FabSwingers.com forum: Saudi female Olympians

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

The two female Olympians sent by Saudi to the Games have been attracting fierce criticism from within Saudi just for being there. This from a country that bans women from driving, from going anywhere unchaperoned, where women are prevented from becoming doctors and nurses yet cannot be seen by a male doctor.

What kind of society is it that treats women so apallingly in the 21st Century? Are the men in these societies so insecure that they need to keep women firmly underfoot?

I know this could get heated but let's try and debate the issue and keep it civil.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's worrying what might happen to them when they go back.

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By *abloBackMan
over a year ago

London

Judo contestant competed yesterday in a headscarf

Was rumoured she was going to wear a nijab

Incidentally she lost in a minute

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Judo contestant competed yesterday in a headscarf

Was rumoured she was going to wear a nijab

Incidentally she lost in a minute"

That was the 16y/o. Her family have had a lot of insults thrown at them but unsurprisingly her father has stated that he'd never compromise either HIS religion or HER wearing of a hijab. (The headware she eventually wore wasn't a hijab as that was deemed dangerous by the IOC so a tight fabric helmet was fashioned specifically for her that acted as a hijab.)

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By *ovedupstillCouple
over a year ago

mullinwire

i think its rediculous that women are treated so appaulingly.

BUT....why is it our place to try and make other countries change?

if we kept our noses out of other countries business, maybe we wouldnt be as hated as the americans, and actually WIN the euro song contest sometime lol

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

These Games will be remembered as firsts for a lot of things:

a) All countries participating fielding women in the team for the first time ever

b) Oscar Pistorius and other athletes with disabilities competing alongside the able bodied in the main games.

There are already worries that women competing in these Games will seek Asylum here because of the treatment they are their families are being subjected to. I believe in human rights and so think that applies to us all and not just those of us in countries where it is acceptable. If these women seek Asylum will we welcome them and give them refuge?

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

"i think its rediculous that women are treated so appaulingly.

BUT....why is it our place to try and make other countries change?

if we kept our noses out of other countries business, maybe we wouldnt be as hated as the americans, and actually WIN the euro song contest sometime lol"

]It is not our place to make other countries change just as it is not the place of other nationalities to change our ways.

Something that realy irks me is the fact that you are not allowed to wear the skian dhu which is part of the national Scottish dress but a sihk is allowed to wear a much bigger dagger to school as long as he is baptised.

Still women are treated very badly in some countries some of which as a lot to do with crap religions.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"These Games will be remembered as firsts for a lot of things:

a) All countries participating fielding women in the team for the first time ever

b) Oscar Pistorius and other athletes with disabilities competing alongside the able bodied in the main games.

Then let the Games be remembered for the sporting achievements and not overshadowed by multiple asylum attempts. Athletes have arrived here under the banner of competing for their countries in their chosen fields, so they should leave with their teams and sort out their internal problems once they get back home.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"..a sihk is allowed to wear a much bigger dagger to school as long as he is baptised."

I worked in a factory many years ago where a Sikh arrived at work with his dagger on display. He was told to remove it and put it in his locker and take it home at the end of his shift. He was also told never to bring it to work again but he complained under racism and it was upheld, so he wore it publicly in work again... until he pulled it on someone who took the piss and held it to the man's throat, and he was immediately dismissed. He tried to take it to tribunal but was basically told he didn't have a leg to stand on.

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By *aldybiMan
over a year ago

Shrewsbury

"i think its rediculous that women are treated so appaulingly.

BUT....why is it our place to try and make other countries change?

if we kept our noses out of other countries business, maybe we wouldnt be as hated as the americans, and actually WIN the euro song contest sometime lol"

Sounds dangerously close to "take no notice and walk on by...", maybe you didn't mean it quite that way since I'm sure you would wish for someone to heed a cry for help.

In general life, as within these Forums, we have the right to voice an opinion on practises we regard as offensive, be they watersports or misogyny.

Naturally we shouldn't expect anyone to take notice of that opinion. (c:

I believe keeping silent in the face of oppression is viewed by the oppressor as weakness or support.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"..a sihk is allowed to wear a much bigger dagger to school as long as he is baptised.

Nor should he have! The dispensation to wear all the Ks is given with the explicit understanding that these are religious requirements and are ceremonial. Any other use is criminal.

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By *ovedupstillCouple
over a year ago

mullinwire

"i think its rediculous that women are treated so appaulingly.

BUT....why is it our place to try and make other countries change?

if we kept our noses out of other countries business, maybe we wouldnt be as hated as the americans, and actually WIN the euro song contest sometime lol

Sounds dangerously close to "take no notice and walk on by...", maybe you didn't mean it quite that way since I'm sure you would wish for someone to heed a cry for help.

In general life, as within these Forums, we have the right to voice an opinion on practises we regard as offensive, be they watersports or misogyny.

Naturally we shouldn't expect anyone to take notice of that opinion. (c:

I believe keeping silent in the face of oppression is viewed by the oppressor as weakness or support."

there is a huge difference between voicing an opinion and invasion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Saudis are devoutly muslim and as such women are looked down upon. Has been this way for thousands of years.

There has been advances though. They recently gained the right to vote. Who are we to critise another country's culture and beliefs?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"..a sihk is allowed to wear a much bigger dagger to school as long as he is baptised.

Pretty much every sikh I've ever met has been more than happy to carry a miniture one and/or conceal it in their turban. To be honest your employers were neglectful in not insisting on one of those compromises which is widely accepted within the sikh community.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"..a sihk is allowed to wear a much bigger dagger to school as long as he is baptised.

We're talking 25 years ago and the bosses didn't really have that much experience of dealing with these issues. The sikh guy tried to get everything his own way and got found out.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Fair play to the woman for competing in the Olympics. I work within the Muslim community in the town where I live and understand the importance of wearing a scarf. My concern would be for the safety of the woman when they return to Saudi Arabia, it wouldn't surprise me if there was a claim for asylum put in due to fear of persecution. We should be proud of these women for competing and standing up against the discrimination against themselves in their native country.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Saudi has one of the most oppressive regimes of all the Muslim countries. But wealth and power mean that is not too much of a problem to the west and their anti-islam crusade.

As a slight aside but on the subject of head scarfs, I ran the Marrakech marathon earlier this year and there were many women runners with lightweight scarves clearly designed for sport.

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

"Saudi has one of the most oppressive regimes of all the Muslim countries. But wealth and power mean that is not too much of a problem to the west and their anti-islam crusade.

As a slight aside but on the subject of head scarfs, I ran the Marrakech marathon earlier this year and there were many women runners with lightweight scarves clearly designed for sport."

You believe the west has an anti islam crusade?

I believe the opossite in that they bend over backwards to accomodate in the UK at least.

and those women were very brave considering where they come from and they realy wont know what is waiting on them on their return home.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

and those women were very brave considering where they come from and they realy wont know what is waiting on them on their return home."

This may well be the first and last Games with Saudi women competing for that reason.

It's very powerful to 'show' that they are 'allowed' but to have the experience, not from the authorities but from the ordinary folk, family and neighbours, to be hostile.

Other Islamic nations may then follow suit and women's human rights will be put back further.

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By *abloBackMan
over a year ago

London

It takes pioneers, these women are pioneers

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By *ovedupstillCouple
over a year ago

mullinwire

"It takes pioneers, these women are pioneers"

ours is a phillips

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

Misogyny is alive and well and a lot closer to home than Saudi.

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By *abloBackMan
over a year ago

London

"It takes pioneers, these women are pioneers

ours is a phillips"

We had a bush in the olden days

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"Misogyny is alive and well and a lot closer to home than Saudi."

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By *ovedupstillCouple
over a year ago

mullinwire

"Misogyny is alive and well and a lot closer to home than Saudi."

swear she was my teacher in primary school

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"Misogyny is alive and well and a lot closer to home than Saudi.

swear she was my teacher in primary school"

She never spanked you enough.

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By *ensualtouch15Man
over a year ago

ashby de la zouch

"Saudis are devoutly muslim and as such women are looked down upon. Has been this way for thousands of years.

There has been advances though. They recently gained the right to vote. Who are we to critise another country's culture and beliefs? "

who are we? We are caring human that's who . It really annoys me when brutality and injustice is defended with religion or long standing cultural practice argument . I can articulately illustrate why raping or beating a woman is wrong regardless of any facts that the practice has been acceptable for 1000s of years

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It takes pioneers, these women are pioneers"

The mere fact they are here and competing is a fantastic step forward.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It takes pioneers, these women are pioneers

The mere fact they are here and competing is a fantastic step forward."

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By *ovedupstillCouple
over a year ago

mullinwire

"Misogyny is alive and well and a lot closer to home than Saudi.

swear she was my teacher in primary school

She never spanked you enough."

if i were a few years older, i would have insisted on it lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"i think its rediculous that women are treated so appaulingly.

BUT....why is it our place to try and make other countries change?

if we kept our noses out of other countries business, maybe we wouldnt be as hated as the americans, and actually WIN the euro song contest sometime lol"

Because the notions of women being slaves irk most men?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To be honest with you i dont really know enough about the culture to pass comment on the subject, all i know is what you read in papers and the media hate hype and i learned a long time ago not to believe everything i read and are told, tho im sure there is some truth in what we are told about the culture in sure not everyone out there are are the same and some stories arte greatly exaggerated

There are extremists in every culture/religion and till i have enough first hand experience so i knew what i was talking about rather than what im told by papers id sooner not pass comment

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 04/08/12 15:57:58]

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By *amschwingerzCouple
over a year ago

West

What kind of society is it that treats women so apallingly in the 21st Century? "

They are a disgrace...but the west will keep kissing their arses because of all the oil..

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By *oe_Steve_NWestCouple
over a year ago

Bolton

it hasn't really got anything to do with us - there are atrocities going on in many countries, we do intefere in a lot when i think that we should keep our noses out. Z

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By *ovedupstillCouple
over a year ago

mullinwire

"i think its rediculous that women are treated so appaulingly.

BUT....why is it our place to try and make other countries change?

if we kept our noses out of other countries business, maybe we wouldnt be as hated as the americans, and actually WIN the euro song contest sometime lol

Because the notions of women being slaves irk most men?"

judging by attitudes to women in this country (UK and IRELAND) still, i wouldnt say so, no.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"it hasn't really got anything to do with us - there are atrocities going on in many countries, we do intefere in a lot when i think that we should keep our noses out. Z"

Globalisation, aeroplanes, oil and so many other factors mean that we are not all separate anymore. As I stated earlier, human rights should extend to all.

This poem always comes to mind when people, me included, say that we shouldn't interfere:

First they came for the communists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me

and there was no one left to speak out for me.

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By *oe_Steve_NWestCouple
over a year ago

Bolton

"it hasn't really got anything to do with us - there are atrocities going on in many countries, we do intefere in a lot when i think that we should keep our noses out. Z

Globalisation, aeroplanes, oil and so many other factors mean that we are not all separate anymore. As I stated earlier, human rights should extend to all.

This poem always comes to mind when people, me included, say that we shouldn't interfere:

First they came for the communists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me

and there was no one left to speak out for me.

Fair point, we're awfully good at looking at other countries and pointing out their failings, problems etc - that's all well and good but there is a lot to do in our own country as well. Z

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

"it hasn't really got anything to do with us - there are atrocities going on in many countries, we do intefere in a lot when i think that we should keep our noses out. Z

Globalisation, aeroplanes, oil and so many other factors mean that we are not all separate anymore. As I stated earlier, human rights should extend to all.

This poem always comes to mind when people, me included, say that we shouldn't interfere:

First they came for the communists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me

and there was no one left to speak out for me.

Fair point, we're awfully good at looking at other countries and pointing out their failings, problems etc - that's all well and good but there is a lot to do in our own country as well. Z"

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

"Misogyny is alive and well and a lot closer to home than Saudi."

Totally agree Granny....

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By *G LanaTV/TS
over a year ago

Gosport

"This poem always comes to mind when people, me included, say that we shouldn't interfere:

First they came for the communists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me

and there was no one left to speak out for me.

I like this poem/hymn attributed to Pastor Neimöller even though it seems to be an interpretation of his speeches rather than a strict translation of any single quote.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The Saudi runner,Sarah Attar. Has she ever stepped foot inside Saudi Arabia?

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"The Saudi runner,Sarah Attar. Has she ever stepped foot inside Saudi Arabia?"

no but she has dual nationality with the other being USA

does it matter though?

the Lithuanian girl who won gold in the pool lives and goes to school on Devon or something

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"The Saudi runner,Sarah Attar. Has she ever stepped foot inside Saudi Arabia?"

She has dual nationality doe to her father being a Saudi and her mother an American. She was born in California and she will run in the 800m although she is expected to wear clothing appropriate to representing Saudi Arabia beliefs, customs and practices. Saudi Arabia were threatened with a comple ban on attending the Olympics *unless* they permitted female athletes to compete.

Well done IOC on that one.

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By *oe_Steve_NWestCouple
over a year ago

Bolton

[Removed by poster at 04/08/12 17:16:32]

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

[Removed by poster at 04/08/12 17:16:44]

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By *amschwingerzCouple
over a year ago

West

"The Saudi runner,Sarah Attar. Has she ever stepped foot inside Saudi Arabia?

no but she has dual nationality with the other being USA

does it matter though?

the Lithuanian girl who won gold in the pool lives and goes to school on Devon or something"

Yep...but the danger is that it could make a difference in years to come..if countries are going to enter as countries then surely they should include people from that country?..not 'representatives'..

Otherwise it will end up like the English Premiership..foreign owners, paying foreign managers who buy 99% foreign players..

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By *john121Man
over a year ago

staffs

"it hasn't really got anything to do with us - there are atrocities going on in many countries, we do intefere in a lot when i think that we should keep our noses out. Z"

So when you decide to holiday there and get caught and are arrested for kissing in public don't expect any support

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

There are many British athletes who leave this country to train in other countries where the training facilities are much better or the coaches are better than here. One's place of residence, or indeed one's country of birth doesn't neccessarily mean that that's where one's loyalties lie.

The girl from Lithuania may live here because her family decided they wanted a better life - and it looks like it paid off - but that doesn't make her automatically British.

I don't have a problem with anyone getting to the Olympics if they've got there on merit irrespective of their personal status.

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By *john121Man
over a year ago

staffs

"it hasn't really got anything to do with us - there are atrocities going on in many countries, we do intefere in a lot when i think that we should keep our noses out. Z

Globalisation, aeroplanes, oil and so many other factors mean that we are not all separate anymore. As I stated earlier, human rights should extend to all.

This poem always comes to mind when people, me included, say that we shouldn't interfere:

First they came for the communists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me

and there was no one left to speak out for me.

Fair point, we're awfully good at looking at other countries and pointing out their failings, problems etc - that's all well and good but there is a lot to do in our own country as well. Z"

Yes there is but you're allowed a point of view and you won't get stoned for it!

Hasn't it just been made clear to you that the couple who murdered their daughter were acting as if the lived in rural Pakistan as described by the judge was unacceptable here and as far as I'm sure most believe is unacceptable there too?

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By *ovedupstillCouple
over a year ago

mullinwire

"it hasn't really got anything to do with us - there are atrocities going on in many countries, we do intefere in a lot when i think that we should keep our noses out. Z

So when you decide to holiday there and get caught and are arrested for kissing in public don't expect any support"

fine by me.

i have no intention of seeing any more of this planet outside of the UK and ireland, so again, what they do there is nothing to do with me personally.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't have a problem with anyone getting to the Olympics if they've got there on merit irrespective of their personal status."

Sarah Attar's best time is 2 40.As opposed to the years best time of 1'55. She hasn't run a competitive 800 since high school.

Hardly on merit

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By *ovedupstillCouple
over a year ago

mullinwire

"Yes there is but you're allowed a point of view and you won't get stoned for it!

and, possibly, without Western influences, the daughter wouldnt have behaved in such a manner.

dont for one second believe we have a great society.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Yes there is but you're allowed a point of view and you won't get stoned for it!

and, possibly, without Western influences, the daughter wouldnt have behaved in such a manner.

dont for one second believe we have a great society."

If that's the case, and her parents wanted her to remain unexposed to decadent western influences, maybe they should have had their children in Pakistan and then remained there.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I don't have a problem with anyone getting to the Olympics if they've got there on merit irrespective of their personal status.

Sarah Attar's best time is 2 40.As opposed to the years best time of 1'55. She hasn't run a competitive 800 since high school.

Hardly on merit"

It is if she's the only female Saudi with a decent enough time to go to the Olympics and not embarrass herself or her country. She's probably the only female Saudi 800m runner anyway.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"it hasn't really got anything to do with us - there are atrocities going on in many countries, we do intefere in a lot when i think that we should keep our noses out. Z

So when you decide to holiday there and get caught and are arrested for kissing in public don't expect any support"

If you unmarried that is.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is if she's the only female Saudi with a decent enough time to go to the Olympics and not embarrass herself or her country. "

The b standard qualifying time is 2 01 so she's 39 seconds off the slowest pace.

so she doesn't have a decent enough time.will she embarrass the saudis? it'll be hard to tell from california

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