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"Sounds like some of you ladies are afraid of your own shadow....learn self defense or a martial art ......" Wow! Nice! I spent years learning both! I'm glad you've never been so terrified you cannot move. Or been on the receiving end of an attack from a bloke much bigger and stronger and a trained fighter themselves? How about we teach our men and boys to respect women instead of insisting women need to learn to be tougher?! I kickboxed for 6 years, took self defence classed for over a year after the first time I was r*ped at 13 years of age walking home in the daylight in a residential area. I was still r*ped, assaulted and harassed by multiple men after that. Is that my fault? | |||
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"It's not for women to learn how to defend themselves. It's for men to learn how to behave properly around women. "Thank You! Louder for the people at the back!  | |||
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"if anyone wants to continue the discussion in response to the last thing i read - please tell me i didn’t just read women are attracted to bad boys insinuating that women find someone who engages in sexual assault attractive "Nope. Once again I didnt say. I agree with your point about toxic lad culture. But there is also the thing about bad boys. I used to work with a lad who would sleep around and generally treat women like shit.Everyone knew what he was like.. yet every work night out he would kop off. Obviously most women realises what he was like. But obviously not all. | |||
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"It's not for women to learn how to defend themselves. It's for men to learn how to behave properly around women.
Thank You!
Louder for the people at the back! "Hear hear, respect n dignity seem to be very lacking in mens behaviour to women, are we in 2021 or 1821, I forget | |||
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"if anyone wants to continue the discussion in response to the last thing i read - please tell me i didn’t just read women are attracted to bad boys insinuating that women find someone who engages in sexual assault attractive
Nope.
Once again I didnt say.
I agree with your point about toxic lad culture.
But there is also the thing about bad boys.
I used to work with a lad who would sleep around and generally treat women like shit.Everyone knew what he was like.. yet every work night out he would kop off.
Obviously most women realises what he was like.
But obviously not all.
"being non monogamous or not committing to someone you sleep with is not in any way connected to sexual harassment though - its an entirely random tangent to go off at talking about women’s attraction to a bad boy during a discussion of sexual assault | |||
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"if anyone wants to continue the discussion in response to the last thing i read - please tell me i didn’t just read women are attracted to bad boys insinuating that women find someone who engages in sexual assault attractive
Nope.
Once again I didnt say.
I agree with your point about toxic lad culture.
But there is also the thing about bad boys.
I used to work with a lad who would sleep around and generally treat women like shit.Everyone knew what he was like.. yet every work night out he would kop off.
Obviously most women realises what he was like.
But obviously not all.
"But how does that correlate to him sexually harassing women? | |||
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"I wish people would treat each other with respect that includes every one." | |||
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"if anyone wants to continue the discussion in response to the last thing i read - please tell me i didn’t just read women are attracted to bad boys insinuating that women find someone who engages in sexual assault attractive
Nope.
Once again I didnt say.
I agree with your point about toxic lad culture.
But there is also the thing about bad boys.
I used to work with a lad who would sleep around and generally treat women like shit.Everyone knew what he was like.. yet every work night out he would kop off.
Obviously most women realises what he was like.
But obviously not all.
being non monogamous or not committing to someone you sleep with is not in any way connected to sexual harassment though - its an entirely random tangent to go off at talking about women’s attraction to a bad boy during a discussion of sexual assault "Yeah true. I appreciate sexual harassment is completely different Maybe it was a wrong comparison to make | |||
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"if anyone wants to continue the discussion in response to the last thing i read - please tell me i didn’t just read women are attracted to bad boys insinuating that women find someone who engages in sexual assault attractive
Nope.
Once again I didnt say.
I agree with your point about toxic lad culture.
But there is also the thing about bad boys.
I used to work with a lad who would sleep around and generally treat women like shit.Everyone knew what he was like.. yet every work night out he would kop off.
Obviously most women realises what he was like.
But obviously not all.
being non monogamous or not committing to someone you sleep with is not in any way connected to sexual harassment though - its an entirely random tangent to go off at talking about women’s attraction to a bad boy during a discussion of sexual assault "i know you might not realise it and might not mean it - but this is part of the problem - its like the misdirection done by magicians - oh look at this over here and lets take your focus off what is really going on , oh girls like a bad boy so lets talk about that rather than the fact that 97% of you identified as being sexually harassed | |||
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"if anyone wants to continue the discussion in response to the last thing i read - please tell me i didn’t just read women are attracted to bad boys insinuating that women find someone who engages in sexual assault attractive
Nope.
Once again I didnt say.
I agree with your point about toxic lad culture.
But there is also the thing about bad boys.
I used to work with a lad who would sleep around and generally treat women like shit.Everyone knew what he was like.. yet every work night out he would kop off.
Obviously most women realises what he was like.
But obviously not all.
But how does that correlate to him sexually harassing women? "I think I made the comparison because that whole Lad culture was mentioned but no,its not a similar situation. | |||
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"if anyone wants to continue the discussion in response to the last thing i read - please tell me i didn’t just read women are attracted to bad boys insinuating that women find someone who engages in sexual assault attractive
Nope.
Once again I didnt say.
I agree with your point about toxic lad culture.
But there is also the thing about bad boys.
I used to work with a lad who would sleep around and generally treat women like shit.Everyone knew what he was like.. yet every work night out he would kop off.
Obviously most women realises what he was like.
But obviously not all.
being non monogamous or not committing to someone you sleep with is not in any way connected to sexual harassment though - its an entirely random tangent to go off at talking about women’s attraction to a bad boy during a discussion of sexual assault
i know you might not realise it and might not mean it - but this is part of the problem - its like the misdirection done by magicians - oh look at this over here and lets take your focus off what is really going on ,
oh girls like a bad boy so lets talk about that rather than the fact that 97% of you identified as being sexually harassed "I acknowledged it wasnt a true comparison but you brought up the whole Lad culture thing. | |||
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""Sounds like some of you ladies are afraid of your own shadow....learn self defense or a martial art ......" This has boggled me. Proper fucking boggled me. Victim shaming and blaming as opposed to targeting those that perpetuate the crimes. I’ve seen r*pe apologists before and this is in that mould I'm disgusted, I really am. The discussion isn't "just" about the physical attack. The discussion is how can people change their behaviour to make women feel more comfortable and confident. Take self defense classes? Yeah, I'll fight off that "oi oiiiiii, show us yer tits" with an elbow to the air "Yup | |||
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"That is fucked up but at least we can see ppl true colours. " | |||
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"This is a perpetual argument that has diametrically opposed viewpoints. You have the ones in the middle who will change sides depending which way the wind is blowing. Both sides have valid arguments from their viewpoints. I'm just a guy of no consequence but I see the good and the bad we have always brought our kids up to be decent human beings, respectful to others of either gender, race or faith. So far like to think they have turned out ok and hope will do the same with their kids. As I said in another post break the transmission chain 'to usE the covid mantra" until theN the arguments will go on each side blaming the other tempers will get frayed, its shit I know but some of us are trying to change things. Burning anyone for the actions of a few, gains nothing only perpetuates the situation rather than solves it. Actions beget Actions , Anger begets Anger" i get some of your points, but maybe the anger shouldn’t be at women saying all men , maybe the anger should be at men who have created a situation where you are tarred with their brush maybe getting angry and calling out their behaviour when you see it is exactly what is needed because it’s clear that good guys just being passive good guys hasn’t done much so far | |||
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"So for the blokes. I'd like to think you'd behave with sensitivity around a woman that you knew had been a victim of sexual harassment. You'd not send them an unsolicited dick pic, you'd not get up in their personal space right? Well it's pretty safe to say, take it that all women have experienced sexual harassment in some way or another. " Said it yesterday.. maybe the issue lies in education? | |||
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"So for the blokes. I'd like to think you'd behave with sensitivity around a woman that you knew had been a victim of sexual harassment. You'd not send them an unsolicited dick pic, you'd not get up in their personal space right? Well it's pretty safe to say, take it that all women have experienced sexual harassment in some way or another. " Bingo! It’s easy to pay lip service on a thread where everything is on show but the hard part is doing the things when no one is looking. Be the change that is being said, challenge and be accountable. Treat everyone with respect and care | |||
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"So for the blokes. I'd like to think you'd behave with sensitivity around a woman that you knew had been a victim of sexual harassment. You'd not send them an unsolicited dick pic, you'd not get up in their personal space right? Well it's pretty safe to say, take it that all women have experienced sexual harassment in some way or another. Said it yesterday.. maybe the issue lies in education?" Yes and no. I mean I have no doubt that there is definitely a cultural part that plays a role into it, but it can easily be argued that men and women are hardwired differently. Otherwise, this behaviour would be generalised across sexes. | |||
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"So for the blokes. I'd like to think you'd behave with sensitivity around a woman that you knew had been a victim of sexual harassment. You'd not send them an unsolicited dick pic, you'd not get up in their personal space right? Well it's pretty safe to say, take it that all women have experienced sexual harassment in some way or another. Said it yesterday.. maybe the issue lies in education? Yes and no. I mean I have no doubt that there is definitely a cultural part that plays a role into it, but it can easily be argued that men and women are hardwired differently. Otherwise, this behaviour would be generalised across sexes. " Someone mentioned above about falling into the not all men are like that trap..but when someone mentioned yesterday about wanking on a train in front of a woman.. my 1st thought was..why on earth would you do that? So where would even learn or pick up that such behaviour is acceptable? So is it something you learn or something you pick up. I really cant get my head around it. | |||
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"So for the blokes. I'd like to think you'd behave with sensitivity around a woman that you knew had been a victim of sexual harassment. You'd not send them an unsolicited dick pic, you'd not get up in their personal space right? Well it's pretty safe to say, take it that all women have experienced sexual harassment in some way or another. Said it yesterday.. maybe the issue lies in education? Yes and no. I mean I have no doubt that there is definitely a cultural part that plays a role into it, but it can easily be argued that men and women are hardwired differently. Otherwise, this behaviour would be generalised across sexes. Someone mentioned above about falling into the not all men are like that trap..but when someone mentioned yesterday about wanking on a train in front of a woman.. my 1st thought was..why on earth would you do that? So where would even learn or pick up that such behaviour is acceptable? So is it something you learn or something you pick up. I really cant get my head around it." i think there must be some nature vs nurture element - some people must be born with a primitive wrong chip so to speak - but that chip isn’t the male chromosome and its like when people say evil exists across both genders which it does - but this type of behaviour is much more prevalent in men and most of that is down to the nurture and that comes from all areas of society not just parents | |||
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"So for the blokes. I'd like to think you'd behave with sensitivity around a woman that you knew had been a victim of sexual harassment. You'd not send them an unsolicited dick pic, you'd not get up in their personal space right? Well it's pretty safe to say, take it that all women have experienced sexual harassment in some way or another. " To add to that, if you're not one of the blokes who cat calls, gropes, gets in our personal space, sends unsolicited dick pics etc there are still things you can do.... Everytime one of your mates or relatives cat calls, stares at a woman until she's uncomfortable, makes a comment like 'look at her, she's asking for it...' etc. call them out Every. Single. Time. "Don't be a sleaze", "dude, that's fucking distespectful", "ok Bill, we get it, you like women. But harping on about your boner everytime a woman goes past makes me think you're trying to prove you're not gay". If you have sons, don't comment on a woman's sexual attractiveness in front of them. Doing so just reinforces the idea that women's bodies are public property and to be critiqued and sexualised by all and sundry. | |||
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"So for the blokes. I'd like to think you'd behave with sensitivity around a woman that you knew had been a victim of sexual harassment. You'd not send them an unsolicited dick pic, you'd not get up in their personal space right? Well it's pretty safe to say, take it that all women have experienced sexual harassment in some way or another. Said it yesterday.. maybe the issue lies in education? Yes and no. I mean I have no doubt that there is definitely a cultural part that plays a role into it, but it can easily be argued that men and women are hardwired differently. Otherwise, this behaviour would be generalised across sexes. Someone mentioned above about falling into the not all men are like that trap..but when someone mentioned yesterday about wanking on a train in front of a woman.. my 1st thought was..why on earth would you do that? So where would even learn or pick up that such behaviour is acceptable? So is it something you learn or something you pick up. I really cant get my head around it. i think there must be some nature vs nurture element - some people must be born with a primitive wrong chip so to speak - but that chip isn’t the male chromosome and its like when people say evil exists across both genders which it does - but this type of behaviour is much more prevalent in men and most of that is down to the nurture and that comes from all areas of society not just parents " I was thinking it's possibly a generational thing,as I'm old enough to remember growing up in a sexist age but I'm guessing such behaviour is across all ages. Maybe it is something that should be taught or learnt at school. Which is quite horrifying really. You have to be taught not to be a sex pest. | |||
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"(Chris) I don't have any answers, but it doesn't half make you think. Yes almost all women have been sexually assaulted, but I can never connect that in my head with hardly any of the hundreds of men I've worked or socialised with across the country being capable of that. My main belief would simply be law and order, that all offences need investigating, in some respects what with all these cameras about these days it should be easy enough to pick up and lock away the local park weirdos for example. The horrifying story that this alleged murderer was accused of indecent exposure three days before the offence, but left to go free.... Jeez.... " Mentioned that yesterday That was horrible. The police did nothing | |||
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"This is a perpetual argument that has diametrically opposed viewpoints. You have the ones in the middle who will change sides depending which way the wind is blowing. Both sides have valid arguments from their viewpoints. I'm just a guy of no consequence but I see the good and the bad we have always brought our kids up to be decent human beings, respectful to others of either gender, race or faith. So far like to think they have turned out ok and hope will do the same with their kids. As I said in another post break the transmission chain 'to usE the covid mantra" until theN the arguments will go on each side blaming the other tempers will get frayed, its shit I know but some of us are trying to change things. Burning anyone for the actions of a few, gains nothing only perpetuates the situation rather than solves it. Actions beget Actions , Anger begets Anger i get some of your points, but maybe the anger shouldn’t be at women saying all men , maybe the anger should be at men who have created a situation where you are tarred with their brush maybe getting angry and calling out their behaviour when you see it is exactly what is needed because it’s clear that good guys just being passive good guys hasn’t done much so far " Apologies was referring to anger really as a generic point, not specific to this thread. I'd like to think there are a lot good guys from across the spectrum who are doing something but trying to change attitudes that have been around for centuries, and ingrained into peoples cultures, (stepping carefully not to start another argument on a another subject). But generalising and demonising doesn't help | |||
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"So for the blokes. I'd like to think you'd behave with sensitivity around a woman that you knew had been a victim of sexual harassment. You'd not send them an unsolicited dick pic, you'd not get up in their personal space right? Well it's pretty safe to say, take it that all women have experienced sexual harassment in some way or another. Said it yesterday.. maybe the issue lies in education? Yes and no. I mean I have no doubt that there is definitely a cultural part that plays a role into it, but it can easily be argued that men and women are hardwired differently. Otherwise, this behaviour would be generalised across sexes. Someone mentioned above about falling into the not all men are like that trap..but when someone mentioned yesterday about wanking on a train in front of a woman.. my 1st thought was..why on earth would you do that? So where would even learn or pick up that such behaviour is acceptable? So is it something you learn or something you pick up. I really cant get my head around it." I reckon porn has a lot to do with it. From the early days of naughty movie where a plumber would come round to fix the pipes or whatever, to some random sex acts on a train... a guy gets his cock out and a woman falls under it's power. Classic fantasy bullshit, and probably a driving factor of a lot of the unsolicited dick pic sending which goes on... "once she sees it, she'll be unable to resist" as if pendulous balls are some sort of hypn0tists pocket watch. Porn caters to a predominantly male audience and a lot of it reduces women to objects that sex happens to. From a power relationship/ human value point of view it is can paint a pretty horrendous picture. It's one thing amongst many parts of the culture which I think is damaging. And I don't want to hear #notallporn | |||
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"(Chris) I don't have any answers, but it doesn't half make you think. Yes almost all women have been sexually assaulted, but I can never connect that in my head with hardly any of the hundreds of men I've worked or socialised with across the country being capable of that. My main belief would simply be law and order, that all offences need investigating, in some respects what with all these cameras about these days it should be easy enough to pick up and lock away the local park weirdos for example. The horrifying story that this alleged murderer was accused of indecent exposure three days before the offence, but left to go free.... Jeez.... " i think your post highlights a huge bit of the problem - you totally accept the most women part but find it hard to connect that with any if the men you know so your brain leads you to the local park weirdo when high chance its actually your work colleague or you mate or god forbid your brother or your son you say let the courts deal with it, but how many of the jury or judges are men like you who find it hard to connect those crimes to the “ordinary man” the bit we need the “not all men because its not me” folk to help with is helping people to make that connection to the ordinary men in their lives rather than the monster they imagine in their head by consciously looking for and calling out the bad behaviour at the more tame end of the spectrum, letting people know damn straight its not all men and i am not one of them so i wont be seen condoning your behaviour with my silence, and just because you are my friend/ brother/ colleague and not what i perceive to be a monster doesn’t mean i cant now realise you are also one of “those” men over time thats what makes the change so that the discussion no longer becomes all men , its a discussion about predatory men - but we are a long long way away from that | |||
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"So for the blokes. I'd like to think you'd behave with sensitivity around a woman that you knew had been a victim of sexual harassment. You'd not send them an unsolicited dick pic, you'd not get up in their personal space right? Well it's pretty safe to say, take it that all women have experienced sexual harassment in some way or another. Said it yesterday.. maybe the issue lies in education? Yes and no. I mean I have no doubt that there is definitely a cultural part that plays a role into it, but it can easily be argued that men and women are hardwired differently. Otherwise, this behaviour would be generalised across sexes. Someone mentioned above about falling into the not all men are like that trap..but when someone mentioned yesterday about wanking on a train in front of a woman.. my 1st thought was..why on earth would you do that? So where would even learn or pick up that such behaviour is acceptable? So is it something you learn or something you pick up. I really cant get my head around it. I reckon porn has a lot to do with it. From the early days of naughty movie where a plumber would come round to fix the pipes or whatever, to some random sex acts on a train... a guy gets his cock out and a woman falls under it's power. Classic fantasy bullshit, and probably a driving factor of a lot of the unsolicited dick pic sending which goes on... "once she sees it, she'll be unable to resist" as if pendulous balls are some sort of hypn0tists pocket watch. Porn caters to a predominantly male audience and a lot of it reduces women to objects that sex happens to. From a power relationship/ human value point of view it is can paint a pretty horrendous picture. It's one thing amongst many parts of the culture which I think is damaging. And I don't want to hear #notallporn" True I guess it's like the old video nasty/violence argument. There will be a portion of people who wont be able to separate reality from fiction. | |||
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"This is a perpetual argument that has diametrically opposed viewpoints. You have the ones in the middle who will change sides depending which way the wind is blowing. Both sides have valid arguments from their viewpoints. I'm just a guy of no consequence but I see the good and the bad we have always brought our kids up to be decent human beings, respectful to others of either gender, race or faith. So far like to think they have turned out ok and hope will do the same with their kids. As I said in another post break the transmission chain 'to usE the covid mantra" until theN the arguments will go on each side blaming the other tempers will get frayed, its shit I know but some of us are trying to change things. Burning anyone for the actions of a few, gains nothing only perpetuates the situation rather than solves it. Actions beget Actions , Anger begets Anger i get some of your points, but maybe the anger shouldn’t be at women saying all men , maybe the anger should be at men who have created a situation where you are tarred with their brush maybe getting angry and calling out their behaviour when you see it is exactly what is needed because it’s clear that good guys just being passive good guys hasn’t done much so far Apologies was referring to anger really as a generic point, not specific to this thread. I'd like to think there are a lot good guys from across the spectrum who are doing something but trying to change attitudes that have been around for centuries, and ingrained into peoples cultures, (stepping carefully not to start another argument on a another subject). But generalising and demonising doesn't help " i also mean generic anger - trying to change thoughts ingrained into not just culture but gender for many many centuries is exactly what we should be trying to do - nobody said it would be easy but it doesnt mean we don’t try | |||
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"So for the blokes. I'd like to think you'd behave with sensitivity around a woman that you knew had been a victim of sexual harassment. You'd not send them an unsolicited dick pic, you'd not get up in their personal space right? Well it's pretty safe to say, take it that all women have experienced sexual harassment in some way or another. Said it yesterday.. maybe the issue lies in education? Yes and no. I mean I have no doubt that there is definitely a cultural part that plays a role into it, but it can easily be argued that men and women are hardwired differently. Otherwise, this behaviour would be generalised across sexes. Someone mentioned above about falling into the not all men are like that trap..but when someone mentioned yesterday about wanking on a train in front of a woman.. my 1st thought was..why on earth would you do that? So where would even learn or pick up that such behaviour is acceptable? So is it something you learn or something you pick up. I really cant get my head around it. I reckon porn has a lot to do with it. From the early days of naughty movie where a plumber would come round to fix the pipes or whatever, to some random sex acts on a train... a guy gets his cock out and a woman falls under it's power. Classic fantasy bullshit, and probably a driving factor of a lot of the unsolicited dick pic sending which goes on... "once she sees it, she'll be unable to resist" as if pendulous balls are some sort of hypn0tists pocket watch. Porn caters to a predominantly male audience and a lot of it reduces women to objects that sex happens to. From a power relationship/ human value point of view it is can paint a pretty horrendous picture. It's one thing amongst many parts of the culture which I think is damaging. And I don't want to hear #notallporn" some porn is problematic sure, but i think its more about educating people from a really young age that porn is fantasy and not a parallel to be drawn on acceptable behaviour in public people are horrified when talk of broader sexual education is discussed because they want to protect their babies from sexualisation too young but its too late for that , technology snd societal behaviour robbed your of that chance- the sexualisation of them probably already happened and their phones (or the phone of a friend at school) means they already have access to all the wrong kids of education- lets give them the right one | |||
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"As some one who isn't a female and has no idea about what it's like to be a female is it genuinely true that every single female has been sexually, verbally or physically attacked because according to my socials that appears to be what loads of people are posting seems abit scary." i think the poll said between 18-24 its was 97% that had been harassed its fair to say we havent all been assaulted there is a spectrum of behaviour but harassment yes is genuinely that common | |||
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"(Chris) I don't have any answers, but it doesn't half make you think. Yes almost all women have been sexually assaulted, but I can never connect that in my head with hardly any of the hundreds of men I've worked or socialised with across the country being capable of that. My main belief would simply be law and order, that all offences need investigating, in some respects what with all these cameras about these days it should be easy enough to pick up and lock away the local park weirdos for example. The horrifying story that this alleged murderer was accused of indecent exposure three days before the offence, but left to go free.... Jeez.... Mentioned that yesterday That was horrible. The police did nothing " It may well stink worse that he was a police officer, but I would suspect that if anyone is arrested for indecent exposure they probably aren't held in custody these days. Certainly not imprisoned, given treatment etc That's always been my view, back to 'broken window' law and order. | |||
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"As some one who isn't a female and has no idea about what it's like to be a female is it genuinely true that every single female has been sexually, verbally or physically attacked because according to my socials that appears to be what loads of people are posting seems abit scary. i think the poll said between 18-24 its was 97% that had been harassed its fair to say we havent all been assaulted there is a spectrum of behaviour but harassment yes is genuinely that common " I'd just like to add to that if I may..... The data might only have a snapshot of 18-24 year old women from January this year, but it can be extrapolated from this data and data from previous surveys that the figures are similar for an age range far above the 24 year cut off. | |||
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"So for the blokes. I'd like to think you'd behave with sensitivity around a woman that you knew had been a victim of sexual harassment. You'd not send them an unsolicited dick pic, you'd not get up in their personal space right? Well it's pretty safe to say, take it that all women have experienced sexual harassment in some way or another. Said it yesterday.. maybe the issue lies in education? Yes and no. I mean I have no doubt that there is definitely a cultural part that plays a role into it, but it can easily be argued that men and women are hardwired differently. Otherwise, this behaviour would be generalised across sexes. Someone mentioned above about falling into the not all men are like that trap..but when someone mentioned yesterday about wanking on a train in front of a woman.. my 1st thought was..why on earth would you do that? So where would even learn or pick up that such behaviour is acceptable? So is it something you learn or something you pick up. I really cant get my head around it. I reckon porn has a lot to do with it. From the early days of naughty movie where a plumber would come round to fix the pipes or whatever, to some random sex acts on a train... a guy gets his cock out and a woman falls under it's power. Classic fantasy bullshit, and probably a driving factor of a lot of the unsolicited dick pic sending which goes on... "once she sees it, she'll be unable to resist" as if pendulous balls are some sort of hypn0tists pocket watch. Porn caters to a predominantly male audience and a lot of it reduces women to objects that sex happens to. From a power relationship/ human value point of view it is can paint a pretty horrendous picture. It's one thing amongst many parts of the culture which I think is damaging. And I don't want to hear #notallporn some porn is problematic sure, but i think its more about educating people from a really young age that porn is fantasy and not a parallel to be drawn on acceptable behaviour in public people are horrified when talk of broader sexual education is discussed because they want to protect their babies from sexualisation too young but its too late for that , technology snd societal behaviour robbed your of that chance- the sexualisation of them probably already happened and their phones (or the phone of a friend at school) means they already have access to all the wrong kids of education- lets give them the right one " Absolutely agree. When sex education is left to a largely misogynistic porn industry you're going to get young men with messed up views. | |||
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"As some one who isn't a female and has no idea about what it's like to be a female is it genuinely true that every single female has been sexually, verbally or physically attacked because according to my socials that appears to be what loads of people are posting seems abit scary. i think the poll said between 18-24 its was 97% that had been harassed its fair to say we havent all been assaulted there is a spectrum of behaviour but harassment yes is genuinely that common I'd just like to add to that if I may..... The data might only have a snapshot of 18-24 year old women from January this year, but it can be extrapolated from this data and data from previous surveys that the figures are similar for an age range far above the 24 year cut off." oh yeah once you hit 25 the experience isnt erased from your memory and you are not safe from it happening again | |||
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"This is a perpetual argument that has diametrically opposed viewpoints. You have the ones in the middle who will change sides depending which way the wind is blowing. Both sides have valid arguments from their viewpoints. I'm just a guy of no consequence but I see the good and the bad we have always brought our kids up to be decent human beings, respectful to others of either gender, race or faith. So far like to think they have turned out ok and hope will do the same with their kids. As I said in another post break the transmission chain 'to usE the covid mantra" until theN the arguments will go on each side blaming the other tempers will get frayed, its shit I know but some of us are trying to change things. Burning anyone for the actions of a few, gains nothing only perpetuates the situation rather than solves it. Actions beget Actions , Anger begets Anger i get some of your points, but maybe the anger shouldn’t be at women saying all men , maybe the anger should be at men who have created a situation where you are tarred with their brush maybe getting angry and calling out their behaviour when you see it is exactly what is needed because it’s clear that good guys just being passive good guys hasn’t done much so far Apologies was referring to anger really as a generic point, not specific to this thread. I'd like to think there are a lot good guys from across the spectrum who are doing something but trying to change attitudes that have been around for centuries, and ingrained into peoples cultures, (stepping carefully not to start another argument on a another subject). But generalising and demonising doesn't help i also mean generic anger - trying to change thoughts ingrained into not just culture but gender for many many centuries is exactly what we should be trying to do - nobody said it would be easy but it doesnt mean we don’t try " This is the where I was trying to pitch my post, such as these recent events are deplorable, but the media induced feeding frenzy follow, to use a phrase is often counter productive in getting things actually changed. Recent events over the last year can lead to why do we bother, but we press on - three steps forward two steps back. | |||
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"As some one who isn't a female and has no idea about what it's like to be a female is it genuinely true that every single female has been sexually, verbally or physically attacked because according to my socials that appears to be what loads of people are posting seems abit scary. i think the poll said between 18-24 its was 97% that had been harassed its fair to say we havent all been assaulted there is a spectrum of behaviour but harassment yes is genuinely that common I'd just like to add to that if I may..... The data might only have a snapshot of 18-24 year old women from January this year, but it can be extrapolated from this data and data from previous surveys that the figures are similar for an age range far above the 24 year cut off." It t wasn’t just a snapshot of 18-24 year olds, it was a survey of 1089 women and the 18-24 year old group, within that survey, stated that 97% of them had experienced some sort of sexual harassment The report and others are available to be read and out the headlines in context. | |||
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"This is a perpetual argument that has diametrically opposed viewpoints. You have the ones in the middle who will change sides depending which way the wind is blowing. Both sides have valid arguments from their viewpoints. I'm just a guy of no consequence but I see the good and the bad we have always brought our kids up to be decent human beings, respectful to others of either gender, race or faith. So far like to think they have turned out ok and hope will do the same with their kids. As I said in another post break the transmission chain 'to usE the covid mantra" until theN the arguments will go on each side blaming the other tempers will get frayed, its shit I know but some of us are trying to change things. Burning anyone for the actions of a few, gains nothing only perpetuates the situation rather than solves it. Actions beget Actions , Anger begets Anger i get some of your points, but maybe the anger shouldn’t be at women saying all men , maybe the anger should be at men who have created a situation where you are tarred with their brush maybe getting angry and calling out their behaviour when you see it is exactly what is needed because it’s clear that good guys just being passive good guys hasn’t done much so far Apologies was referring to anger really as a generic point, not specific to this thread. I'd like to think there are a lot good guys from across the spectrum who are doing something but trying to change attitudes that have been around for centuries, and ingrained into peoples cultures, (stepping carefully not to start another argument on a another subject). But generalising and demonising doesn't help i also mean generic anger - trying to change thoughts ingrained into not just culture but gender for many many centuries is exactly what we should be trying to do - nobody said it would be easy but it doesnt mean we don’t try This is the where I was trying to pitch my post, such as these recent events are deplorable, but the media induced feeding frenzy follow, to use a phrase is often counter productive in getting things actually changed. Recent events over the last year can lead to why do we bother, but we press on - three steps forward two steps back. " i understand your frustration, but slow as it may be , 3 steps forward then 2 back is still better than static or worse , backsliding without the media frenzy thats what we are left with | |||
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"This is a perpetual argument that has diametrically opposed viewpoints. You have the ones in the middle who will change sides depending which way the wind is blowing. Both sides have valid arguments from their viewpoints. I'm just a guy of no consequence but I see the good and the bad we have always brought our kids up to be decent human beings, respectful to others of either gender, race or faith. So far like to think they have turned out ok and hope will do the same with their kids. As I said in another post break the transmission chain 'to usE the covid mantra" until theN the arguments will go on each side blaming the other tempers will get frayed, its shit I know but some of us are trying to change things. Burning anyone for the actions of a few, gains nothing only perpetuates the situation rather than solves it. Actions beget Actions , Anger begets Anger i get some of your points, but maybe the anger shouldn’t be at women saying all men , maybe the anger should be at men who have created a situation where you are tarred with their brush maybe getting angry and calling out their behaviour when you see it is exactly what is needed because it’s clear that good guys just being passive good guys hasn’t done much so far Apologies was referring to anger really as a generic point, not specific to this thread. I'd like to think there are a lot good guys from across the spectrum who are doing something but trying to change attitudes that have been around for centuries, and ingrained into peoples cultures, (stepping carefully not to start another argument on a another subject). But generalising and demonising doesn't help i also mean generic anger - trying to change thoughts ingrained into not just culture but gender for many many centuries is exactly what we should be trying to do - nobody said it would be easy but it doesnt mean we don’t try This is the where I was trying to pitch my post, such as these recent events are deplorable, but the media induced feeding frenzy follow, to use a phrase is often counter productive in getting things actually changed. Recent events over the last year can lead to why do we bother, but we press on - three steps forward two steps back. " I know it's going ot a bit ,but I heard on the radio that domestic abuse had rocketed during lockdown. I don't know if this is something the media tend not to focus on. | |||
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"As some one who isn't a female and has no idea about what it's like to be a female is it genuinely true that every single female has been sexually, verbally or physically attacked because according to my socials that appears to be what loads of people are posting seems abit scary. i think the poll said between 18-24 its was 97% that had been harassed its fair to say we havent all been assaulted there is a spectrum of behaviour but harassment yes is genuinely that common I'd just like to add to that if I may..... The data might only have a snapshot of 18-24 year old women from January this year, but it can be extrapolated from this data and data from previous surveys that the figures are similar for an age range far above the 24 year cut off. It t wasn’t just a snapshot of 18-24 year olds, it was a survey of 1089 women and the 18-24 year old group, within that survey, stated that 97% of them had experienced some sort of sexual harassment The report and others are available to be read and out the headlines in context. " Apologies.... I did only read reports about the report so far. Thanks. | |||
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"It's not for women to learn how to defend themselves. It's for men to learn how to behave properly around women. "Quite sad really that this needed to be said  | |||
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"It's also interesting that some dudes haven't got the balls to say what they think on the thread and have gone straight to PM. Nobody is tarring anybody with the same brush, don't you understand? Some grenades go off, some grenades don't. I'm gonna keep a safe distance from all grenades as best as I can coz I don't know which ones may have had the pin pulled. Some grenades can't tell I'm a little uncomfortable and roll right towards me, they could do their bit and roll the other fucking way. That easier to understand? " If they dont have the courage to say it an open forum they should keep schtum | |||
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"It's also interesting that some dudes haven't got the balls to say what they think on the thread and have gone straight to PM. Nobody is tarring anybody with the same brush, don't you understand? Some grenades go off, some grenades don't. I'm gonna keep a safe distance from all grenades as best as I can coz I don't know which ones may have had the pin pulled. Some grenades can't tell I'm a little uncomfortable and roll right towards me, they could do their bit and roll the other fucking way. That easier to understand? If they dont have the courage to say it an open forum they should keep schtum " I'll say it It gets me in trouble sometimes but i'll say what i think without hesitation Why? Because i have lived in silence for too long. | |||
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"Good to see so much constructive debate, even with the occasional diversion into depressing misogyny. The not all men stuff is at best a stupidly misplaced and thin skinned defensive reaction, and at worst an attempt to delegitimise the experiences of countless women. The sorts of behaviours which many of the women I know, and on this very thread, have described are absolutely horrendous and unacceptable. Completely unacceptable. If you're a man and your reaction to reading these things is "well I'm not like that" then have a fucking word with yourself. I’d love to know why you think that men who don’t treat women badly, don’t r”pe women, don’t act like misogynists and think to themselves that they are not like that, “need to have a fucking word with themselves”. Why should good men feel guilty because some men are horrible bastards? Good men need to carry on being good men and horrible Bastards need to be identified and punished accordingly." Can't help you I'm afraid. I didn't mention good men feeling guilty. Nothing to do with my point. I was addressing the "not all men" reaction | |||
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"As some one who isn't a female and has no idea about what it's like to be a female is it genuinely true that every single female has been sexually, verbally or physically attacked because according to my socials that appears to be what loads of people are posting seems abit scary. i think the poll said between 18-24 its was 97% that had been harassed its fair to say we havent all been assaulted there is a spectrum of behaviour but harassment yes is genuinely that common I'd just like to add to that if I may..... The data might only have a snapshot of 18-24 year old women from January this year, but it can be extrapolated from this data and data from previous surveys that the figures are similar for an age range far above the 24 year cut off. It t wasn’t just a snapshot of 18-24 year olds, it was a survey of 1089 women and the 18-24 year old group, within that survey, stated that 97% of them had experienced some sort of sexual harassment The report and others are available to be read and out the headlines in context. Apologies.... I did only read reports about the report so far. Thanks." No problem I think in discussions like this fuelled by media headlines, they will always get heated. Everyone has a point of view or an experience, and none of these should be belittled, but it is important that the information is put into context | |||
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"This is a perpetual argument that has diametrically opposed viewpoints. You have the ones in the middle who will change sides depending which way the wind is blowing. Both sides have valid arguments from their viewpoints. I'm just a guy of no consequence but I see the good and the bad we have always brought our kids up to be decent human beings, respectful to others of either gender, race or faith. So far like to think they have turned out ok and hope will do the same with their kids. As I said in another post break the transmission chain 'to usE the covid mantra" until theN the arguments will go on each side blaming the other tempers will get frayed, its shit I know but some of us are trying to change things. Burning anyone for the actions of a few, gains nothing only perpetuates the situation rather than solves it. Actions beget Actions , Anger begets Anger i get some of your points, but maybe the anger shouldn’t be at women saying all men , maybe the anger should be at men who have created a situation where you are tarred with their brush maybe getting angry and calling out their behaviour when you see it is exactly what is needed because it’s clear that good guys just being passive good guys hasn’t done much so far Apologies was referring to anger really as a generic point, not specific to this thread. I'd like to think there are a lot good guys from across the spectrum who are doing something but trying to change attitudes that have been around for centuries, and ingrained into peoples cultures, (stepping carefully not to start another argument on a another subject). But generalising and demonising doesn't help i also mean generic anger - trying to change thoughts ingrained into not just culture but gender for many many centuries is exactly what we should be trying to do - nobody said it would be easy but it doesnt mean we don’t try This is the where I was trying to pitch my post, such as these recent events are deplorable, but the media induced feeding frenzy follow, to use a phrase is often counter productive in getting things actually changed. Recent events over the last year can lead to why do we bother, but we press on - three steps forward two steps back. i understand your frustration, but slow as it may be , 3 steps forward then 2 back is still better than static or worse , backsliding without the media frenzy thats what we are left with " As Korben Dallas says to Leeloo, "it is now time to do your thing, save the world" - Leeloo replies "Why try to save a world that is hell bent on destroying itself" Which Korben Replies "Because there are some good things in this world, worth saving" I"m no martyr or super hero just a guy who wants to do his part to change things, hope my kids, grandkids continue | |||
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"Good to see so much constructive debate, even with the occasional diversion into depressing misogyny. The not all men stuff is at best a stupidly misplaced and thin skinned defensive reaction, and at worst an attempt to delegitimise the experiences of countless women. The sorts of behaviours which many of the women I know, and on this very thread, have described are absolutely horrendous and unacceptable. Completely unacceptable. If you're a man and your reaction to reading these things is "well I'm not like that" then have a fucking word with yourself. I’d love to know why you think that men who don’t treat women badly, don’t r”pe women, don’t act like misogynists and think to themselves that they are not like that, “need to have a fucking word with themselves”. Why should good men feel guilty because some men are horrible bastards? Good men need to carry on being good men and horrible Bastards need to be identified and punished accordingly." I assumed it was the completely innocent stuff that fellas can do that make women feel the fear even if for a brief second. As a man, have you been out jogging and overtaken a woman who's walking? Every chance that totally innocent act had her heart pounding as she heard your footsteps closing in on her. That's how I read it anyway. | |||
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"It's also interesting that some dudes haven't got the balls to say what they think on the thread and have gone straight to PM. Nobody is tarring anybody with the same brush, don't you understand? Some grenades go off, some grenades don't. I'm gonna keep a safe distance from all grenades as best as I can coz I don't know which ones may have had the pin pulled. Some grenades can't tell I'm a little uncomfortable and roll right towards me, they could do their bit and roll the other fucking way. That easier to understand? If they dont have the courage to say it an open forum they should keep schtum I'll say it It gets me in trouble sometimes but i'll say what i think without hesitation Why? Because i have lived in silence for too long. "  | |||
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"It's also interesting that some dudes haven't got the balls to say what they think on the thread and have gone straight to PM. Nobody is tarring anybody with the same brush, don't you understand? Some grenades go off, some grenades don't. I'm gonna keep a safe distance from all grenades as best as I can coz I don't know which ones may have had the pin pulled. Some grenades can't tell I'm a little uncomfortable and roll right towards me, they could do their bit and roll the other fucking way. That easier to understand? " WTF peach, whoever is doing this is. Is the exact reason why us females often feel intimidated, you know your words/behaviour isn't acceptable to the majority so you hide it. If you're too scared to air your view in public then deep dowm you're in the wrong. Why the fuck would you go and pm a woman who has suffered at the hands of a man? Did you not consider you might trigger her? FFS | |||
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"As some one who isn't a female and has no idea about what it's like to be a female is it genuinely true that every single female has been sexually, verbally or physically attacked because according to my socials that appears to be what loads of people are posting seems abit scary. i think the poll said between 18-24 its was 97% that had been harassed its fair to say we havent all been assaulted there is a spectrum of behaviour but harassment yes is genuinely that common I'd just like to add to that if I may..... The data might only have a snapshot of 18-24 year old women from January this year, but it can be extrapolated from this data and data from previous surveys that the figures are similar for an age range far above the 24 year cut off. It t wasn’t just a snapshot of 18-24 year olds, it was a survey of 1089 women and the 18-24 year old group, within that survey, stated that 97% of them had experienced some sort of sexual harassment The report and others are available to be read and out the headlines in context. Apologies.... I did only read reports about the report so far. Thanks. No problem I think in discussions like this fuelled by media headlines, they will always get heated. Everyone has a point of view or an experience, and none of these should be belittled, but it is important that the information is put into context" Completely agree. | |||
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"Good to see so much constructive debate, even with the occasional diversion into depressing misogyny. The not all men stuff is at best a stupidly misplaced and thin skinned defensive reaction, and at worst an attempt to delegitimise the experiences of countless women. The sorts of behaviours which many of the women I know, and on this very thread, have described are absolutely horrendous and unacceptable. Completely unacceptable. If you're a man and your reaction to reading these things is "well I'm not like that" then have a fucking word with yourself. I’d love to know why you think that men who don’t treat women badly, don’t r”pe women, don’t act like misogynists and think to themselves that they are not like that, “need to have a fucking word with themselves”. Why should good men feel guilty because some men are horrible bastards? Good men need to carry on being good men and horrible Bastards need to be identified and punished accordingly. Can't help you I'm afraid. I didn't mention good men feeling guilty. Nothing to do with my point. I was addressing the "not all men" reaction "Re read your the line in your post that starts “ if you are a man....” then ask yourself is that aimed at all men, good men or horrible bastards? | |||
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"So for the blokes. I'd like to think you'd behave with sensitivity around a woman that you knew had been a victim of sexual harassment. You'd not send them an unsolicited dick pic, you'd not get up in their personal space right? Well it's pretty safe to say, take it that all women have experienced sexual harassment in some way or another. Said it yesterday.. maybe the issue lies in education? Yes and no. I mean I have no doubt that there is definitely a cultural part that plays a role into it, but it can easily be argued that men and women are hardwired differently. Otherwise, this behaviour would be generalised across sexes. i think thats a wee bit of a cop out - sure we have different biological make up - but if that was the driver then it wouldn’t be some men - it would literally be all men testosterone doesn’t create r*pists - society does " Rapists have been a thing in every society and culture throughout history So explain to me how society creates Rapists? Especially modern day western societies where its quite obviously thought of as disgusting and unwanted behaviour by 99% of men If anything modern culture and society has curbed this behaviour Most men think this behaviour is disgusting Lionel mentioned the example of a guy wanking on a Train, every male i know would say that is un acceptablle behaviour You are cllaiming socciety creates the problem, if it did would not every male think its acceptable to whip their dick out on the train? | |||
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"Good to see so much constructive debate, even with the occasional diversion into depressing misogyny. The not all men stuff is at best a stupidly misplaced and thin skinned defensive reaction, and at worst an attempt to delegitimise the experiences of countless women. The sorts of behaviours which many of the women I know, and on this very thread, have described are absolutely horrendous and unacceptable. Completely unacceptable. If you're a man and your reaction to reading these things is "well I'm not like that" then have a fucking word with yourself. I’d love to know why you think that men who don’t treat women badly, don’t r”pe women, don’t act like misogynists and think to themselves that they are not like that, “need to have a fucking word with themselves”. Why should good men feel guilty because some men are horrible bastards? Good men need to carry on being good men and horrible Bastards need to be identified and punished accordingly. I assumed it was the completely innocent stuff that fellas can do that make women feel the fear even if for a brief second. As a man, have you been out jogging and overtaken a woman who's walking? Every chance that totally innocent act had her heart pounding as she heard your footsteps closing in on her. That's how I read it anyway. " Well I agree, that is a thing and guys can be mindful that even innocent actions can be intimidating to some people. But being a bit naive does not make them bad. | |||
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"So for the blokes. I'd like to think you'd behave with sensitivity around a woman that you knew had been a victim of sexual harassment. You'd not send them an unsolicited dick pic, you'd not get up in their personal space right? Well it's pretty safe to say, take it that all women have experienced sexual harassment in some way or another. Said it yesterday.. maybe the issue lies in education? Yes and no. I mean I have no doubt that there is definitely a cultural part that plays a role into it, but it can easily be argued that men and women are hardwired differently. Otherwise, this behaviour would be generalised across sexes. i think thats a wee bit of a cop out - sure we have different biological make up - but if that was the driver then it wouldn’t be some men - it would literally be all men testosterone doesn’t create r*pists - society does Rapists have been a thing in every society and culture throughout history So explain to me how society creates Rapists? Especially modern day western societies where its quite obviously thought of as disgusting and unwanted behaviour by 99% of men If anything modern culture and society has curbed this behaviour Most men think this behaviour is disgusting Lionel mentioned the example of a guy wanking on a Train, every male i know would say that is un acceptablle behaviour You are cllaiming socciety creates the problem, if it did would not every male think its acceptable to whip their dick out on the train?" I was the person on the train who had a dude sat in the seat to my right having a wank. Not the tube where the seats face each other, but the seats where there's rows of 2. People walked past and all that happened was mumbles and huffs. Not a soul said anything, me included. I was with my friend, we were teens. So yes, society IS part of the problem for not doing anything. | |||
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"As some one who isn't a female and has no idea about what it's like to be a female is it genuinely true that every single female has been sexually, verbally or physically attacked because according to my socials that appears to be what loads of people are posting seems abit scary." I believe it to be true, yes. I think every woman has, at minimum, had something inappropriate and sexually suggestive shouted at her in the street. I'm lucky that I've not experienced anything that has impacted me, but I have had comments shouted and I've had men trying to feel me up in clubs (back in the day). A swift elbow to the ribs or a jab in the back sorted that out for me. I never used to feel vulnerable so much. I'm not a small woman, I've weight trained most of my life and no-one really seemed to see me as someone to mess with. I've been told I exude a "don't fuck with me" vibe *shrug*. I feel MUCH more vulnerable now I have to use a wheelchair and I take much more care around my behaviour if I'm out on my own. I tend only to drive after dark, I avoid going out in the chair. | |||
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"Good to see so much constructive debate, even with the occasional diversion into depressing misogyny. The not all men stuff is at best a stupidly misplaced and thin skinned defensive reaction, and at worst an attempt to delegitimise the experiences of countless women. The sorts of behaviours which many of the women I know, and on this very thread, have described are absolutely horrendous and unacceptable. Completely unacceptable. If you're a man and your reaction to reading these things is "well I'm not like that" then have a fucking word with yourself. I’d love to know why you think that men who don’t treat women badly, don’t r”pe women, don’t act like misogynists and think to themselves that they are not like that, “need to have a fucking word with themselves”. Why should good men feel guilty because some men are horrible bastards? Good men need to carry on being good men and horrible Bastards need to be identified and punished accordingly. Can't help you I'm afraid. I didn't mention good men feeling guilty. Nothing to do with my point. I was addressing the "not all men" reaction
Re read your the line in your post that starts “ if you are a man....” then ask yourself is that aimed at all men, good men or horrible bastards?"Maybe you re-read it then continue reading "if you're a man and..." see that "and" there? That's called a coordinating conjunction and it means that both of the adjectives in the sentence must be met as conditions for the subsequent point to be relevant. Then ask yourself if you should have bothered replying. | |||
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"Good to see so much constructive debate, even with the occasional diversion into depressing misogyny. The not all men stuff is at best a stupidly misplaced and thin skinned defensive reaction, and at worst an attempt to delegitimise the experiences of countless women. The sorts of behaviours which many of the women I know, and on this very thread, have described are absolutely horrendous and unacceptable. Completely unacceptable. If you're a man and your reaction to reading these things is "well I'm not like that" then have a fucking word with yourself. I’d love to know why you think that men who don’t treat women badly, don’t r”pe women, don’t act like misogynists and think to themselves that they are not like that, “need to have a fucking word with themselves”. Why should good men feel guilty because some men are horrible bastards? Good men need to carry on being good men and horrible Bastards need to be identified and punished accordingly. I assumed it was the completely innocent stuff that fellas can do that make women feel the fear even if for a brief second. As a man, have you been out jogging and overtaken a woman who's walking? Every chance that totally innocent act had her heart pounding as she heard your footsteps closing in on her. That's how I read it anyway. Well I agree, that is a thing and guys can be mindful that even innocent actions can be intimidating to some people. But being a bit naive does not make them bad." Absolutely. And I really do think naivety plays a huge part and of course doesn't make people bad. That's why these discussions are so so important in highlighting everyday actions that can cause distress. | |||
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"As some one who isn't a female and has no idea about what it's like to be a female is it genuinely true that every single female has been sexually, verbally or physically attacked because according to my socials that appears to be what loads of people are posting seems abit scary. i think the poll said between 18-24 its was 97% that had been harassed its fair to say we havent all been assaulted there is a spectrum of behaviour but harassment yes is genuinely that common I'd just like to add to that if I may..... The data might only have a snapshot of 18-24 year old women from January this year, but it can be extrapolated from this data and data from previous surveys that the figures are similar for an age range far above the 24 year cut off. It t wasn’t just a snapshot of 18-24 year olds, it was a survey of 1089 women and the 18-24 year old group, within that survey, stated that 97% of them had experienced some sort of sexual harassment The report and others are available to be read and out the headlines in context. Apologies.... I did only read reports about the report so far. Thanks. No problem I think in discussions like this fuelled by media headlines, they will always get heated. Everyone has a point of view or an experience, and none of these should be belittled, but it is important that the information is put into context" i do genuinely think that this is one scenario and cut of data where that context doesn’t change the story- those 18-24 year old will move up an age bracket and their experience doesn’t then disappear - if anything the context makes the situation seem so much more dire, as we have a generation of women with god willing 2/3 of their life ahead of them where almost all of them have already experienced this - if the generations before are not saying the same then we are literally watching the situation getting worse | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
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"So for the blokes. I'd like to think you'd behave with sensitivity around a woman that you knew had been a victim of sexual harassment. You'd not send them an unsolicited dick pic, you'd not get up in their personal space right? Well it's pretty safe to say, take it that all women have experienced sexual harassment in some way or another. Said it yesterday.. maybe the issue lies in education? Yes and no. I mean I have no doubt that there is definitely a cultural part that plays a role into it, but it can easily be argued that men and women are hardwired differently. Otherwise, this behaviour would be generalised across sexes. i think thats a wee bit of a cop out - sure we have different biological make up - but if that was the driver then it wouldn’t be some men - it would literally be all men testosterone doesn’t create r*pists - society does Rapists have been a thing in every society and culture throughout history So explain to me how society creates Rapists? Especially modern day western societies where its quite obviously thought of as disgusting and unwanted behaviour by 99% of men If anything modern culture and society has curbed this behaviour Most men think this behaviour is disgusting Lionel mentioned the example of a guy wanking on a Train, every male i know would say that is un acceptablle behaviour You are cllaiming socciety creates the problem, if it did would not every male think its acceptable to whip their dick out on the train? I was the person on the train who had a dude sat in the seat to my right having a wank. Not the tube where the seats face each other, but the seats where there's rows of 2. People walked past and all that happened was mumbles and huffs. Not a soul said anything, me included. I was with my friend, we were teens. So yes, society IS part of the problem for not doing anything."
That is just shocking.
Did people actually see what he was doing?
Surley someone should have reported it?
I never even realised this wanking on a train was an actual think till I watched everyone hates suzy. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Good to see so much constructive debate, even with the occasional diversion into depressing misogyny. The not all men stuff is at best a stupidly misplaced and thin skinned defensive reaction, and at worst an attempt to delegitimise the experiences of countless women. The sorts of behaviours which many of the women I know, and on this very thread, have described are absolutely horrendous and unacceptable. Completely unacceptable. If you're a man and your reaction to reading these things is "well I'm not like that" then have a fucking word with yourself. I’d love to know why you think that men who don’t treat women badly, don’t r”pe women, don’t act like misogynists and think to themselves that they are not like that, “need to have a fucking word with themselves”. Why should good men feel guilty because some men are horrible bastards? Good men need to carry on being good men and horrible Bastards need to be identified and punished accordingly. Can't help you I'm afraid. I didn't mention good men feeling guilty. Nothing to do with my point. I was addressing the "not all men" reaction
Re read your the line in your post that starts “ if you are a man....” then ask yourself is that aimed at all men, good men or horrible bastards?
Maybe you re-read it then continue reading "if you're a man and..." see that "and" there? That's called a coordinating conjunction and it means that both of the adjectives in the sentence must be met as conditions for the subsequent point to be relevant. Then ask yourself if you should have bothered replying. "Thanks for that, but your condescending reply just highlights your misandrist attitude. We both know what you said. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
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"So for the blokes. I'd like to think you'd behave with sensitivity around a woman that you knew had been a victim of sexual harassment. You'd not send them an unsolicited dick pic, you'd not get up in their personal space right? Well it's pretty safe to say, take it that all women have experienced sexual harassment in some way or another. Said it yesterday.. maybe the issue lies in education? Yes and no. I mean I have no doubt that there is definitely a cultural part that plays a role into it, but it can easily be argued that men and women are hardwired differently. Otherwise, this behaviour would be generalised across sexes. i think thats a wee bit of a cop out - sure we have different biological make up - but if that was the driver then it wouldn’t be some men - it would literally be all men testosterone doesn’t create r*pists - society does Rapists have been a thing in every society and culture throughout history So explain to me how society creates Rapists? Especially modern day western societies where its quite obviously thought of as disgusting and unwanted behaviour by 99% of men If anything modern culture and society has curbed this behaviour Most men think this behaviour is disgusting Lionel mentioned the example of a guy wanking on a Train, every male i know would say that is un acceptablle behaviour You are cllaiming socciety creates the problem, if it did would not every male think its acceptable to whip their dick out on the train? I was the person on the train who had a dude sat in the seat to my right having a wank. Not the tube where the seats face each other, but the seats where there's rows of 2. People walked past and all that happened was mumbles and huffs. Not a soul said anything, me included. I was with my friend, we were teens. So yes, society IS part of the problem for not doing anything." Well i know i would of said something myself, and thats not me trying to be a 'White Knight' I dont thnk what you went through is a reflection of society as a whole at all. But maybe i live in a nice bubble But (Not that i think its exactly comparable) But being a Tv I have had some insight into what Women can go through with weird men while out, so maybe im just more tuned to it than most. But i know from conversations with friends we find it disgusting, same with some parts of what is labled as lad culture which in reality is more just weirdo culture and is not a refelction on most men or boys | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Good to see so much constructive debate, even with the occasional diversion into depressing misogyny. The not all men stuff is at best a stupidly misplaced and thin skinned defensive reaction, and at worst an attempt to delegitimise the experiences of countless women. The sorts of behaviours which many of the women I know, and on this very thread, have described are absolutely horrendous and unacceptable. Completely unacceptable. If you're a man and your reaction to reading these things is "well I'm not like that" then have a fucking word with yourself. I’d love to know why you think that men who don’t treat women badly, don’t r”pe women, don’t act like misogynists and think to themselves that they are not like that, “need to have a fucking word with themselves”. Why should good men feel guilty because some men are horrible bastards? Good men need to carry on being good men and horrible Bastards need to be identified and punished accordingly. Can't help you I'm afraid. I didn't mention good men feeling guilty. Nothing to do with my point. I was addressing the "not all men" reaction
Re read your the line in your post that starts “ if you are a man....” then ask yourself is that aimed at all men, good men or horrible bastards?
Maybe you re-read it then continue reading "if you're a man and..." see that "and" there? That's called a coordinating conjunction and it means that both of the adjectives in the sentence must be met as conditions for the subsequent point to be relevant. Then ask yourself if you should have bothered replying.
Thanks for that, but your condescending reply just highlights your misandrist attitude.
We both know what you said. "I don't hate men or women, but I do have a problem with stupidity when it relates to such an important topic. But really, I don't want to derail the debate here any further to entertain your lack of reading ability so won't be responding to you again on the thread  | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"So for the blokes. I'd like to think you'd behave with sensitivity around a woman that you knew had been a victim of sexual harassment. You'd not send them an unsolicited dick pic, you'd not get up in their personal space right? Well it's pretty safe to say, take it that all women have experienced sexual harassment in some way or another. Said it yesterday.. maybe the issue lies in education? Yes and no. I mean I have no doubt that there is definitely a cultural part that plays a role into it, but it can easily be argued that men and women are hardwired differently. Otherwise, this behaviour would be generalised across sexes. i think thats a wee bit of a cop out - sure we have different biological make up - but if that was the driver then it wouldn’t be some men - it would literally be all men testosterone doesn’t create r*pists - society does Rapists have been a thing in every society and culture throughout history So explain to me how society creates Rapists? Especially modern day western societies where its quite obviously thought of as disgusting and unwanted behaviour by 99% of men If anything modern culture and society has curbed this behaviour Most men think this behaviour is disgusting Lionel mentioned the example of a guy wanking on a Train, every male i know would say that is un acceptablle behaviour You are cllaiming socciety creates the problem, if it did would not every male think its acceptable to whip their dick out on the train? I was the person on the train who had a dude sat in the seat to my right having a wank. Not the tube where the seats face each other, but the seats where there's rows of 2. People walked past and all that happened was mumbles and huffs. Not a soul said anything, me included. I was with my friend, we were teens. So yes, society IS part of the problem for not doing anything.
That is just shocking.
Did people actually see what he was doing?
Surley someone should have reported it?
I never even realised this wanking on a train was an actual think till I watched everyone hates suzy."I can only guess that those walking past and catching a glimpse didn't want any aggro. People don't wanna be the one to 'confront the weirdo or perv' Tough shit, it's now time. I had no idea the numbers were so high, I genuinely just thought I was unlucky or had a "come get me aura". I'm not. This shit happens to more people than anyone could ever comprehend. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
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"So for the blokes. I'd like to think you'd behave with sensitivity around a woman that you knew had been a victim of sexual harassment. You'd not send them an unsolicited dick pic, you'd not get up in their personal space right? Well it's pretty safe to say, take it that all women have experienced sexual harassment in some way or another. Said it yesterday.. maybe the issue lies in education? Yes and no. I mean I have no doubt that there is definitely a cultural part that plays a role into it, but it can easily be argued that men and women are hardwired differently. Otherwise, this behaviour would be generalised across sexes. i think thats a wee bit of a cop out - sure we have different biological make up - but if that was the driver then it wouldn’t be some men - it would literally be all men testosterone doesn’t create r*pists - society does Rapists have been a thing in every society and culture throughout history So explain to me how society creates Rapists? Especially modern day western societies where its quite obviously thought of as disgusting and unwanted behaviour by 99% of men If anything modern culture and society has curbed this behaviour Most men think this behaviour is disgusting Lionel mentioned the example of a guy wanking on a Train, every male i know would say that is un acceptablle behaviour You are cllaiming socciety creates the problem, if it did would not every male think its acceptable to whip their dick out on the train? I was the person on the train who had a dude sat in the seat to my right having a wank. Not the tube where the seats face each other, but the seats where there's rows of 2. People walked past and all that happened was mumbles and huffs. Not a soul said anything, me included. I was with my friend, we were teens. So yes, society IS part of the problem for not doing anything. Well i know i would of said something myself, and thats not me trying to be a 'White Knight' I dont thnk what you went through is a reflection of society as a whole at all. But maybe i live in a nice bubble But (Not that i think its exactly comparable) But being a Tv I have had some insight into what Women can go through with weird men while out, so maybe im just more tuned to it than most. But i know from conversations with friends we find it disgusting, same with some parts of what is labled as lad culture which in reality is more just weirdo culture and is not a refelction on most men or boys" I think my 1st reaction would be shock And then I think I'd probally tell someone. It's quite jaw dropping that this actually happens. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
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"So for the blokes. I'd like to think you'd behave with sensitivity around a woman that you knew had been a victim of sexual harassment. You'd not send them an unsolicited dick pic, you'd not get up in their personal space right? Well it's pretty safe to say, take it that all women have experienced sexual harassment in some way or another. Said it yesterday.. maybe the issue lies in education? Yes and no. I mean I have no doubt that there is definitely a cultural part that plays a role into it, but it can easily be argued that men and women are hardwired differently. Otherwise, this behaviour would be generalised across sexes. i think thats a wee bit of a cop out - sure we have different biological make up - but if that was the driver then it wouldn’t be some men - it would literally be all men testosterone doesn’t create r*pists - society does Rapists have been a thing in every society and culture throughout history So explain to me how society creates Rapists? Especially modern day western societies where its quite obviously thought of as disgusting and unwanted behaviour by 99% of men If anything modern culture and society has curbed this behaviour Most men think this behaviour is disgusting Lionel mentioned the example of a guy wanking on a Train, every male i know would say that is un acceptablle behaviour You are cllaiming socciety creates the problem, if it did would not every male think its acceptable to whip their dick out on the train?" just for context you get that my original point was the nature vs nurture debate right because someone said men are just hard wired different as though something genetic ally makes them act like this and like you said every man isnt whipping their dick out on a train but all cis men have the male chromosome so its nothing to do with your biology however on the nurture side there iw much mire nuance because not everyone reacts to society in the same way , young boys are not born with an overwhelming urge to cat call women as soon as they can talk , society teaches them over time that that is acceptable because people laugh it off and there will be no consequences , however some boys grow up and don’t care that society has deemed it acceptable- they decide for themselves that they think it is unacceptable and don’t behave that way , societal acceptance can be resisted or leaned into unlike genetics on the flip side of that some people take that societal acceptance of some misogynistic behaviour (and in reality there is social acceptance of much much more than cat calling) and in their head that escalates over time til they become the man with his dick out of the train or sexually assaulting someone until you break the chain of misogyny being something society deems acceptable the varying degrees to which it is carried out will always be justifiable in some buggers mind lets face it a R*pist thinks they are entitled to that woman’s body or that it will be a display of power over her - if that isnt misogyny (albeit at the extreme end) i dont know what is | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
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(closed, thread got too big) | |||
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"So for the blokes. I'd like to think you'd behave with sensitivity around a woman that you knew had been a victim of sexual harassment. You'd not send them an unsolicited dick pic, you'd not get up in their personal space right? Well it's pretty safe to say, take it that all women have experienced sexual harassment in some way or another. Said it yesterday.. maybe the issue lies in education? Yes and no. I mean I have no doubt that there is definitely a cultural part that plays a role into it, but it can easily be argued that men and women are hardwired differently. Otherwise, this behaviour would be generalised across sexes. i think thats a wee bit of a cop out - sure we have different biological make up - but if that was the driver then it wouldn’t be some men - it would literally be all men testosterone doesn’t create r*pists - society does Rapists have been a thing in every society and culture throughout history So explain to me how society creates Rapists? Especially modern day western societies where its quite obviously thought of as disgusting and unwanted behaviour by 99% of men If anything modern culture and society has curbed this behaviour Most men think this behaviour is disgusting Lionel mentioned the example of a guy wanking on a Train, every male i know would say that is un acceptablle behaviour You are cllaiming socciety creates the problem, if it did would not every male think its acceptable to whip their dick out on the train? I was the person on the train who had a dude sat in the seat to my right having a wank. Not the tube where the seats face each other, but the seats where there's rows of 2. People walked past and all that happened was mumbles and huffs. Not a soul said anything, me included. I was with my friend, we were teens. So yes, society IS part of the problem for not doing anything.
That is just shocking.
Did people actually see what he was doing?
Surley someone should have reported it?
I never even realised this wanking on a train was an actual think till I watched everyone hates suzy.
I can only guess that those walking past and catching a glimpse didn't want any aggro. People don't wanna be the one to 'confront the weirdo or perv'
Tough shit, it's now time. I had no idea the numbers were so high, I genuinely just thought I was unlucky or had a "come get me aura". I'm not. This shit happens to more people than anyone could ever comprehend. "I think the people wanting to not get involved or get aggro isnt down to society though but just part of the Human Condition. The same thing will happen in different societies not just this modern western one, and doesnt just happen with sexual misconduct, but violence and all sorts of bad things. Most people just dont want to rock a boat, and this comes up in every part of life | |||
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"As some one who isn't a female and has no idea about what it's like to be a female is it genuinely true that every single female has been sexually, verbally or physically attacked because according to my socials that appears to be what loads of people are posting seems abit scary. i think the poll said between 18-24 its was 97% that had been harassed its fair to say we havent all been assaulted there is a spectrum of behaviour but harassment yes is genuinely that common I'd just like to add to that if I may..... The data might only have a snapshot of 18-24 year old women from January this year, but it can be extrapolated from this data and data from previous surveys that the figures are similar for an age range far above the 24 year cut off. It t wasn’t just a snapshot of 18-24 year olds, it was a survey of 1089 women and the 18-24 year old group, within that survey, stated that 97% of them had experienced some sort of sexual harassment The report and others are available to be read and out the headlines in context. Apologies.... I did only read reports about the report so far. Thanks. No problem I think in discussions like this fuelled by media headlines, they will always get heated. Everyone has a point of view or an experience, and none of these should be belittled, but it is important that the information is put into context i do genuinely think that this is one scenario and cut of data where that context doesn’t change the story- those 18-24 year old will move up an age bracket and their experience doesn’t then disappear - if anything the context makes the situation seem so much more dire, as we have a generation of women with god willing 2/3 of their life ahead of them where almost all of them have already experienced this - if the generations before are not saying the same then we are literally watching the situation getting worse " If you read the report, and based on that snapshot of women surveyed, your last sentence could be true. As with each age group the number of women to have experienced sexual harassment in a public space, declines as the age groups get older. In 11 of the scenarios posed 18-24 group has the highest incidence rate of these and declines as you go through the age groups. The one exception to this is indecent exposure, 18-24 are the least to experience this rising through each age group with the 45-54 experiencing this the most. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Good to see so much constructive debate, even with the occasional diversion into depressing misogyny. The not all men stuff is at best a stupidly misplaced and thin skinned defensive reaction, and at worst an attempt to delegitimise the experiences of countless women. The sorts of behaviours which many of the women I know, and on this very thread, have described are absolutely horrendous and unacceptable. Completely unacceptable. If you're a man and your reaction to reading these things is "well I'm not like that" then have a fucking word with yourself. I’d love to know why you think that men who don’t treat women badly, don’t r”pe women, don’t act like misogynists and think to themselves that they are not like that, “need to have a fucking word with themselves”. Why should good men feel guilty because some men are horrible bastards? Good men need to carry on being good men and horrible Bastards need to be identified and punished accordingly. Can't help you I'm afraid. I didn't mention good men feeling guilty. Nothing to do with my point. I was addressing the "not all men" reaction
Re read your the line in your post that starts “ if you are a man....” then ask yourself is that aimed at all men, good men or horrible bastards?
Maybe you re-read it then continue reading "if you're a man and..." see that "and" there? That's called a coordinating conjunction and it means that both of the adjectives in the sentence must be met as conditions for the subsequent point to be relevant. Then ask yourself if you should have bothered replying.
Thanks for that, but your condescending reply just highlights your misandrist attitude.
We both know what you said.
I don't hate men or women, but I do have a problem with stupidity when it relates to such an important topic. But really, I don't want to derail the debate here any further to entertain your lack of reading ability so won't be responding to you again on the thread "I’m glad you won’t be responding because by implying that I’m stupid and cannot read says much more about you than me. There really is no need to be disrespectful just because someone calls out your behaviour. However, I do agree and also don’t want to detail the thread further. | |||
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"From the previous thread...Sounds like some of you ladies are afraid of your own shadow....learn self defense or a martial art ...... Wow! Nice! I spent years learning both! I'm glad you've never been so terrified you cannot move. Or been on the receiving end of an attack from a bloke much bigger and stronger and a trained fighter themselves? How about we teach our men and boys to respect women instead of insisting women need to learn to be tougher?! I kickboxed for 6 years, took self defence classed for over a year after the first time I was r*ped at 13 years of age walking home in the daylight in a residential area. I was still r*ped, assaulted and harassed by multiple men after that. Is that my fault? Jesus fucking christ Im glad i missed the last thread Who made the comment about being afraid of our own shadows? Can you tell me in a pm please? Im currently trying to get out of an abusive relationship. I would like to advise that tiny man that he needs to have a word with his tiny self It's interesting that you instantly assumed that it was a man and even added some insults based on that assumption. Yeah babe Theres this thing called female solidarity... I detest misandry as much as I detest misogyny. It's a shame you don't share that belief. Babe. And i detest people that forget the old adage " there, but for the grace of God, go I"" Yes, that's far more important than sexism | |||
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"Throwing a spanner in the works. I was on the train on my way back from London late evening. Two Young's ladies diagonally apposite, lets just say they weren't having a conversation. No I didn't sit there a watch and walk, moved further down the train and put my headphones on and watched TV program on my iPad. Question really was did they do it because they were into each other, they got a kick out of it, or cos some of fart was sitting diagonally opposite. So my point is again we have pointed the finger at the male monster" Worst I could have demonised as a sexual predator, simply cos I'd been sat on the train eating burger king . just trying to go home after a long day | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
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"Throwing a spanner in the works. I was on the train on my way back from London late evening. Two Young's ladies diagonally apposite, lets just say they weren't having a conversation. No I didn't sit there a watch and walk, moved further down the train and put my headphones on and watched TV program on my iPad. Question really was did they do it because they were into each other, they got a kick out of it, or cos some of fart was sitting diagonally opposite. So my point is again we have pointed the finger at the male monster" no - the fact that your brain goes to the motivation for that might have been for my sexual pleasure is where you made the male wrong in this story i’m not keen on pda personally but i never look at couples kissing and think its for my benefit | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
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"As some one who isn't a female and has no idea about what it's like to be a female is it genuinely true that every single female has been sexually, verbally or physically attacked because according to my socials that appears to be what loads of people are posting seems abit scary. i think the poll said between 18-24 its was 97% that had been harassed its fair to say we havent all been assaulted there is a spectrum of behaviour but harassment yes is genuinely that common I'd just like to add to that if I may..... The data might only have a snapshot of 18-24 year old women from January this year, but it can be extrapolated from this data and data from previous surveys that the figures are similar for an age range far above the 24 year cut off. It t wasn’t just a snapshot of 18-24 year olds, it was a survey of 1089 women and the 18-24 year old group, within that survey, stated that 97% of them had experienced some sort of sexual harassment The report and others are available to be read and out the headlines in context. Apologies.... I did only read reports about the report so far. Thanks. No problem I think in discussions like this fuelled by media headlines, they will always get heated. Everyone has a point of view or an experience, and none of these should be belittled, but it is important that the information is put into context i do genuinely think that this is one scenario and cut of data where that context doesn’t change the story- those 18-24 year old will move up an age bracket and their experience doesn’t then disappear - if anything the context makes the situation seem so much more dire, as we have a generation of women with god willing 2/3 of their life ahead of them where almost all of them have already experienced this - if the generations before are not saying the same then we are literally watching the situation getting worse If you read the report, and based on that snapshot of women surveyed, your last sentence could be true. As with each age group the number of women to have experienced sexual harassment in a public space, declines as the age groups get older. In 11 of the scenarios posed 18-24 group has the highest incidence rate of these and declines as you go through the age groups. The one exception to this is indecent exposure, 18-24 are the least to experience this rising through each age group with the 45-54 experiencing this the most. " terrifyingly that just tells me that as time has gone by, people who would have flashed have progressed to harassing instead | |||
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(closed, thread got too big) | |||
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"Throwing a spanner in the works. I was on the train on my way back from London late evening. Two Young's ladies diagonally apposite, lets just say they weren't having a conversation. No I didn't sit there a watch and walk, moved further down the train and put my headphones on and watched TV program on my iPad. Question really was did they do it because they were into each other, they got a kick out of it, or cos some of fart was sitting diagonally opposite. So my point is again we have pointed the finger at the male monster Worst I could have demonised as a sexual predator, simply cos I'd been sat on the train eating burger king . just trying to go home after a long day" no just stop - this is garbage - nobody is demonising anyone on a train minding their own business while 2 others are necking on - if your brain thinks you could potentially be demonised for this then absolutely there was something inappropriate in your behaviour or head | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
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"So for the blokes. I'd like to think you'd behave with sensitivity around a woman that you knew had been a victim of sexual harassment. You'd not send them an unsolicited dick pic, you'd not get up in their personal space right? Well it's pretty safe to say, take it that all women have experienced sexual harassment in some way or another. Said it yesterday.. maybe the issue lies in education? Yes and no. I mean I have no doubt that there is definitely a cultural part that plays a role into it, but it can easily be argued that men and women are hardwired differently. Otherwise, this behaviour would be generalised across sexes. i think thats a wee bit of a cop out - sure we have different biological make up - but if that was the driver then it wouldn’t be some men - it would literally be all men testosterone doesn’t create r*pists - society does Rapists have been a thing in every society and culture throughout history So explain to me how society creates Rapists? Especially modern day western societies where its quite obviously thought of as disgusting and unwanted behaviour by 99% of men If anything modern culture and society has curbed this behaviour Most men think this behaviour is disgusting Lionel mentioned the example of a guy wanking on a Train, every male i know would say that is un acceptablle behaviour You are cllaiming socciety creates the problem, if it did would not every male think its acceptable to whip their dick out on the train? I was the person on the train who had a dude sat in the seat to my right having a wank. Not the tube where the seats face each other, but the seats where there's rows of 2. People walked past and all that happened was mumbles and huffs. Not a soul said anything, me included. I was with my friend, we were teens. So yes, society IS part of the problem for not doing anything. Well i know i would of said something myself, and thats not me trying to be a 'White Knight' I dont thnk what you went through is a reflection of society as a whole at all. But maybe i live in a nice bubble But (Not that i think its exactly comparable) But being a Tv I have had some insight into what Women can go through with weird men while out, so maybe im just more tuned to it than most. But i know from conversations with friends we find it disgusting, same with some parts of what is labled as lad culture which in reality is more just weirdo culture and is not a refelction on most men or boys I think my 1st reaction would be shock And then I think I'd probally tell someone. It's quite jaw dropping that this actually happens." I'm sure I've said this before ref my profile name Bussy was originally Bus Wanker Bus Wanker was a term I picked up when The Inbetweeners was first on TV I honestly thought it was a daft expression aimed at people who rely on buses I assume the majority of the Forum at the time did too because 'Bussy' caught on as a nickname However, away from the forums, I was getting PM's asking me questions like 'Do you have a favourite route?' or 'Do you sit anywhere in particular?' These guys, and they were all guys, thought I was travelling round, knocking one out on a bus So, it got shortened to Bussy and the name stuck Maybe with the content of these threads, I should change it again, to disassociate myself completely? | |||
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"Not sure if this has been mentioned but I’ve only just found out that iPhone and android have built in alarms and emergency contact details - if you press the side button really fast a siren goes off and your location is shared with emergency services and your friends - how is this not widely know or have I been living under a rock!!" I didn’t know this, is it definitely true? | |||
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"Not sure if this has been mentioned but I’ve only just found out that iPhone and android have built in alarms and emergency contact details - if you press the side button really fast a siren goes off and your location is shared with emergency services and your friends - how is this not widely know or have I been living under a rock!!" I’m not sure if it’s still a thing but there used to be(is) the “ask for Angela” code in pubs and bars. That never got the publicity it deserved. | |||
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"Not sure if this has been mentioned but I’ve only just found out that iPhone and android have built in alarms and emergency contact details - if you press the side button really fast a siren goes off and your location is shared with emergency services and your friends - how is this not widely know or have I been living under a rock!! I didn’t know this, is it definitely true?" My phone has 4 side buttons  | |||
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"Not sure if this has been mentioned but I’ve only just found out that iPhone and android have built in alarms and emergency contact details - if you press the side button really fast a siren goes off and your location is shared with emergency services and your friends - how is this not widely know or have I been living under a rock!! I didn’t know this, is it definitely true? My phone has 4 side buttons "All mine did was turn the volume up | |||
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"Throwing a spanner in the works. I was on the train on my way back from London late evening. Two Young's ladies diagonally apposite, lets just say they weren't having a conversation. No I didn't sit there a watch and walk, moved further down the train and put my headphones on and watched TV program on my iPad. Question really was did they do it because they were into each other, they got a kick out of it, or cos some of fart was sitting diagonally opposite. So my point is again we have pointed the finger at the male monster no - the fact that your brain goes to the motivation for that might have been for my sexual pleasure is where you made the male wrong in this story i’m not keen on pda personally but i never look at couples kissing and think its for my benefit " That was the point, looking at the situation objectively, I don't know their motives. Personally I would like to think it was because they were a very happy couple, I always look for the best in people, would like to think it was the former not the latter. The reference was towards the quy wanking, again is not acceptable behaviour on any level, but is it acceptable for woman/women. it is only a question as said in previous post there are always diametrically opposed viewpoints. | |||
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"Not sure if this has been mentioned but I’ve only just found out that iPhone and android have built in alarms and emergency contact details - if you press the side button really fast a siren goes off and your location is shared with emergency services and your friends - how is this not widely know or have I been living under a rock!! I’m not sure if it’s still a thing but there used to be(is) the “ask for Angela” code in pubs and bars. That never got the publicity it deserved." We had posters up in the ladies toilets. Our thinking was if a bloke knew about the movement and heard the woman he was with ask, he could easily try to get her outside before we had the chance to help. | |||
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"Not read all or Part II, but a few things on Part I got my goat. It is not okay, without clear consent, for a man to sexualise a woman on fab or elsewhere. Putting a profile up on fab doesn't mean a woman want's to chased by a pack of rabid dogs for their own gain. A profile does not mean a person wishes to be sexualised. It comes down to respect, pure and simple. In a previous fab life, I earned a forum ban for challenging a guy who wrote post containing some rather derogatory language towards women. I challenged it, called him out on it, and got a ban... the mod concerned, who incidentally was a female, said while I might not agree with his language its what women have to put up with, so it was ok. So, if women allow it to continue, what hope is there? The unsolicited cock photo. Just no. Yes, some people might love them, but I firmly believe that unless requested they should never be sent. It's all banta? Maybe, but public attitudes towards racist jokes has shifted, and its time the attitude towards lewid and derogatory banta towards women shifted too. It's an educational thing. Men, stop doing it. Women, stop tolerating. Society, stop perpetuating it. " Some people have cock pics as their profile pic. I've always thought that a bit odd tbh. Agree about education. | |||
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"Not sure if this has been mentioned but I’ve only just found out that iPhone and android have built in alarms and emergency contact details - if you press the side button really fast a siren goes off and your location is shared with emergency services and your friends - how is this not widely know or have I been living under a rock!!" On android it is a setting in "Advanced Features" called SOS Mode. You need to turn it on and set it up in order to use it, but it works very well. It can take a picture using the front and rear cameras, and/or a 5 second audio clip and send it, sends your location as well (if GPS is enabled) and will message emergency services or numbers of your choice. | |||
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"There you have it. Hasn't the nation just paid out for track and trace? It could easily be applied for those wanting to use it for any other purpose.like walking home." My friends and I do track and trace me when I get into a taxi to make sure it's going in the right direction. This is what traveling as a lone female is like | |||
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"So for the blokes. I'd like to think you'd behave with sensitivity around a woman that you knew had been a victim of sexual harassment. You'd not send them an unsolicited dick pic, you'd not get up in their personal space right? Well it's pretty safe to say, take it that all women have experienced sexual harassment in some way or another. Said it yesterday.. maybe the issue lies in education? Yes and no. I mean I have no doubt that there is definitely a cultural part that plays a role into it, but it can easily be argued that men and women are hardwired differently. Otherwise, this behaviour would be generalised across sexes. i think thats a wee bit of a cop out - sure we have different biological make up - but if that was the driver then it wouldn’t be some men - it would literally be all men testosterone doesn’t create r*pists - society does Rapists have been a thing in every society and culture throughout history So explain to me how society creates Rapists? Especially modern day western societies where its quite obviously thought of as disgusting and unwanted behaviour by 99% of men If anything modern culture and society has curbed this behaviour Most men think this behaviour is disgusting Lionel mentioned the example of a guy wanking on a Train, every male i know would say that is un acceptablle behaviour You are cllaiming socciety creates the problem, if it did would not every male think its acceptable to whip their dick out on the train? I was the person on the train who had a dude sat in the seat to my right having a wank. Not the tube where the seats face each other, but the seats where there's rows of 2. People walked past and all that happened was mumbles and huffs. Not a soul said anything, me included. I was with my friend, we were teens. So yes, society IS part of the problem for not doing anything. Well i know i would of said something myself, and thats not me trying to be a 'White Knight' I dont thnk what you went through is a reflection of society as a whole at all. But maybe i live in a nice bubble But (Not that i think its exactly comparable) But being a Tv I have had some insight into what Women can go through with weird men while out, so maybe im just more tuned to it than most. But i know from conversations with friends we find it disgusting, same with some parts of what is labled as lad culture which in reality is more just weirdo culture and is not a refelction on most men or boys I think my 1st reaction would be shock And then I think I'd probally tell someone. It's quite jaw dropping that this actually happens. I'm sure I've said this before ref my profile name Bussy was originally Bus Wanker Bus Wanker was a term I picked up when The Inbetweeners was first on TV I honestly thought it was a daft expression aimed at people who rely on buses I assume the majority of the Forum at the time did too because 'Bussy' caught on as a nickname However, away from the forums, I was getting PM's asking me questions like 'Do you have a favourite route?' or 'Do you sit anywhere in particular?' These guys, and they were all guys, thought I was travelling round, knocking one out on a bus So, it got shortened to Bussy and the name stuck Maybe with the content of these threads, I should change it again, to disassociate myself completely? " 
I think that would be a wise move
I thought Jay was using it as a derogatory term for people who had to get the bus. | |||
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"So for the blokes. I'd like to think you'd behave with sensitivity around a woman that you knew had been a victim of sexual harassment. You'd not send them an unsolicited dick pic, you'd not get up in their personal space right? Well it's pretty safe to say, take it that all women have experienced sexual harassment in some way or another. Said it yesterday.. maybe the issue lies in education? Yes and no. I mean I have no doubt that there is definitely a cultural part that plays a role into it, but it can easily be argued that men and women are hardwired differently. Otherwise, this behaviour would be generalised across sexes. i think thats a wee bit of a cop out - sure we have different biological make up - but if that was the driver then it wouldn’t be some men - it would literally be all men testosterone doesn’t create r*pists - society does Rapists have been a thing in every society and culture throughout history So explain to me how society creates Rapists? Especially modern day western societies where its quite obviously thought of as disgusting and unwanted behaviour by 99% of men If anything modern culture and society has curbed this behaviour Most men think this behaviour is disgusting Lionel mentioned the example of a guy wanking on a Train, every male i know would say that is un acceptablle behaviour You are cllaiming socciety creates the problem, if it did would not every male think its acceptable to whip their dick out on the train? I was the person on the train who had a dude sat in the seat to my right having a wank. Not the tube where the seats face each other, but the seats where there's rows of 2. People walked past and all that happened was mumbles and huffs. Not a soul said anything, me included. I was with my friend, we were teens. So yes, society IS part of the problem for not doing anything. Well i know i would of said something myself, and thats not me trying to be a 'White Knight' I dont thnk what you went through is a reflection of society as a whole at all. But maybe i live in a nice bubble But (Not that i think its exactly comparable) But being a Tv I have had some insight into what Women can go through with weird men while out, so maybe im just more tuned to it than most. But i know from conversations with friends we find it disgusting, same with some parts of what is labled as lad culture which in reality is more just weirdo culture and is not a refelction on most men or boys I think my 1st reaction would be shock And then I think I'd probally tell someone. It's quite jaw dropping that this actually happens. I'm sure I've said this before ref my profile name Bussy was originally Bus Wanker Bus Wanker was a term I picked up when The Inbetweeners was first on TV I honestly thought it was a daft expression aimed at people who rely on buses I assume the majority of the Forum at the time did too because 'Bussy' caught on as a nickname However, away from the forums, I was getting PM's asking me questions like 'Do you have a favourite route?' or 'Do you sit anywhere in particular?' These guys, and they were all guys, thought I was travelling round, knocking one out on a bus So, it got shortened to Bussy and the name stuck Maybe with the content of these threads, I should change it again, to disassociate myself completely?
I think that would be a wise move
I thought Jay was using it as a derogatory term for people who had to get the bus. "Me too We're too innocent for this site Lionel  | |||
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"I haven't read the threads so this has probably been covered, but here goes anyway. "Not all men" may go on to be violent but "nearly all men" will turn a blind eye to the everyday sexism women experience. "Nearly all men", and a shockingly significant number of women, will offer up an excuse or tell women to lighten up, see it as banter and a joke, smile and get over it. Every man that has attacked me, physically and psychologically, has been a 'normal' bloke, friends of many and even loved by some of my family. Every time I have been told that I must have done something to provoke what happened to me. As the common denominator I have accepted that I MUST have done or be doing something. That is how normalised this is. If ONE man does something that makes the other 9 men uncomfortable and they do nothing about it, leaving the woman to deal with, then it is "all men" in that situation. I have had well-loved men on here troll me about domestic violence and r**e, telling me that there is no sexism and misogyny and that their wives and daughters have never experienced any unfair treatment. We protect men from the reality of what experience because it is such hard work dealing with the backlash and denial. All that before I even begin to think about how my colour layers even more onto those experiences. Or how I am left feeling when it's another woman denying my experience could have happened to me. " I'm not religious, but Amen! | |||
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"So for the blokes. I'd like to think you'd behave with sensitivity around a woman that you knew had been a victim of sexual harassment. You'd not send them an unsolicited dick pic, you'd not get up in their personal space right? Well it's pretty safe to say, take it that all women have experienced sexual harassment in some way or another. Said it yesterday.. maybe the issue lies in education? Yes and no. I mean I have no doubt that there is definitely a cultural part that plays a role into it, but it can easily be argued that men and women are hardwired differently. Otherwise, this behaviour would be generalised across sexes. i think thats a wee bit of a cop out - sure we have different biological make up - but if that was the driver then it wouldn’t be some men - it would literally be all men testosterone doesn’t create r*pists - society does Rapists have been a thing in every society and culture throughout history So explain to me how society creates Rapists? Especially modern day western societies where its quite obviously thought of as disgusting and unwanted behaviour by 99% of men If anything modern culture and society has curbed this behaviour Most men think this behaviour is disgusting Lionel mentioned the example of a guy wanking on a Train, every male i know would say that is un acceptablle behaviour You are cllaiming socciety creates the problem, if it did would not every male think its acceptable to whip their dick out on the train? I was the person on the train who had a dude sat in the seat to my right having a wank. Not the tube where the seats face each other, but the seats where there's rows of 2. People walked past and all that happened was mumbles and huffs. Not a soul said anything, me included. I was with my friend, we were teens. So yes, society IS part of the problem for not doing anything. Well i know i would of said something myself, and thats not me trying to be a 'White Knight' I dont thnk what you went through is a reflection of society as a whole at all. But maybe i live in a nice bubble But (Not that i think its exactly comparable) But being a Tv I have had some insight into what Women can go through with weird men while out, so maybe im just more tuned to it than most. But i know from conversations with friends we find it disgusting, same with some parts of what is labled as lad culture which in reality is more just weirdo culture and is not a refelction on most men or boys I think my 1st reaction would be shock And then I think I'd probally tell someone. It's quite jaw dropping that this actually happens. I'm sure I've said this before ref my profile name Bussy was originally Bus Wanker Bus Wanker was a term I picked up when The Inbetweeners was first on TV I honestly thought it was a daft expression aimed at people who rely on buses I assume the majority of the Forum at the time did too because 'Bussy' caught on as a nickname However, away from the forums, I was getting PM's asking me questions like 'Do you have a favourite route?' or 'Do you sit anywhere in particular?' These guys, and they were all guys, thought I was travelling round, knocking one out on a bus So, it got shortened to Bussy and the name stuck Maybe with the content of these threads, I should change it again, to disassociate myself completely?
I think that would be a wise move
I thought Jay was using it as a derogatory term for people who had to get the bus.
Me too
We're too innocent for this site Lionel "Its definitely an education Thank god I dont have to get the bus v often. | |||
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"Good lord. When I saw #NotAllMen trending on Twitter I was a little sad, especially reading through the tweets. *facepalm* Of course it's not all men, any sane person knows it is not ALL men. But it is ALL women. I see so many men try to derail and take away attention from such an important cause and for what? What are you achieving by telling us it is not every man? I'm so tired of hearing about it. It does nothing but devalue the concerns of women who just want to feel safe and have some sort of justice. You're just moving the topic into a completely different direction, making it more difficult for our voices, stories and concerns to be heard. How about instead of jumping on the NotAllMen trend to prove you're a good guy just DO SOMETHING instead? Treat women as an equal, call out your male friends who harass us and support women for the rest of your life. "This! All day long | |||
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"Good lord. When I saw #NotAllMen trending on Twitter I was a little sad, especially reading through the tweets. *facepalm* Of course it's not all men, any sane person knows it is not ALL men. But it is ALL women. I see so many men try to derail and take away attention from such an important cause and for what? What are you achieving by telling us it is not every man? I'm so tired of hearing about it. It does nothing but devalue the concerns of women who just want to feel safe and have some sort of justice. You're just moving the topic into a completely different direction, making it more difficult for our voices, stories and concerns to be heard. How about instead of jumping on the NotAllMen trend to prove you're a good guy just DO SOMETHING instead? Treat women as an equal, call out your male friends who harass us and support women for the rest of your life. "All of this! | |||
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"Good lord. When I saw #NotAllMen trending on Twitter I was a little sad, especially reading through the tweets. *facepalm* Of course it's not all men, any sane person knows it is not ALL men. But it is ALL women. I see so many men try to derail and take away attention from such an important cause and for what? What are you achieving by telling us it is not every man? I'm so tired of hearing about it. It does nothing but devalue the concerns of women who just want to feel safe and have some sort of justice. You're just moving the topic into a completely different direction, making it more difficult for our voices, stories and concerns to be heard. How about instead of jumping on the NotAllMen trend to prove you're a good guy just DO SOMETHING instead? Treat women as an equal, call out your male friends who harass us and support women for the rest of your life. " | |||
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"I’m 2nd dan black belt in kick boxing, G2 in Krav Maga (though I’ve not done the instructors course) plus had riot, self defence, combat training for the prison but I’m not naive or foolish enough to believe any of that would help me if I was going to be assaulted by a man. I’d give him a fucking good go I’d like to think but adrenaline has always helped me fight not fear, I don’t know how I would respond to fear. Even when fights break out in the prison it’s adrenaline that protects me and the fact there’s always more prison officers around to help. So saying women should learn self defence is bollocks because you don’t know until you’re faced with a situation if you’re going to be a fight, flight or a freezer type of person. Although I would recommend Krav Maga because there’s no rules, it’s dirty, it’s eye gauging, it’s handicapping your aggressor in the quickest way using any method in order for you to get away. " I'd say krav maga if anyone was to learn a martial arts it's that... It's not self defensive it's fighting to survive. | |||
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"Throwing a spanner in the works. I was on the train on my way back from London late evening. Two Young's ladies diagonally apposite, lets just say they weren't having a conversation. No I didn't sit there a watch and walk, moved further down the train and put my headphones on and watched TV program on my iPad. Question really was did they do it because they were into each other, they got a kick out of it, or cos some of fart was sitting diagonally opposite. So my point is again we have pointed the finger at the male monster no - the fact that your brain goes to the motivation for that might have been for my sexual pleasure is where you made the male wrong in this story i’m not keen on pda personally but i never look at couples kissing and think its for my benefit That was the point, looking at the situation objectively, I don't know their motives. Personally I would like to think it was because they were a very happy couple, I always look for the best in people, would like to think it was the former not the latter. The reference was towards the quy wanking, again is not acceptable behaviour on any level, but is it acceptable for woman/women. it is only a question as said in previous post there are always diametrically opposed viewpoints." sorry am i misunderstanding or have you just compared 2 women kissing in public to a man wanking in public ? | |||
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"Good lord. When I saw #NotAllMen trending on Twitter I was a little sad, especially reading through the tweets. *facepalm* Of course it's not all men, any sane person knows it is not ALL men. But it is ALL women. I see so many men try to derail and take away attention from such an important cause and for what? What are you achieving by telling us it is not every man? I'm so tired of hearing about it. It does nothing but devalue the concerns of women who just want to feel safe and have some sort of justice. You're just moving the topic into a completely different direction, making it more difficult for our voices, stories and concerns to be heard. How about instead of jumping on the NotAllMen trend to prove you're a good guy just DO SOMETHING instead? Treat women as an equal, call out your male friends who harass us and support women for the rest of your life. "interestingly i wonder how many of the not all men tribe thought it was unacceptable to derail BLM with all lives matter - its the same damn thing - if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem | |||
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"Throwing a spanner in the works. I was on the train on my way back from London late evening. Two Young's ladies diagonally apposite, lets just say they weren't having a conversation. No I didn't sit there a watch and walk, moved further down the train and put my headphones on and watched TV program on my iPad. Question really was did they do it because they were into each other, they got a kick out of it, or cos some of fart was sitting diagonally opposite. So my point is again we have pointed the finger at the male monster no - the fact that your brain goes to the motivation for that might have been for my sexual pleasure is where you made the male wrong in this story i’m not keen on pda personally but i never look at couples kissing and think its for my benefit That was the point, looking at the situation objectively, I don't know their motives. Personally I would like to think it was because they were a very happy couple, I always look for the best in people, would like to think it was the former not the latter. The reference was towards the quy wanking, again is not acceptable behaviour on any level, but is it acceptable for woman/women. it is only a question as said in previous post there are always diametrically opposed viewpoints. sorry am i misunderstanding or have you just compared 2 women kissing in public to a man wanking in public ? " I didn't say kissing, I said more than just chatting. I was trying to be polite and not too descriptive as to what they were doing, hence why I chose the example | |||
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"Throwing a spanner in the works. I was on the train on my way back from London late evening. Two Young's ladies diagonally apposite, lets just say they weren't having a conversation. No I didn't sit there a watch and walk, moved further down the train and put my headphones on and watched TV program on my iPad. Question really was did they do it because they were into each other, they got a kick out of it, or cos some of fart was sitting diagonally opposite. So my point is again we have pointed the finger at the male monster no - the fact that your brain goes to the motivation for that might have been for my sexual pleasure is where you made the male wrong in this story i’m not keen on pda personally but i never look at couples kissing and think its for my benefit That was the point, looking at the situation objectively, I don't know their motives. Personally I would like to think it was because they were a very happy couple, I always look for the best in people, would like to think it was the former not the latter. The reference was towards the quy wanking, again is not acceptable behaviour on any level, but is it acceptable for woman/women. it is only a question as said in previous post there are always diametrically opposed viewpoints. sorry am i misunderstanding or have you just compared 2 women kissing in public to a man wanking in public ? I didn't say kissing, I said more than just chatting. I was trying to be polite and not too descriptive as to what they were doing, hence why I chose the example " well we are having a frank open debate so pussy footing round the edges of describing what happened doesn’t do anything but cause confusion if there was sexual activity happening with the 2 women on the train then that is just as illegal as the guy wanking on the train - there is no double standard of justification for them - they are just as wrong | |||
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"Throwing a spanner in the works. I was on the train on my way back from London late evening. Two Young's ladies diagonally apposite, lets just say they weren't having a conversation. No I didn't sit there a watch and walk, moved further down the train and put my headphones on and watched TV program on my iPad. Question really was did they do it because they were into each other, they got a kick out of it, or cos some of fart was sitting diagonally opposite. So my point is again we have pointed the finger at the male monster no - the fact that your brain goes to the motivation for that might have been for my sexual pleasure is where you made the male wrong in this story i’m not keen on pda personally but i never look at couples kissing and think its for my benefit That was the point, looking at the situation objectively, I don't know their motives. Personally I would like to think it was because they were a very happy couple, I always look for the best in people, would like to think it was the former not the latter. The reference was towards the quy wanking, again is not acceptable behaviour on any level, but is it acceptable for woman/women. it is only a question as said in previous post there are always diametrically opposed viewpoints. sorry am i misunderstanding or have you just compared 2 women kissing in public to a man wanking in public ? I didn't say kissing, I said more than just chatting. I was trying to be polite and not too descriptive as to what they were doing, hence why I chose the example " How can they be kissing if they are opposite each other. Dont think people read your comment properly | |||
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"Throwing a spanner in the works. I was on the train on my way back from London late evening. Two Young's ladies diagonally apposite, lets just say they weren't having a conversation. No I didn't sit there a watch and walk, moved further down the train and put my headphones on and watched TV program on my iPad. Question really was did they do it because they were into each other, they got a kick out of it, or cos some of fart was sitting diagonally opposite. So my point is again we have pointed the finger at the male monster no - the fact that your brain goes to the motivation for that might have been for my sexual pleasure is where you made the male wrong in this story i’m not keen on pda personally but i never look at couples kissing and think its for my benefit That was the point, looking at the situation objectively, I don't know their motives. Personally I would like to think it was because they were a very happy couple, I always look for the best in people, would like to think it was the former not the latter. The reference was towards the quy wanking, again is not acceptable behaviour on any level, but is it acceptable for woman/women. it is only a question as said in previous post there are always diametrically opposed viewpoints. sorry am i misunderstanding or have you just compared 2 women kissing in public to a man wanking in public ? I didn't say kissing, I said more than just chatting. I was trying to be polite and not too descriptive as to what they were doing, hence why I chose the example well we are having a frank open debate so pussy footing round the edges of describing what happened doesn’t do anything but cause confusion if there was sexual activity happening with the 2 women on the train then that is just as illegal as the guy wanking on the train - there is no double standard of justification for them - they are just as wrong " but yes we did point the finger at the male monster and rightly so (i now realise this was the wanker and not what you thought people would say about you for being in the same carriage as the girls - sorry) we should also be pointing the finger at the women - 2 occasions of wrong don’t cancel each other out | |||
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"Throwing a spanner in the works. I was on the train on my way back from London late evening. Two Young's ladies diagonally apposite, lets just say they weren't having a conversation. No I didn't sit there a watch and walk, moved further down the train and put my headphones on and watched TV program on my iPad. Question really was did they do it because they were into each other, they got a kick out of it, or cos some of fart was sitting diagonally opposite. So my point is again we have pointed the finger at the male monster no - the fact that your brain goes to the motivation for that might have been for my sexual pleasure is where you made the male wrong in this story i’m not keen on pda personally but i never look at couples kissing and think its for my benefit That was the point, looking at the situation objectively, I don't know their motives. Personally I would like to think it was because they were a very happy couple, I always look for the best in people, would like to think it was the former not the latter. The reference was towards the quy wanking, again is not acceptable behaviour on any level, but is it acceptable for woman/women. it is only a question as said in previous post there are always diametrically opposed viewpoints. sorry am i misunderstanding or have you just compared 2 women kissing in public to a man wanking in public ? I didn't say kissing, I said more than just chatting. I was trying to be polite and not too descriptive as to what they were doing, hence why I chose the example " But the wanking thing is something a man is doing to purposely make the woman feel uncomfortable. Its specifically aimed at her. Dont think the situations are comparable tbh. | |||
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"Don't post words that are blocked on the forum please, if you find the word blocked it is best not to use it at all rather than trying to get around it" Is there a list of banned words? | |||
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"Don't post words that are blocked on the forum please, if you find the word blocked it is best not to use it at all rather than trying to get around it Is there a list of banned words? " You will find them when you try to post them, there is no list | |||
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" I was thinking it's possibly a generational thing,as I'm old enough to remember growing up in a sexist age but I'm guessing such behaviour is across all ages. Maybe it is something that should be taught or learnt at school. " Or at home. | |||
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" I was thinking it's possibly a generational thing,as I'm old enough to remember growing up in a sexist age but I'm guessing such behaviour is across all ages. Maybe it is something that should be taught or learnt at school. Or at home." True | |||
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"Don't post words that are blocked on the forum please, if you find the word blocked it is best not to use it at all rather than trying to get around it Is there a list of banned words? You will find them when you try to post them, there is no list" Oh so like clearing a minefield by walking over it Seems logical | |||
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"We also don't want discussions of serious illegal subjects like r**e, child abuse, illegal drugs because inevitably someone will post about their own crimes / experiences of crimes and we can get hauled up in court to provide evidence. We do this for fun and we don't want the hassle, sorry." With the utmost respect, and please don't ban me for this but that's actually a fairly lame cop out. The eradication of the problem begins with education, discussion, and stifling such simply perpetuates the problem. This is a sensible and timely discussion. People are learning. Allow it to continue. Don't become part of the problem. Fab has a allowed some horrible attitude towards women to persist on the forums under the banner of "women have to put up with it". Please, allow us to act responsibly and discuss the issue. It's all being handled nicely. | |||
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""Sounds like some of you ladies are afraid of your own shadow....learn self defense or a martial art" No amount of martial arts training would have deterred or prevented any of the numerous sexual assaults I've experienced over the years, the first being when I was only a toddler. Have a bloody word with yourself." | |||
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"We also don't want discussions of serious illegal subjects like r**e, child abuse, illegal drugs because inevitably someone will post about their own crimes / experiences of crimes and we can get hauled up in court to provide evidence. We do this for fun and we don't want the hassle, sorry. With the utmost respect, and please don't ban me for this but that's actually a fairly lame cop out. The eradication of the problem begins with education, discussion, and stifling such simply perpetuates the problem. This is a sensible and timely discussion. People are learning. Allow it to continue. Don't become part of the problem. Fab has a allowed some horrible attitude towards women to persist on the forums under the banner of "women have to put up with it". Please, allow us to act responsibly and discuss the issue. It's all being handled nicely." its not the mods rule its the site rule | |||
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"Not sure if this has been mentioned but I’ve only just found out that iPhone and android have built in alarms and emergency contact details - if you press the side button really fast a siren goes off and your location is shared with emergency services and your friends - how is this not widely know or have I been living under a rock!! I didn’t know this, is it definitely true?" Yes I have just found it on a Samsung anyway, it should be publicised more | |||
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"Not sure if this has been mentioned but I’ve only just found out that iPhone and android have built in alarms and emergency contact details - if you press the side button really fast a siren goes off and your location is shared with emergency services and your friends - how is this not widely know or have I been living under a rock!! I didn’t know this, is it definitely true? Yes I have just found it on a Samsung anyway, it should be publicised more" www.metro.co.uk/2021/03/12/how-to-use-emergency-sos-features-on-your-phone-14231420/ | |||
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"It's not for women to learn how to defend themselves. It's for men to learn how to behave properly around women. "That’s far far too simple. It’s not the normal man that goes out committing sexual assault, they are predators pure and simple, you cannot teach them. They already know what they are doing is wrong or if not they don’t give a toss. Castration, if you catch them, doesn’t work as they will just use a substitute, it’s not always the act they strive for but the act of degradation. There will always be murderers, rapists etc, unfortunately as we are animals we cannot all have the same lines of right and wrong and it’s a terrible shame and completely wrong that anyone has to suffer any abuse of any type. Man, Woman and Child should all be able to live in perfect harmony but it’s not a perfect world when humans occupy it. | |||
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"Don't post words that are blocked on the forum please, if you find the word blocked it is best not to use it at all rather than trying to get around it Is there a list of banned words? You will find them when you try to post them, there is no list Oh so like clearing a minefield by walking over it Seems logical" Why do people have to object to everything, I was answering you to be polite. If you don't like the rule or have feedback about it you are best doing that from the contact link | |||
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"It's not for women to learn how to defend themselves. It's for men to learn how to behave properly around women.
That’s far far too simple. It’s not the normal man that goes out committing sexual assault, they are predators pure and simple, you cannot teach them. They already know what they are doing is wrong or if not they don’t give a toss.
Castration, if you catch them, doesn’t work as they will just use a substitute, it’s not always the act they strive for but the act of degradation.
There will always be murderers, rapists etc, unfortunately as we are animals we cannot all have the same lines of right and wrong and it’s a terrible shame and completely wrong that anyone has to suffer any abuse of any type.
Man, Woman and Child should all be able to live in perfect harmony but it’s not a perfect world when humans occupy it.
"I think that's too simplistic a distinction to make. | |||
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"Not sure if this has been mentioned but I’ve only just found out that iPhone and android have built in alarms and emergency contact details - if you press the side button really fast a siren goes off and your location is shared with emergency services and your friends - how is this not widely know or have I been living under a rock!! I didn’t know this, is it definitely true? Yes I have just found it on a Samsung anyway, it should be publicised more www.metro.co.uk/2021/03/12/how-to-use-emergency-sos-features-on-your-phone-14231420/" | |||
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"Throwing a spanner in the works. I was on the train on my way back from London late evening. Two Young's ladies diagonally apposite, lets just say they weren't having a conversation. No I didn't sit there a watch and walk, moved further down the train and put my headphones on and watched TV program on my iPad. Question really was did they do it because they were into each other, they got a kick out of it, or cos some of fart was sitting diagonally opposite. So my point is again we have pointed the finger at the male monster no - the fact that your brain goes to the motivation for that might have been for my sexual pleasure is where you made the male wrong in this story i’m not keen on pda personally but i never look at couples kissing and think its for my benefit That was the point, looking at the situation objectively, I don't know their motives. Personally I would like to think it was because they were a very happy couple, I always look for the best in people, would like to think it was the former not the latter. The reference was towards the quy wanking, again is not acceptable behaviour on any level, but is it acceptable for woman/women. it is only a question as said in previous post there are always diametrically opposed viewpoints. sorry am i misunderstanding or have you just compared 2 women kissing in public to a man wanking in public ? I didn't say kissing, I said more than just chatting. I was trying to be polite and not too descriptive as to what they were doing, hence why I chose the example well we are having a frank open debate so pussy footing round the edges of describing what happened doesn’t do anything but cause confusion if there was sexual activity happening with the 2 women on the train then that is just as illegal as the guy wanking on the train - there is no double standard of justification for them - they are just as wrong but yes we did point the finger at the male monster and rightly so (i now realise this was the wanker and not what you thought people would say about you for being in the same carriage as the girls - sorry) we should also be pointing the finger at the women - 2 occasions of wrong don’t cancel each other out " No Apologies necessary simply with these debates/discussions it is often easy to point fingers either 1 way or another. In appropriate/unacceptable behaviour from both sides. I personally would love for people to go about their lives in harmony without fear or persecution on any level, women can feel safe and there demonising of people just because of a few, but attitudes need to change and pointing fingers and grabbing pitch forks is not always the way, changing attitudes at the grass roots is the only way, grow and enlightened | |||
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"It's not for women to learn how to defend themselves. It's for men to learn how to behave properly around women.
That’s far far too simple. It’s not the normal man that goes out committing sexual assault, they are predators pure and simple, you cannot teach them. They already know what they are doing is wrong or if not they don’t give a toss.
Castration, if you catch them, doesn’t work as they will just use a substitute, it’s not always the act they strive for but the act of degradation.
There will always be murderers, rapists etc, unfortunately as we are animals we cannot all have the same lines of right and wrong and it’s a terrible shame and completely wrong that anyone has to suffer any abuse of any type.
Man, Woman and Child should all be able to live in perfect harmony but it’s not a perfect world when humans occupy it.
"this is also far far too simple - read on this thread and the previous where women confirm over snd over again that they were victim to ordinary every day people telling yourself its only monsters or animals just lets you disassociate from them when its possible you either share or condone some of their behaviour at the more tame end of the spectrum and its uncomfortable to realise you could be anything like them - someone elses problem eh | |||
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"It's not for women to learn how to defend themselves. It's for men to learn how to behave properly around women.
That’s far far too simple. It’s not the normal man that goes out committing sexual assault, they are predators pure and simple, you cannot teach them. They already know what they are doing is wrong or if not they don’t give a toss.
Castration, if you catch them, doesn’t work as they will just use a substitute, it’s not always the act they strive for but the act of degradation.
There will always be murderers, rapists etc, unfortunately as we are animals we cannot all have the same lines of right and wrong and it’s a terrible shame and completely wrong that anyone has to suffer any abuse of any type.
Man, Woman and Child should all be able to live in perfect harmony but it’s not a perfect world when humans occupy it.
this is also far far too simple - read on this thread and the previous where women confirm over snd over again that they were victim to ordinary every day people
telling yourself its only monsters or animals just lets you disassociate from them when its possible you either share or condone some of their behaviour at the more tame end of the spectrum and its uncomfortable to realise you could be anything like them - someone elses problem eh "Indeed. So I'll ask this question as I think it's a really good example. Have you ever been out running and overtaken a female who was walking? If you have, then I hate to break it to you, but you more than likely made her feel extremely uncomfortable, her chest may have tightened, her eyes may have closed and her heart pounding and stopping almost simultaneously. You know you're innocently running along, all she can hear is someone running right up behind her. She has no idea if she's gonna get bumped into, bag snatched, groped or worse. She hasn't a clue of the intent, even if the intent is simply getting past her whilst exercising. | |||
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" Can we just believe women when they tell us and act accordingly? " You would hope so | |||
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"Not sure if this has been mentioned but I’ve only just found out that iPhone and android have built in alarms and emergency contact details - if you press the side button really fast a siren goes off and your location is shared with emergency services and your friends - how is this not widely know or have I been living under a rock!! On android it is a setting in "Advanced Features" called SOS Mode. You need to turn it on and set it up in order to use it, but it works very well. It can take a picture using the front and rear cameras, and/or a 5 second audio clip and send it, sends your location as well (if GPS is enabled) and will message emergency services or numbers of your choice. " On my phone once I press the side key 3 times it will automatically turn on WiFi and location, which is good as I rarely have them on. Shares my location with my emergency contacts for 24 hrs, if my location changes they get a notification every 30 mins, plus pics n sound clips. So it is definitely worth turning this feature on. | |||
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"We have been having this conversation over the last few days and Mr Ruggers admits to being surprised at what we women are talking about at the minute, not because what we are saying is true as to how we may feel when out alone but the thought that some of it he hadn't thought of. Because he doesn't feel he would be a threat to any woman he just didn't think he may be making any woman jumpy if he ran past them or walked behind them etc and I think that is what most men are thinking in defence of the all men thing..they wouldn't dream of being a threat to any woman so are going about their normal life innocently and not realising. He says he is going to be more aware to all scenarios from now on." And that's exactly it. Exactly that. Without the open discussions that have been going on over the last few days him and quote frankly everyone else would be none the wiser. I really thought I was one of the unlucky few and my experiences weren't all that common. I thought by getting jumpy, I was being a bit of a tit in all honesty. The guys feeling attacked, that's not what we're trying to do in the slightest, we're simply saying "this shit happens, this is how you can help" | |||
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"It's not for women to learn how to defend themselves. It's for men to learn how to behave properly around women.
That’s far far too simple. It’s not the normal man that goes out committing sexual assault, they are predators pure and simple, you cannot teach them. They already know what they are doing is wrong or if not they don’t give a toss.
Castration, if you catch them, doesn’t work as they will just use a substitute, it’s not always the act they strive for but the act of degradation.
There will always be murderers, rapists etc, unfortunately as we are animals we cannot all have the same lines of right and wrong and it’s a terrible shame and completely wrong that anyone has to suffer any abuse of any type.
Man, Woman and Child should all be able to live in perfect harmony but it’s not a perfect world when humans occupy it.
this is also far far too simple - read on this thread and the previous where women confirm over snd over again that they were victim to ordinary every day people
telling yourself its only monsters or animals just lets you disassociate from them when its possible you either share or condone some of their behaviour at the more tame end of the spectrum and its uncomfortable to realise you could be anything like them - someone elses problem eh "I resent your implication very very much, I am nothing like them in any way, quite frankly it’s statements like yours that are designed to throw taint at people that cause other issues too. It’s a humanitarian problem, it’s all our problem , we do not live in a utopian world where we are all completely safe from everything and for anyone to think so is completely mind numbing and stupid. To also lay any form of attack at my door you are on a lower level but still the same as the perpetrators. I want us all to live together, in harmony but I realise that cannot happen, your personal slur is proof of that. | |||
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"It's not for women to learn how to defend themselves. It's for men to learn how to behave properly around women.
That’s far far too simple. It’s not the normal man that goes out committing sexual assault, they are predators pure and simple, you cannot teach them. They already know what they are doing is wrong or if not they don’t give a toss.
Castration, if you catch them, doesn’t work as they will just use a substitute, it’s not always the act they strive for but the act of degradation.
There will always be murderers, rapists etc, unfortunately as we are animals we cannot all have the same lines of right and wrong and it’s a terrible shame and completely wrong that anyone has to suffer any abuse of any type.
Man, Woman and Child should all be able to live in perfect harmony but it’s not a perfect world when humans occupy it.
this is also far far too simple - read on this thread and the previous where women confirm over snd over again that they were victim to ordinary every day people
telling yourself its only monsters or animals just lets you disassociate from them when its possible you either share or condone some of their behaviour at the more tame end of the spectrum and its uncomfortable to realise you could be anything like them - someone elses problem eh
Indeed.
So I'll ask this question as I think it's a really good example.
Have you ever been out running and overtaken a female who was walking?
If you have, then I hate to break it to you, but you more than likely made her feel extremely uncomfortable, her chest may have tightened, her eyes may have closed and her heart pounding and stopping almost simultaneously.
You know you're innocently running along, all she can hear is someone running right up behind her. She has no idea if she's gonna get bumped into, bag snatched, groped or worse. She hasn't a clue of the intent, even if the intent is simply getting past her whilst exercising."Too simplistic, you think it’s only women that jump in that scenario, wrong, if I am running past anyone I will hop onto the toad or cross the street, as a bloke when someone does it to me I am not expecting a sexual asssult but I am aware I may be mugged. It’s a horrible thing that we have this in our world, any form of abuse is wrong, I have had 4 kids, not one of them have I ever smacked or laid a finger on, it’s a different issue than we chat about here but it’s still assault that’s happening in households every day and it sickens me to the core. | |||
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"It's not for women to learn how to defend themselves. It's for men to learn how to behave properly around women.
That’s far far too simple. It’s not the normal man that goes out committing sexual assault, they are predators pure and simple, you cannot teach them. They already know what they are doing is wrong or if not they don’t give a toss.
Castration, if you catch them, doesn’t work as they will just use a substitute, it’s not always the act they strive for but the act of degradation.
There will always be murderers, rapists etc, unfortunately as we are animals we cannot all have the same lines of right and wrong and it’s a terrible shame and completely wrong that anyone has to suffer any abuse of any type.
Man, Woman and Child should all be able to live in perfect harmony but it’s not a perfect world when humans occupy it.
this is also far far too simple - read on this thread and the previous where women confirm over snd over again that they were victim to ordinary every day people
telling yourself its only monsters or animals just lets you disassociate from them when its possible you either share or condone some of their behaviour at the more tame end of the spectrum and its uncomfortable to realise you could be anything like them - someone elses problem eh
Indeed.
So I'll ask this question as I think it's a really good example.
Have you ever been out running and overtaken a female who was walking?
If you have, then I hate to break it to you, but you more than likely made her feel extremely uncomfortable, her chest may have tightened, her eyes may have closed and her heart pounding and stopping almost simultaneously.
You know you're innocently running along, all she can hear is someone running right up behind her. She has no idea if she's gonna get bumped into, bag snatched, groped or worse. She hasn't a clue of the intent, even if the intent is simply getting past her whilst exercising."im not sure if its as good an example as you think absolutely its something women experience but its something where the male here genuinely hasn’t don’t or condoned anyone else doing anything wrong - so it had the potential to back people into a corner of self righteousness of “but nobody was wrong here” and because they are right they double down on their view there are plenty of examples of men observing their friends behaving inappropriately where there is a bad guy in the story and we just have to change the narrative of downplaying the bad behaviour- i think its an easier place to start from personally | |||
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"It's not for women to learn how to defend themselves. It's for men to learn how to behave properly around women.
That’s far far too simple. It’s not the normal man that goes out committing sexual assault, they are predators pure and simple, you cannot teach them. They already know what they are doing is wrong or if not they don’t give a toss.
Castration, if you catch them, doesn’t work as they will just use a substitute, it’s not always the act they strive for but the act of degradation.
There will always be murderers, rapists etc, unfortunately as we are animals we cannot all have the same lines of right and wrong and it’s a terrible shame and completely wrong that anyone has to suffer any abuse of any type.
Man, Woman and Child should all be able to live in perfect harmony but it’s not a perfect world when humans occupy it.
this is also far far too simple - read on this thread and the previous where women confirm over snd over again that they were victim to ordinary every day people
telling yourself its only monsters or animals just lets you disassociate from them when its possible you either share or condone some of their behaviour at the more tame end of the spectrum and its uncomfortable to realise you could be anything like them - someone elses problem eh
Indeed.
So I'll ask this question as I think it's a really good example.
Have you ever been out running and overtaken a female who was walking?
If you have, then I hate to break it to you, but you more than likely made her feel extremely uncomfortable, her chest may have tightened, her eyes may have closed and her heart pounding and stopping almost simultaneously.
You know you're innocently running along, all she can hear is someone running right up behind her. She has no idea if she's gonna get bumped into, bag snatched, groped or worse. She hasn't a clue of the intent, even if the intent is simply getting past her whilst exercising."I would point out that this is not an issue for women only, In that situation I two would have all those same thoughts. I guess the difference might be that I am more able to defend myself in such a situation (not due to my gender, but various life experiences) | |||
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"It's not for women to learn how to defend themselves. It's for men to learn how to behave properly around women.
That’s far far too simple. It’s not the normal man that goes out committing sexual assault, they are predators pure and simple, you cannot teach them. They already know what they are doing is wrong or if not they don’t give a toss.
Castration, if you catch them, doesn’t work as they will just use a substitute, it’s not always the act they strive for but the act of degradation.
There will always be murderers, rapists etc, unfortunately as we are animals we cannot all have the same lines of right and wrong and it’s a terrible shame and completely wrong that anyone has to suffer any abuse of any type.
Man, Woman and Child should all be able to live in perfect harmony but it’s not a perfect world when humans occupy it.
this is also far far too simple - read on this thread and the previous where women confirm over snd over again that they were victim to ordinary every day people
telling yourself its only monsters or animals just lets you disassociate from them when its possible you either share or condone some of their behaviour at the more tame end of the spectrum and its uncomfortable to realise you could be anything like them - someone elses problem eh
Indeed.
So I'll ask this question as I think it's a really good example.
Have you ever been out running and overtaken a female who was walking?
If you have, then I hate to break it to you, but you more than likely made her feel extremely uncomfortable, her chest may have tightened, her eyes may have closed and her heart pounding and stopping almost simultaneously.
You know you're innocently running along, all she can hear is someone running right up behind her. She has no idea if she's gonna get bumped into, bag snatched, groped or worse. She hasn't a clue of the intent, even if the intent is simply getting past her whilst exercising.
Too simplistic, you think it’s only women that jump in that scenario, wrong, if I am running past anyone I will hop onto the toad or cross the street, as a bloke when someone does it to me I am not expecting a sexual asssult but I am aware I may be mugged.
It’s a horrible thing that we have this in our world, any form of abuse is wrong, I have had 4 kids, not one of them have I ever smacked or laid a finger on, it’s a different issue than we chat about here but it’s still assault that’s happening in households every day and it sickens me to the core. "I don't think that it's only women that jump in that scenario, of course I don't but it's one that you can recognise which many many people don't even consider. Talking about it makes people aware, and then hopefully they'll do what you do and cross the road etc. It's about awareness and seeing situations from other people's perspectives. | |||
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""Sounds like some of you ladies are afraid of your own shadow....learn self defense or a martial art ......" This has boggled me. Proper fucking boggled me. " Let me know if you get low on ammo...x | |||
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"It's not for women to learn how to defend themselves. It's for men to learn how to behave properly around women.
That’s far far too simple. It’s not the normal man that goes out committing sexual assault, they are predators pure and simple, you cannot teach them. They already know what they are doing is wrong or if not they don’t give a toss.
Castration, if you catch them, doesn’t work as they will just use a substitute, it’s not always the act they strive for but the act of degradation.
There will always be murderers, rapists etc, unfortunately as we are animals we cannot all have the same lines of right and wrong and it’s a terrible shame and completely wrong that anyone has to suffer any abuse of any type.
Man, Woman and Child should all be able to live in perfect harmony but it’s not a perfect world when humans occupy it.
this is also far far too simple - read on this thread and the previous where women confirm over snd over again that they were victim to ordinary every day people
telling yourself its only monsters or animals just lets you disassociate from them when its possible you either share or condone some of their behaviour at the more tame end of the spectrum and its uncomfortable to realise you could be anything like them - someone elses problem eh
Indeed.
So I'll ask this question as I think it's a really good example.
Have you ever been out running and overtaken a female who was walking?
If you have, then I hate to break it to you, but you more than likely made her feel extremely uncomfortable, her chest may have tightened, her eyes may have closed and her heart pounding and stopping almost simultaneously.
You know you're innocently running along, all she can hear is someone running right up behind her. She has no idea if she's gonna get bumped into, bag snatched, groped or worse. She hasn't a clue of the intent, even if the intent is simply getting past her whilst exercising.
im not sure if its as good an example as you think
absolutely its something women experience but its something where the male here genuinely hasn’t don’t or condoned anyone else doing anything wrong - so it had the potential to back people into a corner of self righteousness of “but nobody was wrong here” and because they are right they double down on their view
there are plenty of examples of men observing their friends behaving inappropriately where there is a bad guy in the story and we just have to change the narrative of downplaying the bad behaviour- i think its an easier place to start from personally
"It was one example of where men are saying "I don't make women feel uncomfortable, I'd never do that" kinda thing. Just pointing out that actually, even though they're perfectly innocent they probably do but don't realise it is all. Damn right they should call things out. We all should. | |||
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"We have been having this conversation over the last few days and Mr Ruggers admits to being surprised at what we women are talking about at the minute, not because what we are saying is true as to how we may feel when out alone but the thought that some of it he hadn't thought of. Because he doesn't feel he would be a threat to any woman he just didn't think he may be making any woman jumpy if he ran past them or walked behind them etc and I think that is what most men are thinking in defence of the all men thing..they wouldn't dream of being a threat to any woman so are going about their normal life innocently and not realising. He says he is going to be more aware to all scenarios from now on." Mr KC and I discussed last night too. He says he has been acutely aware of this sort of thing (especially as a very tall guy) and makes a concerted effort to avoid such situations. For example, instead of walking behind a lone woman down a ginnel, he'd take the long way around to come home. | |||
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"It's not for women to learn how to defend themselves. It's for men to learn how to behave properly around women.
That’s far far too simple. It’s not the normal man that goes out committing sexual assault, they are predators pure and simple, you cannot teach them. They already know what they are doing is wrong or if not they don’t give a toss.
Castration, if you catch them, doesn’t work as they will just use a substitute, it’s not always the act they strive for but the act of degradation.
There will always be murderers, rapists etc, unfortunately as we are animals we cannot all have the same lines of right and wrong and it’s a terrible shame and completely wrong that anyone has to suffer any abuse of any type.
Man, Woman and Child should all be able to live in perfect harmony but it’s not a perfect world when humans occupy it.
this is also far far too simple - read on this thread and the previous where women confirm over snd over again that they were victim to ordinary every day people
telling yourself its only monsters or animals just lets you disassociate from them when its possible you either share or condone some of their behaviour at the more tame end of the spectrum and its uncomfortable to realise you could be anything like them - someone elses problem eh
I resent your implication very very much, I am nothing like them in any way, quite frankly it’s statements like yours that are designed to throw taint at people that cause other issues too.
It’s a humanitarian problem, it’s all our problem , we do not live in a utopian world where we are all completely safe from everything and for anyone to think so is completely mind numbing and stupid.
To also lay any form of attack at my door you are on a lower level but still the same as the perpetrators.
I want us all to live together, in harmony but I realise that cannot happen, your personal slur is proof of that. "youve completely misread what i said and the fact you took it as a personal slur kind of proved my point read it again - what have i accused you of doing except distancing yourself entirely from any man that has ever behaved like that and regarded them as monsters - the mere comment from me that no actually they are not all that different to you snd you have jumped on the defensive because you want to distance from them there is no personal slur or attack as you suggest but distancing from them is a cop out because it lets you say this is not my problem - they are evil i am good, they are monster i am normal - its all far too simplistic you are both men and there is a whole spectrum between your behaviour and their behaviour and plenty good and bad in between , if and when you make a sexist comment or sit back and watch a friend do it , you slide a little up that spectrum- some people just keep sliding and it might be that you are 100% innocent of any misogynistic behaviour ever in your life (i doubt that just from your inability to fully understand what i was saying before but i could be wrong) but that still does’t take you off that spectrum it just puts you at one far end of it | |||
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"It's not for women to learn how to defend themselves. It's for men to learn how to behave properly around women.
That’s far far too simple. It’s not the normal man that goes out committing sexual assault, they are predators pure and simple, you cannot teach them. They already know what they are doing is wrong or if not they don’t give a toss.
Castration, if you catch them, doesn’t work as they will just use a substitute, it’s not always the act they strive for but the act of degradation.
There will always be murderers, rapists etc, unfortunately as we are animals we cannot all have the same lines of right and wrong and it’s a terrible shame and completely wrong that anyone has to suffer any abuse of any type.
Man, Woman and Child should all be able to live in perfect harmony but it’s not a perfect world when humans occupy it.
this is also far far too simple - read on this thread and the previous where women confirm over snd over again that they were victim to ordinary every day people
telling yourself its only monsters or animals just lets you disassociate from them when its possible you either share or condone some of their behaviour at the more tame end of the spectrum and its uncomfortable to realise you could be anything like them - someone elses problem eh
Indeed.
So I'll ask this question as I think it's a really good example.
Have you ever been out running and overtaken a female who was walking?
If you have, then I hate to break it to you, but you more than likely made her feel extremely uncomfortable, her chest may have tightened, her eyes may have closed and her heart pounding and stopping almost simultaneously.
You know you're innocently running along, all she can hear is someone running right up behind her. She has no idea if she's gonna get bumped into, bag snatched, groped or worse. She hasn't a clue of the intent, even if the intent is simply getting past her whilst exercising.
im not sure if its as good an example as you think
absolutely its something women experience but its something where the male here genuinely hasn’t don’t or condoned anyone else doing anything wrong - so it had the potential to back people into a corner of self righteousness of “but nobody was wrong here” and because they are right they double down on their view
there are plenty of examples of men observing their friends behaving inappropriately where there is a bad guy in the story and we just have to change the narrative of downplaying the bad behaviour- i think its an easier place to start from personally
It was one example of where men are saying "I don't make women feel uncomfortable, I'd never do that" kinda thing. Just pointing out that actually, even though they're perfectly innocent they probably do but don't realise it is all.
Damn right they should call things out. We all should."ok fair enough - i was taking the its not me to mean i dont behave in those ways , not that just existing in the same space makes people uncomfortable | |||
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"We have been having this conversation over the last few days and Mr Ruggers admits to being surprised at what we women are talking about at the minute, not because what we are saying is true as to how we may feel when out alone but the thought that some of it he hadn't thought of. Because he doesn't feel he would be a threat to any woman he just didn't think he may be making any woman jumpy if he ran past them or walked behind them etc and I think that is what most men are thinking in defence of the all men thing..they wouldn't dream of being a threat to any woman so are going about their normal life innocently and not realising. He says he is going to be more aware to all scenarios from now on. Mr KC and I discussed last night too. He says he has been acutely aware of this sort of thing (especially as a very tall guy) and makes a concerted effort to avoid such situations. For example, instead of walking behind a lone woman down a ginnel, he'd take the long way around to come home." Serious content of this thread very much taken into account. But What the heck is a ginnel? | |||
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"What we're saying quite simply, is not all men commit assaults, but ALL men can help women feel safer." Yeah, we could. Have you asked? | |||
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"What we're saying quite simply, is not all men commit assaults, but ALL men can help women feel safer." Now that is simple and cuts to the very core. Well said without any taint on anyone. Bravo. ?? | |||
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"What we're saying quite simply, is not all men commit assaults, but ALL men can help women feel safer. Yeah, we could. Have you asked?" Is that not what's happening right now? That the sheer volume of the problem is becoming all too clear and women are speaking up saying how others can behave to make them feel safer? | |||
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"We have been having this conversation over the last few days and Mr Ruggers admits to being surprised at what we women are talking about at the minute, not because what we are saying is true as to how we may feel when out alone but the thought that some of it he hadn't thought of. Because he doesn't feel he would be a threat to any woman he just didn't think he may be making any woman jumpy if he ran past them or walked behind them etc and I think that is what most men are thinking in defence of the all men thing..they wouldn't dream of being a threat to any woman so are going about their normal life innocently and not realising. He says he is going to be more aware to all scenarios from now on. Mr KC and I discussed last night too. He says he has been acutely aware of this sort of thing (especially as a very tall guy) and makes a concerted effort to avoid such situations. For example, instead of walking behind a lone woman down a ginnel, he'd take the long way around to come home. Serious content of this thread very much taken into account. But What the heck is a ginnel? " Dictionary definition: noun NORTHERN ENGLISH a narrow passage between buildings; an alley | |||
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"Having banter between mates about Women is one thing but 99% know where the line is and won't cross it " 99% is a worryingly low percentage... | |||
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". telling yourself its only monsters or animals just lets you disassociate from them when its possible you either share or condone some of their behaviour at the more tame end of the spectrum and its uncomfortable to realise you could be anything like them - someone elses problem eh I resent your implication very very much...... youve completely misread what i said and the fact you took it as a personal slur kind of proved my point read it again - what have i accused you of doing except distancing yourself entirely from any man that has ever behaved like that and regarded them as monsters - the mere comment from me that no actually they are not all that different to you snd you have jumped on the defensive because you want to distance from them there is no personal slur or attack as you suggest and it might be that you are 100% innocent of any misogynistic behaviour ever in your life (i doubt that just from your inability to fully understand what i was saying before but i could be wrong) YES, indeed you are, what I fail to realise is why discussion is not possible for you without making it personal????? Another little antagonistic prod, to what end? I truly don’t get it!! My behavior is beyond reproach and certainly far above yours presently. but that still does’t take you off that spectrum it just puts you at one far end of it" | |||
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"Having banter between mates about Women is one thing but 99% know where the line is and won't cross it " so only 1% of men are responsible for 97% of women experiencing harassment - yeah that sounds like its probably not true, so given its not only 1% of men that know where the line is, have you considered that the banter between mates is blurring the line | |||
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"Not sure if this has been mentioned but I’ve only just found out that iPhone and android have built in alarms and emergency contact details - if you press the side button really fast a siren goes off and your location is shared with emergency services and your friends - how is this not widely know or have I been living under a rock!! On android it is a setting in "Advanced Features" called SOS Mode. You need to turn it on and set it up in order to use it, but it works very well. It can take a picture using the front and rear cameras, and/or a 5 second audio clip and send it, sends your location as well (if GPS is enabled) and will message emergency services or numbers of your choice. " I think this feature should have a thread of its own on here | |||
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"It really is a genuinely sad state of affairs. It’s too complicated a situation to even begin unpacking here, but I’m pretty sure most of us have moments in the deepest darkest recesses of memory where given a chance, we’d have corrected our behaviour with the benefit of hindsight. I do think attitudes are changing though, at least from what I can see. There’s far less emphasis on male dominance over commodified women in children’s upbringing now. The pressures of “being a REAL man” seem way less forced on younger minds. Or at least, the definition has changed. It’ll take time obviously but older attitudes are slowly disappearing. My biggest concern, and this is somewhat aimed at complicit women too, is what is now considered acceptable porn. Some stuff I see makes me very uncomfortable in how violent it is, or how forcefully degrading. Things like school-girl uniforms too, what is that a fantasy about?? On top of that, I notice the fact that the suspected murderer is a cop seems to be getting downplayed by the media and police. This is the biggest betrayal of it all." I certainly agree with you on the porn, it’s truly awful some of the things that are out there for youngsters to view, in fact on Facebook an advert came up with buy Premium OBD Oil, I have heard about it so clicked on it to be faced with 2 going at it anally !! | |||
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". telling yourself its only monsters or animals just lets you disassociate from them when its possible you either share or condone some of their behaviour at the more tame end of the spectrum and its uncomfortable to realise you could be anything like them - someone elses problem eh I resent your implication very very much...... youve completely misread what i said and the fact you took it as a personal slur kind of proved my point read it again - what have i accused you of doing except distancing yourself entirely from any man that has ever behaved like that and regarded them as monsters - the mere comment from me that no actually they are not all that different to you snd you have jumped on the defensive because you want to distance from them there is no personal slur or attack as you suggest and it might be that you are 100% innocent of any misogynistic behaviour ever in your life (i doubt that just from your inability to fully understand what i was saying before but i could be wrong) YES, indeed you are, what I fail to realise is why discussion is not possible for you without making it personal????? Another little antagonistic prod, to what end? I truly don’t get it!! My behavior is beyond reproach and certainly far above yours presently. but that still does’t take you off that spectrum it just puts you at one far end of it" i give up - you appear to be in a blind rage and making up what you see on the page in your own mind | |||
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"Having banter between mates about Women is one thing but 99% know where the line is and won't cross it so only 1% of men are responsible for 97% of women experiencing harassment - yeah that sounds like its probably not true, so given its not only 1% of men that know where the line is, have you considered that the banter between mates is blurring the line " I pulled the 99% figure out of the air, Most people Male an Female with have banter about it but most keep it between themselves, There is a huge difference in saying 'oh she looks hot' to starring at someone or wolf whistling | |||
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"What we're saying quite simply, is not all men commit assaults, but ALL men can help women feel safer. Yeah, we could. Have you asked? Is that not what's happening right now? That the sheer volume of the problem is becoming all too clear and women are speaking up saying how others can behave to make them feel safer? " Few of the things being said seem to be a request. When conversation is kicked off with something like the suggestion of a 6pm curfew for men I think people know the direction the discussion will take. For a lot of men, I think the debate has overshot awareness and landed in either apathy or defensiveness. Not great, but predictable given the tone. If I said not all women are selfish, spoilt, naive and entitled - you'd quite rightly be pissed off. You only have to think for a fraction of a second the meaning behind the statement, and me protesting that I said "not ALL women" wouldn't make a blind bit of difference. We're probably agreed that the worst offenders, the serious criminals, aren't going to listen either way. Then you have a spectrum ranging from 'lad culture', through youthful ignorance, to the resentful mistreated and 'not like other men' crowd. The men who have been raised right, know how to treat women without being used like a doormat; you don't have to worry about them. They might listen to your experiences but are going to have the confidence and intelligence to listen to their own minds anyway. The question is how to exert a positive influence on the the middle ~80%? They're not a homogeneous group that can be treated as though they're all alike. There's a risk that these things bounce back at you with unintended consequences. | |||
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