FabSwingers.com forum: Women owe you nothing ...

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I just read this quote on insta, and I’d be interested in peoples opinion/reactions to this quote

“Women owe you nothing. Not a smile, not a glance, not a nod, not attention, not conversation, not even the time of day”

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Quotes like this are usually a vent from someone who has been stung or hurt by others. Of course we don't owe any of those things but as people kindness, a smile and conversation to someone who needs it goes a long way

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Quotes like this are usually a vent from someone who has been stung or hurt by others. Of course we don't owe any of those things but as people kindness, a smile and conversation to someone who needs it goes a long way

Yes this

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By *ecadent_DevonMan
over a year ago

Okehampton

I’m not sure why it’s restricted to just women. However if the whole world walks around not acknowledging one another not sharing glances and smiles then the world will be a poorer place.

Perhaps the quote should be “sometimes a smile is just a smile, a recognition and affirmation that two souls, for a split second on this vast blue bauble of a world took the time to see someone else, it was not an invitation to copulate”

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I dunno, some people need reminding that kindnesses are given not owed.

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

Doesnt sound a very nice way to live not interacting with people

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I’m not sure why it’s restricted to just women. However if the whole world walks around not acknowledging one another not sharing glances and smiles then the world will be a poorer place.

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By *lba2022Man
over a year ago

Newcastle

Treat others as how you wish to be treated

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've not read it but my friend highly rates a book called "women don't owe you pretty" it challenges old ideals that we should be, look and act a certain way in order to be worthy.

Whilst I'm not much of a feminist I do think there's some merit in it.

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By *ablo minibar123Woman
over a year ago

I can understand the smile thing. I hate being told to smile, why is it so important to someone else that you put on a fake smile. I will smile only when I feel like smiling not for other people's benefit.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I’m not saying this is my opinion. I just found it an interesting quote, and j was fascinated by what arose in me when I read it.

I am all for spreading smiles/eye contact/ cheery greetings

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It sounds a wee bit snooty

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I’m not sure why it’s restricted to just women. However if the whole world walks around not acknowledging one another not sharing glances and smiles then the world will be a poorer place.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

I think it's aimed at *some* men. You know, the kind of man who calls a woman a miserable hitch if she doesn't respond to him shouting "oi oi show us yer tits" with a cheery grin or an indulgent smile whilst thinking "those boys, what will they get up to next"

Or maybe its aimed at *some* women who criticise other women for not being how they think women should be.

I think there's a lot pressure put on everyone to be a certain way but my observation is that there is an awful lot of pressure put on women to please men, even in 2021.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I just read this quote on insta, and I’d be interested in peoples opinion/reactions to this quote

“Women owe you nothing. Not a smile, not a glance, not a nod, not attention, not conversation, not even the time of day”"

At the moment, one woman owes me £3k, one owes me £800 and the last owes me £950 and two blowjobs.

Although to be fair to the last one- she keeps offering the bjs but by that time of day I'm usually not in the mood !

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By *layfullsamMan
over a year ago

Solihull

"I just read this quote on insta, and I’d be interested in peoples opinion/reactions to this quote

“Women owe you nothing. Not a smile, not a glance, not a nod, not attention, not conversation, not even the time of day”"

I had a Mc Donald's drive through server that was following that philosophy once

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It was probably written by someone who was fed up of "cheer up love, it might never happen!" comments. It's ok to want to be left alone.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I just read this quote on insta, and I’d be interested in peoples opinion/reactions to this quote

“Women owe you nothing. Not a smile, not a glance, not a nod, not attention, not conversation, not even the time of day”"

In the right context, I agree. I feel like this is aimed at 'those men' you know, the ones who catcall you in the street and then tell you to give them a smile. Or the men on here who think they're entitled to a reply to their "Hey bbe, wna fuck?" messages.

I wouldn't think that this is meant towards everyone.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I’m not saying this is my opinion. I just found it an interesting quote, and j was fascinated by what arose in me when I read it.

I am all for spreading smiles/eye contact/ cheery greetings

Can't beat a smile from a stranger, just that little thing can make your day

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Some males can take a smile or friendly polite conversation totally the wrong way.

Going about our daily business complete strangers are just that we indeed owe them nothing, regardless of gender.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I can understand the smile thing. I hate being told to smile, why is it so important to someone else that you put on a fake smile. I will smile only when I feel like smiling not for other people's benefit."

Are they not just saying to smile as a way of saying "cheer up" ?

Just that they are not good at articulating.

Maybe better if they ask "whats up, how come you looking unhappy?"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Are they not just saying to smile as a way of saying "cheer up" ?

Just that they are not good at articulating.

Maybe better if they ask "whats up, how come you looking unhappy?"

I'm sure some people say "smile" as some weird chat up line. But most say it because they care.

Even when I'm so sad I want to rip my own head off, a smile or a nod from a stranger can feel nice.

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By *ecadent_DevonMan
over a year ago

Okehampton

"I just read this quote on insta, and I’d be interested in peoples opinion/reactions to this quote

“Women owe you nothing. Not a smile, not a glance, not a nod, not attention, not conversation, not even the time of day”

I wouldn't think that this is meant towards everyone."

Okay I am not going to go all “woke” here but I am amazed that such men exist, they obviously do, as women on here and in life in general keep reporting these experiences but I wonder.

A) has shouting “ere love, show us your tits” in the street every resulted in tits being shown, because if it hasn’t, then that is some kind of optimism that is bordering on insanity

B) has anyone (man or woman) ever instantly cheered up because someone said “cheer up” again, as it seems so prevalent a phrase to be uttered it must have achieved a modicum of success

Of course, these may be the last utterances of a section of our society that is at an evolutionary dead end and these are their last vain hopes to join the breeding pool and continue their lineage

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By *asilyled1Man
over a year ago

ogmore valley

"Treat others as how you wish to be treated "

Exactly

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I just read this quote on insta, and I’d be interested in peoples opinion/reactions to this quote

“Women owe you nothing. Not a smile, not a glance, not a nod, not attention, not conversation, not even the time of day”

I wouldn't think that this is meant towards everyone.

Okay I am not going to go all “woke” here but I am amazed that such men exist, they obviously do, as women on here and in life in general keep reporting these experiences but I wonder.

A) has shouting “ere love, show us your tits” in the street every resulted in tits being shown, because if it hasn’t, then that is some kind of optimism that is bordering on insanity

B) has anyone (man or woman) ever instantly cheered up because someone said “cheer up” again, as it seems so prevalent a phrase to be uttered it must have achieved a modicum of success

Of course, these may be the last utterances of a section of our society that is at an evolutionary dead end and these are their last vain hopes to join the breeding pool and continue their lineage "

That section of society is still very much alive and kicking, unfortunately.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think the point of that meme is some women are having the gall to try and engineer a world where they can nip down the shops without being flirted with. Whatever next eh.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"I just read this quote on insta, and I’d be interested in peoples opinion/reactions to this quote

“Women owe you nothing. Not a smile, not a glance, not a nod, not attention, not conversation, not even the time of day”"

How about turning this round to say

"You are entitled to nothing from strangers but basic respect"

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By *arbarianzCouple
over a year ago

BARNSTAPLE

Yeah, I have to confess, the latter sentence is way better, woman AND men owe you nothing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you want your walk out for exercise to be full of hellos, smiles and conversation then get yourself a dog.

I live alone and during the last year could go for days without speaking to someone face to face. Except when I walk my little dog. She is very friendly and loves meeting everyone. She brightens up everyone’s day and it is easy to speak to strangers in a totally non threatening, non sleezy way.

So I don’t owe anyone a smile, hello or a chat - but Poppy and I choose to share them, it brightens up our day and lets us spread some sunshine in these dreadful times.

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By *ex HolesMan
over a year ago

Up North

In that case us men don’t owe you the penis

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I’m not sure why it’s restricted to just women. However if the whole world walks around not acknowledging one another not sharing glances and smiles then the world will be a poorer place.

Can i ask How many times you have been told by a completely random man to smile love?

Because I can tell you I have several times.

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By *host63Man
over a year ago

Bedfont Feltham

You could flip that and put men in its place.

But how would people feel if you were met with indifference?

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By *emorefridaCouple
over a year ago

La la land

I see lots of these memes, and of course we don't owe anybody anything. But I think it's always nice to be courteous to everyone.

What I've noticed though there are loads of these kind of meme's for women who inevitable share it and it's generally females who will read it. You rarely see a meme saying something about "man up" or "grow some balls" is bad. So I always wonder are they really changing the way society thinks?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Lots of interesting comments and opinions.

I agree, that smiles, greetings, brief chats etc are a lovely way to live your life, and it’s the way I do things (I talk to everyone-probably look a bit mad sometimes

), but I guess it’s the expectation that we ‘should’?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"“Women owe you nothing. Not a smile, not a glance, not a nod, not attention, not conversation, not even the time of day”"

Of course this is true but it's also very bitter. Is it the intention to cow all men into a state of perpetual fear of ever engaging with women?

As a man I have never felt entitled to or owed any of these things, but I have nearly always wanted them. Am I supposed to feel guilty for that?

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By *ecadent_DevonMan
over a year ago

Okehampton

"I’m not sure why it’s restricted to just women. However if the whole world walks around not acknowledging one another not sharing glances and smiles then the world will be a poorer place.

Can i ask How many times you have been told by a completely random man to smile love?

Because I can tell you I have several times."

Erm. To be honest, where I live, not so much, but then I live in the middle of nowhere.

Having said that nowhere in my reply that you quoted did i mention anyone “asking” someone to smile.....more that from the original OPs quote (which she has acknowledged was something she read) women don’t owe anyone anything, of course they don’t, no one owes anyone anything. But smiles can be freely given and be just that “a smile”, which was the point I was making

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"“Women owe you nothing. Not a smile, not a glance, not a nod, not attention, not conversation, not even the time of day”

Of course this is true but it's also very bitter. Is it the intention to cow all men into a state of perpetual fear of ever engaging with women?

As a man I have never felt entitled to or owed any of these things, but I have nearly always wanted them. Am I supposed to feel guilty for that?"

No, you aren't. The type of person the quote is aimed at (and it doesn't specify that it's men) is the type of person who won't take any notice of it anyway.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

100% we can all do with niceness in our lives and what better way than being nice ourselves

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I just read this quote on insta, and I’d be interested in peoples opinion/reactions to this quote

“Women owe you nothing. Not a smile, not a glance, not a nod, not attention, not conversation, not even the time of day”"

As a male I tend to agree with the quote but it’s always nice if they freely give you a smile a glance attention conversation and it’s great if they can tell the time!!!!

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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago

Dubai & Nottingham

"I just read this quote on insta, and I’d be interested in peoples opinion/reactions to this quote

“Women owe you nothing. Not a smile, not a glance, not a nod, not attention, not conversation, not even the time of day”"

Sounds quite negative from a place of hurt/pain. Don’t have much time for people who propagate their own hurt and problems onto the rest of us. Maybe the quote should be “handle with care I hurt, but when I’m well I’m awesome”

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I’m not sure why it’s restricted to just women. However if the whole world walks around not acknowledging one another not sharing glances and smiles then the world will be a poorer place.

Can i ask How many times you have been told by a completely random man to smile love?

Because I can tell you I have several times.

Erm. To be honest, where I live, not so much, but then I live in the middle of nowhere.

Yes I get that but my point was some feel entitled to that smile.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"I just read this quote on insta, and I’d be interested in peoples opinion/reactions to this quote

“Women owe you nothing. Not a smile, not a glance, not a nod, not attention, not conversation, not even the time of day”"

Interesting to see the assumptions being made and the assertions that fit the male misogyny and males "doing it" narrative.

"you' in the above could be male or female or at the very least non gender specific.

It is however an accurate statement and if it replaced women with 'people" would be equally true. It's a good quote to debate and says more about the readers prejudices, aspirations, experiences and values than it does about the writers.

Or one can reflect upon the sentiment of the word "owe" in the sentence. "are free to choose to"...

Very thought provoking op... Nice one.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

It's interesting how different people have interpreted this.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I just read this quote on insta, and I’d be interested in peoples opinion/reactions to this quote

“Women owe you nothing. Not a smile, not a glance, not a nod, not attention, not conversation, not even the time of day”

Interesting to see the assumptions being made and the assertions that fit the male misogyny and males "doing it" narrative.

"you' in the above could be male or female or at the very least non gender specific.

Or one can reflect upon the sentiment of the word "owe" in the sentence. "are free to choose to"...

Very thought provoking op... Nice one. "

Thank you. I’m enjoying reading the comments and opinions

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"It's interesting how different people have interpreted this. "

Isn’t it. It made me think, so I was interested in other peoples take on it

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Are they not just saying to smile as a way of saying "cheer up" ?

Just that they are not good at articulating.

Maybe better if they ask "whats up, how come you looking unhappy?"

One, it's not their business, two, since when does that ever work?

Three, why do some of them scream abuse at you when you ignore them?

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By *andy 1Couple
over a year ago

northeast

i think women r brill came out of 1 and tried to get back into 1,000s i give them a big

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By *emini ManMan
over a year ago

There and to the left a bit

Memes like that are the grown up version of the Athena posters of the 70s/80s - words of inspiration that are actually of more meaning to the sender/owner than any recipient/casual reader.

As has been said, the intended target of words like that is unlikely to pay it any attention, and those in agreement with it don't really need to be told it.

Sometimes memes strike a chord with me, but for personal reasons, or because I know someone that will relate to them - but that is about the extent of their usefulness for me.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

I think we do owe others basic human respect but I get that these quotes are often a result of men feeling entitled to far more than that. Also some have a pretty warped idea of what basic human respect is.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I just read this quote on insta, and I’d be interested in peoples opinion/reactions to this quote

“Women owe you nothing. Not a smile, not a glance, not a nod, not attention, not conversation, not even the time of day”

I love this!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I just read this quote on insta, and I’d be interested in peoples opinion/reactions to this quote

“Women owe you nothing. Not a smile, not a glance, not a nod, not attention, not conversation, not even the time of day”

Interesting to see the assumptions being made and the assertions that fit the male misogyny and males "doing it" narrative.

"you' in the above could be male or female or at the very least non gender specific.

Or one can reflect upon the sentiment of the word "owe" in the sentence. "are free to choose to"...

Very thought provoking op... Nice one.

Thank you. I’m enjoying reading the comments and opinions

Great thread.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I just read this quote on insta, and I’d be interested in peoples opinion/reactions to this quote

“Women owe you nothing. Not a smile, not a glance, not a nod, not attention, not conversation, not even the time of day”"

I'm amazed at the responses on this thread . Everyone has commented with the inference that that this wee comment must refer to a man .

Nobody has a fuckin clue who its aimed at apart from " you ".

How about we switch the the thought its aimed at men and put a nurse or a paramedic in , in place of a man

Women owe the nurse treating her nothing

No smile for the nurse treating her

Not a nod for the doctor helping her

No conversation to the paramedic picking her up

And no time of day for the nurse holding her hand.

Actually the woman that lives by this meme sounds like a cunt and I hope she dies . Simple

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By *mmixtapeCouple
over a year ago

middle earth

I have to agree and wish more people Heald the same opinion, no one has to do anything for you.

When I go on chat rooms for example,or get a message from some guy trying to impose upon me it grinds me, but I don't owe them anything, not even an acknowledgement. I think most women can relate to recieving sexist comments, or just unwanted comments, it's just an Instagram post but makes a point

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I just read this quote on insta, and I’d be interested in peoples opinion/reactions to this quote

“Women owe you nothing. Not a smile, not a glance, not a nod, not attention, not conversation, not even the time of day”

Interesting to see the assumptions being made and the assertions that fit the male misogyny and males "doing it" narrative.

"you' in the above could be male or female or at the very least non gender specific.

Or one can reflect upon the sentiment of the word "owe" in the sentence. "are free to choose to"...

Very thought provoking op... Nice one.

Thank you. I’m enjoying reading the comments and opinions

Great thread.

Thank you

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By *emini ManMan
over a year ago

There and to the left a bit

As for the quote itself - it comes from a place of negativity and negative experience as has been said - I agree with the sentiment, but think there are better ways it could have been worded.

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By *UGGYBEAR2015Man
over a year ago

BRIDPORT

‘Smile’ , they said, ‘ life could be worse ‘

So I did........ and it was.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"I think we do owe others basic human respect but I get that these quotes are often a result of men feeling entitled to far more than that. Also some have a pretty warped idea of what basic human respect is. "

I read somewhere in a different context that it's a conflation of the two meanings of respect.

So those in power end up saying "if you don't treat me with respect I won't treat you with respect", meaning "if you don't treat me with deference I'll have no regard for your basic humanity"

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By *mmixtapeCouple
over a year ago

middle earth

On the " but it's just a smile" I get your point but those are my smiles to give out, it's not your job to tell me to smile, I have my own free will and bodily autonomy I will smile if I want to smile not for your benefit.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

I read somewhere in a different context that it's a conflation of the two meanings of respect.

So those in power end up saying "if you don't treat me with respect I won't treat you with respect", meaning "if you don't treat me with deference I'll have no regard for your basic humanity""

I've seen that before and it's so true!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Widening the question out a little I would say we live in an increasingly entitled culture with much more emphasis on what others should do for you rather than the reverse.

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By *innie The MinxWoman
over a year ago

Under the Duvet

There's a world of difference between "owing" someone something,(or feeling obliged), and giving it to them freely because you want to.

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By *emini ManMan
over a year ago

There and to the left a bit

"There's a world of difference between "owing" someone something,(or feeling obliged), and giving it to them freely because you want to.

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By *arbarianzCouple
over a year ago

BARNSTAPLE

"“Women owe you nothing. Not a smile, not a glance, not a nod, not attention, not conversation, not even the time of day”

Of course this is true but it's also very bitter. Is it the intention to cow all men into a state of perpetual fear of ever engaging with women?

As a man I have never felt entitled to or owed any of these things, but I have nearly always wanted them. Am I supposed to feel guilty for that?

No, you aren't. The type of person the quote is aimed at (and it doesn't specify that it's men) is the type of person who won't take any notice of it anyway.

That is the folly of this type of thing.. I know its a divisive one, but its the same as issues like Gun control.. if they banned all guns tomorrow. the only people who would adhere to it and hand them in are the ones who you never had to worry about to begin with!

It creates a larger/different problem as opposed to solving one :P all these various campaigns groups have.. the message they put out is one that most folks don't NEED to be told, and those that do, wouldn't listen. rendering it rather useless :P

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By *ablo minibar123Woman
over a year ago

"On the " but it's just a smile" I get your point but those are my smiles to give out, it's not your job to tell me to smile, I have my own free will and bodily autonomy I will smile if I want to smile not for your benefit."

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Widening the question out a little I would say we live in an increasingly entitled culture with much more emphasis on what others should do for you rather than the reverse. "

Sure.

Given the topic at hand, let's start with the men who've screamed abuse at me for not smiling when they've ordered me to. Strangers. In the street.

Examples include: almost blindly stumbling to Boots because I've got a killer headache and don't have painkillers. On crutches wincing in pain. Suffering a bereavement and trying to keep my shit together.

They were so outraged that the performing monkey did not perform her duty. How dare she have her own stuff going on. Smile for me baby.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think it’s a feminist trope born out of experience of some pre-conventional behaviour from men. Like backformore it would have been interesting if it had said ‘people’ instead of ‘women’. The responses do reveal a lot about relative values, emotions and experiences of people responding. While I also agree with brightening the worlds with smiles, authentic emotions people are feeling should be respected, as well as realising some people don’t smile when deep in thought and that’s perfectly ok. I agree too that expecting others to behave a certain way, when they are doing no harm behaving the way they are, just because it makes us feel better, is disrespectful of their autonomy. And finally I’d like to see feminism evolve into a more integral, compassionate embrace taking the appropriate action at the appropriate level depending on the behaviour, values., culture or social systems issues that are behind a particular presenting problem. I would like to see it evolve beyond setting women up as victims of oppression and recognising the value of all human beings, while enabling education in terms of consciousness and relative values development. The extremes at any level of values are damaging to us all.

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By *ecadent_DevonMan
over a year ago

Okehampton

But sometimes I smile out of empathy, I see someone having a hard time and I smile to show solidarity, that they aren’t alone. Sometimes I see an old person in the street, struggling with their shopping, obviously alone in this world and I smile at them to “say” “you are not alone”. I don’t expect a smile back. I could be having a very shit day, but I do it just the same because I would like to think I am human. If they smile back I may ask if they want a hand with their shopping and from that, two people previously unconnected share a brief moment in time and the world is a little softer round the edges.

A smile, freely given, is the way that human beings initiate contact, sometimes. It is a beautiful thing and one that can lead us down paths to new friends and new experiences, it makes us feel like we belong. If I only ever smiled to gain something, if I only ever smiled when I was happy and didn’t use them, sometimes, to cover the turmoil inside, then think of all those brief moments that I would have missed.

I for one shall keep smiling, never asking for one in return, never judging whether I should smile at that person, who, like me, is obviously frustrated at the time it’s taking for the barista to make my coffee, but who can say to themselves, “oh well”

Since when did the world turn so cold.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"But sometimes I smile out of empathy, I see someone having a hard time and I smile to show solidarity, that they aren’t alone. Sometimes I see an old person in the street, struggling with their shopping, obviously alone in this world and I smile at them to “say” “you are not alone”. I don’t expect a smile back. I could be having a very shit day, but I do it just the same because I would like to think I am human. If they smile back I may ask if they want a hand with their shopping and from that, two people previously unconnected share a brief moment in time and the world is a little softer round the edges.

Since when did the world turn so cold..... "

Not sure the meme under discussion is about you (or me) smiling at people fella! Keep smiling, I will. At everyone.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Widening the question out a little I would say we live in an increasingly entitled culture with much more emphasis on what others should do for you rather than the reverse.

Sure.

Given the topic at hand, let's start with the men who've screamed abuse at me for not smiling when they've ordered me to. Strangers. In the street.

They were so outraged that the performing monkey did not perform her duty. How dare she have her own stuff going on. Smile for me baby."

Yes I would have felt very angry if someone had told me to ‘smile it might never happen’ and I may have told them what I had just experienced and why their comment is completely inappropriate.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"Widening the question out a little I would say we live in an increasingly entitled culture with much more emphasis on what others should do for you rather than the reverse.

Sure.

Given the topic at hand, let's start with the men who've screamed abuse at me for not smiling when they've ordered me to. Strangers. In the street.

They were so outraged that the performing monkey did not perform her duty. How dare she have her own stuff going on. Smile for me baby.

Yes I would have felt very angry if someone had told me to ‘smile it might never happen’ and I may have told them what I had just experienced and why their comment is completely inappropriate."

It's not always safe for women to do this.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Since when did the world turn so cold..... "

But a smile freely given, and expecting nothing in return is perfect

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Since when did the world turn so cold..... "

So do I.

I get laughed at for how much I thank people. I try to make the world better.

Random people bloody ordering me to smile are not making my life better. Particularly not when they follow up with abuse.

Why not "I hope your day gets better" if someone looks upset, without expecting a response?

You try to help without imposing yourself or your wishes.

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By *ablo minibar123Woman
over a year ago

Are they not just saying to smile as a way of saying "cheer up" ?

Just that they are not good at articulating.

Maybe better if they ask "whats up, how come you looking unhappy?"

Yes I'm sure they are saying cheer up, but if someone feels sad why should they cheer up for someone elses benefit. I agree much better to say is there something wrong, can I help, oddly enough someone saying that would probably make me feel much more like smiling.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Widening the question out a little I would say we live in an increasingly entitled culture with much more emphasis on what others should do for you rather than the reverse.

Sure.

Given the topic at hand, let's start with the men who've screamed abuse at me for not smiling when they've ordered me to. Strangers. In the street.

They were so outraged that the performing monkey did not perform her duty. How dare she have her own stuff going on. Smile for me baby.

Yes I would have felt very angry if someone had told me to ‘smile it might never happen’ and I may have told them what I had just experienced and why their comment is completely inappropriate.

It's not always safe for women to do this. "

No. Definitely not. I'm enough of a heinous bitch for not smiling on command

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Are they not just saying to smile as a way of saying "cheer up" ?

Just that they are not good at articulating.

Maybe better if they ask "whats up, how come you looking unhappy?"

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

Since when did the world turn so cold.....

Not sure the meme under discussion is about you (or me) smiling at people fella! Keep smiling, I will. At everyone."

You mean we are excluded by our sex... That's awful!

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

Also I think it's worth remembering that it's not just about the being asked to smile. It's often just another nail in the coffin when you're so damn tired of fighting to be heard above the crowd when it comes to what you do with your body.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Also I think it's worth remembering that it's not just about the being asked to smile. It's often just another nail in the coffin when you're so damn tired of fighting to be heard above the crowd when it comes to what you do with your body. "

Yes. Sometimes I've got shit to do and don't have time to navigate the female in public bullshit.

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By *ljamMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

"I just read this quote on insta, and I’d be interested in peoples opinion/reactions to this quote

“Women owe you nothing. Not a smile, not a glance, not a nod, not attention, not conversation, not even the time of day”

I'm amazed at the responses on this thread . Everyone has commented with the inference that that this wee comment must refer to a man .

Nobody has a fuckin clue who its aimed at apart from " you ".

How about we switch the the thought its aimed at men and put a nurse or a paramedic in , in place of a man

Women owe the nurse treating her nothing

No smile for the nurse treating her

Not a nod for the doctor helping her

No conversation to the paramedic picking her up

And no time of day for the nurse holding her hand.

Actually the woman that lives by this meme sounds like a cunt and I hope she dies . Simple

Sounds like a cunt and you hope she dies?

Comments like this prove how important it is to combat misogyny. Here's a man saying he hopes that a woman dies, just because she doesn't feel obliged to put on a false show for the world... if there was any evidence required that these sorts of statements are necessary, this is it.

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By *ecadent_DevonMan
over a year ago

Okehampton

Since when did the world turn so cold.....

Not sure the meme under discussion is about you (or me) smiling at people fella! Keep smiling, I will. At everyone."

The meme in question seems to be about “acknowledging” another human beings existence. It doesn’t state “don’t ask me to smile, give you a glance etc” it states “I don’t owe you those things” whether freely given or demanded, it is, at the very least, ambiguous.

Which is why it makes me sad

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

Communication... Connection...

Caring...

Compassion..

Cuntiness..

The 5 cs

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By *ablo minibar123Woman
over a year ago

"I just read this quote on insta, and I’d be interested in peoples opinion/reactions to this quote

“Women owe you nothing. Not a smile, not a glance, not a nod, not attention, not conversation, not even the time of day”

I'm amazed at the responses on this thread . Everyone has commented with the inference that that this wee comment must refer to a man .

Nobody has a fuckin clue who its aimed at apart from " you ".

How about we switch the the thought its aimed at men and put a nurse or a paramedic in , in place of a man

Women owe the nurse treating her nothing

No smile for the nurse treating her

Not a nod for the doctor helping her

No conversation to the paramedic picking her up

And no time of day for the nurse holding her hand.

Actually the woman that lives by this meme sounds like a cunt and I hope she dies . Simple

Sounds like a cunt and you hope she dies?

Very true

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Which is why it makes me sad "

It's frustrated. We're frustrated. We're tired.

If you're a stranger in the street, what I "owe" you is not causing you harm. Pretty close to nothing.

A stranger in the street demanding things from me will get nothing if they're lucky. Yes, telling someone to smile is a demand.

I may choose to give things, and I do. But that is my choice.

Sometimes I've got stuff to do, my mind is elsewhere, I'm trying not to cry because a parent is in hospital, I didn't get enough sleep, etc.

And even if all is well, I might be about to be nice to man A, when man B pipes up to yell at me because my resting or concentrating face looks unhappy. I haven't even noticed man B, and the way my face falls at rest is none of his business. Man B rattles me because I never know how far inappropriate will stretch.

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By *hunky GentMan
over a year ago

Maldon and Peterborough

"I just read this quote on insta, and I’d be interested in peoples opinion/reactions to this quote

“Women owe you nothing. Not a smile, not a glance, not a nod, not attention, not conversation, not even the time of day”"

This seems to be pretty standard for Fab too.

Not that many men deserve any acknowledgement of any kind without inappropriate messages and posts they write.

That doesn't mean that some women can act like 'stuck-up bitches'. Some of us guys are actually nice people.

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By *a Fee VerteWoman
over a year ago

Limbo

"Widening the question out a little I would say we live in an increasingly entitled culture with much more emphasis on what others should do for you rather than the reverse.

Sure.

Given the topic at hand, let's start with the men who've screamed abuse at me for not smiling when they've ordered me to. Strangers. In the street.

They were so outraged that the performing monkey did not perform her duty. How dare she have her own stuff going on. Smile for me baby."

I get you completely. I read that quote before reading the rest of the thread and what instantly came to mind was the performing monkey analogy you referred to. I've had people....well, men.... I don't know challenge me to 'crack a smile', 'cheer up luv it'll never happen' and other such worn out clichés when they have no damn idea what might actually have already happened, or, indeed when I was simply minding my own business, going about simple daily tasks and causing no offence to anyone.

Except, apparently, the men who took my 'miserable' (in their opinion) demeanour as some sort of personal insult because I wasn't presenting myself in the way they imagined women 'should'.

Of course, not *all* men carry this sense of entitlement towards women's public personnas but within the group who do it's very telling that the same demands bellowed out at us from a passing car or from across the other side of the street are never directed at men. If not, why not? If they are 'innocently' enquiring about a stranger's well being or 'concerned' at their apparent sadness why don't they make the same enquiries of other men? I've never heard a man yelling at another to 'try smiling mate, it won't kill you'!!

Having said all that, I smile and try to be pleasant to *everyone* when it's appropriate and when I feel comfortable doing so. Notwithstanding the fact my smile is often hidden these days with a mask of course. In shops I try to smile with the tone of my voice and my choice of words. And quite obviously if anyone was helping me in any capacity - such as the example of a nurse cited in a previous response - I'd be polite, respectful and grateful. However when I'm outside the expression on my face is up to me...I don't even consciously think about it the majority of the time and I certainly don't see why I should have to make a concerted effort to put on a show for the minority who want women to comply to their ideal.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes. Sometimes I've got shit to do and don't have time to navigate the female in public bullshit. "

What's your opinion if it was the same thing, but it was someone close to you telling you to smile to try to cheer up, or they think the advice they give you could be to your benefit?

I interpreted the OP as referring to strangers in the street who think they're quite the lotharios, but always felt if it was someone close to you like a friend or family member trying to get you to open up, then it's a different story.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Thats why men become gay

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Since when did the world turn so cold.....

Not sure the meme under discussion is about you (or me) smiling at people fella! Keep smiling, I will. At everyone.

Which is why it makes me sad "

I’d have to disagree, because the words “owe you nothing” mean we can choose to, but we don’t have to, as we have (or should have) autonomy over our own bodies and what we do with them.

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By *rumpyMcFuckNuggetMan
over a year ago

Den of Iniquity

Since when did the world turn so cold..... "

Well said * round of applause *

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"I just read this quote on insta, and I’d be interested in peoples opinion/reactions to this quote

“Women owe you nothing. Not a smile, not a glance, not a nod, not attention, not conversation, not even the time of day”

This seems to be pretty standard for Fab too.

Not that many men deserve any acknowledgement of any kind without inappropriate messages and posts they write.

That doesn't mean that some women can act like 'stuck-up bitches'. Some of us guys are actually nice people. "

Calling people bitches is real nice.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Since when did the world turn so cold.....

Not sure the meme under discussion is about you (or me) smiling at people fella! Keep smiling, I will. At everyone.

Which is why it makes me sad "

Whyever would it do that? I don't interpret it that way at all. I guess it's our perspectives are different. I read "I'll smile at you if I want to, I don't owe you it".

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Widening the question out a little I would say we live in an increasingly entitled culture with much more emphasis on what others should do for you rather than the reverse.

Sure.

Given the topic at hand, let's start with the men who've screamed abuse at me for not smiling when they've ordered me to. Strangers. In the street.

They were so outraged that the performing monkey did not perform her duty. How dare she have her own stuff going on. Smile for me baby.

Except, apparently, the men who took my 'miserable' (in their opinion) demeanour as some sort of personal insult because I wasn't presenting myself in the way they imagined women 'should'.

Beautifully put

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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago

Dubai & Nottingham

"There's a world of difference between "owing" someone something,(or feeling obliged), and giving it to them freely because you want to.

That’s true and those that take a wider view abs responsibility and give freely things like respect, kindness, trust make the world a good place and those that don’t create all the problems

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Yes. Sometimes I've got shit to do and don't have time to navigate the female in public bullshit.

What's your opinion if it was the same thing, but it was someone close to you telling you to smile to try to cheer up, or they think the advice they give you could be to your benefit?

I don't owe people close to me nothing.

Hopefully those close to me know that telling me to rearrange my face is not going to help my emotional state, but would try a more productive method. I would probably tell them I'm having a bad time and either talk or not.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

Yes. Sometimes I've got shit to do and don't have time to navigate the female in public bullshit.

What's your opinion if it was the same thing, but it was someone close to you telling you to smile to try to cheer up, or they think the advice they give you could be to your benefit?

From my experience, those close to you who are genuinely trying to help don't just tell you to smile. They try to do things to help or talk to you and if you're genuinely unable to be happy in that moment, they're just there for you. I think most people understand that forcing a smile doesn't really help anyone and it means so much more when you manage to provoke a genuine smile in someone.

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By *hunky GentMan
over a year ago

Maldon and Peterborough

Calling people bitches is real nice."

No - its not nice, unless they are.

Same way that some men can be absolute tossers.

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By *ecadent_DevonMan
over a year ago

Okehampton

Well it appears to me, from the reaction to this meme (good topic OP) that a large proportion of women are bombarded with demands on a daily basis to behave or falsely represent the way they are feeling.

I must confess that I am stunned by this, I never knew that society articulated demands on women (in particular) on such a frequent basis and in such a casual and open way.

Then again I have lived in a very rural place for many, many years, maybe things have changed since I last felt concrete beneath my feet.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Well it appears to me, from the reaction to this meme (good topic OP) that a large proportion of women are bombarded with demands on a daily basis to behave or falsely represent the way they are feeling.

I must confess that I am stunned by this, I never knew that society articulated demands on women (in particular) on such a frequent basis and in such a casual and open way.

Then again I have lived in a very rural place for many, many years, maybe things have changed since I last felt concrete beneath my feet. "

I'm both astounded and happy for you mate.

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By *ljamMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

Calling people bitches is real nice.

No - its not nice, unless they are.

Same way that some men can be absolute tossers.

Here's a hint... insinuating someone is a stuck-up bitch because they don't feel like they're obliged to smile at complete strangers could well suggest you're an absolute tosser.

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By *hunky GentMan
over a year ago

Maldon and Peterborough

Calling people bitches is real nice.

No - its not nice, unless they are.

Same way that some men can be absolute tossers.

Here's a hint... insinuating someone is a stuck-up bitch because they don't feel like they're obliged to smile at complete strangers could well suggest you're an absolute tosser."

That's not what i said - you're twisting my words.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I must confess that I am stunned by this, I never knew that society articulated demands on women (in particular) on such a frequent basis and in such a casual and open way.

Then again I have lived in a very rural place for many, many years, maybe things have changed since I last felt concrete beneath my feet. "

Thank you

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This sounds like it was aimed at misogynistic men, but because some men are entitled dickheads and are still living in the dark ages, cause their bullshit was never called out when they were younger, then we all get tarred with the same brush because women don’t know who the Neanderthals are. Of course in an ideal world everyone is should be given basic respect up front, but some take this initial respect as a cue to impose themselves. Its a one size fits all quote with no nuance or subtly, it may sound empowering, but ultimately, as usual, everyone’s worse off because of the behaviour of a few cunts.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

I must confess that I am stunned by this, I never knew that society articulated demands on women (in particular) on such a frequent basis and in such a casual and open way.

Then again I have lived in a very rural place for many, many years, maybe things have changed since I last felt concrete beneath my feet. "

I think unless you are a woman it's difficult to understand. Just as I would find it difficult to identify the pressures placed on men by women and other men.

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By *ljamMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

Calling people bitches is real nice.

No - its not nice, unless they are.

Same way that some men can be absolute tossers.

Here's a hint... insinuating someone is a stuck-up bitch because they don't feel like they're obliged to smile at complete strangers could well suggest you're an absolute tosser.

That's not what i said - you're twisting my words. "

Sure.

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By *ecadent_DevonMan
over a year ago

Okehampton

I must confess that I am stunned by this, I never knew that society articulated demands on women (in particular) on such a frequent basis and in such a casual and open way.

Then again I have lived in a very rural place for many, many years, maybe things have changed since I last felt concrete beneath my feet.

I'm both astounded and happy for you mate."

Well it’s beyond my current experience, I can’t imagine old Jed down by the river shouting “show us your hem” at dear lovely Betty as she crosses the bridge at a snails pace. If he did she would probably shout back “yeh daft old bugga” to which he would reply “10:30”

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Anyway, I’m off to listen to Bros, ooh, oohm, yeah, ooh, oohm, yeah!

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

We dont have this problem where i live as we all smile and have conversations with random strangers

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By *a Fee VerteWoman
over a year ago

Limbo

I must confess that I am stunned by this, I never knew that society articulated demands on women (in particular) on such a frequent basis and in such a casual and open way.

Then again I have lived in a very rural place for many, many years, maybe things have changed since I last felt concrete beneath my feet.

I'm both astounded and happy for you mate.

Ha ha

I have sometimes pondered the age at which (the inappropriate, misogynistic shouty) men consider women no longer 'worth' wasting their breath on. The age at which we're no longer seen as 'legitimate' targets for that sort of intrusive and unwelcome attention. I could be the mother of some of the men I've had such remarks from and they still do it. Maybe when I'm old enough to be their grandmother they'll stop it?

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"I must confess that I am stunned by this, I never knew that society articulated demands on women (in particular) on such a frequent basis and in such a casual and open way.

Really? This is not a dig at all I'm just surprised. Do you not notice how women are expected to put in a lot of labour on a regular basis just to be considered acceptable to be seen in public? Women have to behave in such a narrow window of acceptable behaviour? We can't be too prudish or too slutty? Don't look frumpy because you won't be taken as seriously (especially in the workplace) if you're not at least mildly attractive but don't dress too revealing as then you're using your sexuality or asking for men to behave inappropriately towards you. Don't be high maintenance but you still have to meet a minimum beauty standard, just do it quietly and quickly. Don't be a stuck up bitch but don't be too over friendly to men because again, then you're asking for it if he does anything inappropriate. Don't be too assertive (you're being a bitch again) but if you're too soft and get walked over you're a "typical woman" and this is why women can't be managers. Don't be cold but don't be over emotional. Don't be a baby brained mum but if you're not maternal enough or work a lot you're a bad mother or just "not natural". Don't neglect your kids by leaving them in childcare but don't be a leaching, lazy stay at home mum. Don't be over emotional but women who aren't emotional are cold. Heck autism is massively under diagnosed in women because it's apparently so hard to tell the difference between a young girl struggling to socially engage with others and a young girl being "well behaved".

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I must confess that I am stunned by this, I never knew that society articulated demands on women (in particular) on such a frequent basis and in such a casual and open way.

And if you could run the hoover round when you've finished that'd be great.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"This sounds like it was aimed at misogynistic men, but because some men are entitled dickheads and are still living in the dark ages, cause their bullshit was never called out when they were younger, then we all get tarred with the same brush because women don’t know who the Neanderthals are. Of course in an ideal world everyone is should be given basic respect up front, but some take this initial respect as a cue to impose themselves. Its a one size fits all quote with no nuance or subtly, it may sound empowering, but ultimately, as usual, everyone’s worse off because of the behaviour of a few cunts.

It's true. Being nervous to be too nice or engage with strangers in case they take it as a come on is a sad situation for everyone

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"I must confess that I am stunned by this, I never knew that society articulated demands on women (in particular) on such a frequent basis and in such a casual and open way.

And I breathe a sigh of relief that I don't have to try and articulate this.

I agree with every word I just couldn't get it right in my head to put down on paper.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm putting this thread down to Monday Morning....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm putting this thread down to Monday Morning....

I'm pretty sure it's Tuesday, but who can tell these days

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

''nobody owe you nothing''

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"In that case us men don’t owe you the penis

Of course not - it’s yours.

But never met a man yet that didn’t want to share

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By *ecadent_DevonMan
over a year ago

Okehampton

"I must confess that I am stunned by this, I never knew that society articulated demands on women (in particular) on such a frequent basis and in such a casual and open way.

Round here, women seldom put on their make-up to go lambing, or dig out a fence post..... round here it’s all hands to the pump when you have a two day window to do the silaging, ain’t got time to worry about whether you have front bumps

Round here, kids tend to look after themselves or help out around the home/land. Round here no one gets dressed up to sit in a pub garden, unless a bailer-cord belt is now in vogue.

Round here we looked at social media and said erm..... who cares if I had toast this morning “I’ve got an abundance of eggs, will drop em down the shop if anyone wants them, by the way does anyone know who owns this cat”

Round here gender is not a defining factor in whether you can wear a boiler suit, stink of cow shit and drive a tractor.

But then we are backwards in the countryside....

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"I must confess that I am stunned by this, I never knew that society articulated demands on women (in particular) on such a frequent basis and in such a casual and open way.

And I breathe a sigh of relief that I don't have to try and articulate this.

I agree with every word I just couldn't get it right in my head to put down on paper. "

Agreed.

But for some reason it never gets through.

No matter how we try to explain and ask for help, among some it remains our fault.

I'm just trying to be a person. This bullshit gets in my way. (And before anyone asks, no I've never used my feminine wiles to get my way, I consider such a technique beneath my dignity)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Treat others as how you wish to be treated "

Cant agree with this . Think we would end up in some serious trouble if we just walked around wanking on people

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"In that case us men don’t owe you the penis

Steady on

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"In that case us men don’t owe you the penis

Steady on "

I mean, also correct

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"In that case us men don’t owe you the penis

Steady on

I mean, also correct

don’t wanna be too rash

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"In that case us men don’t owe you the penis

Steady on

I mean, also correct

don’t wanna be too rash

Their body their choice

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Treat others as how you wish to be treated

Cant agree with this . Think we would end up in some serious trouble if we just walked around wanking on people

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By *emorefridaCouple
over a year ago

La la land

"I must confess that I am stunned by this, I never knew that society articulated demands on women (in particular) on such a frequent basis and in such a casual and open way.

Round here, kids tend to look after themselves or help out around the home/land. Round here no one gets dressed up to sit in a pub garden, unless a bailer-cord belt is now in vogue.

Round here gender is not a defining factor in whether you can wear a boiler suit, stink of cow shit and drive a tractor.

But then we are backwards in the countryside....

You've described my childhood growing up on a farm, my parents had daughters so we mucked in and worked. Get the job done was the only thing that mattered. Though when I went to live in the city I could see the attitude towards women was different.

Think when you live hand to mouth life is a lot different.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I must confess that I am stunned by this, I never knew that society articulated demands on women (in particular) on such a frequent basis and in such a casual and open way.

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By *ecadent_DevonMan
over a year ago

Okehampton

"I must confess that I am stunned by this, I never knew that society articulated demands on women (in particular) on such a frequent basis and in such a casual and open way.

Round here, kids tend to look after themselves or help out around the home/land. Round here no one gets dressed up to sit in a pub garden, unless a bailer-cord belt is now in vogue.

Round here gender is not a defining factor in whether you can wear a boiler suit, stink of cow shit and drive a tractor.

But then we are backwards in the countryside....

Think when you live hand to mouth life is a lot different. "

As I say. I can imagine the look on Brendas face if Willis told her she wasn’t at least his equal. I’d have to go to Bratton to fetch his testicles back.....

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"I must confess that I am stunned by this, I never knew that society articulated demands on women (in particular) on such a frequent basis and in such a casual and open way.

Round here, kids tend to look after themselves or help out around the home/land. Round here no one gets dressed up to sit in a pub garden, unless a bailer-cord belt is now in vogue.

Round here gender is not a defining factor in whether you can wear a boiler suit, stink of cow shit and drive a tractor.

But then we are backwards in the countryside....

Honestly if you really do live somewhere where the women don't feel a heap load of additional pressures due to being a woman then I'm very pleased to hear that but I can't help but feel I might get a different story from the women. Maybe their pressures are different to us "city folk" but surely in an industry so traditionally a man's world such as farming, there's additional challenges women face? Genuine question.

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By *hilloutMan
over a year ago

All over the place! Northwesr, , Southwest

"I just read this quote on insta, and I’d be interested in peoples opinion/reactions to this quote

“Women owe you nothing. Not a smile, not a glance, not a nod, not attention, not conversation, not even the time of day”"

The quote seems to come from someone jaded, bitter and negative.

I've no time, patience or desire to associate with such people.

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By *ex HolesMan
over a year ago

Up North

I think I’m owed a BJ off a lady

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think I’m owed a BJ off a lady

I’m a layyydeee

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think I’m owed a BJ off a lady

U may have to accept an IOU for the foreseeable

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By *emorefridaCouple
over a year ago

La la land

"I must confess that I am stunned by this, I never knew that society articulated demands on women (in particular) on such a frequent basis and in such a casual and open way.

Round here, kids tend to look after themselves or help out around the home/land. Round here no one gets dressed up to sit in a pub garden, unless a bailer-cord belt is now in vogue.

Round here gender is not a defining factor in whether you can wear a boiler suit, stink of cow shit and drive a tractor.

But then we are backwards in the countryside....

Think when you live hand to mouth life is a lot different.

As I say. I can imagine the look on Brendas face if Willis told her she wasn’t at least his equal. I’d have to go to Bratton to fetch his testicles back....."

Lol if she's anything like my grandmother all hell would break loose.

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By *ex HolesMan
over a year ago

Up North

"I think I’m owed a BJ off a lady

U may have to accept an IOU for the foreseeable "

Banked

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"I just read this quote on insta, and I’d be interested in peoples opinion/reactions to this quote

“Women owe you nothing. Not a smile, not a glance, not a nod, not attention, not conversation, not even the time of day”

The quote seems to come from someone jaded, bitter and negative.

I've no time, patience or desire to associate with such people."

I'm sure women are relieved, as they are with all the men telling on themselves here.

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By *emorefridaCouple
over a year ago

La la land

"I must confess that I am stunned by this, I never knew that society articulated demands on women (in particular) on such a frequent basis and in such a casual and open way.

Round here, kids tend to look after themselves or help out around the home/land. Round here no one gets dressed up to sit in a pub garden, unless a bailer-cord belt is now in vogue.

Round here gender is not a defining factor in whether you can wear a boiler suit, stink of cow shit and drive a tractor.

But then we are backwards in the countryside....

From generations and generations of farming folk. Yes in many ways we were treated the same, and expected to be as physically strong as men. Yes we were expected to cook and keep house and look after kids when the men were outside in the middle of the night during lambing etc. Women often did more of the finances etc. It was more of a mutual understanding that each relied on the other to get food on the table. The only part that was incredibly hard was as I'm the eldest of two girls, and I would have inherited the farm. My family wanted me to marry a farmer and not get an education. The lack of education wasn't a gender thing though, my father barely attended school to work on the farm.

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By *wist my nipplesCouple
over a year ago

North East Scotland, mostly

"I must confess that I am stunned by this, I never knew that society articulated demands on women (in particular) on such a frequent basis and in such a casual and open way.

This has been a fascinating thread but I hadn't managed to collect my thoughts enough to post - thanks, Lacey, for articulating them so clearly!

I will add that part of the issue, to my mind, is that both men and women can find it genuinely difficult to really know what it's like for the other. So many of these things are deeply ingrained in out society. Trying to have a conversation about it inevitably ends with people feeling attacked and going on the defensive.

Mrs kf x

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"I must confess that I am stunned by this, I never knew that society articulated demands on women (in particular) on such a frequent basis and in such a casual and open way.

This has been a fascinating thread but I hadn't managed to collect my thoughts enough to post - thanks, Lacey, for articulating them so clearly!

Mrs kf x"

I'm glad I have people with whom I can have the conversations, so I can do better.

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By *ecadent_DevonMan
over a year ago

Okehampton

"I must confess that I am stunned by this, I never knew that society articulated demands on women (in particular) on such a frequent basis and in such a casual and open way.

Round here, kids tend to look after themselves or help out around the home/land. Round here no one gets dressed up to sit in a pub garden, unless a bailer-cord belt is now in vogue.

Round here gender is not a defining factor in whether you can wear a boiler suit, stink of cow shit and drive a tractor.

But then we are backwards in the countryside....

I think there are challenges that ALL genders face in this world. In rural areas we can’t go 2 months without some poor sod putting a shotgun to his mouth and kissing the barrel. Yes it’s hard. It’s hard on both men and women, for different reasons and because of different expectations. The man may be up at 4am doing the milking, whilst the woman is up at 7am to get the kids ready for school, it doesn’t mean it can’t be the other way round, many women in rural communities have part tine jobs to bring in extra cash for “luxuries” as farming just about keeps a roof over their head. Life is pressured, life isn’t easy. But in the main. Life is shared.

However, I don’t think any woman living and working in the countryside feels the need to get dressed up to “belong”, they may dress up on a Friday night to go down the pub, but I have a feeling they do that more for themselves than others....

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By *wist my nipplesCouple
over a year ago

North East Scotland, mostly

You're not wrong, Mr Jeans! One of my life mantras - don't be a dick

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

Calling people bitches is real nice.

No - its not nice, unless they are.

Same way that some men can be absolute tossers.

Here's a hint... insinuating someone is a stuck-up bitch because they don't feel like they're obliged to smile at complete strangers could well suggest you're an absolute tosser."

Where does smiling at absolute strangers come from.. Nowhere in the original post does it say absolute strangers... As I said... It reflects more upon the readers assumptions and experiences and perceptions than the writer.

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

[Removed by poster at 02/02/21 11:40:49]

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"I must confess that I am stunned by this, I never knew that society articulated demands on women (in particular) on such a frequent basis and in such a casual and open way.

Round here, kids tend to look after themselves or help out around the home/land. Round here no one gets dressed up to sit in a pub garden, unless a bailer-cord belt is now in vogue.

Round here gender is not a defining factor in whether you can wear a boiler suit, stink of cow shit and drive a tractor.

But then we are backwards in the countryside....

Was the "marry a farmer" part because money is too tight to hire someone to do any work you couldn't do?

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

When I read that quote all that springs to mind, is it was wrote by an angry individual with a chip on their shoulder and not a quote to conduct your life by

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"I just read this quote on insta, and I’d be interested in peoples opinion/reactions to this quote

“Women owe you nothing. Not a smile, not a glance, not a nod, not attention, not conversation, not even the time of day”"

Its important to read what is written as well as what we think has been written. Would be a great question in English A level!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I believe it just means we do not have to behave "as expected". We can give those things freely, not out if obligation. Since it's just Instagram quote, we don't know the context of the statement...

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I believe it just means we do not have to behave "as expected". We can give those things freely, not out if obligation. Since it's just Instagram quote, we don't know the context of the statement..."

Exactly right. Perfectly put

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By *emorefridaCouple
over a year ago

La la land

"I must confess that I am stunned by this, I never knew that society articulated demands on women (in particular) on such a frequent basis and in such a casual and open way.

Round here, kids tend to look after themselves or help out around the home/land. Round here no one gets dressed up to sit in a pub garden, unless a bailer-cord belt is now in vogue.

Round here gender is not a defining factor in whether you can wear a boiler suit, stink of cow shit and drive a tractor.

But then we are backwards in the countryside....

Was the "marry a farmer" part because money is too tight to hire someone to do any work you couldn't do? "

Yes exactly it was to make sure we could keep the farm running. So to them it was a practical decision.

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By *ljamMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

Calling people bitches is real nice.

No - its not nice, unless they are.

Same way that some men can be absolute tossers.

Here's a hint... insinuating someone is a stuck-up bitch because they don't feel like they're obliged to smile at complete strangers could well suggest you're an absolute tosser.

It's inevitably contained within the original statement. The statement is directed to a universal "you" which will naturally be made up by a vast majority of strangers. Much of the thread has borne this out.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

Of course they do. I've never understood why people think that when women talk about their challenges they're saying they're the only ones who have them. Of course that's not the case. If a gay man complained of homophobic abuse, I'm not going to turn around and say "but you're a man, your life is easy!" It's a rediculous idea and I've yet to meet anyone who genuinely believes only one demographic faces challenges in life. The world is complicated and we don't all exist in singular demographics. We exist in many, overlapping ones with different challenges.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

Calling people bitches is real nice.

No - its not nice, unless they are.

Same way that some men can be absolute tossers.

Here's a hint... insinuating someone is a stuck-up bitch because they don't feel like they're obliged to smile at complete strangers could well suggest you're an absolute tosser.

We have no idea who the statement was aimed at... Its deliberately vague and ambiguous and open to interpretation, which is what makes it such a great object of discussion.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"I just read this quote on insta, and I’d be interested in peoples opinion/reactions to this quote

“Women owe you nothing. Not a smile, not a glance, not a nod, not attention, not conversation, not even the time of day”

Its important to read what is written as well as what we think has been written. Would be a great question in English A level! "

When I studied English we looked not only to the words but also the wider context.

The context of women being told not to look unhappy for strangers isn't new.

If I'd studied this in English and had written about people being mean to their friends, I would have got a low grade and a scathing marker's note.

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By *ecadent_DevonMan
over a year ago

Okehampton

I think what has genuinely surprised me is that many women, in this thread, are stating that they are subject to misogynistic abuse on a daily basis and are battered with “cheer up love, get your tits out” when they leave the house. I am stunned, but not disbelieving. I guess occasionally if I go into town and in a bit grumpy I may get a “cheer up Charlie” from some random, but that is very rare indeed. But genuinely I am shocked, surprised and disappointed with the level of random casual abuse there seems to be out there in the world.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"I must confess that I am stunned by this, I never knew that society articulated demands on women (in particular) on such a frequent basis and in such a casual and open way.

Round here, kids tend to look after themselves or help out around the home/land. Round here no one gets dressed up to sit in a pub garden, unless a bailer-cord belt is now in vogue.

Round here gender is not a defining factor in whether you can wear a boiler suit, stink of cow shit and drive a tractor.

But then we are backwards in the countryside....

Was the "marry a farmer" part because money is too tight to hire someone to do any work you couldn't do?

Yes exactly it was to make sure we could keep the farm running. So to them it was a practical decision. "

I understand. That's a lot to carry.

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By *alandNitaCouple
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

"I just read this quote on insta, and I’d be interested in peoples opinion/reactions to this quote

“Women owe you nothing. Not a smile, not a glance, not a nod, not attention, not conversation, not even the time of day”"

Kindness is not a debt to be paid, it is an expression of yourself.

Cal

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

I guess living in a city you're exposed to a lot more strangers who you will likely never see again. I guess much like the internet, it gives people the courage to behave in ways they may not ever do if they weren't so anonymous. When I used to use public transport more or walk about in the evenings I faced this a lot more. To be honest, being told to smile was fairly tame. Even the vulgar comments were compared to the physical touching I've been cornered, pressed against rails, I once had a guy at a train station just sit down next to me and put his arm around me and wouldn't take it off until I began to attract attention by repeating asking him not to touch me. I've lived in 4 different cities in my life and had these experiences in all of them plus places I've visited. I've had them when dressed up and when wearing leggings, a hoodie and no make up.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Agreed. It doesn't matter where I am, what I'm doing, if I'm smiling or not, what I'm wearing, if it's daylight. Strange men (it's never women) interrupt my day to at best tell me to smile, at worst... not talking about it, a whole lot worse.

I got shit to do. I didn't know you existed five minutes ago. Please stop bothering me.

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By *ust RachelTV/TS
over a year ago

Horsham

Could it that your face lights up when you smile, or possibly the person is hinting that things are not as dark as they seem.

I had a mate say that to a woman once, when she asked why should I. That was his response.

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport

I must confess that I am stunned by this, I never knew that society articulated demands on women (in particular) on such a frequent basis and in such a casual and open way.

Then again I have lived in a very rural place for many, many years, maybe things have changed since I last felt concrete beneath my feet. "

As someone who straddles the boundary between male and female, I can absolutely confirm that women are very often expected to put on a false smile in a way that men are not.

When I'm presenting as male I walk down the street, I go shopping, I sit in a pub or go to a gig, and nobody expects anything of me beyond normal social interaction. I order a drink, I pay the money, if I'm feeling good I will look happy and smile, if I'm feeling bad I'll probably not. I'll always try to say please and thank you unless I'm feeling totally grim. But nobody will start telling me to do more.

When I'm presenting as female I'll very often find people, usually men, expecting me to "perform female" for them. I'll see men, total strangers, that expect me to notice their presence, and hear them mutter criticism when i pass them by in the street. I've had men hang out of car windows to shout "give us a kiss love" or worse, turning to insults when i ignore them.

I will say #notallmen and even #onlyasmallnumberofignorantmen, but yes, women are very often expected to perform female, in a way that men are not required to perform male.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

I must confess that I am stunned by this, I never knew that society articulated demands on women (in particular) on such a frequent basis and in such a casual and open way.

Then again I have lived in a very rural place for many, many years, maybe things have changed since I last felt concrete beneath my feet.

As someone who straddles the boundary between male and female, I can absolutely confirm that women are very often expected to put on a false smile in a way that men are not.

I will say #notallmen and even #onlyasmallnumberofignorantmen, but yes, women are very often expected to perform female, in a way that men are not required to perform male."

(Riffing off, not arguing)

Not all men.

Too many.

If it's not you, stop protecting those who are, they're doing you (and women!) a disservice.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

I must confess that I am stunned by this, I never knew that society articulated demands on women (in particular) on such a frequent basis and in such a casual and open way.

Then again I have lived in a very rural place for many, many years, maybe things have changed since I last felt concrete beneath my feet.

As someone who straddles the boundary between male and female, I can absolutely confirm that women are very often expected to put on a false smile in a way that men are not.

I will say #notallmen and even #onlyasmallnumberofignorantmen, but yes, women are very often expected to perform female, in a way that men are not required to perform male."

I'm so sorry you've had those experiences.

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By *innie The MinxWoman
over a year ago

Under the Duvet

The interesting thing this thread highlights is that women never (or never in my experience) feel the need to tell ramdom men to smile/cheer up/it might never happen whereas men (or should I say some men) feel it's their right to tell other people how to arrange their faces.

The fact that there is no actual concern whether I'm happy , sad or indifferent is what really pisses me off.

The subtext is "smile little woman, because I say so."

Fuck.Off.

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport

"I just read this quote on insta, and I’d be interested in peoples opinion/reactions to this quote

“Women owe you nothing. Not a smile, not a glance, not a nod, not attention, not conversation, not even the time of day”

The quote seems to come from someone jaded, bitter and negative.

I've no time, patience or desire to associate with such people."

That's a relief, because when we're having a rough day and just trying to go about our business, we have no desire to associate with people who think they have a right for us to always be sweetness, light and positivity.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"The interesting thing this thread highlights is that women never (or never in my experience) feel the need to tell ramdom men to smile/cheer up/it might never happen whereas men (or should I say some men) feel it's their right to tell other people how to arrange their faces.

The fact that there is no actual concern whether I'm happy , sad or indifferent is what really pisses me off.

The subtext is "smile little woman, because I say so."

Fuck.Off."

YES.

Do I occasionally engage strangers? Sure. "Bloody rain, hope it clears up." "Nice hat". "Your lipstick really suits you, it's gorgeous". "Manchester buses come three at once".

I say it and indicate with my body language or movement that I'm not obliging them to reply (not something the smile men ever do). A little human connection, non threatening, non obligating.

If I can work it out, anyone can work it out.

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport

The fact that there is no actual concern whether I'm happy , sad or indifferent is what really pisses me off.

The subtext is "smile little woman, because I say so."

Fuck.Off."

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By *ecadent_DevonMan
over a year ago

Okehampton

2 things I have learned today

1). Although I always felt it would be great to have boobs to jiggle and a secret personal “cubby hole” it doesn’t seem worth the abuse (which is a shame because my legs look great in nylons)

2). Never move back to the city

((Note this post is tongue in cheek and not designed to belittle people’s experiences))

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

I almost wish I could act.

Years ago, I'd just heard about my grandfather passing, and I got an aggressive dude telling me to smile. I could no longer hold my shit together and ugly cried that I'd lost my grandfather.

I think I gave that man a lesson. I hope I did.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"2 things I have learned today

1). Although I always felt it would be great to have boobs to jiggle and a secret personal “cubby hole” it doesn’t seem worth the abuse (which is a shame because my legs look great in nylons)

2). Never move back to the city

((Note this post is tongue in cheek and not designed to belittle people’s experiences)) "

The boobs are fun to play with though

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I almost wish I could act.

Years ago, I'd just heard about my grandfather passing, and I got an aggressive dude telling me to smile. I could no longer hold my shit together and ugly cried that I'd lost my grandfather.

I think I gave that man a lesson. I hope I did. "

What made him aggressive?

I ask, as it's something you've highlighted often.

Hasn't there ever been an occasion where the initial suggestion that you smile, has come from a benign interaction from someone who perhaps is just trying to be friendly, even if a bit clumsy at it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I find it interesting that some people have taken this quote as a real negative and the person must be angry or hurt.

The other thing is the assumption that it was written by a woman because actually we have no idea this could well be a man who has come to this conclusion.

It's a really interesting discussion though.

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By *arlomaleMan
over a year ago

darlington

In a world of silly pointless quotes its just another one of them to go with the rest of them

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I agree with it.

I see why the quote was made as I’ve experienced the “Smile you’d look prettier” crap when I’m simply minding my business walking down the street.

However nobody owes anyone nothing!

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By *umbiyaMan
over a year ago

Halifax

You'd have to be a narcissistic maniac to think women owe you anything. They have a right to ignore you just as much as I have a right to ignore anyone

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"I almost wish I could act.

Years ago, I'd just heard about my grandfather passing, and I got an aggressive dude telling me to smile. I could no longer hold my shit together and ugly cried that I'd lost my grandfather.

I think I gave that man a lesson. I hope I did.

What made him aggressive?

I ask, as it's something you've highlighted often.

Hasn't there ever been an occasion where the initial suggestion that you smile, has come from a benign interaction from someone who perhaps is just trying to be friendly, even if a bit clumsy at it?"

I'm sure some have been well intentioned. I don't remember them though. Funnily enough, we remember our worst experiences not our best of irritating situations.

This one was barked like a command. I am also sure my heightened emotional state made it worse in my head. I'm not sorry I upset him, although it was entirely unintentional.

I really don't care if it was well intentioned. I'm sure "grow some balls" or "man up" are well intentioned sometimes, that shit needs to stop too. Men are allowed to be vulnerable. Women are allowed to exist without being happy for strangers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You'd have to be a narcissistic maniac to think women owe you anything. They have a right to ignore you just as much as I have a right to ignore anyone

Yes and often comes up on the forums but in a different guise.

So you will often get a thread that says something like why are women on this site rude? Then when you read what its about, its often simply because she has ignored or deleted a message.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"I just read this quote on insta, and I’d be interested in peoples opinion/reactions to this quote

“Women owe you nothing. Not a smile, not a glance, not a nod, not attention, not conversation, not even the time of day”

I wouldn't think that this is meant towards everyone.

Okay I am not going to go all “woke” here but I am amazed that such men exist, they obviously do, as women on here and in life in general keep reporting these experiences but I wonder.

A) has shouting “ere love, show us your tits” in the street every resulted in tits being shown, because if it hasn’t, then that is some kind of optimism that is bordering on insanity

B) has anyone (man or woman) ever instantly cheered up because someone said “cheer up” again, as it seems so prevalent a phrase to be uttered it must have achieved a modicum of success

Of course, these may be the last utterances of a section of our society that is at an evolutionary dead end and these are their last vain hopes to join the breeding pool and continue their lineage "

On point A............... Men don't expect women to get their tits out. Shouting sexual comments is manspreading , it's designed to make him feel dominant. He doesn't imagine for one moment that she will display anything other than subjugation to the comment - and he has won. Then he can knuckle walk over and press harder.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I must confess that I am stunned by this, I never knew that society articulated demands on women (in particular) on such a frequent basis and in such a casual and open way.

Such a fantastic post.

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport

"2 things I have learned today

1). Although I always felt it would be great to have boobs to jiggle and a secret personal “cubby hole” it doesn’t seem worth the abuse (which is a shame because my legs look great in nylons)

2). Never move back to the city

((Note this post is tongue in cheek and not designed to belittle people’s experiences)) "

1) Yes, it is nice to have a little jiggle when I've got my boobs in, the cubby hole I can't speak from any experience. Might be fun to see the pics of your legs in the nylons, but i can confirm that you do look good in that suit.

2) I think you're right about the city. For reasons I guess that I'm unlikely to move back to the country proper, but edge of town is better than central, and I do miss being within walking distance of fields and woods...

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By *emini ManMan
over a year ago

There and to the left a bit

Maybe it's a man vs woman thing, maybe it's an individual thing or perhaps it's about the delivery and context (as a lot of these things are) but as a man I've been told numerous times, *by men and women*, to "smile it might never happen" and similar and it's been water off a ducks back to me - yeah there have been times when I've had stuff going on and it's not been appropriate, times it's just my natural face isn't particularly expressive of how I actually feel and inside I've been happy as Larry - whatever though I usually take it with a pinch of salt.

Now I get if it's said in a leery or inappropriate way that it could be intimidating, and it's certainly not something I would say myself in any context, but if it's just intended as a kindly, cheery gesture from a position of unawareness I'm certainly not going to get uptight about it.

In some respects is it any different from constantly being told to "be kind" when you have no idea what someone is going through or that their propensity to "be kind" is somewhat diminished by circumstances?

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

In some ways I find this a fascinating thread. In other ways it's just sad and predictable.

Apparently this is about niceness. So we're led to believe. Smile, it's a way to make you feel better. And if you don't take it that way you're a horrible person.

It's fascinating that, from the same mouths, come two apparently contradictory things: "if you don't appreciate my intrusion into your life then you are somehow damaged and broken, you must accept it and reward me for it". But also "how dare you tell me to nice to people, I'll be authentic, I won't be nice."

These things look contradictory on their face. I believe the common theme is "I'll do what I want and you must cater to me." I think that's bloody horrible, and I hope that people see it for what it is, manipulation and self-centredness.

It's not enough to want to do a good thing. If you do something unwelcome, you should accept that you've done wrong and try to make up for it.

If you can't, claiming you're a good man because you have manners, as many do, is pretty galling. That's not manners, that's manipulation.

It's long past time we stop making excuses for people who don't get it - if you don't get it, figure your shit out. This is a conversation that's been had since before I can remember. No cookies for you. Your emotional manipulation stops here: we're not hysterical, you're wrong.

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