FabSwingers.com mobile

Join us FREE, we're FREE to use

Web's largest swingers site since 2006.

Already registered?
Login here

Back to forum list
Back to The Lounge

Does the 'class system' still exist?

Jump to newest
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

We recently watched a progamme about the class system that was presented by Grayson Perry. I found it very interesting to see how people classified themselves, and also how outsiders saw them?

The political threads on here usually end up with someone waving the Working Class flag and bemoaning the rich living off the fat of the poor. Conservative supporters bemoan the benefits system etc... very general observation by me I admit.

My question is your class something you are born in to, or what you become?

I myself was born in a relatively poor 'working class' family. Mum was a pub cook, dad worked for BT. A generation before followed even more 'working class' jobs of cooks, cleaners, soldier and rigger. This would probably mean I was 'working class' by birth

I myself, received a good education, do a well paid office based job. Our joint household income makes us comfortable. Well have nice (not flashy) cars. Go on foreign (not expensive) holidays. We live in the country in a spacious semi detached. This would probaly mean we are 'middle class'... probably 'lower middle class' for sub classification

I have never identified with any class structure. I feel it is a label that can inhibit your potential.

What do others feel? Does the 'class system' still exist, or is it a state of mind?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ovedupstillCouple
over a year ago

mullinwire

yes it does.

and im proud of being working class, as was my father, and his.

wouldnt want to be anything else..

being born into privelege seems to give people a superiority complex.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

yep , just read the profiles on here "professional couple" , surely a professional is someone who gets paid to do a job .

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *G LanaTV/TS
over a year ago

Gosport

Class divisions still exist and social inequality has been significantly increasing over the last few decades. As a nation we are letting the ruling elite slide US back to levels of inequality not seen since in the the Victorians.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *G LanaTV/TS
over a year ago

Gosport


"yep , just read the profiles on here "professional couple" , surely a professional is someone who gets paid to do a job ."

Strangely at least as far as payment of witnesses in British courts professionals are only doctors, dentists, veterinary surgeons, lawyers and accountants. These people can claim for employing a locum whilst appearing in court whilst other expert witnesses can't.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

OK, another question then. What is the definition of working class and middle class?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"yep , just read the profiles on here "professional couple" , surely a professional is someone who gets paid to do a job .

Strangely at least as far as payment of witnesses in British courts professionals are only doctors, dentists, veterinary surgeons, lawyers and accountants. These people can claim for employing a locum whilst appearing in court whilst other expert witnesses can't."

I thought that too but just googled the definition of professional and it is anyone who's an expert and paid for what they do apparently.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In answer to the OP yes they do exist and probably always will unless we get overrun by the Chinese ... And I really don't have a problem with the Class structure at all.

One Grandad was a Sheffield Miner, the other a GWR engine driver. Mum was a cook Dad was a clerk. I am a truck driver. So I guess I am 'Working Class'. And proud of it.

I never could understand those who envy others wealth or advantages or whatever. Such is life. If you want to improve yourself you can. If you want to go to University you can. If you want to Climb Everest you can. Just work bloody hard and be the best.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Class divisions still exist and social inequality has been significantly increasing over the last few decades. As a nation we are letting the ruling elite slide US back to levels of inequality not seen since in the the Victorians."

A slight exaggeration if you look at the facts.

As for the 'ruling elite' well who votes for them to rule us?

We do...

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *G LanaTV/TS
over a year ago

Gosport

Crown prosecution service guidance on witness expenses and allowances is quiet clear on the distinction between expert and professional categories of witnesses.

Elsewhere definitions will vary but I put up with weeks of complaining about this when my ex was getting different expense rates when appearing as an expert witness compared to some of her colleagues.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

[Removed by poster at 04/08/12 16:07:04]

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

yes it does and I don't think there are anymore in the upper classes who think they are superior, than there are in the lower/working classes who just love feeling inferior to them....

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"In answer to the OP yes they do exist and probably always will unless we get overrun by the Chinese ... And I really don't have a problem with the Class structure at all.

One Grandad was a Sheffield Miner, the other a GWR engine driver. Mum was a cook Dad was a clerk. I am a truck driver. So I guess I am 'Working Class'. And proud of it.

I never could understand those who envy others wealth or advantages or whatever. Such is life. If you want to improve yourself you can. If you want to go to University you can. If you want to Climb Everest you can. Just work bloody hard and be the best.

"
Your so right in what you say xxxxx KISSES XX you xx

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ovedupstillCouple
over a year ago

mullinwire


"OK, another question then. What is the definition of working class and middle class?

"

now thats a more indepth question.

for me, working classes are at the coalface of industry.

those that get their hands dirty. almost, i suppose, the lowest of the low in forms of emplyment dont forget, i class myself in this bracket)

management are middle class, imo.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Just work bloody hard and be the best.

"

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It exists if you allow it to. I am classless, I can mix with anyone.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

Sorry to burst your bubble Ben.

You are working class. You may be better off financially but you are working class.

That's the problem with those who feel that because they are now earning good money , can take holidays and own homes and cars that they have somehow moved through societal strata.

You are better off... you can have more material goods but essentially you were raised with a certain mindset.

Try moving amongst the middle classes - see if you fit in.....that's if they let you in.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The classes do still exsist unfortunatley, both of my natural parents are working class and for the first 11 years of my life i was brought up on a council estate and in pubs (family trade) then my parents divorced and my mum married one of the top nhs directors in the country and there followed many elegant dinner parties with some of the highest powers in the country so i was catapulted by default into "upper" class and had to adapt to that way of living.

I am grateful to the way i was brought up as i am working class with proffesional qualifications, i dont agree with the class system in the slightest but from the age of 11 until i left home i met some amazing people and had some amazing experiences

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

for some strange reason some posters are using 'professional' and 'class' as if they are the same thing.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross


"The classes do still exsist unfortunatley, both of my natural parents are working class and for the first 11 years of my life i was brought up on a council estate and in pubs (family trade) then my parents divorced and my mum married one of the top nhs directors in the country and there followed many elegant dinner parties with some of the highest powers in the country so i was catapulted by default into "upper" class and had to adapt to that way of living.

I am grateful to the way i was brought up as i am working class with proffesional qualifications, i dont agree with the class system in the slightest but from the age of 11 until i left home i met some amazing people and had some amazing experiences "

'upper class' ? I seriously doubt that.

Going to a dinner party does not make you royalty

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

Sorry I am soooo wrong...

Your mum and dad going to a dinner party with 'powerful' people does NOT make you upper class.

Apols for ballsing things up

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

There are lots of working class people that can afford to live to a better means but they are still working class.

Professional to me is someone that can sign the back of a passport.

I come from a family of irish peasants, Jays grandfather owned music halls and his father was a foreign diplomat, all his friends are barristers, stock brokers or property dealers.

You can certainly tell the difference between us and in someways its like adjusting to people of a different culture. But hey it works for us

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *un_JuiceCouple
over a year ago

Nr Chester

Status appeased ego. Ego is a fiction of the mind. Good souls and nice human beings ideally all would be then no need to judge as superior and inferior.

But working class we would be considered

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The classes do still exsist unfortunatley, both of my natural parents are working class and for the first 11 years of my life i was brought up on a council estate and in pubs (family trade) then my parents divorced and my mum married one of the top nhs directors in the country and there followed many elegant dinner parties with some of the highest powers in the country so i was catapulted by default into "upper" class and had to adapt to that way of living.

I am grateful to the way i was brought up as i am working class with proffesional qualifications, i dont agree with the class system in the slightest but from the age of 11 until i left home i met some amazing people and had some amazing experiences

'upper class' ? I seriously doubt that.

Going to a dinner party does not make you royalty"

i agree and what i mean by the upper class is the people who class themselves as that and people in power who percieve people like me as lowly and beneath them, people with money and power create the classes, its the way they have created it, me personally i dont see anyone as better than me or below me and your right 13 course dinners with bottles of bollinger makes no difference to me whatsoever i dont even like champagne lol

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

I find its those that think they are something not those that are something that are egotistic

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My first years were spent being raised in a two room council tenement with a lavvy on the landing and baths in the 'steamy' next sink to the washing.

I have met and conversed with royalty on several occasions, lived with and owned an architects practice with a "professional"

I'm a classy lady BUT will always be a working class kid at heart.

As I said, I'm better than no-one and no-one is better than me.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *amschwingerzCouple
over a year ago

West


"OK, another question then. What is the definition of working class and middle class?

"

Working class..someone who works in a job

Middle class..someone who works in the same job..but thinks they are better then working class people because of their so called 'values' therefore feel the need to put themselves on a higher platform..

BOLLOCKS!...dont get me started on this class crap..oh too late, I have!

I hate, with a passion this 'middle class' bollocks..

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross


"The classes do still exsist unfortunatley, both of my natural parents are working class and for the first 11 years of my life i was brought up on a council estate and in pubs (family trade) then my parents divorced and my mum married one of the top nhs directors in the country and there followed many elegant dinner parties with some of the highest powers in the country so i was catapulted by default into "upper" class and had to adapt to that way of living.

I am grateful to the way i was brought up as i am working class with proffesional qualifications, i dont agree with the class system in the slightest but from the age of 11 until i left home i met some amazing people and had some amazing experiences

'upper class' ? I seriously doubt that.

Going to a dinner party does not make you royalty

i agree and what i mean by the upper class is the people who class themselves as that and people in power who percieve people like me as lowly and beneath them, people with money and power create the classes, its the way they have created it, me personally i dont see anyone as better than me or below me and your right 13 course dinners with bottles of bollinger makes no difference to me whatsoever i dont even like champagne lol "

Champagne is available to anyone with the money to buy it.

Drinking it is not an indication of class.

I love champagne.

I'm unmistakenly working class.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *G LanaTV/TS
over a year ago

Gosport


"Class divisions still exist and social inequality has been significantly increasing over the last few decades. As a nation we are letting the ruling elite slide US back to levels of inequality not seen since in the the Victorians.

A slight exaggeration if you look at the facts.

As for the 'ruling elite' well who votes for them to rule us?

We do... "

We don't get a credible option to vote for anyone else when the major parties predominantly select candidates from the same backgrounds.

As for inequality it depends on which statistics you use (or abuse) but the distribution of new wealth to the top 1% is approaching that seen in Victorian Britain. Other indicators of inequality are also rapidly increasing.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There was a lot more involved with the "upper" class set than dinner parties, my stepfather had money was classed as "upper" class and i witnessed the differences in how they treated people which was'nt pleasant, i was expected to behave in certain ways and speak in a certain way, i was glad to leave home and escape it but like i said before i was grateful for the experience as it showed me just what type of person i did'nt want to be.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Sorry to burst your bubble Ben.

You are working class. You may be better off financially but you are working class.

That's the problem with those who feel that because they are now earning good money , can take holidays and own homes and cars that they have somehow moved through societal strata.

You are better off... you can have more material goods but essentially you were raised with a certain mindset.

Try moving amongst the middle classes - see if you fit in.....that's if they let you in. "

No bubble to burst. Like I said, I don't really care about class systems either way, I think they hinder once you clasify yourself. So, I dont recognise a class strata that I fall in, and am happy to be who I am and the best person I can be.

In the Grayson Perry documentary, the middle classes were classified by themselves and others by what they did and what they owned. They seemed the most uncomfortable with who they were

Strangely, the working class and the upper class seemed happier with who they were.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire


"There was a lot more involved with the "upper" class set than dinner parties, my stepfather had money was classed as "upper" class and i witnessed the differences in how they treated people which was'nt pleasant, i was expected to behave in certain ways and speak in a certain way, i was glad to leave home and escape it but like i said before i was grateful for the experience as it showed me just what type of person i did'nt want to be.

"

So if someone who is working class wins the lottery do they over night become upper class?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

I agree with that .... the middle classes are in no mans land...self appointed social climbers.

I just want money

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross


"There was a lot more involved with the "upper" class set than dinner parties, my stepfather had money was classed as "upper" class and i witnessed the differences in how they treated people which was'nt pleasant, i was expected to behave in certain ways and speak in a certain way, i was glad to leave home and escape it but like i said before i was grateful for the experience as it showed me just what type of person i did'nt want to be.

So if someone who is working class wins the lottery do they over night become upper class?"

Well I've got tickets on for the next five weeks ... Maybe if I hadn't gambled I could be upper lower middle class.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

Well im going to appoint myself as gentry, i shall now only answer to ladydiamond

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"There was a lot more involved with the "upper" class set than dinner parties, my stepfather had money was classed as "upper" class and i witnessed the differences in how they treated people which was'nt pleasant, i was expected to behave in certain ways and speak in a certain way, i was glad to leave home and escape it but like i said before i was grateful for the experience as it showed me just what type of person i did'nt want to be.

So if someone who is working class wins the lottery do they over night become upper class?"

if only it was that easy but in a lot of peoples perceptions it could be deemed so, i'm so working class and proud of it i am a regular joe bloggs and in all honesty even when living at home i didnt treat anyone any differently than i do now

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire


"There was a lot more involved with the "upper" class set than dinner parties, my stepfather had money was classed as "upper" class and i witnessed the differences in how they treated people which was'nt pleasant, i was expected to behave in certain ways and speak in a certain way, i was glad to leave home and escape it but like i said before i was grateful for the experience as it showed me just what type of person i did'nt want to be.

So if someone who is working class wins the lottery do they over night become upper class?

if only it was that easy but in a lot of peoples perceptions it could be deemed so, i'm so working class and proud of it i am a regular joe bloggs and in all honesty even when living at home i didnt treat anyone any differently than i do now "

If your working class your working class no matter what life style you lead. I assume you went to public school, how did you fit in there

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross


"There was a lot more involved with the "upper" class set than dinner parties, my stepfather had money was classed as "upper" class and i witnessed the differences in how they treated people which was'nt pleasant, i was expected to behave in certain ways and speak in a certain way, i was glad to leave home and escape it but like i said before i was grateful for the experience as it showed me just what type of person i did'nt want to be.

So if someone who is working class wins the lottery do they over night become upper class?

if only it was that easy but in a lot of peoples perceptions it could be deemed so, i'm so working class and proud of it i am a regular joe bloggs and in all honesty even when living at home i didnt treat anyone any differently than i do now "

Really ? Im surprised m'lud

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

Income doesn't decide class.....I'm amazed that some people still believe it does.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

with more automated tasks becoming easier to achieve, with the next 10-20years...how many think they will be middle-working class...or working class?-really?

are u a cleaner?

data input?

construction worker?

and many more...

of course, there may be a few professional types of positions that will also disappear

I wouldnt look ahead to within next 20years with superiority over any class regarding financial security

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I bought my daughters partner a square metre of land in Scotland so he could call himself a Laird.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"There was a lot more involved with the "upper" class set than dinner parties, my stepfather had money was classed as "upper" class and i witnessed the differences in how they treated people which was'nt pleasant, i was expected to behave in certain ways and speak in a certain way, i was glad to leave home and escape it but like i said before i was grateful for the experience as it showed me just what type of person i did'nt want to be.

So if someone who is working class wins the lottery do they over night become upper class?"

An intersting point with the documentary was that many of the Upper Class/aristocracy in this country were not rich. The had big homes that were cash pits and although property rich, were cash poor. So maybe money does not define class.

Katie price has considerable wealth, but if she is Upper Class, I am a banana

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't belive there is so I'll let my butler answer this one.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Income doesn't decide class.....I'm amazed that some people still believe it does."

Some of the more born into it upper-class people I have met don't have a pot to piss in.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *aldybiMan
over a year ago

Shrewsbury

[Removed by poster at 04/08/12 16:51:59]

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It does still exist and thank god it does.

While we may consider ourselves past such things, we aren't. We NEED a class system in the west to get by.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *amschwingerzCouple
over a year ago

West


"yes it does.

and im proud of being working class, as was my father, and his.

wouldnt want to be anything else..

being born into privilege seems to give people a superiority complex."

Same here..and its that pride thats makes us the people we are...my father and his sister had to pick up food off the floor after the market had packed away when they were kids..and Im certainly not ashamed to tell people..i taught me the value of things.

I understand what you mean about 'not wanting to be anything else'...but that can sound like you have already put yourself in a box already..theres no harm in having aspirations.

Also..be careful when you say privileged people look down on us..they may have done 100 years ago..but times have changed..and its easy to get a chip on your shoulder about 'the haves'...and it can make you resentful, my Dad used to say 'people ike them look down there noses at us..but in reality it was a case of this class bollocks making him feel he wasnt 'good enough'..

Not having a go at you by the way x

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It does still exist and thank god it does.

While we may consider ourselves past such things, we aren't. We NEED a class system in the west to get by."

Why?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No matter what class people think they are, there is always going to be snobbery, no matter what background or upbringing people have.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I went for about four weeks and then refused to go anymore, i didnt like the way people were treated even in public schools the kids would look down their noses and almost as if they had a class system of their own, which is crazy

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"We don't get a credible option to vote for anyone else when the major parties predominantly select candidates from the same backgrounds. "

A similar statement came up in another current Thread and its actually not true. Of the 23 Government front bench people 3 are definitely 'Upper Class' independantly wealthy. But the rest are from working class, migrant or at best 'Middle Class' class. And yet to hear the media political rhetoric you'd think they were all Lord Fauntleroys...

OK they have all been to University but I don't see that as a negative thing at all. Just glad the lady in charge of Transport (for example) can add up better than I can ...

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Only in some places, such as the US, does income level determine your class. Whilst some people would like it to, it doesn't, if you believe the class system still holds. I believe it does in the UK.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ovedupstillCouple
over a year ago

mullinwire


"yes it does.

and im proud of being working class, as was my father, and his.

wouldnt want to be anything else..

being born into privilege seems to give people a superiority complex.

Same here..and its that pride thats makes us the people we are...my father and his sister had to pick up food off the floor after the market had packed away when they were kids..and Im certainly not ashamed to tell people..i taught me the value of things.

I understand what you mean about 'not wanting to be anything else'...but that can sound like you have already put yourself in a box already..theres no harm in having aspirations.

Also..be careful when you say privileged people look down on us..they may have done 100 years ago..but times have changed..and its easy to get a chip on your shoulder about 'the haves'...and it can make you resentful, my Dad used to say 'people ike them look down there noses at us..but in reality it was a case of this class bollocks making him feel he wasnt 'good enough'..

Not having a go at you by the way x"

and no offence taken.

me personally i always try to be the best i can be at what i choose to do, hence why i am in the top 5% of drivers at my place of work.

i do not feel any less than anyone else, its more i feel others think they are better than me (i never call managers by last name, mr whatever, always first name as they arent anyone special, jsut right place, right time types, imo)

my mother worked in factories all her life, and behind bars, my dad was a foundry worker, til they closed them, then went into factories.

by definition, myself and my brothers are better than they were, because we all have a vocation (we are hgv drivers) and thats all you want for your kids, is to do better in life than you.

many is the time i have told my dad i wouldnt do a job for £xyz, and he has said i would have loved to have earned that, thats what brings things home to me.

knowing how much they struggled to bring us up with a sense of duty, a work ethic, and respect for ourselves and other people.

imo middle and upper classes dont get this kind of education as they tend not to have to worry about thing s like it.

if your grandfather worked hard and made a good living, your father had to work less hard to attain that standard, and vicariously you have had to work less so again.

does that make sense?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There will be a class system as long as we still have a monarchy. Only by removing that edifice of feudalism can we start to truly eradicate the class system completely.

I'm also not suggesting that removal of the monarch brings about a society free of class distinctions.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"There will be a class system as long as we still have a monarchy. Only by removing that edifice of feudalism can we start to truly eradicate the class system completely.

I'm also not suggesting that removal of the monarch brings about a society free of class distinctions."

Forgive me but you have just argued against yourself. If you have 'Class distinctions' then by definition you have a 'Class system'. Night follows day.

And what has the Monarchy got to do with it? We have a Parliamentary Democracy where the Crown is the non political Head of State and its been that way for a very long time and (IMHO) works well for us. So you remove the Monarch, and what replaces it? A Republic and an elected Presidential Head of State? The USA system and 4 yearly paralysis while billions are spent buying influence?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *G LanaTV/TS
over a year ago

Gosport

To quote Smith Institute report on the formation of our current government.

Parliament today better reflects the the gender balance and is more ethnically diverse, but in terms of educational and vocational background the new political elite look remarkably like the establishment. It is surprising how many of our MPs were privately educated, went to Oxbridge and worked in professions, particularly Conservatives and Lib Dems. It seems that our Parliament is becoming less representative in terms of education and occupation, and continues to attract similar types of people from a rather narrow professional base.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *G LanaTV/TS
over a year ago

Gosport

The summary to the report on the educational background of the Members of Parliament from the Sutton Trust makes very similar reading.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The monarchy is the cornerstone of class as it is the quintessence of rights acquired by birth. If you also learned to read, my point is that to remove class you firstly have to remove the symbol of born privilege before you can then work to dissolve the social constructs and institutions that have evolved around it.

So no, I really don't think I am arguing against myself at all. I also think that the class system will endure whilst people bury their heads in the sand regarding the corrosive notion that having people born to a privileged position is in any way acceptable.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As I said before I don't actually have a problem with anyone going to University and using that experience to their advantage. And if more MPs and Ministers are University educated then I applaud that. I would take issue with the term 'Oxbridge' as that demeans the other excellent Universities.

And I have to say that if you look at the education afforded Government Ministers pre-University there is more State than private schooling.

Check some of the biographies and I think you will be surprised:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/hi/representatives/index.stm

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" If you also learned to read... "

An unnecessary personal remark but hey whatever ....

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *G LanaTV/TS
over a year ago

Gosport

34% of our MPs, as of 2010, went to fee paying private schools compared to national average of 7%. 19% have backgrounds in business, 15% finance, 14% law, 10% media, 12% educators, 11% PR and marketing, 24% politics (would have thought they all had backgrounds to some extent in that), 2.5% health, 4% manual labour, 1.6% agriculture, 9% voluntary sector, 4% armed services and 7% unions.

So very representative of the nation. I personally can't see that many of those who went to fee paying schools having families below upper middle class just because of the cost implication.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Don't care about class, providing the person does not have big chips on his/her shoulders, and treat others disrespectfully.

Those who truly have class, style and sophistication, do not brag about it.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *amschwingerzCouple
over a year ago

West


"yes it does.

and im proud of being working class, as was my father, and his.

wouldnt want to be anything else..

being born into privilege seems to give people a superiority complex.

Same here..and its that pride thats makes us the people we are...my father and his sister had to pick up food off the floor after the market had packed away when they were kids..and Im certainly not ashamed to tell people..i taught me the value of things.

I understand what you mean about 'not wanting to be anything else'...but that can sound like you have already put yourself in a box already..theres no harm in having aspirations.

Also..be careful when you say privileged people look down on us..they may have done 100 years ago..but times have changed..and its easy to get a chip on your shoulder about 'the haves'...and it can make you resentful, my Dad used to say 'people ike them look down there noses at us..but in reality it was a case of this class bollocks making him feel he wasnt 'good enough'..

Not having a go at you by the way x

and no offence taken.

me personally i always try to be the best i can be at what i choose to do, hence why i am in the top 5% of drivers at my place of work.

i do not feel any less than anyone else, its more i feel others think they are better than me (i never call managers by last name, mr whatever, always first name as they arent anyone special, jsut right place, right time types, imo)

my mother worked in factories all her life, and behind bars, my dad was a foundry worker, til they closed them, then went into factories.

by definition, myself and my brothers are better than they were, because we all have a vocation (we are hgv drivers) and thats all you want for your kids, is to do better in life than you.

many is the time i have told my dad i wouldnt do a job for £xyz, and he has said i would have loved to have earned that, thats what brings things home to me.

knowing how much they struggled to bring us up with a sense of duty, a work ethic, and respect for ourselves and other people.

imo middle and upper classes dont get this kind of education as they tend not to have to worry about thing s like it.

if your grandfather worked hard and made a good living, your father had to work less hard to attain that standard, and vicariously you have had to work less so again.

does that make sense?"

Very much so...

Its whats inside that counts, how you see yourself and not how you see yourself or others..

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"34% of our MPs, as of 2010, went to fee paying private schools compared to national average of 7%. 19% have backgrounds in business, 15% finance, 14% law, 10% media, 12% educators, 11% PR and marketing, 24% politics (would have thought they all had backgrounds to some extent in that), 2.5% health, 4% manual labour, 1.6% agriculture, 9% voluntary sector, 4% armed services and 7% unions.

So very representative of the nation. I personally can't see that many of those who went to fee paying schools having families below upper middle class just because of the cost implication. "

Maybe it is just because those that do get a better education (for whate ever reason) take more of an interest in active politics? Certainly those that did get to University will have been encouraged to challenge the status quo and learned how to debate issues.

Not sure that because someone has the money to buy a private education makes them Upper Middle Class? I have friends who have paid for private education for both their sons and he runs a haulage business and would cringe at the idea he is other than working class.

Maybe 'Class' measn different things to different people?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
Post new Message to Thread
back to top