FabSwingers.com forum: A little knowledge

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

From an article on the BBC website this morning came an interesting quote from a prominent celebrity

"One of our modern evils is that knowledge is so accessible that we tend to have a little learning and not much depth".

With people feeling comfortable to comment on anything and anyone, have we created a generation of armchair experts?

5 minute experts as I used to call them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Quite possibly have. People (big generalisation here) tend to hear about a subject/situation/person and look up just a couple articles. Then there's people whose own bias can often find information that reaffirms their bias and stick to that.

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By *emorefridaCouple
over a year ago

La la land

Totally agree with you there OP. This has completely been highlighted with this covid milarky. I work in medical sciences, so have a fair understanding of the science. But I am not a virologist and I know my limitations. But I have people who try telling me some weird arse shit they've read on line. And they know more than the world experts.

Too much knowledge can be a dangerous thing. And I think some have lost the ability to know the limitations of their knowledge and intelligence.

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By *eliWoman
over a year ago

I think so. Have a brief read of the virus forum or when a thread pops up about race or any slightly controversial issue - like the poster said above there's a confirmation bias that comes to play and people do think with a quick Google that they know everything. I also think that there's an unwillingness to listen to others, to consider alternative points of view because they know best - that's where the ad hominem attacks come in.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Totally agree with you there OP. This has completely been highlighted with this covid milarky. I work in medical sciences, so have a fair understanding of the science. But I am not a virologist and I know my limitations. But I have people who try telling me some weird arse shit they've read on line. And they know more than the world experts.

Too much knowledge can be a dangerous thing. And I think some have lost the ability to know the limitations of their knowledge and intelligence. "

Absolutely. I'm absolutely nothing in science and

I know enough to usually work out who to listen to and if someone sounds trustworthy or not. My limitations are pretty extraordinary.

But knowing what I don't know and what I'm not capable of getting my head around is just as important, lest I end up being an armchair expert and doing real harm by proclaiming crap

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By *acDreamyMan
over a year ago

Wirral

I just googled this and think you might be wrong!

(joking)

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By *emorefridaCouple
over a year ago

La la land

Too much knowledge can be a dangerous thing. And I think some have lost the ability to know the limitations of their knowledge and intelligence.

Absolutely. I'm absolutely nothing in science and

I know enough to usually work out who to listen to and if someone sounds trustworthy or not. My limitations are pretty extraordinary.

But knowing what I don't know and what I'm not capable of getting my head around is just as important, lest I end up being an armchair expert and doing real harm by proclaiming crap

Exactly we all have limitations we're human, there's only so much one person can know. We are never ever going to know everything about everything. So why pretend that we do?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Too much knowledge can be a dangerous thing. And I think some have lost the ability to know the limitations of their knowledge and intelligence.

Absolutely. I'm absolutely nothing in science and

I know enough to usually work out who to listen to and if someone sounds trustworthy or not. My limitations are pretty extraordinary.

But knowing what I don't know and what I'm not capable of getting my head around is just as important, lest I end up being an armchair expert and doing real harm by proclaiming crap

Exactly we all have limitations we're human, there's only so much one person can know. We are never ever going to know everything about everything. So why pretend that we do? "

and why would anyone want the responsibility of being an expert, knowing they have no depth.

I think swing summed it up...knowing who to listen to, is where its at!

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Too much knowledge can be a dangerous thing. And I think some have lost the ability to know the limitations of their knowledge and intelligence.

Absolutely. I'm absolutely nothing in science and

I know enough to usually work out who to listen to and if someone sounds trustworthy or not. My limitations are pretty extraordinary.

But knowing what I don't know and what I'm not capable of getting my head around is just as important, lest I end up being an armchair expert and doing real harm by proclaiming crap

Exactly we all have limitations we're human, there's only so much one person can know. We are never ever going to know everything about everything. So why pretend that we do? "

I think there's a fear of the unknown. We want easy answers and solutions. Some think they find them or proclaim they have them for disingenuous means.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think so. Have a brief read of the virus forum or when a thread pops up about race or any slightly controversial issue - like the poster said above there's a confirmation bias that comes to play and people do think with a quick Google that they know everything. I also think that there's an unwillingness to listen to others, to consider alternative points of view because they know best - that's where the ad hominem attacks come in. "

People have always had opinions on everything and have always argued/discussed stuff but before the web this would've been limited to a smaller circle of friends/family or writing letters to the newspaper.

I think people have always had a 'little knowledge' without 'depth' and this isn't something the web has created (probably the same argument could be applied to books, newspapers, radio, TV or any other form of 'mass media'). But what the web has done is given a platform for everyone to express their views to the 'world' and to bump up against people with opposing/different views which would have been less common before the web.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

I think there's also a misunderstanding of nuance in discussion. Uncertainty is honest, in a lot of things, a good thing.

I also find myself having very different conversations depending on my audience. When I went into the virus forum (lol) I talked with some certainty a lot of the time because of the level of the discourse. When I'm being told it's just a flu, well, I do know much more and I can say it's a different form of virus. I know my limitations and frame my arguments accordingly, but I know I'm right.

When I discuss it with people with more of a clue than me, or who I know will deal well with my guesses on the topic, my tone changes

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When I discuss it with people with more of a clue than me, or who I know will deal well with my guesses on the topic, my tone changes "

And tone is what the web lacks. Emojis and acronyms can only take you so far when everything is in text. Discussing/arguing face to face is a different beast (tone and body language) and you can tell when to back off or stop talking about something before it goes much further or if the other person is joking or being sarcastic.

There are not so many cues on the web to leave a discussion alone which is why so many can end up in 'flame wars'. And then there's the 'trick' (trolling) of throwing in comments to elicit an emotional response to tip discussions over the edge - something which is less likely to happen face to face because of the possibility of physical violence.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Too much knowledge can be a dangerous thing. And I think some have lost the ability to know the limitations of their knowledge and intelligence.

Absolutely. I'm absolutely nothing in science and

I know enough to usually work out who to listen to and if someone sounds trustworthy or not. My limitations are pretty extraordinary.

But knowing what I don't know and what I'm not capable of getting my head around is just as important, lest I end up being an armchair expert and doing real harm by proclaiming crap

Exactly we all have limitations we're human, there's only so much one person can know. We are never ever going to know everything about everything. So why pretend that we do?

I think there's a fear of the unknown. We want easy answers and solutions. Some think they find them or proclaim they have them for disingenuous means. "

Though sometimes admitting you don't know is liberating! Well in my experience it is.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When I discuss it with people with more of a clue than me, or who I know will deal well with my guesses on the topic, my tone changes

This

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

When I discuss it with people with more of a clue than me, or who I know will deal well with my guesses on the topic, my tone changes

I don't mean vocal intonation. I mean filler words, adding uncertainty to what I'm saying. (well unless Covid is a flu. Orthomyxoviridae and corona viruses are different families, cool cool

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Too much knowledge can be a dangerous thing. And I think some have lost the ability to know the limitations of their knowledge and intelligence.

Absolutely. I'm absolutely nothing in science and

I know enough to usually work out who to listen to and if someone sounds trustworthy or not. My limitations are pretty extraordinary.

But knowing what I don't know and what I'm not capable of getting my head around is just as important, lest I end up being an armchair expert and doing real harm by proclaiming crap

Exactly we all have limitations we're human, there's only so much one person can know. We are never ever going to know everything about everything. So why pretend that we do?

I think there's a fear of the unknown. We want easy answers and solutions. Some think they find them or proclaim they have them for disingenuous means.

Though sometimes admitting you don't know is liberating! Well in my experience it is."

The more I know the more I realise I don't know.

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By *emorefridaCouple
over a year ago

La la land

Too much knowledge can be a dangerous thing. And I think some have lost the ability to know the limitations of their knowledge and intelligence.

Absolutely. I'm absolutely nothing in science and

I know enough to usually work out who to listen to and if someone sounds trustworthy or not. My limitations are pretty extraordinary.

But knowing what I don't know and what I'm not capable of getting my head around is just as important, lest I end up being an armchair expert and doing real harm by proclaiming crap

Exactly we all have limitations we're human, there's only so much one person can know. We are never ever going to know everything about everything. So why pretend that we do?

I think there's a fear of the unknown. We want easy answers and solutions. Some think they find them or proclaim they have them for disingenuous means.

Though sometimes admitting you don't know is liberating! Well in my experience it is."

That's the thing, in my line of work of I knew the answer I wouldn't be doing it. I can because of my learning and experience hypothesize what the answer is but I don't know. Sometimes I'm right, sometimes I'm utterly wrong and sometimes I'm wrong but it leads to something really exciting. Openness to bring wrong is no bad thing

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When I discuss it with people with more of a clue than me, or who I know will deal well with my guesses on the topic, my tone changes

I don't mean vocal intonation. I mean filler words, adding uncertainty to what I'm saying. (well unless Covid is a flu. Orthomyxoviridae and corona viruses are different families, cool cool

And that is the uncertainty with the web - especially in English where one word can have multiple meanings. Misunderstandings are more common and two people can read the same sentence but have two different interpretations. It's not so much having a 'little knowledge' but how you convey it in text.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

When I discuss it with people with more of a clue than me, or who I know will deal well with my guesses on the topic, my tone changes

I don't mean vocal intonation. I mean filler words, adding uncertainty to what I'm saying. (well unless Covid is a flu. Orthomyxoviridae and corona viruses are different families, cool cool

I think reading and misreading tone in text is much less of a problem than the issues in the OP. Which are more along the lines of being unwilling or unable (and not taught) to filter material for reliability, bias, strength of argument, etc.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Knowledge doesn't typically come from 1 sitting, it's usually acquired over time, building a depth of understanding. Few would perceive themselves as having nothing more to learn or research. There are benefits that come from an educated, informed population rather than knowledge being understood as belonging in silos of elite groups.

The issue of armchair experts isn't new, we must all have listened to the narrow bigots who have an opinion on everything, with perhaps a sliver of knowledge, who drone on with their monologue s in the pub, cafe etc. They're painful to hear.

The Internet just provides an easy access forum for them to spread their imposed viewpoints, with minimal checks. The same conduit allows for the spread of hate and personal attacks. Thankfully we each largely have some choice and control over what we engage with. If we learn and master how to evaluate and be selective in our choices, they're great skills.

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By *onty1971Man
over a year ago

London St Helier Trier

I think our Confirmation Bias is a factor here and our Sub Conscious (that alone makes 45%) of our decisions. Combined these two will limit discussion or ability to listen to opposing viewpoints.

Shame really. Discussions can be so interesting when we are open.

In my early 20's I had the luck to have a monthly dinner where I had to argue for an opinion that was contrary to my own. I then wished I had joined the Debating society at Uni where this was normal.

Have fun disagreeing with me

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"I think there's also a misunderstanding of nuance in discussion. Uncertainty is honest, in a lot of things, a good thing.

When I discuss it with people with more of a clue than me, or who I know will deal well with my guesses on the topic, my tone changes "

I like this thread.

I think there is more to it. I think in many cases learning how to learn is not being taught and exercised. Reading and watching content you agree with or from a personality you warm to gives a very one dimensional and limited view. Engaging with content and individuals who you don't agree with, challenges and informs and is essential. There seems a lack of education and / or ability to distinguish between what is a legitimate source of facts and a pretty infotainment article which is legitimised because it looks professional and is accredited to a self proclaimed PhD. The public get what the public want. And The issue with Google or YouTube learning is it is pretty much all "byte size"..it took little effort to produce and even less effort to find and read. Because people only have the appetite to read 3 paragraphs or watch a 90 second video. You only have to look at profiles on this site that people don't feel inclined to read.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

I like this thread.

Absolutely. Critical thinking is a skill I don't think most have.

A silly example of my filtering process, a few months ago now.

A doctor (real doctor, showed the degrees etc) had some compelling videos on YouTube about what Covid-19 does and how it kills people. I watched and subscribed

Over time... I began to have niggling doubt about things he was saying, but couldn't put my finger on it. I'm no scientist or doctor. But I've had extensive critical thinking training and I knew that what was being engaged.

One day he answered a viewer question. About a medical condition *I have*. It's not common, but it's not rare. He should know better. He got the basics so spectacularly wrong that I switched off immediately and unsubscribed. He was not engaging within what he knew as though he were an expert. (And it's one thing to say, this is outside my area, or, I'm not familiar with that. This was something that most allied health professionals I've come across would have corrected this doctor on)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When I discuss it with people with more of a clue than me, or who I know will deal well with my guesses on the topic, my tone changes

I don't mean vocal intonation. I mean filler words, adding uncertainty to what I'm saying. (well unless Covid is a flu. Orthomyxoviridae and corona viruses are different families, cool cool

Critical thinking (which some people have argued should be taught more in schools).

But it isn't exclusive to the web nor a new problem. There are already phrases for this 'armchair general', 'backseat driver', 'barroom philosopher'.

And my own biases have come into play in this thread in trying to 'steer' it into a discussion of form vs. content because 'style' interests me more than the actual 'content'.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Of course. I don't give a toss about style. I think content saves and destroys lives, on a big enough scale. Style can be a hint in terms of engaging critical thinking. But my message in my community work that "the virus is circulating at extremely high levels at the moment, you know you're at risk, we need you to stay at home" is functionally identical to "dude! Pandemic's a clusterfuck. You're fucking staying at home" which is how I can talk to friends.

I'm not interested in discussing style.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I just googled this and think you might be wrong!

(joking)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've nothing against the internet - we wouldn't be on here otherwise - but there are so many more sources of information we tend to gravitate towards the stuff that agrees with us.

We often get more discussion and less information though, as for example over when President Trump was last tested negative for Covid and what his current true condition is.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" From an article on the BBC website this morning came an interesting quote from a prominent celebrity

"One of our modern evils is that knowledge is so accessible that we tend to have a little learning and not much depth".

With people feeling comfortable to comment on anything and anyone, have we created a generation of armchair experts?

5 minute experts as I used to call them."

Completely agree.

The internet was a much better place anyway before every cunt with a smartphone was on it.

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By *hrista BellendWoman
over a year ago

surrounded by twinkly lights

Its easy to see the armchair experts as they are not willing to debate about their subject, they cannot see another view and accept it as an opinion, its their way or the highway

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