FabSwingers.com forum: OCD in dogs

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

This is actually a genuine plea for help from anyone who may have encountered the same

About four months ago i noticed my dog was chewing at himself a lot and was starting to get patches of hair loss, so took him to the vets and we went thro all the usual suspects such as mange, flea allergy etc but he didnt respond to any of the treatment so they took some hair sample, blood and did a skin scrape to send off to see if anything else was hiding in there, results came back and nothing, everything was clear, wasnt showing any allergys or mites or anything everything was clear and 100% normal

yet he's still chewing himself, to the point he draws blood and hes getting balder and balder

Anyway not wanting to just give up because all his samples was clear they did some more tests and its actually come out that hes OCD and the reason hes chewing himself to bits is not because theres anything wrong with him physically but more a mental compulsion to do it and ive been told its almost certainly a sign of inbreeding and basically there nothing they can do to cure it

Altho they have given me a option to help him and thats putting him on tranquilizers

which to be honest isnt really a road i want to go down unless its 100% necessary

So im now in two minds, do i go get a second opinion for the treatment of this and see if any other vets can offer me a better option or just go with this, i really dont like the idea of him being drugged up and as i have no experience of this really have no idea how it will effect him over all

So my question is has anyone else encountered this in their dog and how did it effect them, is he going to lead a normal life on these drugs or is he just going to be lethargic and not want to do anything?

Im not one of these crazy people who treat their pets like a child but i do love him and want the best for him but while still maintaining a good quality of life

I have asked the vet the side effects of these drugs but she just said there are a few and they wont know if he get any or all till hes on them, which dont make me feel any better

So was just interested to know if anyone has been thro this if they encountered any side effects and if their dogs had a good quality of life while on them

Thanks

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Have you tried the cone shaped bucket on the head to stop him from getting his teeth to himself anywhere?

I know from our own dogs that once they have a sore bit they just can't leave it alone and the only cure was to physically stop them from chewing the area until it was completely healed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 13/08/12 14:29:33]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Has anything changed dramatically recently for you and pooch? Dogs can and do pick up on their owners' stress levels.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

apologies, i deleted my initial thoughts as a re-read of your post answered some of the points i mentioned.

ask the vet if they think steroids would do him any good

again, there are side effects and they may not be adviseable in a younger dog

there are also some calming products available now in tablet and liquid form that have had some positive reviews

good luck with him whatever happens

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

I have friends who had a dog treated with SSRI medication, which is approved for OCD type behaviour. This is different to a tranquilliser type med, as it's not sedating. Sometimes they will make tiredness forms as a side effect, but it's not the intended effect of the med. Their dog responded very well. As with us humans, sometimes treatments need to be experimented with.

The ideal being the lowest dose level, of a treatment that works, with no side effects. Of course, affordability is important too, unless you have pet insurance coverage. Such a treatment includes Fluoxetine, which had been branded as Prozac. Some drugs are used in an off-licence way, where their effects are appreciated by a vet, even if they don't have full approval for that use. Most of the SSRI type meds have similar ways of working on the body/mind of animals, incl humans.

Good luck!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I had a dog who did something similar. I bandaged his foot and covered the bandage in the disgusting stuff you paint on kids finger nails to stop them chewing. It worked quite well

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"apologies, i deleted my initial thoughts as a re-read of your post answered some of the points i mentioned.

ask the vet if they think steroids would do him any good

again, there are side effects and they may not be adviseable in a younger dog

there are also some calming products available now in tablet and liquid form that have had some positive reviews

good luck with him whatever happens

I have bought a herbal medicine called stay calm that's supposed to calm down dogs hea been on it just over a week now and I've seen no change at all

As for the collar it has been spoken about but as its a life long illness it would mean him wearing it indeffinatly so again it's a last resort option

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By *adja_lazloCouple
over a year ago

Solihull

as in most animals slef chewing/harming can be a sign of stress or pure boredom

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

One of the things with behavioural modification, is that often a multi-faced approach works most effectively in the long term.

Breaking a habit is a key first step, and sometimes this may be enough, so that an animal becomes refocused - as long as it's not to another more damaging habit, of course.

What's then need is sustaining of a new habit free lifestyle. Where others mention the variety, interest and stimulation, these could be useful features.

So, I'd consider medication, even if it's not a tranquilliser, as well as diet and lifestyle changes. If you could add some behavioural training from a professional, or yourself, even better. The SSRI meds can take a few days to start to take effect.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i assume the vet will have asked you these questions, but have you considered where his behavourial issues stem from ?

is he a rescue dog or have you had him from a pup ?

some rescue dogs will come with major behavourial issues (i know that first hand)

is he left on his own for long periods ?

(boredom can be a major factor)

do you play with him as well as walk him ? (dogs need regular interaction / stimulation as well as walks and feeding)

is he a breed that has an owners club ?

(maybe you could ask them if other owners have experienced similar issues)

have you tried any of the online pet owners forums ?

sorry if any of that sounds patronising which is not the intent NN x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

my cat use to bite himself on the backside and down one leg.

it took many trips to the vet,injections and forcing tablets down the poor things throat.

in the end it was a biscuit he was eating which was making him itch so he pulled his fur out.

cost a lot at the vet but he is much happier and so am i.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I would say collar him now for a week to let the current wounds heal, then slowly reduce the collar times, keep it on at night and when he is left alone, and always put it back on as soon as he starts to chew himself again. You may find that you can train him not to do it - most dogs don't like the collar, so if you can associate not wearing it with not chewing you may stand a chance.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Can I ask if the dog was previously a rescue dog and in kennels? As this may be the problem. I find this a lot with the dogs I foster

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By *emmefataleWoman
over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

Can be a sign of boredom? Some dogs need two to four walks a day?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

i have quite a busy house and theres as a rule always someone in, i have 3 daughters and between us he gets two walks a day, i take him in the morning and one of the girls take him in the evening

Thing is i cant see it being a bordom thing as he does it even if hes out, you can be walking him and he will just stop while out and start chewing, if your playing with him he does it, it just seems to be a need for him rather than something to pass the time

Also it does not need to be himself he chews so long as he has that desire to knorr fixed hes happy doing it to anyone or anything, he just mostly does it to himself as its easier, i've bought him toys and stuff to try and distract him from his own body which does work for a while but if he walks into another room without the toy hes back to himself again

We have been thro all the obvious things, its not a biting its just like a very fast nipping/knorring its almost like a twitch, and he goes into a kind of trance, i cant really explain it you'd have to see him to know what i mean

Which is why the vet wants to put him on tranquilizers as she has told me its the only hope i have of stopping him, i have actually today booked him into another vets for a second opinion as i need to know for certain this is the only way to go before i even think about doing it

I know i sound like a soft twat lol but i really am getting to my end with it now as its horrible to see him in a mess but i really dont like the idea of druggiung him which is why i was interested in anyone experience of this and how theit dog reacted to the medication

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By *emmefataleWoman
over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

After reading your last post NN, i would say its something to do with him being a rescue dog.....its nice to see someone caring about their pet, so no need to apologise

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

I don't know anything about dogs, but you can get Rescue Remedy for stressed animals.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Our dogs licks her feet all the time .ive found that taking her for a walk helps as I run her real hard so she's wore out a bit.

She doesn't seem to lick her feet so much now

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By *reelove1969Couple
over a year ago

bristol

had a similar thing with a dog we had from a rescue pound who was fine but then suddenly for no reason started biting her front paws and tail to the point where there were bald patches on her paws and no fur at all on the tip of her tail just bone which looked awful. She wud openly bite herself infront of us and we wud tell her off and stop her doing it. Took her to the vet who diagnosed OCD and gave us a months supply of some kind off downers to calm her. Then came the strangest bit of advise eva.. He told us to stop telling her off wen she done it and to stop also moving her head away from her legs tail etc when she was biting herself and just ignore her and allow her to continue. This distressed me as it was upsetting to watch her delibrately hurt herself. But hey presto .. we followed her advise and within a few weeks the biting had stopped and her fur was growing back again .. I think from memory we only kept her on the downers for about 3 month to ensure the habit was broken and then stopped the tablets and she neva went back to doing it again.. One interesting thing the vet said to us to reassure us that it was OCD as I was slightly sceptical to say the least was to watch her wen she does it and she will always go through the same ritual whilst doing it ie turning round in a clockwise circle prior to lying down and always bend over her right shoulder to bite her tail etc and he was again absolutely spot on .. hope u find a remedy soon as i totally feel ur pain !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My dog chewed herself bald over her back and base of her tail it was awful to see.. Turned out she had blocked anal glands, she was soon sorted and stopped biting herself. Just a thought before going down the whole psych route with the dog. I'd be inclined to get another vet to give you a second opinion. Xxx hugs for your pooch.

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By *dinMan
over a year ago

Nr Biggleswade

Give your dog a sausage!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

mmmm good old anal glands,

to check these before going to vet , glove up then place fingers at 8 oclock and 4 oclock on outside of anus , apply alittle pressure if blocked a resistance would be flet and you can try clearing by adding more pressure ,

ok next is food allergy,

often results on biting back at base of tail and licking between toes

try a boiled rice and chicken diet , boilrice leave in the water till cold , boil chicken in it too if prefered then give to dog , no treats biscuits or anything else , this should give a bland allergy free stomach , which should show good results if food based problems , hope this is of help xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Have you tried the cone shaped bucket on the head to stop him from getting his teeth to himself anywhere?

I know from our own dogs that once they have a sore bit they just can't leave it alone and the only cure was to physically stop them from chewing the area until it was completely healed."
cone of shame

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Have you tried the cone shaped bucket on the head to stop him from getting his teeth to himself anywhere?

cone of shame maybe, cone of not removing the dressing you have just paid the vet to put on definitely

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By *rokengirlWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere

My dOg does similar after all the tests we realised he was allergic to the shampoo used on him... Switched shampoo to a chemical free option etc and worked a treat

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By *empting Devil.Woman
over a year ago

Sheffield

You can also try the Dog Appeasing Pheromones. They come in a diffuser that you plug in like an airfreshener. You can't smell them but they can help.

They either work fairly quickly or don't work at all.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm sorry I don't have any advice to offer you as an animal lover with 2 dogs of my own I'm fortunate that I haven't encountered anything like this and I so hope things work out and something can be done t help your dog and you good luck and please let us know how things work out xxx

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By *els_BellsWoman
over a year ago

with the moon n stars somewhere in gtr manc

"cone of shame"

Love that film!

My princess has suffered from skin problems ever since I had my little one. The vet said it was robably the carpets we had laid, but we always had carpets before.

She has bitten and scratched herself to bleeding. I have had all kinds of tests done and it seems to be psychological.

If nothing has changed around the house or in its food, it could either be age or even the change in weather. Especially if it rolls about in grass, as nature has gone a bit wonky with the early summer and all the rain.

Its lovely to see a post from someone who loves their dog like I love mine, so seek any advice from vets and maybe online. But dont take the online vets too seriously as they seem to be more interested in severe/extreme cases.

Try a skin friendly shampoo from the vet also, not cheap but worth a go

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

First off, are you talking about a lick granuloma? And what breed is he? The most usual breeds are labs, collies and their crosses. Age? Older and some younger dogs ca have arthritis/neuralgia that gives a focus for the biting. The tests- were they allergy tests? Enviroment? Food? And am I reading it right that you'd rather put him to sleep than try the tablets? There are doggy ones antianxiolytic drugs available and they should be your vet's first choice before the likes of Prozac (which isn't that effective in dogs) unless there is a reason of their judging. Exclusion diets are not chicken and rice, they are usually sweet potato and salmon/white fish or similar. WeLl worth doing if you haven't already. Anal gland problems can start this off but this sounds as though it has gone way beyond the initial cause. Tbh you are wasting your money on herbal things and R Remedy etc as the problem is way too ingrained for them to work. Homeopathy at an emotional strength MAY help BUT there is the itch/bite thing going on as well as the reward from endorphin release. And two walks a day are nowhere near enough for a dog. Good luck- complicated subject

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I reading it right that you'd rather put him to sleep than try the tablets? "

The thought of killing him even crossed my mind

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And as for itchy dogs- nothing in the house or enviroment or food NEEDS to change for an animal- human, dog, cat- to become allergic to it. Food trials ar easiest to do first- on the right protein/carbohydrate- with water but blood/skin test are available too- at a cost.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 14/08/12 18:05:49]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I reading it right that you'd rather put him to sleep than try the tablets?

The thought of killing him even crossed my mind

"
. Awww don't do that. Try the tablets xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well, I'm taking some time to phrase this- I'm sorry the OP didn't get back to the thread to add more comments or pickup on some of the advice offered. It's always nice to say thanks for any help or experience offered by others.

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By *ngieandMrManCouple
over a year ago

hereford

"had a similar thing with a dog we had from a rescue pound who was fine but then suddenly for no reason started biting her front paws and tail to the point where there were bald patches on her paws and no fur at all on the tip of her tail just bone which looked awful. She wud openly bite herself infront of us and we wud tell her off and stop her doing it. Took her to the vet who diagnosed OCD and gave us a months supply of some kind off downers to calm her. Then came the strangest bit of advise eva.. He told us to stop telling her off wen she done it and to stop also moving her head away from her legs tail etc when she was biting herself and just ignore her and allow her to continue. This distressed me as it was upsetting to watch her delibrately hurt herself. But hey presto .. we followed her advise and within a few weeks the biting had stopped and her fur was growing back again .. I think from memory we only kept her on the downers for about 3 month to ensure the habit was broken and then stopped the tablets and she neva went back to doing it again.. One interesting thing the vet said to us to reassure us that it was OCD as I was slightly sceptical to say the least was to watch her wen she does it and she will always go through the same ritual whilst doing it ie turning round in a clockwise circle prior to lying down and always bend over her right shoulder to bite her tail etc and he was again absolutely spot on .. hope u find a remedy soon as i totally feel ur pain ! "

The logic or psychology that it seems your vet didn't explain is that pretty much all non-required behaviours in dogs are created by humans...

Most dogs crave attention, and while they might prefer you scratch their ears for them, the fact is ANY sort of attention will do. So when your dog chewed at itself and you spoke to it, shouted at it, physically stopped it doing what it was doing... it really doesn't matter what you do all and any of it in the dogs mind is 'attention'.

And so your, all with the best intentions, your intervention reinforces the behaviour, 'rewards' the dog for doing what its doing even though its self destructive.

A very strict rule is required in dog training/management and its 'TOTALLY ignore non-required behaviour, always and ONLY reward required behaviour.

A big problem with dog issues is that we are human and have emotions, example...

Dog is chewing its paw.

Human, 'oh don't do that Fido' you have just unwittingly 'rewarded' the dog for chewing its paw.

Dog logic, if I chew my paw the human speaks to me, I like that, I'll do it again.

Dog continues chewing its paw.

Human, Human gets up and physically stops dog chewing its paw.

Dog logic, if I chew my paw the human touches me, this is GREAT, I'll do some more of that.

Now I am NOT suggesting that you or the OP has CAUSED the problem, the point I'm trying to make is that you have to be VERY careful to avoid reinforcing the behaviour, something that us humans tend to do without even realising we are doing it.

The logic could be likened to 'The trouble with that kid is he/she is being naughty to get attention'. The big difference is the dog has no concept or understanding of what we call right and wrong.

To the OP... you might consider seeking out a 'dog behaviouist' aka Dog Whisperer, a Dog psychologist type. Even though the issue might be medical, psychology might be the solution.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not much more to add although it might be an idea to get him another dog as a companion. What could work is try speaking to adog walker that takes dogs for agood run etc. You could ask them to take him for a few days and note any changes. Cheaper than buying another greyhound.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

food exclusion diets do not have to be a specific thing , my suggestion of boiled rice and chicken comes from actual experiance in this and the recommendation of a specialist vet

i feel any diet that is additive free /wheat/gluten/glyadin etc will work so i agree a sweet potato and salmon will work just more costly than chicken and rice , xx

hope the dog gets better

ohh the term for us treating the dog like humans is

anthropomorphism google it xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"food exclusion diets do not have to be a specific thing , my suggestion of boiled rice and chicken comes from actual experiance in this and the recommendation of a specialist vet

i feel any diet that is additive free /wheat/gluten/glyadin etc will work so i agree a sweet potato and salmon will work just more costly than chicken and rice"
. Sorry, but this is wrong and bad advice. Exclusion diets HAVE to be novel protein and carbohydrate and most dogs have eaten chicken. Other protein allergies will be triggered by chicken ie reaction to one white meat will give reaction to them all. Yes, some dogs eat fish and there are commercial hypoallrgenic diets available but not so many dog foods have fish in them so that's why it's used. I actually think this might be a pain issue, especially being a greyhound and wonder if pain relief eg gabapentin has been tried?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Well, I'm taking some time to phrase this- I'm sorry the OP didn't get back to the thread to add more comments or pickup on some of the advice offered. It's always nice to say thanks for any help or experience offered by others."

I didnt even realise this thread was still going

But with the greatest of due respect i didnt come on here to ask for people advice on what was wrong with him and how to cure him, i've been paying a qualified vet for that

All i really wanted to know was if anyone had had a dog with the same and what effect the tranquilizers had had on them as i didnt want them to give him a poor quality of life, and no that does NOT mean id rather have him put to sleep i would just sooner find alternative option but if it is my last resort i just wanted to know how others peoples dogs had reacted to this medication thats all

Of coursed im grateful of any help offered but again with the greatest of respect im hardly going to pay a vet for they qulatifed help and opinions then take the advice off someone i dont even know

He has been back to a different vet for a second opinion and they have offered me alternative medication that we are trying at the moment but hes only been on them a few days so to early to say if they are helping yet

The problem is not any form of allergy, his diet etc, we have been going to the vets regular for over 4 months now and he has had every test under the sun, you name it hes had it, his problem is mental based, i have been told, by both the vets i have seen its almost certainly due to inbreeding which is not something that can be cured by extra walks or changing his diet, at the end hes paying the price for humans greed to make more money.....but one way of another we'll got to the bottom of it

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