FabSwingers.com forum: No-kill, lab-grown meat

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

" Cultured meat, produced in bioreactors without the slaughter of an animal, has been approved for sale by a regulatory authority for the first time. The development has been hailed as a landmark moment across the meat industry."

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/02/no-kill-lab-grown-meat-to-go-on-sale-for-first-time

This is the future, I think. Tucking into chicken, beef etc, without any harm to animals. Gotta be a good thing, right? Does this mean veggie/vegans will be eating 'meat' in the future?

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By *innie The MinxWoman
over a year ago

Under the Duvet

It's an interesting one.

I like the taste of meat but I can't justify the cruelty behind the way its produced.

Would I try this?

Unsure.

Got to be a step in the right direction though.

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By *ucidityWoman
over a year ago

Nottingham

[Removed by poster at 02/12/20 11:44:17]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This could also mean the end of farming which would lead to a mass slaughter of livestock as they would no longer financially able to keep the animals if this realy

did take off

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By *ucidityWoman
over a year ago

Nottingham

"" Cultured meat, produced in bioreactors without the slaughter of an animal, has been approved for sale by a regulatory authority for the first time. The development has been hailed as a landmark moment across the meat industry."

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/02/no-kill-lab-grown-meat-to-go-on-sale-for-first-time

This is the future, I think. Tucking into chicken, beef etc, without any harm to animals. Gotta be a good thing, right? Does this mean veggie/vegans will be eating 'meat' in the future?"

I fully support lab meat, there’s no slaughter of animals and, I’d imagine, far less of an environmental impact.

As a vegan though, personally, it’s still a no from me. It still shows that some animals are inherently viewed as commodities and are there for our benefit. Veganism for me has been the way to challenge that notion.

However, selfishly, I feel much better physically since the removal of animal products from my diet.

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By *rumpyMcFuckNuggetMan
over a year ago

Den of Iniquity

If it caught on I'd be out of a job

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No thanks. Not keen on the idea of Frankenstein meat.

I’d rather just eat fruit and veggies. I still have dairy and try to buy organic or ethically produced items. I’d like to see improvements in the dairy industry.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's definitely not for me.

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By *he AmbassadorMan
over a year ago

IRLANDA. / Prague. / Cil Dara

Well it's Deffo a better option than the Yank nuclear Chicken that is heading your guys way very soon.

And most Deffo a better option than Your MCD beef,

So win win really.

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By *innie The MinxWoman
over a year ago

Under the Duvet

"Well it's Deffo a better option than the Yank nuclear Chicken that is heading your guys way very soon.

And most Deffo a better option than Your MCD beef,

So win win really. "

No one mentions Mad Cow these days...remember when it was all over the news...everyone was predicted to be infected and mooing....mmmn now what does that remind me of...but I digress ...

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

Being a veggie yes for sure love and miss meat! But canf justify eating it x

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By *uke olovingmanMan
over a year ago

Gravesend

It's probably going to be cultured like Quorn...I've no objections to eating that ...there will always be a market for real meat as well

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

"This could also mean the end of farming which would lead to a mass slaughter of livestock as they would no longer financially able to keep the animals if this realy

did take off"

But in long run would b better? I'm sure they would gradually kill them to b consumed x

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By *unmatt888Man
over a year ago

Duns

"This could also mean the end of farming which would lead to a mass slaughter of livestock as they would no longer financially able to keep the animals if this realy

did take off"

It's not like it's going to happen suddenly next Tuesday.

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By *hilloutMan
over a year ago

All over the place! Northwesr, , Southwest

I don't think it's a good idea as that is handing a significant proportion of the food supply to corporations (yes, as only they would have the means for this) and stripping people further of any means of self subsistence / reliance.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"This could also mean the end of farming which would lead to a mass slaughter of livestock as they would no longer financially able to keep the animals if this realy

did take off

But in long run would b better? I'm sure they would gradually kill them to b consumed x"
just a real shame about the lose of industry farms that have been in generations in one family. I think it's wrong and meat grown in a lab just seems like am abomination

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's so difficult to debate this, it brings out vegan extremists.

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

"This could also mean the end of farming which would lead to a mass slaughter of livestock as they would no longer financially able to keep the animals if this realy

did take off

But in long run would b better? I'm sure they would gradually kill them to b consumed x just a real shame about the lose of industry farms that have been in generations in one family. I think it's wrong and meat grown in a lab just seems like am abomination "

Not for the animals? X

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

"It's so difficult to debate this, it brings out vegan extremists. "

Not at all? I listen and debate with anyone as a veggie I cook meat for others I dont judge we all entitled to our opinions x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No, I prefer to source ethically farmed meat.

I support British farming.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"This could also mean the end of farming which would lead to a mass slaughter of livestock as they would no longer financially able to keep the animals if this realy

did take off

Not for the animals? X"
humans have been killing and eating animals for as long as we have existed we have kanine teeth designed for tearing meat as a species we are omnivores and while I believe there is far to much food waste and some methods of slaughter are very cruel I wont go into which as it could spark a whole different debate I feel that farming and eating livestock is natural

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By *ljamMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

"This could also mean the end of farming which would lead to a mass slaughter of livestock as they would no longer financially able to keep the animals if this realy

did take off"

Because there's not already mass slaughter of livestock?

What do you think farms are? Animal leisure centres?

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

"This could also mean the end of farming which would lead to a mass slaughter of livestock as they would no longer financially able to keep the animals if this realy

did take off

Not for the animals? X humans have been killing and eating animals for as long as we have existed we have kanine teeth designed for tearing meat as a species we are omnivores and while I believe there is far to much food waste and some methods of slaughter are very cruel I wont go into which as it could spark a whole different debate I feel that farming and eating livestock is natural "

Alot of things we dont do anymore were natural I wont go into which as again could spark of a whole different debate x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"This could also mean the end of farming which would lead to a mass slaughter of livestock as they would no longer financially able to keep the animals if this realy

did take off

Alot of things we dont do anymore were natural I wont go into which as again could spark of a whole different debate x"
well this is true

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

"This could also mean the end of farming which would lead to a mass slaughter of livestock as they would no longer financially able to keep the animals if this realy

did take off

Alot of things we dont do anymore were natural I wont go into which as again could spark of a whole different debate x well this is true

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's very interesting... Will have potentially huge positive envionmental impact. .. And then water security /ownership is going to get very interesting.

I heard it is supposed to be better also for health - but not read enough to understand this comment yet. One thing i wonder about is, if it catches on, whether B12 will become an issue for the wider population (animal's are currently injected with it for consumers to absorb, ie fortified source)

I guess it will be more expensive and limited production so no doubt animals will continue to be slaughted for cheap ready made meals /pet foods etc

But i'm watching with great interest..seems a win for the environment... But doesn't personally impact me or my choices

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By *he AmbassadorMan
over a year ago

IRLANDA. / Prague. / Cil Dara

"Well it's Deffo a better option than the Yank nuclear Chicken that is heading your guys way very soon.

And most Deffo a better option than Your MCD beef,

So win win really.

No one mentions Mad Cow these days...remember when it was all over the news...everyone was predicted to be infected and mooing....mmmn now what does that remind me of...but I digress ..."
it should have been brought up recently to show case another example of how No. 10 couldn't deal with a crisis,

They made a real dogs dinner out of MCD and British beef never really recovered on a global market. I still won't touch it, thank god Sainsburys have an Irish beef section,, sainsbury mom's know best,,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"just a real shame about the lose of industry farms that have been in generations in one family. I think it's wrong and meat grown in a lab just seems like am abomination "

Why wouldn't they diversify?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's so difficult to debate this, it brings out vegan extremists.

Not at all? I listen and debate with anyone as a veggie I cook meat for others I dont judge we all entitled to our opinions x

I posted a few arguments and vegans came after my every post (even ones not part of that forum post and reported them) it must have been hardwork finding a single post of mine that broke any rules. I'm against extremists on any side and you shouldn't shut down debate.

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By *ljamMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

"Well it's Deffo a better option than the Yank nuclear Chicken that is heading your guys way very soon.

And most Deffo a better option than Your MCD beef,

So win win really.

No one mentions Mad Cow these days...remember when it was all over the news...everyone was predicted to be infected and mooing....mmmn now what does that remind me of...but I digress ..."

Two cows standing in a field, one says to the other:

"Are you worried about that mad cow disease?"

The other one says:

"Why would it bother me? I'm a sheep."

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

"It's so difficult to debate this, it brings out vegan extremists.

Not at all? I listen and debate with anyone as a veggie I cook meat for others I dont judge we all entitled to our opinions x

Agreed I've had the same on some of my views on other topics , here and other forums but I'm allways open to debate and might not agree on others opinions but respect them at just that we all have them x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ok tentatively.. I believe factory farming is an abomination but people who hunt for food and minimise suffering are morally right. Native indians in America had a symbiotic relationship with nature, they only killed what they needed to to survive.

We have the issue of invasive species which would wipe out a native eco system if not controlled. Think of the red squirrel. Killing shouldn't be for fun, nor should people who eat meat be allowed to not be confronted with the reality of an abattoir.

Reduce meat consumption and get connected to where your food comes from.

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

"Ok tentatively.. I believe factory farming is an abomination but people who hunt for food and minimise suffering are morally right. Native indians in America had a symbiotic relationship with nature, they only killed what they needed to to survive.

Reduce meat consumption and get connected to where your food comes from. "

For sure! The squirrel thing was man introducing them in fact most things are man interfering with things if honest? And maybe this could as some have said b a way forward along side conventional meat? I would give it a try as I said I love taste of meat and miss it not found a veggie burger to my liking! I cook meat for family and till end july was employed as a cook so handled cooked meat for the last god knows how long since 80s been a cook x

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By *_Yeah19Couple
over a year ago

Lincoln

Not read all the responses but if you think no animals were harmed making this then you may want to think again!

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

""As a vegan though, personally, it’s still a no from me. It still shows that some animals are inherently viewed as commodities and are there for our benefit. Veganism for me has been the way to challenge that notion."

Interesting point. Hadn't thought of it this way.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Not read all the responses but if you think no animals were harmed making this then you may want to think again!

TB"

You mean in the development of the product or the future production of it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I find it weirdly disturbing to be honest Meat/flesh just growing awsy all by itself

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By *rscotsdudeMan
over a year ago

angus

I am a farmer and it seems seems artificial meat is inevitable. People demand choice and as farmers we have to deal with it as best we can. I should add i am a beef farmer and i know our system of grass fed beef has a positive impact on the environment unlike beef that is produced in south america.

Humans are by far the worst culprit of any eviromental impact. During lock down farming never stopped but pollution levels plummeted due to no planes, transport ect. Anybody who gives up meat to save the environment but is still happy to jump on a plane is a total hypocrite. You can eat meat every day for the rest of your life and still have less of a carbon impact than a transatlantic return flight.

There has been a few posters who are vegan dues to suffering of animals which everyone has a choice. Some people are vegan simply because they dont like the taste of meat. I, myself would rather eat meat from a know natural sustainable source rather than a lab.

I probably wont be on much till later but if anyone has a question they want answered from a farming side i will do my best. I know threads like this can get heated but there is no right or wrong answers but differing opinions!

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I find it weirdly disturbing to be honest Meat/flesh just growing awsy all by itself

I know, it is a bit freaky.

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By *etcplCouple
over a year ago

Gapping Fanny

There are many predictions on how to deal with the growing population and the effect climate change is having on food production.

Would I prefer to eat lab grown meat or insects?

Neither appeal to me in principle, however I expect if I were fed them without knowing what they are I would enjoy them.

Progress means that certain behaviours and industries will be left behind, however that is how we as a species are able to move on.

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By *uke olovingmanMan
over a year ago

Gravesend

"I am a farmer and it seems seems artificial meat is inevitable. People demand choice and as farmers we have to deal with it as best we can. I should add i am a beef farmer and i know our system of grass fed beef has a positive impact on the environment unlike beef that is produced in south america.

Doesn't food production come down to the bottom line.... how much does it cost per kg of meat to produce animals or lab meat....

The animals require feed ...care with rearing and transport and processing..... agriculture will produce the raw materials for lab meat ...so fertilizer .. monitoring during growth.. harvesting and transport before reaching the factory then processing...so which one is less expensive ..then consider the morality of killing of sentient beings ...the economics of farming will radically change..

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By *nkforthekinkMan
over a year ago

london/fareham/brighton

I just can’t see how lab grown meat will taste the same as a animal that’s grazed on grass for the majority of its life

all abit weird to me! The government is planning on a reforming the farming sector to help low green house emissions produced by animal waste.

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By *uke olovingmanMan
over a year ago

Gravesend

Chicken salt doesn't contain any chicken products ..but it tastes of chicken...and it's vegan

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/02/no-kill-lab-grown-meat-to-go-on-sale-for-first-time

This is the future, I think. Tucking into chicken, beef etc, without any harm to animals. Gotta be a good thing, right? Does this mean veggie/vegans will be eating 'meat' in the future?"

Hell no!

Not a chance

I'll stick to lentils thanks

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By *ust RachelTV/TS
over a year ago

Horsham

What about population control, such as the deer population. A certain number of deer are allowed to be killed, to prevent them causing issues to an area.

The bonus is the meat from them, I am quite partial to a but of venison at times.

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By *elethWoman
over a year ago

Gloucestershire

"I don't think it's a good idea as that is handing a significant proportion of the food supply to corporations (yes, as only they would have the means for this) and stripping people further of any means of self subsistence / reliance."

This with bells on!

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By *ob Carpe DiemMan
over a year ago

Torquay

It's a viable option for supporting an increasing human population, not the only one perhaps but I don't think it should be dismissed, I get that it may cause pause for thought by many but I think it's got potential

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ive just read up on it and it seems like a complicated expensive solution to something that isnt particulary a problem. (Yes the animals being killed, I am a vege myself)

We don't half like to make our life complicated

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By *ob Carpe DiemMan
over a year ago

Torquay

"Ive just read up on it and it seems like a complicated expensive solution to something that isnt particulary a problem. (Yes the animals being killed, I am a vege myself)

We don't half like to make our life complicated

Ah but it is a problem, 60% of mammals on earth are livestock, huge contribution to global warming, man made of course but even so...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ive just read up on it and it seems like a complicated expensive solution to something that isnt particulary a problem. (Yes the animals being killed, I am a vege myself)

We don't half like to make our life complicated

Ah but it is a problem, 60% of mammals on earth are livestock, huge contribution to global warming, man made of course but even so..."

That has been debunked I think. Its the planes/cars doing it. Animals of one kind or another have always roamed the earth and in massive numbers they are not the problem.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not for me thanks. I prefer my food to originate from Mother Nature not a scientist. If there was no meat I’m sure I could still survive without artificial chicken.

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By *ob Carpe DiemMan
over a year ago

Torquay

"Ive just read up on it and it seems like a complicated expensive solution to something that isnt particulary a problem. (Yes the animals being killed, I am a vege myself)

We don't half like to make our life complicated

Ah but it is a problem, 60% of mammals on earth are livestock, huge contribution to global warming, man made of course but even so...

That has been debunked I think. Its the planes/cars doing it. Animals of one kind or another have always roamed the earth and in massive numbers they are not the problem. "

Not on the scale of livestock farming I think, imagine no more deforestation for cattle farming it's a fairly big deal in my mind but early days yet

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ive just read up on it and it seems like a complicated expensive solution to something that isnt particulary a problem. (Yes the animals being killed, I am a vege myself)

We don't half like to make our life complicated

Ah but it is a problem, 60% of mammals on earth are livestock, huge contribution to global warming, man made of course but even so...

That has been debunked I think. Its the planes/cars doing it. Animals of one kind or another have always roamed the earth and in massive numbers they are not the problem.

Not on the scale of livestock farming I think, imagine no more deforestation for cattle farming it's a fairly big deal in my mind but early days yet"

I dont know though when you look at what buffalo herds used to look like before we got hold of them and all the African plains animals then this world can sustain happily a massive amount of livestock/mammals. It is exactly that sustainable aspect of the farming that causes the trouble, the cutting down of the trees to make way for the cattle rather than the cattle. Sustainability is key, keeping things in balance. As ever we are just greedy and want bigger and more of things

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"Well it's Deffo a better option than the Yank nuclear Chicken that is heading your guys way very soon.

And most Deffo a better option than Your MCD beef,

So win win really.

No one mentions Mad Cow these days...remember when it was all over the news...everyone was predicted to be infected and mooing....mmmn now what does that remind me of...but I digress ..."

I see it mentioned every single day. It's on admissions questionnaires in hospitals.

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By *irginieWoman
over a year ago

Near Marlborough

No. I don’t like the idea but I can see a place for it in the world.

V x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We'll need to soon start a global contraception scheme for livestock.

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By *iamondCougarWoman
over a year ago

Norfuck! / Lincolnshire

We are playing with Mother Nature again....

I’m not a big meat eater and mostly white meat but this just doesn’t seem natural to me. Whilst it may be a long term solution to replacing animal meat yet again it’s science meddling

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"We are playing with Mother Nature again....

I’m not a big meat eater and mostly white meat but this just doesn’t seem natural to me. Whilst it may be a long term solution to replacing animal meat yet again it’s science meddling

Pretty much none of the animals we currently eat are "natural". We've created new hybrids of animals to produce more muscle etc. You'll never have seen a Holstein dairy cow mooching round the countryside under non-farmed situations. Since the minute man domesticated animals and crops, we've manipulated them genetically (even when we didn't understand genetics). Most farming practices that have occurred, ever, are not natural.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We are playing with Mother Nature again....

I’m not a big meat eater and mostly white meat but this just doesn’t seem natural to me. Whilst it may be a long term solution to replacing animal meat yet again it’s science meddling

Guess this applies to any advances man makes in any discipline including medicine.

Where do you draw the line?

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"We are playing with Mother Nature again....

I’m not a big meat eater and mostly white meat but this just doesn’t seem natural to me. Whilst it may be a long term solution to replacing animal meat yet again it’s science meddling

Guess this applies to any advances man makes in any discipline including medicine.

Where do you draw the line?

A good question. Many such choices are either made by individuals (e.g "I'll eat organically produced meat but not stuff reared indoors in barns" and other choices get taken out of the choice of the individual (e.g. "the Govt demands by law that food only produced in a certain way can be sold" An example from the past might be when the Govt tried to reduce the incidence of TB by only allowing the sale of pasteurised cow's milk.

Ultimately, it's usually the general consumer who pushes the "norm" towards something else. E.g. up till very recently, it was unusual to find non dairy alternatives in cafés/restaurants, but increased veganism has made it far more commonplace.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"We are playing with Mother Nature again....

I’m not a big meat eater and mostly white meat but this just doesn’t seem natural to me. Whilst it may be a long term solution to replacing animal meat yet again it’s science meddling

Guess this applies to any advances man makes in any discipline including medicine.

Where do you draw the line?

I need to remember to close my bloody brackets

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We are playing with Mother Nature again....

I’m not a big meat eater and mostly white meat but this just doesn’t seem natural to me. Whilst it may be a long term solution to replacing animal meat yet again it’s science meddling

Guess this applies to any advances man makes in any discipline including medicine.

Where do you draw the line?

You're spot on with what pushes the norms.

Should it be the driving factor? I sometimes wonder if we've lost a key principle as the masses drive, often blindly following each other unquestioningly until it's irreversible as no one knows why but just assume it's right. Whether it is right or not.

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By *irtycpl7980Couple
over a year ago

Northumberland

I’ve always queried something with vegetarian’s and vegans with this one .....

So let’s imagine we no longer need to farm animals, I personally think this is worse for animals than eating them and here is the reason.

No one will farm the animals as it would no longer be an industry required so what exactly happens to all of them?? We set them free??? Really???? I seriously doubt that would happen. People freak out if they see a wild fox could you imaging a heard of cows walking through London as there are no longer natural predators. Everyone would be up in arms saying we need to manage the wildlife much like with badgers and Grey squirrels (I still live in an area where red squirrels still exist so they try to push out the greys. So how do you manage these animals?? Cull them ... same end result as eating the animal accept now it really is a senseless death.

So for me I don’t get the thinking ... do I think animals should be allowed to live a natural life cycle ... yes. However it is natural to eat meat, as has been pointed out, and as with my wife (vegetarian) I agree that the animals should not be battery farmed for our consumption and also they should have as good a life as possible whilst they are alive.

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By *unmatt888Man
over a year ago

Duns

"I’ve always queried something with vegetarian’s and vegans with this one .....

So let’s imagine we no longer need to farm animals, I personally think this is worse for animals than eating them and here is the reason.

As per my answer above - this isn't just going to suddenly happen one Monday morning leaving animals completely worthless.

The industry will wind down over time as it gets less profitable and people will simply stop breeding meat animals on a large scale.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

I think it's an interesting and potentially viable alternative.

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

Each to their own.. I like to hunt the meat and fish that I eat.. it's the circle of life.. please don't take away that pleasure...

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By *irtycpl7980Couple
over a year ago

Northumberland

"I’ve always queried something with vegetarian’s and vegans with this one .....

So let’s imagine we no longer need to farm animals, I personally think this is worse for animals than eating them and here is the reason.

As per my answer above - this isn't just going to suddenly happen one Monday morning leaving animals completely worthless.

The industry will wind down over time as it gets less profitable and people will simply stop breeding meat animals on a large scale."

My point is ... even if you are right and it happens over time ... the end pint is still the same in that animals end off worse off than they are now.

That’s just an opinion and maybe completely wrong but ultimately as I say it’s the end point where there are a lot less wildlife because we no longer want them around us and given the lack of natural predators it is us that end up culling them (which again I dont agree with).

So your answer does not answer the moral quandary that I have posed, it just ignores it as it will be ‘another generations problem’ which is why we have so many problems we have now because previous generations ignored the long term

Impacts.

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

I see a world with lab grown meat.. who cares if wild animals exist or survive..

We can probably eat lab grown dodo...

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

"I’ve always queried something with vegetarian’s and vegans with this one .....

So let’s imagine we no longer need to farm animals, I personally think this is worse for animals than eating them and here is the reason.

As per my answer above - this isn't just going to suddenly happen one Monday morning leaving animals completely worthless.

The industry will wind down over time as it gets less profitable and people will simply stop breeding meat animals on a large scale.

My point is ... even if you are right and it happens over time ... the end pint is still the same in that animals end off worse off than they are now.

Impacts."

There is only one moral quandry.. Tasty .. eat..

Not Tasty.. don't eat..

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

Please do not underestimate the hunting instinct of man.

Whether hinting gathering for berries and root vegetables or hunting rabbits and fish.. it's intrinsic to our identity ..

We kill to eat.. we enjoy killing to eat..we celebrate the feast but nothing wasted..we use every part.. that's what sets us apart from savages and animals like foxes..

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By *ljamMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

"Please do not underestimate the hunting instinct of man.

Whether hinting gathering for berries and root vegetables or hunting rabbits and fish.. it's intrinsic to our identity ..

We kill to eat.. we enjoy killing to eat..we celebrate the feast but nothing wasted..we use every part.. that's what sets us apart from savages and animals like foxes..

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"I’ve always queried something with vegetarian’s and vegans with this one .....

So let’s imagine we no longer need to farm animals, I personally think this is worse for animals than eating them and here is the reason.

As per my answer above - this isn't just going to suddenly happen one Monday morning leaving animals completely worthless.

The industry will wind down over time as it gets less profitable and people will simply stop breeding meat animals on a large scale.

My point is ... even if you are right and it happens over time ... the end pint is still the same in that animals end off worse off than they are now.

Impacts."

If we stop breeding them then it isn't an issue, or will be less of an issue.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If they can do meat then surely some form of veg like material is possible. Could be useful when we do eventually explore further in space. The planned mars expedition for example. Just a thought.

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

And what about the pleasure of killing what we eat ?

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By *irtycpl7980Couple
over a year ago

Northumberland

"I’ve always queried something with vegetarian’s and vegans with this one .....

So let’s imagine we no longer need to farm animals, I personally think this is worse for animals than eating them and here is the reason.

As per my answer above - this isn't just going to suddenly happen one Monday morning leaving animals completely worthless.

The industry will wind down over time as it gets less profitable and people will simply stop breeding meat animals on a large scale.

My point is ... even if you are right and it happens over time ... the end pint is still the same in that animals end off worse off than they are now.

Impacts.

If we stop breeding them then it isn't an issue, or will be less of an issue."

But the only way to stop breeding them is to either kill them or to neuter them. Either way the end result is less animals ... kind of the same as poachers wiping out animals in Africa or the rain forests. I am a contradiction as in I love animals but I also love eating them. My overall point is we simply won’t allow them to roam free so we end up killing them. Killing and not eating/using is a shocking waste of life which ends up as senseless killing which I am against. I have been brought up to only kill what I eat and to produce only what I eat with little to no waste.

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By *uriouscouple83Couple
over a year ago

Worcester

[Removed by poster at 02/12/20 21:58:58]

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By *uriouscouple83Couple
over a year ago

Worcester

"And what about the pleasure of killing what we eat ?

Do you take pleasure in killing animals Tom?

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

"I’ve always queried something with vegetarian’s and vegans with this one .....

So let’s imagine we no longer need to farm animals, I personally think this is worse for animals than eating them and here is the reason.

As per my answer above - this isn't just going to suddenly happen one Monday morning leaving animals completely worthless.

The industry will wind down over time as it gets less profitable and people will simply stop breeding meat animals on a large scale.

My point is ... even if you are right and it happens over time ... the end pint is still the same in that animals end off worse off than they are now.

Impacts.

If we stop breeding them then it isn't an issue, or will be less of an issue.

My point expressed better than I could do.. I love killing to eat.. nothing wasted... Fish or Meat.. delicious..

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

"And what about the pleasure of killing what we eat ?

Do you take pleasure in killing animals Tom? "

See above ..

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"I’ve always queried something with vegetarian’s and vegans with this one .....

So let’s imagine we no longer need to farm animals, I personally think this is worse for animals than eating them and here is the reason.

As per my answer above - this isn't just going to suddenly happen one Monday morning leaving animals completely worthless.

The industry will wind down over time as it gets less profitable and people will simply stop breeding meat animals on a large scale.

My point is ... even if you are right and it happens over time ... the end pint is still the same in that animals end off worse off than they are now.

Impacts.

If we stop breeding them then it isn't an issue, or will be less of an issue.

Or keeping them apart?

Or yes, neutering them. I mean we do it with our pets.

The idea that this would result in mass slaughter of animals is absurd.

Meanwhile climate change rumbles on, our meat consumption doesn't help, and another zoonotic jump might also lead to mass animal slaughter *shrug*

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"this isn't just going to suddenly happen one Monday morning leaving animals completely worthless.

The industry will wind down over time as it gets less profitable and people will simply stop breeding meat animals on a large scale."

I don't know anything about farming but your point makes perfect sense to me. I'd imagine that farmers don't breed more meat-animals than they can sell, and so over time the populations would reduce to virtually nothing. I can't really see a day when Hereford cattle will be running amok in the High St. Mind you, there won't be any shops left open there anyway so maybe it would be a good use of the space.

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

"I’ve always queried something with vegetarian’s and vegans with this one .....

So let’s imagine we no longer need to farm animals, I personally think this is worse for animals than eating them and here is the reason.

As per my answer above - this isn't just going to suddenly happen one Monday morning leaving animals completely worthless.

The industry will wind down over time as it gets less profitable and people will simply stop breeding meat animals on a large scale.

My point is ... even if you are right and it happens over time ... the end pint is still the same in that animals end off worse off than they are now.

Impacts.

If we stop breeding them then it isn't an issue, or will be less of an issue.

Or keeping them apart?

Or yes, neutering them. I mean we do it with our pets.

The idea that this would result in mass slaughter of animals is absurd.

Meanwhile climate change rumbles on, our meat consumption doesn't help, and another zoonotic jump might also lead to mass animal slaughter *shrug*"

Eat veg.. grow ever bigger human population.. ever more destruction of the planet.. sensible?

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

I love the thrill of the kill.. it means I can eat rather than starve..

But to some who buy their chickens in supermarkets oven ready.. no guilt there then..

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I love the thrill of the kill.. it means I can eat rather than starve..

But to some who buy their chickens in supermarkets oven ready.. no guilt there then.. "

You hunt chickens?

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By *uriouscouple83Couple
over a year ago

Worcester

"And what about the pleasure of killing what we eat ?

Do you take pleasure in killing animals Tom?

See above .. "

I think you need to expand, it’s one thing to hunt to put food on the table and the feeling of satisfaction that brings. It another thing entirely to enjoy watching the life drain from another living being.

Don’t get me wrong, Mr is a farmer, we have both hunted, we have dispatched our fair share of turkeys, chicken, geese etc. We have had to put animals out of their suffering.

One thing I would never say that either of us have experienced however is enjoyment at the act of taking a life.

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

"I love the thrill of the kill.. it means I can eat rather than starve..

But to some who buy their chickens in supermarkets oven ready.. no guilt there then..

You hunt chickens?"

Fish, shellfish, rabbit mostly

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

"And what about the pleasure of killing what we eat ?

Do you take pleasure in killing animals Tom?

See above ..

Don’t get me wrong, Mr is a farmer, we have both hunted, we have dispatched our fair share of turkeys, chicken, geese etc. We have had to put animals out of their suffering.

One thing I would never say that either of us have experienced however is enjoyment at the act of taking a life. "

Then you have never been hungry..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I’ve always queried something with vegetarian’s and vegans with this one .....

So let’s imagine we no longer need to farm animals, I personally think this is worse for animals than eating them and here is the reason.

As per my answer above - this isn't just going to suddenly happen one Monday morning leaving animals completely worthless.

The industry will wind down over time as it gets less profitable and people will simply stop breeding meat animals on a large scale.

My point is ... even if you are right and it happens over time ... the end pint is still the same in that animals end off worse off than they are now.

Impacts.

If we stop breeding them then it isn't an issue, or will be less of an issue.

In this scenario I imagine you would need to choose a cut off date and send every animal to slaughter for the food chain that didnt have anywhere to live out its life in a field (pretty much most of them then no farmer could afford to keep them as pets) And theñ nothing more would/could be bred after that negating the problem. It would certainly mean less animals to look at, but they were never there to look pretty but as a food source anyway.

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By *uriouscouple83Couple
over a year ago

Worcester

"And what about the pleasure of killing what we eat ?

Do you take pleasure in killing animals Tom?

See above ..

Don’t get me wrong, Mr is a farmer, we have both hunted, we have dispatched our fair share of turkeys, chicken, geese etc. We have had to put animals out of their suffering.

One thing I would never say that either of us have experienced however is enjoyment at the act of taking a life.

Then you have never been hungry.."

You haven’t answered the question Tom.

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

"And what about the pleasure of killing what we eat ?

Do you take pleasure in killing animals Tom?

See above ..

Don’t get me wrong, Mr is a farmer, we have both hunted, we have dispatched our fair share of turkeys, chicken, geese etc. We have had to put animals out of their suffering.

One thing I would never say that either of us have experienced however is enjoyment at the act of taking a life.

Then you have never been hungry..

You haven’t answered the question Tom. "

I have.. you choose not to listen..

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By *uriouscouple83Couple
over a year ago

Worcester

"And what about the pleasure of killing what we eat ?

Do you take pleasure in killing animals Tom?

See above ..

Don’t get me wrong, Mr is a farmer, we have both hunted, we have dispatched our fair share of turkeys, chicken, geese etc. We have had to put animals out of their suffering.

One thing I would never say that either of us have experienced however is enjoyment at the act of taking a life.

Then you have never been hungry..

You haven’t answered the question Tom.

I have.. you choose not to listen.."

You say you enjoy the thrill of the kill but is it the putting food on the table or the actual act of killing which you derive pleasure from?

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

"And what about the pleasure of killing what we eat ?

Do you take pleasure in killing animals Tom?

See above ..

Don’t get me wrong, Mr is a farmer, we have both hunted, we have dispatched our fair share of turkeys, chicken, geese etc. We have had to put animals out of their suffering.

One thing I would never say that either of us have experienced however is enjoyment at the act of taking a life.

Then you have never been hungry..

You haven’t answered the question Tom.

I have.. you choose not to listen..

You say you enjoy the thrill of the kill but is it the putting food on the table or the actual act of killing which you derive pleasure from? "

Let me spell it out for the slower ones.. I fish to eat. I feel a tight line. I am excited. I land a fish. I will eat that fish if it's edible. I will happily dispatch it with a huge grin and happiness because I will eat well..

PS. I do not torture flies

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

"And what about the pleasure of killing what we eat ?

Do you take pleasure in killing animals Tom?

See above ..

Don’t get me wrong, Mr is a farmer, we have both hunted, we have dispatched our fair share of turkeys, chicken, geese etc. We have had to put animals out of their suffering.

One thing I would never say that either of us have experienced however is enjoyment at the act of taking a life.

Then you have never been hungry..

You haven’t answered the question Tom.

I have.. you choose not to listen..

You say you enjoy the thrill of the kill but is it the putting food on the table or the actual act of killing which you derive pleasure from? "

Alternatively I could be a farmer, which I am not. I have animals which must go to market. I love them but hate the thougt of them being killed. I can't do it. Luckily I am not licenced to do it. I must use a slaughterhouse. I feel better. It's not me..

I am in the wrong occupation..

Sell the farm .. or grow crops

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By *rscotsdudeMan
over a year ago

angus

I am a beef farmer and i actually do have a pet cow. She was involved in a traffic accident has a disjointed pelvis and highly unlikely she could give birth without complications so have never tried. She is comfortable and not in pain do she just gets to mull around! After the accident she was on a drip and it took 10days to get her to stand on her feet. It took alot of time and a lot of money but she pulled through but this is because she was the first cow one of my family had. I imagine having her is a bit like owning a horse....alot of hassle and costs a bit! Haha

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

"I am a beef farmer and i actually do have a pet cow. She was involved in a traffic accident has a disjointed pelvis and highly unlikely she could give birth without complications so have never tried. She is comfortable and not in pain do she just gets to mull around! After the accident she was on a drip and it took 10days to get her to stand on her feet. It took alot of time and a lot of money but she pulled through but this is because she was the first cow one of my family had. I imagine having her is a bit like owning a horse....alot of hassle and costs a bit! Haha"

Love that story

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Did she ever get behind the wheel again? Or did it knock her confidence.

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By *rscotsdudeMan
over a year ago

angus

Did she ever get behind the wheel again? Or did it knock her confidence.

She was already on 9 points before the accident so we took the decision not to let her drive after that!

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By *heRazorsEdgeMan
over a year ago

Wales/ All over UK

Did she ever get behind the wheel again? Or did it knock her confidence.

Don’t be silly... was probably in the passenger seat

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By *ockosaurusMan
over a year ago

Warwick

"This could also mean the end of farming which would lead to a mass slaughter of livestock as they would no longer financially able to keep the animals if this realy

did take off

But in long run would b better? I'm sure they would gradually kill them to b consumed x"

Hmm... but even so, what would eventually happen too all the breeds of cow, sheep and pig that have been bred for farming?

Will we let them live in the wild? I doubt people would really want that tbh.

Will we put them in zoos? Will people really want to go to a zoo for class and pigs? Is that profitable / sustainable?

Or will those breeds just be slowly killed off and eventually made extinct?

I honestly have no idea, but hopefully we won't kill off entire breeds of animals just because we can't eat them... but we have done before.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"This could also mean the end of farming which would lead to a mass slaughter of livestock as they would no longer financially able to keep the animals if this realy

did take off

But in long run would b better? I'm sure they would gradually kill them to b consumed x

Hmm... but even so, what would eventually happen too all the breeds of cow, sheep and pig that have been bred for farming?

Will we let them live in the wild? I doubt people would really want that tbh.

Will we put them in zoos? Will people really want to go to a zoo for class and pigs? Is that profitable / sustainable?

Or will those breeds just be slowly killed off and eventually made extinct?

I honestly have no idea, but hopefully we won't kill off entire breeds of animals just because we can't eat them... but we have done before."

Entire breeds of animals have been invented so we can eat them or consume their secretions. Hardly any farm animal would survive truly in the "wild" and without husbandry. We've bred them so that they produce offspring too large for them to easily birth alone and they need help. We've bred them so they can't stand up properly because they're bred to have such heavy muscle mass etc. This doesn't apply to all breeds of farmed animal but still. We selectively bred for exaggerated features that would never occur naturally. The devil's advocate in me asks the question - why not allow such creatures to slowly fade from the earth?

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By *ockosaurusMan
over a year ago

Warwick

"This could also mean the end of farming which would lead to a mass slaughter of livestock as they would no longer financially able to keep the animals if this realy

did take off

But in long run would b better? I'm sure they would gradually kill them to b consumed x

Hmm... but even so, what would eventually happen too all the breeds of cow, sheep and pig that have been bred for farming?

Will we let them live in the wild? I doubt people would really want that tbh.

Will we put them in zoos? Will people really want to go to a zoo for class and pigs? Is that profitable / sustainable?

Or will those breeds just be slowly killed off and eventually made extinct?

I honestly have no idea, but hopefully we won't kill off entire breeds of animals just because we can't eat them... but we have done before.

Oh, I agree, I just don't know if I like the thought of making an entire breed extinct just because we made them.

Most pets are as they are because of selective breeding and are unlikely to have occurred naturally, but I wouldn't want to see entire breeds of dogs be made extinct just because of that.

I'm honestly not saying what is right or wrong here as I don't know.

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By *iamondCougarWoman
over a year ago

Norfuck! / Lincolnshire

"We are playing with Mother Nature again....

I’m not a big meat eater and mostly white meat but this just doesn’t seem natural to me. Whilst it may be a long term solution to replacing animal meat yet again it’s science meddling

I’m from a farming family although arable so yes I get your point

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By *iamondCougarWoman
over a year ago

Norfuck! / Lincolnshire

"And what about the pleasure of killing what we eat ?

Do you take pleasure in killing animals Tom?

See above .. "

Boom! All hell let’s lose.... that’s an emotive topic all of its own

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By *rscotsdudeMan
over a year ago

angus

"We are playing with Mother Nature again....

I’m not a big meat eater and mostly white meat but this just doesn’t seem natural to me. Whilst it may be a long term solution to replacing animal meat yet again it’s science meddling

Can i ask what you mean by "manipulated them genetically" ? Or an example specifically when it comes to beef cattle?

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"We are playing with Mother Nature again....

I’m not a big meat eater and mostly white meat but this just doesn’t seem natural to me. Whilst it may be a long term solution to replacing animal meat yet again it’s science meddling

Can i ask what you mean by "manipulated them genetically" ? Or an example specifically when it comes to beef cattle? "

Certainly. Galloways as a breed are derived originally from native cattle but have been selectively bred since the 17th century. Wild native cattle are dark, but recessive dun cattle (which probably wouldn't have survived long in the wild because they stick out like a sore thumb) became conserved in the farmed population and the dun Galloway became a thing. Belted Galloways resulted from the selective breeding of Galloway cattle with a breed they'd never have interacted with had the ancestors of those breeds remained in "the wild" because the belt comes from a Dutch breed.

All farmers "select" the genetics of their animals. They select bulls based on which is the biggest/most muscly/most fertile/biggest horns or whatever characteristic is deemed desirable in that specific breed and those characteristics, over time, become further and further from the "original" breed. That's genetic manipulation and it has happened in all types of farmed animal and farmed crops.

Even "native" breeds are not the same as the original native breeds because we humans decide which bulls breed which cows, we intervene to enable animals who would otherwise die (e.g. calf gets stuck) etc. That cow might struggle to give birth due to a genetically narrow pelvis or deformity of the birth canal but by intervening with a C section, we allow any genetic component to that deformity to be passed to the next generation etc.

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By *rscotsdudeMan
over a year ago

angus

"We are playing with Mother Nature again....

I’m not a big meat eater and mostly white meat but this just doesn’t seem natural to me. Whilst it may be a long term solution to replacing animal meat yet again it’s science meddling

Can i ask what you mean by "manipulated them genetically" ? Or an example specifically when it comes to beef cattle?

Im not disagreeing with most of what you have written but i disagree with the term genetic manipulation. It is just a case of selective breeding and is no worse than crossing two types of dog for a pet.

As a farmer i do have to intervene when i have too as im not going to stand back and let a calf die needlessly. 90%calve unassisted but you get the odd one coming backwards, one foot back, watersack over nose, fludid in lungs ect. In the majority of these cases a little assistance is difference between life and death. You are correct as occasionally i have the odd one too big but this happens in humans given birth too. If cattle were left to room free i believe it would happen even more. There would be a dominant bull which is more likely be the biggest that will impregnate anything he can! This would include smaller cows, ones that are too young ect. As a farmer i can match cows that are the right size, age to a suitable bull to minimise the risk of calving difficulties.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

... how is what Kinky Couple described not genetic manipulation?

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"We are playing with Mother Nature again....

I’m not a big meat eater and mostly white meat but this just doesn’t seem natural to me. Whilst it may be a long term solution to replacing animal meat yet again it’s science meddling

Can i ask what you mean by "manipulated them genetically" ? Or an example specifically when it comes to beef cattle?

That's genetic manipulation. Left to their own devices, any bull would impregnate any cow. The dun coat Galloways wouldn't survive long enough to reproduce because their light coat makes them conspicuous. There's a reason the duns only became obvious when farmers started domesticating and selectively breeding them.

It's exactly the same in dogs, cats, rabbits etc too. We humans manipulate the genetics for our own end. We select for stupid squashed noses or "naked" instead of fur or unnatural colours that would make an animal obvious to predators in the wild. Wild cats, dogs and rabbits all blend into their surroundings. Bright white or black/white spotty animals, for example, wouldn't survive in "the wild" to pass on their recessive (mutant) cost colours.

Any selection by an individual other than the animal is genetic manipulation. We're making the choices of the characteristics we want the animal to have (and to therefore pass to offspring) and so we create unnatural breeds who could not survive "the wild" or who couldn't survive simply to give birth. An animal that needs human assistance to give birth is, in biological terms, unfit. In "the wild" it'd die and so would it's offspring and so any genetic deformity might also die with it.

Of course I don't expect farmers to let animals die, but the reason they have to intervene so often is because the animals have been unnaturally bred. That's a fact and it applies to cows, sheep, pigs, dogs, cats, rabbits etc.

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By *rscotsdudeMan
over a year ago

angus

Because you are not altering the genetic make up of the animal. Its genes are not being interfered with. It is simply selective and cross breeding. There is no weird science going on!

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

*COAT colours.

To add, any animal that requires heated barns/special jackets/regular brushing or dematting/foot trimming/tooth rasping is going to struggle in the wild because they'd die of exposure/get infections/fail to keep up with the herd/be unable to eat enough.

Domestic animals need these regular interventions because we bred it so (often by accident).

I'm not passing judgement, simply stating facts.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Because you are not altering the genetic make up of the animal. Its genes are not being interfered with. It is simply selective and cross breeding. There is no weird science going on!"

... Umm the traits you're choosing come from genes. It's genetic selection. Just not as precise.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"Because you are not altering the genetic make up of the animal. Its genes are not being interfered with. It is simply selective and cross breeding. There is no weird science going on!"

You are encouraging the preservation in the population of mutations that cause the animal to be "unfit" from a biological perspective. I'm a biologist. Genetic manipulation is not lab science, it's not "weird" and yes, it's been happening ever since we humans domesticated animals (same for crops). I said that originally. The fact is, this has created unnatural breeds that would never have existed if the wild ancestors had been left to reproduce by themselves. Same for bananas - the Cavendish banana tree we eat is sterile because we have bred an unnatural plant that cannot sexually reproduce. All the Cavendish banana trees must be propagated asexually. This means cultivars are genetically the same and the plant is susceptible to disease which could wipe out the whole crop (a type of fungus called Fusarium). The genetics of disease susceptibility are the same in all Cavendish banana plants, whereas in natural reproductive situations, you'd have genetically diverse plants through sexual reproduction.

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By *rscotsdudeMan
over a year ago

angus

"Because you are not altering the genetic make up of the animal. Its genes are not being interfered with. It is simply selective and cross breeding. There is no weird science going on!

Im just an arable and beef farmer but whats wrong with any beef breed we have today in the uk? All of them would survive in the wild and dont need human intervention to sustainably survive? They certainly dont need heated barns or jackets and are certainly not unfit from a biological perspective.

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By *rscotsdudeMan
over a year ago

angus

"Because you are not altering the genetic make up of the animal. Its genes are not being interfered with. It is simply selective and cross breeding. There is no weird science going on!

... Umm the traits you're choosing come from genes. It's genetic selection. Just not as precise."

Genetic selection i can handle, genetic manipulation is the term i disagree with

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Because you are not altering the genetic make up of the animal. Its genes are not being interfered with. It is simply selective and cross breeding. There is no weird science going on!

... Umm the traits you're choosing come from genes. It's genetic selection. Just not as precise.

Genetic selection i can handle, genetic manipulation is the term i disagree with"

I misspoke and agree with Kinky Couple.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

Some of them probably would - it doesn't change the fact that modern beef animals are not "naturally" bred and if we abandoned them to the "wild" (not a uniform green field), then things like dun coats and narrow pelvises would become rare/non existent within a few generations. The animal that would exist a few generations later would probably be very different to the ones we breed on farms today because we select characteristics mainly for financial benefit rather than genetic fitness.

We've become very fixated on beef cattle specifically. My original comment was about domesticated farm animals in general (and also pet animals) and the vast majority of these would not survive successfully without husbandry of some sort. Look at broiler chickens that can't bear their own weight (even if not fed a fattening diet), dairy cows who get mastitis if not milked for litres of milk twice a day, pigs too huge to move around easily etc.

To go back to the OP, the vast majority of farm breeds would die out if we somehow went to a no meat or lab-meat only diet. They'd die as breeds if we left them to their own devices partly because of their unfitness to survive but also because their "wild" habitats no longer exist too. E.g pigs naturally live in woodland, much of which has been cut down.

None of what I'm saying is judgement on any specific group. It's simply biology and the way we have manipulated it.

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By *rscotsdudeMan
over a year ago

angus

None of what I'm saying is judgement on any specific group. It's simply biology and the way we have manipulated it."

Essentially it all comes down to the world becoming overpopulated. We as humans need increasing amounts of space, food and resources and it is always going to be at the expense of animals and habitat in one form or another if the world population expands as it is.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

None of what I'm saying is judgement on any specific group. It's simply biology and the way we have manipulated it.

The overpopulation is due to the fact we produce enough food (as a global population) to allow that, though. There's no accident that the global population has exploded in the past 40-50yrs, the same period when genetics has finally been properly understood and applied to selective breeding in a much more rigorous manner to produce more food, for less per unit cost.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"If they can do meat then surely some form of veg like material is possible. Could be useful when we do eventually explore further in space. The planned mars expedition for example. Just a thought."

There's some amazing science going on in this area. Have a look at SolarFoods (.fi), based in Finland, who appear to be making food our of air and eletricity!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I’ve always queried something with vegetarian’s and vegans with this one .....

So let’s imagine we no longer need to farm animals, I personally think this is worse for animals than eating them and here is the reason.

As per my answer above - this isn't just going to suddenly happen one Monday morning leaving animals completely worthless.

The industry will wind down over time as it gets less profitable and people will simply stop breeding meat animals on a large scale.

My point is ... even if you are right and it happens over time ... the end pint is still the same in that animals end off worse off than they are now.

Impacts."

The government will set up nursing home style sanctuaries with volunteer carers giving them a long and pleasant life.

An obligatory vaccine will be needed for each one to prevent reproduction or abortion clinics need to be set up incase if whoopsies happening as it would be unjust to segregate the sexes (probably not politically correct).

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