FabSwingers.com forum: Which way do you swing...

By *hestyDraw OP Woman
over a year ago

Here and There

...politically? Left or right?

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Left collectivist

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

Left x

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By *tephTV67TV/TS
over a year ago

Cheshire

Lefty liberal

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have no affiliation to any political party, that way I can view things individually and on there merits, rather than looking at things with a bias and worrying about what my right on friends think, also helps not to be a cliche stereotype.

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By *hilloutMan
over a year ago

All over the place! Northwesr, , Southwest

"I have no affiliation to any political party, that way I can view things individually and on there merits, rather than looking at things with a bias and worrying about what my right on friends think, also helps not to be a cliche stereotype. "

Very much this

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By *orthern StarsCouple
over a year ago

A town near you perhaps

I'd rather talk about which way I swing sexually, much more interesting

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am apolitical.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I swing towards the ‘politicians are all lying, pocket lining bottom feeders and should be the last people running this country.’ Is that left or right?

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By *eorgia82TV/TS
over a year ago

sunderland

Never played golf

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A big ol’ stereotypical leftie feminist

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I tend to be left of centre in most things though try hard to be aware of my own biases and make extra allowance for them - no idea how successful I an because obviously, what I believe is always right

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"I tend to be left of centre in most things though try hard to be aware of my own biases and make extra allowance for them - no idea how successful I an because obviously, what I believe is always right

Mr"

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By *emini ManMan
over a year ago

There and to the left a bit

Socialist ideals but a realist at heart

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Liberal, far-left.

Honestly, I don't believe anyone is apolitical - nor that they're above politics. You can certainly not have explored and considered which ideology you best align with, but you probably have an opinion on e.g. whether women should be able to vote or how often the bins should be emptied.

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By *orace99Man
over a year ago

York

Left......

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By *reya73Woman
over a year ago

Whitley Bay

Other

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No ones going to admit to being right wing are they ?!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Straight ahead

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Pragmatist

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's all lies and propaganda!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Social liberal on the spectrum but I have different views on different matters.

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

"No ones going to admit to being right wing are they ?!"

They usually have alot to say I find ! X

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Both ways.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yawn fucking yaaawn

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yawn fucking yaaawn "

Here’s an idea, if you’re not interested on a thread, maybe don’t post on it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No ones going to admit to being right wing are they ?!"

Why wouldn’t they?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Can’t have one without the other in extreme views either to the left or right .

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By *hilloutMan
over a year ago

All over the place! Northwesr, , Southwest

"No ones going to admit to being right wing are they ?!"

I lean conservative on a number of issues which runs against the grain of most my age. Doesn't bother me. I've no shame in my convictions. They're based on observation, knowledge and personal experience as opposed to blind adherence to ideology.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Politics creates division.

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

"Politics creates division.

It can do if u let it half my children are right wing and half are left and all my siblings right I never fall out! I can have a healthy discussion i have my views they have theirs x

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Politics creates division.

It can do if u let it half my children are right wing and half are left and all my siblings right I never fall out! I can have a healthy discussion i have my views they have theirs x"

Absolutely

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I did one of those think fast political tests which showed I was slightly left of centre and quite Liberal. Which is about right I'd say. Although I can harbour some right wing views, and no, I don't mean far right nut job views.

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By *lbinoGorillaMan
over a year ago

Redditch

I would imagine that, like a lot of people, I'm a left-leaning liberal on some things and a rabid right winger on others.

It's not a black or white subject

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By *omino51Man
over a year ago

loughborough

Ok i will own up. Im more right wing. But most right wingers say nothing as we let the left wingers do the moaning, they seem good at it. Guess im now off a few xmas card lists

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Politics creates division.

It can do if u let it half my children are right wing and half are left and all my siblings right I never fall out! I can have a healthy discussion i have my views they have theirs x"

Healthy political discussion is vital but impossible across the internet. Too easy to dismiss Somone else's views and opinions on a keyboard. Everyone's political views are important. It's how far you let them affect the way you live and treat others.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"I would imagine that, like a lot of people, I'm a left-leaning liberal on some things and a rabid right winger on others.

It's not a black or white subject "

Even I lean right on a couple of issues, although I'm pretty hard left in general. I stuck a label on it for a quick answer.

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By *partharmonyCouple
over a year ago

Ruislip

We both lean left.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I swing towards the ‘politicians are all lying, pocket lining bottom feeders and should be the last people running this country.’ Is that left or right?"

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

"Ok i will own up. Im more right wing. But most right wingers say nothing as we let the left wingers do the moaning, they seem good at it. Guess im now off a few xmas card lists

Think it's quite the opposite I find do all the moaning x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ok i will own up. Im more right wing. But most right wingers say nothing as we let the left wingers do the moaning, they seem good at it. Guess im now off a few xmas card lists

Think it's quite the opposite I find do all the moaning x"

Left or right we all love to moan about something

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

"Politics creates division.

It can do if u let it half my children are right wing and half are left and all my siblings right I never fall out! I can have a healthy discussion i have my views they have theirs x

True! But I allways remain polite and stick to my views which most find very controversial i find and i recieve alot of abuse but still remain composed and polite x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Politics creates division.

It can do if u let it half my children are right wing and half are left and all my siblings right I never fall out! I can have a healthy discussion i have my views they have theirs x

True! But I allways remain polite and stick to my views which most find very controversial i find and i recieve alot of abuse but still remain composed and polite x"

Abuse of any kind is wrong. No matter what your views are no one gets to be horrible because of politics. Some people aye.....

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

I’d say I’m about 70% conservative 30% leftie liberal.

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By *ily WhiteWoman
over a year ago

I'm definitely more towards the right, but how far depends on the individual subject - I tend to look at everything objectively and apply my personal beliefs and principles.

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport

My views vary according to circumstance. I'm broadly in favour of dogging, but i still like cats, although they can give me allergies...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 13/10/20 09:40:28]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Left/right isn't about tribal allegiance to your "team" (though some people treat it as such) - it's an alignment based on your political instincts.

Left-wing people tend towards equality and freedom, and don't tend to respect social hierarchy and institutions (at least, not enough to preserve them when they are in the way).

Right-wing people tend to believe that people should be organised into social hierarchies, and seek to preserve/strengthen institutions - and see people that are unequal and/or unfree under those hierarchies/institutions to be, at best, an unfortunate but inevitable consequence.

Within that there are lots of SOLUTIONS, but people tend to agree on their instincts - and you can see this across a range of issues. One example is women's rights: the left saw it as obvious and right that a woman is seen as equal to, and have the same opportunities as a man. The right feared the breakdown of society that would occur when women were no longer fulfilling their roles as primary caregivers etc. The left didn't really care, because they didn't value a society in which people weren't free. The right saw this as bonkers, because they saw people (including women) as more free now than they would be under social breakdown.

Saying you take everything on it's merits is moot - politics isn't a science, and where you lean on issues will ultimately be down to how you see the world and what you value within it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Unfortunately now if you say you lean to the right, your get accused of being a fascist, nazi nut job.

I lean towards common sense, freedom of speech and kindness. x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In my youth everything was black and white and I wanted to change society for the better. My aims were left leaning in so far as wanting to redistribute wealth improve the lives of those less able and ensure the education and health systems delivered excellent services without the need to pay.

I suppose those ideals hold firm today but with, dare I say it, age, comes a blurring of the lines with black and white merging into a very middle aged grey.

So in answer to the OP left by nature but now centre left due to the effluxion of time.

The red flag has become a whiter shade of pink!

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By *ntrepid ExplorersCouple
over a year ago

Birmingham

"Unfortunately now if you say you lean to the right, your get accused of being a fascist, nazi nut job.

I lean towards common sense, freedom of speech and kindness. x"

I think everyone would *say* they approve of those things. Not things I see in the right in the slightest from my view of the world. Priti Patel? Kind?

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By *ntrepid ExplorersCouple
over a year ago

Birmingham

"In my youth everything was black and white and I wanted to change society for the better. My aims were left leaning in so far as wanting to redistribute wealth improve the lives of those less able and ensure the education and health systems delivered excellent services without the need to pay.

I suppose those ideals hold firm today but with, dare I say it, age, comes a blurring of the lines with black and white merging into a very middle aged grey.

So in answer to the OP left by nature but now centre left due to the effluxion of time.

The red flag has become a whiter shade of pink!"

I wonder how much people that start left and end up drifting towards the centre are less softening their position, but seeing the world as a more complex thing, with more need for compromise as they learn more. The less you hide behind headlines, the more you have to drift to the middle?

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By *ntrepid ExplorersCouple
over a year ago

Birmingham

"I swing towards the ‘politicians are all lying, pocket lining bottom feeders and should be the last people running this country.’ Is that left or right?"

So probably the absolute worst position to take? Cool.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

I suppose those ideals hold firm today but with, dare I say it, age, comes a blurring of the lines with black and white merging into a very middle aged grey.

So in answer to the OP left by nature but now centre left due to the effluxion of time.

The red flag has become a whiter shade of pink!

I suspect that's true of all politics. My politics have softened somewhat over time (yeah really

). Interestingly, I now meet my mum politically on an awful lot of issues. She's crept from a touch beyond centre right to... trust me I'm definitely not as far right as centre left

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By *rumpyMcFuckNuggetMan
over a year ago

Den of Iniquity

Neither . I'd rather talk about Coronation Street and I hate that

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I suppose those ideals hold firm today but with, dare I say it, age, comes a blurring of the lines with black and white merging into a very middle aged grey.

So in answer to the OP left by nature but now centre left due to the effluxion of time.

The red flag has become a whiter shade of pink!

Yes I think you are correct and with a polar view comes blinkers. I do take time to listen to other views on most subjects and seek common ground as in the end conflict can only be resolved by talking a gift given to human kind that is underused?

That said I am more than happy to contribute to the exchequer in direct correlation to me income. As a life long member of CND is see no merit in WMD when an invisible Virus has wreaked so much damage. The House of Lords is the most undemocratic institution ever created so maybe I am still a revolutionary with aging hippy tendencies?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I wonder how much people that start left and end up drifting towards the centre are less softening their position, but seeing the world as a more complex thing, with more need for compromise as they learn more. The less you hide behind headlines, the more you have to drift to the middle?"

So, experience definitely gives you a better understanding of the complexity of the world - but honestly, that could take you from anywhere and to anywhere.

We know that important factors that divide left/right wing people change as we get older. Broadly, older people are less open to new experiences and are less curious intellectually, for example.

But a strong, well-understood reason is that older people literally think slower - they can't make judgements as quickly as younger people. Now, this is more than made up for by their wisdom - but that pre-packaged wisdom applies less well to new problems. So, older people can become less tolerant of change because that change literally breaks their understanding of the world.

This is a broad understanding of populations - individuals can and will differ, and you can land up with some very radical views that crystallise into your old-age "wisdom" (so it's not perfectly true that people become more right-wing with age). But it does explain a lot about why e.g. very left-wing people suddenly find themselves trying to preserve the world they understand, instead of tolerating the change they don't.

(And before you start throwing the rotten fruit: I'm well past my intellectual prime

)

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By *ntrepid ExplorersCouple
over a year ago

Birmingham

I suppose those ideals hold firm today but with, dare I say it, age, comes a blurring of the lines with black and white merging into a very middle aged grey.

So in answer to the OP left by nature but now centre left due to the effluxion of time.

The red flag has become a whiter shade of pink!

I suspect that's true of all politics. My politics have softened somewhat over time (yeah really

). Interestingly, I now meet my mum politically on an awful lot of issues. She's crept from a touch beyond centre right to... trust me I'm definitely not as far right as centre left

They are abhorrent oxygen thieves IMO, however I've got to admit that the quote in "Britannia Unchained" by those cabinet turds rings pretty true to me...

"The British are among the worst idlers in the world. We work among the lowest hours, we retire early and our productivity is poor. Whereas Indian children aspire to be doctors or businessmen, the British are more interested in football and pop music."

So then I have to start questioning what my position really is... or to maybe try and detach from a left / right view much of the time.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

So then I have to start questioning what my position really is... or to maybe try and detach from a left / right view much of the time."

I have values. I just grab the label that fits them best, for discussions like these. I get into the nitty gritty in private.

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By *ntrepid ExplorersCouple
over a year ago

Birmingham

So then I have to start questioning what my position really is... or to maybe try and detach from a left / right view much of the time.

I have values. I just grab the label that fits them best, for discussions like these. I get into the nitty gritty in private."

Oh yes you've got to talk to the audience, work out how subtle a discussion you are having.

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

I suppose those ideals hold firm today but with, dare I say it, age, comes a blurring of the lines with black and white merging into a very middle aged grey.

So in answer to the OP left by nature but now centre left due to the effluxion of time.

The red flag has become a whiter shade of pink!

I find the opposite I get more left as time goes on x

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

I wonder why those are on the right are much more less likely to shout it from the rooftops?

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By *ntrepid ExplorersCouple
over a year ago

Birmingham

"I wonder why those are on the right are much more less likely to shout it from the rooftops?"

I've not seen that to be true at all. They tend to not think The Nasty Party are Nasty at all. I live in a very Blue area sadly, and I get battered on local Facebook groups if I have an opinion.

I am very heartened to see how this thread has gone in general though. I tend to presume this is a pretty right leaning place, but then don't think that the forum fans are that representative of the users over all.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

one side of me family are rangers fans.

the other are celtic.

trust me, ive heard it all and none of it is pretty.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"I wonder why those are on the right are much more less likely to shout it from the rooftops?

I've not seen that to be true at all. They tend to not think The Nasty Party are Nasty at all. I live in a very Blue area sadly, and I get battered on local Facebook groups if I have an opinion.

Very few have 'outed'themselves on here.

And there are plenty of them

I do think there is a reticence to say you are a Tory.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Right

As nobody has said it yet I'm right, I'm always right unless I'm in the presence of a female then I'm never right

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By *uHorny1Man
over a year ago

Cannock

Left.

It fits with my general beliefs of looking after those in society who need it so we can all live decent lives.

As opposed to the self serving of the right...

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Left.

It fits with my general beliefs of looking after those in society who need it so we can all live decent lives.

As opposed to the self serving of the right..."

Hmm. I think the right favour stability and structure. I can understand that. I disagree, but I understand.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Very few have 'outed'themselves on here.

And there are plenty of them

I do think there is a reticence to say you are a Tory."

I think the problem is that right now unless you can say "I'm right-wing but I'd never vote for the current lot" you're essentially signing up for defending them. A lot of people voted against Corbyn in 2019 but are probably quite ashamed to be associated with e.g. prison islands for migrants, and a land border with Kent.

The dominant strain of conservatism in the UK is very soft, "don't rewind progress but don't risk more either" stuff, and the current dominant ideological strain is far to the right of that.

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By *uHorny1Man
over a year ago

Cannock

"Left.

It fits with my general beliefs of looking after those in society who need it so we can all live decent lives.

As opposed to the self serving of the right...

Hmm. I think the right favour stability and structure. I can understand that. I disagree, but I understand."

Stability and structure means them keeping all their privileges. Theres a kind of right wing underclass who think it benefits them but dont realise it doesn't.

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By *etite_delightWoman
over a year ago

BunnyLand

Very much this

second tapping that

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Very few have 'outed'themselves on here.

And there are plenty of them

I do think there is a reticence to say you are a Tory.

The dominant strain of conservatism in the UK is very soft, "don't rewind progress but don't risk more either" stuff, and the current dominant ideological strain is far to the right of that."

I'd want to disconnect left and right wing from British politics. I mean, I suppose how far you are from centre depends very much on where centre is... but politics can and does exist outside national bounds.

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By *ntrepid ExplorersCouple
over a year ago

Birmingham

Very much this

second tapping that

It's a reasonable opening gambit, but who the hell is free of bias? I wouldn't dream of saying I wasn't.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Left

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Left.

It fits with my general beliefs of looking after those in society who need it so we can all live decent lives.

As opposed to the self serving of the right...

Hmm. I think the right favour stability and structure. I can understand that. I disagree, but I understand.

Stability and structure means them keeping all their privileges. Theres a kind of right wing underclass who think it benefits them but dont realise it doesn't."

I agree in the main, but they don't see it that way. I think they think we want to throw the world into chaos for no good reason. And I can understand resistance to that, wanting to keep things safe.

(Safe for whom, and why, is another question, which is why I'm sitting here wanting to burn it all down

)

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By *iker boy 69Man
over a year ago

midlands

"I swing towards the ‘politicians are all lying, pocket lining bottom feeders and should be the last people running this country.’ Is that left or right?"

Couldnt have worded it better.

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By *ntrepid ExplorersCouple
over a year ago

Birmingham

"Left.

It fits with my general beliefs of looking after those in society who need it so we can all live decent lives.

As opposed to the self serving of the right...

Hmm. I think the right favour stability and structure. I can understand that. I disagree, but I understand.

Stability and structure means them keeping all their privileges. Theres a kind of right wing underclass who think it benefits them but dont realise it doesn't.

I agree in the main, but they don't see it that way. I think they think we want to throw the world into chaos for no good reason. And I can understand resistance to that, wanting to keep things safe.

(Safe for whom, and why, is another question, which is why I'm sitting here wanting to burn it all down

I'd certainly like to get a better feeling for how I'm supposedly a baddy in their world.

Chaos... yet they are the ones voting to destroy so so much and make us a global footnote... Just can't get my head around that.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Left.

It fits with my general beliefs of looking after those in society who need it so we can all live decent lives.

As opposed to the self serving of the right...

Hmm. I think the right favour stability and structure. I can understand that. I disagree, but I understand.

Stability and structure means them keeping all their privileges. Theres a kind of right wing underclass who think it benefits them but dont realise it doesn't.

I agree in the main, but they don't see it that way. I think they think we want to throw the world into chaos for no good reason. And I can understand resistance to that, wanting to keep things safe.

(Safe for whom, and why, is another question, which is why I'm sitting here wanting to burn it all down

)

I'd certainly like to get a better feeling for how I'm supposedly a baddy in their world.

Chaos... yet they are the ones voting to destroy so so much and make us a global footnote... Just can't get my head around that."

I stretch my credulity to attempt to understand.

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By *ntrepid ExplorersCouple
over a year ago

Birmingham

"I swing towards the ‘politicians are all lying, pocket lining bottom feeders and should be the last people running this country.’ Is that left or right?

Couldnt have worded it better."

That's a deeply stupid position. There are SO many good politicians. To crassly brand ALL MPs as self serving just betrays a deep ignorance to the subject and whoever holds those views aren't worth listening to.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I know very little about politics and don't read newspapers or watch the news etc ..

I'm in my little bubble.

I find ranty political types insufferable and try and remain neutral.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'd want to disconnect left and right wing from British politics. I mean, I suppose how far you are from centre depends very much on where centre is... but politics can and does exist outside national bounds."

I somewhat get that, but it is inextricable really, given the UK-centric nature of the forums.

Unless you specify otherwise, if you say you're right-wing people are going to assume you vote for a right-wing party. Ditto left-wing, but nobody on the left is in power right now - one would assume if Corbyn won and was currently fucking the country there would be a lot of reticence claiming to be left-wing without qualifying

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

I somewhat get that, but it is inextricable really, given the UK-centric nature of the forums.

I would

Idgaf it is who I am.

I see my politics as values and they exist outside and in spite of any national politics.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"I swing towards the ‘politicians are all lying, pocket lining bottom feeders and should be the last people running this country.’ Is that left or right?

Couldnt have worded it better.

I despise politicians. I really do. I try to work around them

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By *ntrepid ExplorersCouple
over a year ago

Birmingham

I somewhat get that, but it is inextricable really, given the UK-centric nature of the forums.

I want a left leaning party in power for sure, but would've hated it being him at the top.

Wonder where we could be by now if we had a decent voting system. I really think everything stems from that. So much societal benefit from destroying the two party system.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

I somewhat get that, but it is inextricable really, given the UK-centric nature of the forums.

I want a left leaning party in power for sure, but would've hated it being him at the top.

Wonder where we could be by now if we had a decent voting system. I really think everything stems from that. So much societal benefit from destroying the two party system."

God so much. Even some tweaks would help.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Left.

It fits with my general beliefs of looking after those in society who need it so we can all live decent lives.

As opposed to the self serving of the right...

Hmm. I think the right favour stability and structure. I can understand that. I disagree, but I understand.

Stability and structure means them keeping all their privileges. Theres a kind of right wing underclass who think it benefits them but dont realise it doesn't.

I agree in the main, but they don't see it that way. I think they think we want to throw the world into chaos for no good reason. And I can understand resistance to that, wanting to keep things safe.

(Safe for whom, and why, is another question, which is why I'm sitting here wanting to burn it all down

)

I'd certainly like to get a better feeling for how I'm supposedly a baddy in their world.

Chaos... yet they are the ones voting to destroy so so much and make us a global footnote... Just can't get my head around that."

In the minds of the right? They're not destroying anything, they're restoring things to what they should be.

(Of course, there are lots of people that are basically egoists, using people's beliefs disingenuously to achieve more wealth/power/etc. They might not identify as such, mind)

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By *ntrepid ExplorersCouple
over a year ago

Birmingham

"I swing towards the ‘politicians are all lying, pocket lining bottom feeders and should be the last people running this country.’ Is that left or right?

Couldnt have worded it better.

I despise politicians. I really do. I try to work around them "

Nooo don't say that, you clearly ARE very much worth listening to. Don't make me think about things like this!

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"I swing towards the ‘politicians are all lying, pocket lining bottom feeders and should be the last people running this country.’ Is that left or right?

Couldnt have worded it better.

I despise politicians. I really do. I try to work around them

Nooo don't say that, you clearly ARE very much worth listening to. Don't make me think about things like this!"

Thank you.

I see politics as values as I say. The word politics derives from the ancient Greek for citizen.

I ask myself how to be a good citizen (or in this case, enfranchised resident - yeah there's Greek for that, don't make me do it

). That can be within the political system or outside it.

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By *ntrepid ExplorersCouple
over a year ago

Birmingham

Wonder where we could be by now if we had a decent voting system. I really think everything stems from that. So much societal benefit from destroying the two party system.

God so much. Even some tweaks would help."

The "undemocratic" EU is far more democratic than we are!

There is a lot of intelligent objection to it though, so I accept it's not an open shut thing. People want to vote for a specific person, rather than someone they don't know magically getting in on the other side of the county... I get that, but ack, need change.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

We have traditionally been a conservative country (probally had one left leaning gmnt in the last 80 year's)

As a people we still seem to have a deference to the upper elite, believing somehow that because someone can speak latin,they would make a good leader.

The media have a huge impact and are almost overwhelmingly right wing.

Right now we have lurched even more to the right,thanks to Brexit, and any sense of any social justice is considered radical and dangerous.We have reached a situation where ordinary people actually argue that the rich should pay as little tax as possible.

Depressing stuff.

Sorry in a ranty mood today.

For a change

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By *uHorny1Man
over a year ago

Cannock

Very much this

second tapping that

It's a reasonable opening gambit, but who the hell is free of bias? I wouldn't dream of saying I wasn't."

Exactly this. Nobody sits on the fence. It's a matter of how far you are away from it. And people dont keep climbing over the fence.

Unless they want to get their ball back

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

I somewhat get that, but it is inextricable really, given the UK-centric nature of the forums.

I want a left leaning party in power for sure, but would've hated it being him at the top.

Wonder where we could be by now if we had a decent voting system. I really think everything stems from that. So much societal benefit from destroying the two party system."

Why exactly?

I often find people say they hated corbyn yet when pressed cannot give an actual reason why.

He was a politician with integrity and was fucking eviscerated.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I would

Idgaf it is who I am.

I see my politics as values and they exist outside and in spite of any national politics."

IMO politics is the application of values - I would argue that the biggest problem the left has (as someone that considers himself about as left-wing as you can get) is that we come up with fanciful and radical transformations we want to achieve that are just disconnected from day-to-day reality.

Sure, my VALUES are that we achieve perfect and holistic freedom for everyone. But my POLITICS is about achieving that, and that's going to be tied to the terrain and the weather conditions.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Wonder where we could be by now if we had a decent voting system. I really think everything stems from that. So much societal benefit from destroying the two party system.

God so much. Even some tweaks would help.

The "undemocratic" EU is far more democratic than we are!

There's certainly an appeal of having "your" MP, someone who speaks for your region. But I think given the enormous machinery of modern political parties, the idea is all but obsolete. I think the complexity of the modern state demands political parties...

So how do we make individual votes meaningful without the disconnect? Do you vote for a person, or do you vote for a party? How do you have a vote where you're not voting holding your nose? etc

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By *uHorny1Man
over a year ago

Cannock

Very much this

second tapping that

It's a reasonable opening gambit, but who the hell is free of bias? I wouldn't dream of saying I wasn't."

Exactly this. Nobody sits on the fence. It's a matter of how far you are away from it. And people dont keep climbing over the fence.

Unless they want to get their ball back

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"I would

Idgaf it is who I am.

I see my politics as values and they exist outside and in spite of any national politics.

Sure, my VALUES are that we achieve perfect and holistic freedom for everyone. But my POLITICS is about achieving that, and that's going to be tied to the terrain and the weather conditions."

Yeah that's definitely true. Which is why my political discussions vary greatly depending on my audience. Still the same thrust but different emphases.

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By *ntrepid ExplorersCouple
over a year ago

Birmingham

Wonder where we could be by now if we had a decent voting system. I really think everything stems from that. So much societal benefit from destroying the two party system.

God so much. Even some tweaks would help.

The "undemocratic" EU is far more democratic than we are!

So how do we make individual votes meaningful without the disconnect? Do you vote for a person, or do you vote for a party? How do you have a vote where you're not voting holding your nose? etc"

Given I'm in Sajid Javids constituency, my vote does NOT matter. Absolutely irrelevant. I didn't even bother voting for Labour as they stood no chance, so went for the decent guy in Dr David Nichol instead. Left my conscience clear but was a waste of time...

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By *imon_hydeMan
over a year ago

Moelfre

I somewhat get that, but it is inextricable really, given the UK-centric nature of the forums.

I want a left leaning party in power for sure, but would've hated it being him at the top.

Wonder where we could be by now if we had a decent voting system. I really think everything stems from that. So much societal benefit from destroying the two party system.

Why exactly?

I often find people say they hated corbyn yet when pressed cannot give an actual reason why.

He was a politician with integrity and was fucking eviscerated."

He's a strange one is Corbyn, a great MP but was an appalling leader. There's a whiff of incompetence around him and his cabinet choices didn't inspire confidence. Starmer is turning it around and feels like a prime minister in waiting.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

I somewhat get that, but it is inextricable really, given the UK-centric nature of the forums.

I want a left leaning party in power for sure, but would've hated it being him at the top.

Wonder where we could be by now if we had a decent voting system. I really think everything stems from that. So much societal benefit from destroying the two party system.

Why exactly?

I often find people say they hated corbyn yet when pressed cannot give an actual reason why.

He was a politician with integrity and was fucking eviscerated.

I think people forgot how well he did in 1st election

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Wonder where we could be by now if we had a decent voting system. I really think everything stems from that. So much societal benefit from destroying the two party system.

God so much. Even some tweaks would help.

The "undemocratic" EU is far more democratic than we are!

So how do we make individual votes meaningful without the disconnect? Do you vote for a person, or do you vote for a party? How do you have a vote where you're not voting holding your nose? etc

I know that feeling, in Australia I always lived in a seat where you could stick a blue ribbon on a turd, etc (before anyone has a go, I first heard the expression about red ribbons and Liverpool). Although the way the votes work there made it a bit more palatable.

But there's the disconnect, between the desire to make it about a person and an area... but those feelings, despite how much they seem to influence the voting public, don't seem to do much when it comes to the national stage.

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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago

Dubai & Nottingham

You sound like a politician.... who do you vote for ?

We’re not really into politics , Mrs is a bit left leaning through her work , I’m more federalist / anarchist, I think centrist politics is a joke. They sit in London making animal noises at each other.... these people are in charge? I don’t think so

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

"I wonder why those are on the right are much more less likely to shout it from the rooftops?

I've not seen that to be true at all. They tend to not think The Nasty Party are Nasty at all. I live in a very Blue area sadly, and I get battered on local Facebook groups if I have an opinion.

Yes deffo this I'm I blue area and get slaughtered on f book for my views! My fave at mo is all those who voted brexit around me and are moaning about the checking lorry park they building right here in ashford x

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By *ust PeachyWoman
over a year ago

Prestonish

"...politically? Left or right?

Left of centre - but not far left! I’d probably be a liberal if they ever had a voteable leader/party. Xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"...politically? Left or right?

Left of centre - but not far left! I’d probably be a liberal if they ever had a voteable leader/party. Xx"

Some may say that is why the UK is a good place to live. We are a centrist country and has the recent past has shown we either plump for a slightly left or slightly right government. However I think the incumbents are sprinkled with right wing followers.

There is very little difference between leading politicians most are white, male have had a reasonably privileged life and have made a career out of being in the public eye.

Where is Dennis Skinner when you need him!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"...politically? Left or right?

Left of centre - but not far left! I’d probably be a liberal if they ever had a voteable leader/party. Xx"

O and you seem to be perfectly placed in the centre of those stairs!

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By *ust PeachyWoman
over a year ago

Prestonish

I somewhat get that, but it is inextricable really, given the UK-centric nature of the forums.

I want a left leaning party in power for sure, but would've hated it being him at the top.

Wonder where we could be by now if we had a decent voting system. I really think everything stems from that. So much societal benefit from destroying the two party system.

Why exactly?

I often find people say they hated corbyn yet when pressed cannot give an actual reason why.

He was a politician with integrity and was fucking eviscerated.

At the end of the day Corbin was seen as too far left for more centre leaning peeps like myself. I voted for him at the last election - but only because I’d rather shoot myself than vote for Boris. The way he stabbed the country/his own party in the back with Brexit and the ensuing debacle is deplorable - and in no way should he ever have been made PM.

I’m sure I’ll be lynched for this (but I’m off to work anyway so ner!

) - but I think Blair and Cameron were both good leaders and very votable. Obviously Blair shot himself in the foot with Iraq - as did Cameron with Brexit - but I believe if Cameron was still in power now we’d be in far better shape.

I’m watching Starmer with interest though - and believe that unless the Conservatives replace Boris - he’ll be the next PM.

Now I’m off to work before the tar and feather brigade arrive!

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"I wonder why those are on the right are much more less likely to shout it from the rooftops?

I've not seen that to be true at all. They tend to not think The Nasty Party are Nasty at all. I live in a very Blue area sadly, and I get battered on local Facebook groups if I have an opinion.

I'd find it hard not to laugh.

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By *ust PeachyWoman
over a year ago

Prestonish

"...politically? Left or right?

Left of centre - but not far left! I’d probably be a liberal if they ever had a voteable leader/party. Xx

O and you seem to be perfectly placed in the centre of those stairs!"

Yup - just like Kermit the Frog!

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

Its mad how centre left policies such as increased nationalisation (ie not having our public services in the hands of a foreign company)are seen as 'far left '

That's how much we have moved to the right

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"...politically? Left or right?

Left of centre - but not far left! I’d probably be a liberal if they ever had a voteable leader/party. Xx

O and you seem to be perfectly placed in the centre of those stairs!

Yup - just like Kermit the Frog!

Kermit would not look as good in those heels. That said I see you are leaning on the right for support!

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

"I wonder why those are on the right are much more less likely to shout it from the rooftops?

I've not seen that to be true at all. They tend to not think The Nasty Party are Nasty at all. I live in a very Blue area sadly, and I get battered on local Facebook groups if I have an opinion.

I'd find it hard not to laugh. "

I do just that!

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Its mad how centre left policies such as increased nationalisation (ie not having our public services in the hands of a foreign company)are seen as 'far left '

That's how much we have moved to the right "

It's why I never define my politics by national standards. I believe what I believe and that's not dictated by what others believe

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Its mad how centre left policies such as increased nationalisation (ie not having our public services in the hands of a foreign company)are seen as 'far left '

That's how much we have moved to the right "

The nationalisation debate is a funny one. I see no reason why the Royal Mail should still exist. Postal services should be subject to deregulation as they currently are to some degree. However national transportation, communications,energy and social services need to be owned and run for the people.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

When I youger I didnt really have an interest in politics but as someone said before I've actually got more radical as I've got older (its supposed to be the other way around)

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Its mad how centre left policies such as increased nationalisation (ie not having our public services in the hands of a foreign company)are seen as 'far left '

That's how much we have moved to the right

When Royal Mail was the primary form of communication then I can see it. I'd probably make the argument for broadband now over a mail service.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Its mad how centre left policies such as increased nationalisation (ie not having our public services in the hands of a foreign company)are seen as 'far left '

That's how much we have moved to the right

*owned by and run for the people!

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"Its mad how centre left policies such as increased nationalisation (ie not having our public services in the hands of a foreign company)are seen as 'far left '

That's how much we have moved to the right

Wasnt the royal mail sold off?

National run services like travel and utilities would bring millions into the country ,yet he got absolutely slaughtered for suggesting it.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"When I youger I didnt really have an interest in politics but as someone said before I've actually got more radical as I've got older (its supposed to be the other way around)

I got started early and haven't shifted much, although I examine my beliefs regularly. I have core values, I suppose. How do I work with those to be a good citizen/ resident?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Its mad how centre left policies such as increased nationalisation (ie not having our public services in the hands of a foreign company)are seen as 'far left '

That's how much we have moved to the right

When Royal Mail was the primary form of communication then I can see it. I'd probably make the argument for broadband now over a mail service."

Precisely the world has moved on and there should be no barriers of entry to that market.

However the generation, distribution and supply of energy, for example, should be entirely the responsibility of the government on behalf of the vox pop?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm more of the view it doesn't matter who wins an election the government always gets in.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Its mad how centre left policies such as increased nationalisation (ie not having our public services in the hands of a foreign company)are seen as 'far left '

That's how much we have moved to the right

When Royal Mail was the primary form of communication then I can see it. I'd probably make the argument for broadband now over a mail service.

Precisely the world has moved on and there should be no barriers of entry to that market.

However the generation, distribution and supply of energy, for example, should be entirely the responsibility of the government on behalf of the vox pop?"

I think I'd err on - everything that we need to have a basic functional existence should be subject to heavy governmental and independent (state run but out of the mitts of politicians) regulation. Utilities, communication, medicine, education (including tertiary), a safety net (at least) of public transport, and voting.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"When I youger I didnt really have an interest in politics but as someone said before I've actually got more radical as I've got older (its supposed to be the other way around)

I got started early and haven't shifted much, although I examine my beliefs regularly. I have core values, I suppose. How do I work with those to be a good citizen/ resident?"

You live your life with three basic principles

Assist those who are less fortunate

Be tolerant to those with whom you disagree

Always listen to your conscience as that defines and regulates your moral compass.

That maketh the person.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"When I youger I didnt really have an interest in politics but as someone said before I've actually got more radical as I've got older (its supposed to be the other way around)

I got started early and haven't shifted much, although I examine my beliefs regularly. I have core values, I suppose. How do I work with those to be a good citizen/ resident?

You live your life with three basic principles

Assist those who are less fortunate

Be tolerant to those with whom you disagree

Always listen to your conscience as that defines and regulates your moral compass.

That maketh the person."

Hmm. I'd argue about tolerance. Depends on the disagreement and how much it matters.

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

"When I youger I didnt really have an interest in politics but as someone said before I've actually got more radical as I've got older (its supposed to be the other way around)

I got started early and haven't shifted much, although I examine my beliefs regularly. I have core values, I suppose. How do I work with those to be a good citizen/ resident?

You live your life with three basic principles

Assist those who are less fortunate

Be tolerant to those with whom you disagree

Always listen to your conscience as that defines and regulates your moral compass.

That maketh the person."

Yes for sure! X

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Its mad how centre left policies such as increased nationalisation (ie not having our public services in the hands of a foreign company)are seen as 'far left '

That's how much we have moved to the right

When Royal Mail was the primary form of communication then I can see it. I'd probably make the argument for broadband now over a mail service.

Precisely the world has moved on and there should be no barriers of entry to that market.

However the generation, distribution and supply of energy, for example, should be entirely the responsibility of the government on behalf of the vox pop?

We have moved on since the early days of nationalisation. The use of technology and checks and balances are ways of ensuring efficiency transparency and accountability.

The very best management should be procured to run these organisations and modern day employment practices used to ensure that productivity and employment are the key performance drivers.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Its mad how centre left policies such as increased nationalisation (ie not having our public services in the hands of a foreign company)are seen as 'far left '

That's how much we have moved to the right

When Royal Mail was the primary form of communication then I can see it. I'd probably make the argument for broadband now over a mail service.

Precisely the world has moved on and there should be no barriers of entry to that market.

However the generation, distribution and supply of energy, for example, should be entirely the responsibility of the government on behalf of the vox pop?

We have moved on since the early days of nationalisation. The use of technology and checks and balances are ways of ensuring efficiency transparency and accountability.

The very best management should be procured to run these organisations and modern day employment practices used to ensure that productivity and employment are the key performance drivers. "

For sure. But the current model is a gross failure and public funds are being used to unjustly enrich corporations.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"However the generation, distribution and supply of energy, for example, should be entirely the responsibility of the government on behalf of the vox pop?

By this argument food production and distribution should be nationalised - but that's objectively a terrible idea, by almost any measure. To ensure people have access to basic needs the government should seek to intervene, or not intervene, in the most effective way possible.

I would argue that almost nothing in this country would be better if it were nationalised, and almost nothing that's now privatised was better when it was nationalised.

But it's clear that there are a lot of things that are not working, and need government intervention to set right - and that may involve placing things "in the hands of the people" at a local or regional level, in various ways.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"When I youger I didnt really have an interest in politics but as someone said before I've actually got more radical as I've got older (its supposed to be the other way around)

I got started early and haven't shifted much, although I examine my beliefs regularly. I have core values, I suppose. How do I work with those to be a good citizen/ resident?

You live your life with three basic principles

Assist those who are less fortunate

Be tolerant to those with whom you disagree

Always listen to your conscience as that defines and regulates your moral compass.

That maketh the person.

Hmm. I'd argue about tolerance. Depends on the disagreement and how much it matters."

How very dare you disagree..........

I am talking ordinary life here. I would have taken up arms against the Nazis as evil has no right to tolerance. However a political difference is something that should be considered discussed and debated under the warm blanket of tolerance?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Is this a sneaky way to let all the politics ranters into the lounge?

Get in your own forum!

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"However the generation, distribution and supply of energy, for example, should be entirely the responsibility of the government on behalf of the vox pop?

I would argue that almost nothing in this country would be better if it were nationalised, and almost nothing that's now privatised was better when it was nationalised.

I suppose I'm a product of my time. "Let's privatise this, it'll make it better!" *Thing gets privatised, gets more expensive and worse* "let's privatise it harder!"

I think some things are better off without a profit motive. I didn't list food, and you're right, that would be bad.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"However the generation, distribution and supply of energy, for example, should be entirely the responsibility of the government on behalf of the vox pop?

I would argue that almost nothing in this country would be better if it were nationalised, and almost nothing that's now privatised was better when it was nationalised.

The prices of rail and utilities have risen astronomically.

Even the Tories are renationslising part of the railways as they have been a disaster.

The probation service has been a clusterfuck.

A private company built a hospital here then ran out of money and had to be bailed out by the taxpayer.

I'm genuinely baffled as why its beneficial for the country to have a foreign firm running service when we could run it just as well.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"However the generation, distribution and supply of energy, for example, should be entirely the responsibility of the government on behalf of the vox pop?

I would argue that almost nothing in this country would be better if it were nationalised, and almost nothing that's now privatised was better when it was nationalised.

No I disagree. There are few barriers to entry to food production. Producers, distributors, and retailer can enter the market without much ado. I can grow cucumbers ask my mate to take them to my other mare to sell them.

If I want to sell a kw of electricity I need access to the distribution network of which I have no access.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This will shock some of you...(not)

Lefty

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"When I youger I didnt really have an interest in politics but as someone said before I've actually got more radical as I've got older (its supposed to be the other way around)

I got started early and haven't shifted much, although I examine my beliefs regularly. I have core values, I suppose. How do I work with those to be a good citizen/ resident?

You live your life with three basic principles

Assist those who are less fortunate

Be tolerant to those with whom you disagree

Always listen to your conscience as that defines and regulates your moral compass.

That maketh the person.

Hmm. I'd argue about tolerance. Depends on the disagreement and how much it matters.

How very dare you disagree..........

Ish. There are degrees.

Decamping refugees into prisons on islands ("offshore processing", a chilling Orwellian euphemism which has become normalised) has been the norm in Australia, for example, for... over fifteen years? (Tampa scandal 2001, all went rapidly downhill from there)

A few years ago Tony Abbott presented the idea to the Tories and it was seen, by the Tories as "a bit fascist". Now they're talking about it.

It's still rather fascist. No

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"However the generation, distribution and supply of energy, for example, should be entirely the responsibility of the government on behalf of the vox pop?

I would argue that almost nothing in this country would be better if it were nationalised, and almost nothing that's now privatised was better when it was nationalised.

The prices of rail and utilities have risen astronomically.

Even the Tories are renationslising part of the railways as they have been a disaster.

The probation service has been a clusterfuck.

A private company built a hospital here then ran out of money and had to be bailed out by the taxpayer.

I'm genuinely baffled as why its beneficial for the country to have a foreign firm running service when we could run it just as well."

The Private Finance Initiative was conceived and implemented by Mr Blair and a very popular Labour Party!

PF I is generally regarded as economic clusters fuck.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"However the generation, distribution and supply of energy, for example, should be entirely the responsibility of the government on behalf of the vox pop?

I would argue that almost nothing in this country would be better if it were nationalised, and almost nothing that's now privatised was better when it was nationalised.

The prices of rail and utilities have risen astronomically.

Even the Tories are renationslising part of the railways as they have been a disaster.

The probation service has been a clusterfuck.

A private company built a hospital here then ran out of money and had to be bailed out by the taxpayer.

I'm genuinely baffled as why its beneficial for the country to have a foreign firm running service when we could run it just as well.

The Private Finance Initiative was conceived and implemented by Mr Blair and a very popular Labour Party!

PF I is generally regarded as economic clusters fuck. "

*Shrug* I view Blairites as better than Tories but that's not saying much.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"When I youger I didnt really have an interest in politics but as someone said before I've actually got more radical as I've got older (its supposed to be the other way around)

I got started early and haven't shifted much, although I examine my beliefs regularly. I have core values, I suppose. How do I work with those to be a good citizen/ resident?

You live your life with three basic principles

Assist those who are less fortunate

Be tolerant to those with whom you disagree

Always listen to your conscience as that defines and regulates your moral compass.

That maketh the person.

Hmm. I'd argue about tolerance. Depends on the disagreement and how much it matters.

How very dare you disagree..........

Ish. There are degrees.

A few years ago Tony Abbott presented the idea to the Tories and it was seen, by the Tories as "a bit fascist". Now they're talking about it.

It's still rather fascist. No

Then such policies are laid before the people and they must decide if they are to be enacted.

The electorate have the final say and Mr Abbott will one day realise that.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"When I youger I didnt really have an interest in politics but as someone said before I've actually got more radical as I've got older (its supposed to be the other way around)

I got started early and haven't shifted much, although I examine my beliefs regularly. I have core values, I suppose. How do I work with those to be a good citizen/ resident?

You live your life with three basic principles

Assist those who are less fortunate

Be tolerant to those with whom you disagree

Always listen to your conscience as that defines and regulates your moral compass.

That maketh the person.

Hmm. I'd argue about tolerance. Depends on the disagreement and how much it matters.

How very dare you disagree..........

Ish. There are degrees.

A few years ago Tony Abbott presented the idea to the Tories and it was seen, by the Tories as "a bit fascist". Now they're talking about it.

It's still rather fascist. No

Then such policies are laid before the people and they must decide if they are to be enacted.

The electorate have the final say and Mr Abbott will one day realise that. "

I rather fear our electorate.

And the Australian electorate which has made humane treatment of refugees an unwinnable policy position.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"However the generation, distribution and supply of energy, for example, should be entirely the responsibility of the government on behalf of the vox pop?

I would argue that almost nothing in this country would be better if it were nationalised, and almost nothing that's now privatised was better when it was nationalised.

The prices of rail and utilities have risen astronomically.

Even the Tories are renationslising part of the railways as they have been a disaster.

The probation service has been a clusterfuck.

A private company built a hospital here then ran out of money and had to be bailed out by the taxpayer.

I'm genuinely baffled as why its beneficial for the country to have a foreign firm running service when we could run it just as well.

The Private Finance Initiative was conceived and implemented by Mr Blair and a very popular Labour Party!

PF I is generally regarded as economic clusters fuck. "

A very centre right labour party.

My point was when it raised but Corbyn he was slaughtered for it.

Tax was another issue.

When it was raised that people who earn over 80k a year,payable few quid more in tax, there were howls of outrage.

We just seem to live in a very I'm alright Jack society..maybe Thatcher was right .

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By *BC StitchMan
over a year ago

London

"No ones going to admit to being right wing are they ?!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"However the generation, distribution and supply of energy, for example, should be entirely the responsibility of the government on behalf of the vox pop?

I would argue that almost nothing in this country would be better if it were nationalised, and almost nothing that's now privatised was better when it was nationalised.

The prices of rail and utilities have risen astronomically.

Even the Tories are renationslising part of the railways as they have been a disaster.

The probation service has been a clusterfuck.

A private company built a hospital here then ran out of money and had to be bailed out by the taxpayer.

I'm genuinely baffled as why its beneficial for the country to have a foreign firm running service when we could run it just as well.

The Private Finance Initiative was conceived and implemented by Mr Blair and a very popular Labour Party!

PF I is generally regarded as economic clusters fuck.

*Shrug* I view Blairites as better than Tories but that's not saying much."

Put Tony Blair and David Cameron side by side and you could not get a piece of paper between them.

Hence the centrist comments above. We Brits cross the middle of the road white line by tiny amounts!

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Put Tony Blair and David Cameron side by side and you could not get a piece of paper between them.

Hence the centrist comments above. We Brits cross the middle of the road white line by tiny amounts!"

Definitely.

Mostly if I'm voting Labour I'm holding my nose.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"However the generation, distribution and supply of energy, for example, should be entirely the responsibility of the government on behalf of the vox pop?

I would argue that almost nothing in this country would be better if it were nationalised, and almost nothing that's now privatised was better when it was nationalised.

The prices of rail and utilities have risen astronomically.

Even the Tories are renationslising part of the railways as they have been a disaster.

The probation service has been a clusterfuck.

A private company built a hospital here then ran out of money and had to be bailed out by the taxpayer.

I'm genuinely baffled as why its beneficial for the country to have a foreign firm running service when we could run it just as well.

The Private Finance Initiative was conceived and implemented by Mr Blair and a very popular Labour Party!

PF I is generally regarded as economic clusters fuck.

*Shrug* I view Blairites as better than Tories but that's not saying much.

Put Tony Blair and David Cameron side by side and you could not get a piece of paper between them.

Hence the centrist comments above. We Brits cross the middle of the road white line by tiny amounts!"

Even a centre right labour party was better than the utter carnage unleashed by austerity.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"When I youger I didnt really have an interest in politics but as someone said before I've actually got more radical as I've got older (its supposed to be the other way around)

I got started early and haven't shifted much, although I examine my beliefs regularly. I have core values, I suppose. How do I work with those to be a good citizen/ resident?

You live your life with three basic principles

Assist those who are less fortunate

Be tolerant to those with whom you disagree

Always listen to your conscience as that defines and regulates your moral compass.

That maketh the person.

Hmm. I'd argue about tolerance. Depends on the disagreement and how much it matters.

How very dare you disagree..........

Ish. There are degrees.

A few years ago Tony Abbott presented the idea to the Tories and it was seen, by the Tories as "a bit fascist". Now they're talking about it.

It's still rather fascist. No

Then such policies are laid before the people and they must decide if they are to be enacted.

The electorate have the final say and Mr Abbott will one day realise that.

I rather fear our electorate.

And the Australian electorate which has made humane treatment of refugees an unwinnable policy position."

As Churchill was alleged to have said “ the biggest and most powerful argument against the democratic process is to spend at least 10 minutes with the ordinary voter”

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The prices of rail and utilities have risen astronomically.

Even the Tories are renationslising part of the railways as they have been a disaster.

The probation service has been a clusterfuck.

A private company built a hospital here then ran out of money and had to be bailed out by the taxpayer.

I'm genuinely baffled as why its beneficial for the country to have a foreign firm running service when we could run it just as well."

The prices of rail and utilities have risen because there are specific government policies in place to make them rise. Rail subsidies are falling in the belief that rail passengers should shoulder more of the cost of their travel than the tax payer, and energy price rises are part of a policy to get people to use less of it (as well as placing the burden of investment on billpayers instead of the taxpayer).

I disagree with both these policies but they would be happening whether public or private. The "profit" being made off these services would hardly shave anything off most bills - you could argue that it is unethical in theory, but in practice it makes little difference.

But I agree that the part-privatisation of the probation service has been a disaster (and I would say more generally that all justice-related services should be under the strict control of the MoJ) and should be reverted.

Hospitals haven't been privatised - I don't know your specific hospital but due to the tendering process most companies are encouraged to under-price their proposals, then get "bailed out" later when the project is already underway. Again, more of a problem of poor policy and management than that there was a private company involved.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

As Churchill was alleged to have said “ the biggest and most powerful argument against the democratic process is to spend at least 10 minutes with the ordinary voter”"

I think that belies Churchill's prejudices, even if there's truth in it.

I don't think there's a tolerable alternative to universal franchise. We just need to do universal franchise better... somehow (and I don't mean "agreeing with me")

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By *BC StitchMan
over a year ago

London

"Politics creates division.

Silence of terms/ politics creates bad situations it’s best to be transparent and upfront a place/ person with no political settings is well a person with no opinions bound to be misled

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Politics creates division.

Silence of terms/ politics creates bad situations it’s best to be transparent and upfront a place/ person with no political settings is well a person with no opinions bound to be misled "

Yes.

Also, politics exist. It's just some of us are privileged enough to be able to turn our backs. Others are not

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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

Usually centrist/ left, not just because recent behaviours of Government politicians (I know not only Government but they are in the controlling seat), the lies, the nepotism, the inconsistency, the conflicting messages, the "divide and rule" and the "Im alright Jack" attitude.....frankly, the taking the proverbial of the NHS and the electorate... left me feeling very disillusioned.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As Churchill was alleged to have said “ the biggest and most powerful argument against the democratic process is to spend at least 10 minutes with the ordinary voter”

I think that belies Churchill's prejudices, even if there's truth in it.

I don't think there's a tolerable alternative to universal franchise. We just need to do universal franchise better... somehow (and I don't mean "agreeing with me")"

Ms Dress

Would I disagree?

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"The prices of rail and utilities have risen astronomically.

Even the Tories are renationslising part of the railways as they have been a disaster.

The probation service has been a clusterfuck.

A private company built a hospital here then ran out of money and had to be bailed out by the taxpayer.

I'm genuinely baffled as why its beneficial for the country to have a foreign firm running service when we could run it just as well.

Re the railways but the profit would be coming back into this country?

I think it was costed and it was estimated that after 4 years every penny would be going back into the economy.

I genuinely see no sense in that money going to be a foreign company.

Carillion.. the royal..they went bust half way through and had to be bailed out.When it was inspected much of the word had to be redone as it was not fit for purpose.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

As Churchill was alleged to have said “ the biggest and most powerful argument against the democratic process is to spend at least 10 minutes with the ordinary voter”

I think that belies Churchill's prejudices, even if there's truth in it.

I don't think there's a tolerable alternative to universal franchise. We just need to do universal franchise better... somehow (and I don't mean "agreeing with me")

Ms Dress

Would I disagree?"

I suspect not, but I'm just expressing an opinion, not laying down a gauntlet

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By *oncupiscence73Woman
over a year ago

South

Left left left - keeping the red flag flying in deepest bluest south. Apparently the more intelligent you are the more likely you are to be left wing

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Re the railways but the profit would be coming back into this country?

I think it was costed and it was estimated that after 4 years every penny would be going back into the economy.

I genuinely see no sense in that money going to be a foreign company.

Carillion.. the royal..they went bust half way through and had to be bailed out.When it was inspected much of the word had to be redone as it was not fit for purpose. "

What do you mean "coming back into this country"? Are you saying we should implement protectionist investment policies? Those are lose-lose - we benefit from foreign investment more than we lose from them profiting on those investments.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Left left left - keeping the red flag flying in deepest bluest south. Apparently the more intelligent you are the more likely you are to be left wing

There used to be - maybe still is - an indie bookstore near the University of Sydney called "better red than dead"

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

I think there's a serious clash between traditional left wing values and the globalised world we live in. (Intersecting with right wing nationalism)

It's something I need to give more thought to, as someone whose politics originate from a very traditional working class lefty perspective.

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By *BC StitchMan
over a year ago

London

"Politics creates division.

It can do if u let it half my children are right wing and half are left and all my siblings right I never fall out! I can have a healthy discussion i have my views they have theirs x

So agree well put

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"Re the railways but the profit would be coming back into this country?

I think it was costed and it was estimated that after 4 years every penny would be going back into the economy.

I genuinely see no sense in that money going to be a foreign company.

Carillion.. the royal..they went bust half way through and had to be bailed out.When it was inspected much of the word had to be redone as it was not fit for purpose.

I'm not economist but we seem to have sold everything off.

Compare us to Germany who have retained their manufacturing base

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Usually centrist/ left, not just because recent behaviours of Government politicians (I know not only Government but they are in the controlling seat), the lies, the nepotism, the inconsistency, the conflicting messages, the "divide and rule" and the "Im alright Jack" attitude.....frankly, the taking the proverbial of the NHS and the electorate... left me feeling very disillusioned."

Ms A

There was an excellent article in the New Statesman last month which said that faith in government and political parties was at its lowest ebb since the pre war depression. The whole country is disillusioned from the aftermath of expense scandals, Brexit, a December election and now a pandemic. You are not alone!

I would point out as well as the New statesman I take readers wives, razzle and health and efficiency. I don’t want my FAB street cred brought into question!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think there's a serious clash between traditional left wing values and the globalised world we live in. (Intersecting with right wing nationalism)

It's something I need to give more thought to, as someone whose politics originate from a very traditional working class lefty perspective."

Labour haemorrhaged voters from traditionally Socialist (I would argue not really left-wing outside of wealth equality) communities in the UK over the last few elections, mainly to UKIP and then the Tories.

Globalisation (and the failure of governments across the turn of the century to equitably distribute the wealth created by globalisation) is probably the biggest contributor to moving those people to more natural, conservative parties.

..I'm not convinced that matching the right on anti-globalisation rhetoric will win them back, mind (though I accept that it's a strong current in some left-wing circles).

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Ms A

I would point out as well as the New statesman I take readers wives, razzle and health and efficiency. I don’t want my FAB street cred brought into question! "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As Churchill was alleged to have said “ the biggest and most powerful argument against the democratic process is to spend at least 10 minutes with the ordinary voter”

I think that belies Churchill's prejudices, even if there's truth in it.

I don't think there's a tolerable alternative to universal franchise. We just need to do universal franchise better... somehow (and I don't mean "agreeing with me")

Ms Dress

Would I disagree?

I suspect not, but I'm just expressing an opinion, not laying down a gauntlet

Lay down the gauntlet as long as it’s black velvet!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yawn fucking yaaawn

Here’s an idea, if you’re not interested on a thread, maybe don’t post on it."

Love this.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"I think there's a serious clash between traditional left wing values and the globalised world we live in. (Intersecting with right wing nationalism)

It's something I need to give more thought to, as someone whose politics originate from a very traditional working class lefty perspective.

..I'm not convinced that matching the right on anti-globalisation rhetoric will win them back, mind (though I accept that it's a strong current in some left-wing circles)."

They lost the traditional heartlands under new labour.

And they protested by voting for someone even more right wing when presented with a genuine left wing alternative.

I'm going to keep a diplomatic silence.

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By *oncupiscence73Woman
over a year ago

South

"Left left left - keeping the red flag flying in deepest bluest south. Apparently the more intelligent you are the more likely you are to be left wing

There used to be - maybe still is - an indie bookstore near the University of Sydney called "better red than dead"

Love it!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think there's a serious clash between traditional left wing values and the globalised world we live in. (Intersecting with right wing nationalism)

It's something I need to give more thought to, as someone whose politics originate from a very traditional working class lefty perspective.

..I'm not convinced that matching the right on anti-globalisation rhetoric will win them back, mind (though I accept that it's a strong current in some left-wing circles)."

Ding Dong..........the S word. I wondered how long it would be before the S word was used!

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"I think there's a serious clash between traditional left wing values and the globalised world we live in. (Intersecting with right wing nationalism)

It's something I need to give more thought to, as someone whose politics originate from a very traditional working class lefty perspective.

..I'm not convinced that matching the right on anti-globalisation rhetoric will win them back, mind (though I accept that it's a strong current in some left-wing circles)."

Oh no. I'm not thinking nationalism, I don't think that's an answer that makes much sense in the environment we live in.

How do we take those instincts, that energy, and reformulate them into something that's logical and appealing given the situation we face now? I think small world nationalism is probably correctly the domain of some parts of the right these days. For a variety of reasons I empathise with and not.

How do we focus on the community, protecting each other, without turning too far inward and becoming parochial or worse?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Re the railways but the profit would be coming back into this country?

I think it was costed and it was estimated that after 4 years every penny would be going back into the economy.

I genuinely see no sense in that money going to be a foreign company.

Carillion.. the royal..they went bust half way through and had to be bailed out.When it was inspected much of the word had to be redone as it was not fit for purpose.

I'm not economist but we seem to have sold everything off.

Compare us to Germany who have retained their manufacturing base "

I am not sure I follow your comments?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Right wing, Conservative.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

As Churchill was alleged to have said “ the biggest and most powerful argument against the democratic process is to spend at least 10 minutes with the ordinary voter”

I think that belies Churchill's prejudices, even if there's truth in it.

I don't think there's a tolerable alternative to universal franchise. We just need to do universal franchise better... somehow (and I don't mean "agreeing with me")

Ms Dress

Would I disagree?

I suspect not, but I'm just expressing an opinion, not laying down a gauntlet

Lay down the gauntlet as long as it’s black velvet!"

I'm usually inclined to conceal my ferocity

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

All things considered, we're both centre-right.

It's a complex question and hard to answer with just a word. Economically we're definitely right wing. But in most other ways we're traditional libertarians which would have meant we were hippies 40 years ago, but now I guess it means something a bit different. Keen to point out it's not to be confused with liberal ideologies as, for us, the extremes of that movement have become anti-libertarian.

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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago

Dubai & Nottingham

I’m sure I’ll be lynched for this (but I’m off to work anyway so ner!

It’s true, they certainly had there share of flaws but completely outclassed Boris and Corbyn, probably the worst leaders the party’s have ever had. Who’s to blame ? The parties who elected them, who to blame for the state of the parties, the people who join them, the ones that do more than vote, whenever you have an issue with democracy , look in the mirror for the causes!

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"Re the railways but the profit would be coming back into this country?

I think it was costed and it was estimated that after 4 years every penny would be going back into the economy.

I genuinely see no sense in that money going to be a foreign company.

Carillion.. the royal..they went bust half way through and had to be bailed out.When it was inspected much of the word had to be redone as it was not fit for purpose.

I'm not economist but we seem to have sold everything off.

Compare us to Germany who have retained their manufacturing base

I am not sure I follow your comments?

Our economy seems to be totally reliant on the city and the service industry

Germany..it seems..have retained their manufacturing base.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think there's a serious clash between traditional left wing values and the globalised world we live in. (Intersecting with right wing nationalism)

It's something I need to give more thought to, as someone whose politics originate from a very traditional working class lefty perspective.

..I'm not convinced that matching the right on anti-globalisation rhetoric will win them back, mind (though I accept that it's a strong current in some left-wing circles).

Oh no. I'm not thinking nationalism, I don't think that's an answer that makes much sense in the environment we live in.

How do we focus on the community, protecting each other, without turning too far inward and becoming parochial or worse?"

Brexit is the biggest act of parochialism seen in modern history!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm not economist but we seem to have sold everything off.

Compare us to Germany who have retained their manufacturing base "

Germany's manufacturing base is (almost?) entirely private

and they've retained it largely through a strong emphasis on vocational education and large-scale government investment in research and development, allowing their companies to effectively compete on the world stage.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Re the railways but the profit would be coming back into this country?

I think it was costed and it was estimated that after 4 years every penny would be going back into the economy.

I genuinely see no sense in that money going to be a foreign company.

Carillion.. the royal..they went bust half way through and had to be bailed out.When it was inspected much of the word had to be redone as it was not fit for purpose.

I'm not economist but we seem to have sold everything off.

Compare us to Germany who have retained their manufacturing base

I am not sure I follow your comments?

Our economy seems to be totally reliant on the city and the service industry

Germany..it seems..have retained their manufacturing base.

Got it!

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By *uliaChrisCouple
over a year ago

westerham

I think left and right politics is a very outdated concept, or at least not as important as other qualities -

I go with “greater good” ie what policies benefit the most number of people in terms of quality of life (see Holland for a broadly successful example) and

Competence. Principles are great only if you have the competence to implement them.

This view has made voting for anybody very very hard the last few years.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 13/10/20 12:46:05]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"..I'm not convinced that matching the right on anti-globalisation rhetoric will win them back, mind (though I accept that it's a strong current in some left-wing circles)."

Oh no. I'm not thinking nationalism, I don't think that's an answer that makes much sense in the environment we live in.

How do we focus on the community, protecting each other, without turning too far inward and becoming parochial or worse?"

Ultimately I think what we need to do is meet people where their problems are. We're unlikely to convince people on our own grand ideas, just as the right don't put people off by the more monstrous aspects of their beliefs.

For too long we've ignored issues and not met them head-on, and that has allowed the right to rise on them. We need to present our solutions and convince people of them, instead of ignoring them and hoping people come around.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

Whichever your direction... Does anyone else feel that two party politics, between two parties who genuinely have little in the way of genuine passionate values and beliefs that can't be swiftly adjusted by a populist social media outpouring or worse still undemocratic referenda is the way that democratic success lies?

When political debate wasn't constipated by the fear of saying something that may upset anyone.

I'm genuinely not clear what values any political party has other than the snp who have done a stirling job of keeping their single issue front and centre while governing so poorly against no opposition at all.

Politics is in a parlous state and we need something to better engage with quickly.

And ffs why so many munchkin advisors and consultants.?!

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