FabSwingers.com mobile

Join us FREE, we're FREE to use

Web's largest swingers site since 2006.

Already registered?
Login here

Back to forum list
Back to The Lounge

Ch ch ch changes

Jump to newest
 

By *ea monkey OP   Man
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)

Following on from the various threads regarding the evils of SM and the various ‘isms’ within society, I’ve noticed that there seems to be a consistent issue running throughout; the concept of change.

Do you believe that a person is capable of change and can grow/alter over time?

If a person is a liar, cheat, racist, bigot, are they that way for life and they’re not going to be redeemed?

What do you think is needed for a person to change?

Thoughts folks?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A traumatic event! I believe it's very rare people change. Just had this conversation with a good friend this weekend. Their priorities change, their appearance and energy but the core stays the same in my opinion. Unless something deeply shit happens and becomes a catalyst for transformation. Whether internal or external..

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *hrista BellendWoman
over a year ago

surrounded by twinkly lights

Yes they can change, but they really need to Want To change and that's not common at all

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *emorefridaCouple
over a year ago

La la land

I think people can change, but I think most don't want to put the hard work into it to make it happen.

I believe most people don't want to hold up the mirror to themselves and hold themselves accountable for their own behaviour. Because it's blinking hard and most will only do it when they have no other option.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think people can change, but I think most don't want to put the hard work into it to make it happen.

I believe most people don't want to hold up the mirror to themselves and hold themselves accountable for their own behaviour. Because it's blinking hard and most will only do it when they have no other option.

"

Boom! This.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 07/06/21 09:58:44]

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To expand on my thoughts.. after excellent comment from Frida.. changes always have to come from within and self determination combined with perseverance is so hard to pull through. So I guess that's why it's rare.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ea monkey OP   Man
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)


"A traumatic event! I believe it's very rare people change. Just had this conversation with a good friend this weekend. Their priorities change, their appearance and energy but the core stays the same in my opinion. Unless something deeply shit happens and becomes a catalyst for transformation. Whether internal or external.."

I can see your point, I think that it depends what’s changing and how much of a core value it is

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *AURA6969TV/TS
over a year ago

RUGBY

Got that tune going through my head now

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think people can change, but I think most don't want to put the hard work into it to make it happen.

I believe most people don't want to hold up the mirror to themselves and hold themselves accountable for their own behaviour. Because it's blinking hard and most will only do it when they have no other option.

"

Very much so. The hardest part is getting people to know they need to change.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"A traumatic event! I believe it's very rare people change. Just had this conversation with a good friend this weekend. Their priorities change, their appearance and energy but the core stays the same in my opinion. Unless something deeply shit happens and becomes a catalyst for transformation. Whether internal or external.."

This 100%

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think people can change to a certain degree. I believe there is a core personality which doesn't change and gets 'fixed'.

Stuff like lying, cheating, bigotry and racism are formed more from 'nurture' and are surface opinions and attitudes which can be changed if the person is receptive to it.

But others should be willing to actually hear why they may have those opinions rather than just resorting to shouting people down which only entrenches those opinions.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ea monkey OP   Man
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)


"I think people can change, but I think most don't want to put the hard work into it to make it happen.

I believe most people don't want to hold up the mirror to themselves and hold themselves accountable for their own behaviour. Because it's blinking hard and most will only do it when they have no other option.

"

I can see your point.

What about ignorance being challenged and then educated? That would cause change too or is that different?

An ignorant view being changed and educated is still change isn’t it?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ea monkey OP   Man
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)


"Got that tune going through my head now "

I bear no responsibility for any ear worms as a result of this thread

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ea monkey OP   Man
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)


"I think people can change to a certain degree. I believe there is a core personality which doesn't change and gets 'fixed'.

Stuff like lying, cheating, bigotry and racism are formed more from 'nurture' and are surface opinions and attitudes which can be changed if the person is receptive to it.

But others should be willing to actually hear why they may have those opinions rather than just resorting to shouting people down which only entrenches those opinions."

I tend to agree.

I think that it requires being open to other opinions though and investment on both sides, so rarely happens.

I do wonder whether it’s easier to damn people than to help them and how readily we write others off

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So firstly definitions of a person and change are required. Things ‘people’ do or believe (behaviour and belief) are not the so called person. Remove all ideas of the person and find the truth of being then all perceived negative thoughts and actions would be reduced until dropped.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To start the process of change people need to realise their flaws and be self aware

In my experiences people just aren't aware of how their actions have affected others because they see no fault.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

Absolutely. I actually recently did prevent training in work and watched some case studies about individuals who had been successfully deradicalised and it was quite eye opening for me. I also have a friend who grew up in a racist family and admits he adopted the same views when he was young but as he grew up he began to realise firstly that the views were inaccurate and later how abhorrent they were and now he's one of the most accepting people I know. I think it takes big changes for that kibd of thing though. Big interventions for the cases in my training course and for my friend it was moving away from his family that enabled those views to be challenged in his mind.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ea monkey OP   Man
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)


"To start the process of change people need to realise their flaws and be self aware

In my experiences people just aren't aware of how their actions have affected others because they see no fault. "

It depends on the level of change required.

An ignorance/lack of empathy towards others or inability to take responsibility for their own actions or beliefs is possibly separate from the actual beliefs or attitudes themselves

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ea monkey OP   Man
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)


"So firstly definitions of a person and change are required. Things ‘people’ do or believe (behaviour and belief) are not the so called person. Remove all ideas of the person and find the truth of being then all perceived negative thoughts and actions would be reduced until dropped. "

Your first sentence is key.

It is very open ended in itself and the topic can cover a variety of things.

Feel free to focus down as you see fit

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ea monkey OP   Man
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)


"Absolutely. I actually recently did prevent training in work and watched some case studies about individuals who had been successfully deradicalised and it was quite eye opening for me. I also have a friend who grew up in a racist family and admits he adopted the same views when he was young but as he grew up he began to realise firstly that the views were inaccurate and later how abhorrent they were and now he's one of the most accepting people I know. I think it takes big changes for that kibd of thing though. Big interventions for the cases in my training course and for my friend it was moving away from his family that enabled those views to be challenged in his mind. "

So you believe that change is completely possible in individual circumstances?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town


"Following on from the various threads regarding the evils of SM and the various ‘isms’ within society, I’ve noticed that there seems to be a consistent issue running throughout; the concept of change.

Do you believe that a person is capable of change and can grow/alter over time?

If a person is a liar, cheat, racist, bigot, are they that way for life and they’re not going to be redeemed?

What do you think is needed for a person to change?

Thoughts folks? "

Absolutely change is possible. Essential in some cases. And happens without us even noticing and without effort in some cases. What's needed? Some of the below... Education, time, experience, effort, culture, reward, jeopardy, support, help, environment, direction, wiifm, self awareness

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *emorefridaCouple
over a year ago

La la land


"I think people can change, but I think most don't want to put the hard work into it to make it happen.

I believe most people don't want to hold up the mirror to themselves and hold themselves accountable for their own behaviour. Because it's blinking hard and most will only do it when they have no other option.

I can see your point.

What about ignorance being challenged and then educated? That would cause change too or is that different?

An ignorant view being changed and educated is still change isn’t it? "

When people don't like or want to be challenged about their beliefs, isn't that because they don't want to admit to themselves they are closed minded?

For example my brother in law and me disagree on most things, but we can debate it all and see things from each others point of view and to me there is an openness to learn from each other.

My dad on the other hand is racist, homophobic the list goes on unfortunately, anyway he doesn't debate he shouts me down. He is right and I am wrong. To me that suggests he knows he's wrong but doesn't want to admit it and be classed as a racist. So again he doesn't want to hold that perverbial mirror to himself and rather utter the words "I'm not racist but... "

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *rMojoRisinMan
over a year ago

Sheffield

I believe change is possible, with the right stimuli.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *AURA6969TV/TS
over a year ago

RUGBY


"Got that tune going through my head now

I bear no responsibility for any ear worms as a result of this thread "
I blame you 100%

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool


"Absolutely. I actually recently did prevent training in work and watched some case studies about individuals who had been successfully deradicalised and it was quite eye opening for me. I also have a friend who grew up in a racist family and admits he adopted the same views when he was young but as he grew up he began to realise firstly that the views were inaccurate and later how abhorrent they were and now he's one of the most accepting people I know. I think it takes big changes for that kibd of thing though. Big interventions for the cases in my training course and for my friend it was moving away from his family that enabled those views to be challenged in his mind.

So you believe that change is completely possible in individual circumstances? "

Definitely in the right circumstances.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ancer36Woman
over a year ago

Stirling

It’s all to easy to say you will change but never commit to it.

I think in some relationships it can be difficult for people to recognise the need for change which can result in other person becoming desperate to mold you into something your not, an exhaustive and damaging exercise.

Only in true self reflection and with a willingness to work hard can someone attempt to make a change, ultimately you need to want it for yourself and recognise you don’t need to fit someone else’s ideal xx

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ea monkey OP   Man
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)


"I think people can change, but I think most don't want to put the hard work into it to make it happen.

I believe most people don't want to hold up the mirror to themselves and hold themselves accountable for their own behaviour. Because it's blinking hard and most will only do it when they have no other option.

I can see your point.

What about ignorance being challenged and then educated? That would cause change too or is that different?

An ignorant view being changed and educated is still change isn’t it?

When people don't like or want to be challenged about their beliefs, isn't that because they don't want to admit to themselves they are closed minded?

For example my brother in law and me disagree on most things, but we can debate it all and see things from each others point of view and to me there is an openness to learn from each other.

My dad on the other hand is racist, homophobic the list goes on unfortunately, anyway he doesn't debate he shouts me down. He is right and I am wrong. To me that suggests he knows he's wrong but doesn't want to admit it and be classed as a racist. So again he doesn't want to hold that perverbial mirror to himself and rather utter the words "I'm not racist but... "

"

I know exactly what you’re saying.

No one wants to believe that they’re the ‘bad person’ and we all tell ourselves little lies to make ourselves feel better, things like “I’m not racist, but…” or “I’m not anti-gay, but…” are part of those lies but are part of the problem.

I do agree that closed minds are a big barrier to change and the desire to be open is a huge key to that change.

I also think that discussion and debate is a huge part of that too, if these things aren’t talked about, then nothing changes.

I’m rambling now!

In short, I agree

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *tew008Man
over a year ago

edinburgh

Without change there’s no societal norm and there’s no point in prisons, rehab or an evolutionary zeitgeist. Folk dismissing changes in people seem quite simplistic.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *annaBeStrongMan
over a year ago

wokingham

It depends on what’s up for changing, what resources are available being about the new perspective and the persons willingness to accept it.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Following on from the various threads regarding the evils of SM and the various ‘isms’ within society, I’ve noticed that there seems to be a consistent issue running throughout; the concept of change.

Do you believe that a person is capable of change and can grow/alter over time?

If a person is a liar, cheat, racist, bigot, are they that way for life and they’re not going to be redeemed?

What do you think is needed for a person to change?

Thoughts folks? "

Based on a very recent event in my life, that person needs a very real realisation that you will reap what you sow and a taste of how it feels.

I did that exact thing to someone in my life and after the shock that they weren't getting away with it anymore they changed their behaviour.

I also think that in many cases with age comes wisdom. Some things have to be experienced before you understand them or can appreciate how someone else might feel in the same situation.

MC

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *rincess peachWoman
over a year ago

shits creek

Experience.

Normally something that will leave you on your knees, begging for death or strength.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *etcplCouple
over a year ago

Gapping Fanny

I’m going to bust out the crime equation again when describing peoples behaviour.

Mb + Pb (Ocm + Ocp) x (Pa x Pc)

Mb + Pb – what do I stand to gain from committing the crime… monetary or psychological benefits?

Ocm + Ocp – what do I stand to lose if I get caught? My freedom, and how much time do I have to invest?

Pa Pc – what are the chances that I will get caught and convicted?

People will change if they believe the benefits of change outweigh what they stand to loose (money, status, job, freedom etc.). However, it can be easy to put up a facade (or apologetic tweet) that suggests you have changed when in reality you haven’t therefore it is always important to follow up and pay attention to people’s behaviour and see if they have changed.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ea monkey OP   Man
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)


"I’m going to bust out the crime equation again when describing peoples behaviour.

Mb + Pb (Ocm + Ocp) x (Pa x Pc)

Mb + Pb – what do I stand to gain from committing the crime… monetary or psychological benefits?

Ocm + Ocp – what do I stand to lose if I get caught? My freedom, and how much time do I have to invest?

Pa Pc – what are the chances that I will get caught and convicted?

People will change if they believe the benefits of change outweigh what they stand to loose (money, status, job, freedom etc.). However, it can be easy to put up a facade (or apologetic tweet) that suggests you have changed when in reality you haven’t therefore it is always important to follow up and pay attention to people’s behaviour and see if they have changed."

That’s interesting, I’ve never seen that before.

Do you think that’s only limited to crime though? Do you think that there are other motivations for change beyond the requirements and possible recriminations of justice?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Without change there’s no societal norm and there’s no point in prisons, rehab or an evolutionary zeitgeist. Folk dismissing changes in people seem quite simplistic."

Just sceptical;-)

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think the bigger issue is that when /if they change, they are not judged based on their history... Or the judgers perceived memory /impression of that person.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
Post new Message to Thread
back to top