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A probably quite boring rant about a kitchen

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By *litterbabe OP   Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.

I hope you don't mind but I just needed to rant.

I know people share all kinds of things on here, and and I just wanted to get this off my chest!

Just over 18 months after budgeting and saving, I had a new kitchen fitted.

I chose the company very carefully, took lots of advice from friends family and people on here, and and everything was ordered and fitted.

The manufacturer are supply only so I hired a reputable fitter.

A month or two after fitting the finish on some of them units started chipping, I complained to the company and they sent replacement fronts.

The chipping continued and a couple of months ago I messaged them and said I didn't feel that the finish on this particular range were suitable for purpose, it chips very easily and has as a dark finish with a very bright white basecoat which means any chips show really clearly.

They asked if we would agree to an inspection by what they said was an independent inspection service. We agreed to the inspection believing it to be independent, and the inspection found that the fault was with us for misuse, which we of course, do not feel is the case, as we treat the kitchen with lots of respect.

Now we are are struggling with the company as they are only prepared to offers a discount on replacement fronts and we actually feel that we should change the finish of the units as they are not suitable.

I have found some other people whom have left reviews in different places saying they have had similar problems.

I now have also researched the inspection company and the furniture ombudsman and found that they they are not at all independent, (Google reviews and reviews in other places).

It is extremely annoying and I think it's going to end up with me taking them to small claims court. The whole situation is really frustrating as this was supposed to be my dream kitchen and now it is obviously quite upsetting, plus the company (who have great reviews for their other kitchens styles, just not this finish) are refusing to help in a significant manner.

They have a guarantee for all their kitchens, but it doesn't cover wear and tear etc.

We feel that this is far more than wear and tear though, this is unsuitable for purpose.

They have said to us that the report is independent and will stand up in court.

If it goes to court I will show evidence that it isn't independent, and I will also get a separate report.

Ann idea I had was to just change the cupboard and drawer fronts to the gloss finish, but after discussing this with their customer service, they said they didn't feel it would match because it would be too different and too much of a contrast with the matte finish that we have, and would not match therefore we would need to have all all plinth, cornice and and end boards changed as well. Basically the whole kitchen including worktops taken out and refitted around the existing carcasses.

One other thing they have offered us today is to have their paint specialist travel to us to repair on-site whatever he can, I feel that is a reasonable option but I am sure that the finish will continue to chip as it really is very brittle.

Thank you for listening and I do apologise I just needed to rant.

I doubt anybody would have any help or advice as it is all too frustrating and I feel I have explored most avenues!

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By *anther81Man
over a year ago

Drogheda

Can see why you are annoyed. Sounds like you have them admitting fault if they are willing to come out and re paint.

Reckon stay strong and request replacement.

Only my view and know you only wanted a good rant.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is a very clear and well written rant OP.

Well done you.

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By *iger4uWoman
over a year ago

In my happy place


"Can see why you are annoyed. Sounds like you have them admitting fault if they are willing to come out and re paint.

Reckon stay strong and request replacement.

Only my view and know you only wanted a good rant."

Did you pay by credit card? If so, youre covered by section 75.

Anything over £100 is covered. I always do it then pay the bill off straight away.

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By *ady LickWoman
over a year ago

Northampton Somewhere

I remember you getting so excited about this, you must be soooo disappointed. Any reputable company would sort this out for you especially as after such a short time it is no way 'wear and tear'.

I'm sure someone will come along soon with some great advice, all I will say is don't give up.

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By *litterbabe OP   Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.

Thank you for your replies.

I was very excited, it was a real big deal to me and it is such a shame to be dealing with this frustration.

We did pay by credit card, and have looked into a section 75 chargeback.

It might be a possible route that we take, although a chargeback is not simple as it is still their word against us and they have have the inspection agency report.

We would obviously get a report also, but it would be their word against ours.

If we have to get a report though it's still might be a good avenue to explore as if the chargeback didn't work we could use the report in court.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

I'd feel exactly the same OP. It's a really shoddy way to treat a customer. I don't know if there's anything like Trading Standards that could evaluate and provide support and advice.

I'm guessing that chargeback is better done as early as possible.

I'd be very clear about what I would be expecting. The paint sounds like a possible bodge and doesn't clear the underlying cause of the problem, which is the product not being fit for purpose and meeting your reasonable expectations for it.

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By *litterbabe OP   Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.

I am considering going to trading standards, from what I understand about their role they won't help with my actual problem but they want to be aware of companies that aren't trading in a appropriate manner.

I feel as well as them being aware of the kitchen company, it's important that they they have information showing that both the inspection agency and furniture ombudsman, (which incidentally seem to actually occupy the same offices), are not independent, and that has been stated many times on trustpilot and Google reviews.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I hope you don't mind but I just needed to rant.

I know people share all kinds of things on here, and and I just wanted to get this off my chest!

Just over 18 months after budgeting and saving, I had a new kitchen fitted.

I chose the company very carefully, took lots of advice from friends family and people on here, and and everything was ordered and fitted.

The manufacturer are supply only so I hired a reputable fitter.

A month or two after fitting the finish on some of them units started chipping, I complained to the company and they sent replacement fronts.

The chipping continued and a couple of months ago I messaged them and said I didn't feel that the finish on this particular range were suitable for purpose, it chips very easily and has as a dark finish with a very bright white basecoat which means any chips show really clearly.

They asked if we would agree to an inspection by what they said was an independent inspection service. We agreed to the inspection believing it to be independent, and the inspection found that the fault was with us for misuse, which we of course, do not feel is the case, as we treat the kitchen with lots of respect.

Now we are are struggling with the company as they are only prepared to offers a discount on replacement fronts and we actually feel that we should change the finish of the units as they are not suitable.

I have found some other people whom have left reviews in different places saying they have had similar problems.

I now have also researched the inspection company and the furniture ombudsman and found that they they are not at all independent, (Google reviews and reviews in other places).

It is extremely annoying and I think it's going to end up with me taking them to small claims court. The whole situation is really frustrating as this was supposed to be my dream kitchen and now it is obviously quite upsetting, plus the company (who have great reviews for their other kitchens styles, just not this finish) are refusing to help in a significant manner.

They have a guarantee for all their kitchens, but it doesn't cover wear and tear etc.

We feel that this is far more than wear and tear though, this is unsuitable for purpose.

They have said to us that the report is independent and will stand up in court.

If it goes to court I will show evidence that it isn't independent, and I will also get a separate report.

Ann idea I had was to just change the cupboard and drawer fronts to the gloss finish, but after discussing this with their customer service, they said they didn't feel it would match because it would be too different and too much of a contrast with the matte finish that we have, and would not match therefore we would need to have all all plinth, cornice and and end boards changed as well. Basically the whole kitchen including worktops taken out and refitted around the existing carcasses.

One other thing they have offered us today is to have their paint specialist travel to us to repair on-site whatever he can, I feel that is a reasonable option but I am sure that the finish will continue to chip as it really is very brittle.

Thank you for listening and I do apologise I just needed to rant.

I doubt anybody would have any help or advice as it is all too frustrating and I feel I have explored most avenues!

"

Any new install especially a large one such as yours will be covered via a warranty as standard, continue to fight it, if you believe it was not caused by your self then it can be resolved.

I totally get your concerns I gather it’s likely to be a substantial amount of money you have spent as well also? To get the feeling they’ve taken your money and ran?

I run a renovations company my self and this was a common thread when I first started, any reputable company will bend over backwards to rectify this for you,

One thing I will say as I have the same problem, with covid I have severely limited numbers to attend what I’d call remedial works, this could well be the case with the company you have used.

As I know with mine, the only people allowed in the buisness is the installs team, but the result of that is we have next to no staff in the building on the phones which is generally not there department so it is extremely tough atm

Hope you get sorted

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

Once you’ve followed all the necessary routes with the company, you could take it to a trading standards ombudsman if not satisfied with the outcome.

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By *litterbabe OP   Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.

Thank you, I do feel that I will persue it quite firmly at the moment, as it does seem such an injustice.

The lady on the phone even said that if I was to drop a fork on a car it would scratch and so that would be the same effect as dropping a fork on a kitchen door, she said both of those would count as impact damage.

I don't really agree, obviously if you drop something on a car it might scratch, but I feel a kitchen should be able to with stand and occasional item of cutlery dropping against it or etc.

(I don't know that I have dropped a fork, but just general use for less than a year has made multiple chips on the many of the units.)

She also said that all the kitchens come with touch up paint for chips, which is correct, (I do have that).

She said because I haven't touched the chips up when the damage was first done then the chips get worse, I agreed with her, but explained I didn't want to touch up the chips before we have come to a resolution as any inspection would not be able to see the true damage.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Thank you, I do feel that I will persue it quite firmly at the moment, as it does seem such an injustice.

The lady on the phone even said that if I was to drop a fork on a car it would scratch and so that would be the same effect as dropping a fork on a kitchen door, she said both of those would count as impact damage.

I don't really agree, obviously if you drop something on a car it might scratch, but I feel a kitchen should be able to with stand and occasional item of cutlery dropping against it or etc.

(I don't know that I have dropped a fork, but just general use for less than a year has made multiple chips on the many of the units.)

She also said that all the kitchens come with touch up paint for chips, which is correct, (I do have that).

She said because I haven't touched the chips up when the damage was first done then the chips get worse, I agreed with her, but explained I didn't want to touch up the chips before we have come to a resolution as any inspection would not be able to see the true damage.

"

You should never accept any compromise, argument there is there trying to keep you happy with a substandard product, stick to your guns, I know these places will have good will with manufacturers so shouldn’t be no issues in terms of supplying you with what you uve asked for, shame I don’t do kitchens I’d of fixed your issues for you for some general good will lol

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By *litterbabe OP   Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.


"Thank you, I do feel that I will persue it quite firmly at the moment, as it does seem such an injustice.

The lady on the phone even said that if I was to drop a fork on a car it would scratch and so that would be the same effect as dropping a fork on a kitchen door, she said both of those would count as impact damage.

I don't really agree, obviously if you drop something on a car it might scratch, but I feel a kitchen should be able to with stand and occasional item of cutlery dropping against it or etc.

(I don't know that I have dropped a fork, but just general use for less than a year has made multiple chips on the many of the units.)

She also said that all the kitchens come with touch up paint for chips, which is correct, (I do have that).

She said because I haven't touched the chips up when the damage was first done then the chips get worse, I agreed with her, but explained I didn't want to touch up the chips before we have come to a resolution as any inspection would not be able to see the true damage.

You should never accept any compromise, argument there is there trying to keep you happy with a substandard product, stick to your guns, I know these places will have good will with manufacturers so shouldn’t be no issues in terms of supplying you with what you uve asked for, shame I don’t do kitchens I’d of fixed your issues for you for some general good will lol "

Thank you, it is all turning into a bit of a mess to be honest.

It looks like the only way to get the kitchen to the standard it should be is to totally have a new kitchen fitted with a suitable finish, that means the whole kitchen coming out including splashbacks and all units, etc.at this stage I think I would just like a full refund for the kitchen, and I would accept that I would forfeit the money for the fitting, and then I would just start again.

I also don't see how it can possibly be be correct but the government approved ombudsman, that trading standards recommend on their site, has multiple reviews on Google and trustpilot as being completely biased, and people claim, as they are paid for by the manufacturer or supplier seem to always vote in their favour.

(They also share premises with the company that was supposed to have provided an unbiased review).

Feel free to have a look at the Furniture and home improvement Ombudsman, on both Google reviews and trustpilot to backup what I am saying.

(Also accessible directly from a link on the trading standards website).

That seems crazy unfair. I feel like I'm unravelling something worth going to watchudog with now.

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By *litterbabe OP   Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.

Watchdog*

(If that is still a thing)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Thank you, I do feel that I will persue it quite firmly at the moment, as it does seem such an injustice.

The lady on the phone even said that if I was to drop a fork on a car it would scratch and so that would be the same effect as dropping a fork on a kitchen door, she said both of those would count as impact damage.

I don't really agree, obviously if you drop something on a car it might scratch, but I feel a kitchen should be able to with stand and occasional item of cutlery dropping against it or etc.

(I don't know that I have dropped a fork, but just general use for less than a year has made multiple chips on the many of the units.)

She also said that all the kitchens come with touch up paint for chips, which is correct, (I do have that).

She said because I haven't touched the chips up when the damage was first done then the chips get worse, I agreed with her, but explained I didn't want to touch up the chips before we have come to a resolution as any inspection would not be able to see the true damage.

You should never accept any compromise, argument there is there trying to keep you happy with a substandard product, stick to your guns, I know these places will have good will with manufacturers so shouldn’t be no issues in terms of supplying you with what you uve asked for, shame I don’t do kitchens I’d of fixed your issues for you for some general good will lol

Thank you, it is all turning into a bit of a mess to be honest.

It looks like the only way to get the kitchen to the standard it should be is to totally have a new kitchen fitted with a suitable finish, that means the whole kitchen coming out including splashbacks and all units, etc.at this stage I think I would just like a full refund for the kitchen, and I would accept that I would forfeit the money for the fitting, and then I would just start again.

I also don't see how it can possibly be be correct but the government approved ombudsman, that trading standards recommend on their site, has multiple reviews on Google and trustpilot as being completely biased, and people claim, as they are paid for by the manufacturer or supplier seem to always vote in their favour.

(They also share premises with the company that was supposed to have provided an unbiased review).

Feel free to have a look at the Furniture and home improvement Ombudsman, on both Google reviews and trustpilot to backup what I am saying.

(Also accessible directly from a link on the trading standards website).

That seems crazy unfair. I feel like I'm unravelling something worth going to watchudog with now."

Oh believe me I’m very up to date to the practices at the moment, one thing I will say and honestly it’s not a fob off, like me for example the only department of my company allowed to work is the installs team, that been said it means my team are fielding calls there not normally privy too, it could be a similar situation, get pictures sent in, ask for proof of o.c (order clearing) basically they should be a paper trail of staff checking the job off, especially if it is a 3rd party manufacturer, worse thing normally the issues tend to be trivial and a quick fix but circumstances it is hard believe me, but I’m very much on the basis of get it right first time, I only collect payment upon completion of works x

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By *litterbabe OP   Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.

Thank you for your advice and messages offering help and support, much appreciated

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I used to fit kitchens and bathrooms and some ranges have lots of problems.

Write to them and tell them you’re not happy with their resolutions so far and that you want either a change of range or you will be going to the ombudsman.

Write to the ombudsman too anyway.

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By *litterbabe OP   Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.


"I used to fit kitchens and bathrooms and some ranges have lots of problems.

Write to them and tell them you’re not happy with their resolutions so far and that you want either a change of range or you will be going to the ombudsman.

Write to the ombudsman too anyway. "

Thank you Rachel and I will take your advice.

I am really c

Concerned though as when I have a look at the furniture ombudsman on trustpilot and Google reviews, the reviews are terrible and they are said to ge biased in favour of the manufacturers who pay them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I used to fit kitchens and bathrooms and some ranges have lots of problems.

Write to them and tell them you’re not happy with their resolutions so far and that you want either a change of range or you will be going to the ombudsman.

Write to the ombudsman too anyway.

Thank you Rachel and I will take your advice.

I am really c

Concerned though as when I have a look at the furniture ombudsman on trustpilot and Google reviews, the reviews are terrible and they are said to ge biased in favour of the manufacturers who pay them."

I’ve seen them side with customers several times. I fitted a as a subcontractor for several big retailers and heard about issues with product and fitting.

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By *iamondCougarWoman
over a year ago

Norfuck! / Lincolnshire

A kitchen is the heart of the home and focal point nowadays. It’s where most of us spend our time. If I had a new kitchen I would expect to get around 10 years out of it and reasonable wear and tear.

I would contact the ombudsman and also trading standards. They may have other complaints already in. I’d really push on this one .... you clearly haven’t got what you paid for and nor does it meet your expectation.

Any reputable company would look to reasonably resolve to protect their reputation.

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By *litterbabe OP   Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.

Thank you, I do feel that I will take it further as I am really upset by the quality and also their attitude when it comes to them fulfilled what we feel is their obligation.

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By *litterbabe OP   Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.


"A kitchen is the heart of the home and focal point nowadays. It’s where most of us spend our time. If I had a new kitchen I would expect to get around 10 years out of it and reasonable wear and tear.

I would contact the ombudsman and also trading standards. They may have other complaints already in. I’d really push on this one .... you clearly haven’t got what you paid for and nor does it meet your expectation.

Any reputable company would look to reasonably resolve to protect their reputation. "

They sent out a representative from Fira, which was supposed to be an independent furniture specialist, while inspecting the kitchen they they let us think that they felt we were in the right, but the report stated that there was no manufacturing fault.

we actually agree there was a manufacturing fault, we feel more that the product is not suitable for purpose which is not technically a manufacturing fold it is a quality problem.

The trading standards recommended furniture ombudsman shares premises with the same inspection company, and both these companies have very bad reviews on trustpilot and Google reviews.

We will still be using all available channels though.

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By *iamondCougarWoman
over a year ago

Norfuck! / Lincolnshire


"A kitchen is the heart of the home and focal point nowadays. It’s where most of us spend our time. If I had a new kitchen I would expect to get around 10 years out of it and reasonable wear and tear.

I would contact the ombudsman and also trading standards. They may have other complaints already in. I’d really push on this one .... you clearly haven’t got what you paid for and nor does it meet your expectation.

Any reputable company would look to reasonably resolve to protect their reputation.

They sent out a representative from Fira, which was supposed to be an independent furniture specialist, while inspecting the kitchen they they let us think that they felt we were in the right, but the report stated that there was no manufacturing fault.

we actually agree there was a manufacturing fault, we feel more that the product is not suitable for purpose which is not technically a manufacturing fold it is a quality problem.

The trading standards recommended furniture ombudsman shares premises with the same inspection company, and both these companies have very bad reviews on trustpilot and Google reviews.

We will still be using all available channels though."

I hope you get it resolved

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Thats terrible. Ive had similar with homebase and magnet kitchens in my rentals, they also offered a paint specialist which turned out rubbish.

Ive had them all ripped out after lengthy battles in court, they were utter crap. Ive had wrens fitted in all inc my own which have been amazing, even one of my own i damaged, after speaking to wren customer service they sent a new front out foc

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I hope you don't mind but I just needed to rant.

I know people share all kinds of things on here, and and I just wanted to get this off my chest!

Just over 18 months after budgeting and saving, I had a new kitchen fitted.

I chose the company very carefully, took lots of advice from friends family and people on here, and and everything was ordered and fitted.

The manufacturer are supply only so I hired a reputable fitter.

A month or two after fitting the finish on some of them units started chipping, I complained to the company and they sent replacement fronts.

The chipping continued and a couple of months ago I messaged them and said I didn't feel that the finish on this particular range were suitable for purpose, it chips very easily and has as a dark finish with a very bright white basecoat which means any chips show really clearly.

They asked if we would agree to an inspection by what they said was an independent inspection service. We agreed to the inspection believing it to be independent, and the inspection found that the fault was with us for misuse, which we of course, do not feel is the case, as we treat the kitchen with lots of respect.

Now we are are struggling with the company as they are only prepared to offers a discount on replacement fronts and we actually feel that we should change the finish of the units as they are not suitable.

I have found some other people whom have left reviews in different places saying they have had similar problems.

I now have also researched the inspection company and the furniture ombudsman and found that they they are not at all independent, (Google reviews and reviews in other places).

It is extremely annoying and I think it's going to end up with me taking them to small claims court. The whole situation is really frustrating as this was supposed to be my dream kitchen and now it is obviously quite upsetting, plus the company (who have great reviews for their other kitchens styles, just not this finish) are refusing to help in a significant manner.

They have a guarantee for all their kitchens, but it doesn't cover wear and tear etc.

We feel that this is far more than wear and tear though, this is unsuitable for purpose.

They have said to us that the report is independent and will stand up in court.

If it goes to court I will show evidence that it isn't independent, and I will also get a separate report.

Ann idea I had was to just change the cupboard and drawer fronts to the gloss finish, but after discussing this with their customer service, they said they didn't feel it would match because it would be too different and too much of a contrast with the matte finish that we have, and would not match therefore we would need to have all all plinth, cornice and and end boards changed as well. Basically the whole kitchen including worktops taken out and refitted around the existing carcasses.

One other thing they have offered us today is to have their paint specialist travel to us to repair on-site whatever he can, I feel that is a reasonable option but I am sure that the finish will continue to chip as it really is very brittle.

Thank you for listening and I do apologise I just needed to rant.

I doubt anybody would have any help or advice as it is all too frustrating and I feel I have explored most avenues!

"

Stick with it, keep complaining. Flood them with photos, ask for matter to be taken higher, get a solicitor to draft a letter - make sure they know you are going to take legal action. Get independent advice yourself.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm bathroom and kitchen fitter, and if they agree to send someone out to repair the chips, and put it back to near new. Have them do that, then get the to put a matte paint protection over it, some of the are a simple spray.

Sorry to hear this is happening to you.

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By *ickJMan
over a year ago

Hemel Hempstead

In what way, specifically, do the suppliers consider that you've caused damage by misuse? As a consumer, you have the right to expect goods to be of "reasonable quality". As a reasonable person, I'd expect a kitchen unit to be able to withstand general kitchen use for at least 5 years without starting to look tired.

I don't think it's unreasonable to drop the odd fork or spoon on the unit, trap a spatula in the draw and slam the odd door a few times without the finish starting to chip off all over the place.

How long would they expect a finish to last in normal use? My kitchen is at least 15 years old and apart from where someone spilt hair dye on it, still looks good.

If the supplier aren't helpful, then it's worth looking to the ombudsman, or asking Citizens' Advice. You could even put in a small claim through the court (or maybe just threaten to do so to see if they help with replacement) There's a money saving expert page on this (which also suggests going to the ombudsman first).

I hope it all works out for you.

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By *iaisonseekerMan
over a year ago

Liverpool

Court action will take ages with the backlog at the moment but might give you some leverage to negotiate to get (some of) your money back.

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By *ersey GirlCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

Can you not get your own independent company to inspect it

R

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By *litterbabe OP   Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.

Thank you everybody there is some interesting and helpful suggestions on here that I will be following up, including getting my own independent inspection, and contacting the onbudsman and various advice and support companies.

As a last resort I definitely will be looking at small claims court.

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By *emini ManMan
over a year ago

There and to the left a bit

Don't know if they're still offering it under current circumstances but a lot of solicitors used to offer a free hour's consultation with no obligation, which may be worth considering getting as it will give you an outline understanding of where you stand legally and may even give you some idea of the approach to take if they think you have a case.

Failing that the CAB will do similar.

Good luck with it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm bathroom and kitchen fitter, and if they agree to send someone out to repair the chips, and put it back to near new. Have them do that, then get the to put a matte paint protection over it, some of the are a simple spray.

Sorry to hear this is happening to you."

That’s what I would do too. Use Frenchic al fresco paint and their finishing coat.

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By *litterbabe OP   Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.


"Don't know if they're still offering it under current circumstances but a lot of solicitors used to offer a free hour's consultation with no obligation, which may be worth considering getting as it will give you an outline understanding of where you stand legally and may even give you some idea of the approach to take if they think you have a case.

Failing that the CAB will do similar.

Good luck with it."

Thank you, that is a good idea, that I wasn't aware of.

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By *ermite12ukMan
over a year ago

Solihull and Brentwood


"The lady on the phone even said that if I was to drop a fork on a car it would scratch and so that would be the same effect as dropping a fork on a kitchen door, she said both of those would count as impact damage.

I don't really agree, obviously if you drop something on a car it might scratch, but I feel a kitchen should be able to with stand and occasional item of cutlery dropping against it or etc.

(I don't know that I have dropped a fork, but just general use for less than a year has made multiple chips on the many of the units.)"

Nope: If you drop a fork on a car, depending upon the height it may leave impact marks. But modern cars nowadays, such as BMW's are extremely difficult to key. (Meaning because of the elecrocoated finish on the sheet steel, it's difficult to break through the top surface and produce a scratch.)

I don't know a lot about painting wood, but I'm wondering if they've missed off the top coat of laquer perhaps? That is similar in function, as electroplating the paint, on most modern vehicles?

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By *litterbabe OP   Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.


"

I don't know a lot about painting wood, but I'm wondering if they've missed off the top coat of laquer perhaps? That is similar in function, as electroplating the paint, on most modern vehicles?"

That is really interesting and sounds possible. I wonder how I would be able to check though.

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By *ermite12ukMan
over a year ago

Solihull and Brentwood


"

I don't know a lot about painting wood, but I'm wondering if they've missed off the top coat of laquer perhaps? That is similar in function, as electroplating the paint, on most modern vehicles?

That is really interesting and sounds possible. I wonder how I would be able to check though."

Your kitchen assessor would be able to tell. Probably simply by dragging a coin across a surface of the wood. If it hasn't been lacquered, it will mark the paint.

Google: What's the difference between varnish and lacquer?

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By *litterbabe OP   Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.


"

I don't know a lot about painting wood, but I'm wondering if they've missed off the top coat of laquer perhaps? That is similar in function, as electroplating the paint, on most modern vehicles?

That is really interesting and sounds possible. I wonder how I would be able to check though.

Your kitchen assessor would be able to tell. Probably simply by dragging a coin across a surface of the wood. If it hasn't been lacquered, it will mark the paint.

Google: What's the difference between varnish and lacquer?"

I will, thank you

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By *ermite12ukMan
over a year ago

Solihull and Brentwood

No probs and fingers crossed you get everything sorted.

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By *ig1gaz1Man
over a year ago

bradford

Probably not something that you want to know.

But no kitchen or units are fit for purpose including bedroom units.

No offence here its all made out of chipboard crap with a coating on it and thats it.

I have noted that you havent stated what sort of coating/covering that you picked for your kitchen.

You state its chiped on the units

Has it chiped at the door / drawer tops or has it chiped on the fronts itself.

Knee height or eye level trick question you will get asked about

Male present female and do you have children sorry expect these questions.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What would the value of the chipped items be? if that much of a problem and under £5k i'd just take them to small claims court. Get your own inspection done, take pictures etc and psy the £40, file a summons against them at their registered address. Give them 7 days notice you're going to file then just do it. It will inconvenience you but it will inconvenience them too.

The district judge will decide what's fair. The product must be fit for purpose. print out other reviews and the supplier's terms. Maybe get the view of the fitter too.

Sometimes products aren't all they are claimed to be. That's a lot of the stress of a new kitchen. We're arguing over a £1k splashback under section 75 but a bit different because cached web pages showed the company changed their terms to suit their argument. They could not be more over a barrel so we're just leaving it to barclaycard but will resort to court if that fails.

No honour, morals or principles in business these days. All about grabbing your money!

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By *litterbabe OP   Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.

Thanks for the replies.

The chips are at at every level, tops and fronts of drawers, tops middles bottoms of cupboard doors. Mostly on the edges but plenty on other places.

The doors are made from

Lacquered MDF, 22mm thick, smooth painted finish.

On their website they say that they are highly durable lacquer.

we don't have any young children in the house and we have three cats, no dogs.

"Knee height or eye level trick question you will get asked about"

Can you explain more about it being a trick question?

it is likely we will end up taking them to small claims court although the fees for that are I think £450 plus I will need to spend probably another hundred or more on the inspection that I will need.

It is what it is, I believe we have a good case, I'm just surprised at their attitude.

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By *ictoriaathomeTV/TS
over a year ago

Huddersfield

In my business we regularly have the need for sprayed finishes to our products. These items are used on a number of events a d are loaded and unloaded 4 times every time they are sent out and returned.

I pay a lot for spraying as it needs to be tough to withstand our business.

I'm guessing it's down to a number of things, quality of spray paint, undercoat and top finish. Plus proper drying time between coats, dust free environments, skilled work Forse etc.

It sounds to me as though the undercoat and spray paint will be of a lesser quality, cheaper.

Hard to prove but that's my guess.

If it's not done correct in all the stages it will chip off.

Hope this helps to understand what's gone on.

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By *litterbabe OP   Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.


"In my business we regularly have the need for sprayed finishes to our products. These items are used on a number of events a d are loaded and unloaded 4 times every time they are sent out and returned.

I pay a lot for spraying as it needs to be tough to withstand our business.

I'm guessing it's down to a number of things, quality of spray paint, undercoat and top finish. Plus proper drying time between coats, dust free environments, skilled work Forse etc.

It sounds to me as though the undercoat and spray paint will be of a lesser quality, cheaper.

Hard to prove but that's my guess.

If it's not done correct in all the stages it will chip off.

Hope this helps to understand what's gone on. "

Thank you, it is very helpful

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By *ussD1Man
over a year ago

Gloucester

Don’t take the argument about the car paint either. Car paint withstands stones, bugs and all sorts striking it at (coughs) 70 mph they are taking bollocks. Do it all. Ombudsman, trading standards, write a formal complaint setting out why their product and after sales is not in line with your consumer rights that you are going to employ a solicitor and claim for a completely renewed kitchen whilst suing for damages, find a consumer rights charity to take advice from, citizens advice wherever. Use social media to share pics and tag them in regards appalling customer service and unfair bias. Go on the offensive but never be offensive just factual. They rely on apathy and meekness, If they stall and procrastinate you’ll give up. DECLARE WAR ! But in a professional and nice way. Tell them what you intend to do and set out to them that they have left you no choice. Consumers have a great deal

Of power if they choose to use it, yes it takes time but surely it’s worth it? Right now any poor press or hassle that may see a further dip in their income will worry them.

Get a quote for your kitchen to be completely ripped out and replaced and say that’s your starting point. The kitchen they provided is not fit for purpose and you’ll be suing them for its complete replacement.

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By *ealthy_and_HungMan
over a year ago

Princes Risborough, Luasanne, Alderney

is this a Howdens kitchen?

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By *litterbabe OP   Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.


"is this a Howdens kitchen?"

No it's not Howdens, it's from DIY Kitchens based in Pontifract, (also known as Ultima)

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By *litterbabe OP   Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.

A little update, we agreed to see the paint specialist, although we weren't confident it would solve the problem permanently, they said they were unable to confirm a booking till April and now they are saying it would be May at the earliest when they could even look at booking a time for them to visit, so we have said we really don't feel we can wait any longer for the paint repair.

It's unfortunately looking like we are going to have to issue small claims proceedings.

Such a shame that it has gone this way.

I have also never dealt with any kind of claim.

I don't feel they should be able to offer a substandard kitchen.

So we shall see what happens.

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By *nnCeeWoman
over a year ago

East of Eden, West of Hell

Just read the full post...so sorry to hear of your issues. I'm afraid I have nothing helpful to add, other than stay strong, hold your ground and keep fighting until you get the outcome you want and deserve x

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By *litterbabe OP   Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.


"Just read the full post...so sorry to hear of your issues. I'm afraid I have nothing helpful to add, other than stay strong, hold your ground and keep fighting until you get the outcome you want and deserve x"

Thank you, it is a difficult situation but but I what I feel is right.

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By *litterbabe OP   Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.

So just to keep this updated it looks like unfortunately now I am going to have to take them to small claims court.

I've never done anything like this before, but like they say, "there is always a first time"

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By *ictoriaathomeTV/TS
over a year ago

Huddersfield

Take it all the way, too many firms pass off crap work without the fear of reprisals.

Citizens advice could help you with the process. Only problem is you may need to get other 'experts' in to give thir verdict.

Good luck with this, keep us posted!

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By *litterbabe OP   Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.


"Take it all the way, too many firms pass off crap work without the fear of reprisals.

Citizens advice could help you with the process. Only problem is you may need to get other 'experts' in to give thir verdict.

Good luck with this, keep us posted! "

I will need to get a full report done, I do feel like it's hard going against a big company but it just is really unfair how they expect us to just live with it when it clearly is not suitable.

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By *r and mrs sanddancerCouple
over a year ago

BOLDON COLLIERY


"Take it all the way, too many firms pass off crap work without the fear of reprisals.

Citizens advice could help you with the process. Only problem is you may need to get other 'experts' in to give thir verdict.

Good luck with this, keep us posted!

I will need to get a full report done, I do feel like it's hard going against a big company but it just is really unfair how they expect us to just live with it when it clearly is not suitable."

Get your own report done then list all the faults with photos. list all your concerns and send them an E mail stating this is your case you are taking to the Small Clams Court. the small clams court is not expensive and you can do it all yourself, no need for a legal representative. Often the threat of a court case will change their minds as to what they will offer to do to sort it out.

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By *litterbabe OP   Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.

I have already been in communication with them as above in the thread, with it finally ending up in a a notice to pursue in small claims court.

We haven't reached an agreement so they are aware that we are going to be filing for a small claims court case.

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By *ig1gaz1Man
over a year ago

bradford

Its been a while but how are you going on with this ?

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By *litterbabe OP   Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.

We haven't reached any kind of agreement, so I have initiated small claims court proceedings.

We have agreed to go to mediation so that is happening this week, I very much doubt we will be able to come to an agreement so I expect it will result in my first court hearing, which I am quite nervous about.

I will prepare as well as I can and take my evidence and report and just hope for the best.

It's difficult, a consumer taking a big company to court but I just feel it's the right thing to do as the situation is very unfair.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do not accept the repair stand your ground and definitely get an independent report done your end, it might be a long process but you will get it resolved, it such a shame you’ve had this experience when I can imagine you spent a small fortune, I hope you do get it sorted and end up with the kitchen you dreamt of x

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By *ermite12ukMan
over a year ago

Solihull and Brentwood


"We haven't reached any kind of agreement, so I have initiated small claims court proceedings.

We have agreed to go to mediation so that is happening this week, I very much doubt we will be able to come to an agreement so I expect it will result in my first court hearing, which I am quite nervous about.

I will prepare as well as I can and take my evidence and report and just hope for the best.

It's difficult, a consumer taking a big company to court but I just feel it's the right thing to do as the situation is very unfair."

Good luck for next week. Fingers crossed, everything works out for the better and justice for the consumer, prevails.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'd be furious

Good luck i hope you get it sorted out x

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By *xfordshireCoupleMFCouple
over a year ago

Nr. Oxford

Having had a kitchen splash back company take me to small claims court I know how daunting it can feel but it really can be straightforward if you’re organised.

In our case we had a glass Splash back installed at a cost of around £1600, but they didn’t fit it properly the first time. This meant they had to come and install a second one. In removing the first glass they has to pull our oven forwards and when doing this they failed to protect the Oak floor leaving gouges in it.

In the rush I didn’t actually spot the marks on the floor until they’d left. When I sent them photos the denied it was them. So I refused to pay the balance on the bill (£1250) until they sorted it.

Soon enough I was in small claims court as like you Mediation got nowhere.

The next step will choosing a court and deciding if anyone is coming with you and if anyone else is presenting evidence. If you are the only one speaking you can still ask to take someone as moral support.

Luckily I ended up at the court I suggested local to me and not one that was nearer the company taking me to court (100 miles away).

Once that’s done you’ll get a date for your evidence to be submitted and a date for the hearing. You’ll need to triplicate your evidence. One for the kitchen company, one for the court and one for yourself.

It’s important that anything you are going to use in court is sent on time and to all parties. Anything you don’t send can be dismissed. Use tracked mail.

It seems common practise to send this as late as possible so the other party can’t prepare a written counter response. I sent mine 3 days before the deadline as i was nervous about missing it. I receive the evidence from my splashback company on the last day!

As evidence I took 3 independent quotes to repair the floor from local companies (all above the £1250) along with a collection of photos of before and after that showed the damage.

I also presented all the emails as they had started off friendly and then got quite aggressive.

When compiling all the evidence I found it helped to write a timeline of events including contacts between myself and them. I used this as a starter to the evidence pack.

You’ll have to write an introduction, a contents page and an index of presented evidence. It can amount to quite a lot of paperwork but there are some pretty good online guides.

When the court date comes wear something smart (I’ve been to court numerous times now for other things) and it amazes me how many folk are in tracksuits or just look like they wandered in from the street.

You will sit in a waiting room and likely see your kitchen companies representatives. They ought to be polite but you can ask to sit in a private area if uncomfortable.

The court hearing itself will likely take place in a small room rather than a court chamber, but either way it’ll likely just be you, them and a judge.

The judge will have read all paperwork and be familiar with the case. He’ll listen to both viewpoints and then you’ll have a chance to discuss things.

For this I prepared some separate notes to point at what I felt where the strongest parts of my case.

After a bit of a chat we were all asked to go outside whilst the judge deliberated the case. 5 minutes later we were called back in for the decision.

The Judge ruled in my favour and said I didn’t have to pay the bill. He didn’t agree to my counter claim for monies covering time off work however.

So overall it seems scary but the hearing itself is quite a relaxed and amicable affair.

The best advice I can give is keep notes on everything, write a timeline and back everything up with evidence.

Decide what the outcome you want is, the costs involved and how you want to get there and how you want things resolved.

Wow, that’s a long message and I hope some of it is of use.

Happy for a PM if anything isn’t clear.

- John

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By *litterbabe OP   Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.

Thank you so much, that is really helpful as I've never been through this process before.

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By *ig1gaz1Man
over a year ago

bradford

Thankyou for replying

As mentioned already with timeline

Keep it simple and use it at front of the paperwork.

This is a quick read straight to the point timeline document

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By *litterbabe OP   Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.

So mediation didn't work out as it was impossible to find any kind of agreement.

So as much as I feel scared well and totally out of my depth as this is my first time taking anyone to court, I will press ahead as it's the right thing to do.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So mediation didn't work out as it was impossible to find any kind of agreement.

So as much as I feel scared well and totally out of my depth as this is my first time taking anyone to court, I will press ahead as it's the right thing to do."

Good luck with it.

I took a fired Earth shop to court some years ago. The magistrates court that dealt with it wasn’t as scary as I thought it would be.

Just me, my partner, the judge and the owner of the shop round a big table.

I was asked for my evidence. Then he was asked for his.

He produced something I hadn’t seen and the judge said it was therefore inadmissible. I said I was happy to discuss it anyway and after we had the judge ruled in my favour.

It all felt very fair.

Xx

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By *litterbabe OP   Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.

So just to keep this updated, I now have the date for my hearing, and interestingly enough it will be all done online via teams.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So just to keep this updated, I now have the date for my hearing, and interestingly enough it will be all done online via teams."

As ever; I hope it goes well x

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By *litterbabe OP   Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.


"So just to keep this updated, I now have the date for my hearing, and interestingly enough it will be all done online via teams.

As ever; I hope it goes well x"

Thank you, the hearing is not until February. I didn't realise how expensive it was so to take a case to small claims court.

As it is going to hearing I have to pay another £350 on top of the £200 I've always paid plus extra for reports etc

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By *litterbabe OP   Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.

So my claim is set for the very beginning of February, and it's going to be an online hearing.

I can't seem to find the answer to if any evidence can be submitted by video recording, eg on a USB etc.

I have to copy everything and send it to the defendant and the judge so obviously they would each get a USB, if anybody has any advice for me on my answer to this question I would appreciate your help.

I'm nervous, but I have to try and seek justice.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So my claim is set for the very beginning of February, and it's going to be an online hearing.

I can't seem to find the answer to if any evidence can be submitted by video recording, eg on a USB etc.

I have to copy everything and send it to the defendant and the judge so obviously they would each get a USB, if anybody has any advice for me on my answer to this question I would appreciate your help.

I'm nervous, but I have to try and seek justice.

"

Is there nothing in the court websites that says how you should submit the evidence?

I really hope you kick their arses and get all your expenses back plus a new kitchen. It must be so stressful.

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By *litterbabe OP   Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.


"So my claim is set for the very beginning of February, and it's going to be an online hearing.

I can't seem to find the answer to if any evidence can be submitted by video recording, eg on a USB etc.

I have to copy everything and send it to the defendant and the judge so obviously they would each get a USB, if anybody has any advice for me on my answer to this question I would appreciate your help.

I'm nervous, but I have to try and seek justice.

Is there nothing in the court websites that says how you should submit the evidence?

I really hope you kick their arses and get all your expenses back plus a new kitchen. It must be so stressful. "

It just says copies of all evidence must be sent to the court and to the defendant, by recorded delivery if possible, it doesn't say in what format. I will phone them tomorrow if I haven't found out before.

Thank you so much we literally just want it put right so that we can put it behind us finally.

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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville

Seems a hassle. I've no knowledge of how to do this but if it's done by Teams, can you share them on day?

I did a quick search and came up with this (see link) - below reasonable adjustments is "Make sure you have all documents"

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/what-to-expect-when-joining-a-telephone-or-video-hearing#before-your-hearing

It might be a good idea to get in touch with the courts and check that you don't have to email them through to each, so as you are not seen as dropping info on them?

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By *litterbabe OP   Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.

Thank you for that, I do appreciate the link. Unfortunately it doesn't have the answer that I need but I will contact the court tomorrow.

I would have to provide the video in advance as no evidence can be submitted on the day, it has to all of them and sent in advance to both the court and the defendant, so I would need to send them a USB rather than share a video from my computer on the day.

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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville

You've no doubt got links coming out of your ears.. One thing worth mentioning is using recorded delivery. This isn't Guarantee of delivery - if they want to be arses, they can say it was delivered but someone else received it - Special delivery is worth the extra £ or 2 as this is guarantees they receive. If you've paid costs up to now it's worth it. I've honestly had probs around recorded seeing delivered but no support.

Hope it goes well!

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By *atriciayoiditTV/TS
over a year ago

hatfield


"I hope you don't mind but I just needed to rant.

I know people share all kinds of things on here, and and I just wanted to get this off my chest!

Just over 18 months after budgeting and saving, I had a new kitchen fitted.

I chose the company very carefully, stainless steel....took lots of advice from friends family and people on here, and and everything was ordered and fitted.

The manufacturer are supply only so I hired a reputable fitter.

A month or two after fitting the finish on some of them units started chipping, I complained to the company and they sent replacement fronts.

The chipping continued and a couple of months ago I messaged them and said I didn't feel that the finish on this particular range were suitable for purpose, it chips very easily and has as a dark finish with a very bright white basecoat which means any chips show really clearly.

They asked if we would agree to an inspection by what they said was an independent inspection service. We agreed to the inspection believing it to be independent, and the inspection found that the fault was with us for misuse, which we of course, do not feel is the case, as we treat the kitchen with lots of respect.

Now we are are struggling with the company as they are only prepared to offers a discount on replacement fronts and we actually feel that we should change the finish of the units as they are not suitable.

I have found some other people whom have left reviews in different places saying they have had similar problems.

I now have also researched the inspection company and the furniture ombudsman and found that they they are not at all independent, (Google reviews and reviews in other places).

It is extremely annoying and I think it's going to end up with me taking them to small claims court. The whole situation is really frustrating as this was supposed to be my dream kitchen and now it is obviously quite upsetting, plus the company (who have great reviews for their other kitchens styles, just not this finish) are refusing to help in a significant manner.

They have a guarantee for all their kitchens, but it doesn't cover wear and tear etc.

We feel that this is far more than wear and tear though, this is unsuitable for purpose.

They have said to us that the report is independent and will stand up in court.

If it goes to court I will show evidence that it isn't independent, and I will also get a separate report.

Ann idea I had was to just change the cupboard and drawer fronts to the gloss finish, but after discussing this with their customer service, they said they didn't feel it would match because it would be too different and too much of a contrast with the matte finish that we have, and would not match therefore we would need to have all all plinth, cornice and and end boards changed as well. Basically the whole kitchen including worktops taken out and refitted around the existing carcasses.

One other thing they have offered us today is to have their paint specialist travel to us to repair on-site whatever he can, I feel that is a reasonable option but I am sure that the finish will continue to chip as it really is very brittle.

Thank you for listening and I do apologise I just needed to rant.

I doubt anybody would have any help or advice as it is all too frustrating and I feel I have explored most avenues!

"
stainless steel...

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By *ig1gaz1Man
over a year ago

bradford


"Thank you for that, I do appreciate the link. Unfortunately it doesn't have the answer that I need but I will contact the court tomorrow.

I would have to provide the video in advance as no evidence can be submitted on the day, it has to all of them and sent in advance to both the court and the defendant, so I would need to send them a USB rather than share a video from my computer on the day.

"

usb video evidence will be refused even cd evidence can and will be refused but thats due to many not having the equipment.

or possible virus infection from your system or others.

photo evidence of the video they will except.

paper evidence they will except you need to find out how they would like this evidence.

You'll be asked to send copies of documents to the court and the defendant.

from cab small claims info

You can only send documents to the defendant by email or fax if the other side agrees you can - ask them before you send anything. You should also check if they need the documents sent in a certain way - for example, using a particular file format or size.

It’s also a good idea to send your documents by recorded delivery and keep a copy of the proof of postage.

check with court for what you can send

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By *ig1gaz1Man
over a year ago

bradford

mp4 video evidence can be excepted within a dvd format but all depends if the judge or defendant has the equipment.

Tv, dvd player not all recordings will work in different dvd players.

They can refuse the dvd evidence so use backup printed photo evidence.

if your sending by post the better way then print out as photo not just as a normal printout thats within your printers settings.

by other means faxing they lose there quality on there side due there printers printing it out.

all depends on what the court says how you need to send the evidence.

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By *xfordshireCoupleMFCouple
over a year ago

Nr. Oxford

Good to hear you’ve got a date and you’ll soon be able to put all this behind you.

As has been said I suspect that you might not be able to submit video evidence for an online hearing but I’d be interested to hear if you can.

We just recently had a customer try to take us to court and were preparing our some CCTV as evidence. In the end the Court asked the guy to actually confirm what he was trying to take us to court for as it wasn’t clear, and he never progressed the claim. A waste of £50 or so on fee’s on his behalf but hours of our time.

When submitting your evidence to court and the other party, leave it as late as you can whilst being confident it’ll arrive ahead of the deadline. Just gives them as little time as possible to prepare verbal counters to your case.

- John

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By *litterbabe OP   Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.

Thank you everybody, I'm still researching how I can send my evidence, if it was an appearance in court rather than remotely I would be allowed to bring my laptop and show it there I believe, but it's a bit more complicated remotely.

I'm also trying to get all the paperwork and evidence together, it has to be in triplicate.

I have to send everything to the defendant and to the court in advance of 14 days of the hearing.

On the letter I have received from the court it says that a minimum of 3 days before, in addition, I also have to send the both the defendant and the court, via both electronic and hard-copy the following documents, I just want to make sure that I know what they are.

1) case summary and chronology

I expect this similar to what I filled out when requesting to take the claims to small court, namely a summary of what happened and the order of what has happened since then, in date order.

2) the parties position statements,

I think this means the situation currently, where I stand and where I feel that defendant stands, and what I would like to achieve from the hearing

3) the previous orders that are relevant to the remote hearing

4) the application relevant to the remote hearing

-( I have no idea what points 3 and 4 are)

5) all essential documents that the court requires to determine the issues that fall for determination act the remote hearing

To me this would be a duplication of all the evidence I wish to produce at the hearing that I need to send them 14 days In advance, that I wish to be considered.

6) A draft order

- I have no idea what this is

7) the claim form (is this the original notification that I sent letting the company though I'm taking them to court?)

8) any defence and counterclaim if filed.

I think this doesn't apply to me as I am taking the defendant to court, so they are defending themselves against the evidence I'm providing.

It also says if I am going to rely on a professional report in the hearing, I need to ask permission to use it.

I know the defendant and myself are both using reports, and I will be submitting mine to the judge 14 days in advance, do I need to ask permission before that to be able to submit it?

It's very stressful and the court only has an email address that I can send information and documents requested to them three days before the hearing but not any contact means I have found at the moment that I can go to for help.

I am getting through it but I didn't realise it would be quite this complicated.

He's so much for all your comments and if anybody has a clue about the above documents then that would also be awesome!

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By *ig1gaz1Man
over a year ago

bradford

For the video you will have to ask the court how they want you to provide it.

Ask them if you can provide a video link using dropbox or other youtube or dailymotion.

I suspect youtube and dailymotion will get refused.

Dropbox virus checks your file and the file is also downloadable as well.

Keep it simple everything done by date order

When you noticed and when you complained what was there response and what they did to resolve the matter.

Dont double print (print on both page sides) on the case summary and chronology order.

1 page 2 pages tops for quick review with added photo images on different pages linked by numbers.

2, where you stand with what the company is offering and what the companys solution is being offered.

Be honest with your comment.

3 not relevant - 4 might be a request to go online instead of apear in court.

6) A draft order: possibly previous court order or agreed duty in another hearing.

professional reports dont argue that theres are an in house report, Except theres as much as they have to except your report.

Your report is your evidence so no you dont need to ask permission.

note they may argue that your professional report is being done by another company that has an interest in doing so ( fitting new kitchen for you )

your more than welcome to state that the company involved hasnt been awarded the contract ( unknown on who you have used )

Final case note what you want to happen and what you expect the company to do to remedy the situation.

Choose wisely

( my comment here )

At 10 grand not knowing the size or how many units you are having or have.

Your being ripped off for the kitchen everyone is being supplied with.

Its not hard wood and its not furniture grade plyboard ( baltic birch ) its chipboard coated with a surface.

The worktop depends on what you pick.

slate, concrete, resin, chipboard, acrylic, marble, granite.

Most surfaces will get scratched or damaged by the user.

knives, keys items being dropped even handbags can scratch plastic coated things.

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By *litterbabe OP   Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.

Thank you so much, that is really helpful.

My report is unbiased, it was done by a company that simply write reports for the furniture industry, they don't provide any services other than independent reports.

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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago

Peterborough

Other options are to complain to Radio 4 Money box live, as they seem to magically pull out all of the stops.

Otherwise contact RESOLVER as they have worked for me, when Shell Energy refused to accept my dual fuel meter readings, even with photographic evidence. This dragged on for months.

Resolver sorted it in 10 days and gave me compo!

So before you start banging your head against the wall, give them a try. I really can't sing their praises enough.

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By *illUpMySensesMan
over a year ago

SHEFFIELD

Hope this all goes well for you OP. I too have just recently dealt with the so called Ombudsmen for a well known kitchen supplier only to find they are paid for by that same company and other well known high street retailers. It is an absolute joke and I am considering going down the small claims route as my complaints just fall on deaf ears.

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By *itygamesMan
over a year ago

UK

I thought paying buy credit card was like/ similar to an insurance against faulty goods...ie you get your money back.

Chargeback is for debit cards re wrong or re occurring payment type issues..

Could it be the credit card company will re imburse due to faulty goods.

Maybe the fitter can give you a written report on the quality of the materials

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By *ig1gaz1Man
over a year ago

bradford


"Thank you so much, that is really helpful.

My report is unbiased, it was done by a company that simply write reports for the furniture industry, they don't provide any services other than independent reports."

your welcome

Make sure that you include that info written report performed by furniture industry...

I forgot to say with dropbox video

When you link it, You can watch it on video as it has its own player.

Theres also an option to download the video file to be saved and played on there system.

As long as they have a player on there system vlc is freeware but most systems can play most video files nowadays.

Baltic birch plywood is used in school furniture and office furniture.

fyi

baltic birch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPxL2uvehaI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxbWCZ7Gl7Y

hardwood

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryFrwngWhmo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCi5A6sXj94

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By *ig1gaz1Man
over a year ago

bradford


"I thought paying buy credit card was like/ similar to an insurance against faulty goods...ie you get your money back.

Chargeback is for debit cards re wrong or re occurring payment type issues..

Could it be the credit card company will re imburse due to faulty goods.

Maybe the fitter can give you a written report on the quality of the materials "

At the start of the post


"We did pay by credit card, and have looked into a section 75 chargeback.

It might be a possible route that we take, although a chargeback is not simple as it is still their word against us and they have have the inspection agency report.

We would obviously get a report also, but it would be their word against ours.

If we have to get a report though it's still might be a good avenue to explore as if the chargeback didn't work we could use the report in court."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As long as its fashion grey in colour lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I hope you don't mind but I just needed to rant.

I know people share all kinds of things on here, and and I just wanted to get this off my chest!

Just over 18 months after budgeting and saving, I had a new kitchen fitted.

I chose the company very carefully, took lots of advice from friends family and people on here, and and everything was ordered and fitted.

The manufacturer are supply only so I hired a reputable fitter.

A month or two after fitting the finish on some of them units started chipping, I complained to the company and they sent replacement fronts.

The chipping continued and a couple of months ago I messaged them and said I didn't feel that the finish on this particular range were suitable for purpose, it chips very easily and has as a dark finish with a very bright white basecoat which means any chips show really clearly.

They asked if we would agree to an inspection by what they said was an independent inspection service. We agreed to the inspection believing it to be independent, and the inspection found that the fault was with us for misuse, which we of course, do not feel is the case, as we treat the kitchen with lots of respect.

Now we are are struggling with the company as they are only prepared to offers a discount on replacement fronts and we actually feel that we should change the finish of the units as they are not suitable.

I have found some other people whom have left reviews in different places saying they have had similar problems.

I now have also researched the inspection company and the furniture ombudsman and found that they they are not at all independent, (Google reviews and reviews in other places).

It is extremely annoying and I think it's going to end up with me taking them to small claims court. The whole situation is really frustrating as this was supposed to be my dream kitchen and now it is obviously quite upsetting, plus the company (who have great reviews for their other kitchens styles, just not this finish) are refusing to help in a significant manner.

They have a guarantee for all their kitchens, but it doesn't cover wear and tear etc.

We feel that this is far more than wear and tear though, this is unsuitable for purpose.

They have said to us that the report is independent and will stand up in court.

If it goes to court I will show evidence that it isn't independent, and I will also get a separate report.

Ann idea I had was to just change the cupboard and drawer fronts to the gloss finish, but after discussing this with their customer service, they said they didn't feel it would match because it would be too different and too much of a contrast with the matte finish that we have, and would not match therefore we would need to have all all plinth, cornice and and end boards changed as well. Basically the whole kitchen including worktops taken out and refitted around the existing carcasses.

One other thing they have offered us today is to have their paint specialist travel to us to repair on-site whatever he can, I feel that is a reasonable option but I am sure that the finish will continue to chip as it really is very brittle.

Thank you for listening and I do apologise I just needed to rant.

I doubt anybody would have any help or advice as it is all too frustrating and I feel I have explored most avenues!

"

My mum bought a tracksuit for a sibling when I was a kid. From a market stall chap. It started coming apart within a week so she took it back and when the guy refused the refund she stood a few feet away and showed anyone heading to the stall the shoddy stitching.

Took about 3 minutes for the guy to take the track suit and hand her the cash

Just saying

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By *litterbabe OP   Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.


"Hope this all goes well for you OP. I too have just recently dealt with the so called Ombudsmen for a well known kitchen supplier only to find they are paid for by that same company and other well known high street retailers. It is an absolute joke and I am considering going down the small claims route as my complaints just fall on deaf ears."

Exactly this, the company they used is part of an ombudsman scheme and they pay approximately £10,000 a year for its membership.

It is completely biased, if you have a look on on Google reviews at fira you will see exactly what I'm talking about.

We did try resolver at the beginning, but the company do not use resolver so that was a no go.

Thank you to everybody who's contributed

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By *ig1gaz1Man
over a year ago

bradford


"So my claim is set for the very beginning of February, and it's going to be an online hearing. "

Your on your last week now.

Have you got everything ready and in your own folder for on the day.

Checked to make sure everyone has got there details as well.

Remember use your case summary and chronology order on the day.

Now stop worrying as youve done everything right up to this point.

video call pointers

Do it over the table like a court room with a jug of water and a glass.(if you can)

You want light to show your face and body beaware of reflective light, sunlight reflecting off of surfaces.

you can check via your video camera on your phone.

Try to get some sleep the night before the case most dont

best wishes for the court case, Please let us know your outcome.

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By *litterbabe OP   Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.

Thank you so much, I am just putting together all the paperwork I have to send a minimum of 3 days in advance.

I sent the 14 days in advance evidence last week and it has been signed for and received by the court and the defendant. Strangely enough I haven't received the evidence that the defendant is going to rely on.

I am just going to leave that for the moment as it might be useful later on, they have had my evidence to prepare their case on but I have not had their's.

Speaking to people about that, some legal bodies think that the judge will allow their evidence anyway as the small claims court is supposed to be more relaxed then civil court, others think that I should ask the judge that they should not be able to use it as they have not submitted it in time and therefore have an advantage of already having my evidence. (It is supposed to be deemed as fair if both parties exchange evidence just in advance of 14 days so they can prepare their final case).

I will see if and when I get theirs before I decide what to do.

I am nervous but I'm preparing as best as I can, and if I am not successful I still will know I have given it my best shot and stood in my corner for what I believe is only fair.

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By *ig1gaz1Man
over a year ago

bradford


"Thank you so much, I am just putting together all the paperwork I have to send a minimum of 3 days in advance.

I sent the 14 days in advance evidence last week and it has been signed for and received by the court and the defendant. Strangely enough I haven't received the evidence that the defendant is going to rely on."

your going to cross paperwork with 2 sets of evidence. (yours and submitted)

Your better off using the same evidence that you submitted.

the defendant will be going through all of there paperwork to compile for the court.

This includes what they did to remedy the situationa nd complaint against them.

This is why you have your case summary and chronology order on the day.

keep it close and in good view the chronology is important.


"they have had my evidence to prepare their case on but I have not had their's.

small claims court is supposed to be more relaxed then civil court, others think that I should ask the judge that they should not be able to use it as they have not submitted it in time and therefore have an advantage of already having my evidence. (It is supposed to be deemed as fair if both parties exchange evidence just in advance of 14 days so they can prepare their final case).

I will see if and when I get theirs before I decide what to do."

Civil is more simple to be honest, Certainly not where your given paperwork in the last 15mins before court.

The company will be looking at all your evidence, Also insurance side of things, They can still send in the last 3 days like you.

As much as an offer can be made, That offer can be on the same date as court so beaware of this.

Note you can only ask the judge not to submit there last minute paperwork evidence as youve not had time to review or reply to there evidence.

Consider this

You have all your evidence and chronology order prepared.

Your aware of there remedial work they have made/done by chronogical order.

It dosnt matter if they try to submit any other evidence, Other than placing an offer of a full refund.

This is all that matters.

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By *litterbabe OP   Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.

Thank you so much, I didn't quite understand what this bit meant

"your going to cross paperwork with 2 sets of evidence. (yours and submitted)

Your better off using the same evidence that you submitted'

I will be using the same evidence that I've already submitted in court, I will have more backup paperwork that I have to submit 3 days before including witness statements and quotes to put things right, etc.

I have a detailed chronology and I will be sticking with it, it is very accurate.

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By *litterbabe OP   Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.

Now it is 2 days before they hearing, and the court have today vacated the hearing and asked both parties to let them know unavailable dates in next 9 months.

I have provided the evidence requested on the court order 14 days before, and all of the documents 3 days before.

I have received no paperwork from the defendant.

Now the defendant have all of my evidence and every document I intend to refer to or rely on in court, and I have received nothing (which I believe is in breach of their court order).

The defendant now have up to 9 months to prepare their case against me, with all of my evidence and documents, and I have nothing from them.

I wouldn't have felt it fair for them to use any evidence submitted late if the hearing was still taking place, but now they have all the time in the world.

I feel that is unfair.

That is stepping aside the fact that I have been preparing and very anxious about the upcoming hearing, and was glad it was going to be over soon, but now it is continuing

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Are you sure they’ll be allowed to submit things still? If they submitted nothing by the original court date, I’d be surprised if they’d be allowed to take advantage of a delay.

At the end of the day they fucked your kitchen up and its wasn’t Your fault.

What else can they say ….

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By *litterbabe OP   Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.


"Are you sure they’ll be allowed to submit things still? If they submitted nothing by the original court date, I’d be surprised if they’d be allowed to take advantage of a delay.

At the end of the day they fucked your kitchen up and its wasn’t Your fault.

What else can they say …. "

I don't honestly know if they will be allowed to submit evidence or not, but I expect they will.

When we get a new court date I would expect we will be told once again when to submit documents, they already have all of mine, I don't have any of theirs.

I am going to email the court and explain the position, the problem is that I know they are massively short staffed, they say themselves that they hardly reply to any messages.

I will also phone them but I'm not really sure what the outcome will be.

It's been very stressful and upsetting and and this just seems very unfair.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Are you sure they’ll be allowed to submit things still? If they submitted nothing by the original court date, I’d be surprised if they’d be allowed to take advantage of a delay.

At the end of the day they fucked your kitchen up and its wasn’t Your fault.

What else can they say ….

I don't honestly know if they will be allowed to submit evidence or not, but I expect they will.

When we get a new court date I would expect we will be told once again when to submit documents, they already have all of mine, I don't have any of theirs.

I am going to email the court and explain the position, the problem is that I know they are massively short staffed, they say themselves that they hardly reply to any messages.

I will also phone them but I'm not really sure what the outcome will be.

It's been very stressful and upsetting and and this just seems very unfair."

I feel the courts sympathy will be with you so don’t worry unduly xx

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By *litterbabe OP   Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.

Thank you, I do appreciate your thoughts.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Thank you, I do appreciate your thoughts."

In my Experience, courts tend to favour the ‘little guy’. Xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Are you sure they’ll be allowed to submit things still? If they submitted nothing by the original court date, I’d be surprised if they’d be allowed to take advantage of a delay.

At the end of the day they fucked your kitchen up and its wasn’t Your fault.

What else can they say ….

I don't honestly know if they will be allowed to submit evidence or not, but I expect they will.

When we get a new court date I would expect we will be told once again when to submit documents, they already have all of mine, I don't have any of theirs.

I am going to email the court and explain the position, the problem is that I know they are massively short staffed, they say themselves that they hardly reply to any messages.

I will also phone them but I'm not really sure what the outcome will be.

It's been very stressful and upsetting and and this just seems very unfair."

Do you have a solicitor? This sounds awful and ridiculously unfair. x

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By *litterbabe OP   Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.

It's small claims court so they don't even advise you to use a solicitor.

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By *ig1gaz1Man
over a year ago

bradford


"I don't honestly know if they will be allowed to submit evidence or not, but I expect they will.

When we get a new court date I would expect we will be told once again when to submit documents, they already have all of mine, I don't have any of theirs.

I am going to email the court and explain the position, the problem is that I know they are massively short staffed, they say themselves that they hardly reply to any messages.

I will also phone them but I'm not really sure what the outcome will be.

It's been very stressful and upsetting and and this just seems very unfair."

Couple of things, I understand its annoying with your case.

Your dealing with court cases that are so backed up due to covid.

As your case has been suspended to another date not much you can do about it.

There is plenty of other cases before yours that is the same.

Annoyed and peeved I agree as you just want it over with.

They have no evidence to provide to the court so havent submitted any on the 3 days before court.

friday was the send end date.

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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville

Keep at it.. forums with ya

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By *mma29Couple
over a year ago

wirral

Hope you win the case. I'll be keeping an eye on this over the next 9 months.

I'm about to buy a kitchen on the weekend, but I'm terrified now.

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By *litterbabe OP   Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.


"Hope you win the case. I'll be keeping an eye on this over the next 9 months.

I'm about to buy a kitchen on the weekend, but I'm terrified now."

I was just unlucky.

I actually believe the kitchen company are pretty good it's just that the paint on my kitchen was defective. They have even changed the spray lines since I bought mine.

It is highly unlikely you would have a similar experience. Enjoy choosing your kitchen. X

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By *ig1gaz1Man
over a year ago

bradford


"I'm about to buy a kitchen on the weekend, but I'm terrified now."

Its all made the same way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taU2ZRwdiHU

Then its your special features easy close none banging drawers and cupboards.

Ball bearing drawer openers instead of plastic runners.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYzpsm0G6G4

Add 1/2 of the price onto the kitchen for faults and damages

Then add the fitters fee of 400 a day.

you can protect a little by using laquer but most surfaces will get damaged paper, painted or plastic coated

Same with the worktops part of reason why you use chopping boards for cutting up on.

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By *nlyfun3Woman
over a year ago

NEAR Berkhamsted,Herts

I hope it all goes in your favour OP. I didn't know you had all these issues. Im just choosing a kitchen at the moment. It's hard enough to decide and part with all that money, let alone a years worth of post fitting hassle x

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By *litterbabe OP   Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.


"I hope it all goes in your favour OP. I didn't know you had all these issues. Im just choosing a kitchen at the moment. It's hard enough to decide and part with all that money, let alone a years worth of post fitting hassle x"

Thank you, I think for most people it is absolutely fine it's just one in every so many 100 or 1000 that go wrong, unfortunately I'm that one, but it's certainly not the biggest problem in the world.

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By *ig1gaz1Man
over a year ago

bradford


"Now it is 2 days before they hearing, and the court have today vacated the hearing and asked both parties to let them know unavailable dates in next 9 months.

("

there dragging out to the last minute arnt they

so any news as of yet ?

roughly about 3 months left

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

not Howdens by any chance?

Like you we had a new kitchen fitted in December. The fitter at the time said 'dont buy from howdens' as the quality had deteriorated so much that he refuses to fit them now..

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By *atriciayoiditTV/TS
over a year ago

hatfield


"I hope you don't mind but I just needed to rant.

I know people share all kinds of things on here, and and I just wanted to get this off my chest!

Just over 18 months after budgeting and saving, I had a new kitchen fitted.

I chose the company very carefully, took lots of advice from friends family and people on here, and and everything was ordered and fitted.

The manufacturer are supply only so I hired a reputable fitter.

A month or two after fitting the finish on some of them units started chipping, I complained to the company and they sent replacement fronts.

The chipping continued and a couple of months ago I messaged them and said I didn't feel that the finish on this particular range were suitable for purpose, it chips very easily and has as a dark finish with a very bright white basecoat which means any chips show really clearly.

They asked if we would agree to an inspection by what they said was an independent inspection service. We agreed to the inspection believing it to be independent, and the inspection found that the fault was with us for misuse, which we of course, do not feel is the case, as we treat the kitchen with lots of respect.

Now we are are struggling with the company as they are only prepared to offers a discount on replacement fronts and we actually feel that we should change the finish of the units as they are not suitable.

I have found some other people whom have left reviews in different places saying they have had similar problems.

I now have also researched the inspection company and the furniture ombudsman and found that they they are not at all independent, (Google reviews and reviews in other places).

It is extremely annoying and I think it's going to end up with me taking them to small claims court. The whole situation is really frustrating as this was supposed to be my dream kitchen and now it is obviously quite upsetting, plus the company (who have great reviews for their other kitchens styles, just not this finish) are refusing to help in a significant manner.

They have a guarantee for all their kitchens, but it doesn't cover wear and tear etc.

We feel that this is far more than wear and tear though, this is unsuitable for purpose.

They have said to us that the report is independent and will stand up in court.

If it goes to court I will show evidence that it isn't independent, and I will also get a separate report.

Ann idea I had was to just change the cupboard and drawer fronts to the gloss finish, but after discussing this with their customer service, they said they didn't feel it would match because it would be too different and too much of a contrast with the matte finish that we have, and would not match therefore we would need to have all all plinth, cornice and and end boards changed as well. Basically the whole kitchen including worktops taken out and refitted around the existing carcasses.

One other thing they have offered us today is to have their paint specialist travel to us to repair on-site whatever he can, I feel that is a reasonable option but I am sure that the finish will continue to chip as it really is very brittle.

Thank you for listening and I do apologise I just needed to rant.

I doubt anybody would have any help or advice as it is all too frustrating and I feel I have explored most avenues!

"
next time buy stainless steel..

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By *litterbabe OP   Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.

In the end and literally the very last minute after much frustration, it got settled out of court.

Stainless steel looks amazing but I found even on appliances I've had before that are stainless steel it's very hard to remove grease marks.

It wasn't from Howdens it was another company.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"In the end and literally the very last minute after much frustration, it got settled out of court.

Stainless steel looks amazing but I found even on appliances I've had before that are stainless steel it's very hard to remove grease marks.

It wasn't from Howdens it was another company."

A company I work for users a product called neobright or something similar gateaux for getting rid of finger print marks and stopping them coming back on medical furniture. 3M stainless steel cleaner and polish is supposed to be brilliant too.

Mr

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By *ig1gaz1Man
over a year ago

bradford


"In the end and literally the very last minute after much frustration, it got settled out of court.

Stainless steel looks amazing but I found even on appliances I've had before that are stainless steel it's very hard to remove grease marks.

It wasn't from Howdens it was another company."

Do you mind if i ask you what the remedy was then, full rip out, all costs retruned ...

Im glad it got sorted but took a very long time to do it.

would you recomend it to others then ?

stainless steel ok for a prep table or a hot top table.

but not for the whole kitchen it kinda looks like a canteen kitchen not really a good look for a home.

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By *litterbabe OP   Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.

At least all the doors have to be completely replaced as they are showing multiple chips. Plinth and side panels I can live with although they aren't really how they should be, as they are cheap too but they are just not as visible because of where they are.

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By *litterbabe OP   Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.


"In the end and literally the very last minute after much frustration, it got settled out of court.

Stainless steel looks amazing but I found even on appliances I've had before that are stainless steel it's very hard to remove grease marks.

It wasn't from Howdens it was another company.

Do you mind if i ask you what the remedy was then, full rip out, all costs retruned ...

Im glad it got sorted but took a very long time to do it.

would you recomend it to others then ?

stainless steel ok for a prep table or a hot top table.

but not for the whole kitchen it kinda looks like a canteen kitchen not really a good look for a home."

I couldn't recommend this company of course. But I think maybe they have corrected the situation as I know for sure I'm not the only person that had terrible paint issues.

Also they have a line of different kitchens, at least 24 in the range. And it does seem that it is this particular paint that was an issue.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"In the end and literally the very last minute after much frustration, it got settled out of court.

Stainless steel looks amazing but I found even on appliances I've had before that are stainless steel it's very hard to remove grease marks.

It wasn't from Howdens it was another company.

Do you mind if i ask you what the remedy was then, full rip out, all costs retruned ...

Im glad it got sorted but took a very long time to do it.

would you recomend it to others then ?

stainless steel ok for a prep table or a hot top table.

but not for the whole kitchen it kinda looks like a canteen kitchen not really a good look for a home.

I couldn't recommend this company of course. But I think maybe they have corrected the situation as I know for sure I'm not the only person that had terrible paint issues.

Also they have a line of different kitchens, at least 24 in the range. And it does seem that it is this particular paint that was an issue."

Good news. Thank goodness the stress is over. Hope it looks great.

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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville

Great news.

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