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The dreaded (friend zone )

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By *ememberTheName OP   Man
over a year ago

barnsley

I just had a phone call off a young lady I used to go to school with ...

Unusual she never calls

I’ve been chatting to her for the past 6 months or so ... going on socially distanced walks with the intentions of more after it’s safe

But tonight she said you’re my best friend

I’m too nice for my own good

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Then you go be the best goddamn friend a person could ask for, OP!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Would it have been worse if she'd friend zoned you after more had happened?

Silver linings.

Nice people are hard to come by. Stay nice... It'll shine through in the right way with the right person.

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By *rumpyMcFuckNuggetMan
over a year ago

Den of Iniquity

I feel ya dude .

My problem as well

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hey I had sex with one of my best friends for a while!

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By *ate_BMan
over a year ago

London


"Then you go be the best goddamn friend a person could ask for, OP! "

Aye aye!

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By *agneto.Man
over a year ago

Bham

You got a friend. Be happy with that. Just don't go weird on her now.

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By *ecadent_DevonMan
over a year ago

Okehampton


"I just had a phone call off a young lady I used to go to school with ...

Unusual she never calls

I’ve been chatting to her for the past 6 months or so ... going on socially distanced walks with the intentions of more after it’s safe

But tonight she said you’re my best friend

I’m too nice for my own good

"

Been there chap. Hits like an anvil. But you know what, it’s cool, there is a path through it. Just don’t be there as a shoulder to cry on as all the shitheads she picks end up treating her like trash. Because whilst it smarts to be friendzoned, if fucking rips you apart to hear how all the arseholes treated her and that they were the “better option”.

Smile, walk away, Christmas card once a year, new chapter

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You win some & you lose some... but if she’s a good friend don’t back off, just be the best friend she wants at the moment.

Whether that ends up more or not it’s good to have friends, particularly at the moment.

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By *razytimesinloveCouple
over a year ago

SW Scotland

Don’t stress it, I go friend zoned once. We went our separate ways for a few years but kept in touch.

Ended up meeting up again, got married five years later and been married for five more.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"You got a friend. Be happy with that. Just don't go weird on her now. "

This!

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By *ememberTheName OP   Man
over a year ago

barnsley


"Hey I had sex with one of my best friends for a while! "

Hey touch me .... feel that ?

Best friend material

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You can be a best friend, and other things too. For me, that’s the perfect way to do it.

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By *not123Couple
over a year ago

sp1

Hey p is my best friend since I was 11.. Plenty been going on for 3 yrs

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"You can be a best friend, and other things too. For me, that’s the perfect way to do it.

"

Definitely

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By *eliWoman
over a year ago

.


"Hey I had sex with one of my best friends for a while! "

Tmi Nora, tmi.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Happened to me on here the other day

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By *ememberTheName OP   Man
over a year ago

barnsley


"Don’t stress it, I go friend zoned once. We went our separate ways for a few years but kept in touch.

Ended up meeting up again, got married five years later and been married for five more. "

I’m not stressed

all good in the hood

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Hey I had sex with one of my best friends for a while!

Tmi Nora, tmi. "

What? You enjoyed it _eli

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By *ememberTheName OP   Man
over a year ago

barnsley


"You can be a best friend, and other things too. For me, that’s the perfect way to do it.

"

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By *iscean_dreamMan
over a year ago

Llanelli

Be that good friend and see what happens, you never know what the future holds

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By *eliWoman
over a year ago

.

Anyway, what's so wrong with the friend zone? So you can't put your willy in her. Boohoo. Having a friend, someone you can talk to? That's more important than a shag that lasts a few minutes. Maybe in time something will develop, maybe it won't. Value whatever it is you have and don't discount it hoping for more.

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall


"I just had a phone call off a young lady I used to go to school with ...

Unusual she never calls

I’ve been chatting to her for the past 6 months or so ... going on socially distanced walks with the intentions of more after it’s safe

But tonight she said you’re my best friend

I’m too nice for my own good

"

Have you told her that you would like to be more than just friends?

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By *apmanMan
over a year ago

Holmfirth

If you're nice, be nice.

You won't be happy going against your nature.

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By *ememberTheName OP   Man
over a year ago

barnsley


"Anyway, what's so wrong with the friend zone? So you can't put your willy in her. Boohoo. Having a friend, someone you can talk to? That's more important than a shag that lasts a few minutes. Maybe in time something will develop, maybe it won't. Value whatever it is you have and don't discount it hoping for more."

Listen there’s nothing wrong with the friend zone I appreciate that she trusts me enough to talk about things

And I appreciate the friendship

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By *rumpyMcFuckNuggetMan
over a year ago

Den of Iniquity


"If you're nice, be nice.

You won't be happy going against your nature."

This

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

why is it bad to be a woman's friend?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have 2 friend zones... One lot I will and 1 lot I won't

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

this kind of thread makes me very wary of being friendly to men

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By *eliWoman
over a year ago

.


"this kind of thread makes me very wary of being friendly to men "

Nooo, don't let it! Sometimes men just enjoy being friendly to women. At least that's what I tell myself. I've been thinking about this lately anyway - can men and women be friends? With no other intentions? Even more so on a site like this. I know I have male friends I have zero interest in and you'd hope that was it, wouldn't you?

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By *ecadent_DevonMan
over a year ago

Okehampton

Okay a number of assumptions.

If you have told this lady that you have feelings for her and she has friendzoned you. Walk away. Waiting around for people to change and see you as you see them is fools errand

If you haven’t told her you have feelings for her but you do. Walk away. It will cut you up when she has other relationships until you get past your feelings. You are also being deceitful as you have feelings for her beyond friendship but are playing the friend “game” and not telling her how you really feel

If you don’t have any particular feelings for her but just want to “secret snuggle” then remain friends.

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By *iscean_dreamMan
over a year ago

Llanelli


"this kind of thread makes me very wary of being friendly to men

Nooo, don't let it! Sometimes men just enjoy being friendly to women. At least that's what I tell myself. I've been thinking about this lately anyway - can men and women be friends? With no other intentions? Even more so on a site like this. I know I have male friends I have zero interest in and you'd hope that was it, wouldn't you? "

If they're a respectable person then they will accept boundaries and not cross them. Opposite sexs can always be just friends and that shouldn't need to be any different here I don't think

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"this kind of thread makes me very wary of being friendly to men

Nooo, don't let it! Sometimes men just enjoy being friendly to women. At least that's what I tell myself. I've been thinking about this lately anyway - can men and women be friends? With no other intentions? Even more so on a site like this. I know I have male friends I have zero interest in and you'd hope that was it, wouldn't you? "

you would hope so.

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By *he English OneMan
over a year ago

west

You should be grateful that she feels she can confide in you and can call you a really good friend maybe her feelings might go further I wouldn't pressurise it just play it out and who knows but even if it don't go any further then that still isn't a bad thing friendship is a powerful thing enjoy each others company

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By *ememberTheName OP   Man
over a year ago

barnsley


"why is it bad to be a woman's friend? "
i don’t know where you get that from this post

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"why is it bad to be a woman's friend? i don’t know where you get that from this post "

The dreaded friendzone is where I get it from. Or did you mean its dreaded because you wanted more than just friends?

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By *ememberTheName OP   Man
over a year ago

barnsley

Please guys stop jumping to conclusions

I will carry on being a good friend it’s what I do

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You guys get ay least offered friendship?

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By *ememberTheName OP   Man
over a year ago

barnsley


"why is it bad to be a woman's friend? i don’t know where you get that from this post

The dreaded friendzone is where I get it from. Or did you mean its dreaded because you wanted more than just friends?"

Because I would of liked it to have been more not because I don’t want her as a friend

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By *stellaWoman
over a year ago

London


"You guys get ay least offered friendship? "

Poor ol’ Lib.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Genuine friends are much harder to come by than sex, see it as a compliment xx

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By *ecadent_DevonMan
over a year ago

Okehampton

I’m so confused right now... poop poop

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I just had a phone call off a young lady I used to go to school with ...

Unusual she never calls

I’ve been chatting to her for the past 6 months or so ... going on socially distanced walks with the intentions of more after it’s safe

But tonight she said you’re my best friend

I’m too nice for my own good

"

A damn nuisance. I went to Uni late, so was about 10years older than most. Shared digs with a beautiful busty girl, really sweet and pretty too. Found some alone time with her and then the dreaded sentence. 'I love spending time with you, it'd like your my older brother'.

'Noooooooooooo!'

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By *hoco DMan
over a year ago

Clapham


"I just had a phone call off a young lady I used to go to school with ...

Unusual she never calls

I’ve been chatting to her for the past 6 months or so ... going on socially distanced walks with the intentions of more after it’s safe

But tonight she said you’re my best friend

I’m too nice for my own good

"

mate we have all been their, I was bullied most of my school life and the girls took pitty on me so had lots of female friends, most my male mates I did not make till ages were you start look at the opposite sex, so the guys want to be my friend to get to the girls so ended up being match maker so never got a look in.

it took me till my early 20s to learn this but you can actually put girls into the friend zone i think it maybe to late with girl as the parameters have been set.

in the future treat a girl you like how would a male friend, don't be over available, dont text every day asking how's she's doing, don't be at her bec and call no more you would with a male mate.

also try to make friends with females that you not lusting after

this will give you incite on how to friend zone some one you like and hopefully have them lust after you.

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By *carlet_woman_xxWoman
over a year ago

somewhere

Your stil my bestie

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I got friendzoned recently - didn't mind at all. Got on like a house on fire - a genuine great friend....

Until a week later he said he couldn't be friends anymore and had to "sort his shit out".

That was the only shitty, sucky thing about being friendzoned.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Okay a number of assumptions.

If you have told this lady that you have feelings for her and she has friendzoned you. Walk away. Waiting around for people to change and see you as you see them is fools errand

If you haven’t told her you have feelings for her but you do. Walk away. It will cut you up when she has other relationships until you get past your feelings. You are also being deceitful as you have feelings for her beyond friendship but are playing the friend “game” and not telling her how you really feel

If you don’t have any particular feelings for her but just want to “secret snuggle” then remain friends. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"why is it bad to be a woman's friend? i don’t know where you get that from this post

The dreaded friendzone is where I get it from. Or did you mean its dreaded because you wanted more than just friends?

Because I would of liked it to have been more not because I don’t want her as a friend "

Have you told her you want more?

Some married couples say they are married to their best friend. It doesn't mean there's no chance of a relationship.

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By *a LunaWoman
over a year ago

South Wales

Has nobody watched When Harry Met Sally?!

Love can grow. And sometimes love born from friendship is the most enduring.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm a bugger for friend zoning people

Once I know you / get on with you, I lose pretty much all interest in taking things to the bedroom

If I like you first, we aren't going to shag

If we shag first and I then find I like you, then that is when the fun starts

It's a skewed mentality to some degree

On the other hand, the net result is that whilst I haven't had loads of shags whilst swinging, I have made a handful of pretty good friends, so all is not lost

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm a bugger for friend zoning people

Once I know you / get on with you, I lose pretty much all interest in taking things to the bedroom

If I like you first, we aren't going to shag

If we shag first and I then find I like you, then that is when the fun starts

It's a skewed mentality to some degree

On the other hand, the net result is that whilst I haven't had loads of shags whilst swinging, I have made a handful of pretty good friends, so all is not lost "

I've just realised that sounded awfully arrogant

So, I will add that none of them expressed any direct intention that they wanted to fuck me in the first place

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By *stbury DavenportMan
over a year ago

Nottingham

[Removed by poster at 06/02/21 11:23:21]

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By *stbury DavenportMan
over a year ago

Nottingham


"what's so wrong with the friend zone? So you can't put your willy in her. Boohoo. Having a friend, someone you can talk to? That's more important than a shag that lasts a few minutes."

This, this, *this* right here is the fundamental difference in experience, values and understanding that causes almost all the conflict around the concept of the "friend zone".

No, "Having a friend, someone [I] can talk to" is *definitively not* "more important than a shag".

I have enough friends. The friend slots in my brain are more than adequately filled. I am not on Fab, Tinder and OKC looking for friends. I don't especially need any more people I can talk to.

Time for some sweeping generalisations.

My female friends frequently complain about how emotionally crushing they find it when they discover that guy they like "only" wants to shag them.

My male friends frequently complain about how emotionally crushing they find it when they discover that woman they want to have sex with only wants them for friendship.

In my personal experience: Women find it so easy to get sex that they prize friends more. Men, conversely, find it so easy to make friends that they prize sex more.

Hence the conflict around the idea "friend zone". Both sides thought the other wanted the thing they themselves find precious, and they didn't.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with making a new friend. But that's not what the man was looking for. All the emotion, time and energy they put into building that relationship was misplaced. They're not wanted, they have to start over elsewhere, and if they voice their disappointment with the turn of events, they're a bad person for insufficiently valuing friendship.

And it's hard. Constantly listening to people complaining about how they keep winning the lottery and it's just so terrible for them to have so very much of the thing the man wants most in the world. It stings.

It can be hard to remember that dehydration is a problem when you're drowning, and vice versa.

(Note: None of the above is an excuse for being a dick to the woman who just rejected you. Being disappointed is fine. Being a tosser is not.)

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By *entleman JayMan
over a year ago

Wakefield


"why is it bad to be a woman's friend? "

I’m friends with loads of women. It’s because they are far more interesting than men.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I get friend zoned an awful lot on here from people I’ve chatted to. I always put them first and encourage them to meet others. It’s my own fault, I often forget why I’m here lol

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"I get friend zoned an awful lot on here from people I’ve chatted to. I always put them first and encourage them to meet others. It’s my own fault, I often forget why I’m here lol

"

Might you encouraging them to meet others give them the impression that you have friend zoned them?

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"why is it bad to be a woman's friend?

I’m friends with loads of women. It’s because they are far more interesting than men. "

Good!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I get friend zoned an awful lot on here from people I’ve chatted to. I always put them first and encourage them to meet others. It’s my own fault, I often forget why I’m here lol

Might you encouraging them to meet others give them the impression that you have friend zoned them?"

Maybe, never thought of it like that. It’s not intentional, I just like to encourage people to seek what they want

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"what's so wrong with the friend zone? So you can't put your willy in her. Boohoo. Having a friend, someone you can talk to? That's more important than a shag that lasts a few minutes.

This, this, *this* right here is the fundamental difference in experience, values and understanding that causes almost all the conflict around the concept of the "friend zone".

No, "Having a friend, someone [I] can talk to" is *definitively not* "more important than a shag".

I have enough friends. The friend slots in my brain are more than adequately filled. I am not on Fab, Tinder and OKC looking for friends. I don't especially need any more people I can talk to.

Time for some sweeping generalisations.

My female friends frequently complain about how emotionally crushing they find it when they discover that guy they like "only" wants to shag them.

My male friends frequently complain about how emotionally crushing they find it when they discover that woman they want to have sex with only wants them for friendship.

In my personal experience: Women find it so easy to get sex that they prize friends more. Men, conversely, find it so easy to make friends that they prize sex more.

Hence the conflict around the idea "friend zone". Both sides thought the other wanted the thing they themselves find precious, and they didn't.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with making a new friend. But that's not what the man was looking for. All the emotion, time and energy they put into building that relationship was misplaced. They're not wanted, they have to start over elsewhere, and if they voice their disappointment with the turn of events, they're a bad person for insufficiently valuing friendship.

And it's hard. Constantly listening to people complaining about how they keep winning the lottery and it's just so terrible for them to have so very much of the thing the man wants most in the world. It stings.

It can be hard to remember that dehydration is a problem when you're drowning, and vice versa.

(Note: None of the above is an excuse for being a dick to the woman who just rejected you. Being disappointed is fine. Being a tosser is not.)"

This is valuable and insightful. Thank you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Thinking through my (few) male friends (not work colleagues) I've fumbled with or fucked most and then friend zoned them when I realised we weren't sexually compatible. And some guys where I thought we could be friends, (watch movies on my heaviest period day as a recent example) aren't interested in anything other than a fuck. Which is fine as long as I know where I stand

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

I've never understood what is so nice about only meeting up with someone because you believe you're going to get laid at the end of it then being pissed off when it doesn't happen. Either make your intentions clearer or stop complaining. If you're not looking for friends, say so. Stop leading people to believe you care when you don't, you just want something out of it.

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By *ecadent_DevonMan
over a year ago

Okehampton

I have women that are friends. I don’t want to sleep with them, I have never wanted to sleep with them, I do not have intense emotional feelings towards them beyond the bonds of friendship.

If I did and I didn’t articulate those feelings, what would be perceived as my motivation for that friendship? Wouldn’t it be wrong to outwardly portray friendship when inwardly you want more? Isn’t that deceitful? What happens if this “friend” finds out in a few months/years time that I had those feelings. Would they question the reason for my friendship over that time? (No matter how genuine I may have been with “acts of friendship”) How would that make them feel?

If I had articulated those feelings and I was rejected, should I remain in that persons “scene” as their new best friend? Wouldn’t that be awkward? Wouldn’t that be uncomfortable for both? What if your new best friend, found a long-term partner? How would they feel? “Oh don’t mind Paul, he once told me he had feelings for me, but I rejected him and now we are just best friends”. Or would you only be “best friends” until that point.

I think in an ideal world, taking out human emotions, hurt and desire of course we could declare feelings for someone, get rejected and carry on being good friends, but if you are able to do that so easily I would question whether the feelings you had in the first place were real.

It’s a brave person that declares their feelings for someone, because they know that they could lose the company of the one they feel strongly about. But to hang around after the fact or to not declare in the first place, leads to a half life where you will not progress but stagnate in a circle of hope.

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By *_elia DominaTV/TS
over a year ago

Edinburgh (She/Her)

No such thing as friends zone!!!

She is just not into you in a sexual way. Doesn't see you as sexual partner.

If all you wanted was to do was fuck her. Then you should have told her from the start.

End off.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool


"I have women that are friends. I don’t want to sleep with them, I have never wanted to sleep with them, I do not have intense emotional feelings towards them beyond the bonds of friendship.

If I did and I didn’t articulate those feelings, what would be perceived as my motivation for that friendship? Wouldn’t it be wrong to outwardly portray friendship when inwardly you want more? Isn’t that deceitful? What happens if this “friend” finds out in a few months/years time that I had those feelings. Would they question the reason for my friendship over that time? (No matter how genuine I may have been with “acts of friendship”) How would that make them feel?

If I had articulated those feelings and I was rejected, should I remain in that persons “scene” as their new best friend? Wouldn’t that be awkward? Wouldn’t that be uncomfortable for both? What if your new best friend, found a long-term partner? How would they feel? “Oh don’t mind Paul, he once told me he had feelings for me, but I rejected him and now we are just best friends”. Or would you only be “best friends” until that point.

I think in an ideal world, taking out human emotions, hurt and desire of course we could declare feelings for someone, get rejected and carry on being good friends, but if you are able to do that so easily I would question whether the feelings you had in the first place were real.

It’s a brave person that declares their feelings for someone, because they know that they could lose the company of the one they feel strongly about. But to hang around after the fact or to not declare in the first place, leads to a half life where you will not progress but stagnate in a circle of hope. "

Totally agree. If you want different things, it's a recipe for disaster. Playing the friend role when you're really just secretly hoping for something else is hurtful to both of you.

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By *eliWoman
over a year ago

.


"I've never understood what is so nice about only meeting up with someone because you believe you're going to get laid at the end of it then being pissed off when it doesn't happen. Either make your intentions clearer or stop complaining. If you're not looking for friends, say so. Stop leading people to believe you care when you don't, you just want something out of it. "

Thanks Lacey for articulating so well what I poorly did last night.

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall


"I have women that are friends. I don’t want to sleep with them, I have never wanted to sleep with them, I do not have intense emotional feelings towards them beyond the bonds of friendship.

If I did and I didn’t articulate those feelings, what would be perceived as my motivation for that friendship? Wouldn’t it be wrong to outwardly portray friendship when inwardly you want more? Isn’t that deceitful? What happens if this “friend” finds out in a few months/years time that I had those feelings. Would they question the reason for my friendship over that time? (No matter how genuine I may have been with “acts of friendship”) How would that make them feel?

If I had articulated those feelings and I was rejected, should I remain in that persons “scene” as their new best friend? Wouldn’t that be awkward? Wouldn’t that be uncomfortable for both? What if your new best friend, found a long-term partner? How would they feel? “Oh don’t mind Paul, he once told me he had feelings for me, but I rejected him and now we are just best friends”. Or would you only be “best friends” until that point.

I think in an ideal world, taking out human emotions, hurt and desire of course we could declare feelings for someone, get rejected and carry on being good friends, but if you are able to do that so easily I would question whether the feelings you had in the first place were real.

It’s a brave person that declares their feelings for someone, because they know that they could lose the company of the one they feel strongly about. But to hang around after the fact or to not declare in the first place, leads to a half life where you will not progress but stagnate in a circle of hope.

Totally agree. If you want different things, it's a recipe for disaster. Playing the friend role when you're really just secretly hoping for something else is hurtful to both of you. "

Yes, agreed here. She doesn’t want to be romantically or sexually involved, she’s told you that. It’s only fair that you return the honesty and tell her that you’re not interested in being only friends. You can then both move on and find what you both actually want, albeit with other people.

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall


"No such thing as friends zone!!!

She is just not into you in a sexual way. Doesn't see you as sexual partner.

If all you wanted was to do was fuck her. Then you should have told her from the start.

End off.

"

Sounds like he wanted more than just sex.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What's wrong with that?

Did she say that's all you were?

Look at the news, married couples together 60yrs, widows/widowers, newlyweds, they all call their partner not just their partner but their best friend.

It's a good thing. Be the best friend you can and if things develop into more, great

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By *stbury DavenportMan
over a year ago

Nottingham


"This is valuable and insightful. Thank you."

Thank *you*. I'm really relieved and pleased that someone got something out of it (even if it was only a new-found determination to steer well clear of the likes of me).

I'm always very cautious about articulating any of the above. The "manosphere" types have so poisoned the discourse around the concept of the "friend zone" that it's risky to even mention it lest one be immediately lumped in with the entitled misogynists.


"I've never understood what is so nice about only meeting up with someone because you believe you're going to get laid at the end of it then being pissed off when it doesn't happen. Either make your intentions clearer or stop complaining. If you're not looking for friends, say so. Stop leading people to believe you care when you don't, you just want something out of it."

This leads us nicely into what I think is the main pitfall leading to the "friend zone".

Picture this: You're a man. You see a woman you'd like to have sex with.

I think it's safe to say that opening the conversation with "Hello. I don't want to be your friend, but would you like to fuck?" is The Wrong Thing To Do™. It would be nice to live in a world where it's safe to be that open about sexual matters, but we really don't.

Instead, you talk to her as you would any other human being. You're polite. You're civil. You're warm, funny and charming, to the best of your abilities. It's going well. You think there's a connection.

Then, as carefully and politely as you can, you demonstrate sexual interest. In response, you're immediately hit with "Oh my God, you only want me for sex! I thought you were my friend!"

Yes, okay, I understand her disappointment. It's real and valid; parallel to what I feel when I discover that the person I hoped wanted to fuck me only wants to be mates.

What's the other option, though? If you express sexual interest right out of the gate, you're a creep. If you only express it later, you're dishonest and led them on.

From my point of view, which I believe to be roughly representative of the male perspective, it feels like a lose/lose situation.

If there's an easy answer to this, I haven't figured it out yet.

(Again, worth restating: Disappointment over rejection is never, ever an excuse for being a dick towards the person who didn't feel the same as you did. Feeling hurt is fine; lashing out in response is not.)

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By *stbury DavenportMan
over a year ago

Nottingham

Oh, and I should also point out that "friend" and "sexual partner" aren't necessarily separate things. I think almost all of my sexual partners are my friends *as well*.

I have a massively disproportionate number of female friends. This isn't because I'm handsome or rich or charming or anything; it's solely because I tried it on with them, crashed and burned, and then *continued to treat them like a human being anyway*. Yes, even though they don't want to fuck me. More men should try it.

Some of them changed their minds and fucked me later. Most of them didn't. Both outcomes are perfectly fine and valid.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool


"This is valuable and insightful. Thank you.

Thank *you*. I'm really relieved and pleased that someone got something out of it (even if it was only a new-found determination to steer well clear of the likes of me).

I'm always very cautious about articulating any of the above. The "manosphere" types have so poisoned the discourse around the concept of the "friend zone" that it's risky to even mention it lest one be immediately lumped in with the entitled misogynists.

I've never understood what is so nice about only meeting up with someone because you believe you're going to get laid at the end of it then being pissed off when it doesn't happen. Either make your intentions clearer or stop complaining. If you're not looking for friends, say so. Stop leading people to believe you care when you don't, you just want something out of it.

This leads us nicely into what I think is the main pitfall leading to the "friend zone".

Picture this: You're a man. You see a woman you'd like to have sex with.

I think it's safe to say that opening the conversation with "Hello. I don't want to be your friend, but would you like to fuck?" is The Wrong Thing To Do™. It would be nice to live in a world where it's safe to be that open about sexual matters, but we really don't.

Instead, you talk to her as you would any other human being. You're polite. You're civil. You're warm, funny and charming, to the best of your abilities. It's going well. You think there's a connection.

Then, as carefully and politely as you can, you demonstrate sexual interest. In response, you're immediately hit with "Oh my God, you only want me for sex! I thought you were my friend!"

Yes, okay, I understand her disappointment. It's real and valid; parallel to what I feel when I discover that the person I hoped wanted to fuck me only wants to be mates.

What's the other option, though? If you express sexual interest right out of the gate, you're a creep. If you only express it later, you're dishonest and led them on.

From my point of view, which I believe to be roughly representative of the male perspective, it feels like a lose/lose situation.

If there's an easy answer to this, I haven't figured it out yet.

(Again, worth restating: Disappointment over rejection is never, ever an excuse for being a dick towards the person who didn't feel the same as you did. Feeling hurt is fine; lashing out in response is not.)

"

He's been meeting up with this woman for 6 months. If 6 months in she thinks they're friends, he hasn't made his intentions clear enough. If you've been interacting long enough for someone to think of you as a friend and be upset at the thought of losing that friendship, you haven't made your intentions clear enough for a significant amount of time. There' s plenty of room between asking for sex the moment you meet someone and waiting until someone has a significant, platonic connection to you. It's rare that if a few weeks in you discover that one wants friendship and the other wants sex/dating that anyone will be more than mildly dissapointed. If you've developed that much attachment to someone in that time then you probably have bigger issues. What a lot of men seem to do is spend months, even years hanging around a woman without ever being explicit about what he really wants and then complains about being friendzoned and being "too nice" as soon as the woman is explicit about her lack of sexual/romantic interest. I get that confidence and self esteem issues are a thing but people don't get sex/relationships just by hanging around long enough. You have to put work into making it happen. Being annoyed that a woman you have spent significant amounts of time around without showing romantic or sexual interest sees you as a friend is kinda shitty as that's just the logical conclusion most people would come to in that situation.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

If a man is being friendly towards me in a social situation is it safe to assume that it's highly likely he hopes to have sex with me? If I'm friendly towards him is it safe to assume that he's interpreting my actions as wanting to have sex with him? *in most cases, not all*

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"This is valuable and insightful. Thank you.

Thank *you*. I'm really relieved and pleased that someone got something out of it (even if it was only a new-found determination to steer well clear of the likes of me).

I'm always very cautious about articulating any of the above. The "manosphere" types have so poisoned the discourse around the concept of the "friend zone" that it's risky to even mention it lest one be immediately lumped in with the entitled misogynists.

I've never understood what is so nice about only meeting up with someone because you believe you're going to get laid at the end of it then being pissed off when it doesn't happen. Either make your intentions clearer or stop complaining. If you're not looking for friends, say so. Stop leading people to believe you care when you don't, you just want something out of it.

This leads us nicely into what I think is the main pitfall leading to the "friend zone".

Picture this: You're a man. You see a woman you'd like to have sex with.

I think it's safe to say that opening the conversation with "Hello. I don't want to be your friend, but would you like to fuck?" is The Wrong Thing To Do™. It would be nice to live in a world where it's safe to be that open about sexual matters, but we really don't.

Instead, you talk to her as you would any other human being. You're polite. You're civil. You're warm, funny and charming, to the best of your abilities. It's going well. You think there's a connection.

Then, as carefully and politely as you can, you demonstrate sexual interest. In response, you're immediately hit with "Oh my God, you only want me for sex! I thought you were my friend!"

Yes, okay, I understand her disappointment. It's real and valid; parallel to what I feel when I discover that the person I hoped wanted to fuck me only wants to be mates.

What's the other option, though? If you express sexual interest right out of the gate, you're a creep. If you only express it later, you're dishonest and led them on.

From my point of view, which I believe to be roughly representative of the male perspective, it feels like a lose/lose situation.

If there's an easy answer to this, I haven't figured it out yet.

(Again, worth restating: Disappointment over rejection is never, ever an excuse for being a dick towards the person who didn't feel the same as you did. Feeling hurt is fine; lashing out in response is not.)

He's been meeting up with this woman for 6 months. If 6 months in she thinks they're friends, he hasn't made his intentions clear enough. If you've been interacting long enough for someone to think of you as a friend and be upset at the thought of losing that friendship, you haven't made your intentions clear enough for a significant amount of time. There' s plenty of room between asking for sex the moment you meet someone and waiting until someone has a significant, platonic connection to you. It's rare that if a few weeks in you discover that one wants friendship and the other wants sex/dating that anyone will be more than mildly dissapointed. If you've developed that much attachment to someone in that time then you probably have bigger issues. What a lot of men seem to do is spend months, even years hanging around a woman without ever being explicit about what he really wants and then complains about being friendzoned and being "too nice" as soon as the woman is explicit about her lack of sexual/romantic interest. I get that confidence and self esteem issues are a thing but people don't get sex/relationships just by hanging around long enough. You have to put work into making it happen. Being annoyed that a woman you have spent significant amounts of time around without showing romantic or sexual interest sees you as a friend is kinda shitty as that's just the logical conclusion most people would come to in that situation. "

Yep!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I married my best friend but she decided to find another best friend without telling me

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By *stbury DavenportMan
over a year ago

Nottingham


"There's plenty of room between asking for sex the moment you meet someone and waiting until someone has a significant, platonic connection to you."

And, somewhere in that room, there is a line. Move too soon and you're a creep. Move too late and you're dishonest.

How do you tell when enough time has elapsed?

How do you tell when they've developed "a significant, platonic connection to you"?

There's no way of knowing these things.

The line in that room is invisible. You can only detect it by crossing it, and by the time you've crossed it, it's too late.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"There's plenty of room between asking for sex the moment you meet someone and waiting until someone has a significant, platonic connection to you.

And, somewhere in that room, there is a line. Move too soon and you're a creep. Move too late and you're dishonest.

How do you tell when enough time has elapsed?

How do you tell when they've developed "a significant, platonic connection to you"?

There's no way of knowing these things.

The line in that room is invisible. You can only detect it by crossing it, and by the time you've crossed it, it's too late. "

There is a way of knowing these things. You speak to the person and explain how you're feeling.

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By *stbury DavenportMan
over a year ago

Nottingham

[Removed by poster at 06/02/21 13:47:24]

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By *stbury DavenportMan
over a year ago

Nottingham


"There is a way of knowing these things. You speak to the person and explain how you're feeling."

... and in doing so get branded a creep because you've moved too soon, or dishonest because you've moved too late.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool


"There's plenty of room between asking for sex the moment you meet someone and waiting until someone has a significant, platonic connection to you.

And, somewhere in that room, there is a line. Move too soon and you're a creep. Move too late and you're dishonest.

How do you tell when enough time has elapsed?

How do you tell when they've developed "a significant, platonic connection to you"?

There's no way of knowing these things.

The line in that room is invisible. You can only detect it by crossing it, and by the time you've crossed it, it's too late. "

Since when has some time between the first minute and months been a line? There will be variation between people but there's generally an overlap of a pretty damn big window. Significant platonic connections don't develop overnight. There's plenty of time to make your intentions clear. People might not always react the way you want to them but that's life. It's better to get it over with and out the way rather than waiting until its more likely to cause hurt when it comes out you both want different things after spending significant amounts of time together and developing an attachment. Or is it just easier to portray women as impossibly difficult?

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By *eliWoman
over a year ago

.


"There is a way of knowing these things. You speak to the person and explain how you're feeling.

... and in doing so get branded a creep because you've moved too soon, or dishonest because you've moved too late. "

Or branded neither of those things because life isn't so black and white and there are a myriad of responses that can be given, without any negative branding.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"There is a way of knowing these things. You speak to the person and explain how you're feeling.

... and in doing so get branded a creep because you've moved too soon, or dishonest because you've moved too late. "

I'm all my years alive I have only branded a guy creepy if he genuinely is. Being approached , having a conversation and after a period of time that conversation moving towards our friendship becoming sexual isn't creepy or dishonest

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By *iaisonseekerMan
over a year ago

Liverpool


"There's plenty of room between asking for sex the moment you meet someone and waiting until someone has a significant, platonic connection to you.

And, somewhere in that room, there is a line. Move too soon and you're a creep. Move too late and you're dishonest.

How do you tell when enough time has elapsed?

How do you tell when they've developed "a significant, platonic connection to you"?

There's no way of knowing these things.

The line in that room is invisible. You can only detect it by crossing it, and by the time you've crossed it, it's too late.

Since when has some time between the first minute and months been a line? There will be variation between people but there's generally an overlap of a pretty damn big window. Significant platonic connections don't develop overnight. There's plenty of time to make your intentions clear. People might not always react the way you want to them but that's life. It's better to get it over with and out the way rather than waiting until its more likely to cause hurt when it comes out you both want different things after spending significant amounts of time together and developing an attachment. Or is it just easier to portray women as impossibly difficult? "

What you mean Nietzcshe was wrong about women being the unknowable embodiment of the mysteries of the universe?

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By *stbury DavenportMan
over a year ago

Nottingham


"Since when has some time between the first minute and months been a line?"

I didn't say that. To quote myself from above: "somewhere in that room, there is a line".


"There will be variation between people but there's generally an overlap of a pretty damn big window."

Great. Where?


"It's better to get it over with and out the way..."

... but not too soon, right?


"...rather than waiting until its more likely to cause hurt"

... which is the "too late" I've been talking about.


"Or is it just easier to portray women as impossibly difficult?"

Not women. *Humans*.

I deeply, deeply wish that we lived in a world where it was acceptable to go up to someone I like the look of, say "Hello. I find you very attractive. Would you like to have sex?" They can then say yes or no; if they say yes, great, we go off and have sex; if they say no, I can say "Okay, great. I understand. I'm sorry to have troubled you" and go respectfully on my way.

Unfortunately, for lots of complicated reasons, that world doesn't exist, and won't inside my lifetime. Ho hum!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Some women and some men seem quite incapable of interacting with each other in any kind of straightforward way.

I don't like that kind of dance.

And I really think some of us are responsible for overcomplicating the most simple of things

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Since when has some time between the first minute and months been a line?

I didn't say that. To quote myself from above: "somewhere in that room, there is a line".

There will be variation between people but there's generally an overlap of a pretty damn big window.

Great. Where?

It's better to get it over with and out the way...

... but not too soon, right?

...rather than waiting until its more likely to cause hurt

... which is the "too late" I've been talking about.

Or is it just easier to portray women as impossibly difficult?

Not women. *Humans*.

I deeply, deeply wish that we lived in a world where it was acceptable to go up to someone I like the look of, say "Hello. I find you very attractive. Would you like to have sex?" They can then say yes or no; if they say yes, great, we go off and have sex; if they say no, I can say "Okay, great. I understand. I'm sorry to have troubled you" and go respectfully on my way.

Unfortunately, for lots of complicated reasons, that world doesn't exist, and won't inside my lifetime. Ho hum! "

That sounds quite cold almost and quite transactional

There are warmer more sociable ways to achieve the same goal

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool


"Since when has some time between the first minute and months been a line?

I didn't say that. To quote myself from above: "somewhere in that room, there is a line".

There will be variation between people but there's generally an overlap of a pretty damn big window.

Great. Where?

It's better to get it over with and out the way...

... but not too soon, right?

...rather than waiting until its more likely to cause hurt

... which is the "too late" I've been talking about.

Or is it just easier to portray women as impossibly difficult?

Not women. *Humans*.

I deeply, deeply wish that we lived in a world where it was acceptable to go up to someone I like the look of, say "Hello. I find you very attractive. Would you like to have sex?" They can then say yes or no; if they say yes, great, we go off and have sex; if they say no, I can say "Okay, great. I understand. I'm sorry to have troubled you" and go respectfully on my way.

Unfortunately, for lots of complicated reasons, that world doesn't exist, and won't inside my lifetime. Ho hum! "

There is no line. There's a huge window. If women asking not to be asked for sex the instant they meet you but also for you not to leave it until months down the line to make your intentions known is too complicated then god help the human race.

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