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"https://youtu.be/hyHR-ZkZxPU "heart of the matter" don Henley, to forgive and not to forget " I will check it out later. I'm the only one awake! | |||
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"I always forgive as there is no room for hate or bad feelings in my heart. I don't mean making excuses for behaviour, more of a personal let it go. I do choose to never forget and will hold that person at arms length until I can remove them from my life. No second chance, no do over, burn me once and I walk away head held high." Until I can remove them from my life sounds familiar  | |||
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"https://youtu.be/hyHR-ZkZxPU "heart of the matter" don Henley, to forgive and not to forget I will check it out later. I'm the only one awake! " i'll check tomorrow goodnight t-rose | |||
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"I'd you don't forgive op, it eats up up inside, no matter how many times you say I'm ok.... I've recently been trying... mindfullness.... loads of vids on you tube.... i would recommend it... hope this helps my sweet...xx" The thing is I dont feel eaten. I just feel like I put myself on a bit of alert. Somewhere in the back of my brain. It doesnt trouble me daily. Nothing of the sort. I'm just wondering how people who forgive easily do it and trying to learn something  maybe adapt some thinking into my life philosophy? | |||
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"I can forgive but I never forget. I've been known to just cut people off and never see them again " Ditto. I do wonder if I should try different approach though. | |||
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"https://youtu.be/hyHR-ZkZxPU "heart of the matter" don Henley, to forgive and not to forget I will check it out later. I'm the only one awake! i'll check tomorrow goodnight t-rose" Goodnight Bill thanks for the link | |||
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"I always forgive as there is no room for hate or bad feelings in my heart. I don't mean making excuses for behaviour, more of a personal let it go. I do choose to never forget and will hold that person at arms length until I can remove them from my life. No second chance, no do over, burn me once and I walk away head held high." The first part of this, I am like, only with my ex I made excuses. I was unhappy in my marriage, became somebody I didn't like but ultimately in the end I finally walked away. I still find that now I still make excuses for him! The relationship I have now with my man is completely different. If he were to hurt me though I genuinely have no idea what I'd do! Xx | |||
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"I'd you don't forgive op, it eats up up inside, no matter how many times you say I'm ok.... I've recently been trying... mindfullness.... loads of vids on you tube.... i would recommend it... hope this helps my sweet...xx"  | |||
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"I always forgive as there is no room for hate or bad feelings in my heart. I don't mean making excuses for behaviour, more of a personal let it go. I do choose to never forget and will hold that person at arms length until I can remove them from my life. No second chance, no do over, burn me once and I walk away head held high. The first part of this, I am like, only with my ex I made excuses. I was unhappy in my marriage, became somebody I didn't like but ultimately in the end I finally walked away. I still find that now I still make excuses for him! The relationship I have now with my man is completely different. If he were to hurt me though I genuinely have no idea what I'd do! Xx" I am glad you found the strength to leave and move on. Other one sounded very toxic for you x | |||
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"I always forgive as there is no room for hate or bad feelings in my heart. I don't mean making excuses for behaviour, more of a personal let it go. I do choose to never forget and will hold that person at arms length until I can remove them from my life. No second chance, no do over, burn me once and I walk away head held high. The first part of this, I am like, only with my ex I made excuses. I was unhappy in my marriage, became somebody I didn't like but ultimately in the end I finally walked away. I still find that now I still make excuses for him! The relationship I have now with my man is completely different. If he were to hurt me though I genuinely have no idea what I'd do! Xx I am glad you found the strength to leave and move on. Other one sounded very toxic for you x" Thank you, it definitely was toxic. This new one is a completely different ballgame! Xx | |||
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"If I can understand the "why" someone has done something then I'm more likely to forgive. I don't forget tho." Thats exactly what I was about to say. I need to understand the *why* and have them acknowledge their actions and the consequences. | |||
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"I can't think of any examples where I have forgiven someone. It's all bottled up with every other bad feeling I have. In fact I had to Google what it means- "Psychologists generally define forgiveness as a conscious, deliberate decision to release feelings of resentment or vengeance toward a person or group who has harmed you, regardless of whether they actually deserve your forgiveness." No I don't do that." In that case neither do I. I didn't realise it was a conscious decision, I thought it qas something that evolved naturally. Maybe I don't forgive then, maybe mine is more acceptance that they did and once I've gained understanding that's when my brain decides it can box it up | |||
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"I can't think of any examples where I have forgiven someone. It's all bottled up with every other bad feeling I have. In fact I had to Google what it means- "Psychologists generally define forgiveness as a conscious, deliberate decision to release feelings of resentment or vengeance toward a person or group who has harmed you, regardless of whether they actually deserve your forgiveness." No I don't do that. In that case neither do I. I didn't realise it was a conscious decision, I thought it qas something that evolved naturally. Maybe I don't forgive then, maybe mine is more acceptance that they did and once I've gained understanding that's when my brain decides it can box it up " It might just be a bad example I picked. There's other examples that may fit better. Sounds like you can do this. "Forgiveness is for our own growth and happiness. When we hold on to hurt, pain, resentment, and anger it harms us far more than it harms the offender. Forgiveness frees us to live in the present. ... Our anger, regret, hatred, or resentment towards someone means that we are giving up our power to that person." | |||
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"Heavy topic eh? Have you got it in you to forgive others their wrongdoings? Is forgiveness as empowering as some describe it? If someone forgave you something huge, how did it feel? I'm not sure if I want to be that "better person" more than I want to make sure my self protection is is working like a German football team. And if you dont forgive someone in a way you always hold that over them? But on the other side doesnt it hang over your mind too? Or maybe like me you just have a special cabinet of tiny mind drawers where you shove these undesirable thoughts most of the time and if they try to get out.. you give them good rationalizing talking through. Over to you. " Unfortunately life's not all ones and zeros. It all depends on what the wrongdoings are some things I can forgive other things I might not want to forgive. | |||
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"I can forgive but I never forget. I've been known to just cut people off and never see them again " I'm the same. It obviously depends on what I'm forgiving but I know now that some people are better off out of your life because they will probably wrong you over and over again. It's better to forgive them and let go of any anger or resentment because that will hurt you. Then choose whether you still want them in your life. | |||
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"Some things are unforgivable. It doesn't mean you need to let the actions or person consume your mind or life. It just means that you acknowledge that for you forgiveness is not possible and you get on with your life without that person affecting it further. " Yes, I am like this with my ex. What he did to me and my children was something we have to live with forever but he’s no longer in our lives or thoughts. Generally I can forgive, but I don’t forget x | |||
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"Do you think forgiveness is over rated or misunderstood? Can indifference, acceptance or recovery be mistaken for forgiveness?" That's what I think I was trying to say earlier. I don't actually think my stuff is forgiveness. Acceptance and recovery yes, hopefully a level of understanding too, but forgiveness maybe not. Probably more just a case of "don't fuck with me and I won't fuck with you, but I'll tell anyone the truth about what happened" | |||
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"Do you think forgiveness is over rated or misunderstood? Can indifference, acceptance or recovery be mistaken for forgiveness? That's what I think I was trying to say earlier. I don't actually think my stuff is forgiveness. Acceptance and recovery yes, hopefully a level of understanding too, but forgiveness maybe not. Probably more just a case of "don't fuck with me and I won't fuck with you, but I'll tell anyone the truth about what happened" " I'm not sure I know what forgiveness is actually. I don't think it's necessary to forgive to move forward. There are 2 people in my past I will never speak to again. What they did is to my mind unforgiveable, they have both had an effect on my life in different ways, influenced relationships personal and professional but I learned, moved on, I'm the least bitter person I know but they're both dead to me. | |||
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"Heavy topic eh? Have you got it in you to forgive others their wrongdoings? Is forgiveness as empowering as some describe it? If someone forgave you something huge, how did it feel? I'm not sure if I want to be that "better person" more than I want to make sure my self protection is is working like a German football team. And if you dont forgive someone in a way you always hold that over them? But on the other side doesnt it hang over your mind too? Or maybe like me you just have a special cabinet of tiny mind drawers where you shove these undesirable thoughts most of the time and if they try to get out.. you give them good rationalizing talking through. Over to you. " I have the capacity to forgive, that doesn't mean that things are forgotten, or that still can't remember the pain at the time. Forgiving others doesn't mean you have one up on them, and nor does it mean it hangs in my mind. Quite the opposite, when thoughts do come to my mind of past trauma or hurt, I consider why thought has come to mind and let it pass by. Rationalising the situation is needed in order to forgive, conversation with person who's done wrong is always better, if able to do so, as will be difficult conversations. The times I've been forgiven for wrong doings, I've found to be quite overwhelming, I also find it harder to forgive myself than forgiving others. I don't see empathy, kindness, forgiveness as weakness either, although many seem to see it as this. | |||
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"I can forgive but I never forget. I've been known to just cut people off and never see them again " This
To forgive is with intention of reconnecting. Depending on who/what they done, it's just a case of goodbye have a nice life without me! | |||
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"Some things are unforgivable. It doesn't mean you need to let the actions or person consume your mind or life. It just means that you acknowledge that for you forgiveness is not possible and you get on with your life without that person affecting it further. " I can't forgive or forget. It's been nearly 2 years and it's always just below the surface. On the outside I smile and I'm friendly. My insides are ripped apart but they don't need to know that. | |||
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"This thread has confused me more than I thought. I don't think I know was forgiveness means. Isn't it a culmination of other things? A group of feelings and actions all mixed together. To me, to true forgiveness is to say you're ok with something and mean it. To be able to go back to where you were before the wrongdoing and not have it sting. Or for me maybe when I can see the intent from the person who wronged you wasn't from a malicious place? " "True forgiveness" to me is being able to move on from something completely and restore any balance that may have been there before - it doesn't necessarily mean forgetting the action, but accepting it happened and moving on from it to the point an element of "normality" is in place. | |||
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"I go over this question a lot and for me the answer is no. There are a couple of people that I have not forgiven for their actions and I don’t think I ever will. I’m very indifferent about them. I don’t think about them. I don’t wish them harm. I just prefer not to recognise their existence. That works for me." This for me too I think. Depends what it is but no I don’t really forgive. I just remove from my life. It doesn’t eat up at me at all really. Life’s too short for negative or nasty people in it. | |||
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"This thread has confused me more than I thought. I don't think I know was forgiveness means. Isn't it a culmination of other things? A group of feelings and actions all mixed together. To me, to true forgiveness is to say you're ok with something and mean it. To be able to go back to where you were before the wrongdoing and not have it sting. Or for me maybe when I can see the intent from the person who wronged you wasn't from a malicious place? "True forgiveness" to me is being able to move on from something completely and restore any balance that may have been there before - it doesn't necessarily mean forgetting the action, but accepting it happened and moving on from it to the point an element of "normality" is in place." I'm shaking my head in a confused way here. Is it? Or is that just acceptance? No grudges held, it's just "matter of fact" | |||
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"This thread has confused me more than I thought. I don't think I know was forgiveness means. Isn't it a culmination of other things? A group of feelings and actions all mixed together. To me, to true forgiveness is to say you're ok with something and mean it. To be able to go back to where you were before the wrongdoing and not have it sting. Or for me maybe when I can see the intent from the person who wronged you wasn't from a malicious place? "True forgiveness" to me is being able to move on from something completely and restore any balance that may have been there before - it doesn't necessarily mean forgetting the action, but accepting it happened and moving on from it to the point an element of "normality" is in place. I'm shaking my head in a confused way here. Is it? Or is that just acceptance? No grudges held, it's just "matter of fact" " Maybe it's one of those multi-dimensional things that can mean different things to different people - but personally I'd say that if it had become "matter of fact" and "accepted" that an element of forgiveness was there to allow that state to happen. It's when you can't let something go, or become "matter of fact" that forgiveness hasn't or won't happen. | |||
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"This thread has confused me more than I thought. I don't think I know was forgiveness means. Isn't it a culmination of other things? A group of feelings and actions all mixed together. To me, to true forgiveness is to say you're ok with something and mean it. To be able to go back to where you were before the wrongdoing and not have it sting. Or for me maybe when I can see the intent from the person who wronged you wasn't from a malicious place? " As I said earlier I don't know what it means either. You can't go back to how things were in some cases. I can't. In all honesty I don't want to forgive my first husband he was a pathological liar and addicted gambler. I don't want to forgive the woman I worked with who made up the most dreadful things about me (and others) which could have cost me my career had natural justice not prevailed. I don't want to forgive them because I'm completely indifferent to them. Would I throw a bucket of water on them if they were on fire? Of course I would, I'm still the person I was before I knew them. | |||
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"Also I think there's levels of forgiveness. Like if I understand why someone has done what they've done I can forgive the action, but I may not be able to forgive the impact it has had one me. " That makes sense to me. | |||
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" Maybe it's one of those multi-dimensional things that can mean different things to different people - but personally I'd say that if it had become "matter of fact" and "accepted" that an element of forgiveness was there to allow that state to happen. It's when you can't let something go, or become "matter of fact" that forgiveness hasn't or won't happen." This
Also, some people that I have forgiven, aren't in my life anymore. I don't think that forgiving means automatically that person(s) stay part of your life. | |||
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"Ultimately some things are just unforgivable no matter how you look at them, or even how well intentioned the person that took the action thought they were being " Yep. I wasn't cheated on or anything like that. My 'thing' that happened is probably considered irrelevant or not that big a deal to many people. Perhaps their intent really was 'for the best' in their eyes. But it's destroyed me. | |||
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"I'm back again with more forgiveness thinkings I don't think not forgiving others is bad for us in general. What DOES eat you up and rot us from the core outwards is not forgiving ourselves. We can't cut ourselves out of our own lives. So actually I think the 2 are intertwined. I can't forgive the damage done but do forgive the action, yet I can't forgive myself for being too trusting/lovestruck etc even tho I understand the why behind my side. It's just boxed up and that's that. A something that happened that's taught me lessons I didn't want to learn." Heck yes  | |||
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"I do forgive, once its done its done, no endlessly going over it but I do have 3 strikes and you re gone rule as my own protection. Problem with forgiving is that those being forgiven rarely learn, they just think ah fk it he won t do anything, all will be well. So after an ex partner shagged everything with a dick, including best friend I had to draw a line and so its a three fault system. I dont give a fourth forgiving. As for someone forgiving me I generally feel foolish and humbled and if I ve hurt them then I will cast judgement and punishment on myself. " Thanks for sharing your story. I am also believer people dont change that much. But their priorities do. Depends much how us there to forgive as well..? | |||
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"If I can understand the "why" someone has done something then I'm more likely to forgive. I don't forget tho." Then you at least give them chance to explain? Something I am not always capable of awarding. | |||
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"I can't think of any examples where I have forgiven someone. It's all bottled up with every other bad feeling I have. In fact I had to Google what it means- "Psychologists generally define forgiveness as a conscious, deliberate decision to release feelings of resentment or vengeance toward a person or group who has harmed you, regardless of whether they actually deserve your forgiveness." No I don't do that." Thanks for googling actually! The regardless bit got me. | |||
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"I can't think of any examples where I have forgiven someone. It's all bottled up with every other bad feeling I have. In fact I had to Google what it means- "Psychologists generally define forgiveness as a conscious, deliberate decision to release feelings of resentment or vengeance toward a person or group who has harmed you, regardless of whether they actually deserve your forgiveness." No I don't do that. In that case neither do I. I didn't realise it was a conscious decision, I thought it qas something that evolved naturally. Maybe I don't forgive then, maybe mine is more acceptance that they did and once I've gained understanding that's when my brain decides it can box it up " So confusing, right? Hence I used that metaphor for caging them in tiny drawers. Boxed up will do too. | |||
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"It’s easy to say but life is too short, and with experience you learn to forgive and move on. If the forgiveness even means walking away, then do it. Hope I’ve understood your question correctly." The more chances we get to forgive the easier it becomes? I am not sure. Just referring to experience.. | |||
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"I can't think of any examples where I have forgiven someone. It's all bottled up with every other bad feeling I have. In fact I had to Google what it means- "Psychologists generally define forgiveness as a conscious, deliberate decision to release feelings of resentment or vengeance toward a person or group who has harmed you, regardless of whether they actually deserve your forgiveness." No I don't do that. In that case neither do I. I didn't realise it was a conscious decision, I thought it qas something that evolved naturally. Maybe I don't forgive then, maybe mine is more acceptance that they did and once I've gained understanding that's when my brain decides it can box it up It might just be a bad example I picked. There's other examples that may fit better. Sounds like you can do this. "Forgiveness is for our own growth and happiness. When we hold on to hurt, pain, resentment, and anger it harms us far more than it harms the offender. Forgiveness frees us to live in the present. ... Our anger, regret, hatred, or resentment towards someone means that we are giving up our power to that person." "We are giving up power by giving our time into it? Or the grudge we hold projects on everything else we do? | |||
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"Heavy topic eh? Have you got it in you to forgive others their wrongdoings? Is forgiveness as empowering as some describe it? If someone forgave you something huge, how did it feel? I'm not sure if I want to be that "better person" more than I want to make sure my self protection is is working like a German football team. And if you dont forgive someone in a way you always hold that over them? But on the other side doesnt it hang over your mind too? Or maybe like me you just have a special cabinet of tiny mind drawers where you shove these undesirable thoughts most of the time and if they try to get out.. you give them good rationalizing talking through. Over to you. Unfortunately life's not all ones and zeros. It all depends on what the wrongdoings are some things I can forgive other things I might not want to forgive. " Of course. We all draw our limits elsewhere.. and maybe its the repetition of the hurt which makes us draw them stronger each time and able to withstand any potential further damage? | |||
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"And further to that people couldn’t understand when I forgave the person who killed my dad and didn’t think he should have gone to prison as it was an accident. But to me him going to prison left his children without a dad too. So yeah I forgive a lot " You have such a big heart V. X
I am sorry about your Dad. X | |||
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"I can forgive but I never forget. I've been known to just cut people off and never see them again I'm the same. It obviously depends on what I'm forgiving but I know now that some people are better off out of your life because they will probably wrong you over and over again. It's better to forgive them and let go of any anger or resentment because that will hurt you. Then choose whether you still want them in your life." But do you need to forgive and make up.. ? I know we can mean different scenarios. I just dont feel like forgiveness needs to warrant a blank card for someone again? | |||
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"Some things are unforgivable. It doesn't mean you need to let the actions or person consume your mind or life. It just means that you acknowledge that for you forgiveness is not possible and you get on with your life without that person affecting it further. " Accepting it wouldnt be honest act of forgiving as that crossed our lines? Rather than exercising forgiveness in your mind without faith it will change anything long term? | |||
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"Whilst I can forgive certain things, I never forget them. Which is usually the reason I walk away." It's too much to hold on to and yet at the same time continue believing it wont happen again. | |||
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"Some things are unforgivable. It doesn't mean you need to let the actions or person consume your mind or life. It just means that you acknowledge that for you forgiveness is not possible and you get on with your life without that person affecting it further. Yes, I am like this with my ex. What he did to me and my children was something we have to live with forever but he’s no longer in our lives or thoughts. Generally I can forgive, but I don’t forget x " you took control of your feelings.. that's some power.. | |||
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"Yes, yes I'm back again. In my mind.... Forgiveness isn't a conscious decision or an act or a thought. Forgiveness to me is a belief. No matter how much you may WANT to forgive someone, if you don't believe it it's worthless." I just replied to someone with similar reflection. However.. I believe to forgive we cant just wait for time to do its work. I believe there is some conscious effort to it. Rationalizing what happened and taking these thoughts to your mind court. Deciding which are helpful and which are a ballast.. | |||
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"I think a lot of people feel that not forgiving equals bearing a grudge or being eaten up with someone else's actions. For me (and me alone) I can move on without bearing a grudge or being bitter without forgiving people. I don't need to forgive on certain circumstances and I don't actually want to. If other people need to forgive to move on with their life that's what they need to do but I don't " Yep. Abusive ex for example. I don’t sit here consumed by the wrongs of the past. It happened and it shouldn't have. Will not forgiving him impact me? No. I barely give the cunt any thought. When I talk about it I talk candidly but I'm not sitting here all crying and sad feeling sorry fir myself, I talk about the facts as if I was talking about plucking my eyebrows or some shit. Yes it can get emotive but again not because I'm angry at him or myself, but usually because other people are dismissive of the consequences of their own actions. It's me trying to save someone else going through what I went through. See, went. Past tense. | |||
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"I think a lot of people feel that not forgiving equals bearing a grudge or being eaten up with someone else's actions. For me (and me alone) I can move on without bearing a grudge or being bitter without forgiving people. I don't need to forgive on certain circumstances and I don't actually want to. If other people need to forgive to move on with their life that's what they need to do but I don't Yep. Abusive ex for example. I don’t sit here consumed by the wrongs of the past. It happened and it shouldn't have. Will not forgiving him impact me? No. I barely give the cunt any thought. When I talk about it I talk candidly but I'm not sitting here all crying and sad feeling sorry fir myself, I talk about the facts as if I was talking about plucking my eyebrows or some shit. Yes it can get emotive but again not because I'm angry at him or myself, but usually because other people are dismissive of the consequences of their own actions. It's me trying to save someone else going through what I went through. See, went. Past tense." Yeah. I rarely talk about certain things in my past not because it's too painful but because there's no need unless I think it will contribute to a discussion or as you say, it'll help someone else. Another reason is because I don't want or need sympathy and I don't want people to think of me as a victim of anything, I'm also very aware that there are people who just love a project and the slightest hint of "a past" they'll be laying out the counselling couch and looking all concerned. I don't swear on the Internet but "fuck off" is what I say. So,anyway, forgiveness. I can do it but i don't need to I'm not Jesús | |||
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"I think a lot of people feel that not forgiving equals bearing a grudge or being eaten up with someone else's actions. For me (and me alone) I can move on without bearing a grudge or being bitter without forgiving people. I don't need to forgive on certain circumstances and I don't actually want to. If other people need to forgive to move on with their life that's what they need to do but I don't Yep. Abusive ex for example. I don’t sit here consumed by the wrongs of the past. It happened and it shouldn't have. Will not forgiving him impact me? No. I barely give the cunt any thought. When I talk about it I talk candidly but I'm not sitting here all crying and sad feeling sorry fir myself, I talk about the facts as if I was talking about plucking my eyebrows or some shit. Yes it can get emotive but again not because I'm angry at him or myself, but usually because other people are dismissive of the consequences of their own actions. It's me trying to save someone else going through what I went through. See, went. Past tense. Yeah. I rarely talk about certain things in my past not because it's too painful but because there's no need unless I think it will contribute to a discussion or as you say, it'll help someone else. Another reason is because I don't want or need sympathy and I don't want people to think of me as a victim of anything, I'm also very aware that there are people who just love a project and the slightest hint of "a past" they'll be laying out the counselling couch and looking all concerned. I don't swear on the Internet but "fuck off" is what I say. So,anyway, forgiveness. I can do it but i don't need to I'm not Jesús " sounds good , if agree most of that. All I would say is that is there a small risk you become cynical, less joyful or judge others more harshly, trust less because you are holding on to wrings of others. For me, and it’s not religious at all, full forgiveness is liberating , I would happily buy my abusive ex food I’d she was hungry and I could afford it , in the hope she would become a better person and make the world better - the hate has fully gone. | |||
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"I think a lot of people feel that not forgiving equals bearing a grudge or being eaten up with someone else's actions. For me (and me alone) I can move on without bearing a grudge or being bitter without forgiving people. I don't need to forgive on certain circumstances and I don't actually want to. If other people need to forgive to move on with their life that's what they need to do but I don't Yep. Abusive ex for example. I don’t sit here consumed by the wrongs of the past. It happened and it shouldn't have. Will not forgiving him impact me? No. I barely give the cunt any thought. When I talk about it I talk candidly but I'm not sitting here all crying and sad feeling sorry fir myself, I talk about the facts as if I was talking about plucking my eyebrows or some shit. Yes it can get emotive but again not because I'm angry at him or myself, but usually because other people are dismissive of the consequences of their own actions. It's me trying to save someone else going through what I went through. See, went. Past tense. Yeah. I rarely talk about certain things in my past not because it's too painful but because there's no need unless I think it will contribute to a discussion or as you say, it'll help someone else. Another reason is because I don't want or need sympathy and I don't want people to think of me as a victim of anything, I'm also very aware that there are people who just love a project and the slightest hint of "a past" they'll be laying out the counselling couch and looking all concerned. I don't swear on the Internet but "fuck off" is what I say. So,anyway, forgiveness. I can do it but i don't need to I'm not Jesús sounds good , if agree most of that. All I would say is that is there a small risk you become cynical, less joyful or judge others more harshly, trust less because you are holding on to wrings of others. For me, and it’s not religious at all, full forgiveness is liberating , I would happily buy my abusive ex food I’d she was hungry and I could afford it , in the hope she would become a better person and make the world better - the hate has fully gone."I think we just see it differently. A different perception of what it means to forgive. I suppose in my head and heart it's being able to say to the person "it's OK that that happened" Well no, abuse is not ok and never will be ok. It doesn't mean I wish him dead, I'm indifferent to him. He was in my life and now he isn’t. Would I offer my condolences if I saw him in the street regarding his mother who passed earlier this year, yes. I'll never be able to say "it's cool, I get it" and think his behaviour was ok tho. | |||
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"I think a lot of people feel that not forgiving equals bearing a grudge or being eaten up with someone else's actions. For me (and me alone) I can move on without bearing a grudge or being bitter without forgiving people. I don't need to forgive on certain circumstances and I don't actually want to. If other people need to forgive to move on with their life that's what they need to do but I don't Yep. Abusive ex for example. I don’t sit here consumed by the wrongs of the past. It happened and it shouldn't have. Will not forgiving him impact me? No. I barely give the cunt any thought. When I talk about it I talk candidly but I'm not sitting here all crying and sad feeling sorry fir myself, I talk about the facts as if I was talking about plucking my eyebrows or some shit. Yes it can get emotive but again not because I'm angry at him or myself, but usually because other people are dismissive of the consequences of their own actions. It's me trying to save someone else going through what I went through. See, went. Past tense. Yeah. I rarely talk about certain things in my past not because it's too painful but because there's no need unless I think it will contribute to a discussion or as you say, it'll help someone else. Another reason is because I don't want or need sympathy and I don't want people to think of me as a victim of anything, I'm also very aware that there are people who just love a project and the slightest hint of "a past" they'll be laying out the counselling couch and looking all concerned. I don't swear on the Internet but "fuck off" is what I say. So,anyway, forgiveness. I can do it but i don't need to I'm not Jesús sounds good , if agree most of that. All I would say is that is there a small risk you become cynical, less joyful or judge others more harshly, trust less because you are holding on to wrings of others. For me, and it’s not religious at all, full forgiveness is liberating , I would happily buy my abusive ex food I’d she was hungry and I could afford it , in the hope she would become a better person and make the world better - the hate has fully gone."I'm all of those things. Bitter, cynical, don't trust, eaten up, consumed, bearing a grudge. I'm like a dark miserable black hole.  | |||
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"I think a lot of people feel that not forgiving equals bearing a grudge or being eaten up with someone else's actions. For me (and me alone) I can move on without bearing a grudge or being bitter without forgiving people. I don't need to forgive on certain circumstances and I don't actually want to. If other people need to forgive to move on with their life that's what they need to do but I don't Yep. Abusive ex for example. I don’t sit here consumed by the wrongs of the past. It happened and it shouldn't have. Will not forgiving him impact me? No. I barely give the cunt any thought. When I talk about it I talk candidly but I'm not sitting here all crying and sad feeling sorry fir myself, I talk about the facts as if I was talking about plucking my eyebrows or some shit. Yes it can get emotive but again not because I'm angry at him or myself, but usually because other people are dismissive of the consequences of their own actions. It's me trying to save someone else going through what I went through. See, went. Past tense. Yeah. I rarely talk about certain things in my past not because it's too painful but because there's no need unless I think it will contribute to a discussion or as you say, it'll help someone else. Another reason is because I don't want or need sympathy and I don't want people to think of me as a victim of anything, I'm also very aware that there are people who just love a project and the slightest hint of "a past" they'll be laying out the counselling couch and looking all concerned. I don't swear on the Internet but "fuck off" is what I say. So,anyway, forgiveness. I can do it but i don't need to I'm not Jesús sounds good , if agree most of that. All I would say is that is there a small risk you become cynical, less joyful or judge others more harshly, trust less because you are holding on to wrings of others. For me, and it’s not religious at all, full forgiveness is liberating , I would happily buy my abusive ex food I’d she was hungry and I could afford it , in the hope she would become a better person and make the world better - the hate has fully gone.
I think we just see it differently. A different perception of what it means to forgive.
I suppose in my head and heart it's being able to say to the person "it's OK that that happened"
Well no, abuse is not ok and never will be ok. It doesn't mean I wish him dead, I'm indifferent to him. He was in my life and now he isn’t. Would I offer my condolences if I saw him in the street regarding his mother who passed earlier this year, yes. I'll never be able to say "it's cool, I get it" and think his behaviour was ok tho."I will never be ok with some of the stuff that's happened to me. If forgiveness hinges on me thinking it was OK for someone to kick the shit out of me... yeah, I'm never going to be able to forgive in that case. Forgiveness for me is more as someone else said the lack of resentment or vengeance. I don't ill wish my exes, I genuinely hope their lives improve and they find peace and happiness. I can't find it in me to resent them or resent what they did to me any more, but I'll never think their actions were somehow acceptable. | |||
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"This thread has confused me more than I thought. I don't think I know was forgiveness means. Isn't it a culmination of other things? A group of feelings and actions all mixed together. To me, to true forgiveness is to say you're ok with something and mean it. To be able to go back to where you were before the wrongdoing and not have it sting. Or for me maybe when I can see the intent from the person who wronged you wasn't from a malicious place? " No. I think if the pain of what happened isn’t having a negative effect anymore , if you have chosen not to have feelings of hatred, you’ve chosen to forgive the person, but it doesn’t mean you accept it was ok and it’s still fine to cut them off. In fact they don’t even need to know you’ve forgiven them. You’ve done it to free yourself from pain and move forward, that’s it. | |||
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"I think a lot of people feel that not forgiving equals bearing a grudge or being eaten up with someone else's actions. For me (and me alone) I can move on without bearing a grudge or being bitter without forgiving people. I don't need to forgive on certain circumstances and I don't actually want to. If other people need to forgive to move on with their life that's what they need to do but I don't Yep. Abusive ex for example. I don’t sit here consumed by the wrongs of the past. It happened and it shouldn't have. Will not forgiving him impact me? No. I barely give the cunt any thought. When I talk about it I talk candidly but I'm not sitting here all crying and sad feeling sorry fir myself, I talk about the facts as if I was talking about plucking my eyebrows or some shit. Yes it can get emotive but again not because I'm angry at him or myself, but usually because other people are dismissive of the consequences of their own actions. It's me trying to save someone else going through what I went through. See, went. Past tense. Yeah. I rarely talk about certain things in my past not because it's too painful but because there's no need unless I think it will contribute to a discussion or as you say, it'll help someone else. Another reason is because I don't want or need sympathy and I don't want people to think of me as a victim of anything, I'm also very aware that there are people who just love a project and the slightest hint of "a past" they'll be laying out the counselling couch and looking all concerned. I don't swear on the Internet but "fuck off" is what I say. So,anyway, forgiveness. I can do it but i don't need to I'm not Jesús sounds good , if agree most of that. All I would say is that is there a small risk you become cynical, less joyful or judge others more harshly, trust less because you are holding on to wrings of others. For me, and it’s not religious at all, full forgiveness is liberating , I would happily buy my abusive ex food I’d she was hungry and I could afford it , in the hope she would become a better person and make the world better - the hate has fully gone."I'm cynical by nature and I've said further up I'm not bitter or holding on to the past. I think that forgiveness probably means different things to different people. I also said I'd throw a bucket of water on these people if they were on fire, I just don't need to forgive what to me is unforgivable. | |||
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"I think a lot of people feel that not forgiving equals bearing a grudge or being eaten up with someone else's actions. For me (and me alone) I can move on without bearing a grudge or being bitter without forgiving people. I don't need to forgive on certain circumstances and I don't actually want to. If other people need to forgive to move on with their life that's what they need to do but I don't Yep. Abusive ex for example. I don’t sit here consumed by the wrongs of the past. It happened and it shouldn't have. Will not forgiving him impact me? No. I barely give the cunt any thought. When I talk about it I talk candidly but I'm not sitting here all crying and sad feeling sorry fir myself, I talk about the facts as if I was talking about plucking my eyebrows or some shit. Yes it can get emotive but again not because I'm angry at him or myself, but usually because other people are dismissive of the consequences of their own actions. It's me trying to save someone else going through what I went through. See, went. Past tense. Yeah. I rarely talk about certain things in my past not because it's too painful but because there's no need unless I think it will contribute to a discussion or as you say, it'll help someone else. Another reason is because I don't want or need sympathy and I don't want people to think of me as a victim of anything, I'm also very aware that there are people who just love a project and the slightest hint of "a past" they'll be laying out the counselling couch and looking all concerned. I don't swear on the Internet but "fuck off" is what I say. So,anyway, forgiveness. I can do it but i don't need to I'm not Jesús sounds good , if agree most of that. All I would say is that is there a small risk you become cynical, less joyful or judge others more harshly, trust less because you are holding on to wrings of others. For me, and it’s not religious at all, full forgiveness is liberating , I would happily buy my abusive ex food I’d she was hungry and I could afford it , in the hope she would become a better person and make the world better - the hate has fully gone.
I'm all of those things. Bitter, cynical, don't trust, eaten up, consumed, bearing a grudge. I'm like a dark miserable black hole. "Yeah but you're our dark, miserable, black hole  | |||
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"I try to forgive everything... Otherwise it is a ball of negativity that you hold inside your core. That just doesn't add anything to my life. What I do do, in all these types of situations, is look at myself very hard in the mirror, to understand what was my part in this, or how would i avoid it in the future I've become very good at identifying and avoiding toxic and negative people.. I just don't need their drama. In challenging /tense situations i sing the 'let it go' chorus to myself which makes me laugh and gives me a healthy outlet... then i go pound the gym to clear my head People have zillions of reasons for doing what they do, sometimes they dont even know their motivations .. I don't need closure to give forgiveness .. I put me and my headspace first " Well said. | |||
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"Do you think forgiveness is over rated or misunderstood? Can indifference, acceptance or recovery be mistaken for forgiveness?" Maybe not mistaken or misunderstood. Just understood in many ways as we saw across this post. Even though we seem to Have some clear definition, we don't all interpret it the same way.. | |||
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"We forgive most things. It has to be something exceptionally bad for us not to. If you don't forgive, then you still have negative thoughts about whatever it is that happened. You may mull it over in your mind over and over again. You may bitterness and anger, those emotions are destructive to yourself and will do you harm to your mental well being. Forgive, draw a line and move on if you can. Life is an adventure, good and bad things happen, but if you hold on to things in the past that have happened it can spoil your future. Forgive and you will find inner peace." Thank you for sharing your thoughts. It's good to put yourself first and your mental wellbeing.. rather than re live the hurt. | |||
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"Do you think forgiveness is over rated or misunderstood? Can indifference, acceptance or recovery be mistaken for forgiveness? That's what I think I was trying to say earlier. I don't actually think my stuff is forgiveness. Acceptance and recovery yes, hopefully a level of understanding too, but forgiveness maybe not. Probably more just a case of "don't fuck with me and I won't fuck with you, but I'll tell anyone the truth about what happened" " | |||
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"I go over this question a lot and for me the answer is no. There are a couple of people that I have not forgiven for their actions and I don’t think I ever will. I’m very indifferent about them. I don’t think about them. I don’t wish them harm. I just prefer not to recognise their existence. That works for me." I guess getting to that indifference tipping point took time and effort too. As much as forgiving would. Just a different pathway..? | |||
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"Do you think forgiveness is over rated or misunderstood? Can indifference, acceptance or recovery be mistaken for forgiveness? That's what I think I was trying to say earlier. I don't actually think my stuff is forgiveness. Acceptance and recovery yes, hopefully a level of understanding too, but forgiveness maybe not. Probably more just a case of "don't fuck with me and I won't fuck with you, but I'll tell anyone the truth about what happened" I'm not sure I know what forgiveness is actually. I don't think it's necessary to forgive to move forward. There are 2 people in my past I will never speak to again. What they did is to my mind unforgiveable, they have both had an effect on my life in different ways, influenced relationships personal and professional but I learned, moved on, I'm the least bitter person I know but they're both dead to me. " But you are comfortable with it, right? Maybe that's more important than forcing yourself into being that so called better person? | |||
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"I haven't read all of this thread yet (will do when I have more time) but does any of the advice here also work for forgiving yourself for things in the past? Or does the guilt stay forever? " It can do. You live with the scars, but they fade. Is my experience | |||
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"Heavy topic eh? Have you got it in you to forgive others their wrongdoings? Is forgiveness as empowering as some describe it? If someone forgave you something huge, how did it feel? I'm not sure if I want to be that "better person" more than I want to make sure my self protection is is working like a German football team. And if you dont forgive someone in a way you always hold that over them? But on the other side doesnt it hang over your mind too? Or maybe like me you just have a special cabinet of tiny mind drawers where you shove these undesirable thoughts most of the time and if they try to get out.. you give them good rationalizing talking through. Over to you. I have the capacity to forgive, that doesn't mean that things are forgotten, or that still can't remember the pain at the time. Forgiving others doesn't mean you have one up on them, and nor does it mean it hangs in my mind. Quite the opposite, when thoughts do come to my mind of past trauma or hurt, I consider why thought has come to mind and let it pass by. Rationalising the situation is needed in order to forgive, conversation with person who's done wrong is always better, if able to do so, as will be difficult conversations. The times I've been forgiven for wrong doings, I've found to be quite overwhelming, I also find it harder to forgive myself than forgiving others. I don't see empathy, kindness, forgiveness as weakness either, although many seem to see it as this. " Guilt is such a clingy feeling isnt it? I like your strategy of being considerate of those thoughts but still in control of them. Thanks for your words. | |||
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"I haven't read all of this thread yet (will do when I have more time) but does any of the advice here also work for forgiving yourself for things in the past? Or does the guilt stay forever? " Catch23 post touched on that. Hope you enjoy reading. Some powerful reflections and experiences to learn from here. Thanks everyone. | |||
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"I can forgive but I never forget. I've been known to just cut people off and never see them again This
To forgive is with intention of reconnecting. Depending on who/what they done, it's just a case of goodbye have a nice life without me!"See.. I'm not sold on reconnecting idea. Is that necessity? | |||
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"Some things are unforgivable. It doesn't mean you need to let the actions or person consume your mind or life. It just means that you acknowledge that for you forgiveness is not possible and you get on with your life without that person affecting it further. I can't forgive or forget. It's been nearly 2 years and it's always just below the surface. On the outside I smile and I'm friendly. My insides are ripped apart but they don't need to know that. "Ouch. Do you believe you will be able to heal eventually? | |||
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"I’ll forgive once but after that I don’t forgive or forget. They cease to exist for me. " You know how to keep yourself safe. It's a good thing. You are not richer with them in your life. | |||
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"https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ Forgive me.. I had to do it!" I like music. All is good. | |||
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"https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ Forgive me.. I had to do it! I like music. All is good. "Haha, thanks  | |||
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"i cut people out of my life if i feel they are taking the piss. people rarely deserve second chance and you'll look a fool for giving them that. its them that need to modify behaviour not you" Last line is definitely something I relate to. Making things right..I dont need to grant you forgiveness based on your intentions only. Actions speak more. | |||
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"I think forgiveness has boundaries. I always forgive, as life’s too short to hold things over people. I don’t hate anyone nor dislike anyone. There’s a point (only you know) were you will no longer forgive." I'm about halfway through reading post.. will attempt replies in few chunks.. so not sure if anyone mentioned boundaries to forgiveness but it's such a valid point to make! | |||
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"i cut people out of my life if i feel they are taking the piss. people rarely deserve second chance and you'll look a fool for giving them that. its them that need to modify behaviour not you Last line is definitely something I relate to. Making things right..I dont need to grant you forgiveness based on your intentions only. Actions speak more. " God yes. | |||
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"It very much depends on the "what" and the "why" - I'm not one to hold grudges but I'm also not one to forget wrongdoings easily either. As someone else said, if I can get my head round why someone may have done something, or if they're able to see how what they did was wrong and adjust accordingly, then I can move on with an element of forgiveness, although I may never forget. If there is no "why" that I can accept, or they refuse to see why, in my eyes, something was so wrong then I just walk away and cut them from my life as much as I possibly can. " Explanation and remorse.. crucial elements for sure. | |||
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"This thread has confused me more than I thought. I don't think I know was forgiveness means. Isn't it a culmination of other things? A group of feelings and actions all mixed together. To me, to true forgiveness is to say you're ok with something and mean it. To be able to go back to where you were before the wrongdoing and not have it sting. Or for me maybe when I can see the intent from the person who wronged you wasn't from a malicious place? " Complicated as hell. In my head at least. That's why I brought it to your wise heads.. attention. When I read your sentence.. "true forgiveness means you are ok with something and mean it".. I realised maybe I'm not as capable of forgiving? To say I'm ok that this or that happened to me and find positive in all the mess, that's ambitious and very hmm.. altruistic for the lack of better word. Work to be done.. | |||
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"Also I think there's levels of forgiveness. Like if I understand why someone has done what they've done I can forgive the action, but I may not be able to forgive the impact it has had one me. " The big "but".. I forgive you as you admitted it was wrong but you will never realise the lasting side effects of your actions. I guess you cant teach people that.. | |||
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"I go over this question a lot and for me the answer is no. There are a couple of people that I have not forgiven for their actions and I don’t think I ever will. I’m very indifferent about them. I don’t think about them. I don’t wish them harm. I just prefer not to recognise their existence. That works for me. This for me too I think. Depends what it is but no I don’t really forgive. I just remove from my life. It doesn’t eat up at me at all really. Life’s too short for negative or nasty people in it. " Sometimes indifference hurts most. | |||
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"This thread has confused me more than I thought. I don't think I know was forgiveness means. Isn't it a culmination of other things? A group of feelings and actions all mixed together. To me, to true forgiveness is to say you're ok with something and mean it. To be able to go back to where you were before the wrongdoing and not have it sting. Or for me maybe when I can see the intent from the person who wronged you wasn't from a malicious place? "True forgiveness" to me is being able to move on from something completely and restore any balance that may have been there before - it doesn't necessarily mean forgetting the action, but accepting it happened and moving on from it to the point an element of "normality" is in place. I'm shaking my head in a confused way here. Is it? Or is that just acceptance? No grudges held, it's just "matter of fact" Maybe it's one of those multi-dimensional things that can mean different things to different people - but personally I'd say that if it had become "matter of fact" and "accepted" that an element of forgiveness was there to allow that state to happen. It's when you can't let something go, or become "matter of fact" that forgiveness hasn't or won't happen." Multidimensional forgiveness. I appreciate this concept. | |||
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"Always let go of grudges and negativity as it just breeds, it is not healthy or necessary. " Maybe the hurt is more powerful than belief they can separate themselves from it? | |||
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"Would I throw a bucket of water on them if they were on fire? Of course I would, I'm still the person I was before I knew them. " So they had no influence/impact on your core values.. thats so strong. | |||
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"Would I throw a bucket of water on them if they were on fire? Of course I would, I'm still the person I was before I knew them. So they had no influence/impact on your core values.. thats so strong. " I find it interesting the way I shift to my experiences, including people I ultimately end up having to leave behind. I do find it changes me, but my core values remain unchanged. (See also, 2020. I am changed. My values are not) | |||
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"I go over this question a lot and for me the answer is no. There are a couple of people that I have not forgiven for their actions and I don’t think I ever will. I’m very indifferent about them. I don’t think about them. I don’t wish them harm. I just prefer not to recognise their existence. That works for me. This for me too I think. Depends what it is but no I don’t really forgive. I just remove from my life. It doesn’t eat up at me at all really. Life’s too short for negative or nasty people in it. Sometimes indifference hurts most. " I agree. Some things I can never forgive because they’re so wrong on many levels. But they no longer have any impact on my daily life. | |||
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"I haven't read all of this thread yet (will do when I have more time) but does any of the advice here also work for forgiving yourself for things in the past? Or does the guilt stay forever? " You should forgive yourself - we all make mistakes, we sometimes do stupid things... Repeatedly ruminating doesn't repair or fix the situation. What happened, happened. Its important to look yourself in the mirror and see what you can learn from the situation to avoid repeating in the future.. But rumination doesn't help anyone. Be kind to yourself.. Forgive yourself. Understand your part amd motivation... Whst would you do differently in future.. That is how we achieve personal growth Its hard to be kind to yourself, so. Imagine you are giving a friend advice.. Now imagine you are the friend receiving the advice | |||
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"Someone lying to get what they want always hits hard, it breaks us out of the belief that “in general the world isn’t full of bad people”. Our minds are pre-programmed to remember the bad things in an effort to avoid them in the future, it is the self-preservation gene, strangely it tends to tarnish all of the good things (which hide away at the backs of our minds and are recalled only in emotionally turbulent times, again helping us to stay alive when hope is lost) You cannot hope to change the way people treat you unless you first and foremost change the way you treat yourself, you can alter the way your mind processes disappointment by drawing forward the positive things that have happened to you. Using these positive experiences to grow in confidence and, with that heightened confidence, make better, more appealing decisions. Note I am NOT victim blaming, but life, with its ups and downs teaches us, changes us, the longer you live, the more sure of your decisions you should become, listen to that inner voice, take things slower, read the signs, and if in doubt test your doubts. You may forgive, but do not forget, that will unlearn (in your mind) the circumstances and conditions that led to the hurt. " I'm glad you mentioned doubts. I had a teacher who used to say only stupid people have no doubts. We need to keep Asking, keep finding what works for us on this learning journey. And yes.. age comes with that blessing.. feeling assured who you want to surround yourself with. Because as you said.. you cannot change others. | |||
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