FabSwingers.com forum: Undercover police in clubs and bars

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

To combat female harassment and protect women from predatory males.

Can it work?

Apparently there's already a pilot of this, in Thames Valley police area.

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By *allySlinkyWoman
over a year ago

Leeds

It wouldn't have helped Sarah Everard

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Too many officers would be needed so I don't think it would work.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They'd have to put them everywhere.

These things don't just happen at bars and clubs.

Harsher sentencing for barrassment and assaults. Better education. That would be a start. Hold men accountable.

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By *nliveneTV/TS
over a year ago

Selby

"It wouldn't have helped Sarah Everard"

So true

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By *ontyguy 39.Man
over a year ago

Pontypridd

"They'd have to put them everywhere.

These things don't just happen at bars and clubs.

Harsher sentencing for barrassment and assaults. Better education. That would be a start. Hold men accountable.

Not all men!! Some men never have and never will raise a hand to a women!! Don't tarr all men with the same brush.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They'd have to put them everywhere.

These things don't just happen at bars and clubs.

Harsher sentencing for barrassment and assaults. Better education. That would be a start. Hold men accountable.

Not all men!! Some men never have and never will raise a hand to a women!! Don't tarr all men with the same brush."

jeezus I'm sick of hearing this.

If it's not you, I'm not talking about you!

Isn't it funny tho, we all know a woman who's been harassed by a man, yet none of you seem to know a man who would harass a woman.

Don't take offence to things that aren't about you.

Do you use #alllivesmatter too?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They've being doing it for years! Trying to catch guys how drug ladies drinks ...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They've being doing it for years! Trying to catch guys how drug ladies drinks ... "

Who*

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"They'd have to put them everywhere.

These things don't just happen at bars and clubs.

Harsher sentencing for barrassment and assaults. Better education. That would be a start. Hold men accountable.

Not all men!! Some men never have and never will raise a hand to a women!! Don't tarr all men with the same brush."

This sort of nonsense detracts, as it's meant to, I suspect.

It's not all men, but it's enough men to mean it's a problem that should be taken seriously.

As decent men, we simply need to listen to and believe women and think of how we can help.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"They'd have to put them everywhere.

These things don't just happen at bars and clubs.

Harsher sentencing for barrassment and assaults. Better education. That would be a start. Hold men accountable.

Not all men!! Some men never have and never will raise a hand to a women!! Don't tarr all men with the same brush."

Congratulations, you get a blue Peter badge. Now, tell me exactly what men specifically we need to be educating and punishing. I'm talking names and addresses here. Until you can do that it will be 'men' mentioned in this conversation.

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By *edangel_2013Woman
over a year ago

southend

Not all men!! Some men never have and never will raise a hand to a women!! Don't tarr all men with the same brush."

And, it isn't just about physical violence. I know of many men that would never hit a woman, including my ex partner. Didn't stop him controlling my finances and who I was and was not allowed to see, including my GP. But its OK, because he never hit me.

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall

Would it be better if we just called them abusers rather than men? Maybe it would be less divisive and actually get men’s ear rather than instantly putting them on the defensive as we have seen in pretty much all of these threads over the last week.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They'd have to put them everywhere.

These things don't just happen at bars and clubs.

Harsher sentencing for barrassment and assaults. Better education. That would be a start. Hold men accountable.

Not all men!! Some men never have and never will raise a hand to a women!! Don't tarr all men with the same brush.

jeezus I'm sick of hearing this.

If it's not you, I'm not talking about you!

Isn't it funny tho, we all know a woman who's been harassed by a man, yet none of you seem to know a man who would harass a woman.

Don't take offence to things that aren't about you.

Do you use #alllivesmatter too?

Well said

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Would it be better if we just called them abusers rather than men? Maybe it would be less divisive and actually get men’s ear rather than instantly putting them on the defensive as we have seen in pretty much all of these threads over the last week.

No. Why should we sugar coat it so it's easier for them to digest?

No one sugar coats it for us.

We don't know who the abusers are. We're wary of men.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not all men!! Some men never have and never will raise a hand to a women!! Don't tarr all men with the same brush.

Emotional abuse can be just as bad in many ways than physical. Well said

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall

No. Why should we sugar coat it so it's easier for them to digest?

No one sugar coats it for us.

We don't know who the abusers are. We're wary of men.

Is your objective to just vilify men or actually ask for them to co operate?

Would you rather have all the good men on side and work with you against the abusers?

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By *emorefridaCouple
over a year ago

La la land

You know what there was a thread yesterday on toxic femininity. Not one female on that thread felt the need to say not all women. In fact some of us admitted we've made mistakes in the past and that we're not perfect. But we're open to learning and being better.

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

"They'd have to put them everywhere.

These things don't just happen at bars and clubs.

Harsher sentencing for barrassment and assaults. Better education. That would be a start. Hold men accountable.

Not all men!! Some men never have and never will raise a hand to a women!! Don't tarr all men with the same brush."

As I said on another thread. I don’t feel tarred with the same brush. It’s not an attack on “all men” at all.

It’s an attack on those that do it and have attitudes that never belonged in the first place.

Be easy.

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By *emorefridaCouple
over a year ago

La la land

And to answer the OP, generally speaking the bouncers I've approached have been really useful when I've asked for help.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No. Why should we sugar coat it so it's easier for them to digest?

No one sugar coats it for us.

We don't know who the abusers are. We're wary of men.

Is your objective to just vilify men or actually ask for them to co operate?

Would you rather have all the good men on side and work with you against the abusers?"

When I talk about men. I'm not talking about all men.

Those vilified are the villains.

I'm not going to feel guilty because SOME men think this is all about them.

Can you tell which men are abusers and which aren't? Cos I can't.

The good men are on side. I know lots of them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No because it's a problem that involves all men. It's our friends,family or ourselves that are acting in ways that make it a acceptable environment for this behaviour. Until the men who aren't assaulting/harassing women hold the men who do accountable then it's going to continue. Once we beat the main stigma then we can focus on who are the real abusers as there are too many catcallers, office creeps and oogling men that could become abusers.

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall

"And to answer the OP, generally speaking the bouncers I've approached have been really useful when I've asked for help.

I have found this too. They are quite intolerant of this sort of behaviour, usually from d*unks.

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

Time to stop these threads maybe.. they are becoming very decisive.

As for undercover cops in bars etc.. think of any small town, the number of bars, the routes home etc etc.. the amount of police needed, it's a political message to try and placate... Freeing up more police... Not sure we have any left... Every policeman in a bar is one less to respond to live incidents... Now tell me this.. imagine one busy bar on a Friday night in a town centre.. how exactly does the officer spot the harassment.. attitudes need changing ..

It won't work..

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By *emorefridaCouple
over a year ago

La la land

"Time to stop these threads maybe.. they are becoming very decisive.

It won't work.."

True but maybe safe areas in towns and city's, could work where you walk to if you feel you're being followed or wait for a taxi without fear.

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

"Time to stop these threads maybe.. they are becoming very decisive.

It won't work..

True but maybe safe areas in towns and city's, could work where you walk to if you feel you're being followed or wait for a taxi without fear. "

Now that sounds like a plan

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall

You are agreeing with my point. I think that a less divisive approach would be more beneficial.

I’m not taking part in these threads any more. All I see is a bunch of angry people baying for blood. I don’t like the amount of spite and vitriol that I’ve read on these forums recently. No one seems interested in a solution, they just want blood!

I fear humanity is going backwards rather than forwards.

Peace out.

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By *ittleMissCaliWoman
over a year ago

all loved up

What upsets me with all this is will it put back the years of progress of men being abused by women... many men won't come forward as it is.... I fear this will stop them. Like with the BLM fiasco..where it was decided all lives matter.. everyone deserves the right to get home okay.. yet more men are murdered or attacked than women in general. ( yes often by men) but surely they should be looking to make the streets safer for all not just women

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Too many officers would be needed so I don't think it would work. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What upsets me with all this is will it put back the years of progress of men being abused by women... many men won't come forward as it is.... I fear this will stop them. Like with the BLM fiasco..where it was decided all lives matter.. everyone deserves the right to get home okay.. yet more men are murdered or attacked than women in general. ( yes often by men) but surely they should be looking to make the streets safer for all not just women "

Fair point

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

No it won’t work, not enough staff for a start.

Police yourselves and your friends, tell your female & male friends what they are saying or doing isn’t right, have that conversation why.

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By *hynot3Man
over a year ago

Middlesbrough

"They'd have to put them everywhere.

These things don't just happen at bars and clubs.

Harsher sentencing for barrassment and assaults. Better education. That would be a start. Hold men accountable.

Not all men!! Some men never have and never will raise a hand to a women!! Don't tarr all men with the same brush."

Well said

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not all men!! Some men never have and never will raise a hand to a women!! Don't tarr all men with the same brush.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You are agreeing with my point. I think that a less divisive approach would be more beneficial.

I fear humanity is going backwards rather than forwards.

Peace out.

Yeah we're on the same side. When something like this is being spoken about so publicly you will see extreme views and anger as people are finally allowed to be upset about something they have been living with. While the argument might be divisive it is also a problem that mostly affects only one side.

If you look through the forums there are many threads talking about possible solutions but most aren't practical.

If you see this as humanity going backwards not forwards then how do we overcome something so prevalent without airing the anger and resentment first?

Yeah the main thing to remember is your going to see the best and worst reactions on forums so it would be good to step away for a while.

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By *sm265Woman
over a year ago

Shangri-la

It just isn't practical to put police in every bar or club.

I think there is definitely a need to educate and also to raise awareness of the type of behaviour that can make a woman, or anyone in fact, feel threatened or vulnerable. Some people probably aren't even aware that their bevaviour is intimidating and they are actually part of the problem.

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By *hrista BellendWoman
over a year ago

surrounded by twinkly lights

Lots of bars and clubs in Southampton have employed security and bouncers for years, it doesn't stop the attacks on people in the park though, some taxis home were not safe, some bus rides home were not safe...

Predators can be anyone and anywhere

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By *sm265Woman
over a year ago

Shangri-la

"No it won’t work, not enough staff for a start.

Police yourselves and your friends, tell your female & male friends what they are saying or doing isn’t right, have that conversation why. "

This!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To combat female harassment and protect women from predatory males.

Can it work?

Apparently there's already a pilot of this, in Thames Valley police area."

Depends on the force. Large metropolitan forces always have plain clothes crime teams that focus on one particular issue, such as pick pocketing, drug dealing, stuff like that. Wouldn’t be a great issue for those teams to be retasked. Anywhere smaller just wouldn’t have the capability to do it .

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By *ittleAcornMan
over a year ago

visiting the beach

One aspect that needs addressing, is that at present there is such a low chance of a case making it to court, then a really low chance of a guilty verdict.

It's basically a license to commit these crimes. Talk of increasing sentences is pointless, if no one is being convicted.

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By *ea monkeyMan
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)

No because it demonises them and distances people from the issue, that’s been part of the problem

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They'd probably try to pick the girls up themselves. Get them pregnant and disappear and then be given immunity.. All happened before with undercover arseholes.

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By *ea monkeyMan
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)

You are agreeing with my point. I think that a less divisive approach would be more beneficial.

I fear humanity is going backwards rather than forwards.

Peace out.

Plenty of people have given viable solutions and ongoing resolutions, the issue is when people keep springing back to the “not all men” it starts all over again.

I find it ironic that some people keep causing arguments then complain that the forum is full of bad feelings. Then stop causing arguments!

This issue requires actual change from people, you can’t argue around it or dismiss it. That’s what people are having trouble with; they’re going to have to alter attitudes

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You are agreeing with my point. I think that a less divisive approach would be more beneficial.

I fear humanity is going backwards rather than forwards.

Peace out.

Plenty of people have given viable solutions and ongoing resolutions, the issue is when people keep springing back to the “not all men” it starts all over again.

I find it ironic that some people keep causing arguments then complain that the forum is full of bad feelings. Then stop causing arguments!

This issue requires actual change from people, you can’t argue around it or dismiss it. That’s what people are having trouble with; they’re going to have to alter attitudes "

You're going to have to say something I disagree with soon...

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

Back to the op

I'm not really sure how practical it is?there are literally 100s of bars and pubs in liverpool.considering the police have already been cut to the bone,I'm not really sure how this would work?

The root causes need to he looked at ,rather than simply doing something, just so it looks like they are making an effort.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"One aspect that needs addressing, is that at present there is such a low chance of a case making it to court, then a really low chance of a guilty verdict.

It's basically a license to commit these crimes. Talk of increasing sentences is pointless, if no one is being convicted. "

There was a piece in the paper which said the number of cases which actually get to court is a fraction of what is reported.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Isn’t that what door staff are employed to do maintain the safety of customers there aren’t enough officer to cover the duties they currently have and government cuts mean there will soon be far less despite the alleged promise of 20000 more that doesn’t cover those who leave retirement etc

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No it won’t work, not enough staff for a start.

Police yourselves and your friends, tell your female & male friends what they are saying or doing isn’t right, have that conversation why. "

This is what might have a huge impact for a real change, re-educate ourselves and try to others. Starting at home. Do fathers talk to their sons about this topics. Do they ever tell them, "Do not harass women at the disco" or would they instead tell teach the "tricks" with women?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Too many cops needed won't work. You can't stop a random mad man intent on some stupid shit.

I've been touched and followed by men and women and it's not nice at all...my old boss would touch and make comments....creepy as fuck!

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

"One aspect that needs addressing, is that at present there is such a low chance of a case making it to court, then a really low chance of a guilty verdict.

It's basically a license to commit these crimes. Talk of increasing sentences is pointless, if no one is being convicted.

There was a piece in the paper which said the number of cases which actually get to court is a fraction of what is reported."

Law requires evidence, which is mostly their word against each other in these cases, so how do you change that to protect both parties ?

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By *ea monkeyMan
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)

"No it won’t work, not enough staff for a start.

Police yourselves and your friends, tell your female & male friends what they are saying or doing isn’t right, have that conversation why. "

This is the resolution. It’s simple.

I don’t understand why people can’t accept this.

Well I do, it’s because that requires actual action from people and guys can’t just pay lip service

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"One aspect that needs addressing, is that at present there is such a low chance of a case making it to court, then a really low chance of a guilty verdict.

It's basically a license to commit these crimes. Talk of increasing sentences is pointless, if no one is being convicted.

There was a piece in the paper which said the number of cases which actually get to court is a fraction of what is reported.

Law requires evidence, which is mostly their word against each other in these cases, so how do you change that to protect both parties ? "

Dunno..its a tricky one..obvs each case wouod vary from case to case.

I think it was looking at the met in particular and said they investigated a very small number (which could be a resource issue?)

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

"No it won’t work, not enough staff for a start.

Police yourselves and your friends, tell your female & male friends what they are saying or doing isn’t right, have that conversation why.

Why should it be left up to the males in their lives, the mums should be doing the talking to. Both can explain what is wrong and right, how to interact with people in all aspects of life.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"No it won’t work, not enough staff for a start.

Police yourselves and your friends, tell your female & male friends what they are saying or doing isn’t right, have that conversation why.

I'll be honest..my parents never sat me down and said..now when you go to a school disco..dont be a weirdo and go and harass some poor girl who isnt interested.

I just took it as red.

Maybe its just something in you...where you think its ok?

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

"One aspect that needs addressing, is that at present there is such a low chance of a case making it to court, then a really low chance of a guilty verdict.

It's basically a license to commit these crimes. Talk of increasing sentences is pointless, if no one is being convicted.

There was a piece in the paper which said the number of cases which actually get to court is a fraction of what is reported.

Law requires evidence, which is mostly their word against each other in these cases, so how do you change that to protect both parties ?

Dunno..its a tricky one..obvs each case wouod vary from case to case.

I think it was looking at the met in particular and said they investigated a very small number (which could be a resource issue?)"

Without seeing the article and putting it into context hard to comment on why.

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By *ea monkeyMan
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)

"No it won’t work, not enough staff for a start.

Police yourselves and your friends, tell your female & male friends what they are saying or doing isn’t right, have that conversation why.

I’m on a Dads group on FB and the general response it that dads are teaching sons respect and not to harass. However, exactly what that looks like, whether it’s reinforced and what they constitute as harassment is a different matter.

I also asked a question about taking no for a complete answer and I was saddened by how many guys pester and pursue for dates

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

Nope. Unless it was female officers. The men who do that sort of thing are usually cowardly and deliberately don't do it in front of other men which is why a lot of men have no idea how widespread the problem is. They wait until those odd moments you're alone and vulnerable like if you go to the toilet or bar on your own which is why most women go to the toilets in groups (as much as many like to laugh about this we do it for our safety). Otherwise its sneaky and opportunistic like groping you when passing in a crowd. At times I myself have had no idea who it was. I've literally had it happen while holding hands with my boyfriend and he's not noticed it's been that sneaky. So no unfortunately I don't think it will help.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"One aspect that needs addressing, is that at present there is such a low chance of a case making it to court, then a really low chance of a guilty verdict.

It's basically a license to commit these crimes. Talk of increasing sentences is pointless, if no one is being convicted.

There was a piece in the paper which said the number of cases which actually get to court is a fraction of what is reported.

Law requires evidence, which is mostly their word against each other in these cases, so how do you change that to protect both parties ?

Dunno..its a tricky one..obvs each case wouod vary from case to case.

I think it was looking at the met in particular and said they investigated a very small number (which could be a resource issue?)

Without seeing the article and putting it into context hard to comment on why. "

I'll try and dig it out

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By *hrista BellendWoman
over a year ago

surrounded by twinkly lights

"No it won’t work, not enough staff for a start.

Police yourselves and your friends, tell your female & male friends what they are saying or doing isn’t right, have that conversation why.

I'll be honest..my parents never sat me down and said..now when you go to a school disco..dont be a weirdo and go and harass some poor girl who isnt interested.

I just took it as red.

Maybe its just something in you...where you think its ok?"

Its alcohol, how many people have touched others at the disco when it was not wanted but didn't get told to stop, Same as in clubs people deem it their right to sexually touch others

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"No it won’t work, not enough staff for a start.

Police yourselves and your friends, tell your female & male friends what they are saying or doing isn’t right, have that conversation why.

I'll be honest..my parents never sat me down and said..now when you go to a school disco..dont be a weirdo and go and harass some poor girl who isnt interested.

I just took it as red.

Maybe its just something in you...where you think its ok?

Its alcohol, how many people have touched others at the disco when it was not wanted but didn't get told to stop, Same as in clubs people deem it their right to sexually touch others"

I dont think alcohol is an excuse tbh.

It must still be in you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They'd have to put them everywhere.

These things don't just happen at bars and clubs.

Harsher sentencing for barrassment and assaults. Better education. That would be a start. Hold men accountable.

Tagging for repeat offenders.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No it won’t work, not enough staff for a start.

Police yourselves and your friends, tell your female & male friends what they are saying or doing isn’t right, have that conversation why.

Why should it be left up to the males in their lives, the mums should be doing the talking to. Both can explain what is wrong and right, how to interact with people in all aspects of life. "

As a father of teenage boys I often feel in damage control mode. My boys sometimes come back home with questions, expressions or attitudes which are rather remote from what I teach them. Whether they picked them up at school from friends, on the bus, on the street, on the web...i don’t know. I try my best to correct them and I hope for the best.

My point being, rather than point the finger at any specific group of people (like in this case « do fathers do this or that ? ») let’s take responsibility collectively. We’re all part of the problem to some respect, we should all be part of the solution and do our bit.

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By *emini ManMan
over a year ago

There and to the left a bit

I'll be honest..my parents never sat me down and said..now when you go to a school disco..dont be a weirdo and go and harass some poor girl who isnt interested.

I just took it as read.

Maybe its just something in you...where you think its ok?"

Thing is it's not necessarily about laying it out prescriptively in black and white and as much about instilling morals, values and respect and the general way you are bought up, so it's as much about how you are nurtured as anything and the values you are taught, and examples that are set for you.

It doesn't have to be about being sat down and told "now don't do x, y and z" - because with the right set of values, as you say a lot of it is taken as read and is just second nature.

Likewise with the wrong set of values it goes the other way - and it's that second scenario that needs to be addressed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No it won’t work, not enough staff for a start.

Police yourselves and your friends, tell your female & male friends what they are saying or doing isn’t right, have that conversation why.

Why should it be left up to the males in their lives, the mums should be doing the talking to. Both can explain what is wrong and right, how to interact with people in all aspects of life. "

Totally agree. I never meant to leave the mothers out of the picture but its challenging asking the men because the majority of aggression comes from men. I said majority not all. There is aggression from women too but we are discussing men ruling men to protect women.

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By *ermite12ukMan
over a year ago

Solihull and Brentwood

Back in the 80's a non profit group was formed in the USA primarily New York. It then went international to London.

"The Guardian Angels was/is a non-profit international volunteer organization of unarmed crime prevention people."

Might be a good idea perhaps again? Would need to look at the crime stats of the era, to make a judgement call. But then the problem would shift to the areas that wasn't being patrolled.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

I'll be honest..my parents never sat me down and said..now when you go to a school disco..dont be a weirdo and go and harass some poor girl who isnt interested.

I just took it as read.

Maybe its just something in you...where you think its ok?

It doesn't have to be about being sat down and told "now don't do x, y and z" - because with the right set of values, as you say a lot of it is taken as read and is just second nature.

Likewise with the wrong set of values it goes the other way - and it's that second scenario that needs to be addressed."

True..its the whole environment.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"You know what there was a thread yesterday on toxic femininity. Not one female on that thread felt the need to say not all women. In fact some of us admitted we've made mistakes in the past and that we're not perfect. But we're open to learning and being better. "

Because as women we're so damn used to hearing about, accepting and even laughing ourselves at the faults of our gender. Women are crazy, over emotional, high maintenance, gold diggers, bitchy, competitive with each other, vain, too naggy, desperate for an engagement ring, always expect to be paid for, etc, etc, etc.

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

"No it won’t work, not enough staff for a start.

Police yourselves and your friends, tell your female & male friends what they are saying or doing isn’t right, have that conversation why.

Why should it be left up to the males in their lives, the mums should be doing the talking to. Both can explain what is wrong and right, how to interact with people in all aspects of life.

Precisely this, I get so many questions from my lad or he’ll say something he’s picked up elsewhere. We have very frank, open chats about everything and anything, no subject is off limits. It’s been hot topic these last 3/4 weeks as gender is the topic of both English and PHSE.

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By *it ov quality!Man
over a year ago

west yorkshire

So quite a few women would like under cover police in bars etc, wasn't it a police man responsible?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

ALCOHOL is just another excuse. And yes fathers need to step in big time. Its a vicious circle. Patterns keep repeating over and over again and sorry but as a mother I should not have to teach my daughters how not to be harassed. I also have a son. And I will teach him that the naked body of a woman is to cherish, respect and admire, not to abuse. Fathers can you do the same please.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"Time to stop these threads maybe.. they are becoming very decisive.

It won't work..

True but maybe safe areas in towns and city's, could work where you walk to if you feel you're being followed or wait for a taxi without fear. "

I've seen some hotels posting on social media about offering this. A safe place women can come to where staff can call them a taxi and be around while they wait. A great idea as many have 24hr reception areas. Granted probably only useful in cities where we have hotels dotted around but its something

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

"No it won’t work, not enough staff for a start.

Police yourselves and your friends, tell your female & male friends what they are saying or doing isn’t right, have that conversation why.

Why should it be left up to the males in their lives, the mums should be doing the talking to. Both can explain what is wrong and right, how to interact with people in all aspects of life.

I’m confused on that last sentence, the OP is about undercover cops which contain both genders, not just men, which is where these type of conversations always seem to get pulled.

It isn’t just about aggression, it’s how people are treated, talked to, mutual respect. This isn’t one gender against another. Until both genders work together to try to resolve the issue it’s going to remain a constant mud slinging contest, which gets us no where.

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

If it's in you it's in you. It's not in me. That's got nothing to do with my schools, upbringing or social circles..

It's just not in me..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No it won’t work, not enough staff for a start.

Police yourselves and your friends, tell your female & male friends what they are saying or doing isn’t right, have that conversation why.

Why should it be left up to the males in their lives, the mums should be doing the talking to. Both can explain what is wrong and right, how to interact with people in all aspects of life.

I’m confused on that last sentence, the OP is about undercover cops which contain both genders, not just men, which is where these type of conversations always seem to get pulled.

Unfortunately women will have to give up and work together and HELP to come to a solution when they were NOT at the begginning part of the problem. but I'm up for that if that means to stop the nonsense.

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By *emorefridaCouple
over a year ago

La la land

"Time to stop these threads maybe.. they are becoming very decisive.

It won't work..

True but maybe safe areas in towns and city's, could work where you walk to if you feel you're being followed or wait for a taxi without fear.

. "

See this is a positive thing of having these kinds of conversations

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"One aspect that needs addressing, is that at present there is such a low chance of a case making it to court, then a really low chance of a guilty verdict.

It's basically a license to commit these crimes. Talk of increasing sentences is pointless, if no one is being convicted.

There was a piece in the paper which said the number of cases which actually get to court is a fraction of what is reported.

Law requires evidence, which is mostly their word against each other in these cases, so how do you change that to protect both parties ? "

There's often little interest in gathering the evidence though. I've previously worked with victims of sexual assault through my work and often it's been me as a medical professional encouraging them to document their injuries because the police haven't done so. Even minor bruising on their wrists for example can be so vital in painting a picture and once it's gone that evidence is lost forever.

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

Has anyone thought of the practicalities of having undercover cops in nigh clubs. How many would you need per club. How would they actually police it?. If there is a group of lads harassing could 1 or two officers intervene? Would they have snatch squads? It would have bar room brawl written all over it..

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/rapes-london-rise-only-one-in-20-cases-police-charge-b924159.html%3famp

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

"No it won’t work, not enough staff for a start.

Police yourselves and your friends, tell your female & male friends what they are saying or doing isn’t right, have that conversation why.

Why should it be left up to the males in their lives, the mums should be doing the talking to. Both can explain what is wrong and right, how to interact with people in all aspects of life.

I’m confused on that last sentence, the OP is about undercover cops which contain both genders, not just men, which is where these type of conversations always seem to get pulled.

Of course they do and should he already, even if it’s within their family or friends circle, it’s a start.

This isn’t something to be resolved by one gender, all genders need to listen and adapt their behaviour.

Yes for some that might mean finding the strength to actually say “hey stop, that’s not right” but if you don’t speak up and tell them how do they know their behaviour is upsetting someone

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

"https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/rapes-london-rise-only-one-in-20-cases-police-charge-b924159.html%3famp"

Thanks Lionel

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"Has anyone thought of the practicalities of having undercover cops in nigh clubs. How many would you need per club. How would they actually police it?. If there is a group of lads harassing could 1 or two officers intervene? Would they have snatch squads? It would have bar room brawl written all over it..

That's what's being discussed Thomas

I dont think anyone has said it's a good idea yet.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So speak up men and women. But more men

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

I think it's a sop to weakly try to placate the public about 2 things - the danger to women and the tarnished image of the police, particularly after the weekend's aggressive force used on women. It seems a very pathetic attempt. Priti awful Patel guided the police tactics, so it's a deflection attempt from reality. It's fine for the police to intelligently allocate resources to work against this toxic problem but the political core is a driver of the problem. Wolf in sheeps' clothing.

Expect not very much change. Police still at dogging and cruising sites. And a huge volume of abuse at the hands of people who are known to the victims

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"No it won’t work, not enough staff for a start.

Police yourselves and your friends, tell your female & male friends what they are saying or doing isn’t right, have that conversation why.

I'll be honest..my parents never sat me down and said..now when you go to a school disco..dont be a weirdo and go and harass some poor girl who isnt interested.

I just took it as red.

Maybe its just something in you...where you think its ok?"

Maybe some of it but there's also a lot of toxic messages in our culture as a whole when it comes to dating. Women play hard to get, men have to pursue them to get the girl, etc, etc.

Women are socialised to be passive and "let men do the chasing". Of course the majority are socially aware enough to know where the line is between this and harassment but not everyone does. Hell I've had men I consider to be decent and friends who've I've had to have words with because of them making me uncomfortable with intense messaging and flirty comments and even my lack of response doesn't deter them.

Personally I've found in my own life I have had the most success with men I approached myself. One of my partners I initiated contact with on a dating site, though he asked for the first date. The majority of my male fab meets I've messaged first. It's still hard to shake the feeling though that as a woman I seem desperate for approaching men and that maybe they're just too polite to turn me down. I know deep down it's a load of rubbish but that's how much this shit is engrained in us all.

That whole culture needs to change for things to really get better but there's a lot of resistance from all sides. It's moving in the right direction though I feel. The existence of bumble for example is a good start.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"No it won’t work, not enough staff for a start.

Police yourselves and your friends, tell your female & male friends what they are saying or doing isn’t right, have that conversation why.

Why should it be left up to the males in their lives, the mums should be doing the talking to. Both can explain what is wrong and right, how to interact with people in all aspects of life.

Love this

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not enough police to actually do this

It was a member of the police who was charged re’ the recent news

How many creepy fuckers will pretend to be “undercover police” and offer women assistance to either hit on them, make advances, or even worse...

The cynic in me also think it’s a nice way for the government to SEEM to be doing something. They could lie and say they have 1 officer in every bar. How would you know because to prove it they would be blowing their cover. Lovey idea which they can chat shit about, not even do, but talk about how successful it is

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"Not enough police to actually do this

It was a member of the police who was charged re’ the recent news

How many creepy fuckers will pretend to be “undercover police” and offer women assistance to either hit on them, make advances, or even worse...

Agreed

It smacks of being seen to.be doing something.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This has just been discussed on Radio4. Apparently its been successful overseas. The idea is that the undercover person does not reveal that though they tell uniformed officers. They don't tell a woman that they are undercover or approach her. So anyone saying they are undercover would be revealing themselves as untrustworthy. Women however need to know this so it's about getting that information out there. I'm not sure it would work but appears to work overseas.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"They'd probably try to pick the girls up themselves. Get them pregnant and disappear and then be given immunity.. All happened before with undercover arseholes. "

You actually said that. We can all see it....

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"So quite a few women would like under cover police in bars etc, wasn't it a police man responsible? "

One bad apple n all that......

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"So quite a few women would like under cover police in bars etc, wasn't it a police man responsible?

One bad apple n all that...... "

And the one who made a joke about the murder?

And the ones who ignored the woman ,who said he had been harassed?

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"If it's in you it's in you. It's not in me. That's got nothing to do with my schools, upbringing or social circles..

It's just not in me.. "

I guess there are many people behind bars who have no idea why they did what they did on that one occasion when they lost control and acted out of character.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"So quite a few women would like under cover police in bars etc, wasn't it a police man responsible?

One bad apple n all that......

And the one who made a joke about the murder?

And the ones who ignored the woman ,who said he had been harassed?"

The ones who took selfies with the body

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"So quite a few women would like under cover police in bars etc, wasn't it a police man responsible?

One bad apple n all that......

And the one who made a joke about the murder?

And the ones who ignored the woman ,who said he had been harassed?"

That really is a spurious argument and you are still counting in ones.

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By *allySlinkyWoman
over a year ago

Leeds

The ones who put photographs on WhatsApp of the bodies of two sisters stabbed to death in a park last year ?

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"So quite a few women would like under cover police in bars etc, wasn't it a police man responsible?

One bad apple n all that......

And the one who made a joke about the murder?

And the ones who ignored the woman ,who said he had been harassed?

The ones who took selfies with the body

Do you mean the sisters that were killed circa last year or Sarah ?

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By *uliaChrisCouple
over a year ago

westerham

It's a laughable proposal, how anyone can take it seriously when there has been such a reduction in police numbers is baffling.

Not worth even debating until police on the beat numbers have gone up hugely.

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By *allySlinkyWoman
over a year ago

Leeds

How would it help the 70 % of women who are murdered in their own homes, or the 93 % of women murdered by someone they know ?

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"So quite a few women would like under cover police in bars etc, wasn't it a police man responsible?

One bad apple n all that......

And the one who made a joke about the murder?

And the ones who ignored the woman ,who said he had been harassed?

The ones who took selfies with the body

I'm not sure if its the same one..but what was been.suspended for making inappropriate comments..unless it's the same one?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why do they need to be undercover and what exactly are they meant to do? Are they going to suddenly break their cover to arrest a man that looks like he’s talking to someone that’s not interested?

It sounds nonsensical. Surely it would be better to have police in uniform to deter bad behaviour. Or better yet, employ good, level headed, security that women are able to report things to (Without it escalating unnecessarily).

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

And the 99% who work tireslessly to earn a living for their families, who dedicate themselves to the communities they serve with sniping from both members of the public and some politicians.. and to those stalwarts who think ACAB then why not join up, change from within, see it for yourselves..

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

"So speak up men and women. But more men

It can be equal, call out your own friends and family when they say something they think is innocent, show them the other side. It’s something my friends have been doing to each other for years.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9364875/amp/PC-guarding-Sarah-Everard-murder-scene-sent-inappropriate-WhatsApp-messages-colleagues.html

It was this or the sun

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By *atnip make me purrWoman
over a year ago

Reading

Almost all men have a son, a nephew, neighbour who they can help educate. If you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem. So stop feeling defensive and try to figure out how you can help. You are not the enemy but are you an ally?

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"So quite a few women would like under cover police in bars etc, wasn't it a police man responsible?

One bad apple n all that......

And the one who made a joke about the murder?

And the ones who ignored the woman ,who said he had been harassed?

That really is a spurious argument and you are still counting in ones. "

Why spurious?

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

I see it like this:- I go into a bar for a drink. I look around and my friends haven't arrived yet. There are lots of people behaving beautifully and smiling and laughing.

There is one big burly man that I don't like the look of. Scares me shitless. keeps staring. I decide to sit with the under cover cops ..... ( you are there before me aren't you ? )

I stand in the middle of the pub n shout ...... OI .. WHICH ONE OF YOU LOT IS UNDERCOVER ????

Guess who stands up.

Prize for the correct answer.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"So quite a few women would like under cover police in bars etc, wasn't it a police man responsible?

One bad apple n all that......

And the one who made a joke about the murder?

And the ones who ignored the woman ,who said he had been harassed?

The ones who took selfies with the body

Do you mean the sisters that were killed circa last year or Sarah ?"

You're right, that was two sisters. I mixed it up as it was mentioned in an article about the officer who guarded the site Sarah's body was found making jokes and sharing memes about groups of police officers abducting a woman in a whatsapp group after he went home from the site.

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

"I see it like this:- I go into a bar for a drink. I look around and my friends haven't arrived yet. There are lots of people behaving beautifully and smiling and laughing.

There is one big burly man that I don't like the look of. Scares me shitless. keeps staring. I decide to sit with the under cover cops ..... ( you are there before me aren't you ? )

I stand in the middle of the pub n shout ...... OI .. WHICH ONE OF YOU LOT IS UNDERCOVER ????

Guess who stands up.

Prize for the correct answer. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do we have these sayings that you can tell to bar staff or any staff thats around or something??

Kinda like a codeword for help me

Kept seeing things on social media but dunno if its true

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Almost all men have a son, a nephew, neighbour who they can help educate. If you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem. So stop feeling defensive and try to figure out how you can help. You are not the enemy but are you an ally?"

All women also have the same relatives. It’s not an educational piece. It’s ingrained into a persons psyche. Some people are bad, and no matter how much you tell them, they won’t change. A murderer isn’t that way just because someone forgot to tell them “don’t murder people”.

It’s not about enemies vs ally’s. That’s very divisive. Yes we should all work together to make the world a safer place, but people need to be a bit more logical and empathetic rather than creating further divides.

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By *ad NannaWoman
over a year ago

East London

Would this be in every pub in the UK? Where are these police coming from?

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

"Would this be in every pub in the UK? Where are these police coming from? "

Don't sorry..

Diane Abbot has done the maths..

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By *eavenscentitCouple
over a year ago

barnstaple

"They'd have to put them everywhere.

These things don't just happen at bars and clubs.

Harsher sentencing for barrassment and assaults. Better education. That would be a start. Hold men accountable.

Not all men!! Some men never have and never will raise a hand to a women!! Don't tarr all men with the same brush."

Maybe not all men but, we are harassed on a regular basis, attacked and our lives taken. Why does the debate always have to come back to men !

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By *konCouple
over a year ago

cardiff

I’m sick of every man being tarred all of a sudden as an abuser of women ! Or is it all other men besides your father , husband , boyfriend, fiancée , uncle , grandfather , brother or friends ?

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By *ad NannaWoman
over a year ago

East London

Aren't there already security in pubs and bars to help out when people feel threatened?

I know one came to my aid when I needed him, and I only gave him an eye gesture. He came over immediately and escorted the person out.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"Why do they need to be undercover and what exactly are they meant to do? Are they going to suddenly break their cover to arrest a man that looks like he’s talking to someone that’s not interested?

I was once touched up by a security guard at a bar and when I looked to see who it was he smirked at me and walked off. I approached him and calmly asked him if he touched me, he told some bullshit story about pushing chairs under tables a few metres away from me. It wasn't even possible for him to accidentally brush past me or anything from that distance and the chairs were even on the side of the table I was stood on. He went and got his boss who just kicked us out. I didn't even raise my voice. I was just upset that he felt he could get away with something like that. The bar was pretty empty too so it was so brazen.

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By *ad NannaWoman
over a year ago

East London

"I’m sick of every man being tarred all of a sudden as an abuser of women ! Or is it all other men besides your father , husband , boyfriend, fiancée , uncle , grandfather , brother or friends ? "

They aren't. It's the ones who are guilty only that people are talking about.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Aren't there already security in pubs and bars to help out when people feel threatened?

I know one came to my aid when I needed him, and I only gave him an eye gesture. He came over immediately and escorted the person out. "

Not every single place but majority have security.. Even Mcdonalds has it...

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By *eavenscentitCouple
over a year ago

barnstaple

"I’m sick of every man being tarred all of a sudden as an abuser of women ! Or is it all other men besides your father , husband , boyfriend, fiancée , uncle , grandfather , brother or friends ? "

I'm sick of women and girls being harassed and attacked. I don't know who is a danger so, until then I will presume the man walking behind or towards me is a risk to me particularly in the dark.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9364875/amp/PC-guarding-Sarah-Everard-murder-scene-sent-inappropriate-WhatsApp-messages-colleagues.html

It was this or the sun"

I read it on Kent online. I'd be burned at the stake for reading the sun here

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By *konCouple
over a year ago

cardiff

"I’m sick of every man being tarred all of a sudden as an abuser of women ! Or is it all other men besides your father , husband , boyfriend, fiancée , uncle , grandfather , brother or friends ?

They aren't. It's the ones who are guilty only that people are talking about. "

It doesn’t seem that way ! You’re a darn sight safer with the men I know around you than without them . I’m not denying for one second that I’ve not been subjected to crass comments, etc., but to jump on the latest band waggon of tarring all men with the same brush is just unethical

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By *eerobCouple
over a year ago

solihull

[Removed by poster at 16/03/21 11:45:09]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

George Orwell must be somewhere laughing his ass off!

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"I’m sick of every man being tarred all of a sudden as an abuser of women ! Or is it all other men besides your father , husband , boyfriend, fiancée , uncle , grandfather , brother or friends ?

They aren't. It's the ones who are guilty only that people are talking about.

No one is doing that

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I’m sorry that happened to you. Yes some security can be awful, I suppose that’s why I tried to say employ level-headed security. Because at the moment I don’t think most people have trust in bouncers. I’ve also had bad experiences with them in the past x

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By *eerobCouple
over a year ago

solihull

Firstly the police are stretched past being able to cope with the crime they are faced with.

Secondly its not in the clubs...but on a quiet street they need protection...is every lady going to have there own protection officer. Probably not

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By *ad NannaWoman
over a year ago

East London

"I’m sick of every man being tarred all of a sudden as an abuser of women ! Or is it all other men besides your father , husband , boyfriend, fiancée , uncle , grandfather , brother or friends ?

They aren't. It's the ones who are guilty only that people are talking about.

If I read a comment that says men, I know it's not all men. In fact, I'll say it's a minority who are threatening.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

Yeah I got you

. Its just sad that so often they don't. There were some great bouncers at the students union bar when I was at uni. Very friendly and they looked out for you. I saw them drag out a few d*unk guys for inappropriate behaviour and help a few too d*unk women get home okay.

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By *uit steveMan
over a year ago

Wolves / Travelling

The irony of this after it was a police officer who murdered Sarah!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yeah I got you

Yeah I know what you mean. Being a bouncer seems less like a profession these days, and more like a side job that roid heads do for cash in hand. I think that could be part of the problem.

In Leeds there’s a bar that always has male and female bouncers, and there’s no way I’d mess with them. The women seem to have a way about them that lets you know they’re in charge in a way that’s different to male bouncers. They have less ego. It’s made me think that maybe all bars need to start having mixed gendered security.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"No it won’t work, not enough staff for a start.

Police yourselves and your friends, tell your female & male friends what they are saying or doing isn’t right, have that conversation why.

I'll be honest..my parents never sat me down and said..now when you go to a school disco..dont be a weirdo and go and harass some poor girl who isnt interested.

I just took it as red.

Maybe its just something in you...where you think its ok?

Maybe some of it but there's also a lot of toxic messages in our culture as a whole when it comes to dating. Women play hard to get, men have to pursue them to get the girl, etc, etc.

I've been trying to think off an appropriate response.

I agree its definitely a culture thing.

Personally speaking, being totally honest,its really hard not to think..well I wouldnt do that.

That isnt an attempt to say not all men are like that but to try and understand..why someone would do that.

If I messeged a girl and she didnt respond..for sheer embarrassment, I wouldnt messege again.

Ditto hassling a girl who isnt interested.

Personally speaking, I don't understand why,anyone would do that..

That probally hasn't come out,so I apologise in advance.

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

When I worked the doors we made sure than the women were looked after, safely put in taxis, and checked on them if lads were trying to get them into cars when they were incapable. All door staff should be licenced now and the days of the brutal bouncer are hopefully in the past but we all met them. I am sure there are some in the cities who control the drug supply in their clubs but the last thing their bosses want is attracting police attention by beating their customers.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

Yeah I got you

Yeah I know what you mean. Being a bouncer seems less like a profession these days, and more like a side job that roid heads do for cash in hand. I think that could be part of the problem.

The lead door person at the bar I worked at was a woman. She was awesome but terrifying. It was a bar mostly of locals and a few times I saw these big, burly blokes getting a bollocking from her and grovelling for forgiveness so they didn't get barred. It's not a job I could do though.

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By *Just meMan
over a year ago

York

"To combat female harassment and protect women from predatory males.

Can it work?

Apparently there's already a pilot of this, in Thames Valley police area."

Have they enough coppers...???

Well it now seems that women may not be let out without an escort... I dont think any woman wants this.

Strangely I said to Mrs could I go out with an Escort too... I got slapped... lol

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By *Just meMan
over a year ago

York

"Too many officers would be needed so I don't think it would work. "

Love to see them in the swingers clubs or naturist clubs... lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Lots of bars and clubs in Southampton have employed security and bouncers for years, it doesn't stop the attacks on people in the park though, some taxis home were not safe, some bus rides home were not safe...

Predators can be anyone and anywhere"

This is very true.

There have been calls for years for better lighting and CCTV in the parks and it hasn't been done, anyone that knows the layout of Southampton City centre and the parks could see how this will definitely help.

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

Do they prosecute Doggers and Cottagers these days?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"One aspect that needs addressing, is that at present there is such a low chance of a case making it to court, then a really low chance of a guilty verdict.

It's basically a license to commit these crimes. Talk of increasing sentences is pointless, if no one is being convicted. "

You hit the nail on the head there is no deterrent and often women feel that they won't be believed or taken seriously.

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By *Just meMan
over a year ago

York

"They'd have to put them everywhere.

These things don't just happen at bars and clubs.

Harsher sentencing for barrassment and assaults. Better education. That would be a start. Hold men accountable.

Not all men!! Some men never have and never will raise a hand to a women!! Don't tarr all men with the same brush."

Agreed and I wont...

I remember losing it with my Mrs when we were decorating... I walked away... She kicked the wall then I heard Ouch and a plea to take her to hospital as she had broke her toe ... lol (Not my fault... honest!). Even her mum and dad took the piss out of her as well. Still remind her of that one.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do they prosecute Doggers and Cottagers these days?"

Whats that got to do with the subject being discussed?

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By *ucka39Man
over a year ago

Newcastle

All is needed is more good Samaritans who would intervene as most don't get involved and walk by costs nothing to ask if things are ok to someone

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"No it won’t work, not enough staff for a start.

Police yourselves and your friends, tell your female & male friends what they are saying or doing isn’t right, have that conversation why.

I'll be honest..my parents never sat me down and said..now when you go to a school disco..dont be a weirdo and go and harass some poor girl who isnt interested.

I just took it as red.

Maybe its just something in you...where you think its ok?

Maybe some of it but there's also a lot of toxic messages in our culture as a whole when it comes to dating. Women play hard to get, men have to pursue them to get the girl, etc, etc.

I've been trying to think off an appropriate response.

I agree its definitely a culture thing.

Personally speaking, being totally honest,its really hard not to think..well I wouldnt do that.

That isnt an attempt to say not all men are like that but to try and understand..why someone would do that.

If I messeged a girl and she didnt respond..for sheer embarrassment, I wouldnt messege again.

Ditto hassling a girl who isnt interested.

Personally speaking, I don't understand why,anyone would do that..

That probally hasn't come out,so I apologise in advance."

I'm really not saying you must do

. Like I said, most are socially aware enough to know where the line is. Sadly though not all do and some just don't care. Obviously the ones who don't care there is little hope for but when people talk about education, I believe they mean the ones I'm talking about who aren't bad people but repeatedly cross the line without there being malice to it. I have a old college friend who has even posted online apologies after being told his behaviour makes people uncomfortable. There's a lot of "unspoken rules" when it comes to dating and some really do find it hard to navigate being the persuer but often as a man, if you don't adopt that role you're residing yourself to a life of being single which is sad.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"All is needed is more good Samaritans who would intervene as most don't get involved and walk by costs nothing to ask if things are ok to someone"

Or maybe just for less men to behave like #####?

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"No it won’t work, not enough staff for a start.

Police yourselves and your friends, tell your female & male friends what they are saying or doing isn’t right, have that conversation why.

I'll be honest..my parents never sat me down and said..now when you go to a school disco..dont be a weirdo and go and harass some poor girl who isnt interested.

I just took it as red.

Maybe its just something in you...where you think its ok?

Maybe some of it but there's also a lot of toxic messages in our culture as a whole when it comes to dating. Women play hard to get, men have to pursue them to get the girl, etc, etc.

I've been trying to think off an appropriate response.

I agree its definitely a culture thing.

Personally speaking, being totally honest,its really hard not to think..well I wouldnt do that.

That isnt an attempt to say not all men are like that but to try and understand..why someone would do that.

If I messeged a girl and she didnt respond..for sheer embarrassment, I wouldnt messege again.

Ditto hassling a girl who isnt interested.

Personally speaking, I don't understand why,anyone would do that..

That probally hasn't come out,so I apologise in advance.

I'm really not saying you must do

I think what I was trying to say..is to try and make sense of how people behave in such a way..and get to an understanding of it.

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By *Just meMan
over a year ago

York

I would generally agree with not tarnishing everyone... Think about this... who generally asks a person out... could that be construed as harrassment? This all needs to be balanced and we need to look at this like adults. People complain but dont say what they actually want done... I suggest people making realistic and achievable and fair recommendations.

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

"All is needed is more good Samaritans who would intervene as most don't get involved and walk by costs nothing to ask if things are ok to someone"

You may be right but all too often seen the Good Samaritan become the victim. I have seen couples arguing in the street and then both turn on anyone who intervenes. I have seen ambulance staff attacked for doing their job. We have seen people prosecuted for defending themselves. We have so many young people either carrying knives or having ready access to them. They hide weapons discreetly around the town centres so if they are stopped they are not carrying a weapon. Good Samaritan is one thing but I understand why people don't

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

I think its interesting..all the responses are about what other people can do..and not about what the actual problem can do.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"When I worked the doors we made sure than the women were looked after, safely put in taxis, and checked on them if lads were trying to get them into cars when they were incapable. All door staff should be licenced now and the days of the brutal bouncer are hopefully in the past but we all met them. I am sure there are some in the cities who control the drug supply in their clubs but the last thing their bosses want is attracting police attention by beating their customers."

I'll never forget one time I was 18 and new to nights out and saw a fight break out in the street. A doorman came running over and I thought "great, he's going to break it up" but he just joined in. I think he knew them. It kind of disturbed me though. I think most doormen are decent and there to do their job but I certainly know some guys from school who went into it because they got picked on in school and it was their chance to "have the power" or something.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"No it won’t work, not enough staff for a start.

Police yourselves and your friends, tell your female & male friends what they are saying or doing isn’t right, have that conversation why.

I'll be honest..my parents never sat me down and said..now when you go to a school disco..dont be a weirdo and go and harass some poor girl who isnt interested.

I just took it as red.

Maybe its just something in you...where you think its ok?

Maybe some of it but there's also a lot of toxic messages in our culture as a whole when it comes to dating. Women play hard to get, men have to pursue them to get the girl, etc, etc.

I've been trying to think off an appropriate response.

I agree its definitely a culture thing.

Personally speaking, being totally honest,its really hard not to think..well I wouldnt do that.

That isnt an attempt to say not all men are like that but to try and understand..why someone would do that.

If I messeged a girl and she didnt respond..for sheer embarrassment, I wouldnt messege again.

Ditto hassling a girl who isnt interested.

Personally speaking, I don't understand why,anyone would do that..

That probally hasn't come out,so I apologise in advance.

I'm really not saying you must do

I think what I was trying to say..is to try and make sense of how people behave in such a way..and get to an understanding of it."

Understanding is certainly useful. It's hard to deal with a problem we don't understand

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

"I think its interesting..all the responses are about what other people can do..and not about what the actual problem can do."

One barrier to safety is so delicate though. I take sensible precautions when I am out. I know that however big and strong you are that it is a huge disadvantage to be outnumbered. I take longer safer routes, I use taxis, I avoid certain pubs ( when they were open) I know how to behave in bars and clubs, I have escape routes planned in the event I need them and exit strategies..

The trouble is that sometimes when this advice is given to the more vulnerable it can be dispelled as victim shaming..

Until this society becomes a better place then learn to survive ...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think its interesting..all the responses are about what other people can do..and not about what the actual problem can do.

The trouble is that sometimes when this advice is given to the more vulnerable it can be dispelled as victim shaming..

Until this society becomes a better place then learn to survive ...

The problem is the advice to women is often to not go out alone, dont wear certain clothing, dont wear headphones and dont drink.

The advice very much seems don't make yourself a target when actually just going about your everyday life makes women a target.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yeah. In December 2019 I was punched in the face by a bouncer while I was sipping a drink. Needless to say the shock caused me to bite down and the glass smashed and cut my lips open. He then turfed me out.

To this day I still have no idea why it happened - I wasn’t even aware he was there until the punch happened. The police weren’t interested. Bar management wouldn’t investigate or give me the cctv.

I know I’ve gone a bit off topic now lol - but it ties back into making places safer by getting proper trustworthy security in place. Leading by example. If you have a good door team then customers will be better protected and assholes won’t be let in, and people will feel comfortable reporting things. Which in turn will make it better for women.

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By *Just meMan
over a year ago

York

Sounds to me like discrimination...

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

Does anyone know if the police go undercover at dogging sites and sex clubs ?

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By *it ov quality!Man
over a year ago

west yorkshire

"So quite a few women would like under cover police in bars etc, wasn't it a police man responsible?

One bad apple n all that...... "
one bad apple has spread to all males? I know my 2 boys know how to treat women, my daughter is the eldest. .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If areas where people gather are policed then criminals or those that wish to harm others will move on to stalking, breaking and entering and attacking people in their homes.

You have to understand the nature of the beast. It will find new ways to hunt prey.

Underground trains between station etc animals calculate before they strike and the police cannot be everywhere.

One minute everyone wants police protection next they are cunts for enforcement of lockdown.

Your lucky this isn't Russia or Serbia as many would have been beaten, locked up not given fines.

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By *asques and boxersCouple
over a year ago

Ashford and dept16

It is very difficult to find a way to protect ladies against such people! Without a behavioral change across society. At some point I seriously doubt everyone on this site and simular have not oogled someone, god forbid they may have even sent an unsolicited message not quite going to lead to such a thing as abuse.

There is however a real issue in the lack of successful prosecution of the degenerate abusers. Until people are held to account this will persist. Education isn't restricted to children, but it is rarely successful via vilification. A problem across society for sure thank you for raising the points made.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"If areas where people gather are policed then criminals or those that wish to harm others will move on to stalking, breaking and entering and attacking people in their homes.

You have to understand the nature of the beast. It will find new ways to hunt prey.

Underground trains between station etc animals calculate before they strike and the police cannot be everywhere.

One minute everyone wants police protection next they are cunts for enforcement of lockdown.

Your lucky this isn't Russia or Serbia as many would have been beaten, locked up not given fines."

The place I have been harassed the most is public transport. Usually busses or trains. I think it's because you're kind of trapped with them. Getting off could mean they follow you and bus stops and train stations feel even more dangerous than just staying where you are.

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

I do wonder if all of this debate is making some women hyper vigilant tho.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I do wonder if all of this debate is making some women hyper vigilant tho. "

And you don't think most of us have been for years?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If areas where people gather are policed then criminals or those that wish to harm others will move on to stalking, breaking and entering and attacking people in their homes.

You have to understand the nature of the beast. It will find new ways to hunt prey.

Underground trains between station etc animals calculate before they strike and the police cannot be everywhere.

One minute everyone wants police protection next they are cunts for enforcement of lockdown.

Your lucky this isn't Russia or Serbia as many would have been beaten, locked up not given fines.

Definitely this.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The problem you will have is when a man or women innocently eyes up a person of the opposite sex. If that person wants to make an issue out of it he/she reports it to club/bar nominated office and that innocent look has just landed you in front of a magistrate, the press display your picture and now your a fucking beast. Your employer cancels your contract because you are seen to be dangerous.

Friends you had disappear and then that person's body is found hanging over what was a innocent look.

Be very careful what you wish for.

East Germany had the stasi. You don't want that

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"I do wonder if all of this debate is making some women hyper vigilant tho.

And you don't think most of us have been for years?"

Yep, we already are.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"The problem you will have is when a man or women innocently eyes up a person of the opposite sex. If that person wants to make an issue out of it he/she reports it to club/bar nominated office and that innocent look has just landed you in front of a magistrate, the press display your picture and now your a fucking beast. Your employer cancels your contract because you are seen to be dangerous.

Friends you had disappear and then that person's body is found hanging over what was a innocent look.

Be very careful what you wish for.

East Germany had the stasi. You don't want that"

Most men who actually force women to have sex against their will don't get convicted for it so is this really likely to happen?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"This has just been discussed on Radio4. Apparently its been successful overseas. The idea is that the undercover person does not reveal that though they tell uniformed officers. They don't tell a woman that they are undercover or approach her. So anyone saying they are undercover would be revealing themselves as untrustworthy. Women however need to know this so it's about getting that information out there. I'm not sure it would work but appears to work overseas. "

Pretty much all clubs and many pubs have security staff. they could do this themselves. If they become aware of anyone being harrassed, the perpetrators are ejected/barred.

This doesn't solve the street problem though, which has to be the police responsibility. More visible policing here is the only answer, like it or not.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Friends you had disappear and then that person's body is found hanging over what was a innocent look.

Be very careful what you wish for.

East Germany had the stasi. You don't want that"

It would have to be more than a look. An action or course of actions, but there will always be evidential problems and thresholds.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"All is needed is more good Samaritans who would intervene as most don't get involved and walk by costs nothing to ask if things are ok to someone"

It's not so long ago that the public were told NOT to intervene but to get the police.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"So quite a few women would like under cover police in bars etc, wasn't it a police man responsible?

One bad apple n all that...... one bad apple has spread to all males? I know my 2 boys know how to treat women, my daughter is the eldest. ."

The saying goes........ One bad apple don't spoil the whole bunch.

It's the opposite of what you have taken it to mean.

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

"So quite a few women would like under cover police in bars etc, wasn't it a police man responsible?

One bad apple n all that...... one bad apple has spread to all males? I know my 2 boys know how to treat women, my daughter is the eldest. .

The saying goes........ One bad apple don't spoil the whole bunch.

It's the opposite of what you have taken it to mean.

I think you are referring to bananas GC

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By *oxy lady40Woman
over a year ago

bridgwater

Police man can be just as bad , so personally I wouldn’t feel any safer having them there

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

"Police man can be just as bad , so personally I wouldn’t feel any safer having them there "

More police women maybe?

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"So quite a few women would like under cover police in bars etc, wasn't it a police man responsible?

One bad apple n all that...... one bad apple has spread to all males? I know my 2 boys know how to treat women, my daughter is the eldest. .

The saying goes........ One bad apple don't spoil the whole bunch.

It's the opposite of what you have taken it to mean.

I think you are referring to bananas GC

Tom, I Know my Granny's from my Fyfees.

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By *oxy lady40Woman
over a year ago

bridgwater

"Police man can be just as bad , so personally I wouldn’t feel any safer having them there

More police women maybe?"
there quite a few police on here, so they probably go to the clubs anyway

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

I was at a strip show that got raided by the police once

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Time to stop these threads maybe.. they are becoming very decisive.

It won't work..

True but maybe safe areas in towns and city's, could work where you walk to if you feel you're being followed or wait for a taxi without fear. "

This suggestion was ridiculed by some in another similar post because it implied women needed to act, respond differently or change to help and that apparently isn't what should be done as it's not their responsibility. It seemed to ignore that its something we all, male and female need to act upon to reduce, minimise and impose other preventstive measures.

These aren't just crimes against women, they are crimes against fathers, mother's, brothers and sisters too.

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

Safer for all, regardless of race, religion, colour or sex

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"Time to stop these threads maybe.. they are becoming very decisive.

It won't work..

True but maybe safe areas in towns and city's, could work where you walk to if you feel you're being followed or wait for a taxi without fear.

These aren't just crimes against women, they are crimes against fathers, mother's, brothers and sisters too."

I think the reason a lot of women get frustrated though is that whenever we talk about being harrassed or assaulted, the focus always seems to be on what women should do to prevent it happening when the reality is that most of us are already taking loads of precautions and it still happens. It's just not realistic for me to never get public transport alone or never walk through town alone. Sometimes I need to get to work or go to the bank/opticians/dentists.

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