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"These men/women will have to go on to benefits. Benefits? what benefits these are being hammered for the wrong reasons and affecting the wrong people." No one is on benefits for the 'wrong reasons' They are on benefits as they don't work , can't work , don't earn enough - regardless of whether it's a gr oup that people want to look down on. | |||
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"These men/women will have to go on to benefits. Benefits? what benefits these are being hammered for the wrong reasons and affecting the wrong people. No one is on benefits for the 'wrong reasons' They are on benefits as they don't work , can't work , don't earn enough - regardless of whether it's a gr oup that people want to look down on. "  | |||
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"Why not just use Jimmy Carr's accountant, if its not illegal and its saving yourself hard earned money then do it. This country is taxed too heavily as it is, maybe the tax laws should be reviewed then people wouldn't dodge tax." The COUNTRY is not taxed too heavily. The rich should be far more than they are , the wages of the poor should be increased by government regulation and the price of property and rents should also be decreased by government regulation. | |||
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^^^^^^^^^ vvvvvvvvvvvv
who, what, where, when?????  | |||
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"So why Fabio are you paying Tax and National insurance? if you pay these are you entitled to the benefit system because its very obvious if you do not pay these you will get more than a person who does, especially if you come from outside the country." Sorry....have read it three times and it still doesn't make sense | |||
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"So why Fabio are you paying Tax and National insurance? if you pay these are you entitled to the benefit system because its very obvious if you do not pay these you will get more than a person who does, especially if you come from outside the country." sorry... i didn't realise that "paying tax" was now optional.... how silly of me.... | |||
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"Do you think it is morally wrong to pay contractors cash in hand to make the work they do cheaper for you? Part way through our ten years of Austerity measures and all the cuts being made it is something I would have to consider.... What about you?" If you want your bins emptied, police to ensure your safety, hospitals for when you get ill, roads to be maintained, flood defences and a million other things you have to pay your share. | |||
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"Do you think it is morally wrong to pay contractors cash in hand to make the work they do cheaper for you? Part way through our ten years of Austerity measures and all the cuts being made it is something I would have to consider.... What about you?" Austerity or not I pay in cash if it benefits me...and sleep soundly after doing so. | |||
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"So why Fabio are you paying Tax and National insurance? if you pay these are you entitled to the benefit system because its very obvious if you do not pay these you will get more than a person who does, especially if you come from outside the country." Huh?!!  | |||
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"Do you think it is morally wrong to pay contractors cash in hand to make the work they do cheaper for you? Part way through our ten years of Austerity measures and all the cuts being made it is something I would have to consider.... What about you? Austerity or not I pay in cash if it benefits me...and sleep soundly after doing so." I should think so too, you've already declared your income, and paid tax on it! How others audit their own books is up to them 
Wolf  | |||
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"are we really talking about "cash in hand" being the bad thing... or not declaring it??? i think it is two different things...... if I am paying tax and National insurance on my work.. I don't see why others should get away with it... so as long as they are declaring "cash in hand" work... I don't have an issue.... if they aren't.. then it is tax avoidance...." correct.... and that is illegal. whilst it is not technically legal to pay cash for a job it is illegal for other contractor to fail to declare it. It is a very fine line between illegality and immorallity if a customer pays cash and knows that it will not be declared. 2 scenarios for you. the customer asks for a cash discount 'no questions asked, no receipt required' and the trader tells the customer he can 'knock off the VAT' for example if he pays cash. both of these are bordering on aiding and abetting as the customer is complicit in an attempt to defraud the taxman knowing that the trader will not declare those earnings Also to all the people who slag off richer people for using schmemes to reduce their tax bills. In a lot of these cases these schemes are here as incentives for companies to invest in the UK. In doing so they bring jobs and income to the country that otherwise may not be there if that company decides to invest elsewhere. And to those that say, the rich should pay more and the poor should pay less, be aware that the top 5% of earners in this country pay 90% of the countries tax revinue and without them we woudl be in trouble. Overtax the rich and they all piss off somewhere else. It happened in the 70's when the labour govt introduced supertax and all the countries top earners just left the country costing the economy millions in lost tax revinue. Its a very fine balance and while it is easy to say 'what does it matter, its inly a few quid' those few quid mount up to a loss of revinue elsewhere and the taxman just gets it back another way. as they say,' there are only 2 certain things in kife ,death and taxes' as someone said before, the Greeks ran there ecomony on a cash in hand basis and look where they are now. the fact is, if you agree to pay cash in hand, while it may save you money, it is no better than the trader not paying the tax. people on PAYE have to pay their tax, so should everyone else. | |||
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"Do you think it is morally wrong to pay contractors cash in hand to make the work they do cheaper for you? Part way through our ten years of Austerity measures and all the cuts being made it is something I would have to consider.... What about you? Austerity or not I pay in cash if it benefits me...and sleep soundly after doing so. I should think so too, you've already declared your income, and paid tax on it! How others audit their own books is up to them
Wolf "So you are happy paying more to compensate for others who don't? If everybody paid the correct tax we would all be paying 5% less income tax. | |||
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"Do you think it is morally wrong to pay contractors cash in hand to make the work they do cheaper for you? Part way through our ten years of Austerity measures and all the cuts being made it is something I would have to consider.... What about you? Austerity or not I pay in cash if it benefits me...and sleep soundly after doing so. I should think so too, you've already declared your income, and paid tax on it! How others audit their own books is up to them
Wolf
So you are happy paying more to compensate for others who don't? If everybody paid the correct tax we would all be paying 5% less income tax. "I don't mind paying my dues regardless of what others do as they're my dues. What others do is their business and I'm not a snitch, nor a knocker! _ophieslut... last paragraph, spot on!
Wolf
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"It's not tax avoidance to pay in cash - it's someone who doesn't pay their tax that is tax avoidance, and they personally have the responsibility for doing that. The amount of tax not paid by plumbers etc is peanuts compared to the very wealthy who avoid ££billions in tax every year, some of our government ministers and prime minister are very well versed with this. This is just a smoke and mirrors story thrown out by the government and media, owned by the 1%, who want the public to take their attention from the real problems, the real tax avoiders. There are millionaire/billionaire tax avoiders, as well as huge corporations we give our money to who use any scam they can to not pay tax. They all want to make use of public facilities, our roads, our infrastructure etc, but not pay their fair share, whilst taking the hard working tax payer's cash when we buy etc from them. The real scams of tax avoidance have been distracted from, ever since the Jimmy Carr story. The plumbers deal is just the latest. There is no need for benefit cuts if the very wealthiest paid their fair share of tax. Some of them pay nothing/next to nothing. Don't be fooled and misled by propaganda. The Nazi's were great at it, and it seems governments today use all known manipulations to get the people of this country at each other's throats, rather than against people like themselves. Remember, many government ministers etc are millionaires. They haven't been forthcoming with their financial details, including tax paid... that's just one aspect of where attention should be focused." You read far too much leftie propaganda. The rich pay legally what they have to, probably ten times what you do and more never mind 20% vat on all the luxury goods they buy. And to think there is no need for benefit cuts just take more from those who have it and give it to lazy arsed dossers claiming benefits says a lot. Propaganda by the govt? What a load of testicles! Is it wrong for the government to point out people should contribute to society? Well if they didn't all the lazy leftie spongers would have to get out of bed and work.  | |||
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"Do you think it is morally wrong to pay contractors cash in hand to make the work they do cheaper for you? Part way through our ten years of Austerity measures and all the cuts being made it is something I would have to consider.... What about you? Austerity or not I pay in cash if it benefits me...and sleep soundly after doing so. I should think so too, you've already declared your income, and paid tax on it! How others audit their own books is up to them
Wolf
So you are happy paying more to compensate for others who don't? If everybody paid the correct tax we would all be paying 5% less income tax.
I don't mind paying my dues regardless of what others do as they're my dues. What others do is their business and I'm not a snitch, nor a knocker!
_ophieslut... last paragraph, spot on!
Wolf
"A snich!A name made up by thieves and desperado s to try and ensure the gullible in society pay their share so they don't have to. Far better to pay millions out of our pocket to pay people to chance those who don't pay. | |||
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"Hello Sophie, "here is no need for benefit cuts if the very wealthiest paid their fair share of tax. Some of them pay nothing/next to nothing." What is a fair share? How do the wealthy get wealthy, there's very little inherited wealth these days. Some people earn vast amounts but for a short period, e.g. sportsmen\women but pay huge tax, which will be more than if it was averaged out over their life time. All the emphasis seems to be about getting the maximum amount of tax income but lip service to cutting the billions the government just squanders in many various ways. Alec" kenny your qoute that the top 5% pay 90% of tax is incorrect its actually the top 10% pay about 50% | |||
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"Hello Sophie, "here is no need for benefit cuts if the very wealthiest paid their fair share of tax. Some of them pay nothing/next to nothing." What is a fair share? How do the wealthy get wealthy, there's very little inherited wealth these days. Some people earn vast amounts but for a short period, e.g. sportsmen\women but pay huge tax, which will be more than if it was averaged out over their life time. All the emphasis seems to be about getting the maximum amount of tax income but lip service to cutting the billions the government just squanders in many various ways. Alec kenny your qoute that the top 5% pay 90% of tax is incorrect its actually the top 10% pay about 50%" That's only income tax not tax in general Kenny is closer for all tax revenue. | |||
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" And to think there is no need for benefit cuts just take more from those who have it and give it to lazy arsed dossers claiming benefits says a lot. " what... like the EU with all those subsidies and loans that are basically drops in the ocean? " Propaganda by the govt? What a load of testicles! Is it wrong for the government to point out people should contribute to society? Well if they didn't all the lazy leftie spongers would have to get out of bed and work. "As for propaganda. If you think any government since the war has not used those techniques to cover its own tracks... then you're sorely mistaken. And as for the so called 'lazy leftie spongers' on benefits... do you think any of them have *any* incitement to vote for the present government at this time. What's next - cut the winter fuel payments on pensioners, take back the bus passes? When these 'lazy leftie pensioners' get those sort of things cut and have to pay from their meagre budgets don't be surprised if more of them die because they can't afford to heat or feed themselves - but then that's how the Government would like it... kill off all the sick, disabled and elderly and have a nation of selfish and begrudging taxpayers running their own judge jury and executions! So you see, tax doesn't have to be taxing... but attacking those who are on the limits trading, coping and existing is not the place to be looking. Some of these people keep the country ticking over, and provide votes that elect governments to office. Wolf
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"But 'without soundin / bein racist etc'. I think 'some' foreignours get a 'How to fleece the UK Government & its many adventages' book, a case load of cash, keys for house & car handed to them as they enter our country!! " If you truly believe that immigrants get a case load of cash, keys to a house and a car handed to them then you really have very little idea of real life do you? | |||
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"Hello Sophie, "here is no need for benefit cuts if the very wealthiest paid their fair share of tax. Some of them pay nothing/next to nothing." What is a fair share? How do the wealthy get wealthy, there's very little inherited wealth these days. Some people earn vast amounts but for a short period, e.g. sportsmen\women but pay huge tax, which will be more than if it was averaged out over their life time. All the emphasis seems to be about getting the maximum amount of tax income but lip service to cutting the billions the government just squanders in many various ways. Alec kenny your qoute that the top 5% pay 90% of tax is incorrect its actually the top 10% pay about 50% That's only income tax not tax in general Kenny is closer for all tax revenue. " How do you work that out - if the higher earners spend all their money they only pay around 20% more and this is offset by the masses paying VAT also | |||
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" A snich!A name made up by thieves and desperado s to try and ensure the gullible in society pay their share so they don't have to. " I'm a loveable rogue who does things by the book, I'll have you know ;)
Wolf | |||
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" And to think there is no need for benefit cuts just take more from those who have it and give it to lazy arsed dossers claiming benefits says a lot. what... like the EU with all those subsidies and loans that are basically drops in the ocean? Propaganda by the govt? What a load of testicles! Is it wrong for the government to point out people should contribute to society? Well if they didn't all the lazy leftie spongers would have to get out of bed and work.
As for propaganda. If you think any government since the war has not used those techniques to cover its own tracks... then you're sorely mistaken.
And as for the so called 'lazy leftie spongers' on benefits... do you think any of them have *any* incitement to vote for the present government at this time.
What's next - cut the winter fuel payments on pensioners, take back the bus passes?
When these 'lazy leftie pensioners' get those sort of things cut and have to pay from their meagre budgets don't be surprised if more of them die because they can't afford to heat or feed themselves - but then that's how the Government would like it... kill off all the sick, disabled and elderly and have a nation of selfish and begrudging taxpayers running their own judge jury and executions!
So you see, tax doesn't have to be taxing... but attacking those who are on the limits trading, coping and existing is not the place to be looking. Some of these people keep the country ticking over, and provide votes that elect governments to office.
Wolf
"Nobody mentioned pensioners did they? The majority worked for their pension but and its a big but they retired far earlier than you and me will. Its an interesting point if we should pay more for their retirement but hey if you feel strongly why not put £200 a month towards a charity for the aged.
Tax wise is bolloxed by the people who abuse it. I would make tax a flat rate with no exceptions or loops for people generating more than 10k. Nobody though should be paying more than a third of what they generate in tax.
Do I believe we should soak he sponges? No not at all people should make their own way in life not sit with hands out. | |||
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"Hello Sophie, "here is no need for benefit cuts if the very wealthiest paid their fair share of tax. Some of them pay nothing/next to nothing." What is a fair share? How do the wealthy get wealthy, there's very little inherited wealth these days. Some people earn vast amounts but for a short period, e.g. sportsmen\women but pay huge tax, which will be more than if it was averaged out over their life time. All the emphasis seems to be about getting the maximum amount of tax income but lip service to cutting the billions the government just squanders in many various ways. Alec kenny your qoute that the top 5% pay 90% of tax is incorrect its actually the top 10% pay about 50% That's only income tax not tax in general Kenny is closer for all tax revenue. How do you work that out - if the higher earners spend all their money they only pay around 20% more and this is offset by the masses paying VAT also" How do I work it out lol well there are far more taxes than Vat and income tax. Go look it up, start with death duty, fuel tax, stamp duty and all the rest it adds up to nearer what Kenny said. | |||
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"You can pick them out, dressed better than a native, ie usually tracksuits, designer trainers, jewelery top of the range mobile phones most have a BMW or large saloon, if a baby is invovled top of the range equipment I also understand that the voucher system is still in use and if not enough more is provided, Yes I live in the real world and have been in it since the doors were open, I also understand if they commit crime they cannot be deported, it maybe true it may not. " You are right.....most of what you are stating is not true....but hey, don't let facts get in the way of a little bit of truth. | |||
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"Both rich people avoiding paying tax AND tradesmen not paying tax are both THIEVES! Its totally laughable some think its ok for one group but not the other. I wonder how many are stealing form the taxman? We all pay or nobody pays that is only fair. "Totally agree - I've always paid my PAYE tax, as well as tiny amounts on savings - everyone should pay. However, a certain few defraud our county of £billions in unpaid tax, far more than others put together. We can do things the hard way, chase a few thousand for a few pounds, or we can close loopholes and get £billions. The global unpaid tax is significantly more than the US economy, and factored for British residents etc, it's significantly more than our benefits system, education or healthcare deficits. But the sheep follow the propaganda machine and don't question the big people, who conventiently control our media, political machine etc. David Cameron's (millions) wealth is gained via his family's tax avoidance business, so he's hardly going to be stopping much. Ashcroft - senior Tory chair etc, was made a Lord, and did not become a tax payer, despite his pledges. Tax avoidance is rife within the conservative con merchants. Our politicians should publish their financial affairs in detail. And pay appropriate tax. | |||
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"Hello Sophie, "here is no need for benefit cuts if the very wealthiest paid their fair share of tax. Some of them pay nothing/next to nothing." What is a fair share? How do the wealthy get wealthy, there's very little inherited wealth these days. Some people earn vast amounts but for a short period, e.g. sportsmen\women but pay huge tax, which will be more than if it was averaged out over their life time. All the emphasis seems to be about getting the maximum amount of tax income but lip service to cutting the billions the government just squanders in many various ways. Alec kenny your qoute that the top 5% pay 90% of tax is incorrect its actually the top 10% pay about 50% That's only income tax not tax in general Kenny is closer for all tax revenue. How do you work that out - if the higher earners spend all their money they only pay around 20% more and this is offset by the masses paying VAT also How do I work it out lol well there are far more taxes than Vat and income tax. Go look it up, start with death duty, fuel tax, stamp duty and all the rest it adds up to nearer what Kenny said. " I did look and it doesnt add up to anywhere near kennys claim | |||
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"Hello Sophie, "here is no need for benefit cuts if the very wealthiest paid their fair share of tax. Some of them pay nothing/next to nothing." What is a fair share? How do the wealthy get wealthy, there's very little inherited wealth these days. Some people earn vast amounts but for a short period, e.g. sportsmen\women but pay huge tax, which will be more than if it was averaged out over their life time. All the emphasis seems to be about getting the maximum amount of tax income but lip service to cutting the billions the government just squanders in many various ways. Alec kenny your qoute that the top 5% pay 90% of tax is incorrect its actually the top 10% pay about 50% That's only income tax not tax in general Kenny is closer for all tax revenue. How do you work that out - if the higher earners spend all their money they only pay around 20% more and this is offset by the masses paying VAT also How do I work it out lol well there are far more taxes than Vat and income tax. Go look it up, start with death duty, fuel tax, stamp duty and all the rest it adds up to nearer what Kenny said. I did look and it doesnt add up to anywhere near kennys claim" and as we already know the super rich avoid paying a lot of taxes which the rest have to pay | |||
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"Hello Sophie, "here is no need for benefit cuts if the very wealthiest paid their fair share of tax. Some of them pay nothing/next to nothing." What is a fair share? How do the wealthy get wealthy, there's very little inherited wealth these days. Some people earn vast amounts but for a short period, e.g. sportsmen\women but pay huge tax, which will be more than if it was averaged out over their life time. All the emphasis seems to be about getting the maximum amount of tax income but lip service to cutting the billions the government just squanders in many various ways. Alec kenny your qoute that the top 5% pay 90% of tax is incorrect its actually the top 10% pay about 50% That's only income tax not tax in general Kenny is closer for all tax revenue. How do you work that out - if the higher earners spend all their money they only pay around 20% more and this is offset by the masses paying VAT also How do I work it out lol well there are far more taxes than Vat and income tax. Go look it up, start with death duty, fuel tax, stamp duty and all the rest it adds up to nearer what Kenny said. I did look and it doesnt add up to anywhere near kennys claim" What are the taxes you added up? did you get them all? | |||
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"Hello Sophie, "here is no need for benefit cuts if the very wealthiest paid their fair share of tax. Some of them pay nothing/next to nothing." What is a fair share? How do the wealthy get wealthy, there's very little inherited wealth these days. Some people earn vast amounts but for a short period, e.g. sportsmen\women but pay huge tax, which will be more than if it was averaged out over their life time. All the emphasis seems to be about getting the maximum amount of tax income but lip service to cutting the billions the government just squanders in many various ways. Alec kenny your qoute that the top 5% pay 90% of tax is incorrect its actually the top 10% pay about 50% That's only income tax not tax in general Kenny is closer for all tax revenue. How do you work that out - if the higher earners spend all their money they only pay around 20% more and this is offset by the masses paying VAT also How do I work it out lol well there are far more taxes than Vat and income tax. Go look it up, start with death duty, fuel tax, stamp duty and all the rest it adds up to nearer what Kenny said. I did look and it doesnt add up to anywhere near kennys claim and as we already know the super rich avoid paying a lot of taxes which the rest have to pay" I think kenny is getting mixed up with 5% of th people having 90% of the wealth  | |||
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"Hello Sophie, "here is no need for benefit cuts if the very wealthiest paid their fair share of tax. Some of them pay nothing/next to nothing." What is a fair share? How do the wealthy get wealthy, there's very little inherited wealth these days. Some people earn vast amounts but for a short period, e.g. sportsmen\women but pay huge tax, which will be more than if it was averaged out over their life time. All the emphasis seems to be about getting the maximum amount of tax income but lip service to cutting the billions the government just squanders in many various ways. Alec kenny your qoute that the top 5% pay 90% of tax is incorrect its actually the top 10% pay about 50% That's only income tax not tax in general Kenny is closer for all tax revenue. How do you work that out - if the higher earners spend all their money they only pay around 20% more and this is offset by the masses paying VAT also How do I work it out lol well there are far more taxes than Vat and income tax. Go look it up, start with death duty, fuel tax, stamp duty and all the rest it adds up to nearer what Kenny said. I did look and it doesnt add up to anywhere near kennys claim and as we already know the super rich avoid paying a lot of taxes which the rest have to pay I think kenny is getting mixed up with 5% of th people having 90% of the wealth "To me it looks like you don't have a clue, haven't looked anything up and are just guessing and getting it totally wrong. | |||
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"Hello Sophie, "here is no need for benefit cuts if the very wealthiest paid their fair share of tax. Some of them pay nothing/next to nothing." What is a fair share? How do the wealthy get wealthy, there's very little inherited wealth these days. Some people earn vast amounts but for a short period, e.g. sportsmen\women but pay huge tax, which will be more than if it was averaged out over their life time. All the emphasis seems to be about getting the maximum amount of tax income but lip service to cutting the billions the government just squanders in many various ways. Alec kenny your qoute that the top 5% pay 90% of tax is incorrect its actually the top 10% pay about 50% That's only income tax not tax in general Kenny is closer for all tax revenue. How do you work that out - if the higher earners spend all their money they only pay around 20% more and this is offset by the masses paying VAT also How do I work it out lol well there are far more taxes than Vat and income tax. Go look it up, start with death duty, fuel tax, stamp duty and all the rest it adds up to nearer what Kenny said. I did look and it doesnt add up to anywhere near kennys claim What are the taxes you added up? did you get them all? " Yes I looked at the HMRC spredsheet for 2011-12 of course it doesnt say who paid what but fuel, tobacco, wine, beer tax etc affects us all to the same degree more or less the onlyotax that affects the rich disproportionatly is death/inheritance tax but even that gap has narrowed | |||
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"Hello Sophie, "here is no need for benefit cuts if the very wealthiest paid their fair share of tax. Some of them pay nothing/next to nothing." What is a fair share? How do the wealthy get wealthy, there's very little inherited wealth these days. Some people earn vast amounts but for a short period, e.g. sportsmen\women but pay huge tax, which will be more than if it was averaged out over their life time. All the emphasis seems to be about getting the maximum amount of tax income but lip service to cutting the billions the government just squanders in many various ways. Alec kenny your qoute that the top 5% pay 90% of tax is incorrect its actually the top 10% pay about 50% That's only income tax not tax in general Kenny is closer for all tax revenue. How do you work that out - if the higher earners spend all their money they only pay around 20% more and this is offset by the masses paying VAT also How do I work it out lol well there are far more taxes than Vat and income tax. Go look it up, start with death duty, fuel tax, stamp duty and all the rest it adds up to nearer what Kenny said. I did look and it doesnt add up to anywhere near kennys claim What are the taxes you added up? did you get them all? Yes I looked at the HMRC spredsheet for 2011-12 of course it doesnt say who paid what but fuel, tobacco, wine, beer tax etc affects us all to the same degree more or less the onlyotax that affects the rich disproportionatly is death/inheritance tax but even that gap has narrowed" I think Montes right you are guessing as it really doesn't say who paid what. | |||
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"Hello Sophie, "here is no need for benefit cuts if the very wealthiest paid their fair share of tax. Some of them pay nothing/next to nothing." What is a fair share? How do the wealthy get wealthy, there's very little inherited wealth these days. Some people earn vast amounts but for a short period, e.g. sportsmen\women but pay huge tax, which will be more than if it was averaged out over their life time. All the emphasis seems to be about getting the maximum amount of tax income but lip service to cutting the billions the government just squanders in many various ways. Alec kenny your qoute that the top 5% pay 90% of tax is incorrect its actually the top 10% pay about 50% That's only income tax not tax in general Kenny is closer for all tax revenue. How do you work that out - if the higher earners spend all their money they only pay around 20% more and this is offset by the masses paying VAT also How do I work it out lol well there are far more taxes than Vat and income tax. Go look it up, start with death duty, fuel tax, stamp duty and all the rest it adds up to nearer what Kenny said. I did look and it doesnt add up to anywhere near kennys claim and as we already know the super rich avoid paying a lot of taxes which the rest have to pay I think kenny is getting mixed up with 5% of th people having 90% of the wealth
To me it looks like you don't have a clue, haven't looked anything up and are just guessing and getting it totally wrong. "Here is the link http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/tax_receipts/tax-receipts-and-taxpayers.pdf I 'm not making the claims with out anything to back it up - show me anything which supports kenniy's claims Im willing to be proved wrong | |||
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"Hello Sophie, "here is no need for benefit cuts if the very wealthiest paid their fair share of tax. Some of them pay nothing/next to nothing." What is a fair share? How do the wealthy get wealthy, there's very little inherited wealth these days. Some people earn vast amounts but for a short period, e.g. sportsmen\women but pay huge tax, which will be more than if it was averaged out over their life time. All the emphasis seems to be about getting the maximum amount of tax income but lip service to cutting the billions the government just squanders in many various ways. Alec kenny your qoute that the top 5% pay 90% of tax is incorrect its actually the top 10% pay about 50% That's only income tax not tax in general Kenny is closer for all tax revenue. How do you work that out - if the higher earners spend all their money they only pay around 20% more and this is offset by the masses paying VAT also How do I work it out lol well there are far more taxes than Vat and income tax. Go look it up, start with death duty, fuel tax, stamp duty and all the rest it adds up to nearer what Kenny said. I did look and it doesnt add up to anywhere near kennys claim What are the taxes you added up? did you get them all? Yes I looked at the HMRC spredsheet for 2011-12 of course it doesnt say who paid what but fuel, tobacco, wine, beer tax etc affects us all to the same degree more or less the onlyotax that affects the rich disproportionatly is death/inheritance tax but even that gap has narrowed" Lmao sorry but its a percentage of wealth earned so it does affect the rich disproportionately. 40% of 500k is 200k which is 40 times what Joe average pays and so on. It just sounds like you are bitter and want to stuff it to the man who earns more than you. | |||
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"Hello Sophie, "here is no need for benefit cuts if the very wealthiest paid their fair share of tax. Some of them pay nothing/next to nothing." What is a fair share? How do the wealthy get wealthy, there's very little inherited wealth these days. Some people earn vast amounts but for a short period, e.g. sportsmen\women but pay huge tax, which will be more than if it was averaged out over their life time. All the emphasis seems to be about getting the maximum amount of tax income but lip service to cutting the billions the government just squanders in many various ways. Alec kenny your qoute that the top 5% pay 90% of tax is incorrect its actually the top 10% pay about 50% That's only income tax not tax in general Kenny is closer for all tax revenue. How do you work that out - if the higher earners spend all their money they only pay around 20% more and this is offset by the masses paying VAT also How do I work it out lol well there are far more taxes than Vat and income tax. Go look it up, start with death duty, fuel tax, stamp duty and all the rest it adds up to nearer what Kenny said. I did look and it doesnt add up to anywhere near kennys claim What are the taxes you added up? did you get them all? Yes I looked at the HMRC spredsheet for 2011-12 of course it doesnt say who paid what but fuel, tobacco, wine, beer tax etc affects us all to the same degree more or less the onlyotax that affects the rich disproportionatly is death/inheritance tax but even that gap has narrowed Lmao sorry but its a percentage of wealth earned so it does affect the rich disproportionately. 40% of 500k is 200k which is 40 times what Joe average pays and so on. It just sounds like you are bitter and want to stuff it to the man who earns more than you. "have you followed the discusiion - we are taking about the total tax take from the top 5% either find some evidence or stop trying to make assumptions about me | |||
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"Hello Sophie, "here is no need for benefit cuts if the very wealthiest paid their fair share of tax. Some of them pay nothing/next to nothing." What is a fair share? How do the wealthy get wealthy, there's very little inherited wealth these days. Some people earn vast amounts but for a short period, e.g. sportsmen\women but pay huge tax, which will be more than if it was averaged out over their life time. All the emphasis seems to be about getting the maximum amount of tax income but lip service to cutting the billions the government just squanders in many various ways. Alec kenny your qoute that the top 5% pay 90% of tax is incorrect its actually the top 10% pay about 50% That's only income tax not tax in general Kenny is closer for all tax revenue. How do you work that out - if the higher earners spend all their money they only pay around 20% more and this is offset by the masses paying VAT also How do I work it out lol well there are far more taxes than Vat and income tax. Go look it up, start with death duty, fuel tax, stamp duty and all the rest it adds up to nearer what Kenny said. I did look and it doesnt add up to anywhere near kennys claim What are the taxes you added up? did you get them all? Yes I looked at the HMRC spredsheet for 2011-12 of course it doesnt say who paid what but fuel, tobacco, wine, beer tax etc affects us all to the same degree more or less the onlyotax that affects the rich disproportionatly is death/inheritance tax but even that gap has narrowed Lmao sorry but its a percentage of wealth earned so it does affect the rich disproportionately. 40% of 500k is 200k which is 40 times what Joe average pays and so on. It just sounds like you are bitter and want to stuff it to the man who earns more than you.
have you followed the discusiion - we are taking about the total tax take from the top 5% either find some evidence or stop trying to make assumptions about me"We are talking about how much tax the top 5% pay I have found nothing to support kenny's claim but plenty to counter it | |||
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"I dont know if its true or where I heard or see it, but dont we have like 3 classes of National Insurance / taxes? Like for Self employed for eg.?? Say for instance if you 'where' Self Employed or maybe when employed you should pay Class 1,2 & 3? Or do you only pay 1, 2 or 3 depending on what business your in and how much money you make?? Or else when and if you ever had to go on the Social to get help with benefits Job Seekers Allowance etc, you only get what you have paid for in the past, and only for as long as that class can run for before you dont get more Benefits / social money?? Or am i on the completley wrong path? I still think as british, we arent told what we are or arent allowed to claim for or get help with payouts / housing JSA etc. And can have difficulty finding out answeres to get help. But 'without soundin / bein racist etc'. I think 'some' foreignours get a 'How to fleece the UK Government & its many adventages' book, a case load of cash, keys for house & car handed to them as they enter our country!! " I wondered when Johnny Foreigner would get a mention. | |||
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"Just a thought... Seeing as many banks have phased out cheque books and small traders won't have the means to process debit or credit cards.. How exactly are their customers expected to pay? So it's been agreed that it's down the the contractor to declare the money taken... But if he is been paid cash... How would the householder know it's going through the books? Ok the contractor may write a receipt but for all we know he may be fiddling with them. We could be paying cash... And the full price for the work includes vat yet the trader skims the lot as cash in his arse pocket. Only way for sure is by paying by cheque that goes into a business account and not personal account. Steve. " The inherant problem with cash-only businesses/tradesmen is that they do jobs for people from all walks of life and have no way of knowing if a customer works for the tax office, or is a policeman, etc etc, and as such he runs a huge risk of being caught out collecting vat and not passing it over to the treasury. I'm not vat registered (yet) and I make a point of highlighting that to my customers. I make no profit on materials apart from a small % to cover wear and tear on my vehicle and the time it takes me to go to different local suppliers collecting the parts I need to complete their project. I give them the price I paid as that's what they would have paid had they bought it themselves. My 'profits' is in my time and that it clear to my customers from the outset. Obvsiously, I have my running costs: vehicle insurance, professional memberships etc and if I don't put money through the business account I can't claim those expenses back. Having said that, customers have slipped me an extra £40 if the job has run over massively time-wise, and that is back pocket money as far as I'm concerned and when my accounts are due what's on the invoice will go through the business. This junior minister who has highlighted tradesmen as not paying the taxes due has no idea of the amounts involved and it's chicken-feed compared to other tax scams out there. He's plucked £2bn out of thin air as far as I'm concerned. | |||
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"Hello Sophie, "here is no need for benefit cuts if the very wealthiest paid their fair share of tax. Some of them pay nothing/next to nothing." What is a fair share? How do the wealthy get wealthy, there's very little inherited wealth these days. Some people earn vast amounts but for a short period, e.g. sportsmen\women but pay huge tax, which will be more than if it was averaged out over their life time. All the emphasis seems to be about getting the maximum amount of tax income but lip service to cutting the billions the government just squanders in many various ways. Alec kenny your qoute that the top 5% pay 90% of tax is incorrect its actually the top 10% pay about 50% That's only income tax not tax in general Kenny is closer for all tax revenue. How do you work that out - if the higher earners spend all their money they only pay around 20% more and this is offset by the masses paying VAT also How do I work it out lol well there are far more taxes than Vat and income tax. Go look it up, start with death duty, fuel tax, stamp duty and all the rest it adds up to nearer what Kenny said. I did look and it doesnt add up to anywhere near kennys claim What are the taxes you added up? did you get them all? Yes I looked at the HMRC spredsheet for 2011-12 of course it doesnt say who paid what but fuel, tobacco, wine, beer tax etc affects us all to the same degree more or less the onlyotax that affects the rich disproportionatly is death/inheritance tax but even that gap has narrowed Lmao sorry but its a percentage of wealth earned so it does affect the rich disproportionately. 40% of 500k is 200k which is 40 times what Joe average pays and so on. It just sounds like you are bitter and want to stuff it to the man who earns more than you.
have you followed the discusiion - we are taking about the total tax take from the top 5% either find some evidence or stop trying to make assumptions about me"Love it don't make assumptions about me whilst assuming I haven't been following the subject! Classic that is are you trying to be funny or falling over your shoe laces? Well I really don't know how to simplify it enough for you to understand how the top 5% of earners and really not going to bother as its beyond you and your absurd generalisations. Go get yourself booked on a economics class in September it may help. | |||
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"Hello Sophie, "here is no need for benefit cuts if the very wealthiest paid their fair share of tax. Some of them pay nothing/next to nothing." What is a fair share? How do the wealthy get wealthy, there's very little inherited wealth these days. Some people earn vast amounts but for a short period, e.g. sportsmen\women but pay huge tax, which will be more than if it was averaged out over their life time. All the emphasis seems to be about getting the maximum amount of tax income but lip service to cutting the billions the government just squanders in many various ways. Alec kenny your qoute that the top 5% pay 90% of tax is incorrect its actually the top 10% pay about 50% That's only income tax not tax in general Kenny is closer for all tax revenue. How do you work that out - if the higher earners spend all their money they only pay around 20% more and this is offset by the masses paying VAT also How do I work it out lol well there are far more taxes than Vat and income tax. Go look it up, start with death duty, fuel tax, stamp duty and all the rest it adds up to nearer what Kenny said. I did look and it doesnt add up to anywhere near kennys claim What are the taxes you added up? did you get them all? Yes I looked at the HMRC spredsheet for 2011-12 of course it doesnt say who paid what but fuel, tobacco, wine, beer tax etc affects us all to the same degree more or less the onlyotax that affects the rich disproportionatly is death/inheritance tax but even that gap has narrowed Lmao sorry but its a percentage of wealth earned so it does affect the rich disproportionately. 40% of 500k is 200k which is 40 times what Joe average pays and so on. It just sounds like you are bitter and want to stuff it to the man who earns more than you.
have you followed the discusiion - we are taking about the total tax take from the top 5% either find some evidence or stop trying to make assumptions about me
Love it don't make assumptions about me whilst assuming I haven't been following the subject! Classic that is are you trying to be funny or falling over your shoe laces?
Well I really don't know how to simplify it enough for you to understand how the top 5% of earners and really not going to bother as its beyond you and your absurd generalisations. Go get yourself booked on a economics class in September it may help. "Just as i thought no evidence so you resort to trying to belittle someone and personal attacks | |||
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"Well where to wade in here? I have to be honest and say i niether know nor care what the tax take from the top is. They hold most of the assets so it wouldn't suprise me to hear that they pay more, the statistic that counts is percentage of income paid in tax, which however you cut it is far lower for those on self assesment than those on paye, thats why people want to be on SA not PAYE. (incidentaly there are 3 classes of nic class 1 and class 3 are PAYE for employee and employer respectively, class 2 is a flat rate for Self employed people and also jsa/income support benefit recievers). Complaining about people on benefits or imigrants for that matter is a smoke screen relative to this argument. Commenting on leftie propaganda is at wost contemptable and at best naieve (leftie propaganda as opposed to rightie propaganda? start a new thread on this if you like) I have to agree with wishy, for the most part. Take these as hypothetical figures but targeting 1000 people for a £10 dodge is far less efficient than targetting 10 people for a £1000 dodge. I would then argue that I dont care that without the dodge small business men would go out of business, that's capitalism, if you dont like it aggitate for a more left wing interpretation of how to run an ecconomy." A £10 pound dodge?? When have you ever seen anyone turn up for less than a £50 bill. Most want a min of a couple of hundred and thats £40 vat and a lot of 40's add up. I know at least a dozen who regularly pull in £5000 cash in hand a year. It all adds up and good on them for fiddling the system but will laugh too if they get caught as its still theft. | |||
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"Hello Sophie, "here is no need for benefit cuts if the very wealthiest paid their fair share of tax. Some of them pay nothing/next to nothing." What is a fair share? How do the wealthy get wealthy, there's very little inherited wealth these days. Some people earn vast amounts but for a short period, e.g. sportsmen\women but pay huge tax, which will be more than if it was averaged out over their life time. All the emphasis seems to be about getting the maximum amount of tax income but lip service to cutting the billions the government just squanders in many various ways. Alec kenny your qoute that the top 5% pay 90% of tax is incorrect its actually the top 10% pay about 50% That's only income tax not tax in general Kenny is closer for all tax revenue. How do you work that out - if the higher earners spend all their money they only pay around 20% more and this is offset by the masses paying VAT also How do I work it out lol well there are far more taxes than Vat and income tax. Go look it up, start with death duty, fuel tax, stamp duty and all the rest it adds up to nearer what Kenny said. I did look and it doesnt add up to anywhere near kennys claim What are the taxes you added up? did you get them all? Yes I looked at the HMRC spredsheet for 2011-12 of course it doesnt say who paid what but fuel, tobacco, wine, beer tax etc affects us all to the same degree more or less the onlyotax that affects the rich disproportionatly is death/inheritance tax but even that gap has narrowed Lmao sorry but its a percentage of wealth earned so it does affect the rich disproportionately. 40% of 500k is 200k which is 40 times what Joe average pays and so on. It just sounds like you are bitter and want to stuff it to the man who earns more than you.
have you followed the discusiion - we are taking about the total tax take from the top 5% either find some evidence or stop trying to make assumptions about me
Love it don't make assumptions about me whilst assuming I haven't been following the subject! Classic that is are you trying to be funny or falling over your shoe laces?
Well I really don't know how to simplify it enough for you to understand how the top 5% of earners and really not going to bother as its beyond you and your absurd generalisations. Go get yourself booked on a economics class in September it may help.
Just as i thought no evidence so you resort to trying to belittle someone and personal attacks"He has a point you are talking out the wrong end with sweet FA facts! | |||
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"Why not just use Jimmy Carr's accountant, if its not illegal and its saving yourself hard earned money then do it. This country is taxed too heavily as it is, maybe the tax laws should be reviewed then people wouldn't dodge tax. The COUNTRY is not taxed too heavily. The rich should be far more than they are , the wages of the poor should be increased by government regulation and the price of property and rents should also be decreased by government regulation. " So people dont make a country, a country? Read your reply. | |||
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"Well where to wade in here? I have to be honest and say i niether know nor care what the tax take from the top is. They hold most of the assets so it wouldn't suprise me to hear that they pay more, the statistic that counts is percentage of income paid in tax, which however you cut it is far lower for those on self assesment than those on paye, thats why people want to be on SA not PAYE. (incidentaly there are 3 classes of nic class 1 and class 3 are PAYE for employee and employer respectively, class 2 is a flat rate for Self employed people and also jsa/income support benefit recievers). Complaining about people on benefits or imigrants for that matter is a smoke screen relative to this argument. Commenting on leftie propaganda is at wost contemptable and at best naieve (leftie propaganda as opposed to rightie propaganda? start a new thread on this if you like) I have to agree with wishy, for the most part. Take these as hypothetical figures but targeting 1000 people for a £10 dodge is far less efficient than targetting 10 people for a £1000 dodge. I would then argue that I dont care that without the dodge small business men would go out of business, that's capitalism, if you dont like it aggitate for a more left wing interpretation of how to run an ecconomy. A £10 pound dodge?? When have you ever seen anyone turn up for less than a £50 bill. Most want a min of a couple of hundred and thats £40 vat and a lot of 40's add up. I know at least a dozen who regularly pull in £5000 cash in hand a year. It all adds up and good on them for fiddling the system but will laugh too if they get caught as its still theft. " what part of hypothetical dont you understand? | |||
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"Well where to wade in here? I have to be honest and say i niether know nor care what the tax take from the top is. They hold most of the assets so it wouldn't suprise me to hear that they pay more, the statistic that counts is percentage of income paid in tax, which however you cut it is far lower for those on self assesment than those on paye, thats why people want to be on SA not PAYE. (incidentaly there are 3 classes of nic class 1 and class 3 are PAYE for employee and employer respectively, class 2 is a flat rate for Self employed people and also jsa/income support benefit recievers). Complaining about people on benefits or imigrants for that matter is a smoke screen relative to this argument. Commenting on leftie propaganda is at wost contemptable and at best naieve (leftie propaganda as opposed to rightie propaganda? start a new thread on this if you like) I have to agree with wishy, for the most part. Take these as hypothetical figures but targeting 1000 people for a £10 dodge is far less efficient than targetting 10 people for a £1000 dodge. I would then argue that I dont care that without the dodge small business men would go out of business, that's capitalism, if you dont like it aggitate for a more left wing interpretation of how to run an ecconomy. A £10 pound dodge?? When have you ever seen anyone turn up for less than a £50 bill. Most want a min of a couple of hundred and thats £40 vat and a lot of 40's add up. I know at least a dozen who regularly pull in £5000 cash in hand a year. It all adds up and good on them for fiddling the system but will laugh too if they get caught as its still theft. what part of hypothetical dont you understand?" I live in the real world with a real job and pay real taxes not hypothetical ones. The thread is about real taxes not cloud cuckoo ones! | |||
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"Well where to wade in here? I have to be honest and say i niether know nor care what the tax take from the top is. They hold most of the assets so it wouldn't suprise me to hear that they pay more, the statistic that counts is percentage of income paid in tax, which however you cut it is far lower for those on self assesment than those on paye, thats why people want to be on SA not PAYE. (incidentaly there are 3 classes of nic class 1 and class 3 are PAYE for employee and employer respectively, class 2 is a flat rate for Self employed people and also jsa/income support benefit recievers). Complaining about people on benefits or imigrants for that matter is a smoke screen relative to this argument. Commenting on leftie propaganda is at wost contemptable and at best naieve (leftie propaganda as opposed to rightie propaganda? start a new thread on this if you like) I have to agree with wishy, for the most part. Take these as hypothetical figures but targeting 1000 people for a £10 dodge is far less efficient than targetting 10 people for a £1000 dodge. I would then argue that I dont care that without the dodge small business men would go out of business, that's capitalism, if you dont like it aggitate for a more left wing interpretation of how to run an ecconomy. A £10 pound dodge?? When have you ever seen anyone turn up for less than a £50 bill. Most want a min of a couple of hundred and thats £40 vat and a lot of 40's add up. I know at least a dozen who regularly pull in £5000 cash in hand a year. It all adds up and good on them for fiddling the system but will laugh too if they get caught as its still theft. what part of hypothetical dont you understand? I live in the real world with a real job and pay real taxes not hypothetical ones. The thread is about real taxes not cloud cuckoo ones! " well thats as good an excuse for not having read or missunderstanding my thread as any other i suppose. My point was that it is far mor efficient (ie you get the best results for the least work) changing the rules to stop the tax dodges of a billionaire dodging a million in tax than a millionaire dodgin a thousand (be carefull in your response, you will not that the percentiles are exactly the same...) | |||
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"Well where to wade in here? I have to be honest and say i niether know nor care what the tax take from the top is. They hold most of the assets so it wouldn't suprise me to hear that they pay more, the statistic that counts is percentage of income paid in tax, which however you cut it is far lower for those on self assesment than those on paye, thats why people want to be on SA not PAYE. (incidentaly there are 3 classes of nic class 1 and class 3 are PAYE for employee and employer respectively, class 2 is a flat rate for Self employed people and also jsa/income support benefit recievers). Complaining about people on benefits or imigrants for that matter is a smoke screen relative to this argument. Commenting on leftie propaganda is at wost contemptable and at best naieve (leftie propaganda as opposed to rightie propaganda? start a new thread on this if you like) I have to agree with wishy, for the most part. Take these as hypothetical figures but targeting 1000 people for a £10 dodge is far less efficient than targetting 10 people for a £1000 dodge. I would then argue that I dont care that without the dodge small business men would go out of business, that's capitalism, if you dont like it aggitate for a more left wing interpretation of how to run an ecconomy. A £10 pound dodge?? When have you ever seen anyone turn up for less than a £50 bill. Most want a min of a couple of hundred and thats £40 vat and a lot of 40's add up. I know at least a dozen who regularly pull in £5000 cash in hand a year. It all adds up and good on them for fiddling the system but will laugh too if they get caught as its still theft. what part of hypothetical dont you understand? I live in the real world with a real job and pay real taxes not hypothetical ones. The thread is about real taxes not cloud cuckoo ones! well thats as good an excuse for not having read or missunderstanding my thread as any other i suppose. My point was that it is far mor efficient (ie you get the best results for the least work) changing the rules to stop the tax dodges of a billionaire dodging a million in tax than a millionaire dodgin a thousand (be carefull in your response, you will not that the percentiles are exactly the same...)" No your point is deception insinuating the cheeky builder is only dodging £10 while the nasty rich guy is dodging billions. You are exaggerating the truth as much as possible to try and get your point across. Its the typical lefty agenda biased, incorrect and decisive. | |||
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"Well where to wade in here? I have to be honest and say i niether know nor care what the tax take from the top is. They hold most of the assets so it wouldn't suprise me to hear that they pay more, the statistic that counts is percentage of income paid in tax, which however you cut it is far lower for those on self assesment than those on paye, thats why people want to be on SA not PAYE. (incidentaly there are 3 classes of nic class 1 and class 3 are PAYE for employee and employer respectively, class 2 is a flat rate for Self employed people and also jsa/income support benefit recievers). Complaining about people on benefits or imigrants for that matter is a smoke screen relative to this argument. Commenting on leftie propaganda is at wost contemptable and at best naieve (leftie propaganda as opposed to rightie propaganda? start a new thread on this if you like) I have to agree with wishy, for the most part. Take these as hypothetical figures but targeting 1000 people for a £10 dodge is far less efficient than targetting 10 people for a £1000 dodge. I would then argue that I dont care that without the dodge small business men would go out of business, that's capitalism, if you dont like it aggitate for a more left wing interpretation of how to run an ecconomy. A £10 pound dodge?? When have you ever seen anyone turn up for less than a £50 bill. Most want a min of a couple of hundred and thats £40 vat and a lot of 40's add up. I know at least a dozen who regularly pull in £5000 cash in hand a year. It all adds up and good on them for fiddling the system but will laugh too if they get caught as its still theft. what part of hypothetical dont you understand?" George insinuating people are dodging paying £10 makes your argument look pretty crap. The reality tax dodging isn't for single ten pound notes but hundreds on them sadly. | |||
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"Well where to wade in here? I have to be honest and say i niether know nor care what the tax take from the top is. They hold most of the assets so it wouldn't suprise me to hear that they pay more, the statistic that counts is percentage of income paid in tax, which however you cut it is far lower for those on self assesment than those on paye, thats why people want to be on SA not PAYE. (incidentaly there are 3 classes of nic class 1 and class 3 are PAYE for employee and employer respectively, class 2 is a flat rate for Self employed people and also jsa/income support benefit recievers). Complaining about people on benefits or imigrants for that matter is a smoke screen relative to this argument. Commenting on leftie propaganda is at wost contemptable and at best naieve (leftie propaganda as opposed to rightie propaganda? start a new thread on this if you like) I have to agree with wishy, for the most part. Take these as hypothetical figures but targeting 1000 people for a £10 dodge is far less efficient than targetting 10 people for a £1000 dodge. I would then argue that I dont care that without the dodge small business men would go out of business, that's capitalism, if you dont like it aggitate for a more left wing interpretation of how to run an ecconomy. A £10 pound dodge?? When have you ever seen anyone turn up for less than a £50 bill. Most want a min of a couple of hundred and thats £40 vat and a lot of 40's add up. I know at least a dozen who regularly pull in £5000 cash in hand a year. It all adds up and good on them for fiddling the system but will laugh too if they get caught as its still theft. what part of hypothetical dont you understand? I live in the real world with a real job and pay real taxes not hypothetical ones. The thread is about real taxes not cloud cuckoo ones! well thats as good an excuse for not having read or missunderstanding my thread as any other i suppose. My point was that it is far mor efficient (ie you get the best results for the least work) changing the rules to stop the tax dodges of a billionaire dodging a million in tax than a millionaire dodgin a thousand (be carefull in your response, you will not that the percentiles are exactly the same...) No your point is deception insinuating the cheeky builder is only dodging £10 while the nasty rich guy is dodging billions. You are exaggerating the truth as much as possible to try and get your point across. Its the typical lefty agenda biased, incorrect and decisive. "no...quite the opposite. By using a hypothetical figure i attempt to take politics out of the argument. But in the spirit of your post, typical right wing....stupid.. | |||
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"Well where to wade in here? I have to be honest and say i niether know nor care what the tax take from the top is. They hold most of the assets so it wouldn't suprise me to hear that they pay more, the statistic that counts is percentage of income paid in tax, which however you cut it is far lower for those on self assesment than those on paye, thats why people want to be on SA not PAYE. (incidentaly there are 3 classes of nic class 1 and class 3 are PAYE for employee and employer respectively, class 2 is a flat rate for Self employed people and also jsa/income support benefit recievers). Complaining about people on benefits or imigrants for that matter is a smoke screen relative to this argument. Commenting on leftie propaganda is at wost contemptable and at best naieve (leftie propaganda as opposed to rightie propaganda? start a new thread on this if you like) I have to agree with wishy, for the most part. Take these as hypothetical figures but targeting 1000 people for a £10 dodge is far less efficient than targetting 10 people for a £1000 dodge. I would then argue that I dont care that without the dodge small business men would go out of business, that's capitalism, if you dont like it aggitate for a more left wing interpretation of how to run an ecconomy. A £10 pound dodge?? When have you ever seen anyone turn up for less than a £50 bill. Most want a min of a couple of hundred and thats £40 vat and a lot of 40's add up. I know at least a dozen who regularly pull in £5000 cash in hand a year. It all adds up and good on them for fiddling the system but will laugh too if they get caught as its still theft. what part of hypothetical dont you understand? I live in the real world with a real job and pay real taxes not hypothetical ones. The thread is about real taxes not cloud cuckoo ones! well thats as good an excuse for not having read or missunderstanding my thread as any other i suppose. My point was that it is far mor efficient (ie you get the best results for the least work) changing the rules to stop the tax dodges of a billionaire dodging a million in tax than a millionaire dodgin a thousand (be carefull in your response, you will not that the percentiles are exactly the same...)" don't you really think everyone thieving of the state should be perused? Hell we could go back to the 70s and tax the right out of the country! Tax them ALL rich and poor! | |||
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"Well where to wade in here? I have to be honest and say i niether know nor care what the tax take from the top is. They hold most of the assets so it wouldn't suprise me to hear that they pay more, the statistic that counts is percentage of income paid in tax, which however you cut it is far lower for those on self assesment than those on paye, thats why people want to be on SA not PAYE. (incidentaly there are 3 classes of nic class 1 and class 3 are PAYE for employee and employer respectively, class 2 is a flat rate for Self employed people and also jsa/income support benefit recievers). Complaining about people on benefits or imigrants for that matter is a smoke screen relative to this argument. Commenting on leftie propaganda is at wost contemptable and at best naieve (leftie propaganda as opposed to rightie propaganda? start a new thread on this if you like) I have to agree with wishy, for the most part. Take these as hypothetical figures but targeting 1000 people for a £10 dodge is far less efficient than targetting 10 people for a £1000 dodge. I would then argue that I dont care that without the dodge small business men would go out of business, that's capitalism, if you dont like it aggitate for a more left wing interpretation of how to run an ecconomy. A £10 pound dodge?? When have you ever seen anyone turn up for less than a £50 bill. Most want a min of a couple of hundred and thats £40 vat and a lot of 40's add up. I know at least a dozen who regularly pull in £5000 cash in hand a year. It all adds up and good on them for fiddling the system but will laugh too if they get caught as its still theft. what part of hypothetical dont you understand? I live in the real world with a real job and pay real taxes not hypothetical ones. The thread is about real taxes not cloud cuckoo ones! well thats as good an excuse for not having read or missunderstanding my thread as any other i suppose. My point was that it is far mor efficient (ie you get the best results for the least work) changing the rules to stop the tax dodges of a billionaire dodging a million in tax than a millionaire dodgin a thousand (be carefull in your response, you will not that the percentiles are exactly the same...) No your point is deception insinuating the cheeky builder is only dodging £10 while the nasty rich guy is dodging billions. You are exaggerating the truth as much as possible to try and get your point across. Its the typical lefty agenda biased, incorrect and decisive. no...quite the opposite. By using a hypothetical figure i attempt to take politics out of the argument. But in the spirit of your post, typical right wing....stupid.."No need for insults I am not right wing but insinuating I am stupid is offensive. | |||
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"Hello Sophie, "here is no need for benefit cuts if the very wealthiest paid their fair share of tax. Some of them pay nothing/next to nothing." What is a fair share? How do the wealthy get wealthy, there's very little inherited wealth these days. Some people earn vast amounts but for a short period, e.g. sportsmen\women but pay huge tax, which will be more than if it was averaged out over their life time. All the emphasis seems to be about getting the maximum amount of tax income but lip service to cutting the billions the government just squanders in many various ways. Alec kenny your qoute that the top 5% pay 90% of tax is incorrect its actually the top 10% pay about 50%" well that is not what i have seen in the stastistics... i dont mean they pay 90% tax on their income, i mean collectively they pay nearly 90% of the total revenue. in fact the top 1% pay nearly 30% alone quote from official stats feb 2012 "The highest-earning 1 per cent of Britons pay almost 30 per cent of all income taxes, according to research. The 308,000 on the 50p top rate – who earn more than £150,000 – pay £47billion a year to the Treasury" "The lower-earning 50 per cent pay £17bn – less than the total housing benefit bill" | |||
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" in fact the top 1% pay nearly 30% alone quote from official stats feb 2012 "The highest-earning 1 per cent of Britons pay almost 30 per cent of all income taxes, according to research. The 308,000 on the 50p top rate – who earn more than £150,000 – pay £47billion a year to the Treasury" "The lower-earning 50 per cent pay £17bn – less than the total housing benefit bill" " Makes interesting reading Kenny | |||
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"No need for insults I am not right wing but insinuating I am stupid is offensive. "well you didnt read my post, or if you did you didnt understand it. You then proceded to say i was lieing and to call me a 'leftie'. Usualy only right wingers use that term, liberals mostly being too polite. My suggestion to you is to read posts more carefully and if you dont want to be insulted then dont use insulting language yourself..... | |||
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" in fact the top 1% pay nearly 30% alone quote from official stats feb 2012 "The highest-earning 1 per cent of Britons pay almost 30 per cent of all income taxes, according to research. The 308,000 on the 50p top rate – who earn more than £150,000 – pay £47billion a year to the Treasury" "The lower-earning 50 per cent pay £17bn – less than the total housing benefit bill" Makes interesting reading Kenny "it is isnt it. dont forget the highest earners arent just paying income tax in the traditional sense, but they pay other taxes such as CGT and corporation tax. i am an individual director of 2 companies. i earn a salary of £10k to offest my personal allowances and some PAYE and NI. however my companies collectively paid just under £250k in corporation tax last year. i have a totally straight accountant and there are no cash deals allowed in any of my businesses. It is theft from the treasury whichever way you dress it up. if we were in times like the 70s were, with supertaxes on higher earners, i would have no heistation but to take my business abroad costing 95 jobs and further cost to the county by loss of tax and NI from my employees and any benefits they would have to be paid for being unemployed. while i see georges point about chasing the big debts first, you still have to tackle the small ones. 1 bee sting wont kill you but thousands of them can and that is what we have. thousands of little cash deal like little bee stings which if not treated will bring the country down. | |||
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" "1 bee sting wont kill you but thousands of them can and that is what we have. thousands of little cash deal like little bee stings which if not treated will bring the country down." Trouble is the tax evasion from the very wealthy few is unlike a bee sting, it's like getting our country hit with several nuclear bombs - it's devastated us. The smoke and mirror effect seemingly working well atm, as the plumber's smoke screen has directed attention away from the £billions avoided by the large players, and the fact that government ministers etc are not publishing detailed financial accounts. This is not to say that other businesses, including self employed and small businesses shouldn't be paying taxes. Most of us want this too. We just need to stop all loop holes, and get rid of businesses that laugh at our tax system. Remember 'Amazon: £7bn sales, no UK corporation tax' etc. | |||
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"No need for insults I am not right wing but insinuating I am stupid is offensive. well you didnt read my post, or if you did you didnt understand it. You then proceded to say i was lieing and to call me a 'leftie'. Usualy only right wingers use that term, liberals mostly being too polite.
My suggestion to you is to read posts more carefully and if you dont want to be insulted then dont use insulting language yourself....."My suggestion is to mind your language and read the forum rules! | |||
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"No need for insults I am not right wing but insinuating I am stupid is offensive. well you didnt read my post, or if you did you didnt understand it. You then proceded to say i was lieing and to call me a 'leftie'. Usualy only right wingers use that term, liberals mostly being too polite.
My suggestion to you is to read posts more carefully and if you dont want to be insulted then dont use insulting language yourself.....
My suggestion is to mind your language and read the forum rules! "again, i reply in kind. Its hypocritical to insult someone and then to complain about a return of service.... | |||
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" in fact the top 1% pay nearly 30% alone quote from official stats feb 2012 "The highest-earning 1 per cent of Britons pay almost 30 per cent of all income taxes, according to research. The 308,000 on the 50p top rate – who earn more than £150,000 – pay £47billion a year to the Treasury" "The lower-earning 50 per cent pay £17bn – less than the total housing benefit bill" Makes interesting reading Kenny
it is isnt it.
dont forget the highest earners arent just paying income tax in the traditional sense, but they pay other taxes such as CGT and corporation tax.
i am an individual director of 2 companies. i earn a salary of £10k to offest my personal allowances and some PAYE and NI.
however my companies collectively paid just under £250k in corporation tax last year.
i have a totally straight accountant and there are no cash deals allowed in any of my businesses. It is theft from the treasury whichever way you dress it up.
if we were in times like the 70s were, with supertaxes on higher earners, i would have no heistation but to take my business abroad costing 95 jobs and further cost to the county by loss of tax and NI from my employees and any benefits they would have to be paid for being unemployed.
while i see georges point about chasing the big debts first, you still have to tackle the small ones.
1 bee sting wont kill you but thousands of them can and that is what we have. thousands of little cash deal like little bee stings which if not treated will bring the country down."Unfortunately you will always get people who resent people earning decent money. Tax evasion starts small and can build up. Anyone who thinks you can tackle both sorts in the same way with the same people is misguided as it is tackled in a different manner. you can't leave the small thieves you need to tackle all of them with specialised teams which target the different methods of evasion. | |||
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"No need for insults I am not right wing but insinuating I am stupid is offensive. well you didnt read my post, or if you did you didnt understand it. You then proceded to say i was lieing and to call me a 'leftie'. Usualy only right wingers use that term, liberals mostly being too polite.
My suggestion to you is to read posts more carefully and if you dont want to be insulted then dont use insulting language yourself.....
My suggestion is to mind your language and read the forum rules! again, i reply in kind. Its hypocritical to insult someone and then to complain about a return of service...."George you were out of order with what you said. You don't call someone stupid its offensive and against the forum rules. | |||
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" "1 bee sting wont kill you but thousands of them can and that is what we have. thousands of little cash deal like little bee stings which if not treated will bring the country down. Trouble is the tax evasion from the very wealthy few is unlike a bee sting, it's like getting our country hit with several nuclear bombs - it's devastated us. The smoke and mirror effect seemingly working well atm, as the plumber's smoke screen has directed attention away from the £billions avoided by the large players, and the fact that government ministers etc are not publishing detailed financial accounts. This is not to say that other businesses, including self employed and small businesses shouldn't be paying taxes. Most of us want this too. We just need to stop all loop holes, and get rid of businesses that laugh at our tax system. Remember 'Amazon: £7bn sales, no UK corporation tax' etc." to suggest that the govt are doing nothing to tackle the big avoiders is just untrue. its easy to jump up and down and moan when they have a go at the little man but they spend millions collecting unpaid taxes so dont think they dont go after them. i know i have been on the butt end of a tax inspection which lasted 5 months, which incidently turned up nothing as i run a tight ship. they put people in jail for the big ones you know, 3 guys from near to me recently sent down for 7 years and had ll their assets frozen for VAT fraud. rightly so too but please dont try to make out that the rich get away with things when they dont. if you want to see another brain drain with all the talent and higher earners pissing off to foreign parts again, like the 70s, then tax them to the hilt. its a short term gain followed by a long term loss and totally false economy. the fact that some people and companies use legal schemes to reduce their tax bill doesnt mean they dont contribute the the economy. i dont know the full details of the Amazon tax situation but they still brought business to the country and employed people and paid VAT, and the like, so i doubt they got off scott free. The big companies and the big earners still pay far in excess of what the normal working man pays. | |||
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"Ok if you can't debate without insulting / offending people, maybe it is best you stay off these type of threads. Can we also stop turning threads into "foreigner" threads." Not me I like foreigners especially the Swedish ones with blonde pigtails. | |||
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" "to suggest that the govt are doing nothing to tackle the big avoiders is just untrue" " I am not suggesting, stating or implying that, whatever your inference. ""the fact that some people and companies use legal schemes to reduce their tax bill doesnt mean they dont contribute the the economy." " They actually need to contribute a fair tax payment too, which many don't. Whilst many avoidance measures have been 'legal', they likely shouldn't have been allowed as loop holes. ""i dont know the full details of the Amazon tax situation but they still brought business to the country and employed people and paid VAT, and the like, so i doubt they got off scott free"" I doubt anyone knows the extent of their calculated methodology for tax avoidance, but they've certainly registered in areas where they minimise their payments, and yet they earn substantial income from the UK, but don't return a fair proportion back to us overall, and there's no argument that they have some benefit to us. In the 9 years from 2003 to 2011 the UK-registered company has reported a cumulative net tax bill of just £3m, yet last year paid not a penny in Corporation Tax, despite income of £7,000,000,000. Amazon are not the main thrust of my concern. This is leveled at overall tax payments being too low, and how this has resulted in services etc being cut. Corporations like Amazon are part of the problem. The so called brain drain is less of an issue, where unscrupulous individuals, of highly questionable value, are allowed to leave the country, a refreshing cleansing for the rest of us. At the moment we have lots of talent that's available, largely underpaid and we also have inflated rents etc. If we let the scum avoiders go, this will likely create a fairer society, and their inflated net worth will stop helping to inflate rents/house prices etc. | |||
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" "to suggest that the govt are doing nothing to tackle the big avoiders is just untrue" I am not suggesting, stating or implying that, whatever your inference. "the fact that some people and companies use legal schemes to reduce their tax bill doesnt mean they dont contribute the the economy." They actually need to contribute a fair tax payment too, which many don't. Whilst many avoidance measures have been 'legal', they likely shouldn't have been allowed as loop holes. "i dont know the full details of the Amazon tax situation but they still brought business to the country and employed people and paid VAT, and the like, so i doubt they got off scott free" I doubt anyone knows the extent of their calculated methodology for tax avoidance, but they've certainly registered in areas where they minimise their payments, and yet they earn substantial income from the UK, but don't return a fair proportion back to us overall, and there's no argument that they have some benefit to us. In the 9 years from 2003 to 2011 the UK-registered company has reported a cumulative net tax bill of just £3m, yet last year paid not a penny in Corporation Tax, despite income of £7,000,000,000. Amazon are not the main thrust of my concern. This is leveled at overall tax payments being too low, and how this has resulted in services etc being cut. Corporations like Amazon are part of the problem. The so called brain drain is less of an issue, where unscrupulous individuals, of highly questionable value, are allowed to leave the country, a refreshing cleansing for the rest of us. At the moment we have lots of talent that's available, largely underpaid and we also have inflated rents etc. If we let the scum avoiders go, this will likely create a fairer society, and their inflated net worth will stop helping to inflate rents/house prices etc. " now i had a little sympathy with our argument until you started with phrases like "scum avoiders" and "The so called brain drain is less of an issue, where unscrupulous individuals, of highly questionable value" That just smacks of jealousy. Where do you get off on calling highly talented people, entrepanuers, scientists, inventors and people with highly successful companies 'unscrupulous and of questionable value' so you think overall tax is too low?? ok, i pay a huge amount in tax through my companies and i would definitely consider taking my business elsewhere if i was taxed and more, and i am neither unscrupulous or of questionable value. how would that sit with your idealogy if 95 people were made redundant because i decied to take my business abroad?? typical left wing policies... tax the rich give to the poor the moan when they piss off and take their money somewhere else. Robin Hodd was just a story you know. there was no happy ending.. | |||
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"Hello Sophie, "here is no need for benefit cuts if the very wealthiest paid their fair share of tax. Some of them pay nothing/next to nothing." What is a fair share? How do the wealthy get wealthy, there's very little inherited wealth these days. Some people earn vast amounts but for a short period, e.g. sportsmen\women but pay huge tax, which will be more than if it was averaged out over their life time. All the emphasis seems to be about getting the maximum amount of tax income but lip service to cutting the billions the government just squanders in many various ways. Alec kenny your qoute that the top 5% pay 90% of tax is incorrect its actually the top 10% pay about 50% well that is not what i have seen in the stastistics... i dont mean they pay 90% tax on their income, i mean collectively they pay nearly 90% of the total revenue. in fact the top 1% pay nearly 30% alone quote from official stats feb 2012 "The highest-earning 1 per cent of Britons pay almost 30 per cent of all income taxes, according to research. The 308,000 on the 50p top rate – who earn more than £150,000 – pay £47billion a year to the Treasury" "The lower-earning 50 per cent pay £17bn – less than the total housing benefit bill" " I knew what you meant but the same article also quotes the top 10% as paying 34% which you havent mentioned. Some people took me to task over my comments but no one has shown me any reputable source yet that shows the top 5% pay 90% of the total tax revenue | |||
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"Not read all posts so not sure if this has been said Tax Avoidance is legal Tax Evasion is illlegal Tax Avoidance is were you put your tax affairs in order, Tax evasion is were you hide earned or none earned income I am not a rich man but old enough to remember the 70s and 80s, we had a tax rate think it was 82% to hammer the rich, the Governemnt didnt earn much off it, when it was reduced to 40% lots of tax income came in Many people who know more than others state when a country has a low tax rate for everyone, it generates more tax revenue, as the rich wil use that country, these said people if we had a say 24% tax for everyone there would be no need to hide your money in other countries, pay people lots of money to use avoidance schemes, but this will never happen as its not a vote winner with the general public who love to see the rich get taxed to death, was it the rich fault there family worked hard maybe generations gone past, and passed their wealth down to their kids and their kids and so on These same people say to help the poor you must help the rich as its the rich who set up companies and spread their wealth, but once again that is not a vote winner I myself will be working a long time as am not rich, but dont hate the rich, and have seen how much these companies everyone wants to see taxed to death, pay in tax one shape or another" If tax went above 50% I wouldn't come back to England it wouldn't be worth it. Avoidance well you do what you have to legally. I work abroad for weeks sometimes months and its a liberty Twatty Cammeron and his cronies want to take so much when it wasn't earned in the UK. I have no probs in deferring moneys to be legally banked else wear. I resent paying 20k when some dossers here wont get off their arses and expect for me to pay them to arse sit. If its legal then do it, if its not then dont. | |||
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"It's not tax avoidance to pay in cash - it's someone who doesn't pay their tax that is tax avoidance, and they personally have the responsibility for doing that. The amount of tax not paid by plumbers etc is peanuts compared to the very wealthy who avoid ££billions in tax every year, some of our government ministers and prime minister are very well versed with this. This is just a smoke and mirrors story thrown out by the government and media, owned by the 1%, who want the public to take their attention from the real problems, the real tax avoiders. There are millionaire/billionaire tax avoiders, as well as huge corporations we give our money to who use any scam they can to not pay tax. They all want to make use of public facilities, our roads, our infrastructure etc, but not pay their fair share, whilst taking the hard working tax payer's cash when we buy etc from them. The real scams of tax avoidance have been distracted from, ever since the Jimmy Carr story. The plumbers deal is just the latest. There is no need for benefit cuts if the very wealthiest paid their fair share of tax. Some of them pay nothing/next to nothing. Don't be fooled and misled by propaganda. The Nazi's were great at it, and it seems governments today use all known manipulations to get the people of this country at each other's throats, rather than against people like themselves. Remember, many government ministers etc are millionaires. They haven't been forthcoming with their financial details, including tax paid... that's just one aspect of where attention should be focused. You read far too much leftie propaganda. The rich pay legally what they have to, probably ten times what you do and more never mind 20% vat on all the luxury goods they buy. And to think there is no need for benefit cuts just take more from those who have it and give it to lazy arsed dossers claiming benefits says a lot. Propaganda by the govt? What a load of testicles! Is it wrong for the government to point out people should contribute to society? Well if they didn't all the lazy leftie spongers would have to get out of bed and work. "So all spongers are lefties? thats a new one. The rich have loads of ways to avoid paying their fair share buying non existant wine and gold just two of the scams they have set up for themselves but if you speak against something like that you are a "Leftie" that smacks of the Macarthy witch hunts, waken up man people can have views against legal wrongdoing without being Lefties. | |||
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"Why not just use Jimmy Carr's accountant, if its not illegal and its saving yourself hard earned money then do it. This country is taxed too heavily as it is, maybe the tax laws should be reviewed then people wouldn't dodge tax. The COUNTRY is not taxed too heavily. The rich should be far more than they are , the wages of the poor should be increased by government regulation and the price of property and rents should also be decreased by government regulation. So people dont make a country, a country? Read your reply. " And I in turn suggest you do some reading about tax in other countries but go to sources other than the British press . | |||
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"Not read all posts so not sure if this has been said Tax Avoidance is legal Tax Evasion is illlegal Tax Avoidance is were you put your tax affairs in order, Tax evasion is were you hide earned or none earned income I am not a rich man but old enough to remember the 70s and 80s, we had a tax rate think it was 82% to hammer the rich, the Governemnt didnt earn much off it, when it was reduced to 40% lots of tax income came in Many people who know more than others state when a country has a low tax rate for everyone, it generates more tax revenue, as the rich wil use that country, these said people if we had a say 24% tax for everyone there would be no need to hide your money in other countries, pay people lots of money to use avoidance schemes, but this will never happen as its not a vote winner with the general public who love to see the rich get taxed to death, was it the rich fault there family worked hard maybe generations gone past, and passed their wealth down to their kids and their kids and so on These same people say to help the poor you must help the rich as its the rich who set up companies and spread their wealth, but once again that is not a vote winner I myself will be working a long time as am not rich, but dont hate the rich, and have seen how much these companies everyone wants to see taxed to death, pay in tax one shape or another" The same old trite arguments by people who are clearly not informed enough to offer an informed view. In the first place, if it is to be argued that the rich will leave the country if their taxes are raised, then an explanation will have to be given as to why it is that the rich in places like Germany and Sweden don't leave those countries (yes a few might but most of them don't). With regard to your statement that you are old enough to remember the taxes in the seventies you obviously don't have a very clear memory because actually the highest rate was 90% (curiously the same rate as it was in America several decades before). And even that didn't impel the majority of rich people to leave the country. The fact of the matter is that the UK has one of the greatest gaps between rich and poor in the entire developed world (and I get my information from reputable, reliable sources such as the UN, not from newspapers or programmes on the idiots lantern). Property prices are the second highest in Europe (investigate property prices in Sweden and France), and rents are among the highest in the EU. I accept that capitalism is necessary. But to me and and increasing number of people i believe it should be regulated and the wealth distributed more fairly. And to do this we must start taxing the rich more.It does not have to be 90% but it could at least be 50%. If some of them leave because of this (and most won't) so be it. It's called fair play. | |||
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"Not read all posts so not sure if this has been said Tax Avoidance is legal Tax Evasion is illlegal Tax Avoidance is were you put your tax affairs in order, Tax evasion is were you hide earned or none earned income I am not a rich man but old enough to remember the 70s and 80s, we had a tax rate think it was 82% to hammer the rich, the Governemnt didnt earn much off it, when it was reduced to 40% lots of tax income came in Many people who know more than others state when a country has a low tax rate for everyone, it generates more tax revenue, as the rich wil use that country, these said people if we had a say 24% tax for everyone there would be no need to hide your money in other countries, pay people lots of money to use avoidance schemes, but this will never happen as its not a vote winner with the general public who love to see the rich get taxed to death, was it the rich fault there family worked hard maybe generations gone past, and passed their wealth down to their kids and their kids and so on These same people say to help the poor you must help the rich as its the rich who set up companies and spread their wealth, but once again that is not a vote winner I myself will be working a long time as am not rich, but dont hate the rich, and have seen how much these companies everyone wants to see taxed to death, pay in tax one shape or another The same old trite arguments by people who are clearly not informed enough to offer an informed view. In the first place, if it is to be argued that the rich will leave the country if their taxes are raised, then an explanation will have to be given as to why it is that the rich in places like Germany and Sweden don't leave those countries (yes a few might but most of them don't). With regard to your statement that you are old enough to remember the taxes in the seventies you obviously don't have a very clear memory because actually the highest rate was 90% (curiously the same rate as it was in America several decades before). And even that didn't impel the majority of rich people to leave the country. The fact of the matter is that the UK has one of the greatest gaps between rich and poor in the entire developed world (and I get my information from reputable, reliable sources such as the UN, not from newspapers or programmes on the idiots lantern). Property prices are the second highest in Europe (investigate property prices in Sweden and France), and rents are among the highest in the EU. I accept that capitalism is necessary. But to me and and increasing number of people i believe it should be regulated and the wealth distributed more fairly. And to do this we must start taxing the rich more.It does not have to be 90% but it could at least be 50%. If some of them leave because of this (and most won't) so be it. It's called fair play. " You don't earn a lot do ya! When you pay 50% I will be happy to. Also 90% is wrong go google again, then goodle the brain drain in the 1970s when tax4es sky rocketed. The badge for ill informed is clearly on your lapel  | |||
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" The same old trite arguments by people who are clearly not informed enough to offer an informed view. In the first place, if it is to be argued that the rich will leave the country if their taxes are raised, then an explanation will have to be given as to why it is that the rich in places like Germany and Sweden don't leave those countries (yes a few might but most of them don't). With regard to your statement that you are old enough to remember the taxes in the seventies you obviously don't have a very clear memory because actually the highest rate was 90% (curiously the same rate as it was in America several decades before). And even that didn't impel the majority of rich people to leave the country. The fact of the matter is that the UK has one of the greatest gaps between rich and poor in the entire developed world (and I get my information from reputable, reliable sources such as the UN, not from newspapers or programmes on the idiots lantern). Property prices are the second highest in Europe (investigate property prices in Sweden and France), and rents are among the highest in the EU. I accept that capitalism is necessary. But to me and and increasing number of people i believe it should be regulated and the wealth distributed more fairly. And to do this we must start taxing the rich more.It does not have to be 90% but it could at least be 50%. If some of them leave because of this (and most won't) so be it. It's called fair play. Thanks for your comment, I did state wasnt sure about the Tax rate in 70s/80s, thought it was 82% havent googled it but do remember the rich and educated leaving the country, the NHS was in trouble due to Doctors and Nurses leaving due to tax situation, was only the incoming of Doctors and Nurses from other countries that saved it When countries reduce their top Tax rate, which has been done in past, its a fact in that country has generated more income with a lower top Tax rate, than a higher top Tax rate, as i said before there would be no need for the rich to employ, and pay people, to help them with Tax avoidance schemes Have been in Financial sector for over 20years, seen what companies pay in Tax, and many forms of Tax that they have to pay, but will step aside as you feel I am informed and dont know what am talking about" So nurses were in the supertax bracket in the 70s / 80s did you make that up yourself or were you just reading one of the fairytales in the great British press? If any doctors were in that class I then would be very surprised tax the rich at 50% (as after all if anyone earns over 36000 they are taxed at 40% and dont realy have enough dough to tax dodge so they can pay zero) And if as is always quoted on here if someone gives an opinion "If they dont like it then get to fuck and live somewhere else" | |||
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"sorry did somebody mention swinging "Is that cash in hand too? | |||
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"sorry did somebody mention swinging "the heading in this forum is. The lounge is for general chat and discussion. I like the diverse subjects in the forums and as for swinging we would rather do it than talk about it | |||
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"For the benefit of bn46 I felt better off in the 70's than I do now and by comparison had more cash in my pocket. " But we had a lot less of everything then and cash was the main way we did everything. Wages came in a little brown paypacket with notes and coins in it. Not everyone assumed they had to buy their own home. And I remember someone close to the family fiddling his VAT because he did so much cash in hand and ending up fleeing the country when the tax man decided to audit him. He's never returned here to live. | |||
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"sorry did somebody mention swinging
the heading in this forum is.
The lounge is for general chat and discussion.
I like the diverse subjects in the forums and as for swinging we would rather do it than talk about it"sense of humour comes under the lounge heading,WE believe | |||
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