FabSwingers.com forum: Sophisticated romance fraud

By *ubal1 OP Man
over a year ago

Newry Down

I spent most of the afternoon attempting to convince a good friend that for the past two years he has been the victim of a sophisticated romance fraud, that has almost left him destitute.

What could I do to finally convince him that this young woman with a family (who are originally from eastern Europe) are simply inventing ruse after ruse to extract cash from him.

He has already lost tens of thousands of pounds, and now she is trying to convince home to sell his last asset, his home.

There is talk of marriage, but she is decades younger than him.

There are glaring holes in her story, inconsistencies, and blatant lies.

Crucially, he tells me that he has never had sexual relations with her, but I am unconvinced.

What could I do to bring him to his senses; I met him today for the first time in months and he looked dreadful.

He is a Christian with a benevolent disposition to society's lowest echelons.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *uenevereWoman
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

Sadly, there's not much you can do when people are convinced.

Feeling wanted/loved can be a powerful way to persuade people to part with their money.

There's nothing sophisticated about the method, naivety is quite easily spotted and advantage taken.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *etcplCouple
over a year ago

Gapping Fanny

Have you reported this to Action Fraud?

There is little they may be able to do, but at the very least they can put him in touch with victim support or other supportive services.

Romance fraud is becoming massive, more so than the 619 frauds of a decade ago.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *esparate danMan
over a year ago

glasgow

He sounds like a Christian with a erection

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

You can't do anything I'm afraid. A friend of my mum's has been slowly fleeced of everything over a period box 20 years by a much younger man with a wife and family. She's paid medical expenses, bought him a tractor, paid for repairs to his house, bought him a car, paid for him to visit her here the list goes on. She met him when she was on holiday in Cyprus shortly after her husband died. She's sold the house she and her husband bought together, spent all her savings and sold her car. All she will say to anybody who tries to persuade her to cut contact is "you don't know what it's like to be lonely".

Sadly now her money's run out he's not in contact so much and she's beginning to see the light.

All I can say is he's an adult, you've offered advice, he's chosen not to take it all you can do is support him.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

*a period of

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

In what way did he look dreadful, is he ill do you think?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ubal1 OP Man
over a year ago

Newry Down

He has lost 28-30 pounds in weight, looks completely washed out, has developed bags under his eyes, and apologised that he couldn't afford to buy a coffee.

I bought him a coffee and a large sausage roll; he is not eating properly.

Amazingly, over the course of the afternoon he visibly changed in appearance; back to his old self.

He cannot see the wood for the trees.

I was extremely blunt with him, about what he has to do; but I know nothing will change for the better.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"He has lost 28-30 pounds in weight, looks completely washed out, has developed bags under his eyes, and apologised that he couldn't afford to buy a coffee.

I bought him a coffee and a large sausage roll; he is not eating properly.

Amazingly, over the course of the afternoon he visibly changed in appearance; back to his old self.

He cannot see the wood for the trees.

I was extremely blunt with him, about what he has to do; but I know nothing will change for the better.

It's hard to witness isn't it. Have you met the lady?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *hrobinsonMan
over a year ago

Bridgnorth

There was a programme about this on Radio 4 this afternoon at 4pm with Michael Rosen, it is such a cold anything calculating thing to do

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *imi_RougeWoman
over a year ago

Portsmouth

This happened to my cousin, she had him for all his inheritance including his parents house. Really sad. Tried to warn him

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ubal1 OP Man
over a year ago

Newry Down

No; and I probably never will.

I have instructed him/counselled him that he needs to phone a facility she will be at tonight to check that she is actually there. But I know it won't happen.

Psychologically, although elderly now he was an only child; he lacks 'street wisdom' and is naive, gullible, and easily hoodwinked.

There are hundreds of holes in her stories; I suspect he no longer has enough food at home.

His other friends, some of whom I know, think this lady is a charlatan, a thief and a fraudster.

He never married, lives alone, and accepts her stories at face value.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ubal1 OP Man
over a year ago

Newry Down

"There was a programme about this on Radio 4 this afternoon at 4pm with Michael Rosen, it is such a cold anything calculating thing to do

"
I knew it was being broadcast, but was with him at the time.

When is it repeated-late Sunday night?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ubal1 OP Man
over a year ago

Newry Down

"Have you reported this to Action Fraud?

There is little they may be able to do, but at the very least they can put him in touch with victim support or other supportive services.

Romance fraud is becoming massive, more so than the 619 frauds of a decade ago."

Action Fraud has been proven to be a completely useless organisation.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ubal1 OP Man
over a year ago

Newry Down

"This happened to my cousin, she had him for all his inheritance including his parents house. Really sad. Tried to warn him

From my limited research, it is exceptionally common.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *nabelle21Woman
over a year ago

B38

This is just dreadful!

I saw a programme recently about the same thing.

It was heartbreaking for those involved. They want nothing more than to be loved and invest fully, mentally and financially into pure deceitful lies.

Had he tried reverse image searches? Apparently those people do a mirror image now so as to get around this.

I don't know what you can do! But, I really hope that you figure something else.

Once they have invested so heavily in someone they sometimes don't want to kmow the truth.

They feel stupid and they really shouldn't!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ubal1 OP Man
over a year ago

Newry Down

"This is just dreadful!

I saw a programme recently about the same thing.

It was heartbreaking for those involved. They want nothing more than to be loved and invest fully, mentally and financially into pure deceitful lies.

Had he tried reverse image searches? Apparently those people do a mirror image now so as to get around this.

I don't know what you can do! But, I really hope that you figure something else.

Once they have invested so heavily in someone they sometimes don't want to kmow the truth.

They feel stupid and they really shouldn't!"

I strongly suspect this will lead to his death in due course.

I was extraordinarily blunt with him this afternoon, but he is like a rabbit frozen in the headlights.

I do not want to reveal exact details that might facilitate jigsaw identification of any party, but the lies, inconsistencies, holes in her stories, etc., is truly shocking.

Crucially, none of this is happening in my home town, nor within 50 miles of it.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *-man24Man
over a year ago

northwest

"I spent most of the afternoon attempting to convince a good friend that for the past two years he has been the victim of a sophisticated romance fraud, that has almost left him destitute.

What could I do to finally convince him that this young woman with a family (who are originally from eastern Europe) are simply inventing ruse after ruse to extract cash from him.

He has already lost tens of thousands of pounds, and now she is trying to convince home to sell his last asset, his home.

There is talk of marriage, but she is decades younger than him.

There are glaring holes in her story, inconsistencies, and blatant lies.

Crucially, he tells me that he has never had sexual relations with her, but I am unconvinced.

What could I do to bring him to his senses; I met him today for the first time in months and he looked dreadful.

He is a Christian with a benevolent disposition to society's lowest echelons.

Will prey from him and hope god gets a grip for him

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There was a programme about this on Radio 4 this afternoon at 4pm with Michael Rosen, it is such a cold anything calculating thing to do

I knew it was being broadcast, but was with him at the time.

When is it repeated-late Sunday night?"

You may be able to listen to it online on BBC iplayer.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ubal1 OP Man
over a year ago

Newry Down

"There was a programme about this on Radio 4 this afternoon at 4pm with Michael Rosen, it is such a cold anything calculating thing to do

I knew it was being broadcast, but was with him at the time.

When is it repeated-late Sunday night?

You may be able to listen to it online on BBC iplayer."

Michael Rosen is very good; one of the best broadcasters on Radio 4.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *a LunaWoman
over a year ago

South

AgeUK have some information on their website and both AgeUK and Age Concern are trying to draw attention to these scams.

They recommend calling 101 and reporting it and also contacting Victim Support groups either nationally or locally.

More importantly, if the victim is an older/vulnerable person, try to contact the victim’s local council’s adult social services department and explain your concerns. They will make safeguarding enquiries and work with the adult to consider the action that needs to be taken. If they get involved they will have more clout in getting local Police safeguarding team involved if it is flagged up as a safeguarding issue.

Does the victim have close family that can step in? Has he got mental capacity? There are charities out there who can step in and look after financial matters for vulnerable adults and deal with his post so bills get paid, begging scam letters are removed etc.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ubal1 OP Man
over a year ago

Newry Down

"AgeUK have some information on their website and both AgeUK and Age Concern are trying to draw attention to these scams.

They recommend calling 101 and reporting it and also contacting Victim Support groups either nationally or locally.

This victim had been withdrawing so much money from his bank account, that his bank contacted the local police who interviewed him about romance fraud. The lady was interviewed but the victim declined the opportunity to have the police charge her with grooming/fraud/ exploitation of a vulnerable elderly person.

You can take a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"AgeUK have some information on their website and both AgeUK and Age Concern are trying to draw attention to these scams.

They recommend calling 101 and reporting it and also contacting Victim Support groups either nationally or locally.

You can take a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink!"

Does he have cognitive impairment?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ubal1 OP Man
over a year ago

Newry Down

I have long suspected that he may be experiencing the early stage of dementia (possibly Alzheimer's) because he frequently repeats the same anecdotes about his life, but he is profoundly lonely and may need the interaction, so is repetitive.

The actual stress of the loss of his cash reserves, and other associated events, had caused a visible physical deterioration, but the few hours I spent with him today visibly revived him physiologically and cognitively.

I have tried to rally his close friends around him in a supportive, but questioning role in many ways, but there is only so much one can do to ameliorate this situation.

The victim knows that I am proactive, forthright, experienced, outspoken, etc., and is visibly and vocally fearful that I might intervene, as I have in another problematic situation that required direct, urgent, decisive action and considerable follow through.

You can take a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"I have long suspected that he may be experiencing the early stage of dementia (possibly Alzheimer's) because he frequently repeats the same anecdotes about his life, but he is profoundly lonely and may need the interaction, so is repetitive.

I have tried to rally his close friends around him in a supportive, but questioning role in many ways, but there is only so much one can do to ameliorate this situation.

You can take a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink!"

True. It's an awful situation to be in.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ubal1 OP Man
over a year ago

Newry Down

What I have revealed her barely scratches the surface of what has been happening; I have been working on this issue,on and off, for 18 months and have invested considerable time and money, but to no avail.

It was actually one of the victim's closer friends who originally brought it to my attention (for action to be instigated) and I followed through by 'rallying the troops' but it hasn't worked.

The fraudster had told him that she will be in a specific location tonight and I suggested he should phone and ask to speak to her; I strongly suspected that she would be 'elsewhere'; on other 'business'!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Best of luck OP. Your friend is very lucky to have you. I hope your effort will pay dividends soon.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ubal1 OP Man
over a year ago

Newry Down

"Best of luck OP. Your friend is very lucky to have you. I hope your effort will pay dividends soon."

They won't, because he is too far gone.

I have watched several TV programmes about romance fraud, and read a lot too, but to see it happening in real life is bewildering.

What I have not revealed, to date, is that this fraudster has other current victims, who are also elderly, and the police ate starting to take an interest in her.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *esparate danMan
over a year ago

glasgow

This indeed a gamechanger

How do you know about her other victims

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *allySlinkyWoman
over a year ago

Leeds

"He has lost 28-30 pounds in weight, looks completely washed out, has developed bags under his eyes, and apologised that he couldn't afford to buy a coffee.

I bought him a coffee and a large sausage roll; he is not eating properly.

Amazingly, over the course of the afternoon he visibly changed in appearance; back to his old self.

Wow. Great what effect a large sausage roll can have.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

Has he actually met this woman, have you? I'm getting a bit confused now about this and police involvement, they've interviewed her but are only now taking an interest.

It's all very distressing she must be extremely brazen to continue even after

police involvement.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ubal1 OP Man
over a year ago

Newry Down

"This indeed a gamechanger

How do you know about her other victims"

He reluctantly told me; he is afraid that I am going to take action.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"This indeed a gamechanger

How do you know about her other victims

He reluctantly told me; he is afraid that I am going to take action.

How does he know about her other victims?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *allySlinkyWoman
over a year ago

Leeds

"Has he actually met this woman ?"

The man must have met the woman as OP thinks they have a sexual relationship

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ubal1 OP Man
over a year ago

Newry Down

"Has he actually met this woman, have you? I'm getting a bit confused now about this and police involvement, they've interviewed her but are only now taking an interest.

It's all very distressing she must be extremely brazen to continue even after

police involvement."

I don't know her full name; I have never met her, nor seen a photo of her, and documentary evidence is sparce.

He meets this lady every day.

She has apparently been targetting other elderly folk by approaching them on the street, cons her way into their homes and steals from them.

The police have allegedly interviewed her, but that aspect is riddled with inconsistencies; she has a solicitor whose identity she won't reveal, and was questioned at a location she won't reveal.

One of the victim's friends, whom I had briefed, forcefully confronted this lady in the victim's home.

This has been happening in the overall context of lockdowns, and is fragmentary.There is no coordinated effort.

Frankly, I suspect this lady, who has five feral children in tow, is working as a prostitute, and in cahoots with others.

The victim apparently met this lady when she approached him in the street, and gave him a sob story about having cancer, etc, etc.

These types of cons follow a stereotypical trajectory, with minor variations; medical emergencies, family tragedies, couuntry of residence issues, etc.

A completely different scenario more than 20 years ago involved a guy I knew who brought his Russian wife back to the UK; she tried to take over his property by going to the police and alleging that he was abusing her.

She failed and the 'relationship' ended. That particular victim was exploited by at least three different women, who had no connection to each other.I personally met two of them.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

Can you and the victims other friends set up a rota so that somebody is with him every time she visits?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He has lost 28-30 pounds in weight, looks completely washed out, has developed bags under his eyes, and apologised that he couldn't afford to buy a coffee.

I bought him a coffee and a large sausage roll; he is not eating properly.

Amazingly, over the course of the afternoon he visibly changed in appearance; back to his old self.

Wow. Great what effect a large sausage roll can have."

Probably the stress release of being able to talk to someone about it all and feeling safe in his company for the short time.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have tried to rally his close friends around him in a supportive, but questioning role in many ways, but there is only so much one can do to ameliorate this situation.

You can take a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink!"

Has he been in a similar situation before?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Very sad how people are taken in.

Very sad indeed

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *eoeclipseWoman
over a year ago

glasgow

I'm quite surprised at police, i was under the opinion that they can charge without victims consent in domestic abuse cases (which this absolutely is).

Especially with the bank also concerned, what i'm wondering is how she's withdrawing it, unless she's managed to wangle a card & pin out of him too.

I'd maybe give cops a call & explain the whole situation to them including mental manipulation.

I don't understand the mindset of scammers at all (greed i presume). Disgusting.

This is also another reason i don't like the 'sugar' scene, just feels like your manipulating lonely folks for monetary items, regardless if that is their kink, i think deep down those paying feel they need to pay to feel loved/connected...that is not what love is at all.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *allySlinkyWoman
over a year ago

Leeds

You said the man is a Christian. Could you approach his local church for support ? They can offer friendly visits and food parcels.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ubal1 OP Man
over a year ago

Newry Down

"Can you and the victims other friends set up a rota so that somebody is with him every time she visits? "

That's a useful suggestion, but he mostly visits her; I know the name of the town, but he is reluctant to give the specific address, although I approximately know its location.

It is in a rough, rundown area that was at its peak maybe 80-100 years ago.

He has even allegedly paid to have the alleyway behind this house professionally cleaned at a cost of £500.

What I have found about cunning manipulators of this ilk is that they engineer a scenario where it is difficult for outsiders to join the dots, especially during lockdowns.

I prepared an extensive package of briefing papers for the victim and three of his principal friends (one of whom recently died) in order to educate them all, but have not physically met any of them in the past year, with the exception of the victim, yesterday.

Crucially, I do not have any of their phone numbers, nor their e-mail addresses.

In opening this thread, and replying to postings, I have concluded that I may have to approach the police myself, with the ultimate goal of having this con artist deported.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

OP if you suspect a crime is being or has been committed then you should involve the police and let them investigate the matter.

From what you are saying this is long term abuse of a vulnerable person and needs to be brought to a swift end.

There is an awful lot advantage to being a good friend.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ubal1 OP Man
over a year ago

Newry Down

"You said the man is a Christian. Could you approach his local church for support ? They can offer friendly visits and food parcels. "

I do not know the victim particularly well; I do not know his specific church, but I know he is being provided with occasional cooked meals by them.

He is an exceptionally generous person who would literally leave himself destitute in order to help others; his reward coming in the afterlife.

I have no faith whatsoever; the Christian Brothers and Catholic clergy knocked all of that out of me and many others too.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *allySlinkyWoman
over a year ago

Leeds

"OP if you suspect a crime is being or has been committed then you should involve the police and let them investigate the matter.

Why don't you give the police the dossier of evidence you have been working on for 18 months ?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"You said the man is a Christian. Could you approach his local church for support ? They can offer friendly visits and food parcels.

I do not know the victim particularly well; I do not know his specific church, but I know he is being provided with occasional cooked meals by them.

He is an exceptionally generous person who would literally leave himself destitute in order to help others; his reward coming in the afterlife.

I have no faith whatsoever; the Christian Brothers and Catholic clergy knocked all of that out of me and many others too."

Ask him which church he attends.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ubal1 OP Man
over a year ago

Newry Down

"OP if you suspect a crime is being or has been committed then you should involve the police and let them investigate the matter.

Why don't you give the police the dossier of evidence you have been working on for 18 months ?"

Crucially, I do not have one iota of documentary evidence; I only became aware of this issue when I was approached by an acquaintance of the victim and then wrote to the victim and his three main friends.

I met the victim two or there times over the last 18 months and twice corresponded by letter.

Frankly, until yesterday when I bumped into the victim in Belfast I assumed the problem had been resolved, but was stunned at his distressed appearance. He looked wretched.

I then invested a few hours eliciting information from him and offering suggestions.

I think I can see the wood for the trees but he cannot.

This man was previously involved with another lady whom I have met several times; she foisted himself on him and overburdened him with her issues.

He eventually tired of her and by refusing to go on vacation with her, in the Republic of Ireland, she dropped him. In that instance, there was no element of financial exploitation, just whingeing that he tolerated in order to fulfil his Christian duty. That lady is a person of deep faith, but from a dysfunctional background and with many 'trust' issues.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *lirty-CoupleCouple
over a year ago

Bexley