their perceived standing in society, at every chance, when do they have an opportunity for escapism? I don't think anyone on here or in any other forum is suggesting substantial changes are needed to achieve equality and address racism. The point I believe that is being discussed is whether taking the knee remains the best way to deliver that change. " Substantial change IS required though IMO. This thread, as with many before it show that. The knee isn’t designed to deliver change though IMO. As such, from where I’m sitting the knee is achieving its intended purpose of being used as a symbol to highlight the need for change, the need for discussion and starting that discussion. What we then need is the people with the ability to make and enforce change to do so accordingly. | |||
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"The players can demonstrate however they like for all I care but the fans see the taking of the knee as being associated with BLM Take away that association by linking arms as per the Kick it Out campaign and the fans will cheer again If people are dumb enough to equate a sign or symbol to something when they have be explicitly told that it’s not… that’s not the fault of the players! If fans want to make up their own narrative when they have been told it’s nothing to do with that.. again not on the players! " But that gets us precisely nowhere The genie is out of the bottle and whether people like it or not I suspect that the fans now equate BLM with riots, defunding the police, attacking the police and graffiti on the Churchill statue I'm just telling you why I think they're booing and as I have said numerous times when the players link arms as per the Kick it Out campaign the crowds cheer | |||
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"I heard the argument about football being escapism on the radio yesterday when listening to LBC yesterday when they did an hour on Ollie Robinson, leading into an hour on taking the knee. Football players do a job. To loads it’s a dream job but it’s still a job. Should they be abused at their job? If they go home after doing their job why should they have to turn on their phones to hundreds, sometimes thousands of vile, abusive messages, comment tags and tweets If they are reminded of their blackness, and with it their perceived standing in society, at every chance, when do they have an opportunity for escapism? I don't think anyone on here or in any other forum is suggesting substantial changes are needed to achieve equality and address racism. The point I believe that is being discussed is whether taking the knee remains the best way to deliver that change. Substantial change IS required though IMO. This thread, as with many before it show that. The knee isn’t designed to deliver change though IMO. As such, from where I’m sitting the knee is achieving its intended purpose of being used as a symbol to highlight the need for change, the need for discussion and starting that discussion. What we then need is the people with the ability to make and enforce change to do so accordingly." Yes apologies a mistype from this keyboard warrior... I meant to type "I don't think anyone on here or in any other forum is suggesting substantial changes are NOT needed..." (inserted NOT) | |||
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"The players can demonstrate however they like for all I care but the fans see the taking of the knee as being associated with BLM Take away that association by linking arms as per the Kick it Out campaign and the fans will cheer again If people are dumb enough to equate a sign or symbol to something when they have be explicitly told that it’s not… that’s not the fault of the players! If fans want to make up their own narrative when they have been told it’s nothing to do with that.. again not on the players! But that gets us precisely nowhere The genie is out of the bottle and whether people like it or not I suspect that the fans now equate BLM with riots, defunding the police, attacking the police and graffiti on the Churchill statue I'm just telling you why I think they're booing and as I have said numerous times when the players link arms as per the Kick it Out campaign the crowds cheer" How many years has kick it out been going.. and what result has it had so far… And before kick it out it was show racism the red card.. and what result did that get… At least the knee sparks conversation…. If you want something sanitised that doesn’t offend your sensibilities.. talk to black football players and black football fans about our experiences and I would be willing to bet you we all have stories | |||
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"The players can demonstrate however they like for all I care but the fans see the taking of the knee as being associated with BLM Take away that association by linking arms as per the Kick it Out campaign and the fans will cheer again If people are dumb enough to equate a sign or symbol to something when they have be explicitly told that it’s not… that’s not the fault of the players! If fans want to make up their own narrative when they have been told it’s nothing to do with that.. again not on the players! But that gets us precisely nowhere The genie is out of the bottle and whether people like it or not I suspect that the fans now equate BLM with riots, defunding the police, attacking the police and graffiti on the Churchill statue I'm just telling you why I think they're booing and as I have said numerous times when the players link arms as per the Kick it Out campaign the crowds cheer How many years has kick it out been going.. and what result has it had so far… And before kick it out it was show racism the red card.. and what result did that get… At least the knee sparks conversation…. If you want something sanitised that doesn’t offend your sensibilities.. talk to black football players and black football fans about our experiences and I would be willing to bet you we all have stories " I personally think it's change that's needed... Not awareness... Not conversations... Changes... Fifa / uefa / the fa... The ecb... Let's see black umpires and coaches and medics and physios... Stop talking and start doing. Nobody is denting change is needed. So bloody well make the changes... The irony of the ecb investigating players for racist comments, while being sued by John holder for racism can't be lost. | |||
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"The players can demonstrate however they like for all I care but the fans see the taking of the knee as being associated with BLM Take away that association by linking arms as per the Kick it Out campaign and the fans will cheer again If people are dumb enough to equate a sign or symbol to something when they have be explicitly told that it’s not… that’s not the fault of the players! If fans want to make up their own narrative when they have been told it’s nothing to do with that.. again not on the players! But that gets us precisely nowhere The genie is out of the bottle and whether people like it or not I suspect that the fans now equate BLM with riots, defunding the police, attacking the police and graffiti on the Churchill statue I'm just telling you why I think they're booing and as I have said numerous times when the players link arms as per the Kick it Out campaign the crowds cheer How many years has kick it out been going.. and what result has it had so far… And before kick it out it was show racism the red card.. and what result did that get… At least the knee sparks conversation…. If you want something sanitised that doesn’t offend your sensibilities.. talk to black football players and black football fans about our experiences and I would be willing to bet you we all have stories " It doesn't offend my sensibilities and you just seem to want to find an enemy when in fact you have an ally and that's just another casualty in all this | |||
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"I'm looking forward to the day a black woman manages a mens' team. " Or a gay premier player can be open about their sexuality But hey, we only have two knees so wait your turn  | |||
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"The change needed isn’t for the sporting bodies to lead. At grassroots level many are doing those initiatives. I’m aware of a lot that the FA do locally here in Essex and also on a national level for example. That’s only one small part. The changes needed are societal and educational and because of that we won’t see a shift for at least 3 generations IMO. We see examples every day of this in the work place, on social media, on here. For example when initiatives encouraging minorities or female engagement or uptake are rolled out they are met with resentment or the usual ‘imagine if they run a whites only discount/course’ "If only it will be 3 generations. How long has it been so far, centuries? In fairness, change is accelerating, but to reach all the corners of this country is going to take much longer than that. It's been a couple of generations since the Race Relations Act, and I don't believe there has been a seismic shift in people's attitudes over that time. | |||
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"Anyone Booing that is a racist to begin with and as such need to be highlighted. So no, do not edit out the boos, it's exactly why the players are taking a knee against is it not,,? " How do you know why they are booing and that the reason they are booing is because they are all racists? | |||
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"Anyone Booing that is a racist to begin with and as such need to be highlighted. So no, do not edit out the boos, it's exactly why the players are taking a knee against is it not,,? How do you know why they are booing and that the reason they are booing is because they are all racists? " To add confusion to the mix, I was listening to a sport's radio broadcast the other day and a caller said that the people who were applauding at an event he was at were actually clapping the people booing. He thought it was because people booing were being picked up on the cameras and didn't want to be singled out. Racists will always find a way  | |||
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"And how do we know the boos are from racists.. ?" it’s the same lot that boo another country’s national anthem that’s the mentality of football fans (not all fans btw) | |||
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"Did any of them take the knee for Lee Rigby. Or people who died for our country in service. NO. so why should anyone take the knee for anything else. Even some black players are not doing it." Or Jo Cox | |||
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"The boos are for taking the knee. If they linked arms in the centre circle far fewer would object" Seems that the knee isn’t the issue | |||
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"This isn’t about individual instances. Naturally some hit harder than others, and highlight the issues on a larger scale. This is about widespread, systemic issues of injustice and discrimination throughout the world by minorities and people of colour. In different countries the injustices might vary in nature, but the themes are consistent." And we had them on these shores also. The Highland Clearances, the ban on Welsh speaking in schools, the slaughter of the druids.. Oliver Cromwell in Ireland... All were tragic | |||
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" It's all about perception and association and as long as some people associate "the knee" with the BLM movement there are those who will disagree with it. That doesn't make that person a racist. " I've said this so many times. People are now aware of the ideology behind BLM and they're making their feelings known I wonder how many have actually visited and read their website. Although they have recently removed a lot of the content in order to hide what they are really about | |||
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"Perhaps it's time for something new, perhaps they could wear a sign that was used as a symbol of divinity and spirituality in Indian religions, including Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism. Oh no, that's a swastika. It's all about perception and association and as long as some people associate "the knee" with the BLM movement there are those who will disagree with it. That doesn't make that person a racist. " Yep. The meaning is subjective because socially mediated and constructed meaning depends upon a consensus over a large majority - it then becomes the normative reading and the connotations become established. Taking a knee was recently used by Colin Kapaernik as a way of rejecting the national anthem of a "systemically racist country". This was inspired by MLKs famous image of kneeling in prayer during the civil rights protests - a pacifist gesture of defiance. This has been coopted by BLMGNF and now peoplenare trying to apply kneeling more broadly and in inappropriate settings. Nothing I am saying is racist. Many egalitarian and anti-racism advocates like myself dislike the way taking a knee has been used and how it is sneaking Critical Race Theory in through the back door. I am well educated and understand the issues. Tyrone Mings telling me I don't understand semiotics is like me telling him he doesn't understand how to defend from a corner. | |||
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"And where does the money go. Is BLM a registered charity and are they audited and publish accounts " There's a lady on YouTube who has spent the last year trying to find out where the money has gone. She still cant find it. People are starting to ask questions in America and several of their leaders have recently resigned | |||
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"Gareth Southgate says the team has decided to do it as a group.. Not sure if he means by majority of 100% agreement. If one person in the group decided not to do it would the others support that decision? " If that is your take from the dear England open letter… then I think you are being seriously disingenuous at best and trolling for entertainment at worst So which is it | |||
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"Gareth Southgate says the team has decided to do it as a group.. Not sure if he means by majority of 100% agreement. If one person in the group decided not to do it would the others support that decision? The open letter quite cleverly avoids the issue while being very reasonably worded If that is your take from the dear England open letter… then I think you are being seriously disingenuous at best and trolling for entertainment at worst So which is it " The open letter quite cleverly avoids the issue while being very reasonably worded | |||
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"Gareth Southgate says the team has decided to do it as a group.. Not sure if he means by majority of 100% agreement. If one person in the group decided not to do it would the others support that decision? The open letter quite cleverly avoids the issue while being very reasonably worded If that is your take from the dear England open letter… then I think you are being seriously disingenuous at best and trolling for entertainment at worst So which is it The open letter quite cleverly avoids the issue while being very reasonably worded " Open letter?.written by? | |||
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"Gareth Southgate says the team has decided to do it as a group.. Not sure if he means by majority of 100% agreement. If one person in the group decided not to do it would the others support that decision? The open letter quite cleverly avoids the issue while being very reasonably worded If that is your take from the dear England open letter… then I think you are being seriously disingenuous at best and trolling for entertainment at worst So which is it The open letter quite cleverly avoids the issue while being very reasonably worded Open letter?.written by?" Southgate | |||
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"I wont bend the knee to no one apart god himself ,all this blm crap," So you won’t bend the knee for equality for black people, but you will bend the knee for the invisible sky fairy. Interesting. | |||
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"Did any of them take the knee for Lee Rigby. Or people who died for our country in service. NO. so why should anyone take the knee for anything else. Even some black players are not doing it." We have a national day of remembrance for our fallen. | |||
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"Did any of them take the knee for Lee Rigby. Or people who died for our country in service. NO. so why should anyone take the knee for anything else. Even some black players are not doing it. We have a national day of remembrance for our fallen. " | |||
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"To the OPs question - no, they shouldn't edit it. Imo football should take a leaf out of F1's book and make a more inclusive gesture at the beginning of games." Many are doing "stand against racism" like scotland....except scotland have been bullied about it and have now said they'll kneel at Wembley...ridiculous. | |||
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"Looking forward to supporting those famously Marxist players on sunday! Hopefully Harry Kane will give a lecture on Das Kapital afterwards, and I hear Jordan Henderson is working on an Engels biography. " 
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"The taking of the knee has been inextricably linked with BLM which is why I think there has been boos as. Take away that link, do people on here genuinely believe that a positive gesture against racial inequality is really that offensive? If so you are maybe why the gesture is needed. Having seen and heard the most horrific racial abuse at football matches sadly there is still a lot of education required. Let's judge people on the strength of their character not the colour of their skin." Of course there's a massive need for better education and culture and environment regarding racial equality / inequality. But I just don't get how this gesture at an elite football pitch achieves it.... Multimillionaire footballers arriving in their lamborghinis and Bentleys who earn more in a week than most of the working class supporters do in a lifetime asking them to support equality... | |||
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"The taking of the knee has been inextricably linked with BLM which is why I think there has been boos as. Take away that link, do people on here genuinely believe that a positive gesture against racial inequality is really that offensive? If so you are maybe why the gesture is needed. Having seen and heard the most horrific racial abuse at football matches sadly there is still a lot of education required. Let's judge people on the strength of their character not the colour of their skin. Of course there's a massive need for better education and culture and environment regarding racial equality / inequality. But I just don't get how this gesture at an elite football pitch achieves it.... Multimillionaire footballers arriving in their lamborghinis and Bentleys who earn more in a week than most of the working class supporters do in a lifetime asking them to support equality..." Regardless of of you mixing racial equality with financial equality ....Are you suggesting that wealthy people cant support equality? Surely thats actually great and the point - that people from all backgrounds support equality. | |||
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"Gareth Southgate says the team has decided to do it as a group.. Not sure if he means by majority of 100% agreement. If one person in the group decided not to do it would the others support that decision? The open letter quite cleverly avoids the issue while being very reasonably worded If that is your take from the dear England open letter… then I think you are being seriously disingenuous at best and trolling for entertainment at worst So which is it The open letter quite cleverly avoids the issue while being very reasonably worded Open letter?.written by? Southgate I find it interesting that the OP started a thread about a subject without knowing where the topic came from as a reference to making his opinions known… Isn’t that like the ultimate troll move…..  "It's all over the news .. Discuss freely | |||
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"It’s seems that to many people talking about racism is more divisive and controversial than the actual racism " So we should not discuss ? | |||
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"It’s seems that to many people talking about racism is more divisive and controversial than the actual racism " Not really | |||
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"It’s seems that to many people talking about racism is more divisive and controversial than the actual racism Not really " So Lionel is actually agreeing with Essex Tom ? | |||
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"Don't think anyone has done more to address financial inequality over the past 18 months than Marcus Rashford." No he has been outstanding. I loved when Johnson tried to buy him a knighthood and he just carried on. His mum must be very proud of the lad  | |||
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"It’s seems that to many people talking about racism is more divisive and controversial than the actual racism Not really So Lionel is actually agreeing with Essex Tom ?" Nah cant see that | |||
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"It’s seems that to many people talking about racism is more divisive and controversial than the actual racism Not really So Lionel is actually agreeing with Essex Tom ? Nah cant see that " he is | |||
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"The taking of the knee has been inextricably linked with BLM which is why I think there has been boos as. Take away that link, do people on here genuinely believe that a positive gesture against racial inequality is really that offensive? If so you are maybe why the gesture is needed. Having seen and heard the most horrific racial abuse at football matches sadly there is still a lot of education required. Let's judge people on the strength of their character not the colour of their skin. Of course there's a massive need for better education and culture and environment regarding racial equality / inequality. But I just don't get how this gesture at an elite football pitch achieves it.... Multimillionaire footballers arriving in their lamborghinis and Bentleys who earn more in a week than most of the working class supporters do in a lifetime asking them to support equality..." Quite a few of them do a tremendous amount for local charities which doesmt really get publicised. | |||
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